SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how some of these budgets are getting as high. Like Secret Invasion, that Marvel show that didn't even look very good. People are saying it costs over $200 million to make. It's getting crazy. I mean, that's the number one thing. All of these budgets need to come down.

SPEAKER_03: You can't make that much on these kinds of projects.

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SPEAKER_07: All right, everybody. Welcome back to This Week in Startups. It's been a while, but Lon Harris is back. We're doing This Week in Streaming again.

SPEAKER_09: There's so much going on in the streaming world. And you know what? Always we talk about the technology behind this. We talk about the media. We've really widened the discussion out to talk about technology in relation to entertainment.

SPEAKER_10: So consider this your entertainment, technology, media, uh, episode. All together.

SPEAKER_13: All together. And then also at the end of the show, Lon and I tend to, uh, trade recommendations.

SPEAKER_07: And, you know, everybody's always looking for a good show. So at the end of the show, we'll trade some recommendations. But let's get right into it. Uh, I know Apple has, uh, I think done a really great job in terms of building content. I thought this was going to be a disaster for them, but it seems like they've done a pretty good job and there's rumors. They're going to buy Disney. That rumor has been out there since, you know, Steve jobs sold Pixar. Uh, and now with, ah, you're back, there's renewed focus on maybe ESPN getting spun out and the NFL NBA, maybe Apple investing in it and it becoming a standalone company and who knows with Lena Khan in charge, they're going to fight every sale.

SPEAKER_16: But I just want to ask you up front before we get into Apple in detail, what would that look like if Apple to you owned Disney? Would that be good for the creative community? Would that be good for consumers? Would that be bad? Have you given it thought of a company like Apple owning a company with the IP of Disney?

SPEAKER_18: I mean, what we've seen is fewer players when these companies consolidate, it doesn't, it doesn't usually work out the best for those of us, uh, like viewers and fans. I mean, if you look at Warner brothers discovery, being the most recent example, you see a lot of layoffs when these groups combined, you see a lot of the new company deciding it doesn't really need to focus on things that the old company was focusing on so cartoon network kind of gets shelved and all of these things, bat girl, is it going to come out anymore? And so I, I think there would probably be more stuff like that having said that, um, I think Apple has been doing a really good job in terms of curating its streaming content.

SPEAKER_00: There's, there's not as much content that goes out on Apple TV plus as most of these other big platforms, but the quality level, the consistency level has been a lot higher.

SPEAKER_25: So what do you attribute that to, what do you attribute Apple being good at this? Why are they good at it is because they don't care about making money. They just, where they just have a good, uh, philosophical approach to making quality products. What do you think?

SPEAKER_29: I think it's that I think, I think Apple's approach to tech, to hardware, to everything has always kind of mirrored old school Hollywood's approach where it's a focus.

SPEAKER_18: It's a focus on quality, it's a focus on individual products, and it's a holistic kind of thinking, not just thinking about here's the specs, here's the specs, here's how we're going to promote it. Here's what celebrities are going to be in, in the ad. Here's how the keynote's going to sound. It's looking at it from all these angles. It's thinking about it in terms of the branding, in terms of the marketing, all that's baked in from the very beginning. And I think that is also a good way to approach films and TV shows and that kind of content, taking this very specific, very hands-on approach, really thinking about it. Right. Thoughtful and long-term that they're coming in, they're not going to make like, let's make one season of Foundation, this big epic Isaac Asimov show. We'll make eight episodes and then see where we are. They came in and said like, we're going to dedicate ourselves to this for three, four seasons. We're going to give David Goyer a really long time to figure this out, which is the old Hollywood approach and it's working.

SPEAKER_25: You have an orateur. You had somebody, like the kid stays in the picture, Bob Evans, and you put an orateur in there who knew what art was and had a point of view, and then you see where they take it.

SPEAKER_39: Right. And the same thing with the Pixar guy who got ousted, but yeah, and yeah, and, uh, yeah, and foundation season one, it didn't necessarily strike a core. People didn't really discover it.

SPEAKER_18: It was one of those, like, they didn't spend as much as Amazon spent. They only spent 60 million on that first season instead of 120 plus million. Got it.

SPEAKER_33: But by season two, starting to get some critical acclaim. I saw more people talk about it this year. I did.

SPEAKER_41: I forgot that it was there. My wife wanted to watch it. It was another one of these, uh, streaming, uh, couples issue where she wanted to watch it.

SPEAKER_09: I'm on a plane. I watched the first episode. I'm like, this is really interesting. It's terrific. And then I have to stop myself, you know, and this is the problem.

SPEAKER_44: See, you're lucky because you're single. I think I don't know if you're still single ladies, you might be a lawn might be available. Swipe, right? Uh, in Raya, if you see him there, but, uh, if you want a really great, uh, uh, sweet, sincere, hardworking guy, as your lawn Harris, ladies. You're too, uh, you're too kind well, you know, if you want, I mean, also a guy might take you to see a really intellectual movie and, uh, I just want to, you know, uh, remind me, uh, past lives.

SPEAKER_07: And it's going to be one of my recommendations at the end, but I want to talk about past lives. I haven't actually seen that yet.

SPEAKER_50: I gotta, I gotta get around to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: Okay, so here, this is super timely because you and I are both, both, I would say Marty Scorsese is in both of our top three to five directors.

SPEAKER_52: Oh yeah, I already have my tickets for this one. I'm going on Thursday.

SPEAKER_53: Uh, yeah, I'm going to be traveling internationally, so I won't be able to see it, but I cannot wait to see Killers of the Flower Moon, Martin Scorsese, uh, Scorsese, Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, uh, the kid from Breaking Bad.

David Friedberg: Uh, Jesse Flemons, Lily Gladstone, big cast, big cast, big cast, and, um, this is supposedly, um, a great film.

SPEAKER_00: Very critically acclaimed, very, very positive.

SPEAKER_61: Yeah. Uh, I'm excited. I'm excited to see a face, a real history, like a fascinating true story. I think most people don't know, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_65: And I hear it's a little violent, which, you know, sometimes happens in his films, but, um, I hear a very important film as well. There's a little bit of, uh, you know, uh, uh, a little bit of importance to the film, I think, to some folks.

SPEAKER_07: And it's something that, you know, we'll make people discuss, but would that film have been made by anybody other than Apple? And then how do you think Apple looks at backing? Cause this was backed by Apple, correct? Yes. And so it's in theaters first and then it goes to Apple.

SPEAKER_18: Apple's doing this strategy where they're, they're opening the films theatrically for a few weeks.

SPEAKER_00: And then like a month later, they'll come to TV plus and the, the old school, like in the early days of streaming, there was this zero sum kind of approach. Like, well, wherever the movie goes first, that's where everybody's going to watch it.

SPEAKER_18: And then it's useless on every other platform. I think the, I think bootlegging was very at the top of everybody's mind. They were like, just like piracy, if the movie gets pirated, then nobody cares when we bring it out officially. And they were, they, there was a lot of fear about that. And what we've now seen is I don't really think that's true. In fact, the more places something is available, the more heat and buzz it can build up. We've seen this happen over and over again. We're actually opening in theaters makes people want to see a movie more when it comes out and streaming. Yes, it increases the value because the, the movie, the theatrical run was a pro was marketing for when the movie pops up on streaming.

SPEAKER_00: And who still goes to movie theaters, who still goes to movie theaters on like, like younger people, hardcore fans, like a fish and others. Right.

SPEAKER_25: And, and, and we, we know that they are vocal in their group chats.

SPEAKER_07: They're vocal on social media. They're the ones like you and I, who their friends come to and say, what should I watch next?

SPEAKER_18: It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's exactly what we were talking about. Like it's buzz, it's heat, it's, it's now it's in the discourse and people are talking about it. And the more people are talking about something, the more people want to see it. And that's just so true that that outweighs any kind of platform exclusivity, at least from what we've seen.

SPEAKER_82: So this is the anti-Netflix approach, to be clear.

SPEAKER_18: Right. It, it, it's the anti-everybody approach. It's, it's all of that stuff about only, you can only see this on Peacock. It's only on Netflix. That, that ended up being not, there's a, one great example. Uh, so HBO, Warner Brothers Discovery, a few months ago, Zaslav made a ton more enemies. He, he infamously announced. General Zaslav. He infamously announced, we're going to, we're going to keep HBO shows on max, but we're also going to start licensing them out to other platforms. And people at HBO were very upset.

SPEAKER_39: They were like, this is the whole thing. We can't let HBO, that's our, that's our bread and butter. That's our life foundation. We can't let HBO shows be viewable anywhere. It's not TV. It's HBO. That was the whole thing. And what ended up happening, ballers and insecure.

SPEAKER_18: They're now on Netflix. You can go watch those on Netflix. And more people went back and started streaming them on max. After they popped up on a sense.

SPEAKER_16: So Netflix is marketing. HBO max.

SPEAKER_18: Right. People saw ballers on Netflix, started tweeting about going back and watching ballers. And then people who had max were like, Hey, you know what?

SPEAKER_39: I'm going to watch ballers. And so it spiked on both platforms. We saw as well with suits. Suits had always been available on Netflix, but when it popped up on peacock as well, and more people started watching it. Yes.

SPEAKER_89: Everybody's going crazy for suits. Isn't that show off the air?

SPEAKER_29: And it's been, that's a 10 year old USA network legal drama. When it was on TV, nobody cared.

SPEAKER_18: So that one, there's a, there's a second issue, which is Meghan Markle. Meghan Markle was just a TV star when suits was first on TV. Now Meghan Markle is royalty and much more famous.

SPEAKER_00: And so people are curious to go back, but I don't think you can entirely attribute it to that.

SPEAKER_39: I think people just didn't know about suits and then they discovered it because it was readily available.

SPEAKER_07: What I love about Apple's approach to Apple TV plus is I think that they don't care on the margins if this makes any money or not. They care if it's incredibly high quality and it, you know, speaks to their audience. Apple's revenue, um, is in 2022 was five times greater than the revenue of the entire film industry. Apple revenue last year, $394 billion total global film industry, revenue, global, global with a G 77 billion Apple generated 394 billion in revenue on about a hundred billion in profits.

SPEAKER_44: In other words, the profits at Apple are greater than the sum of the global film. And you're not, you know, that includes Bollywood that includes China. That includes all that, um, if, um, Apple does spend a billion dollars on these theatrical releases, et cetera, that's about 1% of its annual profits, 25 basis points of its annual revenue. That is a no brainer for them to do even two or 3%. If it brings the halo effect and keep people on their devices.

SPEAKER_16: Like I message does. And now Apple TV is included with every phone or is that a, do you have to pay for it?

SPEAKER_00: Cause I pay for, I believe you get like six months free every time you buy a new Apple hardware item. So if I get an iPhone this year, I get the next three or six months free.

SPEAKER_18: And then I, I might have to start paying my five or $6 a month. But I think at that point, they, they, I have a bundle.

SPEAKER_07: I don't know what's called apple one or whatever the bundle is, I think it is called apple one. I have apple one because now I have three daughters, as you know, three wonderful daughters. And then I have my wife, I just did it for storage so that all their devices, I could share the storage on it. But then it was like, oh, you could have news and arcade and apple plus and music.

SPEAKER_100: Arcade is a good one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: And arcade is a great one for the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_44: Cause it has non ad non mana begging for money games, which is great for a parent. Also news is kind of nice to have on the margins and music is delightful to have.

SPEAKER_07: Um, and obviously, you know, apple TV, and then we buy some new device, but I don't know if they credit you for it.

SPEAKER_39: I don't care, but apple should make it do. I think cause you're, you're all of those payments are happening on your apple ID.

SPEAKER_18: It's all one account. So I think that, yeah, they just give you, if you're paying for it, you just get three months of it for free.

SPEAKER_00: And if you weren't paying for it, you can use your apple ID to log in for three months or however long the period.

SPEAKER_104: It would be great if they just made it.

SPEAKER_07: So any apple device, they know it's an apple hardware device. Even if you got it, a hand-me-down could just get into apple TV plus for X number of hours per year.

SPEAKER_00: You just got like a certain amount of research already playing around with that. Cause they're, they've got this like major league soccer pass and they're thinking about doing more sports. Like formula one is a big one right now. There's a big, maybe apple's going to jump in in 2025 and grab those F one rights.

SPEAKER_18: And so those, they're going to make some of the content free for everybody. And then some of it behind the paywall.

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SPEAKER_104: Talk to me about the budget for killers. I'm just curious, like what this film would have cost if Apple wasn't doing it.

SPEAKER_44: And if Apple wasn't in market, who would have paid this? I mean, is this higher than you think?

SPEAKER_18: Yeah, I think Scorsese would have found, I doubt anybody's going to kick Scorsese to the curb and say, we're not interested just because his movies are, you're all you're automatically in the award season, talk in festival discussions, just because of his name. Uh, it's the budget. I think if he wasn't working with a prestige player, like Netflix or Apple, he might have to make more concessions in terms of the budget.

SPEAKER_00: Like the Irishman famously got pushed way over budget because of all the digital de-aging stuff they were doing on De Niro and all those scenes that adds up over the course of a three plus hour movie. This one, you know, it's period, a lot of location work.

SPEAKER_18: You gotta, you know, DiCaprio alone is 25 million right off the top. And then he's getting the chunk of the back end too. So yeah, you know, these, these costs add up. And I definitely think that if he was making a more conventional studio movie, he'd have to probably think about those margins more than he does.

SPEAKER_111: He could just call Tim cook and say, Hey, I need 20 more million.

SPEAKER_104: I mean, Wolf of wall street, just by comparison, a hundred million in 2013, which is about 130 million in today's dollars a decade later.

SPEAKER_53: And he, he did the Irishman with Netflix last time and that had the de-aging and everything. So that is interesting.

SPEAKER_07: He, he used the Singapore, I think it was a Singaporean, that very famous, uh, brouhaha where the Singaporean wealth sovereign wealth fund backed Wolf of wall street, but it might have stolen money or something.

SPEAKER_133: Yes, that's why DiCaprio had to like, uh, yeah, he testified at that, at that trial, at that celebrity.

SPEAKER_53: Irishman, 159 million. So if you look at that, 130 and, um, you know, today's dollars, 160, and now I think 250 with killer, killers of the flower moon probably costs.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are also coming out of an era where those budgets got massively inflated. I, I, I don't, I don't even know how some of these budgets are getting as high, like secret invasion, that, that Marvel show that didn't even look very good. People are saying it costs over 200 million to make, like, it's, it's getting crazy. I mean, that that's the number one thing. All of these budgets need to come down and you can't make that much on these, these kinds of projects.

SPEAKER_03: You need to bring the budget somewhere down. And it was the Malaysian.

SPEAKER_139: Sorry. It was Malaysian. So Malaysian, right. The Malaysian, Singaporeans would have never fallen for the Singaporeans got a pretty serious.

SPEAKER_07: No, I'm dead serious. Singapore is a very hardcore, uh, country when it comes to capital allocation.

SPEAKER_65: I think that they have a very sophisticated group. They probably wouldn't have, uh, gotten scammed. Um, but apparently the Malaysians did.

SPEAKER_07: So Netflix is not doing this with their movies.

SPEAKER_18: They want everybody to get right to the, you know, Ted Sarandos very specifically says, said, like, we don't want people to watch our movies on, in theaters. We want them to watch it on Netflix. So they're, if they're opening things in theaters at all, it's like, it's a stunt or it's just to get attention or it's for an award qualifying run. They don't, they don't want people to pay and go see movies conventionally in theaters. In fact, if you think about it, Ted Sarandos didn't say this out loud, but if you think about it, it benefits Netflix if movie theaters go out of business. Like, whereas a lot of these legacy entertainment companies, your, your Disney's, your Sony's, you, they Warner brothers discovery, they need movie theaters. AMC theaters is a vital link between them and their audience. But if you're Apple, if you're net, especially if you're Netflix, if you're Amazon, it benefits you if those movie theaters go away.

SPEAKER_10: So the trends of people wanting to watch it on their phone, wanting to watch it on their iPad, wanting to watch it on their flat panel, which are now it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_86: Every time I buy a flat panel TV, I have like this cognitive dissonance because I'm like,

SPEAKER_153: I paid $2,000 for that previous TV. And now I'm paying $800 for one. That's 10 times better than twice as good as the last one.

SPEAKER_09: I feel like an idiot. Now I got to throw away. It went from throwing away or gifting a $4,000 TV to a 2000 to a thousand.

SPEAKER_81: And now you replace it. And you're like, yeah, you can replace it for 800 with something much better.

SPEAKER_07: And I'm just like, ah, I just, I hate the, um, consumption trend of it, but I love the fact that it's so cheap to have something epic.

David Friedberg: Now, I don't even know if you could spend $5,000 on a flat panel TV.

SPEAKER_00: Now I think you need to get into those like foldable 8k, like they're still at CES every year. You could go see the big new TVs, but I think we've already reached the point where it's about as good as your eyeballs can see.

SPEAKER_163: Like we're, we're at a point of clarity and brightness where I don't know how much better it can even get ask you a question.

SPEAKER_07: You and I have been talking about the sequel nonsense and how literally like the last couple of sequel things are just not either not worth watching or the audience is burned out on it. They've obviously gotten burned out on the Marvel series. They did too many.

SPEAKER_18: There's still interest. It's just, it doesn't have that. Oh, I got to see this opening weekend in the theater. We've trained people like, look, if you hang out Disney plus all those Marvel movies are going to end up there eventually, maybe you could wait to see a blue beetle flash.

SPEAKER_09: Everything is coming up. Like not even covering their budgets now transformers didn't do that.

SPEAKER_00: Well, this year, Indiana Jones was a disappointment. That mission impossible movie, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_16: But then here we go. So mission impossible. Uh, and then let's put those all on the side. And then we look at something like, um, Barbie, which is based on IP, but it's the first time they've ever done that.

SPEAKER_09: So I consider it kind of new ish, I guess. And then I was, I'm, if you think about that, the summer.

SPEAKER_39: Yeah. They had to sell people on Barbie.

SPEAKER_18: People know the doll, but it wasn't like a sequel to a big movie that they were introducing this whole world.

SPEAKER_176: So I, I, I do think that counts as something different than the franchise model they've been going with.

SPEAKER_177: So my question to you, we're watching Apple, uh, they're going full auteur.

SPEAKER_65: They got, uh, killers of the flower moon. And then what I'm really looking forward to, I know one of your favorite directors is my

SPEAKER_14: favorite director, really Scott. I think it's my favorite director of all time.

SPEAKER_163: I love their strategy here. I think their strategy is fascinating.

SPEAKER_14: They're doing Napoleon, right?

SPEAKER_00: In November, we're going to get the two and a half hour theatrical Napoleon cut. It is going to go on Apple TV plus probably December.

SPEAKER_18: They haven't announced a release date yet, but probably December, but that they're getting the four hour director's cut. They're going to get both versions. So you will be able to watch the theatrical cut on Apple, but Ridley Scott's also making a four hour director's cut that will be exclusive to TV plus that's genius. So now you get people seeing it twice. Cause people are going to want to go to the theater to see it on the big screen, the

SPEAKER_33: theatrical cut, but then you got to watch it again. Cause you want to see the full four hour version.

SPEAKER_181: Hmm.

SPEAKER_104: Interestingly. Yeah. If you remember Ridley Scott did that director's cut of kingdom of heaven and people say it was

SPEAKER_65: amazing. It is. It's much better. I'm going to watch that, that have, you know, I never saw that one. It's going to kind of slip by me, um, I'm going to watch it. The director's cut is I have a movie theater in my ski house. So this is the great thrill of my life to be a kid from Brooklyn who has a movie. I got a proper movie theater. It's pretty nice.

SPEAKER_136: Uh, like in the Snyder cut, I thought was really good. Um, you know, for an imperfect film. I like that too.

SPEAKER_07: So this is great. I mean, I, I love the fact that the director's cut is baked in. We're baking in the director's cut. That is a power move. Yeah. The superpower move. And I didn't get to see Oppenheimer in the theaters. I, cause it was literally every time I went to buy, to buy tickets to the 70

SPEAKER_65: millimeter, it was sold out. Now I, I can watch it on streaming, I guess, but I'm kind of feel like an idiot watching it on streaming.

SPEAKER_18: I mean, I feel like that's one of those things where what we're seeing is it's

SPEAKER_00: harder for Hollywood to release, you know, 18 movies at a time that people want to go see, fill up all of these multiplexes. So I think a smarter thing to do, and it's already happening to some extent, some

SPEAKER_18: of these multiplexes use some of the screens for new stuff and then use other screens for like, well, let's bring back Oppenheimer in IMAX for a few weeks or like, yeah, that's what I want the back to the future trilogy, or, you know, it's Halloween. So we're going to show scream movies or saw or whatever, like, and I think that's

SPEAKER_00: what people want to, is make it event ties it more. So it's like, not necessarily only things that opened this weekend in theaters, but it's like things I want to go see with my friends.

SPEAKER_198: Who did Barbie Warner Bros. So Zaslav did Barbie. It was originally going to be Amy Schumer. He inherited. She dropped out.

SPEAKER_52: I didn't, Zaslav didn't green light Barbie himself. He inherited the prize.

SPEAKER_115: But that did, the budget on that was 140. It did $1.4 billion.

SPEAKER_18: So I mean, a lot of the credit there, a lot of the credit there has to go to, to Margot Robbie.

SPEAKER_00: She was very behind this project and was, was telling them like, here's how to do it. I have a vision. She's got her own production company, Lucky Chap that produced it. And like, so she was really the driving force of like going into Warner Brothers. Like this could make a billion dollars. You got to put muscle behind this.

SPEAKER_204: And she was the one who had the vision. I think before a lot of other people.

SPEAKER_206: She's being on the left of Wall Street. Yeah. Well done. And the budget for Oppenheimer is only a hundred million. Uh, and it did a bill.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, uh, uh, a very thoughtful, historical three hour biopic doing that kind of money is like, we haven't seen stuff.

SPEAKER_208: May I ask you a, a, a leading question, please, if Oppenheimer and Barbie have shown this, that

SPEAKER_07: original IP done well with our tours, uh, can win the day.

SPEAKER_16: Why isn't Disney and other folks getting the memo on this? Why have they not gotten the memo to do more original IP instead of doing toy story seven? Give us something new.

SPEAKER_18: It's, it's always, you know, are they going to take the right lesson from their successes is always the question. And so I think, I think there, there are a lot of wrong lessons. I think you could take one is we got to like, come up with viral memes of two movies opening the same weekend. You already saw that.

SPEAKER_00: They were trying to figure out what two movies can we open at the same time against each other.

SPEAKER_214: Right. But that's a one time, that's a one time marketing experience. That's not going to happen over and over again.

SPEAKER_00: Right. And that's not something studios didn't create that the public created that you can't, you can't force that to happen. It sort of has to happen organically. The other thing is, of course, Mattel and Hasbro are now fast tracking a hundred toy based

SPEAKER_18: movies each. So we're going to get the, the Barney, the dinosaur movie, the stretch Armstrong movie, the hot wheels movie. And again, I, I don't necessarily think that's going to work either. I, I agree with you. The right lesson would be, you got to find interesting projects from notable filmmakers, put a lot of marketing muscle behind them and come up with creative ways to make people feel like this is something I got to see opening weekend with my friends. This is a social experience that I want to be part of with this crowd. Do you remember last year when that Minions movie came out and all the kids, did that ever

SPEAKER_219: again, was that organic or non-organic, did we ever get the, the gentle minions meme and

SPEAKER_160: just kids on Tik Tok were like, you know, what would be funny when then you had the

SPEAKER_126: Megan dance, the Megan, which was actually like, as far, I'm not into the horror genre,

SPEAKER_225: but I am into the AI genre and I liked Megan. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_18: Oh, I liked Megan too. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about that, like just before the show, if you can come up with a dance like Wednesday, that Netflix show had that viral dance as well. And then became one of Netflix's biggest shows of all time. My daughters were doing it. Yeah. If you, exact, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: If you could come up with something like that, where, or there was that, that, uh, Peaches song from the super Mario movie that all the kids went crazy for, if you can come up with

SPEAKER_18: something like that, that sticks in people's heads and grabs their attention on X or Facebook or Tik Tok or Twitch or wherever they're hanging out. That's how you make a hit movie. The, the, the, the, the idea that part eight or part 12, or it's based on this thing. You remember we're, we're sort of that era is done and now you've got to figure out how

SPEAKER_00: to event ties everything. How to, how do we make this, the Taylor Swift errors tour of this genre?

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SPEAKER_07: Tell me about what's going on with the strikes. The, the writer strike ended. They seem to have gotten some good concessions. Yeah. AI became a lot bigger of a story in that than I think people anticipated. I think with good reason, because AI is great. Already in year zero here for ideation, it's not going to replace a human. That's obvious.

SPEAKER_243: Yeah. They really, it's great for ideation. It's great for spitballing. You would agree.

SPEAKER_39: I mean, look, I, I don't, I don't personally love it because I think so many of its ideas

SPEAKER_18: are derivative, a little recycled, feel a little derivative. And the whole idea in brainstorming is you want to go as far outside the box, not deep

SPEAKER_00: inside the box. But listen, lots of people have lots of different ways of working and far be it for me to tell another writer, I do know a lot of writers who do enjoy brainstorming with AI. And I don't want to say it's, it's bad or you shouldn't do it. Like more, more power to them. Uh, but right. So I think they, they really kind of kicked the can down the road on the, the most complex issues that the thing that we agreed on is AI can't write a script and we can't hire a writer to adapt an idea that AI came up with. Like ideas have to originate with human writers.

SPEAKER_18: Yeah. But the really difficult stuff like training, like, is it okay to train an AI app on somebody's writing? We, we kind of didn't, we're like the WGA kind of reserved the right to object to that later. Yes. But didn't object to it yet. So.

SPEAKER_25: How would you feel if, you know, a young person could come into Disney pluses app in, let's

SPEAKER_53: just pick a timeframe, you know, five years from now, 10 years from now, and I could open

SPEAKER_07: up the Disney plus app and say, I would like a story about Ashoka becoming friends with captain Marvel and it's an alternative universe. And then they go fight Thanos and Darth Vader. I don't, I don't think this is some little short video for you.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe a little short, purely visual, uh, you know, maybe a little exploration, like a fan fiction type thing, like a, like a, like a little showcase demo reel or something. Sure, but do you think consumers would be interested in that?

SPEAKER_260: I'm curious.

SPEAKER_18: I think that's a, I think that's a gimmick. I don't, I don't think to me, the stuff that AI is like, like code, like when you're talking

SPEAKER_00: about, like, I need help writing this piece of code and AI can help you figure it out. It's obviously perfect for that.

SPEAKER_18: Or I was reading something about broccolini. They're using it to, to come up with the next genetic strain of broccolini that will be hardier, grow faster and in more harsh climates. Perfect. Exactly. That's exactly the perfect use case for it. Creative stuff. I think it's, it's just, it's just not a good fit. Creative stuff is what humans are very good at. That's, that's the word we should have AI do all the data entry stuff that we're bad at, or that it's hard for us to focus our minds on so that we can be freed up to be creative and to think about things outside the box in a way that AI.

SPEAKER_07: Yeah. So that's what I think is my point about this, uh, choose your own adventure type experience. So imagine you watched the Obi-Wan series, which we had mixed feelings on, but generally I, I really liked that, that existed. I kind of liked it. Yeah. I liked it. Yeah. So if you could say though, Hey, I would like to see a version where, you know, the, uh, fight scene was a little more dynamic, right. Or something, or I wanted to see a little bit more of this part of the story and it filled in that part of the story or gave you some options.

SPEAKER_25: Um, that to you feels, does it feel offensive to you? I don't, do you, do you, do you, do you feel disgusted by it in some way? You seem to resist it as a humanist.

SPEAKER_269: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm pigeonholing you as a humanist.

SPEAKER_39: I wouldn't say I'm disgusted by it, but I do. I do think that not, no, not even a fan, but I do think that it's just, that's.

SPEAKER_00: It's all, all it's really doing is, is mashing things up is mixing things up. It's not, it's not bringing anything new to the table. So sure. If you tell stable diffusion, I want to see an image of a Soka next to another, you know, Optimus prime and have them fight.

SPEAKER_39: Sure. It, it, it can sort of roughly assemble that and you can see that, but your imagination can do that too.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And the, the cleverness that a writer would add or that a director would add or that a creative person would add. Sure.

SPEAKER_18: They're the ones who are going to have, because a computer doesn't, it knows what Optimus prime looks like because we've trained it.

SPEAKER_00: We've shown it a hundred pictures of Optimus prime and said, this is Optimus prime. Then it goes, okay, I understand the term Optimus prime. It means this image, but it's, it doesn't know what makes Optimus prime cool. Like, like why is a truck that turns into a big guy with guns? Cool. Like, well, we know why that's cool because we're people and we have life experience with trucks and guns and robots. And that informs our decision that that's cool. A computer doesn't understand that all it knows is this is what it looks like.

SPEAKER_23: This is what it looks like when it. What's going on with the actors then?

SPEAKER_25: So the, the writers have saddled, they seem to be somewhat content.

SPEAKER_07: They have some sort of back ends here.

SPEAKER_280: They're going to get some data because the big thing is also they're going to get data.

SPEAKER_07: Some kind of sharing on how a Netflix show did. They're going to get some metrics, right?

SPEAKER_18: They're, they're going to get some limited metrics, but they're going to get the, the

SPEAKER_00: people who make the, the biggest Netflix shows are going to get a little, a little taste. Now they're going to get a little kickback based on the success. Which they should.

SPEAKER_44: Of course. That's in the best interest of Netflix, by the way, like for Netflix, that made all these millionaires and billionaires here in Silicon Valley to not get that.

SPEAKER_09: People will do better work and they'll invest more in their careers.

SPEAKER_269: If all of a sudden a residual check comes in like, oh, wow, I get $30,000 a year.

SPEAKER_18: Yeah, because I did this hit show. I'm going to hire you for six weeks and I'm going to give you this set amount. You're going to do a good job because you're a professional and you want to earn that amount. But if I'm like, I'm going to hire you for six weeks, you're going to get this set amount. And then you've got a shot at also getting a $75,000 check next year. If your show's a big hit, that's a big incentive. That's a big incentive.

SPEAKER_288: So yeah, like a little taste, get a tasty.

SPEAKER_00: I think that is gonna, gonna motivate people.

SPEAKER_18: And it allows more people to turn TV writing from a hobby and interest into a real career. And that's good. You want, you need the next generation of people who are going to create Netflix shows 10 years from now. And you know what?

SPEAKER_291: You have intellectuals, you have powerful people who then have the choice. I can go work at Goldman Sachs. I can work in Silicon Valley.

SPEAKER_07: Or I can work in Hollywood. And if you make Hollywood, you know, like you're going to be a monk. And you're going to be living on this like pittance and you have no chance of building any kind of wealth for your family, your future, your retirement.

SPEAKER_297: And people are just going to take the Goldman Sachs option. Or they're going to take the, you know.

SPEAKER_00: You need the next generation of Bill Lawrence's who made scrubs. And, uh, you know, you need, you need Shonda Rhimes and you need, you need Taylor Sheridan's like you need those people.

SPEAKER_18: And you need to have a path where we take the people who are getting started today and turn them into those people one day.

SPEAKER_00: And so that's really a lot of what we did, but yeah, the, the hope was after the WGA resolved big, why is Optimus Prime cool, powerful abilities, moral integrity, lots of good things, pretty good.

SPEAKER_44: I mean, I don't think any, oh, powerful abilities, deep voice, memorable quotes, protective nature, rich backstory, diverse adaptations, childhood, nostalgia. Great. And that's all the reason.

SPEAKER_07: Oh, take the ideas that make Optimus Prime cool and create entirely new character with different modality, with a different modality, but similar traits that make them resonate like Optimus character name. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. Lumen.

SPEAKER_225: Lumen. Lumen. Lumen. That's the worst name ever.

SPEAKER_133: Ethereal guardian of a cosmic library. Sure. What kid doesn't want to play with a ethereal librarian? Yeah.

SPEAKER_308: It does. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. Exactly. Way to go.

SPEAKER_34: You just ruined our childhoods.

SPEAKER_80: But no, that's a great, it's a cool example because, because they, it doesn't cool this. It's a, you can't, how do you define it? How do you teach a computer? What it is? You, you, you can't. That, that, that. Well, look at her rich backstory.

SPEAKER_198: Once immortal from a forgotten planet, luminaria's thirst for knowledge led her to the cosmic library.

SPEAKER_80: Oh, but I mean, again, like, it's just, it just heroes journey.

SPEAKER_18: Like every time you ask it for a story, Joseph Campbell's you, because of course it does. That's what it, you know, that's what it learned from. Yes. But that's not interesting. Every time. The, what's interesting is how you modify it and tweak it and make it your own.

SPEAKER_126: And you, you could, just so we know, like you can beat a dead horse.

SPEAKER_125: Okay, creating a job post and finding your qualified candidates that can be time consuming, unless you use LinkedIn jobs, they are closing in on 1 billion users.

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SPEAKER_07: So that's why I participate. You see me commenting all the time on LinkedIn and on my friends and my networks. I do that because I want to give a high five to people, my network, but also I want that purple ring to be out there so I can find the best talent and the best talents on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_63: LinkedIn.com slash twist linkedin.com slash TWIST to post your first job for free terms and conditions do apply because they're giving you something for free.

SPEAKER_322: Tell me about actors.

SPEAKER_25: What's going on with the screen actors guild known as SAG. I am a member of SAG or I was after my amazing performance in center of the world. That's right. And the film August.

SPEAKER_165: So yeah, SAG actor Jason Calacanis wants to know how he's doing. My SAG is inspired.

SPEAKER_18: Well, there was hope that after the WGA strike resolved that SAG might, might wrap up quickly. Now there's fire there. There's momentum. We want to get this finished up so we can get back to making stuff. Uh, but that that's kind of come totally derailed this week. Uh, it seems like it's mostly again about residuals and profit sharing. Uh, so the actors apparently had suggested 2% of overall revenue from these platforms go to actors. The streamers said that works out to 2.4 billion over the course of a three-year contract or 800 million per year. That was too much. The streamer said that the streamer said that the studio said that was too much. 2% is too much. They said 2% was too much. So then the act, so then SAG came back and said, okay, if revenue is the wrong basis for, for profit sharing, let's switch over to subscriber count. So you could pay a levy based on Netflix's total subscriber count or whatever your platform's total subscriber count. And at that point, Sarandos said that was a bridge too far to bring up this late in the negotiations.

SPEAKER_107: And that's what caused apparently the AMPTP to exit the negotiation, walk away from the table. This is so dumb.

SPEAKER_327: Ted Sarandos is making a stupid mistake. He's going to be the most hated guy.

SPEAKER_18: Everybody's going to go to Apple and Amazon because they're working with or it's, so the AMPTP, Carol Lombardini, the head of the AMPTP, she's working with the CEO gang of four, they're called.

SPEAKER_00: That's NBC Universal's Donna Langley, Zaslav from Warner Brothers Discovery, Sarandos from Netflix, and Iger from Disney. So they're the four CEOs. This is so dumb.

SPEAKER_25: By putting a number, a percentage number on it, it frees them. This frees them from having to keep negotiating. And 2% is a perfect place to do it. In the NBA, it's like 51% go to the players or something. That's crazy, right? Literally half of revenue goes to the players. You know what's happened in the NBA? More people want to become NBA players. NBA players spend a million dollars or two million dollars of their own money to keep themselves healthy like LeBron James does.

SPEAKER_07: And they really take their career seriously now because they know there's a $250 million, a $350 million supermax contract out here. If they did this 2%, now you've got all the actors saying, you know what?

SPEAKER_09: I'm going to show up on set and take this seriously. I'm not going to be like, I don't want to pick anybody, but like Johnny Depp, like whatever causing chaos on set, they said. Yeah. You know, whatever.

SPEAKER_330: Drinking red wine all day.

SPEAKER_34: You know, like that stuff's going to go out the window because Johnny Depp's going to be like, you know what? And Netflix has had this specific problem.

SPEAKER_18: Regé-Jean Page became a huge star in season one of Bridgerton, didn't want to come back for season two. Millie Bobby Brown today, we've got the headline and inside streaming is complaining about having to come back for one more season of Stranger Things.

SPEAKER_39: She wants to go make films. She's a huge famous actor now. But imagine if you were going to give her a chunk of the Stranger Things revenue.

SPEAKER_331: Show me the dough.

SPEAKER_332: She'd be like, let's make 10 more seasons. That's how you keep these actors on sitcoms for 10 years.

SPEAKER_213: You know who did this? Tony Stark, Iron Man.

SPEAKER_25: And he knew. Right. Exactly. He knew because his career hit the rocks. Iron Man, they marveled, didn't want to bank on him. He had to take out his own insurance and bet on himself.

SPEAKER_13: And what did he get in that last contract? It was absurd.

SPEAKER_119: It's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. For showing up for 10 minutes, like two days on set, whatever it was. And it's up for him.

SPEAKER_18: Famously, George Lucas, too, where nobody wanted to come in on him with these deals. And so he was like, all right, I'll take almost nothing.

SPEAKER_00: You don't have to pay me to direct the movie. I'll just take the merch rights. And the studio was like, are you crazy? You dumb? Who's going to buy the toys of these furry, gross creeps?

SPEAKER_44: I mean, there's one film I'm looking forward to. It's the new Joker. Joker 2 is going to be. Folly Adoo. Cannot wait for that. Joaquin Phoenix, I'll see anything he's in. And Lady Gaga. And I'll see anything Todd Phillipson. And you know what? Lady Gaga crushes it. Star is born. You know, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_339: Who isn't curious to see Joker 2? I think we're all curious to see what they've got going on there.

SPEAKER_269: That made a billion dollars on like a $75 million budget or something crazy. And it won the Golden Lion at Venice. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_25: Well, here it is. Orters. And so you got to give the Warner Brothers folks, because they also did the Batman. They did Barbie. They did the Batman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: They understand. Orters can take IP in a direction that the formulaic thing. Now, listen, Marvel did do a great job on phase one, two, and three or whatever. But would it kill Marvel to do something outside the canon with one of the characters or, you know, whatever. And not have a phase five, six, and seven. Like, would you think that was a good idea if they said, hey, we want to let somebody do something interesting with the Hulk?

SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's so hard to say. Because I do feel like we're seeing the DC movies suffer right now. Because audiences have lost that continuity sense. And so when Blue Beetle comes out, there's nothing making people feel like, oh, I need to see this because it's part of this overall story. I like it's just hanging out there on its own. And I actually thought Blue Beetle was pretty good. I watched the first 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_347: I got bored.

SPEAKER_221: It's not enough to grab people's attention totally flying blind on its own. Did they have any other DC characters in it? Did anybody show up? Or is it just him alone?

SPEAKER_00: No. I mean, there's shout outs and mentions.

SPEAKER_18: But no, it's pretty much just Blue Beetle and James Gunn has said he's going to bring that kid Jolo Maraduanias or I think I'm saying it right. That the Cobra Kai kid who plays Blue Beetle, he's going to come back in more DC movies as Jaime Reyes. But I don't I don't think the movie the movie doesn't really feel like everybody else is out. Gal Gadot. She's gone. They're saying Momoa might come back and play Lobo or a different character, but he's not Aquaman anymore.

SPEAKER_00: Or Cavill's gone, Affleck's gone, all of the Ezra Miller gone, all those people are not going to be back. The only exception is Peacemaker. So Viola Davis is going to stay on as Amanda Waller, John Cena is still Peacemaker, that whole group is sad.

SPEAKER_18: But anyway, that has definitely hurt them. So I don't think Marvel necessarily wants to throw the whole idea of continuity away. But I do think that they're kind of they're kind of pushing the brakes a little bit on it.

SPEAKER_00: Less focus on the constant releases that are all part of the one interconnected story, because it's not paying off at this point. It's hurting them more than helping. I think in some ways people have just burned time for recommendations.

SPEAKER_104: What do you got? OK, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00: Wow. I watched a lot of good stuff lately. I really liked Fall of the House of Usher, that new Netflix Mike Flanagan show.

SPEAKER_357: What is it? How is it?

SPEAKER_18: So Mike Flanagan, he's the guy who did the haunting of Pill House and haunting of Blind Manor and also Midnight Mass. He does these like horror drama kind of series. He also he's directed. He directed that film, Dr. Sleep and Oculus, a few other horror films. So his new show is it's sort of based on the Edgar Allan Poe short story, The Fall of the House of Usher, but it's really a remix. It's based on the entire collected works of Edgar Allan Poe. So there's Pit and the Pendulum stuff, Murders in the Rue Morgue, The Raven gets shout out like it's really this kind of like entire career of Edgar Allan Poe put into one story, but really great cast.

SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a mix of funny and spooky, but it's also got this kind of succession. Who's going to take over this pharmaceutical company storyline. I really enjoyed it. I think it's a fun mashup.

SPEAKER_359: I will watch that for sure.

SPEAKER_246: Styles and then I also liked there's this movie on Hulu.

SPEAKER_18: It's a little silly. It's a little bit of a one off, but it's quick. It's called The Mill with Lil Rel Howery set in a near future. This guy is a middle manager for a tech company called Mallard. And then one day he wakes up and the company has imprisoned him in this cell with this mill in the center of it.

SPEAKER_00: And they're like, this is your new employee training, 16 hours a day, you've got to work this mill, whoever rotates at the least in a day, whichever one of the employees gets killed.

SPEAKER_209: And he's just a prisoner now in this like weird cell. And it becomes like a thriller of like, how is he going to get out of there? Nice.

SPEAKER_363: I have two for you. I got two for you. That's on Hulu. That's on Hulu. The diplomat. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00: Yes. I enjoyed. This was a huge hit among, uh, like the government, like politicians and everyone in Washington was watching the diplomat.

SPEAKER_104: I like Terry Russell a lot. Um, she's fantastic in this. I will watch her do anything.

SPEAKER_07: And, uh, you know, it's like taught thriller type thing and she's amazing. And I think it's a little bit timely, um, if you like geopolitics and that kind of stuff. And then my other one I'm catching up on, but this could be, I think.

SPEAKER_303: My favorite series in a long time. Mr.

SPEAKER_371: In between, uh, which stars, a guy named Scott Ryan. Yeah. It's from Australia. It's from Australia. And I think it's Hulu.

SPEAKER_53: It's on Hulu.

SPEAKER_372: It was an FX show when it was on TV. So now it's on Hulu.

SPEAKER_53: This show, Mr. In between is kind of like Sopranos meets, um, uh, breaking bad kind of situation.

SPEAKER_07: It's about a hit man from down under who's just unflappable. And it reminds me of the shield, uh, a show I always liked.

SPEAKER_53: Um, and if actually that guy, um, who's the, who's the showrunner guy, creator of, uh, the shield.

SPEAKER_33: Oh, it's, uh, uh, what's it? Because he's the guy, yeah. He's Sean Ryan. Because he's the guy who did the night agent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: So I just started the night agent. That's a little unrealistic. I'm like two or three episodes into that, but I still like it. I love Sean Ryan. I've played poker with him a couple of times.

SPEAKER_33: That's a great example. Cause Sean Ryan is a guy who went to Netflix, but he was like, I don't like your model.

SPEAKER_18: I wanna, I'm gonna make shows for you, but I wanna do the network way of doing things. And they said, okay, so he's had writers rooms all along.

SPEAKER_00: He, he kind of convinced them to do things the old fashioned way, even before the WGA. Yeah. So I love the shield.

SPEAKER_10: That was one of my favorite 10 top 10 TV shows of all time. But this new one, the night agent, I love the actor in it. He's pretty good.

SPEAKER_126: Um, and, uh, but you know, it's a little bit, Noah, Noah Centino.

SPEAKER_18: Is it him? Oh no, this is a different guy.

SPEAKER_332: This is Gabriel Basso. Nevermind.

SPEAKER_10: It's a, it's a interesting concept. Uh, it's pretty good, but I do wanna give a shout out.

SPEAKER_104: You know, I do like indie films and, um, you know, there was this, uh, film after son.

SPEAKER_07: Oh, last year, uh, yeah, that was in 2022. Again, this a 24 is a really great or tour.

SPEAKER_139: I don't know why somebody doesn't buy a 24 that, that company seems to understand a great business model here.

SPEAKER_00: It's, it's been, it's something, no, but, um, but it's, it's one of those things. You, the, the rumors are always around, like, who's gonna, who's gonna buy a 24. Cause they're also very savvy in terms of branding and marketing. Like they've got a lot of merch that they sell. Like they've kind of made themselves a little bit of a lifestyle brand in addition to being a film studio.

SPEAKER_53: So after son and past lives, both very deeply personal films, these are dramas. They're slow, they're meaningful.

SPEAKER_07: If you can put your phone down, give yourself over to the films. They're not for most people, but for me, I like thoughtful, dramatic films.

SPEAKER_65: Um, and this one past lives, uh, is about a boy and a girl who are in school together. And then their lives separate and then their lives intertwine, uh, every 10 years or so. And there's, they're obviously like, um, in love in some very deep way, but, you know, it's

SPEAKER_07: kind of like, um, missed, um, connections, you know, the Craigslist miss connections, kind of thing, kind of like that.

SPEAKER_65: And, uh, it's so well acted and directed and paste, uh, that I just think it's a very special film and I understand this is the director's debut.

SPEAKER_18: Uh, both of these amazingly, both of the films you've mentioned are directorial debuts.

SPEAKER_379: Cause Anderson, I believe is Charlotte Wells, uh, debut as a writer director as well.

SPEAKER_07: And then people really didn't get after son, you know, this is like a coming of age kind of drama about a dad and a daughter. I w I don't want to spoil it for you.

SPEAKER_00: They're on vacation.

SPEAKER_265: So it's sort of like, yeah, this, this kind of travel log almost, but I don't want to give it.

SPEAKER_09: Yeah. We don't, can't give it in the way, but it, you know, as, as a father of daughters,

SPEAKER_07: like this, trying to connect with your child and this meaningful adolescence. And then the challenges of also being an adult and being a parent is very, very heartfelt films. So if you were a considered sensitive person, I think it's a great double feature for you to get you out of, you know, the, uh, you know, exploding transformer things are moving so fast on the screen.

SPEAKER_165: That it's just a giant fricking blur.

SPEAKER_398: Yeah.

SPEAKER_163: After sun is on, after sun is on paramount plus right now. If you have the, if you have the show time, you have to have the show time add on.

SPEAKER_139: Or just, you know, like I say, you know, like if, if it's, if it's a really good film, just pay for it on whatever service.

SPEAKER_176: It doesn't matter on past lives is on VOD. So you have to, you have to pay to rent or buy it.

SPEAKER_10: Just it's okay to pay to rent these things like 20 bucks or 30 bucks to pay or rent something. It's well worth it, folks.

SPEAKER_07: I know that we live in this disposable age, but just think if you want to have workers, make films, just, just buy it.

SPEAKER_65: It's fine. You know, you know, it's, it's, it's a pittance, you know, it's given inflation. It's like movies become such a good deal.

SPEAKER_07: Do you have any, uh, films that you actually like that are in, um, sure, you know, more, a non-obvious film, I would say, or, or an obvious.

SPEAKER_18: Well, I, uh, sure on Amazon prime right now, it just came out, uh, last week. There's one called the burial with, uh, Jamie Foxx and Tommy Lee Jones. I just watched this last night. Yeah, it's a, it's like a courtroom comedy drama based on a real case from the 1990s. Uh, Tommy Lee Jones plays the owner of a, a few funeral parlors in Southern Mississippi. Uh, and he's, it gets into a fight with a huge Canadian funeral corporation.

SPEAKER_00: And he hires, uh, this guy, Willie Gary, who is a, uh, personal injury, kind of a flashy TV, personal injury lawyer to manage his case. He was played by Jamie Foxx.

SPEAKER_39: Uh, it, it, it, it's a lot of fun. I mean, it's a little silly, but it has that throwback. Like it feels like a nineties courtroom, courtroom comedy drama that would just come out in theaters for a few weeks.

SPEAKER_408: Cause he's old.

SPEAKER_18: Tommy, you know, it's really about like he and Jamie Foxx, very different guys, but they kind of come together and become friends over the course of this trial. It's, it's, it's, they're very charming together.

SPEAKER_410: 77 years old. Wow. Tommy, 77 years old, man.

SPEAKER_411: Uh, so that one and Bill camp is the, you know, sort of fugitive.

SPEAKER_393: If you're a young person and you haven't seen the fugitive and that's, that's as good as it gets on a thriller, right?

SPEAKER_176: That's his, that's his big Oscar role right there.

SPEAKER_393: Yeah. And the fugitive yeah. Forget about men in black, no country for all men. And the fugitive is where you want to go.

SPEAKER_176: I think he's also in that amazing, uh, movie rolling thunder from the, from the seventies with William Devane. One of, uh, that's why, uh, Tarantino named his company rolling thunder pictures.

SPEAKER_10: Uh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: I, I, I, um, I, I listened to the first book of criticism Quentin Tarantino did, you know, it's good.

SPEAKER_393: And I like his podcast that he does. Um, so shout out to both of those, uh, any other, uh, Devane plays like a traumatized Vietnam vet.

SPEAKER_00: And then he comes home and bikers attack his family.

SPEAKER_319: And then he just goes in this really gruesome crusade of vengeance gets them, uh, that is one of Tarantino's big things is the gruesome revenge genre, which the sixties and seventies had this whole revenge genre.

SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, rolling thunder was part of that whole, like, like all those movies about all the guys coming back from, from Vietnam. Being just like super messed up and, uh, you know, having trouble re integrating into society. So it's from that era cutter's way.

SPEAKER_104: Another great movie from that era is the, uh, the video is archive podcast is I, I love it. Um, but he does very weird, weird movies, but he did man, him and Roger, um, which is, uh, with Roger ever, he did manhunter, which is a film.

SPEAKER_07: I like, yeah, he did a really weird thing of like, I had to like, go really seek this out. There's like a bunch of planet, the apes. It was a TV show. Yeah. And then there was, and it was terrible, but there was like a couple of interesting moments about it and I didn't even know there was a thing.

SPEAKER_423: Um, what else did he do on the first season?

SPEAKER_00: I know sometimes he does stuff on that podcast and then they screen them at the new Beverly after, which I've always been to go, I've always been to go.

SPEAKER_44: It's, it's just really good because you can see how this stuff, he did straw dogs, which is like the ultimate Sam Peckinpah revenge film.

SPEAKER_07: And that's a really difficult film to talk about in today's era.

SPEAKER_65: Um, so I, I would start there if you're gonna listen to his podcast, like listen to the straw dog ones and watch straw dogs, uh, with Dustin Hoffman, I think, um, in the lead role.

SPEAKER_10: And it really is like, that's a challenging one.

SPEAKER_104: I won't spoil anything for you, but that's a very challenging film when the, when it came out and he goes through the, what I love about what he does in this, um, video archives podcast. Is he talks about the reaction to those films at that time. Um, and he did the film star 80, which I remember when that came out, Bob Fosse did this.

SPEAKER_07: And, um, I actually watched the film star 80 based, and then listened to his criticism over.

SPEAKER_65: And then he did two episodes on it, uh, last year in November.

SPEAKER_07: And, um, you know, that was also like a really great walk down through town. So like, I think if you can listen to Brett Easton, Alice or Roger Avery and Quentin Tarantino, and then hear their takes on films, that's how I got into tar. Cause ready son Ellis didn't like tar and then everybody loved it. And he went to see it again. And he was like, you know what? On second viewing, I actually really do like this film. And I wasn't in the right headspace when I watched it the first time and he changed his opinion on it.

SPEAKER_163: I mean, that was like really interesting. Yeah. Like that, that definitely happens. Like that's happened to me several films.

SPEAKER_126: Yeah, but you have a film in mind that you change your thinking on.

SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, uh, it happens a lot with, uh, with Paul Thomas Anderson, where I'll see the movie the first time and I'm like, I don't really know, like the master is a great example.

SPEAKER_431: The master was, it came to mind immediately, which I didn't get it.

SPEAKER_163: The first time I saw it, I was like, I don't really know how I feel about that. But by the second or third time, I was like, well, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. I love this.

SPEAKER_139: It's my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson film. Really. I think every time I see there will be blood or the master, I just flip, flip my order.

SPEAKER_434: We talked about this before.

SPEAKER_00: All right, everybody, I was going to mention, yeah, one other one, uh, it's also on Showtime right now.

SPEAKER_18: If you play for Paramount plus, you got to pay for the Showtime add on, uh, the last William Friedkin film just went up. The Kane mutiny court. Oh, it's, it's a, it is purely courtroom. I mean, it is just a filmed version of that play. If you have not seen the movie, the Kane mutiny, and you don't know the story at all, it might be a little, it's a little weird at first, but really great performances. What the, one of the final screen performances Sutherland plays Queeg, who's that's the, uh, Humphrey Bogart role from the original, and then land the, one of the final performances from the late, great Lance Reddick.

SPEAKER_61: He plays the, uh, the sort of general who's overseeing the hearing, uh, you know, obviously worth watching, very interesting, Jason Clark, also really good in that one, Lewis Pullman, who was great in Top Gun Mavericks in that game.

SPEAKER_443: Mountain, Kane mutiny.

SPEAKER_00: Right, so there, the K mutiny was that World War II novel by Herman Wook, Wook, I don't know how to pronounce it, W-O-U-K.

SPEAKER_445: You have it, everybody. Thank you, Lon, and we'll see you all next time in this week's service. Bye-bye.