SPEAKER_00: Why does the scale of the death matter? Well, because you have to look at and say, are they infringing on Disney's ability to do something in the world? So let's say you and I decided we were going to create, um, an event, uh, where we had a Jedi night party. Okay, great. Happy birthday. Jake Allen is a Jedi night party. So that's the theme. Great. Star Wars theme. Everybody has a great time. Now imagine we said, wow, everybody has such a great time at this. Let's make it a permanent installation at cow hollow. We'll get a building and then we'll charge 50 bucks to come. And it's like, well, that sounds like star Wars town at Disney world. Disney world. Yeah. And so that's where the scale of something, the, the monetization

SPEAKER_06: of something comes in. This week in startups is brought to you by Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain brave. If you're building AI and search-based applications, train your models with the brave search API, get started for free at brave.com slash Jason and lemon.io need to speed up your product development without draining your budget. Hire vetted engineers from Europe at lemon.io go to lemon.io slash twist to get 15% off for the first four weeks. All right, everybody it's Monday. So it's time

SPEAKER_00: for our AI demos. This is what we do. We demo or die every Monday. And with me again, Sandeep Madra sunny. He's at Sandeep on the Twitter slash X. He's the co-founder of definitive intelligence. You can go check out definitive.io. They do all kinds of AI data analysis, public data, private data, work with a lot of big companies out there. And I'm an investor.

SPEAKER_12: Co-pilots, no hallucination, all the good stuff. All the good stuff. All the good stuff. I'm full

SPEAKER_00: disclosure. I put a little slicey poo. I'm an investor in Sunny's product and we're, we're close personal friends. We play poker every week. We hang out and we geek out. And Mondays are for geeking out.

SPEAKER_14: Let's geek out. What do you got? Let's do it. First on the agenda for today.

SPEAKER_11: Very excited about the first one because it's, we're, we're going to be, you know, we've been saying this like AI all the way down. And we've been talking about doing a little

SPEAKER_17: this week in startups AI summit. Yes. That'd be a lot of fun to do a live event where it's just

SPEAKER_11: all demos of cool stuff. Yeah. And, uh, exactly just, you know, kind of get it all going. And so I decided to use this, uh, you know, so Figma released this new thing called Figma jam and what I did here and all Figma jam. And so what you can go in here and I'll just, I'm going to kind of cut and paste here. So I'm going to say, I need a workflow for planning the upcoming this week

SPEAKER_17: in startups, AI conference. And what it'll do in Figma right there is it was going to give you everything you need to get this conference going. And, um, yeah, I just did this live right in front of you. And, uh, you can see here is like, who's there? What are the goals in this particular meeting? What's the speaker lineup, conference venue, accommodations, transportation. And so it just, it's really incredible. They can do this for any type of, you know, workflow or brainstorming or product review or anything you need. And then you can add to it. So did it miss something? Cause you've done a lot of conferences, J Cal. So did it miss something that you'd have like, as you were going to kind of sit down and do the, you know, the workflow planning for the start of the conference.

SPEAKER_14: Uh, venue, I guess venue would be under, it says venue, conference venue, conference venue right

SPEAKER_05: here. Yeah. I can zoom in. So yeah. And then, um, you would need to do the format. So the editorial format, like you have speakers, but then there's the editorial format, like, are we gonna do fireside chats? Are we gonna do demos? So what's the schedule and the lineup basically. So I see there's a speaker lineup there, but it didn't go drill down to that second thing. So I would be thinking, you know, Hey, what is the most important format for us, or is it going to be keynotes? Is it going to be panels, breakout sessions, whatever? Um, so wait, how did it do with that? The speaker?

SPEAKER_17: So we said, so we said, can you add a section to site on the editorial format? So it said, keynote speakers, panel sessions, breakout sessions. So it just, it keeps iterating with you. So I just, wow. So the first one didn't have that. And so then it kind of basically another prompt. So just

SPEAKER_14: so people who aren't, yeah, for people who are watching, you're on youtube.com slash this weekend,

SPEAKER_05: just type in this weekend startup, she'll find us on YouTube. And you can see us demoing this. Now,

SPEAKER_00: if you're on audio, you have a generate box where you type in what you're looking for. So the first prompt was, I need a workflow for planning an upcoming this weekend startups AI conference. And it gave us, uh, would you say there's a Kanban board or it's just, uh, yeah, uh, I guess Figma designs

SPEAKER_11: like, um, it's like a, like a canvas Kanban board. I let you answer or a whiteboard. It's

SPEAKER_00: kind of like a whiteboard session here. So kind of put the agenda, et cetera, but you said, can you add a section to decide the editorial format? And when you did that, it changed the speaker lineup to, uh, a more granular view of an event, which was keynote speakers, panel discussions, breakout sessions, and workshops. So this is really good work. And then on the logistics, it has accommodations, transportation, technical requirements, venue. And then it added, what's this final section on the

SPEAKER_17: right? Well, this is where it's interactive, right? So it said when in, in order in this meeting, because we're going to use this board, how are we going to decide the editorial format? And so it kind of gave us some ideas on how to, how to think through the editorial format as well, which then

SPEAKER_09: here we have live streaming as option one recorded videos, option two written summaries and interactive

SPEAKER_00: slides. So this is like a hodgepodge of ideas. It's actually kind of helpful because if you were doing your first time conference and I was a conference producer, which I've been doing for 30 years, these are the things that I would tell you, like, are you going to live stream it? Are you going to charge for the live stream? Are you going to record the videos? Because if you do an event, and you want to live stream? Well, now you've got a cohort of issues you need to deal with. Uh, can this play this is place have a stable internet connection with an Ethernet cable? Do you have a, you know, a high powered machine dedicated to that because now you need a laptop to just do that,

SPEAKER_14: you know, um, and now this isn't when we're going through this board, it's not listening to us right

SPEAKER_59: now. So this isn't, it's not listening to us, but then I did another one. I said revenue generation

SPEAKER_17: ideas and it gave us, right? Like, cause you just said that. And so, and so for those listening, I just typed that and said, we need to brainstorm monetization. So I said offer premium tickets, create sponsorships, post a virtual marketplace, yada, yada, yada, right?

SPEAKER_63: Sure. Amortizing space on the conference website. I mean, this is so, you know, think about this,

SPEAKER_05: Jake, right? Yeah. You know, if you had an event planner, what you just did, I would say is the first half of what an event planner would do. Yeah. A full 50% of what an event planner would do is they would say, here are the things you need to address. You know, here are the, here are the top

SPEAKER_09: level things, just like, you know, creating a spec. Right. And so there are worksheets, you know,

SPEAKER_68: that exist on the internet. Probably there are probably some articles about this. And then what we could say is how would you market this? Right? So you could, you could add that as a prompt, how would we market the event or how should we market the event? And then you could do, Hey, we need a budget. And so when we use the term AI all the way down, what we meant was AI will be,

SPEAKER_00: in fact, every single thing you're doing. Correct. So what would be very nice here is if while we were

SPEAKER_68: talking, Figma was listening. So we didn't have to type in the prompts, it would just be kind of another participant in the meeting. So I'll call this type of AI, uh, prompt AI prompt. I'm looking for

SPEAKER_50: is participatory AI. So this could be a blog post for me. What I mean by participatory AI is the AI

SPEAKER_14: is the guide on the side. They're participating, listening, interacting with you. So what I would

SPEAKER_05: like here is, uh, some combination of the talking mode, what we refer to in the industry as her mode from the movie, her, um, where Joaquin Phoenix is talking to his AI love interest. I would love to have an AI here that would be in collaborative mode, um, or participatory mode AI, where they were listening to our conversation saying, sorry to interrupt some deep, uh, and J Cal I've added a

SPEAKER_00: section here for marketing. And these are the top marketing concepts. So right here, you want it

SPEAKER_17: listening in, it should be listening mode. You turn it on as we're having our zoom or whatever format we're having the meeting in ideally in IRL. It's basically just pulling it all in and doing this real time. And this, this Kanban board, this Figma jam board is, is iterating in real that whiteboard.

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SPEAKER_00: And if the whiteboard right now, if I said to the whiteboard, we're not doing a live stream, it just erased the live stream and just, you know, took that out and said, you know, it's going to be 100. We already actually have a location, we're doing this at the, you know, the Microsoft or the Oracle Conference Center, and they gave it to us for free, in exchange for having a banner, and a logo on the website. And it would put that as bullet points action items. Don't forget to put this on the so we'd have a to do list. Okay, I've added to the to do list to add Oracle's, you know, message to the website and have a banner printed for this event. And I've budgeted $0 in the budget for a venue location. And do you know how many seats it's going

SPEAKER_05: to be? Oh, yeah, they can accommodate up to 250. So our max capacity is 250. Great. Do you have any

SPEAKER_00: existing? And then it would say, Well, who's going to be in the 250? How many paid tickets? How many speakers do you think? How many days? So it should be asking us questions to kind of get through this checkbox. What it's doing right now, I believe is it's indexed the world's information like Google did. It's taken some web crawler, some people out there wrote, um, how to throw a conference medium

SPEAKER_89: posts, or, or answers, or Reddit threads, or where we've even published spreadsheets or something.

SPEAKER_14: Yeah, yeah. And it's pulling all Yeah, all those all that collateral, it's scraped. And now it's

SPEAKER_00: regurgitating it back to you in real time in this format. So it's basically stealing content, liberating content, and then claiming it as its own and posting it up here for us to work with. What I would

SPEAKER_09: like it to do is the next step, make a to do list, make action items, and then actually start doing those to do items. So it's a would you like me to make a logo? So branding, we should have branding and naming. So if you if you put into figma jam, come up with some names for an AI demo day, or a showcase, and come up with a logo. I've been playing with Dolly, you probably saw me like doing all in

SPEAKER_14: the logo with hearts. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, over the weekend, literally did that in 10 seconds. Now you can't do anything. I also did one over the weekend, where I said, make me a Bulldog Jedi Knight, make me a Bulldog version of Darth Vader. Yeah. And I was trying to see if I could get chat GPT's Dolly on mobile, number one, to make the images, but number two, to make images that they did not have the

SPEAKER_00: rights to that were derivative works that were based on IP. This kind of takes us into, well, there's no way to stop this. This did it on open crawl. But there is a conference producer whose work

SPEAKER_81: this is. Yeah, I don't know if they're going to be able to find out who actually did this, Sonny.

SPEAKER_102: Like the model of who's drafting off of here.

SPEAKER_17: You got to remember, it's not the whole thing, right? Because it could be one 100 is from this website, and another 100 is from this, you know, PDF and another, because it's just pulling it, it's pulled it together from a lot of different pieces. It's not like a holistic, you know,

SPEAKER_50: people. So it's death by 1000 cuts. They've stolen a penny from 1000 people's bank accounts,

SPEAKER_70: or a million people's bank accounts. And here they are now they got 1000s of dollars,

SPEAKER_112: but nobody misses the penny. Yeah, I wouldn't say stolen because it's sort of the way we operate. It's the way we learn, right? And the way we create, we've read a bunch of books, we've had

SPEAKER_17: a bunch of experiences in real life, and then we stitch those together. And it turns into

SPEAKER_00: something new and creative for us, right? It was not plagiarism. If you've taken enough source material, that it's not a large percentage of anyone. It's a collection of learning. Can't argue with that. It's a hard thing to argue from with because it is wholesale. If you look at the end result is, you know, if I read five books on how to do a startup, and I did a startup, would I be stealing that IP? No. Yeah. And the intent of that person was to have you use it. Now, if I made a bunch of templates on the web, and I said, you know, these are my templates, I make money from advertising on this. And these are my conference templates and my PDFs on how to do it. And I sell an advanced one. And, you know, I put a little bit out there to get people to the events. But now if you ingested that, you now have created a derivative work based on my work. And if this all came from, you know, a smaller subsection of people, you know, that it would feel like stealing. So this is where fairness comes into play. Does this feel fair or unfair? If you're the

SPEAKER_05: conference producer who made a conference website to try to attract people to your conference website, and the AI is putting it out there, this feels profoundly unfair. Just like you rolled your eyes,

SPEAKER_17: you don't think so? Yeah, because if it only had one piece of information, then, you know, to your point, like you could feel like that's plagiarism. But, you know, because these things have access to, you know, most of the internet. And let's, you know, and I think in your in your David, the one interview from adapt, he also called out that they licensed a bunch of material. So what

SPEAKER_112: if they went to a bunch of folks and paid them and said, I feel great about it. If you're licensing

SPEAKER_123: it, and the person gets 500 bucks a year, you know, to create a derivative work, I feel great

SPEAKER_14: about it. Okay, so this is what I did this weekend. So check this out. Oh, and these are beautiful images. And so I said, make a Jedi bulldog, and it made it. Yeah, great. Now, the next image I did.

SPEAKER_00: So now look at this interaction. This is very interesting. I want to get your response to the floor. I said, now make a cat version of Darth Raider. Dolly said to me, I'm unable to generate images based on your request due to our content policy. No link to it, no explanation of what the content policy is. If you have any other ideas or concepts you'd like to explore for free, I said, make me a sith lore cat. Boom. Yeah, here's the image of a sith lore cat. So it must have in its

SPEAKER_14: database that Darth Vader is protected IP. Correct. Don't let people make Darth Vader, just like it

SPEAKER_00: doesn't do real images. Like if I said, make something based on Jason Calacatus as a Jedi, it won't do it. Yeah, but it would make that then I asked it, check this one out. The next thing I asked chat GPT to do was I moved over from Dolly to chat GPT. And in that same thread, I asked it to make me a sequel to The Shining. That's my very next tweet. And it did an amazing job. I said,

SPEAKER_123: write a short story about the characters from The Shining. The Shining. And it was like, certainly, here's a short story featuring the characters from The Shining. So it knows The Shining is protected IP,

SPEAKER_00: and it just created derivative work on this. After the harrowing events at the Overlook Hotel, Wendy and Danny Torrance saw a new beginning. They moved to a small peaceful town in Maine,

SPEAKER_76: far from the nightmarish memories of the past. The townspeople were warm and welcoming, intrigued by the newcomers, but respectful of their privacy. And I was like, wait a second,

SPEAKER_00: where does the, this collection land on, you know, in our debate, me being very sensitive to IP and

SPEAKER_09: creators, in this case, Stephen King, George Lucas, Disney, and their IP. And in your case,

SPEAKER_00: hey, it's learning from the internet, you know, well, there's, there's the fact that this is protected IP, like explicitly protected high profile IP that has proven value in the world change

SPEAKER_17: your position. What's your position on this? Yeah, so these to me are distinctly different than the example we were putting in figma jam, right? Because the, the process or method or the template to create a conference, there could be, it's hard to nail it down to one particular one, but a bulldog Jedi Knight is very clearly, uh, you know, there's no other Jedi Knights out there because of the copyright and there's no other Darth Vader's and there's not even other Sith Lords. Right. And so yes, I feel like that, you know, I don't think I'm kind of having two different stances, but I think in that case, it does feel like a violation. Now, what I recall, and I want you to chime in here, because I'm not really a copyrights, uh, you know, person, I don't really understand it well. And I think this is allowed in music as well. Someone is allowed to recreate something, uh, like you can do a drawing of a Jedi bulldog, uh, Jedi Knight bulldog. Non-commercial use. Non-commercial use.

SPEAKER_00: You can. There's a, there's a fair use doctrine. Yeah. And so if you do things that are non-commercial, now chat GPT is a commercial product. I'm paying 20 bucks for it. So chat GPT is making $240 a year

SPEAKER_05: to allow me to make Disney characters or Disney inspire characters. So that's where we get in the rub here. Now, if you have an open source project that nobody really is responsible for, it's like, who do you sue? There's no target there. So that falls out of it. Now, IP and fair use and the laws here in the United States are very different than many around the world, but people tend to follow

SPEAKER_00: our lead. Yep. And, you know, the truth is that they don't make bright lines. Why don't they make bright lines? Well, because there are some uses that are clearly like, if a child draws a Jedi Knight, of their bulldog, you're not going to have the police come and arrest them. And Disney is totally cool with that. But once you introduce commercial benefit, that's where you have this doctrine of that was the IP, the original IP owner should have the right to that opportunity. So if I am Star Wars, they should have a Disney plus AI that allows you to do this. And then if you want to produce it in the world, it would put at the bottom created by Disney plus, so this should be built into Disney plus, you can make any characters you want, you can put your face on it, my face on it, make birthday cards, and you can go print

SPEAKER_14: them. So all of this should happen there. And Etsy is the an example of people creating bespoke, single use products, etc. And when they do stuff. Yeah, they can get in trouble for this. And so there is a

SPEAKER_09: constant tug of war with Disney going to them and saying, Listen, you can't make Jedi robes or whatever,

SPEAKER_00: or they'll let people do it. And it's up to the IP owner. But I did buy a Jedi outfit, because I went to a samurai party once. And I said, I thought it'd be fun to come as because I know the Jedi were inspired

SPEAKER_150: by the samurai. Yeah. So I bought a samurai, a Jedi outfit, an Obi-Wan Jedi outfit. And yeah, so you can

SPEAKER_11: buy all this stuff on Etsy. Yeah. And just for those listening, we're just scrolling through just Jedi

SPEAKER_44: night merchandise on Etsy. Now you could be an artist, and you could make a pop culture reference,

SPEAKER_00: like Andy Warhol did of a Campbell soup thing. And you know, they don't have recourse. But if you were to

SPEAKER_17: do it at scale, they might have recourse. So yeah, these are very things. Are you saying that Disney doesn't care? Because these are individuals that are, you know, maybe selling 10 or 20 t shirts or 100 at most, but it because open AI is a now a 100 billion dollar company that is the scale of the theft

SPEAKER_01: matters. Why does the scale of the theft matter? Well, because you have to look at and say, are they

SPEAKER_00: infringing on Disney's ability to do something in the world? So let's say, you and I decided we were going to create an event where we had a Jedi night party. Okay, great. Happy birthday, Jake Allen is a Jedi night party. So that's the theme. Great Star Wars theme. Everybody has a great time. Now imagine we said, Wow, everybody has such a great time at this. Let's make it a permanent installation at cow hollow, we'll get a building, and then we'll charge 50 bucks to come. And it's like, well, that sounds like Star Wars town at Disney world. Disney world. Yeah. And so that's where the scale of something that the monetization of something comes in. So when you look at figmas, uh, what do they call it? figma gem fig figma gem? Yeah. Good name. I give the figma team a lot of credit. I like the name. Um, they're using a language model to go find, you know, best practices. There might be 10,000 documents of best practices out there. It doesn't feel like any one person is having too much stolen from them, you know, but you know, this is where like the images in Dolly or I guess

SPEAKER_05: it was stable diffusion when it had the Getty logo on it and the indexed on that. This is where the problems come in journey, all these, okay, just depends on you need to have somebody who feels

SPEAKER_09: exploited in order to have copyright lawsuits happen. And so that's why a lot of these go back to Disney because Disney, um, is a very old company and the rights to Disney's characters were going to fall into the public domain and Mickey mouse. A lot of these laws literally revolve around protecting

SPEAKER_11: Mickey mouse. It's going to be very interesting. I like it. It's kind of, it's, it's tough for me because I like to see the advancement, but I also respect copyright holders. So in the case of the

SPEAKER_17: bulldogs and I see the difference between sort of the, the Etsy use case and then your individual

SPEAKER_09: use case as well. And the shining one is fan fiction. So now if you were to do fan fiction, um, you can do that. It's no big deal. Yeah. Uh, now if you try to sell the fan fiction,

SPEAKER_00: it turns out 50 shades of gray, which became a huge movie franchise with a lot of money.

SPEAKER_09: It started, my understanding is as twilight fan fiction. That was twilight erotica.

SPEAKER_173: So there is a great company called Wattpad,

SPEAKER_09: Canadian company. It's done very well and they help people monetize, monetize, fan fiction. And, um, you know, Star Trek, I think took a heavy hand. Star Wars took a,

SPEAKER_00: we'll give you the sounds to make a lightsaber video. Uh, and we'll give you the collateral and teach you how to do it, but you can't, um, commercialize it. So that's like, there's a kid who does star Wars theory and he did, uh, a movie about Darth Vader and he's doing a second part on it. Wow. And as long as he doesn't sell the movie, he can raise money as donations and make

SPEAKER_141: the movie. But as long as he doesn't sell it, Disney has given people the okay. So, you know,

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SPEAKER_186: pretty cool. Let's get some grades going here. Figma jam. Figma jam. Figma jam. Yeah. I'm going to tell you,

SPEAKER_68: I love this a lot. I could see myself using it. This feels to me like a way for non-designers to

SPEAKER_09: want to use figma more. Um, I love whiteboarding software like this. I've used it before. Uh, it's very creative. It's good for remote teams. The potentials here. Um, yeah. Uh, and I like this kind of being built into project management software. I like it being built into any number of pieces of software. Uh, and if you want to impress your boss, if you're a young person or young in your career, like in a new position, like you're new to a position, if you worked for me and said, Hey, I know we're doing the angel summit again. Um, we're going to call it liquidity this

SPEAKER_141: time. I'm, I'm changing the branding of angel summit to liquidity. Cause I want to make it, um, go beyond angels. Cause I have all these LPs and hedge fund people coming now. So it's going to be

David Friedberg: liquidity, the liquidity summit, liquidity conference. And I'm going to probably do a podcast called liquidity for like 10 episodes where I put together a little bit of a round table or it may be solo and I haven't decided yet, but this liquidity podcast I want to do, I want to have an LP

SPEAKER_00: Okay. A GP. And then like a hedge fund manager or an economist. Okay. And just talk about

SPEAKER_156: capital allocation writ large. What do you think of that idea?

SPEAKER_17: Um, it's definitely up market and I think, yeah, and I think it's niche. So it's gotta be smaller. Um, if you can tie it back in, like you, you don't want to, I mean, I, I spoke at the last conference that you did, right? The one in Napa and I thought it was excellent. And I thought like that was, that was going in the right direction. So as long as you don't get too far away from what you were doing there, because I thought the content was excellent. I thought what you explained to

SPEAKER_11: everyone on the, the vision of the fund and, and everything happening was good. So just don't get too far away. Don't leave everyone behind Jake. You're the, you're out there fighting for the,

Chamath Palihapitiya: the little guys. Yeah. So my idea is to have the angel investors there, high net worth individuals,

SPEAKER_09: got it, have LPs there. Uh, people who back funds have some GPs there who could help pay for the party, basically, uh, subsidize it, uh, and who get benefit from meeting LPs. And then maybe, you know, like I had Gavin, um, there, uh, you have gotten bigger, did a great talk. I had Steve Jurvetson did a great talk. You did a great, really good. So, you know, the three of you did these incredible talks. Um, and so anyway, that's, that's my thinking on it is like to do that. But now my point was if somebody on my team who was doing event production used one of these tools and then

SPEAKER_00: had this all organized and then formatted into questions and made a document or brought this up. It was like, Hey, can we do a jam session on this with figma jam? I set it up already. I would assume that they did all that work and I would then give them credit for it. So if you want extra credit and you're a remote employee, you could probably use these tools to make it look like you're doing a ton of work, do 15 minutes of work and then screw off for three hours and 45 minutes. And your boss is probably gonna think you did a lot. Or you can work for somebody like me who does it. And then says, this took me 15 minutes and chat GPT. People ask me questions now. Remember that website? Uh, let me Google that for you. Let me Google it for you. Yeah. Can somebody in the audience make, let me GPT that for you. Yeah. Because people are like, how do I do X? And I'm,

SPEAKER_05: I literally take, I cut and paste our question into chat GPT barred back to him as a share.

SPEAKER_00: And I take, and I send it back to him as a share and I take three screenshots and I put it in the public slot. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know. I just did this. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. I give

SPEAKER_05: this a B plus. Okay. It was a B plus. This was inspiring to see. Okay. I think this is really,

SPEAKER_17: I'm at a minus. I'm at a minus for this. Cause I, I like the feature. I was probably a little bit higher, but like the features that you said, if it could just iterate while you're, you know, talking or something like that, that would, that would basically take it to being a perfect product,

SPEAKER_09: essentially. Yeah. Why not just add, they can do this with like, they're, you need to do this with zoom. You could make this a zoom plugin, or you could add your own audio to it. Yeah. And then just to the team at Figma, uh, they're awesome. Yeah. Just let us do a little discussion while we're doing this and talk to the AI. Yeah. Much better experience. Yeah. Or have the AI listening to us. And then actually a good bridge step would be have the AI listening and have it just give a running list of potential prompts. And you just click run prompt, run prompt, run prompt. Yeah. And you

SPEAKER_17: like to create a budget. Yes or no. Yeah. And J Cal, as you always do as the world greatest moderator, it's a good segue into the next thing that's happening in AI, which, you know, you had, um, the founder of, I think it's pronounced Korea on, uh, recently. Yeah. And so this is, um, what,

SPEAKER_68: you know, what are called these like. Episode 1850 Korea was spelled K R E a real time image

SPEAKER_09: manipulation. So think of Dolly where that I showed that Jedi Knight in Dolly or stable diffusion. Um, but when you, if you wanted to move the lightsaber or change the smile or something, you can move the objects around and it changes in real time. It's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_11: Yeah. And so I'm doing a share here now for those watching, and this is becoming something quite real. So I have a picture with the moon and I've, I kind of squiggled a, you know, maybe look what I wanted to be a mountain in the background. And you can see its creativity change as I'm moving

SPEAKER_232: around and dragging a circle around on the left. That is like your heads up display. It's just a

SPEAKER_09: little circle made in like a Microsoft eight window looks very bit mappy basic on the right.

SPEAKER_00: You have stable diffusion, creating beautiful real time images. And it thinks in one of these

SPEAKER_17: that you have a woman blowing a kiss to the moon over here. Yeah. And over here, it thinks it's a mountain, which is what I was kind of going for. And what this does for like input and kind of real time discovery, editing and creativity to me is well beyond. Now, the point that we were talking about earlier, because here you're just seeing the power of the models and the humans kind of interacting together, um, in rear, very, very creative ways.

SPEAKER_68: When it's moving the image, it's giving an input to a large language model, correct?

SPEAKER_240: Yes, correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_68: Is it giving a text-based one or is it just saying recreate the image with the moon here

SPEAKER_00: with these pixels here? Like if you were to explain to a lay person, a five-year-old, whatever, what's happening behind the scenes here, how is this accomplished and what is this called?

SPEAKER_11: So the, the starting point is this prompt, right? A moon in a starry night.

SPEAKER_17: So that's kind of given the frame of reference. And then what this picture on the left is doing is basically tweaks to that. So as you've probably done a hundred times, right? And you, as you were creating those bulldogs and, and, and cat vaders, um, you know, this is, this is a different way to provide an input. That's not just words because ultimately words get translated back down into numbers for machines. Right. And so this is just another representation. And that's why, you know, it's funny. I had this tweet on the weekend saying, we need to just stop calling them large language models because there's just sequence predictors. And so in this particular case, it's using it to kind of predict what I'm looking for by giving it an input. That's not a language in any way, shape or form. Now, one could argue that this picture is maybe perhaps a representation of language because I'm trying to draw a tree and what we're really seeing happen here, which I think is just fascinating is the creativity explosion goes up because a lot of people don't have the ability to describe what exactly what they're looking for and then iterate it in ways. And then you see here, the create, the creativity of the model when I'm on the left here. And you know, for those folks just listening, my intent was a moon with a mountain in the background. Mm hmm. But when I move it over to the right, I get this person because

SPEAKER_76: it's interpretation of a lot of a person. It thought you're drawing was a person's face.

SPEAKER_17: Yeah, exactly. And that that's what it. Yeah. And I think that's and this to me ties back into what you were talking about with figma jam, where we now are entering this world where it should be iterate how we're iterating this image on the right hand side by moving this picture around. Mm hmm. Imagine we had that happening in figma jam with kind of the inputs that we were giving. We're right there. We're I mean, on this one, I'd say we're less than three months away from that

SPEAKER_44: happening. This is inspiring. Um, producer John was playing with this. So if you unshare your screen,

SPEAKER_250: he'll show what he was just doing with this, but I give this, uh, you know, right now, I feel like

SPEAKER_09: this is very solid. I give it a B. Okay. I feel like the images are really good and I would almost

SPEAKER_00: be able to use them. I too would like to see this have, uh, some while I'm dragging stuff around, if I could say, if I could give a prompt and say, make it brighter. So I'm moving the sun around. He's

SPEAKER_09: moving the sun around here with the ocean. Yeah. So sun over ocean is the prompt here. And so I would

SPEAKER_00: like to say, oh, make it daytime or make it brighter, uh, or make, uh, larger waves in the ocean, add a surfer. Yeah. So while I'm dragging things around, I would like to talk to it. And this reminds

SPEAKER_09: me a lot of blade runner where he is examining photos and he's like, zoom in on that to the left, to the right, uh, recreate this, whatever. And then also in, uh, of course the incredible, uh, film minority report where he's got special gloves on and he's pinching and zooming and moving objects around a virtual

Chamath Palihapitiya: desktop and AR basically, uh, you know, projection. So again, I like having multiple inputs here. I like talking to it. I like dragging it around. And then you could see creativity getting really wild.

SPEAKER_09: And then you could say, make it trippy or make it like a seventies photo, uh, or, you know, put some people in, you know, bikinis and surfers out there. Yeah. Make them, uh, make it more like the sixties, you know, style, fashion style. Okay. Yeah. Put a barn fire on the beach and then you start like really getting into, uh, massive advances in creativity. So I think this is like a 1.0 product. I give it a B.

SPEAKER_260: It's a solid B. All right. But, um, again, yeah, like I want to see multimodal input here and I want

SPEAKER_14: to see more participatory AI. I want the AI talking to me. It would be great if the AI said, how can I

SPEAKER_68: make this better? Yeah. Or is this what you intended? So do you have a location in mind? Maybe we tell you, do you have a specific beach in mind? Like, what are the questions the AI should ask me? It should

SPEAKER_00: ask me what time of day do you want anything else in the photo? Do you, is the sun you want the sun brighter? Do you want the sun higher or lower? It seems like you want the sun setting. Like it

SPEAKER_05: should be interacting with you more. And I find like chat GPTs haven't could easily do that today,

SPEAKER_00: but I feel like the people making them are not thinking holistically of the relationship between

SPEAKER_17: the creator. Well, that's a really good creator. You know, the really good point is that good creation is always in a highly interactive and this is interactive in one way that collaborative. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: You're going to call it jam. If it's figma jam, if this is image jam, then make it like a jam session, which is you and I make eye contact. I'm playing the base. You're playing the guitar. We got another

David Friedberg: piano. We're kind of looking at each other, speeding up, slowing down, giving some vibes, you know,

SPEAKER_274: give some vibes, give some vibes. Okay. Well, what's your grade on here? You're very forgiven.

SPEAKER_20: I'm going to be, you're probably going to give a B plus I'm guessing. No, I, I, I think it's a B

SPEAKER_17: plus. Like, I think these are, look, what I'm really blown away by is in less than a year, right? Where we've gone mid journey dolly. We're seeing it now. This is just real time. You don't even have like, I have a mid journey with maybe 5,000 generations in it because I've iterated trying to create an image so much that like, I'm, you know, I've done it like a hundred times to try to get the right image. And now having something like this is just a game changer. Um, and you know,

SPEAKER_68: I'll tell you how much of a game changer is this in September or in the summer, I was trying to make

SPEAKER_00: the all in posters. Yeah. Using, uh, the stuff and it just wasn't coming for the summit. Like we had the bestie who loved me like how we had a fast times at bestie high, the beach party, the beach party just wasn't working. And then this weekend when we were doing our hearts up for all in, um, when I said, make me put the words all in with a bunch of hearts and unicorns around it, it made it to me perfectly. And it actually kind of put it in the right size. I guess it just

SPEAKER_84: defaults to the, you know, I think Instagram size or whatever, four by three, uh, whatever that is. And I was, that was the first time I was like, Dolly isn't the best model.

SPEAKER_110: I don't think so. Yeah. Is there an app I can use

SPEAKER_05: that would allow me to use copyrighted stuff and upload it? Like if I wanted to upload my image and make me into a, a, a Darth Vader, how would I, can I do that? Can I put up two images and have it do it? Cause I looked on the app store and every single app in the app store tried to upsell me

SPEAKER_00: on a $7 and 99 a week subscription. Wouldn't let me use it if I didn't do that. Yeah. And I understand

SPEAKER_05: like the servers are expensive, but I couldn't find one that did what I wanted, which is what Dolly

SPEAKER_285: does without the content restrictions. Yeah. Clip drop. Remember we, we brought it up really

SPEAKER_160: quickly last week. I think clip drop, um, yeah, my feeling is they'll, they'll do the best job.

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SPEAKER_62: lightning round folks. Okay. So this is another one of these models, these, um, um, you know,

SPEAKER_17: latent consistency model real time. And what this does is it just takes your video webcam and then you put the prompt down below. And in this case, it was just like turning me into like a version of

David Friedberg: Arnold. Okay. So there you go. Wow. Yeah. Okay. On the left in real time, latent consistency model, you have made yourself look like Arnold from terminator too. Yeah. Pretty convincing. Um,

SPEAKER_68: and it's like a hybrid of you and Arnold and it's doing it in what looks like pretty close to real time.

SPEAKER_295: Yeah. And we're sharing like a GPU and this is like on a free thing. So you can imagine,

SPEAKER_17: you know, and I think this is what you were asking for, like something like this, but you know,

SPEAKER_115: but what I like about this is, um, number one, it makes you look like a badass and that's first

SPEAKER_298: and foremost, what I love about it too. And you're pretty badass already. Um, but it lets you in real

David Friedberg: time kind of play with it. So again, if you were to put, um, you know, add a shotgun or holding a

SPEAKER_177: shotgun and wearing, you know, Ray-Bans, would it do that? Could you say, let's see, hold a shotgun,

SPEAKER_112: uh, holding shotgun to be hard. Cause my, my zoom is there, but maybe we can say wearing sunglasses.

SPEAKER_09: Let's see what it does. Yeah. So sunglasses. Yeah. Uh, maybe put Ray-Bans mirrored sunglasses, mirrored Ray-Ban sunglasses. I'm wondering if it would, well, I might not know what Ray-Bans are, but what are they waiting for? It's a language model and it's been, it's indexed. It should have pictures of Ray-Bans would have every product in the world index. Yeah. So I wonder if it would do

SPEAKER_150: mirrored Ray-Bans. Um, no, it's still doing the same kind of sunglasses. So, um, yeah, I mean,

SPEAKER_00: it's, this is like a C plus for me. Oh, wow. Give it like a C, C plus. It's like, it's a novelty. It's not usable for anything in the real world yet, but we could be sitting here next

SPEAKER_84: year and, uh, you know, we could do the pod as characters from our favorite movies, movies.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah. And, or if we were doing here, I'll give you a really good use case. Let's say we're doing a table read and we are actors in the Avengers and I'm iron man and you're Hulk. And we decide we're going to do a table read. Well, we could do the table read from home and it could make me into the Hulk, make you into iron man. And we could have the table read in character. Yeah. It'd be really accretive to the performances and really help the director. Right. And now we can say, Hey, put us on the battlefield, you know, from end game with Thanos and I'm playing Thanos and you're playing iron man. You know, we do our scene and we kind of get a feel for that moment. And the director is giving real time prompts. Hey, make the scene a little more gritty. Okay. Add some dead soldiers,

SPEAKER_311: add some dead aliens, put some smoke, uh, you know, and, and the director is directing the AI set creator. So imagine the set creation is being done by, you know, the art direction team and the

SPEAKER_00: director, the cinematographer is giving the AI Christian. Hey, can you make this an, uh, a shot from above, make it letterbox. Okay. Now do a cut shot to Thanos. And they would be essentially taking what is a table read where you're just kind of working on performance and dialogue,

SPEAKER_68: but then you add the shots, you add the story words. And so you can see where this is going.

SPEAKER_21: So I think it's a C C plus. Oh, that's a, that's a harsh grade. I'm going to tell you that that is

SPEAKER_145: no, cause it's not usable. I'm bringing usability into here. We are past the chance. We're past the

SPEAKER_20: time. Well, you're like the product manager and I'm the engineer. Like, I'm like, wow,

SPEAKER_128: that's really hard to do. No, no credit for technical achievement here where we're talking about, Hey, in the real world, does this apply at least from my life? That's just a model on hugging,

SPEAKER_17: that's just a model on hugging face. So you're giving people ideas to take that model and go

SPEAKER_09: build around it. Yes. I would like to see, we have a company that's working on like, uh, storyboarding and yeah, you know, doing scripts and stuff like that. And it's, um, it's going well. And I think

SPEAKER_00: this is kind of like eventually going to be the next vision, which is from, from screenplay to

SPEAKER_318: storyboards, to table read, to do fully produce movie. Yeah. To our bet last week. Um, on when

SPEAKER_17: some people, I'm going to bring it up on the next, next weeks, but there's a couple of people that have messaged us. I have one more to show and then let's wrap up. Okay. Okay. You gave it a B or B might, would you say C plus? Oh man, I give it, I give it like a, I give it from a technology perspective an A, but someone's got to take it and build something around it. So hopefully one of our

SPEAKER_330: listeners who wants to. So you're giving it an A in potential. Yes. But what's your real grade?

SPEAKER_62: I mean, it's not meant to be something usable. It's like a, it's a model right now.

SPEAKER_331: You're giving it an A. Okay. Yeah. There it is. Folks, we got a big gap here.

SPEAKER_62: Yeah. On that one where we're, that's very hard to do and it's really well done and it's running for free as incredible. All right. Last one. Um, this is, I wasn't able to demo it cause I took it off GitHub, but I wanted to show this one cause I wanted to get your thoughts on it. So, um, these folks created this model and they just released it yesterday, which basically all you do is give it a picture of yourself and then you give it the dance as described through, you know,

SPEAKER_17: some kind of a stick figure animation and then it will animate you. And I'm think this is great because the tick tock dances need to come to an end. It's a waste. Like, you know, you've said this on the all in pod, like people are wasting their time doing this stuff. And so if this becomes commoditized, I think it's very good for our society because it would be like, well,

SPEAKER_62: we don't know if it's real or fake and everyone has them and people will stop wasting their time

SPEAKER_335: doing dances. Okay. Auto tune of dance. Yes. Good way of call. That's a, you know,

SPEAKER_09: a tune of dance on the left, just a static image of a woman wearing a sweatshirt and sweatpants in the middle, a stick figure doing the dance,

SPEAKER_00: but the dance is derived from a text prompt.

SPEAKER_17: Is that right? Uh, so they haven't released the code for us. I don't know what was the driving force for the dance. Maybe it was like you, it took someone the right way to do it would be someone's already done the dance and then you use an AI in the middle. Yeah, exactly. You take an AI to

SPEAKER_339: turn it into a stick figure and say, well, make me do the same dance.

SPEAKER_09: So essentially, if you'd think about like, I saw somebody complaining, I think it was Elton John was complaining about Madonna lip syncing in her concerts. And he thinks like, if people are paying for tickets, they should be told that they're getting lip syncing. That's kind of an interesting concept, which is like, if I'm paying to go to a concert and I think I'm seeing a live.

SPEAKER_21: You don't know if it's live or semi live or recorded. And they, and he was saying like,

SPEAKER_44: I sing my songs. I want credit for that. Madonna presses the play button with his claim. And if

SPEAKER_09: you're paying a hundred quid to go, like that's unfair. Um, this basically will take it to like, the pop star doesn't need to be able to sing and they just dance crazy. Right.

SPEAKER_17: Well, they got to be able to dance because you're going to go there and they have to, you know, they can't put a video of themselves. Yeah. I'm just talking about the music video.

SPEAKER_156: Yeah. Oh, the videos. Yeah. Just the video. It's like, you're just going to be able to do crazy

SPEAKER_11: dance moves. Um, yeah. I mean, more from a societal standpoint, too many people are spending time doing dances. And I mean, if you had a fun, if you had a joyful time making a tick tock,

SPEAKER_84: I'm okay with it. If it's like your full on purpose in life and like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's just fun. It's great. But then you should just, yeah, everything in proportion, you know,

SPEAKER_213: you and I like to ski just talking to a guy who told me he's skiing like 200 days a year.

SPEAKER_355: And I was like, yeah, I think if I got to, he's moving around, he's moving around then,

SPEAKER_150: right? He's following the Northern Southern hemisphere, snow chaser, snow chaser. Yeah. Um,

SPEAKER_09: and I'm like, yeah, you know, I, I think that would be enough, you know, it was like four times as much skiing as or five times as much skiing as I'd want to do in a year, but okay, sure. Go for it. Um,

SPEAKER_00: so that, yeah, I give this like a B I think it's really, I think this is really impressive. The

SPEAKER_05: output as I, as seen, it's really impressive. Like that looked pretty good to me. Like, I don't know if

SPEAKER_00: it passed the young County Valley for you, but it was pretty close. Yeah. That's the thing I'm noticing is, you know, like the Dolly, I did one of a postcard this weekend from San Francisco. I just gave it the prompt and Dolly make me a modern version of like Tokyo, Dubai and San Francisco,

SPEAKER_05: or make me San Francisco in 2050 postcard and then make it as modern as Dubai and Tokyo. And it did like a really, I think a pretty good job. Yeah. And then when you looked at like it had San Francisco spelled wrong and then it just threw in weird copy, but it did a postcard. So it didn't,

David Friedberg: it didn't have the polish, right. And the fit and finish. Look at this now, you know, like,

SPEAKER_84: if you think like, if I said, I want to do for the next conference, you know, collateral,

SPEAKER_00: we're talking about making collateral. And I wanted to make a welcome to San Francisco. This made like

SPEAKER_84: San ran Cisco with two eyes and welcome to is not correct. It's all kinds of Meshuggah in here and

SPEAKER_00: craziness, but fun. The image itself was acceptable. Um, and so this is the thing, like, I really think the next job of creatives is going to be everybody gets to be creative. And I think this is going to be, when we look at things that are bad for society,

SPEAKER_68: things that are good for society, everybody being able to be creative, I think is going to be

SPEAKER_00: wonderful for society. The fact that you're going to be able to make a movie, write a better screenplay, make beautiful images, make collateral for your conference. That's just upscaled. You, you do your restaurant menu. It looks like, you know, somebody spent, you know, a month on it, but you did it in a minute. All that to me is great for society. Now it's bad for the

SPEAKER_05: people who get paid a lot of money to do that or get paid an average amount of money. But as we

SPEAKER_311: discussed, people used to spend on average, the average funded startup would spend five to $20,000 on a logo and a branding thing when they were a series A company. Yeah. Five to 20 is pretty low.

SPEAKER_372: I mean, probably more than that. Well, I was talking about, you know, you raised them

SPEAKER_311: $2 million or $3 million in 2000, 2010. Oh, back in those times. Yeah. Back in those days when you actually spent money on logos and then 99 designs came out and

SPEAKER_05: you know, then you had Behance and Dribble and Fiverr and, you know, all these up work, all these incredible sites for finding somebody in Manila or Latin America for $35 or $350 or

SPEAKER_311: somebody at home in Canada who would do it for 500, five to 20,000 turned into 500 to 2000 is now going to turn to five minutes to 20 minutes, not even money, just minutes. And I think that's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. Uh, and then those artists can work on higher level things. So you give this like, um, this is to me as a solid day, I'd like it to teach

SPEAKER_380: you dance moves, uh, like Steezy does, you know, teach you the dance moves. So I can see this, like

SPEAKER_05: I do the move and then it shows me what I should look like. So imagine it's like, here's me attempting the move. Yeah. Here's what perfection would look like in my body.

SPEAKER_311: And then I can see myself doing it. Perfect. So, oh, I got to raise my arms a little higher.

SPEAKER_245: My elbows need to go up. Oh, I need to smile and put it into like Peloton or for your workouts. Like here's how you can fix your form or whatever. Yeah. That's actually really interesting. If you

SPEAKER_00: could show me as I would look, if I did weights four days a week and I would say, Hey, do these things. And here's what you're working towards. And this is the percentage you are. Like a fit pod did this. It'd be amazing. Hey, you're, if you commit to this number of workouts, a hundred workouts over

SPEAKER_389: the next year, this is what you could look like. Yeah. And then it shows your form would look like as

SPEAKER_68: well. Like this is how, yeah. And then it shows what percentage you're trending to. You could say,

SPEAKER_390: Hey, you know, you're 3% faster to it than, you know, whatever. This is amazing. I mean,

SPEAKER_68: the world is changing so quickly. If you've got great AI demos, just CC at Sundeep and at Jason, S-U-N-D-E-E-P. First name club. Two E's because he's so excellent. At Sundeep and at Jason,

SPEAKER_09: first name club, you know, that's where we're part of definitive.io. If you've got a huge company or a well-funded company and you need somebody to help you solve these kinds of at scale problems

SPEAKER_392: for Walmart or target or Disney, if you're a fortune 500, like, or if you're an S and P 500, like

SPEAKER_393: the latest S and P 500 company, Uber, Uber. Somebody asked me if I invested in Uber,

David Friedberg: you know what I told them? I got to check. I have a Google sheet where I track all my investments. I gotcha. Might be in there. Might be in there. Might be in there. Might be up, you know, 5% today. Congratulations in all sincerity to the Uber team, alumni, 1.0 team, 2.0 team, the people who were the

SPEAKER_110: 1.5-ers. Congratulations to anyone who bought it at the pandemic low. $16. Yeah. Now you're 4X and

SPEAKER_399: it last year it was 25 bucks a share. Someone from our group chat bought at that low and I

David Friedberg: bought at the same time. You did too. Congratulations. Awesome. Well, we know who's going to be paying for lunch when we go skiing this winter. Let's do it. We'll see you all next time. Awesome. Bye. Bye.