SPEAKER_00: He's building the first lunar hotel using an on-site factory that turns the moon's soil into bricks. You're kidding me.

SPEAKER_03: It's not a put-on. You sure this isn't a put-on? We basically got like manifest destiny going on on the moon.

SPEAKER_05: This is sci-fi becoming reality.

SPEAKER_08: We would build the entire hotel end-to-end without actually needing to send humans because we would have robots that assist us.

SPEAKER_09: You're asking people to put down a million dollar deposit to visit the moon, to own a moon condo. What do you get for a million bucks here?

SPEAKER_07: They've experienced everything that can be done on Earth, that they want to do something greater. The moon hotel is simply just the first wedge towards enabling us to build products on the moon.

SPEAKER_13: All right, everybody, welcome back. It's Twist. It's Monday, June 15th. The New York Knickerbockers have won the world championship. I was there a lot. I was there with my brother, Josh.

SPEAKER_00: And in beautiful San Antonio, the Frost Bank Center.

SPEAKER_13: Very simple ride from, you know, Austin. 70 minutes or so. Yeah, it's not so bad.

SPEAKER_18: Stopped at the original Black's Barbecue. Mm, yes. For people who don't know,

SPEAKER_19: the Black family of Texas, they're having a war right now over who controls the barbecue. So there's one young Black who runs the original Black's Barbecue that's on the road from here to San Antonio. And then there's Terry Black's here in Austin,

SPEAKER_21: which is a different child of the Black family. It's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_22: We had a very similar thing in Brooklyn and Harlem. There's a place, Patsy Grimaldi's Pizza.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Patsy's, Grimaldi's, Brick Oven Pizza, fantastic. Frank Sinatra used to go to the one under the Brooklyn Bridge, and then there's the one up in Harlem. Anyway, long story short, same situation. You know, the kids, the cousin, the uncle, whatever.

SPEAKER_29: Everybody's got the same last name. And they all want to be the inheritor of the tradition because Black's one of the oldest barbecue places in Central Tech. And it was fantastic.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Really great beef rip, really great brisket. If I were to swap those two items with Terry Black's, I probably wouldn't know the difference if I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_13: But I just want to say, you know, my brother had an observation being from Brooklyn. He's like, wow, Texas is amazing. Everybody's so polite. Oh, man. Everybody's so cordial. Yeah. And it's like it used to be in Brooklyn when we were growing up. You just assume everybody's of good faith. And we walk into Black's Barbecue. What is that, Laredo? I don't know. Kyle, Buda, somewhere down there. Yeah. Anyway, there's like two or three down there. And everybody's like, oh, hey, you going to the game? Yeah. They said, oh, man, good luck, man. I said, oh, thanks. You're a Nick fan? They said, no, I'm a Spurs fan.

SPEAKER_38: I said, oh, I really appreciate that. You have a great team and just really cordial. And I was six rows behind the Nick's bench. Cost me a fortune. But, you know, I probably marketed YOLO'd 6K into it and won 15, so I paid for the ticket. Right. Gambling. I love these prediction markets. It's so much fun. Shout out to my guys at Polymarket. I think I saw Shane with courtside seats. Probably. Everybody was there. It was fantastic. And just a great relief after, you know, I was there for two of the failed attempts versus Houston and versus Spurs. I was there when the Spurs won on our court. Spurs got a bright future. A lot of great young players. But, man, this Nick's team has transcended. Thank you to Leon. Thank you to Coach Brown. Thank you to Jalen Brunson. OG Ananobi. Mitchell Robinson. Josh Hart. I mean, just Bridges. F them picks. Just so many great players. And had a great time calling in this season. Two. Nick's Fan TV. Shout out to my guys over there. Alex. CK2K. And, of course, CP of the franchise. Great YouTube channel to follow. They do this fan TV, which is like a thing in soccer where they have all these fan shows. The fans just get on and, you know, they're drunk and blah, blah, blah. And they're yelling, but they're obsessed with the game. KFTV. Nick's Fan TV. It's got 100,000 followers. And he's been following the team for nine years. What a great story. He was following the team when they had 17 wins a season. There's 82 games a season. When we were the worst team in the league, he was following this team and had literally 30 people watching his live stream. You know, then when they win games, he has 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 people watching live. And then another, you know, 100,000 watching after that. So, just great all around. Amazing for the city of New York. Couple of notes. Couple of notes. Number one, during the national anthem, put your hand over your heart.

SPEAKER_42: Take your goddamn hat off. And no screaming. I want you to wait till the end. People are screaming.

SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, a little bit of, I think the one moment you're allowed to get excited during the anthem is,

SPEAKER_47: and the rock is red glare. When they hit that note, you're allowed to give a little woo,

SPEAKER_49: a little cheer. Under, not for me, but okay. I'm okay with it. It's kind of a tradition.

SPEAKER_51: That's a tradition. Yeah. Like, oh, they hit that, they hit that note.

SPEAKER_52: Well done. Okay, fine. Yeah. It's kind of like a roar in the end. It's like a pre-applaus. Right. But there's guys who are yelling, Go Knicks! Yeah, no, that's, yeah.

David Friedberg: Every time, and the person's trying to sing the national anthem, it's not, it's uncouth. Disrespect. Second thing that's uncouth, you know, if you lose, which I've spent 50 years doing with

SPEAKER_60: this team, you can't take it out on the other fans. There was like a little random violence here. I'm also not down with the vulgarity and the burning of other people's journeys. It's not cool. Be classy in victory and be honorable in defeat. Right. This is just a PSA for young fans.

Chamath Palihapitiya: I don't mind if you climb a lamppost or whatever, but I'm not down with you burning, you know,

SPEAKER_66: a fire engine or a police car. None of that shenanigans. Keep it classy, folks. Most people get excited.

SPEAKER_00: It seemed like I saw a lot of footage of the celebrations in New York, and it seemed like the rowdiness was an outlier.

SPEAKER_18: Most people, it felt like it was a real community, all-in-good-fun sort of vibe.

David Friedberg: Now, I've been on the road. I think this was my ninth game in this postseason, and then one time, yeah, a couple times last year, but just for this postseason, this jacket. Oh, the lucky jacket. Yeah. I just want to say thank you and shout out to Kith. I had to pay for this. It's not a freebie or anything, but this is an Averitts, which is like the classic jacket.

SPEAKER_13: And they did this. This is an incredible designer. K-I-T-H. Kith is an incredible designer. This jacket costs a free pen. I don't want to say how much, but, you know, a couple of Gs. It's now become like a classic. You can, like people are selling these in the aftermarket. I think they only made like a hundred of them. The guy's like, hey, you know, here at Kith, we're huge fans of yours.

SPEAKER_05: I was like, okay, great. Can I get this jacket? And they're like, oh, yeah, well, here's how it works. You go to Williamsburg, you line up at 5 a.m., and you've got a pretty good shot.

SPEAKER_74: They give you a ticket. I said, hey, let me stop you right there. I'm old. And I'm not going to Williamsburg.

SPEAKER_75: If it was a 25-year-old J-Cal, 30-year-old J-Cal, I'm all in. You're fans.

SPEAKER_78: I'm fans. How about this? You send me an invoice for five dimes. I send you five dimes. Put it in your interest-bearing account.

SPEAKER_60: Make 500 a year off me, whatever it is, you know?

SPEAKER_13: And then when you drop the Knicks heat, I'll just tell you which ones I want. Maybe you send it to me, whatever. Make a little VIP broadcast. I said, oh, it's very interesting. And sure enough, I get an invoice. I get the jacket. Boom. Boom. Jacket.

SPEAKER_38: Nine for nine in playoff games. I went. The heat doesn't, the air conditioning doesn't work in the dump of an arena the Spurs are still in. They're getting a new arena.

SPEAKER_81: The Frost Bank Arena is where the Spurs play.

SPEAKER_82: I mean, just literally tear it down.

SPEAKER_83: It's, I mean, this thing is, it's rough.

SPEAKER_13: Anyway, they're going to build a new arena. Yes, they're working. But they don't have air conditioning working in this building. Wow.

SPEAKER_38: And so it's hot down there and they just, it gets hot in there. I wouldn't take the jacket off. I took it off a couple of times just to hold it up.

SPEAKER_89: Well, it's lucky. The team's counting on you, you know?

SPEAKER_90: I'm sweating. Anyway, you know, we got a lot on the docket today. I'm really excited about today's guest because space is so big with the SpaceX IPO.

SPEAKER_42: I just don't want to miss a moment. So I'm going to just get this plod pin on here. Yeah. Get your plod pin on.

SPEAKER_38: I press the button. I now have the haptic going. Now everything's recorded. You know me. I'm on a tear right now. I'm on a tear right now working at the company. You see behind the scenes, all the stuff I'm doing. I'm vibe coding. There's a lot going on. Claude, the perplexity. I'm like, I'm doing a lot. Perplexity and Claude to automate all this stuff and level everybody up. We got five associates in training starting. So I'm really excited about our business and running it and, you know, all the great stuff we're doing. But I don't want to miss a minute. So I use plod. I went on a hike the other day around the ranch. Had a lot of action items that come to my mind when I'm hiking in nature with my 25 pound kettlebell, doing my old band rucking. I never miss anything because I just turn the plod on. I might not talk for 15 minutes and then I talk for 10. Then I'm quiet for 15. I talk for another 10. Get back, put it in the cradle, catch in the cradle. Boom. Summarizes it.

SPEAKER_99: I get the bullet points.

SPEAKER_38: I pull it up on my desktop. Yeah. I've never touched my phone, by the way. And then I have all my notes waiting for me there, organized. And then I can share you the raw feed with all those notes or, you know, I just look at it.

SPEAKER_102: I remember a couple of things, cut and paste, bing, right into Slack and I'm ready to go. Yeah. The app. Don't miss a moment.

SPEAKER_19: Pulls the whole thing together. You can put the app wherever you want. And then all your conversations just live across all your devices. So if you want to make your work more efficient, like J-Cal, you need to get your own plod note pin S. If you check it out at plod.ai slash twist and use the code twist, they're

SPEAKER_00: going to give you 10% off your purchase.

SPEAKER_66: All right. Let's get started. We have a great guest today. I think we're going to get right to it. Or do you want to do news and then guess? No, no.

SPEAKER_00: I think we should get, I think we should get right to our guest. He's building the first lunar hotel in a, using an onsite factory that turns the moon's soil into bricks. Just like this one I'm holding up in front of you. Please welcome Skylar Chan of Grew Space. No, they, they think he sent us bricks.

SPEAKER_48: It's not a put on. You sure this isn't a put on lunar soil?

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Chamath Palihapitiya: It's not a put on. This is like for real. It's a real startup planning on building a lunar base.

SPEAKER_05: Explain how you came up with the idea and where you're at in this journey, because this is sci-fi becoming reality.

SPEAKER_115: Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for having me on the show.

SPEAKER_116: So yeah, I'm a scholar. I started this because I always wanted to become an astronaut when I was a kid. So, so obsessed with becoming an astronaut as a kid that I decided that why don't we all go to space? And so we have this end state future of exciting, like first cities being built on the moon and Mars, like the next San Francisco, the next New York on the moon and Mars. The question is working backwards from that. What are the series of civilizational scale technologies that we need to develop to make this happen? And it's not just rockets anymore. Clearly with the IPO, we saw that ship has sailed. The next SpaceX is going to be building the first habitation modules, the enablement of using resources off Earth, but using resources on the moon to create structures. So we don't have to pay for all the shipping from Earth to the moon. And so that's kind of where we're at. We just went for YC last batch and off to the center ship to the moon.

SPEAKER_122: So it's pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_121: So maybe we can get into technically what you're actually doing. We understand the moon base. Great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_78: We also understand, hey, shipping bricks and materials from Home Depot to the moon is quite wasteful. So you're going to build some sort of a factory. You got to ship something up there.

SPEAKER_60: But then I'm seeing here in this video, very evocative. You have designed and tested building these bricks out of moon soil. Is it soil? Is it what is the moon constructed of when we would compare it to soil on Earth? And then take us through this process.

SPEAKER_09: And how do you test something like that? Do you actually have some moon rocks that you bought for a billion dollars to test it? Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, let's dive into the details.

SPEAKER_116: So basically what we're doing with is lunar regolith and lunar regolith is topsoil on the lunar surface. So think of it just like dirt all over the moon. The idea here is that, like you said, it doesn't make sense for us to just keep shipping shit to the moon because it's very expensive. And we should just be using resources on the moon. Like we built the US. Did we bring everything from Europe? No, use the timber available in the US. And so what we're doing is we're building a factory. Think of it like a payload, like a mini spacecraft that we're sending to the lunar surface. And what it's going to do is it's going to have an excavation stage, a couple stages, excavation stage on the moon where we mine lunar regolith with a robotic arm. Then when we filter out the lunar regolith, you want the fine particulate because then there's more surface area to bind it with a geopolymer, which we bring from Earth. Now, if you just chat to you, like how do you make stuff on the moon? Right. You're going to find centering and melting among other proposed approaches to do this. The reason why we didn't choose these approaches is because of energy. And when we think about the sort of timeline that we're dealing with, right, NASA wants to build a moon base like ASAP immediately. We basically got like manifest destiny going on on the moon. And so in terms of a timeline, like we can do things like laser the ground with like thousands of degrees of Celsius. It's too costly and we don't have the equipment. So the decision we made at GRU is like, let's use a geopolymer based approach with a robotic

SPEAKER_07: arm, with some other stuff in our payload that we're going to reveal soon to use the resources on the moon intelligently so that we can break down the cost of construction on the surface.

SPEAKER_78: Got it. Now, your hope, I'm guessing, is that NASA gives you a contract to be the contractor to make the bricks that make the lunar base. Or do you want to be the owner of the lunar base? Are there going to be multiple lunar bases? Because it sounds like building a lunar base is a multi-billion dollar product. And it sounds like you solve one of the acute problems. But I don't know if they're going to just let some random YC founder have a base on the moon. I know this like not regulated, but there's going to be some regulation going on at some point of this.

SPEAKER_05: So talk a little bit about what your aspiration here is and who your customer is. Obviously, your customer right now is venture capitalists who are crazy and want to, you

SPEAKER_78: know, do this Hail Mary amazing idea. Awesome.

SPEAKER_13: But you got to get a customer at some point and the customer's got to pay for something. So talk about how you what the business model here is.

SPEAKER_116: Yeah. So the exciting thing is like pre literally on our demo day for YC was when NASA had the ignition event where they basically announced that they would spend $20 billion to build a moon base, which is a great demand signal for us. So now we're talking like the timeline post that time frame. Yeah. The short answer is like we want to be NASA's go to moon based construction contractor. And the pathway to getting there is to prove something called TRL. Right. So technology readiness level. NASA ranks you on a scale of one to nine. The higher you are, the more likely you are to get contracts. And the best way to do that is to demonstrate that the tech actually works on the moon, which is why we're doing this mission to make the first ever product the brick. But the second half of your question is like the business plan, which is very exciting to preface this all. It's a very blue ocean market. As we've seen with SpaceX in the early days, it wasn't obvious that like reusable rockets was at play. It wasn't obvious that Starlink was going to evolve. Just like with the moon, there's a lot of things that are not obvious yet for why construction, more specifically, the ability to use resources off Earth, decoupling us from Earth is going to lead to like this massive explosion in terms of value. And so for us, it looks like, of course, the moon hotel is simply just the first wedge towards enabling us to build products on the moon, do a demo on the moon, then earn the moon based construction contracts and then scale. Right. And to your point as well, regulation is very interesting. There's actually not much set, hard, clear cut regulation for who does what on the moon. So our prediction is it's going to look like if you look at the Hudson's Bay Company, right, in Canada, they owned a huge chunk of land for 200 years before they sold it back to Canada. And so it looks like companies owning pieces of land on the moon, which frankly, we've stated this in our white paper is on a roadmap is our aspiration is to eventually own a lot of the resources and the land on the moon. And we do this because we're the ones who figure out how to even do stuff with it. Right. Because we're the reason for utilization company. So that's the end state vision after that, eventually it's really to hit the final form of our company, which is galactic resource utilization, black scale, ISRU, elevating humanity to type three on the partnership scale. So that's really the end state of our company.

SPEAKER_134: Yeah. Wow. That's it's it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_19: I'm curious how far down the road do you need? Can you get without humans going to the moon? Like obviously sending the factory, getting started, that's all going to be sort of automated. How, how far along can you get in terms of building structures on the moon before we have no choice? Like we got to send a few astronauts up there. You mean a few astronauts to help construct, you know, that like, even if it's the final stage of the process before guests start arriving or whatever, like at some point you're going to have to have humans going to the moon.

SPEAKER_137: So this is pre concierge, pre concierge at your lunar hotel. Exactly.

SPEAKER_116: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's the thing is like everything that we can do with robots is a lot cheaper than having to send humans, right? Having to send a human up to the moon. There's a lot of other associated costs like life systems, ECLSS, like et cetera, et cetera, power comms, et cetera. So the idea is like we would build the entire hotel end to end without actually needing to send humans because we would have robots that assist us. This is important because if you think about the tech tree in terms of like how do you sequence this, we've done robotics on the moon and Mars. We have something humans have something called flight heritage. What humans don't have flight heritage on is how do you use resources on the moon to make a product, which is why we decide in our roadmap for our company is like, okay, let's laser focus ourselves on proving that we can make a brick on the moon, right? That is going to unlock all these other things because what's the next stage? Similarly to other companies that, for example, like StarCloud, they send a GPU to space. What's next? Let's send like thousands of these bad boys up. Yeah, for us. Okay. We can prove that we can make a brick on the moon. Let's send thousands of these bad boy factories up to the moon to just crank out more bricks, just accelerate the construction. This is a very exciting future at the end of the day, because for the first time in human history, you look up at the moon, like it's no longer just a place to look at and people visit. It's going to be a place like this space station where we're going to have constant human presence on the moon, which is a very exciting time to be alive.

SPEAKER_108: Yeah, and all this is enabled, Lon, because Elon has taken the cost of getting to space,

SPEAKER_78: I think, down 90% plus now.

SPEAKER_146: If you see those charts, it's exponential. As soon as you can reuse the rockets, the costs just plummet.

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SPEAKER_13: We'll get that famous chart and pull it up in a second. Yeah. And so, but then we have like Lunar Rovers and those kinds of things which have robotic arms on them, but you're going to need some providers for your company, Skylar.

SPEAKER_78: You're not going to be able to make Optimus robots, or you're not going to be able to make the robotic arms. So is there a company making robots that work in space, or is that limited to government now? And who are they?

Chamath Palihapitiya: Because that's the exciting part about this for me, Skylar, is so many entrepreneurs now, because you can get to space for 10 times less, are now going. So really interesting if we can get there for 10 times less. Now we're going to need 1,000 different problems to be solved, 10,000 different problems to be solved, 100,000 problems. And one of them is, you know, will this GPU work in space? So NVIDIA is working on a specific GPU for space, and we had StarCloud on this week in AI the other week. They have to make it so their GPU, like if you just send up an H100, it might come apart.

SPEAKER_78: It's not made for the G-force going to space. It might not have the heat profiles and be designed to dissipate heat the way it does in our atmosphere.

SPEAKER_66: So man, there's so many different things that have to occur. Who's the company making the robots that actually work in zero Gs in space, radiation, et cetera?

SPEAKER_156: Yeah, there's a couple of companies out there.

SPEAKER_116: I mean, if you look at the LTV providers, so LTV is like the lunar terrain vehicle. You've got like Lunar Outposts, Astrolab. There's a whole other set of companies. You know, we're obviously in the mix of all these different folks, and we have different things coming up, which we'll save that for later. But yeah, there's a whole subgroup of companies there. There's a lot of like robotic arm companies as well that do construction or welding and have done demos on Earth. There's a lot of comms companies. There's a lot of power companies. So some bit of background, and this is important, I guess, is when you look at the lunar economy, you've got a lot of different services, right? Services for like providing power, providing comms, like power as in like nuclear, crazy stuff on nuclear to like solar to like laser beaming on the moon. Like it's some really cool shit. And you got this whole like bucket of people here. You've got the comms guys. So like how do you like FaceTime your friends when the moon holds up back home? The nice thing here, and rather I think the bigger takeaway is this.

SPEAKER_07: If you think about the space industry as a whole, it's really got two pillars underpinning it, right? You've got governments and billionaire back companies. What we're doing at GRU is we're taking the unconventional approach. We're saying, hey, let's use a third pillar, space tourism, extend to the literal moon and build the first hotel on the moon.

SPEAKER_116: The hotel is actually nice because if we win, it's like an index on everyone else because comms guys, we'll be using them. Yeah. The LTV rovers. Well, they won't have to be just depending on NASA to stay alive. Like we can use the rovers for ATVing on the moon for tourists, et cetera, et cetera. So it's really this whole ecosystem, right? The moon hotel, interestingly enough, again, key distinction is the branding is distinct hotel and base, but the key technology is really the same.

SPEAKER_158: It's the enablement of using resources on the moon for building all kinds of products.

SPEAKER_161: So tell me about this hotel in space. Is that like actually part of the vision right now? And, you know, obviously you have customers. NASA might just say, hey, yeah, we'll give you a contract to make us 10,000 bricks and

SPEAKER_66: here's the funding and here's your milestones. Oh, that's all great. But talk to me about this, like really far out there concept that, hey, if you go to space, you might need a bed. You might need a hotel room.

SPEAKER_116: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's inevitable. I think one nice thing called we got was you saw on the Elon JP Morgan summit, like they're talking about moon hotels too. And so, yeah, it's, it's on the roadmap. Like if you think about critical path, so moon hotel, like technically, like on a technical level, what does that look like? You've got, let's say a habitat on the moon. Okay. Let's break that down further. Let's work backwards. Let's say all of us, you know, Jason, Lon, et cetera. We just teleport to the moon right now. We take off our spacesuits. What's the first thing that's going to kill us? The lack of pressure on the moon. Yeah. Okay. Next thing. Float off into the stars. Yeah. We're just going to explode. Like it'll be not pretty, right? Temperature swings, radiation, and then the potential for micrometer impacts. So then what we did, I grew up was like, okay, there's, there's a lot of other problems, obviously like, okay, how do you recycle the water? How do you recycle this and this? But these things have been solved again on the space station. Let's focus on what's critical of that, like at its core. So if you've got pressure and temperature, like working backwards from that, what do you need to create as a product to solve for that? Well, we need to have an inflatable, like expandable habitat. Okay. The last two problems with radiation, micrometer, it's like, again, how do you think about that problem? Well, it turns out if you can use the resources on the moon and make not just bricks, but all kinds of material using the resources on the moon. Bricks are just the first step to shield the habitat so that you have an igloo like structure where you have the inflatable in the middle and you got the bricks placed around it like an igloo that will protect you from the radiation from outer space and also the potential for micrometeorites on the moon. And so what we're like is, okay, we want to open up this whole tile. Like we have to actually prove that this stuff works on the moon and also on earth along the way. But more importantly, it's very visceral. We have proof that this functions on the moon. It's like it's legit. And so that's actually why how we ended up doing this milestone path. That's later on a white paper. Let's let's build a brick on the moon and let's end about way to what can expand.

SPEAKER_161: I'm showing on the screen here for those of you who are not watching and you're listening. You can go to GRU space or GRU dot space.

SPEAKER_78: GRU dot space is the domain. And you've got this really nice timeline here. You know, it starts with, hey, you get your first lunar systems there and you test making the bricks. Then you have this cave base, very basic dome. Then you have the first lunar hotel and you're seeing the bricks go around it.

Chamath Palihapitiya: And then you have picked an architecture style that is, I would say, neo-Greek Lucas Star Wars.

SPEAKER_172: Yeah, it's got a Death Star. It's like retrofuturism. It's got a Death Star vibe. Death Star. Yeah.

SPEAKER_173: No, I think this is New Republic style, actually. Death Star would be a little more military.

SPEAKER_178: The cave one looks like a Death Star. Yes. Yeah. The cave one definitely has Death Star as. This one, you're right. It's more like Naboo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_181: This is Naboo. This is Prince Amidala.

SPEAKER_183: This is Renaissance, which, by the way, Lucas, there's a building you pass by in Marin that's like a civic center or something. And you see it when you're going north, it's on the right.

SPEAKER_38: When you're going south to the Golden Gate Bridge, it's to your left. You can barely see. But that's where he got that Nobu architecture style from. Lam will pull it up in a second here. One of the producers will.

SPEAKER_185: But talk to me about picking the style of what this would look like. Because that does not seem the most utilitarian, the most basic, efficient. You're doing some flourishes there. You're making it look elegant and interesting and sci-fi and, dare I say, inspiring.

SPEAKER_38: By the way, here's that building. What is that building called, Lam?

SPEAKER_00: I believe this is the Marin County Civic Center. Yes.

SPEAKER_189: Yes. I mean, it's stunning. San Rafael. San Rafael. Pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_190: Is this the one that was Frank Lloyd Wright or am I crazy?

SPEAKER_193: I believe it was. Yes, I am correct. This was designed by the great architect, Frank Lloyd Wright.

SPEAKER_195: All right. Let me pat Lon on the back here. Very good.

SPEAKER_09: So talk to me about the aesthetics here. Because you're asking people to put down a million-dollar deposit to visit the moon, to own a moon condo. What do you get for a million bucks here?

SPEAKER_116: Yeah. So, okay, two things. First of all, the style. You basically got to bang on. When we thought about the style, we got to think about, zoom out from our own little sliver of 80 years or maybe longer of life in this universe. When thousands of years later, we look back at the first structure, man-made structure on the moon. It has to be pretty sick. It has to be sick. It would be a good benchmark. It is like the first bastion of human's mark on the moon. I mean, that is really exciting. And so the thought process is like, you know, obviously looking at the wonders of the world that have already existed, but also like what would something that looking back, right, our great, great, great, great grandkids would be like, whoa, like, yeah, like my ancestors worked on this shit.

SPEAKER_206: Like the Acropolis, the Parthenon. Exactly.

SPEAKER_116: Right. Yeah. So it was a bit of Greco futurism. And actually, it was a trip I did when I was still at Berkeley as a student there. I went to Palace of Fine Arts with my parents. And it was like, I was just like, whoa, like, imagine this on the moon. This is before it grew started. But that was what, ironically, my mom is an architect and she thought the design was shit. I still think it's good. But we got featured in architecture magazines. I was like, see, check it out. Love it.

SPEAKER_13: I love it. Now, what psychedelic were you on? You were on psilocybin or DMT when you came on with this idea when you were at Berkeley.

SPEAKER_213: I kid, I kid. But talk to us about the million dollar deposit.

SPEAKER_116: And so, yeah, about that. So basically, the thought process behind this as well was with, okay, in order to ensure that people have a spot here, right, how should we work this out? We studied Virgin Galactic. We studied Blue Origin. We also studied ones that didn't work so well. One important thing is that we design, A, they have to be fully refundable, right? It's only fair that way. But more importantly, this is a way so that people can reserve their spot in advance prior to the hotel being opening. Frankly, a big piece of this, of like, why do people do space tours? Right. Let's think about that. Why do people even want to do something as crazy as this? And it's not for everyone. Like, let's be clear. It's not for everyone. One of the biggest things is because they've experienced everything that can be done on Earth, that they want to do something greater. They want to feel like they're a part of something even bigger than themselves. It's a legacy build. And so it's an opportunity for people to be a part of that. One of the nice things that we've actually are going to start to offer is that our payload that's going to the lunar surface, we're obviously making a brick on the moon, but there are opportunities for people to etch their name of the company on the payload that goes to the moon. They'll be there forever.

SPEAKER_223: Oh, a little marketing, a little, little, little brick right there.

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SPEAKER_225: I don't know if you can see, Jason, your name is etched into this brick. Oh, is it really? It's a little too small.

SPEAKER_69: I'm going to have Slavs zoom in here for a second so you can see, but they have etched

SPEAKER_227: Jason Calacanis into this.

SPEAKER_161: I love this. Leo Laporte, when he did the Twit Brickhouse, his concept was you for, I don't know if it's a hundred bucks or 500 bucks, you could support independent media like This Week in Tech, Twit, and you could buy a brick in the Brickhouse.

SPEAKER_60: And then when you came to visit the Brickhouse, you could see your brick. Yeah. It was a really genius idea. Yeah. Look at GRU.

SPEAKER_232: Yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_60: All right. And so you're going to keep these deposits. You get the interest on, you put them in a nice five, 6% interest-bearing account.

SPEAKER_78: You sweep the interest. That's great. Fair enough. And then I get, what am I getting for my million dollars?

SPEAKER_183: Is it like I get to stay in a hotel for one night, 10 nights? Do I own a piece of it? What do you want to be on the moon for 10 days?

SPEAKER_234: What are you going to do up there?

SPEAKER_183: I mean, if I took the time to go and took the risk. Yeah. I want to get a full.

SPEAKER_237: No, I mean, I don't think. That's a good question. Jason, would you want to go to the moon?

SPEAKER_38: I'm going. I'm going to go. Right. Well, a friend of mine's got a rocket ship company and we talked about it. So I think when he goes up, you know, if he wants to have a couple of his mates with him, I might get a, I might get a shot at that.

SPEAKER_185: So when he, when he thinks it's okay to go up, that's maybe when I would decide it's okay to go up. But I don't want to, you know, I got three daughters. So I think the power move is to wait until, yeah, they've done. Yeah. I think maybe if there's been like a hundred trips to the moon or something.

SPEAKER_19: Yeah. You don't want to do the tight and submersible first trip. Yeah.

SPEAKER_175: You want to wait for like a hundred trips. Then it's like, okay.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Well, it's interesting. You bring that up, Lon. It's, there are people who want adventures, who have enough money to kill themselves.

SPEAKER_66: We call it toxic wealth in Silicon Valley where people, you know, go buy some hyper sports car and cause they made a little bit of money and then they do crazy stuff like the billionaire who his son didn't want to tragically go on this thing. He was nervous for a good reason, like trust your gut folks. Uh, and he went anyway and they were thrill seeking because they had the money to do thrill seeking stuff. This has to be safe and it will be safe.

SPEAKER_39: Nobody's going to take crazy risks doing this, but there will be some implied risk. You can just do the statistics of the number of astronauts that have died in space.

SPEAKER_60: It's, it's, um, it's, I think it's low single digits. Uh, so, you know, if you were playing poker hand, it would be like having, I don't know,

Chamath Palihapitiya: you flop a set of aces and somebody runner runners you and it's quads or something.

SPEAKER_18: We remember, I mean, there have been, there have been few enough that like you, everybody knows the challenger exactly. Or like Apollo 13, they, we, we rescued those guys, but it's infamous the times when things

SPEAKER_21: have gone famously wrong.

SPEAKER_248: I mean, I guess, I guess that's why it's important to test.

SPEAKER_21: Well, right. Right.

SPEAKER_00: I guess my question is for, for grew, uh, and, and even for you, Jason. I mean, we're really talking about, are we talking about the moon itself as a destination

SPEAKER_19: or we're really thinking about the moon is like the, the gateway to the cosmos, right? Like the goal is we've got to be permanently on the moon so that we can go to Mars and beyond. Is that my, am I correct here?

SPEAKER_116: Yeah. So the vision is like, again, the moon is just a stepping stone. Right. Right. But again, the moon holds out. And I love it when people were like, wait, so the moon holds out just the first step. Like that's fucking crazy. Like it seems like. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_254: But no, right.

SPEAKER_116: Family show. It really is the first step. We have to go to Mars, right? That is humans have never left the system of space is in our destiny. It's to have humans living on Mars. Right. And we cannot have reasonably speaking, have people living on Mars. If we are dependent on resources from earth the entire time. Yet in local core at some point has to be severed. Right. And so the only way to do that is can we develop the technology and understanding of systems so that we can use the resources on not just the moon, but on Mars for this future to happen.

SPEAKER_122: Right.

SPEAKER_213: So that's the end state. Yeah. We got, I think we have, you know, 20 or 30 years of moon work to do lawn for.

SPEAKER_78: Yeah.

SPEAKER_257: And that was a lot.

SPEAKER_78: Well, I mean, all of, all we have right now is the space station as an equivalent, but

Chamath Palihapitiya: the space station, you know, has taught us over, you know, 50 years, how human bodies and food and, you know, medicine and, you know, all kinds of things work using the loo. These things all had to be figured out over the last 50 years. Congratulations. We're able to do it, but to be able to build stuff in space, man, that is a lot of work.

SPEAKER_265: Sure.

SPEAKER_39: And I'm really excited. Skylar, we wish you unlimited success in this incredibly positive, awesome endeavor.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Chances are slim, but we need crazy entrepreneurs to do all of these little stepping stones. And so brick by brick, we wish you great success.

SPEAKER_268: Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Alan. There's going to be startups on the moon one day.

SPEAKER_13: Which is nuts when you think about it. All this science, all this technology is really changing everything. And one of the things that I was able to change with technology over the last five years was dropping 40 pounds.

SPEAKER_78: Wow. That's my own moon. That was my moon landing.

SPEAKER_18: That was my moon shot.

SPEAKER_270: Could I get back in shape?

SPEAKER_19: Hey, Jacob, can you find that image Jason posted over the weekend of his new body? Yeah, the J Cal thirst trap. Can you find that for me while I'm co-hosting here? Showing off, showing off the impact.

SPEAKER_60: Well, that was at Cinque Terre, Cinque Terre, CT, the five towns or whatever it is. Oh, I don't know. In the ocean.

SPEAKER_279: I'm not well-traveled enough for this. I took this a couple of years ago and I was probably down 30 pounds and that one is sucking my gut in. Yeah, look at that. Look at that.

SPEAKER_78: Man, you compare that to the pictures my enemies posted me online. And I mean, this is the definition of a dad bod.

SPEAKER_38: You know, I'm old. I'm creaky. There's things that break once in a while. But I tell you what, you lose 40 pounds and all of a sudden my sciatica in my leg, my lower back pain, my shoulder pain, all this stuff, my snoring, my asthma.

SPEAKER_183: It went away, all the downstream things.

SPEAKER_38: So this summer I'll be posting a couple more thirst traps, x.com slash Jason. But in the meantime, if you want to join me on your journey, I highly recommend at least considering if you're more than I'd say 10, 20, 30 pounds overweight, which is like 60% of the country. The food system is conspiring against us. Work is conspiring against us, sitting at computers all day. You might need help. I needed help. I'm ashamed to say it, row.co slash twist, row.co slash twist.

SPEAKER_183: And you'll get to take their insurance, you get to use their insurance checker. And that's the first step. Now, if you don't have insurance, your insurance doesn't cover it.

SPEAKER_169: Don't worry. There's like all kinds of affordable versions now. I'm not sure where exactly it starts, but like low hundreds of dollars, I think, is the entry price now.

SPEAKER_00: The word, the word, the immediate word when these GLP ones were first available was, oh, it's so expensive. You're spending thousand dollars. The price has really come down considerably now. So if you want to check if your insurance covers it, go to row.co and try out their insurance checker. They'll let you know if your GLP ones are covered for you for free. You just submit your insurance card and they do the rest. Go to row.co slash twist for your free insurance check row.co slash twist.

SPEAKER_289: Yeah. And I mean, I'm looking at it right now. I mean, you're going to be able to get into this for like 150 bucks, 200 bucks.

SPEAKER_291: Just row.co understands what the mission is. They're trying to get everybody, everybody who wants access to this incredible technology access to a big story.

SPEAKER_00: We got to talk about the U.S. government is blocking access to Fable and Mythos, the advanced frontier clawed models. They're citing national security concerns. The U.S. Commerce Department has ordered Anthropic to suspend access to the advanced models to all foreign nationals. Now, the government just told Anthropic they're instituting export controls over these models. So no foreign nationals can use them because of concerns that you could theoretically jailbreak Mythos 5 out of Fable 5 and use it as a cyber weapon. Anthropic, however, responded by just shutting everyone out of Fable 5 and Mythos 5 entirely. They said to ensure compliance. So a lot a lot of back and forth over the weekend on on this, whose fault it is, what the implications are, Jason. So Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, he's been making a direct connection between this policy and the Pentagon's previous fight against Anthropic. His tweet three months ago, the Department of War kicked Anthropic A.I. out of the building forever. Every passing day proves that why that was the right move. Axios also today has reported on friction between the White House and the Anthropic team saying this is a contributing factor. Here's Axios. Anthropic failed to honor a recent cyber executive order, administration officials claim. And the company's purported failure to take the matter seriously led to its most powerful products being scrubbed from the Internet. And then here's an unnamed administration official. Everyone said Anthropic was a bad actor. Some of us said it was time to give them a chance. Now those people are questioning that they screwed us. So I'm interested in your take here, Jason. Do you agree with David Sachs that this doesn't really have anything to do with the previous fight against Anthropic? And it's a isolated situation where Anthropic just needs to do something to make Fable Five unjailbreakable?

SPEAKER_19: Or do you think this is continued bad blood between the administration and Anthropic and it's just coming out in another way or something else?

SPEAKER_105: Yeah, there's multiple things occurring at once here. So let's just call it what it is. Let's just be radically honest here. Sure.

SPEAKER_78: There is a beef between this company and their politics and the administration and their politics. Sure. If you look at all of the parades of CEOs coming to Washington, Steve, you know, Tim Cook, Michael Dow, you know, everybody.

SPEAKER_105: Sundar, Satya. Sundar, everybody's down. We've seen them all over there.

SPEAKER_78: Yeah. Jensen or whatever. There's one that's always been missing and that's Dario and Anthropic. The reason Anthropic has run the table on a lot of the talent in Silicon Valley is because they're liberals and Democrats and they are highly offended by the Trump administration. Right. They're diametrically opposed to it. You don't hear them too vocally saying it anymore for whatever reason. Maybe they don't want to dabble in politics. Maybe they don't want to draw any more heat. But if you were to look at and you were to talk to privately ten different people who work at Anthropic, nine out of ten would, you know, have concerns about the Trump administration. Last term, this term, everything in between.

SPEAKER_183: So it's easy enough to say they hate Trump. They hate Trump. They hate everything about this administration. OK, put that aside in your brain. They have a right to their political views. Now go to the Trump administration. You've gotten every single company to support Trump on various endeavors. And that's good. It's good for private sector, public sector to work together independent of that. Some people have said, you know what, I'm just going to put aside my concerns about Trump. We disagree with immigration policy, whether it's the border or H1Bs. I'm going to put all that aside.

SPEAKER_29: UFC fights in the back lawn of the White House, whatever your issues may be.

SPEAKER_183: Whatever your issue is, you're allowed to have it. This is America. Everybody gets their opinion. But this administration takes things personally and they're full contact. So we're seeing some full contact here. Pete is attacking Anthropic. They have it in for Anthropic. Now, put that aside.

SPEAKER_78: They got a beef going on and it's a political beef. If you look at OpenAI by contrast, Greg Brockman and his wife are the number one supporters of all these companies in terms of donations, with I think maybe the exception of Elon. I think they've put $25 million into Trump's. By the way, not popular inside of OpenAI either.

Chamath Palihapitiya: So the people who disagree with that decision and people will pick where they work based on the political beliefs of the leaders. If you worked at OpenAI, you were there because, hey, it was this open thing. But then when Sam transformed it and the team over there to this profit-making thing,

SPEAKER_78: a lot of those people went to Anthropic, in fact, right? Like the leadership, et cetera. And Andre Capapi.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Any tech company would pay him a king's ransom to come work for them. He gets to choose. He choose to Anthropic. So keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_78: The talent in Silicon Valley is by and large 80, 90% in my, maybe 80%, you know, appalled by Trump in his administration to this day.

SPEAKER_304: You don't feel like that's shifted over the, I feel like it used to be.

SPEAKER_09: It's shifted in leadership and I think people are burned out by it.

SPEAKER_305: Yeah, in the Obama era for sure. But today I feel like tech is sliding to the right.

SPEAKER_78: There's tech leadership making pragmatic decisions. And then there's the rank and file, who are developers, et cetera. They might also have issues with the left as well. But just, if you looked at their voting records and you look at like Democrat registration

Chamath Palihapitiya: versus Republican, it's still 80, 20, 90, 10.

SPEAKER_00: So you, you feel like this is overtly political that the Trump administration is giving. Well, it is.

SPEAKER_183: Pete Hanks says it's overtly political, right? So there's, there's a political level to this. And obviously Dario not showing up for any of these events is his political statement, right?

SPEAKER_09: So there's beef here. That's not my belief. That's just what the facts tell you. Now let's go to the reality of this model. The reality of this model, it's groundbreaking. People have voted with their dollars.

SPEAKER_183: Consumers are even switching to Claude. I'm starting to hear people who are in my circle, who are not in the industry, say they love Claude. Sure. Some say they love Perplexity and, you know, Grok and Gemini. But it's not OpenAI's only game now for consumers. Claude has the best product. Currently.

Chamath Palihapitiya: People could flip flop. And they're thoughtful about this. Now, you might say they're hyperbolic and their comms are terrible.

SPEAKER_78: And that's, that's all true as well. But the truth is, at the end of the day, they made the post powerful model. If I told you, and we'll just swap the names out here. Let's just take the names out. Gemini has created this model. And when they put it through their testing, their developers and their security team and the red team and the blue team, everybody went through it. And holy cow, we found so many exploits in open source software, in our own software, that we're just going to hold it for a couple of months. And we're going to give it to like 25 of our trusted partners, 50 of our trusted partners for a month and let them use it. And by the way, we're going to give them their tokens free or at a disk at our cost. We're going to give Mac cost tokens. Use as many as you want to just make sure that the low hanging fruit is cleaned up here. Just, you know, you'd be like, okay, it's pretty, pretty smart move, right? Yeah. That's a great move by Google. Yeah. That's thoughtful. They know this thing is powerful. And by the way, on the margins, we might be concerned with not just cyber warfare, which is software based. We also think like, hey, maybe somebody could use this to make a dirty bomb or maybe they could use it to. Sure. Well, biological was the, for one of the.

SPEAKER_29: Make biologics. Right. Biological weapons or do, you know, unpleasant genomic stuff or whatever. Yes.

SPEAKER_316: So we're also going to test that.

SPEAKER_265: And we're going to bring in some, you know, award winning, you know, notable biologists and people who've worked in the Wuhan lab or whatever these labs we funded globally.

SPEAKER_00: And I mean, Saks did point this out in his, in his tweet on it, which maybe we could bring up. It's in the docket. Yeah. Like the messaging from anthropic does seem off here. It is confusing from even the public's perspective.

SPEAKER_52: So let's hold on comms for a second.

SPEAKER_78: Okay. We'll get to comms in a moment. Let me just finish. Sure. My little analogy here. So you swap out a name.

SPEAKER_60: It's the same thing when you go to, when you talk about race, you know, oh, this person did this.

SPEAKER_78: And it was a black person, a white person, an Asian person, Indian person, a man, a woman, a trans person, whatever. Sometimes it's helpful for people logically to just swap those races, names, genders out to kind of get clarity on what happened and just think intellectually, honestly. So intellectually, honestly here, if Apple did this, if Microsoft did it, you'd say, okay, Microsoft.

SPEAKER_66: Yeah. You've got an important product. You've got a lot of surface area and windows or Google got a surface area and Android. Yeah. You should be really thoughtful about this.

SPEAKER_78: And then they said, you know, a couple of months later, hey, as the next phase of our rollout of Gemini, we're going to allow people who are logged in to use it.

SPEAKER_321: People who we have their credit card number and their IP address.

Chamath Palihapitiya: But as part of that 30 days, we're going to look for keywords and use AI to watch what you do. We're going to watch what you do and how you use it. It's a preliminary open, more open beta test.

SPEAKER_321: So we have the closed beta. Now we're going to open up the beta a little more, but just know we're going to read this.

SPEAKER_78: So don't put your personal health stuff in there or whatever. We're going to just look at every search. That's not a privacy issue. That's part of the rollout. It's being framed by people in the administration and other people who are Trump adjacent as, oh, my God, they're taking everybody's privacy. No, completely normal to say, hey, if you're going to use this tool, this is the monitoring phase. We're going to know how many bullets you fired.

Chamath Palihapitiya: We're going to give you the gun. But, you know, you've got to use it in the range, right? It's constrained. We're going to constrain it for another 30 days. And by the way, if you do something that triggers, you know, you're doing biological stuff, which I did on air. I asked it how to what are the components?

SPEAKER_09: What are the components of a nuclear weapon?

SPEAKER_19: You said not a nuclear weapon, but what are the components I would need to get together in order to build one? And it automatically took you down from fable to opus.

SPEAKER_78: Then I asked it, well, what are the regulations and rules we have in place for fertilizer bombs to avoid people getting in the wrong hands? And it was like when you watch it thinking, it's like, okay, this person wants to know the regulations.

SPEAKER_38: They're not trying to build a fertilizer bomb, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it gave me the answer. But also, again, it dropped me down. Yeah. Now, if I said, hey, Google said if you try to use it for something it thinks might be adjacent, it's just going to let you use version 4.8, not version 5.0.

SPEAKER_18: Right. And it did. It notified you.

SPEAKER_19: Like a lot of people were concerned about is, oh, it's going to downgrade you a model and then not tell you. It told you, hey, you're not using fable for this. We're going to send this query to opus instead.

SPEAKER_52: I think if you look at Anthropic's actions, we're going to get to their comms in a minute. Well. We've handled politics. Sure. We're going to get to comms.

SPEAKER_321: But just in terms of their actions, I would say these actions are of a good actor being thoughtful. Let me say that again for you. If Grok, XAI, Google, Microsoft, Apple, OpenAI, any of them did the same exact rollout, we would say thumbs up. Thank you for being considered. We don't need to regulate you because you're regulating yourself. And I have said over and over and over again, regulate yourself or the government will regulate you. Now, all the biased people who are in one camp or the other want to make this about something it's not. Safety regulation is job one for these language model creators. And they are creating it. Therefore, therefore, they should come up with what they think is the most safe way to roll it out. They don't need to have the government come in and tell them that because the government doesn't even understand the nuances of these products. So regulate thyself or thy product will get banned.

SPEAKER_00: There is one more thing that's action as opposed to comms.

SPEAKER_19: Now, there is disagreement about what specifically has happened or the narrative of it. But what what Sachs is saying in his tweet is that this this jailbreak was discovered.

SPEAKER_00: And we should talk more about where the that information came from as well. This this jailbreak was uncovered this way to get fable five to turn into basically mythos. Take away the guardrails that kept fable five safe. Yes. And so the government then apparently, according to David Sachs, went to Anthropic and said, hey, we're very worried about this jailbreak. We don't want bad actors, rogue actors overseas to be able to, you know, it's a threat to our national security. If they can use mythos five, what are we going to do about this? And they said, Anthropic came back to them and said, it's not really a big deal. We've looked into it. We don't. They sort of waived, waived these concerns. According to Sachs. According to David Sachs. I'm putting all this. This is according to David Sachs. That's his argument. And what other people have said is that the notification to the government about this potential jailbreak came from Anthropic's competitors. Amazon CEO Andy Jassy is named by name. He was one of the people that flagged this jailbreak to the Trump administration.

SPEAKER_18: Wait, doesn't he own 10 percent of Anthropic? Yes. But like there there's a it's conspiratorial.

SPEAKER_331: So they're not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: It's a conspiracy theory forming that this is other A.I. companies sandbagging their main competition, getting this model taken down so that other people can't use it.

SPEAKER_18: I just want to get your thoughts on that before we move on.

SPEAKER_78: So let's take the politics out of it and the communications out of it again, just to look at what occurred. Right. If one of your partners, this is their top partner. Amazon hosts these models. Sure. Amazon provides compute. Amazon owns this company. They're not trying to sandbag. I don't believe Anthropic. I am certain they told Dario about this before they told the government, probably.

SPEAKER_60: So when this all comes out and this is where like these narratives and all the spin and listen, some people are extraordinary communicators out there who can spin things in the nuances of them. But what are the chances the CEO of Amazon who owns double digit percentages?

SPEAKER_78: I don't know where it is now with dilution or whatever. And is one of the original backers of Anthropic didn't tell them that they found this. They probably are under an ethical and moral duty to let the government know if these kind of things could happen. So they probably think we have liability here if we don't tell the government, because there were probably internal comms from the security team at AWS, who probably has to provide compute and or provides the model to people via their services.

SPEAKER_38: They probably had an internal discussion and somebody said in Slack, oh, my God, I jail broke it. You can do whatever you want with it. You can ask it about dirty web bombs.

SPEAKER_183: You can ask it about bio weapons. And once that happens, ding, ding, ding, you cannot on ring the bell, right? Somebody has alerted. The entire team there that has to get escalated, who does it get escalated to now, if you don't escalate that up to the CEO, up to the CTO, CIO, the chief, the general counsel, if you don't escalate something of that importance.

SPEAKER_336: Now you're liable. Now you've got, you know, potentially literally blood on your hands. What if they know it's jailbroken?

SPEAKER_183: It comes out a week later that some terrorist organization jail breaks and does create a bioweapon. God forbid. Now, this is all fantasy. So that's what happened. I'm guessing inside of that. That's why. But now somebody on the other side of the aisle could say, oh, you know how we spin this? They got ratted out by their competitor who doesn't trust. Right. Well, but when in fact, it was just the fact that it was just the same thing.

SPEAKER_338: Well, but when in fact it was just the bell got rung.

SPEAKER_18: And yeah, I think now it's time to switch to comms because I feel like the one thing I don't understand and I don't often agree with David Sachs, but we we aligned on this point.

SPEAKER_00: Is that wouldn't you think anthropic would be the first ones upon hearing that it was possible to jailbreak fable and unleash this terrifying, dangerous model, which they themselves were the ones who started this narrative about mythos is so dangerous. Wouldn't you think they would be the most proactive ones like, well, we got to pull it until we can be sure we're the AI safety company. They might have. It seems weird that their position is this isn't a big deal. We should be allowed to use the money. And even I would have one last thing before I let you jump back in. It's in the dock and I pulled a screenshot. Anthropic is sort of advertising this situation. They're not trying to hide this at all. If you go log in right now and try to use the model. I took a screenshot. It has fable. They're grayed out. It's purposefully letting you know the government's not letting you use this right.

SPEAKER_48: Where does it say the government's not letting the government, but it just says like currently unavailable. Like they're they're advertising to you that you can.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Is that is that an information button that you can click on there or hover over? There's an eye next to currently unavailable. Yes.

SPEAKER_343: They, they, they have.

SPEAKER_17: And what is it? What does it show when you click it? Here, let me, I'll, I'll load up my screen. Whoever's driving. If you look where it's grayed out, there was an eye there.

SPEAKER_47: Oh, that's just a screenshot, but Jacob. Oh, it's a screenshot.

SPEAKER_19: Yeah. You can open your own Claude and show us what happens when you click that button. It's forever. Everybody's got it. No, just the info box above the search bar, Jake.

SPEAKER_317: See, see that. There you go.

SPEAKER_161: Here it is. Yeah. Okay. So it links to a statement on the U S government directive to suspend access to fable.

SPEAKER_78: So they are not hiding it there. This is quite the opposite. This is the cleanest thing you could do is to just let people know. Okay. So your question is to comms.

SPEAKER_18: Okay. I'm just saying, why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they be the most proactive one to pull the model until they could be sure it's safe? Why are they? They might have. Remember the last time?

Chamath Palihapitiya: Yeah. The. So this is the last time. You know, this is, you know, this is being played here by the administration. Similar game that the press uses. Hey, we need your comment in the next hour.

SPEAKER_78: Or we're going with the story. Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya: They keep bringing up that. It took an hour and five minutes or these guys didn't get back to me in the same day. think emil michael actually talked about like how they were concerned that it was taking an hour for

SPEAKER_78: a company to return the white house's call well you might need to talk to your general counsel first you might need to talk to your team and make sure you have your facts straight before you start talking to the government so that's completely reasonable so i think there's games

SPEAKER_09: manship happening there they obviously would have turned it off if it was jailbroken they turned it off and they limited it for those first two steps anyway they love turning it off that's their thing they love limiting access right so to the answer to your question is if they did know it was jailbreak they absolutely would have turned it off which leads me to believe in this crazy conspiracy thing that there's no grand conspiracy here there is no grand conspiracy

SPEAKER_78: here what happened was amazon's team found the vulnerability they told dario dario starts looking into it amazon says you know we got to tell the white house about this and then we need to tell national security because we've made that arrangement that we tell them when we find major vulnerabilities that could cause national security issues so they do that in parallel now

SPEAKER_38: while this is all happening in the same day all in the same day they're looking into it the white house says oh we didn't get a call back in an hour and five minutes or something i think was the quote like it was very specific like we you know they they waited an hour and seven minutes to call the white house back yeah well what if what if they just said to the white house give us an hour we're investigating and then they said maybe they thought hey we tried to jailbreak it we don't have evidence of this and they might have said but give us an hour we're going to go talk to amazon

SPEAKER_183: and figure out what they did so the white house has it in for dario dario and anthropic have it in for the white house and so they're all spinning this if you just look from first principles what anthropic has done i think if you put xai gemini microsoft in the same series of behaviors you would say great job thumbs up the white house would say thumbs up to elon sergey tim cook satya everybody they would say thumbs up great way to do it but when it's anthropic they're trying to figure out ways to you know um hit them with it now and they're trying to do damage i think i actually do think that because they never bent the knee i think that they are a vindictive yeah uh administration you see this in other things they do now dario has done no favors for himself with the comms the comms are terrible if you keep telling people that you're going to destroy half the jobs in the world don't be surprised when people take up arms and get violent don't be surprised when regulators show up don't be surprised when bernie sanders says i'm going to see 50 of the company i mean this one

SPEAKER_271: seems their cons trigger this this is someone seems directly like i i'm i'm looking at the politico it

SPEAKER_19: was an hour and 15 minutes by the way and then a rumor circulated that uh dario didn't get back to him because he was at some sort of wellness retreat but now anthropic is denying that that was true they're just saying it took a little time but here's here's the interesting paragraph so dario amade he in in these calls and this is from who this is from politico this is from politico

David Friedberg: uh over the political is that a biased publication on one side or the other or straight shooters

SPEAKER_00: if you ask people on the left they would say politico is hardcore right wing if you ask people

SPEAKER_19: on the right they would say politico is a bunch of commie socialists so i think they're pretty oh

SPEAKER_69: okay hated equally by both so maybe that means they're independent no no one no one would say politico

SPEAKER_00: is on their side i don't think anyway okay so they're they're claiming that dario behind the scenes is saying that there is no universal jailbreak and that they don't universal jail break was the term yeah anthropic in a blog post said no testers have been able to find a universal jailbreak a jailbreak method that can broadly bypass the model safeguards unblocking a wide range of cyber capabilities so so in these meetings with the white house the anthropic team is basically saying you've been misinformed there is no dangerous jailbreak we don't need to change the

SPEAKER_19: models the guardrails are safe and in place and the white house just doesn't believe them they believe

SPEAKER_16: this tipster instead all right well the truth will come out yeah we can't know who's right and who's

SPEAKER_60: wrong at this point i think my assessment you know is uh the most logical they're an incredibly

SPEAKER_78: thoughtful if not dramatic group at anthropic right they literally are the people who created the open ai mission and when the open ai mission was corrupted in their minds they started anthropic

Chamath Palihapitiya: to be the thoughtful frontier model and they're winning there have they have the best model so the most

SPEAKER_78: thoughtful concerned and you can interpret that as drama queens are also producing the best model

SPEAKER_183: running the table is what people say and then uh suddenly everybody's saying that they're bad actors and they don't want to limit access and you need to do a national security thing i guarantee you

SPEAKER_78: if you know pete heggs uh what's his last name hegseth hegseth yeah if p if p hegseth called them and said

Chamath Palihapitiya: hey we think this model is a national um you know national security risk would you pause it for uh 72

SPEAKER_78: hours while we collaborate they would do it they would love to do it instead they did this to damage

Chamath Palihapitiya: the company and or as retribution yeah as pete's quotes i mean do it the the broader implication of

SPEAKER_19: this we had a we had a question from uh from one of our viewers i believe it's daniel de missy

SPEAKER_00: uh please acknowledge jason we're on a dangerous path to a dystopian society if we start gaining model access based on demographics so do you do you okay hold on do you think this is your first step to

SPEAKER_19: some sort of more dangerous situation where the government now is reserving the right to decide which ai models we can use or do you think this is more of a one-off situation i i think it is a

SPEAKER_78: one-off situation they hit the panic button and they hit the panic button against the one tech ceo who will not bend the knee right so just put that in your mind just say it over and over again if this was gemini if this was microsoft same series of actions they would have just said hey can you turn the model off and let's work for a you know a week together to make sure it's not vulnerable and would that be okay with you they'd say sure but in a broader and i guarantee you

SPEAKER_52: dario would have said sure they came over the top with this right now there's the other part of this

SPEAKER_78: oh they get to decide no the government decided in this case dario decided to not release it early as a private company is allowed to do we live in a society where the private company gets to define what they release the government also as a backstop can stop that if they believe there's some imminent

Chamath Palihapitiya: danger that's what occurred here that means the system is working okay now if you limit access

SPEAKER_379: to the models which they're not doing they just the model's been turned off for everybody it's not like somebody has an advantage the government said for everybody the government said you have to turn

SPEAKER_19: it off for any foreign national and anthropics like we can't we don't have a way to do that where we can be sure nobody is so we just have to shut it off entirely the reason they did that

SPEAKER_78: is because they don't want to get caught making a mistake sure if it is these products are porous somebody can get an ip address in the us they can get a fake identity just like they do identity theft in the us so if they don't turn it off for everybody and then the russians or the chinese or the north koreans use one of their american spies or american stolen um identities which they have

SPEAKER_228: an infinite number to then go do something now claude and anthropic have broken the law in some major way yeah no i i think people are concerned less about that and more about the precedent like are we is this

SPEAKER_00: now saying we think the president has the right to shut off an ai model the president or the president

SPEAKER_18: which president well right that i mean this is what's important even if you're okay with donald trump

SPEAKER_00: and his team making this decision would people be okay with a future democratic like what if joe biden

SPEAKER_19: had been president or kamala harris was president and she decided to shut off access are we okay with the executive branch making these kinds of calls i think is the broader concern like a first investment

SPEAKER_66: sort of we have no we have no choice but to trust the executive branch that's been duly elected to push

SPEAKER_78: the panic button and to take a product off the market that they believe is a national security risk okay we have no choice the executive has to have that power what if this was uh you know somebody doing by uh bio research and they created you know cobit times 100. i think some people see these ai

SPEAKER_00: models as it's like almost like a freedom of speech issue like the government shouldn't have a role in saying which ai model you can use for which tasks temporarily they're temporary the difference here

SPEAKER_78: is they didn't shut off access to all ai models they're saying this one model has been jailbroken and the company has told us it's too dangerous to release we are gonna right ask them to turn it

SPEAKER_00: off for now or not let foreign nationals have it in the interest of changing the names or the concept slightly what if it was this model is too woke and we don't think it's appropriate so we're gonna shut it off that would be objectionable right you wouldn't be able to stop a model for that this power resides in national security okay i mean i i think this is the the larger i don't have any of these answers i just think this is the larger concern people well we're in uncharted territory

SPEAKER_161: we are straining to find the analogy of a time a private company created something so powerful the government had to intercede out of fear that it could be misused the only other time i have an

SPEAKER_228: example but you have an example of a bioweapon company where this happened but like there was an assault weapons ban for many years until it got reversed and like that wasn't done that's

SPEAKER_19: the government's how private companies can't make certain kinds of dangerous products that wasn't an

SPEAKER_78: emergency order like this no this was an emergency temporary order this is not like oh we're gonna have

SPEAKER_38: a whole democratic process over the number of bullets in a magazine this is like pushing the emergency

SPEAKER_183: button so in that context the only other time i can think of this happening was in iron man a fictional

SPEAKER_189: story where they're like hey wait can you have that suit tony stark the tony stark's not allowed to

SPEAKER_105: have his iron man suit correct right and like that's literally that's how fantastical this is being

SPEAKER_49: set up as so you know we'll be sitting here situation i think that's why people are so interested and then people are going like off the reservation about this they're just like i'm gonna just jump the

Chamath Palihapitiya: fence and go crazy um and just leave reality okay so now they're spying on us they're picking and choosing the winners and losers none of that's occurring no that's occurring the government said

SPEAKER_78: this is really dangerous will you turn it off for this number of people they say you know what we're going to be even more secure we're going to turn it off for everybody we'll get back to work on it

Chamath Palihapitiya: we'll release it by the way this is going to happen to gemini it's going to happen to grok it's going to happen to open ai it's going to happen over and over and over again i do think this is

SPEAKER_60: going to drive people to realize you cannot have a single point of failure i'm glad that's the key

SPEAKER_19: here i'm glad you got there that there's been a bunch of international outcry about this too that i didn't get into yet but now i will thank you for the beautiful segue uh so uh labor mp in the uk labor mp alistair karnes posted this week the most advanced ai model on the planet got switched

SPEAKER_00: off by a foreign government he argues that britain has some of the best ai talent in the world the country must jumpstart a homegrown ai industry to avoid this situation in the future uh echoed by canadian prime minister mark carney he flagged the risk of quote over reliance on certain models and

SPEAKER_19: has encouraged canadian tech companies to diversify the models that they're relying on so you're you're spot on that's what this is encouraging internationally is people are realizing we can't rely on just one company or just one model because it can go away yes and the chinese realize this and

SPEAKER_60: that's why they are supporting open source to catch up and then uh you know there's mistral in france

SPEAKER_161: there's other models manis um which started in china and then went to singapore i believe correct yes

SPEAKER_404: yeah so and now you know they're not allowed to leave china anymore because the chinese government's

SPEAKER_60: afraid of what we're seeing is this is this is a very powerful technology as predicted okay check

SPEAKER_78: um and one company does not have a monopoly on it yet anthropics is better but it's like 20 percent better so yes we're sitting here like uh you know getting all excited about the future here and oh my

Chamath Palihapitiya: god what does this mean downstream here's what it means downstream uh you can't have a single dependency on any technology whether it would be an oracle database and then that created my

SPEAKER_60: sequel and other alternatives that were open source nobody should have a single point of failure when you write this stuff it should be in a harness like open claw or we had the uh founder of um

SPEAKER_105: the new company's agent new permies quenelle from new research thank you my short-term memory is

SPEAKER_23: fried uh jeremy came on the program yeah jeffrey quiz quizelle yeah jeffrey came on with her me is

Chamath Palihapitiya: ermes can use any back-end language model that's what you have to do you have to take the harness you have to take control of the front end you know your data your skills your memory and then you have to just be able to route and that's what this is going to create dynamic routing the dynamic routing of your ai harness which includes memory which includes skills and and

SPEAKER_60: your prompts and your data and and the contacts window all that you have to own on your servers in your proprietary way yeah and then just be able to boop boop boop and we did this internally it's not

SPEAKER_05: hard folks we did it we're a bunch of podcasters and we set it up so it would use kimmy 2.5 or claude and we started with kimmy and kimmy was like okay it's not as good it's slow but you know for simple

SPEAKER_78: things it did work yeah i'd say open source is like nine months 12 months behind uh i think this latest

SPEAKER_60: mythos model and so that distance is you can feel that distance now but that distance closes it's kind

SPEAKER_161: of like you're a freshman in high school and there's a senior in high school it feels like you're incredibly different than you go to college a freshman in college and a senior in college doesn't feel

SPEAKER_78: very different then you go into the workforce and a 27 year and a 31 year old feel the exact same

SPEAKER_414: no difference right you're all just adults yeah this stuff as it matures it'll be the same kind

SPEAKER_78: of situation right now it seems like oh my god anthropic is so far ahead if anthropic service

SPEAKER_417: went down today everybody would just be on codex uh you know it's also all of the models are using

SPEAKER_19: the frontier models to like they're distilling them and that's how they're trading so every new generation builds on the generation that came before anyway tempest in a teapot all right fair enough

SPEAKER_38: tempest in a teapot being used for political uh machinations and uh anybody who's in one political party absolutely hates anthropic i know all these people they hate dario i think uh reed hoffman is the investor in anthropic yeah yeah uh just so they hate reed right so if you want to go one

SPEAKER_105: level deeper who hates reed hoffman most well republicans don't like him because he he funded all

SPEAKER_00: the lawsuits against trump yeah uh i believe reed hoffman's also uh also an open ai investor

SPEAKER_19: but he he's he's behind anthropic too he calls anthropic one of the good guys

SPEAKER_181: in a in a back and forth with david sacks i i'm really interested in what his ownership position

SPEAKER_102: is right now let me take a look yeah if he owns but one percent of that company

SPEAKER_50: uh his stake in anthropic he holds an indirect stake in anthropic through his position at a

SPEAKER_169: partner at the venture capital firm graylock partners correct so he if he's 25 of graylock and great because i think he co-founded it so if he's 25 of graylock and graylock owns uh 10 he owns 2.5

SPEAKER_365: if it owns one percent he owns 25 basis points in other words he's worth billions to tens of billions

SPEAKER_66: of dollars based on his ownership there so that's the tribalism most people don't know the tribal history here if you go a little bit lower take the paypal mafia read over here all the other members

SPEAKER_265: of the uh paypal mafia on the other side and it is um there's some long-standing grudges here there's

SPEAKER_60: some beef there's a lot of grudges a lot of beef and there's beef like two layers down and you know what silicon valley people really get beefed about is like another person getting richer than them or having you know a stake in one of these companies so it is absolutely tweaking for republicans and

SPEAKER_78: the trump camp that anthropic is kicking everybody else's ass ah okay that is ultimately tweaking for

Chamath Palihapitiya: them and that reid hoffman's going to become worth tens of billions of dollars not just a billionaire but tens of billions because it's that's ultimately tweaking they have the pitchforks out for this company in a major way the company's not doing itself any favors either so here we are yeah i feel like if you

SPEAKER_00: are selling yourself as you're the ai safety company you're the people that are so like

SPEAKER_19: as soon as there's the whiff of this model might be dangerous you got it you get to be like ah it's not that big of a deal like that feels contradictory i don't believe that part of the story i don't

SPEAKER_09: believe that part of the story where he dismissed it because he doesn't dismiss anything i mean that's

SPEAKER_78: what and he overreacted all right he overreacted to their request their request was turned off for non-nationals he said i turn it off for everybody he's over delivering on his conservative nature and so there's nobody in the ai space more conservative and thoughtful about security than anthropic

SPEAKER_09: they're the most just based on this is not my opinion this is just based on the the behavior he wouldn't release the model but to 50 partners who were uh testing it for security then he released it in a very thoughtful way we had limited access it was monitoring every use then when they told him turn it off for non-nationals he said okay i'll turn it off for everybody right well i mean

SPEAKER_29: the the counter argument would be that that's it's more marketing it's that i'm going to ban it for

SPEAKER_50: now you're playing 40 it's going to ban it for everybody it's so powerful it's so dangerous like no one well now we're back at 40 chess but yeah i don't know i mean i don't know the answer if the

SPEAKER_183: government shut it down because amazon told them it was too powerful then the government and amazon agree it's too powerful yeah so are they both making it up now this is what i'm saying is like there's so much hand-wringing right here it's when you just look at the basic facts it's

SPEAKER_29: impossible to know who's being motivated by what at this point we we can we can only get there are

Chamath Palihapitiya: some basic facts and the basic facts are it is very powerful okay now is um uh nikesh the head of palo

SPEAKER_60: alto networks who said at the liquidity summit that they found a ton of yeah no it's not security

SPEAKER_00: plus is he in this grand conspiracy it's not in doubt that it's a very powerful and advanced frontier model i think the thing that is mostly in doubt is has it legitimately been jailbroken to where you can use mythos five powers through fable five that we don't really anthropic is saying no the government and

SPEAKER_228: amazon are saying yes we don't have amazon says yes then they did succeed they did succeed there's no

SPEAKER_321: why would amazon do this to their a company they own a hundred billion dollar position in it has to

SPEAKER_09: be true i don't have a good answer for that i mean unless we're living in some three days of the condor

SPEAKER_18: this is like might be it's just like three billion days of the condor yeah three billion parameters of the condor all right let's keep moving all right do you want to do the 5k bounty announcement yes we have to do this people are starting to think i'm not going to pay yes no we're getting we're getting

SPEAKER_228: questions in the dms about it so i'm gonna get skewered man i want to ship this money out all right so i i have pre-recorded demos so we're we can't fail this time just a quick reminder for

SPEAKER_00: the audience we asked for a real-time podcast companion that listens live to twist recordings or other podcasts but we'd like it for our show and reacts in real time as the show plays specifically originally we asked for all kinds of different producer voices then we sort of honed it down we mostly want to focus on fact checking so here i'm going to bring up the first uh finalist we've got three finalists competing today for the grand prize 5k uh the first one this comes from a company called lemon slice ai this is an app called couch verse now what i like about this one and i'll have jacob start playing it in just a moment uh what i like about this one is it's not just a sort of a box that comes up with text they actually came up with animated avatar characters you'll see there is an alien who's their fact checker and then there is a cat themed goth girl who is sort of the snarky

SPEAKER_19: troll uh and this one the other cool thing about uh couch verse it's just a chrome plug-in so you could just go set it up as a chrome extension and then use it directly in your browser on any video that you're watching very easy to use jacob hit the play button let's watch the demo so here yeah you can see i'm i showed you this is me installing the plug-in and then here i'm about to click it on

SPEAKER_461: our previous episode runs companies autonomously falsia is an ai that builds and runs your company

SPEAKER_463: as you sleep building the product fixing the bugs running support it's alien whatever they're about

SPEAKER_465: to commit to on tape yeah i'm taking notes it's cat girl i had better things to do but apparently

SPEAKER_469: this is happening now the true milestone was a number of times long thing like the 1998 damler

SPEAKER_471: chrysler merger perhaps beaten down and got back up i have never seen an entrepreneur more resilient than elon musk he when he gets kicked you know he's got grit he's got a work ethic he's got a stamina

SPEAKER_78: that entrepreneurial grit code for debt all right i got it there you go okay um i've got a couple observations about this one sure creativity great it's obviously listening in real time yes i don't like voice over voice that's like that is problem i'd rather just have it be giving me the bullets but

SPEAKER_17: well executed simplicity ease of use ease of use is like a 10. ease of use is a 10 out of 10. this was

SPEAKER_19: the easiest one to set up by far and it just works right in your browser you don't have to do any thoughtfulness or set up at all uh and it'll it'll come give it 10 out of 10 for easiness we both do

Chamath Palihapitiya: yes now in terms of um the actual value i give it like a 4 out of 10 because the it's not giving me the value i want i just want to see it bang bang bang bang bang but for creativity i also give it like an eight or nine i could see this working if the characters were like small in the corner and

SPEAKER_78: it paused uh to give its commentary all right so that could be more like uh mystery science theater so

SPEAKER_00: overall i'm going to give this one a 7.5 yeah i mean i think the one big thing that i was that that i felt like on this is the the the commentary is just never really that useful it is like it's too tossed off it's it's repetitive a little bit i feel like it's maybe the ai model that this is running on is just not as sharp as it should be so in terms of the experience i really like this one

SPEAKER_19: in terms of the actual practicality of would this be useful to have on during your live stream i don't

SPEAKER_105: i don't know it's sort of in the middle not yet not yet but i just i think a couple of tweaks this thing could be like really amazing so great job yeah so uh our next contender this is convo lens

SPEAKER_00: by beau bratton uh this is an app that you actually have to download and set up on your computer uh it is i have to admit it's a little bit cumbersome to set up it's a little bit confusing of all three this was the one that took me the most time to set up but we'll we'll let you take a look at how it works once it's actually working uh so jacob hit hit play on this demo um and you can see the first thing you do here after you've got the app installed is you actually talk to the ai and you give it a little bit of context about the show oh the other thing i should mention here this one only works for live broadcast you're sort of making a podcast along with it as opposed to having it listen in on

SPEAKER_19: a podcast that your other is making so to start off i tell the ai in this case i told it i'm just going to read you a news story please comment along my name is lon and then it goes okay it's got all

SPEAKER_485: of the has hit an ipo the rocket and ai company now known as spcx will sell more than 555 million

SPEAKER_488: shares starting on friday so it's just me reading a news story for friday five dollars a share the total

SPEAKER_485: raise they're looking for is 75 billion at a valuation of over 1.77 trillion elon another

SPEAKER_00: downside here it takes a little while this one this one it's not instant real time like we were hoping it's a little bit slow but you're gonna see it's got a very interesting take yeah because you've been talking for a minute now right no feedback yet it's still listening in terms of the feedback what's interesting that convalence does is it's really not so much fact checking it's turning what i say into presentation slides oh my god but it's doing it in a pretty interesting and thoughtful way i mean

SPEAKER_52: i didn't ask for that and it's stunning look at that it just built a slide the largest tech ipo in history 75 billion dollar total capital raised it's totally that's fantastic it's completely accurate

SPEAKER_00: i fact checked the slides that it makes uh so here you can see i'm done reading you can keep the video playing i wanted to see it keeps going so it's it's playing catch up right now because i'm done reading the news story but it's going to make a second slide here so you can imagine not exactly what we asked for but but you can obviously see the value of this product it's making a live presentation out of your show as you're doing your show this is a different product i love this product

SPEAKER_52: i might back this startup this is it's a i'm giving a talk at stanford and it may instead of me

SPEAKER_499: preparing slides i just read from my notes and it makes dynamic slides dynamic slides as you're talking

Chamath Palihapitiya: i want to try this when i'm at founder university in japan i do a q a session yeah when we do a q a session if i said you know there was a startup uber and i invested in it and then it did this and then there was this company and then i missed this investment in twitter it made a slide like jason's

SPEAKER_183: biggest misses jason's biggest hits and what i saw in each one of them and it did that in real time that provides massive value nobody has to do notes beautiful yeah on the screen and think

SPEAKER_00: about that session i had with the ai before i started you could tell it anything you could give it design custom design features i want the slides to focus on this kind of information make

SPEAKER_18: it look like steve jobs keynote slides or you know put a chart on this one if i ever mentioned

SPEAKER_00: comparative numbers make a chart you could give it any of those kinds of directions so a very

SPEAKER_49: interesting program there i i love it i mean i'm gonna say both of these would be startups that i

SPEAKER_78: would be willing to back i think now there's a lot that goes into backing a startup like you have to have founders who are capable of not quitting yeah building a team and other things but if a if a founding team came to me with either of these ideas and said hey can we get 25k you know to just incorporating it going or can i get 125k and come to the accelerator i'd be like yeah this is pretty compelling let me talk let me have you pitch the team my great job my immediate thought on

SPEAKER_19: convolence was like we gamma should just buy this right like why like gamma this should be a feature

SPEAKER_228: in gamma that i can just do my presentation live and gamma builds the the slides for maybe plod buys

SPEAKER_38: these guys and when i get one of my templates in plod because i always like to applaud plod maybe one of

SPEAKER_169: my templates is build a slide deck or build info or actually i would say build infographics yeah real there was this infographics yeah yeah real-time infographics there was this other interesting thing where an artist you could hire an artist to come to a show and they would draw yeah on a giant panel each speaker it was a live artistic interpretation of what you learn that day right and it was really cool somebody go find that and we'll pull it up later okay hit me with number

SPEAKER_18: three all right third and final uh these are in no particular order folks our third and final finalist uh ricky rivas and my ai sidecast so another cool one does not have a lot of uh complicated setup it's

SPEAKER_00: a very minimalist sort of interface less is more the transcriptions are accurate and we found jacob and i both found the fact checks on this one pretty pretty darn insightful so jacob hit play let us take a look this is my ai sidecast and this one it works anything it's just listening to a tab in your chrome so it could be a live show pre-recorded anything the blog post on thursday uh they said

SPEAKER_18: they want to slow down global ai development an odd thing for anthropic to say what yeah their heads of internal research and policy wrote that slowing down the pace of global ai development would and i'm quoting likely be a good thing your photos from bouchon i'm very jealous yeah i'll take it it's

SPEAKER_17: incredible anyway i'm a bit exhausted i saw this go by my twitter feed so here you can see if you look

SPEAKER_18: in the upper right on your screen there yeah i'm i'm actually turning on he's got more personalities he's got a fact checker in there he's got a roaster yeah okay where are the facts so yeah so that the

SPEAKER_00: biggest thing we're going to point out here is there have not been any fact checks yet out of everything that i've said if you keep the the video playing you can see i added the roaster and here we go

SPEAKER_198: they're more here we have one yeah here we have one here bernie sanders wants to

SPEAKER_66: seize 50 of the equity in anthropic that's right sanders proposed the ai sovereign wealth fund act a

SPEAKER_161: one-time 50 equity tax on major ai firms including anthropic open ai and xai payable stock not cash

Chamath Palihapitiya: one source found amazing that's it this is what i wanted yeah that's the winner number three is the

SPEAKER_52: winner yes the other two are the runners up yes jake jacob and i agree with me yeah jacob and i both

SPEAKER_00: had this selected as our number one i think for exactly what you said it's it's what we asked for very specifically it's it's pretty quick like it it responds with facts right away and i like that it has an add-on of you can also get roasted you can also get a really clean transcript you can also get just sort of like notes and accompanying it's it's sort of broad enough and it thought of everything

SPEAKER_39: this has been incredible congratulations to the winners um if a winner doesn't claim their pro

SPEAKER_522: i'm declaring the third one oh okay it's first place god agreeing with youtube and then i'm

SPEAKER_78: going to give the other two the honorable mentions great um and i think i'm going to encourage them to all keep pulling on the thread here that there is a business here in this uh that people would pay for i like all of them uh i'd love to meet the developers i want to hire a full-time developer to work on this with me as a company um so i don't know if this is a great way for us to source talent uh because you know i have this annotated project that i want to do yes that's our next bounty look

SPEAKER_102: out for that one so um what would be a fair way to do this first prize 3k the either the second and

SPEAKER_169: third or the two honorable mentions one k each is that reasonable i think that sounds very fair so

SPEAKER_19: ricky rivas congratulations you've won 3k we'll be in touch uh i know we i know we've got him on x so we'll find him and lemon slice ai and bow a thousand dollars each congratulations to you guys as well

SPEAKER_527: wow look at that dude what he goes crazy um here's what i'd like to do as well um if okay when we give

SPEAKER_60: prizes like this you got to pay taxes uh to the best of my knowledge yes so we're probably going to need

SPEAKER_514: to get you to fill out like a little tax form because it's over 600 i think we'll put him in touch

SPEAKER_78: with heidi she'll figure it out so yeah we'll figure it out um we'll send it to you and then um it's all open source so great uh you guys uh open sourced it and if you build it further you own it you know i'm not taking any claim to ownership here um but i really like it if i hope they join us for the annotated project as well and do that bounty next we'll probably take like a month or two to

SPEAKER_39: run through that one and do the similar process but even better i love this bounty program because it's

Chamath Palihapitiya: fun it shows the creativity we get to give feedback on it and uh if you don't claim your prize i will either rotate it into a future bounty or i'll donate it to the charity of your choice as long as

SPEAKER_146: it's not something crazy like just pick something yeah normal charity so this week i don't want

SPEAKER_412: anybody to think i rug did i rug pull anybody lawn or did i do this in a front fair manner i think we

SPEAKER_00: did this in a perfectly fair it took us a little while it took us longer than i think we'd hoped it was going to take us but a lot of people entered we had to install and check out a lot of apps we wanted to be thorough and very fair not just give it to the first good one that we saw but take a holistic view so yeah i think we'll take a little bit longer and you can go to this week at startups.com slash bounty if you want to keep an eye on the active bounties that we're looking for and and jump

SPEAKER_19: in uh and yeah the next one that we want to do is for this annotated app i will uh give you a little

SPEAKER_00: taste here annotated.com it's an extension for clipping and reacting to content from any website so you see some text you see some audio there's some video that you want so users can annotate any piece of content like that it then creates a landing page with a link to a news story or the post and then people can react with that annotation on that landing page so you know think of sort of a variation on something like reddit where you're creating a topic that then becomes a whole thread that people can comment on but instead of it just being you type into reddit you're sort of taking a piece of

SPEAKER_19: content from elsewhere on the web and that is jump-starting the conversation i was saying before jason this reminds me a lot of an old school service called delicious that i used to love many many years ago uh which was also kind of a similar kind of like find a quote or a good blog post and then you pull it in bookmark it and then other people can see what you've bookmarked and

SPEAKER_21: comment on it this is sort of the next level of that i think yeah i'm really excited about this

SPEAKER_169: because i bought annotated.com i think 20 years ago for 30 or 40k and that was going to be my next startup

SPEAKER_78: but i went with mahalo and said so uh my concept here is that we lose a lot of the uh this is like cruft and like the dead web you know like things die and so what i want to have happen here i'm

Chamath Palihapitiya: just going to unpack annotated a little bit if i may please you're on a new york times story just came out it's controversial you're the subject of that story right you highlight your quote and then you reply and say i didn't say this or i said this but they left out the second thing here's my

SPEAKER_78: screenshot of what i actually said to that person and now you have this permanent object and i'm not including blockchain in this but a permanent object so that if they go change the quote like let's say in that new york times story or they got a fact wrong and you fact checked it and you put it there that object exists forever as a moment in time let's say there's a video

SPEAKER_60: and it is the promo video for this new product that's coming out right and you say i want it or

SPEAKER_78: even better let's say joe rogan has somebody on talking about the um somebody's talking about the

Chamath Palihapitiya: covid virus you know in the height of the mania right and they say something that is incredibly prescient prescient and they got it right like they nailed it right like the the clip of hey it's the wuhan virology lab and the wuhan virus it's in the name like who was that that made that john stewart yes you take that john stewart clip you do it you say hey look at he was proven right here's all the facts right so and then underneath it people could comment and you can have like a debate and then you might have 50 different people comment on that same object the object is the url but we will take the you know let's say up to 30 seconds of the original video we'll downgrade it to like lower so you can do fair use it is fair use to use other people's content if you're doing commentary so i could take you know anything a song um a book yeah and as long as i don't take the whole book i just take a small portion the enough for me to do the commentary that would be fair and it's

SPEAKER_19: the linking back i think like we one thing we do all the time on our twitter account is just pull like

SPEAKER_00: if i see a really good quote in a another podcast or somebody else's video i'll just take a 30 second you know segment just the quote i liked and we'll share that but then the follow-up tweet is always

SPEAKER_47: here's where to go to watch the entire yes interview as long as you're doing that i don't think people

SPEAKER_78: get upset i used to want people to get permission before they clipped i've changed my position on it if you do commentary that's fair use if you're taking like if it was a our podcast and you take and all you do is rip 12 clips which like some pod clips company was doing that and i had to stop them because it was like it's the whole episode right and you're the way they were putting it you never

SPEAKER_60: had to go back and watch ours so we don't even know people watching it but if you do a small clip we have a watermark now i put the watermark on all in in this week and start up now everybody's

SPEAKER_78: now done that and the rules on twitter nikita has said hey if you crop out the watermark that i'm going to suspend your account or take you out of the yeah take you out of the creators

SPEAKER_169: program is i think what he's doing actually he doesn't suspend the guy it takes them out of the creators program if they do it over and over they might just but i mean i do this on our

SPEAKER_00: account all the time and nine times out of ten the original podcaster reshares or likes or leaves a comment on our video because they recognize that we're sending people back to them we're raising

SPEAKER_19: awareness of the show that they're doing and the great content that they're making so nobody yeah

SPEAKER_78: i don't think anybody have to really object now the fact checker you know podcast companion that was like a project i wanted to see in the world but annotated as a company i want to see in the world and i may form a company out of this so whatever you do in this bounty consider your ideas public domain open source nobody owns them i don't own them you don't own them it's just open source anybody can fork it and do whatever they want that's the rules of this contest sure now i might in the future incorporate

Chamath Palihapitiya: some of those ideas start from scratch fire up another open source project or make it proprietary and make this into a company so just you know this is my way of providing a bounty for two reasons one

SPEAKER_78: it's fun for the show uh and two i might find a team a founding team who might i might be able to fund to actually make this into a real world product inside a venture capital firm i'm allowed to in our documents incubate companies so i'm allowed to create a company and incubate it which uh sacks did at craft famously or the snowflake i think snowflake came out of that and crafted his uh ai version of slack anyway there's all different um ways you could do this as a venture capital if your documentation says you could incubate a company and when you do that the holding company the venture

Chamath Palihapitiya: firm gets like 50 ownership you might give the team 50 ownership that you hire eventually

SPEAKER_78: you know the founders and the and the team like stock option pool and then you would give your investors who underwrote it let's say you pick a 10 million dollar valuation and the venture firm incubated it and they spent a million dollars in venture capital from your lps on it they get i don't know 10 or 15 maybe give them a little kicker you give them first bite of the apple kind

SPEAKER_169: of thing sure and lps are cool with that you just can't do it over and over again and like not have a winner or like you know make it unfair so it has to be has to feel fair to lps but that's

SPEAKER_78: a new thing venture capital firms are going to be doing more and more of i predict and i'm going to be when we do launch fund five uh in first quarter of next year it's one of the things i'm going to like earmark 20 of the dollars 10 of the dollar something like that for incubated ones because we often find a team and we have an idea and we want something to exist in the world so we might it might be a way for us to manifest good ideas that we come up with here on the show and uh you know that the world needs to we're full of good ideas here on the show we are starting our associate and training program and five amazing associates starting two or three of them are going to work with lawn doing research and producing the show here as we um you know get the word out and we train them up we should probably deputize because i want to have this concept of one producer per one episode a show so we have four shows going out a week three this week and start us monday wednesday friday and then we have this weekend which tapes on tuesday drops on wednesday we want to have one producer on each one of the producers should get the bounty program to manage so just when you're doing your management as editorial director let's give one of them tactical practical give one of them

SPEAKER_188: uh bounties see you all next time bye bye bye folks go nicks thanks for watching this week in

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