SPEAKER_00: Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. We thought Tuesday would slow down. We're wrong. It's just chaos out there. But I got to talk to you about Disney Bob Iger is becoming a venture partner. But I'm just

SPEAKER_01: what firm? I know. So like, does this mean though, we're straight up peers with Bob Iger right now? Pretty much. I'm just saying straight up peers. I got to zoom with them later. Straight up peers. We do have questions, however, about where he went, which we will discuss. We will also talk about the Twitter whistleblower hearings, featuring former head of security Peter Zatko,

SPEAKER_05: aka Mudge, just saying it all on behalf of security professionals everywhere.

SPEAKER_07: This is explosive stuff, folks. And then we're going to talk about KKR, that big, huge financial

SPEAKER_09: firm. I guess, you know, they saw what I was doing with publicly raising. And I guess they're going to publicly raise from QP's, qualified purchasers with some kind of token angle, which I don't understand. We're going to double click on that.

SPEAKER_05: And then we're going to, as quickly and efficiently as possible, dispense with the gross story about the allegations regarding Lodge House.

SPEAKER_13: Okay. It's going to be a great show. Stick with us.

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SPEAKER_16: That's assure.co slash twist.

SPEAKER_05: Remember that fun time yesterday when you were like, I don't know if this is going to be a big news week or not? That was funny.

SPEAKER_20: This is bonkers. I mean, we didn't get through the docket yesterday. People are- We didn't even come close. They're like, what about this story? What about this story? What about this story? And then I wake up

SPEAKER_21: this morning and I start, you know, doing my little 6.30 to 8 a.m. discovery process of the news as we do in our little secret group. And it's like, you know, Disney, boof, Iger, boof, you know,

SPEAKER_26: Launch House, boom, boom. Oh, Mudge is on Capitol Hill right now. Boom, boom.

SPEAKER_28: Oh, man. It's too much news.

SPEAKER_01: There's probably like a bunch of other stuff that broke while we were doing all that. And we just, you know what? We're just going to pretend it didn't happen because we don't know. All right. Let's be- Whatever it is, don't tell me.

SPEAKER_32: We're going to be super efficient today. That is my commitment to everybody. Yes. We're going to- No more banter. We have founders to mentor. It's a big news week.

SPEAKER_01: It's true. We have been a little unfocused the last couple shows. And you know what? I'm fine with that. I think it's fun as hell, but we're back on task now.

SPEAKER_35: We have to be on task. Okay. Now, my guy, Bob Iger. This is a man crush. This is an ex-

SPEAKER_36: You know how I am. I just love a great executive. Yep. For me, if I could put posters on my wall, it wouldn't be Megan Thee Stallion. Although I am

SPEAKER_38: a fan of Thee Stallion. But I probably would put a Bob Iger poster up before a Megan Thee Stallion

SPEAKER_02: poster. Yeah. I'm just being honest here. Listen, I know Chapik is in charge now and we just have to like accept that. But I'm team Iger for life. I'm not having any Chapik right now.

SPEAKER_44: A lot of concerns as a shareholder. I feel like we need to sit. His style's a little dated. He gets the parks, but he got booted. His little 90s. What do they call the Disney thing where everybody gets

SPEAKER_09: together? I know they have like Marvel does their thing, but Disney has a thing where they all get together. Oh, they do? I think it was D23. D23. That was like the name of it. They call it, it's not Disney con. But that happened. I think last week where they were showing off a bunch of

SPEAKER_52: new stuff. We talked about this a little mermaid. We'll talk more about it with line this week is streaming Thursday. But we will. Yeah. We're all wondering what's gonna happen with Bob Iger. He

SPEAKER_09: spoke at the code conference. He said he's looking for interesting deals. I'm trying to get in touch

SPEAKER_56: with him because I got a great deal for him that I want him to look at that I'm on the board of I'll leave it at that. So shout out Bob Iger if anybody knows him. But what else is the news that broke

SPEAKER_05: today? Well, yeah, exactly. Now he's ready to co invest because he has officially joined New

SPEAKER_01: York City based VC firm Thrive Capital as a venture partner. We lost Jason. Sorry, I spit

SPEAKER_66: out my coffee. Did you say Thrive Ventures? Bravo on that bit. Bravo. I gotcha. I gotcha. I told

SPEAKER_67: you. I just want to make you laugh. You did. Hold on a second. It's Thrive Capital, the

SPEAKER_01: Kushner. Yeah, it is, dude. This is so crazy. Okay. So like legendary Lib Bob Iger. Super Lib. Super Lib. Mega Lib. Has now joined up with the Kushner family. Okay. To be an investor at Thrive Capital. I mean, I'm just saying we're right here. He could, he could come here.

SPEAKER_72: Come work with us. He could go to Sequoia. He doesn't have to move to the valley to invest

David Friedberg: alongside. He could have worked with Sequoia, Andreessen, anybody. He could have a pick of the

SPEAKER_21: litter. Choice. He chose to work with, and now I know they're brothers, so it's separate, right? This is Josh Kushner's firm. Josh, I understand, is not in favor of Trump. I mean,

SPEAKER_32: who even knows? But Jared Kushner obviously worked at the White House or whatever, but didn't Bob Iger spend the last, like, whatever number of years fighting against Trump? It's

SPEAKER_05: really weird. It's such a strange tie-up. Like, it really is. I mean, I don't know anything about,

SPEAKER_01: you know, Josh Kushner and his politics. I know that Jared Kushner was involved and maybe was even a co-founder of Thrive Capital and divested as much as anybody in that family did during the administration. It's an odd tie-up. And then, of course, they're both the son of Charles Kushner, who I think went to, like, the big... Yeah, he did. Yeah, that was a whole story to tell.

SPEAKER_44: Prison and it's a whole, yeah, it's a thing. I mean, if you want to look up a crazy story, their parents, the dad and his brother, did, like, all kinds of crazy stuff to each other,

SPEAKER_32: like, set each other up and, like, got to... I mean, it's gnarly, the family story. It's, like,

SPEAKER_87: what's the CNBC show that I was referencing the other day? American Greed? There must be an

SPEAKER_88: American Greed on... On this family, right? There's got to be. It's sordid and crazy.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's... But yeah, exactly. Like, as Nick points out, yeah, sounds like just the kind of people you want to get into business with. If you are Bob Iger and you are taking your impeccable reputation... Kara Swisher called him smooth jazz on the last Pivot episode this morning,

SPEAKER_72: like... Because he's so... Well, he's so cultivated. He's so delightful. He's so polished. He's so

SPEAKER_93: smooth. High EQ. He has done everything right in his entire career. And then he's with these knuckleheads? And he just joined up with Reck of all of the firms in all the gin joints.

SPEAKER_56: And I mean, it's a little weird. I mean, and I... It's such a lot of choice. I do recognize that, like, the brothers could have different opinions. I mean, that's completely possible. But that's

SPEAKER_93: really weird. Here's Alex from the Noties. One Cush brother set up the other brother with a

SPEAKER_99: hooker and taped it and then blackmailed him. I didn't want to get into all the details because that is... That's my understanding of it. And having been a New Yorker and remembering this,

SPEAKER_100: like, this was in all the tabloids for, like, years. I mean, I guess nothing matters. Reputation

SPEAKER_19: does not matter. It's all, like, in the past. Well, it doesn't because let's look at their investment history, right? Here's, like, if you really want to get down to all that matters. They made some good late stage investments. Like, I think they did Stripe and Spotify, Robinhood, but they were, like... They did early investments in Instagram. Stripe, Spotify, Robinhood, Skims. I don't know if those were early.

SPEAKER_102: I'm going to be totally honest. I think they were later. I don't think they were seed or

SPEAKER_103: Series A investments. I could be wrong. They did. Plaid, Affirm, Glossier. But I think they were doing, like, the Bs and Cs. I think they've had a good track record,

SPEAKER_104: though, yes. Twitch. But yeah. But still. Like, I mean, you know, right, at the end of the day, like, but still. That is a very, I would say, surprising choice. It's a really weird choice.

SPEAKER_44: I mean, if you're Bob Iger, there's only, like, five venture firms you would want that could even hold a candle to your reputation. This is not one of them.

SPEAKER_32: It's like he's kind of slumming it. I'll be honest. It's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_111: Right? Like, I sort of... Anybody... Anybody would take him. Anybody would have his

SPEAKER_103: heartbeat. I don't know Josh Kushner, so I'll leave it out there. Me neither. Jared Kushner is obviously horrible, but I don't know Josh Kushner. Josh founded Thrive without Jared.

SPEAKER_15: Yeah, Jared is... Okay. I know that he was involved.

SPEAKER_09: So I don't really know, but he was involved and had to divest. Yeah, because that became a little bit of a back channel amongst venture circles,

SPEAKER_21: because remember, now, in the tech industry, I'd say it's 80% liberal moderates, and maybe 20%

SPEAKER_09: conservatives. I'm just painting with a really broad brush here. But if you went and you took a survey at Google or whatever, now you go to the venture class, I think it's maybe 65-35 moderates and liberals, putting them into one bucket, and then maybe conservatives would be 25-35% amongst the venture capital class, because they have, obviously, maybe more into finance and less government,

SPEAKER_44: less spending, balancing the budget kind of thing. So just painting with a broad brush here,

SPEAKER_09: there was this, are we going to ever do a deal with that firm, because it's got the Kushner name, and people saw Trump as an existential risk, yada, yada, yada. So there was a back channel, Molly, of like, would entrepreneurs take money from that firm? Really? Yeah, I mean, it was, people felt very scared when Trump got in office. I mean, for good reason, you know, closing the borders, and some of the, you know, stuff he did. So that's where this, like, politics stuff, I think, getting too close to the Trump brand, you know, like, if you're, here's the thing about the Trump brand, if you're a nobody, if you're Bannon, if you're, I'm just

SPEAKER_126: speaking just strictly on a brand affiliation basis. If you're Bannon, if you're Roger Stone, if you're Alex Jones, if you're like some dip standing next to Trump, who's president,

SPEAKER_127: that lifts up your image, right? If you are Bob Iger being two steps removed, or one step, one step removed here, if you're, you know, anybody who is just good in business, uh, it kind of became a little bit of a liability. Peter Thiel, another perfect example, right? Like, I think people were like, I'm not gonna work with Founders Fund, because of what Peter Thiel supported Trump. And I think there are people who would never take money from Founders Fund for that reason. And I think that's why you saw Thiel kind of not talk about Founders Fund, or do speaking gigs about Founders Fund for the last six years, right? And then you saw is Thiel off

SPEAKER_131: the Facebook board now? He announced it. I don't know if he is officially off. Oh, oh, yeah,

SPEAKER_76: I don't know if he's actually officially left. And so that caused a bit of a problem, right? Peter Thiel is a big brand. Peter Thiel is really smart. Peter Thiel is a great investor,

SPEAKER_127: great executive, brilliant person. And like, that was like a big reputation cost in Silicon Valley, I think. And so that that's the only thing I'm talking about here, putting politics aside, you do have to think brand wise, when you're making transitions, what brand you want to be

SPEAKER_30: associated with? Absolutely. Everyone, I mean, everyone thinks that way. It would be naive to say

SPEAKER_02: that people don't think that way. And this is 100%, I would say a bigger, this is a, this is a get for

Jason Calacanis: Thrive, right? This is a reputation washing. Right about now, everybody in Hollywood is like,

SPEAKER_21: what's Thrive Capital? Like, they're just googling it. Right? Whereas if you went to Sequoia or Andreessen,

SPEAKER_09: Excel, Kleiner, you know, any of that shortlist, or if you went the other way, Tiger, KOTU, you know, more PE, you know, they'd be like, Oh, makes total sense, right? Like, right. That's where that person's brand belongs. So this is a big risk for Iger to, you know, dip down.

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SPEAKER_146: apparently met through their wives, journalist Willow Bay and Carly Kloss, both models for

SPEAKER_150: Estee Lauder. They both have model wives. That's how this came to be evidently. Uh, okay. That's

SPEAKER_36: interesting. Wall Street Journal. Were they on a shoot together? I don't know. Are they active models? I don't know. I've heard of Carly Kloss as an influencer or an actual model? She's an actual

SPEAKER_86: model. She's a super big deal supermodel, but I know I understand that it's hard. It's like hard to know who really is and who isn't. I just want to say like, I'm old school. She's a big STEM activist.

SPEAKER_21: For me, there's like supermodels. It's like, there's 12 and like one or two come out and then one or two go in, but like the supermodel term is now everybody's a model. I think I'm going to be

SPEAKER_01: a model now. Same. She's, she does girls who code. She's really big in STEM. I mean, like, no, that's actually super cool. You know, I don't assume that Willow Bay is that she's a journalist, but maybe also, I don't look, I don't know. All I'm saying is that's journalists model. That's

SPEAKER_05: how they met. That apparently is how they met. Maybe they really had a great connection. I'm not denigrating models. I do think it would be fair to say though, that if you are one of the entrepreneurs, evidently, like one of the things that Iger is going to do at Thrive Capital is like mentor and

SPEAKER_01: offer advice to founders, which is a huge value add for that. That's a big firm already. And those

SPEAKER_32: founders. Now to be clear, he's not going full time. This is a venture partner thing, which basically means they give him cash to invest in companies. They give him the lion

SPEAKER_120: share. I bet to get him of the carry and they take a small percentage of the carry. So I think this is

SPEAKER_53: a way for him to get access to maybe $250 million of their maybe 10% of the fund. They have a $3 billion fund or something like that. If I read correctly this morning, whatever billions under

SPEAKER_44: management they have, you know, maybe he's now got access to 100 million a year, 50 million a year to invest in startups. If they get 25% carry, maybe they gave him 15 or 20 of the points just to get his name on the website, right to attract founders. In fact, there would be an argument to just give him all of it. Like whatever, you know, we'll take 10% of whatever you make you take 90, we'll take 10

SPEAKER_32: just to have you in the family. And for him that he's plug and play ready to go. But I think he would have been better off going to Sequoia or somewhere like that. But Sequoia actually doesn't have

SPEAKER_09: celebrity a lot of times the celebrities don't actually do the work. So that's the other thing with these celebrity investors. Do they actually want to do 1020 meetings a week? Right? Kind of what it takes? Right? If you're going to be a VC, it's going to be a 60 hour week, and it's going to be 10 minimum 10 companies a week to meet with if you're going to be successful. I mean, it's pretty

SPEAKER_172: unless you have some magical deal flow. Mm hmm. I think a lot of celebrities underestimate the actual

SPEAKER_56: effort and time you're coming up against this. Mm hmm. Like the amount of time mistakes.

SPEAKER_15: Yeah, we have a slightly unusual situation in that regard. Well, we have the pot six day a week

SPEAKER_176: show, you know, every show, you know, I mean, it's I was thinking about this the other day, I was just like, my Lord, this to be successful this job. I think I'm trying to figure out if there's a

SPEAKER_09: way to be successful as a venture capitalist, and put in less than 50 or 60 hours a week, I just don't think it's possible. Like, my contemporaries are six, seven days a week, like I'm getting emails from them, seven days a week, you got to put that extra hour in at like 11 o'clock when you put your kids to bed. It's just Yeah, be careful what you wish were a lot of people are doing this VC job. And I'll stop my little tangent here. And this might be something for Sunday, VC Sunday School, a lot of people are doing this job. And they're kind of phoning it in. And I can tell you that's not going to work in a down market. So a lot of people Yeah, who were throwing darts, and be like, this job's easy.

SPEAKER_21: I'll just you know, whatever Sequoia did the Series A for, I'll just overpay for the Series B. And I'll

SPEAKER_09: just throw money at it. I won't read the term sheet, I won't do diligence. That's not going to work anymore. That only works for that last 25% of the upmarket.

SPEAKER_15: And I think there's like a percept, there must be a perception that that's happening. Because there was

SPEAKER_01: there was some tweet the other day that was like, you know, look at a VC's calendar. Like, Oh, I don't have time to squeeze you in today. And it was like, it was funny, because

SPEAKER_180: it's the first listen to all in. But then it was like a lunch, and then some meditation, and then

SPEAKER_01: do this thing. And then it was like two meetings on there. And I was like, Mother Trucker, like, come now, come and look at my let me just screenshot this for you. Like, no, are you kidding? Like, there are 55 hours, there are 11 hours a day, just on the calendar, just calendar hours, I did. I only

SPEAKER_185: saw the all in part of this to not disturb all in pockets, I kind of can get behind this. I mean,

SPEAKER_05: that made me laugh. Catch up on Twitter was like founder pitch one, like one founder pitch, catch on Twitter up on Twitter for an hour, take a founder to lunch, meet with Twitter ghostwriter.

SPEAKER_190: I mean, the fact that Twitter is five hours is kind of the best part of this.

SPEAKER_09: It's not accurate. 10.30am is one founder pitch. Pick up kids. Do not work day over. Yeah, that's the problem is the pickup kids work day over.

SPEAKER_193: The all in thing is fine. Anyway, I'm saying there's

SPEAKER_01: clearly a perception that VCs are like goofing off and going to burn them off. And I will say, I don't know. I don't know any of I'm trying to teach you what the way I learned,

SPEAKER_09: which is old school, which is it's a numbers game, how much time you can spend with founders, how many founders you can meet. I'm just trying to teach the whole team like this is a numbers game. I was relentless in meeting with unbelievable number of companies. And that's how you get you build that signal. And you put on Cerebro like Professor X. And you're like, Oh, there's something going on in Alaska. Fire up the jet, Cyclops. We're going to Alaska. There's a mutant there. And then you go

SPEAKER_32: find Logan. Like if you want to find the mutants, like you got to put Cerebro on you got to really

SPEAKER_196: search. It's a good analogy search. Nick, fire up that meme machine. We need Jason with Cerebro on.

SPEAKER_32: Well, you know, my friend Alexis Ohanian made a really cool piece of software

SPEAKER_09: where he's tracking. Apparently, I think it's really brilliant idea. He's tracking post investment support, and somebody tweeted it. So he just, you know, he made Reddit, which is like a very elegant, simple piece of software and great software. And that Web 2.0 era is elegant, and it kind of just does what it's supposed to do. And I get the sense he took that community stuff. And he built it into his version of Cerebro searching for mutants, a metaphor, you know, many of us, many of us have used, which is when you look at great entrepreneurs, make a two by two matrix, easy to get a hard to get along with. And like ability, you know, like how hard working and you know, their general aptitude for it, you know, their their ability to be a founder. And it's like, which quadrant do you think we make our money? And it's like the ones who are hard to get along with, and who are really driven, like,

SPEAKER_32: yeah, the end like they're mutants. They're, they're, they're not easy to get along with. And you're going to fight with them over, you know, all kinds of details. And you know, you might not agree with them. But that's, that's how you make money. It's just going back to like a little freedom to be

SPEAKER_199: unlikable in the relentless pursuit of success, frankly. Well, I mean, I hate to make it a general

SPEAKER_05: thing, though, later. Wait, I don't get that permission. We are going to later talk about

SPEAKER_09: times when that can go awry, potentially, I think you'll be the greatest climate investor in history. I'm putting it out there right now. I think given your work ethic, and what I saw in the first six months, and your, your heart and desire to do this. And the commitment you've shown, I think you will become the greatest climate investor of all time. I think you'd be like you, John Doerr, like, and then Vinod, like it'd be 123. Because they're kind of done. And you're just getting started. And you got, I'd say 25 years to do that. I think you'll do this till you're 70, 75, you could put in 25 years in this job. And everything you do in the first two years is going to be like the epilogue. And then it's going to be like, Oh, yeah, year three, she met this company. And she backed them before anybody else did, right. And then it's that will be the Uber of the space or the Google of the space.

SPEAKER_207: But it really is about work ethic, you know, and I think that's the thing that's going to change.

SPEAKER_05: Thank you. And second, that is my plan. I think so much about the other day when we had that conversation about adding a zero to your expectations. I have thought about that every single day and like, specifically done that inside my mind. Like, yes, that's the plan. Let's go.

SPEAKER_210: It really is about work. You can't say it, right? You can't. I mean, I say all the time,

SPEAKER_09: listen, I'm trying to be the best investor in the history of venture capital. Like, that's the goal I have. I know I'm top 10 angel, you know, probably top 25, you know, in terms of who people would want on their cap table right now. And why not go for being number one? Hey, listen, if you if you wind up being Steph Curry, to Jordan, you know, and, you know, LeBron and Kobe. Okay, fine. So be it. It's great people to be, you know, standing behind. We're at the foot of Mount Rushmore, because they've filled up those four spots. But I said the other day, I'm the best moderator in the business. And people were like, yeah, that's probably true.

SPEAKER_212: I was like, okay. And then somebody was like, I don't think you are. It's like, okay. You're like names. Tell me more. Tell me the names. And they're like,

SPEAKER_32: Tim Ferriss was like, Okay, yeah, Tim and I are on par. Sure. Like, find me. When is Tim moderated

SPEAKER_01: three maniacs? Well, I was gonna say, there's what you said is a very specific thing, right? You weren't like, I'm the best podcaster. I'm the best co host. I'm the best host. You were like,

SPEAKER_02: who can manage a bag of rabid cats? Exactly. Tigers, three tiger puppies,

SPEAKER_218: three angry tigers. Three soaking wet tigers. Pretty funny. But Sema Moody was like,

SPEAKER_219: a woman could never say this. I was like, fair. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, why not give it a shot?

SPEAKER_225: Right. I mean, you can. It's just that everybody will try to shout you out of existence or whatever. But yeah, they do that to me too. At the same time, just say it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_228: All right. Okay. We got to move on to this bigger news. We do. We actually do. See, look, we're just goofing off this week. Okay. A little tangent.

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SPEAKER_193: The other thing that was happening today while this Bob Iger news was seemed like the big,

SPEAKER_01: the big deal was that Peter Zatko aka Mudge Twitter's former head of security had his whistle blower hearing today in front of Congress. We just went ahead and grabbed the best clips for you. Does it seem like the best? I feel like the best strategy is just like show you some clips and then talk about

SPEAKER_05: them. First up, we have a 59 second clip where Mudge just sort of sets up the scope of the security

SPEAKER_235: issues at Twitter. I'm here today because Twitter leadership is misleading the public, lawmakers,

SPEAKER_236: regulators, and even its own board of directors. What I discovered when I joined Twitter was that this enormously influential company was over a decade behind industry security standards. And when an influential media platform can be compromised by teenagers, thieves, and spies, and the company repeatedly create security problems on their own, this is a big deal for all of us. When I brought concrete evidence of these fundamental problems to the executive team and repeatedly sounded the alarm of the real risks associated with them, and these were problems brought to me by the engineers and employees of the company themselves, the executive team chose instead to mislead its board, shareholders, lawmakers, and the public instead of addressing them. Okay, that was a big opener. That was he

SPEAKER_32: went for the rafters. I mean, this is so explosive. And we're just going to talk about the whistleblower here and not its downstream impacts. I'm not going to talk about other issues with Twitter and their

SPEAKER_225: corporate development. Also, I'm of the opinion, as are many legal experts, that they are unrelated.

SPEAKER_32: They are so well, yeah, or, or, or they, they're admissible, all of a sudden, apparently. So let's put that other case on the side and talk about this case is our official position on another thing.

SPEAKER_103: We're only talking about this one. I'm only talking about the whistleblower. So he says they're a decade

SPEAKER_21: behind. That's stunning. For a modern company with unlimited resources to be a decade behind, and then misleading the public and the board. Mm hmm. This is where you start to realize there's a cover up. And that much is super credible, because he has very specific instances of what he's claiming here, the cover up, and we'll get to them in a minute. But the misleading of your board of directors. This is like where this could tip over into a fine and sanctions that are perhaps unprecedented.

SPEAKER_09: I don't know if you remember the Facebook fines, but I think they hit a billion dollars. It was the largest one ever five. I think these fines could be very large. And he gets a percentage of the fines, by the way, because of the whistleblower laws. And I just want to say, like, shout out to whistleblowers, like, um, Francis Haugen. Am I pronouncing her in this? No, correct? Okay. How again, she was not in a top, I think, probably much as position was top seven in the company, something in that range. She was

SPEAKER_127: far below that. And she had really explosive stuff like, Oh, my God, they know that they're damaging

SPEAKER_00: children. And then this is like a next level thing, because this ties right to the board and to these claims of don't write anything down, and suppress information, and mislead people. And it's

SPEAKER_127: always the cover up, not the crime, as they say in the business, when you see the cover up start to feel really suspect. And, you know, like, Okay, well, why did you, you know, delete these documents? Why didn't you tell people? Why didn't you write it down? That's when you're like, Ah, you know, we got you. And I think that's what I got from only the first hour and a half of this, I listened to on

SPEAKER_252: double speed. Yeah, well, what do you think? We'll keep going through the clips. I think, you know,

SPEAKER_05: my overall takeaway was, yes, Twitter security is pretty obviously a clown show. It's to a pretty

SPEAKER_01: dangerous degree. I didn't hear specific examples of that, like, at no point was much like, I know this happened. I know, you know, public figure was impersonated on Twitter. I also didn't hear and under quite specific questioning about the FTC. He did, he was not able to say, I know for a fact that Twitter misrepresented to the FTC the terms of the consent decree, right? I also thought to myself repeatedly, this is so bad. And I guarantee that almost every other company has almost the same security issues. And that if any whistleblower had come forward about security issues at a lot of high ranking companies, they would be pretty similar, like how he was like, you know, the laptops don't conform to the security parameters. Yep, that's every company everywhere. Like it was interesting to have, there was a great tweet where somebody said, every, every CISO or CISO, you know, every chief information security officer who's ever been fired for surfacing internal security risks, every security exec who's ever made a hard call and been blamed instead of supported, watch the speed and watch much get to say all the things you didn't get to say.

SPEAKER_254: Like, I think this is common, the scale of the danger is in question. But I was live was like,

SPEAKER_88: yep, now do Facebook. Now, here's the thing now do Google, which has like, I actually think if you look at those three companies, I was going to bring both of them

SPEAKER_135: up as the as the examples. Yeah, they are known for being tech driven leadership,

SPEAKER_21: Zuckerberg, Larry and Sergey, like the DNA of the company was technologists, developers, and they have incredible security put in place. And then Twitter was always known as not being able to keep the service up and running the fail. Well, not never having great tech leadership, never being able to ship products. So I do think, you know, when Zuckerberg called them the clown car that crashed into a diamond mind or whatever that famous quote is, I think it is sort of like that they struck a chord in product design, they struck a chord in, you know, the the format,

SPEAKER_09: and the interactivity, the UX level, that was their expertise and genius. And then their Achilles heel has always been technology. And I think maybe, yeah, that's fair, had Ev, Dick Costolo and Jack,

SPEAKER_01: they've never ignored for 15 years, exactly, like Twitter has never taken its own product seriously, whether it was in terms of its impact on its users, its impact on the world, or security. I think that's 100% true that they have not taken it seriously, probably to a worse extent than other companies. But I will say, I what there was a part of me listening to this, it was like,

SPEAKER_05: I don't know that you can hold this up as the gold standard of insecure companies, because I'm sure that these problems exist. I'm sure there's much worse, but it was very bad.

SPEAKER_07: And it's also the scale of it, right? And the influence of it. So if let's say your SaaS company was

SPEAKER_09: just as bad with 10,000 paid customers, you know, like, okay, what's the footprint of damage,

SPEAKER_44: the footprint of damage here, when you have world leaders on the service, the president is using it, you know, president of every country is using it, every media outlets using it, every celebrity is

SPEAKER_09: using it, every, you know, CEO is using it, the fact that those people are being compromised, and then the internal stuff, when he said, like, half of the people have access to everybody's accounts, and that low level people are turning off accounts or looking at them, and they have no controls in place to see who's looking at stuff. Facebook went through this, there was somebody on the Facebook team who was stalking their ex. And that got discovered. And then they created a system. It's a very simple auditing log. Anybody who logs in to check on another person's account, it gets logged and a person looks at it and have to write, Why did I look at this, just like a cop or a detective, when they use the database to look at license plate numbers, they have to log in. So you know, hey, Detective Calacanis is looking at license plates, and I have to put why I'm pulling up this license plate. Mm hmm. And you take a risk, right? Like, that's when some people says run, run a license plate for me. People like, I don't know if I want to do that. Right? People were running license plates at Facebook to spy on their ex girlfriends to find out who they were DMing with. Yeah, I'm probably I mean, it's really scary stalker.

SPEAKER_267: I'm just saying that actually happened at Facebook. And then they locked it up

SPEAKER_242: close that like in your lunch was like, theoretically, that could happen. But I don't know of any times that it did. I'm just saying I think we're gonna find out a lot.

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SPEAKER_236: To put it bluntly, Twitter leadership ignored its engineers because key parts of leadership lacked the competency to understand the scope of the problem. But more importantly, their executive incentives led them to prioritize profits over security. So what are the problems I discovered? Two basic issues. First, they don't know what data they have, where it lives or where it came from. And so unsurprisingly, they can't protect it. And this leads to the second problem, which is the employees then have to have too much access to too much data and to too many systems. You can think of it this way, which is it doesn't matter who has keys if you

SPEAKER_274: don't have any locks on the doors. Yeah, I mean, basically, management doesn't understand the problem.

SPEAKER_09: Mm hmm. And this is where data is really problematic. I I'm making data decisions at inside.com, right? And I'm like, do what is the benefit of us having that data? Should we keep it or not? Right, right. And I think your data is my liability is how a lot of companies are looking at this. Now,

SPEAKER_44: when you have an ad based business, you're kind of like, Oh, your data is how I make money. So collect, collect, collect is the default. And then a lot of startups now are looking at saying like, I really do

SPEAKER_09: not want to have your data, please, for the love of God, I don't want to have any access to your password hash it, I do not want to have access to your location, just scrub that data from the system. Just don't keep it. But this is this is really troubling that his act if his accusation turns out to be accurate, that the management team was subverting this information in order to hit

SPEAKER_44: their bonuses, it's pretty dark, pretty dark, because they're putting everybody at risk to make their

SPEAKER_07: money. It's kind of like there are no stuff, you know, like, Yeah, we're gonna make money and be famous. So we can cut corners. But we'll see, you know, this is this is one side of the story, they're gonna they're gonna pull up Prague next. And we'll be the other side, we should Yeah,

SPEAKER_05: we should probably say allegedly and Twitter was not there to respond today. So here he is

SPEAKER_01: responding to a question about hiring a security company for an internal review, and then management

SPEAKER_136: intercepting the results. This was the most damage so far. Your complaint also details how Twitter's

SPEAKER_286: executive team was concerned that the report that you'd commissioned would be damaging if it got out,

SPEAKER_287: and that they worked to intentionally remove or modify information that might be especially

SPEAKER_289: embarrassing for Twitter. Is that correct? Yes, sir. I found that very disturbing. The company that I hired with the knowledge of the other executives and the head of Site Integrity, which did not report to me, but that this independent organization was going to analyze and do gap analysis. The company reached out to me and said, Hey, Mudge, Twitter is jumping in and making us open a separate contract,

SPEAKER_290: and telling us not to provide you the results to your own work. This does not feel right to us,

SPEAKER_07: what's going on. This was the one I told I asked the team to clip because this felt like the smoking gun to me. What do you think? Yes. I'm so torn on this because I think

SPEAKER_89: I think nothing ever happens in a vacuum and Twitter is a disaster. So you're saying

SPEAKER_01: it is a disaster is a disaster as a product. It's a disaster with respect to security. Like all of that is true. And also, I just don't know of a single company that you know, like, it's just and also, this is what companies do they prioritize profits over user safety over and over and over and

Jason Calacanis: over. And every time you see that happen in social media, the results are just devastating.

SPEAKER_71: So nobody is out here protecting personal data. For God's sake, there aren't even any laws.

SPEAKER_01: Like I think every I really agree that every chief security officer would have some version of the story

SPEAKER_09: to tell if they were compelled to Congress. I don't think that they would have this specific piece. So let me just break down what I think is happening here. Mm hmm. I think that Mudge was brought in by

SPEAKER_21: Jack, because Jack said, we need to clean this up. This is an existential risk to the company. He brings him in, then I guess there is a management change. And now Prague's the boss, or maybe Jack hasn't been working there as much full time and doesn't have time. So Prague's the one kind of working with him, or whoever. And then he says, Okay, I'm going to shine light on anything. He's, he's there to clean up, right? So you know, no one wants that. Yeah. And it's like, it's sort of like, and I've been involved in this where I've had three companies in 350 where no, yeah, three different

SPEAKER_09: instances where we had to do a kind of an audit, let's say, for various reasons. Sometimes it's HR, sometimes it's accounting, sometimes it's people's expense reports can be any number of things that the board becomes aware of. And then the board is under an obligation to investigate those things. Mm hmm. And or a review, you can sometimes you don't use the word investigate, you just do a review, but you need a third party to do the review. What happens when a third party review comes in? Well, if in fact, there's been shenanigans, this whole, let's call it a dance

SPEAKER_21: occurs. I'm just giving you like the inside of what happens, the dance occurs. Here's how the dance works. This group of people management know there was a screw up, the board is like,

SPEAKER_00: we didn't know about the screw up, we need to CYA. But we're loyal to us management, because we're getting shares in the company were paid, we're aligned, we want the share price to go up. But we also we don't want to be in a New York Times story that the board did not didn't do anything. So now there's evidence of wrongdoing. There's management trying to clean it up, perhaps. There's a board that's trying to CYA but knows they have to throw somebody under the bus possibly. But they want to be loyal. And but they want to do the right thing. So they want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Then you have somebody like this, who's a third party who came in to clean up. They have only one mission clean it up. That's what you're hiring me for. Mm hmm. So let's play out the dance. Clearly,

SPEAKER_127: management has been inept. That's not there's no question about that. We know that we see it, we literally feel it as a democracy. So we see it as uses of the product all the releases, we know that they're not good at this. And especially not compared to cameras, we know much is great at this.

SPEAKER_120: And we know the board, they didn't invest their money. These are people who are ceremonially put on the board, and they all got you know, a couple million dollars in shares. And we know they are CYA,

SPEAKER_00: they're not the founders of the company. So what would happen in a situation like this? Executive team races to clean stuff up and to spin it to the board to squash the issue. That's typically what happens.

SPEAKER_143: Mm hmm. And there's a negotiated settlement. Maybe this wasn't as bad. Maybe how can we spin this? Oh, somebody went and spent $50,000 on stuff they shouldn't have spent. Oh,

SPEAKER_00: they accidentally use the wrong card, where they were traveling, and their personal card didn't work. They use their professional one, they forgot to change the expense report. I'm just using the classic expense report, right thing. And it's like, Oh, yeah, no, it was a complete oversight. He paid the money back, and they put interest on it. We can squash this issue. Oh, there was a misunderstanding between two people who dated at the company. Oh, yeah, we paid for that person's two years of salary. They said nothing happened, they signed this agreement. It was just a misunderstanding. That's the dance.

SPEAKER_21: And here we are, we're in the middle of the dance. And now you have to ask yourself, who's the most credible, the CYA board, the CYA, cover your exec team, or prorog, or this guy, I'm going with this guy. And the fact that he commissioned a report, and then they went and told the people doing the report, to not give him the information, but to give it to them and to not include certain information. And the people making the report felt so uncomfortable, they told Mudge, if this is true. Because that's the next group that's going to get pulled up is that security

SPEAKER_09: team, and they might have the receipts that they said, do not put these three things in the report, and do not give it to Mudge. Yeah, that's the cover up that to me is the whole game right there.

SPEAKER_21: They got if that's true, it's game over for the entire management team there. And it's a it's a

SPEAKER_194: it's hundreds of millions in fines, and settlements with shareholders. That's my prediction.

SPEAKER_319: Um, here is that it amazingly gets even worse. This testimony, but you understand the dance

SPEAKER_254: and pretty soon, of course, I understand the dance. I'm a 20 year journalist, like I understand the

SPEAKER_322: dance. I am just saying this dance about the dance at every company, all day, every day. And

SPEAKER_01: there are so many sins, there are so many sins that I think, like, I'm just trying to keep a lot of things in my head at the same time. One, Twitter is a security nightmare. Two, 10 years later, maybe no more or less a security nightmare than Facebook or Enron or T mobile, which has been hacked like 10,000 times in the last like 10 years, right. And I don't, I think there's a there's a no comment part of this, that is an eagerness for Twitter to be in the wrong here, that I am holding in my head at the same time. Yeah. And also, Twitter is a disaster. And has

Jason Calacanis: historically been a disaster. For the only thing I just, I think you're giving way too much credit

SPEAKER_330: that they're anywhere near the technical ability of Google, or Facebook. I mean, there's a reason why

SPEAKER_98: Facebook has 10 times the user base, and Google has 10 times the user base. It's, they're just not

SPEAKER_01: comparable in technical ability. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they are definitely better at building horrifying surveillance machines and monetizing the crap out of them and then turning down any potential opportunity to take care of their users. They're technically of growth and revenue. They are technically better at screwing their users and ruining discourse. But technically better,

SPEAKER_08: nonetheless, if you were to rate on a scale of one to 10 technical ability in interwebs, you would put Google and Facebook absolutely no doubt you would put Twitter at 600%. Yeah, let's go to the clip

SPEAKER_01: where and this is like, it's, you know, things are legit scary. This is your responding to a question about his claims that the Indian government installed an operative at this one 73 seconds.

SPEAKER_286: You wrote in your complaint, the Indian government forced Twitter to hire Indian government agents who then had direct and unsupervised access to data. And a former Twitter employee was convicted last August of working as an agent of the Saudi Kingdom. How common do you think it is for foreign entities, for hostile agencies to successfully install sympathetic actors at Twitter? And why might they do so?

SPEAKER_289: There were many of reasons why you would do so, in particular to not just identify people of interest or track groups of interest, but also to maybe look at whether or not Twitter has identified your agents or your information operations. What other governments has Twitter possibly identified? And remember, you know, outside of the ability to access large amounts of data on the engineering side, you would want to know what Twitter's plan is as far as whether they will cede to your demands for control of information within their environments or not, in order to change different types of political pressure, such as strong arming. And as we saw, that that country was even threatening to put Twitter employees in jail, if Twitter didn't change particular activities.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, Twitter definitely seemed to have an infiltration problem, right? Like at one point, they had the Saudi employees, I think he also in his testimony said that they had like a Chinese agent. Yeah. And then, and then finally, to wrap it all up, like this is what happens when you neglect your product to the extent that it does actual damage to public discourse, democracy, and maybe national security, is that you have stuff like this being said by Senator Lindsey Graham.

SPEAKER_344: So here's what I promised to you, that we're going to take your testimony, we're going to learn from it, we're going to create a system more like Europe, a regulatory environment with teeth, an agency that came about after 1914, with the power to deal with privacy issues, content moderation. If you're going to be in this space, you have to harm your sites against foreign interference. You have to protect your sites against criminality. And if somebody takes your content down, you'll have an appeal process outside the group who did it. Does that sound kind of like where we need to be going? Those all sound

SPEAKER_289: good to me, and I would hope measurable and transparent, and thank you, sir. Well, we're headed that way with

SPEAKER_344: my good friend, Senator Hawley, who's going to join the Graham-Warren team. We're going to come up with a regulatory system to make sure that people in this space pay better attention, they have consequences if they don't change their behavior. It's long past due.

Jason Calacanis: So for those who are watching the video, we didn't see him, but that was Senator Lindsey Graham saying that

SPEAKER_01: he was in a team up with Elizabeth Warren to, he talked about potentially like CEOs of social media companies having to have a license, creating the ability for users to sue social media companies if they cause them damage, and then literally saying the words, we're looking at a regime more like Europe. That is where

SPEAKER_02: Republican senators are sitting right now. Lindsey Graham, who then one minute later was like, P.S. I'm going to use the power of the state to make sure that women can't have abortions. Like, what? I would think Lady G would be more sympathy for the ladies.

SPEAKER_150: When you don't take care of your shhhhhh stuck together.

SPEAKER_99: Okay. I'm just, I'm locking up by that one. I'm just, I don't understand why every time they talk about him, they just, my feed is just all Lady G. I like Lady Gaga. I went to see Lady Gaga. Why do they refer to him as Lady Gaga?

SPEAKER_20: I'm walking by, I'm still walking. I don't understand the moniker. I'm all the way down the block right now. And it trends, all the way. Every, this is the problem on my Twitter. Speaking of Twitter,

SPEAKER_00: Lady G trends. I'm like, oh, Gaga dropped a new track. I'm a Gaga stan. And it's always Lindsey Graham speaking. I don't understand. Okay. I'm going to put that aside. Lindsey Graham teaming up with Elizabeth Warren is like the Riddler teaming up with Robin from Batman and Robin. Like what is going on here?

SPEAKER_193: Yeah. I mean, I don't even know if he really is. I would be so curious. This is the team up I did not expect.

SPEAKER_01: But I think what we're really talking about is like, this is the consequence. And look, I hate to be the one who keeps saying this, but it's not like Twitter was not warrant.

SPEAKER_05: Right. It's not as though they're under a fine. It's not as though people have not been saying for well over a decade, like, hey, you need to clean this up. You need to clean up all of it. You need to clean up the harassment. You need to clean up the part where you let everybody say whatever the hell they want. And you don't do anything about it. And you let them brigade. And you have all this coordinated inauthentic activity. And you, you don't respect user privacy in favor of targeted ads. And you choose growth over everything else. It's not as though we have not been saying this

SPEAKER_71: to Twitter for 15 years. And now you are in so much trouble. You have the bed so completely, yes, we have to burn the house down.

SPEAKER_36: All right, listen, I'm going to name the super team. These two geriatric centers, I'm going to call them the Karens. Lindsey Graham, Elizabeth Warren, the Karen. Don't they're coming in, they're going to regulate your social media here.

SPEAKER_21: I have a very pragmatic view on regulation. These social media companies are dumb, because they have flaunted their absolute disregard for the impact of their products in the world. And they have snubbed their nose at regulators. And so what happens when you do that for too long? Well, then people get upset the public, and the public puts pressure on their representatives, and then you get regulated. And the regulation, of course, is done by people outside your industry, what you always want to do is regulate yourself. And the best example of this is the movie industry, the movie industry was getting in a lot of hot water, right? People were upset. Oh, this movie's too violent. Oh, this movie's got too much sex in it. And then the Motion Picture

SPEAKER_00: Association said, Okay, we hear you. You don't want your kids to see whatever happened in The Exorcist that was way too graphic, whatever happened in this movie that was too much sex, whatever it was. And they said, No problem. We'll create our own organization, and we'll rate the movies. We'll have G rated, and we'll have R rated. Then they're like, you know, that's not enough. So they went to G. Then they went to PG. And they said, Well, this is kind of like third. And then they're like, Well, this is kind of a little too much for a 10 year old like, Okay, we'll come up with PG 13. And then we'll come up with not rated. And then we'll come up with X. And they self regulated Molly, and they created a board that looked at every movie. And if you want it to be in movie theaters, the movie theaters required at least the big chains, you submit your movie to the MPAA, so they could put that parental warning at the start of every film. Then the government was like, Okay, fair enough. I gave Zuckerberg and Cheryl the answer to this question. I gave them this the equivalent of the MPAA. When somebody logs into these services,

SPEAKER_127: it should say, Would you like to pay $5 a month, we will track nothing. Or would you like the free advertising version, we're going to track everything you do and serve you ads? If they had that,

SPEAKER_11: that would be the equivalent Molly, in my estimation of the MPAA self rating, because they could say,

SPEAKER_127: Look at 7% of people paid us half of what Netflix costs, our average user spends more time on the service than Netflix. So we think we're worth at least what Netflix charges. And if people want to trade their data for that, who are you, the politicians to say no, we put this we remind everybody on the first of the month, I have this option, and we link to what data we're using, and they can go see their profile and see their data. And at any point, they can click delete all my data I'm paying and put their credit card in. If they did that, they would have the high ground. That's my belief.

SPEAKER_76: Yeah, I believe they brought this on themselves. Oh, they 100% did. Like 100% most with just blame Zuck most with the most reaching,

SPEAKER_15: arrogance, greed, and complete lack of empathy.

SPEAKER_120: It's disregard for the impact of your product, the negative, there's always negative, there's negatives to almost every product, I wouldn't say all products. But there's, there's a negative for all products. Listen, if you make, yeah, Coca Cola, too much water, you'll die.

SPEAKER_369: There's a negative to everything in excess, you know, Coca Cola. Yeah.

SPEAKER_370: It's got a lot of sugar in it. But we also make sparkling water. And we also make a diet version.

SPEAKER_21: So you chose Coca Cola, and it says how much sugar it is. And by the way, we make a Coca Cola in those

SPEAKER_372: little cute cans, you know, little cute six ounce cans, we make the 12 ounce can, a 16 ounce bottle

SPEAKER_121: and a 32 ounce bottle, you, you if you're blaming us for being fat, but why didn't you just drink one of

SPEAKER_374: the six ounce ones? Yeah, you drank 232 ounce ones a day? Did you ever consider the diet? Or maybe you

SPEAKER_21: take, maybe drink two sparkling waters have some Dasani in between guzzling sugar water? You can't

Jason Calacanis: sue Coca Cola, they provide a range of options to you. Right? I mean, Nick puts it perfectly, actually, producer Nick, social media started as Coca Cola and became cigarettes.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they doubled down. I mean, that's beautiful. And then they doubled down on lying about it on

SPEAKER_377: covering up how bad it was cover up is worse than the crime is worse than the crime. I mean,

SPEAKER_05: that is beautiful. Like that is 100% what happened. And they never sent Zucks fault took control of the

SPEAKER_01: tumor ever. 100% on Zuck. If Kevin, I'm sorry, I'm putting Jack in here like this is this what much said today, there's no way I'm letting Jack off the hook for this. No way. But I will say the,

SPEAKER_21: the social media standard was set by the leader who bought Instagram and WhatsApp, and just was like, we're, we're going to make this about your data and selling it to the highest bidder. And you know,

SPEAKER_383: that makes it hard for everybody else to come up with a competing service. I think if at some point,

Jason Calacanis: it's not only data, it's also we're gonna let whatever we're gonna let everything go, we're gonna let everything fly on this platform, we're gonna let people say what they want,

SPEAKER_01: we're gonna let them like, you know, pile on harass people off of it. Like yesterday, when I was talking about speech, I think there was the impression that I thought that the problem was that the platforms don't regulate speech enough. It's that they spent so little time regulating speech that now my speech is infringed by a bunch of like, bots who make it no fun to say anything on Twitter. I don't even bots. Actually, I mean, people, actual just a holes on Twitter, who make it not fun to be there. You saw what I like a free speech lawsuit, that's basically about other users.

SPEAKER_11: You saw what I did my Twitter. I now I'm following anybody who quote retweets I talked

SPEAKER_09: about yesterday. Anybody who quote retweets me anybody who like something I just follow like 500 those people a day. I only let those people who I follow now comment and then people who want to comment on my stuff. They now DM me, or they quote to me, Hey, Jake, how can you follow me so I can comment? And I'm like, Okay. And then if they say something obnoxious, when I, when I unfollow

SPEAKER_11: them, they can't reply, it's made it like a full time job. It is. But I have some tools, I have some tips and techniques and people helping, let's just leave it at that. I have a little social media team, but this experiment is working. So I don't know how you productize my little thing. But there is a default,

SPEAKER_05: make it the default would be great. Yeah. Like, I mean, prove I mean, I have a private Instagram, I have to approve every follower. I know you prove let me have a default. Let me start

SPEAKER_196: a default profile on Twitter. No one can follow me unless I want them to.

SPEAKER_11: That's the closed following. So there's Yeah, they just, again, they just not studying the user

SPEAKER_127: behavior because they kind of have half of that, which is you can have a private account, right? What if you it's not that you don't want to have I want a public account, you just want bots. The amount of bots I'm getting is also insane. I got MAGA brigading combined with bots. And so now Twitter

SPEAKER_76: is not livable for me anymore. And it's it's getting worse for some reason. I don't know what's going on. Maybe they're just not paying attention to the profitable. It's it's the online pod. Okay,

SPEAKER_402: it's also talking about the Ukraine and Biden and Trump. That's causing this brigading. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: it's fair point. Oh, yeah. All right. So let's talk about this sort of interesting. This is like really fascinating move actually by the storied investment firm KKR, which is tokenizing part of a new fund in order to let individual investors put in more specific amounts. Let's break this down a little bit. KKR manages $491 billion in assets. At the end of Q2, 70 billion of that 491 billion or 14.2% was from individual investors. So what KKR is trying to do now is say, we want to create a vehicle for more individual investors to be able to participate in our fund. So they're actually gonna, they're turning to the blockchain. KKR is tokenizing part of its health, its second healthcare strategic growth fund on the avalanche blockchain. They just finished

SPEAKER_05: raising that fund a $4 billion fund earlier this year, they said this is the first time a major private equity firm has ever made a portion of a fund available on the blockchain in the US.

SPEAKER_01: Let's get to the like, how the heck this is going to work. What it'll do is let qualified purchasers, so individuals with 5 million plus in investable assets, which is obviously high net worth, but not the like ultra high net worth that they usually deal with. They're trying to let those single digit millionaires have a vehicle here, they will be able to invest with a one year lockup period, they'll have to create a digital wallet and sign up with Securitize to invest in the fund via what Wall Street Journal is calling a tokenized feeder fund.

SPEAKER_35: Got it. So I all right, there's a couple different pieces here. Obviously, we talked about 506 C for

SPEAKER_298: venture funds. And we are raising launch fund for publicly, I talked about an all in I talked about

SPEAKER_09: on this podcast and starting next week, or is it this week that I have my first webinar?

SPEAKER_31: I have a webinar on my calendar for this week. Yeah. Oh, when is it tomorrow or Thursday? Do you know? I think it is Thursday.

SPEAKER_09: Okay. So anyway, on Thursday, I think 600 or 700 people are going to be on a webinar. I'm going to share with them, hey, here's the performance of the first two funds. Here's the third fund, what we invested in, we don't have performance yet, it's recent. And here's our plans for launch fund four. Yeah, let's put the cards on the table. If you want to invest, if you want to come on this journey with us, if you want to do risk capital, you know, here's the possibilities and the options for you. And so I did this because I just thought, well, all of the folks doing the $10 million funds that I've started backing with little 25k checks to support like the next generation of fund managers really lending

SPEAKER_11: my name more than capital, although it could be, you know, whatever, a small percentage of it,

SPEAKER_09: you know, every little bit helps. What I noticed about what they were doing was people with no networks, just by using Twitter, were able to close a $10 million fund. So I said, Well, I wonder what would happen with my reach, if I told people I was raising a fund, because what always happens is I meet somebody and they're like, Oh, I would love to be in your fund. I'm talking about high net worth individuals. And I'm like, Great, I'll talk to you in three years, because you raise them but every three years. And so I just want to make sure people know I'm doing it more because a lot of my friends don't know I'm raising a fund. And lo and behold, since I've been tweeting it, a bunch of my friends are like, Can I be in your fund? I'm like, of course, come to a webinar, get informed, make an informed decision, if you want to do that. And so I get I'm getting about 25 to 50 emails a day now, from people I know and don't know. And I say, Great, tell me about yourself. Have you been in a venture fund before? So I'm kind of coming up with a whole little script or process for vetting people and getting to know them. And that's what KKR is doing. They're just saying, You know what? Let's let let's open up access. Now it's not to accredited people with 200, thousand a year, but it's opening up access, and giving more people the chance to participate in very sophisticated financial devices. And I think that's good with that. I will say one primary

Jason Calacanis: difference. Okay. For whatever reason, we didn't feel like we needed to use the blockchain for this.

SPEAKER_418: No. But KKR is and I'm that part. I want to understand a little better.

SPEAKER_09: Well, what do you think the reason is? What do you think the value of doing on the blockchain is? Can you think of a reason why a blockchain would make this better than just filling out the paperwork?

SPEAKER_01: If you invested this way, and there were smart contracts attached to it, like I could imagine this actually being legitimately efficient. So that if you if you as a firm are that I don't understand the tokenization part. But in terms of blockchain, if you as a firm are recording everything you do on the blockchain, you have a returns situation need to return some money to your investors. That's all executed automatically. You don't have you know, there's no need for

SPEAKER_05: anybody to issue the tax paperwork, or no, that's all that or actually, they still have to do a lot of

Chamath Palihapitiya: that. Yeah. Yeah. So the the this is what? Yeah, I guess your confusion boarding could be easier. Like,

SPEAKER_88: I don't your confusion is exactly what I was hoping to get. Because there is no reason. Thanks. Thanks

SPEAKER_428: for the setup, boss. I just set you up. Sorry, you like just right around in the deep. I'm confused

SPEAKER_21: with what's the point of this. And I have had no less than 300 companies tell me they'll tokenize my

SPEAKER_09: fund. And when I say what's the benefit, they start talking about, like the general blockchain, and it's immutable, and it's transparent. It's like, well, we don't actually want it to be transparent. We don't want people to actually see this because it's privacy. Oh, yeah, it can be private. I'm like, Okay, so it's a private blockchain. So this is a private blockchain. So the only thing would be liquidity. Right? Like, so let's say you and I are QP's. And I own a million dollars worth of this, it's now become worth 2 million, I get divorced, I need liquidity, my kids are going to school, whatever the case is, a liquidity necessity becomes a liquidity event is required by me, the original purchaser. It's worth two, I paid one, I say I'm putting it on the market for 1.9, you get a 5% discount if you buy it. Theoretically, I could sell it directly to you. However, KKR does not want me selling it to a

SPEAKER_120: random person. They're not going to allow that. And they don't want me selling it. They don't want you selling it. They want you holding it. They don't want this being a revolving door. So that's why they

SPEAKER_00: have said there's a lockup period. And maybe they'll let people in and out once a year in an orderly fashion. So if you do want to liquidate, you probably have to let KKR know, whatever, I would

SPEAKER_196: say they're doing the one year lockup period could still be accomplished contractually minus the

SPEAKER_434: black blockchain, blockchain, right? Like you still, of course, we close the fund on November 1.

SPEAKER_435: Starting November 1 2023, people can trade, right? There's a Google sheet. There is a database

SPEAKER_09: somewhere locked up with limited access talking about security. And if you want to trade, you email some representative, which is what happens to us, and say, I would like to change the ownership of these shares, we will have people come to us every year at the syndicate.com and say, I'm getting divorced, I need to liquidate these shares, or the shares are currently in this trust, it's now going to be in these two trusts under these two names, I'd like to split it in half, or it's going to go to my ex husband, my ex wife, my ex partner, they're going to have ownership of this shares, I'm going to have owners, this happens all the time, I get it all the time, sometimes I have to do it, oh, my renamed my trust, I have to go tell all the venture funds move from this trust to that trust. So this

SPEAKER_298: stuff happens, there's back offices that do it, I think this is like a gimmick. And there is no smart

SPEAKER_21: contract. Now if it was freely tradable, and there were a pool of people in a slack instance, I don't

SPEAKER_09: know if they want to give access to these people. But if it was freely tradable, and I could say I own 1% of the pool for KKR health fund six, anybody want it, email me and I could sell it directly to them. Well, that would be quite transformative. That is not this as described that. No, that does

SPEAKER_15: not appear to be this maybe it's dipping the toe, I would say people are dipping the toe into this,

SPEAKER_05: they're just dipping the toe and they're seeing if there's any value in that I will say the good news is, we literally have the two guys coming on tomorrow. That we can ask about this. Yeah, Vinnie. Yeah,

Jason Calacanis: so deeper coming Vinnie and Sunday coming back on tomorrow for another crypto roundtable. And we're

SPEAKER_01: going to ask them what is up with that because we have had this week just as a teaser, KKR get into this and Starbucks talking about issuing NFT so we can all have a better coffee. So maybe we are

SPEAKER_146: getting and the ETH merge. So maybe we're getting to a point where things are becoming a little more

SPEAKER_07: like mainstream and usable. I guess we'll find out. Do you want to just give me the top level on the launch house stuff? And then I'll just pass judgment. Should we get this investigative piece

SPEAKER_05: by a Vox reporter in uncovered allegations of misconduct, sexual assault and security risks at launch house, which is that startup incubator slash social club that got $12 million in series a funding

SPEAKER_78: from A16Z. Allegedly, I guess we have to say they definitely got the funding. But allegedly there

SPEAKER_448: was sexual assault. Yes, these are allegations allegations. Vox senior correspondent Rebecca

SPEAKER_01: Jennings was the reporter for the in depth piece. And in theory, launch house that you may recall was

SPEAKER_05: intended to be a reality show. In 2020, they wanted to be the hype house for the tech industry. And over

SPEAKER_146: time, I mean, you can't even really say this is astonishing. Like they put like, mostly men and a couple of women in a house. And instead it was going to be like, in Paris. I've been to Paris's old

SPEAKER_07: house, by the way, my friend, I have a mutual friend and I went over for like a cocktail part of their

SPEAKER_455: house that apparently they're using. Her house had a club related. I kid you not club what could go

SPEAKER_21: wrong. There was literally a club like a blacked out room, painted black with, you know, go go pedestals with dancing poles on them and a DJ booth like literally in her house. She had a club that could fit 50 people 100 people. It was like a double sized giant living room. And putting that aside. You nailed it.

SPEAKER_01: The article noted the heavy reliance that launch house. I mean, it was meant to be an entrepreneurial

SPEAKER_05: community. But it was a heavy reliance on the idea of community. People started to think evidently that they were in a cult. And that it just got out of hand. You know, like, that launch house, we should say provided box with a statement saying, this is important quote, launch house has a zero tolerance policy for drug use and unwanted sexual advances. Anyone confirmed to have violated the code of conduct has had their membership revoked, but the spokesperson admitted that incidents did

SPEAKER_01: occur and said, quote, a very long time ago, in the in the very, very early stages of the company,

SPEAKER_150: certainly before the statement notes, certainly before they attracted outside funding.

SPEAKER_78: Here's the issue. I've read the story. Obviously, it's horrible. But they were studying religions

SPEAKER_21: to try to build a cult. Apparently, this is where this kind of goes off the rails. But a lot of people were saying the founders were obsessed with cults, and how to create trust between members and make them loyal. And this thing has like mlm ish kind of vibes to it. Yeah, this is my warning to founders. Number

SPEAKER_09: one, there should be no co living fraternizing, there should be no business like this, because it always winds up in the same place. You know, if people want to go self organize, that's fine. But if you start putting 10 people in a house, add alcohol, add drugs, add young people, whatever, it's just not going to

SPEAKER_21: result in anything other than problems, in my experience. And so it's just a bad idea from the get. Second, they were trying to build this like an mlm where people would convince other people to

SPEAKER_36: come. And whenever founders are being asked to pay to be part of a community, it's a bit of a red flag,

SPEAKER_120: right, you did have to pay like $1,000 to join. Listen, okay, I don't know if that's a month or a year or what that is, and what you get for it. Listen, the the sole house costs money, other places

SPEAKER_09: cost money, people don't live at those places. You know, the the battery here famously, I was a member in the early days, I think was $200 a month was 2400 a year. So you know, there are expensive private

SPEAKER_00: clubs that exist in the world. But this was like, preying on people who wanted to be part of crypto preying on people who wanted to be part of it. So this is the part I really don't like about these things is how they take young people, and they say give us money, and we'll kind of fast track you into this world. And you know, young people don't have a lot of judgment. And then you put them in a house like this and bad things are going to happen. So for founders, if anybody's asking you for money, that's a problem we have. I'm trying to think of the instances where we ever asked people for money. When we did launch festival was free for founders. The only time we ever charge was if you wanted to come to the dinners, and that was mainly because we had 15,000 free tickets. And the dinners could only hold 250 people. So we just charge for those tickets for founder university, we charge $700. If you come to all 12 weeks or have an excuse absence for one or two, we charge back to 700. So the reason we charge that is just so people finish the course deposit and we have a 93 or 94%. So we're basically just it's a little bit of a game mechanic. But anytime people are trying to charge you to be part of

SPEAKER_127: something as a founder, there's so much free resources out there don't pay people for this

SPEAKER_01: kind of stuff. It's really sketchy. Community is important. Sure. However, however, you're working. And so the fact that like when people got to launch house when these new cohorts come, they organize team building exercises called the founder circle that mimic religious confessionals. Each member is encouraged to share the most difficult experiences of their lives deaths of a loved one sexual assaults grave financial losses, a practice that employees refer to as trauma bonding. Right? Like this is where once that stuff starts happening, and you're at a work party run, it's time to go like I just, I understand that there aren't as many boundaries as there used to be between work and your personal life. But run, that's run, not a safe and right. That's not no, that shouldn't be happening. There

SPEAKER_09: is. There was a book five dysfunctions of a team. Patrick Lansoni where they talk about offsite culture. And one of the things in offsite culture is to build trust between team members, you would talk about your childhood and say, Hey, these are my siblings, this is where I grow up. So there are trust

SPEAKER_21: exercises. And so I understand people doing trust exercise and wanting to share stuff to the extent they feel comfortable. But this is different trauma bonding, trauma bonding. I mean, I've never heard that term me neither. That's not a thing. If you're going to deal with trauma, do it with a therapist or go to a circle with run by a therapist. And if you know, five people had rough childhoods, and they all opt in with a certified professional running that group, like there are people who have grief groups or narcotics or alcoholics anonymous or this anonymous that anonymous, of course, those are

SPEAKER_435: professionally run. Some running a startup incubator reality show should not be doing even if any trauma

SPEAKER_471: work pros, right? Even if they brought in therapists to run your trauma bonding session, it's work. It's

SPEAKER_02: work should not trauma be happening. You should not be trauma bonding. And I just don't I. Yeah,

SPEAKER_192: anyway, this is a terrifying situation. I do want to somehow people thought it was an investable business should Yeah, this is this business should not exist period full stop. I'll share some trauma

SPEAKER_00: with you at some point, Molly, you know, after a Warriors game, we'll go to Miller and Lux, we'll get

SPEAKER_477: the Wagyu steak and say side, the Caesar table, or we can just keep a professional, we can have done

SPEAKER_71: I'm gonna go professional, we're gonna have done Julio, but I don't need to talk about trauma. Like

SPEAKER_01: no, it's work. Call me a boomer. Like, I don't like a Gen X are here. But you shove your trauma deep

SPEAKER_435: down inside forever. Just do it with the therapist people. Like, what? What are a bunch of 22 year olds trying to find product market fit going? Why are we distracting 23 year olds? It was always

Jason Calacanis: supposed to be a reality show. So I guess that's why trauma bonding came into it. But yeah, it's just

SPEAKER_483: not safe. And also, remember, save your trauma for your mama. But yeah, that's it. Your trauma,

SPEAKER_485: talk to your mom. And if your mama caused your trauma, can help you cook it in professional.

SPEAKER_131: Yeah, exactly. Totally professional. Anyway, listen, this is gross, disgusting. But we'll

SPEAKER_00: reserve it. Listen, I even hate these stories, because it's all alleged and it's sorted. And I just want the people who are founders listening to this startup to understand the red flags. Do not

SPEAKER_21: live with anybody. Anybody offers you to be in a startup house, you do not need to go to that. Do not share your trauma. Do not be involved. If anybody asks you to go to dinner, one on one to talk

SPEAKER_09: about an investment ever, like, have coffee in an office in a public space, like just don't get dragged

SPEAKER_120: into this cult nonsense. If it is, in fact, a cult, but allegedly, I'm putting allegedly in front of this, but there's multiple people saying that their strategy was to develop cult things. I mean,

SPEAKER_01: right, it is always the I mean, everybody uses the strategy of cult building to build community like it's all because there's, there's a very, very, very fine line. And it's all in the it's all

Jason Calacanis: about who's in charge. Whether it becomes a cult or a community, it's fine, fine line.

SPEAKER_383: Almost every time it's one of these cults, it's some dude running it. I don't know. I'm not saying

SPEAKER_11: this case. I'm just talking about like actual cults in the real world. It's always some dude who's just got some weird relationship with women who can't just be in a normal relationship with a woman. It's

SPEAKER_21: always some dysfunctional guy who's trying to have some like harem or polygamous thing. It's gross. Run for the

SPEAKER_125: hills. Run for the hills. When you see this kind of stuff. Disaster. Speaking of cults tomorrow,

SPEAKER_81: we got our crypto roundtable just joking. Every time I come out of that I'm like, what crypto am I

SPEAKER_31: buying? I know totally. It's really dangerous. I have to deprogram every time. I think something's

SPEAKER_44: coming out of this. I got to be honest, I think now is the time. This is why I wanted to start the every other week crypto roundtable with our two besties who really understand this mollies,

SPEAKER_11: because I do actually think this is the moment that all of the charlatans and quick hit grifters go away. 80 90% are going to go out of business. There's no money to be made. And somebody's going

SPEAKER_09: to be able to build something real here. Yeah, the real stuff is I could not agree more. Like

Jason Calacanis: this is how this is the circle of life people like there's always a bus cycle and he boom bus cycle.

SPEAKER_08: Exactly. So if Starbucks is in the game, it's gonna believe the coin, the file coin data they were

SPEAKER_21: sharing. Because that's the kind of update I want. I want the updates on the projects that seem promising, that kept delivering, and that eventually delighted customers because as we know, the time between raising money, pitching grifting, whatever, and delighted customers in this world seems to be between five and 10 years. And in our world, it's five months or five weeks. So I don't know what the

SPEAKER_11: big delay here is, I guess the infrastructure is harder to build or people spend so much time on the financial architecture slash grifting. Everybody Yeah, everybody just got distracted by the

Jason Calacanis: investability part of it. Yeah, it was like, once it became a I mean, if it becomes a gold rush, it's going to take a minute to turn into a real, I want to figure out a way to create my own fluid coin

SPEAKER_36: that allowed people to trade freely in a venture fund, I would I can't do it for launch fund four,

SPEAKER_21: but I would even create a sidecar fund if somebody could explain to me how to create a coin that tracked even my personal investing, I would do this as an experiment, like, here's if I could

SPEAKER_00: take my J trading portfolio and sell, I don't know $10 million that mirrored my, you know, million dollars in trades like 10 to one. And those coins existed in the world, people could trade them, but they tracked my trades. And I made a vague on it of whatever percent, I would do that. Sure, like if people could buy like a small amount of it, and nobody got hurt, but I don't think that's

SPEAKER_196: legal, right? I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure that makes you an investment professional in some

SPEAKER_15: way that you I am but just wondering if there was a way people could know, I mean, yeah. Hmm. Hmm. I mean, that makes it investment advice. Yeah, but I mean, there are there are people do invest in,

SPEAKER_00: you know, mutual funds. So if this was the J trading mutual fund, then there was a way with crypto to do that. And anybody in the world could buy a J coin, or J trading coin. And it mirrored my portfolio, and they didn't have to think about it. If I'm making trades, they could see them or not see them. I would do that just for the fun of it. And I would donate whatever proceeds I got to charity or

SPEAKER_127: something like as an experiment. That's the kind of stuff that I would like to see is

SPEAKER_146: things that actually makes sense. I mean, I love the idea of just making that a bullet point for

Jason Calacanis: Vinny and Sonny every week, every every other week to when they come on and just being like,

SPEAKER_15: what's real? What's like, let's end every show with them with what's real in crypto right now. There is a actually one thing we should put on the thing was a super interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_11: Well, there's somebody created a Y Combinator DAO called Orange DAO. So if we could put that on

SPEAKER_127: the docket, I would like to talk to them if they could be prepared tomorrow to talk about the Orange DAO. Basically, the guy from I Can Has Cheeseburger, if you remember that meme site, I believe it's

SPEAKER_11: him. Yeah, I think Ben is doing this. So my understanding of it is 1000 alumni are in this DAO,

SPEAKER_127: and they provide services to the Y Combinator companies they invest in, but it's an actual fund. So they created an actual venture fund to invest in YC companies. But then they took a portion of the carry and said, we have a DAO over here. This is my understanding of it, which probably

SPEAKER_09: is wrong. But I want to have Vinny and Sonny. So then they put in the orange DAO some amount to the carry. So let's say half the carry 10 of the 20 points goes to these 1000 members, those 1000 members

SPEAKER_21: do work. And then they allocate somehow I don't know how this happens. A carry to the founders who

SPEAKER_09: either found the companies and scouted them, or who mentored them in some way. So pretty good idea to create a helpful DAO to YC companies that invest in as does post investment support. It sounds

SPEAKER_11: like it'll also be fun to be part of right. So I like the idea of like, it's fun to be part of this discord and help companies. So I think there that might be an example of something to come out of

SPEAKER_509: this that is actually real and helpful to the world. Yeah, well, that's coming up tomorrow.

Jason Calacanis: And you know, what's happening in crypto this week, there's also the ETH merge, which is in theory, going to reduce the electricity usage of mining ETH by 99%, which is great news for all of us,

SPEAKER_225: assuming that miners stick with us. We'll talk about that tomorrow. That's important. And I see that ETH

SPEAKER_11: is down. And so it might be a good opportunity to buy some ETH. I don't own ETH. So maybe that would be my J trade for the week. Who knows? Maybe I'll just get a little ETH on the board. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Follow at Molly Wood. Give her a retweet. Give her a heart, whatever you want to do. Follow her. She's a great follow. Follow TWI startups, follow at Jason.

SPEAKER_76: And yeah, be kind to each other. Okay? Be kind to each other. I love that. Just be kind to each other. Like I'm just I'm tired of jerks right now. I'm just having a zero jerk

SPEAKER_120: policy. Yeah, for my brigaded weekend. I'm just like, wow, everybody's I mean, criticism is fine if

SPEAKER_00: it's constructive. So I just I have to teach people have your criticism. I said to people, if you think I'm interrupting sacks or freeberg too much, just give me the timestamp. And let's discuss it. And you know, like one or two of them like, Okay, yeah, I guess I didn't need to interject there. And then the majority of them was like, that's perfect moderation. Actually, I broke it down. I was like, Okay, the person droned on with repetitive information that we've all heard before. And I said, give us forward looking information. And I like, and then intelligently went to another bestie. Like I felt like perfect moderation. And other places, maybe not. But I

SPEAKER_02: just thought most people want to give me feedback times. Most of the time, this is not ever about

SPEAKER_127: mechanics. It is only about philosophy. I didn't notice the time. I will say four to five times when people have an issue with my moderation, I go look at their profile, and I look at their likes and their MAGA. One out of five times it is somebody who's you know, whatever neutral left, right, whatever doesn't matter, but they actually have a good point. And so I I'll take a note anytime as Steph Curry of moderating, by all means, if you can tell me how to hit another three pointer a game or increase my shooting percentage by one or two percent, I'll take it like that's why I'm Steph Curry of but make it constructive folks give me a specific timestamp. Even on this show if I if I talk over Molly or whatever, I get excited. Just tell me, hey, let it breathe this timestamp. Then, you know, and DM it to me. By all means,

SPEAKER_225: That's really generous of you. Because sure, we do all want to get better. But also like people,

SPEAKER_448: you do it. Like, it's it is this is live off of the cuff, right? Like we've got no I don't know,

SPEAKER_01: like I get I have zero tolerance for people who are like, um, you misspoke in this situation. I was like, Oh, really? In the course of a two hour extemporaneous conversation, I misspoke or did not have a fact directly at my fingertips or may have slightly interrupted someone one time out of the 10,000

SPEAKER_30: in conversational interaction. Like, you know, when you're alive 10 hours a week for 10 years,

SPEAKER_535: yes, you can talk to us zip your Twitter. All right, everybody, we'll see you tomorrow. Okay, bye. Sorry, it's getting off our chest.