SPEAKER_03: Welcome to This Week in Android. I am your host, Ashley Eskeva. And Jeff, you're back.

SPEAKER_04: I am back.

SPEAKER_03: You're back from Oregon.

SPEAKER_05: Yep, it was nice.

SPEAKER_03: I missed you a little bit.

SPEAKER_05: It was actually sunnier there than it was here. Was it? Yeah, it was really cold earlier this week. Portland slash Seattle area.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, you took the sunshine away from us.

SPEAKER_07: Apologize.

SPEAKER_08: But now you're back, and that's good. And we also have a special guest co-host, Michael Ludden. And I have to tell everybody how I discovered. I feel like I discovered Michael. Because Michael sent me something on Twitter, and it was really funny. And I thought he was very knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_11: More awkward than funny, but yeah.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it was a little bit. OK, it was totally awkward. But it was like a little bit funny, and I was amused. So then I got a hold of him and asked if he wanted to come in and sit with us.

SPEAKER_13: So thanks for coming today. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you made it out of court in time. I know, yeah. Yeah, and he's got a G1, so he's like an original Android adopter.

SPEAKER_18: Old school. Yeah, seriously old school. I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_17: I was in court, but let's not talk about that. This isn't a show.

SPEAKER_18: Well, let's just get right down to the news.

SPEAKER_08: So a lot of stuff happened in the last 48 hours.

SPEAKER_13: Google I.O. basically came to town and destroyed everything and everyone in its path. Yeah, exactly. See, by the way, somebody asked if you found a time machine for that G1.

SPEAKER_25: Thank you.

SPEAKER_13: So Google comes to town for I.O. and now officially announces Froyo. And they actually announced a target date for Gingerbread. So we're even getting ahead of ourselves here.

SPEAKER_26: That's exciting.

SPEAKER_13: So let's, again, I want to just say, if you didn't watch the Google keynote yesterday for Android, the specific Android keynote, I am pretty sure I burst into tears at the exact moment where they gave an Evo to every single attendee of I.O.

SPEAKER_28: It's sort of like that part in Star Wars and they blow up the planet. No! With thousands of voices screaming at it once and suddenly silence.

SPEAKER_08: No, it's the million voices inside me were screaming and were suddenly silenced. I was just, yeah, exactly. Everybody noticed on Twitter, if you follow me on Twitter. I was slightly devastated. But after lots of Xanax and a bottle of wine last night, I'm okay. So, but anyway, there's too much to talk about for me to whine about this anymore. So let's talk Froyo. Yes.

SPEAKER_33: Okay.

SPEAKER_13: Speed increases. They announced the JIT compiler for apps and the V8 JavaScript engine. So basically we're looking at it swimming laps around. It literally laps when they showed the, they showed how fast it moves by this web app that has a little Android swimming in a square. And it literally swam laps around the iPad even. And we're looking at two and a half to five times the current browsing performance.

SPEAKER_35: I prefer when they put it 450% increase. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_36: What? It makes it sound so much faster.

SPEAKER_37: And it makes me think what's been wrong up until now that they can increase the speed that much. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah. That's pretty sweet. Especially for people with older hardware even. Because they're going to see an increase. You don't have to buy a new phone to get this sweet speed increase. Yeah, you're totally old phone.

SPEAKER_43: You won't even need a new phone. It'll be four times as fast.

SPEAKER_47: They're not going to release it on this. They're going to need hackers to do it. I know.

SPEAKER_08: I was going to say, you're going to have to hack that thing. Because I don't think it's going to see an official 2.2 upgrade. I think 1.5, 1.6 is the last of it for you.

SPEAKER_17: It is. I need an Evo 4G.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah. Everybody does. Everyone needs an Evo.

SPEAKER_17: In the world.

SPEAKER_13: Of course. Also, everybody knows support for Flash and Flash Air. We all knew it was coming.

SPEAKER_08: But for me, the question is, will sites like Hulu support Flash? No. You don't think so?

SPEAKER_49: Well, they said they won't. It was already blocked when people tried the site. Like, tried the live thing.

SPEAKER_08: Through Skyfire.

SPEAKER_49: Yeah.

SPEAKER_50: But not through.

SPEAKER_13: Because Skyfire had done Flashlight. And people were saying that it worked. And then all of a sudden it got blocked. And then it worked again. And then it got blocked.

SPEAKER_53: I think I read on Engadget or something that they blocked. They blocked Hulu when they were running the 2.2 on the Nexus. Sad. I don't know why they keep doing that.

SPEAKER_54: That's interesting.

SPEAKER_57: That is strange. I'm trying to think how they can do that. There's probably a way to spoof it. There's got to be. There's got to be ways around it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03: There's got to be ways around it.

SPEAKER_08: But I'm very curious as to how Hulu is going to respond to Flash being on mobile phones.

SPEAKER_37: Well, they're releasing a paid subscription service for the iPad, aren't they? Where you have to buy the app for $9.95 or something. I think they probably want to do that for every...

SPEAKER_64: Oh, that would explain why they'd be blocking it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_37: Because I was going to say...

SPEAKER_68: So then it would work. Because it's lame. But you have to use the app. Yeah. That would make sense. As long as it works, whatever. Yeah, I guess so.

SPEAKER_70: But so in addition to Flash, we also have... This is one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_50: I was a little bit skeptical at first, but push data over the cloud.

SPEAKER_73: I don't get this.

SPEAKER_50: Okay, so you're like, I really have no idea. So it was really cool to watch them.

SPEAKER_13: Like, for example, they'd pull up a set of directions in Google Maps on their laptop. And then there'd be a button in the Chrome browser that would send it over the cloud to your phone.

SPEAKER_76: I have that button already, actually.

SPEAKER_36: And it would instantly launch the navigation app in your phone and pull up that map.

SPEAKER_56: I have that button. It's called email. I actually just email it to myself. But it's not email.

SPEAKER_78: But it's not email. I know. But they're upgrading. It's an upgrade. That's right.

SPEAKER_79: It's for easy programmers. I know. Exactly. Take all these extra steps.

SPEAKER_13: And then the other thing was that I really liked was, finally, there's going to be an update all option in the market. Yes.

SPEAKER_82: That is awesome. That is awesome. It's dumb. I didn't have that before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_50: I was going to say, I'm not going to say it's awesome. I'm going to say about time.

SPEAKER_08: Like, that's, I'm kind of offended that we haven't had that since the beginning. It's just silly.

SPEAKER_13: And then, you know, the other, you're going to be able to load apps on SD cards or move them to SD cards, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_76: Which I actually already do.

SPEAKER_37: Actually, they're following a lot of what the hackers have already done with the apps to SD card stuff, the tethering, which we'll get into later and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_36: Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: Well, the tethering, I mean, you brought that up just now. I mean, now they're doing automatic integrated tethering and integrated hotspots.

SPEAKER_08: Unfortunately, we're probably still going to be dealing with carriers, regulating and charging for its use. But I'm sure you and you both know that hackers are going to easily get around that.

SPEAKER_53: I'm not going to say that for the last year and a half, I've been using T-Mobile 3G for free on my computer. I'm not going to say that. But it's possible. I will say that it's possible.

SPEAKER_18: You're like, that's why I was in court today. No.

SPEAKER_13: And then the other thing that they announced that's sort of new is the way that they're integrating ads into mobile space. And we don't really talk a lot about ads here. Like, I mean, I know we talked about iAd when they announced it. But basically, their mobile advertising integrates AdMob. Oh, $30 fee for Evo. I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_95: For the hotspot thing. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_13: For the hotspot. I mean, everybody, if you hack around it, yeah, I'm sure. But I don't know. It's... Yeah, I don't know how it's going to work with it.

SPEAKER_08: If I was in a 4G city, I think I would want to work around that. But I'm not. So, not yet anyway.

SPEAKER_97: You could be in breach of contract, though. You, like, void your warranty. They could arrest you, whatever.

SPEAKER_13: Or they, like, remotely brick your phone or something. That would freak me out. But, so their mobile advertising is pretty cool. They had some simple rotating ads that just sort of... Very inobtrusive, like they are in Gmail. But then they also had these apps that you could kind of pull down a shade. And then it would open up to a full ad. I mean, it would be either... It could be a movie. It could be... I mean, it could be anything. And so it's not necessarily the sort of app-y sort of ads that iAd has. Which I don't... Personally, for me, like, I don't have time to sit there and, like, play around with, like, games inside an ad. So, I thought it was a really... I agree. Nuno Maya said a very elegant solution. I agree. I think it was a very elegant solution. And also, all of this happens without closing or obscure... A lot of times even obscuring the app that you're using. So, you don't have to leave. And it also is open. Google put its money where its mouth was and said, we're going to let this, you know, this ad system work across all mobile ad networks that developers might choose to use. So, I think that that's something that you never see somebody like Apple do, obviously. But then on top of that, I think there are so many opportunities for advertising, which is really, really cool.

SPEAKER_100: And AdMob, their deal cleared today. The FCC, finally.

SPEAKER_13: I know. I know. And they finally got that cleared. I mean, I was a little nervous about that, to be honest. They're like, we're going to investigate this for any trust. Yeah, they do get first dibs. And I will fully admit that. They do get first dibs on ads and things. But, I mean, if some developer really decided within an app that they didn't want to necessarily use AdMob, that they could.

SPEAKER_50: Beaches in wallpapers, and he typed in beaches, and the ads on the top were, like, for travel sites. They were for hotels and things like that.

SPEAKER_13: And there's other ads that have, like, phone signs next to them where you click on them, and it'll call that different ad server or that different travel provider and all that stuff. Really, really cool.

SPEAKER_104: It makes me nervous, though, about, like, misclicks. Like, what if I, you know, click in the wrong place, and then I'm calling somebody.

SPEAKER_70: And then you've all of a sudden signed up for DirecTV or something, and you're like, oh, God, no.

SPEAKER_56: One click, no.

SPEAKER_18: So, and the last thing that they announced during the Android keynote was gingerbread.

SPEAKER_13: So, not only did they, like, fully announce support for Froyo, we're now, we've already, within the span of an hour, have moved on to gingerbread. So, everyone's phones immediately became instantly, not obsolete, but instantly not innovative and cutting edge. So, my favorite part of the presentation, slated for fourth quarter. Coming in December, fingers crossed. I mean, development soon is obviously subject to change. But this is, I think this means that within six months, I think this means that we're finally starting to see it, like we talked about, the stabilization of the sort of constant releasing.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, a lot of Linux distributions do six-month cycles, they release a new version every six months. And for something that you're constantly innovating on, it makes sense to just set a date and then release whatever you have that's stable at that date. Because otherwise, it's like, it's just arbitrary where your actual versions are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: Now, I will say, with the Evo, it came with 2.1, not 2.2, which shocked me last week. But then, also on top of that, like, how long is it going to take for Sense UI to get that 2.2? They're saying it will be second half of 2010 that everyone starts seeing 2.2, which will be in weeks. Yeah, it's pretty sad. You know, July 1st, so.

SPEAKER_104: I somehow doubt it because Sprint's whole business model is based on charging you like $30 for the hotspot app.

SPEAKER_56: And if you just have a little thing to click for tethering, then, you know, how's that going to work?

SPEAKER_13: But on a system, like, when I was on, when I had my pre, like, they have tethering for Verizon. They have tethering for Verizon that is available.

SPEAKER_08: Like, it's an instant tethering app.

SPEAKER_53: And it's free, right?

SPEAKER_08: But you don't have that on Sprint. That's not an option to download.

SPEAKER_53: Plus, I think, like, they're just trying to sell Palm Prees right now.

SPEAKER_122: So, like, tether with it.

SPEAKER_36: I don't even, they're free now, I think. They are.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah, but not for eight devices, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_124: That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_13: And, but, yeah, so here's the cool thing in Gingerbread that I was super excited about. They did this thing where you're going to have a streaming app where you will be able to listen to any DRM-free music in your iTunes or Windows Media library straight from your phone. I love that. Like, you'll be able to just pull it, and it'll use Wi-Fi to connect both your PC and your phone to each other over the Internet,

SPEAKER_50: which means any 3G connection is fair game for you to stream your entire music collection onto your phone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_56: I really like this because it basically punks Apple. It basically punks Apple.

SPEAKER_53: You don't need to actually hard sync to iTunes to be able to use iTunes on your Android phone. Yeah. And they can't break it. They can't break it.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah, exactly. And, like, I just, oh, man. Like, I mean, I'm looking forward to Froyo just now, but now it's like, now I want Gingerbread.

SPEAKER_05: This scares me from the music perspective or the DRM perspective is, like, how are they going to get away with that? Like, someone's going to be pissed off.

SPEAKER_133: Well, if it's your library and you've purchased it.

SPEAKER_57: One would think that it should be yours to do with it as you please. It's like a sling box, kind of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08: But if it's streaming and you're not hard downloading it to your phone, I could see where, because you're not necessarily making a copy of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_50: You're just streaming it from your library.

SPEAKER_17: I still would never want to do it over my 3G connection, but that probably has more to do with this than anything.

SPEAKER_56: Yeah.

SPEAKER_91: Well, I wouldn't want to do it on that phone. It would probably explode.

SPEAKER_56: You know what? This is a great phone, and I've used it for years. I've, yeah.

SPEAKER_122: I just bought a new battery for $11. Wow. That's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_13: That's really special.

SPEAKER_122: It's kind of a big deal. Big moment in my life.

SPEAKER_13: All right. Well, let's move on again. We got a lot to cover because of, oh, yes, your phone has explode.

SPEAKER_50: I'm a strong, bad fan. Anyway, Google TV finally gets announced as well. I'm going to go over really quick stuff with you guys, and then we'll just talk about it real quick.

SPEAKER_13: Google TV made its debut yesterday at I.O. Android-powered, so we get to talk about how awesome it is here on the show. Let's go through bullet points. It starts right up in your TV, not in an interface. It'll change channels, access your DVR, and your cable satellite company's channel guide since it works with your current box. Your own remote will work, or you can pick up one Google offer, or you can use your Android phone, which is super awesome. It'll work with existing TVs. Exactly. It'll work with existing TVs. The hardware will include a TV set, Blu-ray players, companion set boxes, all kinds of stuff. You can navigate with your Android phone. Since Android supports voice, that was one of the other things I saw at I.O. that I loved, which was the, he's like, can you point me to the direction of the nearest hospital? And it translated it into French, and spoke it out of the phone. I was like, oh, wow.

SPEAKER_50: Like, Google Translate is going to be so amazing. Universal Translator.

SPEAKER_131: Star Trek, it's coming true. I know, yeah. All of it.

SPEAKER_50: We're starting to get into the Jetsons. I constantly ask this question, like, why aren't we living in the Jetsons?

SPEAKER_13: But now I feel like we're kind of getting there. Like, they just announced yesterday, like, I know this is sort of off topic, but they just announced yesterday that they created Synthetic Life. Did you see that? I didn't see that, yeah. Yeah, like, it's the, this is like a huge deal.

SPEAKER_07: Traveling in tubes, but that's awesome. Yeah, it's traveling in tubes. I want transportation. They created Synthetic Life, which is amazing. That's all I want. I didn't hear about that.

SPEAKER_70: It's, okay, so back to Google TV. Yes.

SPEAKER_13: Third-party developers will also be able to make remote apps, so we'll be able to see what developers come up with, which, again, biggest point of Android, open source.

SPEAKER_03: Built off Android 2.1, but it'll upgrade. Uses Google Chrome, supports Flash 10.1. You'll be able to use Android apps on it as well, but not at launch.

SPEAKER_13: And there, the demo was amazing because it was such a seamless transition back and forth from TV to Internet.

SPEAKER_05: Aside from the whole keyboard not working.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah, aside from the whole, we need to use the second box.

SPEAKER_50: We need to switch to the first box. We need to go, yeah. Well, poor, yeah. It was like, please turn off your cell phones. Like, all the nerds with four cell phones each. Why would you use a wireless keyboard? That's all I have to say. Yeah, that didn't seem like the best choice. But, yeah, I just, I definitely, yes, I'm still waiting for a conveyor belt to my car, too, just so everybody knows. And it's available this fall. So you're going to be able to go out to Best Buy.

SPEAKER_13: Best Buy's CEO is, of course, on the stage to say, you can buy it here at Best Buy. And you can go this fall and get yourself Google TV-compatible products. I believe Logitech is making the set-top box. But there will also be Sony TVs with it built in.

SPEAKER_03: So amazing stuff. Really amazing. And you'll be able to watch This Week in Android on your Google TV. That's right. I mean, I know you can do it now with, like, a, you know, if you have an HDMI out and all that stuff and you can switch from your computer. But you don't need to with Google television. Exactly.

SPEAKER_56: Here's what I want to know. Can you build your own set-top box out of a computer? That's a really good question. You can set up Boxee or XB, what is it, XBox Media Center or whatever. But can you build, like, a Google TV box? Because I would love to be able to do that. Just put tuners in there.

SPEAKER_158: That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_56: I don't know what the hardware is like.

SPEAKER_161: I mean, it's open source. Probably. It's open source, right?

SPEAKER_158: It's open source, so I would imagine so.

SPEAKER_161: That's what they said, right? Well, it runs on Android.

SPEAKER_162: It does. Well, it runs on Android.

SPEAKER_164: That doesn't necessarily mean what the application itself is. Ah, somebody will do it. Somebody will hack it. Somebody will figure it out. It may very well be. I'm not sure. I'm just not sure.

SPEAKER_165: It might be you.

SPEAKER_168: No, I don't. I don't do the coding. It will not be me. I piggyback off others' work. It's easier that way. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_50: So we'll talk about the next couple of things shortly because I really want to get to our interview because I think it's going to be really cool. Agreed.

SPEAKER_13: Google is closing its online phone store. They're going to sell all of their Nexai ones.

SPEAKER_08: I don't want to say Nexuses. Yeah. That just doesn't sound right. Their Nexai ones in stores. Nexai ones in stores. So unfortunate. I mean, that kind of makes me sad.

SPEAKER_07: Yeah. Me too. I mean, because now you're stuck with a provider when you buy a phone. Yep. Which, granted, you're stuck with a provider if you want to use your phone, but it's nice at least being able to buy it in the clear.

SPEAKER_130: From a third party. Yeah. Yeah. That was true.

SPEAKER_56: Yeah, they were ahead of their time and they also didn't have places where people could touch the phones. Those were the two problems, I think. Right. It's a great idea.

SPEAKER_13: We talked about that a lot. We talked about that every couple of times. I want to be able to go into a store and touch a phone and feel it, but if there's a better deal online, I want to get it online.

SPEAKER_56: Yeah. I saw the Nexus One for the first time in my life the other day. A guy just had it randomly and I was so excited. I scared him. I was like, excuse me.

SPEAKER_158: It's like a leprechaun. You're like, hey, if I hold one of those, it'll give me a wish.

SPEAKER_53: But it was so amazing. I had never seen it. It's so thin and awesome looking, but I didn't know that even from clicking on the websites all the time. Yeah. Well, you can't. There's something different to like being able to.

SPEAKER_13: You can't imagine the scale of something until you see it in somebody's hand, like in person. What do you think?

SPEAKER_181: Two years, Google Store? Ooh, that'd be sweet. Two years? Year and a half? That would be sweet.

SPEAKER_03: I think a couple years, I think it'll change, but I just, I don't think it was the right time. Yeah. It's just, people weren't ready to buy their smartphones from Google, but I think once

SPEAKER_183: Android with Google TV and everything, it's good.

SPEAKER_56: But they're never going to make hardware. Like that's the way they're able to lure all these hardware manufacturers. They promised them. Like one of the guys, like was it Sony? He's like, it's rare in this business when we have no fear of another company, but we have no fear of Google. And I was wondering why he said that. And I was thinking like, maybe they promised them that they would never make hardware. So how would you open a store? I wouldn't believe it if they did say that. I was going to say, yeah, I don't know if I'd believe that. I mean, maybe behind closed doors, they said like, look, we're not going to, we're not going to make our own TVs. We're going to use yours with our software.

SPEAKER_185: That's definitely, yeah, definitely what they're doing at the moment. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_187: So how would they open up a store though? Would it just be other people's stuff? Probably. I don't know.

SPEAKER_13: Well, they already are doing, this is our next news story. Kindle for Android is coming to the Android market soon.

SPEAKER_50: And so I think that with the, once they start their Google, their app market that they sort of showed off at IO with like the really cool like over the cloud syncing, integration, all that stuff, I really think that, I really think that it's going to change.

SPEAKER_13: And I think that the Google market is going to become a place where you not only can buy apps or web apps or whatever else it is, TV shows for your Google TV, it's going to turn into books, obviously like, like iBooks is, and it's going to be things like a Nexus One or whatever hardware it is that they want to partner with somebody to sell. And then it just, you know, it already is set up on your Google, you know, merchant

SPEAKER_08: account, and then you just, it gets shipped out to your, to your house. So.

SPEAKER_191: I can see that.

SPEAKER_56: The one caveat with the Kindle for Android was, I guess you have to go to the mobile website, purchase the books, and then sync it with your app. Right. And then it'll download it to there. So there's no like in-app book purchase thing. Purchase, purchase. And then it's only for Kindle books. It doesn't play like open, open formats of books.

SPEAKER_03: But there was a thing last week that we didn't get to where it's, there, I think, well, Barnes

SPEAKER_13: and Noble's launching it for Nook, but it's called, it's called like something pub. And it's. E-pub, right? I think it's E-pub where it's independent publishers can publish their own books. So I mean. That sounds right. There's going to be a lot of garbage out there about vampires. Let's all get real here.

SPEAKER_50: Yeah. And werewolves. But I really think that ultimately, like the cream, the cream will rise to the top. Like they're the good.

SPEAKER_208: Let's hope.

SPEAKER_50: Okay. So let's really, really briefly, if anybody has a hero, hero finally upgraded to eclair just in time for 2.2 to get announced and for them to be behind once again.

SPEAKER_13: The, the droid incredible. They're talking about how it's still selling out everywhere. Still doing amazing.

SPEAKER_30: I had a friend who tried to buy one like two weeks ago and he's still waiting.

SPEAKER_213: Yeah. Crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_05: He's about to cancel his thing.

SPEAKER_213: And.

SPEAKER_05: He's trying to get a hold of Verizon. It's not been well.

SPEAKER_56: And now if you, if you ordered it, it's going to release on the same day as the Evo 4G. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08: So they're saying a lot of people are just saying, forget it. I'm just going to move. Yeah. Because my contract's up. So I'm out.

SPEAKER_62: Missed the boat on that one. You know what's awesome with the Evo 4G? You can talk and do data at the same time.

SPEAKER_08: As long as you are on.

SPEAKER_62: The 4G. The 4G.

SPEAKER_08: Not 3G and data.

SPEAKER_13: So, but yeah. 100,000 units sold a week. And also, I would just like to throw out a huge congratulations to Google because they did announce at I.O. that they're activating over 100,000 devices a day. Yeah. Which is huge.

SPEAKER_03: I mean, really huge. Yeah. Amazing. And I, like, unbelievable numbers for them.

SPEAKER_88: They said activating, not shipping. Like activating.

SPEAKER_13: Activating. Activating. Activating. Users activating Android devices every day. 100,000. I mean, amazing. So, you know, unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, but that's across all Android devices, across the world. I mean, everywhere. So, yeah. I am frightened by it, too. But in a good way.

SPEAKER_226: Yes.

SPEAKER_13: All right. Well, we do not have a graphic for our, it's not an app.

SPEAKER_03: So, but our interview this week is with David Wang, who is also known as Planet Being, and who's also known as that guy who ported Android to an iPhone. So, David, thank you so much for coming on the show with us today.

SPEAKER_230: I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_111: Now, Michael was telling us this morning that you officially dropped your, go ahead, go ahead and tell everyone.

SPEAKER_56: Dropped your iPhone 3G Android port today, right?

SPEAKER_233: Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_234: Like yesterday, I uploaded binaries for it.

SPEAKER_235: Nice. Nice. Congratulations. Thanks. The source code's actually been up for a few days, but I actually managed to package everything up and write a how-to for it. So, that's what happened.

SPEAKER_13: I just think that pretty much everybody who is familiar with Android and who is into tech is, they basically fell out of their chair when they saw an iPhone 2G running Android, running on Android, which was just crazy. And now, you've basically ported it to the 3G, and we've got, you know, we've got you here talking to you about, like, basically accomplishing something that most geeks only dream of, including myself.

SPEAKER_50: So, tell us a little bit about the decision to port Android to the iPhone. I mean, what made you decide to do this?

SPEAKER_239: Well, I mean, originally, the project wasn't to port Android specifically.

SPEAKER_234: In fact, when it started, which was sometime in 2008, Android wasn't even out yet, or the source code wasn't officially released. So, it was actually to port Linux. And, as you know, porting Linux to everything is sort of like the Geek Mount Everest. And, you know, you want to do it because it's there. And at the time, I already had been doing a lot of work on the iPhone. I'm part of the iPhone dev team, and we do a lot of jailbreaking and network unlocks. And I was already exploiting vulnerabilities on the iPhone at the bootloader level, which is right on the bare metal of the iPhone. So, I had a little bit of background. And when you port Linux to something, you're pretty much demonstrating a complete ownership of the device, like I would say. Most of us buy devices, and we have no idea how or why they work. And, to me, that's not a level of ownership that I find completely satisfactory. So, when I port Linux to something, it demonstrates that I understand pretty much every single bit of, you know, what the device is doing when I'm using it. I certainly didn't understand the iPhone completely when I started, but in the process of creating this port, I gained that understanding. And, actually, the same thing is true for Linux. When I started to port, I didn't really understand how the Linux kernel worked very well. And, now, I have at least a rudimentary understanding. When Android actually came out, when Google actually released its source code for Android, it was sort of a no-brainer to do the same thing, to use Android as the user land. You guys probably already know that Android uses, just uses for a kernel, a modified Linux kernel. But, to be honest, like, the modifications that Google has done for Android to Linux kernel aren't that big of a deal. So, basically, you have a stock, almost a stock Linux kernel under every Android, you know, Android device.

SPEAKER_239: It's important to know that the only piece of software on a computer that interacts with the hardware is the kernel. So, once you've ported the Linux kernel over to a new piece of hardware, the Android port onto that piece of hardware isn't such a huge deal.

SPEAKER_234: So, it was pretty much obvious from the beginning that Android was the right user land or non-kernel portion of the operating system for the iPhone Linux project. Very cool.

SPEAKER_06: Now, were you the only person that did this, or did you have help accomplishing this?

SPEAKER_239: Well, I mean, I'm probably responsible for 95% of the code that is on the device right now, but I did have some help.

SPEAKER_234: One of the iPhone dev team members, whose nickname is CPICH, he did a lot of reverse engineering for me, like, to help out, like, little jobs here and there. I would ask him to do something while I work on something else. There's another person called The Seven. It's sort of weird to say these nicknames out loud.

SPEAKER_235: That's right.

SPEAKER_194: I consider it the same thing as, like, talking about my friends in World of Warcraft. I'm like, oh, yeah, Akiram did this. And then everyone's like, Akiram, what?

SPEAKER_178: And I'm just like, oh, I'm sorry. I was in a game name. Nobody made it. Don't listen to me, please.

SPEAKER_250: Yeah, exactly. I don't usually talk about these names, like, out loud very much.

SPEAKER_251: Yeah, you type them more than you speak them out loud, right?

SPEAKER_234: Exactly. And, well, he did a lot of what's called a flash translation layer. It's a really, really complicated bit of code. And he actually helped out enormously with that. And pretty much now that I had a release, a lot of people are actually contributing. So, you know, right now I still own about 95% of the code. But I'm really happy to see that's changing.

SPEAKER_13: Very cool. And how long did it take you from start to finish to port Android on? I mean, how long did it take you from start to finish just to the 2G iPhone?

SPEAKER_234: Well, okay. So I looked at my commit logs, which is, you know, a log of every time I upload a code to the Internet. The first commit happened in May of 2008, which is, you know, as you know, it's now May of 2010. So that's two years ago.

SPEAKER_239: But I haven't been continuously, I haven't been continuously working on a project.

SPEAKER_234: I've probably only, I've only made commits in eight of those months in those two years. So probably it took me around eight months of my spare time. Okay.

SPEAKER_240: How much longer did it take you to do the 3G port?

SPEAKER_234: The 3G port only took a couple of weeks, despite the little details and packaging. So, yeah, it was a lot shorter because the iPhone and the iPhone 3G and iPod touch are nearly identical in the hardware bits. The iPhone 3G only had a newer multi-touch interface and a newer sound codec.

SPEAKER_235: So, and all of them use the same, what's called a system-on-a-chip that's manufactured by Samson.

SPEAKER_239: The first-generation iPod touch and iPhone and iPhone 3G all uses what's called a Samson S5L 8900.

SPEAKER_234: So they all use that. The rest of the ports are going to be harder because none of the other iPhones and iPods use the S5L 8900.

SPEAKER_235: They use a slightly different system-on-a-chips, so.

SPEAKER_258: Okay. So it's going to be a while before we see a 3GS port?

SPEAKER_244: Yeah.

SPEAKER_239: The iPod touch second-generation uses what's called a S5L 8720, and the 3GS uses an S5L 8920. So these are obviously very closely related chips, but they're different in very nitpicky ways.

SPEAKER_234: So it might be a while before we figure it out, but there's no way to tell for sure until we look at it more.

SPEAKER_235: So it might actually be pretty easy. I'm not sure yet.

SPEAKER_13: Well, you have to keep us posted on your journey to porting it to 3GS because I think there's some people out there who'd be really interested in that.

SPEAKER_234: Oh, I mean, I'm really interested in it, too, because the 3GS is actually my primary phone.

SPEAKER_235: Unfortunately, I don't have an Android phone, but it's actually my primary phone, and I would love to be able to run both the iPhone OS and Android on it.

SPEAKER_275: Yeah. That's pretty cool. I think we've had more than a couple people mention that they would love to be able to dual boot. Dual boot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_279: Dual boot's the big goal. I have some questions.

SPEAKER_07: What are the main parts of the software that you have to actually write? Are they just drivers that you mainly have to do in order to get the port working, or is it something else in the kernel?

SPEAKER_239: That's basically, in the Linux kernel, what's required is, well, there's two main pieces that's required. First, you need a piece of code to start the Linux kernel to get the pre-boot environment set up.

SPEAKER_234: That would be OpenEyeBoot, which I wrote. And also, inside a Linux kernel, you need to tell it where the memory is, like which part of the address space is actually the memory, and then you need to tell it the drivers.

SPEAKER_287: And, you know, not only the drivers for the multi-touch, but the drivers for very, very basic things, like the I2C bus, the I2S bus, the DMA controllers, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05: Did most of those drivers already exist, or did you have to write those?

SPEAKER_287: No, I had to write everything.

SPEAKER_05: Okay. That's rough.

SPEAKER_258: That is impressive. That's pretty impressive, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Michael, you're right.

SPEAKER_233: Yeah, I have a quick question.

SPEAKER_291: Is it running 1.6 or 2.1?

SPEAKER_239: 1.6.

SPEAKER_234: We have running 2.1 is just a question of using a different root file system because you barely – I mean, the kernel right now is the latest kernel. It's essentially the 2.1 kernel. But unfortunately, since there's no 3D graphics acceleration, 2.1 is very, very, very slow. I mean, I'm excited to hear about 2.2 being significantly faster than 2.1.

SPEAKER_235: So maybe we'll have better luck with it.

SPEAKER_293: Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_35: I don't know. Are you going to – do you have plans to eventually, like, optimize it to take more advantage of the hardware on the iPhone 3G and 3GS and stuff?

SPEAKER_239: Yeah. Right now it's running debug code.

SPEAKER_234: And, like, the worst part of it is probably the kind of hacky implementation of the NAND Flash that I have. So right now it's really laggy when you try to start a program because it's reading from Flash. You know, things like that can really be optimized. And the good news is that you don't really need to do any reverse engineering for it.

SPEAKER_287: It's basically, you know, people who know C, you know, hacking on it.

SPEAKER_56: One last thing. I triple-dog dare you to port iPhone OS to Droid.

SPEAKER_300: Droid. I'm just saying. Well, I mean, I don't have a Droid, but maybe there's someone.

SPEAKER_117: So you have to donate one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you can use your – Just put it out there. Maybe you can use your G1 there.

SPEAKER_35: Yeah, you can use my G1. You can have it. And I don't need it anymore.

SPEAKER_251: Once you get your Evo, you won't need it.

SPEAKER_35: That's right.

SPEAKER_251: You'll be able to just hand it out.

SPEAKER_50: So one of the questions that somebody was mentioning was, was there anything that you were surprised by during porting?

SPEAKER_251: Like, while you were trying to port, was there anything that you were surprised by or anything that was sort of a hurdle for you while doing this?

SPEAKER_308: Well, it depends.

SPEAKER_276: Do you mean in terms of figuring out how the iPhone works or in terms of actually moving that knowledge into Android?

SPEAKER_50: Moving that knowledge, I think, into Android. Like, was there anything that you were like, wow, I wasn't expecting that to go that way or I wasn't expecting this to be as difficult as it is or as easy as it is?

SPEAKER_308: Well, it is actually a bit of a – the thing is that I thought that once I reverse engineered the Apple stuff, the iPhone stuff, I would be able to find documentation and lots of help getting moving that knowledge inside a Linux kernel and then booting Android onto it. And unfortunately, that's not really the case. The documentation for porting Linux to new hardware and to port Android to new hardware is actually very scarce and inconsistent and not very good. And I actually heard from a Debian and Linux developer named Matthew Garrett that I was actually one of the two entities that managed to develop a halfway working Android OS on a new piece of hardware without Google stepping in.

SPEAKER_287: And it's me and Barnes & Noble, apparently.

SPEAKER_315: Very nice. Wow, that's really impressive.

SPEAKER_13: That is really, really impressive. A lot of people in our chat are saying continue the great work. I mean, really just, you know, keep doing what you're doing. And do you think that you'll actually – like when Android releases tablets, do you think that you'll actually try to port Android to an iPad tablet at some point?

SPEAKER_308: Oh, certainly. I mean, it would actually be really great to have Android on a tablet, I think. But, you know, the problem is that there's so many different iDevices out there. And, like, I don't – there's – what I want to do the most is to actually, you know, focus on getting these Android running very stably on these devices. And I want people to – I don't want it to be just like a gee whiz, this is so cool type of thing.

SPEAKER_276: I want people to be actually able to use it, use Android on their iPhones on a day-to-day device. And we're not quite there yet.

SPEAKER_325: So I want to sort of work on that first.

SPEAKER_13: Very cool. What's your favorite app on Android and why?

SPEAKER_308: Well, given that I don't actually own an Android device and I can't get the Google Marketplace on it, that's actually a pretty tough question. Fair enough. All right, I'll let you have that one. I'll say the web browser. The web browser is really nice. I like it even better than Safari, actually. Really? Safari, I often find myself, you know, swiping and scrolling through large portions of text and it's really difficult where you have this sort of – where you can zoom out on the Android web browser and go to a specific portion really easily. I really like that feature, actually.

SPEAKER_46: Very cool. Very cool. Do you – do you have any questions? I always feel like I'm like – I always, like, dominate this, like, question and answer segment.

SPEAKER_50: So my other question is, what – in terms of – because you do iPhone development and I'm sure Jeff is over here just like, ugh, like you feel sick. Oh, iPhone, yeah.

SPEAKER_13: He's just like, oh, iPhone. In terms of developing and porting things to the iPhone like you've been doing, what do you think is capable in terms – what do you think the iPhone and Android, in terms of the future, do you think that we're going to see more openness in terms of Apple, like, especially with Google? I know it's like, haha, but it's so funny, but like – but I'm really curious about what you think might happen in the future in terms of Google has been so transparent. Not necessarily – I mean, they're a corporation, so there's still a very solid level of non-transparency, but they've been a lot more open than Apple has been, especially in the mobile market. And I'm just wondering that if, by way of all of this openness that we're seeing, if Apple will respond in kind and maybe release things that in the future – I mean, like, if they start seeing all the numbers that we've been seeing, which is 100,000 new activations a day, they start seeing the numbers and say, gosh, well, maybe we should open this up a little bit more to developers. Like, do you think that'll ever happen?

SPEAKER_308: Well, I don't know. I would love for it to happen, but just given the personality and current strategy of Apple, it is very unlikely. I only see things getting more and more locked down. I only see things – I only see them using a business strategy that tries to shut out, you know, like, their whole – you know that controversy over Adobe Flash? That just indicates them that they want developers to develop only for the iPhone and not for any other platforms. And as long as that strategy works for them, they're not going to change.

SPEAKER_111: It just really seems like they're starting to, like, not take hostages.

SPEAKER_13: Like, that seems really extreme, but it feels like that. They're taking developers hostage and saying, you know, develop for us and that's it because you don't get an opportunity to spend the time to develop something for another engine or another OS. It just seems – it seems counterproductive.

SPEAKER_56: But it's working is the sad part.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah.

SPEAKER_50: Well, and, like, AT&T –

SPEAKER_56: It'll probably work for a while.

SPEAKER_50: Yeah. But, see, I'm wondering how long that can last. Like, I feel like it can't last that long.

SPEAKER_13: Like, you guys out there know. I mean, like, how long can it really last for them to be so closed to the development community and still really, you know –

SPEAKER_05: Well, I think a good sort of thing to reference with is just the Windows Linux sort of Windows Mac Linux operating system battle. Because Windows has had a – they're pretty closed and they've still been successful for a significant amount of time. That's true. Just because they had such a large market share. That said, however, they had, like, a 98% market share or 95% or something like that. Whereas, iPhones only got, what, 50% or something around there? That's right. So – 40 to 50. A little bit less than that because there's other stuff in there.

SPEAKER_346: I think it's, like, 46 or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: So, that's a significantly lower starting point than Microsoft had.

SPEAKER_56: But the way Microsoft got so ubiquitous is because they didn't actually make any of the hardware. They never made their own hardware. Right. That's true. It was open in a sense that you could have a lot of different hardware.

SPEAKER_349: That's true.

SPEAKER_348: And that's why my desktop at home is a PC because I can open it.

SPEAKER_50: I can upgrade it. I can put in whatever I want into it. Right. You know? Or I can build it exactly the way I want it to be built.

SPEAKER_03: And so, I just – I can't imagine Apple going much longer. Like, let's – I'm talking about years. I mean, like, I'm talking less than a decade. I mean, before people – the development community especially – starts to say, well, you know what? This is not worth the hassle.

SPEAKER_354: Yeah.

SPEAKER_50: Like, at what point is it not worth the hassle? I guess that's a question to ask you. Like, at what point do you think developers for mobile – for the mobile space – start

SPEAKER_13: to say, well, all of this secrecy and all of this lockdown is not worth the hassle?

SPEAKER_230: I guess we'll have to ask the developers.

SPEAKER_308: There will be a point when there's enough Android devices out there that people are going to say, I'm not going to develop for the iPhone. I'm going to develop for Android because there's more of my customers there.

SPEAKER_357: That's true. At that point. Pretty much it, yeah.

SPEAKER_154: Market saturation. Like, they say, hey, there's more people who are going to buy my app on Android. I'm just going to go develop for that anyway. Yep.

SPEAKER_56: Right. I think as long as Apple has sort of the edge on the innovation curve, as long as they still seem like they're innovating and kind of leading the pack, it'll be able to work for them to a certain extent. But I don't think that having a closed system like that, which actually shuts out innovation, they'll really be able to stay ahead of the curve, especially when you have all these

SPEAKER_53: things that Android's thrown at it with tethering and multitasking.

SPEAKER_05: I'm curious to see what their new phone looks like. But, I mean, look at the Evo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: Like, the Evo is going to kick the crap out of the existing iPhones. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_362: It's just, even, well, even, you know, even looking at a phone like the Incredible, which

SPEAKER_13: is not quite the Evo, but it's close, and the Nexus one. Yeah. I mean, these are all phones that are, you know, for, to me and to probably all of us, like, hands down better than an iPhone. Now, it's not necessarily pick up and use like the iPhone is. It's extremely user accessible, but I just think that, like, over time, I just can't see it lasting that long. Yeah. But, yeah, so this has been an interesting discussion, David. Like, thank you. Thank you for indulging us. Are you, do you think you're going to, you think you're going to get to work right away when iPhone 4 comes out?

SPEAKER_03: Are you going to get Froyo on there?

SPEAKER_334: Oh, well, I don't know. It depends on, you know, what the, I need to, like, look at the hardware and stuff first.

SPEAKER_372: But, um, I hope to.

SPEAKER_13: I think a lot of people really look forward to that. Because a lot of people really love the form factor in Apple. And I'll be the first one to admit, I mean, their stuff is very pretty.

SPEAKER_213: I mean, this is very nice.

SPEAKER_308: I think a lot of people are also lazy because, I mean, you have all these Android devices, or you can just go with the iPhone, and there's a really clear upgrade path for the iPhone. I think that's probably part of why.

SPEAKER_56: So people don't want choice to a certain extent, right? It's almost like choice overload. It definitely happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: We talk about that a lot on the show. Like, people just have so many choices. So, um, where can we get more information about the port? How can we donate to your cause?

SPEAKER_50: Like, I want people giving you money.

SPEAKER_03: I want them throwing cash at you left and right. Tell us how we can find you on the internet and donate to what you're doing.

SPEAKER_308: Um, well, you can visit my blog, which is, you know, I'm going to update with the latest news about what I'm doing and what other people are doing on the project at linuxoniphone.blogspot.com. Um, you know, you can also, my PayPal donate link is there. You can also visit idroidproject.org. And there's a really developing community there that are, you know, hacking the stuff that I, that I'm developing with some stuff that I haven't gotten to yet. But, um, yeah, so just check out both websites.

SPEAKER_08: Very, very cool. And, uh, you can find, if you want to go check out David online, you can go to, as he said,

SPEAKER_13: you can go to linuxoniphone.blogspot.com.

SPEAKER_382: Dot com, yeah.

SPEAKER_13: Dot com. And, uh, and you can also find him on Twitter at PlanetBeing. Uh, David, thank you so much for coming on the show with us today, talking with us about your port. I mean, I think it's really amazing that, uh, the things that you're doing. And I, I think I speak for everybody.

SPEAKER_383: Yep, it's pretty sweet. Really, really impressive stuff.

SPEAKER_13: So thanks so much for putting in all that hard work and, and really, you know, that's just, like, I, I was so excited to have you on the show when, when I got your email. I was just like, yes, I really wanted to talk to this guy. So thank you. I really appreciate having you on.

SPEAKER_50: And, uh, and I'm sure at some point we'll have you back on when you, uh, when you have successfully port Froyo over to iPhone 4.

SPEAKER_384: Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being on the show. Bye. Well, that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_07: That was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03: Really, really neat.

SPEAKER_07: That was probably our nerdiest guess so far. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: I was gonna, I was, I was thinking that too. I'm like, I'm like, you know what, this is probably gonna be pretty dense for some of my, like, for some of our viewers who are just here to just check out, like, what's the app of the week? Like, I like, you know, I want to see what I can download from my phone, but, um. But we gotta, we gotta, we gotta give credit where credit's due. I mean, that's some amazing stuff that's going on in the show, so.

SPEAKER_53: I often wonder why iPhone developers who are like, yeah, I want to know everything about the iPhone, I want to unlock it, I want to put Android on it, why aren't more of the hackers,

SPEAKER_56: because there's such a huge hacking community for iPhone, like, even bigger than Android, and Android's is like, I know, because I have to hack this thing to be able to still use it. Right. Um, it's, it's really big, but it's even bigger on iPhone. I wonder why more people don't just say, I'm just gonna go with Android.

SPEAKER_389: Yeah. Well, and that's, and that's right.

SPEAKER_56: If you want to hack it for some of the same features.

SPEAKER_07: Yeah. Well, it's kind of, I mean, there's different learning curves. You have to start back at zero. Yeah, that's true. Well, not zero, but it's start back.

SPEAKER_03: But I think it's like, well, I think it's like he said, though. It's like the Mount Everest. Like, you do it because it's there. You do it for the challenge, and you do it because it's there.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah. And then he just did it, like, which is great.

SPEAKER_251: He spent the time and did it. Two years.

SPEAKER_56: That's ridiculous. That's, oh, my gosh, it's so much work.

SPEAKER_251: From start to finish. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_53: He started when Android came out, and he just came out with the one for the 3G. That's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_13: Very, very crazy. So, really briefly, I just want to bring up to everybody that if you're on AT&T, and your contract is going to come up any time in the near future, be afraid, because if you have a smartphone and you upgrade,

SPEAKER_03: they have doubled the early termination fee for smartphones to $325, which is probably the craziest thing I've ever heard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_394: It's a little ridiculous.

SPEAKER_279: Especially, well, you know what it is. They're like, oh, when you come here, we just want to, like, basically force you into staying,

SPEAKER_50: so that once you realize what a terrible network you're on, you can't leave.

SPEAKER_07: Pretty soon you'll be signing up for years of indentured servitude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: Well, at least it's not as bad as Canada, where it's three years. Your contract's for three years, which is crazy. So, but yeah, just so everyone knows, I mean, I know the Galaxy, like, if you're looking at getting a Samsung Galaxy when it comes out, which is a very nice phone, think about it. Like, I just want you to really know that you love that phone, and you love AT&T, which not very many people can say that.

SPEAKER_03: So, just wanted to throw that out there for you. Well, that's the end of our show. Like, how it went by so quick. That was a good one. I know, it's already over. I know. Can you believe it? So, first off, we would love to thank profusely David Wang, blogger, hobbyist, hacker, on Twitter, PlanetBeing. Thank you for all the hard work that you do. Thank you for coming on the show today. We really enjoyed having you.

SPEAKER_50: As always, Jeff, it's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04: I made it.

SPEAKER_50: Tell the nice people how they can find you on Twitter.

SPEAKER_04: At Jeff Ammons, one word.

SPEAKER_50: It's really creative.

SPEAKER_04: I know.

SPEAKER_03: And then also, Michael Ludden, thank you so much for being our guest on the show today.

SPEAKER_97: Hey, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_03: And thanks. Good questions. Yeah. Really fantastic.

SPEAKER_97: A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_56: A lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. How can we find you on Twitter?

SPEAKER_56: Michael underscore Ludden, L-U-D-D-E-N, on Twitter.

SPEAKER_03: Very cool. And you have plenty of hilarious, amusing YouTube videos. Weird.

SPEAKER_56: Sometimes weird. Be warned. A little bit weird. Feel free to follow me and you will be entertained.

SPEAKER_03: And you can find me, Ashley Eskeva, on Twitter at my handle, AndroidAshley. If you are an app developer, if you are an app company, if you are a hardware company, if you're a carrier and you want to sponsor This Week in Android, I'm not going to say I'm going to beg because that would be beneath me. But come sponsor the show. Like, we have a lot of fun and we would love to promote your product.

SPEAKER_13: Like, I really am dying to do, like, old-timey commercials, like, from radio. Can I bring in, like, a mustache?

SPEAKER_50: Yes, you can have a – you absolutely can have a Snidely Whiplash mustache. And actually – You can probably grow one in a week.

SPEAKER_407: I just need, like, a few weeks. Just a couple days. You just need to sleep on it. That's it.

SPEAKER_03: I'll sleep on it and have it. It'll be great. But, yeah, if you're interested, you can always drop us a line at thisweekend.com. And we have other shows. So come check out our shows on thisweekend.com. We've got this week in iPad, this week in cloud computing, which is becoming huge, this week in venture capital, this week in startups, this week in YouTube, this week in Twitter. I mean, we've got every kind of imaginable tech thing. And if we don't, we will in the future because we are expanding and it's going to be great. But that has been –

SPEAKER_172: Wait, don't forget the most important one. What? Kevin Pollack's chat show.

SPEAKER_50: You're right.

SPEAKER_172: I always forget that one.

SPEAKER_50: I know. I always have it, like, right there at the end so it doesn't say this weekend. Yeah, I know. So I always miss it. I know. And, yeah, Kevin Pollack's chat show, Sundays at 3.

SPEAKER_13: Streamy award-winning.

SPEAKER_409: Streamy award-winning. Whoa.

SPEAKER_13: Very fantastic. Yeah, and he's – I mean, he's great. The interviews he gets, I mean, he's had, like, Kevin Smith on the show. I mean, he's had so many really cool guests.

SPEAKER_03: And I'd like to thank androidandme.com for our news, our preferred news source. They're some of my favorite people over there. Yep. So – and you weren't here last week for that. But, yeah, like, I love them dearly. Anyway, next week we're going to go back to our app of the week. And we've got a good app next week. And if you're into fitness, definitely come back and check it out. But as for us, that's been This Week in Android. Have a great week.