SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here. Really exciting to see all you guys here. This is a great, great turnout. Quick introduction. I'm Jacopo Lenzi. I manage business development and strategy for the Global Innovation Center at Samsung. I'll be speaking for maybe 10, 15 minutes or so. I'm going to introduce you a little bit to the Global Innovation Center and what we do and how we help you deliver on your vision and how you can work with Samsung. I will then pass it along to Mara, who is one of our Accelerator CEOs, who can tell you about her journey as an entrepreneur and what it has meant to work with Samsung. So I'm delighted that you're here to hear me speak, but I really do feel that the reason you're here is because of this. Not because of me, but because Samsung has such an incredible distribution capability for all of you. We are number one across many, many devices. And just as importantly, we touch consumers in so many more ways than any other company. We're in the kitchen. We're in the living room. We're with you when you're walking down the street. We're at home. We're in the office. No other company can give you this kind of breach. And I think that's what's exciting for companies like you. You know that no matter how talented you are, how strong your team is, how great your idea is, how awesome the technology behind it, there's many, many startups that have not made it because of distribution. Because they didn't figure out, could not find a way to reach their consumer base. And that's what I think is exciting about working with a company like Samsung. The reason I'm here is because of you. And because I know that to deliver on great consumer experiences, it is incredible hardware coming together with incredible software. And that for those of you that are doing hardware, you know how hard that is. Harder than most people expect. And we do that very well. We really figured it out. And we're delivering incredible solutions on the hardware side. But we respect and understand how hard and how different software development is. And while at the core of it, it's innovation. It's about understanding markets, making bets, moving quickly, delivering on great solutions. It is about the software with the hardware coming together to deliver on experiences. That's what consumers want. That's what we, with you, want to deliver. But we understand that working particularly with startups and entrepreneurs is different. There's, you know, when you work with any large company, there's going to be some similar problems that you're going to be talking about. And we hear this and we understand it. We're large. Who am I talking to? Am I talking to the right person? Are you the decision maker? How does this work? When do I know? When do I find out if you're interested in how we can work together? You tell us we're too polite, which in most cases is fine. I like that. But I know that in your world, what's important is you'd rather us be blunt. You want to know from us. Where do we stand? Do we like it? Do we not like it? You're not going to be offended. You just want to know so that you're not wasting time. You say we're too thoughtful. And that's you being polite because I know what that means. We're a little deliberate. Large companies can spend a lot of resources and not covering and talking to you guys. And you guys don't have that many resources or time. And so you want us to be strategic in how we think about working with you, to be tailored to your needs. And that's exactly what we try to do at the Global Innovation Center. Two main ways. First of all, we understand and respect what your most valuable resource is. And that's your time. We need to work on startup time. We need to be respectful of the number of people and resources you have to engage with a company of our scale and modify the way we engage with you to take that into account so that we can help you deliver against your goals. That's a little tactical. I mean, at a broader level, I think fundamentally what you as entrepreneurs and startups want to do is find companies that speak your language, that understand the opportunity under the same terms you do. What we try to do is really get behind you and understand what your vision is. We want to fall in love with your passion, what you're trying to achieve, what you're trying to do. Then we can talk about, do you have the capabilities to deliver on that? And how can we help you do that? Then we can look at risk and understand how we can mitigate that for ourselves and for you in delivering against whatever it is that you're trying to do. Some companies unfortunately end up flipping this a little bit. And that's where I think companies of our scale can sometimes get in trouble in working with startups. So we're really mostly investing up front in understanding what you're trying to do, why you're passionate about it, and what do you need to achieve their goals. And then let's work together on how we can make that happen. So who are we? So Global Innovation Center is a group here with a lot of folks here in Mountain View. I'll talk about a geographic reach that are working directly with startups to enable them. We're not a lab. We're not an R&D center for Samsung. We were created about three years ago to work directly with startups to make them successful. We believe that innovation and software is best done by small teams, consumer facing, working directly with the market, and iterating with them to deliver on those solutions. If we make you successful, we'll make Samsung successful along the way. So we set ourselves up with offices across the U.S. in the key technology areas. We've hired folks that have mostly been working in these environments for years. I'm here in Silicon Valley with a background in various startups, including ex-startups, including eBay. We have people from Google and other companies that you would recognize. We have folks in New York City as well working with the entrepreneurship ecosystem there. But just as importantly for you is we have invested in a team in Korea. So just as much as we can speak your language, we also speak Samsung language. And that's critical to help you be most effective within Samsung. So we have a group within Samsung in Korea that helps us engage with the business units, understand their priorities, and translate for them how best to work with you. Our job is to be your advocates and to make you successful. And if we don't feel like we're set up to do that, it'll be our job to make sure that things are taken care of properly, which includes possibly stopping the conversation. Secondly, once we have the team in place, what we really did was organize ourselves around your needs. We're very agnostic to how we engage with you. We try to understand what it is that you're looking for and what you need. And then we try to deliver against your various needs, whether you are still at the idea stage and looking for an environment to develop that idea into a product, we have an accelerator, which we can talk more about. If you're a little later stage and are looking for an investment or need the right partnership to help grow your nascent business, we're there. Or if you're at a stage where something more strategic makes sense, we can also work with you and investigate whether an acquisition by Samsung makes sense. And I'll give you an example later on of how we kind of work through that with companies. But ultimately, our job is not to funnel ideas or opportunities through any one of these functions. We're really looking to understand from you what's going to get you there faster, quicker, and what makes for Samsung and how we can share in that vision. And we'll work with you across these various ways to deliver on that promise. Also, within GIC, we do have the opportunity to house and manage some cross-business unit entrepreneurial efforts, specifically in this case, SmartThings. There was an acquisition we did a little over a year ago at this point. Because of the nature of it as a platform and working across a business unit and the nature of the talent, we thought it was best to hold it within the Global Innovation Center and give them an opportunity to grow along a different time scale that might be sought from our business units. So in general, I think what's important for you to take away from this is that we can work with you no matter what your stage. Whether you are at the idea stage and you want to turn it into a product. Whether you're at the product stage and want to turn it into a business. Whether you're at the business stage and are looking to go global, we can help you. And we have with various companies. We have the Accelerator that is perfect for experienced founders and early entrepreneurs that are at that stage where they're trying to take an idea and transform it into a product. We can work with you through partnerships or investments to help you grow that business from what probably is a product stage to initial revenues. And at the right time, if it's appropriate, whether through partnership or acquisitions, we can then help you take you global. A couple more words on the Accelerator just to give a little color there. We have Gary Coover from our Accelerator team that I encourage you all to talk to afterwards if you have any specific questions about that. But we've created an environment perfect for experienced entrepreneurs that really want to focus on what matters most to them, which is creating product. We've tried to take a lot of the overhead away about whether it be creating the right infrastructure, hiring, fundraising, all the basics that you really, quite frankly, don't want to be spending time and giving that time back to you so that you can focus on the product. We have an Accelerator in New York and we have an Accelerator here in San Francisco. And Mara, as I said, is one of our Accelerator CEOs and she'll be talking a little bit about her experience in that. We give you preferred access to Samsung, have access right to the very top of our leadership team. We can provide you that kind of speed to market and scale that only a company like Samsung, I think, can provide, which is one of the missing building blocks for many of you as you're thinking about how to deliver on your vision. And at the end of the day, we can either, quote unquote, acquire you into our company. We have had some of our startups that ultimately have been brought in to our business units and their products are now part of our flagship experiences. Or as well, spin you into the market where you can continue to fundraise and grow the business at that point. So this can be a step in your growth as a business, as an independent business as well. Our areas of focus are very broad, consistent with Samsung. It's a big company. We look at many things. We have interests and products across the board. At GIC, our focus is in software and services. We love open platforms. We have a very strong soft spot for that. We like opportunities that allow us to build experiences off of a common platform across our devices. But from a vertical perspective, it has been pretty broad. I'd say we've done a lot of work in VR. We've done a lot of work in connected homes. Commerce as well, obviously, with our Samsung pay efforts, which we can touch on. But essentially, no matter what you're doing, I suspect that Samsung is somehow involved in your space and can help. And if GIC is not the right partner for you within Samsung, but you still think it's relevant for Samsung, we can also be a good entry point overall for the organization and channel you and introduce you to the right people internally. A couple quick examples to just make this real. So I think Lupe is a great example of how we work agnostically with a company. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Lupe. It was an acquisition we did earlier this year, and right now they form the core of our Samsung pay offering. An incredible team, an incredible technology that essentially allows mobile phones to engage with existing point of sale systems. So you don't have to rely on NFC or any other technology. Anything with a magnetic stripe reader, you can essentially transmit your credit card information to. Everybody has this passion and vision for mobile payments taking over from credit cards. But fundamentally, from a user perspective, there isn't anything that broken with a credit card. And ubiquity of acceptance of a credit card is always going to be incredibly compelling relative to what an Android Pay and Apple Pay can do. What was compelling about this team and the solution is that they had found a way to engage with existing terminals without any upgrade on the seller side. And so that allowed finally for mobile payments potentially to really take hold because of ubiquity of acceptance. So an incredible team, an incredible technology, a solution in the market, but as we said before, difficulty in getting that distribution despite a great idea, you know, really challenged in finding that traction that an idea and a team like that deserved to have. So we first encountered them and invested in them. We thought they were doing something really interesting. We made an investment in them to facilitate ongoing conversations with them as far as encouraging their growth. We brought them to Samsung to talk about partnership opportunities, how we can embed their solution in our flagship devices. And we soon came to the realization that in order to enable them best and in order to get the level of integration that made sense to make them successful, we really should think strategically. And ultimately this became an acquisition conversation and we acquired them early this year. And now they are in our flagship phones as one of our key selling propositions for our users. If you haven't used it, I encourage you to buy a Samsung S6 or if you don't have one or borrow one from a friend and try it. It is magic. And it's always fun to get see merchants react to you just going up to their point of sale system with your phone and paying. And they'll tell you, we don't have NFC. This won't work. We don't take Apple Pay. That's okay. This will work and it is truly a magic experience. So that's the kind of scale we can give a startup. We can take them global in very short order and you can be the cornerstone of the experiences for us. And you don't have to go through an acquisition for that to be the case, but that's just one example of how we've done it. At the other level, we can talk about Perch. It's one of our accelerator companies. A great team, a great talented team with background in Amazon and other great startups. They came to us with an idea. The idea that the home monitoring system is broken. That the existing solutions are expensive and they require contracts that really don't take advantage of the fact that there's a lot of technology already in the house that you can take advantage of to deliver against the peace of mind that many people are looking for in the home. There was a lot of innovation that needed to happen to deliver on that promise on that idea. And they found within the accelerator a great environment to focus on solving the problems and creating the right experience, the right product without having to go out and fundraise or do market research or and having the access to the Samsung senior executives that allows them to work with us to understand how to use our installed base to deliver on their promise. So they just, I think they had an open beta back in October. They're out there in the market now getting great early traction and early reviews. You know, of course, we'll be market tester. We'll be listening to the market to tell us what's working, what's not like any startup, but we're very encouraged by the early results. So that's it. I just wanted to give you again a quick introduction of who we are, where we fit within Samsung, and how we can work with you to deliver against your vision and your needs. We talk your language. We talk Samsung's language, which is always convenient. And we really kind of work with your needs and processes in mind as we try to deliver against the brighter future for our consumer base, working closely with you. So if you have some great ideas, if you've got some great companies, or if it's just great talent that's looking for a way to contribute on a broader scale, we'd love to talk to you. I think we have some contacts at the end of this presentation where you can reach out to us. So I'll stop there. I'll pass it on to Mara, who can give you a little bit of the insider experience as an accelerator CEO and an experienced entrepreneur. She'll tell you a little bit about her journey to Samsung, as well as what Samsung has

SPEAKER_16: meant for her. Okay. So it's an honor to be able to speak to all these entrepreneurs and folks in the industry. As Jacopo mentioned, I am a team CEO in the Samsung accelerator. I've been there for about two

SPEAKER_18: years. And I think most of us who have been trying to build products or companies can agree on one thing. Entrepreneurship is really hard. I know we read a lot about unicorns and massive funding rounds and startup perks. But the story on the ground is always a bit different than what you read in the papers. And so I'm going to share a little bit about my real life experiences as an entrepreneur. But before that, I'd love to know a little bit about you. Has anyone here developed apps or is currently developing apps? Yeah, a fair amount. Well, welcome to Mission Impossible or nearly impossible. The app market is the most crowded market in the history of markets. There are 1.6 million apps alone in the Google Play Store, which basically means that if your uncle doesn't work at Google or your cousin, you have approximately a .0015% chance of getting noticed in a storefront that only features a couple dozen apps at a time. So I think this is my favorite example of how difficult it can be to break through, not to say other markets are much easier. And that's why I'm here today to tell a little bit more of how Samsung can help and why distribution is so critical. So a little bit about myself. The one consistent thread in my career is that for the last 14 years, I have been building products and brands for consumers. That's what I love to do. It's what I think about most hours of the day. And for the past eight years, I have had the privilege of being able to start companies from scratch. And to date, I've had one acquisition. I ran a venture-backed startup for approximately six years. And that's the story I'm going to tell next. And one product that is now going into commercialization with Samsung. But it all starts here with our moms. We all came from moms. And my mom was kind enough to educate me. And after I finished that expensive four-year university, I thought, well, I should pay it back to mom. I'm going to get a stable job. So I started off as a global brand consultant and worked with big name brands like Unilever and Pepsi and Yahoo. And basically, mom had something to tell her bridge group, which is always an important metric in our family. And I had plenty of good night's sleep. And I still stayed in hotels with feather beds and was able to order room service occasionally. And then at age 27, something completely compelled me. And I had to do it. I had this idea to try to reinvent bricks and mortar retail and ride the wave of omnichannel retail. And so I set out to create, with no product hardware experience or software experience, a 2,000-pound robotic vending machine with a digital storefront. And basically, life changed pretty rapidly. My vision was clear. I wanted to combine the best of e-commerce, bricks and mortar, and automation, and reinvent the storefront. So I started raising capital and building a team. In mid-2008, I had raised a half a million dollars of seed funding. And I had convinced Flextronics, the second largest OEM in the world, to build my product and venture into this new channel of retail. And then, 2008, you bet, time stood still. Venture capital ground to a halt. Angels flew away when I was trying to raise my angel round. And so, if too big to fail was likely to fail, then too small to fail was almost certain to fail. Especially for a first-time CEO in hardware and retail, which were probably the least favorable markets to be in at that time. This was the time of microfinance. So we heard that capital was still flowing and Asia and the Middle East, which meant that, yep, we got on planes, we reached out to eight degrees of our network and tried to tap into those markets. We even sent a deal guy to the Middle East to ride camels with the princess of Bahrain because we vetted her as an interested investor. But time was running out and we had to get to market on our scarce funding. So we did the duct tape patch. We pulled together our alpha prototype and with 9k left in the bank and two full-time employees, we put our alpha prototype in the right store at the right time and had the harebrained idea that we were going to charge brands to pay to launch with us, a no-name brand in the middle of a store. And it just worked. The brands ended up paying for our launch. We got a lot of sponsors, but mainly through a lot of hustle. We were able to launch with 9k in the bank this alpha prototype. And we were lucky. The world took note. We didn't have PR, but because our product looked right and struck a nerve at the right time, we got a lot of organic demand and were able to build a steady following, even with just two employees in the company. Even Oprah covered us. And we were able to win several industry awards and start establishing real partnerships. And finally, after three and a half years of bootstrapping or near-bootstrapping, the capital came in. I was able to work with some of the finer seed funds for Strong Capital and Founder Collective. And we even were able to deploy our units into many high-profile locations in the United States, including JFK Airport, Atlanta Airport, multiple casinos, and major hotel chains. But most importantly, customers loved it. Even in the middle of a massive downturn, we were able to generate retail economics that were comparable to the number one store in bricks and mortar, the Apple Store. Sorry, Samsung. And we had a vending machine that was doing over a quarter million dollars a year in revenue. The model was working. We had demonstrated that we could operate lean and mean and exceed our metrics. And despite being the underdog, the other competitor in our industry had raised over a hundred million dollars, we were able to capture the market's attention. But capital was still scarce. Our largest VC was unable to follow on because they were going out of business. And despite the strong performance in our metrics, I was unable to secure our B round. We had to bring on a banker. For a year, we went through a sale process. And we were able to get a Fortune 20 extremely interested and engaged in an M&A process. This M&A process took seven long months. And believe it or not, despite being a very early stage company, they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars completing due diligence. Our VCs bridged us to get through the deal. And we thought that we were looking at an incredible outcome for our team and our investors. And then our deal sponsor was laid off two days before Christmas. And we had to sell for a much less favorable outcome. So yes, entrepreneurship is really hard. But we all learned from these adventures and were able to continue to build on our experiences. So let's talk about making it a little bit easier or why join the Samsung accelerator. So I would say after eight years of building companies and products in venture, I believe strongly that you need to gain significant advantage. A great product is simply not enough. Remember the app market example. Just getting discovered is near impossible without some sort of anomaly or relationship or some advantage. So that's why I joined Samsung. Obviously, it's great to have capital behind you. But Samsung, as one of the largest technology platforms in the world, can give me a significant advantage in terms of distribution, marketing, and brand recognition. It's much easier to make those cold calls when you can say you're calling from Samsung, even as an entrepreneur. And this gentleman is the CEO of Consumer Electronics, BK Yoon. You might recognize him from CES. I've been able to demo my product for him twice this year. The first time was when my product was only a few months old. I did not have to go through 20 manager meetings or several months of due diligence to be able to get in front of the key decision maker of the company. And I believe that if you're able to see behind the curtain and really understand the other side of the table, you're going to be more effective as an entrepreneur. In this case, I can learn the strategic priorities of my most likely acquirer far in advance and adjust my strategy accordingly. But most importantly, I can focus. I can focus on making a product that people will love. And I don't have to worry about things like liability insurance and janitorial services and finding office space and the million other things that consume our attention. Not to mention the biggest time suck for founders, the big F-U-N-D-I-N-G. And I'm able to implement a process of lean development where we're very quickly able to develop prototypes because we're well resourced to do so and get them into hands of consumers and improve and improve and improve until we feel that we really have product to market fit. Which leads me to my last point. If you can succeed at Samsung, you have one of the largest consumer technology platforms behind you and you're able to reach millions of consumers with your product and make a difference in their lives. I will be available for any questions and you can also reach me at m.siegel at Samsung accelerator. And please reach out with any way that I can be of help. Thank you for

SPEAKER_00: your time. That's me. Okay. I guess just quickly open for questions. I think we have a little time to

SPEAKER_31: answer any questions you may have. Ten minutes. Okay. Don't be shy for Mara or me. Yes.

SPEAKER_32: If you start out with Samsung and you're looking for other investors, not Samsung as a solo investor, how would other companies that are in the same space feel about investing in your company?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So I think, you know, I think it goes back to understanding. Sorry. The question I think at

SPEAKER_14: heart is how do other investors feel about having Samsung as an investor, given the strategic nature of our investment? This goes back. So generally speaking, that has not been a problem. And it really talks to, we don't assume and expect to be the right partner to all of you. I think it's about you understanding what it is that you need to be successful in your business and how our distribution and our capabilities make sense. And we've worked alongside other investors very well because they understand the value we can bring to the table. And we're very good corporate venture teams. I think we have Brendan who's going to be talking a little bit later specifically about our investing activity and how he's working alongside financial and strategic investors that understand what we can bring to the table. So again, we're not going to be for everybody, but we work very well with other

SPEAKER_40: investors, if it makes sense for you as a business. Yes, sure. So we're trying to solve problems for

SPEAKER_14: users, period, right? And we are trying to deliver on their needs. And we, on a smartphone basis, are very closely aligned with Android, obviously. But we are an independent company that is looking to deliver on great experiences for our users. And so in the accelerator, and Mario can talk to this, many of the companies there develop both for iOS and for Android, sometimes first for iOS and then for Android. So we're really not focused on our needs, as I said, or kind of our priorities. We're trying to marry kind of how to make you successful and understand how that might relate to our priorities. But we always keep the consumer front and center in what we do. Mario, I don't know if there's anything else you

SPEAKER_44: want to talk about as far as iOS. Yeah, we, we've launched several prototype apps on iOS, especially when we're testing in the local market, just because the incidence of iOS usage is much

SPEAKER_48: higher here. Yes. So the question essentially is, I've been focusing on the consumers, do we also

SPEAKER_14: deal with enterprise? And the short answer is absolutely. It's not necessarily as an obvious part of kind of our efforts. But as a company, we're very interested in our enterprise solutions and working with enterprise customers. And so finding the right ways to add value from a software and services perspective to those relationships, which then complement kind of our devices and our experiences, I think is very important for us. Yes? It sounds like Mario's been there for more

SPEAKER_53: than three months. Yes. Okay. Many accelerators have structured, you know, a three-month forward. How is yours different in that sense? You know, what enables her and her team to be there for how long?

SPEAKER_44: So we are the longest standing team there. And basically, we have been enabled to continue because we have a really good process. And we've been very rigorous. And so we started a new product at the beginning of this year. Last year, we were in a beacon focused territory. And we discovered that that territory wasn't as ripe for innovation as we thought it would be. And we drew those conclusions. And then we were able to kind of reboot and focus on a new territory. And so as long as your methodology and the value continues to be there, you are able to continue to pursue your ventures.

SPEAKER_14: I think a little differently from some other models, these are not classes or cohorts. Essentially, we bring you on because we believe in you as an entrepreneur and a founder. And you usually come to us with an idea that we kind of work together in understanding how that best works and then give you the room to develop that within the accelerator. And so there isn't a clear time limitless to it. We kind of act and work with you as a VC would. And there's milestones. And we continue to provide funding as long as kind of we both agree that there's belief in that market. Or as Mara has said, there's opportunities to pivot as well.

SPEAKER_58: What are your basic terms? 20,000 for 6% or? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_14: Yeah, no, they're very good questions. And what I strongly encourage you to do is afterwards, maybe you can sit down with Gary and we can talk specifically about kind of what the what the experience is from a financial perspective for the users. But thank you. Yes, I would say we

SPEAKER_44: started this new product in January and we were able to get very rapid traction. We are actually commercializing the product and launching it at CS and it will be shipping on a Samsung device early next year. So and that's a product that we developed iteratively and very quickly. So once you have something that is relevant for the broader organization, you can get things done relatively quickly.

SPEAKER_00: Yes. So the some of the startups within the accelerator that have moved on within Samsung,

SPEAKER_14: I think we had some example one is a Pixie they were they went out as a TV app to enable kind of in screen information. They are now essentially part of our flagship TV experience and in the form of a button actually creating kind of driving the core experience around the differentiated experience of Samsung devices. So that's an example of that. So it's not just if if you're really coming to us with a specific product, then you're looking for distribution. Partnership is a quick, easy, clean way to do it. If but we really want to look at it on a case by case scenario. And if there's a deeper integration, that makes sense. If you are not just an instance and experience, but part of a broader experience that we hope to deliver over time, then we need to think differently about kind of what the right relationship is to do right by you and and make sure that we kind of also kind of get the right structure in place. So if you want distribution, we can talk distribution, that's a straight partnership. But luckily, like we can talk on so many different levels, the getting closer to the hardware has been critical for many of the accelerator companies and understanding how to make themselves different from the other companies that are doing relatively similar things in their space. I don't

SPEAKER_00: admire if you had any specific there. It's good. How many more questions? Sorry. Two more questions. Okay.

SPEAKER_72: In the back. No. Yes. I'm curious about it too. It is a product for the connected home. It is shipping on

SPEAKER_44: an appliance and there will be apps and there will be software that lives in the home in a fixed nature. And after January, I'd love to tell you all about it.

SPEAKER_74: It's a really exciting offering. So we're pretty excited about it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: The question was, how open are we to things that are disruptive to Samsung? I think, right? Is that

SPEAKER_14: essentially? So the answer is very, you know, like every good company that is thinking about these things, we'd rather disrupt ourselves than have others disrupt us. And so at core, very much so. Part of our job as GIC is to be a little bit of that cultural change agent, quite frankly, internally, to help bring some of your approach, your mentality to a company of our scale, which can always be hard. And I think, as Mara said, I think it is very useful for you as well in engaging with a company like Samsung to understand the realities under which we operate as a large company, particularly with a hardware focus. What you guys in software or people in software can often, you know, pass as a feature. In hardware, it's a bug, you know, and you can't really fix it. It's hard. It's different, right? And so I think, you know, those sensitivities, of course, permeate how certain things are approached and are done. But fundamentally, what we're trying to do as a group as well is to work within Samsung to showcase how innovation can happen at your scale and with incredible impact. And so we want to bring that different model, that different approach to Samsung, and not for our benefit, but again, for your benefit and in the process we gain. Okay, I think that was a great question to end on. I really appreciate the time and for you being here. And we'll be around and available to answer any other questions individually. Great. Thank you.