David Friedberg: Attention, everybody. This is an emergency podcast. Two Apple engineers with thousands of patents have left Apple to create an iPhone killer, and we know what it is. Humane today

SPEAKER_02: on the emergency podcast. Stick with us. This Week in Startups is brought to you by iQuit, a new show on Discovery Go that tells the stories of 11 amazing entrepreneurs who followed their passion while being mentored by some of the world's best in business. New episodes air on Saturdays at 11 p.m. This show is brought to you by Shopify, the leading

SPEAKER_05: e-commerce platform. Hey, everybody. Yes, it's an emergency podcast. It is an emergency podcast. We saw some incredible news in the last couple of days. On September 25th, Fast Company published an article. Two ex-Apple rock stars have raised $30 million to build the next iPhone, and so we got digging into what is this stealth startup. It's named Humane, and the website is hu.ma.ne, and we know what it is, or at least we think we do. We got leaks. We got patents. We're going to get into it today. You can follow their Twitter handle, H-U-M-A-N-E, and they raised $30 million by our friend Sam Altman, former CEO of Y Combinator, Sequoia Scout. He did an app called Loop, and I think now he's doing open AI and investing in startups, and Lockie Groom with participation from Mark Benioff, Plexo Capital. I think I saw O'Malloc. A bunch of people have backed the startup. Raising $30 million before launching a product is a huge series A and something to take note of. The two founders are husband and wife team, Imran Chaudhry and Bethany Bongiorno. They're two former Apple executives. Now, I'm going to get into their backgrounds. I'm going to get into the patents, and then I'm going to share with you the leaks we got. So they spent over 20 years at Apple creating some of the world's most beloved customer products from what we understand, the Macintosh, iPod, iPad, Apple Watch, and iPhone. And Imran is best known for inventing the user interface and interactions on the iPhone. His personal website, I-M-R-A-N-C-H-A-U-D-R-I.com is a huge flex with a scroll of thousands of personally filed patents from 1995 to 2017 before he started Humane. So if you go to that website, you can see all of these patents. And it's a pretty interesting flex for sure. Bethany is a former Apple director of software engineering. She was responsible for all software project management for iOS and macOS, according to what we've researched. And she played a key role in the launch of the original iPad. Now, of course, we don't have complete information. I asked them to come on the podcast. They didn't respond. But we thought this is really fascinating. And we have all this information available. So we should start speculating and handicapping what Humane is. So from the article, the Fast Company article, while founders Imran and Bethany refuse to reveal what they're working on, we will reveal it today, its co-founders seem to believe it will have the same kind of impact as the iPhone. Their goal is to create the next big computing paradigm. And we think actually, knowing what we know, if what we've been told is true, I think they have a shot at doing something very interesting. They have been poaching Apple executives recently, according to what we've researched again. Ruben Caballero was recently hired by Humane in March after 15 years at Apple. Caballero led the early iPhone team with Imran and was most recently a VP of engineering. So let's break down the clues here, shall we? Humane LLC filed a patent on May 10, 2018. That seemed to be an early version of the product. The patent was published six months later on November 15, 2018. And the patent title is wearable multimedia device and cloud computing platform with application ecosystem. Okay, so it's a wearable multimedia device. Great. That means it's not in your hand. It means it's on your body wearable. It's got a cloud component. Okay, who cares? Everybody has a cloud component up, but it's got an app ecosystem, which is a clue that they want other people to use this device to do interesting things. And in terms of the excerpts from the patent, there are some interesting clues. The device is lightweight, small form factor, battery powered, and can attach to a user's clothing or an object using a tension clasp, interlocking pinback, magnet, or any other attachment mechanism. Okay, so now we're starting to think like a lapel or something you would put like a name badge, maybe something like that. Maybe the Star Trek communicator comes to mind. The wearable, again, back to the patent, the wearable multimedia device includes a digital image capturing device, e.g. 180 field of view with optical image stabilizer that allows the user to spontaneously capture multimedia data. In other words, there have been other devices that you put on your lapel, you've seen them on Kickstarter that just record a picture every 15 seconds. They called it life casting, or people have attached a GoPro to their bodies and done life casting. Justin Kahn famously did Justin TV, where he would wear a camera on himself. So now we've got this in our minds, right? It's a lapel item, you press a button, or it's automatically recording, or maybe you use your voice. And back to the patent, document transactions, financial transactions with minimal user interaction or device setup. Okay, that sounds like the Apple Watch. Tap your Apple Watch pay. Okay, so they're obviously taking a nod from the Apple device. The content data includes point cloud data to provide 3D surface mapped objects that can be processed using, for example, augmented reality and virtual reality applications in the application ecosystem. Okay, so now this is getting really interesting. So imagine you've got this lapel like the Star Trek communicator when they double click on it, and there was actually somebody making one of those on Kickstarter to record audio. So this idea of a wearable device that records audio or video already exists in the world, but this one sounds like it's going to cost $1,000 made by Apple people and has a lot of killer features. Now this is a killer feature already in smartphones. So now we're thinking a smartphone attached to your chest. What would happen if you had a smartphone, all those components built into your, you know, blazer or your jacket? Well, that's what this is starting to sound like, because it's going to make a 3D model of the world in front of you. So if it's making a 3D model of the world in front of you, it could literally make a virtual reality session of you walking through your office, etc. And this would be generated by depth sensor, LIDAR or time of flight. Okay, these are expensive components being put into this product. So we're, I think this thing's going to retail for, you know, six, seven, 800, maybe $1,000. It sounds like it's got, you know, iPhone like pricing as well, maybe half the price, I would guess, of the $1,200 one. So I think 600 to $1,000 is going to be the price range here. The cloud computing platform can be driven by contact space gestures, air gestures, okay, this is critical, because this is part of the leak we're going to tell you about later. Air gestures means you put your hand up. And there have been keyboards, right? Remember air keyboards, or people would project a keyboard onto a desktop, and you would be able to type so that's already existed. So this thing has components of startups we've already seen, whether it's the iPhone and smartphones, or the lapel to record your life casting, or GoPro camera, or audio recording devices. And now we're starting to see, okay, you know, maybe this thing could do gestures. And so we'll get into the leak and the leak had some specific details about this. And the device will also include biometric sensors. So it

SPEAKER_08: could maybe be recording your heart rate. But it's not going to be touching your skin, it's going to be on your lapel. So I don't know how accurate that will be. It'll also include environmental sensors, I guess that would be temperature, it's going to include a, according to some of the sources here,

SPEAKER_05: an accelerometer. So that's interesting, but not that big. And then there's a flow diagram in the patent that says receiving context data from wearable multimedia device that flows into data processing pipeline with apps based on context data and user preference request preferences. So what

SPEAKER_08: this says to me that is, if it sees a painting, and you're in the Louvre, it would know you're in the

SPEAKER_09: Louvre. This is the that's the museum in France for folks who are uncouth in this audience. I know some of you maybe fall into that category. So the Louvre, if you were in the Louvre,

SPEAKER_05: you could, this device would know you're in the Louvre because it's got GPS, and it would be passively looking at the paintings, which means maybe it would feed to your AirPods, which aren't in this device, but assuming it would pair with AirPods, maybe would tell you about the Venus de Milo you're looking at because it knows it's the Venus de Milo because it knows your GPS, and it sense where you are and it process that data on demand. Maybe if you were in the grocery store, and you were looking at a can of soup, it would identify that can of soup and give you the ingredients, right? Or you'd put your hand out, it would show you the ingredients or tell you the prices, right? Okay, so this is really interesting. If the way the Apple Alexa, if the way Alexa and Siri works is they're waiting for you to say, you know, hey, Siri, or whatever, this thing would be passively using visual and looking at people, maybe it sees somebody does facial recognition and knows they're in your social graph, or they were on your Instagram feed, and they're a friend of yours and tells you in your ear their name. So that's super interesting passive processing of data happening in the cloud, processing conceptual data in data processing pipeline, whatever that means sending output of data pipeline to wearable device and or other device to present the output. That is the AirPods, obviously, or maybe they'll come with glasses. So this is starting to me sound like they will come with not only the lapel smartphone, right? So a smartphone on your chest, above your heart, a mini smartphone. And then maybe you have glasses that present stuff, or you have the projection projecting onto your hand, the lasers showing you gestures, etc. So you never have to look down. And if you look at the humane website, it's a bunch of people looking down with their necks, you know, tilted down looking down at their iPhones, and then one person is standing up. So that's the idea behind the startup, according to what we're told is no longer are you going to have to look down at your phone, you could be present. So here is a look at their website, they show everybody with the bent necks looking down. And then you see one person, this black shadow in the middle of this crowd, who is, and it says, how do you know it's time for a shift for a new kind of tech company,

SPEAKER_15: a new computing platform. It starts with imagining something better, and knowing what it's going to

SPEAKER_16: take to get there. It takes intellectual leaps, pushing the limits of what it means to live with hardware, and believe in software, pushing the limits of our thinking, letting go of everything we've ever done to bring about a better way. We believe humane is the future. And we believe

SPEAKER_18: it's for everyone. But that's just what we think. We hope you enjoy what others have to blah, blah,

Chamath Palihapitiya: blah. I mean, it's so pretentious and ridiculous. It's definitely from Apple executives. I mean, this is literally like a Silicon Valley, Hoolie parody of a Silicon Valley company. Because it's all about belief. It's like almost like a religious cult. I mean, you're just basically taking hardware that everybody else has done already, and putting it together in an interesting package. Pump the brakes. Okay, you're not Steve Jobs. And you're not Jesus or Gandhi as well. I mean,

SPEAKER_08: it's so ridiculous. But it is fun to go through this. And if you look at the architecture for the

SPEAKER_05: wearable device in the patent figure number eight, it shows as a camera system and audio system,

SPEAKER_08: environmental sensors, biometric sensors, a depth sensor, that would tell you how far you are away from the wall, or the Mona Lisa in my example. And, you know, there's really not much else here that is super interesting, a memory interface processors, operating instructions, sensor processing, this is all basic stuff, a touch controller, and a touch surface and other input controllers is the interesting, you know, the IO subsystem in this patent. That's kind of the interesting part. And the touch controller could be anything. So they're really thinking about putting a computer on your lapel that you would, you know, attach to your jacket or shirt, apparently, which is going to be weird. And awkward, you're going to leave it in, it's going to get lost. But anyway, let's just say it's a you know, we've seen it before with the Star Trek communicator.

SPEAKER_05: But a touch surface is a very interesting one. And I think that's part of the magic here is the input and the output. So without having to look at a screen, the input and the output will be occurring without you looking at a screen. That is the key innovation here. In terms of job postings, they're looking for a certain type of person for the company that that raised the 30 million, a camera design engineer, a camera validation, image quality engineer, and a camera tuning engineer,

SPEAKER_09: and a machine learning, computer vision software engineer. So this is heavily around computer vision, this all speaks for itself. They're keeping everything very close to the vest, but they put all

SPEAKER_05: these job postings out there. And the patent is out there if you know where to look for it.

SPEAKER_20: And so pretty obvious what's going on here. However, we have leaks from people who have either seen the product, or are somehow have had other people tell them about it. And we're going to get to those we

SPEAKER_08: get back after this break. Okay, I want to tell you about a new show I've been watching on the Discovery Channel. It's called I Quit. It's a story of 11 incredible founders who quit their nine to five day jobs to go all in on their passion, project startup with no safety net. They took the risk. Over the course of the year, they're guided and mentored by three successful business leaders, including Harley Finkelstein, the CEO of Shopify, and Debbie Sterling, the CEO of the award winning children's multimedia company Goldie Blocks. You may have heard of that and Trisha Clarkstone, the founder and CEO of the award winning creative tech agency WP Narrative. Give them all this great advice. So here is your call to action. I Quit premiered in August and it airs on Saturdays at 11pm. In addition to watching the show on Discovery, viewers can stream I Quit by downloading the Discovery Go app and they have a pretty good app. So viewers can join the conversation on social media by using the hashtag I Quit and following Shopify on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter for the latest updates and to share your entrepreneurial stories with them. My Shopify also very big fans and

SPEAKER_09: supporters of startups. And Toby's been on the podcast back in the day when Shopify was a tiny

SPEAKER_08: little company. They've done amazing. Congratulations to the Shopify team as well. The series is made possible by Shopify, which is the leading ecommerce platform for building and bringing your business

SPEAKER_22: online. Everybody knows that. Congratulations to the team over there. They've had quite a run.

SPEAKER_24: All right, let's get back to this amazing podcast. Okay, the billion or trillion or zero dollar

SPEAKER_08: question depending on how the startups go. Hardware is hard. But it does seem like a fascinating device and I'm excited about it. I'll be totally honest, I will be the first to buy it. What are they making? Well, I got a lot of DMs and I got a lot of people, you know, sharing information with me. And so

SPEAKER_05: somebody said they're building a contextual recall memory device and AI cloud wearable camera with an app store. They want to put a camera in every human and then reconstruct 3d environments or just fetch images and videos to you. It has a search engine where you could ask while walking on the street, what building is that? And they'll answer it. Okay, this is a very interesting. So that must have been something they talked about in their demos, etc. And that's something I was just using with my Louvre event. My Louvre example. But yes, you're walking by a house, you could say, is that house for sale? Or you know, how many square feet is that house or looking at a building in a city? Hey, tell me about that building in front of me. It says, Oh, that's a flat iron building was built in this year, etc. These are the companies inside of it. They're first time founders with huge experience. Hope this helps big fan of the podcast learn so much from you. Thanks, Jason. So and then another insider told me imagine a thin iWatch that you clip to your lapel. So this is the accurate information,

SPEAKER_08: I believe a thin, you know, maybe the size of a cookie, but you know, square with curved edges. And it will serve as something between Snapchat, Spectacles, Google Glass and an iWatch. So that

SPEAKER_05: means they're probably going to build glasses, but it has a laser that can project a UI onto your hand for interactions like dialing a phone number. So this is now we know what this is. You put this little square on your lapel, it clips on or magnets on. And then you put your hand out, and you say, make a phone call, and it projects the phone call, or you say, call an Uber. And now it projects onto your hand with its lasers, a UI that says, would you like UberX, Uber, whatever, and you just press a button on your hand, boom, boom, boom, no need to take out your phone, no need to look at your watch, no need to break your discussion with another person. And the thesis is they want to have people more immersed in the real world, which is what their website says. So that checks out. And the patent seems to explain that as well. They're basically former Apple execs who want to, former Apple execs who want to break phone addiction. So that's going

SPEAKER_20: to be their marketing, I believe, is, hey, phone addiction is bad. Use our addiction. Use our phone that doesn't require you to look at the black mirror. And then on Twitter, somebody posted a leak, and it's been deleted, but somebody sent us this image that was tweeted. So if you're watching us on

SPEAKER_09: YouTube, or you're watching the video view of the show and the Apple's iPad, you'll see this. Or you can just go to our youtube.com slash this weekend, where you can type humane this weekend startups, and it should come up, you'll be able to find our video pretty quickly. And here's the

SPEAKER_08: prototype. So let me zoom in section by section. Cloud connected site enabled AI platform with

SPEAKER_05: server side app ecosystem. And so here you go, that looks like that little square looks just like an Apple watch. The hardware according to this is 180 field view camera with optical image stabilizer makes sense sounds like a GoPro. LTE and GPS, of course, that makes sense. An accelerometer that makes sense. LiDAR and time of flight sensor that's expensive and doesn't make sense. But okay, I guess they want to make that 3d version of the world. Photo voltaic surface to sustain battery inductive charging, which means you could probably just snap it off on the magnet, it's going to be a

SPEAKER_09: magnet clip that makes sense and just drop it somewhere to charge it, you're probably gonna have to charge it a whole, a whole bunch. There is a word here hydro phobic, tending to repel or fail to mix with water or suffering from hydro phobia. So I guess it is going to be that's a fancy way of

SPEAKER_08: saying waterproof. The mounts tension clasp, interlocking pin back or magnetic, and they show that here. So a clasp would be like a pen, right? Like that little clasp on the back of a pen. The interlocking pin back would be like a lapel pin. And magnetic is obviously like when you get

SPEAKER_20: those really crummy name badges with the magnets and they fall off five minutes after you use them, hopefully use something stronger. In terms of what they say in this leak, the camera captures moments you didn't think to capture moments you want to recall, you can't mark, you can mark them by tapping record and those moments will be queued to be processed on the server. So you call them in a different styles. This is just like William Gibson had like this little machine called God's machine or something that will record your whole life. Or this is basically live casting, which means these things are going to be banned in bars, or you're gonna get punched in the face like people with Google lasted a bunch of dipshit like tech people went to bars with Google Glass and got in fights. And it's like if you walk up to people with your Google Glass on your taunting people, it's like walking up to somebody like a paparazzi with a camera in their face. It's just obnoxious. So I predict these things

SPEAKER_05: will be banned. Humane will be banned from gyms, restaurants, clubs and bars. So that's going to

SPEAKER_09: be a non starter. And I had a friend Adeo from my friend Adeo from the Founders Institute. Many of you know him. He's been on the pod friend of the pod friend of mine for a long time. And he showed up

SPEAKER_08: with one of these stupid life casting things. And I'm talking to him and I said, Is that a camera? He's like, Yeah, it's like, don't worry about it. I'm like, what the f***? I'm sorry. What the beep are you doing? Beep that out, please. What the beep are you doing? Like we're sitting here having a conversation like and you're recording me? He's like, Oh, it's just recording like low of it. I don't care what it's recording. Take that stupid thing off. And I just left the table. I was

SPEAKER_09: just I was so mortified for Adeo for doing something so stupid. Like wearing that stupid camera to a dinner and it's just uncouth. So I do believe Humane will be banned in workplaces. It'll be banned in conference rooms. It'll be so if you wear it, be prepared to get in fights is what I'm saying. So this this could be a non starter for this device. I do believe just like people when you

SPEAKER_05: go to concerts or parties now they put a sticker over your front and back phone. And if you take your phone out, you know the sticker on they throw you out. I don't know if you've been to parties like that. But I think it's kind of cool. I love the idea of collecting phones before you go into a

SPEAKER_08: party and making everybody more present images and videos could be authored in various styles of filmmaking, documentary lifestyle, candid photojournalism, whatever street. Yeah, okay, who cares? Nobody cares. AI assisted image processing done at the server. It's kind of nice.

SPEAKER_09: Yeah, like Google photos does and then ship it back down to you with some advice. But again, I find it creepy and just, just appalling that people would be wearing these things. I'll be totally honest. In, you know, most situations like a conference, it's going to be if this thing becomes the standard, I mean, oof. I do think it's like the end of privacy. You can always turn the

SPEAKER_05: camera off manually, the cameras off when not being worn. Okay, that makes sense. But there's got to be some cue. So I think when the camera comes on, it should be red, there should be a red light on it.

SPEAKER_09: So I will demand, and the chairman of the internet, that's me, has spoken, if you wear a humane device and it's recording, the red light should be on, period, end of story. And if they don't put a red light on it, they don't alert to people that it's recording, then I think people should boycott this thing. And I think the government should get involved in maybe saying, hey, if recording red light should be on. It's just a basic concept. I mean, I don't even know if you have to have the

SPEAKER_20: government involved. I think the fact that, you know, just like in Star Wars, at Mos Eisley, they don't let the droids in, we don't serve your kind. Like we don't droids in here,

SPEAKER_35: killing the party. I think bars are gonna be like, we don't want your kind in here. Like don't

SPEAKER_05: bring in your recording device. Videos could buy with captured point cloud data via lidar input into

SPEAKER_09: allow 3d surface maps objects to further compression. Obviously, data is encrypted in private only you can recall the data and live the moment. That's total BS because it's only private until you hit publish and make it public. So that's stupid. Relive the moment or on connected

SPEAKER_08: scenes, phone, TV, computer or laser or via laser projection likely in the version two. So that's interesting. You could record something and then just like the hologram of Princess Leia to Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope Obi-Wan you serve my father in the Clone Wars, you know, you get the whole idea. You put your hand down and all of a sudden it projects, you know, that what just happened in

SPEAKER_09: 3d space. Very cool. The platform going beyond and this is from the leaked slide, I guess that people were sharing on Twitter, that was then deleted. So I guess somebody deleted it. Who

SPEAKER_08: knows if this is real or not. So again, for this whole podcast, take it for what it's worth. This is just stuff collected on the internet, who knows what's true or not. And again, we invited them to

SPEAKER_15: come on the pod, they declined. Going beyond communication, fitness activity and digital assistance to CRM will take over microtransactions. Now, I don't know what CRM stands for in

SPEAKER_09: this regard. But we'll see if we can figure that out. We'll take over microtransactions that once

SPEAKER_08: required a smartphone and now even simpler, faster and more fluid with the aid of site assisted context awareness. Which way? What is when is that's interesting? Which way is Starbucks? What is that building? When is the movie starting hybrid grammar and lidar time of flight data streams allow for accurate natural gestures to achieve quick responses to question? What kind of car is that? What is

SPEAKER_09: the building? Will this fit my wife? How much do I eat today? How much is this on Amazon? Put this on my wishlist. So again, that classic example of knowing the calorie count of the food you're eating, we're estimating it, or you're shopping and you want to know if this, you know, Contigo cup is available on Amazon and what price is it so that you don't get ripped off. And when you're

SPEAKER_20: shopping in person, personal live broadcasting, Instagram live and Snapchat, senior monitoring, how's my mom doing today? Has she had her medicine? So you put this on your mom and you spy on grandma

SPEAKER_09: and make sure she's okay. I'm being slightly facetious here. But I do think the privacy issues now that I'm walking through this are just ridiculous. I mean, this is going to be a privacy nightmare for this company. I think this could be banned in most places. Like people are just going to revolt against this thing. Show me my daughter's goal from last week. So you can do memory recall meditation. Did they mean meditation? AI enabled personal guided meditation example, you're in the office and guides you to look out your window. All right, so they put a little calm, putting a little calm fairy dust on it. I get it. And the final thoughts on this leak prototype, it kind of reinforces

SPEAKER_08: what we heard from those two insiders who gave us the anonymous information, and it syncs with the pat.

SPEAKER_09: So if you want to know what Humane is, it's a wearable device that life casts and answers

SPEAKER_08: questions for you. And it projects onto your hand with an interface and probably will be compatible with glasses and be compatible with AirPods or any other wireless. Yeah. And you know, it's a lot of this is written in sort of like the Queen's English. So we have color instead of color and

SPEAKER_09: stabilize instead of stabilize in this leaked document. And I think Chargery is has an English accent. I couldn't tell from the video, but I think that would check out that he maybe wrote this in English. So anyway, pretty standard. So I guess the questions that come up on this number one, is it a cool device? Is it hot or not? It's it's super hot. It's a great idea. I love these wearables. I think it's awesome. I think they should. Now the second issue is will people adopt this? Of course, people will adopt any of these great technologies and play with them. Will it get mass adoption? I think privacy is a non starter for this device. Schools will ban them

SPEAKER_08: offices will ban them bars and clubs will ban them. And then that leaves people walking down

SPEAKER_09: the street or in their own homes, which is also super creepy walking around your own home and life casting yourself and it creates a massive privacy issue. And if God forbid this thing got hacked and the Russians or Chinese got it, like they have the tick tock data, obviously, they could be spying, you know, some kid could wear this and their parent is a senator or works for the president or is the president all of a sudden this thing is leaking really important information. So privacy is the main issue here. I think what they might want to do is have the camera have what you have some people put on their cameras on their desktops or their laptops, that little cover that slides over that could be

SPEAKER_20: an elegant solution. So thinking positively here about this privacy, eliminating device, if it actually let you slide over the camera, then if you're in your office, sliding it over the camera could be the default. But this is super creepy. Obviously, people are recording people on their phones all the time. But if you see somebody holding your phone up, you assume they if the based on the way they're pointing it, or even if they have it out that they could be recording when I see people walking up to me with their phone out, I assume they've already started the camera. I assume when people have it in their pocket, they might have the recorder on I assume I'm being recorded all the time. But having a perfectly balanced camera on your lapel, that would be like everybody the equivalent of everybody

SPEAKER_09: walking around with a goddamn GoPro mounted in the middle of their chest. And that is creepy and not a

SPEAKER_08: world any of us want to live in. So that's going to be the challenge of this startup. And the next thing is thinking about this as a business, well, they're going to take on hardware, they're going to take on

SPEAKER_05: the App Store, and they're going to do this at the same time Apple's coming out with reportedly AR

SPEAKER_08: glasses. This thing I think if you have this thing, I don't think you need AR glasses. If you have AR glasses, I don't think you need this. Because the AR glasses will work as well. And obviously, Apple is going to work on this. And obviously, Apple is going to be vindictive because these people left to create

SPEAKER_09: a competitor to Apple. So there's going to be just based on my experience in life, a massive vendetta from

SPEAKER_08: Tim Cook, Eddie Q and the Apple team to destroy this company. So this is going to be the fight of a lifetime. Now, do I think it's a good bet? I probably would have invested in if I saw it because I love a moonshot. But the chances of the succeeding if most startups, the chances of them succeeding, which means being a large sustainable company is maybe 10%. They become a large sustainable company with millions of dollars or more in

SPEAKER_09: revenue. That's 10% of startups. I think this is like got a 1% chance of actually becoming a sustainable startup because anything they do Apple and Google, and everybody else are going to be able to compete against. And so it's going to be a long, long odds. But I still, to be clear, would have made that bet if I had the opportunity to invest, I would have invest, you know, I'm assuming if they raised 30 million, they raised that 100 million post and the 30 million bought 30% of the company.

SPEAKER_08: That's what I would guess. It could have been 120, could have been 25% for 30 million. It could have been maybe they went even 90 million, 33% for 30 million. It's basically like raising a series A and a series B or a seed and a big series A at once. So you do see hardware companies do this sometimes

SPEAKER_09: because it's so hard. This will get them through probably, I don't know, 24 months and get them to the product being launched. So that's probably how Sam and other people who invested in it thought

SPEAKER_08: about it. But Apple will try and kill this company. And then privacy will become a major issue. And when you look at these, the major hardware tech IPOs of the past decade have not done great. Hardware is hard. Fitbit IPO and then got acquired by Google. The early investors obviously did great. The later investors maybe didn't do as well. Peloton has been amazing. So that's an entire ecosystem. And that company is wildly overvalued right now. But I am super bullish on Peloton. I think they'll have seven or eight hardware devices, and maybe two versions of each. So they'll definitely have a tonal competitor. They'll definitely have a rowing machine competitor. They'll have two versions of every device, a cheap one and expensive one. And so Peloton is going to be, I think, ultimately, a standalone company for some time to come. And God bless GoPro. You know, the focus level of that founder and the focus level of that team. They've remained independent. And every time, you know, they're in a commodity business. But GoPro 8 and GoPro 9 are incredible. And you keep seeing Casey and other, you know, leading video people buy them and talk about them and assess over them. So, you know, if you are like

SPEAKER_20: Peloton or GoPro, you can keep going it alone. Fitbit gave up and sold to Google. I thought that was lame. I wear Fitbit. I love Fitbit. Hopefully Google doesn't screw it up. But, you know, Google did an

SPEAKER_09: okay job. I give them a B on the Nest Cam, which they bought Dropcam. I still use Nest Cams. I think they're okay. They could be so much better. So I think Google, you know, I give them a seven for their Dropcam acquisition. They didn't shut it down. But really, the product didn't get meaningfully better. And it's really slow and kind of embarrassing for Google that they can't keep up with Ring and Jamie Siminoff. And they just don't have the focus level. So, I mean, Google did a great job with YouTube, obviously, in that acquisition. They did a great job with the acquisition of Android. But man, they've done just a mediocre at best job with their Dropcam Nest acquisitions and Fitbit. I'm hoping Fitbit keeps releasing better and better products. And maybe that it should be really the Pixel. They should make the Fitbit Pixel, which would match the Fitbit, the Pixel 5, and the Pixel Air Buds or whatever, you know, AirPod competitor and Fitbit should all be one group, right? And they should really work on that ecosystem. And I don't know if they've done

SPEAKER_08: that yet, or if they're all separate. So I guess, do you want to be recording your friends at all times? Do you want this device? I'm interested in your feedback. And of course, to the founders, would love to have you on the pod, would love to have had you on the pod. But I understand you're probably going to make a big deal about this with a major announcement. So good luck with

SPEAKER_09: that. And I will be the first to buy your product. I do sincerely wish you guys and gals a great success over at Humane. It seems like a great company to go work for. It's a moonshot. I love

SPEAKER_08: a great moonshot. Maybe, you know, when I say I give it a 1% chance of being a large standalone business, I give it a 50% chance of having a positive outcome for the investors. Because I do think if they work on this for three years, they'll build up a bunch of patents, they'll build up a bunch

SPEAKER_09: of technology, they'll build a loyal I do believe they'll build like a loyal following of Robert Scoble, you know, type, you know, gadget obsessed people, if they execute half as well as they did when inside of Apple, they'll get this early thing and then Bezos, or Microsoft will buy it. So I think it's an investment to put in 30 million at 100 million. I think there's like if they just hire 50

SPEAKER_08: or 100 great people, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook will all want to just buy this company for the team. So you do have some downside protection as an investor. If I haven't ruined my relationship

SPEAKER_09: by doing this podcast, I would love to invest in the company. So hit me up the team over there. I'd love to put a quick million or two in. I love the idea. I do think you got to listen to me about

SPEAKER_20: privacy. Sincerely, that is going to be the Achilles heel of this company. And you got to get ahead of it. And the way to get ahead of it is to put a red light on it, and to put a cover over the camera. And when you cover the camera, it says off. And there's no light on. It just says off. And you could do that with an always on display. It just says camera off. So when you see it, it says camera off, sound off. When the camera's on and sounds on, it says camera on, sound on. But you probably won't do that because you will think it will creep people out. But I would get ahead of it. That's the way I would do it. And then actually what I would do is I'd let people geofence. So I could geofence my office and say no cameras. I could geofence my house and say no cameras. So if I could prove I was the owner of this building or restaurant, I could actually geofence it and turn them off. But you're literally, you know, look it up, Nick, and put into the picture right here that no Google glass signs, there were literally no Google glass allowed

SPEAKER_09: signs that people started printing up. And that was pretty hilarious. Thanks for tuning in to

SPEAKER_45: another emergency podcast. Yes, we'll be doing emergency podcast when there are

SPEAKER_08: emergencies. Look forward to more of them. We'll see you soon. Bye bye, everybody.