SPEAKER_00: to hey everybody welcome to friday we have an awesome new show for you today eric newcomer is filling in for molly first we briefly talk about eric's transition to an individual independent indie journalist on substack and what that means for his incredible business which is in the two comma club right now i can say that he breaks some news here and we break down eric's amazing scoop on stripe which is raising 6 billion at a 50 billion dollar evaluation down from 96 billion and he's got the inside details then we talk about all the generative ai funding how crazy that is and breaking news breaking breaking breaking news silicon valley bank has dropped 60 percent their stock price and uh there is the i hate to say this there's a bit of a talk of people taking their deposits out of silicon valley bank buy some venture firms and that could create a potential bank run maybe maybe not uh we'll unpack all of that and uh it's going to be

SPEAKER_02: a great show so stick with us this week in startups is brought to you by first republic bank whose

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SPEAKER_05: weeks all right everybody happy friday eric newcomer is here he's joining us to go through the news you know eric from his stint at the amazing publication known as the information bloomberg and his own sub stack now you are part of the independent journalism movement newcomer n-e-w-c-o-m-e-r.co newcomer.co is his sub stack what do you charge 100 bucks a year 10 bucks a month something like that

SPEAKER_08: it is now 199 okay a year 19 a month i have a discount you can get it for 150 a year i think if

SPEAKER_12: you go to newcomer.co right now oh there you go get it for 150 bucks and uh what is that like exactly you do two a week three a week how many drops is it yeah so it's uh i've got like a weekly

SPEAKER_16: like podcast out that i just relaunched that comes out once a week and then i tend to publish once a week myself and now i have like like i just literally while we were preparing for this published a data post that we're starting to put out once a month right so it's sort of it's it's a mix you know it's not like sort of a morning brew thing where you're getting like an aggregation like i'm doing reporting and so then when i've got a scoop i publish it when i have an interview i publish it

SPEAKER_19: but the podcast comes out tuesday mornings it's fascinating i think it's a good place to start

SPEAKER_21: here in our discussions a lot of news going on and we'll get to your latest scoop but

SPEAKER_00: it is uh really interesting how independent journalists are becoming sustainable let me just ask it outright um without saying your salary but the the the compensation you had at the information bloomberg as you were working up as a journalist versus running your own company similar more less plus or minus 10 where where does it wind up i mean it was it was more you know i'm i'm at two

SPEAKER_19: years six months definitely you know a year out i was making more than i was at bloomberg now now it's becoming a business to the level i think some people in media discount you know i've hired a chief of staff i mean if you think about my business right now i have like three revenue lines basically right i have subscription which for the first two years was all my revenue and so that's some some people pay you know 150 a year and then a small i raised the price recently um so you can sort of do the math i have like 2 300 so that's like wow 400 you know top line basically from subscription revenue and now i'm doing sponsorships i just had vanta sponsor my podcast fantastic seven episodes i won't say how much they paid but you can sort of do math on that and then i'm doing this yeah that's good yeah doing this uh more than that cerebral valley ai conference um march 30th uh and that's that's gonna be huge i mean that's gonna be i said look at you you got your own

SPEAKER_31: media company that's like more than a third of my revenue for this year probably so it's huge so you

SPEAKER_33: could hit a million dollars in year three or so of doing this possibly i think i think that'll

SPEAKER_38: happen yeah fantastic congratulations thank you awesome feels good the big question is busy you know it's uh i'm like ready to yeah what does change your mindset right from being an employee

SPEAKER_41: and being like blah blah blah you know union leader employee we need to fight management

SPEAKER_43: not that you were that but you did see that with your compatriots this like anti-management and now you're the owner right and now you're like oh my god running a business is hard how does that change if it does at all how you look at the people you're covering who are business creators because now you're a business creator and does it change how you look at businesses in some way and business leaders

SPEAKER_19: yeah i mean i think there's a lot on just sort of i don't know how a company company operates and like

SPEAKER_16: focus i mean i think one thing that's funny to me is just you know i think as a reporter i would look at all this sort of i don't know self-help leadership type advice and sort of laugh at it yep especially for like business leaders because it was like you know shouldn't you be worried about

SPEAKER_19: like you know i don't know complex financial advice rather than just like how to maximize your

SPEAKER_16: schedule but now that i'm like running a business on my own and just like very busy it's like oh actually like the optimization of like my time and my own ability like output work is actually like probably the most important lever in my business overall and so then i have much more appreciation for why you just sort of go back to the fundamentals of like oh how do i how do i make

SPEAKER_46: sure i'm as productive as i as i need to be and all that um the other thing i have more empathy for

SPEAKER_00: that you have more empathy too yeah that's good i think this is going to i think the substack podcast revolution let's call it independent journalists because some of them are using other platforms patreon this existed before substack and they're competing nicely i think and then there's people who are now creating uh sas based um solutions that are maybe not the 10 that substack takes

SPEAKER_43: substack takes 10 plus the 3 credit card or the 3 is blended into the 10. no substack takes 10 and then

SPEAKER_52: yeah stripe facilitates the actual payments and takes like yeah so yeah so when you start getting to

SPEAKER_00: big numbers right now 40k or whatever 50k you know four or five thousand dollars for your hosting

SPEAKER_55: companies not outrageous but you hit a million yeah you start thinking 100k uh maybe you start look at

SPEAKER_16: other options but a lot of my like i'm saying a lot of the revenue is conference and then sponsorships i would say i mean right now i think substack is super worth the money i mean they draw i mean you you set up a subset right i mean i think the recommendation feature is driving a lot of growth

SPEAKER_19: for me still oh the recommendations are working yeah and that's why the free list is you know i have more

SPEAKER_21: than 50 000 free subscribers and that's that's the crazy thing is i think they figured out the referral system and so i've been getting all these free which you know if you just use a generic mail provider

SPEAKER_43: you're not getting that and then i looked at it and i was like i have a bunch of lists that are infrequent founder university has a list the accelerator has a list the fund has a list the podcast has a list i have a personal list and i we really don't use them that often maybe once every couple of months so we're paying some sas fee to manage those which is fine but they're in frequent use it's not like we're some retailers i don't want to say spamming but blasting all the time about discount codes so i was like wait it's free to use sub stack if you're not charging right and yeah i'm getting free subscribers so it was just a no-brainer just

SPEAKER_65: park them over there i had them parked at review too uh on twitter and that was great but i guess they're deprecating it so um you know i like the idea of like the twitter bio having the one click that was a really cool innovation but that went away i i just like the idea that you can get some free subs

SPEAKER_43: um but yeah if they keep it to 10 it's a low enough take rate that i think they're going to balance like oh i'm getting free subscribers and some convert the referral system you might just be like you know what that's that's a fine vig to pay all right it's definitely good well just the last thing i'll

SPEAKER_19: say i mean you know the ankler and then also barry weiss have started to build publications on them i'd be interested to know what the if the take rates the same on those because

SPEAKER_08: oh if they negotiated a different rate because if you start building an actual business you know i feel like like the dynamics must be different but i'm not sure yeah i mean it's pretty portable

SPEAKER_43: so i think the the the point at which you're going to have to think about this and maybe uh casey has to think about this newton right casey newton yeah some of those folks when they hit a million if they have five thousand ten thousand subs which you'll hit at some point i think when you hit a million dollars and you're paying a hundred thousand ten thousand a month you'll start thinking i could hire somebody uh full-time and use some of these other platforms and maybe that makes more sense uh and i think that's why sam harris was on patreon for a while he moved off of it and he didn't have to pay the vig and he didn't have to worry about having somebody turn him off although substack seems pretty committed to freedom of speech in fact they might be a little yeah this week in

SPEAKER_00: startups is supported by first republic bank tomorrow's innovators need funding today and no one knows that better than private equity and venture capital firms first republic bankers understand the fast-paced nature of your business and are ready to quickly and efficiently meet your firm's unique needs through all market cycles best of all you'll be partnered with an experienced banker who will serve as your single point of contact that means you can reach out directly by phone email or first republic secure app when you're too busy to leave the office they'll even come to you experience a difference a true banking partnership can make visit first republic.com today to learn more that's first republic.com member fdic and equal housing lender

SPEAKER_77: mario at the generalist just moved back to substack which was interesting after going off i mean the

SPEAKER_19: you know ease is something people undervalue sometimes it's just like this works like worry

SPEAKER_59: about the other parts of your business yes that's certainly valuable that's where take rate as a

SPEAKER_00: as a general concept you have to provide more value than you're taking that's why i think apple is in

SPEAKER_43: crosshairs for people hey 30 is too big of a take rate people are like this isn't fair we're not going to offer spotify or some epic games fortnight you can't buy stuff right you got to go direct to the

SPEAKER_05: website to buy it it's just too large of a take right now if it was 10 those people would be like

SPEAKER_82: okay right whereas a small person might be like you know com.com or fitbod some other apps we've invested in they're like yeah happy to pay it thanks for featuring us once in a while um i do also like

SPEAKER_65: substack has an app i know it's a little controversial because people can experience your newsletter without the email i guess um i don't know if that's i think casey was the one who pointed that out like i don't want to be bundled it doesn't worry me as much i mean i think anything

SPEAKER_19: to make the reader experience better and right now we're all very dependent on like gmail right you know like gmail filtering i don't know it's uh i'm happy for you know my readers to be able to find the

SPEAKER_55: newsletter however they want i thought the chat was interesting did you use the chat feature yet

SPEAKER_19: i haven't you know with casey i am actually in a discord group yes you know i joined that as well

SPEAKER_92: i forgot the name of it but i just didn't like my channel my my community isn't very active i would

SPEAKER_19: not call it i think casey's has been more of a success mine i don't know i haven't really invested

SPEAKER_95: in building the community but then i didn't i didn't want to play around with the chat feature you know

SPEAKER_43: the pro i i put i turned the chat feature on and it was kind of interesting that dozens of people showed up to say hi i thought it was interesting i think it's got potential like to turn a mailing list into a community is kind of a clever idea right um and i think that over time people will like that if there's a purpose but i think what's going to happen with sub stack over time is you have the fear of people unsubscribing because the newsletter is not intelligent enough or not insightful enough that is a fear that i think drives performance right every time you hit

SPEAKER_65: that sankey right and i was just reading this like business insider you know super link baby obviously um and i was just admonishing a writer over there i was like they were dunking on sequoia's fun

SPEAKER_43: performance and i was like have you not heard of the j curve like and i told him i was like you look dumb like and he's like well i did put in here that these are young funds i was like yeah but look at the headline look at the tenor of the story you're obviously dunking on them and saying like oh mighty sequoia is like doing poorly i was like you kind of look dumb i'll be totally honest you look uninformed and you look link baiting that's not a good look and it's like but i guess it gets clicked so it works but if you were to do that in an email newsletter you might have three people unsubscribe

SPEAKER_65: paid subscribers like oh this person is dumb speak to that like you are and i'm not speaking to that

SPEAKER_16: story specifically i haven't dug into it i mean it seems what i'm describing is challenged with their

SPEAKER_19: public holdings i don't know enough about the new funds well everybody else yeah yeah yeah the uh

SPEAKER_24: but uh yeah i mean i feel like the the value of the newsletter is that every piece is delivered

SPEAKER_16: to your readers inboxes as equal to the prior pieces right at bloomberg it really felt like even though we had a big audience stories were sort of fighting for a spot on the home page or on social

SPEAKER_19: to be valuable whereas for the newsletter every piece matters and therefore i'm much more apprehensive about sending a piece that feels unusually weak because everybody's going to see it it's going to

SPEAKER_48: be embarrassing yep i think that's a very healthy dynamic i think this is like you know we had a

SPEAKER_111: talk on deck count dead cat bounce which is the previous name of the podcast just dead cat the old

SPEAKER_112: name yeah exactly the old name the dark cat bounce podcast i mean that's what you're talking about the

SPEAKER_115: deck cat bounces as a finance that that is part of what it references but it actually references a conversation between mark andreessen and mark zuckerberg where mark mark andreessen texted yeah

SPEAKER_16: no no it's spycraft mark andreessen texted zuck and said the cat's in the bag the bags in the river which is some really like obscure spy reference and then zuck replies back does that mean the cat's dead and so we just thought it was funny it came out in a lawsuit it has to do with andreessen helping

SPEAKER_102: zuck get like more founder control over facebook and so yeah that's that was dead cat i felt like

SPEAKER_41: that was either like mark andreessen's finest moment or worse i couldn't figure it out i was like wow this dude is really on the side of founders he's negotiating against the other board members to covertly coach mark on how to manipulate totally yeah the comp committee to let him go become a senator or something and still maintain control of the company i just i just love it you know i'm all

SPEAKER_16: about insiders and like how silicon valley works based on actual human beings like i just have to

SPEAKER_24: read hoffman for my new podcast and like that's like a theme and so i feel like that that that whole

SPEAKER_16: mark andreessen mark zuckerberg saga is just funny to me it's just like oh the people you know their machinations are really deciding you know who controls like one of the you know 10 biggest

SPEAKER_65: companies in the world yeah exactly i love it um all right well there's a little preamble for you

SPEAKER_82: folks okay now you just published on newcomer.co go subscribe everybody 150 bucks uh you published um

SPEAKER_137: a scoop scoop on stripe so uh tell us what's the latest on stripe yeah you know so stripe has been

SPEAKER_24: raising this round and i got a source and then another source that said stripe is raising actually six billion dollars um big number yeah big like huge uh open ai maybe uh has numbed us a little

SPEAKER_102: bit because their deal with microsoft is 10 but i mean six billion for a startup to raise is humongous

SPEAKER_24: basically uber is the only one that i can think of this right certainly uber yeah top three at least um for sure yeah so uh so yeah amazing and what's and it's at a 50 billion dollar value valuation down

SPEAKER_16: from 96 which had been the peak cutting right but this is not money for stripe to use to run its business all the money is basically going to be used to help resolve this imp expiring restricted stock unit problem that strike has had right it granted these options and since stripe hasn't gone public some of the options are going to expire for early employees so they need to help those employees deal with the

SPEAKER_19: options pay the tax bill the tax bill might be about like 3.5 billion dollars and then the remainder of the 6 billion will mostly be used as an actual tender offer basically to buy the shares and let some employees and ex-employees oh nice you know see some money so the tender offer means that thrive

SPEAKER_00: capital general catalyst a16z founders fund who are reportedly participating around they'll buy some shares

SPEAKER_43: from those employees so they'll own some common shares this is exactly what masayoshi-san did uh with uber bought put in some shares at a very high valuation for preferred this doesn't seem to be happening here but or maybe it will and then also did the secondary so i'm guessing some percentage of this is at a

SPEAKER_102: preferred price and some of it's buying that secondary or the company's buying back i think i mean yeah some of the details it's not clear you know not yet it could even be negotiated right now yeah um i mean

SPEAKER_19: goldman sachs and jp morgan have been sort of steering straight through this and some of the goldman

SPEAKER_65: private wealth alliance are also investing well their revenue has slowed a bit over there

SPEAKER_43: um but they're still growing um 85 year over year for their net revenue um well that was 21 to 22 net

SPEAKER_92: revenue grew 85 percent but uh yeah what what's is are they growing fast or are they growing slow

SPEAKER_16: well i think it's you know it's the combination that the information reported that they lost

SPEAKER_19: some 500 million dollars last year which for a company that i think had bragged about sort of you know how profitable it was was sort of worrying it's the gross revenue grew 27 last year

SPEAKER_16: to 14.3 billion um and yeah i think the year before it had grown sort of much more than that so it's sort of a shocking slowdown because obviously you know what if you're investing at 50 billion for a company that you don't know when it's going to go public and you you're a venture firm so you want to see big returns you're hoping for 100 150 billion dollar company to come out of this

SPEAKER_162: in which case you know you need to see continued growth and and sort of profitability and and you

SPEAKER_19: know i think in particular you know adyen is this public company that stripe gets compared to a lot and stripe it just let its head count balloon um and so then if you looked at you know revenue to

SPEAKER_133: head count i think in particular stripe looked more challenged and so they they cut 14 of the employees

SPEAKER_165: in november yeah 4 000 to 8 000 employees from 2021 to 2022 right i mean that's a lot of head count to

SPEAKER_170: add and uh they did the riff right and cut up 1100 employees i've been dealing with business insurance for three decades i am on the board of a bunch of companies i watch people who don't have insurance

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SPEAKER_43: this podcast for so many years what do you think generally what's the back channel i mean we talk about it a lot on this week startups and all in about the layoffs what's the you know and you kind of i think straddle as we talked about at the top of the show say the uh maybe antagonistic uh anti-tech press the you know sub stack insider kind of new state of journalism yeah what is the actual truth to how these uh layoffs are being perceived uh by the rank and file in silicon valley do they understand it

SPEAKER_176: are they upset about it what what's the are people in a culture of fear now uh and scared for their jobs

SPEAKER_16: i mean i feel like you know obviously everybody has a different opinion i think there are some people that i've seen almost like lampooned for they get laid off and then they still write some you know tribute to their years there and sort of totally understand it sort of the the capitalists and then

SPEAKER_19: i think you see sort of people who work at google and come to see it as sort of like a birthright and then as soon as they have you know people leave there it's like how could they do this you know i so

SPEAKER_77: there's clearly a range of opinions i mean personally yeah i i i do think layoffs are part of a part of

SPEAKER_179: business um yep and you know some of these companies just hired so much that the companies need to be able

SPEAKER_162: to lay people off it's not and there they're certainly in a there was an amount of you know

SPEAKER_70: entitlement among some of these tech employees that they should be able to earn you know hundreds of

SPEAKER_19: thousands of dollars a year forever yep i think the facebook case in particular which i'm sure

SPEAKER_182: i think you guys have talked about on all in i mean it's just you know managers managing managers managing managers or whatever that was zuckerberg's great quote right right and he's like yeah this

SPEAKER_48: has got to stop and we're going to consolidate down and if you want to be a manager maybe leave

SPEAKER_133: right and and i mean yeah i don't think anybody wants to work for a company where managers are

SPEAKER_70: managing you know it's just like at some point productive people want to work at companies where they're surrounded by people who feel like they're doing the work my you know i've come to the conclusion

SPEAKER_92: that it takes two to tango i think google created this culture of entitlement because they had the

SPEAKER_43: money printing machine i think silicon valley copied it because they had no choice because it was an arms race and there was a talent uh you know war going on and google explicitly led that talent war by saying you know what we'll hire people to let them hang out on the roof and

SPEAKER_14: drink in aquatas i know like in silicon valley and hooli right we'll hire you for you to give up on your

SPEAKER_190: dreams so you won't compete with us you know exactly that was that was the explicit strategy eric

SPEAKER_05: as vocalized to me from the top of the company and you know people other people copied it but they

SPEAKER_65: didn't have the money printing machine right so then that gets you into a bit of a trap people basically are going really fast and they just went flying off the cliff right and and i mean you can see why

SPEAKER_24: people are upset if they do give up on their dreams they think they're gonna get this money year after

SPEAKER_16: year you you sort of set a norm and then people expect it and you know it's a hassle you're pretty

SPEAKER_22: far along on your career to go find another job so there's you know i wonder what happens to this

SPEAKER_05: group of people let's say who didn't have jobs that were essential who now find themselves uh having maybe gotten paid three times what they were getting paid maybe five years earlier right so right they were working in marketing or sales or pr let's pm design let's call it a non highly technical ai developer or top sales executive position where like they're super valuable and coveted even to this

SPEAKER_43: day and they got to four hundred thousand five hundred thousand in blended comp between stock and base

SPEAKER_05: and they started their career just five six years ago at 100 have they did they hit peak salary compensation for their careers they're getting laid off at 35 40 years old right i mean that's that's

SPEAKER_203: a possibility yeah i mean hard to know right i just think that's and then i think there's two things

SPEAKER_00: that are headwinds now for talent um one is everybody insisted on continuing remote work you know what happens when you insist on remote work and you're highly paid uh your managers learn what your output is right because they have to figure out your output because they can't actually see you doing work they don't see you at a desk they can't manage by like policing the prison yard you know like walking

SPEAKER_43: around the open workspace and making sure you're there early and you stay late which is how managers kind of manage managers they would just look at literally the number of cars in the uh in the parking

SPEAKER_65: lot and the badge is coming in out well now your managers got to evolve they got to look at your commits your code commits they got to look at your sales they got to look at what you wrote in your end of day report in slack what you said in the stand-up you were going to get done and what you actually got done and then they put it against something in canada or san paulo or singapore and they're like

SPEAKER_05: wait a second we have offices around the world and we're paying people different amounts of money around the world and i could hire five people for the cost of this person remote can be helpful to the

SPEAKER_16: employees yeah ai but remotes can remote can be helpful to the employee too i mean there's so much so much wasted time at the office just you know i mean i love bloomberg but you you just feel productive talking to your colleague you know like hearing their problems whatever but it didn't necessarily get you anywhere towards work they would actually like increase bloomberg's revenues you know

SPEAKER_19: what i mean so if you cut out some of that your employees are i don't know happier maybe more productive

SPEAKER_139: i feel like nobody likes to commute and everybody likes to live in low-cost places i think it just

SPEAKER_05: i think what's happening is we're going through a great reset of salaries and compensation uh so this great reset in tech and business and media is you know going to be impacted by two major

SPEAKER_65: forces remote work global remote work forces so i think if you were highly paid in the united states and lowly play lowly paid in manila i'm just thinking of like the biggest delta right a writer in new

SPEAKER_43: york a writer in manila a sales development rep in manila a sales development rep in you know los angeles or new york or san francisco so there's a huge delta in in your salary i think one person's salary goes up massively once comes down modestly or moderate moderately right and so that like global

SPEAKER_00: price yeah you want to work at home we don't care if you're in hawaii or you're in manila but this is what we pay for work and then when ai starts doing the work i think that's the other thing i don't know what your thoughts are now of how much this is applicable but you and i are writers right and like you ask chat gpt in this nascent version to make you a punch list of what should be on a marketing program like you can do in notion now it's built in and you're like make me a checklist of what i should do in a marketing plan and it's like okay that's a pretty good starting point right

SPEAKER_19: well you know i was preparing for my interview with reid hoffman you know the linkedin co-founder who just stepped off the open ai board and so i was talking to chat gbt and like asking him for

SPEAKER_16: question advice i thought on the one hand it was a very useful tool to sort of think through things right it knew generally like this is somebody who thinks about blitzscaling he was at microsoft like it it's smart enough like you could ask the questions and not look like an idiot on the other hand you know i was talking to it i was like i was trying to tell chat gbt like have you ever watched joe rogan or i could have said you know have you ever you seen all in like people don't just like ask like straight questions you know what i mean you yeah you like sometimes you give a rant and then you ask a question sometimes you ask short and sweet sometimes you're like annoying you know you ask a range of different types of questions and at least i wasn't able to evoke from it um you know the questions that i wanted now i do think you know some of that is just like question you know

SPEAKER_19: there's gonna be all this sort of human language engineering of the machines to get out the output you want you know what i mean right um but but yeah i i i don't i think it's going to be very hard to

SPEAKER_16: predict which jobs actually get replaced because people want to say you know other people's jobs get replaced not mine you know everybody sees i don't know it's hard to predict like uh this is hilarious

SPEAKER_43: while we're talking just to show you the power of like this technology in its most early state i decided to uh type in the uh doing an interview with um i the prompt i gave was what question should i ask reed hoffman on a podcast ask questions in the voice of joe rogan he wrote all right folks we

SPEAKER_00: got a legend we got a legendary silicon valley entrepreneur investor in the house today correct

SPEAKER_26: he's both reed hoffman explanation point reed great to have you on the show pretty nice let's

SPEAKER_43: start with your journey you had an incredible career as an entrepreneur investor can you walk us through your journey how you got started and some of the biggest challenges you faced along the way

SPEAKER_00: i mean that's a generic college there's no spice yeah no spice but if you were a college kid learning how to do sure a podcast they would be like yeah ask them about their career you co-founded

SPEAKER_43: linkedin okay getting more specific is now the world's professional what is the original inspiration

SPEAKER_05: behind linkedin pretty good question original inspiration question uh but they're very oh yeah

SPEAKER_00: yeah they're very generic um the generic today but if you said you know if um i think the interesting thing is you're going to be able to say those questions are pretty generic can we get

SPEAKER_43: right something a little more spicy and it's going to be like okay spice it up i mean i'm extremely

SPEAKER_16: bullish to be clear i i think this is huge i mean it's regular people on the street i feel like i go to the gym locker room people are talking about it you know like there are lots of things crypto or whatever that silicon valley gets itself hyped up about that nobody else cares about this is something

SPEAKER_118: i mean my fiancee uses it just like it's not you know to think about what emails she should send you

SPEAKER_156: know it's i think it's already very useful i'm trying to figure out what's more shocking that

SPEAKER_71: she does it for email or that you have a fiancee hey welcome to the all in pod i feel like i could do a pod where i break the chops a little bit um yeah my favorite is we've gotten to the point

SPEAKER_43: in which and look at these like this gave me like more questions than it kept going i didn't ask it to keep going but it just kept going yeah what advice would you give aspiring entrepreneurs who are just starting out that's a good one uh you're involved in a number of philanthropic endeavors including black lives matter movement and the fight against climate change tell us more about

SPEAKER_19: your philanthropic work it's not bad i i think it's very safe like i i'm almost where with the you know elons of the world or whatever like i feel like i worry that it's just like i don't i already

SPEAKER_16: hate bland corporate speak with humans like i don't want this ai machine to just like like there's no

SPEAKER_190: spice in that like what yeah i just feel like it's very boring right i mean right if chat gpt and

SPEAKER_00: if microsoft is making chat gpt safe for that use case totally understandable right uh but then again like search engines have like filled with porn and hate speech and every possible corner so if it is being compared to search there should be a safe search filter at some point where you say hey let this thing rip i want to ask it i don't care about uh safe words racism sex whatever isms i don't care

SPEAKER_43: about filtering this i don't care if it's off color let it make jokes in the style of whoever's the most offensive right like tell me some offensive jokes yeah i on the one hand i'm supportive of you know

SPEAKER_16: more unrestrained on the other hand i do just worry and i don't know what the solution is to this they're very psychologically persuasive you know like the whole episode with like sydney and bing that you know kevin russell new york times and uh ben thompson wrote about like those are smart people like i feel like there's a lot of pull to it you know i think we're very close to a situation where

SPEAKER_19: people take these chat bots seriously i mean that was the whole lambda encounter with that google engineer

SPEAKER_102: and so then if you you know have people interacting with super dark bots they can you know be led into

SPEAKER_251: dangerous places i think that's okay imagine this you got an idea for a great tech startup and you think it's going to change the world but you got a problem you just don't have the engineers that you need to make it come true why well it's obvious it's hard to find engineers there's a lot of competition and hey you're trying to keep your burn rate low you need to conserve cash now imagine you had a partner who could provide you with more than 1 000 on-demand developers right as many as you need and these developers were all vetted experience result oriented and they were incredibly passionate about helping you grow your startup and what if they charged you know competitive rates things that you could afford does it sound too good to be true well let me introduce you to lemon dot io startups shoes lemon dot io because they only offer hand-picked developers with three or more years of experience and who have strong portfolios in fact only one percent of candidates who apply to work with lemon dot io get in a couple of our launch founders have worked with lemon dot io and they had an amazing experience and listen i have used outsourced full-time teams for decades whether it was way back at weblogs inc mahalo onto inside.com at launch this is the way to do it go to lemon dot io slash twist and find your perfect developer or tech team and you can do that in 48 hours or less and twist listeners get 15 off for the first four weeks stop burning money hire developers smarter

SPEAKER_05: visit lemon dot io slash twist i think what we have to understand is we've passed the turing test in many cases right and we've crossed the uncanny valley so the turing test by alan turing in 1950

SPEAKER_43: like if you were to ask you know the computer or a human to give you an answer to a question would you be able to tell the difference like you can't tell the difference here that that just that one i did about the questions if i asked an intern or a producer to come up with questions and they came back with that but okay good start good start you know you could totally fool me or anybody um unless you had like unless it makes mistakes which it seems to do pretty frequently and uh the tone passes the

SPEAKER_65: uncanny valley because it that did feel like a little bit like joe rogan-esque without the spice

SPEAKER_05: um so a lot of this leads to massive funding let's talk a little bit about this deluge of funding

SPEAKER_24: yeah uh and what you're seeing out there right i mean open ai is obviously the elephant in the room and

SPEAKER_16: it's all open ai has an extremely complex structure you know it's sort of a non-profit it's sort of for profit yeah uh you know microsoft has a deal with them that we don't totally know so i just say that to say okay it's possible you know open ai is the facebook of social but all these venture capitalists know that they didn't get the facebook of social and now so they're off looking for the social trend

SPEAKER_19: so there's a question of which other companies will be able to really make a ton of money off this or be as valuable as open ai i think some of the key contenders right now are you know other people building large language models so anthropic you know the information has a story that they're raising 700 million dollars in a round wow led by uh spark i think they said the valuation was like 4.1 so that anthropic is x you know open ai people so they would be more of a direct competitor similarly i've reported on this company character ai which is sort of a mix of building its own large language models

SPEAKER_162: and then also you know uh building these kooky sort of character things you know making images yeah

SPEAKER_43: and so that's really interesting um if you were to look at those first two these are going to have overlap already they're massively funded there's a limited amount of talent in the space i hear ai developers go for low single digit millions a year that's uh you know the good ones one two three four

SPEAKER_155: million a year that's what you're hearing total comp cash and i i i don't know that's a good i should do a story on sort of the individual comp and i also want to do a story on just like i feel like

SPEAKER_16: there are certain key researchers that make so many of these come you know these companies are relevant

SPEAKER_19: if they have them and not if they don't so it's definitely it's like basketball i mean it's like a

SPEAKER_82: star driven industry at the moment it is today brad gerstner said on the all-in pod last week when he sat in for freeberg that yeah google was paying somebody 4 million in stock in cash so that makes

SPEAKER_43: sense if you got a whatever trillion dollar company you give a couple million dollars in equity and this is the future of the company where you have to protect it from potential um you know um competitors you got to protect the kingdom so that's two and that's both of them are at one's at four billion

SPEAKER_82: one's at a billion both of them hundreds of millions of dollars what else has been invested in

SPEAKER_274: well you stability's out there raising around right now i think uh might have been fortune said they

SPEAKER_77: were looking for four billion perplexity that was another one yeah that was i scooped it on any

SPEAKER_16: i scooped that nea was doing it and then uh i think insider followed up with some of the details i mean there are a ton you know i just published like a market map so it depends you know they're there are a lot that battery ventures have put together i mean basically it depends you know they're the big players who are doing the models and then their company you know you've

SPEAKER_19: probably heard of jasper which is sort of sitting on top of some of the models and saying how can we use the language prompts to really make it useful in particular cases i think there's a their rivals

SPEAKER_24: like this company writer uh you know i'm interviewing uh the replit ceo and uh hugging face ceo

SPEAKER_19: they're at uh at my conference on march 30th you know they're just there's so many i the run runway is this company that was used in everything everywhere all at once are you following that have you seen that movie i have seen it yeah yeah so like you know it was this tiny design team and they they used runways like video production tools which is generally high to build some of the

SPEAKER_43: stuff extraordinary that's wild yeah it does seem to me uh we are now going to have 25 well-funded competitors in each of these spaces right their products are going to be non-differentiated and it's going to be a race to the bottom in terms of the cost per api use so i think this is like the uber versus lyft versus doordash versus postmates kind of battle where vcs are now going to be funding these services at below cost because these things do take a lot of servers right and chat gpt seems to have made their api they they might i read that they made the cost like 10x cheaper so they are just undercutting the entire market i somebody's going to make this api just free as part of like some you know long-term play to build maybe the language model but how do you think this all shapes out if there are 25 50 people making you know ai startups for copywriting and

David Friedberg: 25 50 for images 25 50 for making you know characters in films right i mean so many successful companies

SPEAKER_19: and that was my original point with opening eye that sometimes we see only one big company come out but but i mean i do think it's like a huge technological transformation like we're saying

SPEAKER_16: i mean it's a case where you could see why generative ai large language models could be applied to a bunch of software as a service businesses you know it's like okay maybe you

SPEAKER_19: do make figma plus ai you know it doesn't seem as crazy to say okay we're going to try and compete with all these really valuable incumbent businesses at the same time i think there's sort of this

SPEAKER_16: challenge like like notion or a quora i think are both sort of unicorns that are pretty far along i would put them in sort of almost like last era that are now trying to race into the generative ai

SPEAKER_19: space so they don't get disrupted so their venture firms are going to have all these sort of old portfolio companies that pivoting or are trying to dive in and so i think there's a really big question of just whether you know uh whether sort of incumbents or sort of middle ground incumbents

SPEAKER_05: can can implement this technology or whether it reminds me of when cloud and mobile came out there were some folks who could make the jump from cloud and mobile if you look at yammer sax's company they didn't make the jump when they were at microsoft to mobile and neither did hip chat and then slack was mobile first and they won the day and then you look at you know uh mobile operating systems you know and the impact that had on productivity software or cloud and you have people running away with it and then can other people catch up in time uh and microsoft office is a fine mobile cloud operating system but google docs you know has taken significant market share as well so i'm curious what

SPEAKER_52: you think about this as an investor if i'm allowed to ask a question yeah you can ask me questions anytime

SPEAKER_16: i mean so you know obviously software multiples have collapsed right yep um but meanwhile we're seeing these ai companies raise it insane valuations and it's hard to even know what the like fundamentals underpinning them are yeah i mean i don't know how how do we reconcile that and also like do you think i guess one theory of the world independent of the technology is just there are all these funds with all this money and they're eager for any story to be able to deploy cap they're paid to deploy capital we just saw was it founders fund i think they returned some money to investors right not even

SPEAKER_00: returned because they hadn't drawn the money down sure they said they just said push it to the next fund or whatever or yeah we'll just we'll make the size of this fund smaller because the companies

SPEAKER_43: are not asking for more money they're not asking for giant valuations therefore we can be more efficient so maybe some of their top lps said you know what we're doing so poorly do you think

SPEAKER_05: you might want to make this a little smaller so we don't have to make as many commitments because our public portfolios and some of our other portfolios with you are so down so that could

SPEAKER_311: have been a back and forth discussion my sisters they're they do well but um they have an all-in

SPEAKER_05: strategy for whatever their top investment is so it is super binary i'm an lp and a couple of

SPEAKER_43: founder funds yeah um and so without speaking about it you know um insider information brian singerman has always said you know we just want to figure out what is our high conviction bet that we have in that fund and put like a large percentage of the fund into that like they did with spacex so i think they've been rewarded for hey make some bets whichever one's the biggest just plow a

SPEAKER_05: large percentage of the fund into that and then move on to the next fund and they

SPEAKER_317: exit some of their positions at the peak whereas others like hold on um they did sell some positions

SPEAKER_19: that's right yeah so um but my question was just this idea that investors are paid to deploy capital

SPEAKER_16: they want an excuse to deploy capital and this is a good one like do you you see that as a persuasive

SPEAKER_102: like do you think there's what i would say if you have a fund yeah so it's you're getting close

SPEAKER_48: you're close and as a person who's outside as a journalist you're actually keying into something

SPEAKER_43: it's not that they're paid to deploy and they need to put the money out there they know they're going to find an investment what they need is high quality investments that they think will return and allow them to raise their next fund that's really what goes through everybody's uh minds and i'm raising my fourth fund right now and i'm doing it publicly and i'm taking a year to do it because i want to kind of democratize venture capital a bit and it has made me go back to launch fund one

SPEAKER_65: launch fund two which were like on paper 5x funds and i got to turn that paper returns into realized returns so i'm like in that mode as an investor now 5x is extraordinary that puts you in like very elite uh standings and but it's down from my sequoia scout performance but i think now it's like really highlighted it for me you know i gotta be really cutthroat about how i deploy capital

SPEAKER_43: every bet matters every follow-on investment matters because things don't always go up into the right right and i think that's what's going through people's minds is oh man if i deploy capital in 2021 and 2020 will i even get that money back will i be able to return 1x maybe 2x right and stay in the game and get my next fund now i think lps are reasonable they know there could be a vintage that performs better or worse by definition so they'll they'll stick with people who have multiple funds

SPEAKER_00: but yeah people are looking for things to invest in that doesn't mean they're going to make stupid bets though i think it's top of mind for people that entry price matters right right uh and so even though you're seeing all this like crazy stuff on the margins the last like three four five investments we

SPEAKER_21: made and we're a seed fund we're all at five to fifteen million dollar valuations i think in 2021

SPEAKER_82: they would have commanded two to five x that in terms of value were they generative ai companies

SPEAKER_43: or well one of them was uh but it was a previous founder who were just seeding um you know with a kind of prototype you know hey here's what we're thinking and it's you know first money in okay figure it out go try and find product market fit so those are high risk bets but at lower amounts

SPEAKER_92: right and so i think that's the the strategy people are going to deploy and you'll see what you're

SPEAKER_19: saying the one thing i'd point out is like 2021 was an environment where you could be a talented investor by seeing where the momentum was right your people were momentum investors and so you could get you could play this valuation game it's like this is a company that's going to raise at higher valuation yeah and with generative ai there is a sense like you can get into the hot deal you can be pretty confident that there will be more money afterwards to mark but remember what bill gurley

SPEAKER_21: always says and i think he quoted it from somewhere else you can't eat ir right you can't eat the

SPEAKER_43: statistic that we use the the rate of return so you have to actually get that return so i think a lot

SPEAKER_00: of neophyte investors were excited to do momentum investing in private markets but never realized wait i have to exit and there's no person to mark this up or sell my shares to in secondary so therefore what

SPEAKER_43: is this actually worth and i think 2023 2024 these companies go out to market to raise and they raise that lower valuations and then those vintages they thought they were i had people who had invested in their funds and they're like oh we're at 3x and i'm like wait i just signed up they're like yeah we made four investments and they're all up in six months and i'm like so your fund is up your 3x on paper

SPEAKER_55: in one year okay that that's what a fund does overall so let's see the exits right right i mean

SPEAKER_43: literally if you were 3x after a year as on your first fund the intelligent thing to do would be to sell everything immediately and lock in a 300 irr right for your career and have a 3x fund as your first fund that would be the logical thing to do did anybody do some people i think they're like

SPEAKER_19: homebrew right did they sell out of some you know they're there are many funds that i think that most

SPEAKER_82: people held on their winners i i did try to in 2021 you know i didn't go out looking for secondary

SPEAKER_05: opportunities but when secondary opportunities came in i did take advantage of them yeah because i was

SPEAKER_65: like why not lock in some wins here when we're up massively uh and that was smart because the first fund already returned its principal you know already passed that hurdle and the second fund is uh i think like halfway there or 60 of the way there and that's fantastic too so that's really the big lesson that's going to happen is what's life like in a normal circumstance without the three

SPEAKER_05: years of craziness we saw right speaking of three years of craziness the big news on thursday shares of silicon valley bank have plummeted more than 60 percent bank went from trading at a 16 billion dollar market cap yesterday to a six billion dollar market cap today ouch uh for context svb claims that nearly half of all us venture-backed tech and life science companies bank with them i believe that to be true actually anecdotally i see that and on wednesday uh their ceo greg backer wrote a letter to shareholders saying quote while vc deployment has tracked our expectations client cash burn has remained elevated and increased further in february resulting in lower deposits than forecasted okay this is a bellwether quote so what this means is uh vc deployment is tracking nicely uh okay they expected that but the client means startups cash burn remained elevated and increased in february which results in lower deposits so they have people's bank accounts what they're saying is startups are still spending too much money right that anecdotally i also think is correct vcs are going slow founders are still burning cash

SPEAKER_19: too fast your thoughts i mean it's the the svb stock price is crazy i mean it really like the debates about dot whether we went through a dot-com type experience obviously there are lots of differences but the svb stock price is definitely one that makes you uh

SPEAKER_348: uh like do pretty shocking version though yeah um you hit max um the uh yeah looks like bitcoin that's

SPEAKER_16: it yeah exactly i mean it is i mean i don't know the the market seems to know more than i do because

SPEAKER_19: that is a very sharp fall i mean they're yeah um i think there are questions about sort of the value

SPEAKER_82: of their holdings um well reuters uh just to that point that svb sold 21 billion of its securities

SPEAKER_21: portfolio cnbc noted that mostly consisted of u.s treasury bonds and the company estimated that the fire sale would result in a post-tax loss of 1.8 billion essentially the bank is reworking its balance

SPEAKER_43: sheet and incurring a large loss from doing so to ups to offset that loss as we'd be announced a plan to raise a 2.25 billion dollar uh round in a share sale of which 500 million was already committed by

SPEAKER_82: general atlantic a venture firm private equity firm uh a full stage fund and right before i came on the

SPEAKER_19: call i saw tech crunch had published a story saying some you know investors are advising their startups like pull money from svb that obviously would you know run on the bank bank run would be the nightmare situation so even if nothing is really fundamentally wrong i don't know either way but you know people can get scared and then that creates its own problems so if people were to remove their cash

SPEAKER_43: from silicon valley bank that could be a problem or if they were if they have a silicon valley bank uh debt facility uh a wise thing to do would be to pull that down so you have it maybe if you had the option and you know this is something that i have had a problem with in early stage startups which is early stage startups would raise three million five million and then add a million and a half in venture debt and then they would just tack it on to their spend and they would be like okay well i i raised five million right now thirty percent of that is venture debt so five million i'm gonna burn you know four hundred thousand a month so that means i have a year of runway and it's like nope you have like nine eight or nine months of runway and now you're in debt for that last million and a half those last three or four those last four months you're actually on the hook for and people started using venture debt not for like building a factory or equipment and paying it

SPEAKER_65: back over some reasonable amount of time they were using it to fund runway normal operations yeah that's not a good idea especially if you don't have product market fit or a stable revenue stream coming in and i think that's also a potential problem here uh for people who gave venture debt

SPEAKER_82: to and silicon valley bank wasn't the only one uh giving venture debt and i think the broader

SPEAKER_19: the broader issue beyond silicon valley bank is just that there are a lot of startups that raised hundreds of millions of dollars that haven't really felt the pain yet like we've seen lots of layoffs but i i still think the fallout for private companies is pretty slow like you know the public market reacts you see it the valuations fall but the actual we haven't seen sort of the bankruptcies that you might right and so i i still think that there's a lot of potential pain ahead of us and just and some

SPEAKER_118: of these companies we just won't hear much about anymore you know i think there will be companies that

SPEAKER_31: raise hundreds of millions of dollars that just sort of fade from the headlines um i don't know is that too

SPEAKER_71: doom and gloom or um you know if you um so to your point eric um is it too much doom and gloom

SPEAKER_43: there are some companies that raise that large amount of money without product market fit right that is a challenge that is a serious challenge if they did have product market fit and there's a there there in other words they have 50 million in revenue 30 million in revenue well they could just lay people off until they get to break even or you know have infinite runway and they'll figure it out over time and that will lead to some hand-wringing amongst vcs on the board but not the risk of a zero and so that is the question for a lot of these companies is okay if you invested in the company at a billion dollars and they had i don't know 15 million in revenue when you overpaid let's just say

SPEAKER_135: 10 million in revenue so you paid 100x you really should have paid 10x or 20x it'd be 100 200 million 200 million dollar company 20x let's say it's high growth you know okay then the company and the

SPEAKER_05: company's not growing now you got a problem because can it grow into the valuation or not

SPEAKER_65: and how does it grow into the valuation it just might be three four or five years of what i'll call indigestion to use a term you know like just how do we get through this like it's slogging you know like you got to march through a swamp and so hopefully the people who are on those boards and who made those bets are willing to march through a swamp for a year or two some of them

SPEAKER_05: might not even be there yet i think some of the folks who were at some of these farms you know the tpg tigers of the world i think some of them you know left some of those firms so then you have to

SPEAKER_08: retire if you you made all your money in 2021 or if you think that fund can never return and get

SPEAKER_82: you carry you might be like okay start a new firm so i think some people did that some more quotes came in uh from uh the silicon valley bank ceo new york-based venture firm usv this week uh unisquare

SPEAKER_92: ventures fred wilson sent an email to founders advising them this is from the information who

SPEAKER_43: always likes to get credit or they dunk on me on internals oh yeah this keeps this hard work you

SPEAKER_65: know i know i always give them credit and then they just try to dunk on me in public um i'm just going to like quote the insider business insider rehash of stolen re-aggregation of this new york-based venture firm according to a business insider new york-based venture from

SPEAKER_05: the information uh usb this week sent an email to founders advising them to only keep minimal funds in cash accounts at svb that is funds up to 250k svb is in a severe cash crisis the email read do not accept any offers from svb to keep your money there even if they dangle five percent interest rates in front of you it said whoa usb noted had reached out to many of its portfolio companies earlier this year saying it had expected such a situation represented from decline to comment

SPEAKER_01: whoa that's pretty intense some vcs yeah so thoughts on fred wilson's position there yeah i mean

SPEAKER_19: obviously i take anything that he says extremely seriously so if he's warning people about this you know it's like uh yeah that's that's risky i mean you know svb uh clearly has like i said earlier has a strong incentive to tell everybody everything's everything's okay i don't want to be the one to you know i honestly i have no idea i mean it's very hard to model out you know these banks are so

SPEAKER_21: complicated that wasn't this what we went through i'm getting shades of the great financial crisis where people didn't have enough reserves or they're levered up and this concept of a bank run and

SPEAKER_43: everybody trying to clear out their money and we saw this with crypto as well this is starting to give me flashbacks of that and maybe black swanish kind of event do we expect you know well-known well-run banks to be insolvent or have bank runs that's something i don't think we expected and then that could result in the united states government having to come in like they did in the great financial crisis and bail out silicon valley bank i mean is it really that acute well here it is on yeah do

SPEAKER_115: you think they'd really bail us out i don't know i feel like after the last time there's a lot of

SPEAKER_43: bad feelings because nobody on wall street went to jail right right and that that was the kind of

SPEAKER_46: bernie sanders position silicon valley would get a bail out um i mean yeah i don't think so uh okay on

SPEAKER_82: the call becker told venture capitalists in silicon valley to stay calm calls started coming in

SPEAKER_21: call started coming and started panic he added that the bank has ample liquidity to support our clients with one exception if everyone is telling each other svb is in trouble that would be a

SPEAKER_92: challenge i would ask everyone to stay calm and support us just like that we supported you during the

SPEAKER_00: challenging times okay great so he's saying don't take all your money out on mass and then just the fact that we're even having this conversation on this podcast and fred wilson sent that email and the information is breaking the story and he's saying please don't do this that then creates self-fulfilling

SPEAKER_356: prophecy i'm afraid as a bank what you want is everybody to think you are the most reliable

SPEAKER_19: force in the world i mean you know svb has always been a little older than other banks where you know

SPEAKER_70: it's it's deeply in bed with the technology industry and and sort of helps with some of the risk

SPEAKER_82: taking okay all right everybody uh this has been a great hour with our friend eric newcomer he has

SPEAKER_92: a newsletter newcomer.com go sign up for it highly recommend it let's get him to 3 000 subs well done eric yeah let's get him to 3 000 subs uh and uh congratulations on your chief of staff i remember you were looking for that it's made life a little bit easier congratulations on thank you not having to

SPEAKER_08: write link paid articles thank you you know for all your early support i remember when i was just like harvard eric and i was a young employee at the information yes you had katie benner and i on at one point i was in a couple episodes yeah you did great on the news roundtable so i i want to bring

SPEAKER_43: the news roundtable back a bit so we can have uh you know i i just like the problem with the news roundtable if i'm being candid was the tenor in a lot of the publications became so link baiting right and so anti-tech uh or you know holding truth to power kind of it became repetitively anti-tech as opposed to like what i want to do on the show which is be insider sophisticated explain to founders and capital allocators what's happening in the world talk about startups talk about positive things happening but not like being deranged in our you know effusive you know love of tech but just more intelligent than this person has too much money they're too rich this person you know this company behaves badly you know it's like okay yes that's part of the story yes wealth creation and wealth

SPEAKER_05: disparity is a fine topic it just can't be that the it can't be injected into every conversation about a

SPEAKER_19: new generative ai company i i agree that the media got too negative and crusady and that there were a

SPEAKER_16: lot of founder takedowns but now i'm at the phase where i like i'm over media criticism like that's sort of why i transitioned from dead cat to newcomer it's like media criticism like okay it's good every once in a while to like talk about the media but it gets exhausting let's talk about like completely exhausting and just like i feel like working the ref there's a reason my position is there's a

SPEAKER_118: reason basketball players get fined if they talk about the refs like it's sometimes the refs fault that people lose games and it sucks more than when the players make mistakes that's the media it's like it's really frustrating when the refs are bad but if you let people if people just like get to blame everything on the refs all the time it's just like a distraction from the conversation i think that's

SPEAKER_43: a good analysis and you can't have refs who are in the bag and who are correct which we've seen too it's not doesn't happen too often but i think this is where i think we're we're and i talked about this on the sort of uncomfortable rehash of dead cat when we try to make sense of all this with

SPEAKER_25: journalists like i'm criticizing them we're criticizing each other and this is like right it was just a

SPEAKER_00: mess of a episode but it's fine it is messy i think it's all collapsing yeah to then be reformed and part of it collapsing is new publications like the information coming out and saying we're going subscription you going subscription and being independent uh casey going independent this new breed i think is part of the rebuild process so there'll be entertainment and sadly the new york times and business insider are not that far off from each other in terms of they're going for clicks and they're going for like a position i don't always agree with your click prescription but i don't

SPEAKER_48: want to fight that whole thing now well whatever i mean the my you would agree that there's advocacy

SPEAKER_77: journalism at the new york times sure yeah but the motivations for advocacy are totally different

SPEAKER_08: than clicks to me but of course yeah i want the the creator world and the journalism world to have

SPEAKER_19: to just sort of accept to merge you know what i mean i think right now it's like yeah we have

SPEAKER_133: journalists we're held to high standards and then we have creators who you know yeah correct held to different standards and i feel like it all needs to come together everybody is judged

SPEAKER_08: based on their reputation and and yeah yeah i'm excited about that period fantastic all right

SPEAKER_01: listen speaking of reputations go back to work and get more scoops and bring them here on this

SPEAKER_43: week of service let's chop them up eric you are a gentleman and a scholar looking good uh congratulations on the success uh and um we'll see you again soon all right sounds good see ya bye