SPEAKER_00: Hey, everybody, it's Thursday. And tonight, Molly and I will be going to the Warriors game. Yeah, pretty good seat. So if you are looking at the Warriors bench, look just to the right and we might have pretty good seats tonight for game one, go Dubs, but a big show today. What do we got on deck for today, Molly?

SPEAKER_02: Big show today. We're going to start with just a little bit of a news update that broke after we stopped recording yesterday, which I hate it when that happens, but it allows us to have

SPEAKER_04: a slightly more nuanced conversation about Sheryl Sandberg leaving Meta after 14 years.

SPEAKER_10: And then we're going to go on to talk to our friend Lon Harris. It is this week in streaming Thursdays. And so we are going to go all in on Obi-Wan Kenobi and the first three episodes, lots of spoilers. So if you haven't seen it yet, you don't want to save this episode until you catch up. And episode three is a doozy. We also talk about maybe the racism issue in the Star Wars community. Is it representative of something bigger? And then what happened in the sequels and in this show? It's a complicated discussion, but a good one. And we'll also touch

SPEAKER_12: on the Court TV streaming success of, or just the crazy numbers for the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp

SPEAKER_18: trial, which is thankfully open. It's going to be a great show. What is happening in society? Stick with us.

SPEAKER_20: It's going to be a great show with some dystopian moments. Stick with us? Stick with us. Stick with us. Stick with us. I'm going to say stick with us.

SPEAKER_23: Stick with us. I'm going to say stick with us. For sure.

SPEAKER_22: This Week in Startups is brought to you by Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. TWIST listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash TWIST. Masterworks. Masterworks is the first company allowing investors exposure into the blue chip artwork asset class. TWIST listeners can skip the 30,000 person waitlist by going to masterworks.io and using the promo code TWIST. And LinkedIn Talent Solutions. A business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters. Go to linkedin.com slash TWIST and get a $50 credit towards your first job post.

SPEAKER_04: Before we get to Lon, let's talk about the breaking news that occurred yesterday.

SPEAKER_02: It was funny too, because there was a Bloomberg article that was like, well, this is like 11 years in the making, but it finally happened.

SPEAKER_28: Meta Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg, she the architect of the business model and all

SPEAKER_04: of the good and ill that that brought is leaving the company in the fall. After a full 14 years there, she joined, of course, in 2008, built out the ad business, wrote the book, Lean In, became the face of things like the Cambridge Analytica scandal, Facebook's handling of election interference and misinformation. Apparently, recently, there was a story that said that she allegedly manipulated the Daily Mail not to post a story about her former boyfriend. A complicated, to say the least, legacy, not only at this company, but in this country.

SPEAKER_12: Yeah. I mean, let's face it, you know, she, yeah, and I'm, uh, was very, uh, close friends of her,

SPEAKER_36: uh, former, of her husband who passed away, Dave Goldberg. And I am friendly with Cheryl. So just as a slight disclaimer here. Um, and in fact, I texted her last night and just said, congratulations on a 14 year run. We're, we're friendly and we're friends. And your husband was a dear friend of mine. Uh, so,

SPEAKER_10: you know, it's complicated. Um, Facebook, you know, I've been super critical of, uh, for many years. Um, and Cheryl is an extraordinary executive who helped build Google's ad business and then built Facebook's. And those are the number one and the number two. So in the, uh, column of, you know, competency, uh, and perhaps, uh, you know, one of the greatest executives in the modern history of Silicon Valley, Cheryl Sandberg's on the short list. If you were to look at COOs, uh, and people's and people in operations, uh, you know, not founders, but people who helped founders build companies, uh, she's in the top two or three, uh, along with people like a Tim cook, uh, or a Sundar. Um, you know, there are people who are, uh, the people behind the founders, uh, who actually build these businesses and she is a legendary one. And, uh, obviously had a lot of influence on, uh, culture and women in business and leaning in. Those are all the great things, but Facebook also had a lot of challenging things and, uh, its ability to, uh, really handle disinformation, election fraud, all of these things was clearly suboptimal and bad. And I think Zuckerberg's decision-making is horrible. And he made decisions to grow the business. And I thought maybe she should have left as you were referring to in the Bloomberg one, you know, seven years ago. Um, and, um, she also had to be the face of this because let's face it, Zuckerberg's a horrible communicator. So for many years, she had to go out and

SPEAKER_36: take the arrows, uh, for decisions Zuck made. And I think people kind of recognize that as well. So I wish her well in her philanthropy and, uh, everything else. Um, you know, in her life.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: Thing, um, that it says about the future of this company, because we've speculated on this show that

SPEAKER_02: maybe Zuckerberg would become executive chairman or that he would spin out meta into sort of its own thing and maybe, you know, give Cheryl the CEO title at Facebook, much like Google did with Susan Wojcicki at YouTube. Yeah. And so this to me just feels like, I mean, look, if you're a multi-billionaire

SPEAKER_04: and you've put your time in and you've taken a lot of arrows and like, you just want to live your life and live it well and do philanthropy and do whatever else. Great. Right. You should totally do that. But also when you're dealing with ambitious people, you do wonder if there was a job that

SPEAKER_43: she wasn't, wasn't going to be given. Well, that's what happened at Google. So I have no idea what's happening here. I have no inside information. I don't talk to Zuck. I rarely talk to Cheryl, but we're friendly. Um, so I don't have any inside information in this case. I'm always very honest with that with the audience. So, but she did, she should have become a board member at Google. Uh, she should have been president maybe or CEO candidate. And I think that's probably why she left there. You know, sometimes you have to leave a company to get recognized for your unique talent. You might have experienced that yourself, Molly. Um, and it, I don't think it's even a gender based thing, but it might be more acute for women. I don't know. Um, but a lot of times talent has to

SPEAKER_48: leave a place because there's no more slots ahead of them, right? There's, there's a backlog, right? And so the easiest way to move up the ladder is to go, uh, jump onto another ladder and, and go one rung up. And, uh, I think that's what she did at Facebook, right? She became the number two,

SPEAKER_43: where at Google, you know, it was a little bit of a Game of Thrones there for a bit. Marissa Mayer, uh, Salar, there were a lot of different people, you know, Susan Wojcicki who were in the running

SPEAKER_10: for different departments. And, um, you know, I guess that causes some air traffic control in the executive ranks. So yeah, I think there, it clearly shows that Zuckerberg wants to run this. Yeah. I think Zuckerberg probably feels with the pullback in the stock with everybody hating on him with, you know, the scrutiny they're under that maybe he needs to just rule with an iron fist and be in charge and, you know, for society writ large, I think it's probably a loss because I have a feeling she was the rudder that was probably protecting Zuckerberg from bad decisions. So as much as people would be critical of her, I actually think the story might be if she wasn't there, this thing would have been 10 times worse and the bad behavior would have been worse. And, you know, uh, policing the system would have been worse. She's a good actor. I believe knowing her and always tried to do

SPEAKER_48: the right thing. I think she didn't have the power and the final decision to do the right thing that falls on Zuck who is the God King who not only controls whatever decision making, you know, Cheryl wanted to make, um, he controls the board. So he answers to no one. And so,

SPEAKER_54: and he, by every single whistleblower account, by every internal account, by every like, you know,

SPEAKER_04: named employee account, um, made all of the decisions around, right? Prioritize the engagement, no matter what, like, yes, targeted advertising, the business model that she built, it got to become an out of control monster, right? It violates people's privacy. It like incentivizes terrible behavior. It like distorts reality. There are all of these things that are issues when you build targeted advertising at scale that don't have anything to do with morality specifically. That's like an organism that grows out of control becomes dangerous. Cheryl Kane- What we hear over and over and over is that the decision making that caused so much of this harm and exacerbated that harm came from Mark. Yeah. And he is now like,

SPEAKER_28: now he's booting generals and consolidating all the power. And so like, don't buy that metaverse.

SPEAKER_10: Don't do it. Yeah, there's definitely some, I would be very concerned. Uh, you know, if you care about society and the impact social media has on society, I think losing Cheryl is, yeah, a big loss. Yeah. If you care about the stock price and you want to have a marauding capitalist. Yeah. I think, um, you know, this means that maybe he will become even, I think he will become more freewheeling and, uh, yeah. So I mean, it's another situation where somebody in our comments is saying, you know,

SPEAKER_05: he gets all the credit and. Well, she's getting all the credit and zero blame. And I, I think that's a fair comment. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I think she gets some blame for being, I think she should get some blame for, for this business model for Cambridge. She was there,

SPEAKER_04: like there's no, you know, if you're, if you want to quit and protest and become the whistleblower, you can totally do that. And that did not happen. So I think like, I, I maintain what I said at the top of the

SPEAKER_02: segment, which is, it's always going to be, I think a complicated legacy for sure.

SPEAKER_68: Of course, if she had left it, she had left before the elections, you know, you know,

SPEAKER_12: that would've been better. And I think she would have been amazing as a politician. I think she would have run for president eventually. Um, I think she would have been secretary of state or something like that. If Hillary had one, I think I could see her leaving her post earlier and then, you know, being the government, she's, she, she started in government as my understanding. And so, you know, and now you have to wonder, you know, is it too hard now for her to go into politics because my God, Facebook was such a disaster at times. There's a thing. Yeah. I think that that

SPEAKER_43: could. Yeah. But I mean, maybe better ultimately because a life in politics is sounds pretty brutal.

SPEAKER_04: Also terrible. Also terrible. Well, on that note, now that Darth Vader has completely cemented his control of Meta, let's talk about Star Wars, shall we? Yes. Yeah. Here we go. This week in

SPEAKER_28: this week in streaming with Lon Harris up next. So it is really important for founders to understand

SPEAKER_80: what SOC 2 compliance is. Basically, I'm just going to dumb it down real quick. If you are a SaaS or a services company and you need to store customer data in the cloud, then you need to be SOC 2 verified from a third party in order to close major customers. If you're not SOC 2 compliant, you cannot close big deals. Okay. We got that out of the way. But here's the thing. SOC 2 verification is brutal. It is time consuming, tedious and expensive, or at least it was. But now there's Vanta. Vanta software makes it way easier to get and renew your SOC 2 compliance. On average, Vanta customers are SOC 2 compliant in just two to four weeks. That's compared to three to five months without Vanta. You don't have that kind of time. You're running a startup here. And Vanta partners with over two dozen audit firms who have been trained to file SOC 2 reports directly within Vanta. And here's the best part. Vanta is going to give you $1,000 off. Get $1,000 off at Vanta.com slash twist. That's Vanta.com slash twist for $1,000 free dollars.

SPEAKER_43: Hey, everybody. It's Thursday. That means this week in streaming, the unofficial new show slash

SPEAKER_12: segment with our pal, Lon Harris. How you doing Lon? I'm pretty good. I feel like it's very official

SPEAKER_43: at this point. It's official. It's official. It's official. I mean, we have to make another stream and just go out this week, this week in streaming. Exactly. I guess we got to start

SPEAKER_12: with Obi-Wan. Let's start with Obi-Wan. We're three episodes in. I'm wearing my Star Wars dirt.

SPEAKER_88: Oh, my Lord. Where do I begin? Um, I think just I am absolutely loving it. I am thrilled.

SPEAKER_89: There are things I could criticize, but for sake, the third episode and there's this is going to be super spoiler. So if you haven't seen Obi-Wan. Oh, yeah. Just fast forward 15 minutes. But this is, uh, we're here to talk about spoilers. Mm-hmm. This is the most sadistic, insane Darth Vader that we have seen to date, period, full stop. It is absolutely this last episode, whatever problems

SPEAKER_88: people have with the first two episodes. I think you have to look at Darth Vader walking down a street, randomly cracking children's necks, dragging Obi-Wan through burning fire and saying, like, your pain is just starting. Like, I'm going to torture you forever. Yeah. And you, you,

SPEAKER_48: you didn't think Darth Vader could be more terrifying. And I think this is the most terrifying I've ever felt about Darth Vader. Juan, Molly, am I crazy or just reliving my youth? What's going on here?

SPEAKER_98: Yeah. Rogue one. If you'll recall that movie, they had that one scene that, that fans really took to that was like a horror movie where it's like, there's the few rebel soldiers and they're stuck in that little corridor. And then Darth Vader comes in and it's just like Jason Borges. He's just like taking them out. Uh, and everybody loved that scene so much. Obviously that was in their minds when they were like, let's put Darth Vader in the show. But I think this even does take

SPEAKER_100: it up to the next level. And they really, we've, we've only, you know, we got, we went back to the prequels, which was this, you know, here's Anakin Skywalker before he became Darth Vader. And then, you know, Return of the Jedi is this sort of redemptive story. So we've only really ever had a little pocket of time when Darth Vader was really like at his peak level of evil.

SPEAKER_101: Right. And it's fun. Yeah. It's fun that they're getting to like live in that world where it's just like, he's the ultimate

SPEAKER_103: super villain. And also three little words, people, James Earl Jones. Yeah. Oh my freaking

Jason Calacanis: God. It's actually Darth Vader. Like it's so as fan service, it's phenomenal. And yeah,

SPEAKER_28: like we've only encountered Darth Vader, like after he's already hella scary, slightly on the

SPEAKER_02: decline, right? There are like, he's an old man, he's an old man. And there are hints that there's this kind of rebellion against his kind of like Jedi, but, you know, they're just like whatever old witch man, you know, and then he's redeemed. And this is just like, oh my God. Yeah. He is

SPEAKER_54: beyond, I also love that. Beyond evil. Yeah. They all, they talk a little bit about,

SPEAKER_100: you know, Star Wars is kind of like, it's like a poem. It rhymes. Like you take stuff from the old stuff and then work it into the new stuff. And the lightsaber battle really feels like those original trilogy, Darth versus Luke, where it's, it's cause it's character development while they're having the

SPEAKER_98: battle. And also, uh, I, I felt like they did a little bit in the performance where he's kind of toying with Obi-Wan. Like it's almost like the Empire Strikes Back battle where he knows he could easily kill Luke if he wanted to. He's playing with his food. And he's toying with him and letting

SPEAKER_121: him kind of get a little bit ahead and then striking back. And, uh, it's, it's delightful. I

SPEAKER_10: thought it was really, really great. You know, when Darth Vader's like, oh, Obi-Wan's escaping. It's like, there's, there's some things like logically you have to think through because

SPEAKER_48: you have to talk about the fight scene because the first two episodes, you're like, okay, where are the lightsabers? Like this is, are we gonna have six episodes of no lightsabers? Because this is Star Wars. This is Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. And so I thought this is,

SPEAKER_124: you know, I thought this was coming in episode six. So brilliant.

SPEAKER_126: Most of us thought they would kick this to the end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_124: We thought this would be the buildup, right? We're gonna have five episodes where he doesn't

SPEAKER_48: turn on the lightsaber. And then on the sixth one, he's magically the greatest Jedi again, you know, and Ewan McGregor puts up a good fight. Nope. Nope. Episode three gets his ass kicked. He gets his ass handed to him. You have not been practicing. You're out of touch. You're, you've got PTSD clearly. And I am now going to torture you the way I was tortured. And that's when you're like, wow, he's on Mustafar, the planet. Yeah. Looking out. I kind of had this thing. I'm like, why is he on Mustafar? Like I said, it's like, oh yeah, this is where his pain and suffering happened. Being a Sith is about pain and suffering. Exactly. It's about embracing your hate, you know? Yes. When he says like, you know,

SPEAKER_129: like, yeah, go turning to the dark side, embrace your hate. The emperor always is, you know,

SPEAKER_133: egging people on to just lean in, lean in to our other story that will be coming up today. You want

SPEAKER_48: to leap into that dark side and my Lord, he leaned in. He's like, yes, I, I got burned alive and lost a limb. And now I'm going to drag you through fire so you can feel what it's like to have your flesh

SPEAKER_137: melt off your body. Yeah. Like, oh my God. But here's the thing that makes no logical sense that he, cause he extinguishes the fire, right? Um, like instantly with his force fire. Oh,

SPEAKER_138: then he allows Obi-Wan to, to sort of escape. And he allows Obi-Wan to go.

SPEAKER_50: He's like, wait, you just lifted Obi-Wan in the air. You're just dragging fire. Why don't you just lift Obi-Wan's body back to you and take him to torture him some more? So it's like, well,

SPEAKER_48: there's some logic problem here, but I'm going to forgive it because it's clear he wants to extend this, you know, torturous relationship and make Obi-Wan suffer until he's in a Bacta tank with one of four limbs. I mean, this is where this sadistic, insane, like, this is, I mean, a level of sadism. Yeah. That you didn't even know Darth Vader have, like, what have we seen Darth Vader do? Cut off Luke's

SPEAKER_142: hand, force choke people. Right. Okay. And he's really arguably not even the one who blew,

SPEAKER_28: he didn't have the idea to blow up Alderaan. Like, yes, they developed the Death Star and whatever, but you know, he doesn't, he's not the guy who gives the order to destroy Alderaan.

SPEAKER_146: That's Tarkin, right? Yeah, exactly. Tarkin is the guy who blows up home.

SPEAKER_28: So a lot of crime is sort of laid on Darth Vader in the background and in the buildup to the movies

SPEAKER_04: that we have seen. Um, but this is like, oh yeah, no, he is horrible. Okay. So we got Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_137: Amazing performance. Amazing. I mean, that was like,

SPEAKER_10: thrilling. Peak Darth Vader for me was not what I expected. I kept my expectations super low on this, because Boba Fett didn't hit a lot of notes. Mandalorian hit all the notes. So now they're

SPEAKER_48: sending me on this roller coaster. I'm like, it's not like Marvel where like, I don't know what the run of Marvel was, but I can't remember like the Marvel movie I was disappointed in during that super stretch. And here I was like, Boba Fett, you know, I really wanted to root for it. We talked about it here and, but eh, you know, it was like a, it was like a seven of 10 for me where Mandalorian was 10. This thing's at 12 for me now, like this, this is just blown away. That episode really hit for me.

SPEAKER_02: And I was, I was, and I'll be curious to know what you, I am not, I'm loving everything about little Leia set up in terms of. Okay, that was my next question. Yeah, let's go next. Like, and yet like old guy and annoying kid, uh, romp and adventure is like not my favorite genre. So I wasn't sure about one and two, you know, I was like, I'm here for it because it's very satisfying to build up this understanding of why Leia would go to Obi-Wan, right? Like the, the, the building of the relationship and learning a little more about Leia and how she's more sensitive,

SPEAKER_04: like that's all very exciting, but also like a 10 year old kid is annoying. I think we can all agree.

SPEAKER_155: Well, the running through the woods and not getting captured in that episode. It's like, come on guys. There's a lot of kind of goofy looking action in, in all the Star Wars things. I was like, come on.

SPEAKER_65: All the fight scenes are so weirdly slow in those first two episodes. Like, it's almost like a slow mo, like, like you can sort of see. I, I think that's where.

SPEAKER_165: Tell me what you think of Leia. I really liked the Leia thing.

SPEAKER_100: I, I, I, I thought, I really liked how they leaned in very purposefully on making us think that this was going to be about Obi-Wan and Luke. Like they even announced, here's the young actor

SPEAKER_170: playing Luke before the show. And they released those early photos of here's him watching Luke.

SPEAKER_100: And then that was a nice, you know, fake out that it's actually him and young Leia that we really, really, you know, we thought of her. She's with the organas on Alderaan. She's fine. Uh, you wouldn't have thought of that. So I thought that was a clever thing to do. I love this young

SPEAKER_97: actress. It's, she's, listen, she's, she's precocious. She's a young girl. It could, it could be a little chirpy and annoying. I get that. But I do feel like this is a very realistic depiction of

SPEAKER_173: what Princess Leia's character would have been like as a 10 year old girl. She would have been very bossy. Nailed it. She would have been. Oh, she's just like her.

SPEAKER_176: Yeah. A lot of attitudes. Like she's playing young Carrie Fisher. Perfectly. Perfectly.

SPEAKER_05: She looks like her. The outfits are totally reminiscent. The hair is perfect. Like I should

SPEAKER_04: be clear. I mainly I'm saying I'm happy that the series is about, I did not want six episodes of

SPEAKER_97: them running through planets and having adventures. Right. I mean, that was also, if you'll recall, this was originally going to be a move. The original Obi-Wan concept was pitched as a two

SPEAKER_100: hour film. And then they were like, no, forget that we're going to do it as a Disney plus show. But then Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni, who do Mandalorian and Ahsoka, Boba Fett, all the other Disney plus star Wars shows. They said, this is too similar to Mandalorian. You have to mix it up. So, and I think you could still tell they rewrote it. They made it less like Mandalorian, but it is still functionally. It's that, that Shane, Lone Wolf and Cub, Logan. Totally. I mean, we've seen this story a whole bunch of times. Protect the child. The seasoned old warrior comes out of retirement to protect the young child and reconnects with his humanity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya: The problem here isn't with the Obi-Wan story. It's that Mandalorian stole that.

SPEAKER_185: This is the Obi-Wan story. It feels very natural.

SPEAKER_48: It does. Because he went to Tatooine to look over one of the twins and Balorgana is supposed to take care of the other, right? That's his name,

SPEAKER_186: Balorgana. Balorgana. That's Jimmy Smith, yeah.

SPEAKER_188: Jimmy Smith, who's great. What a delight to see him. So fun to see him back. Love him.

SPEAKER_166: And who else, it does make sense. If something did happen to Leia, well, who else would Balorgana

SPEAKER_189: go to? There's really not that many Jedi. Yoda?

SPEAKER_190: Well, yeah. Yoda is really old. On Dagobah at this point, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_28: I mean, it is, it couldn't be more satisfying. Like, I want to be clear. I'm, yeah. So I'm sort of saying, like, I'm happy that it's already evolving in an even more satisfying way already as of episode three. Like, it's deep.

SPEAKER_115: They're also so good at filling in, they're so good at filling in these supporting roles with like fun people who you want to see pop up. Like Mandalorian too, you had Amy Sedaris

SPEAKER_98: in like a role in Brian Poseidon. And this one, I've really enjoyed, you know, Kumail Nanjiani getting in there. Flea. As the fake Jedi. Yeah. Flea. Freaking flea. Flea as the bounty hunter in the first one. Did you guys catch the guy with the snout in this

SPEAKER_200: most recent one was Zack Raff. Incredible. Yeah, he was funny.

SPEAKER_48: And then the fact that like, he's palling around with stormtroopers and stormtroopers are like grunt workers who are like punching a cloth.

SPEAKER_201: I felt like they're giving them condo up.

SPEAKER_98: That was like a very nice, like, okay, we get to- They felt like cops to me.

SPEAKER_204: Like what? Oh, they make them total, they're total cops.

SPEAKER_206: I felt like they were like cops. Like they gave them like police dialogue in this episode. It was like cops. It was like cops. Like, oh, where are we going to go now? These guys don't know what they're doing. Oh, I get some donuts.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, another day. Yeah, exactly. It's just like, they're going through their routine. Right. And like, it's not- And of course, they're hassling civilians, of course. And- Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_28: Freck's like friendly mega. Who doesn't like a little order? Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty, that's pretty magamount.

SPEAKER_213: A little light tyranny. Yeah. A little light tyranny.

SPEAKER_173: Who doesn't like a little order was a nice, that's a nice Polly. We're going to explore this also in Andor, which is the other series that's coming out. Oh my God, did you see the trailer for Andor yet, Molly?

SPEAKER_218: Yeah. No. Oh my God, it is next level. It's like no other Star Wars world you've seen.

SPEAKER_220: It feels totally- It's the prequel of the Rogue One,

SPEAKER_98: where we're going to follow Diego Luna's character- So good. Before the events of Rogue One. So it's, it's the formation of the Rebel Alliance, basically.

SPEAKER_222: Yeah. Oh my God, I love everything about this. I mean, honestly, and I'm happy to see that Obi-Wan Kenobi is in fact,

SPEAKER_02: the most watched Disney plus original, it shows that like commitment to the original characters in some ways, possibly way too much as we have seen from the fan. No, no, no, no. But just, that was just a throwaway line because we want to acknowledge it. Um, but you, but it just is like, it's, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_231: Like it really is for those of us who grew up with this is perfect.

Chamath Palihapitiya: In the VC world, we don't settle for small or medium wins.

SPEAKER_233: No, we're looking for a hundred X and up, but in today's down market, it's hard to find the outliers. We all know that it's hard to find even 20 to 30% appreciation. Stock market has been clobbered. Well, the $1.7 trillion art market is an asset class that is historically uncorrelated with the stock market. In fact, an Andy Warhol just sold for a staggering $195 million. You may have seen it. It's a beautiful painting. And Masterworks is an amazing platform that lets any investor buy shares in blue chip art. In fact, last year I bought some shares in this Basquiat, one of my favorite artists on Masterworks.

SPEAKER_50: And you can see it on the screen. If you're watching, it's just a gorgeous painting and I own a little piece of it. Masterworks has already sold three paintings and realized 30% net annualized returns each time. So this is no longer theoretical that they're going to buy these paintings and hope to get a return. The returns are actually happening. So congratulations to the team at Masterworks. I met with them recently. What a great team. Skip the waitlist and receive the J Cal VIP treatment. Go to masterworks.com slash twist for priority access. See important regulation aid disclosures at masterworks.io slash disclaimer.

SPEAKER_48: We have to talk about, I think the sequels and the fact that Star Wars fans, some number of them

SPEAKER_233: are horrible and don't like black Star Wars characters to the point at which the Star Wars Twitter handle has to remind people to not be racist pieces of garbage. What is happening, Lon?

SPEAKER_236: Like, we have one in our chat right now saying it's just a social justice warrior show. You're going to want to go now because it's going to get worse for you.

SPEAKER_240: It's going to get super woke in here right now. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_241: Well, I don't want to be woke.

SPEAKER_242: I don't want to be, there's like woke on this side and there's racist on this side. It's a sci-fi movie. Can we be normal, everybody?

SPEAKER_100: I think we make a mistake sometimes where we refer to, we refer to this idea of the Star Wars fandom or the Star Wars community as if it's like a community that you could put a, put a dome over and say, these are, it's, we're talking about hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people. It's everybody. It's everybody. Everybody loves Star Wars.

SPEAKER_115: I mean, listen, it's not everybody. There are some people who don't care about Star Wars.

SPEAKER_249: Most people. It's a lot of people. It created the blockbuster concept along with Jaws, correct? It's, there, yes. And there are, there's literally crossover.

SPEAKER_100: There are very few other IPs that you, you can't even really talk about the community in any rational way because it's just too many people. So of course, any group that's that big is going to contain awful people and mean people and racists and aggressive, whatever, whatever. I don't think it's necessarily a reflection of Star Wars. I think it's a reflection of how many people around the world love Star Wars. It's a lot of big numbers.

SPEAKER_97: When you're talking about numbers that big, you're going to have a, a cross section of the fandom that is, you know.

SPEAKER_10: Moses Ingram is an African American woman playing the third, is it the third sister? Third sister. Yes. Third sister.

SPEAKER_263: Third sister is the name of Reva.

SPEAKER_262: They're, they're all hierarchical.

SPEAKER_173: There's the grand inquisitor and then they're all named like fourth brother, fifth brother, like where they are in the lineup. You know, they're not sith, sith operate alone.

SPEAKER_88: Right. Um, and they, they operate as some sort of group of monks that do bidding and they're hunting.

SPEAKER_266: My understanding. This is covered in the clone wars cartoons, which I'm not as good with. And rebels too. Yeah, right. Rebels as well.

SPEAKER_100: My understanding is that some of them were Jedi who were converted. Yes.

SPEAKER_271: And that others are just for sensitive people that the empire taps to like.

SPEAKER_10: And Moses is clearly third sister is in all likelihood, the Padawan we saw escaping from the Jedi temple. I think that's a smart, I think that's a smart guess.

SPEAKER_43: In that first episode. Everybody's talking about this theory.

SPEAKER_10: So again, we're going to talk about theories, but that's pretty obvious, uh, and that maybe Obi-Wan or Anakin, she's got some animus towards them or both of them. Who knows where this is going to wind up by episode six, but she's kind of an interesting annoying, abrasive character to everybody.

SPEAKER_48: She's on her own, you know, uh, mission here. She is pissing off the grand inquisitor. In fact, stabbing him in a lightsaber.

SPEAKER_89: Yeah. Uh, and she's pissing off the brother because she wants credit for stuff. Right. Fifth brother, I believe is the guy with the hat. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_284: She's taking people's hands off.

SPEAKER_285: She's like starring in her own revenge movie and no one else is invited. Yeah, exactly. So yeah.

SPEAKER_218: I thought this was a fun twist. I don't love her character, but I think I don't love her character because you're

SPEAKER_48: not supposed to love her character because she's a jerk. She's mean. Yeah, she's mean. She's like taking people's arms off.

SPEAKER_289: But I think that's what I like about it. Star Wars has so many like deliciously evil villains. Yes.

SPEAKER_98: Count Dooku's, you know, where it's like they just, or Grand Moff Tarkity, but they, they love being evil and it's a point of pride with them. And they're, they're vainglorious about it.

SPEAKER_292: Darth Maul comes to mind.

SPEAKER_98: Exactly. It's theatrically evil. Yes. And I like that she's not that, she's just like a jerk.

SPEAKER_100: Like, she's just like, like if you worked with somebody you didn't like and you, they were like,

SPEAKER_115: they're a sister again, we got to go through this now, you know, like she's just obnoxious

SPEAKER_98: and awful and like a bully, not like a, you know, like a, you know, Darth Sidious type figure.

SPEAKER_02: There's something, and there is something clearly deeper to her, right? Like very likely she was that Padawan very likely. Cause didn't Obi-Wan tell the rest of the Jedi not to go in? Like, I think she probably is like, I'm on, I'm after him personally because he abandoned us to this

SPEAKER_28: death and horror.

SPEAKER_301: Yes, that would make sense. They're hinting around some, she's got ambition that we don't fully understand.

SPEAKER_98: And like Darth Vader assumes it's to become Grand Inquisitor, but I think he's pretty good at

SPEAKER_04: creating people some level below that. Did you see in that third episode? So they're in that kind of a hidey hole where Obi-Wan sees a message from another Jedi who had

SPEAKER_02: gone to the dark side and then had turned back to the light. Quinlan Voss.

SPEAKER_05: Thank you. But she sees something in there too. I thought she saw the rebel logo?

SPEAKER_98: It's the Jedi, it's a Jedi logo. Oh, it's a Jedi logo.

SPEAKER_305: I believe it's a Jedi insignia. It could be a rebel. I think it's, it's too early for there to be a universal rebel insignia at this point. I thought it was a rebel insignia.

SPEAKER_307: I thought it was a Jedi thing. Cause she definitely reacted to that. It definitely triggered her.

SPEAKER_02: It definitely triggered her. And I think it was more than just, um, I hate the Jedi, right? Like it was more than that. She's not, I will say that. It's sort of separate from all the horrific racist hate that she's experienced online. I don't find her to be the most expressive actor. Uh huh. Like, I mean, I do think that's.

SPEAKER_176: I want a little more there. And so then when I saw her see that. You know, the inquisitors are very, you know, steely. Yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_310: It's hard. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to talk about her performance. Cause we don't want to egg on the racist pieces of garbage.

SPEAKER_10: Hey, right. You know, and, and then this of course triggers the discussion of the sequels.

SPEAKER_04: So according to screen rant to close the, the loop on that, the symbol is none other than the crest of the Jedi order. Got it. Okay. So she's super triggered. Thanks.

SPEAKER_89: Is she gonna try to kill Darth Vader? You think she's gonna try to kill Darth Vader?

SPEAKER_320: I mean, I, listen, I think.

SPEAKER_89: She wants to get close to him.

SPEAKER_268: Yes, there is definitely a level on which she is using this Obi-Wan thing to rise in

SPEAKER_100: the ranks because she has some kind of an ulterior motive. Now, maybe it's right. Maybe it's that she, she wants to kill, like, cause that would make sense if she was there when order 66 happens, she blames Darth Vader for, for ruining her life and killing everybody. It could be, but you'd have to think, you know, like, is there, I don't know.

SPEAKER_326: It seems like a lot of work just to get in the same room with him when she, when she was

SPEAKER_124: already third sister, I mean, they clearly do not have access to him.

SPEAKER_259: So, well, you're right. We, we know that he's, he's holed up on Mustafar in that.

SPEAKER_18: Right now he's at that table and everybody else is like, way at the end of the table.

SPEAKER_48: Part of this is why I think my theory that she wants to kill Darth Vader. She wants to be his number two.

SPEAKER_284: And then what if episode six is her having a battle with Darth Vader? Could be, that would be a killer lightsaber scene.

SPEAKER_48: Like, I mean, I think Darth Vader is going to cut her in half, but she can't win because

SPEAKER_335: Darth Vader's got to be around for more movies.

SPEAKER_48: So her and Darth, her Darth Vader chopping her up and throwing her in lava, you know, for and giggles when she becomes like the grand inquisitor could be super interesting to me, at least like that would be quite a character arc. Maybe she kills all the inquisitors. Maybe she, who knows who else she kills, but if she's, yeah, she's on her own tip. I think you said it well, Molly, she's on her own revenge.

SPEAKER_340: Ah, spring is in the air, people. And there has never been a better time to grow your business. And LinkedIn Jobs is here to make it easy to find the people you want to talk to faster and for free. We love LinkedIn here at launch and at Insight. We've hired so many amazing candidates on LinkedIn. And you know what? People take it seriously. If you're posting a job on LinkedIn, people know you're serious. They know it's a great job. And that's why small businesses rate LinkedIn Jobs number one in delivering quality hires versus leading competitors. You can create a free job listing in just minutes and you'll reach the world's largest professional network of over 810 million people. Every time I read this ad, it goes up another 10, 20 million people. It's incredible. They're going to be at a billion people soon. And now you can add that purple hiring frame to your LinkedIn profile. Did you ever see that where it says hiring and it's in purple? Well, you want to have that on your profile so people know you're hiring. So here's your call to action. LinkedIn Jobs helps you find candidates you want to talk to and they help you do it faster. Did you know that every week nearly 40 million job seekers visit LinkedIn? Yeah, they do. And you can post your job for free. That's linkedin.com slash twist to post your job for free.

SPEAKER_142: Terms and conditions do apply because they've given you something for free.

SPEAKER_43: That leads us to the sequels, you know, episodes seven, eight and nine where people did complain, oh, it's too woke or whatever. I, I just want to say like, cause that does relate. Cause the, the person who played Finn also received a bunch of hate. John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran who plays Rose Tico.

SPEAKER_345: Kelly Marie Tran got it much worse, right? Like we're always like.

SPEAKER_346: Yeah.

SPEAKER_97: And I think the, the issue is that, that with rise of Skywalker, they sort of caved. They got all this racist pushback to Finn's character to Rose Tico and rather than push

SPEAKER_100: through it and say, but this is the story now, like it or lump it. They kind of, they pulled back Kelly Marie Tran barely in rise of Skywalker at all. They were clearly setting up that Finn was going to become a Jedi. And then they don't do that. They give him this sort of other story and, and it's, it's, it's sort of, they're trying to play it both ways. They're trying to sort of coddle, coddle the racist and be like, don't stop watching the movies. But at the same time, we're going to post tweets and have you and McGregor go on Twitter, like, don't be so racist, you racist. And it's like, you could just tell the stories you want to tell and ignore them. And that's probably what they should do.

SPEAKER_349: Well, it's all convoluted, right? Because you want to have valid criticism of, you want to do valid criticism here,

SPEAKER_10: right? As we're giving hot takes for this, but you also have to recognize that there's this weird thing going on where, yeah, they're introducing wokeness or whatever, maybe on the margins, trying to make the cast more diverse. That's fine with me.

SPEAKER_351: Yeah, let's not call it wokeness. Yeah, I just want to make it more diverse.

SPEAKER_354: We're having inclusive casting that's representative of the world we're living.

SPEAKER_346: Which I think everybody wants, right? Right. Oh, and all the alien species. They could go one step further. And that's probably what they should do because it would communicate to the people who are still

SPEAKER_98: pushing back against this, it's over, you lose. It's over, you lost. The war's over, you lost.

SPEAKER_358: Right, like what if Finn became a Jedi and then the movie ended with him and Rey being together?

SPEAKER_115: Why wouldn't we do that? It feels like when we don't do that because we know it would make these people very mad.

SPEAKER_48: But there was another thing. Well, I think there was another thing happened concurrently. They decided to kill all the characters we love and not tell their stories.

SPEAKER_185: And it's like, I showed up for the sequels to reboot Star Wars. Which was not what they should have done with the sequels. They should retcon those, throw them in the garbage. I love Last Jedi.

SPEAKER_129: I think Last Jedi is great.

SPEAKER_362: They Force Awakens, pretty good.

SPEAKER_129: They make an alternate version where they tell the story of Luke and Leia running the Jedi Academy and Leia becoming a Jedi.

SPEAKER_366: That's what I thought I was in for.

SPEAKER_97: I mean, they were going to, Rise of Skywalker, in fairness to J.J. Abrams, and rarely you're going to hear me say that, but here we go. In fairness to J.J. Abrams. Write this down for all time.

SPEAKER_100: They did want to do more of that. The plan for Rise of Skywalker was to have Carrie Fisher.

SPEAKER_97: The idea was Han Solo was the big character we follow in Force Awakens. Luke Skywalker was the big character from the classic trilogy we follow in Last Jedi.

SPEAKER_100: And then Rise of Skywalker is supposed to be the Leia, general Leia movie, but she passed away. We lost Carrie Fisher. So they had to rejigger the movie and change their plans to use the footage they had. And it is a real shame because I think everybody would have wanted to see that.

SPEAKER_04: I think so too, and then it just ended up being this unbelievably horrible double whammy where they were like, okay, we'll go in this different direction. We'll reboot this.

SPEAKER_28: We'll restart fresh. Who is Rey? Yeah. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Just wipe the past. Yeah. Start new. Everybody's a slayer now. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_381: And then Palpatine Returns is terrible.

SPEAKER_382: And who is Rey? Exactly. I still don't have clarity. Is Rey supposed to be a clone?

SPEAKER_100: I really liked Rian Johnson's thing in Last Jedi that her family isn't important. She's not from anywhere.

SPEAKER_384: She's just a Force sensitive. She's not a Skywalker.

SPEAKER_100: She happened to be this person who was very Force sensitive, who came at the right moment in time and became important. It's just random. Right. And like, I like that. I think Star Wars needs a little more of that. It's very much like, you know, historical King's line of whatever. And it's a little bit of a weird thing at this point. It would be nice if there were a few people who just came out of obscurity and became very powerful. And, uh, I hate that they retconned that. I really wish they had not. Right.

SPEAKER_305: And then they chickened out, right?

SPEAKER_05: They chickened out and lost that. It was like, if you're, if you're all in on this story, then go in. But then they chickened out. They left these actors out to dry.

SPEAKER_216: John Boyega and Kelly, poor Kelly Richard. Bailey gets to be in it all. She's got one see where she's like, I'm going to stay here. You guys go have an adventure. And then she's not in the movie. They hang them out to dry and don't acknowledge that at least part of the

SPEAKER_02: reason that they did that was racist backlash. Right. They're just like, oh, people didn't like the story. And then now they're like, oh, it's right. It's sort of, it's a, it's a very, it's a bad situation for the actors. It's a bad situation for Disney. And it's a lack of leadership. Exactly.

SPEAKER_88: It was a lack of leadership. They did, you know, this is the thing. George Lucas had, was an or tour with a vision. And then they gave this to JJ Abrams. They kind of begged him to do, and they had rain Johnson. And then you, I don't know who did the last one. JJ Abrams.

SPEAKER_394: Yeah. JJ Abrams came back.

SPEAKER_202: And it was just like, I don't know that JJ Abrams had a vision here. You know, no, what the vision was.

SPEAKER_206: Oh no. The internet got mad. Let's just do what the internet wants. I think that that's really. Pretty much. And that's always a bad way to tell stories. Yeah.

SPEAKER_98: I mean, it feels like Reddit edited the movie and it's just like, no, you can't, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_100: And they're, they're trying to even do the Avengers end game thing at the end. Like every Star Wars ship from every timeline is going to portal in.

SPEAKER_121: And it's like, just stop it. Just stop it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_100: The whole thing was a mess. A mess. Chris Cario, the same screenwriter as a Batman V Superman and Justice Lee.

SPEAKER_122: Oh, great. Keep them away from any other IP. What a filmography.

SPEAKER_53: Yeah. Please don't touch things anymore. Do you think that what they're going to do with Mandalorian book of Boba Fett in this time

SPEAKER_12: period is this is my theory. And I, I did talk to John Favreau and I did, uh, pitch him on this. Um, and I said like, why don't you just tell the new story of what happened after return of the Jedi since you're kind of on that way.

SPEAKER_10: And of course, Luke Skywalker showing up, uh, it's kind of like we now have Grogu, who obviously is going to go be in part of Luke's training center.

SPEAKER_89: Mm-hmm. I think they have this, like, almost a path of reconciliation with the fans like me who wanted to see the Carrie Fisher story, want to see it, recast Carrie Fisher, or use the CGI. I felt like the Luke Skywalker stuff is close to the uncanny valley for me.

SPEAKER_97: Kathleen Kennedy said they're not going to re, they're not going to recast. They, they felt like, they felt like they, the lesson they took from Solo, which did not, was not a hit. Do well. Is dumb.

SPEAKER_98: Was people don't want to see different actors they don't know as these characters. I was okay with Solo.

SPEAKER_100: I disagree with her. I don't, I mean, I don't love Solo, but I don't think that's the takeaway. I think you could feel free to recast, but they're not going to do that. I don't think they're going to totally redo the sequel movies, but I think they're going to do exactly what they did with the prequels, which is, this is what Dave Filoni, the guy who did the Clone Wars show and everything. Yes. This is what he's so good at. He's going to fill in all of the weird gaps and make it a better story with the supplemental materials and then people will get excited about it because they like the supplemental materials. That's exactly what happened with the prequels. Everybody was down on the prequels, but now everybody loves that same time period. Clone Wars is so great. It fills everything in with the Mandalorian war. Yeah, exactly. And added all these characters people love, added all of this stuff that helps to sort of buttress the storytelling of the movies where it kind of starts to feel inconsistent or fall apart. Like you can fill in, oh, Obi-Wan had this relationship with Padme, which helps explain why they're closer at the end of Sith. Or, oh, here's what happened to Anakin that kind of gave him this attitude readjustment that he just shows up with suddenly. And I feel like I'm very confident that Filoni is going to be able to do the same thing

SPEAKER_98: with the later ones, like as much as I don't love- Should they do Princess Leia?

SPEAKER_89: It's satisfying, yeah. Uh, CGI, like have her daughter play her and then just CGI it a bit and try to get the

SPEAKER_38: uncanny valley thing going?

SPEAKER_115: I mean, I'm sure, I feel like we'll get some beats like this moving forward.

SPEAKER_98: I doubt they're totally done with doing that, especially because the fan response was so positive to doing it with Mark Hamill and they've had so much success. It worked. It worked for me. Uh, I feel like there's, yeah, there's no stopping them now.

SPEAKER_259: Did it work for you? Did you get thrown out of the film?

SPEAKER_97: I'll tell you what, I'm always, I'm always going to be partial to just, just recast and just find a guy, like to me, Sebastian Stan, who plays winter soldier in the MCU. If you put him in the right wig, he looks remarkably like Mark Hamill. Yes. To me, I would just like put him in there. He's Luke Skywalker now.

SPEAKER_100: It looks like it works for me. I felt the same way about Rogue One where they did Peter Cushing. They like cartooned him to be Tarkin in that one. Yeah. Right. What about Charles Dance from Game of Thrones? Tywin Lannister is the perfect Grand Moff Tark. Looks just like him. I would love to see him play Grand Moff Tark.

SPEAKER_346: It's more interesting to do that.

SPEAKER_427: It is. They did it with Obi-Wan. They gave you an actor. It's always going to be more fun to me to have an actor, flesh and blood there on screen.

Jason Calacanis: They're not going to recast. You're right. Like we're literally watching a whole series that's been recast and nobody's mad. Because we're like, yeah, he's younger. That makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_02: And Leia's not being played by Carrie Fisher D. I'm certain that Disney's going to hear this and take the notes. I feel confident. Take the notes, Kathleen Kennedy. I hope Kathleen Kennedy listens to it. No, recast Luke and Leia and let's go.

SPEAKER_137: And let's tell their story. We love little Leia. We're ready for middle Leia.

SPEAKER_199: We didn't get to Star Trek, but let's do all five Star Trek next time. So we can do them. This has been great, Lon. We can't mix the stars.

SPEAKER_440: No, there's yeah.

SPEAKER_89: It's a lot across the streams, the star streams. That's bad. The only thing I'll say to preview our discussion about Star Trek is I thought it was like particularly weird in science fiction to have this racist weirdness happening when you have Uhura is the subject of episode two of the star, the new Star Trek series, um, which is Star Trek. Strange new worlds. Strange new worlds.

SPEAKER_48: And I'm two in, you guys are five in. For me, I'm, I'm kind of digging it.

SPEAKER_89: Uh, but I, I'm excited to hear that you guys think it gets better, but we're literally talking

SPEAKER_10: about Uhura was a groundbreaking moment for television and for science fiction in 1960.

SPEAKER_443: Yeah. But nerds, nerds have the memory of there's, there's no cultural memory here.

SPEAKER_444: 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s. Well, you saw there were people. The 20s.

SPEAKER_446: There were people complaining that strange new worlds is too woke. Didn't you see that? Yeah. There have been like, why is Star Trek woke now? Oh, yeah. Because it's Star Trek, it's always been. But wait, Star Trek was the ultimate.

SPEAKER_53: That's been the idea is that they've always been in society. They've been ahead of society and he's used. I mean, I'm pretty sure that at this point, if you're not just straight up Darth Vader,

SPEAKER_452: then you're woke. Wow.

SPEAKER_454: Exactly. Yeah. Like that, I'm sorry. That's what it's like, right? The term has become a catch-all to mean anything that I don't like.

SPEAKER_10: So you should cast a person for James Bond who's not English. It's not casting.

Jason Calacanis: They would even be mad about the story then. It's like, you can't, there's no appeasing.

SPEAKER_88: I would be cool with a series on Amazon, because we're talking about the streaming wars here,

SPEAKER_43: and now Bezos bought MGM, which owns Star, which owns James Bond.

SPEAKER_98: But it's a little hairy. You got to make deals with the broccolis on the side. Yeah, that's not a. They don't just own it outright. That's not a simple.

SPEAKER_461: They're splitting it with Eon Productions. Got it.

SPEAKER_88: I would be totally cool with anybody having the 007 moniker.

SPEAKER_465: Did you see No Time to Die? Yes.

SPEAKER_466: Lashana Lynch's 007 works great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_465: Totally believable as 007. 007 was still in it, so it wasn't like. Right.

SPEAKER_100: I'm saying if they wanted to do another 007 movie with her, do it. I'm okay with it. Works for me.

SPEAKER_470: Who's not okay with it? It's like interesting. It's interesting to try different things. Racists and misogynists. I'm also okay with it being an English dude again. I'm fine with that too. I mean, I guess Ian Fleming's books.

SPEAKER_233: If they're based on his books, it's based on that character, but you can't be, it's acting folks. You can have different characters. Also, it's fiction.

SPEAKER_367: They are already so different. Have you ever read a Bond novel? They're great. I really like them. The movies are already extremely different.

SPEAKER_100: Like the early Connery ones are closer, but still not. The movies have always been campier and a little sillier. The books have always tried to be more gritty. And so it's already different. You can do different things.

SPEAKER_12: It just got to be high quality. I think that's the bottom line. I pick good actors, big story writers. And that's why Obi-Wan works.

SPEAKER_04: And then racist and sexists will still be mad, no matter how good the actors are. We just need to ignore them. Like who cares? Yeah, just ignore them. They're not relevant.

SPEAKER_97: Like don't change your stories for the worst people in the world. Right. And the idea that you would be able to come up with a middle ground that would appease them.

SPEAKER_206: Like we're going to make a diverse show.

SPEAKER_420: That's inclusive, but we're not going to offend. It's not possible. You can't, you can't thread that needle.

SPEAKER_50: And what percentage of people is this anyway? Like what is the overlay of Star Wars fans to raise us in 1%?

SPEAKER_02: They're just really good at internet. If we have seen anything, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_249: They're so good at Reddit and Twitter. They're such mega trolls.

SPEAKER_100: They know how to make themselves appear very big and loud. But when you get down to the numbers, we saw this. Oh boy, people are going to be mad at me for saying this. We saw this with the Snyder cut stuff. Yes. Where the online, the noise behind that campaign was so loud. It was deafening. It was everybody. Warner Brothers couldn't tweet without a flood of responses that were just demanding the Snyder cut. And then it came out and it's not even among the, you know, the five most viewed movie debuts of that year on HBO Max. Yep. That group was not open enough to make these movies a billion dollar box office. It, it just felt that way because they were so noise. On Twitter. It's a Twitter phenomenon.

SPEAKER_488: It's a Twitter slash Reddit phenomenon. They probably have a bunch of bot accounts. It's probably one. And I mean, TikTok we're seeing.

SPEAKER_492: It's probably two dudes with 8,000 accounts and they've just created their own bot army. 100%. Yes. It's like literally two dudes got the Snyder cut delivered.

Jason Calacanis: And like in both, not to belabor this forever, but in both politics and entertainment, nobody has figured out yet that this is a playbook. It is a strategy.

SPEAKER_196: It's basically a PR campaign. It's a small number of people. Yeah. Called brigading. Yes. And yeah.

David Friedberg: It's brigading to get the science fiction that you, that three dudes want in their mom's basement eating fish sticks.

SPEAKER_98: I mean, a lot of the two is a business at this point too. We've seen, I mean, we also saw this. I don't want to get into this as a topic, but we also saw this with the debt herd trial

SPEAKER_100: that a lot of people just wrote it to views because it's so clickable. Here we go. And you know, like making videos, making content about it every day is a great way to get a lot of eyes on you, whether or not you have a good faith thing to say about it.

SPEAKER_36: Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: It literally, I saw the, there's this, whatever the law and order, uh, channel is on YouTube that I guess was the main feed of this. Um, you know, it just, once you click on one now, YouTube is like, yeah, you gotta see this. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_511: They're like, check this out forever.

SPEAKER_10: It had tens of the verdict. I don't know if it had 30 or 40 million views. It was like a modern day OJ thing. Yeah. Um, but it was a streaming moment. If you think about it, uh, you know, true crime, uh, and jury trials from OJ and everything on, um, it's a big business. So this was a specific moment for, this is the channel. Yeah. What is it called? Yeah. Three million subscribers. Long crime.

SPEAKER_137: Long crime. Like who is long crime network that stole the law and order logo?

SPEAKER_443: Some very clever folks who now are millionaires.

SPEAKER_518: Uh, they, how many views is that? Yeah. Let's see from here.

SPEAKER_04: 30 million views. 30 million views. So then like scroll down to like four months ago on this channel and let's look at what their views were.

SPEAKER_12: Yeah. Well, if you go to videos and you just, yeah, but it's incredible. Like this channel has just gone bonkers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_89: Um, and it's kind of like the new CNN or what was the, what was the law channel that broke

SPEAKER_43: out in OJ? I know CNN benefited from it. Wasn't there a legal channel? Oh, yeah. Or something. There was there. Yeah. There was a lot. Court TV. Court TV. Thank you.

SPEAKER_520: It took us a minute together. So it was like the modern day court TV. It is.

SPEAKER_98: Well, I was thinking about imagine if Twitter and tick tock and Instagram had been around during the OJ, like imagine how crazy that would have been because that went on for a year. That was not like, this was, you know, eight weeks of.

SPEAKER_523: And it was kind of like this too. Like it had every aspect of society, right? It had celebrity. It had racism. It was a race. Yes. It was a police thing. It was a police thing. Murder.

SPEAKER_527: And this had all of that too, because this was all about a me too thing.

SPEAKER_528: Abuse, yeah, he touches on so many of these things that there's so many people. It hits all the horrible things in society. Exactly. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Celebrities, domestic violence.

SPEAKER_530: Anyway, I just brought that up to be like, a lot of it is more cynical than I think.

SPEAKER_260: I think we tend to talk about these topics like we're, everybody's a true believer.

SPEAKER_98: Right. And like, no, a lot of these people are just blatant frauds and they just want the views and the money. Exactly. It's just purely.

SPEAKER_12: That is a big part of it. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you can get your meme game on where you get your clip game on, you can just ride it.

SPEAKER_10: I know I do tick tock every couple of days to just, you know, um, remind myself how horrible humanity is and like, it just, they're, they're torturing and they're making characters out of each of the people in Johnny Depp trial. Like the one attractive attorney on depth side is like, she's dating. They're like speculating. She's like dating in a relationship with Johnny Depp.

SPEAKER_284: It's like, or she's a great attorney who happens to be moderately attractive or something.

SPEAKER_540: My God, gross. The whole thing became a reality spectacle.

SPEAKER_542: They're just making everybody into characters. Immediately. Yeah. Like, yeah, this is horrible.

SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah, it's American celebrity culture. I think is, I mean.

SPEAKER_54: Yeah.

SPEAKER_543: When do you see the worst? England. When do you see the UK? Right. Totally.

SPEAKER_80: The Daily Mail. You're right. It's not the, we're like the second, we want to be the worst. We're trying hard. We're not quite there yet.

SPEAKER_544: We're trying hard to catch up to the sun.

SPEAKER_80: Okay. Now we're just bumming ourselves out about.

SPEAKER_546: I don't know. The verdict was also interesting. Like that she won. It's going to be. That he won. Of course everything gets appealed, but.

SPEAKER_550: Both won. She won like a tiny thing about her attorney.

SPEAKER_305: I saw one lawyer talking about it where it's definitely going to be appealed because it's sort of contradictory. It's like, well, how could they both have defamed the other? It sort of has to be.

SPEAKER_553: Well, it was the attorney defamed Amber Heard. Because he said it was like, they both, they both like how, I don't know.

SPEAKER_554: Well, it is possible, I guess, for two people to fame each other in a fight.

SPEAKER_97: Normally it would be possible for two people to fame each other, but her defamation was based on lying and it's like, well, how could they, how could, how could she, how could he have been? I don't know.

SPEAKER_326: Well, I'm, I'm saying it wrong.

SPEAKER_557: The whole thing is very. Yeah. The whole thing was very weird.

SPEAKER_401: The whole thing is very weird. And yeah, we don't, we don't need to get it. Yeah. I know. Yeah. It's all gross. Yeah. But we will talk about Star Trek next week because it is.

SPEAKER_560: So if you want to get into the details, get the first five or six episodes on your,

SPEAKER_559: but it'll probably be six at that time. So try to get all six. Yes.

SPEAKER_560: Well, by then the six will have debuted at midnight the night before. So perfect.

SPEAKER_561: Binge, binge, binge, binge, binge, binge. Thank you a lot. See you next time. Thanks guys. Yeah. Bye.