SPEAKER_01: Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. Molly's back from our conference. And we have a ton of news

SPEAKER_00: to get through today. We have a ton of news. I was lonely not getting to talk about it. So it's a little bit of a jumbo show. First up, we're going to cover Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong,

SPEAKER_03: who may have stepped in it a little bit on Twitter on Sunday. Yeah, about that QR,

SPEAKER_05: that amazing QR Super Bowl Sunday ad. And then Peloton CEO, the new CEO, Barry McCarthy is doing all the right things, saying all the right things in this great New York Times article, especially about his plans to maybe make Peloton an open platform where anybody could produce content for

SPEAKER_08: it. Really great idea. Yeah, spoiler alert, we love him. Then we break down about a dozen growth stocks that are down over 60% off their 52 week highs based off of a question on Twitter. We're going

SPEAKER_00: to each choose two winners from a group of roughly 60 companies, which stock do we think has the

SPEAKER_09: highest upside? And which has the lowest downside? Yeah, it's a great, great show. And we'll take

SPEAKER_10: maybe a couple questions at the end. And we're going to talk about the new climate syndicate we're

SPEAKER_11: launching and Molly's favorite company from the conference, which was making coral. It's going

SPEAKER_14: to be a great show. Stick with us. This week in startups is brought to you by our crowd helps you

SPEAKER_15: invest early in pre IPO companies alongside professional VCs. If you're interested in investing, you can join our crowd for free at O U R C R O W D.com slash twist. Squarespace, turn your idea into a new website, go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch use offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. And Odoo is a fully customizable and fully integrated suite of business apps that lets you build and scale your stack as you build and scale your business. Your first app is free forever. And right now, Odoo is offering $1,000 off your first implementation pack at odoo.com slash twist. That's odoo.com slash twist.

SPEAKER_08: All right, we're gonna do a little a little bit of the Twitter dish, or as Jason likes to call it,

SPEAKER_02: we're gonna find the fight. Because Coinbase's CEO Brian Armstrong got called out on Twitter by an agency claiming they were the inspiration behind that super buzzy QR code Super Bowl commercial. So on Sunday, about a week after and in case you missed it, that was the Super Bowl ad that was just a QR code floating around the screen like pong changing color. It caused in fact, my child to run to

SPEAKER_08: the TV and scan it immediately. Brilliant. Also was so popular. I know it was so popular because the app to

SPEAKER_02: crash because of so many downloads. So then on Sunday, Armstrong tweeted a thread about the backstory, not content to take the win. He wanted to brag about the win. Also.

SPEAKER_21: I'm going to just stop right there for a moment. Yeah, I think right now if a CEO is doing a tweet

SPEAKER_24: thread, somebody should stop them. These are not turning out to be good things anymore. Right? Stop with the threads. The threads are like the new apologies in like when you take a screenshot of your notes app. Yeah. It's like a red flag. The PR department. Anytime a CEO of a tech company types

SPEAKER_28: one slash an alarm should go off. Wake up every comms person. Go.

SPEAKER_33: Oh no. Incoming thread. What's the fallout going to be?

SPEAKER_08: It's either a horrible apology or flame bait, like immediate flame bait. And in this case,

SPEAKER_02: this was that Brian tweeted. Some folks asked for the one slash some folks has for details of how our Superbowl ad came to be. And here is the quick backstory in the thread. He mentioned all the ways

SPEAKER_08: in which the coin based team was inspired and specifically called out the fact that quote, no ad

SPEAKER_02: agency would have done this ad. None constraints breed creativity. He said as founders, me, Brian, you can empower your team to break the rules on marketing because you're not trying to impress your peers at ad week or wherever. So Brian is like, I am such an awesome leader that my team came up with this all by their dammies. And there's no way that some stupid old ad agency ever would have come up

SPEAKER_37: with this. What could go wrong? He basically took the victory lap, which would be absolutely fine to do.

SPEAKER_21: It'd be fine to take this victory lap for your team. Tacky, but fine. Okay. But you know, sometimes you take a victory lap. Yeah, put yourself out there. Hey, we did something great. I just want to reward my team. And they did a great job in the face of nobody. The only problem was

SPEAKER_08: Kristen Cavallo, CEO of the Martin agency responded and said, except an ad agency did do that ad. Brian goes on to say this was partially inspired the this being the QR code ad by reddits a superb owl

SPEAKER_50: commercial at previous Super Bowls. Key insight was that you could only flash something on screen for a minute and then people will Google it. And how do we get them from TV to phone to convert with geniuses?

SPEAKER_08: And then Kristen Cavallo went on to respond again. It was actually inspired by presentations. Our agency showed your team on August 18th. See pages 19 to 24. She's got receipts. She's got receipts. And October

SPEAKER_55: 7th pages 11 through 18 with ad concepts for the Super Bowl with floating QR codes on a blank screen.

SPEAKER_58: Hmm. Brutal. Uh, I can basically tell you what happened here. Because I know kind of how this goes

SPEAKER_10: down in terms of a leadership kind of situation. Brian was not involved in putting together these

SPEAKER_21: ideas, but somebody on his team didn't tell him where the ideas came from. And they hired a bunch of agencies. He may or may not have been in those rooms. As you alluded to earlier, sometimes the CEOs of these companies are very busy and they delegate. Part of being a great CEO at scale is delegation. Sure. Yeah. Here's what happened. This is my Columbo. Because I can figure this stuff out.

SPEAKER_62: Uh, so you said that an agency could never have made this, Mr. Armstrong. That's interesting because the agency said they did make it and it was on the page of 19. So then how come you said

SPEAKER_21: that they didn't say it? And the answer is, which he doesn't want to say publicly, was somebody on his

SPEAKER_64: team lied to him, uh, or didn't tell him the truth. That's right. She's like, huh?

SPEAKER_21: Columbo with it. Nobody knows the Columbo reference. No, no one gets it. Just watch Columbo episodes.

SPEAKER_24: They're brilliant. Uh, Peter Fog is the greatest. That's one more thing there, lady. You said you had the

SPEAKER_21: chicken palm. I'm gonna make you want a cigar. Exactly. Um, so that's what happened here. Then he went rogue

SPEAKER_11: to write this because he was so pumped. And then somebody had to say, uh, boss, we made a mistake.

SPEAKER_21: Yeah. It turns out we hired like 10 creative agencies over the last number of years or whatever number. Now, when you hire a creative agency, I just asked this question on Twitter and somebody who's at an agency explained it to me. Cause I was like, who owns the IP? Is this a pitch?

SPEAKER_11: Or was this paid? Right? Like, did they get pitched this and never opened the PD? I started to think of every permutation. Like did they get, cause I want to see the leaked deck. I'm dying to see these pages

SPEAKER_64: and see how close the pitch was to the reality. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not saying somebody should leak this. I'm just saying if it was leaked, it would give me great joy. I do, you know,

SPEAKER_74: and seriously not encouraging anybody to leak it, but it would give me so much joy. So I got dust in my eye.

SPEAKER_21: But what somebody replied to me and explained was, listen, uh, actually Jake out. If they were doing two of these pitches, they would have been paid as a creative agency. Actually, somebody wants to look in the replies. So that tweet you just put up on screen at youtube.com slash this weekend, sign up for the pod. You can see us in video and we're all glory. Um, they sent the reply. They were probably paid now when you're paid. I also was wondering who gets the IP. So if you pitch them, do they get all those ideas forever? And the answer is 99% of time. Yes. So if you're being paid, it's like work for hire. They're just sending you ideas. Oh, and the, by the way, the Martin agency, I looked them

SPEAKER_75: up. They're like agency of the year, the last two years, I think they're like super legit. So

Jason Calacanis: they're too good to get erased. Okay. So here, this is, uh, Nilesh. Okay. So work of this depth is paid,

SPEAKER_50: says Nilesh Ashera. And the fact that there were two presentations, August and October indicates this was certainly a paid creative retainer. Agencies get paid for ideas. Production is additional budget.

SPEAKER_00: 99% of the time clients contractually own all the ideas. Yeah. And he's a W and K alum. So I guess that

SPEAKER_10: is one of the agencies. So this actually, I think is the most interesting part of it. Yeah, they probably pay them a quarter million dollars a year to come up with ideas. They came up with the ideas. And what

SPEAKER_21: probably happened was all the ideas get put in a bucket or a database or, you know, a document somewhere, maybe without attribution, or maybe it's in the back of somebody's mind. And they say, Hey, yeah, remember, we were talking about that QR thing? Let's do that. Sure. They never attributed it. So it probably wasn't done out of malice. And then the victory lap was done without full knowledge. So it was unintentional. But I didn't exactly like Brian's response. Brian should have named the agency.

SPEAKER_86: Yes, exactly. I should have said he went on. Yeah, this is the miss. This is the mistake on the

SPEAKER_02: mistake. Right? Exactly. Like you already stepped in it. And now you're smearing it all around the house. He says, although in tweets 12, although we didn't work with a traditional ad agency, I'd be

SPEAKER_08: remiss, he says, not to mention the creative firm, we worked with, who actually created the ad, commissioned the song, got the clearances, etc, etc. Honestly felt like we were one team. So I didn't

SPEAKER_91: fully realize it. Thank you. Yeah. So that kind of that backs up my thesis. Yeah, that this was

SPEAKER_94: unintentional. But I would say Brian, and I think Brian's awesome. By the way, I actually really think he's usually a great communicator. Even if people don't agree with a bunch of his stances. He should

SPEAKER_96: do another tweet storm. Oh, God. And the tweet storm should be no. I know. But this would be one

SPEAKER_21: that like we could workshop and maybe clear first. One slash. I want to personally thank

SPEAKER_02: the brilliant. How about one slash other ideas, not just me. Because I'm sorry, this came off as not only wanting to take credit for what his team did at all dunking on the agency was the problem. No,

SPEAKER_107: it comes across as him wanting all the credit for a thing that he evidently even if your thesis was right, had zero involvement with like he looks like an egomaniac and actually kind of a not very detail

Jason Calacanis: oriented CEO here. And that is why when he makes a mistake like this on Twitter, people come for him.

SPEAKER_109: Because that's how he comes off like sorry. I think that's the worst framing. But I understand people have that I I'm trying to be the most charitable here and give him the exit ramp. Here's

SPEAKER_11: the exit ramp. All right. One slash. I would like to personally thank Kristen and her team at what's the name of the agency again, the Martin agency at the Martin agency two time award winning agency of the year for creating the most brilliant ad of the Super Bowl last year, something we could not have done without them. They are solely responsible for the success of this ad. And I highly recommend other CEOs hire this extraordinary agency to please put this on your

SPEAKER_05: website. Kristen and her team are brilliant. I give my undying love and respect for the what they've done for my company, they get my highest highest recommendation. And the only reason I would not give them my highest recommendation is because I don't want to lose the time slot I have with their incredible, incredibly brilliant folks, I am sending them a million dollars in coinbase shares, that they can do whatever they like with, give it to charity or give it to their exceptional team because we underpaid them for the value we got from this ad. That's how you come back from this

SPEAKER_114: is you'd be absurdly gracious, really good off ramp. Yeah, you gotta give an off ramp. I mean,

Chamath Palihapitiya: I think that's one of the things that's missing in today's culture is like the exit strategy for people who screw up. Yeah, I want to focus on that a bit more. I think that that is really smart. And

SPEAKER_02: the way out of a lot of things. I think right now we're caught in a that that's 100% true. And the question is whose responsibility is it to do that? Like we are caught in a loop right now of equal and

SPEAKER_00: opposite reaction, right? Like you see something like that, you see somebody get so immediately defensive and angry at Brian Armstrong because of a series of actions that came before and whatever. So, you know, I think people are asking this fair question, which is like, who's supposed to offer this off ramp? Should it be the company that did the work and didn't get any credit? Or should it be

SPEAKER_119: you know, J Cal sub from somewhere in the middle? And but I agree. I mean, we're not going to get

SPEAKER_79: anywhere as long as Wood and Calacanis crisis communications. This is another Wood and Calacanis

SPEAKER_28: crisis communication segment. Can we make a little jingle for that? I mean, Molly and I will do crisis comms. Give us another crises that we could give our we could brainstorm. I like Joe Rogan one comes to mind as a juicy one. So Joe Rogan did a pretty good job with that. I think we did a pretty good

SPEAKER_02: good one. Which was like, take responsibility for the things you say. Yeah. On both of you. Yes.

SPEAKER_21: I thought Joe did a pretty good job of crisis comms. I would give him an eight and a half. Because he did say, I don't prepare. I need to prepare. I need to put other voices on. I don't

SPEAKER_94: mind if it's tagged. I think that was pretty good. I'm trying to think if I could add anything to it.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, what I keep hearing over and over, and I completely agree. And I've said this a million times is that the real story here is how completely unprepared Spotify was for this for every part of this, which is which can which remains there's still work to do there. There's still work to do

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SPEAKER_00: need any lessons in corporate communications or communications in any way so far is my new bestie

Jason Calacanis: Peloton's new CEO, Barry McCarthy. What a segue. Let's go. This let's go. What is it? Oh, my Lord,

SPEAKER_137: you stuck the landing. You understood the assignment. Thank you. The New York Times sat down with Peloton's

SPEAKER_50: new CEO, Barry McCarthy, who I'm increasingly obsessed with it for his first interview since

Jason Calacanis: taking the time. Come on the pod. We love you, Barry. Come on the pod. I'm like about to buy a Peloton from this guy. I bought the price knockoff because I was like, I'm not in the cult.

SPEAKER_64: Barry, if you come on the pod, I will buy a Peloton and give it away to one of the people watching live.

SPEAKER_05: Come on the pod and we'll do it live. I'm dead serious. Come on the pod and we'll give away a Peloton live to one of the listeners. I'll pay for it.

SPEAKER_08: Love it. Love it. So not only does he continue to just be such a clear, concise, honest communicator, right? Like not a PR trained CEO at all. He's incredible. But also he hinted

SPEAKER_50: at some super exciting business moves for Peloton. He said, among other things that Peloton might turn into an open platform for fitness creators, which is so smart. He's like, right now it's a closed platform, but it could be open. It could have be part of the creator economy. You could have an app store potentially. And then he also said that there's a universe in which he would bundle

SPEAKER_00: the hardware and this full fledged app service as a subscription. So a Peloton, instead of it being 2500 bucks upfront and then $40 a month after that, maybe it's $80 a month. And that includes the hardware and these services. And I was like, I would do that immediately.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Brilliant ideas. And this is like why you bring a finance person in finance person's like, okay, we can make this easier for people to buy it and make it more accessible. There's credit facilities, et cetera. So anytime you get a really talented bar raiser, and if you don't know about bar raisers,

SPEAKER_79: read the book about Amazon called working backwards, what a great book read working backwards. But anyway, there's a concept of bar raiser, you bring in a finance bar raiser like this to get fresh eyes

SPEAKER_10: on the business. He had two powerful observations. Two, one platforms make scale faster than proprietary systems, ie. Airbnb is like a platform. App stores are platforms platforms grow while you're in bed, because some in somebody innovative does something innovative or platform. Maybe there's somebody in some demographic. I talked before about going international, maybe there's somebody in Japan,

SPEAKER_11: who is the greatest spin teacher you've never heard of, and Peloton will get to them in 2028. But they don't want to wait. So they start Japanese language, somebody fact check me if there's a Japanese language instructor, and they just started Japanese version appellate a Japanese class. Yeah, Japanese language class. Okay, you can wait to 2027. We get that person on now and you just give them, you know, a dollar for everybody who comes to the class, you know, capped out whatever number or whatever you just or they're great. So you just hire them. But man, if you had it as a platform, and other people could distribute on there, super powerful. And what if it was,

SPEAKER_05: hey, you know, the Japanese instructor charges 10 bucks a month. So you pay for your peloton, but it's a it's an add on or what if a celebrity decided to do it? What if Cardi B loves, you know,

SPEAKER_07: or what if Jordan Peterson loves it, and he decides that you know, come on, guys, let's go faster. I'm working on my Jordan. I mean, are you are you baiting me with this? Like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_154: Um, I'm sure Jordan Peterson, or Tom Brady, I would do that whatever he did.

SPEAKER_02: Like JLo, but it's really true. And like, what's so smart about it is that there are plenty of people out there who are buying a peloton or a mix or some bike and not getting the subscription service, because they know that there's just as good content available on YouTube. If you don't care about it being live, then you can, you know, hang the iPad over the screen and go and get it on YouTube.

SPEAKER_08: So cut that off. Yep. Be like, actually, it's all available to everybody. And we're going to have

SPEAKER_156: a better rev share. Come on, you know how many young men incels there are on Reddit, playing video games and getting no exercise. It's Jordan Peterson.

SPEAKER_158: Just intellectually exploring your inferiority. There's a guy who does it Jordan Peterson on

SPEAKER_24: TikTok that we just, I just want to interview him as Jordan Peterson and present it as a special

SPEAKER_162: episode. Okay, let's stop directing all of our Yeah, so there is the play. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_167: And then there's the, hey, how do we make this more affordable to people and build the base of users?

SPEAKER_21: Because let's say they 10x the base of users. And then that Japanese instructor goes on and gets, you know, 500,000 people in Japan to sign up for $5 a month. Okay, now you've got another

SPEAKER_10: incremental $30 million coming in a year while you're asleep. While you're sleeping, you didn't have anything to do with it, which is what happens with Apple, somebody releases an app on Apple. And, you know, calm.com comes out and it gets a million subscribers and Apple's getting 30% of, you know,

SPEAKER_168: so they're making $3 million a month or whatever it is off of those subscriptions. Crazy.

SPEAKER_02: They're also doing the super smart. I mean, he's also doing really good talent management, too. He's saying like, look, Foley, the last CEO is a product genius. I don't always agree with him. He had this great analogy. Actually, I kind of love this. He was like, for example, you know, John Foley gets up in our all hands and is like, we're a family. He's like, No, we're not. We're a sports team. There you go. Everyone here is expected to perform, work together, kick ass and win.

SPEAKER_00: But if you are not performing, I'm going to cut you. Because you're not family. And I was like, I love like I love this stuff. It's like more mad men. Well, it's but he's also saying I am going to consult Foley all day every day. We've talked three times today because he's a freaking genius. And I want him to optimize for the stuff he's good at. Yeah, I mean,

SPEAKER_11: what happens when you build the team from scratch is you put each person in, and then you're just not objective about their performance because you drafted them, and you train them and you watch them work. And so it's just a natural thing to be in love with your draft picks, you know, and if they're like, Hey, we got to trade this person to get this player who's better. It's hard for you because you spent that time scouting them and building them up. And, you know, it's just hard to cut them. So the analogy that if you there is a pro to having a family business. And it's for small businesses, where you want to have longevity, and you want to have it feel like a family business like a restaurant where people come in and everybody knows your name. So that that's where that comes from, right? It fails at an at scale company with this many shareholders. That's failing. You need to have a

SPEAKER_180: performance based environment. Mm hmm. And I think that was that was part of the Netflix leadership culture that was shout out to Nick remind me of the name of our of the woman who wrote the culture

SPEAKER_181: book, Aaron, before Aaron, minor Meyer Meyer did the book. She was the one from the French university

SPEAKER_10: who wrote the book with Reed Hastings. But before that, Patty McCord was the HR person who would drive to Netflix every day with Reed and discuss and created the philosophy and then basically codified

SPEAKER_79: it. Aaron is the one who studied it. So they're both incredible books. So Aaron's book is no rules, rules with Reed Hastings. I would say that powerful is the better book. Because it is sort of like the source materials. I give it a slight edge, but I would read both.

SPEAKER_180: Um, because Patty McCord is like a hardcore HR person who was like, listen, it's a, it's not a family. It's a team. I think she's the one who came up with that. Oh, really? It's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_94: But then Aaron does a really good job of analyzing and questioning all the stuff. So they're, they're kind of like bookends. But here we're a team, not a family. This is the culture deck from Netflix. And so one day we'll go through the culture deck as just like an interesting segment, I think. But we're a team, not a family. We're like a pro sports team, not a kid's recreational team. Netflix leaders hire, develop and cut smartly so that we have stars in every position. There you go. And this is a quote from Patty. We decided to use the metaphor that the company was like a sports team, not a family, just as great sports teams are consistently scouting for new players and calling others

SPEAKER_05: from their lineups. Our team leaders would need to continually look for talent and reconfigure team

SPEAKER_194: makeup. So now, do we need to be mad at Barry? Cause he didn't credit Patty McCord with

SPEAKER_198: this, the identical metaphor. No, I think it's no, I know. Oh, you're making a callback.

SPEAKER_08: I'm making a callback. You made a callback and I didn't get it. That was a call, cool your jets, commenters. That was a comedic callback. Callback. But yes, uh, I, I wonder if he did say, uh,

SPEAKER_21: and Barry was at Netflix at the time that this theory was developed. Anyway, whatever. It was

SPEAKER_109: literally a joke. We should do a show also on the Netflix mafia. Not, you know, I wonder where all the

SPEAKER_94: Netflix mafia wound up. That would be a really interesting, uh, double click is like, where did they want all wind up? Cause they're just sick operators. I mean, they have the most cutthroat for Silicon Valley, like particularly jarringly cutthroat approach. Like makes Amazon look, you know, a little docile by comparison. Cause they made everybody. I don't know if you know about this Molly. Everybody has to reapply for their job every year. Yeah. That's a little hardcore.

Jason Calacanis: Even, uh, Justin, producer, Justin saying in the Slack that even Patty had to leave the company.

SPEAKER_211: She was like, yeah, I'm not. Well, maybe she was just like, yeah, maybe my time here is.

SPEAKER_214: Yeah. Oh, when more Hollywood got it. Yeah. I mean, the skillset went from being a pure tech recruiter to needing to understand how to work with different types of talent and teams to manage that. That was no longer in her core skillset to be since the, the key part was content development. She acknowledged that she didn't have that skillset. Wow. Awesome. All right.

Jason Calacanis: Uh, anything else on Peloton? Fascinating. Um, no, except I can't wait to see what keeps coming. In fact, even now they announced games. Did you see this? They announced sort of like a Beat Saber ride along game, which then of course caused my child to come home and be like, we have to get rid of our crappy one and get a Peloton. I was like, yeah, okay. Wait, what if there's a

SPEAKER_02: ride along game? It's, it looks like Beat Saber, like you're riding along and I think you hit it a little, I don't know. I just see a screenshot, but I'm sure there's a video of it somewhere.

SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so they're making moves. Great. I mean, that would be good for people who are,

SPEAKER_79: who like that style of gamification, not competing against other people, but competing against themselves. Really smart. Yep. Yep. Brilliant. Listen, Squarespace is the one platform where you

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SPEAKER_03: All right. Now we're going to give some ill-advised investment investment advice. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02: It's not a disclaimer. This next segment of the show should not be taken as investment advice from qualified professionals. However, a thread went viral over the weekend where people on Twitter were choosing which tech stocks of the ones that were down over 60% off their one year highs were the best investments going forward. And Jason and I actually did a version of this when we did some of yes,

SPEAKER_00: no IPO. And we talked about whether you would choose Netflix over crypto actually as like a five or 10 year hold. So Twitter user Buco Capital named after Artie Buco of the Sopranos tweeted the

SPEAKER_02: following over the weekend, a list of 60 companies who have seen pullbacks from their one year highs

SPEAKER_226: and said, gun to your head, you're all in on one business here. Which one? And why?

SPEAKER_180: Yeah. And we got a good list here of companies. Obviously, I have a position in one or two of

SPEAKER_94: these. I'll disclose those as we go. And this great correction of 70, 80%. It's basically a massive crash. Let's just be honest. It's a we have a crash in growth stocks. Now what's a growth stock?

SPEAKER_79: Growth stocks are kind of these mid cap, you know, call it a billion to $10 billion companies typically could be as high as 50 billion, you know, depending on which timeframe we're talking about here, they could have been 15 compressed down to 10, like many of them have. But these are the ones

SPEAKER_94: with billions in revenue, not the fang, not, you know, the Tesla's that the Google's not the apples,

SPEAKER_04: we're talking about, you know, the mid market companies, whether it's zoom, peloton, coinbase, Robin Hood, etc. Some and some some lesser, you know, clover health, there's actually there's

SPEAKER_02: virgin galactic, I think it's in here, you average galactic is in there down.

SPEAKER_146: Uh, something great. Anyway, clever health down 93%. I lost it in this list, but so wish down 91%

SPEAKER_21: down 86%. And these are from peaks down 84%. Yeah, there was one thing I would note here

SPEAKER_10: is that there, I would say most of these are artificially high, because there was this moment

SPEAKER_167: at the top of the peak, where things went up, like, you know, let's call it 20% of these 80% drops.

SPEAKER_94: That was completely ridiculous and lived for like a week or two. And it was, I remember seeing it with the Robin Hood stock, I think Robin Hood peaked at like 60 or 70. But

SPEAKER_21: for like one day, yeah, 85 was the peak and it was crazy. Like, yeah, it was right after the IPO, it did this crazy peak, it was like, maybe some people had automatic buying or something going on, or maybe everybody on Robin Hood wanted to buy a share or something. She had this weird behavior. So I think looking at if you if you took out just like, whatever the peak of these stocks were for like one week, I bet you these would be very muted because there was a little bit of a mania that

SPEAKER_08: happened. Well, yeah, I mean, GameStop is in here. And so is Viacom and it's like, oh, are they

SPEAKER_02: down 70%? Kel surprise. So a little bit of his, but this question of like, if you had to pick producer, Nick was nice enough to volunteer, to do a little analysis on 10 of these companies, roughly, um, I'm sorry, a dozen. And we and challenge us to pick our top two. Okay.

SPEAKER_242: Starting with Robin Hood. Yeah, I mean, Robin Hood, obviously, I'm a shareholder and was an angel

SPEAKER_11: investor in and invested before they went public. You know, this, I think the proper valuation of a company like this would be 30 billion. It's at 10 billion right now. If you look at it, the price to

SPEAKER_05: sales ratio on the current market cap for 2021 revenue is 5x, you know, I could see that being 10 or 15. But they did have this peak when everybody was trading like crazy during the pandemic. So there's some pandemic stocks here. I think Shopify falls into that as well, where people were doing a lot of e commerce, because they were stuck at home and then they couldn't go to stores. So I look at a company like Robin Hood, like I look at Airbnb, you know, you have that like weird pandemic behavior and kind of got to draw the straight line as opposed to the spike. But I still think it's a great company. I haven't sold my shares. And I'm going to hold for 10 years is my current plan.

SPEAKER_79: All right. So that's when you think in decades, you know, I like to think in decades. And I think a

SPEAKER_180: decade from now, they will have five 10 times as many users, I could see them having 50 to 100 million users. And I can see those people having a lot of money in their accounts as they grow. So that's definitely going to be one of my top twos, I think Twilio. Another interesting one.

SPEAKER_50: Twilio down 65% from its 52 week high of $457 a share market cap 28.5 billion 2021 revenue 2.8 billion up 61%. But the net loss was 950 million, two times larger than 2020, which was a bad year for most people.

David Friedberg: I think, you know, I don't even look at the losses in these companies, unless

SPEAKER_180: they're like, really, really, like, there's no way for this business to be profitable. The first two businesses, they obviously can be profitable. So, um, uh, it can be highly profitable, I believe. So, you know, Twilio at, uh, 10 times sales, it's a decent valuation. It's at 10 X right now, right? Yeah. 2.8 and 20 billion. Almost exactly.

SPEAKER_146: Like almost exactly. I know this is the kind of math I love. Yeah. So that feels,

SPEAKER_180: that feels kind of directionally correct. I think if you were thought it was going to be a great company, you could go as high as 15. And then if you were more conservative, you could be 7, 8, 9, 10.

SPEAKER_04: Uh, but that feels like an okay buy. If you were going to hold it for 10 years, this is, but remember this is, you're all in. I know that's what I got to think.

SPEAKER_02: You only get to do exactly. Yeah. So there's a strong vote for Robinhood. That was like sort of a, that was a lukewarm. I'm going to say for Twilio zoom. Let's look at zoom down 70% from its 52

SPEAKER_00: week high, which I think we can all agree was inflated in the sense that everybody was like, Oh crap. There's only one company in the world right now. That thing is zoom. It's stock price. That was still at $128 a share market cap, 38 billion. Um, last 12 months revenue was 3.9

SPEAKER_02: billion up two times over the prior 12 months. The question is, are they going to keep at it?

SPEAKER_177: It sounds like big whale customers are growing for zoom, but it's growth with smaller customers

SPEAKER_259: installed. They don't want to pay for it. Yeah. I think there'll be a lot of free options, but I think

SPEAKER_05: zoom will become a platform. I don't know if you saw, they have the app store now and there's a lot of people doing like conf, you know, online conference software air meat, um, and hop in would be two of them. I think a lot of those businesses are going to be challenged, uh, by zoom wanting to be in that business a bit and zoom will keep adding features. So I can see zoom becoming in a way like, uh, AWS, where like zoom is your video conferencing layer on your computer and everything is kind of built on top of that in a way like slack is. So I see it as a platform play. I do think some of those custom softwares like hop in an air meet will always be ahead on feature. So they'll get the high end customers, but maybe the lower end customers will want to use the features that are free and zoom or more likely zoom and air meet and zoom and hop in will have like some shared DNA.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love the idea of zoom becoming a platform. That's super interesting. Cause you could imagine, I mean, it's one thing to sort of have APIs where it can plug in, like you can schedule a Google calendar and it's like, make it a zoom meeting. That's great. And as plugins with Calendly,

SPEAKER_02: but if it also started to incorporate more productivity features, like messaging more than just the chat to do list, uh, persistent messaging would be taking persistent messaging.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly. Like if it started to be a little bit of a slack or a communications platform,

SPEAKER_167: then all of a sudden, or what if when it's really interesting, what if I could swap out slacks, you know, kind of, you know, pretty basic video conferencing and say, you know, like on your phone, you pick, uh, you want to use which browser you want to use slack should just make it. So I could pick, I use slacks, native video conferencing, or I use zooms. And then when I do a zoom, when I do a little huddle or a conference call in slack, it's a zoom,

SPEAKER_79: you know, and you get the zoom interface and the features I like with zoom and, and whatever other plugins are in zoom, then we're kind of passed on to slack. That would be kind of dope. Wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_177: Yes, that would be super cool. Like zoom with a better slack is better than slack with a better zoom. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_79: And then that's the other possibility. Zoom just says, Hey, listen, you logged in with that

SPEAKER_94: launch.co or at, you know, whatever startup name at this week in startups. And here's a list of everybody at this week in startups. So when zoom is loaded, there's just by default, the chat room of all the this week in startups, email addresses, that'd be amazing. Like, why not make it an amazing system? Like, it could be like, yeah, I see it more like Yahoo messenger aim or Skype and its functionality as opposed to a bunch of channels. But why not a bunch of channels? Yeah. I mean, you could put a calendar into it. I could see them using zoom as a jump off point to

SPEAKER_05: build an office suite for sure. Yeah. Like why not have a, I mean, building a word processor is super easy. So if you had a built-in word processor, a note taker, like you mentioned, what about a

SPEAKER_180: built-in spreadsheet? So maybe buy Zoho office or something like that by one of those office suites and incorporate it in. It could be kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_50: I know. Zoom is all of a sudden a lot more interesting. And as Nick points out, very profitable. So they do have money to invest and maybe build out more of a business ecosystem.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah. Which would be pretty sexy. All right. Square. Let's keep it rolling. Square or block.

SPEAKER_02: Love Square. I own some shares in Square. This is all in. This is an all in situation. Stock price, $94 a share down 67% from its 52 week high of $289 a share market cap, $54 billion. Revenue double the prior 12 months. Potential risk factors are that Square's revenue from staking Bitcoin made up about 60% of its total revenue in the first nine months of 2021. Yep. So the, I think the biggest

SPEAKER_08: risk factor here is Square's potential pivot into all crypto all the time. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good

SPEAKER_11: point. I don't think they're going to go all crypto all the time. I think it's like more of an additive

SPEAKER_285: thing and like a future bet. So 60% of total revenue in the first nine months of 2021.

SPEAKER_167: It's yes, that is a big number that feels to me like that just feels to me like a moment in time.

SPEAKER_94: I wonder if they can keep that up. And if you don't know, uh, according to Barron Square buys Bitcoin

SPEAKER_11: and it takes a small margin on each sale to customers on the cash app. So if you're a cash app customer, you buy some Bitcoin, they get a little margin on that, which seems fair to me since they're floating all that Bitcoin, but they're also only trading at if they have 16 billion in revenue and

SPEAKER_291: they're 54, they're trading like three times. So yeah, it's pretty, it's the lowest so far, uh,

SPEAKER_02: of sales to valuation. So they do. I mean, I think that a fully focused Jack Dorsey is a blessing or a curse with it because of his focus on turning this thing from square into block.

SPEAKER_296: Got it. So yeah, he could make the, he might, he's capable of making a huge bat like meta did and it being the mistake. So he could bet the house. I don't know. That's an interesting

SPEAKER_301: observation actually, you know, just saying this, if this is, if I only can pick one kind of risk factor I like, I'll be honest. I kind of like that risk factor of somebody who would make a bold bet. It's like, it's big and fun and exciting. Yeah. Listen, when you start scaling revenue quickly,

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SPEAKER_50: Stock price $10 a share down 65% from its 52 week high market cap $6.5 billion revenue at $4.4 billion up 90% year over year. Purchased 15,000 homes in Q3. That was up 79% over Q2 and launched five new markets in Q3 up to 44 markets total. It's a brilliant business idea. We're not making new

SPEAKER_58: homes. I think in terms of how clever the idea is, this is going to be in the top of my list for like,

SPEAKER_94: like good timing to be a market leader in something, you know, owning these homes, buying them, and then making it really easy to sell them. It's a really good idea. And I'm just a fan of Keith Roboy and his operational ability. The market cap is absolutely destroyed. Nobody believes in it. So part of like betting the farm on this stuff, I guess we have to define if you had to bet the farm, are you going for preservation of capital or increasing capital? Right? So if you're going for preservation, maybe that's the way we should pick our two, which one would you pick as the preserving capital? You know, you want to give your kids something, right? Leave something for

SPEAKER_79: your kids, or which one could have the most explosive returns? Okay, that's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_02: And open door has some open door is super interesting, because that's such a wide open

SPEAKER_00: field to be in case you don't know, I mean, it's literally just makes it super easy to sell by and finance your house. And it's disrupting this kind of real estate market that involves like huge percentages on each side of the transaction. That is an industry right for disruption, for sure. But there are dependencies here, including the housing market, that if we're talking about a you know, you can only pick one or you can only pick two in over a decade. We have to assume, based on historical patterns that there's going to be some kind of a housing crash. So

SPEAKER_38: what does that do to them?

SPEAKER_167: Housing crash might arguably make their business better, they could buy up more homes,

SPEAKER_94: lease them, and they know how to buy homes low. So even if the housing market crashed, maybe that would give them some opportunity. It's really interesting to think I think they should steal the Picasso model. Are you aware of Picasso, the time trick? So I was going to do this when I was looking at buying a ski house, they take a house, they create eight shares, I had the founder on the pod before you joined me as co host. And so let's say it's a $5 million house, which is

SPEAKER_21: kind of what they're going for is the like, you know, high end homes in a destination, you divide by eight, that's how many days you get, they charge you like maybe 10% more. That's how they make their profit on setting up the home, then the eight people own the home, and open door manages it. So then you have an app, and let's say you own two shares, I owned one share, you would have a

SPEAKER_94: quarter of the days, I'd have an eighth a quarter of 365 days, you get the idea 10% of it would be 36 days. So a quarter would be, you know, two and a half times that so you'd have like, almost 100 days in this house, I would have less and you then book it in an app. And then if there's like ski weeks or holidays, I think they have prime days, and it manages it through an algorithm like so if you get Christmas this year, I'll get it next year, you get Easter, whatever the the prime days are.

SPEAKER_11: What it does is it makes owning a second home accessible to the people who maybe aren't there yet, or they have a more efficient use of the second home. And it's better for the planet, right? Like, you have a lot of affluent people buying second ski homes that they use, you know, x number of days a

SPEAKER_05: year. Yeah. And it's kind of a waste, right? So Picasso CEO, Austin Allison was on episode 1288 in September 2021. They got banned in Napa for being like a timeshare. I think it was Napa they the Nimbys up there really hated it, which is kind of dumb, because then you're just gonna have rich people buy up all the homes and not be there. So it's more efficient to have it divided by eight. But this is something that open door could do with homes, and then even put some of them into the Airbnb inventory. So imagine in this theoretical, you know, let's pick a house in a destination, you might want to go for a week or two, let's say two weeks a year, um, Palm Springs, get Palm Springs house, you know, you sell half the days to the ownership group, and the other half days, you put in an Airbnb, you have somebody managing the home, and they're managing 20 homes, it's better for society. So this is what open doors should be looking at. I think they should

SPEAKER_00: go hard into that area. I think they should. I mean, I still maintain there are some headwinds, and not least of them might be, I mean, that Nimbysm isn't going to go away, but nor is I think pressure on figuring out housing stock, because you are having a lot of investors buy housing stock. And I feel like at some point, regulators are going to come for that. Oh, yeah, it's on the radar,

SPEAKER_177: you're absolutely right. The national crisis, you know, housing stock, housing availability and prices.

SPEAKER_10: There have always been these, what do they call them? Shadow buyers or something.

SPEAKER_79: There's just like a group of people who've always been buying them as investments. So they'll buy up a bunch of homes and, you know, then take them off the market and then sell them

SPEAKER_84: later. So they're, they're actually, you have like massive hedge fund investments in it and, you know,

SPEAKER_180: yeah. Zillow got their asses handed to them in this space. Yep.

SPEAKER_146: And Zillow is also should be on this long term risk here. I guess. Yeah. I wonder if Zillow is in Zillow got demolished. They're down 60, 70, 80% as well. I know. I don't see them in the tweet. I

SPEAKER_118: don't think keep going Roku, Roku, Roku down 75%. They've gotten totally demolished. Uh, market cap,

SPEAKER_94: 16 billion, 2021 revenue, 2.7 billion, which puts their price to sales at six X not bad. Yeah. 60

SPEAKER_180: million active accounts. I don't, I don't know what they're paying. I think that just means people are using it.

SPEAKER_94: I hate hardware businesses. I know they have their own ad network. And I think people are very excited about that because streaming is growing. Uh, but man, they're up against Samsung, Apple TV, other built in platforms, every TV I see that's, you know, if you look at a remote control on a TV now, it's like, there's a Netflix button, Amazon prime button, a Disney button, those people pay for that.

SPEAKER_79: I mean, in the future, who's buying Rokus? I don't understand who needs this. Is it somebody with an

SPEAKER_02: old TV? I think that's what it is. I mean, I think that, well, it's, or Roku is built into TVs. Like my T, my TCL has. Oh, does it? It's a Roku TV. Got it. So I think that their, their only future is in TVs and smart devices, but that's slower sales than the box. Yeah. This is

SPEAKER_00: Roku. I think to me, it doesn't feel like a longterm. I mean, they are actually expecting and predicting that revenue is going to continue to decrease. They're expecting a 30 million loss in

SPEAKER_50: Q1 2022. That revenue will decrease 16% quarter over quarter. Yeah. This seems like the worst possible

SPEAKER_11: business you could be in. No, only because you're up against, you know, you're up against a lot of headwinds here. I kind of wonder, you know, does anybody really need this anymore? And how hard is it to build this functionality into a TV? So you said you have a, what was the brand of TV? You had

SPEAKER_05: that had a TCL, TCL. I've never even heard of a TCL TV. But I wonder, I know Sony and Samsung are two of the top players, and they have their own built in, right, proprietary, like, I'd rather have

SPEAKER_02: the TCL. It's not proprietary. It's just Roku, right? Like it's an in, then pretty much every

SPEAKER_00: platform is available on it, except for when YouTube and wrote to wrote who get into a big, huge fight, which is yet another headwind for Roku. Yeah, you know, they, they're, they've been

SPEAKER_08: having a lot of fights with Google about whether they can have YouTube or YouTube TV. It's like,

SPEAKER_10: but the issue is what would Samsung or Sony ever bundle or have they ever bundled Roku?

SPEAKER_344: Feels to me like they haven't nor would they because they consider this their business to be in.

SPEAKER_02: And I'm ordering smart TV advertising attached to this, there's no scenario in which people are going

SPEAKER_00: to want to continue to outsource that to a third party like TCL does it because they're a budget TV maker with, uh, you know, and they're from China and they don't haven't built their own, I think, like operating system for TVs. But I don't think that's enough of a high margin business for Roku long

SPEAKER_195: term. Apple was rumored to be in the TV business. I heard that from a bunch of folks insiders back

SPEAKER_05: in the day, they were looking at it in the Steve Jobs era of actually Apple TV being an Apple TV, right? Because they really had great design. I mean, who wouldn't buy one of those if you're an Apple

SPEAKER_94: fan? I wonder why Apple wouldn't go to s because I know Apple TV plus the content is now I see defaulted on a bunch of services. I wonder if it's Samsung and Sony who wouldn't put build an Apple TV into their products. But if I was Apple, man, if you could cut a deal with Samsung, I guess they're

SPEAKER_333: mortal enemies on the smartphone basis. So it's not possible. But if they went in and went to all

SPEAKER_94: these TV makers like TCL and said, Hey, we'll put Apple TV in here and we'll pay for it. And you could sell or we'll make it only 50 bucks for you. I mean, Apple TV getting more market share would be

SPEAKER_283: brilliant for Apple. But they don't think that way. They don't think about like that kind of wide

SPEAKER_267: distribution. I know. I mean, somebody like I wrote a piece about it, how it's really the innovators

SPEAKER_00: dilemma with Apple, like they are kind of trapped in a box right now in that box is about this big

SPEAKER_94: and runs iOS, you know, I'm actually thinking Apple is the best long term stuff. Yeah, you know why I just feel like I feel like they're gonna get all of our talk about the goggles. The more we've talked about it, the more like, I've got Kool-Aid in my veins, I've got the Apple Kool-Aid in my veins, I just think they're going to now like they did the iPad and iPhone, I think they're going to make a brilliant product. Yeah, that is going to surprise everybody because they're taking their time.

SPEAKER_05: I think it's going to just be a function step better than anything we've seen.

Jason Calacanis: I really don't. And like, you know, to defend the focus on the little box like

SPEAKER_00: that has that keeps Apple so relevant because they are just in front of every consumer all the time. There are no phone maker can come along and disrupt them at this point. They're not going to get disrupted until we get rid of phones. And they're probably the ones who are going to make the thing that gets rid of phones. So I mean, I agree in terms of like a super long term bet. I think they're not on this list because they didn't lose enough. For obvious reasons, they

SPEAKER_02: didn't tank. I thought though, one of the ones we did not. So we also did this analysis with Stitch Fix, Roblox, Peloton, Affirm, and Bumble. But we didn't do one of the ones that was on this list that I if I

SPEAKER_00: really had to go all in in the long term. It's on the bigger list, but we didn't do the breakdown is CRISPR. Hmm. Like interesting. Why not CRISPR? I mean, the whole the body like we're talking about

Jason Calacanis: computing platforms like phones and glasses. Now CRISPR is the general word for the technology,

SPEAKER_03: but there's a company CRISPR. There's a company CRISPR therapeutics,

SPEAKER_128: AG. Let's see in 2019, $4 billion market cap price to earnings ratio of 12x, but price to sales, I don't have their sales number here. 52 week high 169. So it's now trading. It's more than two

SPEAKER_00: there. It's off. Yeah. It's investors include German chemical company Bayer. Um, and it is the co-founders, one of the co-founders, Emmanuel Charpentier shared the Nobel prize in chemistry with Jennifer Doudna. Okay. I just think they have several drugs in

SPEAKER_02: development. I'm reading from Wikipedia. One, uh, treats a rare blood disorder, sickle cell disease is one of the things that it can treat. And then let's see. Yep. So safety and efficacy, efficacy. I just think like the potential,

SPEAKER_00: obviously of the body as a platform, a computing platform and a company that is taking advantage of that and has a potential like that. That's your wildcard pick. That's my wildcard. That's my gun to my

SPEAKER_130: head all in wildcard. Um, all right. From the rest of the list, I don't think I have to go through this

SPEAKER_79: too hard, but Peloton is down 80%. It's at a 9.5 market cap. We talked about it earlier in the show. It's only trading at 2.3 X and they got this new superstar CEO. I think we've both liked that one a lot.

SPEAKER_180: Roblox is down 67% from a crazy high. They're down to $46 share, which I think is their, what was their IPO? Was it 46 or 45 or something? 35? It was 35. So they're kind of back to their IPO price. All that value has been knocked out, but they have a lot of revenue 1.9, but that's a high market cap considering that. So 14 X really interestingly, 45 million daily active users is bonkers. Yep. I mean, that's the thing about that

SPEAKER_346: company is it's a sleeper. It's got all that pent up energy and that's got to come to the

SPEAKER_02: bottom line at some point you think. And the average Roblox user spent two and a half hours per day on the platform in 2021. Although to be fair, eventually all of those children did have

SPEAKER_376: to go back to school. So I think, yeah, bummer. That's the COVID, that's that COVID at home.

Jason Calacanis: Yeah. That's when no one cared about screen time anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Parents were just like,

SPEAKER_73: I just need to survive this. You can have your iPad until four in the morning. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I mean, again, open platform, like all of that is great, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_180: And, you know, while we're recording this, uh, you know, the, the, the, the saber rattling continues, uh, in Europe and the NASDAQ is down 1.75 down, down 1.83%. Right. So these things could

SPEAKER_242: even be more on sale than we're even talking about now in the coming weeks. All right. Let's just go

SPEAKER_02: for it. Nick is trying to focus us here on our final choices. The first thing we do that's most upside for appreciation. Okay. And then the second is safest bet to not lose money. Okay.

SPEAKER_64: Does it have to be from this list? I know. I think you can pick from the ones we highlighted

SPEAKER_10: because those were like, no, anything that's on that list of 80 or whatever. Yeah. I am. Okay.

SPEAKER_11: I'm looking, I'm going through that as well. Yeah. Well, let's see. I'm going to be a little biased here.

SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm I feel like Robin hood has the most upside. Uh, I still believe in the company. I know the founders, I think they're brilliant marketing people. I think it'll be, you know, a $250 billion company, uh, 10 years from now, 25 X, I could see it going, uh, at least 10 X to a hundred billion. So that's why I'm holding my shares. I think, you know, if the stock market doubles in the next 10 years, or if it has an incredible run again and triples, I would think

SPEAKER_11: that this would be a market beating company based on the management and the fact that they've got 17 million people, it's incredibly hard to get 17 million people to have active accounts,

SPEAKER_05: uh, with money in them in finance. Those are like much more valuable than a Netflix subscriber or a

SPEAKER_94: free, you know, Spotify user, let's say in my mind. Yeah. So Robin hood's my upside choice. And I'm still thinking about which one I think has the lowest downside, you know, and a consumer product typically could be one that catches fire and a SAS product would be one that has less risk because

SPEAKER_180: SAS is generally more stable, right? SAS is like farming and consumers like finding a needle in a haystack, you know, it's like splitting arrows. So who do you got for your safety and who do you got

SPEAKER_80: for your, which one do you want to do first your safety or your man upside? I mean, I think my upside

SPEAKER_08: is crisper. Okay. Even though we didn't go through all there. I just think like, I like it. I'm not

Jason Calacanis: betting against that. Um, it's a bull bet on the future, right? Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Now safety

SPEAKER_02: bet on our long-term health, but my safety is a tougher one. I mean, if we're, if we're talking about a 10 year horizon, as much as I love what Barry's doing, like, it's hard for me to imagine Peloton

SPEAKER_194: no staving off all competitors for 10 years. I wouldn't pick a consumer company because consumers

SPEAKER_79: are fickle. And so there's not safety in consumer because consumers will flip flop. They'll use

SPEAKER_94: Facebook one day and then Instagram and then tick tock. And they're, they'll take their two or three hours from Minecraft and put it on Roblox. They'll take it from Roblox and put it on VR next. Who knows?

Chamath Palihapitiya: Exactly. Consumers are fickle and they're flighty and, um, they like shiny new objects. Now zoom and Twilio. I know. I think those are the ones I like in that area. Yeah. So looking at those two,

SPEAKER_10: you have to ask yourself, which one do you see people not churning from or competition?

SPEAKER_94: Yeah. I think it's very easy to turn from zoom to use Microsoft teams because I have a couple of boards I'm on where they use Microsoft teams and they get a Microsoft teams, not a zoom invitation. And I'll be honest, it makes no difference to me. Uh, and I think they're going to fix hangouts, uh, at Google. And so I could see headwinds there, but I don't see any natural competitor for Twilio except Amazon, but Twilio seems to be sharper and, you know, goes into a deeper software

SPEAKER_11: layer. So I'm going to go my long-term safety bet being Twilio. I don't think that that 2.8 billion in revenue is at risk in any way. And I only see it going up. Yeah. Once you build that stuff into software, it's hard to rip out and replace it. It's not impossible, but you would only rip out and replace it. If there was a much better product, not 10, 20, 30% better, but you know,

SPEAKER_79: two, three times better. And you certainly wouldn't rip it out for cost unless there was something that

SPEAKER_251: was, you know, three, four, five X cheaper. And, uh, Jeff, the founder is still there. I think

SPEAKER_194: he's a world-class CEO, zoom also founder let, so that's something, but what do you think? Maybe

SPEAKER_00: I don't understand enough about what Twilio does because I have a hard time understanding how it's

SPEAKER_02: not displaced by like Twilio is not cloud services, right? It's like communications and yeah, it's more

SPEAKER_79: like Amazon web services for email, SMS, and then segment, right? They bought segments. So they got

SPEAKER_11: this like collection of the industry leading brands for doing communications inside of your software platform. So it would be very analogous to, you know, I think if you look at Amazon web services, they have compute and storage, and then there's these communication layers and Amazon does have an email gateway product. It's just not as good. And they're not as focused on it because it's one of, you know, X number of things, but they do have competition. So I guess now that I'm talking it

SPEAKER_94: through with you, the question is, maybe I'll change my decision. The question is, which one do you

SPEAKER_10: think is if you're going for the long-term safety, do you think which one is going to have a

SPEAKER_11: harder time zoom with Google and Microsoft attacking them from both sides, right? Cisco. So you got these three major competitors with major footprints already in the space. So can they keep their market share from those three now that those three are super highlighted towards it, let's say, or focused on it now when they see zoom having such great success and any of those three could make it free and make

SPEAKER_79: money from other things. Yeah. And then Twilio is up against Amazon web services and to a lesser sense, uh, Azure, but Azure is actually doing really well. So I guess. All right. Well,

SPEAKER_08: all right. Now that we've talked this through, I don't think either of those are my safety pick.

SPEAKER_243: I think my safety pick is open door. Oh, I like it. Wow. Why? Because everybody's always in the one houses. All right. Love it. I'm going to go Twilio. You go open

SPEAKER_11: door. Yeah. Amazing. Uh, Hey, you know, you went to your speaking gig. Yeah. And you saw an incredible company. So we'll, I mean, we'll make this our startup of the day. Sort of just

SPEAKER_167: going to say startup of the day. I love startup of the day. Tell us Molly about the startup of the day that you saw when you were at, and I'm so proud of you. You're now like, you know, going to

SPEAKER_420: be like the bell of the ball, the, the interviewee, as opposed to the interviewer.

SPEAKER_21: The interview to the big leagues. And by the way, you know, I do four speaking gigs a year. I get paid a fortune for them. Uh, you've got a pretty good rate. Uh, and what I'm hoping is like one of these

SPEAKER_167: big corporates are like, you know, would be great if J Cal and Molly came and we could just

SPEAKER_28: secure the bags. We just run out there, grab the bags and then bring our squad with us. Package deal with the package deal two for one. Let's go. Let's go. What I always do when I get

SPEAKER_283: those, but you'll experience this. So like I had these speaking gigs in Japan. I get this one over here, Australia. Like I just take the money and I bring like three or four of our team members and we go crazy spending it. Oh, what a good idea. Yeah. It's good to be rich. So we went to Australia and I rented a yacht, like a 40 foot yacht for maybe 35 or $40,000. Cause I had these speaking gigs. I was like, screw it. Yeah. I don't need the money. So I took crash and a bunch of other folks, uh, sales guy, Matt, uh, for selling out Q2 and we went, we got, we dove the great barrier reef.

SPEAKER_429: And I was like, guys, here's your bucket list. It's on J Cal. Then I took him to Japan

SPEAKER_430: and we, they didn't stay as a nice old, this is me, but you know, I took him to Japan. I was like, Hey, anybody want to roll to Japan with J Cal took a couple of my crew to Japan. We hit everything. We hit the best coffee place, the best Katsu place, the best tempura place, the best sushi place.

SPEAKER_435: I spent maybe 10 grand on food with these guys. We crushed it, crushed it. That is so awesome, man.

SPEAKER_257: So much fun. It's good to work for me. I am. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm only sorry. I joined during the pandemic, but luckily it's going to open up so far for six weeks. Okay. No regrets.

SPEAKER_00: Really wonderful though. My dad used to say like always that he was always like, if you win the lottery in life, the first thing you have to do is take everybody you love on the best vacation of their lives. Absolutely. Splash of cash is my philosophy. It's incredible. I love it.

SPEAKER_75: All right. So you were at, uh, give a shout out to the conference you're at. Yeah. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: these are, these are great events. This one is called green biz. Um, and, and they do a

SPEAKER_00: a series of events. This one was very focused on sustainability professionals. So like the CSOs and companies and government buyers and people who are trying to basically do ESG reporting. It was super interesting. And I was there because I had judged before I started here.

SPEAKER_50: This Verizon climate resilience prize. And so it was a bunch of start. It was great practice

SPEAKER_00: because it was December right before I started. And so I got to judge all these startups taking, you know, read their pitches and try to figure out how to give them this prize. Three of them one because they had three different categories and they were all really interesting. One is, you know, called hi-fi and it's doing stormwater assessment for flood risk and early warning

SPEAKER_50: detection and systems for flooding, which is obviously increasingly relevant, super incredible

SPEAKER_02: company around forestry, um, where the founder was formerly incarcerated and worked in the California

SPEAKER_00: fire camps in LA, the forestry and fire recruitment program got out, you know, was a, was, became an accomplished firefighter while incarcerated and then got out and couldn't get a job. And so put himself through Berkeley, figured out how to like cut all these barriers for himself and get a job as a firefighter. And now has a company that is, is creating a pipeline for formerly incarcerated

SPEAKER_50: people to become firefighters in California, but also training them to do all of the stuff we need to do to stop mega fire. So forest thinning and better forest management. So cool. And so inspiring. And then

SPEAKER_00: the one that's just like the, the amazing moonshot startup of the day is called Coral Vita. And this is

Jason Calacanis: the one I love. Yeah. I mean, this is speaking of scuba diving, the great, we gotta, we gotta have some

SPEAKER_02: serious conversations with them as they continue to raise them. Yeah. So they're doing, they call it

SPEAKER_08: coral as a service and they are, which is amazing. They are about creating these coral farms that can grow

SPEAKER_02: coral way, way, way, way faster. Regenerate coral reefs. Cause apparently coral takes like 30 to 90 years to grow. And they've figured out systems where they basically stress coral in coral farms to make

SPEAKER_00: it grow faster. And then they transplant it into its native areas, right? They're not taking coral from like one part of the world and trying to transplant it into a different part. They're respecting these complex ecosystems. Yeah. They're using their brains. Got it. They're using their brains, but you know, I mean, they, they point out that coral it's like crucial to tourism, fishery. It absorbs wave energy and protects coasts. It's like got a million economic add ons. And so governments in particular are interested in paying for paying them to maintain

SPEAKER_118: these farms. They have a whole platform. I mean, I could see Australia incredible spending a hundred

SPEAKER_180: million a year on this for 10 years. Yep. Um, and if it worked, maybe doubling it because the amount of tourism generated by the great barrier reef and the importance of the reef, uh, is, you know, it just

SPEAKER_94: can't be understated. And this is an amazing new category we're going to see where, you know, I think young entrepreneurs are looking at the world and saying, Hey, what did we break? And then not only how

SPEAKER_167: do we fix it, Molly, but I look at this as like, well, what if there were, you know, massive amounts of coral in, you know, uh, you know, off of long island off of Santa Monica and because of the shipping lanes and long beach or, you know, whatever's going on in New York, you know, the coral just didn't

SPEAKER_10: survive. Uh, and it hasn't been there in a large way in a hundred years. Like this, this might not be about preserving. This might be about bringing back. Yeah. You know, for the first time, the coral that certainly was in other parts of the world that's gone and, you know, I, I love the fact that we're now starting to think about fixing stuff and then what about if we had the, so regenerating is great.

SPEAKER_11: And then, and then we can start thinking about this opportunistically, like what are the impacts of coral? And if they're, you know, if temperatures are changing, because one of the problems I think in Australia is the water temperatures change. So maybe that coral can't exist there. Right. Or like coral at, at this average temperature, you know, in, in the mid part of Australia now can only exist a hundred miles north. So now you start thinking about our understanding through technology and sensors we could put on the water. We, they could actually know, Hey, the chances of this coral surviving a hundred miles north is going to be twice as good or 200 miles north or, Hey, this coral is just not going to survive here, but this other place is warming up. So let's drop it there and let's see, we'll do a little experiment there. Right. Obviously you gotta be intelligent about it, but

SPEAKER_05: man, this is like nature finds a way and humans doing it. So, I mean, gotta be careful here. Like

SPEAKER_11: it's got a little Jurassic park thing, but the coral is not going to get up and bite us. So I feel good about this one. It doesn't feel like they're making a megalodon. I don't know. And that was,

SPEAKER_00: I asked, right. Like I am always going sci-fi. And so I was like, tell me, talk to me about the, I am legend factor here. Like if you're breeding super coral, like these are really complex. He goes, you know, yeah. And what was interesting is that they, the guy I talked to as an advisor to the company, his brother is the CEO. And he was like, huh? No, one's really asked me about that before. And I was like, I'm sorry, what like, who are your investors? But he said that is, they've certainly had those conversations. You know, he was like, we'll put you in touch with

SPEAKER_38: the science team. We're having these, you know, they're not genetically modified modified coral.

SPEAKER_10: To be, in other words, if they, if somebody acts, if some kid, you know, takes these or a glow,

SPEAKER_167: an eco-terrorist drops them into San Francisco Bay, it's not going to fill the bay with coral.

SPEAKER_28: That's a hundred feet above the water line and destroy the bay. Exactly. Although that would kind of look cool. Probably. Just kidding. Probably, maybe not.

SPEAKER_08: When we have them on the show, we'll ask them about the out of control coral, but no, it really is. It's super interesting. And it brought up something, you know, that regeneration idea

SPEAKER_00: that I had not heard talked about particularly. We got to get the, this guy, the former CEO of Unilever has a book about being regenerative. He's just like, forget carbon neutral. That's a waste of time. Net zero waste of time. We have to regenerate. And it was just so interesting and cool. And then

SPEAKER_107: people are so, I mean, it was so inspiring to be there. Like people are so engaged and clever and creative. Let me ask you a candid question. Awesome. When you were just a journalist,

SPEAKER_10: and now you're a journalist kind of plus investor, how is your optimism, pessimism ratio changed if at

SPEAKER_02: all? Oh God, so much. I mean, really, I am. I've always been a solutions oriented person, which is why

SPEAKER_00: I was drawn to the idea of client, right? I'm just like, wait, we have tech, like fix this. Tech has

SPEAKER_02: saved humanity every other time, fire, wheel, penicillin. But now no, it's through the roof. It is through the roof. Like I spent the whole time at this conference being like, I can't, I don't remember the last time I loved a job this much. It is so thrilling. Every single day to talk to people who are just like, Oh, I have an idea for this. Instead of I have a complaint about this, or I've like taken apart all of the ways that this could go horribly wrong. And granted, yes, I did ask about the I am legend thing. The coral because yeah, it's a diligence question. No,

SPEAKER_439: what could go? But like, to talk about what is possible instead of what is impossible? Yeah, like that all by itself is just it's game changing. I think it's a disjoint every day.

SPEAKER_94: Yeah, I think it's the disjoint between I think a lot of members of our society, especially influential ones on Twitter, is you've got one group of people, you know, who see all the

SPEAKER_167: potential all day long. Yeah. And then when I was a journalist, at least your email box is firing

SPEAKER_21: off like, hey, you know, this company's screwing up, hey, this bad things happening in the world, why aren't you covering this? Why aren't you covering this? And you're just inundated,

SPEAKER_167: and I'm not making a judgment call because we you and I have done both jobs. And so now there's like, it's not just me, but you also have an experience of really, what's incoming to a journalist and I have sympathy for this as a journalist, you can get pretty negative. Yeah, because all it's like being a police officer, you know, like, if the police are getting called, it's because something's bad has happened in somebody's mind, they call 911, they're not getting called because they're like,

SPEAKER_21: oh, my God, this person got an A on their report card, we're having a party, want to come over?

SPEAKER_167: And it's like, no, somebody did something terrible, or it's the worst moment in their life,

SPEAKER_180: come try and help us mitigate the worst moment in this person's life. Kind of what journalism has turned into in a lot of cases. It's like, you know, hey, this company screwed up, hey, you know,

SPEAKER_94: this failed. And I just encourage people to, you know, try to find that balance, you know, and there's a good point for us to just bring up if you go to the syndicate.com climate, Molly and I are now running the syndicate together, just like my syndicate, the syndicate.com. And

SPEAKER_11: we're hoping that if you're accredited investor, you sign up. And if that coral company sounds interesting to you, like, our firm might put 2550 100k into it as a seed investment. And then we might have 250k or 500k left over, on average, the average syndicate investor, and there's 9500 members of them in my syndicate, I think 3000 in the SAS syndicate. And, you know, the climate syndicate hopefully will grow to 1000. That's a good number to sort of get started with deals is when you get to 500 to 1000, you'll have enough folks to if 10% choose to do a deal. The average check size is only 7000. So if you're a rich person or an affluent person making over 200,000 a year, you can look up the accreditation laws will help you with that you can sign up the syndicate.com slash climate, we're gonna make a bunch of bets, most are gonna fail. And then our hope is one out of 10 one out of 20 maybe return more than 10x or 20x. That is the name of the game. Only invest

SPEAKER_05: money, you can afford to lose, yada, yada. But if you're a rich person, I'm guessing a $7,000 investment is like a third of your vacation when you you know, buy business class tickets. So you're kind of and you can place a bet as small as I think our minimum is 4000. And we let people place you know, if they ask, and there's room, we'll let them place as little as 1000. So for an accredited investor, that's, that's a nice dinner with a couple of friends. Yeah, typically, or that's, you know, one night in a hotel, if you're staying at a nice hotel. So I'm excited about that as well. Hopefully, we'll have our first deal. March, I think would be a good goal, if we can get a

SPEAKER_07: deal out of March, and I got some more options for you. You've met with 30 companies already.

SPEAKER_130: And so I think I'm up to 40 now. Perfect. And I told you, like, I think it takes about 50 companies to kind of get your legs under you. Yeah. So you're starting to get a feel for it,

SPEAKER_08: right? I think, I think so. Yes, I am starting to be a lot more discerning. I definitely wanted to

SPEAKER_00: invest in like everything, every everything immediately. And everything that I read, you know, I'm like, now I'm reading this big Wiley textbook about venture, I'm continuing my homework in various places. And they all say the same thing. They're just like, Oh, yeah, no, you're just a tum tum and you want to invest in everything. And I'm like, Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_167: It is the, you know, I always tell people founders, the great ones, all either self select for charisma, or they quickly, you know, sharpen that skill. And so they're very charismatic when they

SPEAKER_94: pitch because they have to be because all they're doing is selling people on their idea customers,

SPEAKER_80: employees, and investors and the press. And then on top of that, they're all sitting here telling me how

SPEAKER_483: they're going to save the world. It's pretty compelling pitch. It's really hard to walk away from especially if you started a podcast, how we survive. My god, you're so dystopian Molly.

SPEAKER_488: It's over. People are like, here's how we survive. I'm like, Oh, my God,

SPEAKER_490: there's a 1% chance we survive. Follow me. I'm Molly. We're all gonna go. It's just gonna be real ugly. Yeah. Well, you know, listen, now you can actually and I'm developing a thesis. I'm developing a

SPEAKER_00: filter. Ah, a set of filters. Maybe we can talk about this in Sunday, BC school. It's not even a Goldilocks zone. It's more like a filter for evaluating impacts long term impact.

SPEAKER_64: Oh, I love it. Well, that's great. I mean, one of the things you write it up. Yeah, I think we are writing culture good to one of the things

SPEAKER_94: that investing at its best is about is like creating these mental models is the term a lot of VCs use, which is like, I got all the information I've constructed this startup, its product, its customers, the market, the future, its competitors. And it's all in my mind. And I'm

SPEAKER_167: looking at it like in 3d and moving it around like in my minority report with the gloves or, you know, like Tony Stark moving stuff around and you're kind of like understanding the chess board from all angles and each piece and what's gonna happen in three or four moves. And then some

SPEAKER_11: heuristics emerge. And the one that always worked for me was like, you know, we back builders, we back people who make great products. And if we back people who make great products, we'll see that product changing in real time. And then they're also tend to be really good at about debating issues in a really intellectually honest way. And so anytime I talked to Travis or Elon or, you know, Vlad or Robin Hood or Alex that come when you start talking to them, they really understand why they're doing what they're doing. And they're like helping you build your mental model up in your brain. And you'll start to see that like the coral company, if it is actually a really possible

SPEAKER_05: possibility, like your mind is going to all of a sudden understand like, yeah, there's a government agency that will pay for this. They have no choice. Oh, there's other agencies that will follow that will follow Australia if Australia goes for it, because it's, they're dependent on Mexico might not go for it, the plant car reef is doing fine. But these other places, Belize will be behind them. And then there's opportunistic people.

SPEAKER_94: Oh, what if they could put these in fish tanks, like, you know, that people do at home or fish tanks at aquariums, you know, all these things will start popping into your head.

SPEAKER_02: This is why, by the way, don't you want Jason on your board? I mean,

SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying like, the nap, the ease with which you ideate is kind of a joy to watch.

SPEAKER_94: Well, I'll tell you how that happened to be all, you know, flattery. Well, it wasn't always that way. But when you spend your entire life as a journalist, I think it's really good training because you are asking those questions, and you're building the mental

SPEAKER_167: model. And then you've done 50 media 4050 meetings in two months, all of a sudden, your brain is just used to filling in things, right? And so you're constructing the model. And let's say you didn't

SPEAKER_94: understand their customer base. That was what I was thinking about. Well, who's the customer base for this coral company, right? And I just started thinking, Okay, well, obviously, Australia,

SPEAKER_180: they got the most acute issue. Okay, Mexico, maybe, maybe not. I think the plant car reef is doing

SPEAKER_94: okay. Okay, there's got to be other people who have smaller budgets in Australia. Great. Where else would coral exist is the first thing that came to my mind? Or where could it exist? And then I immediately thought about aquariums. And then I thought about home. But what if they get really good at making these and people could put a coral aquarium, if they owned a beach house,

Chamath Palihapitiya: they could throw it out in front of their house, you know, and then you had mentioned,

SPEAKER_167: Oh, well, coral is really good for seawalls. So then I immediately thought, Well, what's the budget for a seawall? That sounds super expensive. Well, if we're going to do the seawall,

SPEAKER_94: and that's going to be a billion dollars to do what Amsterdam did, or what Venice is going to have to do around Florida and South Beach and Miami. Well, it's gonna cost a billion dollars to put

SPEAKER_05: Miami behind a seawall or many billion, maybe 10 billion. Maybe we should drop $100 million worth of coral in a pilot program and see what happens over the next two years, because we're not building that seawall for 10 years. So let's start doing the coral now. And if it works, well, okay, great.

SPEAKER_11: Yep. So really, it's like filling in the mental model, there'll be pieces you don't understand. It's like a map, and you're missing a piece of the map, or it's a formula, and there's like a variable in there. And you're just like, Okay, let me plug some numbers into the variable and see what I learn. Mm hmm. I, for some reason, I did very well at math when I was a kid, even though I didn't do good in the classes, but when I took standardized tests, and the technique I came up with was, I would, when there was a variable, I would just put numbers into it and do the equation and write it down. So I almost brute forced it. Right? Like, Oh, here's a number here. So like, okay, put the number 10 in, put the number 100, put the number three in, and I would just put it in, and then I would try and triangulate around the answer. And then my mind would, okay, yeah,

SPEAKER_05: it's gonna be somewhere between these numbers. Yeah, like, that's how I do back of the envelope math constantly.

Jason Calacanis: Yeah, anyway, no, it makes it I, I, I similar, but while it's pat at some point,

SPEAKER_00: it's pattern recognition. And when you talk to enough entrepreneurs who are telling you they're big, they're moonshot idea that's related to this, then you start to ask every other entrepreneur, well, what's your big idea related to this? And if they don't seem to have that, then that's a filter already. But also, there's the like, you can see the geometry outcome, even if you can't prove your work. That was my version of what you just said around math, which is like, yo, no, I got the answer. Because I like, I really like pool.

SPEAKER_79: All right, let's take two quick questions. Anyway, yeah, let's do that. Once again, the syndicate.com slash climate. And now I'll take two questions from our live audience. I don't know if this will make it into the program or not. Probably not because

SPEAKER_410: we're 75 minutes. But give us a quick question here. Hey, Jason, OG Bob GS. What did you learn from the book industry? What was your process like? What I learned from the book industry is they produce

SPEAKER_167: x number of books per year. So like a venture capitalist or angel investor, they have a portfolio, they don't expect the majority of books to pay back the advances they give, they expect one out of every 30 or 40 to be a breakout and make up for the other ones that didn't break out. And so they also if they're producing 100 books a year, and they have a marketing department that marketing department has two books a week to do, which means you get three days of promotion. And so I owned my own promotion, we got to 4000 books sold in the first week, if I had hit like 6000, I think I would have been a bestseller. So maybe I should have put a little more oomph behind it. But the book did

SPEAKER_94: incredibly well went to 11 languages for a very niche book. And so what I learned from it is the author is responsible for the marketing and promotion most of all, and the publisher will help you with that. And I think writing books is a great thing to do if you're an expert on the subject, and a great writer, and you have a passionate for it. And so what I see in the Venn diagram of books, Molly is a group of people who are not knowledgeable, like, so if you had knowledge,

SPEAKER_05: and ability to write, I felt like I'm a great writer, people love my writing. And I've honed it over decades. And I have a certain writing style that's authentic to me. It's very like funny and casual and blunt and provocative. It's like I talk. So I have a voice, but I didn't always have that it took me decades. And if you read my articles from the 90s, it's not even close. But I feel like I'm a great writer. And I know more than almost anybody about angel investing, where I'm in the top five or 10 people in the world. And then what I find is people can't write. And they're not a knowledge

SPEAKER_11: subject model expert. Yeah. So most of the books I get suck badly. And then a book like some point

SPEAKER_02: in your career, everybody tells you you have to write a book. And so then people just like poop this thing out. And right. It's it's just that. It's just that. Thank you for that. Sorry. If

SPEAKER_05: you look at Frank Slotman's book, which Frank from snowflake, snowflake was on the pod, it was

SPEAKER_11: going to create episode. He didn't talk about things. He was an expert. He talked about running a company, like a capitalist hardcore, wartime CEO. He did not talk about culture. He did, you know, work culture, like in the Netflix sense, he didn't talk about, you know, you know, stuff that was out of his zone of excellence. And whoever wrote it with him, I think he probably had somebody wrote it in his voice in a very candid fashion, felt that same way about Aaron's book and Patty McCord's book. They're experts. Yeah. And if you're an expert, and you're an okay writer, it's a good read. If you're a great writer and not an expert, it's not a good read. And what you're really going for is how good of a, and I think that's why Michael Lewis, uh, or Michael Crichton, um, are two of my favorite authors. Uh, and they resonate with me because they became subject matters experts on whatever they were talking about. And they just wrote so well, just really fast moving, you know,

SPEAKER_05: pros. Uh, I think Michael Crichton, I'm going to go back and read Michael Crichton. Cause I want to do a fiction book at some point. It's a great question. Anybody got a question for Molly? Uh, or one more question for us. We'll rip it out real quick. And I am writing the other book.

SPEAKER_146: I'm 20% done. Chase Lee, just as a comment says, so hype for the climate syndicate as an investor

SPEAKER_79: and founder. Fantastic. All right. Beard script. Is it okay to look for offers when raising your very first round for a pre revenue startup? Should you know exactly how much you wish to raise? Great question. I love when a founder says I'm raising a million dollars. I have a plan to deploy it over 24

SPEAKER_94: months. Uh, if we deploy it, we'll go from a hundred thousand in revenue to 800,000 in revenue. And, uh, we'd like 10, we'd like to sell 10% of the company for that million dollars. It basically just makes the conversation move to second or third base. Easy, easy, just easy peasy, easy peasy. So I love that. Um, now some people just say like to go to market, if you have a really strong company, really great pedigree, you could ask people and just not negotiate yourself. Hey, we'd like

SPEAKER_180: you to determine what you think is fair. Um, and I've seen founders do that with me and you know, I, I always push back three or four times to try to get an idea. If, if, if you're not going to give

David Friedberg: me the valuation, just how much money do you want to deploy and what will you achieve after you deploy

SPEAKER_94: that money? So I kind of feel like that's a good discipline question. Um, but great question, two great questions from two of our great Noti members. Let's read the intro. This is a great episode.

David Friedberg: I know this is so good. Hey, maybe leave the questions in this time, Nick, make it a long episode, give the people what they want.