Jason Calacanis: all right everybody uh welcome back to this weekend startups it's another full news monday because the weekend just keeps delivering god we are gonna have to go seven days a week well the sunday was great kept coming so it's a wrap-up show today news wrap-up we're SPEAKER_03: going to talk about the joe rogan spotify fallout it just continues uh and we basically set some SPEAKER_07: odds will joe rogan finish his contract with spotify molly and i play some bets then we cover Jason Calacanis: facebook or you know meta warning about how they're going to have to pull their services SPEAKER_10: out of europe due to privacy regulations a threat that might not be as scary as they think it is SPEAKER_12: and then we cover the gofundme decision uh to pull uh funding for the canadian truckers convoy and uh and get a chance to uh do a 360 dunk with an incredibly perfectly timed layup alley-oop pass from mollywood about amazon buying peloton it's gonna be a great show stick with us SPEAKER_19: this week in startups is brought to you by our crowd helps you invest early in pre-ipo companies alongside professional vcs if you're interested in investing you can join our crowd for free at o-u-r-c-r-o-w-d dot com slash twist lemon dot io need to speed up your product development without draining your budget hire vetted engineers from europe at lemon dot io go to lemon dot io slash twist to get 15 off for the first four weeks and superside ambitious companies need the right design partner in their tech stack one that doesn't sacrifice quality for speed get three thousand dollars or more in credits when you sign up for an annual subscription at superside.com slash twist SPEAKER_08: hey everyone so okay it is a news show today heaven help us we wish this were not the case but it is the case the spotify story just keeps going reports emerged over the weekend uh a video in fact by the singer india ari who has joined the cavalcade of musicians asking for her music to be removed from spotify she posted a video uh essentially a super cut of joe rogan repeatedly using the n-word over the years in his podcast uh over the weekend also spotify just went ahead and disappeared about 70 different episodes of the podcast in which the word was used today i think or late yesterday spotify ceo daniel ak we're recording this on monday of course you're hearing it on monday spotify ceo daniel like apologized to staff over basically how hard this is for everybody the usage everything that is happening but reiterated that spotify does not want to quote silence joe rogan that that would be the Jason Calacanis: wrong response and then on top of that i like don't even want to fall into the trap of calling it pro free speech but the platforms that are labeling themselves pro free speech in this case the video platform rumble came along and offered joe rogan 100 million dollars apparently not believing daniel like when he says we're going to keep him on the platform and said come on over here we're ready to fight alongside you let's freaking go this is by the way he says totally legit wait what is this oh oh SPEAKER_26: that's the letter this is the letter from the ceo of rumble if you're watching the video which you SPEAKER_29: can do on spotify now with their news ah nice one there you go thank you daniel for including us in the video trial which we'll probably be kicked out of because we're going to criticize spotify right now SPEAKER_30: we're going to be banned from spotify i mean this is such a circular story because here we are as a spotify partner talking about it podcasts are taking themselves off i was on a previous episode telling spotify don't break standards i mean it's this whole thing is so convoluted i want to double click on one SPEAKER_07: thing here and it's not the n-word debate let's put that on the side for now um that's not our show that's not exactly what we do here but maybe we'll get into it a little bit later in the show but let's talk about one thing here which i think is um i think intellectually dishonest by daniel eck and i disagree with him on all right so he says i don't believe that silencing joe is the answer we should have clear lines around content and take action when they are crossed but canceling voices SPEAKER_42: is a slippery slope okay sure okay that's like a generic sentence that none of us can kind of disagree with we silence it nobody wants to silence voices and right you know everybody wants to have SPEAKER_07: clear lines although clear lines are really hard because in the case of this word it's as joe rogan said in his like uh apology it was a clear apology mia copa whatever uh he said like his thoughts on this word have changed because it's a unique word in the english language and some people are allowed to use that other people aren't yada yada standards have changed putting all that aside daniel x says we are not the publisher of jre joe rogan experience but perception due to our exclusive license implies otherwise so i am committing to an incremental investment of 100 million for the licensing developing and marketing of music artist stories and audio content from historically marginalized groups so here we go this is the standard you know oh my goodness you're finding me 25 000 i'll donate 25 000 to charity move it is a meaningless move because it's such a large amount of money that you know like it doesn't i kind of find when people do this it's like for somebody with a whatever tens of billions of dollars a company's worth it's kind of like a window dressing kind of thing i don't like these kind of moves um because it's it's trying to divert you from the real issue and the real issue here is but perception due to our exclusive license implies otherwise i have talked many times about what makes a publisher and over the weekend SPEAKER_52: when i was skiing it clicked for me if you pay promote or publish you're a publisher yeah okay i use three p so it's easy this is jason's rule of if you're a publisher this is the test do you promote pay and publish if you do two of those things you're a publisher yeah if you do all three certainly but two or more you're now a publisher so let's go through those is spotify paying joe rogan yes are they promoting joe rogan yes and are they publishing joe rogan not exactly because joe rogan publishes his original audio feeds and they just take them just SPEAKER_57: like they take ours and any other publisher so you can't see me but i'm trying to hold up half a finger SPEAKER_59: for those who are on the audio perfect yeah so it is it's 2.5 i would add one more criteria Jason Calacanis: go ahead sure and this to me is the nail in the coffin of this argument and that is do you choose SPEAKER_64: the content oh right sorry that i messed up my own piece so like not only four p's produce was my SPEAKER_08: other p start the whole produce is a little bit different though produce would imply do you are your producers involved in choosing the content do you edit it yourselves so what spotify has done here say produce yeah good is chosen yes they went out they made an editorial choice yes to give joe rogan pursued him they pursued him a 100 million dollar exclusive license yes to publish Jason Calacanis: his show they made that editorial choice and in attempting to resolve the issue in some way what SPEAKER_08: daniel eck announced was more editorial choices now i have to give full credit to alex uh our friend alex wilholm on the equity podcast for pointing that out this morning but it's like you're trying to SPEAKER_58: counter your editorial choice by making more editorial choices choices yes so that shows that SPEAKER_87: it's just so let me restate my rule because if cbs did that there would be rules so this is why i came SPEAKER_27: with the two or three you you you nailed it god you're so smart if you pay promote or produce not publisher i meant produce produce if you do two of those three you're a publisher so do they produce joe rogan no they do not pick the guests they do not edit it but they do the other two therefore under SPEAKER_30: the new rule for the internet this is the new interweb rule if you do two of those three you are now let's take youtube as an example and let's take our show on youtube yeah do they pay us nope no they pay other people but they don't pay us so no pay do they produce us obviously not and do they SPEAKER_07: promote us no there is an algorithm but that's not promotion in my mind that's just the algorithm showing you things you might like if they did pick like hey we're featuring these people because they're paid partners yes so there are people on youtube who get paid they are promoted there's a group of people who they do promote at youtube right that they have relationships with that when they do like their year-end roundup of the best of youtube that's promotion and they might promote people in promotion slots and then the third one is do they produce and they don't produce so there are some SPEAKER_90: cases on youtube where they are doing two out of three right and so absolutely spotify is absolutely SPEAKER_91: the publisher of jre so stop with that daniel yeah you are wrong you are the publisher of jre you're not the SPEAKER_92: producer but you are the publisher because you have an exclusive you pay and you promote we're done SPEAKER_08: spotify has made multiple editorial decisions with other podcasts that they have not yet made with joe rogan with respect to covet 19 content they have made editorial decisions when they published his catalog originally they made editorial decisions and removed a bunch of shows they have now taken the step of making an editorial decision to remove 70 episodes in which he says the n-word so like there's no Jason Calacanis: question that that argument is dishonest and that and that that is why it's actually dishonest argument SPEAKER_08: that's why this is an ongoing problem for spotify from a business perspective because this is an Jason Calacanis: indefensible argument however it's also representative of a failure of regulation all the way down right the the you the united states government has been sidestepping this exact conversation for 15 years yeah what is a publisher and what like we and again i'm not necessarily arguing for regulation in this case what i'm saying is there aren't clear rules for for this whole massive swath of our economy but there are clear rules for newspapers and for broadcasters right so if you are cbs like let's SPEAKER_10: explain the mechanics of tv for a minute cbs has lots of shows that it airs on cable television that are subject to the rules of the federal communications commission with respect to obscenity and indecency Jason Calacanis: and all of the weird rules nip slip stuff and most of those shows cbs chooses editorial editorially pays for and promotes and does not produce they hire outside production companies exactly like joe rogan's to make tv shows for them that they have commissioned and chosen and they put on the air and as a result cbs is a publisher of those shows even though they were not filmed in cbs studios or or edited by cbs staff so you have a situation where on cable television for example one set of rules applies and you have huge streaming platforms that are commissioning and distributing exclusive content and those rules don't apply at all and that is the situation we find ourselves in and frankly we have never had an example as clear cut as spotify so i think this is like a new test i think the new test that i came SPEAKER_27: up with is the new test and you refined here is the new test and it really should have been obvious to everybody facebook twitter and youtube are doing less than two of the three right you post an update to twitter if it's a video or tick tock or any of these social networks they didn't pay you in most cases almost all cases they didn't promote you in all cases they certainly didn't produce it so zero of three on platforms so let's look at the platforms wordpress squarespace twitter facebook now when those SPEAKER_52: services start sharing revenue with you they now have turned on one of the three lights okay we flipped on the switch if you join the creator program on tick tock if you join the creator program on youtube now they're moving more towards publishing but they're not quite there yet are they they're just SPEAKER_07: sharing revenue they still don't promote you and they still don't produce you sharing revenue i don't think makes you a publisher sharing revenue makes you a platform that shares revenue SPEAKER_52: but now you turn on any of those other two lights now you're in the danger territory SPEAKER_42: the second you promote it in order to get more money for you and the partner you're now making an editorial decision you are a producer or if you say i i think if you in retrospect say we're going to start taking stuff down because it impedes our ability to make money because it creates you know negative whatever i think now you're also starting to get into that so it's like i guess my question to you molly is retroactively turning stuff off is that producing or is it like banning stuff that Jason Calacanis: is against the terms of service i could see both arguments retroactively oh well this is why we have this i think is exactly why your question is exactly why regulators and everybody else have totally dodged the question of platform versus publisher because it's super messy yeah on every level and even as much SPEAKER_08: as we want you know the youtube delineation to be different it's not because they have a maker studio where they actually have people come and use their own production resources which is producing that Jason Calacanis: one's clearly producing facebook has commissioned uh editorial and had makes a ton of editorial decisions about what is or is not on the platform and yet is constantly insisting that it's not a SPEAKER_08: publisher right and it's skated the line what i think makes spotify so and so we've just been like uh you know what it's too messy we're just gonna like i don't know we're gonna let them have this because business and blah blah blah spotify now comes along and is this very clear cut situation where Jason Calacanis: they have paid for where they've done all the piece right and we don't know what to do it's time for SPEAKER_119: another our crowd deal of the week right now you can join our crowds investment in hil applied medical according to the deal memo they are using nobel prize winning technology to bring the most advanced radio therapy treatment to cancer patients hil's world first laser-based system has earned them an agreement with proton international which is the largest proton therapy operator in the us and europe and you can invest at our crowd.com twist right now all over the world companies like hil applied medical are innovating and driving returns for investors our crowd analyzes many of these companies and they select the ones with the greatest growth potential and they bring them to you from personalized medicine to cyber security and now proton therapy a 20 billion dollar total addressable market according to the deal memo in state-of-the-art labs startup garages and anywhere in between our crowd identifies innovators so you can invest when growth potential is greatest and that's early so here's your cta the old call to action if you are an accredited investor you can join our crowd for free at o-u-r-c-r-o-w-d dot com slash twist and then you get to review all those great deal memos that's ourcrowd.com twist to sign up for free now we know what to do here i'll tell you what's going to happen SPEAKER_07: here this heat i'm going to just give a prediction okay this heat ain't stopping no not at all it's going to double down they're going to find even more offensive stuff that comedian joe rogan has said because what we have here is a very very unique situation and i want to get your take on this joe rogan is the most successful podcaster of all time do we agree on that premise yeah that's not fair he's been paid the most he hit number one i mean i don't know what criteria we're using here SPEAKER_42: certainly the most influential he gets the most listens per episode he is the most influential he gets SPEAKER_07: the top guests okay so whatever criteria money listens and guests he's number one yeah fine he's number SPEAKER_52: one and he's doing random acts of journalism he is interviewing presidential candidates in addition to mma fighters or comedians or whatever so his influence is so great that he dwarfs the media who are covering him many of the people in the media who are covering him have podcasts podcasts and they have vibrant podcast business now i don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here but i do think part of what we're seeing here is the media in the media institutions i'm talking new SPEAKER_30: york times or vox or whatever group it is is looking at joe rogan saying this guy's number one and we're SPEAKER_90: in the podcasting business as well yeah i think there's a little bit of jealousy here on the position he's gone to and a little bit of questioning of why is he getting 10 100 times the amount of traffic we're getting for our top podcasts what do you think of this angle to the story that joe rogan is now the most influential interviewer in the world which is an act of journalism what do you think of that SPEAKER_08: what is the end result of what you're asking are you asking is there also a media conspiracy to take SPEAKER_90: down joe rogan not conspiracy i don't think it's a coordinated effort but do you think there is a SPEAKER_27: this guy's competitive with what we do pile on could be happening more on an individual basis let's SPEAKER_129: say where people who are commentators in the space are a little jealous of what he's achieved could be SPEAKER_42: unconscious could be conscious i can't you know it's hard to judge if there's an unconscious bias here SPEAKER_27: but he is an outsider who has beaten all media outlets in this medium i think that there is Jason Calacanis: probably there's without a doubt frustration i think among members of the media about how hard SPEAKER_08: about the the sense that like i mean i used to make this joke all the time way back in 2006 or Jason Calacanis: seven when i was like working hard to write funny jokes for a web show and then people would blow up SPEAKER_135: on youtube for falling off a chair right i was like why am i why am i like researching this and SPEAKER_08: making sure it's correct and toiling and doing all this work and then carefully crafting a joke to deliver it when i could just be falling off my chair and making tons of money so there probably is some sense of just like what the hell and then also people come along and they're like i don't listen to you anymore new york times i listen to joe rogan yes gotta be frustrating and joe rogan doesn't have a team of editors making sure that the things you know he's just like i'm just a comedian i'm just SPEAKER_10: following questions asking questions i don't prepare i don't prepare so of course that feels Jason Calacanis: crappy when you work your entire life yes right like there's no question that that feels crappy yeah but i think then what happens is so sure right there are probably tons of people who have just been waiting for this waiting for they've just been waiting for joe rogan ever since spotify frankly signed him right because that was always like by the way talk about wandering into a mine SPEAKER_08: field yes as soon as spotify signed him they became responsible for all the stuff he says on some level in people's minds and everybody's just been sitting here like waiting waiting waiting he's gonna SPEAKER_143: say something we got to trounce him yes no question but i think that's still very separate from the Jason Calacanis: business decision that spotify has made in the situation they find themselves in now but it SPEAKER_08: definitely means to your point it's not going away at all everybody's in love with the joe rogan story whether they're pro joe or like have been waiting for him to inevitably take a fall okay so here we SPEAKER_30: go now we we start setting some odds we start making some gambling as my influence over poor molly and making her a degenerate gambler like me continues betting on startups now we're gonna get a little sushi back going here god let's go we got to come up with odds for i may need nick to get in here because he's a gambler as well how should we set odds producer nick for and leave this in the show SPEAKER_149: please nick because i want this you giving some this is on the record nick so on the record stuff SPEAKER_30: here oh i'm sorry that's what we don't have to say that your quick time nick nick how many seconds i wasn't prepared for this you weren't prepared for this you can come on air too if you want how should we set a line producer nick for joe rogan not continuing with spotify should we lay odds five to one should we do the number of months and he stays on air because we don't know how long his contract is how would you frame a bet of joe rogan continues with spotify or not in this contract his contract SPEAKER_155: ends early let's say in some way you can't really make it a yes or no because his contract is going SPEAKER_158: to end at some point so it would have to be does he make it to the end of his contract yes or no okay i think it's a good way to frame it another way could be the if you actually think that you know you'd have to know from this point forward what are the amount of months he has left on the deal which SPEAKER_27: we don't know people say it could be three four or five years is what i've heard and what a hundred it was a hundred million a year or a hundred million no it was a hundred million was the total value SPEAKER_42: so if it was three years it was 33 million four it was 25 five it was 20 so we don't actually know that yeah we know that his contract has at least another year on it right i think we'd all agree SPEAKER_160: it has to has to there wouldn't be this much hullabaloo if there wasn't that much time right SPEAKER_11: so i guess the way we could do it is joe rogan completes another year of his contract nick i'm SPEAKER_41: going to ask you to set a line for us could be finish his contract or we could do like a number SPEAKER_158: of months or we could set let's set both lines these lines are they change rapidly like if you watch the line for the election this past or in 2020 you know trump at one point like at like 8 p.m was minus 350 and then two hours later when they found out that philly hadn't reported yet and that was the biggest thing in pennsylvania and that was going to swing the state then biden went to almost even and biden was like plus a ton of money right so these things rapidly change so i'm making these lines based off daniel lak defending rogan yesterday i got yes correct for people right it could change if the employees decide they're going to do a walkout obviously the line would swing the other SPEAKER_173: way but what if a bunch of sponsors say they're not going to advertise totally right but right now all SPEAKER_158: information considered i think rogan leaving not ending 2022 with the spotify deal is like plus 450. so if you bet ten dollars you would win 45. so pretty long odds i think because you think it's very unlikely i think it's relatively unlikely based on every contract or 2022 2022 ending he's going to end 2022 as a spotify employee i think or a spotify partnership exclusive whatever and another reason why is i just dropped this in there but uh nilai patel who is the editor-in-chief at the verge yeah uh he was retweeted by kara swisher he made a really really good point i just added it to the notes but i can bring it up essentially saying spotify has been struggling to make deals with critical hardware partners like amazon google and tesla because they were built they're all building similar streaming services and to combat this spotify said that they needed to find some leverage and one way they did that was in the form of exclusives so they're using rogan as a way to yeah deals with other big tech players so it seems like he's actually weirdly important to them and of course how they're going SPEAKER_97: to be bargo weirdly but if that's the case could he is there an equally strong argument to be made SPEAKER_189: that he is now liability in that effort yeah right and i would say that's equally strong okay give us SPEAKER_188: the line on him finishing his contract too probably like plus 250. i knew you were gonna say plus 250. SPEAKER_158: yeah the year one right that's 2022 he won't finish 2022 at spotify those are longer odds those are long that there's a less likely chance i think of that happening right so that's plus 450 that's 200 points higher you would bet 100 and you would win 250 if he ended his contract before 2025 or now what SPEAKER_192: if i wanted to do the opposite i wanted to bet that he stays to the end of his contract so the odds would SPEAKER_162: be shorter because that's a higher likelihood or that's a lower like so you would bet 250 to get 100. SPEAKER_172: no it would they would cheat because there needs to be a vig so it's like usually you know it might be Chamath Palihapitiya: okay but just for simplicity for simplicity here yeah you probably bet 200 to win 100 something like SPEAKER_27: that right so if you take the other odds you would be betting 200 to win 100 let's say mo let's just do the fit he finishes his contract it's easier so here we go 200 to win 100 that he finishes his contract 100 to win 250 that he doesn't finish his contract okay i am going to bet 200 to win 100 that he does finish his contract i i think he's going to finish his contract i'm going to bet SPEAKER_201: 100 100 to win whatever more that he doesn't finish his contract great and here's why i think Jason Calacanis: it will be his decision because i think that the time i think this is almost we are almost certainly at an inflection point for the thing that my friend and i have been talking about for years SPEAKER_08: which is like any minute now there's going to be the formation of basically a men's network it's just going to be like all the red pills it's going to be all the exiles going to be your your bill SPEAKER_205: o'reilly's and it's called calling by david sachs dude dude dude dude dude dude dude oh my god oh my Jason Calacanis: god i believe that joe rogan will voluntarily leave spotify to lead the formation of men's network so he resigns with spotify's blessing oh no there will be like some messy lawsuits or maybe they just weren't daniel will actually be thrilled right like daniel ak will be thrilled because you know that's what SPEAKER_30: i'm saying is i think daniel's move would be i if it did happen that he resigned see i didn't even consider this if he said i asked to be let out of my contract i won't take the last year's money danielak gave me my blessing we'll still be on spotify which won't be exclusive right that's a SPEAKER_08: oh what an exit ramp for both parties with elon totally like right like there's just gonna be and they'll be like yay the truckers which is god help us our next year here we go like sorry that's SPEAKER_60: that is my bet i'll take a thousand dollars for that that's how gambling works right okay we got SPEAKER_214: our bets on him finishing his contract we i believe he's gonna finish it molly believes um SPEAKER_121: he will not what would you take nick does he finish his contract or not since you set the lines SPEAKER_158: i don't think he will wow i don't think you will i think it's it's uh fascinating the storm is rising it really feels like it's getting like crazy right now well that's how these cancellations things go there's momentum oh is that is that a q anon thing the storm is rising yeah a lot of people SPEAKER_172: are talking about it on twitter and i think it's gonna be like in these big tech companies the SPEAKER_158: employees have so much power and if if all spotify employees are just like hey we're not coming to work until he's off the platform i don't know what they're gonna do you know i think the advertisers SPEAKER_52: hold more power than the employees i think if we and also those distribution partners i think those SPEAKER_08: two actually have more impact that hardware thing i did not know that and i actually think that's a bigger problem for daniel then i would have even then he was already in now i don't know if the SPEAKER_07: hardware partners want to lose spotify so that seems to me like a big risk like you were saying in the pre-show like how frustrated you were that spotify didn't work really well in the dashboard of like a SPEAKER_42: tesla it was like a limited version right uh so i think people love that spotify interface i don't know SPEAKER_232: no they wouldn't bro rogan funny good one chat bro rogan when you're scaling your startup quickly SPEAKER_118: hiring engineers can slow you down like nothing else we all know that well here's some good news for you lemon.io will find you the perfect 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second engineer really fast what a great story so here's your call to action if you could use a full-time or part-time developer to run your projects faster i want you to go to lemon.io slash twist again lemon.io slash twist and you're going to receive a 15 discount for the first four weeks of work with a developer what a great deal he's doing his own SPEAKER_30: comedy club thing with spotify's money like in austin so that's kind of his thing to do his own comedy SPEAKER_42: club support other comedians so if he did like his own comedy central slash joe rogan network and he gave everybody shows because remember i think he inspired a bunch of people like lex friedman i think he inspired to do a show and i think kevin rose inspired tim ferris to do his show so you could see like a tim ferris joe rogan collab to create like a bro network it's gonna happen oh actually if you got lex if you had lex tim ferris joe rogan man that would be the number one podcasting network in SPEAKER_52: the world immediately then you get a little ben shapiro in there oh boy all right let's go to the SPEAKER_241: part that i don't want to talk about anymore facebook and meta oh god is that still going SPEAKER_08: on too jesus back at when facebook uh back when europe passed the gdpr the general data protection rule which is basically their big privacy framework in 2016. so initially the gdpr said you know this is not going to be possible you're not going to be able to transfer data and every company in the world freaked out and the you know united states the department of commerce the eu and the swiss administration all came in and said well maybe we can come up with a loophole and they came up with this idea of the the privacy shield if you can transfer this data super securely then we'll allow it but then in 2020 the european court of justice said no way like first of all there's no way you're going to be able to transfer this data securely second it is ultimately in violation of the gdpr and so facebook and meta have said okay now this is a giant business risk for us and it's under scrutiny Jason Calacanis: so the flip-flopping continues so the flip-flopping continues and meta is now warning shareholders and the sec that they might this is where it just gets sort of dishy and like really is now warning shareholders in the sec that they might just have to stop doing business in the european union SPEAKER_27: we're gonna leave wow holy cow so wait a second they're going to pull an uber lyft kind of move where when they said hey listen we're going to regulate you really hard we're going to cap the number of ride-sharing cars famously uber and lyft took a very aggressive approach which was to go to their user base and say hey email de blasio or whoever and tell them you want to be able to take uber SPEAKER_30: because if not we're just going to take our service and they actually did that in austin they paused the austin service it created like a third-party app called ride-sharing austin or something that tried to sort of compete with uber and lyft and then finally i think they gave in and and this is what uh bradley tusk who is kind of a lawyer lobbyist type who knows how to like manage these SPEAKER_07: relationships he came on the podcast he had worked with uber on this and he had i think you know helped refine this aggressive stance so what we're saying here is and that was episode 1327 if you want SPEAKER_251: to go into the archives family um what when bradley tusk was on so the facebook and instagram and just turn off in the eu for a week yeah that would be wild yeah i mean i think that the question is SPEAKER_08: like is this a giant bluff by facebook and meta if they did turn it off what would happen like or would european users be like that's cool we have tick tock so we're fine yeah uh that would be the SPEAKER_42: i mean can you imagine you wake up to instagram like hey by the way december 31st 2020 will be 2022 SPEAKER_57: but the last day you can use instagram in europe uh if you'd like to contact your legislator click Jason Calacanis: here do we believe so here's what a meta spokesperson said to city am which is like a london publication SPEAKER_08: we have absolutely no desire and no plans to withdraw from europe but the simple reality is that meta and many other businesses organizations and services rely on data transfers between the eus the eu and the u.s in order to operate global services do we believe that meta simply cannot SPEAKER_10: there is just no technical way for them to do business without sending data from the eu to the u.s SPEAKER_52: i think it would be a hassle and what would happen is you'd have to place your ads twice as an ad you know as a marketer you'd have to go into the interface i guess twice it's technically completely possible so i think maybe it's inconvenient for them but completely possible just like other things you know if you want to sell something in the eu and let's say you make a product a physical product in the world there are eu regulations around electricity or chemicals or whatever if you're a manufacturer or product maker you have to pass the united states north america certification to pass the eu certification so i think hardware people have to do this food people have to do that right yeah so yeah well just it sounds crazy that an internet company would have to do it but it's completely possible it doesn't seem like it's that SPEAKER_57: hard work and it seems like them saber rattling if i'm being honest yeah i think so too i think they're Jason Calacanis: just saying i mean they could without it without a doubt honestly i think it's a probably a bigger SPEAKER_08: burden for smaller companies who would have to have a physical infrastructure in both like i'm not questioning that for a company the size of meta this is a difficult proposition right because if you're just serving facebook and instagram to users across europe some of them might be americans some of them might be citizens of some other country that's not a member of the eu some of them might be eu citizens separating out that data is super tricky now you could spin up a physical infrastructure in both places and never share that data but then that would mean that you wouldn't have that data to share with your advertisers and that's the lifeblood of your business like i do sort of get that it would be a little bit tricky i think it's probably harder for small businesses and i'm totally with you that they have the money to do this they just don't want to and they're trying to scare people into thinking you're not going to have any more facebook and i'll be real interested to see you know we talk about i have talked for years and i think i even saw somebody um talking about this with earnings saying like we're really starting to separate out the essential from the the um voluntary right like facebook is a purely voluntary service in some in many ways not completely because a lot of small businesses rely on it right but like do you need instagram no maybe not if amazon said we're gonna leave europe that's different that's different uber or doordash SPEAKER_248: like i can't get from point a to point b i'm stranded at the airport or yeah i can't get an airbnb SPEAKER_42: and i you know i guess i could stay in a hotel but you know it's cross-prohibitive for me i just want to also point out like this is continuing the slide i was just looking at um my stock chart the peak 52 week high uh was 384 for meta they're at 225 now i think they're down from the peak in the past six months like 38 percent like this is becoming existential where i mean is it going to be a peloton like collapse price earnings ratio for uh meta is now down to 16. so as we do our fun with numbers you know as we're apt to do here on this pod yeah it's starting to look like a buy but in terms of separating out data sets let's not be ridiculous that this is impossible for a company with facebook's technical ability apple as but one example operates in china they have their icloud service there they have a local partner all data for chinese customers on their iphones is done with a third party partnership why did apple do that so they don't have to turn over dissidents so they don't have to turn over journalists so they can say we don't do icloud i mean it's called icloud it has all the same functionality but we don't do it it's done by this other third party in this province in china SPEAKER_277: yep 100 we don't talk about apple's chinese business because we love apple but i mean apple is literally SPEAKER_90: apple is probably turned over more dissidents for torture than and used more slave labor than any SPEAKER_08: company maybe with the exception of nike just so we're clear yeah just so we're 100 clear and that but that really gets to two you get to two really important points here one is like sentiment sentiment really matters if you like the product you will defend them as we have seen in our youtube comments Jason Calacanis: all day long um if you don't you probably won't so facebook is in a doubly weak position here one is sentiment like there are plenty of european users who given this challenge might just be like okay SPEAKER_08: peace out you know i'm moving on i'm going to build a website for my small business instead of using Jason Calacanis: facebook and two they're in a financially weak position like you just said like here facebook is in a total stock market slide it's power and influence declining dramatically before our very SPEAKER_08: eyes and this is the moment that they're going to try to make a like users love us stand a power move yeah i mean they're going for a knockout punch now yeah i mean i'm sitting here with my new SPEAKER_286: ship power bob and i'm like that's a bad move bad move i mean it's kind of like you know like if SPEAKER_30: you're going to try to throw a haymaker you know while you're already like beat up a little bit in the like seventh or eighth round of a fight like it's a high risk maneuver and uh this is not the time they're so weak right now this is like they're going to throw an interception like it's a really bad situation for them they're hated nobody's rooting for them and this is where you know i said this for years they should have shared a revenue with content creators and publishers i hate to tell people this but if the new york times and a bunch of other news organizations were printing money with facebook and a bunch of creators were printing money with facebook and they were sharing the SPEAKER_07: wealth and they were protecting people's privacy by letting them pay for a you know ad free collection free there would be some people rooting for that like when youtube has when people challenge youtube the creators are like what are you talking about youtube's great facebook they've never given SPEAKER_12: any money to any partners they've always taken a hundred percent of the money if they had made SPEAKER_52: the same deal with instagrammers that youtube made you take 55 we take 45 think of all the instagram people would be like hey don't mess with instagram it's great they would be the first people talking to the eu regulators or whoever hey man facebook's not that bad i make a living on facebook SPEAKER_119: are you having design problems well you need to check out superside superside is a great alternative to old school expensive agencies and messy talent marketplaces they help you get quality design at scale superside has created an entirely new category which they call cass c-a-a-s internally that's right creative as a service by subscribing to superside you'll get a dedicated design team built specifically for you and access to a platform that makes it easy for you to request designs and have them delivered quickly they are a fully managed service and completely hassle-free they work with brands like amazon salesforce and shopify you've heard of them before i mean these are incredible brands as well as tons of fast growing startups superside only hires the top one percent of designers from around the world and they make sure your team has a full range of capabilities from ad creatives and landing pages super important to motion designers and custom illustrations beautiful and even memes my favorite so here's your call to action go to superside.com twist and get 3 000 or more in credits when you sign up for your annual subscription this is a twist exclusive and valid only for the next three months i want you to go to superside.com twist that's s-u-p-e-r s-i-d-e.com twist to get three thousand dollars in credits when you sign up for that annual plan and the only people facebook could ever bring up and you SPEAKER_42: actually brought it up was like hey small businesses rely on them but those small businesses are spending money with facebook aren't they they're spending money on the ad network so it's kind of like i don't even though spend it somewhere else so i think you have to build a coalition and the coalition for airbnb is the hosts and the fans of that product coalition for door dash the drivers and the people who love to get food same thing with uber lyft and everybody else you have to build a coalition of people who you're in business with so that when you do have problems they fight for you SPEAKER_294: and apple users who are delighted with the products fight for them as well joe rogan's people fighting for SPEAKER_08: him who's fighting for facebook right now hundred percent zero hundred percent and on top of that facebook has quietly behind the scenes and they aren't very loud about it but it's pissed off every advertiser it has ever had like advertisers hate working with facebook because they're so arrogant and their numbers are always wrong and frankly it sometimes seems like they just read about points Jason Calacanis: straight up lie about their metrics so all these so even though facebook and google have the lion share of digital advertisers right now you know that advertisers are like we do sort of wish we had an SPEAKER_08: alternative no one no one is taking their like is gonna put in their flag and be like no is there any SPEAKER_07: path to turning it or if you i mean i think we did this uh on uh last week but if if you if all of a SPEAKER_256: sudden we started a pr firm you know wood and calacanis uh pr services and we just decided to secure the bag behind price marketing agency yeah if you are a crisis agency what would our crisis advice be to SPEAKER_302: zuckerberg at this point i mean i'm sorry but it's new ceo wow mark needs to pull a larry and sergey Jason Calacanis: yeah you're the chief product officer you're the exec you know chairman emeritus president executive SPEAKER_08: executive chair but honestly the only thing that will give people confidence at this point is like a SPEAKER_30: leadership change mark and cheryl oh really i see i thought cheryl taking the top spot might be an interesting thing so like she could bridge it like okay i know what we did and here's how we make it better um and here's the changes okay so then i mean cheryl's like literally complicit in every SPEAKER_08: reason she i mean honestly the architect of a lot of this of the ad network for sure i mean she David Friedberg: architected both ad networks yeah yeah all right it might work for her to stay but not be ceo SPEAKER_30: president she becomes president so and then you bring in a ceo who softer kinder gentler ceo yeah Jason Calacanis: get your get your uh sundar here there you go yeah so she is currently coo so she becomes president and you bring in a new ceo and ceo and you just start moving towards a kinder gentler here's my SPEAKER_07: top two things today we're announcing our creator program our creator program gives 55 of all revenue SPEAKER_42: to the creators who join the program and we have a special fund of 250 million dollars for underrepresented SPEAKER_52: creatives yada yada yada super cynical move i know but i just talked about how cynical those moves are we did something really bad so now we're going to pretend we're going to do something really good over SPEAKER_08: here also like we're going to give joe rogan a hundred million dollars and then we're going to give all these other creators from underrepresented groups like i don't know a million SPEAKER_322: no how does that help a million anyway a hundred million total for joe right that's actually a SPEAKER_57: really good point when you look at it it's like we're going to give this white comedian uh a hundred million dollars and then we're going to give all of the underrepresented black folks in the program SPEAKER_08: the exact same amount because we just want it to look as bad as possible it's a little bit of a SPEAKER_30: bread crumb kind of like here's some crumbs off the edge of the table kind of situation yeah okay so anyway there's my first one and then my second one we now have a program for 49 a year five dollars a month where we will delete all of your data and not track you if you pay for the service and we'll remove all ads so you can have a delightful experience you do those two things you do those two things the entire ship turns around new within with a new ceo the stock rallies 30 percent yeah SPEAKER_07: 10 on the 10 15 on the ceo announcement 10 5 10 on each of the other two you now have an ad free SPEAKER_30: tracking free version that's paid and we'll share what percentage of people use it for regulators to SPEAKER_07: see how effective it is and the second one is listen we're gonna we're gonna share the wealth with news organizations and oh that's the other piece so the creators news organizations so any news SPEAKER_105: organization can put their full stories on the site and we'll get them 55 of the revenue to those pages SPEAKER_308: so if you're the new york times or you're this week in startups or anybody in between the verge SPEAKER_30: you can publish your content like google amp and we will just pay you on those pages and you can SPEAKER_07: display your full story in instagram whatsapp and um facebook and when you see the full story there we'll just ship you 55 of the revenue and link back to you so you get a little seo juice it's all good in the hood it's all good all right gofundme is returning 7.8 million in usd 10 million canadian worth of donations intended for the convoy of canadian truckers protesting canadian vaccine SPEAKER_42: mandates the protest call for called the freedom convoy has been underway since january 29th if you've been living under a rock according to the ottawa police there have been seven people arrested 100 tickets issued 60 criminal investors so far mischief that have state crimes property damage whatever SPEAKER_07: gofundme was created to pay for food fuel and other expenses for the freedom convoy originally gofundme SPEAKER_42: cut off the funding after determined the protest violated the site's terms of service due to unlawful activity uh okay i don't understand that like i thought it was civil disobedience but maybe they said it was inciting violence okay fair enough that would be if they are inciting violence that would be totally valid violence has occurred violence has occurred okay and so i guess we have to make that that that's a jump that's a decision they have to make that's a hard one to make but i guess they made it there were also sightings of not seeing confederate flags at the protest okay not good quote from gofundme medium post following a review of relevant facts and multiple discussions with local law enforcement and city officials the fundraiser is now in violation of our terms of service term eight which prohibits the promotion of violence or harassment has been removed from the platform according to gofundme's first update we will work with organizers to send all remaining funds to credible and established charities chosen chosen by the freedom convoy 2022 organizers and verified by gofundme people went nuts in response to this being accused of fraud by the likes of governor desantis from florida in response to the backlash gofundme decided to refund all the updates the update we issued earlier below enabled all donors to get a refund as outlined in a plan to distribute remaining funds to verify charities selected by freedom convoy organized however due to donor feedback we are simply simplifying the process we will automatically fund all contributions directly which makes sense uh that is the right move uh thoughts on this one i mean you can't do Jason Calacanis: that like you can't say we're canceling this fundraiser and we're redistributing the money to charity SPEAKER_08: because you're not the you're not a government like i think initially gofundme made an emotional Jason Calacanis: decision here in the face of the fact that as this protest got bigger thanks to the support of various people including joe robert yep what it did was start to attract a bunch of january 6 types yes no i mean look it started to attract a bunch of people who have been essentially engaging in an ongoing campaign of harassment and occasionally violence to get what they want right to stop to like protest SPEAKER_08: vaccine mandates and to say that their freedom is paramount above all and so you see info wars flags SPEAKER_350: you get the confederate right you have a bunch of random fringes so gofundme is looking at this and SPEAKER_08: they're like oh good now we're part of a terrorist movement right like the because these tactics are fundamentally terroristic and they're like okay well if this if we were law enforcement we'd be like oh you were raising money in pursuit of this thing that is going to inevitably turn violent and we can Jason Calacanis: seize the funds and do whatever we want that's like what the government would do yes gofundme can't do that right and that was a that was a mistake this is however this is exactly the same question as SPEAKER_08: spotify what do you do when everybody is insane right and everyone is chasing this this money around this like super fired up base yes such a great too yeah they can't do that but the thing is then someone came to their senses and a lawyer was like you can't do that like i get what you're saying but you can't do that and now they're refunding the money and the story's over other than the fact that like it's a other than the fact that the city of ottawa is like under you know like complete state of emergency yeah because this is completely out of freaking hand i tell you i would have had no SPEAKER_41: problem with the january 6 protests if all these folks surrounded you know the capital sat down took SPEAKER_30: out their guitars and saying we shall overcome totally fine sure civil disobedience we believe something was wrong the second you start beating up cops breaking windows you now have opted into violence and committing crimes and you go to jail and then if you decide you're gonna bring a bunch of long rifles and you have a plan to take over the building violently i don't care if you're on the left and you know you're a part of the weather underground in the 60s and those are liberals you know committing violence and crime and killing people and beating up cops that was terrorism or you're on the right it's all the same violence right unacceptable and that's what happened here you know this could have been a non-violent protest which is completely allowable and if people don't want to get the vaccine and die i'm really SPEAKER_07: sad about that but i don't want to hold people down and give them shots either this is literally people SPEAKER_269: that nobody's holding down these truckers and trying to give them shots this is literally like they're SPEAKER_08: saying if you want to come into our our city ottawa which has a 90 vaccination rate and you want to bring this virus with you because you won't get vaccinated for work right like your company and or a country has a right to set its own rules and if you don't want them and you don't like them go get another job SPEAKER_30: move on yeah i see this is the one where it's a jump ball for me i understand for frontline workers SPEAKER_07: i understand pilots and people working on airplanes closed spaces teachers yeah like if you're going to SPEAKER_42: be interfacing with the public that organization has a right for you to require you to get a vaccine SPEAKER_07: i don't know with truckers are they hmm i don't know are they interfacing should they be forced to get it i don't know where do you think the line is where people should be forced to get a vaccine in SPEAKER_42: their jobs to keep their job do you have a feeling on it it's it's like for me it's a if you're publicly facing a teacher healthcare worker and the whole system shuts down if you're an independent SPEAKER_371: contractor working from home no if you're a trucker are you interfacing with that many people i don't SPEAKER_10: know i mean i don't know like why wouldn't any company say i don't care if you work at home if you get it you're a productivity risk for us either you get sick and you miss a bunch of days of work or you SPEAKER_08: get you know you die right like you're an insurance risk like yeah every company has a right to make a risk-based analysis for itself and if a trucker who is unvaccinated gets covid and is out for Jason Calacanis: five days to forever yeah as a result that's a business risk so do they have the right to make SPEAKER_149: that call as a business sure yeah and then i guess mitigating all this is the fact that omicron is not as deadly yada yada and we're kind of at the tail end of this i just can't wait for this to be over we SPEAKER_30: can stop fighting about this like group of people the 20 of people who refuse to get vaccinated SPEAKER_201: who don't just refuse to get vaccinated who refuse to get vaccinated violently yeah okay that's a SPEAKER_379: subsection of the 20 percent there's a subset of the 20 percent yeah and that part is just like David Friedberg: i'm sorry that's indefensible finally should never be condoned if they are in fact being violent i have no sympathy they should be arrested for beating up cops or anybody else period end of story i cannot SPEAKER_269: believe that this is going to be considered a lefty position i think a business has an inalienable right to make decisions that are in the best interest of its business yeah you're a capitalist i SPEAKER_42: mean i think yeah that's a capitalist position is the business and if i'm a company and i want to make SPEAKER_08: money and i want to maximize my productivity i don't want my people getting sick yeah or having an SPEAKER_42: outbreak i mean you're actually you're pretty closely aligned with how a lot of factories are looking at SPEAKER_57: this yeah i was actually watching productivity question it's super freaking mercenary it is pretty mercenary yeah anyway it's we this pandemic's got to be over please lord let this be over because SPEAKER_52: we're literally fighting over oh now i feel like everybody is fighting over the end game now and then it's going to be fighting over the blame game right that's the next phase i predict is like the SPEAKER_42: second half of the year years is going to be like the 9 11 commission it's going to be like the you know russian investigation it's going to be years of like who made a bad decision in the middle of a hundred year pandemic like right kind of hard to make these decisions yeah i mean like the mask band-aids one is like was there any downside to wearing masks when we didn't know how deadly this was and the hospitals were full no no and now is there conversely with omicron like and if the SPEAKER_07: masks are in fact doing nothing i mean we're wearing a mask from the i literally you know i'm up here in the mountains and like nobody's wearing a mask not even from the front desk to the table at the restaurant then taking them off like that whole thing or like on the mountain skiing there's nobody wearing a mask and everybody sitting next to each other on the six person lift no masks and these this is liberal country this is not yeah tennessee or something or texas we're not in texas or florida here liberals have given up on mass mandates it's i mean are you what are you seeing in really in the bay SPEAKER_302: area are people still wearing masks oh they'll be i mean it's a cold situation in the bay area SPEAKER_08: like i'm going to be out here like take your freaking mask off like give it up and it's not going to happen i mean aaron staley in our chat makes a really good point every single leader in the world made a bad decision and a whole series of them and they continue to make the bad and and and now the decisions are emotional and they're political and they're not about right like the the completely obvious statement that a business has a right to make decisions that are in the best Jason Calacanis: interest of its business the end exactly we are so far past that when you can at the snap of a finger SPEAKER_08: whip up you know an insane series of protests with nazi flags out front because you don't want to do that the like the repercussions of this are going to last for years i'll tell you what i found most SPEAKER_409: offensive this would be a nightmare this was the one i thought was the most offensive if you are SPEAKER_45: anti-vax and you want to do a protest and you want to do a sit-in okay fine do your sitting do not SPEAKER_52: bring your nine-year-old and then have them have yourself get arrested and then have your nine-year-old taken by police because you and the two parents have been arrested and there's nobody else to take care of your nine-year-old that you're scarring by bringing them to this goddamn protest did you see SPEAKER_57: that in new york no somebody sent me the video like this is a lot of bad parenting you guys are doing SPEAKER_294: you're arresting eight-year-olds and it's like then somebody's like jake how don't fall for this SPEAKER_52: nonsense the eight-year-old or nine-year-old is being gently taken by two female police officers it's a little girl they're being incredibly compassionate talking to her trying to calm her down putting her in the back of a police car because they have to take responsibility for an eight-year-old who's alone in new york city while these dips parents went into protest not being able to go to the museum without a vax card and it's like literally you brought your eight-year-old or SPEAKER_30: nine-year-old to a protest to be abandoned and scarred for life like not a good move seriously SPEAKER_12: as like one parent to another how dare you if it was a non-violent protest where you're singing kumbaya and we shall overcome on the steps of the museum okay fine you made a parenting decision i SPEAKER_07: might not agree with it but don't get arrested and abandon your child for your own uh it's really gross i'm really upset about that one if it's true i mean who knows what's true somebody can fact check because people are releasing videos on twitter and like i don't know the providence of SPEAKER_42: what's happening in half these videos and then people are like take a position i'm like i'm literally not taking a position on a random viral video without context yeah that being the number one one let's Jason Calacanis: change the subject briefly shall we okay to another startup to another startup peloton which i know totally our companies are getting bigger and bigger and bigger we're gonna have to like bring it back down to startup land however we talked time has no meaning last week i guess about peloton's massive stock drop SPEAKER_08: and whether it had started to potentially become an acquisition target we talked about like who on earth would ever buy them and i of course was like well the design aesthetic would suggest apple no question and then jason was like no no no amazon ah and then sure enough here comes the wall street journal to Jason Calacanis: be like turns out amazon and others are indeed sniffing around peloton of course to potentially of course SPEAKER_04: of course explain again because this was such a great insight explain again why peloton i mean i'm sorry SPEAKER_39: why amazon why amazon okay all right let's roll the clip and hear what i said and then i'll i'll if SPEAKER_251: i'll i'll add some commentary to it three two go because amazon could move these like nobody's SPEAKER_30: business amazon should buy it 400 knockoff though i know but if amazon owned peloton and they made it part of amazon prime your amazon prime membership gets you you don't have to pay the 40 bucks for it and it just makes more people not unsubscribe from prime because it's a sticky product SPEAKER_92: and they don't have health right now so if you want to keep people from unsubscribing so that's SPEAKER_07: it it's really about churn and adding new members yeah so let's take a look if peloton had two or three million members what percentage are amazon prime members let's say 50 60 what's the overlap you know that amazon could quickly figure that out they literally just during due diligence get the email list get the names they have a data scientist to take that and they can do this with an nda as part of the mna process or a third party could do it and they can just tell them we estimate 50 overlap you SPEAKER_437: know what that means that means a million more prime members oh my lord and what it means is then amazon SPEAKER_07: does not need to make a profit off of peloton what's the number one complaint about peloton too expensive SPEAKER_42: right 40 bucks a month 30 bucks a month times 12 months you keep the thing for 50 months you know you're starting to talk about two thousand dollars fifteen hundred dollars in fees well if you bundle SPEAKER_07: that now the amazon prime just gets bigger and bigger or the family plan from apple would be more robust and so i think apple and amazon are the two logical uh folks but i think amazon more logical because they have that supply chain they're making white label products in china they have their we talked about SPEAKER_438: that brand from india what's that slow mo dang it we keep talking about it and i forget the name SPEAKER_439: every time it's the worst name ever solina solomon i don't know staramon it's the staramon brand SPEAKER_423: so limo the worst branding ever but anyway i have those only move items i take them every day SPEAKER_07: yeah and so i think they could produce it cheaper reduce the margin on it say you know what we don't need to make money on this what we need to do is make an impact and get to 10 million members and then keep them so that that's that's one of the things when you watch these acquisitions when they occur somebody in the business development unit has a thesis and the thesis here is more prime members which was the same whole foods concept whole foods became a way to sign people up for amazon prime you ever go to a supermarket modeling they're like do you have a safeway number do you have this number SPEAKER_294: do you have that number write aid whatever they want your phone number same thing that's why they SPEAKER_08: bought amazon that's why they bought uh whole foods yeah i mean honestly and and amazon is already in a hardware and a fulfillment business they would have economies of scale around the supply chain issues they've already said like that's not really a thing for us i mean i think it makes a ton of sense there were some interesting other um potential buyers in that article but i can't remember what they were yeah i don't think they were anyway basically what we're saying is here like that was a cute idea i had about apple buying them but this is why jason's so good at this because amazon makes so much sense SPEAKER_42: i would say i would rank i don't i think it's 60 70 chance if there is a buyer i would say 60 i would Jason Calacanis: say 70 amazon 20 apple 10 other if i was handling it it would legitimately move units like i have a knockoff right i have the mix bike and i'm paying 30 bucks a month for where did you buy that subscription and i bought it well i bought it from their site but if amazon all of a sudden came along it was like we sell pelotons and ps are 20 cheaper and the the membership is rolled in with prime which you already have i would i would actually buy a peloton like there's no need for me to do that i have an exercise bike and i still would be like oh that's great because i don't want SPEAKER_277: to pay for this other thing like genius genius what a great episode uh thanks for watching everybody and we'll see you next time on this week's service bye bye bye hey guys rachel SPEAKER_458: reporting here on february 14th and 15th we'll be hosting founder university intensive this is a two-day program for founders now this course is only open to women founders we'll be hosting a SPEAKER_462: course open to everyone on may 9th and 10th you can apply for both at founder.university and SPEAKER_19: applications for the longer 12-week founder university program are due on february 14th and you can also SPEAKER_463: apply for those at founder.university follow jason and molly on twitter at jason and at molly wood if SPEAKER_458: you're not a boomer and prefer tick tock search for this week in startups to find a fan account at this underscore week underscore in underscore startups and our official account at twi startups but SPEAKER_19: honestly the fan account is way better than ours and if you're still not tired of hearing from jason SPEAKER_462: six days a week you can hear him read his book angel at angel the book dot com slash audible