SPEAKER_00: it was very interesting going to sax's kids birthday party um freeberg and i were there for about two or three hours sac showed up for the last half hour i think i was there for i think SPEAKER_02: i was there for two hours and didn't see sax and then i saw him on my way out the door but he had SPEAKER_06: some youtubers there who were pretty cool yeah papa jake and logan thank you papa jake was great SPEAKER_08: yeah you know they have seven million followers on youtube eat your heart out jacal how many times SPEAKER_09: bigger is papa jake than you business and podcasting on youtube is a new concept uh long form and long SPEAKER_00: form is not what the algorithm is designed for it's obviously designed for short form and people getting to completion so getting to completion on a 90 minute video are we talking about love making again sorry oh god jesus when i say completion i it's not there's we need an hr department at all SPEAKER_28: in yeah i prefer the short form format for that too these are cold open folks hey everybody welcome SPEAKER_31: to another episode of the all in podcast it's episode 56 we've made it past 55 the show the SPEAKER_33: band is still together coming to you every friday night far too late because the rain man obsesses over every edit in the podcast with us again the all in scorsese himself david rain man sax and the queen of quinoa the sultan of science david friedberg is here and with a power sweater SPEAKER_36: that cost no turtleneck turtleneck i'm sorry a power turtleneck that cost more than your mortgage payment this month the dictator himself chamath polyhapitiya i'm jay cal it was a pretty incredible week i think we have to pander to the cryptocurrency crowd because that's just making ratings go through the roof here i am absolutely inspired by what we saw this week with the constitution dow forming in about a week and going from one or two million to 46 million dollars raised through a dow if you don't know what these decentralized autonomous organizations are it's basically analogous to a corporate structure SPEAKER_00: but that's written in code so you can get a group of people together typically in a discord then you create a smart contract they collect in a wallet a bunch of eth or it's typically eth right now and then you get some kind of governance written into the dow where people get voting power they SPEAKER_39: brought this together to bid on one of 13 copies of the original constitution of the united states and SPEAKER_36: it was a very controversial moment last night when 80 percent of the money was raised in the last 48 hours and there was this crazy auction going back and forth with two representatives of sotheby's on the phone it hit 41 million dollars everybody thought that the dow had won which would have mean would have meant that almost 20 000 people who participated in this would then vote on what to do with this 41 million SPEAKER_00: dollar offer coin desk incorrectly uh reported that the dow won and then the dow announced that they had in fact not some other statistics uh their twitter has 36 000 followers the group reported they needed 14 million to participate 30 million to be competitive and 40 million to have a great chance of winning they raised like i think six or seven million while they were on the air you know and the auction had started and the only uh downside to all of this is that there were huge gas fees uh people were spending SPEAKER_36: 30 40 50 bucks to donate 200 which was the average size of these yeah they should have done it on solana SPEAKER_43: all right so here we go talking our own book again now we got somebody's gonna clip this out there's a lot of pumping dump here we go samath what are you gonna do with your copy of the constitution SPEAKER_45: you know what's so funny when are you gonna auction it back to the day when are you gonna burn it and SPEAKER_48: make an nft out of it so it's it's funny uh i did buy something at these auctions uh yesterday's SPEAKER_49: quite unique uh i will i will not comment on what it was but was it that turtleneck SPEAKER_54: no but uh banksy oh no no no no no no but uh i did so but i i watched these auctions closely i guess SPEAKER_56: is what i'm trying to say and i was surprised that the u.s constitution for sold so little you know for a basically like the magna carta of the best startup that's ever been created well but there's 13 of SPEAKER_10: them right so on a market cap basis on a market cap basis you gotta multiply by 13. yeah great 13 SPEAKER_07: times 40 is still one of the originals it was the printing after the original was signed we have a 20 SPEAKER_61: we've created a 22 trillion dollar a year startup that keeps compounding by 45 a year i would have SPEAKER_54: thought these things would be worth you know a couple hundred million each well there's a lot of SPEAKER_08: there's a lot of us memorabilia but yeah i mean but what i don't understand it means the u.s SPEAKER_65: constitution david is not as it's not worth as much as it used to be that's well you know you got SPEAKER_10: other you got you got the declaration yeah there's a lot of documents you got the declaration of independence you got you know the gettysburg address there's time a dozen the tea party memo SPEAKER_54: i actually think citizens united technically guys the citizens united if it was written not one time in one document uh by the supreme court that would be worth much more than 40 million because it's basically invalidated most of the constitution well here's one of the interesting things that happened SPEAKER_76: here no david wait david acknowledge that what i just said is true i don't even understand what SPEAKER_54: you just said but i just said if you had printed the citizens united verdict from the supreme court on a piece of paper that would be worth more than 40 million dollars it was it was like democracy 2.0 SPEAKER_60: is what you're saying i don't understand why people are getting so swept up in this thing it's kind of SPEAKER_36: my name either me neither that's what you guys are missing is this is a a critical moment in the history of cryptocurrencies because the first three major use cases of cryptocurrency were kind of you had money transfer which is not as good as paypal or venmo or many other solutions no jason i think then you had store of value hold on let me finish store value which is like who cares is playing ways to store value and then nfts got interesting but these dows are absolutely game-changing the ability to SPEAKER_87: have 47 million dollars show up and be prepared to be deployed in 48 hours is that's not what he's saying you ever hear of an icos were illegal and they've been banned and people are being how is down any different i mean because dows have governance gals have governance and it's a programmable government it's a programmable corporate entity it is huge these things if these SPEAKER_90: things transfer ownership interest they will be regulated like securities of course that is a very important point and in this particular model the idea was it would all be kind of part of a non-profit and it would not be kind of donations in fact but there were donations and so as soon as these dows which they should and it's an incredibly powerful tool if it does actually become a security instrument then it changes everything and it is going to be that my whole thing is like it's one thing outside the u.s first right and then it'll be of course so ex-us crypto investments that are going to drive this and SPEAKER_100: that's why the u.s is going to be left behind here's what you're missing these dows are pushing the SPEAKER_33: envelope in the same way airbnb and uber did in terms of you know bending the rules about ride sharing or renting your extra room these dows are kind of breaking securities laws they were telling people were buying the constitution people who donated thought they were buying part of it we're not SPEAKER_100: we're not missing the point so okay but here's the thing if they bend the rules like this what they showed to the sec is that there is a huge appetite for people to quickly form groups of capital at low SPEAKER_33: dollar amounts to do something important or interesting in the world and americans now have a taste of that they're going to continue to have a taste of it and i think it's just SPEAKER_100: agree it's going to force the accreditation laws to change i disagree i think that what it showed is SPEAKER_54: that this is yet another explanation of fractionalized ownership that demand existed well before dows totally it's it exists today it'll exist tomorrow a dow was just yet another on-ramp but much like most fractional ownerships are terrible financial trades for crappy assets so was this so said differently if you're going to spend the time to open a robin hood or e-trade account it still matters whether you buy a share of lycos or a share of google right okay and so whether you do a dow or whether you have an llc to me it's irrelevant the underlying asset didn't make any sense had zero chance in my opinion of any meaningful appreciation and so if you really want to make something work and if you want to prove the dow then i would have hoped that they would have actually asked a few smart people hey guys people who buy art people who know crypto what are some assets that i should own SPEAKER_108: because if this thing does appreciate i wonder you'll do more to prove the questions that you just SPEAKER_74: beat them out on the so obviously the value is greater than what they doubt thought it was jason you're speaking like an accredited investor this is non-accredited investors who are doing this SPEAKER_77: i know and that that unsophistication was clear the stupidest thing you can do if you enter an auction SPEAKER_54: okay is to declare how you're going to be an underbidder so like it's basically saying hey guys you Chamath Palihapitiya: know here's my top tick and i'm willing to be and i can and so now you force these guys to be the SPEAKER_113: underbidder at a dollar over there okay that's fine that's a mechanical issue sacks what do you SPEAKER_08: right well i wonder where do you stand on this i i wonder if the reason why they chose this particular type of asset is because it's collectible and therefore it's explicitly excluded from the securities laws so basically you know that maybe maybe they're limited in terms of what they can go after because they don't want to be a security but until but but if that's the case then it does limit i think the applicability of dals right because what you want is is to create corporations that are programmable that you can have shareholder votes through the tokens yeah things like that and you know basically a digital version of what they do analog in the real world with you know share certificates shareholder meetings and stuff like that that nobody ever attends yeah that nobody nobody ever attends these shoulder meetings and you know i get these notices of votes that are to be held SPEAKER_100: nobody ever fills yeah no one fills that stuff out and people have super share super voting and so you feel like you have no say but in this case you do have a say and they're going to SPEAKER_33: do assets like imagine somebody had 10 000 acres of rainforest or a national potential national park and all of a sudden you pop up a dow and if the sec says you know what 500 or less you can bet SPEAKER_36: your money however you want hold on let me finish and they take that 500 and you get a million people to put 500 in which is completely conceivable somebody could buy 500 million dollars worth of national SPEAKER_87: forest and say i'm going to make this into a public trust to protect the environment this is on the brink of changing the world icos you could have done the exact same thing before no governance they had no governance that was missing it was for the benefit hold on icos were for the benefit of the scumbags who did those griffs and ran away with the money this is an organization with a predetermined governance structure this is like creating a new country or a new format for an llc that's what you're SPEAKER_92: missing okay are you done yes what you're missing you're painting the optimistic scenario of what SPEAKER_90: these things could do and you are correct but what's always happened in the history of humanity is these scenarios have resolved to people figuring out ways to scam other people to make money sure sure while SPEAKER_123: this one looks altruistic just like there are no it's just like you gotta let me finish without SPEAKER_90: interrupting thank you but just like you know this looks like a great altruistic action we're gonna go out and buy the uss constitution us constitution the next deal will end up being some shitty art piece that's worth 100 grand as chamath points out they'll buy it for 10 million everyone will lose their ass and the next 500 will look the same and that's why we have securities regulators and security laws because in the past when these sorts of structures that they weren't digitally governed and all this sort of stuff and people would go around and they would put together pools of money from other people and promise them the world and then they would turn around and steal their money and walk away we created securities regulators that could oversee and not have independent governance but have distributed governance across a regulatory system to make sure that this doesn't happen and that's the slippery slope of where this goes i'll say one more thing about the structure of this particular dow which i know can be resolved but it creates a problem in that everyone is betting or investing a fixed dollar amount without knowing how much equity they're getting and so when you say hey i'm gonna put in 500 and there's currently 10 million dollars or let's say there's ten thousand dollars in this thing it's like hey okay i've got five percent ownership in this thing if the next guy shows up and puts in ten thousand dollars you now have two and a half percent ownership in this thing and you've inflated the value of the thing you're buying and that's effectively what happened in the structure of this particular dow where the more money people put in the more they were paying and the less they were owning and you couldn't adjust that the correct structure in the future for people that do care about equity and ownership will be i want to buy one percent and i'm willing to pay a max of 500 to buy that one percent and with that rule engine which i know can be built into dows people can then structure what they're willing to bid and how much they're willing to participate in and the dow as a whole can resolve what it's willing to pay to go buy an asset and everyone can feel like they know what they're getting as they get into these things and then the third problem with this particular dow as we saw and i know it's kind of the first big one like this was the obvious point that these guys were showing the world how much they were about to go bid on this asset and if you take 46 million dollars and you divide it by 1.13 or which is you know remember there's a 13 buyer's premium on this asset they showed everyone what they're going to pay and of course they lost at a dollar over there they were the under bidder i'll say SPEAKER_65: something else the only fractionalized asset that has ever been proven to appreciate reliably are stocks every other fractionalized asset where you take something and then you divvy it up SPEAKER_54: generally has been a trash burger you need to either own the whole thing yourself or if you're going to own it with a bunch of other people the only thing that's reliable are equities now that's just a historical artifact for how money has been made so i appreciate jason what you're saying which is i think actually you care about the structure because i think it has huge implications to people pursuing wealth creation for themselves for people participating in private markets but i do think that you're overblowing this one example because i don't think this showed any of that i think that this showed how unreliable and and useless ethereum is as a transactional layer for these things you know the fact that these poor people now have money stuck in a dow that they can't get out of because it would the gas fees would negate their contribution so that didn't these are all the bumps in the road one second please you gotta hold on it didn't prove governance because as david said we had this inflationary outcome where all of a sudden i didn't know the equity that i owned the transparency worked against them SPEAKER_73: because you're bidding on an asset where you were clear about the threshold max price you could pay SPEAKER_54: so you had no pricing power and you had no uh opacity in in your bidding strategy so so i i think that this was a pr lark and in fact they said it started out as a joke and it took on a head of steam and so i think they felt like they had to execute what i would say is there are going to be some really SPEAKER_131: amazing examples of dow's this proved none of those things that the amazing ones will prove in my opinion SPEAKER_90: and this will invite regulatory scrutiny faster than it will keep it away right you will see you know more of these scenarios where people get screwed out of money like they did in this particular case and i know a lot of everyone that participated in this now i know that there's altruistic reasons Chamath Palihapitiya: who do they sue who do they sue the people who do they sue who do they go after now that they lost SPEAKER_90: the 200 that they contributed yeah i mean there's there's there's no structure and i think that's part of the regulatory you know how do they get the money back i can respond who's the person who's SPEAKER_141: the person that like you know what honestly if that dow had called me i could have actually bid for SPEAKER_65: them and actually won that thing for half the price you know what i mean so you got anything SPEAKER_144: you want to chime in no i mean well i don't know closing yeah why don't you go for it all right SPEAKER_33: number one you're all speaking like a bunch of rich accredited investors uh we need to think about people who do not uh get to participate and what i see in my day job is people go to an equity crowd funding site it's too arduous to allow non-accredited investors to invest it takes months and it's tons of paperwork so then what happens is the best deal flow which goes to the people who are on this podcast who are already rich we get to sweep up all the best deals because people who are founders and who have opportunities in corporations do not bother doing equity crowdfunding because the sec in their wisdom to try to protect people and they have good intent to your point friedberg has made it so arduous and painful for people that they then don't do it the founders i'm talking about this then keeps people down and when we were all poor we got to spend our money gambling or doing whatever we want with it but we all would have wanted to have when we were non-accredited the ability to place a bet on a startup and y'all are forgetting that and what's going to happen all of what you're saying all of what you're saying chamath in terms of the problems here are absolutely SPEAKER_36: accurate and valid and those are what you need you need to identify through projects like this the gas fees are a problem so people can move this to solana you need to find out that they don't know how to do bidding and maybe they shouldn't say how much has been raised so that they can come in and bid more intelligently and maybe they do need to pick a better target but this is 200 per person SPEAKER_33: there you guys are acting like these people are going to lose their shirts we agree with you i agree with SPEAKER_92: you i agree with me i agree a thousand percent i'm a free markets guy i would love for there to be no regulation and everyone will come in and the problem is society won't let that happen and that's the point i'm trying to make it's other societies have other societies if you're in the uk if you're SPEAKER_33: in australia you can go gamble and you can go bet on startups there are different accreditation laws we have antiquated ones the united states the united states regulatory regime will be invoked because SPEAKER_90: people will lose money and individuals will raise their hand and say i put money into a dow that i lost my ass on and enough thousands of people do that and then elizabeth warren and aoc will get on their you know their horse and they'll say let's let's fix this problem bernie sandals will say this is unfair the billionaires are taking the money from people and so i agree with you we should let people take risk we should let people lose money we should drop all the regulatory burden my point is really that i think structurally what's going to happen is there are going to be more of these things that are going to show up that will rip people off and that will heighten regulatory interest and people will come along and they'll start to clamp down on this stuff and that's that's SPEAKER_65: my point okay i also think this example has nothing to do with what you're talking about i think what SPEAKER_54: you're talking about jcal is laudable and we should all want that because i think that the broader number of people that get to participate in the wealth creation in tech the better but there are different ways of doing that i don't think we have to run full force and embrace the dow as the only way that that happens and i think that structurally the the democ the democratic norms inside of a dow in many ways make it much harder to govern inside a regulatory framework and it does set up a very binary decision by the sec and us regulators which unfortunately they're not going to go and be supportive of because the binary decision to support them would effectively negate their oversight that's SPEAKER_153: right yeah they got jobs to keep too they have jobs to keep and i mean i just i think it's a cynical SPEAKER_00: and accurate prediction that they will fight it but what you may not be aware of is that there is in the startup act from years ago they did allow equity crowdfunding they put a lot of throttling on it and now they're going to let you get accredited through taking a course or like kind of having a SPEAKER_39: driver's license or a gun permit so it is conceivable that the next time a dow happens and they're SPEAKER_54: trying to buy but can you stop conflating these things together you know we've had iterations in the crowdfunding rules you're just trying to tag this with the dow can give you just separate it could wait hold on a second can i just ask a question can you please just describe and acknowledge that the crowdfunding rules have iteratively evolved in the absence of jobs yes okay so just SPEAKER_161: separate the two they're not the same thing they are two sides of the same coin because no they're not SPEAKER_34: dow's allow a global participation in this and the capital can be formed instantly this was done in days that's what's so powerful about it it cost tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars SPEAKER_54: to do an equity crowdfunding this cost nothing because it was for a in an ethereal superficial asset with a name that people recognized let me hold on a second now let me replace the u.s constitution with i don't know jason you just sent a deal a day ago what was the name of it let's just SPEAKER_73: call it acme.com sure now what are people supposed to do it's not a known asset they are not known founders there may be turbulent issues inside the company that are still being hammered out what are these people supposed to do how are they intelligent small bet place a small met do some research vote SPEAKER_36: on it do collective research in a discord you're looking you have a bunch of researchers working for you you defended the gme you have a team your team does research and they're smart people and they get SPEAKER_33: paid very well you were praising the coverage that wall street bets did on gme on this podcast 40 SPEAKER_65: episodes ago you were saying how it was incredible their research was because they were analyzing public companies who were governed by securities law they can't do that with a private company yes because SPEAKER_73: there are no rules that govern disclosure gamestop had very strict disclosure rules because they were public that was what allowed wall street bets to understand what was going on under the hood of SPEAKER_54: gamestop it was the disclosure of the funds that the secs force you to make that allowed people to understand the long and the short book that was building against it if if that was in the private markets that data is not obligated to be provided in the in the wild wall street bets would have had no idea so i think you're actually proving the opposite of what you intend which is it's the regulatory framework that allowed the retail gme position to happen go ahead david and then uh yeah SPEAKER_08: can i translate what jacal saying i think what jacal is saying is we need to create some space here for innovation so that entrepreneurs can work out the kings of these dals so that one day jacal can run a syndicate on a blockchain and fundraise that way isn't that what you're saying jacal or anybody i mean SPEAKER_87: here's what i'll say you know when we do a syndicate amongst accredited investors in your book here in a weird way no no no i didn't mention the syndicate i didn't mention the syndicate.com SPEAKER_08: once you saw icos as competitors to to your syndicates but now you're all on the doubt train SPEAKER_36: icos i um i thought were too big so i think you could solve this problem by looking at the bet SPEAKER_100: size that people are allowed to make so you can just say hey the upper limit is 5k so now you've basically taken the individual cratering well because if you wanted to create a regulatory environment David Sacks: well because it would no i think that makes sense you create a de minimis exception so that i see SPEAKER_101: guys the first one worth and one percent of another's okay so make it a percent of net worth SPEAKER_73: no the first thing principle of portfolio construction is you need to be concentrated SPEAKER_54: in the things you know and you need to stay away from the things you don't if you cap the upside on the amount you can invest what are people supposed to do peanut butter around 50 bets and you know SPEAKER_73: what will happen jason most of those will be losers because the mortality rate in startups SPEAKER_61: is super high and they'll end up with basically nothing how do they do in vegas how do they do SPEAKER_185: betting about how to invest i mean i think what we're saying is that is that i mean this is where SPEAKER_08: i actually agree is that the regulators should carve out enough room so that innovation could continue around this concept of dallas because who knows what they could become one day and we shouldn't we shouldn't kill this thing hold on we we we haven't killed anything because nothing SPEAKER_73: exists and there are no rules about dallas the the regulators haven't said anything i think we all SPEAKER_54: agree that crowdfunding rules should get much more expansive that makes sense and with that private companies should disclose more that makes sense right we all agree with that so that you can have more disclosure and public available data so jason to your point communities can get into a discord like today if you said hey guys let's go and analyze a late stage investment in stripe what do you do Chamath Palihapitiya: blather on about it and just talk at each other there are no there are no disclosures no but let's start answer this question so now yeah so now are you supposed to are you supposed to enter carta or some other third party platform and buy it at 120 billion how do you underwrite that SPEAKER_36: very simple very simple in the startup dow concept we're talking about here you would do exactly what angel investors do which is say hey okay we had let's say this constitution dow was to invest in startups okay 20 000 people put 200 in each we have a 40 million dollar pool okay we're all going to SPEAKER_39: submit ideas and then we're going to ask and invite those founders to come pitch the dow on a zoom and we'll all vote on which ones we like best and instead of you know a venture capital firm getting SPEAKER_36: access to this now those 20 000 people could say you know what we're going to make 20 uh half million dollar bets and then we're going to pour the 30 million into the winners of that and that is just what i do for a living or any other angel investor early stage investor does you invite founders come and pitch you and you place an intelligent bet just like people bet on the knicks or sadly on the SPEAKER_33: jets and lose their money all the time and it i like david's idea of saying hey maybe for the next two years we'll have a dow exception where you can raise you know from a thousand up to five thousand people up to ten million dollars and you just have to file that you're not a felon and we have some basic framework to experiment with this because you could buy you know a building that was going to be torn down like some movie theater for a community you could do non-profit stuff there's all kinds of beautiful things you could do with this instant capital formation and government structure that SPEAKER_192: is programmable okay it does relate to capital formation in the startup ecosystem here's what i'll SPEAKER_56: say um you made a great point about uber and lyft pushing the boundaries and forcing the regulators SPEAKER_193: to react yes you know why that happened it's because uber and lyft worked yes and it was successful SPEAKER_54: and this value was not successful and so maybe if it is there's an on-ramp but i would say that the energy is better served in not focusing on a pr lark and probably just focusing on trying to improve the crowdfunding laws writ large which are already on the books and can be iterated upon versus an entire new body of regulation where nobody even has any idea what a starting point should be SPEAKER_199: i think it's gonna be i think it'd be very hard to get get those crowdfunding laws expanded SPEAKER_69: with the under the current regime it's sort of a minor miracle that they even got what they got SPEAKER_184: several years ago right wasn't that but well it happened under obama when the job was in 2008 yes the jobs was in 2008 when the market crashed we said nobody's starting companies we're screwed SPEAKER_00: here we need to get the economy going again so we're just going to allow more capital formation and so the 99 rule for llc's went to 250 and they just kind of loosen things a little bit and now they're the mandate is the sec has to have a certification test for people to do private market investing and also people who work at vc firms right we have people who work for us who are not accredited they don't get to participate but they get an exception if they work at a venture firm SPEAKER_10: etc so it's probably simultaneously true that this thing was massively overhyped um while also being the SPEAKER_08: case that it's a worthwhile experiment that may lead to you know useful innovation in the future what i SPEAKER_00: always look at when i see new technologies doing something is i just imagine if it 10x and what that would look like and if it worked and then i just 10x it one more time so what we're going to see i predict is this 40 million dollar dow will turn into a 400 million one in the next two years and then a 4 billion one in the next 10 and people are going to do something extraordinary they're going to do something so otherworldly changing what if a million people or 10 million people around the globe decided they were going to put money in to do a solar farm or something that would help society SPEAKER_90: you can already do that jacal i mean that's like like a manager someone's got to manage it SPEAKER_08: jacal's fantasizing about how big a syndicate is going to be yeah my syndicate is too large right SPEAKER_211: now i can't accommodate everybody and it's also because it's okay it could get bigger you could SPEAKER_00: right well no the problem is you can only have 250 people in it that's the problem yeah come on yeah we beat it to death okay anyway i'm obsessed with it fentanyl deaths in the u.s are reaching a crisis point up is that really what we're talking about i mean we talked about it in the chat SPEAKER_185: are you deliberately trying to like avoid the biggest news today of the the biggest SPEAKER_219: i get it we're gonna that's just a weird transition i'm just going straight down through the docket but SPEAKER_180: if you want to jump the fence okay well rittenhouse was found not guilty of all charges like it happened SPEAKER_10: within half an hour of us beginning to record this podcast i don't know how i'm trying to keep the SPEAKER_87: friedberg ratio up we had a nice strong emotional moment from friedberg he obviously is going to have SPEAKER_36: something to say about fentanyl and science but okay he's going to walk off the show now to talk when you start talking about it i'm not going to walk off the show you did last week you walked off you walked off and when you got a beverage you left for like i had to go i had to go pee all right SPEAKER_00: fine i mean come on to be during politics uh kyle rittenhouse usually when i take my break yeah exactly okay and a third of the audience kyle rittenhouse found not guilty of all charges a 12 SPEAKER_39: person jury in the kyle rittenhouse trial reached the decision uh after over 26 hours of deliberation he shot three people uh he killed two of them and he was found not guilty he was 17 at the time of the shooting he was charged with killing the two men and a third uh during the protests in kenosha wisconsin in august of 2020. this was during the protests uh over the police shooting of jacob blake he claims he traveled from illinois with an ar-15 style rifle to help protect businesses and provide SPEAKER_08: first aid he he didn't he did not cross state lines with the rifle that's one of the many inaccuracies that have been reported by the media over and over again because his dad lived there i SPEAKER_10: guess he was in his dad lived in kenosha i think he went to school in kenosha he worked in kenosha SPEAKER_08: you gotta understand like this is there are a few minutes apart where from his mother's house and they got and he never he never carried the gun across state lines the gun was bought from by a friend who was 18 who could possess it and it was kept at his house which is in kenosha got it he was apparently in kenosha earlier that day um and you know cleaning up graffiti at the school and checking out the downtown and then you know obviously when he went out that night then he got the gun but he SPEAKER_234: didn't transport it across state lines so that's i think one of the multiple what do you think what SPEAKER_204: is your most important insight into this case and what it represents for american society and uh the SPEAKER_08: justice system sex well i think the case has become a little bit of a rorschach test of how you see america i mean there's clearly a a group of people in the i'd say the main dominated the mainstream media announced percolated down to celebrities and figures from lebron james to to um i'm spacing but there's a lot of like celebrities who've come out putting forward this view that america that this trial somehow is um that that calgary now some white supremacists and that this not guilty verdict is an example of white supremacy in america somehow that became the narrative and um so that i think it's become i think there's like couple levels to it one is the trial itself and what you think about the legal case i don't think that is that complicated or interesting you have here that the state was required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that rittenhouse did not act reasonably in self-defense SPEAKER_240: when three violent attackers came charging towards him that was i think a pretty tough case to make SPEAKER_242: given one of them had a gun poll too i mean this was right and so all of them had long criminal SPEAKER_240: histories the first one who attacked him was daring him to told said that he was going to kill rittenhouse the second one was bashing him over the head with a skateboard the third one was rushing towards him when rittenhouse was on the ground had a gun trained on him looked like he was going to bring it to his head kind of execution style i mean all these i think cases if you saw the video from i mean from the first time it seemed pretty clear that he had a strong claim of self-defense so SPEAKER_08: i don't think the case itself was that legally interesting the question is why it got blown up into being this like huge thing and it's really because the media wanted this so badly to be to feed into this narrative of somehow that this is you know a white supremacist violent attacker who was a vigilante who crossed state lines with this ar-15 to go seek out trouble um to confront people at the protest and you know that case that that narrative just completely fell apart at the trial you know it's he didn't cross state lines for you know in that way he didn't you know with the gun when he went to this protest he went there it's interesting i mean he was a cadet an emt cadet he was kind of in this like junior firefighter program i'm not saying that he showed good judgment i think it was poor judgment for him to try and insert himself into that situation but i don't think he went there to kill anyone or to get into a confrontation he brought a first date get for you know for better or worse he thought he was going to help people and so any event the the story really is about the media constructing this narrative that fell apart so quickly as soon as all the facts SPEAKER_13: came out freeberg jamal yeah i think the i read that there was um an analysis of the media SPEAKER_56: media and how they tried to portray this and that i think i'll build on what david said which is SPEAKER_54: was really concerning like the there was they really wanted this to be a white kid who killed SPEAKER_56: black people during a blm protest which was as it turned out the furthest from the truth i'll just tell you my experience when i first saw it that's what i thought i had read and i'll be really honest with you initially i was incredibly biased and my i had a violent reaction inside me of anger towards this kid because my thought was my god this white kid showed up at a black lives matter rally and killed SPEAKER_54: you know three of of my brothers you know like literally that's how i'm feeling i was so angry because they didn't really give the facts there was an example where in germany it got so out of hand SPEAKER_56: that the articles were written that kyle rittenhouse had actually killed three black men or two black men and and i think that that's very dangerous because we need to have the truth and the facts so we can really figure out what's going on so that we can address what's broken we can hold people SPEAKER_54: accountable and then we can move forward together and heal it but this like is the opposite of healing it just froths people up to make a lot of judgments with misinformation and i think that that's very unfair i didn't to be honest with you after i saw the facts i stopped paying attention to this case because i literally exhaled i would have been much more hurt and i would have probably paid more SPEAKER_131: attention if this wasn't white on white violence quite honestly right right and then i think people i SPEAKER_10: think we've heard from a lot of people over when written house's testimony kind of went viral and SPEAKER_08: started getting reported on there were a lot of people out there who were surprised to learn that all the victims were white that this was an example of white on white violence because it had been portrayed by the media as some sort of racial episode and um and it wasn't and it shows how the media is fueling this polarization and rage in our society by concocting these narratives which SPEAKER_54: aren't true it's really that that i think is the dangerous thing i don't i didn't follow the case to know whether this kid was right or wrong but i do think if the media uses these opportunities to not just tell the facts and then race baits people on both of the left and the right and gets them frothed up they're doing a real disservice to america because i think it takes good people and it puts them in a state like me for a while at the beginning where i'm i was really angry and i didn't know how i felt and that's and i'm a lucid person you know 99.999 percent yeah and so it just goes to show you how dangerous this stuff is when they can take a narrative and run with it and then there's no accountability for it um and we really have to stop and check ourselves it just speaks to this ongoing fact pattern where the media is at a point where they are at a very much a low point in their trustworthiness their ability to fact check their ability to stick to the truth um i think it's been undone just this past week you know i think elon even tweeted out like you know he in exasperation he said where can i find like thoughtful news right he was asking twitter like what websites and and and the the question wasn't that bad but if you read the answers it was really sad nobody had a good answer you know one person was like oh there's a browser extension that will show you how you know how much lying is happening inside the article and i thought to myself my god like there are browser extensions like a lyometer you know like this is insanity that that in 2021 that's what we are faced with which is very smart people all of us everybody listening normal people just you know out on the street we can all come to the right conclusion when given the facts and we're not given the facts SPEAKER_08: anymore jake how do you think we're missing something here because um you you i know you you thought that this whole uh rittenhouse thing was crazy right which it was but are we missing something SPEAKER_00: in your view i think uh first off violent protests and violence is immoral and all of these protests whether it's blm on the left on the right they should all be non-violent there's a reason why martin luther king and gandhi you know said that's the rules if you want to come to the protest you have to be non-violent and then i think the rhetoric that was created during the trump era and that he exacerbated and that he caused uh from a lot of his policies and the way he spoke as the leader of the free world and our country then polarized things i blame him for a lot of that and if you SPEAKER_39: put a bunch of people who are on the far extremes into a situation like this and then you insert guns and you insert young people who have not developed their frontal lobes who do not have long-term thinking which a 17 year old does not your long-term freeberg will back me up on this in terms of science long-term thinking is something that develops in humans into their early 20s and so young people with guns in a violent situation with trump on tv during this time both good people on both sides whatever you know the borders all that stuff that he was stirring the pot on all of that eventually resolves to somebody's gonna get killed whether it's on january 6 or it's a blm protest and that is why he had such a failure of leadership while he was so disgusting and horrible and loathsome because he was taking all of this heat and rhetoric up up up and the person who winds up suffering in this are these stupid kids and they're really dumb parents and mother who allow them to go to a protest and she could have stopped him with a gun somebody needs to stop these kids from going to a protest with a gun and i think there's a very difficult question here that can be asked and it probably is SPEAKER_33: true i think that it was an open and shut case david that i mean i saw the video as well chamath the SPEAKER_39: guy puts a gun on him what are you going to do you've got a gun this guy's pointing a gun at you whoever fires first survives it is self-defense and that's kind of undeniable i i think but if SPEAKER_54: he had i would hope that the number of people that really focus on this case look at the innumerable number of cases of black and brown people that have been killed the ahmaud arbery trial is going on right now yes i'm sorry but i've seen one article in ahmaud arbery for every 50 about kyle rittenhouse yeah i just really hope ahmaud arbery gets his fair trial and that was straight up sorry and let me say again brianna taylor not a single thing has still been done okay so i'm not that sympathetic to all of this talk right now because there are a lot of black and brown men and women who have been SPEAKER_73: killed in this country yes where none of you guys care as much oh i care and that was exactly where SPEAKER_00: i was about to get to the question i was about to ask you chamal is if kyle rittenhouse had been a SPEAKER_39: black man and he had shot those three people what would the outcome of this trial have been would it have been the same justice system and i i don't think that anybody can answer that question and say it would have been fair justice i don't think it would have been i think the chance would SPEAKER_206: be very low it makes a black man in this situation would have been treated the same just you saying SPEAKER_268: it makes me want to cry okay it would not well i didn't say for that reason but i it is the truth SPEAKER_00: and i think that's what you know we in this country race is something that is our biggest weak David Sacks: point and we need to get well leadership to work on this hypothetical injustice we don't know because that's a hypothetical that we can't know the answer to right now and you're ignoring the justice the SPEAKER_08: injustice that's right in front of your face which is that this was a political prosecution from the beginning fueled by a media narrative that was completely bogus this is why i think david is right SPEAKER_54: and we have to go to this root cause issue that we can all fix yeah you know we can't we we shouldn't debate these hypotheticals because they're hurtful like even now like you see me i'm emotional i can't think straight so let's get the hypothetical off the table because david you're right it's a SPEAKER_08: hypothetical i mean this case probably should never this case should never have been broad i mean as soon as you see the video if you look up the definition of self-defense okay you you just have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger and then you're allowed to use force and you know rittenhouse was running away these guys were attacking him they were chasing after him they had a gun trained on him they were bashing him on the head with a skateboard i don't know how any SPEAKER_240: prosecutor looks at this and says we need to prosecute this so the case should never have been brought and then the media fuels this thing no but this is what i'm saying that's the thing SPEAKER_54: that we can all change which is our reaction to that media portrayal the media can be held accountable SPEAKER_206: for how they lied but how well people are don't trust them and they're tuning them out and they're SPEAKER_281: going and finding their own answer i mean this has been my point like i think we all get tuned up to SPEAKER_90: what the media quote unquote is and isn't saying i think that's like yesteryear's news i mean those those guys have lost credibility you can see it in all the peer research and all the gallup research SPEAKER_98: that um what used to be called and it's still by a lot of people called the mainstream media is no longer mainstream and it's become kind of outskirt and where people are finding their um their sources of information is direct from the source from people that they know to be reliable trustworthy speakers of the truth and speakers of facts and they're getting them direct through social media platforms and other systems of self-publication and that the idea of having centralized media systems that get to have their own editorial and narrative over whatever facts quote they may be kind of gathering and presenting to us that's an old school way of doing things and i don't think we have to worry about it too much anymore whether or not individuals will resolve to truth seeking or emotion seeking is the big question for the 21st century because as we've seen the media that the things that we do click on are the things that we already believe and that confirm our bias and that create an emotional incentive versus the things that may be not what we believe and not what we want to hear but may actually be factual and that's the big kind of challenging question here i think it's less about these evil media people and it's more about where individuals going to make SPEAKER_08: choices yeah i mean i'd say alternative media voices have never been more important and you know you can get a lot of them on substack people like glenn greenwald matt taibbi antonio garcia martinez call in the call-in app call and barry weiss i mean they all have our podcast they all had very good coverage of this by the way i couldn't help notice that the same week that this rittenhouse narrative collapsed the whole steel dossier narrative collapsed okay you had and i don't want to get too political and drag it back to the trump thing but you had you know john durham who's a special prosecutor unraveling this whole phony fake steel dossier with multiple indictments and you now have SPEAKER_240: retractions by the washington post and other major publications and that whole narrative that fueled like an entire year of media coverage is completely collapsing and it's just another example of you know the media running with these narratives that turn out to be completely i hate to use the word fake but i mean it is i mean it's things in the dossier were fake but paul manafort's conviction again i SPEAKER_90: i would encourage everyone to stop using the term the media or even the term mainstream media and just recognize that there are specific outlets that are on their way down content companies are dying yeah these are content companies that need ratings they used to be the monopoly and they're no longer and you know they're like yesteryear's news and it's just um you know it's like complaining about you know whatever pick any industry that's been disrupted but they are and will be further disrupted by kind of direct to source fact gathering the big ultimate question is what are consumers going to choose um and that's the thing that scares me the most to be honest i think they can go either way SPEAKER_283: you can either find better truth seeking or you can find better emotion more emotion seeking and that SPEAKER_08: that's going to cause more polarization and more ugly well look it's it's happening right now you're right that the let's call it the corporate media the big media corporations their prestige and esteem and the eyes of american people have no and their credibility has never been lower it's gone new york times and cnn absolutely gone and people should be questioning them and stop listening to them and you have to diversify your information diet and you've got to be subscribed to some alternative journalists on places like substack but here's the thing that concerns me you know you've got the media narrative being dictated by msnbc and then it trickles down to lebron james and chelsea handler SPEAKER_240: sorry that was the name that i forgot earlier who were they were perpetuating this white supremacist narrative around kyle rittenhouse by the way there was they looked at his phone his text messages everything there is no connection there's no proof whatsoever of a connection between him and white supremacy was completely made up by the media and yet these major figures in our culture who have this outsized impact were tweeting about this and so the problem is you know like people like us diversify our information diet but there are large parts of the country that are just receiving this information and it gets basically passed down from the media to SPEAKER_304: hollywood to the culture yeah and it's from tucker callson to scott baio to the pillow guy SPEAKER_240: it is fueling tremendous devices and polarization in our culture and i would say that you know jason brought up trump and he was a polarizing figure but i don't think he's the root cause of this polarization i think he is a reaction to it i think he is a manifestation of it he's a manifestation of it and ultimately the root cause is the complete deterioration and collapse of journalistic standards in the media in the major mainstream uh corporate media i'll disagree with you and i've made this point SPEAKER_90: in the past which is sex i don't know if it you make it sound and other people make it sound like in a directed editorial initiative to take things in a direction and i think that the reaction process is really about what do consumers want to consume what they choose to consume is what they sell more of and what they produce more of and that's the cycle that's driving this and you know that doesn't mean that these folks are not complicit or not making good kind of ethical decisions that could actually be argued either way but at the end of the day they're businesses that are selling content and if consumers want content of one form they're going to choose that form okay look i i think you SPEAKER_08: have a point that once a publication goes in a certain direction starts getting subscribers there's some positive reinforcement there that has them keep pushing that direction that being said i don't think this is commercial in nature primarily i think what's going on is fundamentally ideological SPEAKER_248: you saw for example the new york times they ran out barry weiss i've seen it i've seen multiple SPEAKER_311: no no you're wrong sex when the new york times did this they realized fox picked a side msnbc SPEAKER_39: side and they they benefited from that by picking a side in the trump era so the new york times picked a side they went msnbc side and they got rid of the right because the right people drove away the anti-trump subscription so i think freeberg's right on this one i will say another thing to build on what you were saying before sacks about the media's responsibility here we also have to think about the the cable news media's responsibility when they put these protests on wall to wall and they SPEAKER_33: send people there that then inspires people to go there and you know when you do this wall to our coverage across five networks and you obsess over something people are going to obsess over it and they see people out there riding and people model other people's behavior and i think they need to think like how much coverage do we exactly have to give right you know even now even now SPEAKER_08: they're bringing out the national guard in anticipation of possibly riots and protests in which then could induce it well in reaction no i don't know if it's going to induce it but but but but in reaction to this verdict in the written house trial they're bringing out the troops to basically quell any you know riot before it gets started but why would that riot even happen because the people SPEAKER_240: have been fed this narrative that is completely bogus and in that sense the media has been incredibly irresponsible and they're playing with fire they really are i'll say it again and we've fallen into SPEAKER_56: this same trap look how much time we've just spent talking about cloud written house i mentioned ahmad SPEAKER_100: arbory and we've just glossed over it is his trial being it's happening right no no but is it on video SPEAKER_36: because that is another major issue here is when the trials are on video these trials they should SPEAKER_58: never do tv again on these trials just never again i mean reporters in the courtroom but do not put it SPEAKER_39: on tv like veranos is not allowing uh video in the courtroom and it's not getting covered to this SPEAKER_316: extent and i think the video in the courtroom does drive this it makes it a circus breaking news SPEAKER_206: citadel ceo ken griffin outbid a group of crypto investors for a copy of the u.s constitution according to the wall street journal so oh my god we knew somebody was trolling before this but SPEAKER_240: now oh my god exactly i mean he was the central villain basically in that whole robin hood fiasco for payment for order flow and now he outbid the crypto crowd he is going to be enemy number one SPEAKER_65: basically there is no more sophisticated market participant than ken griffin and on a silver platter this group of people unfortunately showed them their strategy and showed them exactly how to become the price is right you put one dollar on top of their bed you know what ken griffin knows SPEAKER_90: ken griffin knows that now this is an object of interest that people are basically willing to pay anything for bingo he's gonna buy it now and in one year he'll sell it for twice as much it's a SPEAKER_322: valuable asset but by the way i want to make a point on this i disagree by the way he's uh he's a buyer SPEAKER_90: he is not a seller he's gonna hold okay but look markets don't work with this much transparency SPEAKER_98: markets only work when people have different information than other people that are SPEAKER_331: participating in the market no no no no no no no no no no if everyone's everything that everyone SPEAKER_90: else was going to do same data but if everyone knew what everyone else different opinions but if everyone knew everyone else's opinion on what something is worth the market doesn't work and that's the problem yeah so here's what i value an asset at and now if you know that you know how to play against me in the market and i will that's what i said yeah exactly and one thing one thing i'll take note of that i that i kind of realized yesterday when i was thinking about this which is this like transparency in markets leads to this inflationary problem why do you think everything that the government buys inflates because everyone already knows what the government is going to spend on that thing when the government enters into a market like health care or education or defense the amount that they're going to spend is published in a bill and congress says here's your authorized budget here's how much you're going to spend so there is no natural market force that says a bid and an ask what are you willing to pay and is there a walk away price there is no walk away price when the government is is told to go spend some amount of money and as a result the price of everything inflates to that walk away to that price to that budget can i build on that it's and that's and by the way that that's that's in my opinion based on everything i've looked at the primary reason for the increase in education costs because the government funds all the student loans the increase in health care the increase in defense all of it is because the government is the customer and they tell the person that's servicing them up front they tell the market what they're willing to pay and so the market just inflates to that amount and it's uh it's it's really the reason why the way that we budget things in the government as opposed to saying look this is the roi metric or this is the ir metric you need to be shooting for with this government spending it's all based on a fixed dollar amount of a budget that says here's how much you should go spend well look it's it's as i SPEAKER_54: said it's it's actually worse than that because then the procurement process is is not is the furthest thing from a free market where you essentially have these licensed people that are allowed to provide services and so if you actually have the key critical input to making SPEAKER_73: something possible you have to get bundled in through contractors and subcontractors and general SPEAKER_54: contractors who each take their five and ten percent and then that that's what you would that's SPEAKER_279: when you have like you know and and their hourly costs all ballooned just a little bit just a little bit just a little bit and suddenly the balloon cost of everything matches exactly the budget so SPEAKER_54: the perfect example of this is the space program there was a there was a there was a rant by bernie sanders yesterday basically saying how could we have allowed jeff bezos mr bezos and mr musk to basically take over our national space program we need to take a space program we need to take it SPEAKER_176: back and then somebody hold on and then somebody and then somebody thought i'll just give me the SPEAKER_73: transcript somebody thoughtfully went back and actually looked because again as david said everything is transparently published they went back and they actually counted how much money nasa spent in SPEAKER_54: like the last seven or eight years and the number was 360 odd billion dollars yeah and then they counted how much money uh spacex had spent and it was you know if you counted revenue between seven and eleven SPEAKER_73: billion totally totally so you have this incredible disparity which speaks to this this guy's senile SPEAKER_240: after the space shuttle was retired nasa didn't even have a way to get to space until spacex had the SPEAKER_77: rockets i mean and think about how many people died on the space guys what bernie is saying which is SPEAKER_54: what's i think scary to me is if you take the difference between 360 billion and seven so 300 and you know 53 billion dollars and divided by the number of people in the united states you're basically talking about a thousand person thousand dollars a person would you and i sit around a table and give SPEAKER_73: bernie sanders a thousand dollars out of our own pocket i don't know to go and basically implement of uh a half-assed space program no it's unbelievable i'd rather give elon musk 10 cents which or one cent which is the equivalent alternative or this raises a really serious issue which is who is the SPEAKER_08: better capital allocator of private society private markets or the government and let me give you an example so today the house is voting out that reconciliation bill they've got it they're spending 2.1 trillion this is one example does one example that caught my eye is they've got 2.5 billion dollars going to tree equity whatever that is i'm sorry tree tree equity tree equity this is like tree SPEAKER_240: equity i think it might mean that like some communities i think it means that some some communities have more trees than others they got to rectify that i don't know i mean this is like the SPEAKER_08: jump the shark moment for the word equity because i think now everything is equity but but you know what what struck me about this 2.5 billion dollar number okay is that like craft ventures which i've been doing for the last four years we've raised and will be deploying a total of about 2 billion over call it five years into hundreds of startups that you know will pave the way SPEAKER_240: for the next generation of the economy so 2 billion versus two and a half billion as one line item that's just a footnote that's an asterisk in this bill i mean what is the better capital allocation decision and what people have to understand is you know all this money that gets spent gets sucked out SPEAKER_08: of the private economy somehow it either you know comes from taxes or gets added to the the national debt SPEAKER_240: but either way it comes out of the private economy and resources that could be allocated to the next generation of of innovative companies squandering the money like that on all these programs that no one even knows what they do uh when we're almost 30 trillion in debt is just unbelievable okay the one SPEAKER_361: percent are going to be going to space and taking away the moon from the other 99 percent SPEAKER_363: here roll the clip unbelievably this bill would provide and authorize some 10 billion dollars in taxpayer money to jeff bezos the second wealthiest person in america for his space race with elan musk the wealthiest person in america this is beyond laughable and i will be introducing an amendment to strike this provision frankly it is not acceptable it's not an issue that we have discussed terribly much but it is not acceptable that the two wealthiest people in this country mr musk and mr bezos take control of our space efforts to return to the moon and maybe even the extraordinary accomplishment of getting to the moon this is not something for two billionaires to be directing this is something for SPEAKER_10: the american people to be determining yeah all the people have to be able to go to the moon before SPEAKER_152: two people can go to the moon is that the idea yeah if there was a go to the moon dow it would get more absolutely a good callback look at you with the callbacks you're learning how to entertain SPEAKER_90: the audience can you imagine people would just plow money into a go to the moon dow and give it all to elon musk it'd be so more people would do that than would vote to support the senate bill SPEAKER_254: additionally i would like to report that starlink does not work at my lake house and amazon prime takes three to four days at my beach house on the cape and that these two companies are oppressing the three SPEAKER_373: percent of the top three percent which i am not part of the one percent and some people don't have SPEAKER_377: enough trees and we need trees in my community there's only small trees and we want the redwoods from san francisco why do they or the hippies get the redwoods that are much taller do you guys remember SPEAKER_54: uh one of our very earliest pods i made a statement which is equity is this danger word that the progressive left uses to steal power yes that we should feel unsafe we should always want equality but not equity because equity is zero sum right you know what cap table once you give somebody else equity it's dilutive to everybody else but equality is infinite you can have unbounded equality yes and when i hear these guys talk about this stuff it's so scary the second thing is i'm a little confused by what bernie's saying because on the one hand he wants to cancel the american government's effective you know support of these programs on the other hand he wants us to take back the responsibility for it but i think he must realize that it would cost 50 times more or a hundred times more he's he's not SPEAKER_90: he's not he's not spending sensitive in case you haven't noticed i also think this is like virtue SPEAKER_00: signaling like he was attacking bezos about like minimum wage and then bezos came over the top and SPEAKER_36: like doubled it and then gave people college education that was bernie sanders platform for president was like give people free college and give people like a better 15 minimum wage bezos has SPEAKER_33: done more for bernie's platform than anybody he should be thanking he should be telling people all SPEAKER_259: companies should be asking like amazon no no but also actually to your point can i build on that SPEAKER_73: yeah amazon is now doing more to actually unwind duopolies and monopolies in markets than the government and the ftc is you know absolutely see this thing that amazon is now doing in the uk with SPEAKER_54: visa where they've basically shut visa off and people are speculating now that it's a step in this direction of amazon you know in amazon domestically in the united states they just did this big deal with a firm and so they are looking at and they there's a rumor that they may switch the amazon credit card off of visa rails and put them on mastercard rails but this is another example jason to your point of like you know bernie and the left progressive left would probably rail against the duopoly practices of visa and mastercard they can't get anything done jeff bezos has actually done more now presses a button and has done more now here's another one to build on yours SPEAKER_34: who's doing i mean bernie sanders cares about global warming it's like one of his key issues who's donated more to burn to global warning than jeff bezos nobody nobody's doing a hundred thousand electric vehicles for his delivery fleet jeff bezos jeff bezos took bernie sanders platform that he failed to get into office on and he made it amazon's platform here's a third example nick you tweeted this SPEAKER_54: out nick or you can find this thing that i tweeted out but it was a little meme and it was a it was um it was basically um toby mcguire and kristen dust right there's a meme upside down quit no they're looking at each other and basically the joke is like you know every time you protested at you know uh to shut down a nuclear plant uh the resulting effect 40 years later was another SPEAKER_56: hundred megatons of co2 was put into the air and it just goes to yet again another example of we virtue signal nuclear reactors and nuclear power we go and we get them all shut down it turned out that we ingested or we uh we uh put out as a result an enormous amount of more co2 than had to be put and then and now who's helping to step in and solve it another private citizen bill gates look SPEAKER_08: if it weren't for these private companies we couldn't even get astronauts to space anymore impossible i mean like the government has actually lost the capacity to do that impossible it would SPEAKER_165: it would have been impossible and who are we up against for space i mean china not just china SPEAKER_08: just china it's such a dichotomy between and this is like a recurring theme of the show between what the private sector and specifically and and and not like the fortune 500 not those old stodgy companies that are in the process of being disrupted but what the sort of entrepreneurial economy is able to accomplish versus like how stultified and calcified and incompetent the SPEAKER_39: governments become i mean to your point freeberg i think sam altman uh led this the fusion energy startup helium like 500 million dollar round i mean by the time these nitwits you know in these political office figure these things out we're gonna have fusion reactors aren't we SPEAKER_09: is that real science is that coming close what do you think rubert i mean bill gates just did this uh SPEAKER_281: what is it called terra power uh announcement this week um he's got a company that he's been funding for years and they're building a 500 megawatt um uh fusion plant in um uh wyoming i think yeah in SPEAKER_98: wyoming yes in wyoming and he got 2 billion from the government and 2 billion uh that was funded by the company and its shareholders which i think is majority owned by bill gates but it certainly uh feels and seems to me i mean look this one like we've said a lot of these infrastructure deals these big infrastructure deals for things like power and next-gen manufacturing and whatnot you know could use the could benefit from the boost of you know government subsidies or you know government shared costs to get these things off the ground over time as you get scale and reproducibility of them the cost per unit comes way way way way down um and so you know it seems to be the case that there are enough of these programs i think i know of at least half a dozen nuclear power companies that are you know in advanced stages of doing um you know first installation design right now and so it seems like this is going to be a reality i think it would be an incredible um boom to uh to clean energy in the united states and globally if we can get more of these built i mean what was the staff china's building 150 nuclear power plants they've commissioned 150 nuclear power plants i mean it's a no-brainer that that's what we need um in the 21st century it's SPEAKER_342: the best renewable source uh very small footprint very reliable it can run 24 7 uh doesn't depend on some you know sun or wind or what have you so you can plug it into a grid and so the government SPEAKER_00: literally does not need to get involved in this aside from writing a check and chopping it up 50 50 SPEAKER_90: split the pot with well i think there's an important role that the government can and should play here which is you know if we want to talk about what infrastructure this country needs i've said SPEAKER_98: it on the last couple of shows we don't need yesteryear's infrastructure we don't need last centuries infrastructure new bridges and you know toll bridges or whatever nonsense is uh you know going to get inflated as a result of this recent infrastructure but what we need is next-gen infrastructure and not charging stations because the free market's already there doing that um and you know not internet because the free market's already there giving everyone internet SPEAKER_90: we see a thousand examples of that what we need is the stuff that the free market cannot afford to fund and stand up like next-gen nuclear power stations like biomanufacturing like large-scale on-demand 3d printing systems these are the sorts of infrastructure programs that the united states and our workforce could benefit from government subsidies to help the private force the private markets get stood up and as these things get stood up and the flywheel gets going and cash starts getting generated they can sell fund and they can grow and they can install more of these and the costs come down for the next one the things where the government is the only customer the only person buying the cost will only go up on over time whereas the things that the private market is building the cost will go down over time and in some of these cases where there's a big kind of hurdle to get over the first build or the first build cycle you know the government has an important role to play i think and so you know look i mean it's clearly not going to happen with this current infrastructure bill there's a few nuggets in there that might be useful and helpful SPEAKER_98: but generally speaking you're right i mean over time we want the cost of things to come down not go up and so we need the private market to play a critical role in being the majority driver SPEAKER_413: you know of these kind of systems all right seems like a good place to end pete davidson is now SPEAKER_56: dating kim kardashian how jealous are you tomorrow i'm not jealous talking about a great a great i am i am shocked that pete davidson has dated some of the most incredibly famous popular women oh so you are SPEAKER_13: jealous okay well i'm a little curious i gotta say i'm a little curious i mean if you put a picture pete i mean there's got to be something happening there let's just put it out there he's got the kevorka i'm gonna send you a link to an article i don't know what an article is i'm googling remember that SPEAKER_10: from seinfeld where um kramer was like you know dating all these beautiful women and it's because SPEAKER_45: he explained he had the kevorka he's got a better finishing move yeah this is an article that went SPEAKER_90: viral this week emily ratakowski how do you pronounce her name yeah breaks down breaks down why women find pete davidson so attractive and so this was like you know i saw it all over twitter this week but it was all SPEAKER_428: about you know and what is the answer just give me the headlines i don't know it's some he's got SPEAKER_90: uh super charming he's vulnerable he's lovely his fingernail polish is awesome he looks good he has a good relationship with his mom i mean i just think he comes across as a good guy might be the SPEAKER_43: appeal um also they want to take care of him i think because he's got like his dad you guys are David Friedberg: missing a more subtle not obvious i don't know what you're talking about do explain maybe you could SPEAKER_438: expand i'm just guessing it's a family show it's a family show oh my god uh no i think i want to take SPEAKER_439: care of him that's what i heard from a woman said they want to like rock on him and take care of him SPEAKER_00: right yeah i mean also kim kardashian i i think you know she just got the gen z i think she was probably going the way of paris hilton like maybe aging out of her uh you know uh celebrity and now she went kanye kind of gen x right and now she's going down to gen z she's got a whole new i mean i hate to be cynical about it but i am i i also you know SPEAKER_49: i'm going to take so much flack for saying this but um i was a little short donda but i've SPEAKER_447: listened to donda now a couple times and my god is it good it's pretty good i mean SPEAKER_193: kanye west is one of legitimately one of the most incredible artists of of all time i mean SPEAKER_54: the way i agree with that the music the beats it's outrageous i think if you give donda like SPEAKER_448: two or three shots it's really registration college dropout and 808 and heartbreaks i SPEAKER_59: amazing my dark twisted fantasy was probably one of the best albums ever created well see that's SPEAKER_00: the thing is i think ridiculous with his later work like i didn't get into my beautiful dark twister fantasy until i had listened to it 10 times and then i was like okay i get it amazing SPEAKER_451: yeah and i feel like they're so accessible like drawback registration but donda is pretty incredible SPEAKER_453: i mean it's right now david sax is like what are you guys talking about i haven't listened to any of this david do you know he's like is that like paul anka dan is like yeah wow sax do you listen to SPEAKER_458: music actually this is what's your favorite artist what's your favorite band like if we found like if we SPEAKER_54: listen to like your like your workout tracks so like on your like on on barry manilow like apple SPEAKER_326: like what are you listening to like spotify like what are you talking callson no music i don't listen SPEAKER_234: to music when i work out the only time when i listen the only time i really listen to music is when i'm SPEAKER_54: like in a car or on a plane or whatever but do you have music for example like download it on your phone SPEAKER_234: like if he said pull out your phone huh yeah i do give a couple names here yeah top three yeah honestly it's gonna be recent hits because i just download what my kids tell me to download SPEAKER_463: i understand just give me a couple albums that you've downloaded okay so hold on where's um SPEAKER_234: recently added okay so it looks to me like i recently added khalid yes okay good uh there's a gaga SPEAKER_08: song uh kid laroi and miley cyrus okay kid laroi and justin bieber great doja cat my kids love she's SPEAKER_468: great she's great tick tock queen yeah see my kids keep me current you know you think i'm like she's SPEAKER_469: great here's what i'm doing for my kids this is my new parenting strategy i was let they love listening SPEAKER_00: to the 80s playlist on spotify but now i was like what who are like great seminal artists so i have them doing tom petty david bowie talking heads and bob marley and i get the whole greatest hits album and i SPEAKER_39: explain to them every song and they're like totally getting into it because so basically they actually SPEAKER_344: know what great music is you're being self-indulgent you're focused on yourself and you're trying to SPEAKER_34: make them a loser no i'm trying to get them to understand what actually really you want your kids to SPEAKER_54: walk into school and when somebody else like hey do you like doja cat they're like no but have you SPEAKER_281: listened to tom petty and the heartbreakers i've been doing that i've been playing my kids my uh favorite artists and they and he's become their favorite artist apex twin you guys don't know who he is SPEAKER_90: yeah yeah yeah what about what about a great album called the james album richard d james album is probably one of the best albums of all time and i play it my kids go freaking nuts for it now and they ask for it non-stop and i'm like oh my god i love you you're my kids it's the best i'm trying to SPEAKER_234: get my kids into the my favorite movies and that's just too hard because movies were everybody SPEAKER_475: they were so too slow about this yeah they haven't started to watch movies it's hard they want to SPEAKER_33: watch it yeah no they can't watch movies they're too slow they can't watch movies they only watch a marvel movie they can't even watch the original star wars or raiders of the lost arc totally anything SPEAKER_281: where the scene doesn't cut every one and a half seconds they can't watch it's crazy i was like SPEAKER_211: raiders of the lost ark you're gonna love this so like this is so boring i'm like raiders of the lost ark temple of doom are boring they're like crazy terrible but then i remember watching SPEAKER_179: like character development they they want to cut the first act have you guys watched and watch jaws SPEAKER_90: would be like unwatchable but i remember as a kid watching she loved it did you guys ever watch like amc and you watch the old school movies of the 30s and 40s they are impossible to watch like they are SPEAKER_281: so so it's like watching a play and that was you know it's like gotten more and more kind of um short form as we've kind of aged but you know that's like oh no what happened okay sadditch SPEAKER_488: aki aki like a biscuit and aki just came and took it from you don't take a biscuit aki you SPEAKER_487: eat a dog food you don't need a biscuit bad aki you know those biscuits are cashmere they're really SPEAKER_289: expensive all right i'm gonna i'm gonna go get my booster shot i'll see you guys later all right everybody this has been another exciting amazing episode of the all-in podcast for SPEAKER_39: i'm gonna get search your cookies for the dictator hi nat chamath palihapiti and the SPEAKER_315: sultan of science david freeberg we'll see you all next time sexy poo have a wonderful time with SPEAKER_185: suarez he came by last night i'm hosting uh miami mayor francis suarez tonight we're doing a cocktail SPEAKER_08: reception fundraiser for him hung out with him and we got huge turnout i mean i tweeted this thing and we're gonna have i think at least 60 people at the reception at least 20 people for dinner SPEAKER_496: you're letting randos in your house from twitter security oh they have to pay five dimes yeah yeah SPEAKER_498: yeah they have to pay but also like we kind of check everybody out one of your enemies one of your SPEAKER_42: enemies will pay five dimes just to get in your house i think basically like buzzfeed paid to get SPEAKER_08: in there i'd be careful we have to we have to know who they are we vet them background there's a lot of people i mean look if we want to let everybody in there are at least 100 people who replied to my tweet saying i can't dm you but i want to go and open your dms for a day oh you can do that yeah SPEAKER_259: francis came by yesterday with his team he was in top form he looks great he's excited about the the next term all right we'll see you all next time bye bye SPEAKER_22: we'll let your winners SPEAKER_515: david sacks SPEAKER_518: we need to get mercies are