SPEAKER_00: okay everybody we got a great show for you today my pal jeff lawson the ceo of twilio is joining the program for his fourth one two three fourth appearance and his first one since 2019 we talk about building as a public company growing twilio to a 60 billion dollar market cap their segment acquisition and we talk about twilio's new product twilio engage which they just announced today thank you for giving us an exclusive but first producer rachel and i are going to talk about twist meetups and how you can get involved we're doing meetups in new york chicago boston we're going to do them in tokyo london everywhere and they're going really well and we want you involved then i'm going to talk about oculus i did a tweet a lot of people got feelings a lot of people got upset it happens sometimes when i tweet and i tweeted hey people SPEAKER_01: don't use their oculuses after like the first week or two why well i got a lot of interesting uh answers SPEAKER_03: and i have some theories we're going to get to it all today on an amazing episode of this week in SPEAKER_04: startups thanks for tuning in everybody this week in startups is brought to you by marketer hire need expert marketing fast hire vetted marketing specialists this week from the company that's already used by netflix all birds and more get 500 off your first hire at marketerhire.com twist novo free business banking if your bank charges outrageous fees you need a bank account that's built for small business get your free business banking account in just 10 minutes at banknovo.com twist and our crowd helps you invest early in pre-ipo companies alongside professional vcs if you're interested in investing you can join our crowd for free at oh you are c-r-o-w-d.com twist SPEAKER_07: all right want to give you all an update on the this week in startups meetups that we will be having in cities all over the world with me to talk about it is the manager of our twist meetups her name is SPEAKER_10: producer rachel welcome back to the program producer rachel hi how are you i am about to bring up the page SPEAKER_07: for this week in startups too so everybody can see yes so if you go to this week in startups.com meetups you can see all of our meetups and you can become a founder organizer we're only having these events for founders right now and uh some members of our syndicate angel investors we're keeping this very focused on founders and investors because that's the core of the business eventually we'll let other people in uh but we are doing a series of missions for the organizers why are we doing those well what i found in the past is sometimes when you do these kind of tedx kind of events the wrong people want to get involved the people who want to get involved sometimes are selfish people who are looking to use SPEAKER_13: it as a marketing channel well i have no interest in that i don't want a bunch of you know sales people using this to sell sas software recruiting services or accounting or illegal not that there's anything wrong with those professions but that's not what the show is about and i don't want people and running the advertising on the show or using this to market that's not the point it's for SPEAKER_14: founders by founders and for investors by investors to start so we put people on three missions rachel SPEAKER_10: explain what the three missions are so the three missions starting off with meetup one meetup one is all about getting comfortable it'll be about five to ten founders and everyone's going to meet up pay their own way have a meal get a coffee some people have actually even decided to go to areas like parks especially if that's something that you think would be a little bit safer SPEAKER_18: and another place decided i believe it was chicago to do a public library and i thought that was really SPEAKER_03: cool moving on that's mission one and uh if you go to the website you'll see uh we can zoom in on this SPEAKER_07: that los angeles did their first mission and new york completed their first mission london is uh on the books tokyo is on the books for their first mission october 28th austin also october 28th boston october 29th chicago october 30th san francisco november 4th so that week there's five different ones going on and uh that's really exciting so that's mission one five to ten founders you get to know each other it's kind of the planning committee and we did this because we want to purposefully make it small to start you get to know each other you build a little bit of culture everybody can talk to each other it's SPEAKER_13: not a free for all which is what sometimes the marketers want to create it's just as many people as possible to get as many emails as possible to start spamming people just not what i want SPEAKER_21: and my name's on these things so i got to trust that it's founders right rachel we got to trust these founders and you're actually talking to and meeting all of them right i am having to vet everybody who SPEAKER_10: signs up to attend and i there are some updates so i've noticed that there's been an influx of people applying which is absolutely great but because of that i am going to have to ask people now to include their linkedin url in a meetup so even if you applied to join a meetup in the past i would still really like it for you to keep applying to meetups as those signup sheets open up because i do not have SPEAKER_03: some linkedin urls got it so the reason we're asking for linkedin urls is because sales people and SPEAKER_23: marketers are already sneaking in aren't they rachel yep yeah they they are i feel really bad when i have SPEAKER_10: to send those emails asking people to refrain from coming until later in meetups would be really awesome SPEAKER_03: if everybody could could do that yeah it's not that we don't like sales people we have sales people at SPEAKER_14: all of our companies but we're trying to make this not we're trying to make it be balanced so we're starting with founders then we're adding investors and then meetup number two what's the footprint for SPEAKER_10: meetup number two so meetup two is more on the networking side because you will have a little bit more people around 25 to 50 founders you can meet up jason always says meet up have dim sum have pizza it's more of that vibe where you're probably going to need a reservation or at least a call ahead with that many people um and again that is 25 to 50 people for meetup two and then meetup three that's the big unlock meetup three yeah 50 to 100 people and that would actually include hosted content and jason will call in and he's been saying on the live that he's going to pick and SPEAKER_18: choose which cities he actually goes to so that's something to look out for i think that'll be exciting SPEAKER_30: yeah i mean if people make it to meet up number three they get 50 to 100 people SPEAKER_07: will and that's uh the big reward we'll actually record it i'll come on live maybe i'll meet a couple of companies maybe i'll take a couple pitches do a couple ask jasons uh maybe do a little founder mentoring whatever i can do to be helpful put it on a big screen and so what we try to do here SPEAKER_14: rachel and for the audience is the first one requires no reservations five to ten people you can i mean get a reservation but you can go to cafe go to a park you don't really need to worry SPEAKER_07: about it number two 25 to 50 people as you're saying you may need a private room you may need to ask a pizzeria or a burger joint hey can we get the back room or if it's a bar just give them a heads up hey we're gonna have 25 50 to people coming on a tuesday they'll probably be stoked and put out SPEAKER_13: some mozzarella sticks or uh you know some chips and salsa whatever my recommendation on these always when i was broke was mexican uh pizza because you can buy a pizza for 20 bucks and feed eight people you know how it is uh you can keep the prices low and make it accessible for everybody but obviously Chamath Palihapitiya: number three now you need av you need a quiet room you're gonna need microphones it's gonna get SPEAKER_07: more complicated and then number four uh we're gonna allow people to even i don't know if we SPEAKER_35: announce this but number four we're gonna allow people to have sponsors right and we do mention SPEAKER_07: that actually so we just want people to kind of work their way up here now we knew have some people like london is really professional group of people who decided to do this and they want to go a little faster so i asked them please just pump the brakes a little bit i know london's like a serious city i know you've got everything dialed in already uh but just work with us and going through the three missions they want to kind of jump to mission two or three out of the gate which i appreciate but if it's got my name on it let's let's do a little paste thing here i want people to get to know each other right i'm really relying on those founders and then we're also going to do the bracelet thing so explain SPEAKER_27: the bracelets we're going to do so when you attend the events you're going to have different color bracelets um the people that are attending i believe you said green bracelets and red bracelet SPEAKER_44: was it like that orange bracelets for founders orange orange is the color of this week and SPEAKER_13: startups uh official our official color and then for investors we'll have um are those gray bracelets SPEAKER_07: then because we're or blue bracelets investors give money and money is green there you go um shout out SPEAKER_10: to heidi on our team heidi's been very very nice and helping me uh do that because she made note that those are going to take quite a long time to come oh right supply chain issues so anyway yeah SPEAKER_13: we'll have the nice uh rubber uh bracelet like the little strong one yeah so we'll have those when you're at the event you'll get it this weekend startups founder bracelet or uh in orange or this uh the syndicate.com angel investor in green and so then in meetup number three probably we'll have those we'll ship them to your location we'll pay for it don't worry and then you give those to SPEAKER_07: people as they come in the door boom now when they come in the door yeah you know who you're talking to you you got an icebreaker oh tell me about your your uh firm how often do you angel invest what companies have you invested in oh you're a founder tell me about your company so potential cities that we're looking for include so you see those potential cities down there but SPEAKER_27: actually i'd like to talk more about berlin portland and sydney over on that right hand side because SPEAKER_10: you guys are so close to be able to actually have your first meetup we just need a little bit more people to apply and this morning we got enough people for philly so that's going to be moving SPEAKER_58: soon yeah philly cheesesteaks here we go yeah i mean for me it's all based on food so i'm going to be uh depending on how good the food is i'll be coming out to some cities but i'm really excited about this and thank you rachel for doing it all of the coordination occurs on slack so if you want to talk SPEAKER_07: to rachel uh you can do so at this week in startups.com slash slack there you go we make it super easy for you this week in startups.com meetups to get information on the meetups this week in startups.com slash slack to join our slack and if you come to the slack remember the slack is for conversations not promotions conversations and to coordinate the meetups talk about the show it's not SPEAKER_13: for you to invite people to your event to put job postings to try to market your product keep it to SPEAKER_07: conversations like be a normal person you don't go to a dinner party and you know immediately start selling people insurance don't do that on slack it's lame all right thanks again rachel also a little programming note uh tell everybody about our new okay boomer um segment that we're going to start SPEAKER_10: on fridays friday yeah yep so the okay boomer segment is going to be focusing around interesting things that the next generation is using the internet for such as trends and other things that others may not be aware of kind of think of things like what are people you can tease a couple of the ideas we talk about okay it's okay yeah some of the ideas that we're thinking about for example is the meme that's happening on twitter where you see people posting red flags also we're checking out tick tocks where people are giving resignation memes of spongebob and if you don't know what those are don't worry you're gonna have to stick around till friday and we'll we'll break them down yeah so the concept is young SPEAKER_07: people are using the internet and technology in all kind of ways that maybe boomers don't understand i'm gen x but we thought it would be funny since you're are you gen z or a millennial you're gen z uh i'm probably yeah i'm probably a gen z this is kind of just like a joke but it'll be every friday end of the show rachel's rachel reporting we'll go out and you know we'll interview somebody who resigned i think the resignation thing to me is fascinating i was watching on tick tock people are live streaming or recording their resignations and they're handing in a spongebob square pants mean that says i i'm gonna be out of SPEAKER_78: here or something and they record themselves resigning which i thought was absolutely fascinating uh so if you have ideas for okay boomer the new friday segment and if you have ideas for other SPEAKER_07: segments we'd like to have other segments um preferably i'd like to have a segment with a puppet nick if we could have a uh yeah rachel reporting you may want to get that handle rachel reporting SPEAKER_82: somebody's got to have rachel reporting but that'd be good for your long-term career all right rachel SPEAKER_01: thank you so much bye guys don't you wish you could hire a ringer to help scale out your marketing team i know you do well with marketer hire you can and you can do it right now marketer hire gives you access to expert freelancers on demand with no long-term contracts and no risk you can hire experienced specialists across the most valuable marketing disciplines from paid social and search to growth seo content and even get a fractional cmo if you don't need a full-time one maybe a fractional one would work great for you again no long-term contracts you can cancel at any time and if it's your first time working with freelance talent you'll start with a no risk trial only hire what you need and stay on budget with hourly part-time or full-time arrangements every freelancer on marketer hire goes through a rigorous vetting process with industry experts freelancers from marketer hire have been hired at over 1500 companies including top brands like netflix all birds and lambda school you're going to get 500 off your first hire at marketerhire.com twist again marketer m-a-r-k-e-t-e-r-h-i-r-e.com twist marketerhire.com twist get that 500 right now and you'll also get a free consultation on who to hire based on your needs and your goals again 500 right now marketerhire.com twist all right i did a SPEAKER_07: tweet what's going on with oculus is anybody actually using these and i just pointed out a trend i see all the time and i didn't mean any offense the oculus team by the way this is not specific to oculus is really about vr but oculus is the leader so i i mentioned them so again apologies to anybody at oculus who took this personal i know parma lucky uh the founder of oculus who is no SPEAKER_14: longer at oculus liked one of the rebuttals to my tweet but here's the tweet i said every person i SPEAKER_07: know who has bought an oculus uses it for a couple of days they won't shut up about it for one week and then they never bring it up again uh which is to say they stopped using it uh explain slash name this pattern i named it the oculus try oh my and goodbye so i was being a little cheeky maybe a little sharp elbowed uh ryan engel uh whose twitter bio reads creator of top golf with pro putt for oculus SPEAKER_92: golf scope founder and ceo former cto wikibuy extremely bullish on vr responded not according SPEAKER_07: to our usage metrics real data is greater than twitter anecdotes however people you know didn't buy it to game then it's probably right it's primarily a glimpse into the future for non-gamers we skew older golf averaging because i asked a follow-up question like who who's using it and he said averaging around 30 to 40 years old mostly male but apparently a higher female percentage compared to most vr games our game is very social and pretty relaxing so i think it's a nice escape my 65 year old dad has been playing uh daily for a year he also noted someone can say they hate vr but the data says they play 10 hours a week yada yada and so i responded i thought this is a very interesting insight because almost everybody i know who's bought one of these headsets from oculus uh which is the leader and they're really affordable and they're super impressive like that's why i was saying people get really excited about and then stop using it so i'm just wondering out loud why that is SPEAKER_00: the people i know who bought these were all pc gamers like they were intense gamers and i think SPEAKER_07: the issue is if you're an intense gamer and you really like pc games or console games i think vr is not as good it's not as good of an experience so if you've got a lot of gaming enthusiasm and you're really the tip of the spear i think vr is a step back for you it's not as engaging uh you might like playing saber whatever dancing saber one or you might like this golf one but um i came up with another theory because then there's the people who play casual games right and there's many more casual gamers on phones playing bejeweled or cut the rope or angry birds or you know candy crush you know all these games uh farmville i think those people might also be interested in vr but it's not portable in the same way right so who is the audience well i thought this was interesting so i really appreciated the um response i got back SPEAKER_92: from ryan uh about golf and we should book them for the show by the way uh producer uh justin SPEAKER_07: they what they've explained i think is listen playing golf on a pc or playing golf on your ipad those experiences might not be that fun right you want to play golf on your pc or golf on your iphone Chamath Palihapitiya: i don't think so but the real world golf that's hard you got to get you got to book a tee time SPEAKER_00: it's massively expensive so that if you were considering golf versus like real world golf versus SPEAKER_07: vr golf vr golf is cheap and easy and fun when compared to real world golf it's much cheaper it's much easier you don't have to get in a car and it's a lot of fun so maybe there's something about real SPEAKER_00: world activities that are expensive and hard to do mountain climbing scuba diving skiing i'm thinking out loud here flying an airplane uh hang gliding you know maybe you even include dangerous in this SPEAKER_07: so things that are dangerous and expensive that maybe only rich people can do or that are you know take a lot of coordination maybe those are perfect for vr because vr is about creating a world well if you're doing a first person shooter or you're playing you know diablo whatever game you're into SPEAKER_98: fortnite maybe that doesn't work as well but these other things do so i thought this was kind of uh SPEAKER_92: interesting a frequent source of scoops on twitter and facebook features jane wong aka wong m jane SPEAKER_11: worth following frequently post playing the game beat saber which is kind of like guitar hero with SPEAKER_07: lightsabers and i actually played this we bought two of the new oculus my kids loved it we used it for a week and it's been sitting collecting dust ever since and i think i paid 50 bucks for it but my lord beat saber is awesome that is a very fun game and i think that's like another perfect example you really wouldn't do go fencing or something you really can't play a star wars lightsaber SPEAKER_13: game i am surprised that beat saber uh lightsaber i'm surprised they didn't get sued by lucasart it feels like they just stole the ip from uh star wars because they are literal lightsabers i'm not sure SPEAKER_07: how that was allowed or does anybody in the nodi gang know uh my live viewers do you know if lucasart gave a license somebody looked that up if no if lucasart gave their permission for beat saber uh or was there any lawsuit or because it did feel to me unfair for them to copy lightsabers so blatantly SPEAKER_13: with beat saber i mean i don't i'm not trying to start trouble here but i mean they could have called SPEAKER_07: it sword or some saber and not made it glowing lightsabers i mean it's literally glowing lightsabers and they should uh i would say disney should just buy this company if i was disney i would threaten to sue the company and then give them a buyout offer at the same time i would say here's the hard way here's the easy way and uh if they have if they're not in compliance and what an amazing thing beat saber would be if you could play obi-wan or darth maul or if you could battle other people and you could use have the ip of obi-wan teaching you you know there's a specific style that obi-wan and qui qui-gon jinn used versus uh ashoka tana and uh according to some of our live listeners here SPEAKER_66: facebook bought beat saber and uh there apparently is another game vader immortal which is uh actually SPEAKER_13: licensed properly for those of you who are asking if you own ip the reason you see these lawsuits so frequently in fact lucasfilm uh back in 2016 sued some jedi school uh because they were training people SPEAKER_07: in lightsabers the reason ip owners have to do this is is because if you don't the lawyers tell you if you don't sue somebody for infringing on your trademark then some really bad actor can use your trademark and point to the times you didn't sue other people and say well you didn't stop them and they did more infringing or did equal infringing therefore you can't stop up so it's either you protect it or you lose it you protect your ip or you lose it so anyway um basically with this vr stuff my personal belief is um that the headsets are too heavy uh too cumbersome and the other options out there for gaming are too compelling and that the software is just not there yet in other words i think they've solved the platform problem uh you know there's a big enough platform out here i think they solved monetization because people who have these will pay 50 bucks 25 bucks for these games i did other people will but it should be a little cheaper and i think the software hasn't um found uh hasn't been refined enough so i think you know beat saber and uh rec room are the two that people really like i think it's going to take another maybe three revisions two or three revisions on the software for somebody to make something that is so compelling that a million or two million people a day want to use it and i think when you get a million people playing a social game per day as opposed to per month i think rec room says they have a million active users when you start to get millions of active users per day and when you show up to play a game it really becomes uh interesting so it does feel like we're on the cusp with vr and i wonder if vr the headsets are just too heavy too expensive too clunky you know the fear of tripping over animals in your house children bumping into stuff and that maybe ar if you could pay beat sabers on google ar glasses and you see the beats coming to you and you can see your friends around that would be super interesting but i do give oculus a lot of credit the latest headset that doesn't need to be plugged in or sync with your phone is dynamite but the games are not as compelling as ipad games and pc games and console games so that's where i think the investment has to SPEAKER_13: come in uh but we'll see i think the metaverse is a bit of a bust i think the real world is more fun SPEAKER_01: if your bank charges outrageous fees you need a bank account that's built for small businesses you need to check out novo's free business banking platform novo is built from the ground up to be powerful yet simple and provide free business banking you heard that correct there are no minimum balances there are no transaction limits and there's no hidden fees that's why money magazine called novo the best business checking account in 2021 novo makes banking easy and secure you can manage your account and their customizable website and use their apps novo's web apps have built-in profit first accounting and invoicing you can easily tag each transaction and upload your receipts easy breezy lemon squeezy novo seamlessly integrates with most leading business tools and services like try if i use that shopify we use that quickbooks we've used that and more for free they also offer five thousand dollars in perks and discounts just for signing up so get your free business banking account in just 10 minutes at banknovo.com twist you'll also get a novo debit card for free atm use and a free copy of novo small business starter guide once again banknovo.com twist that's b-a-n-k-n-o-v-o dot com slash t-w-i-s-t to open your banking account in just 10 minutes give it a shot it's amazing SPEAKER_03: all right everybody a friend of the pod jeff lawson is back with us if you've been listening to this pod SPEAKER_110: over the last decade he's been on i think four or five times uh episode 308 in 2012 episode 495 in 2014 episode 967 in 2019 and back again today uh as you know twilio has been on quite a tear they ipo'd in SPEAKER_111: june of 2016 and they were trading at around five billion dollars uh in market cap and today they're a 57 billion dollar company 12 times their first closing price and it's because of some pretty spectacular earnings and growth they're on a 2.6 billion dollar run rate or so up 50 year over year SPEAKER_92: that puts you in the high growth category and they have over 240 000 active customers as of june 2021 SPEAKER_111: that's certainly gone up a bit over 6 000 employees and they've been buying a lot of companies uh major news since the last appearance uh when jeff was on they closed their segment acquisition uh in 2020 SPEAKER_92: for 3.2 billion and we actually had segments uh ceo peter uh reindhart on the program episode 935 back SPEAKER_111: in may of 2019 and uh jeff you're just off of launching twilio engage at your signal event today but welcome back to the program thank you so much jason it's great to be back so it's been pretty crazy since your last uh time on the pod we've had the pandemic uh everybody's gone to work from home and as crazy as it seems the pandemic for sas companies uh has been uh just absolutely an accelerant uh because people are spending more time online online services need more back-end services like you provide what has it been like for twilio during this crazy pandemic obviously we're taping this SPEAKER_117: as the delta variant seems to be waning we can only hope and uh we almost got there on vaccines so SPEAKER_120: close but yeah knock on wood yeah well you know you know it's uh as you said it's an acceleration right which is the trends that have driven digital adoption and you know people call digital transformation these things have been going on for the last 15 20 years you know they got accelerated by mobile phones and smartphones they got they got started in many ways because the web well covet accelerated those trends even more right because we become even more uh reliant on these digital workflows of getting things delivered to us instead of going face to face of buying things online instead of offline and it's interesting even trends like seeing a doctor via video i think have experienced a one-way acceleration which is you know telemedicine you know was not invented during the pandemic it had been around for a while but you know most of our habits were like oh when i need to see the doctor i go to the doctor that's what i do well along came the pandemic and many people had their first telemedicine visit for one reason or another whether it was just a you know well regular checkup or a scrape or whatever it is you saw a doctor via video and you realize oh wow like that was so much more convenient you know if i need to see a doctor you know i don't have to call and schedule and then take uh take half day off of work drive across town find parking sit in the waiting room where i assume i'm getting SPEAKER_124: more sick you see being in a doctor's waiting room yeah like all i need to do is take 15 minutes out of my calendar and uh joined yet another zoom right basically right and see and see the doctor and how much more convenient that is and i think the net result of that is more people are going to get health care you're not going to put off that appointment or for folks um especially those in rural areas they will be able to see the doctor that they couldn't see or imagine folks who are who are hourly workers we're seeing the doctor literally means going without salary right because you need to take a day off of work and imagine if your kid needs to go to the doctor and you need to drive to like across the state and to you know to find that specialist and take days off of work and go without your wages imagine all the medical appointments that just don't happen anyway it's just one example but i think it's such an amazing one because the acceleration of telemedicine SPEAKER_120: is just one example um but this is a one-way street like these experiences that we have had we've realized just how powerful they are how they give us back time how they um make us more efficient and that you know we did a survey of a few thousand companies um recently and we asked them how much did covet accelerate your digital strategy and on average the digital roadmaps of companies were SPEAKER_124: accelerated by six years wow six years and that's backed up by some of the conversations that i've had SPEAKER_120: with folks i was talking with the cio of a major big box retailer and you know this was last year and and the cio said we saw a uh for him this was like mid last year he said we saw a five-year acceleration of our e-commerce adoption in the course of one quarter wow you can imagine just how companies have to pour resources in to support that growth to support their customers and that has been just a critical acceleration and i remember that weekend you remember the weekend where just really SPEAKER_127: everything shut down yeah that was like the i think it was the 12th friday the 13th i'll never forget it SPEAKER_110: it was friday i think it was the 12th that the nba canceled the game with people on the court and was SPEAKER_130: like everybody go home and you're like go home yeah wow that's dramatic that week it was the week of SPEAKER_120: march 9th 2020 when just everything just got so real here in the united states at least and and that weekend so i was actually on a work trip that week i got home and it was like okay we're all going into lockdown and like you can imagine like you know every executive team of every company was having calls like okay what are we you know what's going on what are we doing we had shut down SPEAKER_133: all of our offices uh early that week and you know there were real questions raised of like okay like should we stop hiring should we even do you put a pause on all because who knows what's about to SPEAKER_120: happen right and an interesting thing happened that weekend i got so many emails from developers customers partners non-profits you name it people saying i'm building a thing i'm building a thing to help kids homeschool i'm building a thing to help keep uh you know patients out of hospitals that are that are going to get overwhelmed i'm building a thing to help keep people safe or keep track of loved ones or blah blah blah so many ideas suddenly we're coming out of the woodwork and everyone was saying hey you know jeff yeah can you hook us up with credit can you find us help anyone know how to do this or and in that moment i realized just how important the builders of the world were going to be SPEAKER_133: to help us all manage through this pandemic yeah and in that moment we decided it was like we are not SPEAKER_138: going to freeze hiring in fact i think we're going to grow we set a goal for the company we said our goal SPEAKER_01: is to emerge stronger from this pandemic it's time for another our crowd deal of the week right now you can join our crowds investment in orient according to the deal memo orients software only indoor gps is 20 times more accurate and scalable than current solutions and they've landed contracts with some of the world's largest retailers so why join our crowd well our crowd investors were early in some of the best performing ipos of 2019 and 2020 and now you can join them with our crowd accredited investors can invest directly easily and most importantly early our crowd investors have benefited from companies ipoing like beyond me or being bought by companies like intel nike microsoft oracle and my personal favorite uber so here's your call to action our crowds accredited investors have already invested over 1 billion dollars in growing tech companies if you are an accredited investor you can join our crowd for Chamath Palihapitiya: free at o-u-r-c-r-o-w-d.com slash twist and review the current deals there's no payment involved until you decide to invest that's ourcrowd.com twist just sign up for free and if you look at the other silver SPEAKER_111: linings that have occurred you have this great accelerant right and doctors if you just think about doctors like i'm assuming you and i both have like great doctors we might have a concierge doctor when you get to a certain station in life you can pay to have a doctor who will talk to you on sms when you're part of the whatever hmo they're talking to you on sms they're not going to do a facetime with you any time of the day or the weekend now that has now doctors are embracing that really wait a second this is more effective i can see more patients in less time i can make more money and so it's actually everybody gets to benefit from maybe something that only elite people had access to even when it comes to food delivery and and those kind of things there were many places that didn't even have food delivery had very few choices and that expanded and the big one for me i don't know if you've been watching this the past week with mrna um mrna is going to create a vaccine for hiv and malaria really like h there's a big argument here that hiv and more people die from malaria every year than SPEAKER_35: will cumulatively die from kobe that's a certainty and and the suffering from hiv i'm not sure SPEAKER_111: exactly what those top line numbers are but this is the the mrna advancements are going to change everything right i mean and the fact that we've even been able to slay two or three more dragons SPEAKER_147: uh that we never thought we'd ever say you know they say necessity is the mother of invention right SPEAKER_120: and during periods of drastic change to society there is so much more necessity than ever and you think about what happens in wars you know what happened in the cold war the space race and you know a pandemic is is i think a similar thing where the changes that occur the massive changes in society create necessity to adapt to those change right and in particular it's the software people of the world who can adapt incredibly quickly right because software is so malleable we can build anything in software right and that's what's so interesting about our current times is that whether it is changes brought about by the pandemic or the acceleration of you know competition in the digital realm the need for companies and organizations and entire societies to adapt to an accelerated pace of change has never been greater and i liken it you know um i released a book earlier this year called ask your developer ah cool and the book is of all about how business folks can better partner with software talent and technical talent software developers to unleash their companies during this digital era and you know i observe because i'm you know a ceo but i'm also a software developer so i've got a foot in both worlds and i've observed many times that um business people don't always know how software developers work you know what do they do all day and what makes you know a healthy software development organization from an unhealthy one and um how do i enable those folks and then for many business executives the software talent the software development is like a black box they don't really know how it works they think you know product specs and pizza go in one end and out the other end comes code and like that's how it works and so i wanted to demystify it and actually help folks learn how to work better with those software developers one of the things that i observed in that in in the book is how there's a almost literally darwinian evolution of every industry going on right now SPEAKER_133: and this has been accelerated by covid and many other things but it is um essentially the need for SPEAKER_120: companies to build in order to survive and the the basis of it look if you roll the clock back 20 years and that's when it was a mostly thought of as this back office concept and it was about your SPEAKER_161: printers having paper in them and like the financial system that ran somewhere in the bowels SPEAKER_35: of the company they were like the photo they were like the photocopy room or the mail room they were just a service provided to executives yeah it was like a cost center and the idea that you would SPEAKER_120: outsource it and save money wherever possible it made a ton of sense and like in that context would SPEAKER_133: always be this question the famous questions build versus buy right yeah and you know you'd say okay well we need a financial system or whatever it is we need well you know we could build our own but of course some vendor comes in and says no why would you reinvent the wheel you're just going to buy what we what we have we've already done this you'd be a fool to go build it yourself and look they were usually right back then and so you just buy something you buy oracle financials whatever it is well over the last 20 years the power of software has moved from that back office cross-centered stuff to the source of customer differentiation the power for the company is the ability to serve customers in mobile apps and on the websites and digitizing all these SPEAKER_166: processes think about your bank you know you no longer walk into a branch your bank is an app SPEAKER_111: and so look at the uh look at the airlines like they they never had apps and now you open the united app the jetblue app the whole experience is just flawless and perfect and they're not outsourcing that to somebody they're not telling you to go to kayak they're building that in-house right yeah think SPEAKER_120: about what happens like with any flight you you get on the airplane you take off you land it's hopefully on time but like really the experience in the air is not that different regardless of SPEAKER_133: whose metal tube you're in and really it's all the stuff that you wrap around that experience that makes it you know that builds loyalty that makes you say oh i love this airline and not that airline oh i regularly want to fly this one and that experience is something you have to build you can't just SPEAKER_120: get by the turnkey thing off the shelf from some vendor that you and all your competitors are putting because guess what happens some startup enters the field yeah and they're great at software right and out of necessity what do they do they think about the customer what does the customer need how is the customer not getting served by the status quo and if i can go answer that question then SPEAKER_133: i will build my business and out of necessity they figure out something that will make customers care and then they start building their business so when that happens all the incumbents in an industry at first no one notices then they start getting bigger and bigger and bigger they raise a bunch of venture capital and they start getting a lot of attention and the incumbents one by one say whoa whoa hold on SPEAKER_124: like we can't let them go you know win the hearts minds and wallets of our customers we got to go do it so they start building yeah and they start saying well we have to go listen to customers and building and the survival of the fittest here you know if you think about it survival the fittest is those that SPEAKER_120: adapt most quickly will survive and that's literally what's happening in industry after industry which is adaptation to changing environment is what dictates survival and so the companies that adopt SPEAKER_133: software that software mindset that agility and think my job is to go listen to customers and build the answers to their problems better than anyone else in my competitive set those are the companies that win and so it's no longer build versus buy it's build versus die bill yeah i love i mean that's a SPEAKER_175: that's a great way to summarize it if you when you were saying that i just had so many examples come SPEAKER_111: into my head the one i was just thinking of is look at netflix versus disney disney was selling netflix you know daredevil and a you know a bunch of uh the punisher and saying yeah you guys figured SPEAKER_177: out how to do direct to consumer you've got this great app here we'll sell you our ip and then all of a sudden disney's like wait a second we we're losing they've got our customers like we need to have our own product and what do they do just like you're saying they hire a bunch of developers they build disney plus disney plus is an awesome product and now they're head-to-head versus netflix but it what did netflix spend 10 years without anybody even considering uh competing with them and then hbo max is like oh god disney's doing this we need to do this and so and it was really industry and SPEAKER_124: netflix industry yeah every industry has undergone this transformation and here's what's interesting SPEAKER_133: so the pandemic has accelerated all these trends right but it's and so every company is working to become a digital company and working to build great relationships their customers the pandemic SPEAKER_131: accelerated their need to do that but it's also accelerated the digital giants SPEAKER_133: netflix amazon google facebook right think about fang like are we more reliant on those companies now than we were 18 months ago i think probably so yeah amazon for sure i mean right i mean i think people have watched a play a lot more netflix than they did 18 months ago right over the past 18 months so SPEAKER_120: and the amazing thing about those companies is the reason those experiences get better and better and better is because they are building and they get better with the more we use them so amazon learns hey what are the things that jason likes to shop for what are the relevant products and um and can tailor that experience whether it's on the website whether it's on mobile app whether it's when you're talking to an alexa it's like those experiences get better and better and better because they're SPEAKER_124: listening they're paying attention it's one fluid conversation your entire journey as a customer is one SPEAKER_120: giant conversation between you and the company where they are listening and tailoring back to you and as a result of that it is getting better and better and better and so while the pandemic has accelerated everyone's digital roadmaps it has massively accelerated the digital giants and here's the thing i think when you look at what's going on in our society today i think companies and consumers the companies are really worried about having to pay a digital tax to apple to google to amazon to netflix like do i should this small handful of companies get 30 off the top of all our businesses i think every company is is worried shitless about that yeah because they're saying if if they have the relationship with the customer and i can only buy the customer's eyeballs transactionally and i have to win to get the next buy and the next buy i have to pay them every single time wow that is going to make my digital future really hard to unlock and so company after company is realizing that they have to build great technology they have to build great data they have to understand their customers they can't just do the lazy thing of like well let me buy let me outsource understanding customers to you know company who i can buy ads and say go target people and like i have to reacquire my customers every time they're like no i have to build that loyalty that relationship with my customers and i need to do it directly and i need to do it in a way that's unbreakable where my customers can't be auctioned SPEAKER_111: off to the next highest bidder every day they have to be your customers you have to have their contact information which if you think about your journey at twilio you know we had a time period where people signed up with email uh or they bought something from an app store and you had zero relationship with them maybe you knew something about their phone when they installed the app maybe when they upgraded it but that was all you knew and now every sign up i mean i think it's in no small SPEAKER_35: part to what you did with twilio especially the early version with messaging on phones the first thing SPEAKER_111: people ask for is your phone number they will and everybody in society is like yeah of course SPEAKER_35: i'll sign up with my phone number that's even better uh but then you have apple realizing this and then obscurifying and saying hey use your apple login it'll be more private uh you don't have to give your email so i'm curious what you think of let's let's go into apple specifically they have tried to uh under the guise of and i believe them like they want to protect people's privacy they seem to be very focused on that seems like a noble mission to me uh they're like hey we're going to SPEAKER_111: obscurify the email we're going to obscurify your phone what are your thoughts on that and the impact that has on businesses is is it a good thing uh ultimately that they're protecting more privacy SPEAKER_193: privacy changes that are going on in technology and in our society whether they're driven by SPEAKER_120: governments whether they're driven by technology companies themselves are positive i think if most consumers knew what was going on behind the scenes um and knew the kinds of data about them that was being assembled and amassed and how that was used to you know one way you would say target ads that SPEAKER_133: sounds fine and otherwise they manipulate you um i think people would be horrified i mean i remember i was talking to my sister uh maybe this is like two years ago and you know i was kind of talking about some of the dangers of facebook and uh you know and i and i said you know that's how they target you know ads that you really effectively i was just kind of explaining how facebook worked and like just the things to be aware of and she said there's ads on facebook it's like you didn't SPEAKER_202: notice that every third post basically is an ad no idea right they designed it that way right you SPEAKER_124: know and it's super clever and they've built an amazing business but at the same time i think if people really understood how it all worked they would say that they're not comfortable with it and i think that's the reckoning that's been happening right which is society catching up with the advancements that have happened and asking the really good questions of like what do we value as SPEAKER_120: as societies and therefore privacy is critical but privacy is also making it harder for companies SPEAKER_133: to know to um to build their businesses right and that is further accelerating the need for every company to take their first party data and learn from it and get really good at using the things that you volunteer to a company in order to help them tailor the experience do i think when i go to amazon SPEAKER_124: and when they say you know products you might like based on what you've browsed do i think that creepy no that's useful yeah but if they were selling that to everyone else like now that's creepy right so when a company does it directly with you that's called paying attention right that's called being you know engaging yeah when people are selling others that's a bartender remembering how you like your SPEAKER_98: drink and you know saying hey you want the regular jeff uh here you go uh one of my favorite examples SPEAKER_217: of of this is um is nordstrom i remember several years ago i was talking to eric nordstrom SPEAKER_124: and you know he said you know in the 50s and 60s where nordstrom really came to its prominence in this era people walked into nordstrom because the salesperson knew your name walked in the door they said how was that suit that i sold you last month for the wedding like was it good he's like and that level of like high touch that could that experience that consistency like that's what customers loved about nordstrom and now our strategy is we figure how do we scale that feeling because now we're obviously we're online we're digital and like we're not pretending like that's the world we live in anymore but that's still the way we want a customer to feel and i think that that is absolutely true and the interesting thing is most companies you know SPEAKER_120: how do all these systems work that they use to like build these customer experiences it's like well you went out and you bought a marketing cloud you went out and bought a sales SPEAKER_133: cloud you went out and bought a crm you went out and bought a contact center you went out and bought SPEAKER_124: an e-commerce engine you have all these like bits and pieces they can't talk to each other they're kind of turnkey apps they're really hard to customize and what you end up with is this really disjointed experience and when your people your product managers have an idea like wouldn't it be great if we could do this you turn around you look at this the app that you bought and you say SPEAKER_131: it doesn't do that all right well i guess we're kind of stuck and you know do you think amazon just went out and bought a crm system and like plugged it in and said okay we're done no of course not SPEAKER_222: they built this so it took years building your own technology understanding that yeah can you expect SPEAKER_133: every company to go build the same things that has taken amazon and netflix and google like you know SPEAKER_124: a decade to go build no every company can't be expected to go do that and that's why at twilio SPEAKER_131: we are we launched our the twilio customer engagement platform and that's that what you SPEAKER_127: announced uh you know this week at the conference yeah exactly which is to say like you know we started SPEAKER_133: in communications you know and delivering you know the leading platform for voice and messaging and SPEAKER_124: email and chat and video and all the channels of communications what customers said is hey this is SPEAKER_133: great you know we powered a trillion communications last year um so it's like we're powering all these SPEAKER_124: customer experiences but it's the software that decides you know what message to send and what should it say and like should i send it or not send it am i going to annoy jason or am i going to delight jason with this that is those are really hard problems and it's a problem first of how do SPEAKER_133: i understand my customer so i don't just blindly go blast the same you know marketing email to a million people regardless of who they are or where they are on the journey like how do i actually do a good job of that um how do i support a customer when they write in like if they need help how do i make that a great experience the agent knows who you are they know what you bought you don't repeating SPEAKER_124: your name and your account number and your mom's dog's maiden name 10 times like how do i make these experiences into great ones and you do that by building and by stitching these things together and like if you go over and look at the the digital giants and say well they didn't just buy something off the shelf no they've built it these great experiences are built not bought well then everyone else needs the ability to do that too and so what we are doing is democratizing SPEAKER_120: all of these great data systems and personalization systems so that every company will be able to execute with the same level of precision and personalization and and uh and customization so SPEAKER_228: customer engagement platform is different than crm customer relationship management or is it just your SPEAKER_35: spin on it that's the word you use because you're a communications platform and you did all this messaging before so instead of saying hey this is a crm you're using you're swapping in that engagement because that's at the core of what twilio does am i reading that correct in terms of the marketing SPEAKER_233: branding of it position of it crm is a b2b concept right crm started as like sales people typing in the SPEAKER_124: notes on their sales conversations right to enable sales teams to be more effective to all sales managers to understand the state of their pipeline i mean that's what crm is sure and if you think SPEAKER_133: about it you know everything that a b2b company knows about their customers is basically what's been typed into what's been typed into a form right yeah oh i talked to them and the the buyer the vice president's on vacation this week whatever yeah um b2c isn't about sales people typing in notes SPEAKER_124: b2b is really or b2c is about scale and data and building automation because there is no sales person typing in a note b to c is about paying attention how are customers using my apps you know what are they clicking on what are they viewing what things do they buy what did they return um and using all SPEAKER_133: that signal in order to make your company more relevant and better for those customers and it's a completely different scale than the b2b problem like b2b i think every sales person typing in every note on the planet caps out at about 10 000 writes per second like if you summed up the SPEAKER_161: entire crm industry 10 000 notes per second are made during the business day and it's not being SPEAKER_30: made into code it's not like you're saying hey anybody who you know uh felt like price was the SPEAKER_35: reason that they didn't engage with our product we're going to send them this affordability or how to make more money using this product it's not like they're programmatically using it in any way but what you're doing with the new platform is saying hey let's let's bucket people into segments and let's market to them intelligently and programmatically and make it feel more like the amazon experience so that means this product goes head to head with hubspot i would say off the top of my SPEAKER_133: head i you know i don't think there's really a i don't think anyone has done this for b2c companies effectively got it i think most b2c companies have to go essentially build it themselves or really struggle to build it themselves because there's a lot to do and so our goal is to deliver the platform that gives companies a leg up that does a lot of that heavy lifting for them so that SPEAKER_124: then they can go in and build in their secret sauce their magic the things that they really want to build for their customers and in doing so be able to compete on a level playing field and so when i think about like you know consumer companies it's a totally different scale if the b2b world is 10 000 notes you know written at a time it's like in the b2c world you're talking of like trillions of data SPEAKER_133: points collected every second yeah and so it needs to be architected completely different it needs to be uh consumed in a very different way machine learning is critically important to make sense of all that SPEAKER_124: data um and then personalization you know i was talking to um uh at our conference this week i was talking to uh intuit to mariana tessel the cto of intuit and she said that uh you know at intuit they used to have like you know a few buckets of customers like think about the life cycle of a SPEAKER_133: customer they're like okay there were like a few categories and you know so they could do some minor personalization to it and she said with the twilio segment leading customer data platform that allows SPEAKER_124: companies to ingest like all this interesting data how they're clicking on your products how they're using the website the mobile apps all these data points you can actually really start to understand your customer and they've gone from a few buckets to over 500 different segments that they use to SPEAKER_133: micro target um their customers and in doing so i've got an incredible lift in engagement i think they more than doubled the number of people who are actually engaging because they send you something relevant you know jason you've been a customer for 10 years and i send you the you know hey you need SPEAKER_247: help doing your taxes this year it's like no of course i've done it 10 years on you why don't you SPEAKER_111: listen why aren't you paying attention right yeah like that's not the message for me and if you think about it like when we're talking about this acceleration that occurred in uh during covet how many restaurants did you go to that move to you know toast or whatever online platform for typing in your phone number ordering on your phone paying on your phone and have any of these restaurants emailed you yet and been like hey jeff you know uh yeah we we know that you love uh burgundy's and uh we're having our burgundy festival this sunday and we're gonna have coco vin and we'd love to have you come and have SPEAKER_35: a burgundy with it uh you know we've got this family meal plan whatever is that i mean they've nobody's SPEAKER_111: using the data so it's almost like this collection of the data has occurred but the actual segmentation SPEAKER_110: of it and and the micro targeting or doing 500 groups it's just it's people don't get to it do SPEAKER_252: they they just don't get to it it's too hard well it takes a lot of expertise it takes a lot of of SPEAKER_124: talent and and the reason is you look at the digital grapes right they have that talent they have armies of really great engineers building this stuff and every company needs that same thing and so that's SPEAKER_133: what we're that's what we're doing with our customer engagement club so the big you know we launched a bunch of things this week but um you know one of the big things we launched is a new product called twilio engage so it starts with the data so twilio segment the leading customer data platform in the market helps customers gather all the data from all those click streams and all those usage of apps and like every they can connect to everything and build a profile of the customer and the question SPEAKER_124: is well what do you do with that and so what we launched is twilio engage that lets you act on that understanding of your customer so based on that profile you can create all sorts of different segments you can create journeys and then based on where a customer is in that journey customize your messaging so email campaigns messaging campaigns advertising campaigns so connects your your digital communications your digital advertising budgets into one place you build up the best real-time view of your customer then use that to customize every one of these things and i think back to like you know traditional you know marketing uh uh you know sas and it's like okay the most of the marketing clouds that are out there today were built in the era of email they were built you know 15 20 years ago SPEAKER_133: they have like you know oh here's the six fields you can use to customize your customer record you know and if they're lucky you know customization means you know the email says hi jason uh and and SPEAKER_131: doesn't actually have the curly brace curly brace first underscore name right exactly right um and it's like that's called customer if you successfully do the merge of first name you're called spin SPEAKER_124: customized job done right and then the marketers these other interesting like what do they look at as success for this thing they look at like opens and clicks right right and like mark and you say well that's really all we can look at is like well did anyone open the email i guess that's good you know we got you know four percent people open the email oh that's good like well no what does the business really care about did this campaign actually result in jason becoming a better customer yeah that have moved tracing down the customer journey and because segment is tied into the data stream of all the systems including your e-commerce systems and everything else they can say well run a campaign but you decide you know what is the target you're going to track to say success for this campaign it shouldn't be opens it should be did he buy something and that buying something might be two days later but you can now take a very flexible array of outcomes that you as a business are trying to achieve and use those as the goal for your marketers and like isn't that what everyone's really trying to do which is to use all this technology understand your customer engage the customer ultimately to build your business that's what twilio engage lets companies SPEAKER_111: do is there as you talk and i know you guys have done a really great job with the acquisition sendgrid obviously uh and uh segment being the two big ones is there something happening now where all of these sas communication crm marketing and sales platforms are converging into some singularity because you know there's zendesk over here klavio hubspot we talked about and then you mentioned intuit and they just bought mailchimp and so you have all these disparate pieces and it seems like i saw hubspot had launched salesforce like features salesforce obviously added customer support so is everything just going to converge into a platform whether it's you know salesforce's hubspot or yours that just manages an entire customer's business is that what's happening SPEAKER_177: here and then i there have a bunch of downstream questions from there if that is happening SPEAKER_120: in your mind is that the short singularity the short answer is yes right think about the back SPEAKER_133: office of the company right the back office you know like the cfo right you know they've got a financial system kind of everything has to be tied into that financial system or else it doesn't exist right like at most companies if uh you know if a revenue stream isn't actually flowing into the financial system like you're not allowed to launch it right and that's because actually keeping track SPEAKER_120: of the financials of the company is important and have it all tied together because companies have to report their financials right you look at the front office of a company how do you make money SPEAKER_124: how do you serve your customers and and companies have been cobbling together combinations of technologies some that they built some that they bought trying in vain to stitch these things together to build that cohesive experience and largely failing you know i don't think most executives wake up in the morning and say like do i really think we've dialed this in that we really are able to take and have a view of our customer that incorporates everything we know about them and SPEAKER_120: allows us to make smart decisions based on that the answer for every executive i've ever talked to is like to know and as much as we're trying we've invested a lot to try to do that you know the proliferation of like adding yet new more things to the mix is actually happening faster than we can SPEAKER_124: actually um bring all the data together uh and actually act on the stuff we already have and so SPEAKER_133: i believe that we will companies do need a more sensical way to execute their customer facing SPEAKER_124: parts but here's the thing it's not going to be a turnkey app right it's not going to be like oh yeah you just you know you plug it in and you know you hire some consultants maybe to do some SPEAKER_133: configuration and then you're good to go because the customer facing stuff that you do that's how SPEAKER_271: you differentiate right that's how you serve your customer that has to be for your customer SPEAKER_133: it's it's it's not that it's bespoke for the sake of being bespoke it's it is it is a build because customers and competition demands it right if your customer SPEAKER_124: experience is the same as everyone else's well what's going to happen you're gonna you're gonna start to say hey well we in order to win we have to be we have to be different and what do we do we go listen to our customers our customers say hey well you know it sucks about everything i wish my bank did this i wish my airline did that i wish my whatever yeah and then when you hear that you know companies start building and say okay well if we're the ones to do that customers are going to love us more and we're going to go in the hearts minds and wallets therefore we have to go build and so the platform that companies need to build this customer facing the forward-facing part of their SPEAKER_120: business the top line growth engine of a business is a platform that enables them to understand their customers act on it and build that's what we're building at twilio because we believe our mission SPEAKER_273: is to unlock the imagination of builders i like it that's a new tagline yeah if you think about it SPEAKER_124: you know builders build all sorts of things humanity is is is is where it is because the imagination of builders has gotten us to where we are and we we have built amazing things as you know we built some problems too but we have built amazing things i mean that is the probably the defining characteristic of humanity is that we build oh it is therefore and now one of the most powerful ways that human beings are building is number one you know in a capitalist society is building companies like that's how we that's our method of collaborating to build things more valuable than what we can build individually SPEAKER_133: and number two um is with software you have unprecedented ability to build at scale and if SPEAKER_120: you think about it it's it's kind of mind-blowing that a software developer can sit down at a computer and a text editor and type in some magical codes and hit publish and that code goes into an SPEAKER_124: app store it goes onto the internet and now billions of people can use that thing that that person built that is a scale of human creation that has never existed before yeah that one person can now affect the SPEAKER_133: lives of of billions of people because of the scale of the internet and app stores and all this kind of stuff and that creates the opportunity for those developers and for the companies they work for is bigger than ever before and that's what's so cool about this yeah the world that we live in now SPEAKER_30: it's incredible i mean you just think about the ios ecosystem the fact that you can make this app it SPEAKER_110: goes out to you know whatever a billion ipads and iphones and obviously that's going to make its way onto the desktop eventually and you know the same app will just run everywhere the the counter argument SPEAKER_111: to our apple exerting control with our app store is don't they deserve something for creating and maintaining that ecosystem so if 30 is too much what do you if you were running apple and you made a decision about the app store how what would your decision making be on what to charge and how to SPEAKER_232: charge i'm curious how jeff would solve that problem because they should get something right SPEAKER_124: it's a great question but you also think about choice when you think about choice for end users SPEAKER_133: and you think about choice for developers you know and at some point you do or you are you do run at such big scale that you do have to start to think about like okay well you know there's a de facto monopolies that do start to occur and i think that giving people choice and i think having developers SPEAKER_124: opt into using apple services because they make their apps better they increase customer adoption like SPEAKER_133: that would probably be a better way like if there are payments that are really well integrated and and are so easy because it's one click and a face scan and like you're done if that is such a great SPEAKER_124: experience then fantastic then developers shop to use it because they're in their conversion will go so earn it i think i think in general earning it but i will also say i do applaud some bits of what apple has done a lot of bits of what apple has done to create an ecosystem where there's some uh checks in place so what i just said is like you know a single developer writing into their magical text editor can now affect billions of people well with that great power comes great responsibility spider-man yeah and and i do think that unlike um you know uh unlike some apple has taken that responsibility seriously very seriously when you say some haven't you're obviously referring to SPEAKER_295: facebook we'll get to that yeah you know whatever um and i love you as a guest you're gonna get on SPEAKER_297: this in the second half the last 20 minutes always the best with jeff go ahead SPEAKER_301: i've seen you taking a few sips of a beverage but i i tell you i am not oh that's ginger ale SPEAKER_133: that's ginger ale sure it is jason um the ale part for sure um but i i i think that with great power comes SPEAKER_124: great responsibility and that's why i say this if i invented that phrase i think that like that's why at twilio there's a number of things we're working on so first of all segment segment has only ever dealt in first party data and in the early days of segment like customers asked oh hey can we bring SPEAKER_133: in all this third party data could we bring in all this stuff like we're buying data from and they SPEAKER_124: made a really good decision that was ahead of the time for them which say no we don't think the future is going to look like that and we don't we don't want to be a part of building that future and that SPEAKER_133: was pretty prescient of peter and the team at segment to say we are only going to help you act on and understand your first party data because we fundamentally believe that world of like buying data and data brokers all that kind of stuff is you know first of all not long for this world we think once the world knows about it it'll go away it'll be bad business but also just ethically we don't SPEAKER_120: think that's that's not why we wake up in the morning is to build a company that lets you do that another thing that tolio is working on um and we we uh talked about quite a bit at our conference this week is trusted communications what does it mean and and you know i am looking at a world where when you communicate with somebody you get a text message or a phone call today it's largely you know plus SPEAKER_133: one four one five whatever you know you see this identity you're like do i answer this call is this a scammer a spammer is it my kid's school like i don't know what this is maybe i should answer it SPEAKER_124: you get a text message hey you know this is this is your bank we need to verify your identity for uh you know wire transfer click here you're like is that real how do i know communications uh has historically not provided the information like that that that web of trust to let you know should i trust this and because of that that's why you've got so many robocalls and you've got spoofers and scammers SPEAKER_111: and fishers well in fact this was a criticism of twilio in the early days was that people use the platform because you gave them phone numbers and they could burn through phone numbers and then there was some abuse right and you had to deal with that and that was a hard decision for you because we don't people wanted to pay for the platform and their customers but maybe they were using them in ways that you wouldn't want them to how did you deal with it back in the day and so well what we what we SPEAKER_124: what we did is you know many years ago developed our acceptable use policy and said okay here are the ways in which we want our technology to be used and here are the ways we don't want it to be used and i think as a company you do have the ability to decide what kind of customers you want what kind of use cases you want and you know as long as you've got clear rules and uh you articulate those to customers in your ecosystem that certainly you should be able to decide how your technology is used and and that's what i think is is really important so this world of trusted communications to me is SPEAKER_120: about building more trust into the communication networks of the world now we can't do this alone because there's thousands of carriers in the world there's all these different handsets in the world SPEAKER_124: and so it's a really an ecosystem uh that is that is moving along but you know invoice for example a new protocol called stir shaking that we've helped uh to bring to market along with um the carriers has made it so that phone calls cannot be trusted because they're digitally signed SPEAKER_120: by the company like twilio that is initiating that phone call oh wow a vera sign back in the day like SPEAKER_316: hey this website is legit and we know the address and the business the tax id or something you can David Sacks: attach that to a phone number that's brilliant well well you know before all this you know if you're i don't know verizon and there's an incoming phone call to your network it kind of arrives at SPEAKER_124: your boundary you have no way of knowing if you know the phone number that it says it's coming from is actually true or not because the phone network itself was an untrusted network well i don't know how to say i don't i don't actually know the right way to phrase it it was actually a trusted SPEAKER_133: network if you go way back i'll give you a little history lesson here at&t ran the entire network SPEAKER_124: in the united states yeah right then they got broken up into baby bells and in the in the world where everybody was at&t like to be a participant on the phone network you had to be at&t that was your that was SPEAKER_324: your badge right yeah from them you can only buy a phone from them yeah and all the equipment SPEAKER_247: sitting in the network was 18 i mean everything was 18t and so it was just like well we don't need SPEAKER_133: trust it's trusted by default well yeah of course then it got broken up into the baby bells and then the telecommunications act of 1996 said like oh no we're going to open up this network and they created clex and all this sort of stuff well you still had all this running on top of a network with no trust SPEAKER_124: smuddle and then you start to see all the bad actors popping up and people who drop phone calls on the network and spoofing your phone number jason and everything else and that's why it has gotten SPEAKER_133: so messy and so what we've been working on for the past several years how we bring trust back in that network and to me that looks like when you get a text message from your bank it's got a padlock and instead of saying you know plus one four one five or if it's a short code you know 404 404 whatever it's it says you know your bank and there's that green padlock there that says this is SPEAKER_124: you know assured to be who they say they are and you click that it says you know twilio has verified the identity of the sender right that's how you know you can trust that message and if that padlock is missing that's when you should say well i don't know do i trust this or maybe even your handset just says you know what there's no power block i'm not going to show it to you mm-hmm that's the world that we're building towards where every communication is verified SPEAKER_133: and you know who is sending it you know the authentic and i think that will open the doors for even more interesting things like commerce like buying things over communications much more easily because if everything is authenticated you know that it's safe to do that um and many SPEAKER_124: more interesting ways in which we can use messaging to engage with companies in ways that we did not even SPEAKER_111: imagine possible that was one of my favorite like early twilio experiences i don't know if you remember there was a company that was like doing e-commerce by messaging you'd sign up then they'd be like hey here's a vinyl record that came out this for these three vinyl records are coming this friday do you want any of them and since they knew it was you on your phone number you just say yeah i'll take two SPEAKER_98: or yes to two and then all of a sudden it just shows up the next day and it was completely frictionless i thought it's such a brilliant elegant solution but this is even better i mean if you knew SPEAKER_111: who was calling you then i could just get rid of my j call strategy uh which i'm going to give up for the first time here this is how i deal with it speaker phone i have my phone in my cradle jeff i just hit speaker phone and mute boom now the person starts to hello hello now if it's somebody who's a friend of mine they're calling from a weird number the way jason uh it's joe jason you're there and then i'm just oh yeah sorry i just hit them under the mute button somebody who's uh a SPEAKER_110: spammer when they get the answer but no sound and it's muted they'll talk for like 10 seconds and like oh my god this is a waste of a phone call take this number out of the database so i just j call them i just j call them let's talk about integration isn't that called there used to be a name for SPEAKER_333: that remember you screen your phone calls you the answering machine picks up and you could listen SPEAKER_110: yeah that was actually yeah you know google has that on on my pixel they had that that screening where they say hey we're screen oh it's called wildflower that was the name of the company scott kernett's company i think remember wildflower was like the digital assistant where it'd say hey you're calling for jeff let me see if i can get him on the line and then it would connect it was really cool telephony stuff in the early days let me ask you about integrating these companies SPEAKER_111: because you're building now the singularity right for communications and trusted communications SPEAKER_98: segmenting all these uh it's a great vision but you bought send grid and you buy segment SPEAKER_111: these were not small assets these were big companies with a big customer base and twilio had a big customer base how did you get these three battleships aircraft carriers to become one armada become one product or are they still kind of separate disparate products because that was something you hadn't done before i believe how did you as a ceo figure that out well how did it look like yeah yeah it's a process SPEAKER_301: and these things don't happen overnight right they take a while it starts with people though it really SPEAKER_124: starts with uh bringing folks together as one team and having and building that shared mission because like when you acquire a company they've got their mission we've got ours and when you bring people together what you need to do is start to build that shared understanding of what we're going to do together and every time there's an acquisition right you know there's some there's a press release and the ceos do a little like press tour and they talk about this grand vision and you know from the outside you might say okay well you know that's done nice vision good job guys um but in the reality is like inside the company you you have to go around you have to evangelize you have to talk to to the teams and and you know really sell here's what we're building and then you got to figure out a whole lot of hairy details about how it's going to work and you know it's it sounds good in the press release but the reality is it's like okay now we got you know to integrate uh you know identity systems and billing systems and all systems and even just getting the email to work you know between the the two companies i mean these are just really you know mundane details but it takes teams and a lot of work to go figure out how to do those things and um and so you know you've got that and but the number what the point of really all that so how do i create an environment where now these teams can actually um collaborate and unlocking this vision that we have for the company in the long term SPEAKER_133: and the reason why we're coming together and docking these ships together so you get that buy-in SPEAKER_111: on a people level and then you have to uncover hey how we're going to connect all this stuff together i'm curious you got the big valuation now um you've acquired two companies quite successfully does this make you more bold to want to do more acquisitions or do you look at it having done two big ones and say you know what we got to be very very careful uh with acquisitions be very thoughtful and let's face it prices are sky high right now the valuations are bonkers for these private companies so how are you looking at m a on a go forward basis or do you feel like you have enough here that you should just do what zuckerberg basically has done since instagram and facebook instagram and whatsapp it was like he did those two big ones and he's like yeah just we're going to build features from SPEAKER_124: going forward now we're not buying anything else well look there there is no golden rule i mean i think i don't think you know zuckerberg one day woke up and said i got to acquire something what's it going to be oh instagram right it's like you think about where you're going you think about this mission that you're on and vision for what you're building for us it's building the leading customer engagement platform to help every company build a meaningful relationship with their customers because they understand their customers and they can act on it and when you look around and you see companies out there that are doing things that are very complementary to what you do and you know maybe are doing what you envision yourself doing and you say well you know we could go compete with them but you know maybe it actually would better serve our customers and better serve our our shareholders and everything if we joined forces instead of competed you know that's the sort of analysis that you do and you know the way i think about it is we're we're on a mission we've got a road map we know what we need to do and you know if there was a company you know or companies that help us achieve that mission faster or better or more thorough than than doing it alone then that's a good reason to do it but if we think we can build for our customers and we think we can unlock the value and we don't see folks doing it or we think we can do it better than what's out there today then then we build it and that's the basic calculus and so i don't think there's ever a like we'll never acquire or we must always acquire i think it's a matter of like we know where we want to go and if there are ways to get there faster or better to serve our customers better then those are the SPEAKER_98: reasons why you might do it you you passed on mailchimp obviously that was put on your desk many times SPEAKER_07: over the years uh i'm sure as a possibility what was your thinking there it would seem like it was in some ways it might on the surface seem like an easy purchase but i could see on another thing you kind of have sangrid you've kind of already built it doesn't seem like the hardest technology to build so you'd just be buying a customer base uh what was your thinking with SPEAKER_352: mailchimp well i'm not going to comment on on another company and whether or not we ever saw that but SPEAKER_348: close you've gotten very professional now jeff you're you're super media trained uh i can't get you to talk about milchimp uh i thought you're drinking that ginger ale jason yeah but let's talk about as SPEAKER_98: we as we get ready to wrap here uh you've been very generous with your time as always uh work from home and potentially going back you know it seems like the stuff we've talked about here integrating companies uh it's a lot of work uh and it seems like work that would be well done in an office somewhere you have great buildings and real estate portfolio what's your thinking today at the end of 2021 about going back to an office hybrid i mean it's a bit of a moving target um you know before the pandemic we SPEAKER_124: were a bit of a distributed company about 15 percent of our employees worked um you know remotely SPEAKER_285: meaning they weren't attached to an office and you know now that number is uh you know i don't know the SPEAKER_124: exact number but it's probably closer to 40 or 50 percent even and so we are definitely a distributed company now as i think many companies are and so the question is how do you work as a distributed company we've all figured out how to do that for the past 18 months but i think we're also all seeing that we're humans human collaboration is built upon relationships and it's built upon seeing each other and shaking hands and breaking bread and so the the challenge becomes okay how do we get the productivity of of being distributed and how do we get access to the great talent that we've been able to to to bring into twilio in this distributed fashion and how do we let people live the lives that they want to build and many of those ideas of the lives they want to to live i've changed over the past year and a half and that's great um and then how do we marry that with a strategy where but we still build that human connection with each other so i think what happens is you know we talk to most employees um and this is like up and down the company is like most people think that they want to spend you know a day or two a week at an office you know building those relationships and getting that face time making bread and doing things that are really good for collaboration good for customers good for the business good for careers um but that's probably like a day or two a week and then for teams that are completely distributed i think the offices are basically off-site locations so we just built out two floors in our headquarters that are basically built out as off-site venues because you got a team who's got folks you know distributed around the country and but you know i think quarterly give or take they're going to want to come and get together plan out the next quarter get that face time get break bread together and so can they come to hq can they feel oh i'm part i'm in hq this is exciting for a few days a quarter and we've got this space that's built out just for this type of collaboration then we go home and then next week it's another team there and so i think there's going to be a lot of those types of things but i i will also say that we are optimizing for flexibility because i also think people don't necessarily know what they want and i think we'll all evolve our thinking and so i i do take a little bit with a grain of salt any time we survey employees because i think about most of the conversations that i've had with folks or i introspect my own life and i say do i really know what i'm going to want two years from now yeah i don't think i do and even my thinking has evolved over the course of this summer you know i think at the beginning i was actually feeling pretty comfortable in you know this work from home environment and we kind of feel like we've gotten into our groove okay we know how it works we got all of our setup going we got our lights and our cameras and our whatever and i get to have dinner with my kids and oh this is fantastic and i'll say like you know when we started hitting that 12-month mark and the 15-month mark you know i just really feel like man do i miss my co-workers yeah i miss that facetime do i miss yes because zoom is all it's very transactional you get on to do a thing and then you get off SPEAKER_364: and you miss the time spent doing nothing right off having fun like that's what's lost beginning David Sacks: of the pandemic you know you had the zoom happy hours and all that kind of like that corny quickly SPEAKER_124: right yeah and corny so what have we lost we've lost that connection so you know an interesting thing that we did a few weeks ago at twilio we had an all hands and i just i just told everybody i said look you know in most of our places we can't get back into the offices yet or if you do you have to be masked so it's not that pleasant so i get it we don't want to go back to the offices yet um but if you can safely uh go find another twilion within 50 miles where you are go eat SPEAKER_247: outside go to a park go stay outside do mass whatever you're comfortable with yeah find each other get that face time and expense it to me and i gave everyone a budget to go to go basically you SPEAKER_124: know figure out a way to safely based on wherever they are in the world we've got employees everywhere in the world so wherever they are in the world whatever's safe and whatever the regulations are where they are but go figure out how to safely see your co-workers because we all need a kick in the pants we got to get out and we're in this habit now of like oh yeah what do i do i wake up in the morning i walk downstairs at the end of the day i walk back upstairs it's like we're in this routine now and just like we had to break our routines when we went into this pandemic you know working from home how do we collaborate we're on video all day we now have to break our routines of the pandemic to start forcing ourselves reminding us of the humanity of what it means to build something together to work together and to force ourselves to to get back into that routine and so i think that's the mode that a lot of people are in right now and we need some forcing functions to to come to remind us to get out of our comfort zone that we've now gotten into which is yeah basically work from home most of the time uh to actually remember that building those bridges building SPEAKER_214: those relationships we have to go out of our way to do it but it is worth it yeah it's really SPEAKER_234: interesting you bring that up because i think the mental health crisis in this country and then the SPEAKER_111: isolation people don't realize that they're getting depressed or that they're missing the human connection and it just slowly builds and you know my theory on like when you see this crazy behavior SPEAKER_98: people are yelling at service people are wrestling in the aisles of a southwest flight i kind of think of it like a cpu jeff like somebody's cpu now is that 50 60 anxiety and capacity from covid from SPEAKER_111: isolation and then you know if they have another 20 or 30 percent of their lives got problematic and then all of a sudden spinning wheel of death comes up because they missed their flight or you know something's gone wrong and they short circuit right and the mental health crisis that this is going to create in kids and adults you know you need to meet with folks let's um there's really just two more things i want to talk about like big picture things one is the great resignation getting people to go to work because it seems like a lot of people are reconsidering their entire careers and SPEAKER_98: lives because they stopped commuting they spent more time with their kids they went to tahoe and lived uh you know went skiing four days a week like a lot of people are just not coming back to work or don't want to work differently or maybe work half the amount of time and then i want to talk about just SPEAKER_92: san francisco as a city so which one you want to go with first as we wrap here the great resignation the future of san francisco your your favorite city in the world apparently uh well let's talk SPEAKER_98: about san francisco okay so a lot of people have left uh seems like pretty chaotic in the city uh prices were really high getting people to move here was extraordinarily difficult for all of us in our SPEAKER_111: companies like management teams a lot of people just say i can't afford to live there i can't afford a home SPEAKER_232: what what is your take on what's happening with san francisco you know my my take is this san francisco SPEAKER_124: is my community it's my city it's where my friends are it's where my family is it's where my family's friends are it's where my kids friends are it's where their school is it's it's it's my home yeah and while the pandemic meant that we can work from a variety of places the way i looked at it is SPEAKER_120: look i'm a person of means i have built a company in this city i have made money because of that SPEAKER_124: company that i built in the city and so many people in this city in this community are struggling in this pandemic and as a tech company we are blessed with relevancy our products are relevant customers can use more of them in fact they need our products more than ever that's not true for everybody in our society no so many people are struggling so what do we do in that moment do we say oh i can get out of SPEAKER_133: here and oh and by the way you have a middle finger on the way out and talk about all the problems the SPEAKER_124: city has or do we roll up our sleeves and help and look i get it that a city is a tough place to be during a pandemic there are a lot of folks you know who lived at a bunch of roommates living in a small SPEAKER_120: place because it's expensive crazy um and i get it like if you got to get out because you need to preserve your um you know your mental health you need physical space like all those things great absolutely go take care of yourself do what you have to do i'm not talking about those people i'm SPEAKER_124: talking about the billionaires i'm talking about people with means people who could live comfortably in this pandemic people who could roll up their sleeves and help but instead chose to get out and give a middle finger on the way out and just say look at all these problems you piece of city you know what i say to that yeah when we are blessed with what we have in the tech industry it's our job to say how can i help what can we do to help how can we use our blessings for the benefit of our community because i think companies exist because of a social contract that says the existence of corporations like twilio is a piece of paper filed in the state of delaware right but that's the SPEAKER_133: company right that allows us to you know own property and sign contracts and employ people and SPEAKER_124: all this kind of it's a contract it's a contract it's a construct that society has decided you know what we're better off with this construct or without it fantastic that's the basis of capitalism but you know what if society is actually worse off because companies aren't actually improving their communities and society then society can and probably should revoke that contract and so the question is i've always thought that our existence is true one of the reasons why we exist should be to make our communities and society stronger because we existed and i think great people SPEAKER_133: want to believe in that they want to believe that the fact that we are all here together means that we are doing good for those around us and we're a good neighbor yeah so when i look at what happened during uh the pandemic where there's a whole lot of people um of means who could have rolled up their sleeves SPEAKER_124: and said help but instead just peaced out you know when you wonder why people in san francisco don't like SPEAKER_234: tech you know that's why i mean i i'd say the counter of the argument is cities miss or the counter people would give is hey the city's been really mismanaged and they hated every city is okay this one seemed SPEAKER_111: particularly bad uh that would be their argument and then hey they were hating tech before this before the pandemic i guess would be the counter what do you think the end game here is though because i anecdotally as an angel investor when i talk to young people what would ted lasso David Friedberg: do exactly he'd make sugar cookies for the city make some biscuits and try to make it better i mean David Sacks: that is one of the great things to come out of the pandemic i get it there's a lot of animosity in the city between tech and non-tech yeah we're gonna do it we're gonna feed into it or are we SPEAKER_124: gonna say you know what i get it there's that history but in this moment where tech is is is SPEAKER_120: flourishing and so many are not what's the opportunity to do is it to say you know screw you and i'm out of here or just say okay let's help let's come together let's build the city together SPEAKER_344: going forward and we're going to do what we can do because we have these blessings um i think that's the right way to answer that challenge personally yeah if only we could figure out the housing thing i SPEAKER_98: think so much of the strife in san francisco i've built up unless i've only been here for a decade but man it was just watching people suffer to find a place to live and the prices went from fifteen hundred dollars for a one bedroom all the way up to thirty five hundred and it was like how do how do i even survive they need to build a lot a lot of housing and it's just the nimby in this town is so crazy um all right final question then uh leaves us with the great resignation what are you you anecdotally emotionally spiritually getting from young people you know people who maybe did well and they're 50 and could retire and they're saying you know what i don't know if i want to work anymore they're going through some existential crisis and getting harder to hire people we got 11 million job openings and under five percent unemployment so there's like 1.5 jobs for every person looking for a job we went from this bernie sanders and elizabeth warren saying like oh my god we SPEAKER_111: have to raise the minimum wage to all of a sudden companies paying 18 to 30 an hour and and going three times the minimum wage because the market seems to be uh changing radically that this there's a term the great resignation people don't want to work is this temporary look in your crystal ball and SPEAKER_66: what are you seeing from executives like do you have executives who are like ah don't know if i'm up for it don't know if i can do another decade i think i'm gonna go ski or you know go write poetry what are you SPEAKER_301: well i think in a lot of ways i'll talk about the tech industry because sure you know i don't i don't SPEAKER_124: have as much experience in other industries but in the tech industry people have always had a lot of options for where they work yeah right that's not a new concept nope right you know sometimes people would say well you know people are calling people every day with offered i'm like of course that's tech that's how it's always been so yeah it always will be right and so if you start with the question of why do people work in the first place obviously you have to meet basic needs um and so SPEAKER_120: tech companies and tech jobs are often able to do that and so then you really work because you are able uh you connect with what you're building and who you're building it with right you love the team SPEAKER_124: that you work with you love the customer you're serving and you feel like there's purpose for what you're doing and so i think you know this moment in time it just it still goes back to the fundamentals of why people show up for work when they have many options of things they could do and that is the blessing of workers in the tech industry is do you feel a connection to your co-workers do you feel a connection to your customer you're serving and do you feel a greater sense of purpose are you part of something bigger and so i think for leaders it's really about reinforcing that especially in this moment when connections to our customers is kind of broken connection to our co-workers is kind of broken we need to rebuild those connections and we need to keep reminding ourselves as leaders and our companies our people of like look here's what we're building that's bigger than the the details of our day today that's bigger than any one of uh our teams and what we're doing and bigger than what we're doing this year and connect to that sense of purpose that's why i'm so proud of the things that twilio has gotten to do during this pandemic you know one of the one of the really interesting things SPEAKER_133: that happened this year we committed we created with um twilio.org operation big shot we called it and what we decided our focus for twilio.org was going to be helping a billion people get vaccinated SPEAKER_124: around the world equitably and we're going to do that with our technology we're going to do that with our people we're going to do that with our with our money with our resources and so our technology is used by a wide variety of organizations around the world to educate people about um vaccine to provide the logistics of getting people to the vaccine and getting it to the second getting them to the SPEAKER_285: second shot as well so all those sms's we got about your second shot and all that stuff yep SPEAKER_124: likely powered by twilio that's awesome yeah but we worked with ngos we work with governments we work with private companies we work with healthcare providers we work with a wide variety of folks and so far we've already touched close to 400 million people with our technology and we also gave 18 million dollars to global vaccination so the unicef to gavi uh and some other other organizations to provide equitable vaccine distribution around the world and here's the startling thing twilio and i did not i was really surprised twilio was the second largest private company to contribute to that effort SPEAKER_403: and the largest tech company to contribute to that effort wow that's great leadership SPEAKER_247: i know i was like is everybody gonna hop on this thing we need to vaccinate the world unless we get the epsilon variant and the yeah you know and it's like this is clearly what we need to SPEAKER_124: do for the for the health of human beings for the for the for the survival of human beings um for our own society's functioning yeah aren't we all rolling up our sleeves and like doing committing to our communities and apparently the answer was no and wow so look i would just say to leaders out there we we have to do something bigger than just ourselves we have to do something bigger than just like what any one person is doing or what one team is doing think about the company its purpose the impact it has on communities and the impact it has on society and let's do those things when we do those things i bet our employees are going to be more engaged i bet they're going to recommit to our companies and say yeah this is where i want to spend the next year five years 10 years of my of my life because i feel like i'm contributing something that matters and so i think you know to me it comes out of that and look are are a bunch of folks going to realize there's life changes that they want to make absolutely should people seek the change that they want sure you've got to do what's right for them but i also think as as a leader it's incumbent on plus incumbent upon us to give our people reasons to believe reason to believe that what we're doing is righteous what we're doing is good what we're doing is is going to make us money and allow us to to provide for our families and all that and it's going to allow us to serve our customers but it's also going to benefit the world and we'll be really proud of the time that we spent doing that and i think that is the best reason for people to join a company to stay at a company if they don't feel that to leave the company and that's why you know during the last 12 months um twilio has hired i just saw this stat we have hired over 4 000 people SPEAKER_98: in the last 12 months what wow so two out of three people at twilio or so uh maybe half are joined in SPEAKER_411: the last year yep wow dude that is a pace my lord so it's been a lot of growth it's been a lot of SPEAKER_344: growth and i just think that as leaders you know it's our job to try to create that connection uh between why we're doing things that we're doing and how everybody's impacting that and how it's just SPEAKER_98: bigger than us it's it's such an important point is why i love having our little uh you know check-ins every couple years because i always get inspired when i talk to you and i was just thinking about it SPEAKER_111: somebody's asking like why do you waste your time on these like founder university and like you know teaching people how to be founders or doing like your accelerator like the late stage SPEAKER_98: deals is where you make all your money and i was like yeah that's true but when people come to work every day i was just thinking as you're saying it they all the entire organization gravitates to the earliest we can support a founder that's what my people find the most purpose and it's what SPEAKER_92: i find the most purpose in is when we really help a founder when it's two people in the company not when we put the three million dollars into the 40 person company you know like does that take SPEAKER_98: a lot of work does that take a big vision to you know be the sixth seventh eighth million into a company no to be the first hundred k into a company yeah that takes guts right that that that's where the support comes in and so i appreciate our time together jeff i'll let you get back to the grind uh thanks for all you do uh and uh for the audience you got it there you got your fourth installment of uh the jeff lawson tapes we now have four of these these are going to be because we've had long conversations every time and like we kind of got deep in the end these four are SPEAKER_111: going to become like i always try to make every discussion i have with a with a founder or anybody on the pod the best one like they ever do in their career i hope out of these four there's a good one in there uh i gotta go back and listen have you ever listened to yourself on these old pods SPEAKER_13: i never listen to myself i never do i have an aversion to it but i actually when we do the fifth one i'm gonna listen to the first two again uh all right i'm gonna put it on the calendar right now SPEAKER_92: if you'll uh have us for a fifth one year from now jeff you do your next uh big developer conference we'll do it again thank you jason thanks for having me you're on for the fifth let's do it okay thank you everybody for listening all right uh we'll see you all next time on this week in startups bye-bye SPEAKER_423: uh thanks jeff that was great yeah thank you jason