SPEAKER_00: what did you think about that reservation article thing oh that's crazy well this is a great topic there is a guy a pretty industrious kid it turns out what this kid's been doing is he's been getting

SPEAKER_01: carbone reservations other top tier reservations and by the way everybody's had this as an app

SPEAKER_04: idea nobody's really executed it that well i don't want to give any plugs for any apps right now but he has been selling seventy thousand dollars he's been flipping restaurant reservations

SPEAKER_05: for upwards of a thousand bucks chamath you're very uh industrious and you're absurd tipper 100 tipper minimum i know this because when i paid for dinner one time at carbone you took me and phil helmets cards and you said you guys pay and i'm gonna put the tip in and then i had to sell uber

SPEAKER_06: shares to cover it that was gross that was gross i've never had problem getting a reservation at

SPEAKER_09: any restaurant in new york yeah they see you coming you know what they say 10 dimes worth of wine i have taught many of my friends how to get reservations i have a series of tips that i could give but i don't want to give too many of them away but nobody gives tips to maitre d's anymore sacks you tip the maitre d with cash oh all the time yeah sure of course right see this is why sax and i get along

SPEAKER_12: sax is a legit old school guy yeah sax is elite he's got the hundred dollar bill pressed into his palm

SPEAKER_14: shakes the guy's hand i'll tip the bartender to keep the ice cubes cold and the bartender got a

SPEAKER_26: hundred just for keeping the ice cubes cold there you go oh this is a cno for you this is my tip

SPEAKER_09: it has worked i'm gonna give it out here and the reason i'm giving this out is because y'all are cheap and not you but just a lot of y'all out there and you don't know the art in brooklyn everybody gets tipped we tip the phone guy when he comes to fix your phone at your house everybody gets tipped so here's what i would do and you can do this with a 20 you can do it with a 50. you know if you're going to some great place you can do it with a hundy you fold it twice as chamat says you put it in your palm you walk up to the maitre d stand if there's anybody in line you just cut it and you go to the side of the table you put your hand on the maitre d stand you push the hand over slightly here's the major stand you just slide your hand over and you reveal the 50. and you say i am so sorry i was supposed to make a reservation i don't know if my assistant did it or not she probably didn't however i'm a huge fan of the restaurant if there's anything you could do for me i made a stupid mistake to not make a reservation if somebody cancels i'll be at the bar if there's any way you could accommodate me i truly appreciate only in town for one night

SPEAKER_07: when i say 99 times out of a hundred it works the one time it didn't work how much are you tipping a hundred it used to be 20 when i lived in new york now i regularly do 50. and the reason i do it is

SPEAKER_05: i don't like giving money to charity i feel like these charities are all a giant scam and i like to

David Friedberg: give it to service people like is it awkward when you tip 50 dollars in ones like that like doesn't it

SPEAKER_07: become really sick it's a little harder to hold in your hand i used to use a roll of quarters actually that was awkward the roll of quarters was a little bit hard the 50 is easy i'm just asking everybody here if you hear my voice please go tip your maitre d 20 or 50 and report back if my technique works because what you're doing in the framing is you're saying you made a mistake and then you make it so the person doesn't feel like you're bribing them or paying them off they're helping you solve a problem so anyway it's kind of like when i troll david and i'm like hey freeberg uh with this with the summit whatever and he's like i'll do all the work forget about it you just gotta reframe it all right let's get started here but it is a bribe that is a bribe

SPEAKER_47: yeah it is in fact a bribe yeah i consider it i uh it's interesting you're creating plausible deniability but it's still a bribe i consider it a tip in advance of services no you're not

David Sacks: paying him for good service you're tipping him to basically break the in line yeah you're taking away

SPEAKER_53: somebody else's spot yeah and you're paying him to break the rules you know what your shift

SPEAKER_56: to man of the people it's a bribe brilliant move no but it's a bribe you're a bribe you're not even

SPEAKER_58: really doing him a favor you're doing yourself a favor all right let's unpack you're such a populist brilliant i hate you he just figures out a way to get those populist votes no here's what it is

SPEAKER_63: because i had this argument with my you gave him the 50 just for doing a good job even if you had

SPEAKER_05: the reservation is what i am so confident in how good the service is going to be i'm giving a pre-tip

SPEAKER_53: i consider it a pre-tip oh my god a free tip if he gives you a reservation when you don't have one

SPEAKER_09: i am happy to not get the money back if they can't accommodate me one time it happened the woman at

SPEAKER_05: asia to cuba new york in the 90s said here's your 20 back and she said i'm really sorry there's nothing i can do i would love it's very lovely of you to give me the tip and she handed it back to me and i said keep it and she said no but uh i i got a the bartender's gonna take care of you at the bar so

SPEAKER_60: i hope that ends well all right let's get started everybody we have a full docket for you today and

SPEAKER_05: story of the week as voted by besties we have a new system here instead of me sorting the docket the besties give a thumbs up thumbs down this one i think had two of three people voted for it one person didn't vote this week and that is zuck's scorched earth ai strategy as you probably know if you're in tech meta was the first big tech company to fully embrace open source ai llama leaked last year

SPEAKER_72: folks said that it wasn't leaked it was released covertly or on the slide dl by the folks at meta

SPEAKER_05: but they just released llama 3 and i talked to sandeep about this a whole bunch last week it just came out a few days ago and it's already in the top two models on hugging faces leaderboard you can take a look at hugging faces leaderboard it's basically where uh it's the most trusted place i think where people benchmark these things developers are saying it's faster it's less preachy was an observation than chat gpt4 despite being slightly lower quality they also have some small models that are performing really well they also announced very interestingly open sourcing the quest operating system called meta horizons os the os powers the mixed reality headsets vr all that kind of stuff they are but here's the big news this one is amazing instagram facebook and whatsapp are integrating a search box or their ai assistant chat box into all their apps worth noting meta came out with their results just the other day and we're taping this on thursday as you know it comes out friday

SPEAKER_72: their stock is down as much as 16 after reporting its q1 earnings

SPEAKER_05: they beat estimates but zuck is saying he's going to spend a bucket load of cash on infrastructure it's your alma mater he worked side by side with zuck growing facebook from what 10 20 million to 400 million maus what do you think of his 800 million when i left okay what are your thoughts on gold chain zuck and his new strategy to pivot away from vr to ar ai and going full all in

SPEAKER_78: so to speak on open source they're taking a play that we talked about which makes a ton of sense which is it's not a core market but it's very important the core money-making market for them is monetizing their family of apps and so they're scorching the earth for these new markets so that the economics are not viable which will i think allow a more robust ecosystem where they'll have more of a say because i think up until this point you could have said that they and google were sort of lagging behind open ai but i don't think that's the case and by the way this is the strategy that we talked about 16 months ago that these big companies should take i just think it's worth

SPEAKER_79: listening to what what we said and then basically what zuck said just right now here we go this is a

David Friedberg: black and white flashback chamoff in turtleneck go i think that google will open source their models

Chamath Palihapitiya: because the most important thing that google can do is reinforce the value of search and the best way to do that is to scorch the earth with these models which is to make them widely available and as free as possible that will cause microsoft to have to catch up and that will cause facebook to have to really look in the mirror and decide whether they're going to cap the betting that they've made on ar vr and reallocate very aggressively to ai that should be what facebook does and and the reason is if facebook and google and microsoft have roughly the same capability in the same model there's an element of machine learning called reinforcement learning and specifically it's reinforcement learning from human feedback facebook has an enormous amount of reinforcement learning inside of facebook every click every comment every like every share the huge companies will create the

SPEAKER_78: substrates and i think they'll be forced to scorch the earth and give it away for free now you can see what zuck said last week look at this little victory lap here it's probably also pretty

SPEAKER_86: bad for one institution to have an ai that is way more powerful than everyone else's ai and i kind of think that a world where ai is very widely deployed in a way where it's gotten hardened um progressively over time and is one where all the different systems will be in check yeah in a way that seems like it is fundamentally more healthy to me than one where this is more concentrated that is i think

SPEAKER_12: the definition of scorched earth so and he's he's running a really perfect place so far he's open sourced the headset os he's opening source these models he stopped training i think for llama 35 was it and now he's moved directly to llama 4 just to try to head off gpt 5 at the pass well so what are we seeing we're seeing the economic value getting disintegrated there is no value in foundational models economically so then the question is who can build on top of them the fastest and jason to your point llama was announced last thursday 14 hours later grok actually had that model deployed in the grok cloud so that 100 000 plus developers could start building on it that's why that model is so popular so it puts the closed models on their heels because if you can't both train and deploy iteratively and quickly enough these open source alternatives will win and as a result the economic potential that you have to monetize those models will not be there and what that does is reinforce the existing economic moat that facebook already has in monetizing their apps now why the stock went down i'd like to talk in contrast to tesla a little bit later because this has nothing to do with that it's more about squares versus

SPEAKER_92: sharps in the stock market uh freeberg your thoughts on meta embracing going all in on ai you were at google

SPEAKER_05: your alma mater and you watched them be proprietary and close when it came to search and the search algorithm but open source when they were behind and that's the i guess the phrase we use here in silicon valley when you're behind you use open source to catch up and when you're ahead you close everything down facebook famously shut down all access to their apis you can't get into the social graph but they're going open here why because they're behind your thoughts on this from say a google perspective and then maybe how google might react and then just broadly do you think open source

SPEAKER_98: wins the day getting to agi i would say the analogy for google is android where google open source the android operating system because the handset manufacturers and some of the big software companies so nokia and microsoft in particular blackberry had these closed proprietary operating systems and then the telcos put their apps on and made money and basically had control over whether or not people could access google and google services through their phone so the intention with open sourcing android was to make sure that google was not disadvantaged in their core business over time i think that there's a similar analogy here that by open sourcing these models they limit competition because vcs are no longer going to plow half a billion dollars into a foundational model development company so you limit the commercial interest and the commercial value of foundational models now the capex question is is a really hard one to diagnose because we don't know how they're spending the money where they're spending the money what they're doing in there i think that it's a really an important sign that founder-led companies with these voting rights you know have the ability to make these sorts of hard decisions that it might be very difficult for a management by committee group to make got it look at how mark is making these decisions and elon is making big tough decisions that it would very likely be pushed back on if they didn't have the voting rights if they didn't have the control over the

SPEAKER_100: company that they had it's a great point about founder authority i think that's a really salient point a shout out to za would really be great to get him at the online summit sacks we have some

SPEAKER_05: breaking news here it turns out llama 3 they just tested in the benchmarks it says here you can make the founding fathers any race you like it's a really interesting feature uh any thoughts on facebook's strategy here you are a master strategist david sacks give us your master strategy here 1700 uh

SPEAKER_102: chess rating sex well we we kind of glossed over what the real news was which was that meta released

SPEAKER_104: llama 3 which they had spent billions of dollars creating and in a completely open source way and the testing on llama 3 is that it's comparable to gpt4 and i think this is what chmoth means by scorched earth is that we now have a free model that's as good as best in class best in class or at least tied

David Sacks: for best in class there are some slight differences and we've been playing around with it it is faster and cheaper than using chat gpt4 but the context window is smaller i think it has only an 8 000 token

SPEAKER_104: context window so that's something that the open source community is going to need to work on is you know rolling out foundation models have a bigger context window nonetheless the point is that at least for now until open ai comes out with gpt5 which is supposed to happen soon the open

David Sacks: source community has kind of caught up with the top closed source model which is open ai will they blow past the closed source model sex well i still think that open ai is ahead because the scuttlebutt about

SPEAKER_104: chat gpt5 is that it's amazing and it's a big improvement over gpt4 and supposedly it's going to come out any day week or month so if gpt5 comes out and knocks our socks off in a few weeks then we're going to see that oh they're actually a cycle ahead of the open source community but as of this moment in terms of what's been publicly released i think it's fair to say that open source is largely caught up with open ai and this is why you know bring up this tweet by naveen rao who is a founder who created the company mosaic ml which is sold to databricks or unicorn outcome and he says i don't think everyone has comprehended the massive disruption and distortion that's going to happen in the gen ai market due to llama 3. moats will be destroyed and investments will go to zero just like everything in gen ai this will all happen fast so you know it's a similar reaction to what tamath is saying which is we have a open source model now that erases billions of dollars of private investment and by the way you just

SPEAKER_12: said something really interesting before which is okay there's a limitation right you mentioned the context window which was a problem i just found this thing today they solved it now they're at 96k that's amazing so so to your point sax this market is moving so fast because you cannot compete with open source so all these closed models which means open ai and a bunch of these other folks especially the ones that are sitting inside of these smaller companies right snowflake has a model i think databricks has a model there's a important question that has to be asked around the economic viability of these models in a world where open source is not only better and better funded but they're iterating faster and the feature set is catching up to your needs so the minute that sax says he needs a longer context

SPEAKER_116: window within a week it's there that's pretty intense yeah i think this is like one of the what do you

SPEAKER_118: think jaco well i've got a totally uh different take on this obviously i agree with all you uh

SPEAKER_05: you've said here in terms of the open source and the dramatic effect it's going to have on pricing but there's something people are missing if you go to meta.ai for a second nick and you pull it up what you'll see is they've dedicated the meta.ai url to a search-like experience and then they've put search box at the top of instagram whatsapp and facebook and so they are going to put search engine essentially their modern search engine which is starting from zero in front of

SPEAKER_92: 3 billion people using meta's collection of services and so just like apple and firefox were able to intercept search traffic i think let's make a prediction here that meta is going to get 10 points of the search market now each point of the search market is worth you know what is google's worth about 2 trillion if you take out 500 billion for youtube and their other services you get 1.5 trillion which

SPEAKER_33: means 10 points is worth 50 150 billion in market cap now as you well know chamath and you all know david

SPEAKER_05: these two ad networks meta started with psychographic data the person who they know and then of course google had the greatest advertising product ever intent you type in volvo you type in tesla type in tesla santa monica used you know you don't have to guess what the person is interested in at that moment well for the first time you know one of these ad networks has content data and psychographic and they're going to be able to put it together and i think they take 10 points of search but more importantly they're going to have data on individuals that will be unrivaled in the advertising space now

SPEAKER_04: google tried to do this themselves they did something called google plus i don't know if you were there freeberg during the google plus era they spent billions of dollars on a social network it failed they shut it down because they wanted to get that so looking at this i think man there's so much going on on open source but now google we haven't talked about google's role in all of this and sundar being a hired gun not having founder authority to your point freeberg you know i think they're going after google search business as well as you know taking away and commoditizing all of the open source so we might be sitting here in three or four years watching meta have i don't know 10 nobody nobody

SPEAKER_87: has to search search it's just that google can't afford to lose anything yeah everybody takes a point

SPEAKER_79: here and a point there and all of a sudden google could be in the high 70s of search and that would

SPEAKER_90: be economically disastrous for their stock yeah you're gonna have to make cuts why do you guys think the stock is down why is the stock down 16 i have a theory as to why yeah tell us your theory go for it

SPEAKER_12: i think that there's a few times a quarter where you can really see the dispersion in the stock market

SPEAKER_79: between what i would call the smart money and everybody else so you know using betting language

SPEAKER_12: the sharps and the squares and i think meta was an example of the sharps taking a line which i think is very accurate and tesla was the other great example this quarter and so if you look inside of meta and this freeberg mentioned this earlier i think freeberg what people really reacted negatively to was the total quantum of spending and the idea that it's misallocated not to ai but specifically to nvidia and the reason is that and we've mentioned this before i've tried to talk a lot about this with jonathan ross from grok but ai is really two markets training and inference and inference is going to be a hundred times bigger than training and nvidia is really good at training and very miscast at inference the problem is that right now we need to see a capex build cycle for inference and there are so many cheap and effective solutions grok being one of them but there are many others and i think why the market reacted very negatively was it did not seem that facebook understood that distinction that they were way over spending and trying to allocate a bunch of gpu capacity towards inference that didn't make sense and so i think what people were saying is hold on a second so far your plays are perfect it's everything we want you to do we want you to scorch the earth we want you to open source the headset but we also want you to understand the difference between training and inference in a little bit more of a nuanced way build up the inference capacity but spend a lot less money because you don't need to spend it on nvidia and the reason is the sharps know that nvidia cannot do inference and so i think that's why the stock is down this much and i think it's important for people who care about ai but also may traffic in nvidia to understand why the sharps

SPEAKER_79: think that and i think several of us have tried to explain it now for the last couple of weeks but it is

SPEAKER_05: miscast and so you're overspending up next tesla earnings elon's master plan part two is going well as planned again this was voted up by our panel here in our group chat last time we covered tesla was episode 164 early february after a delaware judge voided elon's pay package since then tesla has made

SPEAKER_92: some giant moves they launched fsd 12 i've been using it it's pretty great also they cut the price of fsd by one third from 12k to 8k i think you can also get it for 100 bucks a month and they announced a 10 rift going to cut 14 000 employees always painful to do that they're looking to reincorporate in texas leaving delaware for obvious reasons earlier this week tesla shares were down more than 40

SPEAKER_04: year to date mostly due to a decrease in demand for evs market caps dropped from 750 billion to 460 billion shares dropped 12 percent when they reported q1 earnings on tuesday investors got excited after elon announced that tesla's new line of models could start production at the end of the year or maybe even early 2025 he shared some thoughts on the robo taxi or cyber cab which he talked about maybe five or six years ago and he has had in the master plan for a long time chamath you made some great calls on

SPEAKER_146: tesla and made some great trades there back in the day your thoughts on tesla in 2024 sharps love it

SPEAKER_12: this is another one sharps versus the squares why did the sharps love it why did it go up and everybody was so confused and i think the answer is that he's actually executing exactly the plan and so if you're investing in a stock what you really want is a ceo to kind of stick to a plan that is well known so we don't have to actually guess what the plan is because he puts it out on the website look at the master plan part 2 and if you start reading down everything that he said he's going to do starting in 2016 is basically what it is so let's take the first part right what did he say in the first part he said hey listen guys this is in 2016 we're going to build a model 3 we're going to build a compact suv the model y we're going to build a new kind of pickup truck okay check check and check then he said oh by the way we're also probably going to have to do a heavy duty truck and a high passenger density urban transport vehicle so that's the robo taxi thing that he's going to announce in august okay check and check and then he talks about the software and the investment in fsd and trying to get to a place where you know you can just have a much higher probability that it will save you from an accident and it'll keep you safe when you're driving your car which will be a large driver of why people want to buy the cars themselves and you can see like these fsd miles so if you're a smart capital allocator what you actually saw was a dislocated stock price what you saw was a plan that by and large he's been executing on at a strategic level underneath there's the vicissitudes what are the vicissitudes sometimes you over hire you need to trim some fat sometimes you overspend on capex now he spent about a billion of of capex this quarter on ai infrastructure so h 100 for training but the market saw through it because that was a reasonable amount of money to spend on training for fsd right so you can start to see the tail of these two reactions the sharps looked at the capital allocation and said okay you missed by two and a half billion this quarter but that's going to create a buying opportunity because we think it's roughly mispriced and we think it's mispriced because going back to this plan for 2016 this is all the things that we've been underwriting from 40 billion dollars of market cap to 750 and now we're getting a 40 discount to buy back in so i

SPEAKER_153: think it's a really interesting moment to just contrast and compare what sharps look at and then what the

SPEAKER_12: media breathlessly exaggerates and i think what they wanted was to lionize the meta earning story but the sharps rejected it and they wanted to dump on elon and the sharps rejected that in size in both cases and it's just a reminder to all of us be very careful what you're reading because if you just took the headlines you would have expected the two reactions to be exactly opposite but when you vote with money it's very clear and unambiguous because you actually move in the direction of accuracy and

SPEAKER_79: that's what the stock market allows you to see and i think this is a really interesting contrast and

SPEAKER_100: compare sharps versus squares here yeah just well recapped uh for those who don't know sharps in gambling are people like are all about friend of the pod who are just the sharpest bettors in

SPEAKER_72: gambling vicissitude that's an unpleasant change in circumstances for those of you who don't know the word sax i don't know if you want to comment i mean you and i are biased in this with the relationship with elon any any thoughts on chamat's take well i'm not going to comment on the stock per

SPEAKER_104: se i mean tesla's products are amazing they seem to be really executing well there and i think that elon foreshadowed on that earnings call what's coming in the future i'm personally really curious about the optimus robot i mean that has the potential to create an entirely new market and bring about something that we've only seen in science fiction so to me that's very interesting i think in terms of the company's problems i think they're mostly dealing with some macro forces so first of all the gdp growth rate has slowed to 1.6 for in q1 so this just came out and that was a notable slowdown relative to expectations so first of all you're dealing with the slowing economy it seems like the second high interest rates mean that car payments are higher if you want to finance the purchase of a car your your car payments is going to be a lot higher when its rates are about five percent and i think that has been a pretty big headwind for tesla and really all the car companies over the last year or so but i would say that i think both of those things are ultimately cyclical and what matters is tesla's products i would say the only issue they have that's a real long-term issue is just the the chinese competition companies like bdy are ramping up production of knockoff products at low prices and so managing the competition with china is probably the only one of these issues that's i think probably a long-term issue for them to deal with let me ask a question

SPEAKER_05: here how do you rank these businesses energy optimus trucking ride sharing energy optimus the robot

SPEAKER_01: trucking ride handling rank those your number one or two in terms of potential for tesla chama round the

SPEAKER_78: horn it's a good question ride sharing is number one the absolute probably by an order of magnitude and interesting the reason i say that is in order for ride sharing and ride hailing to really work the way that they envision it you will have level five autonomy supported in jurisdictions where again if you just look at part two the whole point is you can summon a car from your app and if you don't have access to a mobile phone you can go to these bus stop equivalents and just press a

SPEAKER_12: button and the car comes to you and so in that world there's just so much value add in terms of passenger safety and sustainability for the environment and less traffic it's a gargantuan game changer meanwhile what's your number two sorry meanwhile and sorry just to contrast uber and lyft seemingly are profitable because they find pricing power to raise prices so if tesla enters in as a third

SPEAKER_79: player in that field and just guts pricing which i think would make sense for them to do i think this thing is just gangbusters nuclear that's a really interesting point what do you

SPEAKER_104: got sax going around the horn here well i already said optimist but that's based on a long-term view

SPEAKER_169: yeah this is a long-term question based on the long term one and two in the long term in terms of

SPEAKER_104: option value i am the most intrigued by the robot play and elon has pointed out that once you have robots that are capable of doing lots of different jobs pretty much any job you point them at that we could have more robots on earth than humans so it's it's a big future market so you got optimist

SPEAKER_169: number one and who is number two i agree with jimoth in the short term that ride sharing could really

SPEAKER_104: reach its its logical conclusion with with robo taxis remember when you know uber first gained steam and

David Sacks: people were speculating about how big the market could be there was a lot of giddy talk about how car ownership would change and you wouldn't need to buy a car anymore because you would just

SPEAKER_173: like use uber all the time we called it going full uber yeah yeah and i actually i went full uber

SPEAKER_174: or i shouldn't say full i went mostly uber like within a couple of years of discovering that product

David Sacks: yeah so i thought the potential was there but the problem is it was just too expensive i mean uber is still quite expensive and the most expensive piece of it is the human driving the car it's all that labor cost so if you're able to charge for the ride purely based on fractionalizing the capex and that capex isn't even that high because they're making these robo taxis pretty cheaply now and you're able to get so much more utilization out of a car exactly right because i mean how many hours a day do you drive

SPEAKER_124: your own car like an hour maybe less robo taxi 90 i think is the number uh on average that they're

SPEAKER_98: not used freeberg who's your one and two i think the optimus has the highest alpha but the highest beta so you know more upside than anything else just unclear how you get there what the path is and the capital requirements and i think there's going to be a lot of commoditization in this space but the ride sharing is built in it's low beta and significant alpha so so you're one and two

SPEAKER_92: optimus right here yeah optimus ride share what was your number two again just so i can recap here i would actually probably pick energy and why would you pick energy as your number two after ride

SPEAKER_12: hailing i think it's a pretty obvious disruption if so today in america if you look at the energy infrastructure the utilities keep raising rates and they keep raising rates independent of what it costs to generate energy there are 1700 utilities in america they are by law obligated to spend i think in the next 10 years about 2 trillion on capex they will pass all of those costs plus a margin to consumers even though in these next 10 years the cost of generating an incremental unit of energy will be essentially free so i think the very disruptive play is to take a hundred million homes and make them mini utilities same and what does it mean make them utilities you go to a website again the biggest investment i've made is in a company called palmetto they are close to now the largest residential solar business in the united states if not the largest already now what what do they do you're a consumer you can go and lease or buy it doesn't really matter and we give you a super cheap system that goes on top of your roof plus a battery system and all of a sudden you're totally resilient and independent of the utilities and we help change the laws so that every time you have excess energy you can put it back into the grid and get paid which is called net metering so if you have a hundred million of these mini utilities competing against 1700 incumbents that are forced to make huge investments and are mispriced that's a an upheaval of an enormous amount of market cap but also an enormous amount of debt there's like trillions of dollars of debt so i've always thought a ginormous directional bet to make would be to go along the disruptor the person that helps arm the rebels in this case would be the person that arms a hundred million homes and then eventually at some point just short the debt of these utilities because they won't be able to service them if enough people quit and don't need pg and e and everybody else it'll be just massively massively disruptive so that's why i think that that market could be big i like the optimist market the only thing that i'll say is in my experience when i've looked at these generalized robots the conclusion that i came to and i could be totally wrong is i suspect instead of having a generalized robot you have very specific use case robots that look differently so for example there's an example nick you can throw a picture but there's something called intuitive surgical which is essentially a robot that operates on you and if you look at that it doesn't look anything like what you would think a robot would look like it just looks like a ginormous machine and so i suspect that there will be people that become experts in these vertical use cases and that will limit the tam for a generalized approach i could be totally wrong but that's sort of why i ranked them the way i ranked them but i'm pretty convinced that robotaxis are number one and and then this energy thing that upends these 1700 utilities in america is number two

David Sacks: all right jay cal you are the third investor in uber are you worried about your investment as i

SPEAKER_05: understand that you still haven't sold have you i've sold slightly more than the majority of my holdings over the years to private transactions and then i held everything post going public and uh i'm still long uber i i give number one to optimus by far and away because i think the build of materials on optimus could be 10k or less i looked at some of these other startups that are in the space and i've been studying it a little bit just out of curiosity and so at a 10k bomb i think they could rent you one

SPEAKER_04: of these for 300 a month or something like that a subscription i think every human on planet earth eventually will have a robot so i know that's crazy but i think optimus will dwarf the entire entirety of tesla's other businesses number two is energy clearly i think and number three is ride hailing number two energy fairly obvious what's happening here if you look at what's happening with data centers it's spiked i think from like three or four percent of energy now to like is it

SPEAKER_01: fifteen percent chamath i think we had a discussion it's almost it's almost it's i think it's eighteen

SPEAKER_191: percent it's almost twenty percent it's a huge number now okay so we don't tell the two stories

SPEAKER_01: together these h100s are beasts cooling beasts this is like you can't even phil deutsch was telling us

SPEAKER_04: in the group chat like you can't even cool some of these places and what that means is there's going to be demand for energy to chamat's point if each home becomes a little provider you know it's going

SPEAKER_01: to create some regulation change i believe i'm no expert on the regulations we should definitely have deutsche on the pod at some point to talk about this but imagine these um like in texas they keep

SPEAKER_92: having the grids go down and in australia they have the grids go down it it's going to be so annoying

SPEAKER_71: for consumers to have the grids go down while demand spikes for data centers all the regulations

David Friedberg: are going to get opened up to put batteries and solar everywhere it's also dangerous i mean people

SPEAKER_12: die when these blackouts and outages occur and also like we saw in san carlos here in the bay area nat gas lines explode pg e is responsible for forest fires i mean if you can do your part to basically get off these grids use somebody like palmetto or somebody else and just get solar tesla and be done with it and at least you're not contributing to some of these downstream errors yeah and so i agree

SPEAKER_05: 100 and by the way if you can make money from your solar and your batteries and somebody else picks up the cost of installation i think there's some arbitrage here chamath to be had and i think that's like what you discovered when you did your first principle approach to this so i think those two businesses will be far bigger than anything else they're doing now on ride hailing i'm using fsd12 i have been using autopilot i was one of the first users of autopilot you know from the beginning like literally and fsd12 is a significant improvement that being said all of these systems work really well in a

SPEAKER_01: controlled grid like we've seen with waymo in arizona and in you know limited parts of los angeles and san francisco i think that vision is five six seven years out from having low single digit percentages and you may have seen uber has incorporated waymo and the taxis in london into their system i think uber is ultimately going to be the place people go to call up one of 20 different self-driving i think a lot of people are going to get there at the same time wouldn't be surprised if elon gets there first but i think that's five or ten years out if i'm being totally honest you know in terms of getting to scale so i would never ever bet against elon seeing what he's done

David Sacks: watching wait a second when are you saying that self-driving will be good enough to power just one

SPEAKER_178: robo taxi let's just forget about the scale just like when will it be good enough to have like a

SPEAKER_05: steering wheel free car yeah so if you you can just look at cruise and waymo and you can have your answer which is today in a contained environment with remote drivers intervening on some regular basis it works so people are taking waymo san francisco la on a pretty regular basis cruise i think got kicked out of san francisco but if in the cruise data there was a lot of interventions going on i

SPEAKER_78: suspect waymo's doing a lot of interventions so i think i don't want to be a proponent of this by the

SPEAKER_12: way but bleep out his name was saying that jason with fsd they're very strict that you have to be

SPEAKER_78: holding the steering wheel and stuff yes but you can go to alibaba and buy something that hacks that right it's a weight a lot of people i'm not promoting that i'm not no no no no no no no i'm not

SPEAKER_05: promoting this i'm just saying that it's so anyways to answer your question sax i think today or let's just say by the end of this year an fsd12 could be operating in a constrained space just like waymo is now to get it to all regions back roads you know whether there's a lot of edge cases

SPEAKER_01: here so i think to the more important question is when can automated be five percent of rights or ten percent of rights and i think that's five or ten years from now i do think a couple of people

SPEAKER_104: will reach that moment at the same time well let me show you a video this is one of my co-workers at craft took this this wasn't me but he was riding in the back of one of these robo taxis i think this is san francisco or new york i'm not sure which one but there is no one in yeah

SPEAKER_01: the driver's seat yeah but there's a safety driver watching this remote i believe which is what cruz was doing and then when they get to a point where they can't figure it out the human comes

SPEAKER_217: in intervenes i don't see a safety driver where's the safety driver no no see a remote safety driver

SPEAKER_12: remote remote but i have to say watching this video that is the coolest bloody thing i mean

SPEAKER_219: yeah this is amazing i'll be honest like i think it's underrated in terms of how significant this is

David Sacks: going to be too yeah look if this is a jaguar look at that it's a jaguar yeah so you're telling me that tesla is not going to have something at least as good as this better soon yeah i think they they have

SPEAKER_04: it already if you drive fsd12 i believe fsd12 probably could be working today in san francisco under a controlled grid with the remote drivers like the other people have if somebody knows about this by the way can they send us information i'm jason at calacanis.com for life just send me a picture i'll keep it on the dl i will reveal sources of who these remote drivers are what their setup looks

SPEAKER_01: like i i'm very curious to understand how the remote drivers work for waymo and cruise can they

SPEAKER_71: park the car they can take the car with a joystick is my understanding and move it around a garbage can

SPEAKER_05: in the middle of the street jamal wow and that might be the future of this like let's say 10 or 15 let's say 10 of the time it needs an intervention one an hour two an hour having some remote person in manila wherever watching 10 videos concurrently and looking for moments to do this it's incredible cruise workers intervened to help the company's cars every 2.5 to 5 miles according to a new york times article all right and just if we uh score everybody's rating here i give two points for first place one point for second place optimist got six points ride hailing four energy two tracking zero

SPEAKER_149: they have it folks there's your scores from the besties what is waymo what is that is that like

SPEAKER_118: google that's google self-driving they spun it out but what what is it is it like 150 000 cars uh-huh and but it competes with cruise yeah they're doing what cruise did it was the original

SPEAKER_97: self-driving car company that google set up and then they they set up google x around it and i just

SPEAKER_12: explain to me the market guys i'm not sure i get it so there's wait waymo and cruise yeah there's waymo and cruise which are like there's no drivers and then there's uber and lyft where there are drivers

SPEAKER_235: yeah that's the basic right does that yeah that's right yeah yeah okay and there's also aurora

SPEAKER_92: does i don't know if uber has owns a percentage of that or not but i think you know about aurora

SPEAKER_231: aurora was set up by chris urmson he was the original engineering lead on waymo inside of google

SPEAKER_98: when they did a management change over there was a big falling out a lot of people ended up leaving the waymo program chris left took a bunch of people with him and started aurora which was basically software to do autonomous driving that they were then going to license into oems so that company got backed by a bunch of vcs and ended up going public via spac and it's publicly traded today ah i see uber owns 26

SPEAKER_71: of aurora or actually now it's down to 20 there's also zooks they made an investment in it yeah there's

SPEAKER_228: also zooks which is part of amazon so i think there's about 10 people who are going to get to the finish line at the same time and it's going to be a very crowded space again some of these guys are

SPEAKER_98: trying to make software for oems so that the oems don't have to build their own autonomous platform and some of them are trying to make a driving service like waymo and then some of them are like tesla has a driving car they actually sell cars so different models yeah so they're all going to

SPEAKER_242: convert yeah i actually disagree that there's going to be 20 or 30 of these because i actually think that

David Sacks: self-driving is really really hard and we know that tesla has been spending years getting to this

SPEAKER_104: point and then google as well so i'm not sure why there'd be more than two or three companies that can

SPEAKER_01: do self-driving there are 10 or more pursuing it i do agree it goes down to four or five and then it's a question of does any is it a winner take all winner take most and that's what remains to be seen

SPEAKER_104: but i mean you need a ton of data to make it work and you need a lot of data around edge cases and so the advantage tesla has is they actually have real cars on the road they have real cars on the road

David Sacks: with real driver minutes and with drivers using the previous version of fsd and making interventions so they're constantly getting better i think google seems to be putting enough resources into this to get somewhere but i don't think a lot of companies are going to figure this out i think it's going to be

SPEAKER_104: somewhere between one and three companies figure this out well waymo has the most on the road right

SPEAKER_100: now and then cruises second to them in terms of in market so the question is how quickly can elon get

SPEAKER_128: this out have you guys any of you guys taken one of these robo taxis i haven't taken one uh well

SPEAKER_252: that's one of my co-workers yeah we gotta have you taken one yeah they're cool they just move around you did take one yeah they're okay they're all over the city you can take them in san francisco now

SPEAKER_255: yeah you have to download the waymo app yeah and there's like a wait list and then you get on it and you know they're letting people on and then you just get on it and go for a ride pretty cool by

SPEAKER_104: the way someone tweeted something kind of funny they said you know it took uber years and years

SPEAKER_102: and like a trillion dollars to finally get to profitability and now they're about to get

SPEAKER_258: disrupted by robo taxis this is brutal unlikely i think unlikely i think it's going to be a very slow

SPEAKER_158: rollout you know one or two percent a year so but you know it compounds and so we'll see all right

SPEAKER_01: everybody is this a big win for lena khan the ftc just banned non-competes three of three people voted this up of the three besties who decided to vote on the docket federal trade commission this week voted by a three to two margin to ban non-competes to give you a sense of the impact here estimated of 18 percent of the total u.s workforce are covered in some way by non-competes 30 million people

SPEAKER_05: the ruling bans agreements entirely and requires companies to let their staff know that non-competes

SPEAKER_118: are non-enforceable there are a few exceptions like existing non-competes for senior level executives

SPEAKER_05: i'm guessing when you buy a company you can get somebody to non-compete for buying their company the democratic ftc commissioner rebecca slaughter called non-competes unfree and unfair one of the dissenting commissioners republican andrew ferguson said the ftc lacked authority from congress to make this ruling without specifying whether or not he agreed with it theoretically the new rule takes effect in 120 days wow we're on a fast timeline after which the vast majority of existing non-competes will be unenforceable here in california they're not enforceable as we know except under certain

SPEAKER_72: circumstances so this is really an east coast thing people in boston new york they're really affected by this and people will actually enforce these for things as silly as hairdressers there was a big lawsuit by hairdressers who had to sign like 50 mile non-competes with their beauty salons the u.s

SPEAKER_01: chamber of commerce says it plans to follow suit over the ruling ftc says the rule will create 8 500 new startups a year because people can leave and compete friedberg your thoughts in california non-competes

SPEAKER_98: are not enforceable but outside of california they are and they're often used like in the agriculture industry in the ag inputs industry where folks are developing new technology mostly at companies based in the midwest and east coast as you guys know in financial services as well they're often used that if you work for one company because you have a lot of trade secrets you can't carry them over to others but in silicon valley we're very used to engineers product managers executives taking all of the knowledge and capabilities that they've developed at one business and leveraging that into a new role it creates a dynamically competitive marketplace it also inflates obviously costs because you're willing to pay more for someone who's worked directly at a competitor and has deep knowledge but they are bringing ip often and there is you know a real risk that they take something from your company that you've invested in them to understand then they take it to your competitor so i i see both sides of this i think non-competes give companies the ability to invest in employees and feel confident that the knowledge and information and support they're providing to those employees doesn't ultimately find its way over to a competitor and it gives you a rationale for paying more to your employees it actually inflates salaries if i'm fearful that someone might leave and take knowledge with them i'm going to share less with the employee i'm going to pay them less so i could see this going both ways i'm really fairly torn on this issue to be honest i don't know what the right answer is or if there really is a strong kind of ethical case one way or the other i think that non-competes can both benefit and hurt employees and benefit and hurt companies yes there are unintended consequences

SPEAKER_262: where do you stand on this is this a huge win for lena khan neutral or a loss i don't see non-competes

SPEAKER_78: having any value in any market except east coast financial markets i've heard of folks getting

SPEAKER_12: something called beach leave typically in finance these are wall street jobs hedge fund jobs so i know it exists there what does it mean beach leave like if you leave hedge fund a and you're going to go to hedge fund b they make you sit on ice for six months or nine months garden leave i think maybe they call it and the whole idea is that you don't take any active market thoughts to your next

SPEAKER_78: job for what for what freeberg said i just think the whole thing doesn't make much sense i mean like

SPEAKER_12: intellectual property is the least valuable it's ever been right more people develop things now via trade secret then patents the whole patent system has become a little bit of a game we just talked about open source right they have less and less value so innovation is happening in plain sight and so i don't think companies are actually thinking about this issue at all anymore they're paying people because they need to pay more to get the best and brightest so i think if you're hoping to rely on one of these agreements if you're an employer i think that you should just forget about them and just hire the best people pay them the best and if they suck fire them did you ever see that movie

SPEAKER_98: spanish prisoner starring steve martin is there yeah great film god wow let's deep pull steve martin plays the con man that goes to this guy and the guy is like a chemical engineer campbell scott is the guy's name the actor and he has like a process for making a chemical and it's worth so much money and the whole movie is steve martin conning him into telling him the chemical process and eventually he took it he was going to give him all this money hire him and then he disappeared once he got the knowledge and that was the end of it it's a great great film shout out david mammon david mammon exactly yeah fantastic but i think there's a lot of investment that goes into intellectual property businesses that include things like chemical engineering obviously financial services trading companies algos in hedge funds and a lot in software that if you can access that intellectual property without stealing it but actually hiring an employee that has it in their head

SPEAKER_272: uh you gain quite a lot but you can do that now i don't see it actually doing anything bad so i have

SPEAKER_98: had a lot of folks that i know in other industries outside of tech or software where california non competes are not enforceable that aren't allowed to go work at a competitor for one year two years three

SPEAKER_12: years no no i'm not disputing that it doesn't exist i'm saying where do you see it actually having negative repercussions in california the point of the fact that it doesn't exist here is also

SPEAKER_274: seemingly that it doesn't mean anything yeah but the rate of change here is crazy like the rate at

SPEAKER_98: which software changes i think is quite distinct from the rate at which for example a chemical engineering process might change where you learn that process you spend 200 million dollars building a system and then that that employee can go and tell it to someone else and suddenly changes everything about that other business so i i don't know i feel like there's something about california software that gives us this this point of view that maybe it doesn't matter but in other industries

SPEAKER_12: it might in that example you'd still need to have come up with hundreds of millions of capex to implement it whatever you know yeah so sacks any thoughts i just don't think these things mean

SPEAKER_104: anything yeah do you care about non-compete sacks i think one of the reasons why the tech industry moves so fast and innovates so well is because of the happy coincidence that california doesn't allow non-competes and so the industry's never had them and as a result of that like you're saying

David Sacks: the talent just flows freely to wherever the opportunity is and you have this dynamic in tech where the vcs and the talent all swarm the biggest and best opportunities and the newest platforms in a completely decentralized way and there's no little or no friction in doing that if you were to impose non-competes on all of the talent there's going to be enormous delays and friction and them moving around to pursue opportunities and so i think it's been very beneficial to the industry as a whole that we don't have that now it's hard for me to speak to other industries but i think that if you're looking to maximize the pace of innovation you wouldn't have these employee non-compete so on that level i kind of agree with what lena khan's done that being said i do think the republicans point was well taken in the sense that this was very aggressive rulemaking i mean i think you could legitimately argue that a change this big should be made by congress but i

SPEAKER_264: tend to think this is probably a positive change i think this is great what lena khan's doing and

SPEAKER_69: this is two for two i think her apple action was great i think this is great love to have her at the summit that would be an amazing fireside chat uh so if anybody knows her invite her to the summit

SPEAKER_283: there really is three-way oh and by the way chamoff media business on the east coast also does this and

SPEAKER_92: that's why friend of the pod tucker callson and uh don lemon both of them started shows on the internet

SPEAKER_05: not other networks because they have very tight non-competes and it's pay to play they got paid out their full contracts according to reports and so there is something i think in a middle ground here

SPEAKER_11: chamoff where if you do want somebody to not compete you got to pay to play in other words they're getting

SPEAKER_79: this is what i'm saying it just tends to be examples jason over and over of markets that don't really matter that much relying on these things and markets that are dynamic and add value in humanity just moving past them so it probably makes sense for all of us to just go move past them absolutely 100

SPEAKER_69: this can be great for the economy sacks you're going to say something well just because these agreements

SPEAKER_104: are no longer enforceable doesn't mean that businesses don't have modes it just means you have to look in other places i mean you have to you have to find network effects you have to find data scale effects there's other ways of building a product besides just trade secrets or you know patents is another category where you know the tech industry patents have never really mattered that

David Sacks: much and the only people who are seeking to litigate patents are basically patent trolls losers so

SPEAKER_104: you want to find real durable moats not these like legal arrangements that try to protect your business through you know these these types of contracts that's really well said that's exactly what i was

SPEAKER_06: trying to say that's well said well said team product brand these are the ways to build a great

SPEAKER_104: business not legal and by the way one of the reasons why the industry moves so fast is because best

David Sacks: practices get shared very quickly and one of the ways that happens is that everybody is moving around to different companies i mean what's the average such a good term of employment one or two years and 36 months right and you don't have to worry that if you've got some knowledge in your head that you don't have to worry that if you use it at some new company you're going to violate some trade secret that but the one thing everyone knows not to do is take anything with them

SPEAKER_292: in terms of you know not everybody not lindowski was that his name lewin does that's why it's really

David Sacks: what an idiot oh my god yeah i mean sometimes people do break the rules i mean the rule is you don't take any work product with you you don't take any documents no thumb drives don't bring your old

SPEAKER_297: computer to the new no to the new job don't bring any old code no there are people who violate those

David Sacks: rules and that is definitely breaking the rules but you're allowed to take with you anything in your head and it is one of the ways that best practices sort of become more common you guys know the story

SPEAKER_12: right like steve chen before he started youtube was an engineer at facebook and there was like at one point i remember being in some meeting where i was like oh i think we found an early version of the

SPEAKER_79: youtube code on an old on an old laptop that was a facebook laptop that steve owned so i remember like

SPEAKER_301: the gc was like i think we technically own youtube could you imagine if facebook sued google to get

SPEAKER_05: youtube speaking of startups this is critically important for founders listening if you're working at a company the best practice is if you're going to do a side hustle is to get permission and a waiver from your boss that you're working on that and get a clean machine and you got to go on a clean

SPEAKER_310: machine your machine is being cannot use your work computer your work machine i'm telling you right

SPEAKER_07: now is being monitored every step of the way i had it was not just monitoring it's about it's their

SPEAKER_05: property it's their property and if you type on it especially in this work from home era and you know anyway i had a situation i wouldn't say at which company where a sales executive left the company company went into the crm system downloaded it and he was so dumb he had written plans for his next

SPEAKER_01: employer on his computer and then in his corporate email emailed the database and his plans for the new employer to his yahoo or outlook email oh my god they busted him of course they dropped a legal letter

SPEAKER_05: on him they put a legal letter on the person who's hiring him the person who hired rescinds the offer

SPEAKER_04: obviously they don't want some toxic nonsense and uh yeah the person you know i have no idea what

SPEAKER_12: happened you know there's that very famous email that steve jobs sent to bruce chisholm which goes something along the lines of dear bruce it's come to my attention that apple never recruits from adobe

SPEAKER_90: but it seems like adobe is actively recruiting apple employees one of our practices have to change

SPEAKER_236: you know please let me know who or something like that it's just a phenomenal email yeah they they

SPEAKER_92: this actually resulted in a bunch of legal action a settlement because i think eric schmidt and steve jobs correct me if i'm wrong producers or there was something between google and apple where they

SPEAKER_05: agreed and i think sergey or somebody was yeah sergey got in on this is i don't know if this is legal but they didn't want to piss steve off because it's not the kind of guy you want to piss off because he can execute and eric schmidt was on the board of apple at the time there's a very famous picture of them at the palo uh the the sandhill road or stanford mall having coffee and steve is lit he's not

SPEAKER_04: happy about this and i think they agreed to not poach a certain level or something like that oh there's the famous picture where they were breaking bread and then eric schmidt did android steve felt very betrayed by this and eric schmidt left the board of apple shortly thereafter because steve reportedly

SPEAKER_212: felt like he was double crossed but uh you know all that is speculation so check your own facts any any

SPEAKER_323: you have any other details on that freeberg do you remember that case it was after your time right

SPEAKER_98: i'll tell you a funny story we had a meeting with the exec team from apple when i was at google and marissa mayer and sergey and myself and one other person went to the meeting and marissa's idea was why don't we pitch apple that we could put a cache of the internet in 200 megabytes like the most important 200 megabytes of the internet cache it and put it on the ipod so you could access the internet on the ipod surf the web right basically search search a cached version of the web and that was the pitch and they kind of were like radio silent they didn't respond to the pitch and then they kind of blank faced stared at us two years later the iphone came out i have three amazing steve jobs

SPEAKER_72: stories i'll tell you one of them right now i was the co-founder of a website called engadget which was a large blog in the world we wound up selling the collection of his blogs to aol i was at a conference

SPEAKER_92: steve jobs was there he sees my badge says engadget he goes oh jason engadget my favorite tech blog in the world i read it every day yada yada and i said oh that's great and you know and i said hey can i ask you a question he said yeah sure anything we're out there beautiful view

SPEAKER_05: of the pacific ocean and i said you know steve um i have the ipod i pulled that out of my pocket and it had a color screen and i said to him i said you know it seems to me that i could download

SPEAKER_01: short video clips like of the chapelle show and i use that as an example and they could sell them to me like you're selling mp3s and you could just buy like a chapelle show issue episode pretty

SPEAKER_04: obvious idea and then i could play it when i'm on the subway or something or got some downtime in a cafe i could watch the chapelle show clips could you make a video version of this since it's already got the you know storage in the screen he looked at me said jason do you want to watch a thumbnail size video i said yeah totally fine he said all of our research says nobody wants to watch a tiny video like that it's the worst idea ever and i had this moment of like self-doubt because he had that reality distortion field i go back i tell my guys what he said and hey should we write a story

SPEAKER_146: about it and uh 30 days later he releases the video and the ability to watch videos on it he had the greatest poker face ever it was just an incredible moment man i really miss that guy what

SPEAKER_06: a incredible what an incredible three doing a walk down memory lane of our steve jobs stories do you have one i have two but give us one come on these are great people loved by the way the

SPEAKER_93: segment when we went on when i when i worked at winamp my boss when when it was merged into aol to create

SPEAKER_78: aol music was this guy kevin conroy great guy i remember him and kevin basically got us runway to launch a 99 cent music download store and we were able to use aol's cards on file so there was like 25 or 30 million credit cards and we were able to use warner brothers music library because aol had merged with time warner and so we launched this 99 cent music store and it performed phenomenally and i went and i did demos for walt mossberg to kara i went to apple i showed james higa idq steve jobs all these guys and aol just couldn't do anything with the data we kept pushing kevin kept pushing but they were just so tied up in their own political nonsense they wouldn't green light it becoming more than a beta and then nine months later the 99 cent download store launched on itunes and i was just like oh my god this is execution and they had all the labels and it was a thousand times better experience and we created but it was the first time where i stumbled into something relatively accidentally and just got frankly owned by an organization that's just a thousand times better sacks you ever meet steve

SPEAKER_98: jobs in person no freeberg uh yeah i met him at mac world in 2003 he was walking the floor it was at moscone i remember it because i've been a mac user since 1984 first mac original i still have it in my office die hard die hard mac fan i read every edition of mac world mac user mac week and so to meet him

SPEAKER_255: on the floor walking around i was just like like a 22 year old kid i was freaking out it was awesome

SPEAKER_344: only time i met him he was the greatest he was the absolute greatest i have one other story but i'm not

SPEAKER_06: going to share it you know you know what segment people love last week i interviewed with him for a job what oh come on you can't not tell that story right when i left facebook people love the story

SPEAKER_92: last week when we did our childhood uh businesses i want to hear the story come on come on you give us

SPEAKER_118: one more i'll give you one that's recorded on video it's like so littered with my failures and my

SPEAKER_79: insecurities but okay that's why we want to hear it yeah that's why we want to hear it successful be

SPEAKER_02: self-deprecating share with your brothers there was basically somebody at a well-known recruiting

SPEAKER_78: firm who pinged me and said hey there could be a consult this is right when i was leaving facebook

SPEAKER_12: and i had a pretty large project that never saw the light of day which was this facebook phone

SPEAKER_191: although people in the ecosystem knew that we were working on it so you know samsung and intel were

SPEAKER_12: our partners at t and all this stuff anyways long story short there was a rumor that they wanted to

SPEAKER_78: consolidate iphone into one business unit right and at the time it was kind of like very balkanized or whatever and i got approached by a recruiter saying they're thinking of creating a role which is kind of like head of iphone and at that point i was like this is in 2011. and i was adamant that i would never work for anybody until i heard it was steve jobs and i was like i will do whatever he

SPEAKER_47: says whatever job dude i would have driven his car i would have yes i would have driven that car i was driving miss daisy oh steve jobs you're my best friend and i went through a couple of

SPEAKER_12: interviews i'm not going to get into those details and at the end of it it was like well

SPEAKER_78: he's not going to become he's not going to be the ceo you know he's going to become executive chairman and so you'll be reporting to tim cook and that's where that process died they said i wasn't a good cultural fit for apple in the new era now and then it turned out what happened yeah you would

David Friedberg: stop forestall laughed i was not a good culture i would not have been a good cultural fit for that he wanted radicals and tim cook wanted you know optimizers yeah so then i went and i started social

SPEAKER_12: capital but that was my only job interview that i had when i was leaving facebook and it was for me i had the same reaction as freeberg i was like a kid meeting his i don't even want to call it idol like i think i was like a believer meeting jesus that's how it felt i will uh i will save my um

SPEAKER_72: just to get this uh we got to get through two more stories in the doc and i'm going to leave my other steve jobs stories for another time we got time you have that famous clip of you asking him that question

SPEAKER_12: where you basically was looking at you like that's a very famous one because that that you you really

SPEAKER_369: got the better of him i thought which is pretty good all right all right will you uh help companies like ours uh sell podcasts you know be an audible so if we wanted to sell a podcast through your service

SPEAKER_371: would you uh help us do the fulfillment um you know we're planning on having all the podcasts be free at first but uh zing me an email with what you've got in mind and we're open to anything same email

SPEAKER_373: i always send it to you yep okay so strong i mean i gotta give it to you jake all you have balls

SPEAKER_92: i mean the truth is i traded emails with steve many times he he was with the press he was full

SPEAKER_05: contact as you know all right it's time it's time for sax red meat and we've got a double serving for sax sax stands are going to be really happy right now tick tocks divestor ban bill has been signed into law senate passed the bill 79 to 18 we've talked about this year over and over and over again president signed it this thing's uh on the fast track divest or shut down tick tock bill was packaged bundled with 95 billion dollars in foreign aid 61 billion for the ukraine ukraine ukraine 26.4 billion for israel and human humanitarian aid for civilians in gaza and about 8 billion for the indo-pacific region aka taiwan house added a provision to the bill that required the president to seek a 10

SPEAKER_04: billion dollar repayment from ukraine's government finally they're talking about the lease back we'll see if that ever happens i'm curious what sax thinks there last year cnbc reported that bite dance was buying back 5 billion worth of stock and early thursday morning it was reported that bite dance is exploring selling a majority stake in tick tock's u.s business looks like gun to the head is working to a non-tech company without the algorithm in other words maybe they sell it to a walmart somebody who they don't consider super competitive i'm not sure who the non-tech company

SPEAKER_01: is here could be disney would come to mind as well and remember disney did look at buying twitter but

SPEAKER_04: they didn't want the toxicity of an open platform uh tick tock is obviously heavily scrubbed of anything that is aggressive you can't show a movie clip with somebody getting attacked violently it's very pg-13

SPEAKER_05: but this is the key part sax no algorithm in the package deal your thoughts on this and you can take it either way you like because i know your fans want to hear about everything do you want to talk the the budget bundling or the tick tock ban which and the divestiture which seems to be happening well

SPEAKER_104: the overall theme is just that the national security state got everything it wanted it got 100 billion for to support forever wars it got a tick tock ban and this divestiture thing is a total fig leaf because it's not clear that china is going to allow tick tock to divest because it would set a horrible precedent where the u.s could just pass a law and then essentially steal the value of a chinese company so i don't think they're gonna be able to divest i think they're just going to get shut down

David Sacks: so the security state's getting its wish there and then another bill that you didn't mention which they just passed is they approved the warrantless spying on americans so the federal government can now spy on you and your you know communications without even getting a warrant ridiculous so disgusting the national security state just seems to get whatever it wants and there were large bipartisan majorities for all of this and the way they do it is they conjure all these fears to try and fear us into well if we don't agree to warrantless spying then you can get a terrorist attack well when has a warrant requirement ever gotten in the way of actually doing what we need to do to stop terrorism never but that fear was enough to get congress to authorize that legislation they're keeping us involved in this forever war in ukraine by this fear that putin somehow going to conquer all of europe which i think is total threat inflation and this tick tock fear that somehow what videos we like is like precious data that's being shared with the ccp look i'm willing to believe it's possible but they never proved that oh no they proved that data it's been

SPEAKER_297: proved that now you showed us when we debated this when we debated this yeah you showed one article from

SPEAKER_223: the new york times yeah about how yeah that's not proof jcal those were two rogue employees who shared

SPEAKER_72: some data with i spoke to some new york times reporters yeah i spoke to multiple tick tock employees myself personally and they told me that the chinese representatives are all over the company and inside of it freeborough you're adults but what was that what was the judicial

David Sacks: process or legislative process to prove that they have hearings they prove that i understand that yeah you know your hearsay in your view is good enough to ban it but i'd actually like my position on banning

SPEAKER_05: thanks for asking is based on reciprocity and the potential damage it could do and based on how

SPEAKER_04: influential and powerful the product is and how they could change sentiment and censorship and the

SPEAKER_05: chinese government is fantastic at censorship and they're doing massive because handling the trade

David Sacks: bill because what we've authorized here is not a tick tock ban it is a sweeping new federal power

SPEAKER_104: to ban foreign adversary controlled applications that's the new category so we have a new category of foreign controlled apps whatever that means and the government can now use it to shut down apps they don't like and i guarantee you i think here's where this goes next i think telegram is next on the hit list you have a russian founder okay you have rumors for years i'd say unproven that somehow telegram's been backdoored by the russian government you know we've all heard those those

SPEAKER_09: rumors it's kind of like the where is his face though isn't it isn't he out of there he's in monaco

SPEAKER_390: or something he doesn't live there no he lives in dubai yeah here's here's what you're going to see

David Sacks: you're going to see at some point you'll see a media campaign they'll be promoting the idea that telegram is used by hamas by terrorists by groups that the u.s doesn't like and that it's backdoored by russia and that it's got some shady investors on its cap table and no politician's going to want to stand up and defend telegram and all the industry money that flows into washington will be promoting this idea that we have to ban it because think about the market share gains that all of telegram's competitors will make and they're the ones wired into dc so this is a foregone conclusion on twitter

SPEAKER_75: you thought this would come to x and to rumble you actually think they'll take this to american

SPEAKER_01: companies i think that that seems like a stretch not really i think that the first step

David Sacks: is you go get telegram because that's easy you know this guy is an agent of putin obviously and anyone who says differently is is themselves an agent of the criminal how does it that's how this rhetoric works so first of all they'll whack telegram and by the way we all know the companies are going to benefit enormously by slurping up that market share and then if biden wins a second term they will eventually set their gun sights on x but look that's a battle because it in x you have a billionaire who has resources who's willing to stand on his hind legs and fight yeah and so they're not going to do that before the election but look if we continue to see more weaponization and more censorship i believe that eventually what they will do is try and push elon to divest x and look all they

SPEAKER_297: got all they got to do listen jake out this this act empowers the attorney general to open an investigation so i think that in a second biden term they will open an investigation and just start ratcheting up

SPEAKER_174: the pressure on elon to get rid of x because that's clearly what they want yeah and the tick tock guys

SPEAKER_264: bought off trump already so he's gonna fight for it freeberg your thoughts i don't agree that i the

SPEAKER_402: chinese government will shut it down i i certainly don't have any insight into what the chinese government is discussing or thinking about doing but there's a lot of money to be made here so if i'm bite dance

SPEAKER_98: i'm very likely gonna hire a bunch of bankers run an auction process and sell this thing and i have a year to do it this is a business that did 14 billion in revenue last year according to a published report 170 million americans are active users of tick tock a revenue grew 40 plus last year so i don't

SPEAKER_402: know how they would just say hey let's write this thing off and and and shut it down when we could

David Sacks: probably generate i'm basing that statement on published reports that china has said they're opposed to the forced sale of tick tock in the u.s and i agree with you that that it might change

SPEAKER_297: but i think about it if you're the chinese government you're adamantly opposed to this you don't like the president and you don't really care you don't really care about tech entrepreneurs getting rich i mean let's assume the the founder ceo of tick tock lives in singapore right so why would

SPEAKER_97: they give us but now let's assume that they let it go through think about the implications morgan

SPEAKER_98: stanley and goldman sachs get hired to run a joint process to auction this thing off right they're gonna run this process for a period of months there's only a certain number of folks that could actually make a bid to buy this thing maybe some of the big guys in private equity silver lake and others try and pull some capital together to buy it but i think it's more likely a big company tries to buy it syphius and antitrust will probably not be as relevant here as it normally would be certainly syphius wouldn't be because it's being completely divested antitrust there's a real question on whether they're going to be given some leeway but even if antitrust does apply who could buy tick

SPEAKER_97: talk in the us there's only a handful of companies that could or or would oracle maybe microsoft

SPEAKER_01: they said it's not a tech is the report that it's not a what not a tech company so that would

SPEAKER_97: be walmart disney you start to get to over maybe a media company right yeah so absolutely i do i do think that there's a really interesting netflix maybe netflix so i think that there's a really

SPEAKER_98: interesting rewrite of the landscape a little bit here where some of the traditional big tech companies meta google have really had total control over the consumer media consumption on the internet that there's going to be a real difference here that might be triggered in how the industry kind of is sorted based on the tick tock auction if it does happen and i think it's probably look we could argue all day about what the chinese are going to do but if it does go through there's next story you're going to see in the wall street journal is how much money the bankers are going to make on fees running the auction here and and then the next story you'll see after that is going to be about how the tech and media landscape had been reshuffled and rewritten by the tick tock deal chamoff paulia patia our chairman

SPEAKER_72: dictator can't wait to see a poker tonight what are your thoughts on this if any i think the thing to

SPEAKER_79: keep in mind is that the reason why the government is banning tick tock and i'm totally speculating and

SPEAKER_78: guessing has nothing to do with these silly little videos but it is that the overwhelming majority of the people that download tick tock keep the microphone on and it is an ambient passive surveillance

SPEAKER_79: device and i think to the extent that a foreign government has access to whatever you hear ambiently and randomly while the app is not even being used is the real problem here and so i think that that's

SPEAKER_78: effectively what this is is the listening device into enough americans and i think that that's pretty scary to folks the second thing is with respect to the actual product itself in the absence of that algorithm which i think is just incredible as somebody who was a voracious user of that app until

SPEAKER_79: i deleted it i don't think the product is much of anything it's probably no better or no worse than shorts or reels or some of these other alternatives so i don't see the economic justification

SPEAKER_12: for anybody who already has one of these assets to buy these things because the content is roughly the same now it is the thing that makes that app is the algo but the videos are everywhere they're on youtube they're on instagram they're everywhere so i don't see why anybody would pay a lot of money

SPEAKER_78: for this especially in the absence of the algorithm this is my honest thought what do you think jake i

SPEAKER_92: think this is um a security risk i've made that clear here before and i don't think we would ever allow iran north korea russia to run any of these companies inside of america nor would they allow us to

SPEAKER_05: run facebook x etc in their countries so i think reciprocity is the key but i am running a little test

SPEAKER_72: right now i posted this video to my tick tock today and uh it's under review they won't let it publish and the video is very simple it quotes a study from reuters you don't have to play it um i'll explain

SPEAKER_92: what i said in it but i just took a video of the reuter study what this reuter study shows you pull up the chart there nick is that in this rucker study the ccp is censoring sensitive topics related to china and so if you want to understand why the ceo who i think you may have worked with before chamath at

SPEAKER_05: facebook the ceo is saying it's a ban when in fact it's a divestiture if you want to understand why

SPEAKER_72: they care about this it's because they want to be able to influence things in america they want to have data on americans it's spyware that's my position and it's the most censored platform i think in america

SPEAKER_04: which i know you feel passionately about sax so i i did this video and uh just like coven 19

SPEAKER_01: was blocked on x here in america in the u.s if you talked about wuhan if you talked about any of these topics our government bandit well if you talk about hong kong if you talk about uyghurs if you talk about

SPEAKER_05: tiananmen square your video will not be posted in fact my video is held right now so if you're hearing my voice right now i'm doing a little experiment i want everybody to post that chart and just read

SPEAKER_92: the wikipedia page maybe talk about tank man talk about the hong kong riots and then use the hashtag don't ban tick tock as a little bit of a cheeky way for us all to track each other's and i want to see if a hundred or a thousand all-in fans post one of these if they all get banned or if we can see any of them so we can do a live censorship test here in america are americans allowed to talk about tiananmen square the hong kong riots uyghurs or any of those things and uh you can also um if you want

SPEAKER_425: have mentioned me i'm at jason calcanis on tiktok so that's my position on it i want to i want to see this thing banned immediately or divest i would prefer it be divested one because i think people love it

SPEAKER_79: one quick thing i think what sac said is really interesting about them then going after telegram

SPEAKER_12: the the big issue that i think telegram has always had is that it is encrypted but it's it has its own form of encryption that they rolled themselves right like typically i think whatsapp and a lot of these other folks just use pretty standard signal i think as well use sha 256 encryption which is like pretty standard but there's always a fear that the u.s government actually can unencrypt that and has some kind of a backdoor that was always the fear of ss256 and so pavel durov and his team basically rolled his own which is also 256-bit symmetric encryption but different standard altogether and what people would say is hold on he has the backdoor to sax's point so that was always the claim counterclaim between these things of why telegram was always painted in more of a sketchy corner i'm not saying that it's true and i think that if they go after it i think it's because this underlying encryption model is something that we can't get access to and so they'd rather

David Sacks: just eliminate it to this access point all right i think telegram can stick its head between its legs and kiss its ass goodbye because they're they're next on the hit list all right we're gonna see what do you think of my don't ban tick tock charity state has has used fears like the one that jacal

SPEAKER_104: explained to get a new power and it's not a power to ban tick tock it's a power to ban any form

SPEAKER_100: controlled app so goodbye telegram what do you think of my uh don't ban tick tock challenge sex

SPEAKER_435: the censorship challenge yeah i mean fine whatever wow you're so passionate about it's done it's over

David Sacks: it's over yeah look the national security state gets whatever it wants it's pretty clear not if we

SPEAKER_33: stay vigilant i mean if we keep talking about how did this warrantless spying thing happen i mean

David Sacks: look i think the warrantless spying is actually even worse than the tick-tock ban me too 100 100

SPEAKER_301: times how are they not required to go to a court to get a warrant that's so easy by the way have we have we eliminated the physical courts entirely we don't need those anymore either they can just do

SPEAKER_63: whatever they want well i think we still have fisa but you don't have to go to the court to get a warrant they can just do whatever they want we need to let's take a deep dive on that in a future

SPEAKER_04: episode because we're running out of time we really want more story to get to let's deep dive it you know listen there's a lot of topics people want us to talk about and this one i think people are talking about a whole bunch it's kind of breaking i haven't couldn't find a wall street journal or a washington post covering this but a lot of people were talking about our next biden's 2025 budget includes some

SPEAKER_92: serious capital gains hikes there are three proposals in the 2025 budget uh we'll put all the links in the show notes to increase cap gains rates as opposed to income cap gains if all three are passed

SPEAKER_05: big if it would more than double the long-term capital gains tax to almost 45 percent important to note this only covers those making 1 million or more a year which is like you know less than one percent of the country way less and so this is definitely a tax the rich idea here currently the

SPEAKER_92: highest long-term capital gains rate is 20 which is really about 24 percent of you earn more than 200

SPEAKER_05: k per year because you have to pay an extra small tax if these proposals become law big if it would create the highest cap gains rate in 100 years here's the chart this comes from americans for tax reform

SPEAKER_01: which was done by a reagan era an ngo i think that was formed by a former reagan administration they basically make politicians sign that they won't increase taxes the budget also proposes a 25

SPEAKER_72: unrealized cap gain tax this would be a tax on total income including unrealized cap gains for all

SPEAKER_11: taxpayers worth over 100 milli okay uh sacks i know this is your red meat there's a lot of pieces here but

SPEAKER_72: gosh this is crushing for those folks who want to vote for biden but are moderates because this is like the number one thing you can do to stop innovation and investment in the country which we desperately need

David Sacks: this is a head scratcher biden is playing a game of chicken with the tech industry and with i'd say suburban voters in general i mean is this what you want at some point you're going to have to say that this is not okay i mean first of all you've got this 25 unrealized gains tax which is a wealth tax if you're somebody who's created a small business or a family farm or you're a tech founder if you get to qualify for the amount then you've got to pay 25 and in order to raise the

SPEAKER_297: money for that 25 you're going to get taxed on let's say you try to sell 25 of the company you're now going to get taxed 45 of that plus 13.3 california so really you're going to sell more like 40 of the company just to pay off this unrealized gains tax and by the way you haven't made a dime yet

SPEAKER_223: you haven't put a dollar in your bank account and that's your one confiscation that's your one

SPEAKER_191: what what happens the following year this is insane insane ah this is this is ridiculous these

David Sacks: things will never pass let me tell you i mean so so this is in biden's budget for next year and this idea this is not the first time we've seen this it was in his original build back better proposal and the only reason that failed is because mansion and cinema voted against it so mansion and cinema are not going to be in the senate next year okay they're not running for reelection so if the democrats have the trifecta if biden wins reelection and holds on to the senate and house but without

SPEAKER_297: mansion and cinema i think you have to price in the strong possibility that this passes i don't think

SPEAKER_458: you can just shrug it off free break your thoughts well we're talking about it here we're not shrugging it off this is like five alarm fire here on x everybody's talking about it free break your thoughts

SPEAKER_98: there was a poll published yesterday bloomberg news morning consult surveyed 4900 registered voters in seven swing states and the poll showed that 77 percent of registered voters in those states support basically an asset tax on ultra high net worth people people worth over 100 million dollars to keep social security intact so i think that's a strong indication of where things are headed generally we can debate the tactics and the nuance of this election cycle but as we all have talked about and know social security becomes de facto bankrupt by 2033 perhaps earlier so we have a few years to figure out whether we cut social security benefits in this country or find alternative ways to fund it and it's pretty evident from this poll that americans are not in support of raising the minimum age from 67 to 69 which is one of the questions in here only 25 of americans support raising the minimum age for social security from 67 to 69 meanwhile 77 strongly support attacks on ultra high

SPEAKER_255: net worth to fund the gap of the funding need well yeah i mean that's a loaded that's a loaded question

David Sacks: because you're basically positioning this tax which is really complicated in the details and the person getting asked the question doesn't understand it compared to the most popular program that the federal government has which is social security so obviously it's going to pull that way i mean look you can you can ask a question in a way on a poll to get whatever answer you want to get to i can basically prove to you that a majority of the american public is either for ukraine funding or against ukraine funding depending on how you ask the question and look yeah obviously taxing people with 100 million dollars of paper wealth is going to be more popular than sacrificing your social security obviously but that

SPEAKER_174: doesn't mean that this is a good proposal economically at all no it doesn't and i don't think that that's

SPEAKER_97: what really matters i think most folks are voting for themselves their particular needs and the majority

SPEAKER_98: of people need more support and this is not even going to save social security i mean you know what is

David Sacks: this this tax going to get us it's going to destroy the startup ecosystem it's not going to balance the budget we're still spending way too much for that it doesn't pay down the debt it doesn't save social

SPEAKER_178: security it's just more and more taxes i think that's the inevitable trend i'm just saying i don't

SPEAKER_98: know how it's going to manifest but i think it's inevitable that we're going to raise federal revenue through some form of taxation that's going to feel deeply uncomfortable and inappropriate and it's going

SPEAKER_255: to have negative economic consequences and this is where the economic spiraling but yeah has talked about

SPEAKER_459: that but biology actually had a brilliant blog post about this called all it takes is all you got

David Sacks: and what he pointed out is he was talking about the federal government's runaway deficits and debt and borrowing and somebody responded to him with this chart that shows assets versus liabilities this guy brent who i guess is a foil on x robology sometimes said oops you only showed one side of the balance sheet balance sheet common mistake though basically saying that balji didn't know what he was talking about because balji was only showing the red which is the government liabilities the government debt and he showed that well no you have to include all the green bars but what are the green bars those are private assets and balji pointed out that no actually you're proving my point because people like you

SPEAKER_297: just see all of the private assets of citizens of the united states as belonging to the government yeah and if you actually extend the red bars to the present value of all the long-term liabilities that this government has it's more like 175 billion so you know people like this see the 160 trillion of private wealth as being on the balance sheet of the federal government and being used to offset the 175 trillion of liabilities in other words all it takes is all you got that's the trajectory we're

SPEAKER_04: on is we have your home your 401k is the government's and we're going to go after your they're going to

SPEAKER_297: absolutely go after your retirement accounts because that's the only way they're going to pay

SPEAKER_467: off these liabilities it's gross spending well there's another there's another great tweet by a guy

David Sacks: who said laptop mercenary i don't know this account but he said something funny he said imagine being

SPEAKER_459: a california high earner options either vote for your own financial liquidation or vote for the orange

SPEAKER_471: man yeah it's bro checkmate dude checkmate you guys just got to put on the red maga hat it's happening

SPEAKER_258: uh here's it i mean i read i read uh i read that you're uh you're all in you don't have to wear

SPEAKER_459: the like you don't have to wear the red maga hat when you go into that polling booth nobody

SPEAKER_283: knows the button you're pushing yeah okay there it is i mean these these are the two worst candidates

SPEAKER_468: in the history jason biden has had biden has had four years to prove that he's a moderate

SPEAKER_297: he's had four years to prove that he represents the normalcy that he promised to us when he first

SPEAKER_468: got elected i mean how much more does it take for you to understand that his policy is radical yeah i

SPEAKER_297: mean he combines the foreign policy of dick cheney with the economic policy of elizabeth warren how much more does it take are you going to vote for your own financial liquidation

SPEAKER_480: because that's what we're talking about it's the worst two candidates and i think i'm voting for the third oh an rfk endorsement wow i didn't i didn't see that i think i just have to put in the protest vote

SPEAKER_102: of rfk or rfk i think he's a great vote yeah for democrats i mean crazy i think maybe i go after

SPEAKER_04: the rock but uh yeah congratulations on biden on making this easy for trump with his build back broke

SPEAKER_47: plan so dumb all right everybody this is the world's greatest podcast by the way jason if you do decide

SPEAKER_78: in the end to vote for biden i'll send you some luxury tents that you and your kids could sleep in

SPEAKER_47: you can tell them stories about how you voted for him it's so brutal i mean the worst two candidates

SPEAKER_454: of our lifetime jacal here here are your choices okay you can vote for trump or you can give up this

SPEAKER_92: the uh ski lodge what's it gonna be i mean at this point i think i'm rfk all the way i think i gotta go for just try to support independence i just think we gotta balance the budget shout out david

SPEAKER_418: friedberg for the rain man himself david sacks yeah david friedberg the sultan of science we didn't get to

SPEAKER_01: science corner this week we're gonna start with it next week and the chairman dictator chamath palihapitiya i am world's greatest moderator of the number one podcast in the world i'm manifesting can we get to spielberg i'm manifesting tracking here and take us out spielberg young spielberg baby coming at you

SPEAKER_491: z100 buddy love your voice bye bye welcome everybody to episode 175 that's right it's episode

SPEAKER_493: is that the largest most listened to podcast in the world i'm manifesting

SPEAKER_504: no it's just like you know the world's greatest poker player and then just so you know tonight is

SPEAKER_07: a murderer's row and helmuth is flying back you saw the lineup and now the plugs follow the show at x.com slash the all in pod our tick tock is at all underscore in underscore talk our instagram is the all in pod and on linkedin search for the all in pod cast the show is produced by producer nick calacanis and our ceo is john hale you can find chamath at x.com slash chamath and you can sign up for his weekly email what i read this week at chamath.substack.com sign up for a developer account at console.grock.com and follow sandeep madra x.com slash sandeep you can follow david sacks at x.com david sacks sacks recently spoke at the american moment conference it's his pin tweet on his x.com

SPEAKER_01: profile follow david friedberg the sultan of science at x.com friedberg ohalo is hiring and david freeberg is the ceo you can click on the careers page at ohalo genetics.com we're hiring a full-time researcher here we need somebody who can do data research for us we're looking for somebody to

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SPEAKER_05: in september in los angeles again at ucla summit dot all in podcast dot co i'm jason calacanish you can follow me on x.com slash jason or search for this week in startups on youtube and follow my other podcast i'm hosting my liquidity conference again in napa on june 2nd to the 5th only lps and gps come to this event 125 people every year this year's speakers include ibrahim ajami from mubadala david freeberg chamath polyhapatiya gavin baker jordan stein from crescent partners monique woodard from

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