Jason Calacanis: Hey everybody, it's a News Tuesday. We're going to start this show with details of the $600 million

SPEAKER_01: hack, ouch, that impacted Axie Infinity's Ronin Bridge. I think we can all agree, Web3 is going just great. Then we discuss the genius engineers at Twilio who allegedly thought insider trading was a great use of their time in a group chat. And we talk about Robinhood extending its trading window by four hours a day on the path to 24-7 trading. We also have a startup of the day, Subject.com, a company providing high school courses for credit online. And between the Robinhood and the Subject.com stories, we're going to just end up at education. It's a great

SPEAKER_03: show. It's quite a journey. Stick with us. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Wealthfront makes it easy to invest and easy to grow your savings with a diversified portfolio that balances your other riskier bets. To start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed for free, go to wealthfront.com slash twist. I trust capital. Did you know that you can invest in crypto through your retirement account and still get the same tax advantages as a traditional IRA? Visit itrust.capital slash twist to start investing today. And Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch use offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hey, everybody. Welcome to

SPEAKER_06: Tuesdays. This Week in Startup. It's been a crazy week. Yesterday, we had to cover the insanity at the Oscars. Today, we're going to do part two. It's just going to take 35 minutes today, not 40.

SPEAKER_09: Maybe 40, maybe 40 minutes. We're not at the end. We're gonna do a little stinger. I have I have just a little stinger opinion to just put a bow on the meantime to moving on with these memes. So at the end of the show, I'm going to just talk about the slap one last time because I do have an

SPEAKER_06: insight I want to share. But first up, here we go. Everything is fine in web three.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, this actually is really kind of a bummer because this is, of course, Axie Infinity, the game that has gotten so much buzz. There was a great interview on twist with the founder. We talked about how if if the blockchain and tokens were going to find a home, it was going to be in game mechanics and in game economies. The only problem, of course, is if your private blockchain gets hacked, which appears to have happened with Axie Infinity's

Jason Calacanis: Ronin blockchain, which was hacked for over $600,000,000.

SPEAKER_16: Once again, my ear monitors went out. I thought you said $600,000,000. You said $6,000,000

SPEAKER_19: got stolen. You should totally get those replaced. They keep the numbers keep my headphones.

SPEAKER_01: $173,600,000 is evidently worth $600,000,000 over half a billion dollars was stolen. And, and it seems like maybe they found out when a user notified them. I'm not, I have not verified that yet, but I saw it in

SPEAKER_04: the nota gang and you can kind of trust the nota gang. Yeah, that's not good.

SPEAKER_09: That is bonkers. And I'm, I'm just trying to figure out where that sits in the largest hacks

SPEAKER_06: in history, because these hacks are different than, you know, when the Marriott or, you know, Yahoo got hacked back in the day, you remember all these hacks that occur. Um, these, these hacks tend to be

David Friedberg: data, not, um, cash money, not cash money. And that's the, the rub here. The, the great thing about

SPEAKER_09: the, the web three ecosystem writ large is that you you've got a currency built in. So when you used

SPEAKER_06: to steal data, right. And people would get, I don't know, a hundred million accounts, you know, a 500 million credit cards. There were like the, I think they're trying to think of the biggest, um, I was trying to think of the biggest cash hacks in history. And I'm, I can't find a list of that because all the hacks in history. Right. I mean, that's a bank robbery. This isn't even,

SPEAKER_01: it's probably not even appropriate to call it a hack. Like this is a bank robbery.

SPEAKER_27: SolarWinds was a big one. SolarWinds was a big hack and data hack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: They're data hacks. They, they, they steal the soft source code, the Sony hack. They sold emails.

SPEAKER_01: Our, one of our noties Rory is pointing out that the Mt. Gox hack is probably the closest. Okay. That was 740,000 Bitcoin, uh, including my 300.

SPEAKER_34: Yeah. Which at the time we were worth. At the time was worth $3,000 in total.

SPEAKER_01: 17 cents. Exactly. And now, but, but if it were in today's prices, it'd be worth $400 million. And that's still less than this, the entire Mt. Gox hack, which almost wiped out the entire economy. Cause it was such a big deal. It was like the first time an exchange went down is still smaller in today's dollars than this hack of this one game and this one network.

SPEAKER_06: Now here's the good news. Usually these are, it's possible to track these down. Right?

SPEAKER_38: So we remember those masterminds who had the hack that we just covered. Oh, at the time, 400 million. I'm sorry. Uh, sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.

SPEAKER_30: At the time, the Mt. Gox was 400 million. So in today's dollar, it's like dollars. It's like the entire global economy. Thank you, Rory.

SPEAKER_09: Thank you, Rory. Thank you, Rory. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, when you look at this and for people who don't know, these blockchain validators, uh, are responsible for verifying transactions on the blockchain. So SkyMaven's Ronin chain has nine validator nodes. Those nodes verify transactions. Once the transactions are verified, they're added to the ledger. Uh, and so Ronin has like a proof of authority blockchain. It's similar to a proof of stake, but slightly different POA, the validator stake their reputation on the line. So even though SkyMavis, the company behind X infinity had plans to decentralize his nodes over time, there are only nine validators. Currently, this means it is more centralized than something like say Bitcoin. Mm-hmm. So, hmm. According to the Ronin quote, the attacker managed to get control over SkyMaven's four Ronin validators and a third party validator run by the axe DAO. So somehow they got the keys to these, um, validators. And then I guess they just siphoned off the money. Uh, so, but now I guess you have to wonder because these things have to be put into a wallet.

SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm. We actually are sitting here with the hackers wallet. Right. So you can point to, and we'll put the ether scan of this. There is a wallet where they know where it is. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: And they can see it just sitting there.

SPEAKER_01: Current limp current ether value 597 million, 418,640 dollars and 59 cents.

SPEAKER_06: Uh, so I guess now this, the FBI and everybody is going to be, or maybe perhaps international, uh, investigators are going to go try to find this money.

SPEAKER_52: Mm-hmm.

Jason Calacanis: But what a disaster. I'm like scared to leave the wallet. It's just a disaster. It really is.

SPEAKER_01: And it, it, what's so interesting is that it is a whole bunch of things coming together at once. One is the idea of these slightly more centralized blockchains, right? Like effectively a private blockchain. So it's not as distributed because it is like a DAO. Uh, not only did they get control of the validator run by the DAO, but they got control over these four other ones, the Ronin validators.

SPEAKER_61: And that crosses this majority that is needed to control the validators. There's sort of all of these like things that are in place to supposedly stop this from happening. But each one of those Rubicons was crossed. Wow. Effectively. It's taking action. They say to reduce future risk, they increase the validator requirement from five to eight. So you'd have to hack eight of them instead of just four or five to take control of the entire thing. They're working with exchange security teams, chain analysis and law enforcement to monitor the stolen funds and block transfers because they obviously can see this wallet, which is so weird. They've also paused the Ronin bridge where you can deposit or withdraw assets to Ronin and disabled their decentralized exchange Katana. But what does this mean for the business?

SPEAKER_06: That's a great question. Uh, can they weather this storm? And so there is something, uh, basically when you run a company, you get hacker insurance. Right. And I don't know. I'm going to need a fact check on this. If blockchain companies have or web three companies writ large, you know, all of the different umbrella ones, if they have, you know, hacking insurance or if they are even qualified for it. I wonder.

SPEAKER_65: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Which is to say, would anybody insure them? So I'm going to need a fact check producers at this week and startups.com.

SPEAKER_09: If anybody can tell us or our Nody gang in their super secret signal group for tomorrow's show, I just want to get some expertise on, uh, cyber insurance is the, the silly term. It's really hacking insurance, but they call it cyber insurance for whatever reason. Um, cyber punk. As if like, there are like cyber punk.

David Friedberg: Cause they came up with it in the nineties. People with spiked mohawks and green hair. They're hacking the Gibson. Yes. Hack the planet. They're hacking the planet. They're on rollerblades going down Broadway with a 3.5 inch floppy disk to hand over the hacked data.

SPEAKER_73: You see me, Jason, you see me. I do see you. I see you and William Gibson and just all tomorrow's parties. Such a freaking nerd. We're super nerds.

SPEAKER_09: So anyway, that's the key issue here on a business basis. When I joined the board of a company, when we're working with companies, shout out to our friends at in broker sponsors the show. And actually they, they helped me with this a lot. We have to explain to founders that congratulations on raising your 3 million, your 5 million, your 10 million. Hey, that would be a good time to get director's insurance. Do you know directors and officers in case somebody does something stupid, or we do nothing stupid and we get sued. And then how about we get some sort of HR insurance in case somebody does something stupid, or we get accused of doing something stupid. Even though we didn't do anything stupid and cyber insurance in case we get hacked. And then people sue us because now the people who are part of this game can sue acts infinity. Yeah. And that's where this becomes, you know, um, this is where hacks become a bit of a problem. You're going to have a bunch of drive by insurance folks, not drive by drive by lawyers and firm law firms. We're now like, okay, there are a group of people. We're going to start a class action suit where whatever we recover, we as the attorneys get whatever half of it. And then we distribute the other half. So now the firm, the company is going to be dealing with the fallout from the hack. And then getting attacked by lawyers and having to spend a bunch of money to defend themselves while working with law enforcement to try to recover this. And then God forbid, it's an inside job, you know, where somebody inside was working on this.

SPEAKER_77: I just saw yesterday, the sec did an insider trading thing of Twilio employees, which I see on our docket here.

SPEAKER_09: There are going to be so many shoes to drop and hopefully they can recover the money. Uh, but this is a, uh, this is kind of a big deal. Uh, and it could be these hacks sometimes, uh, for startups have the risk of ruin potential.

SPEAKER_77: Uh, in other words, company can go belly up from something like this. I don't know if that's the case here and how, I don't know what percentage of their holding 625 million is. If it's 10% sounds like they could figure out a way to survive.

SPEAKER_82: If it's 50% of their holdings, you know, I don't know, like maybe it's a risk of ruin. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: I don't know either. And I don't know if this, what is stolen represents their actual holdings or just the kind of in-game assets.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously you're not sitting on $625 million in in-game assets that you're not doing something else with. So it's unclear at this point. I think what the business impact of this is other than just again, the reputational issue, which is unavoidable when you're building things on top of, you know?

SPEAKER_61: Yes. As the notice are pointing out the underlying technology here, the blockchain itself is still impervious thus far. That is totally true. But the fact is you have to layer things on top of this to make it usable.

SPEAKER_01: And every layer that you build is a point of entry and means it's, you know, high value targets.

David Friedberg: And I understand. I'm just seeing some Twitter chatter about this happened six days ago and they just found out about it. So there, this is one of the things when you run fast, uh, or you move fast and break things, which has been a heuristic philosophy of hacking and building companies and move fast, break things. Um, sometimes, you know, you can have a fatal outcome. So when the enterprise gets bigger, you want to slow down and make things more redundant, make things, uh, safer. You don't want to break things because the footprint of something getting broken in a small enterprise.

SPEAKER_09: You know, if you had a thousand Ethereum, you know, total in this project, well, you know, what's the footprint times 3000, you know, it's $3 million. One of the investors could just say, here's another $3 million would take 2% of the company and 1% of the company, and you can keep going or we'll loan you the money. You don't even need to go through hacker insurance, cyber insurance. You just float it. When you get big, you have to really make sure you have a security team. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that they have a 10 person security team on this project, but the scale of it is such that they probably need to have a 10 person security team. We don't know. Yeah. Uh, and that's what happens when things grow too fast.

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SPEAKER_28: Well, and when the assets in question are worth so much, right?

Jason Calacanis: It's sort of like, it's not enough to just build a couple layers and have your basic security. This is like, you need the really good safe to store these jewels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_92: And there could be all kinds of safeguards that are put in place. And this is why regulation comes into play.

SPEAKER_09: The reason we have regulations because these kinds of things have happened before in society. Regulators see them. They add regulation to protect all the stakeholders. I'm using the word stakeholder, not shareholder, because fallout can go beyond just the people who own equity in a company.

SPEAKER_06: Mm hmm. And over time, people get a little upset. Oh my God, there's too many, you know, regulations. It's slowing things down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: And so you have to look at these projects and say, what's a reasonable amount of friction to protect people? And we have these like FDIC insurance. You hear about that, you know, uh, or people having to have cyber insurance, people having to have double signatures or, whatever your, your bank requires you to do when you send a wire over X amount or reporting. And so this is where the sec. Is going to look at the continuing fallout on the, you know, uh, what's the name of the website? Is it web three? Everything's fine or everything's fine.

David Friedberg: It's going great. Web three is going great. The reason web three is going great. Is it struck such a chord is because these things have gotten so big that the fallout is so great with no regulation.

SPEAKER_09: And the fair thing to do for everybody in crypto and for all stakeholders and participants is to add friction regulation. And I am a, you know, go fast person. But once the numbers go up, I may make sure people don't lose their money person as well. These are not, or these are ends.

SPEAKER_51: Yeah. And so this is why we need Gary Gensler and the whole squad over there to really be clear about what the rules are.

SPEAKER_98: I could not agree more.

Jason Calacanis: Gary Gensler. Love to have you on. Yes. Regulatory. Yeah. Like regulatory certainty increases markets. Just. Wait, say it again. Regulatory certainty makes markets. If that makes sense, right? Because people.

SPEAKER_61: Because once you know what the rules are, you know how to make money. Okay. Sure. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_09: Here's the three point line. Yeah. Now I know where to practice my, yeah, here's the three point line. Now I know where to stand and practice. I'm not coming into the game where the three point line is moving around.

SPEAKER_04: Yep. It's fixed. And I, I think a fixed regulatory framework here would actually help a lot of these businesses, help even bring other businesses into existence because they know what the rules are and they know how to operate within them. And they, they, they, you know, it's like, you can build within the, you can bowl within the, between the gutters.

SPEAKER_105: Exactly. Okay.

Jason Calacanis: You can. Let's go to our next one. I will say you can put in all the regulatory framework, all the insurance in the world. You can have rules of the road. You can have regulation, but you cannot stop your employees from occasionally ripping you off. Oh my Lord. The sec has fined three Twilio employees for insider trading, specifically three Twilio software engineers.

SPEAKER_01: Idiots. Evidently the engineers in four family. I love the, I love the color commentary. Dumb dumbs. Sorry. I don't mean to. Yeah. I mean, seriously, like you're going to get caught. Allegedly the engineers in four family members and friends made more than a million dollars in collective profits, which considering the consequences at stake here don't seem worth it. Um, basically the charges alleged that these engineers quote learned through the database that Twilio's customers had increased their usage of the company's products and services in response to health measures taken in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.

SPEAKER_61: And concluded in a joint chat that Twilio's stock price would quote rise for sure. Okay. Now. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: So the, the, I mean, that this insider trading ring took advantage of valuable revenue information related to the pandemic. San Francisco tech company. I'm sorry. This feels a little excessive. If I'm now that I'm reading the details, like, yeah, this was dumb, dumb stuff, but like, so wait, you work there.

SPEAKER_28: I don't know. All right.

SPEAKER_115: Let me start with the levels of stupidity here.

SPEAKER_118: Yeah.

SPEAKER_117: I'm going to help you. You're engineers at a unicorn. You make a quarter million dollars a year. Each.

SPEAKER_06: You could leave your job and get a 10% raise. You could take on side jobs and make a thousand dollars an hour or $500 an hour. Yeah. You could, with all the data you have, understand and have insights into other companies. Totally. It would not be insider trading. It would just be, you know, about the markets and you could trade other stocks.

SPEAKER_120: You could trade a competitor, right? Like a Twilio competitor.

David Friedberg: Well, that would still be insider trading. Would that still be? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know in the, well, you don't have to even trade a, you don't even have to trade a competitor.

SPEAKER_06: You could know as a developer, because you work at Twilio, you could see all the partners who use Twilio, right? And you don't even have to look at their data. You just know that they sign up for Twilio, which means their company's probably doing pretty good. Mm-hmm . Or you could just take your general knowledge of developers and watch other signals in the market. Right? So if you do have that brain, you could go to GitHub. You could go to open source libraries, look at who's making the most, you know, commits. Right? And if you see like tons of commits coming up from Netflix employees or Disney employees, whatever it is, you could maybe figure out through some other, a similar data analysis that some company is going to do well. Right? Yeah. You could look at the downloads. You could make, you could literally make an algorithm that looks at the changes in public. You could, you could check mark every publicly traded app in the app stores. Look at how they're trending over time. And if they're growing, then make trades on that. That would, that's public data. You use your engineer brain to do it. And to, to reinforce how stupid these idiots are. Mm-hmm .

SPEAKER_122: These are stupid idiots. Like there are idiots and there are stupid people. Yeah. These are stupid idiots. This is just bad at criming right here.

SPEAKER_06: This is, you literally typed it into a chat room as a developer, knowing how easy that data is to get. Mm-hmm .

SPEAKER_126: I mean, how dumb do you need to be?

Jason Calacanis: I mean, it's, it's pretty embarrassing. I mean, how dumb do you need to be? And then just used like tipped off or used the brokerage accounts of close friends and family.

SPEAKER_04: Why? Why? The notice asked a good question, which is who ratted them out. But it probably, I mean, it makes you wonder like, how did they type a group chat on their work computers?

SPEAKER_28: Like what on earth was happening here? Well, probably what happened was the sec looks for odd trades.

SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm . So they might have seen like E trade or somebody or Robin hood might've seen 10 accounts created in the same week that all made 10 K bets on Twilio stock all within a certain geo region.

SPEAKER_09: And whenever they see those kinds of trades, they're responsible for reporting them as odd looking trades. So there is a concept of, I don't, it's not the word odd, but there's a funky trade trigger. Right. In the services that the sec does.

SPEAKER_137: Unusual activity kind of stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah. Just outside the norm. I mean. So these people are so stupid instead of. Yeah. Using a trading account that had 30 stocks in it and trading those 30 stocks, you know, twice a year each, and then adding another 10 and one of the 10 is, you know, Twilio. They didn't do this. So this is what happens when people count cards playing blackjack. They're betting $10 a hand. The deck becomes what's called charged, uh, by people I've talked to. And so there are more face cards in it than previously. And then when that happens, when you have like a plus X number of face cards, they just keep a count of them. Uh, you can then increase your bet size by a hundred cause you have a slight edge. And when you get that slight edge, then you press your luck. And then the dealer goes, huh, they've been playing for two hours at $10 a hand.

SPEAKER_09: And now they're betting 5,000 a hand, the table max, something's up here. And then they say, we don't need your business. Yeah. So that's the kind of way people get busted here is they make some very strange looking trade.

Jason Calacanis: In this case, they quite specifically sought permission to trade options from brokerage accounts. They had not used in years. According to the company. We did find that. Okay.

SPEAKER_143: That's what I anticipated. That was exactly what you just said. Yep. Amazing. Oh, and they're so dumb. They didn't even buy the stock.

David Friedberg: They, they did it with option calls. So what they did was they, they just made short term bets, right?

SPEAKER_09: Like the, the option to buy the shares so they could make even more, um, condensed bets, I guess, as opposed to just owning a hundred shares and trading it every two years. Yep. Here's the, the ultimate stupidity in all of this. Yeah. They could have just bought and held the stock. If they never sold the stock, if they did in fact, working there, know that the company was doing well.

SPEAKER_29: Here's a strategy, dipshits. Buy the stock and hold it. Buy the stock and hold it.

SPEAKER_01: Is that a strategy for lighter insider trading or just like a thing that's not going to get you caught? Well, if you're not. Or like in trouble. Let's say you saw this quarter.

Jason Calacanis: It depends on what team they're on, right? So if, if, if some, if somebody inside Twilio who didn't have access to privilege information was like, I think this pandemic is going to do well for our stock. Friends and family, you should buy it. That's one thing.

SPEAKER_61: We're all actually on a team that had signed an agreement specifically saying we will not provide non-public information in a manner that could end in unlawful trading.

SPEAKER_151: Okay. Fine. Yeah. I think that's, that's probably. They were on the invoicing team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_153: Right. They're totally pretty standard, but. Not allowed. Here's another idea. Work hard at your job, go to your boss and say, I worked really hard.

SPEAKER_09: Here are the 10 things I did. Can I get more stock? Right. And then go on five job interviews, come back to your boss and say, I got, I went on five job interviews because I've been getting called a lot. I feel like maybe my comp, I wanted to check to see if my comp was in line and I got 17 to 30% higher offers than I have right now. Can I get it all in stock? Because I believe in the company. Right. Totally.

SPEAKER_154: Okay. You, you just made more money than stealing.

SPEAKER_06: This is like somebody who works.

SPEAKER_77: Um, this is like somebody who works at a butcher that has Wagyu beef, like literally taking one of the stakes and putting it in their pants. Like, and walking out the door.

SPEAKER_155: Like, you could've just asked your boss.

SPEAKER_158: Like, it really is.

SPEAKER_155: Can I take home a Kobe or can I get a discount on Kobe boss? Be like, you're so great. You come in early. You clean up.

SPEAKER_06: Kobe's on me. Yeah. You know, dummies, throw the book at these dummies.

SPEAKER_28: Make an example out of them. I hate to say it's really true.

SPEAKER_01: And it's just what's really kind of sad about it. And I'm not saying that this isn't that, that, you know, quarter of a million dollars. Isn't this isn't a lot of money for people, but to do this for a million dollars in the aggregate between like them and their 10 friends and family and whatever is just like, oh, for God's sake. Cause now you're done. Now your career is over.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Let this be a warning to everybody. Like going to jail sucks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: Going to like jail, even for six months, which is what they're going to do, right? They're going to have to pay fines.

SPEAKER_168: They're never going to be able to go to jail, but their careers are over.

SPEAKER_51: I don't know. Sometimes they make them go for three months into one of those. Like, uh, yeah, I think sometimes.

SPEAKER_155: Like Martha Stewart ones. Yeah. They kind of like to put you in a white collar jail because it just gives you enough fear of like, you watch the TV show, Oz and you see cylinder.

David Friedberg: And then they put you in one of these jails. That's like next to it. And they're like, Hey, you're in the jail. Mm-hmm Mm-hmm And cylinder's in the jail next to you. Like considering that like, we can put you in this one, but you're going to be in this one for six weeks.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah. I would be shocked. I would bet you a shiny $2 bill that none of these dumb dumbs are going to jail. It's just not that big. Speaking of $2 bills and gambling. Yes.

SPEAKER_09: Uh, I had a really great session one time, uh, in Vegas and, you know, I'm like in the VIP suite where they give you your bricks of cash. And, uh, the woman, you know, I, I tip everybody out. I had one, like 20 dimes. So I give a hundred bucks to this person, a hundred bucks, this person, you know, I'm especially cashy. And, uh, what was this? Anything else we can do for you, Mr. Calacanis? Like, how would you like your bills? I'm like, I like fifties. I'm a big 50 guy. I like 50 dollar bills. Yeah. I get like a hundred of them. She's like, we can have like a thousand dollars and we have a ton. Nobody ever wants them. I was like, give me a thousand dollars and $2 bills. The best. I then took those $2 bills. I put them in my backpack. And anytime I would go to a valet or whatever, I would give $2 bill tips. Yeah. I'd give $6 and $2 bills, $10 and $2 bills. Yeah. I tell them, Hey, it's lucky. Give it to your kids.

SPEAKER_51: Cause they never get to see a $2 bill. And then every time I would pull up to a valley, whatever, they would remember me a year later. $2 bill guy.

Jason Calacanis: Yep. My stepfather is obsessed with weird money. And he gives us, I mean, like he loves to buy those strange little coins and the specials

SPEAKER_01: and whatever. But every birthday and holiday, you get a stack of $2 bills commensurate to your age on the birthday. So we always have, right. So, and this is a great birthday gift. Like if you're going to a kid's birthday party and you don't know what to give them, get them their age plus one and $2 bills. And so, yeah, I'm always like buying coffee and tipping and $2 bills and people get so excited.

SPEAKER_122: So you're looking forward to getting your $15, $2 bills next week. Exactly. $15 plus one. Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_186: Absolutely. 29. Yeah. Go for the big 30.

SPEAKER_172: You got to have a big 30th birthday party for your mom. It's going to be great. It's going to be awesome. Oh God. I mean, I can't afford much cause I'm only 30. You know, I haven't really. Absolutely. Well, you know, now that I'm 40, I'm like, I'm having my midlife crisis.

David Friedberg: Exactly. 50. How did I get old? It's so weird to be turned 50. I have to say, because everybody used to think I was young. And now suddenly everybody's like, Hey, that guy's 50 years old for a 50 year old. Really? I'm like, what happened?

Jason Calacanis: Then it's, then you're just about looking young for your age is what it is.

SPEAKER_01: I, I'm in May. I turned 47 and then I will be incontrovertibly. I'll have to round up. Oh boy. Like you can't at 46.

SPEAKER_28: You can kind of pretend you don't have to round up, but at 47, you really do have to

SPEAKER_04: round up.

SPEAKER_28: Yeah. Well, here's the thing.

SPEAKER_194: 50s are the new 30s. All right.

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SPEAKER_01: Speaking of trading, Robinhood has announced that it will extend its equities trading window by four hours now ranging from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. Eastern, which brings them in line with offerings from rival brokerages.

Jason Calacanis: Charles Schwab interactive brokers and fidelity they cited customer demand for extended hours trading and want to eventually reach 24 seven trading. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_77: Yeah, I think it's going to be great when people participate in the market 24 hours a day and have panic attacks on Saturday evenings.

SPEAKER_51: Um, no, I think, you know, it will make for a more fluid market. It'll probably create some volatility, but I'm not an expert on market. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_09: We have cryptos big, um, rallying cry is the markets are 24 hours. So you don't have these like weird holiday weekends where, you know, something terrible happens and people have to wonder, oh my God, for the next 36 hours. So you will remove those what happens Monday, you know, when the market opens moments because it will kind of be, uh, baked in because it's 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_201: Really?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. I mean, this is the kind of thing that solve that, that takes a big step towards solving the things that crypto says it can solve. Right. Which is like, why are you closed on weekends? Seriously? I make a transaction, a digital transaction. It's all digital. I like upload a picture of a deposit and it's all digital and whatever, but I still don't get the money for four days because like there's a holiday. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: It's digital. You know who the big winner, you know who the big winner here is? Who? CNBC.

SPEAKER_206: Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Now CNBC gets to open up their trading window mark, you know, and then you know who the big loser is in this?

David Friedberg: Sleep. Sleep. Exactly. Oh my Lord.

SPEAKER_211: Jesus Christ, man. It's hard enough to look at my stock portfolio over the last year. You don't want to know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: You want to be able to go to bed. It's like how in the old days kids could come home and like. Yeah. You wouldn't get in touch with them and yell at them, but now they can on messaging. Yeah. The casino was never closed.

SPEAKER_64: The casino never closes now. So we just have to get it. We're gonna have to adjust to this, but I'm still long Robin hood.

SPEAKER_51: Obviously I was an investor before they launched. I still have a ton of shares in the company and I plan on holding them for the next decade because they have over 22 million net cumulative funded accounts as of their last quarterly report.

SPEAKER_09: And despite the fact that there was a lot of stock trading and weird stuff. I think more participation by people in the market at younger ages is a good thing. As long as there's some rules of the road, you know, like obviously giving people who are young margin. You have to think about how much margin they should have and quickly funding accounts. You have to think about what's reasonable there. And I think the firm is, I don't, I don't speak for Robin hood. I'm a minor, minor, minor shareholder now in the grand scheme of things. Uh, but you know, there is, we just talked about friction in previous stories and rules of the road. Yeah. You want to get people onboarded quickly. You want to let them trade. You also want to have safeguards. So people don't trade beyond their limit. I am the type of person who feels people should be able to gamble or reasonably, uh, participate in equities, reasonably participate in gambling and learn how to be an adult and manage their own money. So net, net, net. I feel like this is all good. Uh, and I think, you know, crypto shows that people will make bets on insanely speculative things with no regulation. So at least if you're betting in stocks, they have to reach the basic benchmark of what it means to have a publicly traded equity as opposed to a coin, which means somebody distributed them and created a pump and dump room.

SPEAKER_01: I also just feel like the more this exists at the consumer level, the more it'll push for this kind of basic education, whether it comes from school or YouTube. I mean, this is, I'm sorry. Like they should teach this in schools. Like schools should have curriculum around understanding your finances and how financial markets work. The fact that like a minority of Americans participate in the stock market other than their 401k is appalling. That's appalling. They are public markets by definition. So anything that democratizes that for people and incentivizes education. Great. My son's got like a little fractional trading account on fidelity. He's so proud of his little portfolio. He's always talking about what he's going to like it.

SPEAKER_30: That I think is going to be, I'm not going to say it's more valuable than his biology class. I'm just saying. Yeah. It's useful.

SPEAKER_09: It would be amazing if every kid in America, uh, we talked about like the freedom dividend, giving everybody when they're born $2,000 worth of equities locked in an account. And then when they hit whatever, 25 years old, they can trade the account, maybe once a year or something, rebalance it, or maybe even actively trade it. Yeah. But they can't take money out. But maybe they could take a little out for college and then it stays until they retire. So then every American would a hundred percent of Americans would have equity participation. Here's another idea. You go to public school. And on the first day of school, they, you know, whatever fifth, sixth, seventh grade, they give you $50 worth of equities in a Robin hood account that you can trade however you want, but you can't take the money out. Mm-hmm . And you trade it however you want. Mm-hmm . And every year we put another 50 in for 10 years of school, you have $500. And when you graduate, it goes into your college account up or down or zero.

SPEAKER_06: Yep. And so it's basically every student gets $500 when they're a young adult to bet, and then it goes through their college fund or it goes into their retirement fund. They can't take it out. It's just for fun to bet.

SPEAKER_09: Can you imagine what would be happening in fifth, sixth, seventh grade where kids were, you know, taking out, I don't want to say Robin hood, but taking out, you know, whatever account they chose to put it in each rate, Robin hood, whatever. Man, it would make all these kids be sitting around saying, how do equities work? Right. And it would cost $50 per student.

SPEAKER_06: What do we spend on these goddamn textbooks?

Jason Calacanis: And also how do businesses work? Right? Like if they, they would literally potentially be learning business fundamentals at the same time, the ones who were careful and wanted to understand, then you have a generation that's building better businesses. Like it's just a, that's, you know, that's how you invest not only in their actual individual futures, but in creating people and a whole collection of kids who understand how the economy works that can only be good for your economy.

SPEAKER_77: Well, that's why I would found a university is brand that we're creating founder dot university 12 week course $700 to go for 12 weeks. If you make it through the 12 weeks, you have the $700 back. So it's free. We do that to help society and founders. I want to do founder university high school edition, and just allow 15 to 20 or 15 to 17 year olds join and just run them through the exact same course.

SPEAKER_228: Yes.

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SPEAKER_51: All right, let's do our startup of the day. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_77: Subject.com. Uh, formerly known as a meal. Emily learning is an accredited meal. Emile. Emile. Uh, no. Is an accredited learning platform offering high school level education. Nice free branding. Uh, subject.com is like a $500,000 domain name. For those of you who are wondering, uh, anytime it's in the dictionary, you can add a zero to it. Subject.com currently has 65 courses, including 29 plus core courses like algebra, Spanish, Jewish history, 21 advanced placement courses, calculus, biology, physics, 15 electives. Students can access material for just $9.59 a month or $69.99 a year. Sound like a pitch man. Um, to me, this is great. When you look at what textbooks cost.

SPEAKER_09: I really wish this was more open source and free. Um, and then they charge for a paper. Uh, paper in other words, anybody could access it for free, but then if you wanted to take. A certification where you prove you learned it, then you pay the, you know, 10 bucks a month or something, but whatever. It's such a de minimis amount of money. It's per month. It's less than the average minimum wage in the country. So I always look at that. If something costs less than one hour of work, uh, or, you know, two or three, then it's probably easily affordable by everybody. And so what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love this. I was actually doing a little research to try to see. Cause I feel like I had heard some chatter about the ed tech startup ecosystem. It was obviously the hot thing. Um, and I'm trying to figure out sort of where it sits now. There's been a lot of investment, but I do think, and actually one of the noties sort of, you didn't steal my line. Cause I hadn't said it yet, but database said what I've been thinking for a long time, which is like, we are so we're so proto matrix right now. We're like all almost Neo, just like Jack in learn whatever you want. And I feel like more opportunities for that is incredibly valuable.

SPEAKER_61: And I like the fact that this also includes credentialing so that you do come away with some sort of a certificate that says I completed this thing. There is value in it. I did this work. Uh, you can, you know, believe that I have gotten this education, which is frankly, no different from your little, like fifth grade graduation certificate or your diploma at this point.

SPEAKER_237: And, uh, it's a really well-designed looking website.

SPEAKER_51: I, I don't know who runs it, but they have like, it looks like really, uh, charismatic teachers for each of these and you enroll and you can take any of these courses and. You know, uh, like disrupt education.

SPEAKER_238: It's like the only thing that came out of the pandemic undisrupted.

Jason Calacanis: And I like still wish that my school had a hybrid option so that we could all go and work from someplace for a week or so that, you know, I, I mean, I think the idea.

SPEAKER_01: I, I mean, I think the idea of innovating on education in this way is not happening in schools, but it is starting to happen on these edges and which with these ed tech and, you know, I'm not advocating a wholesale.

SPEAKER_61: Like I love my teachers. Don't get me wrong. But I think there's a lot of value in being pushed in this direction.

SPEAKER_51: It more competition means better results. And the biggest problem in education today is no competition and the teachers unions and, you know, uh, incumbents, whether you're pro union.

SPEAKER_09: Not what they've basically done is they've created a cartel where you cannot compete with them. And what we need to have is competition. Charter schools, home schools, hybrid model, online model.

SPEAKER_06: Just let a thousand flowers bloom. Let there be competition and let the best solution win. And sometimes the best solution for one student. Will be going to a classroom sitting for six, seven hours and be the factory farming model that we all went through. And for other kids, it might be, I dunno, they come in for, you know, a week and then they have three weeks on their own. Cause they're self-led or for some people that might be tutoring.

SPEAKER_09: It might be homeschool that competition happen. Yeah. Uh, and, you know, I was always like very reticent to, you know, I really understood the arguments against vouchers when I heard it. And for a period of my life, I was like, yeah, I, you know, I'm a product of the public school system up until eighth grade when I got into too many fights.

SPEAKER_77: And then they put me in private school. It's a separate story. Um, public school doesn't work for everyone. Doesn't work for everyone.

SPEAKER_06: But anyway, I was like, yeah, I don't want all the smart parents or the parents who have means taking the 10k voucher, putting them in private school and then who's left in public school.

SPEAKER_09: It would have been me. Right. Uh, and it would have been like, okay, now it's spiraling downhill. It's already spiraling downhill. Yeah. So now I'm pro vouchers. And now that I have kids and I've seen it up close and personal, and I realized there is no competition or not. No competition or not enough. Put it this way. If five parents, um, who were, uh, let's say not from affluent households. So lower income households got a $15,000, which is what we spend on each student. I think in California is 18,000. Imagine five people, you know, in the Bay area, pick a community that's lower income, five people times 18. Okay. We're talking about close to a hundred grand, right? You're talking about 80 grand, 90 grand, whatever it winds up being. You're telling me make it six kids. So it's just over a hundred. You're telling me those six parents. Couldn't get together.

SPEAKER_06: Pay a teacher 80 or $90,000 to homeschool those five or six kids. Yeah. Move it from one house to the other. And the parents could be involved to whatever level. Some might be involved one hour a month. Others might be 10 and you could divvy it up and make a budget. And that wouldn't be a better education possibly than going to an overcrowded public school.

Jason Calacanis: A super under-resourced. Yeah. And, and believe me, I'm aware. I'm highly aware as a long time school auction, mom, I ran it for three years and our school would raise and we would be on the hook for raising 150, $200,000 from an auction. So I am very aware of how under-resourced public schools are. And I don't, you know, the big argument, of course, is you don't want to drive them into the death spiral by saying, oh, these other options exist.

SPEAKER_01: We don't have to fund them. No. No, but also this industry has been deeply, deeply resistant to change at the administrator

SPEAKER_83: level.

SPEAKER_01: Right? Like not just, we always want to blame the teachers union. It's not just that, but like their need to, there needs to be innovation.

SPEAKER_238: And I support the matrix of vacation of education.

SPEAKER_92: Well, I mean, it's in every aspect of a society where there's competition, we see increased results.

SPEAKER_06: And so to pretend that education would be immune from that in the face of, you know, lowering outcomes and increasing prices, it feels like we have created a bubble where you don't need to have performance. And then you look at the percentage of administrators to in-room classroom teachers.

SPEAKER_09: And the fact that teachers can't be, again, this is not a jihad against teachers, but there

SPEAKER_06: are teachers who maybe should have been fired just like there are developers or salespeople or firefighters or cops or in any other. There are people who should be fired, whether they're making a student get ready for the real world, or they're making a, a mocha, you know, and a cappuccino. Yeah. Some people suck at those jobs and should be fired so that the money can go and somebody

SPEAKER_09: else who is a higher performer can get that seat and do that job. We have taken that concept out of education.

SPEAKER_06: Nobody gets fired for performance. Mm-hmm . And then we wonder why the performance is bad. You have to fire sometimes people if they suck. And you have to then take that money and reward the people who are excellent and pay them more. When you take out that dynamic, you know, whether it's an education or healthcare or housing,

SPEAKER_77: you get what you pay for. You paid for mediocrity. You took out, you know, this stuff and here we go.

SPEAKER_01: Yep. We maybe got, we strayed a little bit from our start of the day, but on the plus side, our startup of the day sounds great.

SPEAKER_155: It sounds, I just more of that, more of that, please, more of that, please.

SPEAKER_239: Yep.

SPEAKER_06: And I think, you know, what we're now going to get to is motivation and people knowing that this opportunity exists. Mm-hmm . And that's the next bridge.

SPEAKER_09: And that's what I'm really looking for a startup in is since all the materials are out there,

SPEAKER_77: we are investors in brilliant.org. I highly recommend everybody check that out. It's also like a hundred bucks a year. Um, we're also, uh, investors index are learning, which does remote schools.

SPEAKER_92: So we have a couple of bets in this space.

SPEAKER_09: We also have comm and steezy musician for music. We like these consumer subscription education plays that sell directly, but there is one piece that's missing that I am hoping somebody in the entrepreneurial community will take a look at, which is the motivation to get, uh, on this track.

SPEAKER_06: Because every time you talk about these things, there is a group of people who doesn't know this exists and they don't know how it leads to a career. Mm-hmm .

SPEAKER_263: You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm . So let's say you're the kid in Brooklyn, you know, like me, you don't have rich parents. You don't know what bankers do or VCs do. You've never met a banker or a VC. How does Jason Calacanis in sixth, seventh and eighth grade at McKinley junior high school, getting in fights, know that there is a track to become a VC. I found it through journalism. Eventually I had to, it was a lot of hustle I had to do and a lot of luck. And that piece, if somebody could take the randomness that I experienced in my career and make it into not random, like how to, how do I become successful as a startup?

SPEAKER_09: Mm-hmm . Where it just took somebody who was not successful and was like, I know nothing about how to make a life. You know, I'm 12 years old.

SPEAKER_06: Totally. And then they just said, okay, go here, go here, go here, go here. And hey, we'll sit in a room with you or a chat room and help you move over there. My God, that could change everything. So this is a great startup. Uh, but I'm still looking for more, uh, on tomorrow's show. I just want to give a little preview.

SPEAKER_51: We're going to talk about, um, I don't know how to frame this. I need your help Molly, but I want to train people on a trend. They don't know about.

SPEAKER_06: So catch me up on web tunes tomorrow. So for Wednesday show, we're going to do catch me up on web tunes. If you don't know, the coma is a Japanese web tune, uh, you know, uh, app.

SPEAKER_51: That's part of, uh, you know, uh, a big trend that's going on in Asia and they've achieved monthly revenues of close to a hundred million dollars. This is an incredible trend. And tomorrow we're going to unpack it for all of you. Thanks so much for tuning in today. My final note on the day is, you know, on that, the smack we talked about and this nonsense. Um, there's a lot more important things going on in the world.

SPEAKER_09: And if somebody is suffering from having a mental breakdown, which is, I think what we witnessed, I, you know, I don't know where you wound up with all this, but I just like this person has obviously mental issues that are acute.

SPEAKER_51: Um, that doesn't mean I forgive anything they say, but I, I, I hope that we can get back to the bigger issues in the world. Climate change, education, wars, dictatorships, entrepreneurship, hope. And let's forget about, uh, stupid like a person who, you know, is super entitled perhaps suffering from mental illness acting out.

SPEAKER_201: That's my closing note on it. I don't know if you have feelings on it, but let's get back to work on important. That's perfect.

SPEAKER_77: Yep. Get back to work. I almost feel guilty that we indulged ourselves talking about it so much, but.

Jason Calacanis: You know, I thought about that too. And I don't think that we should apologize for that because frankly, what I think it was all of that is true. And it was a, what it really was top to bottom, a sad story.

SPEAKER_168: It's just a sad, it was a sad situation.

Jason Calacanis: Yeah. And it, it incorporated so many sad things about society and that's true. And also everything has been so hard that people needed a diversion.

SPEAKER_01: We needed a diversion. Yes. Like we just needed it.

Jason Calacanis: And I, and it is awful to say that we use that sad situation as a diversion, but we did because we needed to talk about something else for a minute, because it is hard to live under the shadow of like recurring pandemic, thermonuclear war, you know, pending recession. Like it's hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_275: So that's why celebrity gossip exists.

David Friedberg: And how do you not talk about it? Because it's so far off on the simulation expectation that something like that would ever occur. It's never occurred. So. We all watched it.

SPEAKER_51: We all watched it. We all watched it. You know, but as, uh, one of our gang is saying, you know, maybe talk about domestic violence. Yeah. We talk about violence writ large, maybe talk about mental health. Yeah. Um, because I think that's what we saw was an acute mental health issue. You know, who knows what the background on it is, but, um, you know, if you're suffering from mental health issues, if you're feeling anxiety, feeling violent, feeling depressed, whatever it is, just go talk to somebody. I mean, I think that's the end message. Yeah. Um, go talk to somebody. There is no shame in going and talking to somebody about how you feel. It will release a lot of anxiety, uh, and you can get help out there. So if you're feeling desperate, go get help period, full stop, because what we saw yesterday, I think is a mental health crisis. And, uh, I hope that the person involved gets professional help and figures out why they snapped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_285: So they don't do it again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_51: If they sincerely are, you know, are feeling like that didn't represent who they are. Very simple way for you to do that. Let's go talk to some professional help. Then that person needs to talk to somebody two or three times a week for a couple of months and figure out, okay, what happened here? And how do I put it behind me?

SPEAKER_09: Because celebrities do live under a microscope. They do have an extraordinary amount of pressure on them. Uh, and again, I don't want to forgive what happened, but there's something going on there.

SPEAKER_51: That's deeper than what we saw. Yes.

SPEAKER_287: Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_51: All right. On that note, uh, go ahead and, uh, give us a follow on youtube.com session this weekend. So you can see the live program every day at 10 AM. Molly and I talk live for an hour or two, and you can join us there. And we have a lot of fun and you just hit the subscribe button and next to it is a bell. Everybody always asks, Hey, how can we help you, uh, with the show?

SPEAKER_09: If you have great ideas for the show and you want to be a producer and associate producer, just send your ideas to producers at this week in startups.com. Tell us what we could do better, what we could do. That's more helpful. Check out founder.university. Next cohort is going to start in a couple of months. Uh, and if you want to invest in startups with Molly and I, the syndicate.com for our general deal flow and the syndicate.com slash climate. If you're an accredited investor and would like to read deal memos that Molly's going to write about climate.

SPEAKER_51: We have our first deal coming soon, the syndicate.com slash climate, follow Molly wood, twitter.com slash Molly wood. You'll follow your boy, Jason twitter.com slash Jason. If you want to see me skiing about 40 days in this year, I think I might take up, uh, surfing.

SPEAKER_289: Or I was going to say, what are you going to do when it's not snowing?

SPEAKER_239: I'm thinking about the, um, what's the one we have, uh, a board and then a parachute.

SPEAKER_122: Oh, a parachute, like a boat pulls you. No, you pull your sporting or whatever. Kite boarding.

SPEAKER_77: I'm thinking about kite boarding out, uh, in the bay. Damn. Think about it. You want to go?

Jason Calacanis: My boyfriend is a long, long, long time windsurfer. So he'll be able to give you some tips on that. Okay. And where to go in the bay.

SPEAKER_297: Every time we fly over, he's like, they're there. See you next time everybody. Bye.

SPEAKER_298: Bye. Hey everyone. Producer Nick here. I want to tell you about the SAS syndicate. If you're a founder of a SAS company with a product and market, our investment team wants to talk to you. Head over to the syndicate.com slash SAS. S A A S to apply to raise from the SAS syndicate. And you can join Jason syndicate of over 9,000 accredited investors at the syndicate.com. Producer Justin here.

SPEAKER_300: Know a cool startup. Check out open scouting.com where anyone can refer a startup to our investment team here at launch. Even if you don't know the founder, if you're the first to flag a company for us and we decide to invest, you'll get 5k in cash or 10% of our carry. Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_302: Producer Rachel here. Are you an early stage startup that has product and market, some traction, and are looking to raise at least $500,000? Apply today to remote demo day for your chance to pitch to over 9,000 investors in Jason syndicate. Submit your application at remotedemoday.com. Our next event is on April 27th.

SPEAKER_298: And if you want to learn how to invest in startups from the world's greatest angel investor, and no, we're not talking about Chris Saka, then head to angel.university to apply. The four hour workshop costs $300 and all proceeds are donated to charity. To date, we've donated over $175,000 to various charities, and you can see the full list at angel.university slash charity.