SPEAKER_00: i want to bring up something else jason that's a little bit off from where we just were on the energy side of things instead talk about humans there's been a theme on the show for ever since i got here that companies are either not hiring or reducing their team sizes and so when we think about taking care of employees we don't talk about attrition that much it's just not the thing we're kind of tuning for i think as an industry but uh our friends over at 37signals dhh and jason fried uh are talking today quite a lot about their use of sabbaticals this is a six-week break for workers in their third year at the company as part of their overall kind of like kind setup for their staff including four-day work weeks from may through september and this struck me as just out of the blue because we're talking about laying off 14 000 people at amazon not trying to keep people so one are you in favor of sabbaticals of this type and two uh are they just drinking different kool-aid

SPEAKER_06: than everyone else so they are a highly profitable uh software company that has existed for a long time with a loyal base of users and it is um pretty reliable uh that those revenue streams people

SPEAKER_08: who use base cam they just love it they're never going to stop using it okay period false up so when

SPEAKER_06: you start a company and you don't have a bunch of investors which they don't i think they bought out bezos who was a their only investor uh back in the day they can build the world they want to live in now you remember they had a whole um dei woke thing happen at their company where people wanted to bring all their opinions to work and debate it on slack just like a coinbase and we had this sort of pendulum swing the other way hey if you're at coinbase you're here to do one thing you know provide crypto solutions to the world if you're at 37 signals they took a similar approach hey if you want to be here uh you're here to make great productivity software full stop and that's it and then here's an incredible pay package i think both companies just said hey if you want to opt out we get it so during that culture war which we forget about but i guess that was 2017 to you know covid basically um they went through that then whoever's left what's happening today is companies are

SPEAKER_09: getting more efficient if the company gets more efficient and you own a business you really appreciate stability you really appreciate the fact that alex shows up three days a week and uh has a suit and tie on or i wouldn't tell you about the ties um he has a press shirt on don't make me buy ties

SPEAKER_10: you never know um so you you start to appreciate that right and then uh when you lose a couple of video

SPEAKER_09: editors you know because they want to go make the next great movie or they want to be a screenplay writer you're like oh my god i own this business and i'm going through this again i gotta hire that person oh you know start the process again it becomes a distraction from growing your business so uh these kind of offerings seem crazy if you were running a large company and they would be they would create entitlement they could create abuse on the margins however with a small company okay you can make a lot of uh decisions like this that are quixotic but you can be 20 inefficient over the summer or for four months you can be if six weeks is like giving over three years is like giving people an extra two weeks of vacation essentially if you've built a company that's resilient and you have plenty of people and you're overstaffed by 20 it doesn't matter if people go on sabbatical for six weeks so you can build companies like that now if you tried this strategy and you were up against open ai and xai you would fail miserably so you do need to understand the game on the field if you had venture capitalists and you tried this and the company wasn't growing they'd be like hey maybe people should come in on friday since we're not growing but we will see in the united states i predict okay uh by the end of our lifetime the emergent of the emergence of a four-day work week i think you know a four-day you know not this like five six hours that people are working and going and getting marches and yoga whatever like you know the full-on 10-hour day four ten-hour days might actually for some people's rhythm be better than oh yeah five eight-hour days or five of these like six-hour days where you do a life in the thing so i think it's worth noting here because you have to know the game on the field in the context the context is highly profitable company extremely stable revenue no investors two owners they can do what they want and they can pursue whatever they want i remember when i worked in new york uh i would go to chanel and we managed their it systems uh like the luxury brand and they all were allowed to leave work at 12 o'clock or 12 30 on fridays during the summer summer fridays yeah fridays condi and asked the same thing but they had to get in at 8 a.m so they had to like put in at least a half day at work and you know they were very pampered everybody had an assistant nobody was really working uh you know it was they were selling twenty thousand dollar handbags so let's just leave it at that that's the equivalent of 37 signals they're they're chanel in this equation they're not grinding it out versus 20 competitors who are going to eat their lunch yeah question about this

SPEAKER_20: because that's kind of what i thought you were going to say about this which is this applies to a certain class of companies not most startups and probably not places that a lot of people are going to end

SPEAKER_00: up working at because 37 signals is only so big um but don't we want to create an economy in which people can work a little bit less i feel like we talk about this usually as a as a a crisis like if

SPEAKER_20: we work less than 40 hours the we're all going to hell in a hand basket and i'm just kind of curious like if that's the world we're trying to build jason from your view this week in startups is brought to you by perspective ai surveys they never capture what customers are really thinking that's why we

SPEAKER_00: use perspective ai real insights straight from your customers and the first two months are on us just go to get perspective.ai twist dev stats dev stats translates complex engineering metrics into a shared language everyone at your company can understand get 20 off by going to dev stats.com twist and uber ai solutions bad data bad ai your ai is only as good as the data it learns from uber that's right uber ai solutions now works with enterprises around the world to source label evaluate and scale real world high quality data for every industry everywhere so that you can focus on building the next big thing high quality data equals smarter and faster ai go to uber.com twist all right everybody welcome

SPEAKER_23: back to this week in startups it's wednesday it's october 29th yeah time continues to march on lots

SPEAKER_09: in the news i noticed open ai did their restructuring i noticed we're going to have nuclear power plans to

SPEAKER_06: power all these ai um data centers and that uh they're not hiring young people and they're laying off everybody so yes correct just a little bit in the news this week um but i guess at the start of

David Friedberg: the show i hate to talk about myself but we have a little announcement we do and it involves which is

SPEAKER_30: one of your favorite countries in the entire world although for a slightly different reason

SPEAKER_05: this time hmm yeah so uh pretty excited uh to announce that we will be bringing our founder

SPEAKER_06: university to japan uh as many people know i have a love of japan the people the nation the culture and the skiing and i go every year uh to do a little pilgrimage and uh get some of that j-pow the japanese powder we will be kicking off on november 14th i will go to tokyo to announce our 10-week program and uh this will culminate with an immersion week in san francisco and a demo day so all the great startups and founders that launch uh from the founder university will come to san francisco and spend a week with us and um it'll be great because i i've always had great admiration for the startup ecosystem in japan they are incredibly innovative they make very interesting products both hardware software and have for many decades and so we're going to build that bridge between silicon valley and japan and look for great ways to um work together now i need an analyst a researcher and analyst to come work here at launch so if you know somebody who speaks japanese fluently they could be japanese american they could be a japanese expat living here in the states

SPEAKER_09: who wants to split their time between two amazing cities and hang out with me doing it it's austin and tokyo is where you will be uh living and um yeah you got to be fluent in english and in japanese you can

SPEAKER_06: just apply by emailing japan at launch dot co we don't have the dot com yet but launch we'll keep trying for 10 years uh japan at launch dot co and just tell me a little bit about yourself my team uh will review the applications you can be right out of school uh you could just be highly technically savvy we'll train you up on what we do in terms of mentoring um and finding resources for and supporting founders but we need to have boots on the ground for these programs and as you know i am going to be in uh riyadh next week for the launch of founder university in riyadh so the sun officially never

SPEAKER_34: sleeps on the jcal empire now it is literally now i think we're going to be in three very disparate

SPEAKER_03: time zones very very disparate time zones i will say you know i always thought we needed to replace the british empire jason i just didn't think that you were going to try to do it single-handedly

SPEAKER_38: with ai like everything else the old saying is so true garbage in garbage out without the right training data you're not going to get great results but my pals at uber they're now working with enterprises all over the world to source label evaluate and scale high quality real data for your startup uber is one of my favorite companies in the planet because they demonstrated their ability to scale and to build great products first in the rideshare market then they figured out uber eats and then they moved on to autonomous driving and all of this was only possible because of a deep understanding of how to collect label understand and analyze data now with uber ai solutions you can put the team and tools that turned uber into one of the world's best companies to work for you partnering with top talent and experts from uber's global network what better partner to help you scale your business than the company that organizes over 36 million rides every single day book a demo right now by going to uber.com twist that's uber.com twist uh and uh it's very exciting because we're also

SPEAKER_09: going to be bringing the angel university there which is my course um based on my book where i just help people learn about angel investing and we're doing all of this with the japanese external trade organization known as jetro and so they are dedicated to promoting uh trade and investment between japan and other nations you may have seen uh are amazing extraordinary fantastic president trump has uh done was just in japan and so i am turning into trump jr and i will be in japan as well doing business deals but uh apparently and i'm not sure where on the docket this story is but we're definitely going to be talking about it uh we're going to be building more nuclear power plants thanks to this relationship with the japanese and their trade organization yeah so the us is going to underwrite

SPEAKER_00: about 80 billion dollars worth of new nuclear reactors with westinghouse and japan comes into this because if you recall jason the current trade agreement between our two nations involves some japanese investment into the us so some of that capital is going to flow into these nuclear reactors now it's not all just gifts from the government uh in exchange for capital from the us the us gets a 20 percent share in any dividends paid out by westinghouse that exceed 17.5 billion and there is an equity stake possible if essentially westinghouse is worth at least 30 billion then it has to go public and then the usg gets a stake as well we don't know exactly how much money japan is going to be putting into this transaction but it is i think good to see aggressive investment in nuclear power here in the states i think we all are very aware of how much more power we need though i will say just as a caveat this does not solve our grid and transmission problems but it does at least start the ball rolling towards

SPEAKER_05: more power here in the states yeah this is a uh a little bit of a complicated deal i saw bloomberg

SPEAKER_06: was like this is convoluted and i just read their story on it um we are going to underwrite this uh we being uh the us government but we're going to be underwriting it with some amount of the um capital coming from japan uh and in return for their participation i'm unclear as to what they get but the us is going to get a 20 share in any dividends that come out of westinghouse above 17.5 billion yeah and then um if this does come to pass in the next three years and westinghouse's valuation which is a private company currently i understand if that becomes worth 30 billion the company is forced to ipo and the government our government us gets an equity stake um and uh you remember i

SPEAKER_08: guess it was besant who talked about at the ai summit we had over the summer with all in

SPEAKER_06: that they he had just closed up this 550 billion dollar investment package and when i was talking to him i talked about this on all in i talked about it here he couldn't shut up about nuclear and so this is a another one of these win-win-wins you can disagree with many things uh in the 47th administration or the 46th or pick any administration one thing uh that they're getting

SPEAKER_09: right i believe is investing in infrastructure because if we're going to win the ai raise we're going to need power and if we don't get this power yeah we need lots of it and if we don't get this power dialed in um quickly from all different sources we're going to have a real problem with uh pr yeah because energy prices keep going up energy prices are not insignificant if you're in a household that makes under i don't know a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand in household income you know that that electrical bill for 500 a month or 800 a month or 300 a month i mean it adds up to thousands of dollars a year and if it goes up 10 20 percent people are going to feel that and they're starting to and it's creating a negative perception of ai because the public is now starting to put this together alex uh you're building ai solutions great they require a lot of power great uh my cousin who's an uber driver and my brother who's doing doordash while they're in college and my other second cousin who's in college for computer science can't get a job and the uber drivers are going away because they'll be in waymos and the doordash has their own delivery robot and the reward we get for everybody losing their jobs higher prices is higher prices this is going to be i mean if you want to talk about a revolution and the beginnings of one when you see mom donnie winning uh when you see the cost of living going up it's it creates um resentment and then that resentment will happen in the hopefully uh you know when people go vote but hopefully they don't vote for socialists and we don't kill capitalism but i would be lying if i didn't say i was concerned with the game on the field uh yeah but i was excited about this because nuclear is just such a clean great solution if you told me you're going to put a nuclear power plant within 50 miles of my home i would be like okay and when i said that on twitter somebody said hey dipshit here's a nuclear power plant within

SPEAKER_55: 50 miles of austin you're already living within one i said okay so i guess i'm i guess that's consistent that's how comfortable i am i didn't even know um i just want to say that's the point it's safer than

SPEAKER_00: anything else out there yeah it's it's incredibly safe i'll live next to a wind farm a solar farm a nuclear power plant a future fusion power plant bring it on anything but coal pretty much and i'm i'm good to go uh just for context though folks we have seen tech companies themselves line up deals with other nuclear power companies a number of deals in the ai hyperscaler and energy space include google plus next era meta plus constellation amazon and x energy and google and kairos so we're doing this at the national level we're doing this at the corporate level and i'll just say jason 10 points to the trump administration for doing this minus 10 points for killing off wind and solar projects why can't we have all of them that's my good news is the the not wind wind is a bit

SPEAKER_09: expensive right now but solar is so cheap that even taking away the subsidies uh which there's an argument for taking away subsidies from a lot of these things sure um you know if the free market is working and you don't need to accelerate it in the case of ai i mean this thing's regulatory bound local uh there's a lot of these things are not like putting up solar farms let's just leave it at that uh you know for sure for sure and i wanted to just point out um i asked producer claude just tell us remind us the 10 largest economies in the world uh by gdp and their populations and their gdp per capita and um it's really interesting people forget just how amazing japan is in this ranking japan is

SPEAKER_06: still the third largest economy in the world at 4.2 trillion behind the 27 trillion for the united states and 18 trillion uh for china and then you have germany india united kingdom uh in fourth fifth and sixth and then france italy brazil canada uh and so it is a not a giant company right not a giant country at 125 million but that's a pretty impressive gdp and thank you to our friends over at claude yes

SPEAKER_00: and you can't go ahead yeah you can't do everything we're doing without a paid plan over at claude from anthropics so if you want to get 50 off your first three months of claude pro just go to claude dot ai twist to get started we live and die by claude thank you anthropic on that point though jason uh i was really curious about how nvidia's market cap which we'll talk about in a second compared to the aggregate stock markets of different nations how many more countries is nvidia worth more than and just totally you know just found out this morning that it turns out uh japan has the third largest stock market by capitalization at uh 6.25 trillion dollars only falling behind the us and china so it really is an enormous economy and an enormously wealthy nation i want to bring up something else jason that's a little bit off from where we just were on the energy side of things instead talk about humans there's been a theme on the show for ever since i got here that companies are either not hiring or reducing their team sizes and so when we think about taking care of employees we don't talk about attrition that much it's just not the thing we're kind of tuning for i think as an industry but uh our friends over at 37 signals dhh and jason freed uh are talking today quite a lot about their use of sabbaticals this is a six-week break for workers in their third year at the company as part of their overall kind of like kind setup for their staff including four-day work weeks from may through september and this struck me as just out of the blue because we're talking about laying off 14 000 people at amazon not trying to keep people so one are you in favor of sabbaticals of this type and two uh are they just drinking different kool-aid than everyone else one of the great challenges of

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SPEAKER_06: dot com slash twist so they are a highly profitable uh software company that has existed for a long time with a loyal base of users and it is um pretty reliable uh that those revenue streams people

SPEAKER_08: who use base cam they just love it they're never going to stop using it okay period full stop so when

SPEAKER_06: you start a company and you don't have a bunch of investors which they don't i think they bought out bezos who was a their only investor uh back in the day they can build the world they want to live in now you remember they had a whole um dei woke thing happen at their company where people wanted to bring all their opinions to work and debate it on slack just like a coinbase and we had this sort of pendulum swing the other way hey if you're at coinbase you're here to do one thing you know provide crypto solutions to the world if you're at 37 signals they took a similar approach hey if you want to be here uh you're here to make great productivity software full stop and that's it and then here's an incredible pay package i think both companies just said hey if you want to opt out we get it so during that culture war which we forget about but i guess that was 2017 to you know covet basically um they went through that then whoever's left what's happening today is

SPEAKER_09: companies are getting more efficient if the company gets more efficient and you own a business you really appreciate stability you really appreciate the fact that alex shows up three days a week and has a suit and tie on or i can tell you about the ties um he has a press shirt on don't make me buy

SPEAKER_10: ties you never know um so you you start to appreciate that right and then uh when you lose a couple of

SPEAKER_09: video editors you know because they want to go make the next great movie or they want to be a screenplay writer you're like oh my god i own this business and i'm going through this again i got to hire that person oh you know start the process again it becomes a distraction from growing your business so uh these kind of offerings seem crazy if you were running a large company and they would be they would create entitlement they could create abuse on the margins however with a small company okay you can make a lot of uh decisions like this that are quixotic but you can be 20 inefficient over the summer or for four months you can be if six weeks is like giving over three years is like giving people an extra two weeks of vacation essentially if you've built a company that's resilient and you have plenty of people and you're over staffed by 20 it doesn't matter if people go on sabbatical for six weeks so you can build companies like that now if you tried this strategy and you were up against open ai and xai you would fail miserably so you do need to understand the game on the field if you had venture capitalists and you tried this and the company wasn't growing they'd be like hey maybe people should come in on friday since we're not growing but we will see in the united states i predict okay uh by the end of our lifetime the emergent of the emergence of a four-day work week i think you know a four-day you know not this like five six hours that people are working and going and getting marches and yoga whatever like you know the full-on 10-hour day four 10-hour days might actually for some people's rhythm be better than oh yeah five eight-hour days or five of these like six-hour days where you do a life in the thing so i think it's worth noting here because you have to know the game on the field in the context the context is highly profitable company extremely stable revenue no investors two owners they can do what they want and they can pursue whatever they want i remember when i worked in new york i would go to chanel and we managed their it systems uh like the luxury brand and they all were allowed to leave work at 12 o'clock or 12 30 on fridays during the summer summer fridays yeah fridays condé and asked the same thing but they had to get in at 8 a.m so they had to like put it in at least a half day at work and yeah you know they were very pampered everybody had an assistant nobody was really working uh you know it was they were selling twenty thousand dollar handbags so let's just leave it at that that's the equivalent of 37 signals they're they're chanel in this equation they're not grinding it out versus 20 competitors who are going to eat their lunch

SPEAKER_20: yeah question about this because that's a kind of what i thought you were going to say about this which is this applies to a certain class of companies not most startups and probably not places that a lot of people are going to end up working at because 37 signals is only so big

SPEAKER_00: um but don't we want to create an economy in which people can work a little bit less i feel like

SPEAKER_20: we talk about this usually as a as a crisis like if we work less than 40 hours the we're all going to hell in a handbasket and i'm just kind of curious like if that's the world we're trying to build

SPEAKER_06: jason from your view depends on the culture you're in america and uh japan and china want to be at the top of that gdp list and if you look further down france and italy um you know they uh are known for maybe not wanting to move up that list but wanting to have a better quality of life so you can pick the culture you're in um and then if you were to look at the outlier companies the greatest companies in the world if you pull up a list of by market cap it's no coincidence that the top companies by market cap come out of the united states china and then once in a while you know when you get down past 25 you got aramco on there from saudi and you've got lvmh from france um but you don't really have many outside of no uh when's the i mean aramco and lvmh putting aramco's number eight right and then so not counting

SPEAKER_29: china and u.s companies you have aramco at eight and then you do have one company from south korea

SPEAKER_84: samsung you have asml what number is samsung samsung is 22 and asml is 25 and then asml located

SPEAKER_29: asml is right here it's dutch jason that's right they make the fab machines famously for tsmc

SPEAKER_20: and then the first country from france number 33 lvmh just besting proctor and gamble here in the us

SPEAKER_00: so i i don't disagree with any of that um but i i'm just i i guess as we work on human robotics as we work on automation as we work on more intelligent digital systems i don't know i think could be kind of cool everyone could work four days a week hard for those four days but it it i we haven't really managed to uh give humans extra time for arts and philosophy and i think that we

SPEAKER_65: should keep in mind that that was a goal at some point giving people more of their life back well if

SPEAKER_06: you think about it uh youtube and podcasting and crowdfunding and patreon uh and patreon is actually named after patronage um is actually made a pretty big comeback and it's been done in a kind of capitalistic way the people who do patreons are making full-time salaries in many cases but

SPEAKER_09: working the hours in which they prefer so that opportunity is available for rugged individualists and brave people who start companies i do think as a society what we'll see this manifest itself in two ways the 54 tax in new york under mondami is the largest in the nation uh followed by i think california uh just right behind it by maybe three or four less points and then we talked about on all in this floating of the wealth tax hey anybody who's a billionaire is going to have to pay five percent on their assets so if you have a billion dollars in i don't know meta shares and you were you know

SPEAKER_08: some senior executive there who hit it out of the park you just have to give 50 million dollars one time which means you'd have to sell 100 million in shares uh to the government i guess uh or maybe you would not have to pay tax on selling those you have to pay the capital gains and then pay the wealth tax

SPEAKER_09: so you get hit twice um we're gonna there's a reason why that's getting popular and those ideas are floating and they're going to win with certain folks because they would like to see the government

SPEAKER_08: get bigger and then if the government gets bigger uh they can do things like provide universal health

SPEAKER_09: care and hire more nurses and orderlies and doctors and then you could hire twice as many teachers there is a possibility that you would even hear tech and rich people endorse this you might hear uh in the next couple of years if the wealth keeps polarizing like this you can't make your product

SPEAKER_38: better without listening to your customers but how are you supposed to actually figure out what your customers want you can send out a survey of course but people just want to give the right answer in that case they're not really giving you their honest opinion well at this week in startups we actually found the perfect answer it's called perspective ai their expertly trained ai conducts one-on-one interviews with your users based on your prompts and questions just tell their system whatever you want feedback on in simple language and they take care of the rest we've learned so much about our audience since teaming up with perspective ai reginald for example is a founder who listens and wants more quick hit faster paced content and an anonymous guy from canada gave us tons of helpful feedback about some audio syncing issues we've been having and we fixed them this is the kind of feedback that's invaluable when you're a founder who is product obsessed like you should be sign up today and get started in just a few minutes at getperspective.ai twist and you'll get your first two months free that's getperspective.ai twist where the top half owning equities keeps

SPEAKER_09: doing so well you will hear some folks who are notable and affluent and rich say you know what charge me a little bit in taxes and why don't we double the number of teachers and have them work four-day work weeks that would be a way to deal with unemployment so if it is true that you know the robots are going to replace a lot of people at amazon and amazon's laying off 30 000 white collar executives ups is you know letting go of management as well and the robots take the jobs of uh drivers and delivery uh individuals or factory workers you might see some folks who have benefited from that say yeah charge me a little bit more in taxes and let's increase the number of teachers the number of people who work at parks increase the budget for that because i really don't want the guillotines that's bad is they're bad i mean i was i really don't care if i paid a little more in taxes or not it doesn't really change my lifestyle i think it's like one of the things rich people need to also consider uh with when it comes to tax cuts like yeah yeah i think i think that's

SPEAKER_20: fair i am legitimately concerned about the health of labor and capital relations in this country over the next five or ten years not not just because of one mayoral election in one american city but because i think that the people who don't have money are doing much worse than people with money think they are and i think that's going to lead to um some surprises politically down the road and i think

SPEAKER_06: we should get ahead of them absolutely yeah i mean it's happening right now this is the conversation i did a tweet today where um the cost of living has gone up uh for everybody yeah but what i tried to explain to people is you know now um having moved from the bottom third to the top third of income earners

SPEAKER_106: uh in the country and perhaps maybe more uh which is embarrassing um and i got lucky 12 times so you know you know and a lot of things broke in my favor like being born at the right time putting all that

SPEAKER_06: aside um i do think um what i learned is rich people and affluent people they don't think about their cost of living and in fact they think about the opposite ilex they think what could i do to upgrade my cost of

SPEAKER_88: living okay maybe i should um get a new car maybe i should remodel my ski house maybe i should refurnish something maybe i should redo my wardrobe maybe i should get a chef to come twice a week to

SPEAKER_06: feed the family they actually think the opposite so one group of people is sorting a search result when they're shopping by lowest to highest price i always wonder who's doing high to low right the high to low is there why is the high to low there well some people when they're buying a sweater or a shirt i used to buy my shirts and i'd be looking for the cheapest white shirt when i started looking at shirts i said let me sort it from the top i want to know what the best is and why so now i'm looking at 800 bioni shirts okay that's too much oh etons 300 that feels like the right thing i used to pay 100 bucks a white shirt now i'm doing 200 or 300. they're looking to upgrade their lifestyle so that's important for founders to understand there's always some group of people who are willing to spend but i think the bottom half and this is where the job displacement if it is not managed properly and we can manage

SPEAKER_09: it we have managed it before if it's not managed properly and we keep doing tax cuts on the rich and we keep doing things that stimulate the stock market you know this is going to increase that

SPEAKER_20: chasm between the two groups of people yeah it's worrying uh jason i also have some data here for you on this just to kind of illustrate the point um if you look at the approval rating of the president just to bring in the kind of current temperature of the folks out there um one thing you'll see is that his uh net approval rating is most negative on inflation and prices which i think just goes to show how stretched the average consumer is and uh here is the data if anyone wants to get a closer look at it if you're on the audio version this just tracks changes and polling numbers for different vectors across the u.s market inflation prices jobs the economy taxes immigration and nat sec and um they're all trending down but inflation prices and jobs in the economy are where trump has lost

SPEAKER_09: the most ground i think people are mad inflation is yeah negative 33 it looks like 34 net approval so that's when you take the approve and the disapprove and you you subtract them from each other and you get you know people are disapproving on inflation and prices when the truth is inflation has been modest uh you know like 3 percent 2.8 percent it hasn't been crazy uh and um if inflation isn't crazy and people are not feeling good about it you have to wonder why well there's also wages uh and wages haven't been booming they've been muted for many years uh in fact many decades wages haven't grown so the confounding part about inflation is it's not enough to have inflation not increase because the prices of a steak are jaw-dropping even for me i look at a steak now and i'm like wait what it's 40 for this whole food steak it's 50 for this tomahawk it's 60 for this tomahawk am i at a restaurant i gotta cook this myself for 16 bucks and it's like yeah steak's really expensive now it's it's not the um and it if it doesn't go back down people are having a permanent price increase uh which is you know the the the

SPEAKER_100: reason why uh this is polling so bad if you want to just put that into a chart form jason here's a

SPEAKER_20: chart from fred this is how consumers feel inflation which is here is the uh the covid um post-covid inflation bump and then here's inflation since then economists will say oh it's down to three percent gain but the working person just feels the the total gap here in price change so that's just

SPEAKER_00: a reminder for everybody uh but look who has joined us it's our friend shashir uh i was gonna say from grammarly which is what your company was called last time we had you on the show and you bought super human but shashir i think you have a brand new corporate uh identity to talk about we do we do nice

SPEAKER_127: to be back on the show and uh uh yeah a couple brands that i know you all know well and love well

SPEAKER_106: so we're excited about that uh of course i'm huge fans of grammarly and was the first investor along with darmesh who raul told was also the first investor he told us both were the first investors i don't know who got their wire in first but um uh darmesh probably got in first because he was probably doing it from his personal account have to do it through a whole series of darmesh is fast he's fash yeah um our friend who's the uh co-founder of hubspot of course uh and a great angel

SPEAKER_09: investor um but uh you have the amazing coda which we built the twist500.com list on the top 500 private companies uh superhuman which my whole team uses day in and day out and we pay for and grammarly which my whole team uses which we pay for uh so i think we might be getting some relief here you have three different brands tell us what you're announcing today yeah vis-a-vis the uh brands and the pricing

SPEAKER_142: all right so we're launching uh three big things today we're launching a new company name we're launching a new product uh we call superhuman go and we're launching the new suite uh so each of them

SPEAKER_144: are are separate but they do tie together uh in an important way the company name we're changing from

SPEAKER_09: grammarly to superhuman a much now that's a real decision you had to make very big superhuman is obviously a more expansive name okay we all want to be superhumans great it's a very aspirational awesome name when i heard that name from raul when he was starting the company i loved it they're not and i am a name snob i love that name now grammarly though is one of those great iconic names and you have tens of millions of people 40 million daily active users yes 40 million people who love grammarly and they it is what you say it is it helps you have perfect grammar and spelling it

SPEAKER_06: makes you a better writer but you want to do more as a company so you are keeping that name but you're going to try to also have grammarly fall under the superhuman umbrella this is yeah i think that must

SPEAKER_142: have been a big debate yeah it's a huge debate i mean i think there are obviously companies that as

SPEAKER_144: their product suite expands we've seen other companies do it it's how google evolved into alphabet over time as you know i used to work on the youtube team and we started building a set of brands there i think similar similar here um so the i think the idea of a corporate brand being different than the than the product brands i don't think is uh is that surprising i think given the breadth of things we're doing i do think it's a very hard choice in the name itself i think this particular transition of pulling a sub-brand up to be the parent brand is not a very common one i was watching twitter this morning for what people were commenting and somebody made the list of all the companies that have done that before it's not a very long list of oh really uh yeah yeah what was on the list any notable ones on that the most famous one was probably sbc and at&t um where the sbc bought at&t and then turn at&t into the list uh another one was if davis uh j2 bought zif davis and i think you know there's obviously uh a a brand that felt like it appealed more directly and there's some similarity here that obviously the the the the biggest product in the set is is grammarly it's definitely the one uh that touches the most um the broadest audience but if we thought as we thought about a proper corporate brand that can house the breadth of ambition you know the superhuman was the obvious uh obvious choice and it's sort of reflective of you know in my mind i i was drawn to it for two reasons it's breadth uh but also it's it's message i mean i think the breadth is obvious superhuman can can apply to so many different products the empowerment message or the the alignment to our mission i think is

SPEAKER_142: is more interesting uh because the word we were drawn to i think a lot of people are drawn to the super part of the word but we we were actually drawn to human because you know from our perspective we're one of our unique approaches uh across the whole company but grammarly as our roots is that we are the ones that make people more human everybody else is trying to get ai to replace

SPEAKER_144: humans we're going the other way around you know when you use grammarly we'll we'll give you lots of assistance but at the end of the day you send that email you post that article you submit that essay it's still you we're just here to help you so from our perspective i got this line from one of our customers we spent the last 16 years turning people into super writers now we can spend the next few decades turning them into super humans better versions of themselves so okay so if the if

SPEAKER_00: the focus here is on empowering humans comma you also just launched a new ai agent tool companion

SPEAKER_159: thing seems to be a slight uh bit of um tension there no actually i think it's i think it's very

SPEAKER_142: aligned so right so second big announcement we launched a new product we're calling it superhuman

SPEAKER_144: go uh it's launching today you can go give it a try it's our new ai assistant product it's a platform that brings your network of proactive and personal ai assistants directly embedded into your work and the way to think about this is it really is taking the core technology layer of grammarly pulling it out as a platform for all agents um so i think last time i was on uh uh on the show i talked a little bit about that that idea that the the core uh ability that grammarly has is to bring ai directly into your surface and work right where you work and all of a sudden we can do that with a much broader set of use cases if you picture grammarly it's almost like you know you have this this english teacher on your shoulder that is helping you with your grammar and spelling everywhere you go now similar to grammarly but with a new set of such agents as we call them they can all sit on your shoulder too and so if you're a salesperson and you're writing an email you can now not only have grammarly help you you know tune your grammar make sure you sound upbeat but you also have your sales agent that can

SPEAKER_142: go make sure you pull all the right information from your crm you have your product marketing agent that makes sure you get the product information and your calendar agent tells you when you can actually

SPEAKER_49: meet the person and are you guys building all these agents or are you going to expect the customers to make their own agents or is it going to be kind of one agent that just does everything yeah so so we

SPEAKER_144: are building a set of agents the most important of which is grammarly uh and we're going to try to make sure there's a great set of first-party agents from us we're opening up the platform so many other people can do it today uh about a dozen other partners also launched their agents with us uh some really exciting ones in that set and we're enabling customers to build their own so if you have something that is going to connect to your own internal system or so on i think that's a very common use case um and you know in that way we can open up this platform this ability of bringing ai

SPEAKER_165: right to where you work to any of these products and tools yeah that seems really wise to me the thing

SPEAKER_06: i love about grammarly is that it persistently follows me around my desktop it's on my keyboard on my phone and it feels like it's starting to learn and become a little more personalized which is to say the name calicanis it should understand after a certain amount of time and in a company and i talked to uh raul about this incessantly with superhuman was multiplayer mode yeah and multiplayer mode is so powerful because in superhuman when you send an email thread sometimes it's like oh there's a customer

SPEAKER_09: support thread i really should get the customer rep cc'd on this so now i'm adding people oh and i

SPEAKER_06: should have the head of customer support do this oh and i should also have the sales manager now you get three people and then everybody's email boxes flooded and everybody's day is trying to get to inbox zero which superhuman help should do but wouldn't it be better if you could just start a chat alongside the email so now you can just hit the little chat button and say who's managing this uh in our case uh who's the primary contact for this startup and are they aware that they had an acquisition offer and then i can just cc one person that person can cc somebody and now we've got a thread going alongside the email and you don't have to forward the email because the email is right there so now you've lowered the amount of emails and you've created a parallel universe and

SPEAKER_09: those kind of parallel universes kind of speak to what you're doing with agents as well because the agent can then it would know oh in the coded database the primary contact for that startup is

SPEAKER_169: this person right here they are in your hub spot or here they are in your sales force and this is what everybody wants um yeah maybe let me just break those two thoughts apart i mean i think that the

SPEAKER_144: collaboration part the feature you mentioned we call that shared conversations in superhuman mail um super popular and just so people can uh see all the value of it not only does it help you pull on the right people in the conversation those people are not on the mail thread so i think you've always had the problem of you know you send a mail and then you forward it to a group of people and then you get a reply from the customer and then they have to get remember to forward it again so you sort of get this side channel alongside the conversation i use it all the time with customers with candidates with

SPEAKER_142: yeah you know with support issues so on the other thing you said that i think is really important is what do people really love about grammarly it's that it works everywhere and we we work in a million unique applications that's every web app every desktop app every mobile app you know many people know us from our chrome extension but we actually work in everything we'll work in you know word and slack and we'll work on like you said uh on the keyboard we can use

SPEAKER_144: we can work in your phone as well and so that ability to bring that set of context to all your

SPEAKER_173: applications i think is very unique to our approach and i to be honest i don't think there's a lot of players in the market that are doing anything close to that no it's kind of operating system level

SPEAKER_49: information on the user which basically boils down to google with chrome os windows and microsoft and mac os at apple and you guys yeah i mean interestingly i think it's deeper right i mean i think the the

SPEAKER_142: operating system can do a lot of things in your windowing system and so on but just you know as

SPEAKER_144: an example we've done the hard work to integrate right into your google doc so we show up with an underline under the perfect word when you're writing in a desktop app like slack we can show up right in the middle of it and tell you that you're about to schedule this uh this uh meeting and actually three

SPEAKER_142: of the people can't be there or you're talking about this customer and they're actually their contract

SPEAKER_150: is up next week not this week uh and so you you can you can bring all that information all the certain context you know even the operating system players aren't really getting there yeah so this

SPEAKER_00: is the question that i want to ask you which is you talked about in your post announcing the change that you built with grammarly essentially a mass transit system with only one car grammarly on it and now you're adding more cars to it uh once you have the tracks in place you can put as many trains on them as you want to share so what are you going to buy next i don't know yet let's see i think there's a

SPEAKER_142: lot of the the and i actually maybe i should uh answer that more directly with the the company's

SPEAKER_144: going through a massive transition obviously the multi-product transition is a big one it leads to

SPEAKER_142: us having a suite of offerings that you can buy in a bundle we'll come back to that i'm sure um the but it also means we're a platform so there was a number of companies that we want to bring on this platform and the de facto case is going to be we work with you as partners and there's now dozens of

SPEAKER_144: them uh you know maybe one good example uh you guys i think are probably familiar with kim scott at

SPEAKER_181: radical candor um yeah she's been on the program i knew her in her google yeah so she wrote this

SPEAKER_144: really popular book she got i told her about what we were doing here she got really excited the team

SPEAKER_142: built an agent it's a it's a pretty obvious idea in retrospect i mean if you read the book um you know the book is fantastic but what do you do with the book you take the book you stick it on your shelf you forget about it you know what if your radical candor agent could actually follow you everywhere and and really help you with your messaging and following the principles of the book everywhere

SPEAKER_144: you go so that's a great example of a company we can now work with we're not going to buy radical candor but we are definitely going to partner with them and work with them um and so i think that will become our our default motion is to partner with companies there are cases where we want to uh buy and own products i think those are really cases where we wanted to be part of the core platform and they're the reason okay it was so important to own coda and so important to own superhuman mail is that they're the surfaces you actually work in um and i'm sure we'll do others uh but i think the

SPEAKER_165: the predominant motion for us will be actually partnership what i love about this is right now

SPEAKER_106: i'm playing three different people in your organization i pay for superhuman i pay for

SPEAKER_09: grammarly and i pay for coda happy to do so it's you know thousands of dollars a year each but i get uh plenty of value for those dollars but here uh you can get superhuman free with uh a little bit of coda and go and grammarly you can pay for pro and that's only 12 bucks a month um and you get

SPEAKER_06: grammarly coda and go or you can get business and i guess i get everything there and mail and mail right so this is like a really interesting uh offering because i don't know if i'm going to save money or not what if somebody's paying for all three do i save money or do i net out you'll definitely save money

SPEAKER_144: i mean i think the if you just and you're probably on the the equivalent of the business tier on all products um and so you'll you'll end up saving money and the and the principle of it is to allow the products to spread and try to make sure that if you're a super fan of one of the products you can easily get access to the others as well um you know bundling is a topic that i've been um somewhat known for and spent a lot of time on i wrote i wrote a paper about it a while ago called formats of bundling uh end up joining the spotify board to help build out the spotify bundle i think there's a there's a lot of different core concepts there but the the main idea you know if i just start with for example if you happen to be a male user or a grammar user or a coda user you know the if you're a super fan of one of them you might find interest in the others um but we we don't have to convince you as much to try them because you buy one you kind of get a taste of all of them and it eases the

SPEAKER_173: ability for people to get to a multi-product state so that's very what do you think about these um

SPEAKER_06: automatic transcribers uh for zoom calls etc you don't have one in the current offering i don't

SPEAKER_144: think we don't although the fireflies team did build an agent for this launch so that there's a there's a fireflies agent and oh cool um there'll be more i think there it's a starting point for what they'll be able to do with it so i do think it's an obvious platform offering um yeah i think the the and i'm really excited about that space when i think that there's an enormous amount of knowledge that is not written that's why i was asking his voice and so i think that's really important uh you know personally i think the biggest problem with them is that they all force me to change the rest of my tools too that when i when i use one of these note takers it goes and sticks the notes somewhere else and you know if i happen to be someone who is trying to take notes in uh you know a coda or a google doc or maybe i'm in salesforce or greenhouse or and i'm just trying to take my notes there you know none of these tools really let me do that um and so i think we provide that you know what we call the ice superhighway or this this set of this set of uh um uh tracks to be able to get those agents to work right where i work so that that's what we'll do in this category yeah it looks like i'm spending

SPEAKER_106: two grand a month 24 grand a year on all three of these and maybe i save a little bit and that's all

SPEAKER_06: good um and you reward your loyal customers yeah right now i had a uh air traffic control issue i

SPEAKER_09: would pop on a zoom or on a podcast granola would say i'll record zoom would say i'm recording and then notion launched uh their own recorder and was like i'm and we're like well we're paying for that as well so i banned granola i was like guys hey i can't pay for three different products just because one third likes the interface if you really want to pay for it pay for it yourself yeah but we got we got to standardize on something here and um then i guess the last piece the last tower to fall for you is to start thinking about uh zoom uh or huddles on slack and then slack or teams itself you're building this team product i was always talking to raul about when would we get a calendar and uh you know zoom meetings and slack inside of superhuman we got the calendar but we don't have uh audio video conferencing nor do we have uh you know messaging and a slack like competitor what are your thoughts

SPEAKER_144: on those last two yeah i mean i think if you think broadly about our our stack you know the bottom of our stack is now this new product go that's our platform for running agents everywhere uh on top of that we're building a set of agents so that's uh the grammarly being the most important one we're building a a number of other agents including a set that connect to basically every application you can think of and opening up that marketplace and then in a small set of cases where we believe that the surfaces are not really built for agents we're going to building the first party surface as well so in in every case you know you can go use the existing tools but we're trying to build the the premium version uh the deserved version for each of these each of these categories and we started with two uh entry points one where people do their productive work that's where coda fits in and that's you know you produce your artifacts it's your whether it's your documents or your tables and spreadsheets and presentations so on and the other one was in communication and we started with the superhuman mail product so these are the two that we that we worked on and we'll branch from there and i think coda already represents a pretty broad set of productivity tools and you'll see us add to that set as well and similarly for the superhuman mail product it represents you know the the base of communication and it's already started started broadening from there you can you've already probably seen on the calendar side for instance we're awfully close to covering all the use cases that you would need a separate calendar product for and sure we're working our way methodically through uh through the other ones but we want to you know in cases where we think a first party surface can do a better job uh we're

SPEAKER_130: going to make sure that we have the best possible offering for it amazing uh do we have any questions

SPEAKER_192: from our live audience marcus were there any questions from the live audience yeah one that i

SPEAKER_20: saw was uh according to the superhuman mail website you can spend 40 bucks a month on the business plan

SPEAKER_00: there shashir and uh 33 bucks a month for the entire suite are you not giving away too much value

SPEAKER_125: slash revenue that's kind of the tone of the question uh first of all just to correct them the pricing is

SPEAKER_142: uh 40 a month is a monthly price 33 a month is uh is the if you pay annual price the pricing is about

SPEAKER_144: the same um but it does mean it's what i like to call a one one of n bundle so maybe just a small amount of bundling theory is that when you think about a bundle that has say it has uh you know 100 different products in it you could say of uh if you look at the bundle you can assess the value of the bundle based on how many products in the bundle you need to be a super fan of in order for the bundle to make sense maybe to give you an example uh the adobe suite i think i have like 80 different products but if you uh they're each price of 30 bucks each but at 87 you get all of them um and so it's a what i call a three event bundle that's how that's how i think about adobe uh we decided in this case to start with what we call a one event bundle so if you are a paid and happy user of superhuman mail um then for the same price you will also get uh two now three other products uh alongside that um same the other way around so the the the coda if you're a loyal coda customer and you're paying for the coda team tier it's about roughly the same price um you can now say well

SPEAKER_173: now i can deploy mail grammarly and go to all my users as well here's a fun question from andre uh

SPEAKER_106: what do you think about training users to write in the style of a specific thinker like duskievsky or kant is it can't or can't caught caught uh through sentence suggestions with llms it's now feasible

SPEAKER_08: what do you think about yeah helping people uh yeah there's actually um before grammarly there was um

SPEAKER_09: uh write like um hemingway there was like a hemingway app that was like hey here's how to write like hemingway use like five word sentences which can get a little annoying i mean i think i think no

SPEAKER_142: simi cullens i think it's a really interesting idea actually but i think i think the way they phrased

SPEAKER_144: it almost felt like it's just fun but there's actually a lot of utility to it i mean i gave an example earlier with with kim scott and radical candor if i want to write more like how kim thinks i should write i want kim sort of sitting next to me with the marker and saying here's how you should write differently um if i go in a different direction and think about schools for instance we have a big partnership uh for example with arizona state university and they're building a whole set of agents on on this platform as well and for them this is about bringing your teacher to you so you you want your professor to be next to you and not not in this you know today's interaction where they give you homework and then three weeks later they mark it up and give you feedback what are they giving you feedback right as you go so it's it's not so much about you know i think they're right like uh like so on is is like that sounds like fun but what does your english teacher really want you to do or what's your history teacher want you to what's your chemistry teacher want you to do so i think there's a number of cases for that that that allow that to go

SPEAKER_00: from fun to utility all right we haven't again you give the other one yeah well we have another question uh here from uh zeer app and they're curious about customers that are afraid to share their private emails with others i wanted to ask about this too shashir which is just the privacy element of this you're bringing in even more of my information into your um into your domain what are you doing to make sure that it's both safe from leaking and also safe from potential abuse

SPEAKER_142: inside the company yeah i mean i think it's a i think the trust is a at the core of everything

SPEAKER_144: we do all all three and now four products start with trust security and privacy right at the core um i think grammarly has uh has built a lot of technology around this over the years to make sure that we're anonymous anonymizing privatizing so on all the data so that it can simultaneously be personal for you but not exposed to to anyone else um same with coda and superhuman we know that

SPEAKER_06: that's that's a core of what uh what everybody expects okay i but there's such an awesome i guess there's there's two levels to this there's the awesomeness of um having the whole organization flowing um and management understanding what's happening in the organization so if you live in a non-siloed organization with an open floor plan and everybody hears everything and everything's transparent you know like a netflix or a you know an amazon a modern company might be like pretty upfront about those things maybe people don't care about it as much in a siloed organization maybe people are very concerned about that but there is a whole another category of software that i feel like you're going to collide with which is employee management software or optimization software

SPEAKER_220: workforce analytics software is do you mean the stuff that tracks us on our work yeah basically

SPEAKER_06: so things that you know make sure that people don't i don't know download a database or use their

SPEAKER_09: computer for something they're not supposed to um but these things also and i talked to one of the providers like could it like suggest to people like oh yeah you're talking about this these three people in the organization know about that customer you should talk to them there's some way for it yeah you know kind of make you aware that oh you work in you know ibm's office in albany you really should be talking to the people in fort lauderdale because they're doing something you know where they're

SPEAKER_08: doing an integration you know with a trade organization and and they probably would have the right answers for you so that's have you started to think about that yeah absolutely and i think as

SPEAKER_144: we think about agents in particular and building this agents platform it's a it's a really important tenant of uh like you said there's a trade-off there because you want to bring people information that might be usual use usable for them but you need to you need to understand and respect the permissions underneath them the the agents platform is actually being built on top of a component we pulled out of the coda product uh that we call coda packs and and coda packs were and have long been the platform for integration that code is probably the thing code is most known for is that coda integrates it was about eight or nine thousand of these packs that have been built everything from salesforce to jira to uh so on um there's eight or nine hundred of them that are public in the gallery and those were all built with this uh you know i think we started that project seven eight years ago now so we've layered on many layers of privacy and security in that so they can sync and understand the permissions of the underlying data set so that make sure that it doesn't send those anywhere else it's also a set of controls for your it team to go and all layer on top of that and say even if those permissions are there we've decided that only the finance team should have access to this uh we want you to respect that boundary um uh throughout the platform so i think that the core of each of these products is being built with uh you know in each of these teams has been in front of some of the toughest organizations in the world and you know gotten you know uh all deployed with thousands of of uh uh uh you know every it team and security team has scrutinized them and we're

SPEAKER_05: bringing them together into one safe environment all right listen continued success i'm a shareholder

SPEAKER_06: via my super human share so i am rooting for you the logo is great by the way over your right shoulder people who are watching can see the logo and i really love what you do with the logo because it's a person but it's also the navigation it uh yeah it's like a one of those little arrows that's like the cursor but with the head on it and it kind of points you in the right direction of what to do next so how much does it cost to do this kind of like branding madness you

SPEAKER_142: spend a hundred we do a lot of it we did a lot of it in house but i will say one thing to note about it is you know all three companies grammarly code and superhuman had a letter as their logo so picking a character was actually a really good really big choice and you'll actually see it in the product uh

SPEAKER_144: one of the things we love about it is that it animates very well so you did this yeah you know it feels like a person feels like your assistant that's living living next to you and i think that allows it to feel active allows it to feel like it's working alongside you so i'm really excited

SPEAKER_09: about the logo hey chime in on the uh the big debate of the moment which is um we're seeing places like amazon ups uh you know maybe some big layoffs on all sides of the business white collar blue collar and then you know people talking about massive efficiency gains so obviously uh companies are doing more with less internally uh and having run companies and worked at these companies what are you seeing game on the field wise is it the case where it's easier for you to empower your team with tools first and then hire second uh how do you think about this static team size that everybody's seems to be deploying in the world i think it's more a shift in skill sets i don't

SPEAKER_144: think it's so much about the overall team size i think it's a different difference in what you need maybe to rewind time back to when i started technology i started at microsoft that was the first company i worked at at that time your average development team was one pm two developers and four testers that was a you know four out of seven people on the team were testers you won't find any silicon valley company where over half your team is testers anymore because we automated a lot of it you also wouldn't see any silicon valley company with less people than microsoft had then because we created more opportunity and more things to build and you know in my mind there are certain roles that are going to feel less necessary and that's okay um but there's going to be others that we're just going to push human ingenuity in other another direction so i i think these are all small shifts uh amazon is shifting a few employees they also employ employ over a million people um and i suspect they're going to continue to grow um but as they do it they'll shift around the skill sets they need

SPEAKER_00: actually one last question before you go which is we were talking about sabbaticals earlier this year and uh jason says that uh six weeks sabbaticals every three years as 37 signals do are luxury for companies that are profitable and not growing too quickly and don't have a lot of investor pressure i'm just curious if uh your newly reconstituted company will offer sabbaticals or if uh

SPEAKER_185: you're going to keep the nose of the grindstone we do i don't i don't think the idea of sabbaticals

SPEAKER_144: is uh um that controversial actually i think people do get burnt out i think that's okay

SPEAKER_173: um some people never take them some people do and you know i've generally found that people take them

SPEAKER_240: come back rejuvenated i think that's okay yeah all right dara moved it from five years to eight

SPEAKER_09: i think he was maybe you know having inherited a workforce maybe a workforce they got bloated he wanted to maybe trim back all these uh entitlements and and get people back to an office you believe in in office or remote what's your take on that we we're hybrid we do a lot in office but

SPEAKER_144: we're spread all over the world actually the company started in ukraine so that we have a we have a big team there and so we spread uh spread that direction as well um i mean i i deeply believe in creating in-person experiences some of that's by being in office we do a lot by bringing people together at regular uh intervals while you're around the one thing i'd say about it is that you want people to work hard um the way you do it is by creating an inspiring mission that they want to be a part of that's what motivates people first and foremost yeah i don't think you do it by checking the time clock more regularly while you want to make that possible you i think people want to work with other people that's why we do in office it's not because you know did that's the only way to get them to work you get you you know people do great work when they believe in what you're

SPEAKER_245: building yeah i i think i have found with young people i don't know if you have like a training program

SPEAKER_06: if you hire people you know out of school but we do and it really does help with that high bandwidth in-person culture at least at a venture firm investing in companies to be in person to have

SPEAKER_08: these discussions you know to have the let's go walk for a coffee and talk about this startup or this decision we're making did we make the right decision to not take our pro rata or not you know

SPEAKER_06: like these are um for young folks i think you know first five ten years in the workforce getting in person is just so essential for the mentorship and that's i think that might be where this kind of changes when you have kids or you're further along in your career and you have your choice of where to work hey listen everybody go check out superhuman.com and make sure you're using grammarly and code is the sleeper hit if you want to be super productive it's not an ed uh i just love these three

SPEAKER_09: products and it just happens to be that i loved two of them and then they bought my favorite product superhuman so i am so excited uh that you're all you're uh shepherding all this so well and i'm excited to see all the new products continued success hey thank you thanks for sure see you talk to you

SPEAKER_00: soon all right cheers uh every time he comes on i learn a couple things and he always challenges at least one thing that i'm thinking and i appreciate that it is um really great to see um how uh

SPEAKER_09: how he thinks about the brand and it takes a certain fearlessness to say yeah we need to we got this incredible brand that 40 million people are using but that brand is a feature of

SPEAKER_118: this bigger vision now yeah let's keep going you know let's keep turning over the cards and see where this hand leads us what else do we have on the docket uh next up on the docket today is nvidia

SPEAKER_00: reaching a five trillion dollar market cap just kind of a news update for everybody here we're going into jason as we talked about on monday the big technology earning cycle later today we'll hear from alphabet and amazon and uh microsoft i think um but in the wake in the middle of all that nvidia reached five trillion dollars which is probably the single most valuable company of all time which i thought was incredibly impressive we've talked also on the show ad nauseum frankly about there being an ai bubble risks they're off are we spending too much but it seems that the public markets are completely and entirely unconcerned i'm curious if you're surprised um you know if you look at the price earning

SPEAKER_09: ratio of nvidia it is uh reasonable i think 25 to 34 looking uh based on their uh projections of where they're going so it's not a situation where you have to suspend disbelief like palantir and it's got a you know and any uh extraordinary price earnings ratio or you know uh tesla right now where you're like well optimist and self-driving are going to dwarf the uh car business which makes total sense uh logically but this is one where listen they sell a product at a high margin people need them and there's a global market for this product and it's hitting on all cylinders they can't make enough of them and there aren't um there there are there's a very diverse group of buyers for this you have cloud providers yes you have governments uh you have you know you have different government agencies even like not just one government like uae buying a bunch or uh you know china buying a bunch but you have this specific group of intelligence uh you know the education group whatever they're going to buy a hundred thousand of these fifty thousand of these there will be competition and at some point the margin will be eroded away uh like happens in almost every business and then the question is can they have such an elite product that they can command a decent market and the other fear people have is the overbuild those are rational fears to have um but if you look at the price earnings ratio there's still

SPEAKER_29: room for that company to grow is i think that consensus which is why it keeps growing speaking of

SPEAKER_84: which jason here you go this is from y charts this is the forward price earnings ratio for nvidia over time and it's now up to i don't know 46 but that's no higher than it was back in january of 24.

SPEAKER_118: so and 46 is the trailing um i'm guessing this is the trailing pe this is this is forward this is forward for next year um okay yeah so that's pretty high here's the uh here's the uh trailing is 59.

SPEAKER_09: yeah so it's pretty rich actually uh it's double the rest of the market so it's pretty rich but it's still high growth if you look at their revenue chart um and their revenue growth it's pretty uh extraordinary how they're growing and they have years of orders in that order book i think everything is pinned off of open ai right now can open ai get to some level of revenue that makes logical sense for this build out you can't spend a trillion dollars and make a hundred billion that doesn't work you could spend a hundred billion and make a trillion sure can't spend a trillion and make a hundred billion and they're making whatever 15 billion i'm not sure exactly where it's at now the runway 12 15 billion and 13 billion was the last number that we heard yeah so we're we're we're in the billion a

SPEAKER_268: month club uh but they're spending a lot more than that so they're deeply in the red yeah the latest

SPEAKER_20: that's them all in yeah 10 moments is 1.4 trillion and 30 gigawatts of capacity over the next couple of years is what they're they're pipped to pay i don't believe that number i think that's the number

SPEAKER_100: that's not believable is that like a trump japan's gonna give us 550 billion dollars number kind of one of those like headline numbers that we kind of all go like it's probably a fraction of that

SPEAKER_06: well i mean in the trump case 80 billion of it seems to have shown up for these two reactors so yeah maybe half shows up um yeah so i think yeah maybe in his case of the 1.4 trillion it's 400

SPEAKER_09: billion but i don't think it's gonna be more than that that seems like a um it seems like a marketing

SPEAKER_06: became good to have the difference that you saw in the book being that money work knowing that the speakers they're learning about the scope and they're working through it's they're working on account for financial aid what we we do and they're looking for successful Because once the sovereign wealth funds, once NVIDIA stops investing in open AI, once, you know, SoftBank says no more. Yeah. At some point, people have bought enough shares in that company. They're going to want to wait and see if the revenue can catch up.

SPEAKER_09: So if they went from four or five billion last year to 12 this year, you know, and they're doubling revenue. Well, doubling revenue from 12 to 24 and then from 24 to 48 and then from 48 to 100, it's not actually enough.

SPEAKER_00: Not for their infrastructure spend. But what's interesting is you said that you think they may be saying that number just scared people off. I thought you were going to say they're announcing that number to try to bait their competitors into overbuilding. Because we also know that, you know, XAI is building a lot of capacity right now and Neocloud is building a lot of capacity right now.

SPEAKER_49: So I thought it was the other way around.

SPEAKER_118: Yeah, I think they have a lot of cleanup work to do there.

SPEAKER_124: And I saw yesterday or two days ago that they got permission from the California Attorney General to do their big flip.

SPEAKER_20: Yes, they have executed their conversion. Their nonprofit is now called the Open AI Foundation.

SPEAKER_00: It still is in charge of the for-profit entity, which is a public benefit corporation. The foundation will receive about $130 billion worth of equity in Open AI at a $500 billion valuation, Jason. That's about 26%. Microsoft in the newly rejiggered cap table and commercial agreement setup is about 27% of the company. So between Microsoft and the foundation, a little bit more than half. And I think this is a pretty big deal for Open AI in the very near term for a number of reasons, but one of which is that now $22.5 billion from SoftBank has been unlocked. That was on hold until they completed this conversion. And then there's quite a lot of changes with the Microsoft agreement. The gist of it is that they're still going to be close, but they're no longer married, is how I'd phrase it. But Microsoft is going to be able to hold on to IP rights a little bit longer. Open AI will pay a little bit less to Microsoft over time. Open AI did another massive compute commit to Azure, Microsoft's cloud, but also now doesn't have to go to Microsoft for writer-first refusal. So it's kind of a slow motion breakup with a lot of goodies, but huge.

SPEAKER_20: We've been waiting for this for, what, years now?

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I can't believe they got it done. Apparently, the attorney generals in Delaware and California gave them the go-ahead.

SPEAKER_08: The fact that it's a benefit corporation means nothing. Just so people know, a benefit corporation is just like a fancy label put on top of a for-profit entity, and it sounds like it's a non-profit. Public benefit corporation just means you have to state the purpose for this organization to exist.

SPEAKER_09: And then when you make decisions as a board, you have to include that in your decision-making process. In other words, the mission of the company. So if the mission is to provide open source AI for everybody, which it no longer is, you know, they would have to take that into account when they were deciding to go public or hire somebody or fire somebody. We're just making big corporate level decisions. And so, but if Microsoft owns 27% of it, and this thing becomes worth, you know, gets into the trillion-dollar club or the $2 trillion club, is that meaningful? If they were to sell all their shares and they would make $270 billion? How much cash does Microsoft have on hand right now? I think they're always sitting on $50 or $100 billion, but this could be a windfall for them. I'm not sure how much they paid for that equity. It was tens of billions. I think they were $20 billion in. I'm not sure the number there. So I guess those are the two numbers you need to see to understand how great of a move this was by Satya Nadella.

SPEAKER_55: And I do believe Bill Gates said it wasn't worth doing. Yeah, he said they were lighting the money on fire. Also, I love it, Jason.

SPEAKER_284: That might turn out to be true, actually.

SPEAKER_49: I think they've gotten enough value out of it already that they're pretty happy. But it's funny. Oh, here we are. Now it's finally loading. You asked me for how much cash Microsoft has on site, on hand. I was immediately going to go get that for you.

SPEAKER_84: But it's earnings day, so the Microsoft's investor relations page is a complete mess. But I'll get you that number right now, Jason.

SPEAKER_169: Okay, so Microsoft, Cash, and Bank. I'm guessing they have...

SPEAKER_00: Cash and equivalents and short-term investments were $94.5 billion.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they've always had like $50 to $100 billion laying around in cash. And they throw off, obviously, tens of billions in profits every year. So this is not a de minimis amount. And then how much did they put into OpenAI? It's the second number in terms of, yeah, Microsoft investment in OpenAI.

SPEAKER_289: Let's take a look at that. So how much have they invested to date?

SPEAKER_00: I think about $13 billion total from what I can tell, which means they would be up about 10x, give or take.

SPEAKER_08: Yes, 10x right now. And pretty clear, it could get to $2 trillion. It could get to a trillion, a trillion five. So this could be a 20, 30x background, a big number.

SPEAKER_00: An enormous number. And Microsoft gets the commercial benefits along the way. For example, as part of the new agreement, if OpenAI makes a product with a third party that is served via an API, it has to be on Azure. So they still have some pretty good, like I said, goodies as part of the deal. And they did also redefine AGI a little bit to make things a bit more fair and a little bit less scary.

SPEAKER_20: But I think Microsoft is going to stay winning because they're also getting a revenue cut this whole time.

SPEAKER_06: What does this mean for corporate governance and corporate structures? There was another organization that I think laid the groundwork for this. And I believe the lawyers who did this also did OpenAI's work, which was the Mozilla Foundation. And Netscape made an open source foundation, AOL, which owned Netscape, the original browser, put Mosaic was the original. And then there was Netscape, the commercial one. They put all the IP into this foundation. The foundation started making so much money because the Firefox browser had a search deal with Google. And they were making tens of or hundreds of millions of dollars. And so the IRS was like, this doesn't make any sense. You're a nonprofit making all this money. Aren't you supposed to deploy it?

SPEAKER_09: So they started hiring more people, they're paying extraordinary salaries, doing whatever they can to come up with new projects to do. And they came up with this structure of a for-profit owned by a nonprofit.

SPEAKER_84: Yeah. So the Mozilla Corporation is the thing that owns Mozilla developers and does Firefox. And that's owned by the Mozilla Foundation, which also owns Mozilla Technologies Corporation.

SPEAKER_00: And that is the Thunderbird subgroup. So it's two for-profits underneath the foundation. Okay. Let me be honest here, Jason. In a world in which we have offshore corporate structures and we have all sorts of fun ways to move money around, which I don't actually have that much of a problem with,

SPEAKER_20: why is this conversion of a nonprofit to a for-profit-ish thing such a big deal?

SPEAKER_63: Because I feel like we let corporations change their clothes pretty often and let them play the game. I guess the question would be, is this fair to taxpayers?

SPEAKER_06: And is this like a tax loophole that's unfair? So if I were to donate $50 million to a nonprofit, and then that nonprofit and the employees and the board all got equity in this new company, then I was able to get a tax write-off for that donation. And then I would double dip by having equity in the new company at some point and become a billionaire. So that's, I think, where people would be wondering, should that be allowed? So if I were to give you an example, and maybe this exists in the world. I'm sure other people have tried similar things. But we all donate our money into a nonprofit. That nonprofit becomes an accelerator. Like, let's say I wanted to do this for the launch accelerator, Founder University. I make Founder University a nonprofit.

SPEAKER_09: And I get tax write-offs by donating to it. And then I decide there's going to be an entity that invests in them that's owned partially by the nonprofit. And I raised a bunch of money for that nonprofit from other individuals. But then I own the spin-out. That's where I think it starts to feel like really conflicted party transactions.

SPEAKER_00: Well, no conflict, no interest. But I'll just say that I think intent matters quite a lot here. I think if you start as a nonprofit and then things change down the road and you want to make a change, that doesn't strike me as bad. If you do this entirely as a ruse to get around tax rules or to build a better tax benefit for yourself, sure, penalize that. But I think we should let companies that act with good intent make changes that they need to pursue growth. I mean, this just doesn't bother me that much.

SPEAKER_163: If we're going to talk about inefficient taxation policies, I have a few that are higher on my list of grievances than the potential write-offs for early open AI donors, I guess, in that case.

SPEAKER_06: Or the management. And that's where Sam Altman was working for a nonprofit, owns no equity, but I assume he owns 5% of the new company. What does Sam Altman own now?

SPEAKER_00: That we don't know. But I do know that he's keeping his nominal salary of $76,000 a year because that's totally an important portion of his wealth.

David Friedberg: I got to think he owns 5% of the company and rightfully so if he architected the whole thing. But okay, so then how does that play into it? I don't know. It's thorny.

SPEAKER_00: I do not mean to dismiss your complaints. But I mean, the alternative is open AI is hamstrung and we lose, as a nation, one of the most valuable companies potentially of all time, which would generate huge tax benefits for, you know, the public press.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's a valid argument as well. The question is then, what's the largest nonprofit in the world and what would happen if they flipped?

SPEAKER_311: Gates Foundation, I presume, right? Oh, here we go. I got some data here.

SPEAKER_312: Yeah, well, that's like one person's wealth.

SPEAKER_06: I'm thinking of one that raised money from multiple people, you know, like if the American Cancer Society decided to flip and the management became wealthy because they came up with a cure for cancer and put it into a for-profit, and then the members of the American Cancer Society then went to work for the for-profit, I don't know.

SPEAKER_316: It's just very confounding.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I don't know Sam Alvin's take or stake in it, but the information reports that the OpenAI employee vehicle is worth $130 billion as well, the same percentage of the company that is owned by the foundation.

SPEAKER_100: So like 26 or 27 percent, yeah. Yes, that's from Amir Afradi over at The Information, who is fantastic. Shout out to him for that data point. Okay, there it is.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's keep going. Next up on the docket is a story that I did not see coming at all, Jason. There's a company called One X. We've talked about them on the show before. Sure, they make the NEO. They make the NEO, but we've been talking about figure, we've been talking about Tesla's Optimus robot, and kind of from nowhere, One X came out and decided to start selling its NEO personal home robot starting in 2026. A couple of options, you can pay 20K for it, or you can pay 500 bucks a month for it, and it's not ready yet, but it's certainly getting closer, and I think people are going to buy enough of these that it's going to be a worthwhile first launch for the company. Would you like to see a clip of this thing?

SPEAKER_245: Yeah, sure. I mean, it's all over social media.

SPEAKER_08: It's a good-looking robot. I think we had one of these at an all-in, maybe the all-in holiday special. It was on stage. But yeah, it looks pretty good. It's petite, small, I think, to not be threatening to humans, if that's in fact it.

SPEAKER_06: It's got like cloth on top of it, and it's currently teleoperated, but they show it like cleaning and loading dishes and picking up packages. So I guess they believe they're going to have this in a year for 20K.

SPEAKER_09: Anyway, the other one that everybody seems to have that's remote-controlled, the Chinese one that was on the Walmart site, that also was 20 grand.

SPEAKER_08: So it seems like these are going to be able to be billed for 20 grand.

SPEAKER_00: The Unitree H1, and then they just came out with another one that's even more fancy. I think that's their cheaper consumer-y one. So there could be a two-tier pricing element here, Jason. The Journal, Wall Street Journal, did get its hands on some testing time with the NEO actually at 1X's headquarters. They sent over Joanna Stern, who's fantastic, and in her experience, nearly entirely teleoperated. But the idea, according to the company, is that, quote, NEO's autonomy improves with diverse data and real-world experiences. As NEO does more chores, it will receive updates to your Redwood model, its internal AI, that increase the complexity of tasks that NEO can handle. So I think, really, what they're selling here is early access robots to people who are willing to beta test them and help them get more data on real-world use cases and real houses to finish up the AI. And if people are willing to subsidize that, great, because I would love to have this problem fixed. But I don't think NEO suddenly solved the entire general robotics question for the home with no one watching.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and I don't think, I saw Alon had put in the notes, like, does this mean there's a teleoperator walking this thing around my home? That's pretty creepy. I think the answer is no. I think the teleoperator is just to show what it's capable of now, just in terms of its movement.

SPEAKER_09: And eventually, that will all be done by the large language model behind it. But these things, you know, a lot of the great innovations start as toys that are supposed to do, like, some tasks, and they do them badly. The PC revolution was like, hey, boot up your PC, take 16 minutes to load this calculator or chess tutor, and you can play chess or use a calculator. And it was like, this is dumb.

SPEAKER_08: People would be like, I could just use this calculator. Why would I do that? I have a chess set right here. Why would I do that? If I want to play Dungeons and Dragons, I have it over here. Why would I play the Zork thing?

SPEAKER_09: So, and then over time, compounding technologies, memory, fidelity, in this case, the actuators will get better and better. These things in three years, it's not going to be uncommon to see one of these things at an airport, at a UPS store. I wouldn't be surprised if, like, there's a driver in a Zook's-likes car, and the robot gets out and brings the packages out and puts them on the door, and the operator is just taking a picture of it working. You know, and we'll see that in three years, and then six years, they'll take the driver out, and you'll have a Zook's car, owned by Amazon, with a bunch of packages in it and a robot in it.

SPEAKER_304: And the doors will open, and it will carry your box from the Zook's and put it on your doorstep. And that means it'll be free to ship things around the world or close to free.

SPEAKER_118: Because it's electric power and electric power, yeah. Yeah, it's all electric, and these things are going to cost but a dollar a day.

SPEAKER_09: I always do the math on these. If it's $20,000, and, you know, there's, you know, and you had it for 10 years, you'd have it for 3,000 days.

SPEAKER_06: 3,000 days, you can just very easily back of the envelope this. It's not going to be an expensive thing to own.

SPEAKER_118: You know, a couple of dollars a day, these things will cost ultimately.

SPEAKER_49: So, right now, thinking about the math, $500 a month to rent one of these. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: So, what do I pay my housekeeper currently? About $140 a week to come once. So, that means I'm already paying more per month for a human that, to be clear, I love. She's part of the family.

SPEAKER_331: But this is already cheaper than she is. And I can have it all the time. Yeah. It's not as good. It's not going to work right now.

SPEAKER_334: No, but if it's already cheaper, that's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_00: If it was $5,000 a month, we would be 10 million miles away. But if it's already coming in cheaper than a human, that's impressive.

SPEAKER_09: Yeah, these things should be, if I was working at one of these companies, I would not sell these robots. I would only sell them on a consumption basis, $1 an hour, 24 bucks a day. And if you want them, it's $1 an hour to have one. Plus, you pay for the electricity and, you know, just $1 a day. Anything goes wrong, we just, we'll go pick it up and swap it out.

SPEAKER_00: The end. A couple things about that, Jason. So, Neo, when you get your Neo, comes in a weird pod and opens up and starts talking to you, which is pretty cool. There's no real setup for it. You can also, on your phone, go ahead and teleoperate into your own Neo and see out through its eyes and see what it's doing at your house. You can schedule chores for it to do and so forth. So, I think the blocks are getting there. I think we're getting close.

SPEAKER_20: I'm just curious who's going to actually get the first one of these out that works, like to a solid B-plus level.

SPEAKER_09: Yeah, the Chinese will have plenty of these operating in China, and I would say they'll probably be first because they're not going to have the social constraint. They can just decide they're going to use them for certain jobs, and they'll probably decide to do them for jobs that are truly arduous or dangerous. So, imagine, you know, it sounds silly, but if you are fighting a fire or you had to go into a dangerous situation, these would be very good for going into dangerous situations. In fact, they have an equivalent of this, like a little robot with an arm on it that you can use for bombs, right?

SPEAKER_118: Oh, yes, bomb disposal robots, of course.

SPEAKER_09: Yeah, bomb disposal robots. So, I think it's going to be first for, like, super dangerous things that nobody would ever complain because they don't want to do. But these are going to, in China, if they start taking factory jobs, that could be very dicey as well. Very dicey.

SPEAKER_343: I don't think we're too far from that.

SPEAKER_00: All right, last up on the docket for the day. Uber's self-driving plans are accelerating. Now, Jason, we've talked about Uber working with Neuro and Lucid to build their own robo-taxi fleet. Now, we know that that's going to launch next year, at least in the Bay Area. So, we now have a location for it. I'm not at all surprised that another tech company is building something in its backyard. But I am a little bit encouraged to know that we have a location and a timeline. It feels like this product has gone from vaporware announcement to more serious. And we also learned today that Uber is working with NVIDIA's in-car autonomous vehicle technology to help more OEMs bring level four self-driving to their cars, which will then benefit Uber. It seems, and I don't want to call it too early, that after giving up on self-driving and selling off their self-driving assets, Uber has somehow managed to come back and is now like a top three global player in the space.

SPEAKER_20: And I don't quite know how they did it.

SPEAKER_88: Pretty straightforward. It's a fragmented market.

SPEAKER_09: It's a giant market. So, you have geographies. You have people who are making the core technology, the sensors, the cars. And you, of course, have the network.

SPEAKER_06: And then you have maintaining all these cars. And so, what Uber is using is their huge network and their balance sheet to invest in many different partners. And so, this NVIDIA tie-up means that they will be using their driving data from the real world like Uber, like Tesla does. Uber will take their driving data and give it to NVIDIA. NVIDIA is providing a cloud platform and the hardware stack for cars. So, that means if Toyota or Volkswagen need hardware or the Neuro cars need hardware, they don't have to think about that. They could just, you know, bolt this on to a car. Now, bolting it on to a car aesthetically doesn't look good and it doesn't scale like building cyber cabs does. But Lucid, after bolting these things on, is obviously going to just build them in.

SPEAKER_09: And so, now you're going to have somebody like NVIDIA, a global player, who knows how to build things at scale, be able to build these and give them to any car manufacturer. Then you're going to have software plays, like Neuro and others, be able to give the software stack. And then they will be able to sell those cars to Uber or to people who buy a flock of cars. And they'll put them into the Uber network. They'll put them into the Lyft network. There's nothing that says, I couldn't buy 10 of these cars. And then maintain them at my parking lot. If I had like a cafe, I take half my parking lot. I put a bunch of these cars in it and I maintain them. I clean them. They come back. They charge at my lot. And I maintain the cars and I own them. But I put them into these networks to make money. That's really the future of this. And then you'll have Tesla, of course, doing their robo taxis. And they're probably a year out, I think, from taking the driver out. I think the aggressive estimates are three or four months. I put it probably at a year because of regulators. And I think they'll do it in constrained, very constrained areas like Waymo is. So they'll have a wide area with a safety driver and then a much smaller area, 25% of that, where they know they can't screw up or it's very low chance. Because, man, if Tesla hits something, it's not going to be good.

SPEAKER_304: There's a lot of people who would love to write that story of a Tesla, you know, killing a puppy, God forbid.

SPEAKER_106: And so, pacemans are...

SPEAKER_49: But what if it's a Tesla killing a puppy while it has the anti-Elon bumper sticker on it? Then is that all, does that net out?

SPEAKER_232: I mean, I think the anti-stuff is waning now. The longer you stay out of politics, I think it's got a half-life.

SPEAKER_118: And so, I think staying out of politics, you know, people will... The people who put those stickers on will, I think, that'll slow down. All right.

SPEAKER_00: Really, really quickly here. Two things before we go. One, while we're recording live today, the Fed did cut Jason 25 bips as expected. Oh, wow. It's Fed day.

SPEAKER_03: And then two, as we finish up... When did that happen? When did the Fed cut happen? I think about 25 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_00: It was a 2 p.m. Fed press today.

SPEAKER_20: And then in Boston, right now, they are taking votes on whether or not to ban fully autonomous vehicles in the city. And I will say, Boston, I already hate you. Don't do something stupid and make me hate you marginally more.

SPEAKER_06: So, I think, yeah, it's, you're going to see this happen over and over again.

SPEAKER_08: And people can do what they want in their local communities. You have to give people the ability to do what's right for their city or state, even if you don't agree with it. So, you know, I get to carry a gun on my waist here in Texas, and you don't. And you live in a state where you probably don't want people carrying them.

SPEAKER_29: And I live in a state where people do. And yeah, I'm fine with that one because I've shot a lot of handguns.

SPEAKER_08: So, everybody's got like a different take on this.

SPEAKER_06: I think this one will fall into reproductive rights, cannabis, self-driving. They're going to just, there'll be states that are very slow. I know this because they banned Airbnb in New York. They gave Uber a really hard time in Vegas, in London, and it just takes time. So, it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_359: They're going to get abortion and weed in Texas.

SPEAKER_09: I think they have tons of weed here. They just call it Delta 9. They have like variants. So, when you drive down the road, it's like Delta 9, Delta 9. Yeah, but I mean. Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_361: I think probably not soon is what I would say.

SPEAKER_20: Because there's bits of Texas that I like. And then I have to, then I look around and I'm like, oh God, 10 commandments in the classrooms? Come on now. And I just kind of slowly back away like a stuck cat.

SPEAKER_232: Yeah, it's kind of like being in a time warp to like the 1980s in some ways.

SPEAKER_09: And then a time warp into 2050 and others. You can build your factory. You could build, if you own some land and you want to build an apartment complex, they let you. And there's no NIMBY to stop you. And if you want reproductive rights, yeah, you got to get on a plane or take a bus to the state next door.

SPEAKER_365: Yes, it's a strange situation. It's a very strange situation.

SPEAKER_00: But that's the glory of America. 50 different states. All right. Friday, everybody, don't forget. We're going to be going through big tech earnings from the cloud perspective, trying to figure out what's going on in the AI world.

SPEAKER_03: So, if you're curious about the state of play, we are going to have that for you here on This Week in Startups on Friday. All right. We'll see you Friday. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.