SPEAKER_00: Hey, everybody. Today we have my pal Lon Harris film expert podcaster. He writes the inside.com streaming newsletter. And we wanted to talk about the two shows that everybody in our industry is talking about the dropout about Theranos and super pumped about Uber. Yeah, it is a great

Jason Calacanis: conversation about both shows. You can tell we're all so excited. We're just trying to jump in on each other all the time. Lots of throwback twist energy. And then after that conversation, after

SPEAKER_05: we pick our favorite actors, favorite moments, and we pick which show we think is better. And it was unanimous. We will have Molly in conversation with one of our launch founders, Nick McHenry, for a quick interview about his startup one shop. We've been featuring Molly to interview as part of our journey as a venture capitalist, some of the early stage investments we're making. And these are companies that are probably similar to many of yours. Or if you start a company, this is what you're going to be experiencing in year one and two. And so we really like to keep our roots here

SPEAKER_07: at This Week in Startups and talk about the companies we're investing in. It's going to be

SPEAKER_08: a great episode. Stick with us. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. Twist listeners get $1,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash twist. Odoo is a fully customizable and fully integrated suite of business apps that lets you build and scale your stack as you build and scale your business. Your first app is free forever. And right now, Odoo is offering $1,000 off your first implementation pack at odoo.com slash twist. That's O-D-O-O dot com slash twist. And Coda. Coda is the all-in-one doc for teams. If you've got a stack of niche workflow tools or you're getting buried in docs and spreadsheets, Coda is the doc that brings it all together. Startups can get a $1,000 credit at coda.io slash twist. Coda is the all-in-one doc for teams. If you've got a stack of niche workflow tools or if you're getting buried in docs and spreadsheets, Coda is the doc that brings it all together. Startups can get a $1,000 credit at coda.io slash twist.

SPEAKER_16: Hey, everybody. Welcome to This Week in Startups. I'm super excited to have my longtime collaborator

SPEAKER_18: and the original newsreader and part of the original cast of This Week in Startups, my guy, Lon Harris. You know him as atlons on Twitter. How are you doing, brother? Really good. Good to see you. I met Lon Harris when I was a young entrepreneur 15 years ago in LA. 15 years ago, yeah. He came and worked at my pool house when I moved to LA. We had like four people and we had this crazy idea for Mahalo, a search engine combined with Wikipedia. It soared to $10 million in revenue and then came right back down. It now exists as inside.com. It's making millions

SPEAKER_23: of dollars a year. Lon was working at a video store when I met him.

SPEAKER_25: It's true. Yeah. It was a laser disc store as well. It was also a laser disc store. It

SPEAKER_26: was called laser blazer. Yeah. Wow. He was on the Quentin Tarantino path

SPEAKER_30: of literally working at a video store. And now he does web shows. But good to see you, brother. How are you holding on? You're glad to be out of the pandemic?

SPEAKER_34: Yeah. No, it's, it's nice to, uh, you know, it's like the world is just, just now starting

SPEAKER_35: to open up again here in LA. It's nice. Uh, did you miss the act of going to the cinema?

SPEAKER_37: Very much. I, you know, I, I sort of tried as best I could like Cruella last year was one of the first movies that like came back out in a theater. And I had a friend who rented out a theater and we went to go see it. And so that was nice. So like, I did my best to like, keep one toe in even during the height of the pandemic. But yeah, I think I only saw,

SPEAKER_34: you know, three or four total movies in theaters all last year, which is like, ridiculously low for me. Right. I used to go every weekend.

SPEAKER_18: And what, what's the vibe in LA now? Do the movies are opening up obviously like Batman

SPEAKER_30: and Spider-Man movies were only allowed. You were only allowed to see them in movie theaters, the whole idea of like, what do they call that day and date or something?

SPEAKER_37: Yeah. We were doing the right simultaneous day and date stuff last year, like HBO max was,

SPEAKER_43: was releasing their movie, the Warner brothers movies that that's basically over. Although I

SPEAKER_45: guess turning red just came out on Disney plus and not in theaters from Pixar. I mean, I would say

SPEAKER_47: in LA at this point, it, it's basically like everywhere else. You don't have to wear masks

SPEAKER_43: anymore. In most places, people are just going about their lives. Like it's, it's, it's, we're sort of, I don't, I don't like the term back to normal, but we're sort of like, you wouldn't immediately know that there was still a pandemic going on. If you were just on

Jason Calacanis: the street right now, if you were like an alien that landed from outer space, what do you think is going to happen with that business model? Is this a total departure,

SPEAKER_06: but I'm so curious about, you know, from inside the industry, like people really liked the day and date release families clearly. So it's good that at least like Pixar is keeping it up,

SPEAKER_37: but I know like it was bad for star contracts. Yeah. I mean, my, my take is, or what I've seen is the pandemic massively accelerated a thing that was already happening. Like you can go back to 2019, 2018 and look at what movies were doing killer numbers at the box office versus what people were waiting for on streaming. And it was already getting pretty clear stuff like a big Marvel or a star Wars movie. That's going to pack a house with fans. And they're going to enjoy that communal

SPEAKER_47: experience of watching the new thing opening day together. That's not going anywhere. People love that. That experience is very important to people. But I think, you know, we're seeing stuff like

SPEAKER_37: West side story, stuff like Coda, stuff like King Richard, these movies that at one time would have been huge national hits and people would have loved them. And they would have driven discussion for weeks. People are fine with waiting to see those on Apple TV or Netflix or Amazon. So I think that's inevitable. Like we're, we're just going to, they're going to be fewer theaters, fewer things will open in theaters. I don't think it's ever going to go away completely because of stuff like the Batman. But I think there's only, there's only so many things like the Batman or a new Jurassic park every year. And most of this stuff is going to end up on.

SPEAKER_64: I couldn't have been more wrong on this Molly. Cause my position was as long as people want to go on

SPEAKER_18: dates. Movies are going to be a big deal. And I always thought like, that was like in the nineties, that's what you did. Hey, you want to catch a movie, you want to have dinner and like dinner or dinner in a movie. It was like the classic date. Right. And I think actually, I know this sounds crazy, but that was like a really interesting way to get to know somebody. Cause when I lived in New York, you go to the Angelica, you know, you, you go to see an independent film or something interesting, and then you have a conversation about it afterwards. And it was like a great, I don't know for me, I thought that was like a great way to commune with friends or to meet a new person and to build a friendship or a romantic friendship, whatever. And now it's just become

SPEAKER_06: Netflix and chill. It also was a good way to figure out what kind of person you were on a date with. Like, are they a movie talker? Are they allowed to work? Do they, are they an octopus, like a grabber once the lights go out? Like you could really learn a lot. This I feel like is probably the point where we should say for people who don't know this already, aren't long-time twist listeners, that Lon Harris writes the inside streaming newsletter, which is why we immediately jumped in and jumped all over him with the streaming questions. Yeah. Right. So it's context.

SPEAKER_71: The ritual of movie going, to me, I feel it's, it's, it's almost like bowling or mini golf or any of

SPEAKER_37: those other kinds of activities. Like there was a peak of popularity when there was probably a lot

SPEAKER_75: more of it, but it's not gone completely. Like you could still go to a bowling alley in most towns. It just, there's like one instead of four, you know? And I think that will probably be the same

SPEAKER_37: with movies. Like you maybe won't have a, you know, mid-sized city with like eight multiplexes

SPEAKER_76: with 18 screens each, but I doubt there would be no movie theater. There'll still be, you know,

SPEAKER_18: people want to go see. So it becomes part of the like activity stack, if you will, like a roller skating or something. And it, you know, it had its boom, uh, go to inside.com slash streaming to get Lon five days a week, writing about this stuff. And, uh, we'll be launching a new website, uh, for inside in the coming weeks, uh, which is kind of like a hybrid of dig or Reddit and LinkedIn. Um,

SPEAKER_75: and you've been playing with that. Yes. Uh, in fact, for the last few days, I'm posting,

SPEAKER_80: I'm double posting a lot of these stories. So I'm putting them in the newsletter and then we're also throwing them into the social news app. Yeah. So this is going to be a very interesting,

SPEAKER_00: uh, wrinkle for us, I think where we can continue the conversations, but we had you here today because

SPEAKER_18: Molly and I were, uh, you know, chit chatting in between like doing the show about super pumped, the story of Uber, uh, and then second, um, the dropout. Yeah. So we thought, and this is going to be heavy spoilers, but only for the first couple of episodes. So I would encourage you, even if you haven't seen super pumped or you haven't seen, um, the dropout, the dropout,

SPEAKER_30: this is okay to listen to these. Cause we're just talking about the first couple of episodes

SPEAKER_85: and they have a long way to go. Listen, you can still take an Uber. They'll bring you your lunch

SPEAKER_88: today. Uh, you can't go get a one drop blood test at Walgreens. So do with that what you will.

SPEAKER_90: It's not like, uh, it's not like a Spider-Man. Listen, when you're a founder, it's fun to trade

SPEAKER_91: your craziest stories with other founders. Recently balloon CEO, Amanda Greenberg, one of lunch's awesome portfolio founders told me how Vanta sock two solution helped her save an important deal in the final hours. Balloon. If you don't know, sell SAS productivity and collaboration software. And when they needed 10 documents in place within 48 hours to close a very important SAS deal, well, Vanta saved the day by supplying customizable templates and helping them through the process to close. So if you don't have your sock too tight, you can't close these major customers. And Vanta is going to really help you get that done so quickly. And so easily Vanta's compliance software makes it easy to get and renew your sock too. They continuously test against technical and non-technical sock two requirements. And they partner with over two dozen audit firms who have been trained to file sock two reports directly within Vanta. And on average Vanta customers are sock two compliant in just two to four weeks. Compare that to three to five months without Vanta. And guess what? Vanta is going to give you $1,000 off right now. So get the $1,000 off at Vanta.com slash twist. Once again, Vanta V-A-N-T-A.com slash twist for $1,000 off your sock two. I think we got to start with what I think is the better show.

SPEAKER_30: I'm coming out. Oh, I'm curious. I'm curious what this is going to be. Okay. Obviously, I'm very close to

SPEAKER_82: Super Pumped as, you know, it's maybe the third or fourth investor in Uber. I don't remember. I keep

SPEAKER_103: waiting to see who they've cast as a J-Cal. So far, you've not made an appearance. You would think that I

SPEAKER_00: would come in. They mentioned angel investors a couple of times, but I don't think I made it because I'm friendly with Brian Koppelman and he would have told me. But I think the far superior show right now for me, two episodes into Super Pump and four episodes into the dropout is clearly the dropout. It's a much better show. I have just one observation to start with, which is

SPEAKER_105: this performance is so good. I cannot stop watching. And my test now for a show, if it's keeping me, is when I'm watching it, does this device become more alluring to me? And when that woman is on the screen playing Elizabeth Holmes. Amanda Seyfried. Amanda Seyfried. When she's on the screen, I don't pick up my phone or I happen to pick up my phone and I hear her voice. I put my phone down. I don't know if you've had this, the quick 20 second rewind, two seconds. Like I got to watch that play again. I think this performance is going to win everything. Lon, am I crazy?

SPEAKER_37: No, I agree with you. I was, Molly and I were sort of talking about this a little before we went live. I think that the, to me, the key differentiator between these two shows is the dropout is it's not

SPEAKER_47: trying to give you the, like, here's the lowdown on the startup world. Like, let us show you what

SPEAKER_37: Silicon Valley is all about. It's really delving into this person, like her psychology and her outlook and like who she is and how she sort of created this persona for herself. And I think that's been her weird relationship with Sonny Balwani and Naveen Andrews and that stuff. And I think that to me is much more interesting. It gives them a lot more to play with than Super Pump, which is trying to really do the, like big short, here's what happened. Like, here's the story. Here's the definitive Silicon Valley show. And we're going to take you behind the scenes at like how deals are made. And I don't know, to me, they both, neither of them feels like super realistic. So it's great that the dropout delves more into the character study stuff. Is it the better show, Lon? Yes or no? I think so. Which is the better show?

SPEAKER_111: Well, I think that's the stuff I like from Super Pump, but it feels a little overblown. It feels like a little bit of a cartoon version of these events. Well said, Molly.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I agree. I think Super Pumped is so loud, just loud as a metaphor. And then also literally loud, like so much yelling. And, and I agree. I think the cast of the dropout is phenomenal. I think Amanda Seyfried should 100% win everything. What I'm finding interestingly is that now I guess that it's four episodes of the dropout, I think. And now that our Elizabeth has sort of gone full dark side, and there's less nuance and less exploration of the relationships and what made her that way and less of her transformation. Now I'm getting bored.

SPEAKER_116: Oh, you're bored by it. I was about to say it's riveting for me now. Oh, really? I have a different take.

SPEAKER_118: I like the nuance and the transformation and the relationship and watching her kind of like

SPEAKER_06: obsessive desire to become the person she's going to become. And now we have this very like sort of cartoony Walgreens deal thing, which is like fun, but like less.

SPEAKER_18: In fairness, when we started to see Anakin Skywalker turn to the dark side and kill the sand people, that's when I was on the hook. That's when, you know, when I was watching that and he kills the sand people and then he force chokes Padme and now he wants to kill Obi-Wan. That thing came to a crescendo for me. So I like the dark stuff. Um, you're like, you're like, you're happy about full

SPEAKER_37: villain. I like the villain, but it's an apt metaphor though, because they are, they are treating the, the voice and the turtleneck and the Steve jobs thing. Oh my God. Like Darth Vader moment. Like

SPEAKER_75: they even like kind of preview it. Like here's her getting her iPhone and like it's coming this,

SPEAKER_18: this transformation. Yeah. Yes. The dark, the dark arts, uh, have some things that only the Sith can teach you if you want to say Padme, right? Like, and yeah. And like those scenes of her

SPEAKER_71: practicing the voice in the mirror and like getting, so let's go to favorite scenes. So good.

SPEAKER_18: Let's go favorite. She's nailing the voice stuff. It's really favorite scene lawn. Take a minute to think this through. Cause I started writing notes. Cause I would like to make this a reoccurring thing. Like maybe every couple of weeks we have you on, we do this. Sure. Maybe I'll send you next.

SPEAKER_43: I re we, we gotta talk about that apple show severance. I'm, I'm fascinated to get your, Okay. I, to get your take on this. That will be next on the docket for watch club.

SPEAKER_133: We gotta talk about that. That's a, that's purely fictional. That's sci-fi.

SPEAKER_137: That's not based on a real thing. I cannot believe it though. Because Ben Stiller. That one and then the WeWork one. Let's put those on the docket for. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: All right. But we gotta stay focused here because I listened to a show called the watch and, uh, from the ringer network and they're very focused and tight when they do their critique on

SPEAKER_140: this. And I want to learn how to do critique from lawn as well. What's the show you do lawn?

SPEAKER_75: You do a couple of shows. Uh, you do, uh, any, any review shows now? Uh, yeah. I mean, I, Hal Rudnick and I host a podcast called binge boys. That's very, it's very much like this.

SPEAKER_124: We watch stuff every week. I talk a little bit about the news and then we review whatever we saw. Plugs out of the way. Plugs out of the way. Let's get focused. Stay on target. Yeah. Uh,

SPEAKER_105: best scene. I want everybody to think, cause there's so many good scenes in these first four episodes. And I, I gotta think lawn, you have such a, a great memory for these things and these moments for you. What is the most character revealing or exciting and or exciting moment?

SPEAKER_75: Cause it is a character study. Yes. I, I really liked, um, I think all of the stuff with

SPEAKER_37: Elizabeth and her, she's got a bunch of these sort of like older mentor figures in her life. Yes. And I think that, uh, like Steven Fry is really good as Ian Gibbons, the sort of chemist who was working with her. Unbelievable. And Bill Irwin is the one I was gonna, he, Channing. I don't remember. He's her, he's her mentor from Stanford, her like faculty advisor who joins the board of her company. Bill Irwin. Yeah. Their scenes together are really fantastic. And it's that, you know, it's a tough thing to capture that they're, they're colleagues. He's also a professor. There's like, there's layers to their relationship, but he also has sort of these paternal kind of protective feelings about her. And I think that what the show does really well is show you like how she was able to get away with this for so long, because there were a lot of people who had conflicting feelings about her felt weirdly protective. They're also playing with this in

SPEAKER_43: super pumped and like how Bill Gurley feels like both a rival and a mentor to Travis. And I think

SPEAKER_75: it's kind of that same idea. And those scenes are so good. And it's, there is a lot going on under

SPEAKER_64: the surface. Well, this was, uh, to give you the back end of what we knew in Silicon Valley,

SPEAKER_18: all of the VCs in episode one, they show the VCs lawn kind of laughing her out of the room and they make the VCs, do she, of course, totally fair, where he's like, you know, do you want some star

SPEAKER_157: fruit? And she's like, star fruit, the guy's like, you know, like, he's wearing his racing bike clothes,

SPEAKER_18: I'd said hilarious. But you're absolutely correct. That the old white man obsession with the blonde

SPEAKER_23: next Steve jobs, and there's a turning point where they're kind of mentoring her. But then all of a sudden, she learns how to manipulate them. Right? Yes. And the ultimate one so far for me is when she meets Sam Waterston, playing George Shultz. Yeah. And that's in the last episode. And she's like,

SPEAKER_16: and then she starts doing it with this, um, Alan Ruck, but who's the CFO? Alan Ruck amazing.

SPEAKER_164: Alan Ruck's great, but who's the actor playing the CFO is fantastic. The CFO of Walgreens goes through

SPEAKER_105: this arc. Josh Hayes, uh, Wade Mark is the guy's name. Yeah, Wade is the real guy. Wade is like the real guys, the CFO. Yeah. And those two, when she is manipulating them, she kind of figures it out with the CFO of Walgreens of how she can play dumb guys, and their stupid egos and competition. And then she gets into George Shultz and she is at the top of her charisma and the reality distortion field. She basically has learned how to force choke old men. And that's where like this metaphor of her as Darth Vader works really well, because it's such a superpower. Molly, you had to watch this and think in the beginning, you know, there's a sexual assault. She's being manipulated by men. You can tell like Balwani is the Svengali trying to get her in bed. And it's super creepy. And it's obvious she's

SPEAKER_23: being played by men. And then she goes on to being able to play them. And maybe you could talk about

Jason Calacanis: that dynamic and then your favorite scene. Yeah. I mean, I, that dynamic is, I think, pretty well done here again, like nothing is subtle in this show, right? Let's like be,

SPEAKER_06: let's just acknowledge upfront that everything in both of these shows is like slams. Like here is the point and the metaphor that we're making. However, I do think that that is played really well. And that's why actually one of my favorites, I mean, my favorite will always be the one where she has the sort of like the breakdown. And then she's looking at herself in the mirror,

SPEAKER_137: giving her, her own weird herself, her own weird pep talk and practicing the voice, right? Where

SPEAKER_171: she's just like, we took some very inspirational, inspirational, inspirational stuff, right? Like

SPEAKER_137: that is just a creepy, incredible transformation. But I think the overlooked, yes, that forward.

SPEAKER_176: Wait, what did she say? Whatever city, I forget what city they were in.

SPEAKER_177: And what happened in Memphis? Yeah.

SPEAKER_178: It was like, what happened in Dallas was a huge step forward. And it was a huge step forward. An inspiring step forward. It was an inspiring step forward.

SPEAKER_181: It was an inspiring, it was an inspiring, it was an inspiring, it was an inspiring step forward. So that scene is amazing, but I think that, oh yeah, let's like, yes.

SPEAKER_186: Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_188: New technology, new technology.

SPEAKER_189: At Theranos, at Theranos, developing, new technology, new technology, this is an inspiring step.

SPEAKER_199: It's inspiring step forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward.

SPEAKER_201: I mean, this is so deranged and on point.

SPEAKER_06: It's unbelievable. But I do want to say, I think the overlooked best scene. Okay, okay, good. I like it. Completely in line with this conversation about how well she manipulates men throughout is the scene where she takes her idea for the patch, her idea that she had before the blood drop thing, takes her idea for the patch to that woman professor at Stanford. Yes, thank you. Who is like, nope, you're an idiot. This isn't your work. Laurie Metcalf. Laurie Metcalf, who is incredible. She's fantastic. And I freaking love her. Playing Phyllis Gardner. Yes. And the scene where she just is like, I'm not having it. You have not done the work.

SPEAKER_47: She's trying to do the same bit with her of like, you know, I just thought for women and try to

SPEAKER_213: break in and, but, you know, Laurie Metcalf's like heard it all a million times. This is like-

SPEAKER_214: These Jedi tricks are not going to work on me.

SPEAKER_213: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: I'm a Jedi. I love that because I have definitely heard a lot of women over the years say, it is very interesting how there were very, there were no women surrounding Elizabeth Holmes. There were no women on her board. There were no women investors. Like I don't, I am not a believer that women have like a superpower and ability to, however, every woman I know was like, did you hear that freaking voice? That's absurd. That lady crazy. Immediately.

SPEAKER_117: Yes. Yes. So good scene.

SPEAKER_223: Great scene. So there was also a fascinating, I would like, before we move on, uh, I'll, I'll look it up.

SPEAKER_37: There was a great interview with the woman who did like, who styled Amanda Seyfried in this about how they had to like, think about like, they had to process multiple layers too. It's like, well, we can't just conventionally do what we would normally do, which is make her look good. But we don't want to make it a joke either. Like we're not making fun of her. We're trying to like simulate how this woman would have thought to present herself.

SPEAKER_47: And so it's, it's a, it's like a, they're every layer of the complexity. They had to really like try to untangle for this.

SPEAKER_91: Listen, when you start scaling quickly, your company needs to be run professionally. And Odoo is the software that helps you maintain control of your fast running business.

SPEAKER_227: Odoo suite of business apps lets you run your entire company on one platform.

SPEAKER_91: This means you don't need to keep adding a bunch of different SAS products and paying for them and logins and data. Everything you need is already in Odoo. All you have to do is turn it on when you're ready. Odoo has over 40 main apps and over 16,000 apps from their open source community. You know, stuff like sales, accounting, marketing, automation, HR, website builders, and so much more. Plus, if you only need two or three apps to optimize your workflow, well, that's all you're going to pay for. Again, Odoo helps you streamline by running all your business apps on one platform. No more issues transferring data back and forth. And you'll have one customer support contact across all of your apps, not 20. So everything's going to run easier. And it's going to be more affordable. Your first app always free. And Odoo is offering right now $1,000 credit on your first implementation pack. Well done, Odoo. Just go to odoo.com slash twist to get that $1,000 off.

SPEAKER_229: That's odoo.com slash twist. I love these $1,000 offers. Well done, Odoo.

SPEAKER_00: Uh, I, I'm just going to give one scene that I think plays into that. Cause I, this, I think we have discovered the gender dynamics here are a key part of the story. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_37: I mean, that's also, it's interesting too, that it's Michael Showalter directed all of these episodes. He also did a film last year, uh, the eyes of Tammy Faye with Jessica Chastain and Andrew Garfield, which also in some interesting ways plays, uh, in this, you know, it's, this, this relationship that in some ways is very conventional in terms of how the genders are presented, but also has this sort of shifting power imbalance. And anyway, it's obviously something that interests him behind this.

SPEAKER_03: Another shout out to Nikki Andres who played Anna Arrola.

SPEAKER_18: She was the woman who came from the designer who immediately figures it out and is immediately like WTF. She fell for it. And all of a sudden she just figures it out instantly, which by the way is what venture capitalists did. So this story about the Silicon Valley, you know, fell for it. I think what this show is nailing is the group of people who did not fall for it. And then her turning to the dark side and the group of who did fall for it. And for me, as an insider, obviously the scene when she's practicing is like the, you talking to me scene, like a deranged person, you know, going into the dark side moment, which he does the voice.

SPEAKER_00: But there were two other scenes that I thought were incredibly powerful. That apple store moment, which was the Robert Scoble coming out of the apple store in Palo Alto on university avenue, the first apple store ever and people losing their mind.

SPEAKER_30: And that was actually Robert Scoble holding, I think holding up. Was it really? I believe there's a picture of Robert Scoble. That's funny. Look it up. Robert Scoble first iPhone where he is holding it up like a triumph.

SPEAKER_105: And it was really the pinnacle of Steve jobs is influence as like a God, you know, the entrepreneurial God. And they show her and it reminded me and they, they kind of slow mode it where she was losing her mind. You just go, you know, like the sound kind of distorts. And you could see in her mind, it just all clicks. Like she needs to be a God. Yeah. And how does she become a God? You know? And it's kind of like a Hannibal Lecter, Anakin Skywalker going to the doctor. I just need to be that.

SPEAKER_43: It, I think it's very much, they are like purposefully kind of cribbing from Star Wars. It is, it is that like, oh, this is the power. There, there it is.

SPEAKER_245: There is Robert Scoble screaming, holding up the iPhone.

SPEAKER_251: This is the power that I need, you know, like this is my journey to obtaining it. Yeah. He got the lightsaber.

SPEAKER_23: Um, but that was just one scene I noticed, obviously the scene that I think is the most powerful. So there he goes killing. Yeah. It's killing younglings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_255: The younglings, uh, poor Grogu. He survived that one.

SPEAKER_26: But the scene that resonated with me is when she gets fired or the board wants to fire.

SPEAKER_64: And she comes in and the board is like, we're doing a vote of no confidence. And it just was so perfectly done for that moment in history, a group of white guys who

SPEAKER_23: have pattern recognition, controlling the board, taking the company away from the founder. They found out all this stuff in the chaos of that moment. I've been in the chaos of that moment where a company is flipped everybody's millions of dollars in and the fear and the panic and the, who's going to fix this, that moment of intensity where she starts crying and then she's like, oh, wait a second. I can manipulate all of them.

SPEAKER_05: You're right. I do need mentorship. I do need your help. And I think that's the cliffhanger of episode four, or it's towards the end.

SPEAKER_43: Well, yeah, she, she tells them at that moment that she is going to bring in sunny. And then we go see her like have to sell sunny on it.

SPEAKER_263: Right. Right.

SPEAKER_264: And then he's like, 20 million dollars. Yeah. So now she's manipulating the Svengali who was basically trying to groom her for sex

SPEAKER_23: and to manipulate her. She's got him for 20 million.

SPEAKER_267: And I don't mean to make your sandwich, but it's true. But it's true. And now she's gone from the manipulated, you know, assaulted, you know, weak thing

SPEAKER_23: to now the Sith Lord. And she is going to run the table on all of them.

SPEAKER_209: It's in a way triumphant. Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_270: And we don't know what's so cool about that scene too, to piggyback is we don't know

SPEAKER_06: if that was her plan all along or if sort of, she thought of it in her tears, right? It's sort of like she, cause she does that crying thing, which works on old guys. Like just saying, works like a charm. You cry every time.

SPEAKER_273: You said it, not me. It's true. It's true.

SPEAKER_216: Be a blonde girl crying. Talk about my teleprompter is really messing everything up. There's like an amazing, I think it's Michael Che who does a standup thing about how like

SPEAKER_06: the insane power that white women have to do whatever they want. Like just send them into Syria. It is Michael Che. It's Michael Che.

SPEAKER_279: It's amazing. And he's like, just send them in. They'll be like, Syria used to be kind of sketchy, but now there's a Trader Joe's like, they'll just do whatever they want.

SPEAKER_06: But, but you don't know in that scene, whether she's manipulating them on purpose with the tears and has already thought of her sunny plan or if she thinks of it in the moment. And so it's sort of like beautifully subtle in that way too. Like, did she manipulate them all along?

SPEAKER_43: Because if so, like, damn, she's very smartly kind of leaves some levels of ambiguity.

SPEAKER_37: Like you were saying with, with sunny too. And I think there is definitely a, an angle of he's grooming her. He's manipulating her. He's taking advantage of being in this situation with this person, but it doesn't, it's, it's not so fine a point on it that it makes him a conventional villain. It's still kind of plays.

SPEAKER_51: Like he's a confused, lonely man. Who's kind of stumbled into this situation as well. Right.

SPEAKER_218: And I think he has imposter syndrome too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_43: Right. And I think like one thing that Liz Merriweather, who, who wrote the series and, uh, Michael Showalter do very well is like, leave it just enough. There's enough open that you could kind of fill in the gaps yourself for who these people really are. Okay.

SPEAKER_64: My next question now is aside from the principal characters of Sonny Bonwali and Elizabeth Holmes, who's your favorite, what would you call them?

SPEAKER_18: Like on the cast list, supporting the supporting cast. So I want you to think about this for a second, because this thing is so rich in supporting characters that I love this prestige TV moment, Lon, where all of these actors who are working on Sundance films, independent films, $60 million dramas who can't get work and, or want to do interesting work. I don't know what the dynamic in Hollywood is, but all of a sudden, all of these people who you would think would never do TV are now showing up in these shows. And they're so good at their craft and they're so, their magnetism has been burned into our brains from cinema and legendary performances that when they show up on a TV show for me as a cinephile,

SPEAKER_00: like all my serotonin, my brain just goes wild. You know, when someone like Stephen Fry or Alan Rock or William H. Macy come on the screen. So who's your favorite or who's doing the best job?

SPEAKER_140: Your favorite. And who's objectively doing the best job and supporting the show.

SPEAKER_75: I mean, you, you, you mentioned Josh Pace as, as Wade, I'm reading it. Mick Mickleton or Mickleton. Yeah. The, the, the Walgreens CFO. Uh, he was, he was amazing. Uh, I would also like to point out, uh, I thought this was brilliant casting.

SPEAKER_291: I don't know if you recognize actor Hart Bochner. He plays Larry Ellison. We meet him on that one scene on his. Yes.

SPEAKER_293: Oh, right. That was an unbelievable scene. That's from Die Hard.

SPEAKER_75: He's the very memorable character from Die Hard. Like Hans Boobie. I'm your white knight. Totally. Hart Bochner. That guy. The bearded coat fiend from Die Hard who gets shot right away.

SPEAKER_47: That's Hart Bochner who's playing Larry Ellison in a really brilliant casting coup.

SPEAKER_200: So do casting people do that lawn where they're like, this guy had this role.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Therefore, this person is similar to that role. It's gonna fire some pattern.

SPEAKER_43: I honestly don't know, but I do think the way that scene was written, it'd be like, you know, this version of Larry Ellison has Ellis from Die Hard energy.

SPEAKER_37: What's, what's Hart Bochner doing? Like I do, I do feel like there's a reality in which that might've happened, but there is also kind of clever casting against type. Like Michael Ironside, uh, is playing Don Lucas and he's a guy we usually think of. He's like a tough guy for, you know, he plays like army soldiers and, you know, drill sergeants or whatever. And yet he's got this, you know, he's an intimidating figure, but he does become kind of more of a, more of a kind figure in her life, more of a mentor, someone who helped her.

SPEAKER_43: So that, that was an interesting twist on, on. Okay.

SPEAKER_309: So who has done the best job and who's your favorite? Best job and your personal favorite.

SPEAKER_43: Oh, I mean, I, I, I liked, I liked both of those guys. I, I also do. I mean, I think Stephen Fry has been really brilliant in the whole show and like,

SPEAKER_51: especially in the last, the most recent episode we've seen where he sort of gets fired and he's got this little kind of sad arc. I thought he really nailed it.

SPEAKER_312: So he's your MVP. Yeah. And then who's your personal favorite?

SPEAKER_51: Well, I mean, I think Amanda Seyfried is, is the star.

SPEAKER_314: No, but after those, after those.

SPEAKER_34: Yeah. I mean, other than those two, that's also fun to see William H. Macy. I don't know. Okay. Who knows?

SPEAKER_03: What do you got, Molly? Who is your like doing the best job supporting and then just like a personal favorite?

Jason Calacanis: Yeah. I mean, I'm with you on the William H. Macy. He's just incredible.

SPEAKER_06: I don't, I also like, I sort of don't want to discount the mom, Elizabeth Marvel. Yes. She's great too. She's only in those, you know, first episodes really intensely, but I just think she did such a great job at walking that line between like kind of awful, but also there, like it's, you know, it's, I don't know. She sort of remind me of like, when I was growing up, we'd be like, grandma, I love you. And my grandma would be like, okay. Right. Just like kind of uncomfortable, but I was there. So I think she did a good, that was just a teeny little performance that I super appreciated. And then honestly, every time William H. Macy comes on with his just like malevolent, disheveled energy, I am a hundred percent riveted. I'm just like, who acts like that? Also shout out to Mary Lynn Rasko from 24. Like I just flashed back all the way to 24 and was like, I want to watch that show all over again. So I give you three. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_201: Okay. That's fine. That's fine.

SPEAKER_64: I think, um, you know, like under the radar, um, uh, who plays Rakesh, who does the lying

SPEAKER_00: on the test and that moment where they're like trying to get the Pfizer contract or whatever, they're traveling internationally and they're, you know, it doesn't work and they decide to lie is like a very dark side, you know, crossing the chasm. Like you can't go back from here. We've just gone over the rubric.

David Friedberg: And you know, his like actually conceding to that was a very underrated moment.

SPEAKER_64: But I think Steven Fry is, uh, really creating the, the heart and soul of the show and like the, the, the moral compass.

David Friedberg: Um, and so he's my personal favorite, but I'm going to give my best supporting to thus far

SPEAKER_251: to the pairing of Josh Pace as the CFO and Alan Ruck as the, a startup obsessed. Dr. J. Dr. J. Dr. J.

SPEAKER_321: It's funny because he's not a basketball player. He's not a basketball player.

SPEAKER_322: That's what makes the joke funny. When Elizabeth Holmes explains the joke and we're like, oh my God, how much Asperger

SPEAKER_326: does this person have? Uh, that comp that those two and that moment is just so in such a great indictment of startup

SPEAKER_00: culture.

SPEAKER_264: I think like an appropriate one where people are like, well, they're doing things differently here. They're doing things differently here. And it's like the guy who's like, yeah, but I, I need to see the technology, the lab guy. I don't know who plays the lab guy who's insisting on seeing the technology.

SPEAKER_328: Oh, that's where Summer from Mad Men.

SPEAKER_06: Yes. He is. Yeah. Oh, the whole cast, by the way, is just like a, it's just a con on every episode is like, oh, it's that guy. Oh, it's that guy. Oh, it's that guy. Oh, it's that guy.

SPEAKER_216: It's like a, that guy fest.

SPEAKER_332: And I'm just going to say, I'm going to tell you who's going to steal the show is when John

SPEAKER_64: Carreyrou shows up, I'm not sure who's playing him, but when John Carreyrou shows up, that's going to be the big one. Yeah. Would it have been better with Kate McKinnon, Lon?

SPEAKER_337: Uh, I mean, I don't, I don't know. I think, uh, you know, she's, she's a good actress. Like she, she probably could have gotten the voice and the look and whatever, but, uh, I don't,

SPEAKER_47: I mean, I had to say Freed's just killing it. I don't know if I would put anybody. What about, um, you know, Adam McKay and Jennifer Lawrence are still circling. They've got their bad blood movie about this same topic still in development.

SPEAKER_340: So I think, do you think she's going to be as good as an Elizabeth Holmes? I think maybe they cancel that one.

SPEAKER_79: Yeah. I feel like this is because she did it so well.

SPEAKER_67: Who wants to come after that performance?

SPEAKER_37: Yeah. I feel like this kind of tells the story and that's what happened with, you know, there's that Joe and Carol Peacock show about tiger King. Uh, and, uh, there was going to be an Amazon show as well about tiger King with Nicholas cage as Joe exotic, but they canceled that one because Peacock got, got there first.

SPEAKER_43: So I feel like that might happen with this as well.

SPEAKER_06: It's a shame for J law too. Cause I think she would have done a pretty good or, and maybe still will do a pretty good

SPEAKER_118: job. But Amanda Seyfried owns this so much that I think for me, at least in my mind, I won't ever even be able to differentiate them.

SPEAKER_06: Like my mental picture of Elizabeth Holmes just became Amanda Seyfried.

SPEAKER_344: It's, it's tough for sure.

SPEAKER_37: I mean, I'm sure it's a different take and like that one's based on John Kerry Rue's book. This one's based on the ABC news podcast. So I'm sure it's a different take on the material as well.

SPEAKER_47: But, uh, yeah, it's a little weird to have two big profile versions of the same story.

SPEAKER_348: It's like those two fire fest documentaries. You just watch them both and compare.

SPEAKER_349: Yeah, I did watch both of them, but I don't remember either. They've, they've kind of blended into.

SPEAKER_43: Because the Netflix one was co-produced by the F. Jerry guys who also worked on fire fest.

SPEAKER_75: So the Hulu one is almost an expose on the Netflix one in a weird way.

SPEAKER_64: Right. Last year, I interviewed CODA CEO Shashir on episode 1160. And we spoke about the productivity renaissance going on in big tech right now.

SPEAKER_91: And that's what CODA is all about. In CODA, your text and tables live together in the same document, and it helps any team collaborate more efficiently. They've got thousands of templates to work with, or you can take the playbooks published by some of the best innovators out there, and you can use them for yourself. CODA works right out of the box and is completely customizable. So you're going to create a wiki or a knowledge hub for your team. You can onboard new hires quickly, and you can adapt fast to any major or minor change in your business. Here's how we use CODA at This Week in Startups. My guy Presh made us an upvoting system on CODA for questions and topics for twist. You go to thisweekinstartups.com slash questions, and you can submit questions and topics that our producers might include in the show. And people can vote them up and down. How awesome is that? And you can go find that template on CODA's website, and you can start your own Q&A for your podcast or maybe an internal meeting you're having. That's the power of CODA. They're going to start you on second base, third base. You're going to be on the way home in some cases. CODA has an amazing startup program. They're going to help you optimize and support your docs. Just go to CODA.io slash twist and you're going to get $1,000 in credits. I love this $1,000 credit.

SPEAKER_227: CODA.io slash twist CODA.io slash twist and get that $1,000 credit now. I don't know how long it's going to last. All right.

SPEAKER_07: So now I'm super pumped. We have to move on to super pumped. Gotta talk about super pumped.

SPEAKER_64: I am far too close to this. And watching Kyle Chandler play Bill Gurley and Joseph Gordon-Levitt play TK makes

Chamath Palihapitiya: it impossible for me to stay in the show.

SPEAKER_18: And so now I've learned what Preet Bharara or, you know, Steve Cohen, when they watch Billions, their problem with, they probably can't watch the show because they're constantly being taken out of it by knowing the principles and saying, this is nothing like the reality.

SPEAKER_337: But I don't, I don't know. Because I don't know, I don't know these people. I mean, obviously I've worked in tech startups and startup companies.

SPEAKER_37: I don't know any of the principles involved in the show. But it does, it does have a realism problem. It does.

SPEAKER_47: It feels more like, I was saying to Molly, I think before we went live to me, this feels more like Wall Street or Wolf of Wall Street or Glengarry Glen Ross or Boiler Room than any real workplace I've ever been in. Like it feels like a movie version of these events.

SPEAKER_367: But not as good as any of those also. Not, not right.

SPEAKER_368: It's not Glengarry.

SPEAKER_37: David Mamet didn't write this bad boy, but you know, you get what I'm saying. In that it feels like an attempt to sort of riff on that style of storytelling or the social network.

SPEAKER_43: I mean, that, that Fincher film and, and Sorkin style in general, I feel like they're kind of

SPEAKER_16: people always say that the social network is the best film of the 21st century or something,

SPEAKER_264: or some people say that, or it's in the top 10. I do not say that, but. You do not say that. Why are so many people obsessed with that film and like the screenwriting and the dialogue, which to me feels almost too over the top or overproduced. Am I right? Am I that Sorkin style of people don't actually speak like that in the real world?

SPEAKER_377: Yeah. I mean, Sorkin, he's, he's a, look, he's a playwright.

SPEAKER_37: And I mean, it's all, there's a theatricality to everything. Like to certainly that, that Chicago seven movie and the Lucy and Desi movie had it too. And West wing is very, like, they're all at work giving monologues to one another too. Uh, so I think you kind of that, that kind of comes with the territory. I do think it's a pretty good screenplay because it's so structurally like complicated. Like you're jumping around in time, it's multiple lawsuits, it's flashbacks. And yet it's always like very clear. It's never confusing. Like you get exactly what the beats are.

SPEAKER_47: Um, I think it's a good movie, but I, yeah, I don't think it's like definitive. Like, this is the only way to tell a story about a startup and it has influence.

SPEAKER_51: Like every other startup story now feels like it has to like nod to what social network did in some way. Got it.

SPEAKER_274: And I think this is like, we were saying this before the show, this feels like

SPEAKER_06: poor man's Aaron Sorkin, the writing, like it's so forced. It's such a, a sort of obvious attempt. I have to go back though and say, I won't hear a word against the West wing. Unfortunately, it's just after that. I don't hate it or sports night. But after that Sorkin became a caricature of himself. And then now super pumped is like a caricature of the caricature that Orkin, Aaron Sorkin became. And it's just so forced. Like there is nothing authentic feeling about it at all. So I feel like even if you didn't know, even if you don't know, like, I know the characters in a very removed way and it still is just like, it's all, it's crazy to cover them.

SPEAKER_386: Yes, they're not your friends. It's cringy. Like it is actually cringy to me.

SPEAKER_37: It just, it feels, it feels a little, it feels a little on the nose. So that's what you're always trying to sort of avoid when you're telling this kind of like, we're going to give you the real behind the scenes story of what really goes down in these Silicon Valley rooms. Like you have to, if you're going for that kind of authenticity, you have to like land it.

SPEAKER_47: It has to really feel like this is what these guys would be saying to each other in these rooms. And it feels a little, it feels a little bit too like explanation. Like you're, you're bringing the audience in and like, here's what a deal is. And it's like, no, no, no. These guys would just be talking. They're all immersed in this world.

SPEAKER_137: Yeah. And valicious is what I, is a word I may have invented for this or stolen from.

SPEAKER_64: Yeah. I just like the scene where TK, uh, drives Bill Gurley home in a Uber and they're like outside

David Friedberg: of his mansion and you know, it's a rolling gate and they're like, you, you got rid of the cabs just so that we get picked up. And he's like, yeah, and you did this. And it's like this, like 4d chess is going on.

SPEAKER_18: And like, I was there for all this stuff and he's like, I'm your VC. Am I your VC? I think you're my VC. And I'm like, this is the, not how these conversations happen. Right.

SPEAKER_395: Because for these guys, this is work.

SPEAKER_37: This is like their job. Yeah. It's not this, like, it's not a movie scene. That's like so, you know, special and like dialogue-y and theatrical. Exactly.

SPEAKER_396: It's more like, what's the valuation? Okay. How did you come to the valuation? And then.

SPEAKER_397: I'm so glad you're saying this too, because I did have this moment of like, wait, is that, am I supposed to be doing that?

SPEAKER_344: Like, am I supposed to be like, finish my sentence?

SPEAKER_37: And I, and I get that you can't go for pure mundanity. Like that's not what people want. They don't want to watch a show that feels like a day at work for people. Like it has to feel exciting and dramatic in some way, but it's a balance. You can't go too far. It feels like what this show feels like, which is cartoony.

SPEAKER_401: Like a, like an over the top, overblown version of, of all of these conversations.

SPEAKER_404: Uh, yeah. It's literally, I was just realizing it's like two of my best friends are the two principles.

SPEAKER_407: Like literally. And I think that's why it's just so impossible to watch. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_117: I don't want to put you on the spot then.

SPEAKER_408: Okay. No, go ahead. At all. Go ahead. Put it on the spot. You put it on the spot.

Jason Calacanis: Whereas Amanda Seyfried as the dropout is nuanced and you see her developing and yes,

SPEAKER_06: she turns into the dark side, but there's like some mannequin there in the beginning. This portrayal of TK has like no Anakin whatsoever. Right. It's like, he is a awful sociopath from word one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_308: No, no one really gets shading on this show and not at all. TK least of all.

SPEAKER_410: Yeah. Least of all. And so do you feel like that's a little, do you feel like that's unfair?

SPEAKER_411: I do. I, you know, TK is a very, uh, herring, emotional, sensitive person that is totally left out of

SPEAKER_18: that. What people don't know is behind the scenes, like this was, I'm not gonna talk about any conversations I've had or anything, but like, this was not easy on him. He struggled. He wanted to be a great leader. And, you know, he was taking on this wartime, uh, stance because there was no choice. If he did not go to war with the mafia, the, the people who own the medallions, the regulators,

SPEAKER_105: the regulators who were in fact corrupt, like that was actually true, uh, the special interest, there would be no Uber and there would be no advancement of society. And he really had no choice, but to fight a war in every city. And so once you get into that wartime mentality, yes, you know, that is accurate that it was a, it was a war stance company, but so was Airbnb.

SPEAKER_264: And they had to fight the war with regulators in every city who were like the way we interpret this ancient breakfast, renting your room law is this. Yeah. And they're like, okay, we're doing that. And they're like, no, you're not.

SPEAKER_37: Here's my real Travis versus TK on the show question. Yeah. Uh, is he constantly making very obscure, intricate movie and literary references?

SPEAKER_47: Is that drawn from real life? Because it feels very writerly in the show, but then I thought, well, I don't know the real guy.

SPEAKER_37: Maybe he, maybe he will say things like I'm much more of an Emerson than a Thoreau in this case. You know, at one point they're like, this could be something you'd go to jail for. And he goes, Hey, just so you know, I'm more Emerson than Thoreau in this case. Like, that's not something I've ever heard a guy say in a startup company type scenario.

SPEAKER_415: I don't know that guy.

SPEAKER_367: Maybe a lot of weird literary references. And especially the first episode where I was just like, am I dumb?

SPEAKER_294: There's also a scene where he's talking to his girlfriend and he calls her a Lawrence Dodd. And she goes, you're no Freddie Quell.

SPEAKER_37: Those are the characters from Paul Thomas Anderson's the master.

SPEAKER_313: Yeah. That's obscure folks.

SPEAKER_264: Yeah. No, that's, that's not TK. Um, what they did get right. Was they, the guy who wrote the book, listened to the two hour interview I did with TK famously on this podcast. Sure. And a lot of the stuff in that podcast and the three hour one I did with Chris Saka are in the show. So like the Wii tennis thing comes directly from the soccer interview where he was the number one Wii tennis player. And like when the business insider person who wrote like the business insider, 10,000 piece said, like, I basically listened to TK on that special this week in startups to our episode. And that's the bones of the architecture of it. And that's where Mike Isaac got it from. So a lot of it came from that. And so there are some moments in there that are true, like the Wii tennis and,

David Friedberg: you know, they did have some big parties in Vegas. And there were journalists who were, you know, obsessed with getting TK and, you know, all that

SPEAKER_01: stuff. So, um, and the guy who plays Emil Michael, that's that character is nothing like a meal.

SPEAKER_424: It's so one dimensional.

Jason Calacanis: It just like, he shows up and all of a sudden we have no idea what his motivations are, except I guess we assume money from his occasional remarks, but he just shows up and is like suddenly this weird, like Tony slash the wolf cleanup character.

SPEAKER_377: Right. That's kind of what I don't know why or care. That's kind of what I'm saying. Like, yeah, like the dropouts interested in the people.

SPEAKER_88: It's like if this story happened, but it's really interesting because of all of these odd, interesting people and how, how they, how they created this story. And these things happen because of who these people are.

SPEAKER_37: And I think super pumped is much more like, I'm going to give you the low down on what happened. Like, here's what happens with VCs that you don't get to hear about. It's trying, it's trying to be like cool. And it's trying to be about those power dynamics.

SPEAKER_47: And I just, it's, it's less interesting to me on some level.

SPEAKER_03: Trying to explain the story of Uber might not be a great story to tell. Whereas telling the story of Elizabeth Holmes might be a great story to tell.

SPEAKER_47: But I do feel like Travis, Travis Kalanick story is a good story. Like a dramatic story where regardless of how you feel about him as a person, it's a rise and fall. It's a very dramatic thing that happened to this guy. And so I do feel like there's a good story to tell there.

SPEAKER_37: I just feel like they're focusing on the, like, oh, we'll get Tarantino to explain the whole thing. Like it's like casino and they're trying to do like Scorsese or whatever. And it's like, it's not that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_434: Like, you know, I just, it's not cool in that way. It's like, give us the real, give us the real dynamic.

SPEAKER_264: Cool enough to be like, here's how a casino works. Let me show you with those voiceovers. Anytime they're doing voiceovers to me in a movie, when voiceovers happen, it's like, okay, this is probably gonna fail. Like if you have to resort and sometimes voiceovers work, but I don't know for me, it's always the red flag in a film story through characters and scenes. So we got to resort to something to advance the storyline and a voiceover with the F word

SPEAKER_06: in it every time, right? Like every time the voiceover comes on, it's so Quentin Tarantino. It's like, if you're not doing it, you're in the way. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Like, I feel like what's really forced about this show is the BDE. Like, I don't need this much BDE coming at me from my screen right now.

SPEAKER_440: Like, I'm just trying to have a glass of wine and unwind. Like, it's relaxed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_124: It's, it's a little try hard.

SPEAKER_442: It's trying to impress you and like, make you think this is like badass and cool. And what's better than a million dollars, a billion dollars, you know? And it's just like,

SPEAKER_264: It's cool. It's like, yeah. And then, well, the plane scene where they're like, here's Bill Gurley at his hangar and he's talking about like Rich Barton's playing.

SPEAKER_104: He's like, well, what about Larry Page is playing? And I was just like, literally nobody talks like this about planes in the valley. Like, people are like, I have a plane. I got a net jets. I got this, whatever. It's like, yeah. Okay. I'll see you at, you know, Art Basel, whatever. You need a ride.

SPEAKER_00: It's, it's, it's much more like talking about like transportation than talking about like the model of the plane. You know, who talks about the model of the plane? People without planes. Yeah. Like people who don't have, I don't have a plane. Yeah. I'm going to tell you all the different things about the different models. Once you have a plane, you're kind of like, yeah, it just, it gets me from point A to point B and that's it, you know? That's my plan. And that's it.

SPEAKER_449: That's like, I would never talking about his plane.

SPEAKER_450: You just say, show up and he's got a plane. Exactly. And it's like, producer Nick's like, wait, just like you.

SPEAKER_264: It's like, exactly. Everybody I know. Literally the people who don't have planes are online trying to pick one. Then once you have one, it's like, they're all the same. They cost 6,000 an hour to operate.

SPEAKER_104: You have to have a million dollars a year to burn. If you want to have one, the end and you can get somewhere fast and it's not worth it, but it's pretty cool. It's a status thing. Come on.

SPEAKER_105: Well, there's a, I would say the plane thing is it's not necessarily a status thing. It's, um, uh, what do I do with all this money now?

SPEAKER_461: Right.

SPEAKER_105: Because I'm going to be dead soon.

SPEAKER_462: Which is another version of a status thing.

David Friedberg: Well, it's like, okay, I'll be dead in 20 years. There's X amount of dollars in the bank. I make this much off of the interest on it. And okay. I could budget a million dollars for this a year. And I make that off of my interest or more of 10 times out of my interest on my fling. So why not get it? Cause I'll be dead soon. And I can go on cool trips and not have to go out there. Um, that's it beginning and end.

SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at some point you, Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I didn't say at some point you crossed the rubric where you're like,

David Friedberg: yeah, it's not going to financially ruin me. So I'll just get it. Right.

SPEAKER_88: I was going to ask my last thing was, have you ever met Larry page? And what did you think of the depiction by Ben Feldman? Also of mad men, another man.

SPEAKER_30: I didn't see the, I'm not caught up. So I didn't see the last episode.

SPEAKER_264: Did he play him as like very introverted and having the, uh, vocal cord issue where he's raspy.

SPEAKER_37: It felt, it felt cartoonish to me, but I have not met Larry page. So I was curious as to how realistic. I've had many hour long conversations with Larry page. It feels very much like, uh, wackadoo Silicon Valley. Like it, like Mark Rylance and don't look up like, oh, you know, those head in the clouds,

SPEAKER_47: wacky tech guys where they can't focus for three minutes and they're off in their own world. It's incredibly focused.

SPEAKER_386: Most people would say he's, he's super introverted and he talks in a low voice.

SPEAKER_06: It's extremely, uh, cartoonish. They don't go heavily into the voice thing, but I, I will say I do like that scene because it's the only time you actually see our absurd cartoon cutout of TK have his bubble punctured. By someone who's clearly so much more brilliant than him and asks only two questions. And just like two questions and both of them are like a murder.

SPEAKER_51: Yeah. Who can see through him instantly. Like that's his, it's his Laurie Metcalf moment where it's just like, here's a person who's not going to fall for any of your ridiculous nonsense. Totally.

David Friedberg: Uh, is there a best scene or a best performance for either of you? Uh, I'll ask what's your favorite scene in super pumped and the best performance.

SPEAKER_64: Cause we just went through unbelievable performances in super pumped.

David Friedberg: We were falling over each other to try to figure out how, you know, how many Emmys Amanda Seyfried is going to win and people's choice awards.

SPEAKER_234: And, uh, yeah, any, any standout performances for anybody?

SPEAKER_37: Uh, I mean, I think Kyle Chandler, I think, I think Kyle Chandler has been pretty good. And I think he's got the most, the most to play with so far. I think Joseph Gordon-Levitt that, that, that, that, that, that version of Travis Kalan, it's very one note. It's just like, he's incredibly driven. He's gleefully a moral. He's very aggressive. And like, we get it. And like, he's, he's doing a good job of playing that, but that's all there is to really play.

SPEAKER_88: And I think that at least with Kyle Chandler, they've given bill Gurley. He's, he's conflicted. He wants the money. He wants the status. He thinks this kid is probably going to be effective, but he we're starting, especially

SPEAKER_47: in the later episode, I think the third episode, he's starting to feel more like, do I really want my name attached to this? Do I really want this to be my avatar in this world?

SPEAKER_43: And at least like, like there's, there's meat on that bone, I think for him to play.

SPEAKER_332: So John Bass as Garrett camp, terrible.

SPEAKER_377: I mean, there, there, it's not the actor's fault. I think like Carrie Bichet is, who's Austin. She's like the, the driver recruiter.

SPEAKER_37: She's actually pretty good, actually. She's doing good. And I like, I've certainly worked with people like that. And I feel like that is a type of person that you meet at startups. So like the true believer, uh, you know, who becomes like the, the trusted Lieutenant.

SPEAKER_47: Um, it's just, again, it's like a little one, like that's all she is in that show. We don't have any other shades for that person.

SPEAKER_06: There's one scene, the only human scene I have encountered in this whole, in all of the watching of this show actually involves her where she is on one of these trips where she's trying to recruit people and, or maybe she's in San Francisco and the drivers are like harassing her, the taxi drivers. And she goes to her hotel room and go opens the mini bar to get a drink out of it. And you realize that she's a recovering alcoholic and there's no booze in the mini fridge. And she calls TK and is like, Hey, thanks for that. Right.

SPEAKER_494: That was actually a good moment. I actually noticed that moment as well. That was a lovely moment.

SPEAKER_56: Cause it's a, it's a detail that conflicts with what we've seen. We've seen Travis as he's like, you know, a sociopath. Right. And then here's this scene that like, no, no, he, he cares about her.

SPEAKER_171: He knows her totally humanizing for both of them. Like both of them get to be a human for a minute. Right. And it's all too brief. Like it's all too brief. And then it's gone.

SPEAKER_88: That's what they needed a lot more of less bombastic pearl jam needle drops and montages of traffic in San Francisco and like less of that over the top stuff.

SPEAKER_264: And what was the video game where like they made Travis is in a video game. I kind of liked that moment. Cause I thought that's authentic to Travis's personality. He does look at all this as a video game to be mastered. So I did think that that was an interesting concept and I liked the risk taking on it, but I don't think they, it worked, but I don't know. Did it work for either of you?

SPEAKER_505: Like I'm taking New York.

SPEAKER_37: Alienating. Beating up mayor de Blasio at a fighting game. Like you, you, you hope that that stuff comes through in the subtext. So you don't have to like show it like, yeah.

SPEAKER_313: Yeah.

SPEAKER_264: So it was my kind of version of like voiceover is dumb. Is there an example of voiceover working really well in a movie? Because it destroyed the original additive.

SPEAKER_37: I brought up, um, Scorsese is like the king of this, where it's like casino is wall to wall people talking at you on the soundtrack, but it like, uh, you know, it's the flavor of the movie. And it does, it feels like he gives you that experience of this is like a gangster grabbing you by the shoulder and like taking you through his world. And you do, it does feel like that peek behind the curtain. It's the vibe they wanted for this. They just don't quite get there.

SPEAKER_47: But a lot of the time, I think the Scorsese stuff is a relative rarity. Most of the time it's a crutch.

SPEAKER_51: It's like, I don't know how to get this information across to the viewer any other way.

SPEAKER_16: So I'm going to have somebody say it in voiceover and then, so I'm going to say, no, I was going to say just this, the greatest performance in the show is, oh, well, well, I was gonna say,

SPEAKER_06: I love Kyle Chandler a lot. Like who doesn't love Kyle Chandler as an actor, as an actor, right? But if I were Bill Gurley, I would be a little annoyed at being portrayed as basically like dopey dog. Who's always a little bit, you know, a step behind or like getting cut out of the loop. And why is he wearing that Pixies shirt in front of the airplanes? Like that was so, that was such a weird, obvious, like clunker that I'm, I'm like, I have a dilemma because I, I, I love him. And I want him to just shout like clear eyes, full hearts can't lose at TK. But instead he just comes off like derp and derp.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I, I love Elizabeth shoe and anything she does and playing TK's mom. Uh, she's very sweet.

SPEAKER_335: I don't know if it's super accurate. I mean, I've met TK's mom a couple of times, uh, but.

SPEAKER_260: But it's just like, and yeah, even that it's like, we, we've met her, we've seen them together a few times.

SPEAKER_377: She's supportive, but I don't like what there's, doesn't seem to be really like a bear there. Like she doesn't really have much to, to play.

SPEAKER_88: I mean, I thought Kyle Chandler was the best performance in the show, but I, I agree that kind of, because of, you know, the, the take is kind of straightforward and simple that he's kind

SPEAKER_47: of, he's kind of in this role of like, well, he's the guy that didn't get how bad things were going to get. And they kind of make him, he, he gets stuck with sort of as the patsy, like, well, he didn't real,

SPEAKER_37: you know, he's got that line early on where it's like the secret to, you've got to recognize

SPEAKER_43: all founders are David Koresh and you just got to get out before they go full Jonestown or, and whatever, whatever that line is.

SPEAKER_37: And it's like not something anybody would ever say. I exactly like that to me, that doesn't feel, I can't imagine any VC I've ever met talking about their companies or their founders that way. And it, it sets him up as like, well, now you're having him say early on that like, well, this is his failure. He doesn't get out in time.

SPEAKER_133: Like it kind of sets up this really simple dynamic of like, he just got the timing wrong. That's why this happened. Yeah. So there you have it folks.

SPEAKER_332: So smart. Yeah. Clearly there's a winner here in terms of the shows.

SPEAKER_37: The show only works if we believe that Bill Gurley is very smart. That's the whole dynamic of it. Well, he's gotta be in real life. Of course, I'm just talking about it in the show.

SPEAKER_47: I'm just saying like, they don't, they need to do a better job of establishing that because they basically set him up to be the dope in this scenario. And like, we, the audience have to be impressed by his intelligence that for the drama to play.

SPEAKER_51: Of course, in real life, Bill Gurley is very smart. Nobody, nobody would ever do that. All right.

SPEAKER_03: So we will be back in two weeks with Lon. Hopefully if he has time and a schedule for us. Let's do it. Uh, we have to get him a gift bag or something here, Nick, uh, or something too.

SPEAKER_330: I got a pie cake and I'm fine. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_264: I said that pie cake. You got, we were a part of the pie cake. I got a Valentine's day pie cake and it was delicious.

SPEAKER_03: Uh, that was, um, I was like, I'm going for the stunt gift for Valentine's day. I got on gold belly and I was like, wait a second, a pie with a cheesecake on top of it.

SPEAKER_251: With then like a red velvet cake.

SPEAKER_75: Right. Yeah. It's a red velvet on top. And then it's a New York cheesecake in the middle. And then a chocolate pecan pie on the bottom.

SPEAKER_407: And I sent it to everybody who worked for me for Valentine's day. And I just put a little note. How much do we love this team or something? Yeah. Trumpish. And, uh, okay.

SPEAKER_557: How much do we love our team? We love the pie cake and don't we folks do we love a pie cake?

SPEAKER_72: And I just literally was like, what would Trump say when he says a pie cake? Wow. I didn't see that coming, but good job guys. Good impressions.

SPEAKER_558: Did you get the pie cake? Were you here for? You were here for. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: I got mine a week later. Cause I was out of town. It's like a nine pound dessert. It's so gratuitous.

SPEAKER_560: But wait till you see what I'm going to do for, uh, yeah. Memorial day. You guys. I love this job. Is it Memorial day or labor day?

SPEAKER_03: What's coming up first? Memorial day. Memorial. Memorial. Memorial and July 4th. You guys are totally screwed. Cause I'm, it's literally.

SPEAKER_470: They've got a pie cake in for every holiday. I don't know if you saw the insert.

SPEAKER_64: No, I'm definitely not going pie cake again. That was so gratuitous and over the top. It's like a one time. I was like, is this a gag gift? Or is this thing going to taste? It actually tasted good.

SPEAKER_568: It was very good. It was, I had to, I shared it with a lot. It was way too much for even a few people, but.

SPEAKER_18: Well, sending a bunch of people who, you know, probably the average person has a 1.5 person household. You know, in our companies. Yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_571: So much.

SPEAKER_264: So like sending them a cake would be like, okay, we'll get through this. But sending them essentially three cakes stacked on top of each other. I couldn't get through it. And I got three Raptor daughters who eat every, they're basically eating whatever fortune I've amassed at this point.

SPEAKER_01: And I need to keep working because of the amount of blueberries and blackberries these kids eat. You can't get a plane because of the berries. Exactly. I can have a plane right now. And these get that it's all going to berry fuel.

SPEAKER_00: All right, Lon. So we'll have Lon back either next week or the week after to go over more episodes.

SPEAKER_64: And then the next show we've all agreed to watch is Ben Stiller's tour de force on Apple TV. Severance. Severance.

SPEAKER_18: And I purposely did not watch it in real time because this weekly thing kills me. I like to binge watch. I'm an Ozark guy. I want all my episodes at once.

David Friedberg: If I have time for three episodes, two, 1.5, I want the optionality.

SPEAKER_43: I think you've got five severances to catch up on at this point. So there's a few left to go in season one, but you've got plenty to binge already have been released. Perfect.

SPEAKER_578: That's what I'm looking for is something I can binge. So let's do the first, we'll say the first three or four episodes. Sure.

SPEAKER_75: I mean, I'm all caught up. It's okay. We'll try to catch up then. It is like troubling. Yes, that's what I want.

SPEAKER_313: Mind F sci-fi for sure. Oh, I love mind effing sci-fi. So I don't know if it's like super binge friendly. Get me out of the BDE friendly. I agree.

Jason Calacanis: I think it would be a hard one to binge because you have to like stop and like. Oh, it's kind of like euphoria. Put it sink in and have a couple weird dreams about it.

SPEAKER_124: Yeah, it's it's like there is something about it that is particularly like anxiety inducing and

SPEAKER_75: troubling for me, but I love I'm obsessed with it. It's okay. Cause this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_585: It's really rising on Twitter. Cause Ben Stiller has decided to go full engagement.

SPEAKER_03: Uh, cause Ben and I follow each other. I just, I don't know if I mentioned that four times, but, um, we got a little bromance going, but, uh, six times, uh, I watching him cause you know, the algorithm, if you interact with each

SPEAKER_264: other, like, you know, kind of surfaces this on Twitter and I'm watching his replies. He's replying to people who don't like it.

SPEAKER_01: And he's like, well, maybe you should find another show or maybe you should do this or, you know, it's okay. Like you don't have to stop mail for everybody. Like, I'm like, is that Ben Stiller going full contact in Twitter? I like it. Oh, I like it. I like it. Uh, so shout out, he's now Ben Stiller. He got rid of red hour, Ben. He went to just at Ben Stiller, but he's proud of the show.

SPEAKER_264: Cause he's doing the full circuit. He's on like every podcast doing live speaking.

SPEAKER_176: He executive produced and directed. I think the first two or three, uh, and it's a lot of like Patricia Arquette,

SPEAKER_79: who's like a frequent collaborator of his. She's in it fantastic. Oh, I saw that Dannemora, which I love. Right. I like, yeah, yeah. I like that more.

SPEAKER_528: It's so good. I'm excited to talk.

SPEAKER_00: All right. There we go. All right.

SPEAKER_364: Okay, Lon, thanks for coming on. We'll see you next time inside.com slash streaming and at lawns on Twitter. L O N S.

SPEAKER_593: He's early for Twitter lawns.

SPEAKER_364: See you next time. All right. Thank you so much to Lon Harris for joining us. We're going to have him back in a week or two to do our this weekend

SPEAKER_03: streaming segments on Thursdays. Uh, great job. You can follow him on Twitter.com slash L O N S.

SPEAKER_01: And, uh, at the end of the show, Molly sat down for a quick interview with Nick McHenry of one shop. One of our investments.

SPEAKER_386: That's right.

Jason Calacanis: We talked about, uh, building in the e-commerce and retail space and how he plans on scaling. What is sometimes a pretty tough business, but maybe not for him. It's a great interview. So enjoy. All right. Stick with us.

SPEAKER_06: Nick McHenry from one shop. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Molly. All right. So remind us about your launch journey.

SPEAKER_367: Which accelerator cohort were you in and what was, what happened?

SPEAKER_596: Yeah.

SPEAKER_597: I mean, we were in launch class of 2021, sorry, class 21 in 2021. Um, so, uh, with February 21, we went through the launch accelerator. It was great. We raised a $1.1 million seed round coming out of the accelerator, uh, partly through the syndicate and then also through outside investors. We placed second in the launch rankings and we just had an amazing experience.

SPEAKER_599: That's great.

Jason Calacanis: Um, well, I want to talk about where you are now, but first remind everybody what one shop does.

SPEAKER_597: Yeah, absolutely. So one shop is an omnichannel communication or commerce platform where we facilitate, uh, for physical retail stores, the post sale communication and product recommendations. So we facilitate text and email communication from either a salesperson level or from a local store level of which customers can engage in a really fun shopping experience where they can get localized recommendations. They can favorite things. They can shop those things. They can pick up in store or buy e-commerce and really just stay connected and get that physical in-store experience anywhere outside the store or on their couch. You connect stores with customers directly through these multiple

SPEAKER_118: channels of communication. And then you help them personalize those communications.

SPEAKER_597: Yep, exactly. So traditionally pre one shop, there was really two forms of communications that you could possibly get in any retail experience. You get the top level brand communication, which is standard marketing. So the blast either text or email from the store, or that really more the brand, the top level company, or you might get lucky and spend a lot of money at a luxury retail store and get a personal text message from a stylist at that sales floor. One shop sits in the middle where you still get consistent, personalized communication, except it's at scale. So even if you spend $10 at the store, you have access to that store's personnel, you have access to keeping up to date on what's arriving at that store, as opposed to just a total brand broadcast level.

SPEAKER_06: So as we're talking those who cannot see us, you are you've got a rack of clothing and a mannequin

Jason Calacanis: behind you. And the way you're describing this sounds like you're pretty deep in the operations of these retailers. Is that true?

SPEAKER_604: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we are very, very deep. I mean, I travel a lot spent a lot of time on retail

SPEAKER_597: sales floor because really our mission and our mantra is taking the in-store experience anywhere. So very literally, when you shop online, you get one experience. And when you shop in-store, you get another experience. Those 2 things are completely separate. They're completely separate departments at retailers. If you want to get to support, you get 1 support online. If you go to a store, you'll get another person. And we're really trying to unify those things and create what we would call true omni-channel experience. So in order to do that, we really need to put ourselves in the shoes of the retail experience. So in my home office, at my actual office, we literally have a point of sale set up, experience when we're building our product, what it feels like to check out at the register, what it feels like to opt in, what it feels like to leave that store and go home and get that first text message to go through our opt-in flow and really put ourselves in the shoes of the customer.

Jason Calacanis: I mean, you are literally describing my Athleta hell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Specifically. Why are retailers so bad at this? What did they do that created this opportunity

Jason Calacanis: for you to unify these parts of their business?

SPEAKER_597: Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's a complicated problem because really like, you know, retailer has been saying that word omni-channel for a long time, basically for a decade. Now, the buzzword has been omni-channel, omni-channel, omni-channel, but you essentially have,

SPEAKER_137: I feel like we should back up, which, what does that mean? I mean, I know what it means, but right. They've been saying it for so long that everybody, it became like a word with no meaning.

SPEAKER_597: Yeah. So, I mean, omni-channel, what it should mean is a singular experience of the customer, whether it's a physical experience or they're shopping online, it's one continuous experience across many different channels, Instagram shopping or online or in-store. How it's actualized is just saying, you know, e-commerce and in-store, basically a combination of those two things. Right. But what hasn't happened is... With a little like a side of spam here and there. Exactly. With a side of spam here and there, 100%. And what you're actually interacting with traditionally is 3 departments at a retailer, and they don't talk to each other. The e-commerce experience, the marketing, team slash support, and then the physical stores themselves. And these become bifurcated experiences because they're really not talking to each other. They say omni-channel, basically combining these together, but it really is 3 separate teams, 3 separate experiences. And it's just been hard even with COVID, especially with COVID, to really create the operational or software excellence to create that universal experience. What size retailers do you work with? So we work with anything from Main Street to some of the largest enterprise retailers you could possibly imagine. The reality of it is, is that even an enterprise retailer, because our approach is hyper-personalized, actually is a basically combination of several small retailers. Most retailers, even if you go to a mall, is inline retail, which are traditionally 1500 to 2000 square foot stores staffed by, let's say, anywhere from one to... I mean, nowadays, it's really one to five people. If you walk into an Abercrombie, there's really only four to five people working traditionally on the floor. So each store we see as their own individual retailer amongst this larger brand. So our ideal customer fit is really, we say like 10 to 50. But we do work with single store mom and pop retailers, upwards of 50 to 100 locations.

Jason Calacanis: How does your customer acquisition work on both sides? The consumer and the retailer?

SPEAKER_597: Yeah. So we really focus on the retailer themselves, because we essentially acquire the customer through the retailer. So because we integrate with their point of sale in Ecommerce, we don't necessarily need to focus on that. They are opting into a one shop experience, which means that the customer can get communication through one shop through any retailer they'd like to shop at. But we really focus on acquiring the retailer themselves, integrate with their point of sale, Ecommerce, CRM, ERP, wherever we need to go, and then through our communication channel, start to acquire those customers through them.

Jason Calacanis: And then how does the business model work? Is it just the retailer paying you for the service? Or do you also get sort of a cut of what customers are buying?

SPEAKER_597: Yeah, so we have a hybrid model. So we charge a similar to say most Ecommerce platforms will have a SaaS fee that gets you up and running on one shop. And then we will also monetize primarily the payments flow. So we'll monetize any of this hybrid community or hybrid commerce channel, which is any localized messages sent through us and any product recommendations sent through us, we take a small percentage of that sale as well.

Jason Calacanis: Gotcha. Are you also in the process of gathering like super cool data about what is most effective? Like how is text messaging working compared to Instagram?

SPEAKER_597: We have very cool data when it comes to all these things, because we see everything we see the inventory flow, we see the customer in store purchase, we see the online purchase, we see their marketing messages, and we see their one shop communication. So we see, you know, exactly what their purchase patterns are across several retailers, which messages when work and in which way, especially with what types of products that customers actually wanting, because we can see across a large data set, what they're not just buying, but in one shop, we have a, let's just call it like tinderfication effect where you can favorite things or thumbs down things to sort of give us further data on your personal preferences. So we combine that with sales history, size history, all of that, to really get interesting data on even forecasting what you might not even know yourself you might be interested in.

Jason Calacanis: Right. Do you imagine a universe in which you can monetize that data and use that pretty efficiently and for retailers also?

SPEAKER_597: So I would say we already are monetizing it in the sense that we monetize the transaction. So the more transactions we can drive for our retailers, the more revenue our retailers get, and the more revenue our company gets. So our focus is on really just driving more transaction revenue through those channels. So by doing that, we have, you know, a data scientist in our team that does the algorithm for the product recommendations. By looking at the messaging flow and what messages work, we're really just focused on aligning our incentives with the retailer. So if we both drive transaction revenue together, we all win.

SPEAKER_06: Yep, totally. All right. Well, speaking of winning, tell us how things have been in the last 12 months of business. It sounds like you continue to accelerate, no pun intended.

SPEAKER_597: Yeah, no. So it's been great. I mean, we are trying to keep up with growth, to be honest with you. I mean, when we joined the accelerator, we literally had, you know, well, less than 100 stores in the platform, we had about $7,000 in monthly recurring revenue. We just passed $30,000 a month in revenue. And that's actually throttled growth because we have retailers waiting to be onboarded onto the platform. And we just continue to grow from there. We're in over 225 stores across the US and Canada. And we're super excited for what 2022

SPEAKER_367: has in store. Yeah, I mean, let me help brag a little more over 4x and MRR growth,

SPEAKER_06: you're servicing over 200 stores drove over $10 million in sales from communication and recommendations from one shop. So your only barrier now is you're just too successful. You're just too good at this. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a barrier,

SPEAKER_597: but I would say the bigger barrier to be honest with you, I mean, it's not even a one shop barrier. It's that retail has had, as most people know, if you haven't been, you know, alive the last couple of years, it's had a go at it, you know, it's basically in the last 24 months, had to forego a period where there was no natural foot traffic, to a period where literally everybody overnight decided to go to physical stores the next day and shop where they had no staff to even literally facilitate the people coming into their store, just sort of this actualization of where we're at now. So a bigger macro challenge for us is just to continue to adapt to the changing retail environment. Moving from, you know, everyone's talking about ecommerce in 2020, to now kind of this backlash against ecommerce and a really heavy focus on physical retail in 2022. So we're just sort of ebbing and flowing with the entire industry, I'd say when that comes to it.

SPEAKER_599: Fascinating. All right. Well, I can tell you, I'm never giving up my ecommerce and I know I'm not

SPEAKER_06: alone. Nick McHenry. There's a lot of people there.

SPEAKER_627: Nick McHenry, CEO of OneShop. Thanks so much for checking in with us. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Molly.

SPEAKER_629: Hey, everyone. Producer Nick here. I want to tell you about the SaaS syndicate. If you're a founder of a SaaS company with a product in market, our investment team wants to talk to you. Head over to thesyndicate.com slash SaaS, S-A-A-S, to apply to raise from the SaaS syndicate. And you can join Jason's syndicate of over 9,000 accredited investors at thesyndicate.com. Producer Justin here. No cool

SPEAKER_630: startup. Check out openscouting.com, where anyone can refer a startup to our investment team here at launch. Even if you don't know the founder, if you're the first to flag a company for us and we decide to invest, you'll get 5K in cash or 10% of our carry. Hey, everybody. Producer Rachel here.

SPEAKER_634: Are you an early stage startup that has product in market, some traction, and are looking to raise at least $500,000? Apply today to Remote Demo Day for your chance to pitch to over 9,000 investors in Jason's syndicate. Submit your application at remotedemoday.com. Our next event is on April 27th.

SPEAKER_629: And if you want to learn how to invest in startups from the world's greatest angel investor, and no, we're not talking about Chris Saka, then head to angel.university to apply. The four-hour workshop costs $300 and all proceeds are donated to charity. To date, we've donated over $175,000 to various charities, and you can see the full list at angel.university slash charity.