SPEAKER_00: all right everybody welcome back to twist it's march 4th 20 26 yeah wow i know still feels still sounds weird still sounds weird but it is a 39 39 39 days after we first started talking about

SPEAKER_04: open claw here it's been a full one month and one third and it is still sweeping through the internet it's become the number one number one open source project in history based on people

SPEAKER_05: following it you know stars like yeah get kind of situation the stars exceeded react now the so we

SPEAKER_04: have a full docket for you today lots of demos lots of discourse the investment opportunity the efficiency opportunity the entrepreneurial opportunity all of that and when the world is this chaotic line you know what i like to do i like to go over here to my plot pin oh there you go there it is i got one yeah that's my plot pin now what is that you say this is the greatest device ever i i press that button and now i'm recording and there's a red light on it so i'm not invading

SPEAKER_13: anybody's privacy but here i am and what happens is i can say something lon to you like make a note we need a landing page for hiring the two new researchers we need for the new this week in ai paid newsletter and that this week in startups paid newsletter um here's some ideas blah blah blah blah now at the end of the day i've done this 25 times i never have to reach for my pen my pad open up an app it just happens i'm on the ski slope i was wearing this so when i almost died on the ski slope in the blizzard two weeks ago you would have had my final words transcribed and perfect and i also would make a mind map of jason's final thoughts and prayers you drift away

SPEAKER_19: your toes speaking only drift away yeah i'm sure that's the image so that's for their i want of course no no but keep this on you in case you die in case you die you have your plot no but it's so

SPEAKER_25: helpful for me and they make one that mag saves on the back of your device as well yeah everybody should try this i've been using it for months i'm obsessed and then they said hey we heard you're obsessed you keep talking about this on your podcast can we partner with you sponsor the podcast and i said sure go ahead here's the team who does partnerships where can people get more

SPEAKER_29: information if your work depends on having conversations just like jason said interviews conducting meetings taking calls you need to get one of these plaud note pins you check it out at plaud.ai twist that's p-l-a-u-d.ai twist and if you use the code twist they're gonna give you 10

SPEAKER_32: off it's that easy it's not easy folks and you know you can clip it on i don't know if you know

SPEAKER_25: about this though you can use the clip or you can use the magnet yes so if you don't want to like damage your nice suit put it on like this and then the magnet but look at this we got two

SPEAKER_29: guests well first joining us uh from uh finn capital he's the founder and managing partner uh give it up for logan allen joining us also an investor in circle jason uh and i'm told here by the docket crypto not the community app so just keep it safe just keep it straight everybody not

SPEAKER_40: the community app circle jeremy alair's company correct the stable coin interest not the not the so

SPEAKER_25: community one i i've known him for so long i just interviewed him at davos i don't know if you caught the interview i did with him but i did an all-in interview with him and stable coins you

SPEAKER_42: were so early on that huh how's that as an investment going it has been good i mean obviously

SPEAKER_43: the company went public it's back over above 100. uh you've got more clarity on the legal framework

SPEAKER_44: right that was a big catalyst for the stock which is banks and trad fi actually being able to adopt stables we've got some noise around how stables and deposits are actually going to work together and you're seeing that play out on socials now uh vis-a-vis the clarity act and hopefully that

SPEAKER_45: comes to fruition here in the near term um albeit the country's got a lot on the plate right now so

SPEAKER_44: we're big fans of stable coin big fans of jeremy alair's and think there's a lot to come in terms of treasury money movement yield and so forth in that world when did you invest and what was your original thesis so we actually invested um fin invest from pre-seed to pre-ipo so on this one we

SPEAKER_45: got a little late to the party we were pre-ipo and then picked up some secondary and we're very aggressive about our secondary purchasing and the thesis was um back in in the post ftx uh circle was being spacked world uh and we were saying look we think stable coins are the way money will move digitally obviously we didn't have agentic uh commerce or anything along those lines but we felt

SPEAKER_44: like uh digital money was going to be important to that future as well uh but the the baseline thesis was tradfi is going to adopt this we're going to need to move money cheaper faster better everything from credit card settlements to sending wires and remittances are going to be far more efficient on these rails uh and that was our thesis and you know we we view that as as

SPEAKER_45: having uh played out but still early innings you know my thesis lon what's that look to what the

SPEAKER_25: criminals are doing do they adopt the technology and we did have that with other stable coins that were offshore i think you're talking about tether yeah i don't want to dig anybody but it was you know human trafficking allegedly some of these things a lot of that dark web stuff you hear about yes then you have the next group of people which is maybe they're discreet not illegal but they're moving money around for discreet things like wagering right so when it came on my radar it was after you know the tether truthers going wild on social media coffeezilla all this stuff tracking it was when i saw people trying to settle um you know wagering on sports or poker in this and then you start to

SPEAKER_04: know it becomes legit when people who do a lot of transactions and are actually looking at the number of basis points etc start adopting it which is what happened with venmo cash app paypal people who cared about the five percent three percent whatever you know a visa was charging people who are sensitive to

SPEAKER_52: that your gardener your handyman whatever it happens to be they're like hey can you do me a favor send it on paypal friends and family or venmo friends and right yeah so i don't have to pay fees yeah that's when you know something started to get there and stable coins have just started to hit that and i think we'll start to see when your gardener or your handyman or handy person your handy person i mean it sounds so weird that's when you know it's going to be right there and i think we're right at that moment in time let's introduce our next guest all right up next we've got eric vorhees he's

SPEAKER_29: the founder of venice ai now they've been in the news a lot recently jason uh they're an ai chat platform that doesn't log conversations no safety restrictions no censorship guardrails but also briefly they were the uh sort of default model being used by open claw open claw has since sort of gone back and now they don't want to play favorites they're they're sort of neutral switzerland but for for a short time venice ai was the default uh open claw model welcome to the program eric

SPEAKER_57: what's the vision here for what you're doing and are you one of these like libertarian privacy nuts

SPEAKER_25: who just is making a point like and i love these guys this is my favorite you know this is my favorite um what are the things between superheroes and super villains there's like the anti-hero the folks who they're sort of they're not anti-heroes but they kind of like ashoka they're not jedi they're not sith they kind of chart their own path right maverick i find the libertarians who don't want to be part of the two different parties or ashoka who doesn't want to be a jedi but use is a

SPEAKER_04: force weld wielder i feel like eric you might fall into this which is chaotic good yeah yeah i think that's

SPEAKER_71: fair but i first i'm i'm just curious how the stable coin investments are doing so well like i i must be

SPEAKER_76: doing something wrong because all of mine have stayed at a dollar hey oh hey we're talking about investing in the corporate company but you are correct they are pinned to a dollar and that's what that must be what i'm doing yeah he's going to be here three more nights take care of your

SPEAKER_80: waitresses i will say this was also very confusing to me in the early stable corner it's like what how do you get you don't make anything you're just it's a it's almost a dollar it's the idea tell me who

SPEAKER_84: you are and why you're doing what you're doing i want to like get to first principles here yeah

SPEAKER_75: i'm of the crypto world uh i am currently uh a tourist in the ai world and um i've been building

SPEAKER_71: venice for the last two years venice essentially is meant to be like a private non-censored version of chat gpt so when i started it uh realized that like the principles that i felt were important from the crypto world namely like user sovereignty the right to privacy free speech lack of censorship these were entirely absent in ai and uh realized that i should be the change that i wish to see in the

SPEAKER_88: world and so started venice how did you wind up getting so early into open club i'm curious i mean

SPEAKER_89: we're an ai company so like we pay attention and um we're an open source you know like uh we love open

SPEAKER_71: source companies and projects and so we were aware of it very early um we made a few pull requests like right when it came out uh and venice was added as a a model provider within the flow of um of setup so basically if you want your claw to run on private inference and not have like every detail about your life and business going to uh sam altman um then we were a good alternative so that's how we that's how we ended up there and we in the company we've been huge users of uh of claws and um it's been

SPEAKER_73: quite an amazing phenomenon i love that you've been covering it so much for small businesses every hire

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SPEAKER_52: and only have to meet with the best possible applicants that's where linkedin hiring pro can streamline your entire process nearly 60 of hires find a candidate to interview in their first week and hiring the wrong person not only waste a ton of your valuable time but it's going to impact morale at your company you know that they become a total drain on the entire team we spent weeks hiring a new editor for the pod rearranged and we rearranged our entire production team and they quit on the first day oh it wasn't a match we should have trusted linkedin jobs and we did and now we have a great editor who is dialed in so hire right the first time post your first job and get 100 off towards your post at linkedin.com hiring pro offer that's linkedin.com hiring pro offer terms and conditions do apply logan what do you think about this open source

SPEAKER_04: movement it you know you had so many people trying to capture the agent opportunity the co-work opportunity and then you have just coming around the bend from the outside this dark horse this open claw project and it is the one that took the crown while the king was looking down the jester stole his the warning crown like this is it right like how did this happen and what impact do you think it has

SPEAKER_45: on the marketplace as investors yeah so we we actually passed on the proprietary lms which i'll call a you know anti-portfolio at this point uh but our view was that open source was going to meaningfully catch up and close the gap around intelligence speed and price right and you've seen compression and the closing that gap um and particularly with claw as well as you know players like a gemini like a meta etc investing heavily into providing these capabilities out into the market and then you've got all of the china-based um players as well emerging and and our view is that um now you're seeing claude um and certainly open ai start to produce at the app layer they always said look we're going to be the the chassis you guys go build on top of it and we'll stick to our knitting now you're seeing them need to monetize on applications and suddenly whenever claude announces an application it you know quote unquote destroys uh you know or cook some company and i think that's obviously overborne um and our view is that the ai first companies that are producing revenue through a product um less so on the opx reduction i think that's more short-lived and and more transient i think you have to be ai first you have to be producing revenue through that product um and it has to have domain differentiation workflow and data integration in order to be sticky and to have moats

SPEAKER_99: around it otherwise you're very quickly going to get out competed yeah and the fact that small

SPEAKER_25: organizations are adopting a technology that to me is always one of my early signals when people who are tinkerers hackers diy people eric they start tinkering i take notice i get curious and then when i see startups adopt a technology i get really curious and then when both do it i become obsessed or i should say maybe the third factor is when i start tinkering i get obsessed those three circles have now happened for me so eric how do you think about open claw this open source project and then also crypto and privacy how is this all going to come together and what are your circles when you are evaluating

SPEAKER_103: something might break out your early signaling your gut like these tools are obviously so powerful

SPEAKER_89: they are they are magical in many ways and yet people have been led into this paradigm where like

SPEAKER_71: everything they think and do is being absorbed into several central repositories where it will live forever uh that to me is just so obviously dangerous and i find it kind of ironic that uh many of these frontier labs when they say they care so much about ai safety um are kind of missing like the most near and present danger which is the you know mass surveillance of all humanity to me that seems like

SPEAKER_105: a danger and so uh yeah i'm glad that there are alternatives all right i am shocked right now you're

SPEAKER_13: telling me that these entrepreneurs running the largest and fastest growing startups in history are saying one thing but doing another the thing they're saying is they care about safety but then they are doing things that are not safe and that are the basic blocking and tackling which is there's no need to take my queries and ingest them into your learning system if i don't want that and i certainly don't want you keeping my history and giving it to the police you could easily have a button or a checkbox uh logan that makes this very easy for consumers to not be involved and there are in fact companies like brave like duck duck go uh nordvpn other vpns uh open source projects like the tour project that are designed from the bottom up to be privacy first so what's your take there on

SPEAKER_110: is this a missed opportunity for for those large language models to incorporate this kind of

SPEAKER_109: thinking that eric i think so i mean i i was just learning about venice uh and coming into this discussion and i think what eric's doing is super interesting and and and obviously you know

SPEAKER_45: tim cook and microsoft and uh apple have highlighted this in terms of you know we want to maintain privacy and we want users to have control over their data um i i think you know largely privacy is is very hard to come by these days and i think we should all assume our data is everywhere but um i do think first principles wise building with that in mind jason is is absolutely

SPEAKER_44: right um particularly if you're going to touch end consumers we're more enterprise driven um and so we're looking at companies that are helping encrypt manage pii um obviously manage users use of ai our view is that this crossing the chasm moment for the enterprise and adoption of ai actually is going to be driven predominantly by cyber security um and so we announced an investment recently with ashton and sound ventures in witness ai which is focusing on how do employees use ai in terms of

SPEAKER_45: tools we give them but also employees get bringing ai to work um everybody would talk about you know

SPEAKER_44: bring your device to work type type dynamics now people are bringing their own ai to work and that has huge implications for what proprietary data is being added what documents are getting added and so forth and until you can control that experience in the enterprise you're going to continue uh to to

SPEAKER_29: have meaningful lack of adoption uh eric i want to i want to jump in here and ask you about your you have a token venice ai has a token uh dollar sign vvv uh so uh explain to us like how the token interacts with the ai product and like how how people are using the token sort of as credits on venice ai

SPEAKER_71: i'm a crypto guy so of course there's going to be a token involved naturally uh in our case uh in our case the token allows you to get access to the api for free so basically if you want if you're a human or an agent and you want marginally free inference like free at the margin where you're not paying per call um you can you can hold the token for that so it's the different pricing model um and uh we think like

SPEAKER_105: whenever you can reduce friction you find interesting new use cases and so that was the that was the

SPEAKER_29: impetus behind it and there's there's some degree of like volatility like i'm reading here from our notes like after it was made the designated model for open clock your token surged 35 so are you is that are you keeping that in mind as you guys are running this ai company like what what what's the

SPEAKER_35: price on the token and how that's is that impacting decision making day to day being in crypto since

SPEAKER_71: 2011 like uh if i cared too much about the price movements i probably would have like had to shoot myself yeah fair enough um you gotta like you know keep a little keep a little distance and not get distracted by the noise and there's a lot of noise um ultimately what we're trying to do is like build a super useful platform for humans and agents to interact with all the leading ai models in a more

SPEAKER_105: private way um the token needs to be able to support and uh make that mission more feasible and is it

SPEAKER_103: using the infrastructure of bit tensor i'm not sure if you mentioned that but this bit tensor and tau

SPEAKER_04: projects i think are super fascinating i don't know if you guys are keeping up on them but uh i invested and and helped co-found this um fund that uh mark jeffrey uh mark jeffrey's is running uh mark jeffrey is running that uh is exploring all these subnets and the idea is to do distributed computing and provide you know an llm or resources or storage whatever it happens to be and then have a flywheel uh way to make money almost like i think it's kind of like the next bitcoin in this way because it has an

SPEAKER_95: application tied to it have you been following it at all are uh yeah i'm generally familiar with with

SPEAKER_71: bit tensor we don't have anything to do with bit tensor um we are not a decentralized protocol we are a centralized company that offers inference uh both api and app for for normal humans um so yeah like our our token is meant to enable people to uh to access inference for free and uh if that is appealing

SPEAKER_110: to you then it's worth looking at okay explain the economics of how tokens for free because you had me

SPEAKER_32: we had my attention at free we've got a brand new partner here at twist and as fate would have it we

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SPEAKER_71: stoked it's an amazing company um yeah basically we have a subtoken called dm dms are created out of vvv and dms each one that you have gives you one dollar per day of credit so it's like a renewing resource you can think of it like a perpetuity so you can value dm as a perpetuity on on uh inference and um if you hold these you get a dollar per per day of credit in the in the web or the api um and uh bennis is willing to offer that even though it's a pure liability to us because we can control the supply of those so you can think of it um you can think of it as like a mechanism that we we can influence and we can uh constrain but anyone that has these things it's very valuable to them and it's been

SPEAKER_103: interesting to see like how the world thinks such a thing should be priced that's fascinating i have um hit a wall uh or a big challenge which is we were trending towards with our open clause about 500

SPEAKER_08: a day uh in tokens this is somewhat my fault i apologize i've been teaching gaff a lot about

SPEAKER_103: youtube descriptions yeah and it it because it wants to please you open claw uh logan it will not use the

SPEAKER_04: most efficient query it will do more than it's asked of uh and then we got kimmy up and running on my mac studio and we have one in the cloud and we're starting to play with that but it's not very good at complex tasks sometimes it you know bottoms out but it does some things very well so like and that's what we're trying to figure out is when to route it we may start intelligently routing things saying this is a kimmy task this is a claude task by putting like a a keyword at the end of a sentence like use kimmy or use kkk oh don't use that use k i am i think a different one use

SPEAKER_141: like some triple letter bvv but that one doesn't work i you know that one doesn't work let's keep

SPEAKER_04: that one off the table uh but i i think that might be the future is trying to intelligently route jobs um but i'm super fascinated about any way to get these costs down while we wait for the next step function down but i am living logan in jevin's paradox now because i couldn't get anybody to use our enterprise chat gpt that we're like barely using it then i get open claw and i'm pointing it to our claude opus and i can't get people to stop using it this is like a very strange thing as a business owner it was trending to beating and being more than our payroll wow over to you

SPEAKER_144: looking i'm not sure what that says about what you pay people but we'll leave that as i mean market

SPEAKER_45: market yeah exactly um i think so for us as as we've shared on on past shows we built a platform called lighthouse.ai and and that has been our operating system and i think as we all know the tools for gps generally in the market are great um and so you kind of have to build it and now the experimentation with open claw we use claude as a firm uh universally it's pretty incredible and there's been some posts on x um and i saw alexis ohinian retweet this this morning and i totally agree with this which is um the future of venture firms is very senior it's almost like the old school benchmark model right a bunch of very senior partners who have deep relationships and can really manage through and then a huge hundreds of agents that you're that you're operating and those are looking for stealth founders those are monitoring your current portfolio from a financial metric um and team growth etc perspective those are looking at new themes doing deep research etc like there's just so many permutations of that and so i just think venture firms are going to continue to get leaner um and probably more effective overall and we built a gen ai model we call founder dna score which was a mix

SPEAKER_44: of research i'd done at stanford with ilia strublev and it's so highly predictive now of early stage founders in the model we built the back testing we've done um that we've come to really rely on it from an investment committee perspective particularly in our early stage deals obviously less signal as the companies get mature for more of the late stage work we do um but we're really excited to have been adopting ai since 2018 when it was back in predictive and we named ahead of ai in 2021 and now you're seeing i think you know largely every vcmp firm name ahead

SPEAKER_04: of ai but i'd like to think we were one of the first what is in that formula uh what are the variables and how are they weighted i'm assuming this is like open research at stanford uh it's it was so

SPEAKER_45: ilia strublev who wrote the venture mindset um is um now more well known for that book but back then he was doing research and highly recommend following him on linkedin um he puts out a lot of studies on is there a correlation between where you went to school where you're building uh the degrees you had and so forth so we actually use about 40 weighted criteria and we've adjusted those weights using gen ai and putting more and more data through that which is by the way where a huge amount of our expense comes from and just training this model and then deploying these agents and um i would say for us the big factors are um repeat founder um average average age of our ceos is 45 um if you were a repeat founder

SPEAKER_155: were you ceo how long were you ceo ah whoa that's an interesting one i've never heard yeah so did you

SPEAKER_04: stay in the ceo slot is predictive of future success it is yes so not highly removed is another way of saying

SPEAKER_45: it yes yeah did you stay in the slot i mean if you if you stayed in the spa in the seat and then handed the baton to somebody to take it public or you know you transitioned to another role there might be some signal there but generally speaking if you were in the ceo seat and you exited and this is the other big one right what was your track record on the exit and there's actually you would think that the best ceos are the ones that had the biggest prior outcomes it actually just the fact that you had an exit whatsoever is highly predictive of future success and the ones that had smaller exits or were aqua hired who are still hungry and want to build for more and have more to prove are actually more successful in our models um in the future and so um we've done a lot of this work um historically and continue to run data sets like y combinator um cb insights stack ranks you know fintechs and crypto companies and software companies and we run all that data through and then we do back testing on our own founders we've also integrated personality tests um which i think is really interesting and you can get ai driven personalities uh archetypes now off of just public data so how

SPEAKER_102: are they jay right exactly intj every ceo eric wants to be entj it's not the only model there's intj as

SPEAKER_103: well you got the jacks you got the um sergeys the the larrys or intjs and you know some people bill gates steve jobs more entj they're more a little bit more extroverted in um their approach

SPEAKER_04: one thing i wanted to get your uh both of your takes on is what happened with anthropics revenue ramp this is unbelievable a bunch of information leaked lon give it to us this leaked tweet yeah well

SPEAKER_29: bloomberg uh it's from a bloomberg article that was published on tuesday and then a lot of people are now tweeting about it anthropic on track to generate annual revenue of almost 20 billion uh that's a projection based on their current performance more than doubling their run rate from just late last year uh they recently surpassed 19 billion in run rate revenue up from 9 billion at the end of 2025 and roughly 14 billion just a few weeks ago jason that's uh it's it's a it's a sign of how strong the adoption has been for toting tools like claude code uh and the other anthropic projects and it's also a sign that maybe this pentagon deal is sort of fueling growth in from the public absolutely

SPEAKER_04: any any public battle for an emerging technology company drives uh consumer adoption business adoption i think there's two things mixed in here eric open claw and uh the battle with um

SPEAKER_103: the government and then there's you know some number of folks who are like why are we even supporting why should we support um what's going on with um open ai versus anthropic we should go

SPEAKER_164: with the the peacenik one the one that doesn't want to create murder bots what's your take on that whole beef back and forth and then logan i'll go to you in terms of the revenue ramp

SPEAKER_166: i mean first the revenue ramp clearly happened before the controversy so it'll be curious

SPEAKER_71: they're interesting to see what happens after it um i wonder if the incredible growth of that revenue is what gave dario uh a little more confidence in taking the position that he took um personally i found it um i found it brave uh it's very rare that any company is is willing to do anything against what the federal government says um like i've come from a world where we continually battle regulatory agencies and uh it's a it's a total nightmare and uh most companies just comply they just comply easier to bend the knee you always you always bend the knee your shareholders want you to bend the knee like you always comply with the government because the government's right and that's how the order works and it's a bunch of bullshit and so whenever anyone is willing to stand up to it um it's it's inspiring frankly so i i like seeing that and um i i'm curious like what effect it'll actually have on

SPEAKER_103: on their business you know good or bad see eric this is such a good insight because if dario had

SPEAKER_04: shown up for all those trump ceo meetings if dario had given five million dollars to the trump pack if like the like i think greg did i'm trying to make sure i got it right greg brockman gave five million to trump's thing uh usually unpopular i'm sure inside of open ai to do that um even tim cook went and gave a goal bar and came to the melania uh screening which i think was more painful probably you know you have to play the game on the field is the common thinking and i heard logan on cnbc or fox news one of the two an investor in anthropic said hey listen dario's got to play ball like you have to win the deal play the game on the field i think this is a lesson for him as ceo your take logan on taking a principled stance and winning the crowd right when the when the crowd win your freedom gladiator style he got the he got the crowd to use the product they became number one in the app store

SPEAKER_14: versus bend the knee where do you stand on this logan it might seem like your startup can save some

SPEAKER_174: money by using a cheap tool for your device management and security but you'll eventually end up paying

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SPEAKER_109: iru.com twist that's eroo.com twist i think um some of the the thinking behind uh the negotiation was a little flawed in the sense that if you're going to work with the military you know and and they're out

SPEAKER_45: killing bad guys you probably have to accept that your product's going to be used to go kill bad guys so like going into that and saying well actually you know we want to use you to use it in the following ways is a bit odd um i think keith uh on x use the analogy of that's like giving you know the department of war a mac and telling them how to how they have to use it right i i think that that was a little short-sighted in that regard they could have been um probably more balanced um but yeah short-term upswing and i think it goes back to the productization of these apps on top of claude claude code being number one for them i read somewhere that that's about 2.5 billion of the

SPEAKER_44: current revenue right so claude coast the fastest growing product but every new product and app that they they spin up is is generating stickiness and it's because of their enterprise first orientation

SPEAKER_45: and that enterprise those enterprise relationships um are over 80 percent of their revenue today um from the numbers we've seen and open ai that number is less than five percent right and so i think all those things are incredibly valuable and then we talked about it earlier which is the usage-based pricing model right going to value-based pricing is such a huge aspect of the asymmetric growth

SPEAKER_44: um but it's been uh astonishing but i think well deserved overall i got to push back on logan a

SPEAKER_171: little bit here do it yeah this is an important debate yeah i mean anthropic wasn't uh trying to

SPEAKER_71: tell the military how they can go kill bad guys that's a bit disingenuous they had two prerequisites two uh terms in their terms of use that were relevant here one was that they did not want their technology used um for autonomous weapons meaning weapons where there was no human in the loop murder box yeah call them what you want like um economist weapons uh because they don't know that their technology is safe enough to use in that kind of capacity yet i think that's an eminently responsible way to treat things um and two their other requirement was uh you can't use it on wholesale surveillance of americans um basically all they're saying is like we want you to abide by the fourth amendment uh that was not acceptable to the military and so the military uh not only is like canceling the contract but um vilifying them and uh saying that other companies are not allowed to work with them either it's that latter part i think that was quite gross if the military doesn't want to work with them on those terms that's perfectly fine but um i think it's a

SPEAKER_102: good nuance eric you're you're 100 correct that the framing was as a provider of technology

SPEAKER_25: technology this is new technology these are not batteries that have been around for 50 years and we know the circumstance into which they overheat and you shouldn't have them you know under the

SPEAKER_04: airplane in storage and you should follow these precautions with an electric car this was hey we've invented this new battery this new computer and we as the creators of it don't believe it's ready for prime time we believe that it will accidentally murder someone second hey we live in the united

SPEAKER_25: states we hear about the fourth amendment we don't want this being used internally in the united states to create a mass surveillance state because this technology can do something that the camera at the 7-eleven can't do because it doesn't have a brain and it's not connected to every other camera on planet

SPEAKER_04: earth there's something between i think your two positions which a reasonable group i think you're

SPEAKER_13: both right and a reasonable administration um would have said let's handle this behind closed doors but instead this is a performative uh group of individuals and their core belief inside this

SPEAKER_04: administration is to never apologize never be reasonable in fact attack attack attack so when somebody doesn't get an alignment line correct me if i'm wrong the operating system of trump as outlined

SPEAKER_25: in his that movie about him the documentary was you're supposed to attack yes and dario is the one internet ceo of that scale company i believe perhaps the only one that has not bent the knee yeah i think

SPEAKER_29: i think a lot of it actually comes down to approach and tone more than the actual lines in the deal or the contract i don't know if you guys saw uh washington post quoted uh a pentagon official has said they they proposed to dario during this meeting uh a hypothetical they said would anthropic let the military use claude to shoot down a nuclear armed intercontinental ballistic missile aimed at the u.s and uh apparently according to this pentagon source dario's answer was well you could call us and we'd work it out which they did not like so to me it feels like if that answer had been 10 percent more political we might not be in this situation right logan in all honesty there was only one answer to

SPEAKER_00: would you save american lives from a nuclear holocaust the answer is yes give it a shot yeah absolutely that would that was a self-fail or he could have said just if that's technology you want to work on

SPEAKER_04: i think we should sit down and actually build it for you because we want to make sure it works when it does happen because we all don't want to die in a fiery nuclear ball but what do you think logan if you were an investor in the company and dario said what could i do better i think dario has tended to

SPEAKER_195: politicize this a bit and has set a little bit of a trap for himself which is we want ai to be safe

SPEAKER_45: i'm concerned about what ai is doing to society uh and it's going to eliminate jobs and all these things and he's kind of talking against his book in order to support his book in some ways and he got caught in a little bit of a trap here in the sense that he tried to politicize in a conversation where frankly um you know as you said these guys are are not going to stand for that and they're going to then showcase why they're right and they're going to thump you know pound their chests and i think he walked right into that unfortunately to the detriment of the company from a long-term

SPEAKER_50: perspective because as palantir has demonstrated the government could be their largest customer

SPEAKER_102: eric you want to um give us your final thought on this and lon i'm gonna let i see lon is

SPEAKER_190: i see the steam coming out there yeah i think you have one thing you want to answer so eric

SPEAKER_202: then lon and then we'll move on to our next topic this is a fascinating one yeah i'll i'll just say

SPEAKER_71: that the whole thing is interesting i think there's going to be more of these conversations and i i'm curious um i'm curious what anthropic would have done if kamala was in charge um i'm not confident i'm not confident that they would have had the same resistance if their people were running with things um so i don't know that it's a matter of principle on which this was done maybe hopefully but um in any case it's it's refreshing to see business leaders stand up to the federal government in any capacity ever i think the the united states needs much more of that one of the great things

SPEAKER_04: about america is that we can have major debates and still come together as americans in good faith it's one of the things that's been lost in our current political climate where these two sides never think hey maybe we could go have dinner together as rivals uh enjoy a nice steak and then

SPEAKER_13: uh you know smoke a cigar have a scotch debate it all and then come to what's in the best interest

SPEAKER_208: of all americans yeah i think we kind of had esprit de corps is over there was this moment like i feel

SPEAKER_29: like that was joe biden's sort of 2020 pitch was like hey folks let's let's stop all the all the fighting let's come together let's all be records and and and we we just we've now fully rejected that we're like no we didn't we didn't actually want that we don't like that we like we like donald trump's uh winner take all style and i think america's are turned away from that and it's a little bit of a shame should anthropic be forced to comply when choosing to save the us that's an

SPEAKER_04: interesting question i don't think that they should be forced to comply unless we're under attack in which case the war powers thing comes in and you know if you're ford you're making tanks now not

SPEAKER_08: model t right it's just the way it is yes i mean that that is sort of a very classic american idea

SPEAKER_216: forced to comply this isn't soviet russia except after pearl harbor or well hitler invades paris

SPEAKER_29: or poland fair enough should we should we take a look at this polly market jason oh i love a good speaking speaking of things i don't think we should do uh probably market is asking a will the ceo of anthropic dario amaday be arrested uh only five percent chance uh so the smart money

SPEAKER_41: apparently still on not being arrested for saying the government can't use his technology to make kill bots or spy on all of us i know we have some demos in the wings you want to see we got some we

SPEAKER_222: got two demos you want to take a look at these oh logan does because logan and i want to play some bets all right that's what we do for a living we're bringing up yum skis we like to play as

SPEAKER_29: bets logan and if you got something good we're in who knows we've got two eager founders first up we're going to bring up david kaufman he's the founder of sightline this is a launch port code jason so you did already oh you've already thrown a little a little cash i got my slice part of uh lf4 uh sightline tracks agent behavior on websites it's sort of like google analytics for your agents uh so david

SPEAKER_228: welcome to the program yeah thanks guys happy to be here david show us what you're working on yeah of course as mentioned we're your sightline we are an analytics tool focused on agent visits coming

SPEAKER_232: to your site and how to capitalize these what they're doing where they're getting blocked as you all know people are searching more with agent agents themselves or in agentic ways chat gvt um obviously it does searches and query fanouts but oftentimes we'll go visit sites in real time um and the reality is most websites are just not prepared for the agentic web um they've set up fancy ui that you know is nice for humans but oftentimes will get in the way and so these agents get blocked they get confused maybe they're spinning up and trying to look at screenshots but the reality is most people don't even see this traffic because a lot of them run server-side only and so they won't show up in traditional analytics tool and so our goal is to give people visibility on the agents that are coming to their site um and then figure out how to capitalize on it figure out what they're looking for what they're interested in um right now a lot of what agents are doing is reporting back to the humans that delegated them but we feel that over time this will shift and become more and more autonomous uh and they'll start taking action they'll submit demo requests they'll start doing bookings there's agentic commerce in the wings and so we want businesses to be prepared for this new customer source um and be able to you know present themselves in the best light and and drive growth from it

SPEAKER_222: logan your honest opinion as an investor yeah so where who is the icp here like who are you

SPEAKER_45: finding that you're selling into predominantly and how what channels are you using yeah so at the

SPEAKER_232: moment a lot of icp it's mostly sas companies and oftentimes a more technical profile so we work with some authentication tools b2b sas really this is because they their customers so procurement internally for example are already adopting agentic search in a lot of ways um so when you're evaluating which options for your company it's more than just google it's you know customized as far as what is your tech stack what are your requirements what you've been doing in the past and uh we found that resonates the best just because their customers are already there and they're a bit more ambitious and ahead of the game i'm thinking about this new paradigm because it is fairly new as far as doing

SPEAKER_240: growth marketing uh not only for humans but also for agents super interesting yeah i was i was reading um

SPEAKER_109: the other day that a massive part of meta's um revenue these days is ai monetization driven and

SPEAKER_44: they're at a 60 plus billion dollar run rate on revenue as a result and it feels like you know how do i understand my reputation how do i understand the analytics from that growth marketing is is incredibly important particularly as you as you grow monetization there is that is that kind of what you

SPEAKER_232: guys are finding yeah and i think one unique challenge to this new world is that the attribution question is even tougher and there's a lot of seo geo tools out there that kind of say like hey are you on chatubt are you paying an answer but it's really hard to track that fully through um let's say the purchase funnel uh because often there's people that are using chatubt to do research procurement but then the ultimate last step is to come in and navigate with google and still come through that way so we're trying to get a good feel on what parts of your site are being visited there's different types of agents too some that are directly triggered by humans and then you can do the whole funnel from i'm being ingested i'm being cited as an answer i'm being mentioned in the answer and then finally

SPEAKER_240: humans come on through and i can actually you know tie this back to new customers or orders or or what have

SPEAKER_44: you that's awesome yeah i mean agentic search and agentic uh commerce are the future so having analytics around that makes a ton of sense i really like what you're building yeah this is fantastic i

SPEAKER_71: um i've already sent it to my um to my claw actually to implement in venice uh we absolutely need this so um yeah we've already ingested it what do you guys think of eric i don't know if you've

SPEAKER_110: seen this but um our friends over at cloudflare um and i and i talked to the ceo when i was in davos about it they have a really interesting concept which is paper crawl if you want to come in instead of just robots txt so eric and david and logan will go in that order what do you think of the

SPEAKER_252: paper crawl concept obvious and inevitable that's very smart david your thoughts on the paper crawl

SPEAKER_232: i'm sure you're watching cloudflare's yeah watching cloudflare closely on this and actually we integrate with cloudflare in order to see uh the visits i think it makes sense from um you know a publisher standpoint an author standpoint someone that needs to capitalize and monetize their ip from a business standpoint you know it's kind of the opposite they're telling us we want to encourage as many bots visits as possible we'll even pay to have more of them um because they want as much exposure as as they can and they wanted to be ingested they want to be recommended etc so i think it depends on the context uh obviously if you're a journalist um i think there's some upside there on protecting the ip and what you're producing but from a business standpoint

SPEAKER_44: they kind of want to open the floodgates and i i prefer more conversion orientation to like you know we're seeing agentic in the checkout now right so pay for crawl i think you're going to have at different um levels of that so you know did you land on the page how did you interact how long did

SPEAKER_45: you spend and it feels like at least with sightline david correct me wrong you're trying to build is attribution and kind of removing the black box orientation around that so people can actually

SPEAKER_103: monetize against those types of metrics i got a really simple solution here lon what's that what if i could set my crawl to be this website is crawlable however you damn please for 500 a year

SPEAKER_04: there you go put in your credit card do what you will and if you were a sub stack and you had a thousand people or even a hundred people pay 500 it could be material this could just be a very simple solution i know this because microsoft went to harper business which produced angel the book.com my book and they said would you accept to me um 2500 my agent called

SPEAKER_110: 2500 for the next five years or something 500 a year to put it into whatever microsoft is up to

SPEAKER_04: with you know having a book in there and i was like if you sure and are there 10 other people

SPEAKER_13: who would pay 2500 this is inspiring to write another book because it's two swings at batlon one i'm included in the crawl and maybe even featured so it gets me prominence right two if they link to the upsell great and if i got a little uh revenue stream coming in here maybe it's time for

SPEAKER_29: two more books yeah i think it makes a lot of sense i mean there are a lot of these platforms and and and companies and even authors or media sites where they feel like their data is the value of the company and if they sell it at any price and just let everybody crawl their stuff like that's why reddit i feel like is so hostile to all of our agents because the meat that's on reddit is that's what makes it valuable and if we can all just crawl it unlimited but for a lot of different kinds of

SPEAKER_13: resources i think that makes total sense for uh david i'm gonna be hosting launch festival again launch festival is a conference i created because lon i couldn't afford to come to conferences as a founder and they wanted me to pay twenty thousand dollars to demo back in the day to show my product i couldn't afford that either so i said if i ever make it i'm going to create launch festival it was originally called tech ranch 50 and then mike and i broke up i went to do launch fest i'm starting it up again monday the 16th and 17th of march two weeks 400 seats it's uh like 50 investors 250 founders and i have 50 seats for sale for people who want to come to lunch thousand bucks and that

SPEAKER_04: underwrites the founders who are coming and uh logan i would love if you would come are you going to be

SPEAKER_261: in san francisco are you in the bay area i am going to be in i was just going to say i'm in town so i

SPEAKER_103: would love can i can i get you to judge a panel with me and give some feedback to founders that'd be fantastic looking forward to it i appreciate you i appreciate you uh for doing that i know time is limited and if anybody wants to go open claw at launch.co if you want to be involved or just on the website you can um do a bunch of um you can figure out it's free for founders by the way the way i do

SPEAKER_25: it logan this is my brilliant move it's 20 bucks for a founder to reserve their seat when they pick up their badge we give them the 20 bucks back then we don't have you know drive-bys it just creates a

David Friedberg: just enough friction david are you coming are you in the bay area i'd love to uh okay currently in

SPEAKER_263: telluride but uh oh telluride yeah great skiing first time here ever tell you the story when i

SPEAKER_265: almost died going to telluride this is i almost went on the do not fly list wow this is before i had kids

SPEAKER_25: i'm on a little puddle jumper from los angeles pull up the telluride airport video landing there

SPEAKER_04: it's most dangerous airport in america you can find it on youtube to my team telluride airport dangerous this thing is on the telluride airport david you've flown into it yeah

David Friedberg: flown to montrose but yeah i'm familiar yeah this is the worst possible airport you ever go to it's

SPEAKER_04: it's on a um it's in a box canyon type situation and um when you land at this thing it's got a runway that goes up and down why because it's so short you want to slow down it's also windswept and i'm coming in on this in a prop plane but it's a commercial but one of those small like eagle kind of regional jets and as you can see this is like um a little peninsula type

SPEAKER_13: situation on three sides is a cliff we come in there's crosswinds the plane goes sideways down the runway i think if this thing hits the tires hit we're flipping and rolling we're dead we miss the runway lawn entirely we miss it it's like a sideways and so but he's already powered down the plane so we fly off the end of the runway we haven't touched it and we start falling down into the town of telluride he powers the thing up this plane starts shaking like crazy we finally go back up in the air um and i kid you not um we go back up the guy says on the thing the plane is bouncing around he's says i'm going to try one more time yeah everybody on the plane goes crazy i tell the flight attendant i was like listen you try this again the pilot's going to get beat up by all these passengers they say hey we're going to durango all of a sudden 10 minutes later we're going to land in durango we go to durango my wife's like did you threaten them i said no no i just warned them like listen you're going to have a mutiny here we land two police officers get in they block the aisle they let the um

SPEAKER_265: they let them the pilots off the plane who don't make contact with the passengers right they leave boom they're gone they don't want to confront the passengers and then i'm like oh my god we're

SPEAKER_278: gonna get arrested i'm gonna get it yeah you threatened to mute they just let everybody off

SPEAKER_265: we had to drive an hour and a half in but david please for the love of god you promise me you'll never go into that airport because i'm an investor in the cap table here and i need returns we need dpi

SPEAKER_280: right logan this is we need dpi he man risk and dpi yes both are important um the only only

SPEAKER_45: worst i've flown into that airport didn't have as bad of an experience only worse landing in the entire world in my opinion of st bart's um and that is spicy yeah and by the way the plane is like

SPEAKER_283: 30 years older than whatever you were in is that the one where it goes right over the beach and

SPEAKER_56: like it's like terrifying yeah i think i've seen oh my god you have to nose dive in yeah it's basically

SPEAKER_25: what it is i know a lot of billionaires who go there and i had one billionaire who be you know company goes public this 20 years ago it makes a bunch of money he's a cowboy he's

SPEAKER_04: a pilot all this kind of nonsense here you go and he starts talking about like this landing and how intense it is and he says yeah you know my new plan is i was talking to my friend in the cia who's now on my security and they are able to open the doors on a g650 and you can parachute out they figured out

SPEAKER_13: how to do this on a private plane and they slow down and so i'm gonna start skydiving to my uh to my christmas vacation oh my god and i said to him never hey buddy i know that you're a billionaire now i know you have unlimited resources let me tell you about eagle computer and toxic wealth eagle computer goes public in the 80s on the way to the ipo party the guy who's the ceo buys a ferrari he flips it kills himself in the cfo i believe tragically wow and now they sit everybody down you can look up eagle computer on wikipedia and the ceo dying and ever since then in silicon valley they sit people down when they make their money they say we know you can buy all the toys

SPEAKER_29: now toxic wealth don't kill yourself you got kids yeah i died in an auto crash hours after his company offered stock to the public for the first time making him a multi-millionaire he was only 39.

SPEAKER_294: do you guys know this story i'd never anybody i'd never heard i'd never heard of you heard this

SPEAKER_50: one logan eric i've heard that story because i grew up in the valley in the 90s um and there are

SPEAKER_45: other unfortunate examples about it as a result like gps depending on the lp base you have will literally have key man clauses that prevent you from doing things like an nba contract you can't skydive you can't go pick up play pickup basketball you know gps have similar albeit you know uh for different reasons can't get on a helicopter can't go skydiving can't do any of these things no scuba risk averse scuba is not for you yeah uh so i i agree with it i'm highly risk averse um pickleball

SPEAKER_25: is about as extreme as it gets for me some twisted ankles in that game all right uh david this is great what uh you're in launch fund four um i don't i don't what did i do did i put in like

SPEAKER_173: a little 25 125k check what did i do i can't remember uh 125 with full launch yeah oh okay great i need to get in on this maybe we need to do another round but me and you and logan can take

SPEAKER_29: this offline all right let's drop david off great job thanks david great job we've got one more demo we got to welcome george pickett he's the founder of open claw studio they make open claw user friendly for non-technical users we've heard from a few of these kinds of concepts open clock can be as i've recently experienced very intimidating when you're brand new if you are non-technical uh and so open close studio one of these projects is kind of easing people in getting them started with agents without having to do all of the complex setup he was also a core maintainer of open claw met peter steinberger self-taught programmer who helped bring us open claw in the first place so thank you george

SPEAKER_305: and welcome to the program awesome thanks for having me and great to meet you the world's greatest

SPEAKER_306: moderator right now it's not for me to say but it's for george to say it is for george to say thank

SPEAKER_110: you george um show us what you built sure thing so what one difference with what i'm building here

SPEAKER_310: is that in its current iteration you actually have to have open claw installed on your computer so this is for people who already have open claw um basically you can run uh you can run npx open claw studio with your existing open class setup and you get a really nice ui to view your open claw we're turning it into a sas product i'm working with another one of the contributors from uh open claw and yeah basically the the idea here is that this platform provides uh guardrails it's opinionated and it does some version control behind the scenes um but basically yeah my my thesis is that these all all the benefits of ai agents have been accumulating to to technical people and software engineers so i want to make it really easy to chat with your agents and have some controls around them

SPEAKER_13: very nice so uh explain to us what we're seeing here this is the interface we're seeing you've got

SPEAKER_04: 10 agents bill nye sf events open claw use cases latest ai news growth engine youtube channel uh all these

SPEAKER_17: things that uh might be interesting now they're all agents each one of those is an agent running on open claw

SPEAKER_314: yeah exactly so each of these is a separate agent usually this would be like a separate telegram chat

SPEAKER_310: for any individual agent but what you can do here is each of these has their own separated memory you can have um different tools enabled different permissions enabled and so in the yeah like i i tend to have uh different different projects and inside of different agents i scope them like that and inside of the settings here you can set up the capabilities so you can make it you can kind of control the permissions like when it when it's gonna ask for your approval or not um you can configure skills on an agent by agent basis you can set up cron jobs um and like a pretty nice little ui here so instead of chatting with your agent and telling it hey every morning at 7 a.m remind me to do this or whatever you want you're repeating i call it timed automation you can kind of set it up in a really nice

SPEAKER_316: easy to use kind of like more understandable way so this is like this is like wix wix for open claw

SPEAKER_45: right george you're making it easier for all of us non-techies um non-coders to to build i guess where's the where's the uh use case for our being polymarket because that would be like my first that

SPEAKER_173: would be my first yes polymarket sharp i was just thinking the same thing because you know logan um so many people are doing repetitive work that if you did the polymarket sharp and you said to me we have one agent doing this and all we do is focus on the polymarket sharp um i'd be like that's worth 99 for me to throw into my you know uh agent cluster so many different ways to win here but yeah

SPEAKER_316: if i gave you my polymarket strategy uh you know you guys would be taking my arbitrage so i'm not going

SPEAKER_04: to give you that but your youtube optimization you might be okay with what do you think of you know all the work that has to be done on an open source project to make it more accessible

SPEAKER_89: uh well yeah it's cool this to see this george good to meet you i i actually had already come across this project and i had literally told my my claw to install it and set it up the claw failed and i hadn't been able to use it but i don't know well the the claw has failed in many

SPEAKER_71: ways so i have to they do that sometimes i have to have a stern talk with it um later this afternoon but uh yeah cool cool to see this uh this demoed um obviously useful i mean like multi-agent orchestration orchestration is the whole point and value of of these softwares uh to make it a

SPEAKER_105: little bit easier or you know materially easier here i think to give you some visualization on the agents and to personify them a bit very smart um and uh i'm now renewed with the initiative to make sure the claw will get this thing installed so i can try it totally yeah and i mean the way i see

SPEAKER_310: it going is that you probably have in the tens of millions of engineers who are using agents i think in the next two years we're going to see probably a billion people on earth using agents but i really don't think it's going to be whatsapp telegram it's going to be some kind of interface and i think if the answer if the answer was perplexity computer or clog co-work you would see an explosion of hype but no one is using co-work no one is using perplexity computer they're confusing they're coming from this way of interacting with agents from this really developer mindset you know they're showing you tool calls i do in the current version allow you to see tool calls just because i'm a nerd and i like to see like okay what's it what's it actually doing but in the sas version of this we're gonna we're getting rid of tool calls thinking traces um we have a a really cool continual learning angle where it's gonna be learning more about you and retraining um which i'm really excited about i'm working with someone else who's a core contributor of open claw who so far doesn't want to be named but he's just an awesome awesome uh back-end devops guy and is has some really cool ideas around this

SPEAKER_17: continual learning so george is this a uh is this a startup or are you doing an open source project

SPEAKER_310: what's your aspiration here yeah totally so right now it's it's totally open source this project is just open cloth studio on github um i've been working on it for about five weeks uh 1.4 thousand stars 1.4 k stars um nice but yeah we're yeah yeah no it's it's it's been going well um mostly all through twitter and i've gone since i started working on it's gone from like 1300 followers on twitter it's almost 5k it's it's been super awesome um but yeah we're we're working on um basically a lot of these open cloth startups are you know they're wrapping the deployment for you and handling that so you don't have to deal with api keys um you know virtual machines all this stuff i think that's table stakes so there's no reason why why someone should have to work like you know deal with aws but i think combining that with a really nice ui where you don't have to think about tokens you can log in with google um just providing a really simple way and we're we're not calling it open claw the sas product it's like it's it's totally separate from the brand of open claw love it logan your best

SPEAKER_04: advice for open source projects tinkerers who want to then build a sas product and build a company what

SPEAKER_109: should they be thinking about who you're building for george is this something where you're going to

SPEAKER_45: in individual consumers and saying hey you know we want this to be open source and available to all of you are you trying to back into like a dropbox style let's go to the developers who are then going to you know be in these side of these enterprises tell everybody inside the enterprise and and we're going to back in effectively into uh enterprise sales is that kind of your mindset from an impact perspective i think having a view of who you're building for how you're going to monetize and position it and then the third piece is like you know this freemium open source model and then you know where do we go from there in terms of um the the premium models and and how do we scale this from a product

SPEAKER_318: roadmap perspective are the three things i would think about i'd say on the open source side i'm going

SPEAKER_310: to continue maintaining um open cloth studio on the open source side because number one i just find it fun to build for open source and kind of get that feedback on the target market i i have a couple uh different thesis one one is that there are a lot of people out there who are already really great with chat gpt they're good at prompting they're kind of power users that chat gpt but they're kind of too scared to go set up a virtual machine i think those people are the perfect kind of like you know uh maybe like a technical product manager to start up um some like ops person people who really get ai and are using it a lot but aren't yet using agentic ai i think that's the sweet spot um i'm giving it to my mom i set my mom up with openclaw and she's doing genealogy all kinds of random stuff so i'm i'm curious i'm curious to see people who have never used openclaw see what they do with it so the very our first like closed alpha is just giving it to just giving it to people who have never used um openclaw before and seeing what they do but yeah my prediction is that it's going to be people who are semi-technical but not programmers who are going to want something more than whatsapp or telegram um and and not have

SPEAKER_45: to deal with api keys do you think like the other part of this is just restricting what openclaw has access to right on your box and and in your files and what what apis you're you're you're integrating with it i think that's been one of the barriers to entry in in the enterprise and certainly for us like you know do we want do i want to just give it access to to you know our desktop and let it run i think

SPEAKER_44: that component would be really helpful if it's not already built in just to help people understand the

SPEAKER_310: security components of this totally that's a huge part of what we're doing in the sas like in this openclaw studio you can do anything you can in openclaw and the sas version of this it's going to be a lot more restricted it's not going to be able to do as much but you're going to it's going to be

SPEAKER_316: safe like you you kind of can't screw it up um so it'll be it proofing the data is super important

SPEAKER_45: we'd be users so i'd love to learn more thank you george we're thinking about it's like going

SPEAKER_310: from linux to mac it's like linux allows you to do anything and kind of shoot yourself in the foot the mac version it's like can't quite do as much but it's really easy to use and fun to play with so

SPEAKER_110: it's kind of how we're thinking about it well done george you're my guest at launch festival if you can join us launchfestival.com march 16th and 17th in san francisco right in the city all right

SPEAKER_04: we'll drop george off well done and lon we have a lot of nodi questions what we do everybody asks

SPEAKER_13: that's the notification gang those are the people who have notifications turned on on youtube you subscribe to the channel but you hit the bell then you go live and the nodies are the most loyal fans exactly top one percent of fans who come and ask us questions inside the live streams on x on youtube

SPEAKER_60: but youtube seems to be a good place to do it uh what does eric think of increased bitcoin exposure to

SPEAKER_29: trad fi will players like jane street win uh is doe kwan going to win their lawsuit eric go eric you

SPEAKER_04: speak for all crypto criminal unindicted legit everything in between you are the spokesperson

SPEAKER_71: crypto people love having one centralized spokesperson for all their opinions i believe dismantle um i mean the whole point the whole point of bitcoin was to take over the global financial system so you don't do that without the financial system merging with it um i'm glad to see trad fi adopting bitcoin um i don't trust all those firms uh they don't deserve all the trust but it's inevitable and uh it's a

SPEAKER_105: sign of bitcoin you know ascending to dominance so i uh ultimately like it um as for the doe kwan question i i'm not up to speed enough to answer that one he was on and i i didn't i asked him like

SPEAKER_04: three times to explain staking and i'm like i you know i i i deploy millions of dollars a year as an investor i've got lots of equities i'm deep in finance i can't understand this one more time explain it to me and he couldn't and then he got picked up on uh wow you're absolutely right he was

SPEAKER_56: on episode 1251 back in july of 2021 oh my lord you should have the twist archivist

SPEAKER_04: uh put some clips from that one out because it was a banger well let me ask you this then eric do you have any um thoughts on micro strategy you know basically buying i don't know if he's up to seven or eight percent of the of the non-dead float you know the active float you know not the satoshi wallets that have been dead since inception but what what has that done to the the game the religion

SPEAKER_71: the the project known as bitcoin in your mind he is someone who has a uh a thesis and has gone like

SPEAKER_89: full bore on it which i respect um to acquire as much bitcoin as possible is uh a very smart strategy and um i don't know all the nuances of like how the financialization of of strategy itself works but the thesis the thesis is valid the thesis i don't know logan i'm not sure that anybody i've

SPEAKER_364: really tried oh boy there's layers and layers of ways to participate in the game known as micro

SPEAKER_366: strategy your thoughts logan yeah so i'm i'm a full disclosure a holder of uh uh msty so i've enjoyed in

SPEAKER_45: the yield uh and right now just for for the for the record it is yielding 285 um and so uh not not financial advice uh but but i did play it that way um because i did not want to have direct exposure or ownership because to your points i have no clue as to how he's he's running this business and and it feels like you know uh feels a a little a little challenging a little pyramidy um so to speak in terms of how he's loading these assets and recycling the proceeds and buying more and now he's investing in these etfs and raising new etfs to to finance it so i think you know btc hold all you got it you got to be up into the right for this thing to work otherwise you're in a lot of trouble yeah it's a um

SPEAKER_04: you know a lot when i look at any startup that i've been successful in i've been able to explain the business model to my daughters whether they're 10 12 16 oh yeah uber takes 20 percent of the ride

SPEAKER_103: and they match people together and robin hood you know makes money this way and you know thumbtack makes money this way calm charges for a subscription if you need meditation software and you want to have

SPEAKER_04: a nice interface it's a great way to do it and um yeah when i can't explain it or understand it i tend to move on to something i can understand and when i see multiple layers of creative financing or community-based ebitda like new definitions these are the red flags for me we work of course at community ebitda logan a new way to understand profitability is the value it has to the community i haven't seen any other company take that on as their key metric for everybody what ai tool do

SPEAKER_29: you find absolutely indispensable which one are you using every single day that's the question

SPEAKER_45: i use claude every day um particularly for things like well two big use cases for me just in saving time and so forth one is board materials so just being able to dump board materials into claude getting a nice summary it's a great way to prep before board meetings and to at least you know see the forest for the trees and then two is data rooms um and decks from startups because we get thousands of them per week and it's like i want to make sure we're doing justice to them and as you guys all know vcs are sitting there scrolling you know doc sends and we're probably not getting as much substance out of it versus claude and then the third one which um you know i was at a dinner last night i will effectively take the list of dinner participants um who i'm going to go meet and like if i'm going to a dinner party whether it's personal or professional i'll put all their names in claude and i'll say hey i would love the bios and backgrounds on all these people and i think that the richness of the conversation and the engagement initially it feels a little creepy to them they're like whoa how did you know where i went to school and why did you do all this diligence and i'm just come up front i'm like look i put all of your names in claude before this i wanted to learn who i was meeting and i wanted to have deeper richer conversations i think that makes sense and and i actually totally resonated so i think you know there's there's the double-edged sword of of ai but but thus far i'm seeing a lot of positivity and

SPEAKER_377: and claude is is the number one tool i use eric what are you addicted to what do you use on the daily

SPEAKER_89: i mean this sounds uh i talk in my own book of course but like i i literally use venice every day

SPEAKER_71: but as a specific example um to upload pdfs of like legal contracts and and medical records like those those two things uh which prior you know you would need specialists to review and sometimes you do still want specialists for sure but to do cursory reviews and to get a gist of things um with ai is

SPEAKER_105: you know 10 seconds now and can save literally thousands of dollars um and often will give you better answers than professionals will do i think that's an incredible use case that everyone should be trying whether using that on venice or any other platform i mean that's pretty much table stakes

SPEAKER_380: feature right now yeah my job as you know lon is to stay super informed and have conversations

SPEAKER_25: obviously uh those lead to a lot of investments and one of the things i love is the grok button on threads because a lot of times i don't understand the context and then it takes you know whatever

SPEAKER_217: one to five minutes to understand what who clavicle clavicle is and what kovic i don't know clavicular

SPEAKER_32: it's spelled like clavicular i haven't heard it and gooning and looks maxing all this stuff like

SPEAKER_22: i i could wait you know a hundred days for the new york times to do the the trends officially over so we're covering it story yeah uh or i can talk to somebody to explain it to me or i just hit that

SPEAKER_04: grok button boom i'm up to speed the second thing i do and i'll just talk about use cases because i think you can use this any way you like but i had my open claw install on the mac studio a way to rip videos and i am a bookmark guy so fashion health inspirational quotes ideas for uh content here for the podcast um health all this stuff like i i have a bookmark list on tick tock i got a bookmark list on uh x i got bookmark lists on instagram and then i write my own stuff down in browser bookmarks

SPEAKER_13: i'm a bookmark guy so now what i do is i just ship the uh link to the video and my open claw downloads the video puts it into a google drive for me then puts it on a notion page for me and gives me background on it and i say you're a curator when i send you this shoe like i was looking at shoes i want to get a new pair of shoes and you know i was sending it some shoe stuff and it was like okay yeah these shoes you have crockett and jones shoes you have down your boots these are other boot brands this is the history of the boot this is why they're special i was going down the pen rabbit hole and i bought this new pen this uh zebra g 750 you know it's an eight dollar pen but it's really quite nice and i went down the pen thing and i said hey put this into my you know gadgets and things i like so now it's become like my life curator of the bookmarks and in just one zip you know like two clicks i can get it and save it for all time because then i don't have to go find it and what if like the bookmark what if that tick tock or instagram goes away i own it now i have it on my computer for all time in my memory which i would never take the time to do that second i don't

SPEAKER_04: know if you guys have a spouse or a significant other but you got a significant other eric or logan

SPEAKER_25: you have and you you watch that you stream a tv show together and then you got to find the next show

SPEAKER_04: to watch you know or the next movie to watch so i just sat there with my wife and i think i did this on gemini because it's very good for you know uh consumery stuff and um i said to my wife hey we

SPEAKER_25: really enjoyed watching this show we really enjoyed get him to the greek we like these stoner films we like these comedies we really enjoyed white lotus we really enjoyed this show give me other shows that we might like we like battlestar galactica so we were going through all the shows that we

SPEAKER_04: love to watch over the last 25 years together and it started giving us ideas back and then it has it

SPEAKER_388: in memory i mean this it's doing my bit that used to be my bit it used to be your bit but i don't i

SPEAKER_32: don't can't bother you all the time this has led to more joy in my life and this is my key thought

SPEAKER_04: what do rich people have that everybody wants you mentioned logan that you know understanding all the people at the party that's called the chief of staff chief of staff would do that for you huma uber dean would whisper into hillary clinton and bill clinton's you know ear like hey jason

SPEAKER_393: calacanis is here he donated this amount gary like gary from veep okay sure gary from veep i don't

SPEAKER_22: know that reference but anyway you got you got that uh chief of staff then you have everyone's personal driver uber then you have your second vacation home that's airbnb the chief of staff such a really interesting thing for everybody to have and the other one is executive coach so i started using my replicant to executive coach my team so i tell it um give a what did i call that

SPEAKER_13: acronym um check-in report cir so i say to my replicant and i cc somebody on my team uh do a cir for marcus while i'm talking to marcus and it says okay here's marcus's um schedule today and tomorrow here's all the emails he sent yesterday and today uh ranked by order and with a little summary of the emails and then here's all the slack conversations that he's been involved in here's his zoom meetings and his you know google calendar so it gives a snapshot then i say okay looking at your time management i can tell you these four things are not super important why don't we deprecate those and then the two things i just gave you when you complain you have no time now you swap those things in and out so an executive coach i said anytime you're looking for executive coaching run the executive coach cir so this is a skill eric that i'm going to refine over time for my team members which is you have an executive coach you have your cir use your ec cir to just manage yourself better and be a better executive and improve your skill stack so anyway those were mine just what does a rich person have that the rest of us don't those are awesome framework yeah well i'm building on yours right you the other one you said like getting through all those documents that was called an associate at a venture firm and you mentioned earlier to go full circle hey maybe the benchmark

SPEAKER_04: thing is better no assistants no analysts pairing just use your you know associate replicant to do it

SPEAKER_29: all right lon you got any before as we wrap here oh uh i mean a lot of show what we will wrap i do want to give a shout out to uh notebook lm it was one of the first ai applications that i ever got really obsessed with i still love it i still use it for research all the time and just today we we had this in the news we didn't get to it they've added video overviews so you know you could put documents

SPEAKER_41: into notebook element it'll make a podcast for you now it'll make an immersive video presentation

SPEAKER_25: for you based on your documents you know what this is great for your kids so uh i have been working

SPEAKER_04: on this when i i have a um bulldog uh minty the bulldog that i tell stories to my 10 year olds for the last two years and i will come up with ideas for minty the bulldog stories uh he's a superhero

SPEAKER_103: bulldog and just you know for me to be able to visualize it would be like oh my god i'm programming my kids uh you know education through minty the bulldog lessons we'll see you all next time on twist friday