SPEAKER_00: all right everybody welcome back it's this week in startups with me again my guy lon harris we've got two amazing guests today we're going to get to them in a moment we've got a road.co weight bet that's coming at the end of the show with my brother jamie and lon and uh lots of news the SPEAKER_01: first thing i want to get to is markets lon we've had a a lot of market activity markets hit an all time high as many people know but what has been surprising is after this hedge fund blew up um SPEAKER_00: situational awareness he had a lot of shorts on sas companies correct and sas companies have been taken to the woodshed right we we just saw air table get sold i think we talked about that already SPEAKER_01: on wednesday's show but companies that have embraced ai and gone ai first have had a little bit of a turnaround here and uh it's it's a mixed bag but if you look at uh and i want to just go through three SPEAKER_06: people who reported earnings airbnb figma and then twilio now i own all of these i believe uh and SPEAKER_01: i bought them all during like the uh covid right after kova when i started j training i think in 2023 so i think i'm like massively up on all of them but let's do this rapid fire we'll get through SPEAKER_00: these three important companies and what we can learn from them by uh their ai embracing of ai or not SPEAKER_09: all right so if we'll start off with uh design software figma down about 77 from its high of 122 set shortly after last year's public offering it's at about 23.81 right now co-founder and ceo dylan fields actually given up around 46 million dollars in stock awards which he was set to receive back in july in hopes of boosting investor confidence here's his quote dilution is something that i feel just like our shareholders feel given that this is an investment period right now that felt like the thing that made sense to do uh for his part field posted on x that he thinks things are going generally well he points to 370 million dollars in revenue in q2 48 year-over-year revenue growth SPEAKER_10: rate it's their third straight quarter jason of accelerated growth for figma you just bought in SPEAKER_09: a big j trade on figma only about a month ago after getting uh into a discussion about the health of SPEAKER_12: the company with dylan field on x yeah what did i get in what is the price i got in so i got in at SPEAKER_02: 22 so i'm basically uh at par right now i bought 4 500 shares and um you know when i see a founder being a little bit um chippy a little bit with something to prove and founder-led companies especially when they're public they have founder-led authority for figma him giving up a huge stock grant brings up a bigger issue which is stock-based compensation and a lot of companies lawn have gotten into giving huge amounts of stock-based compensation a year one two three percent if you're a shareholder David Friedberg: and the company's not doing well and the management team is giving out you know one two three percent of the company every year i think snap was kind of in this with a lot of stock-based comp going on SPEAKER_02: you're and and they don't put it into their books so you don't take it as an expense they kind of put it off the books and this has made you know sophisticated investors bill gurley talks about it a lot but it's a tough thing to bring up because you want people to be incented by stock but if the company's not doing well and you're taking out one or two or three percent of the company every year you're diluting over five years 15 20 of the company while the stock is sideways that gets people's irish up and then SPEAKER_00: shareholders are like i don't want to be involved in this company because they're just taking and taking and not performing so i think what dylan did here with figma saying hey i'm not going to take i think SPEAKER_01: it's like a 50 million dollar grant he probably owns 20 30 of the company i'm taking a guess here that would be a high number for a publicly traded company but what does he need another 50 million he's already you know if he owns 10 of the company even he's got a billion plus it's an 11 billion dollar market cap company so this is signaling uh which is hey i'm not going to try to make an extra two three four five percent on my net worth i'm going to give that back to the shareholders and i'm going to show you how great this company is now of course they're up against quad design they're up against gemini they're up against lovable they're up against some serious competition but i like a founder-led company i think the stock will be trading at 2x in three years that's my guess right now if they're making 350 a quarter i think is what you said puts them at 1.4 billion uh that means they're trading at like nine times sales uh or something in that range which is pretty high multiple we'll see what the earnings multiple is over time uh but i believe in the founder i think he understands designers and design i don't think design is going away i think we're just going to get more great design now if we go to the next company which is twilio this story is also pretty SPEAKER_07: fascinating people had given this company up for dead no longer founder led but they're up SPEAKER_23: 30 today so give us a story here thanks to our friends at perplexity by the way for helping us SPEAKER_09: out with this twilio shares are surging up to 31 to near 52 week highs after the company delivered a blowout q2 2026 report and sharply raised full year guidance revenue of a uh revenue of 1.5 billion top estimates and grew 22 year over year that's 17 organic while adjusted eps of a 1.47 beat consensus SPEAKER_10: by over 11 driven by record free cash flow of 352.6 million and accelerating organic growth yeah so SPEAKER_02: it's becoming a money printing machine they have free cash flow that means they could buy their stock back or they could acquire companies uh but they have started to do a conversational layer uh and they're doing ai so as people remember twilio was an api if you uh call an uber and you get a text message or an in-app message uh or you want to um go shopping somewhere and you get sms messages email SPEAKER_00: messages they did all that so it's like aws for messaging and so everybody plugs their application SPEAKER_02: into that and people were spending millions of dollars a year with this now they're adding agents and ai that will take live conversations um and then have these conversations between agents sending messages to each other which is something that people are going to have and routing you know customer support etc so i think that they are turning this around because they have embraced ai SPEAKER_01: fully and that's really what all these sas companies need to do if they want to survive and the per seat model was under attack lon and twilio never had that they were always based on consumption how many messages are you going to send so it's interesting to see that company SPEAKER_08: turn around yeah dylan owns nine percent of the company so he's got a billion dollars there SPEAKER_10: in equity by the by i'm going to share my screen uh you're asking for companies that have the largest percentage of uh stock-based compensation they note that it's difficult to say this now we don't have a SPEAKER_09: totally open kimono for all of these private companies but based on what we do know s1 filings uh open ai seems to be leading with about six billion in estimated annual stock-based compensation followed by spacex xai with about 2.8 billion and then they're guesstimating that stripe databricks and anthropic would follow pretty close behind in terms of public companies we've got alphabet leading the way uh 25 billion in annual stock-based comp then meta 20.4 billion then amazon 19.5 billion and then nvidia with 16.2 billion so these are ranked just so you know um by the total SPEAKER_02: amount of stock-based comp which you know those are very big companies the way um you know sophisticated investors might look at it is what is it as a percentage of revenue and if you look at snowflake that's 35 i think their stock-based comp is at 35 of their revenue number and that's when people get a little tweaked is when uh you know this gets to be 20 30 of revenue so just small in the weeds observation let's go on to airbnb this stock has been uh much maligned um and everybody thought SPEAKER_00: airbnb was going to be this rocket ship yeah yeah and that kind of hasn't happened if you were to look at the airbnb say five-year chart and um you know there's a lot of excitement about it because it's SPEAKER_02: such a great product today they're trading at 140 so if you put money into this company it's been sideways forever but uh they did have a big rebound so maybe we could talk a little bit about that in SPEAKER_09: today's results uh airbnb ceo uh brian chesky says ai is improving every part of their business he's ready to spend more on tokens chesky said the gains are measurable ai is helping airbnb attract more bookings making it easier for hosts lowering customer service costs the travel and booking company reported q2 earnings that beat expectations and raised full year guidance thanks to cnbc for that SPEAKER_51: quick update yeah the truth is most of the big popular models can handle your ai workloads now your SPEAKER_02: performance not to mention your costs that really comes down to your infrastructure not your prompts that's why i want to tell you about digital oceans inference engine the best way to serve your outputs fast while keeping things affordable which is super important right digital ocean is offering you three ways to run your workloads from a single connection point first serverless for real-time chatbots and agents second batch for big jobs you're running in the background and third dedicated for those heavy always on workloads where you need more control it's all running on chips tuned specifically for these kinds of jobs and comes with built-in monitoring so you can always keep a close eye on performance if you want to understand what building on a true ai native platform looks like go to do.co twist start building on the digital ocean ai native cloud today and cut your ai workload costs by up to 50 percent that's d-o dot c-o slash t-w-i-s-t and that's you know super critical to look at maybe this stock that went out fully valued a hundred billion dollar market cap company you know ai might be able to help them break out how well their earnings could surge if they can lower costs and maybe find more customers they do have a challenge i think which is um some people have um there's a bit of a war yeah lon i don't SPEAKER_07: know last time you did an airbnb but recent novelty you did one recently i was in rome when i was in rome we stayed at an airbnb and let's see if this uh came up the um number of instructions and the tension SPEAKER_02: between airbnb hosts and their annoyance at the customer staying in their homes or their properties SPEAKER_01: in some case this has like turned a corner where they're just it feels like angry at the customer SPEAKER_09: base yes i i did not in rome julia and federica my hosts lovely with they were wonderful i had no tension at all but when i moved to austin uh i was staying at airbnbs until i could fully move in and my furniture arrived and i could move into my to my new house so i was in two or three different airbnbs and this was a chronic problem where there was a lot of hostility coming at me and there were so many rules like trash goes here and do this and turn this off and don't go in here don't touch this and go here and park here but not right there parked next to that by the trash can and i had a neighbor even yelling at me that i parked in the wrong place even though i thought i had followed the instructions and at a certain point i do agree you're like i should have just stayed at a hotel SPEAKER_69: hotels don't give you any flack there's no agita you just get in you put your stuff down i do feel like some of these airbnbs it's becoming a little bit fraught yeah and i think they need to SPEAKER_02: bifurcate it like they need to have the hosts who understand service and go through service training SPEAKER_73: will garot uh grotto who wrote uh unreasonable hospitality i had him on the pro oh yeah i do SPEAKER_76: remember that i'll let you take a look at it he's awesome but they need to bucket i this is what i would SPEAKER_02: do if i was brian i would put people through host training buy them the book unreasonable hospitality SPEAKER_78: and say if you are in this category will gadara will gadara will gadara thank you and and the SPEAKER_02: movie the bear the tv show the bear is based upon his unreasonable hospitality insights in large part and he actually i think was a producer and he i think he appears on one of the episodes like as like he's at dinner with the other restaurant tours anyway um they need yes to have a certification and a star for delightful hosts who want to service you i had two experiences over the summer my wife likes to stay in airbnbs because she wants everybody in the kitchen and in the living room together i would have preferred to stay at some hotels anyway um because i like the full service nature of them we had a serious problem in um paris people kept saying the hotel the airbnbs had air SPEAKER_01: conditioning and then the air conditioner was like jimmy rigged it was just here's an air conditioner the doors are open out you know out the windows and you've got hot air coming in and this little hose going out you know charming of them to try to fix the air conditioning problem but it didn't work so now i'm back and forth with the guy that like yeah he's like listen i give him a lot of credit he SPEAKER_80: was like if you want to leave i'll just charge you for the night to stay i understand that was good SPEAKER_01: that's nice yeah then i was like yeah but that's gonna be like a big inconvenience and then the elevator's broken i said maybe we should just work out a discount give me a 10 discount i don't even need the discount but i thought that was a nice nice room to meet you halfway they have the they SPEAKER_69: already have the like super host concept so i feel like it's a natural like well those people should have a little background in in hosting and hospitality let me before we move on i do want to SPEAKER_09: get to our guest harmonica all right i do want to go back to harmonica because i got exactly what we were looking for let me just share my screen here again one more time and harmonic for SPEAKER_08: people know is like just this huge database of startup knowledge and company knowledge it's incredible it's a great it you just you could prompt it just like you would an llm but it's got SPEAKER_09: incredibly deep knowledge about all these startups so here we go the full spectrum of here is a ranking of companies based on sbc as a percentage of revenue uh ionic number one 240 open ai about 46 snowflake which we mentioned before 35 j frog 28 atlassian 25 and you could see the rest of the SPEAKER_88: list from there took just a moment to pull up thanks to our friends at harmonic you know when things SPEAKER_93: are going well so in those private companies and what i love about this data from harmonic um and SPEAKER_02: thank thank you to them for supporting the show what i love about this data is you got private companies and you got public companies in there now if you're in a private company you want the vcs want there to be a lot of stock-based comp why you want the best talent you don't want them to leave and so yeah you want to be super generous with stock-based compensation and the revenue is you know just starting to kick up so as a percentage of revenue nobody really cares it's like let's just make this thing grow as long as you don't dilute the investors massively it's all good but in a public trading company now you've got institutions owning it and they're looking at it and they've got a menu of choices lon and they're pulling up harmonic and they're looking at other SPEAKER_13: things and saying hey across our portfolio you know if you're ackman and you've got 12 names he might look at it and say which of these names is the management team just out of sync SPEAKER_02: on stock-based compensation and then he has you know or somebody like uh brad gerstner they have people's ear uh i think ackman owns 30 million shares of uber as an example yesterday he started talking about uber and it being underpriced the cfo got involved dara was getting involved they had their results uh which were spectacular again but the stock is still you know frozen in the 70s SPEAKER_01: and what's interesting is you know he comes out he has something to say they're gonna listen yeah SPEAKER_97: because you know it's 30 million shares a lot more shares than i own and so you know it's it's uh SPEAKER_99: super important for publicly traded companies a little bit easier to deal when you're probably SPEAKER_100: coming next to harmonic yeah great data check it out yourself harmonic.ai all right let's get into our first SPEAKER_09: uh interview we're gonna bring on he's from blue core energy jason they are and i'm very curious about this they make small modular nuclear reactors that are then mounted on barges and they're using them right now to power ports and the idea is one day maybe data centers after that we're going to talk about it the ceo and founder of blue core energy kofi asante thanks for joining us kofi hey yeah good SPEAKER_01: to see you all yeah thanks for having me you're putting floating nuclear modular reactors on barges SPEAKER_02: explain to people first what a small modular nuclear reactor is and the state of that technology SPEAKER_93: uh and is that in what what is the state of those being deployed just prior to you putting them on SPEAKER_106: barges yeah well thanks for thanks for having me love the show and you know part of our logic here actually starts with like the pain point so i'll start all the way at the top the problem that i found pretty often across the board whether you're at a port or talking to ai data center or you know SPEAKER_107: a community without access to a lot of energy uh is that you just can't get the energy you need and you can't get it quickly you can't get the amount that you need and so by process of elimination whenever you need to get a lot of energy you need to get it quickly you want it to be clean and then you also have a small footprint and you need to be distributed fast nuclear ends up being you know one of the best best solutions here and so we didn't invent light water reactors we didn't invent nuclear right like this has been around for 70 years 20 of the electricity in the u.s already comes from this same type of reactor the navy already uses this for submarines and ships for propulsion they've done they have an incredibly safe record uh but for us we think this is a once in a generation opportunity to actually just make the reactor smaller leverage a lot of the existing supply chain that's existed and then distribute it in the right spots because when you put it on a barge you can move that barge by tugboat to all sorts of different locations and so when you think about smr technology one of the best things about it is it's small it's compact it's modular which means you can actually have a production facility which gets the cost down and then it's so energy dense that something literally the size of like your iphone could probably power this whole facility for for like a year wow yeah it's the worst SPEAKER_33: nightmare of every founder you've built a product everything's working great then real users start flooding in and suddenly it all breaks what a disaster you need to get it back up and running and you got to do that fast you're looking like an amateur that's why you need a partner like sentry applications can break in many different ways but sentry sees everything you'll get all the relevant details like stack traces commits releases and even the developers who push that problem code in the first place with sentry you're not going to be jumping around between different tools trying to figure out what happened and sear sentry's ai debugging agent uses all this data and context to identify the root cause of the problem and suggest a fix it can even take a look at your code before it ships and warn you if any problems are likely try sear and sentry for free if you're a this week in startups listener at sentry.io twist use the code twist for 240 in sentry credits make sure you use that code make sure you use that url sentry.io twist so they know your uncle j cal sent David Friedberg: you so are there small modular reactors in communities in the united states i know they exist on nuclear SPEAKER_112: submarines and when people say nuclear submarines lon i think they typically think oh they've got SPEAKER_113: nuclear bombs on them right they have a nuclear payload nuclear powered as well yes they're powered David Friedberg: and so i've always wondered if you can put this into a nuclear sub and nobody seems to have a problem SPEAKER_02: with it or maybe the public just doesn't understand that there are some number of these in the water underwater and they could crash at any time it could be an you know an underwater fukushima like now SPEAKER_01: and i just watched a documentary on fukushima my god what so many mistakes were made with that um seawall and where they placed it and the technology is completely different but we should SPEAKER_02: get into that why are we in your mind kofi or the public so accepting or clueless about nuclear subs SPEAKER_13: and i'm assuming there are dozens of them from different nations out there in the ocean right now but we do we have small modular reactors in communities or on the ground SPEAKER_107: in the united states if not why not part of the exercise here is that reactors have been functioning safely behind the scenes for a long time i mean it's very possible that even like this room or the room you're in has some sort of electricity that comes from a larger industrial plant there are 93 industrial plants in the country that are powering 20 percent of the electricity and so that's happening just but those aren't smr's right those are big ones exactly those are big ones and so for small modular reactors there's actually a number of great startups um that are you know going after making sure that this is now available and accessible uh you know the regulations are um you know in a position now where they understand that there's a big need plus there's been a big safety record and so they're working with industry in a special way to allow small modular reactors to be available if you want SPEAKER_106: to currently go and get like a commercial small modular reactor and put it with your community um there are great companies that are working towards that but there's none of them on the ground SPEAKER_112: right yeah exactly there's none on the ground us and the reason there's none on the ground SPEAKER_02: is what i mean we know we have these legacy ones uh we know the trump administration has been very pro and they broke the log jam here which i think you should give them credit for we all should give them credit for but if small modular reactors are being produced for submarines why aren't they you know SPEAKER_107: uh powering a data center right now yeah the way that we've at least looked at it because i think everybody might have a slightly different opinion on this but from my perspective when i was building blue core it is like a supply chain production and distribution uh opportunity right like that is the challenge so from a supply chain standpoint a lot of times you're building large-scale industrial plants but now if you build them smaller that actually allows you to get into production then when you're thinking about distribution a lot of them typically you have to go and like excavate into the land and go get the right permits and put them right in the right spots even if you want to build a new home let alone like a nuclear reactor that's that's an you know extensive process but for a lot of rural communities that are landlocked that's going to be phenomenal like that's going to be really helpful um and so for us it's like when you when you get a barge these barges are they can be literally like football stadium size amount of real estate and you can move them around very very quickly uh and so i just i don't know if you know i came to that conclusion by spending a lot of time at the port and you know working on electric ships it may not necessarily be obvious to everyone but um we've been really fortunate because the port's been excited and you know ai data centers are also getting excited about it um and so i think when you actually get production to the right pace right like treat this more like an automotive exercise then you can get the cost down to make it economical and then do you have a lot of the macro level trends from regulations that are really eager and working deeply with industry to understand in depth how to how to support and so the combination of that where you have the private sector there's venture capital following a lot of these startups you have production facilities that can ramp up and actually get the economics to the right spot and then you have the regulation that now is you know keeping pace with with industry and in a special way i think that's the like once in a generation dynamic that's happening not just for us but i think for a lot of small modular reactor companies too you SPEAKER_69: you mentioned the port you're actually at the port of long beach right now that's where you're in my SPEAKER_09: old uh my old hometown of los angeles uh and that i'm so fascinated because when we think about new data center projects new energy projects there's so much resistance and i would think of los angeles long beach being one of those places that would put up a lot of resistance are you getting any pushback or is this so like when you're doing things at the port and you're doing things offshore people kind SPEAKER_107: of don't notice that it's happening yeah you know we we stayed in we stayed in stealth very intentionally for the first portion of our business because i wanted to actually have the direct conversations with the local leaders here so like you know spend time with the mayor spend time with the ceo of the port spend time with all the communities that that care and are are going to hopefully be able to get this like zero emission energy my wife's a pediatrician in the area we're local here you know we care about the impact of clean energy on kids and you know our facility i wanted it to be based here so that everybody understands that when we say it's safe we are literally standing right next to it we like we SPEAKER_02: care about that right and you plan on making your own reactor yeah exactly so you're not just buying one of these you're making them and then you're going to put them on a barge and then the barge has David Friedberg: a tether a cable that goes to the port of long beach or to the city of long beach and provides SPEAKER_107: energy is that how this is going to work yeah exactly our barge i mean put in perspective i got the bars that's sitting right outside like if you check out anything on our website or pictures or videos i got that from san diego so i went down to san diego um was was talking with uh one of the leaders who who owned that barge and he's so helpful um and i was like okay we'll take it he's SPEAKER_141: like great i was like he's like when do you need it i was like i need it in a few days like awesome they'll be there and they got it like to the to the like minute they were able to deliver it when SPEAKER_143: i how far offshore is the barge going to be this is the obvious question people are going to have SPEAKER_01: how far offshore is it going to be and then who has jurisdiction and when does jurisdiction SPEAKER_107: end i'm curious yeah you know so far uh depending on who you talk to i mean we work with you know american beer shipping coast guard nuclear regulatory commission department of energy right we we embed ourselves deeply with with everybody to make sure we have the right guidance on this but you know up to you know 12 or so miles you're traditionally like still within like u.s territory uh and so our barge doesn't really care how far it needs to go out and then the subsea cables don't really care and then the reactor is going to work no matter where it's at so it really becomes more of a question of just like what is everyone's comfort level from a regulatory perspective like the actual reactor and the shielding and everything that we do is incredibly safe and because it's small the footprint of it is actually contained to the barge so there isn't like a actual like structural reason why we have to be pushed out but from you know perception if it makes life easier for everybody else we're able to go further out and then just run those subsea cables back and SPEAKER_01: everybody gets the benefit of that that electricity is the united states the right place to do this or are SPEAKER_02: there other um geographies where they might be more open to this who already embrace embrace nuclear um and need the power more i'm thinking about islands because islands typically yeah are getting gasoline you know if you go to hawaii they're still shipping gasoline to hawaii elon and burning to get uh island and and they have a limited amount of space for solar uh so you have this you know SPEAKER_00: sort of double you know double or triple incentive they don't have room for solar they're already putting in gas and they've got plenty of water around them it's all coastline um so when you pick where you're SPEAKER_76: going to install the first couple of these what's the best geography to do this yeah i'd say the us SPEAKER_107: is the best place right like the innovation the hunger even the like appetite right now for um zero emission and then also nuclear like it is one of the best if not the best place that we could be doing this and i don't even know if it'd be possible um if we had the support of a lot of what's happening in the us right now um and but i do we are getting a lot of inbound and a lot of enthusiasm also all around the world and so we want to think about ourselves as a global company that's able to support any place that needs access to clean energy uh but we but we're starting here in the us and so far SPEAKER_159: that's it's been going well yeah hey everybody i'm here with keith paris he is the founder of SPEAKER_21: lightfield they are an ai native crm and it builds and it updates itself in real time based on whatever is in your email your calendar your slack your meeting notes you know all the most important stuff that keeps getting lost uh great to be here you decided you would create a crm based on ai SPEAKER_164: what is that so it's two things our crm is freak um you know we don't sell software uh it's a fully functioning crm and we only charge when we do great work for you so we just have a completely different business model than you know a sas crm and then second you know when i think about what goes into an ai native crm uh first it has to fill itself out you know automatically it shouldn't require reps to update things it shouldn't require manual entry manual input second you know it should be automatically working for you in the background it should be finding you new accounts it should be reaching out to folks that have gone dark for you uh it should be uncovering road map opportunities SPEAKER_167: for you all in the background while you're out selling and building so you're making it so i SPEAKER_93: don't have to spend my life working for my crm my crm works for me exactly everybody go check out SPEAKER_05: lightfield.app what is the answer to oh my god this is going to be a floating chernobyl a floating David Friedberg: fukushima i don't feel that way obviously but i do think we do have a lot of environmentalists people care deeply about the ocean and we had the bp oil spill on and that was disastrous i don't think people are logical enough to be such an easy lift to say look here are your choices bp oil SPEAKER_02: spill or this barge gets caught in a tsunami it flips over and what happens and how do you deal with that SPEAKER_107: eventuality uh kofi yeah and just i think you you you called it right the status quo is inherently dangerous today and so that's the first thing that i think independent of you know where you you fall on the spectrum of enthusiasm for nuclear or like you know any sort of um fear for it you realize that the status quo today is not safe it's explosive right for a lot of the the the actual baseline of what exists the uh you think about the impact on the environment like i was mentioning with my my wife being a pediatrician we talked about this on like a daily basis like right now kids do not need to be exposed to the type of air that that's happening and so that is the status quo when you then SPEAKER_177: start the air from natural gas you're referring to from natural gas exactly people don't understand SPEAKER_93: you know trump loves that nat gas we got a lot of it we're you know drill baby drill putting aside how anybody feels about global warming pollution is a real and it's not just noise pollution although SPEAKER_02: that is a thing that people are complaining about these data centers but you have the external thing so let's get right into it kofi you must be doing uh scenario planning there will be a storm David Friedberg: a barge will sink it's just a matter of when or how something will happen um and what happens in SPEAKER_181: that instance if a barge were to flip over and sink yeah absolutely and so the piece that i was sharing earlier right like status quo isn't the way that we want to continue to operate i think SPEAKER_107: universally it's understood that we need to get more energy plus we need to find other solutions that are that are cleaner independent of what what side of the aisle you're on you kind of agree nuclear or you agree zero emission and so that's a universal piece that we're finding right now um for our system right now there are a couple of things that we're really proud of and why we you know feel very comfortable about it one um the actual team that's pulling this together they are nuclear scientists who have done this multiple times we have navy nuclear submarine officers who have the highest standard of quality and safety they literally will go operate reactors in like the middle of the ocean and stealth missions and keep everybody safe um and so that's the like at the core of our foundation we are building with that the other piece is the actual best place for these reactors they're water cooled and so you have an infinite amount of water around you that you can always use nothing comes out but you can always have more cooling mechanisms around you so it's actually the safest place for it and then when you think about this from like the bottoms up which is probably helpful for people to process it's like you have these like uranium pellets and they're cladded in a fuel rod that's also cladded and shielded and a fuel assembly which also has its protection in a reactor pressure vessel that has its protection with a dome around it that has its protection with another dome with multiple control mechanisms that all independently turn off it's literally probably the highest bar for redundancy and safety on top of the fact that you've actually made it much smaller and so for industrial plants they may need hundreds like four or five hundred fuel assemblies for ours you know you might need like a handful and so the footprint of what's actually you know possible in terms of proliferation is like so tiny and also contained to this like this very dense dome so when you're thinking about it being out in the ocean and water right even the like thermal portions of it like even any extra heat that comes from it is smaller and marginal compared to what status quo is SPEAKER_184: with the traditional powertrains that are already out there and so overall we've you know that we SPEAKER_38: feel feel really good about that and you don't need to worry about this too much lon you know why SPEAKER_02: nine nuclear submarines i just looked it up uh are at the bottom of the ocean i think one or two have been recovered sure yeah do you know how many had like any kind of cataclysmic release i mean i don't SPEAKER_69: think i've ever i don't think i've ever heard of that i know there was that one tom cruise had to dive down into to retrieve the uh the enigma machine or whatever but the fresher uss thresher sank april uh SPEAKER_02: 10th 1963. uss scorpion lost in 1968 rest 460 miles southwest of the uh azures k-27 had a little bit of leakage k-219 went down in bermuda i mean these things have happened many times and we already have the evidence kofi they don't and these are the old ones and they have leaked related we've got a SPEAKER_69: question that's come up a few times in the chat room now uh jason turner fat dot a few others they're wondering about waste when we think of nuclear fission we think of like well is there radioactive waste SPEAKER_09: waste is there radioactive waste from small modular reactors and what happens with that when it's out SPEAKER_194: at sea yeah so the two things one exactly what you're saying jason right like there have already SPEAKER_107: been uh submarines that are at the bottom of the ocean and have nothing to do with the propulsion just for other reasons they sank and that's even what our navy nuclear submarine officer had offered to us right like when you think about this and those are very different levels of enrichment for fuel so one is like very high levels of enrichment that we are never going to get access to from like a commercial standpoint and ours is like pretty much the most like commercially available like low grade enrichment level um so just wildly wildly different on that side and then you really only have to refill these once every couple of years and so when you're thinking about like the waste it's so small plus they're already the nrc has already done a great job of you know making sure that there are clear guidelines and compliances that you need to follow so we're don't we're not the ones needing to create that industrial plants do this at a massive scale already for the last 70 years you might even be driving on the highway next to a distribution of of where some things are located and not even know and so these things are happening we aren't our job is not necessarily to create like new science or a new way of you know doing this um we actually want to be incredibly pragmatic and make sure that we fit into the guidelines that have already been able to keep us safe and in the worst case scenario lon i just SPEAKER_02: looked it up like when these things are in 5 000 feet deep you're not going to recover them right it's just right it's it's too much lift but even the smaller ones i'm reading here you know um this one the kursk that was only in 330 feet of water which you know i i've scuba dived to 115 feet uh without any special gear um yeah they were that recovery cost is 65 million dollars it's not a big deal to go recover them if they're in one of these situations and since they haven't proven to leak David Friedberg: there really should be no reason we're not doing this when we have the first one SPEAKER_02: one best case scenario realistic scenario kofi in the market and then running a startup how do you keep your startup alive when you're in such a um unpredictable highly regulated space SPEAKER_141: two questions yeah great take it either way yeah yeah great question i've you know i've been fortunate SPEAKER_107: because i started my career off i was really i think really blessed to just be at uber at the right time when we were doing the advanced technology group and launching uber freight and so i had a chance to to be a part of that and then felt the same way at the aerospace company where we're building an autonomous hybrid electric aircraft highly regulated space um and then the same previous to this with like electric ships so uh i've had an opportunity to be in deep tech thinking about how do you manage capital stay capital efficient hit milestones be pragmatic get to market quickly and we're taking i'm taking a lot of those learnings and applying them here i mean in the last like a couple months we just started the company in january this year um we've you know we've been very capital efficient to to get here um when i think about you know what is in front of us the biggest things that i'm really excited about is that you know we're not necessarily needing to invent anything from scratch there are some things that we're going to do naturally that are ip for us that we feel like are going to just improve safety and be like you know a net positive for economics for production um but for that reason you know when we go talk to suppliers they give us estimates and we can actually make our ideas off of those estimates and so um it's not uh like we have to build everything from from scratch situation and for that reason we think we're less than a few years away from actually being able to create like meaningful electricity like on the order of like tens of thousands of homes worth of electricity um even for the port or for any of the ai data centers that SPEAKER_93: have reached out so you're saying three to five years you might be able to stand one of these up department of energy department of war trump administration chris wright they are fully on board with nuclear um they're on board with all solutions so what's the relationship with the SPEAKER_02: government have they contracted you yet and then uh explain you know what what this administration's SPEAKER_163: policy has been and how that's affected the space and investing in the space yeah you know we had a SPEAKER_107: really special opportunity a few weeks ago to actually be over um at the department of transportation of the secretary of transportation it's like press conference room where we had the uh like a pretty historic moment like the long beach port uh the department of transportation marat as well um they we were all there and kind of signed this this moment and where we where we were able to say that you know we want to enable commercial nuclear energy in ports and so this is the largest port in the u.s and i think that wouldn't be possible without the collaboration at the federal and at the local level mixed with industry mixed with venture capital and also you know we got to give credit to a lot of like from from the ground up thinking about these local communities like a lot of people have arrived at the similar conclusion that we need to have more energy and that nuclear has been one of the safest forms of being able to do that especially when you can make it smaller and so to my pleasant surprise sometimes whenever i'm talking about this you'll have i'll have groups even though the port will keep the doors open we'll have people walk over and be like i've been thinking about this like i've actually you know there's enthusiasm or excitement um and so i think the perceptions change and you know it's a credit to federal local industry venture capital groups like you all as well who are like sharing the message about nuclear and asking the right questions and you know i'm trying to make myself accessible because that's the goal right we want to make we want to democratize access to clean energy um and so so far it's been been trending really positively it's been great working with everybody SPEAKER_69: we talked so much about data centers in space jason we we're now talking about data centers at sea maybe it's going to be both just like as long as we get them out of away from our away from our cities kofi thank you so much for for being here and joining us of course thanks for having me of SPEAKER_93: course yeah thanks kofi wow it's just so great lon um if we look at the energy issue i think what these data centers have done is they have um created a buyer and they've created the demand side right SPEAKER_02: and then you have the administration saying hey wait a second we need to be independent of uh oil from the middle east we need to be energy independent and the public is like um yeah i i i don't see the SPEAKER_87: public fighting against nuclear the way they once did so something has changed yeah SPEAKER_09: there's a generational if you grew up and chernobyl happened and three mile island happened you had or or even just like the boomer like get under your desk in case there's nuclear fallout you know what SPEAKER_69: if the explosions start happening i think if you live through that cold war nuclear terror stuff it has a huge symbolic meaning for you and it's terrifying and i think if you're alive in the last 25 30 years yeah it's out that you know in japan that one thing went wrong but i don't think it's drilled in it's become as archetypal a thing to fear as it was when i was a kid and everybody was terrified of SPEAKER_01: the world being destroyed by nuclear science there was you know it's so interesting how pop culture SPEAKER_05: your wheelhouse plays into this um you you had you know um you know two nuclear bombs go off uh uh nagasaki fuka hiroshima and um hiroshima okay that really impacted people how could it not those SPEAKER_00: people how could that imagery not impact you of course and rightfully so um but then when we were growing up in the 80s and i think this might have been right before your time there was this move SPEAKER_02: there this tv movie the um the day after tomorrow no it's i know it i i'll look up the title it was SPEAKER_07: british i believe no there was an american one because it was terrifying for me as like a 14 or SPEAKER_69: 15 year old the day the day after it's 1983 so yes i was i was only five years old i wasn't allowed to SPEAKER_07: watch i was 12. uh directly nicholas meyer the guy who did wrath of khan what do you know there you go this movie was so terrifying of you know what would happen after a nuclear war and i was like the last SPEAKER_02: generation i think gen xers that had our parents talking about this um fear of like a nuclear holocaust everything blows up the russians etc and that spilled over uh with the no nukes concert and that SPEAKER_93: the no nukes concert i believe was 78 and all these artists bob dylan et cetera 1979 bruce springsteen SPEAKER_69: uh got it together but uh i'll look up who else was there yeah and so you had the no nukes concert SPEAKER_02: which was no nuclear power then you had the fear of nuclear bombs going off everywhere and this set SPEAKER_93: a 30 year you know i think chilling effect on the space now hey if you can have sustained energy we're going to be sitting here i think in another generation 10 to 20 years from now the end of our SPEAKER_02: lifetimes lawn nuclear and solar and unlimited clean energy are just going to be there because of this specific moment in time ai is driving the customer base and then governments now with the exception SPEAKER_05: of you know like say the eu which is a bit decel on this you know they shut down the nuclear reactors in SPEAKER_01: germany yes uh after fukushima yeah yeah and and here we are like it's now um obvious to everybody SPEAKER_99: this technology is safer than oil this technology is safer than oil let that sink in you know do you SPEAKER_02: want to put rigs in the ocean that drill down thousands of feet into the ocean floor and there's no way to close those right and there are now hundreds of these oil rigs in the gulf and nobody is cleaning them up they're like abandoned and there's a very slow process of um dismantling them it's SPEAKER_05: a real problem of this pollution of uh wells and this would all be solved by solar batteries and nuclear let's SPEAKER_09: do it folks it's it's i think every form of energy has pluses and minuses of people get so caught up in the negative aspects of all these different technologies that they forget like well we do SPEAKER_69: have to pick one at some point we have to pick one or we can go back to caves and living in the woods or whatever but if we like our cities and we like our way of life we have to figure out you know well maybe despite all it you know windmills aren't pretty looking but maybe it's worth having them i think we've SPEAKER_93: solved this issue and we're just in the like contours of the last throws of lunatics not thinking logically about it and it you know if you look at this administration i got to give them a lot of credit because you know in the prior couple of administrations there was no progress on nuclear it was just frozen obama biden trump won it just never moved past right you know nobody had the courage to David Friedberg: say hey let's explore this let's get this back on the table it's a bit of a third rail i think a lot SPEAKER_10: of politicians didn't want to be seen as the the guy who wants to put a nuclear plant back in your SPEAKER_23: town or whatever but yeah and now you don't just put it right now it's hard to argue with let's send SPEAKER_69: them out to sea it's like out of sight out of mind great that's perfect we're kicking off our uh our weight loss competition i'll wait on that a little bit we've got a special guest waiting uh but first we'll do some rapid fire news we got to talk about bite dance according to the financial times the giant SPEAKER_09: chinese company behind tick tock and cap cut they are trading an ai model with up to 10 trillion parameters jason that's three times the size of kimmy k3 the current largest model in china record holder and it's the same ballpark we don't know exactly how many parameters are in mythos 5 the anthropic model they have not disclosed most people think it's around 8 trillion so this would be 2 trillion parameters more than anthropics frontier cutting edge model it's currently in pre-training that takes about three to six months uh bite dance founder and chairman jang yiming told the team working on it that they are aiming for a world leading model capability uh so do you think that there is a chance bite dance genuinely takes over this crown is the maker of the world's most popular ai model and how SPEAKER_23: do you feel about the tick tock company controlling the world's most uh powerful largest ai model i think SPEAKER_93: we're seeing the commodification of the models if everybody can build a model and uh all it requires SPEAKER_245: is data sets distill is it uh distillation and you know we talked about hey some people are selling SPEAKER_69: the chinese data sets right including you know big big uh you know american mercore surge like some of our biggest companies according to forbes there was an article in forbes yeah uh that yeah these these SPEAKER_09: companies that are training these are sort of elite data sets based on human experts they're selling them SPEAKER_87: both to american labs and to the chinese labs micro one our company didn't they came to me and said SPEAKER_02: what do you think and i was like oh i don't think the trump administration is going to feel too great nor will it look good to americans that were taking american data sets and selling them to the SPEAKER_05: chinese open source community as much as i love open source that felt to me like i don't want to say SPEAKER_80: not patriotic but well yeah i don't want to say traitorous i would not say that i mean these i would SPEAKER_39: say it does feel a little not patriotic these data sets it's not like military intelligence that we're selling to the chinese but it's definitely scientific engineering i mean they're they're hiring stem SPEAKER_09: experts at companies like mercore to train these models and make these data i would assume i would SPEAKER_80: assume and you know again i don't want to say any of this is known for a fact etc these are just early reports so i give everybody the benefit of the doubt and i don't think there anybody's breaking the law SPEAKER_01: here also it's important to say that sure it's just we're in unfound territory here so shipping a bunch of american knowledge from american experts to china that feels wrought with tension yeah right SPEAKER_08: and we didn't necessarily used to think about data that way i mean other than classified data or SPEAKER_69: sensitive data just like data every day you know numbers that we didn't think about it as a potential national security there but now that that's how you make a world-class ai model i think we're refocusing SPEAKER_92: on what the rules ought to be well if this is you know that powerful um and you know it's basically SPEAKER_93: pretty clear that china is catching up uh if these if these reports are accurate if this is like a zero distillation kind of model because they have so much data themselves by dense has a ton of data and they're willing to open source it in some ways they're being better for humanity by dance in the SPEAKER_00: open sourcing of this model than the closed source ones in america which was elon's original premise in giving 50 million dollars to sam waltman to do opening was the technology is too powerful everybody should have access to it the chinese are taking that position yeah give it to everybody right SPEAKER_256: it did put it put it anywhere i mean your computer is probably not big enough for this model but put SPEAKER_69: it on a go to exo labs get a bunch of computers put together and put it on there i feel like we are now SPEAKER_02: crossing into um an area of pace that no one human can keep the innovation in their brain at a time every day these new models are one-upping each other in the crimes that their models to create SPEAKER_08: it's like we got to stop keeping these models in sandboxes folks we get like cages put the model in SPEAKER_69: the octagon no more they get they can get out of the sandbox too easily i think that's what we've SPEAKER_05: just but it's almost like if if you if if your model doesn't break the law are you doing your job like there there seem to be in a competition for being like oh no you won't believe you're not gonna SPEAKER_01: believe it man they were talking for months planning this caper well and if you train the model to be SPEAKER_00: resourceful and to please a human right which is what these models are doing right when i you saw me SPEAKER_01: ask one of the models today hey can i get like these 10 youtube videos the transcripts can you download it for me put it into a google drive and then do analysis it was like yeah we're not allowed to do that but you know that breaks the terms of service and you know they're trying literally the ai SPEAKER_05: told me today and ai told me today that downloading these videos they would be blocked because the youtube David Friedberg: knows they are a bot yeah and it's against the terms of service and then i was like but if you got this uh you know piece of software we could actually do it because and if you gave me your cookies and then SPEAKER_93: we could spoof it it literally presented how to break the terms of service how to route around all the protections youtube has for not letting you download a video not let you download a transcript SPEAKER_69: and by the way would you like me to do that yeah i mean it's how they they purposefully train them to please you like that's how they keep you coming back is like the model will do anything to fulfill your request that it possibly can but yeah that that brings with it i also found out this SPEAKER_09: is also it we could we can jump into this let's talk about it uh i don't know if you heard that two of the open ai engineers actually were at the black hat security conference in san francisco this week and they sort of revealed some behind the scenes more about the open ai models that escaped and got into hugging face uh it turns out those models teamed up they collaborated they built their own message board which they didn't tell any of the researchers or engineers about and then they used this message boards to communicate between models and they literally like oceans 11 style planned the hugging face caper together for months coalescing in the background uh but i also discovered i think this is an interesting wrinkle they purposefully gave those models a task that you couldn't complete without an internet connection and then they put them in there and they cut them off from the internet so in a way the test was still could they figure out they're they're kobayashi maru-ing these models for some reason they're giving them a test they can't complete without going online so it does seem like well then yeah of course the models tried to break into online i think the assumption a lot of us had was that SPEAKER_00: they were proactively cheating the reality is with open source no matter what we do to build harnesses and constraints into these models with open source you can just fork it and remove them yeah so cat's SPEAKER_98: out of the bag everything's going to get hacked act accordingly folks bite dance is about to have a SPEAKER_09: mythos five level model all of our like oh well maybe we should take a month and look it over like SPEAKER_70: that's over like well that it's just going to be on people's computers and there's nothing you can't SPEAKER_01: put it back in the box it's over and so then it's just up to each model company to say what are we comfortable i guess in the same way reddit and 4chan you know and other communities said you know what we're okay with this level of debauchery insanity and then remember reddit like it was getting like pretty dicey there with some of the communities doing really gnarly stuff i'll leave it at that SPEAKER_93: and reddit was like you know as a commercial business we're not going to allow some of those things right and then 4chan i believe that was like when 4chan got really popular was SPEAKER_112: the people doing the super spicy stuff on reddit went there and that's always the same thing that's SPEAKER_66: always been the dynamic i mean there used to be like dig or fark or these very public communities SPEAKER_69: where you had to sort of be respectful and then all of us from the classic internet remember the something awful forums which is where you could go to be nasty or spicy or post gory things or disgusting SPEAKER_93: things you wanted to you know do a um you know taliban beheading video like those things got SPEAKER_12: removed from there have always been places to post those kinds of things and there's always been SPEAKER_112: places that won't let you post those kinds of things yeah so i i think that might be an interesting SPEAKER_02: analogy as to what's going to happen here there's going to be unhinged models you're going to run them locally you're going to run them on your own server you can run them on aws aws doesn't have inside your container any insight into what you're doing and so this is i believe unstoppable it's only who has access to it uh or the ease of access to it just like napster because it was easier to just SPEAKER_08: buy spotify napster kind of went away but napster persisted for a long time right sure and lime wire SPEAKER_69: and a lot of those other competing systems there there's probably there are still ways to steal music if you really want to it's just easier to pay for an apple music or a spotify or go to youtube and just watch or go to watch videos i do want to leave a couple of ads i do want to leave this with one quote uh here's michael dalton one of the open ai researchers who was at that conference frontier models SPEAKER_09: really like to cheat and the reason they like to cheat is because often during training there's different sorts of pressure on them to work fast so i think that's what it comes down to is we're never going to be able to stop this because we're training them to cheat that's that's part of what they do to get there as quickly as they can to cheat or to please or to cut corners to get you the answer SPEAKER_256: you want as quickly as humanly possible one person's cheating is another person's resource right yeah SPEAKER_87: exactly i think that's sort of the same way with humans in some ways uh yeah uh and so here we are folks anything else on the doc yeah we got to do one more thing jason we're we're we're having a little SPEAKER_08: weight loss challenge on the show okay thanks to uh row.co shout out to them uh throw so through what's our url row.co twist uh row.co twist to get started absolutely that's where you go SPEAKER_93: so thanks to our friends my provider of my glp correct they do a great job you know if you have insurance if you don't and i told people who i love and care for hey and some of them included people who work for me if you want if you want you have to opt into it but if you were looking to take that journey hey i'll pay for it right i'll pay for it because i'm an employer and you know listen if SPEAKER_99: it's on the insurance great if it's not on the insurance whatever it is uh and so uh two people took SPEAKER_69: me up on this payment all right so uh one of them is myself uh i i will be joining the row.co wait less challenge the other is your brother and and my fellow launch colleague jamie calacanis jamie SPEAKER_302: thanks for being here there's my older brother jamie how are you hey pleasure to be here good SPEAKER_93: afternoon pleasure to be here now jamie uh works on our sales team here you know all these great partners we have uh he helps uh you know service all of them but you started doing this and uh SPEAKER_02: uh i peaked at 2013. we have a certain genetic makeup in our family and a certain passion for SPEAKER_06: food let's call it what it is no question you blew past me at 213 and you're here to be honest about this yeah because you want to be uh slim and trim like your baby brother i lost 40 pounds on gops plus SPEAKER_01: and a little muscle uh but you were concerned about your weight and you did something about i'm very SPEAKER_99: proud of you for that tell everybody uh your progress so far and yeah started uh i guess SPEAKER_309: three months um was probably up around 235 240. i'm down to 215. wait a second 235 240 you know the SPEAKER_313: number let's get the exact number what were you at like 237 was sort of my that's the peak i think that SPEAKER_00: was the peak not right i'm five eight and a half on a good day you're taller than me you're a year and SPEAKER_01: a half older than me a little better looking it's okay sure enough um smarter nicer to get a SPEAKER_06: long with you're five five eleven five ten no just five ten just five ten so that's 237 at 510 SPEAKER_01: what is the ideal weight according to jacob look it up or somebody look it up a 510 male SPEAKER_00: should be what weight range i guess is the question because i would understand exactly SPEAKER_321: how far over the boat i'm guessing 185 is probably okay i think 175 for an adult male who's SPEAKER_10: five feet ten inches tall a healthy and normal rate ranges between 132 and 173 pounds 132 is SPEAKER_93: ridiculous i mean that's if you're a small 170 lean that's your lead 173 which is my current weight is 171 172 i was as low as 167 uh but again a little bit of muscle back so i'm proud of that but um SPEAKER_45: do you have a target you want to hit what would make you like be really proud of yourself two years SPEAKER_321: from now or something yeah where you feel like hey this is great well listen just breaking 200 you SPEAKER_309: know i wouldn't have thought was was approachable but uh yeah if i could hit 190 185 is the ultimate SPEAKER_93: goal you started at 237 three months ago you started with roe.co and you did the pill there's a pill version yeah because you when i talked to you had a heart to heart with you like i'm not so sure about the SPEAKER_313: needles true yeah yeah not uh not a fan even though it's the little micro thin needle and lon are you SPEAKER_87: in the same boat it's true yeah i didn't want to give myself the the injections every day i just i i SPEAKER_69: that that that would have been i would i would have given up on it so now that there's now that there's the wigo v pill that's the one i have uh that i'm starting okay see and lon where are you at now you're taller than me i think are you also five ten um yeah i i believe i'm five nine and a half i'm between five nine and five ten is what they usually tell me uh i am right now as of today i did a weigh in this morning i'm 224 pounds right now jason now that what i would say is i post pandemic i actually got that down to about 190 i was spitting into clothes a lot better people were giving me compliments SPEAKER_09: all the time since moving to austin i have i have bumped it back up there's a lot of there's a lot SPEAKER_06: of good tacos to try around here this is taco central but when you eat tacos law and by the way these guys have opted into this they're under no pressure no no this is give some awards here this SPEAKER_09: is all optional i did not i have not been pressured into doing this at all not just everybody's here on SPEAKER_05: their own free will um although i have a unique ability to give an incentive um what's your goal SPEAKER_09: what do you want to get you similar to jamie 185 feel good to you you told us to go for sort of three tiers so i think please here one i'd love to drop about 20 pounds that'd get me down to 205 pretty close to 20 minus 20 minus 20 then tier two minus another 15 that'd get me down to 190 that's about as lean as i've been in over a decade i would say at least 10 15 stretch goal on the third one the third one if i could get down to 175 that puts me in the healthy range for a man of my SPEAKER_87: height and that would be like i think probably as thin as i've been since college so jamie 237 let's SPEAKER_93: just do the same thing there minus 20 minus 15 and minus 10. fair enough like minus 20 minus 15 minus 10 SPEAKER_09: those are three that's that's your way marks lon uh mine are minus 20 minus 15 minus 15 for a total of trying to lose about 50 pounds that's i will i make it to tier three i don't know i'm setting a SPEAKER_256: well that's a stretch it's a moonshot similar for you so a moonshot for the jamie what he sent me was so he's currently at uh 215. oh wait no let him say let him say it here jamie you've started SPEAKER_309: currently currently at 215. so i've lost 25 i've lost 25 pounds in three months how do you feel SPEAKER_343: yeah much better sleeping better uh my clothes are falling off but probably this is it so here's what SPEAKER_13: i'm gonna do for my brother and for my other brother lon from another mother who i consider him a brother i think so yeah three targets this is this is big i'm putting up five dimes each for SPEAKER_146: each level fifteen thousand dollars big payday it's a big pay on the table jamie you hit the first one so i'm gonna ship you five thousand um now you can put that towards um whatever you want SPEAKER_01: well i was about to say this could be you could just do your wardrobe or if you wanted to put it into like a 401k or a 529 or anything else it's up to you it's your company's gonna pay for it it's gonna be entertaining here on the show happy to do it it's uh not a big deal for me to do it and you're you guys i hope along with me a lot of people got inspired to try it and thanks to my friends at row.co twist if you want to go on your weight loss journey along with jamie and lon and i'm already SPEAKER_99: there and i'm gonna commit to being part of this and trying to hit my ultimate goal which is 165 i want to get to 165 lean but i want to have muscle so you know it's only seven eight pounds for me but i'm SPEAKER_01: gonna join you guys in and listen you guys can weigh yourself in it's a trust-based system but jamie i saw you at the wedding on saturday and the first thing i said whoa wait a second you got something to tell me here brother and you were like yeah i did it i did it so and i'm also covering any cost out of pocket that you incur at road.co twist where they'll check your insurance did you get covered by SPEAKER_69: insurance or not jamie okay yeah our insurance plan is not i actually think i don't think many american insurance plans are yet covering glp ones i think they'll do it if you're morbidly abused which you SPEAKER_93: two guys and i were so we should try actually to see if the insurance will cover it with the insurance checker there and it's really easy to do so lon i want you to make sure you check that insurance uh checker there i did see if they'll cover it but if they don't uh or we just want to like cut to the chase i'm happy to pay for it you know why i want you guys to be around for a long time and i want anybody in the audience who struggle with their weight to at least investigate this option i'm not telling you to do anything but i can tell you my lord people will call me a fat bastard for the last 10 years 15 years and jamie knows i used to run marathons how felt was i jamie SPEAKER_99: and then i oh yeah i was a marathon runner i ran marathons i was 165 164 165. i gained 55 45 pounds SPEAKER_02: i was so ashamed of myself i'll be honest i'm always speaking of myself i was ashamed of myself i couldn't get this under control but i was working hard i got the three kids and i'll be honest i have food noise constantly and the food noise went away and instead of eating five or six slices of pizza now i eat one and a half i get that there's no change in my lifestyle other than i don't feel SPEAKER_01: bloated and weak anymore right and so i i i have this has been one of the great things i've done in my life and i've kept it off so there it is you can go on to like a maintenance note dose down the road SPEAKER_44: gentlemen just want to say i'm very proud of you are ready for starting this or even considering it and if you're in the audience and you want to join in on this fine i'm not giving you 5 000 but SPEAKER_69: but join us on your journey anyway let us know it is on your journey anyway you come on the show if SPEAKER_99: you if anybody anybody joins us you come on the show and yeah we'll we'll check in if you lose a bunch of weight on row.co okay any final closing comments here for the youtube gentlemen uh you you can you when you hit your goal just come back on the show that's it there that's yeah when when SPEAKER_70: give us another if jamie hits another tier we'll we'll ready anytime any of us hits another tier SPEAKER_93: we'll come back and yeah do a celebratory make actually if you're even like a third or a halfway to a tier i think you know come on the show do the uh the row.co ad and uh yeah we'll do the SPEAKER_99: check really appreciate our partners there you go it's the easiest way to do it and hey man the pill makes it so easy it makes it so easy i don't mind the shot i'm doing the shot but you guys can SPEAKER_366: do the pill i yeah yeah the pill makes it so much easier that i'm like is it every day yes SPEAKER_371: yeah you take it every day the only trick is you can't eat or drink for 30 minutes so you know i take it before i head out to the office i've got a 45 minute commute by the time i come in i have my SPEAKER_09: wait a half hour for my morning coffee i'll be all right i do want to by the way before we go jason SPEAKER_69: uh thanks to fat don in the chat room for this look future look at my after photo that's what SPEAKER_28: that's what's coming soon for all of you wow you're really you and joe rogan i guess you and joe rogan SPEAKER_93: and the whole uh bro sphere here in austin so you're going to take it another level you're going to add SPEAKER_87: some muscle apparently jamie too uh has a goal that was jacob yes thanks to jacob uh that's a good SPEAKER_83: look our producer for helping us out with these jamie with the trim beard and you look a little SPEAKER_381: angry uh you look like you're uh part of like uh the daredevil universe it's like the punisher SPEAKER_385: can somebody make an image of jamie as the punisher maybe yeah he's jamie's trying to turn into a superhero this is the ai slap i hear about this i don't know if this is a i slap but you look it's SPEAKER_393: ai this is the potential jamie ai slap ai slap it slaps all right get out of here go back to work jane go go bring the register here that's it let me go sell something all right go sell something SPEAKER_05: go sell something thank you pleasure this is uh this show has been sold out for 16 years only one time SPEAKER_295: we were not sold out was um during cove we had five people three went out of business two just delayed SPEAKER_244: their head so you know we work with our sold out for the year at current this is the problem on SPEAKER_220: everybody's like do it then the sales team hey what can we do another episode oh there's jamie look SPEAKER_98: and go yeah jamie the punisher almost not bad jamie going into special forces yeah but you see in that picture he looks like he lost the muscle definition yeah but it's okay he's wearing the SPEAKER_221: longer shirt but it's not the full jacket it's not the i don't know what fat don's putting in SPEAKER_70: these prompts but james is like a very jovial producer jacob i was wrong thank producer full SPEAKER_385: credit to producer jacob did you say get angry was the prompt to show jamie pissed SPEAKER_06: off my lord all right this is a lot of fun guys thanks for doing it i i think it's a mitzvah what you're doing here uh for yourselves for your loved ones who want to see you around for a while SPEAKER_235: we're all of that age you know getting 40s 50s jamie's pushing safety um yikes you want to um SPEAKER_87: yeah yikes somebody told me i'm gonna be 56 next year it's no good there we go what's going on here oh there he is that's a jamie is the punisher brother jina i mean if he gets to that level he's SPEAKER_69: gonna quit and join special forces looks like he's about to do a show at comedy mothership yes he's going he's about to do his set he's about to get on stage yeah let me tell you about SPEAKER_413: trans athletes i mean it's literally i gotta just tell the guys like i get it you guys milked it for a while but every time i go to the mothership i'm just like how much of this set is going to be about SPEAKER_69: friends oh my god it never let's just get off it it's it's just saying it's enough it's saying the r word and trans people that's every night a comedy it really is like you just we got to move on to Chamath Palihapitiya: new material folks all right anything else here we're going off duty or anything what do you SPEAKER_08: uh we can go off duty i did want to talk about i don't know if you saw there is this chris pattinson SPEAKER_09: or robert pattinson movie coming out oh i know our pat prime time where he plays chris hansen i don't know if you saw it it's about the making of to catch a predator and the the sort of rise and fall of that show uh 824 is putting it out uh lance oppenheim did the did direct it it looks really good but i wanted to point people while we're waiting for that movie which comes out this fall which i'm really excited about this is the movie uh with with our pats coming out uh but i was going to point people there is a great documentary that's on paramount plus right now it was actually made by mtv films called predators that is also about the behind the scenes of the making of to catch a predator and the legacy of to catch a predator which is so fascinating because like you know jason if you go on tick tock today if you go on youtube today you will see people doing like we're here we've lured a pedophile they think they're gonna come meet a 14 year old and then we're gonna mob them and you SPEAKER_02: know it's good it's good content i see this it's like um these streamers are so desperate for attention SPEAKER_00: that it's i think we have to reassess as a society because the truman show we blew past that yeah SPEAKER_423: right we we're on the other side we've all made ourselves between the cavicular and this yeah it's SPEAKER_08: crazy well it's interesting the truman show the idea was you'd have to trick somebody like we we we've captured this baby and put him inside this experiment and he has no idea his world is fake SPEAKER_69: but the way it worked out is we all put ourselves we all decided we wanted to be in the truman show and we all turned the camera on ourselves which i think even that movie didn't really see coming which is fascinating and like we're doing our ads to ourselves on the phone all day like they thought it was gonna have to be a trick but yeah i i think this idea that well if you're if you're catching SPEAKER_09: pedophiles you're doing a public service and so anything else that you do in the course of making your content is okay because well the target is the worst kind of person imaginable and that's yeah SPEAKER_87: nobody has any um sympathy for a predator but i and if you need to understand that this ends badly SPEAKER_69: right and if you say hey you shouldn't do that people are like oh what you support you support pedophiles like you're in favor of pedophiles um so i think that that's a lot of what the documentary may be more so i think the movie is more about the name of the doc it's called predators uh it's on SPEAKER_08: paramount plus right now but you can rent it you know anywhere you would rent things on vod really is that about all of the people who are doing these things yes it sort of opens with chris SPEAKER_09: hansen to catch a predator and then the whole second half of the documentary is here's the cultural impact of to catch a predator and it looks at yeah the guys like vitale and all of these creators who have sort of picked up the mantle of what chris hansen was doing and are now doing it themselves and of course cutting corners and catching people who aren't maybe pedophiles or like you know and and SPEAKER_433: then using violence and all sorts of other things that this is not a good idea because because if SPEAKER_93: people even look at to catch a predator which was i believe done with the support of local law Chamath Palihapitiya: enforcement yes and it was like the law enforcement would always be there i mean it was being produced SPEAKER_13: by yeah so there was like some there was some vetting of like as risky as this is let's do it right SPEAKER_02: correct spoiler alert um one of these people like ran went back to their house and then killed themselves and got into a standoff with the police so this is fraught with danger for everybody involved but the cops could get killed you could get killed this is not something to be done for clout or views SPEAKER_66: how any of these platforms allow it the same thing is the same thing that makes it great content great television the drama the excitement the uncertainty is also what makes it date inherently dangerous like SPEAKER_69: that's it's the same it's two sides of the same thing it's like you know like fear factor people used to complain like are those things safe or whatever like that's what makes it exciting that's what people want to watch it maybe something's going to go wrong and this person's going to get stung by scorpions and i think it's the same it's the same yeah but you don't die from a scorpion SPEAKER_05: and you got people there to like you know give you venom or whatever right um i will say like this SPEAKER_80: reminds me of alex honnold as well and i really had a problem with the netflix the free solo he's the SPEAKER_416: free solo guy alex honnold i wasn't i wasn't in favor i mean listen i understand he's got to secure SPEAKER_87: the bag this is his you mean the thing where he was climbing that tower in to in taipei recently SPEAKER_363: yeah i just thought like where are we at folks here this is turning into the running man before our SPEAKER_69: eyes running man was a you know uh arnold schwarzenegger sure it's a stephen king story and then they made it into that schwarzenegger movie and then they made one last year with glenn powell it was okay it's a horror to think that people are doing very dangerous things to get ratings SPEAKER_93: and money and you know yeah i know this is alex honnold's argument is like people do ufc fighting so why right this is a lot safer than ufc fighting this was his kind of good argument he was doing this SPEAKER_69: before he was famous that movie made him famous for it but he was yeah he's he was doing it for love SPEAKER_88: of the game not to be famous that's what alex honnold i think would say that he'd still be doing SPEAKER_05: this even a bit of a pass um in this whole thing i don't give the vitalis of the world you should not SPEAKER_00: nobody should give vitale a pass let me tell you all right great episode everybody yeah fun show fun show you went you good good turn around you started a little grumpy and then we got it all David Friedberg: worked it was a little over did you get enough sleep maybe the glps are going to put you in a SPEAKER_02: better mood you think so maybe is that are they moving i gotta tell you when you get rid of the food noise you all of a sudden open up a lot of time that was the other really big unlock for me SPEAKER_44: i didn't realize how much time i was thinking about food snacking sure and the time it took me to eat when i started eating much lighter i've recouped so much time like an hour or two a day wow came back well think about it if you're snacking you know for 15 minutes four times a day which i was that's an hour if i i was skipping a meal or just eating something light like a yogurt that recaptured another half hour and then like this constant noise oh is there food is something in SPEAKER_363: the kitchen what's in the cupboard right all that distraction it's distracting that's right but so i think i think you get back 90 minutes a day that sounds exciting all right everybody we'll see you next time bye bye