SPEAKER_00: bro how many times have you been on the pod now is this number four for you three or four no this is my uh fifth time oh wait sorry i'm not sorry sorry sorry you're sri lank and he's indian i

SPEAKER_05: know the difference we all look the same bro we all look the same it's like you're saying to the

SPEAKER_07: irish guy that's how that's how i won my seat i just had indian americans every indian american go knock on doors and say i'm roqana you know they all thought i thought the candidate came to every

SPEAKER_13: door all right besties i think that was another epic discussion people love the interviews

SPEAKER_16: i could hear him talk for hours absolutely we crush your questions in a minute we are giving people ground truth data to underwrite your own opinion what do you guys think that was fun

SPEAKER_18: i will say one of my appearance i think this is number four but one of them was on election night

SPEAKER_07: that's right and it was uh with uh uh trump uh trump's son uh uh donald trump jr that's right uh and i actually ran into him in the green room right before we were doing squawk box and he brought up the uh pod save uh interview so there you go bringing bringing the sides together

SPEAKER_22: it's been pretty amazing i think it's a good place to start how successful uh indian americans have become and a really important topic i think for us to kick off with maybe this time on your fourth appearance is uh immigration h1bs what's your take broadly on what we're seeing

SPEAKER_24: out of the trump administration on maybe trying to correct the abuse in these systems uh and maybe uh monetize them and maybe do you think that's a good strategy for correcting the abuse first of all

SPEAKER_07: there's definitely abuse uh second it definitely needs to be corrected the uh reality is that the some of the h1b visa holders are uh being paid below market wages some of them are not going to super talented individuals or in the uh jobs that actually require a lot of skill and i had a bill a bipartisan bill actually that uh would have reformed it requiring paying a prevailing wage requiring and making sure that the categories actually were skilled categories i don't love the blanket 100 000 fee i think that that's not the best way to reform it but if partly because it puts an unfair burden on startups it actually may uh hurt with that with talent but if you wanted to say look there's going to be some prevailing wage standard and we need reforms i'm open open to that do you think that

SPEAKER_29: the president is on the right direction then in actually trying to reform the system yeah i i i i think

SPEAKER_07: in terms of reforming the system he's in the right direction i don't you know i don't agree with the

SPEAKER_18: specifics of require the way he's doing it uh like many things i think sometimes he identifies the right issue and he has a solution that i i don't agree with uh but the the the reality is that it has to be reformed i mean i and anyone in silicate valley i mean you guys know this i mean it's it's been abused it's been abused by uh some of the mass uh it outsourcing firms that just uh just have people

SPEAKER_29: coming very it's been very difficult to find some of the the best young minds to work at our startups

Chamath Palihapitiya: to your point ro because it has been gamed and the people that have perfected the application process have won the h1bs and i think that that's where these systems go off the rails because it should be as you said the really talented young men and women that moved to the united states supported by an american company trying to do something ambitious it should not be because you know how to apply

SPEAKER_18: multiple times through multiple shell companies yeah i agree and as you know some of the outsourcing consulting companies i don't want to go through all the names but you know what they are tie that consulting or cognizant or others they've gamed the system and they get a a bulk of those uh h1bs and that needs to stop and there needs to be uh actual talent but i want to make a point i was just in china we had gone to a bipartisan delegation there one third of the ai talent is in china according to a lot of uh the reports and so i want some of those folks to come to the united states so we can stay ahead of of ai so there are legitimate uses of the h1b program uh and what we need to do is fix uh fix the

SPEAKER_37: program so you can have the legitimate talent still coming to silicon valley and around the nation do you

Chamath Palihapitiya: think that for that cream skimming things like national interest waivers and o1 visas and eb1s and

David Friedberg: eb5s do you think that those are sufficient to accomplish the task of that or it should be factored

SPEAKER_18: into the h1b program itself i think there needs to be an h1b program i don't i don't think the national waiver and the the other programs are uh are enough a lot of times you know look how sundar pachai came or satya came who are now leading google and microsoft they came uh they they studied here uh and then they got uh an h1b but i would also make it that you don't stay on an h1b indefinitely that we move towards a green card which by the way president trump said on your show in your one of your episodes he said i'm going to make sure that uh we actually move folks quickly uh to a green card that to me seems like a uh a win-win uh because you're then not exploiting an individual you're going to pay them the market wage uh as they have flexibility of moving uh and uh at the same time that they're going to stay in the united states instead of going back to to china or or to india by the way a lot of these companies that if you just limit h1b's they all have overseas uh a lot of the big companies have overseas headquarters so they're going to just offshore the jobs instead of bringing the

SPEAKER_29: jobs here bro one of the one of the points that jason has made really well actually consistently for

Chamath Palihapitiya: years is in order to fix the immigration system i think the first thing you have to do is rebuild trust in the immigration system fair point and one of the things that the president has done effectively now completely sealed the border and i think the stat that he said is that since january literally there have been no illegal immigrants at the southern border i'm presuming it's probably similar at the northern border as well can you just talk about that part of the immigration spectrum and what you think the positives and the negatives of what has happened over the last nine months we need a secure

SPEAKER_07: border the border uh let we let in too many people under uh the uh binding administration without uh having uh the proper uh security i think the democrats need to acknowledge that own up to that and say that we need to make sure that there are uh there is a secure border now i don't agree with trump in the way he's shut down uh basically all asylum claims and and he's just taken it to to zero and i don't agree with that approach but do i think we need it uh to do things to secure the border more i do now the question is okay he's done that i disagree with uh how he's secured it and in that he's basically

SPEAKER_18: made a solemn uh impossible but will he take some of that goodwill that he's earned in terms of the trust and do two things that i think can be bipartisan in terms of immigration reform one is an industries like agriculture food production construction for people who are here who are paying their taxes who have been undocumented for a long time give them a path to legalization by the way you want to see food prices come down that would be one way to do that in terms of uh giving those folks uh a path

SPEAKER_07: to legalization if they're here non-crip no criminal record uh and paid uh paid their taxes and i've seen him sometimes suggest that yeah he came out and said it he said we have to look at it

SPEAKER_18: right he explicitly said it i'm a democrat willing to work with him on that and the second would be on this green card thing which he said explicitly which is look people are here they if they've gotten getting a college degree we're paying for their education uh we want them here i someone comes 600 000 students come from uh 300 000 from china i'm glad by the way the president pushed back against his own base and said that those students should still come because he got a hard time uh saying that they should still come well they come here they study at stanford they study at berkeley they study at mit or harvard or at uh at a state college we're basically financing in some way their education because all these universities get federal subsidies wouldn't you want them to stay here and create the

SPEAKER_58: jobs you're an investor instead of going back to china and doing it in shanghai or beijing yeah i

SPEAKER_24: think this is part of the one of the reasons i love having you on the program roe is you take a very first principled and a logical non-partisan approach to this you just gave trump his flowers for hey good job closing the border good job identifying that 80 of americans agree with that i'm curious what's going on inside the democratic party where a large number of people can't seem to give trump any credit right for this basic win and then challenge him and say hey but this is where we have to go so how does the democratic party look at you your contemporaries when you're a moderate

SPEAKER_26: when you try to tone things down when you try to take a first principled logical approach to these

David Friedberg: issues how are you are you the skunk at the garden party just for saying that trump actually did

SPEAKER_18: something right well yeah and i'm a progressive democrat but what i am is a progressive democrat who tries to call balls and strikes and like i said i don't agree with uh all of the policies he's done to to to uh shut down the border but it would be just foolish to think that we didn't have a problem on the border that that we weren't uh didn't have too many people coming in that we didn't do enough to to uh strengthen the border i think that should have been vice president harris's answer on what she would have done differently and she could have even said i learned we we we made a mistake we didn't we didn't have the the the right uh uh approach on on border security look today i tweeted out something about how i agreed with what trump's doing on uh the prescription drug uh issue uh that uh he has a um a government website that is basically going to sell pharmaceutical drugs at a

SPEAKER_57: cheaper price now that's a policy that if bernie sanders had put forward or joe biden it's exactly

SPEAKER_65: what i was going to say but bernie sanders had put this out sorry go ahead that we'd all be cheering

SPEAKER_18: i mean it's not is it as far as i want no but it's a step in that direction so i guess my point is well why not just then say okay that's that's good or i've been very critical of uh the president's policies on the middle east and i was i've been critical of the policies of biden on the middle east but today he put for the plan that the arab countries are are saying that uh hamash should take so i tweeted out that hamash should accept this release the hostages israel should withdraw now that's because i'm rooting for america to succeed in peace in the middle east that doesn't mean that i adopt donald trump's policy but i just think we need as a party to uh to to be honest about where uh someone is is is putting forth something that we may agree with and where they're not now of course he's doing a lot of things that we could get into it that are unconstitutional and that's and he puts does antics like having uh hakim jeffries in a uh in a sombrero and and it it you can see why there is such anger he's been renting cars threatening uh to take jimmy kimmel off the air i mean threatening universities with uh with their speech so so there's reason for for the the anger but i don't think just being anti-trump is the way back for the democratic party yeah go ahead can

Chamath Palihapitiya: you just just diagnose this for us because i think we've entered a phase of politics where just it seems like decorum has been lost and underneath that is it that there's hatred or is it that there's just incredible competition now to accumulate power and win elections what do you believe is at the root cause of why people can't call balls and strikes i think it's both

SPEAKER_07: it's that uh unfortunately there has been more extremism and hate uh in in our country i mean people really uh have lost the ability to try to see uh the good in others and then to to say look we've got

SPEAKER_18: some humility we may not have all the right answers and we want to engage i think i used to say money in politics is our biggest problem now i believe hate and extremism is our biggest problem in in this country and then you're rewarded uh if you do the most outlandish things because we're in an attention economy and if you pick a fight people pay attention uh and so uh if you're kind of sober uh you're gonna lose uh support from your your own party your own base but my my hope and i i hope this for both parties that after the trump era and i think even trump supporters would acknowledge he's divisive i mean look at what he said at charlie kirk's uh funeral where erica uh kirk is this beautiful statement of uh forgiveness and he says well i can't forgive i i hate my enemies but after eight years of that i really hope that we don't devolve into both sides just hating each other more mimicking trump style of communication i hope uh whoever the republicans put forward uh will say look we want to go forward we want it's a new generation we've had three 80 year old presidents in a row in this country like we have a new generation of governors and we're going to be aspirational and we're going to talk about positive things and i hope the democrats will do that who do you think those are on the democratic side i think they're folks they're folks like uh andy beshear there's folks like wes moore you know whatever you think if the three people are going to win in november mamdani abigail spandberger and mikey sheryl you know one thing all three of those campaigns have in common they don't spend a lot of time talking about donald trump they're talking about their own vision their own ideas about what they want to do uh for their city their state for the country and the world and that's what politics should be about the politics should be about here's what my vision is here's my plan uh here's where i want to take the nation by the way bro you know i don't agree with roe on medicare for all i don't agree with him on where he thinks the tax rate should be i don't agree with him on having the state play some role in building modern factories in in ohio and this thing he calls economic patriotism i'm more libertarian i'm for deregulation he doesn't understand how you really grow the economy that's that's what we should be talking about uh instead it's just you know everyone's trying to see how they can curse in terms of being authentic as if that makes you intelligent right i mean it's it's actually just the expression of emotion without a thought and i uh i i i'm hoping that we'll have

SPEAKER_22: a more serious politics you had a really great moment on a podcast i heard you on i can't remember which one but you were saying i wonder if comedy is the precursor now being funny uh being witty on programs is like the precursor to running for president but let's let's talk about um i think

SPEAKER_24: maybe an interesting place to go would be how the technology industry how to win that back on the democratic side you had essentially the entire monopoly yeah monopoly let's call it what it is nine out of

SPEAKER_76: ten 95 out of 100 democrats we even had shermat you had shermat you had mark pinkus i mean listen even inside the cabinet besson lutnik i didn't know they're all democrats yeah all previous democrats

SPEAKER_24: including trump himself so is there a road back and then if we were just to do a little you know post-mortem on how the tech industry was kind of abandoned vilified i know for me as a moderate i'm basically up until this time have been like two out of three times i voted democrat now it's like 60 40 ish the banning of the billionaires the demonization of entrepreneurs it must have been uncomfortable for you to watch and obviously you see the entire um digerati at the white house having dinner you must be thinking to yourself my god biden could have done that at any time he could have summoned everybody and said hey come let's talk about your issues but instead the industry was vilified so if you i don't want to spend too much time on it but what's what's your diagnosis and how that happened and then how does the democratic party win back technology and leaders and billionaires i do joke

SPEAKER_85: that i think the tech industry has become the new uh new new aristocracy i look at i look at the white

SPEAKER_18: house there they are sundar tim cook and satya and all the group and then then the king of england king charles there they are or something so it's a it's a it's a it's a a group that obviously has uh a lot of stature respected i guess here was my point to the bond administration that uh they didn't agree with or they ignored i said you're you're making a mistake if you think that getting silicon valley folks uh uh on your side is about uh the money because they would always say oh biden's going to raise all this money we don't need need the valley's money i said yeah you're going to raise all the money and they did they raised tons of money kamala iris raised tons of money i said that's not what it's about it's about culture i said you you there are a lot of young people in america who

SPEAKER_57: admire these entrepreneurs who listen to all in who want to build wealth who want to build the next generation of wealth by the way all crypto is why are there so many young black and latino uh folks who care about crypto because frankly it's the closest often they're going to get to a friends and family round and technology that we've got to expand economic opportunities so they have more options but there are a lot of people who want to have a part of the digital economy who want to who look up to entrepreneurs and innovators and you basically let trump this 1980s real estate guy who was kind of passe who was wondering whether we were going to get more reruns of the apprentice and another act on on politics and you let him be the cool guy with hanging out with all these tech folks saying no i'm the future and i said that's the the the worst mistake our party has made because we've got to be the party of the future we've got to be the party of entrepreneurship and innovation

SPEAKER_88: and you can be like me a guy who says we should tax well i i'll just tell you i'll just tell you one

Chamath Palihapitiya: quick story i think i think it's not that i think it's something i think it's something more basic when when we were at that dinner yeah he asked everybody what is the biggest issue that you're dealing with and he goes around the table and he asks what is a very basic and open-ended question and i i can say this because i think it was pretty clear what happened afterwards but one of the things that was mentioned was just the overwhelming pressure that the europeans were putting on google i don't know if you remember this and the day after beyond making some calls what he did was he put a pretty meaningful pressure campaign that allowed the release valve to get released so that google had less pressure from the european regulators and less onerous terms i think that that's what it is because when you sit with him he's not selling an agenda he mostly just asks you what's going on and then he says what can i do and i think that that is a unique feature that many politicians i think have lost and listening and and and and you said an important thing which i just want to double click on because i would love your perspective on this i do believe that president trump views the lens through economic patriotism i've been largely convinced that i think that that is a very powerful way of behaving in the world you know alex carpet are all in summit referred to it in the spirit of chinese tai chi it's internal stability it's how do you make sure that you have the resources so that you have effectively infinite optionality abroad that makes sense to me so i'm just curious what is the opposite of the economic patriotism that trump offers that you've seen expressed in other countries right the chinese i think is very fair to say had their own view of economic patriotism and why is the opposite of that a better model well economic

SPEAKER_07: patriotism in my platform that's why ben and uh says uh you know watch out for this kind of guy

SPEAKER_18: i've been talking about and writing about economic patriotism for years i would say how let me talk about why it's different uh from from where trump is and and it gets to partly your point i i i think fine he listens but he's not listening uh enough uh to people saying well the tariff policy is not going to get a get us to uh economic development he's not listening enough in my view to people who are saying that you can't just take a sledgehammer to universities and research that that's not going to help build the economy of this country uh he's not listening enough uh to people who are saying don't don't just have all this vetting and uh for international students and and don't don't insult immigrants coming to the united states that we do need immigrants now i i agree that he gave some of those answers and and and all in but overall uh there hasn't been the same understanding and case for the role of immigrants in the community what i believe is we need a marshall plan for america and i wish that we had a white house economic council i did this bill with marco rubio that actually looks at johnstown that looks at warren ohio that looks at milwaukee and it says not only advanced manufacturing we we should put tech jobs there ai academies their health care and let's have an economic renaissance in this country and bring the country together and that to me uh we should be arguing in the parties of how we do that uh and i have a different view on some of the policies i articulated but that should be the goal if you look at bro if you look if you look at promoting that

Chamath Palihapitiya: economic exceptionalism there are a bunch of categories where i think the policy has diverged pretty meaningfully and paradoxically the most obvious example is around ai where we've gone from a much more regimented stage-gated way of seeing the world and under president trump and our bestie david sachs we've gone into a much more open mandate that acknowledges we're in a very tough competition with an extremely talented chinese competitor what's your view on some of these groundbreaking areas of tech how do we think about protection versus how do we think about proliferation well that's a big

SPEAKER_07: question and uh first we start by saying i i believe ai is going to do more good than bad in the world i mean i know that's a simple statement but there are many people who may not agree with that uh the the the advances it can make in uh human disease and diagnosis of human disease the advances it can make in uh education curriculum for young people the advances they can make in production you know one of the places we uh went to in in uh beijing was uh xiaomi the the the factory that makes uh these phones and i was

SPEAKER_18: stunned i mean xiaomi is a yeah i mean i was stunned it's like the ai has these machines that are basically putting together the the the the phone i mean it's a model of the iphone to your point we had

Chamath Palihapitiya: josai who is the chairman of alibaba at the summit the most incredible thing that josai said is that by government edict essentially they've mandated that 95 of all government institutions need to be running on ai by 2030 where and you and i both know in any western country if such an edict or something happened you'd kind of just say let's just discount this essentially to zero maybe maybe it's like pr fluff but you know i don't know jason what you thought but i was sitting there thinking well the only country that can probably pull this off is the chinese because if you say saudi yeah uae top down you can you can yeah mandate it yeah so to your point ro like we're going to have an incredibly formidable competitor and so in some ways like the infighting and the rancor just needs to get dialed down otherwise we're going to miss the conditions on the field and you know just to maybe pivot to this you're on the verge of a shutdown can you walk us through the inside baseball of what's happened over the last few days where we are what the sticking point is and what you think

SPEAKER_103: the odds are that that this thing will get resolved and what happens if there's a shutdown can you just

SPEAKER_07: walk us through all of that sure just two two points on on on ai though we do need to think about the job displacement and what we what we can do as a country i i believe the federal government has to step in uh for young people in particular to say look you can work for a few years if you can't find a private sector job and helping on child care elder care your communities health care government services maybe we make ai so that the dmv works better and and you know people start to think that

SPEAKER_18: the the government services actually are effective but i i think there has to be a lot of thought put in uh to the displacement and being a ahead of the uh ahead of the curve the only thing i'd say about china is while they're formidable the one statistic that made me think we've got a lot of things right here that they haven't 20 youth unemployment in china and that's because there are all these college

SPEAKER_07: graduates they don't want to work at uh on a factory line uh and i i tease let nick about screws on the iphone or something you know a lot of college graduates they didn't they didn't want to do that

SPEAKER_18: in china and uh at the same time not everyone is going to be like making evs and so in our country you do a lot of what the chinese would say silly things like you make dating apps and you make comedy apps and you make sports apps and you do a lot of other things and they don't have that and i think the that gives us a huge advantage uh in terms of the creativity and the in the culture if we can get the basics right now the government shut down the the fight first is over something that i'm biased but i fundamentally believe is is a basic principle which is if congress passes something like the president has to spend what congress passes it's it's not discretionary you know federman said

SPEAKER_57: elections matter well the elections to congress matter too and you can't you may you may just want

SPEAKER_103: to explain to the audience because i'm not sure all of us are up to speed on exactly the thing that

SPEAKER_18: that so trump said this view that okay spending is too high these agencies are wasting money uh i'm gonna come in and i'm gonna make certain decisions about cutting spending that that congress may have appropriated he did this on foreign aid he's done it on some of the things with the department of education we can go through other programs uh i got into an argument with with elon when he was there i originally said look i'm open to working uh with doge if there are reasonable things that we can save but you got to do it through a process and they have a view their view is well congress are never going to do this so we're just going to go there and we're going to do it and uh that's not the way the constitution works and so you can't expect democrats to say okay we're going to give you our votes for a budget if it's all discretionary and trump can do whatever he wants anyway with the budget and that's that's the basic uh fault line the second argument is over over health care uh this is just factual if the tax credits expire on the exchange people were paying about seven thousand dollars on the exchange would go up to about twenty one thousand dollars i mean you'd basically be kicking off a ton of people on the exchange off the exchanges uh and democrats just can't do that now you can say well uh you lost the election then i have no problem getting rid of the filibuster and the republicans have the votes in the senate and the house and the press trump and they can uh they can pass pass the budget but my my hope is that they will realize that these tax credits are worth saving that they're not going to want people kicked off health care and they're not going to want these premiums going up high and that will be the deal bro the argument on the other

Chamath Palihapitiya: side yeah says that the the tax credits and the health care subsidies will largely go to folks that are here illegally can you confirm or debunk that first of all it's a it's a very small

SPEAKER_07: uh portion of people uh that we're talking about so 90 percent uh is not uh anything to do with those who are undocumented that's just the math right i mean so we can argue about the 10 but we have in

SPEAKER_18: this country something called uh emergency medicaid what does that mean if you're undocumented and you show up to the hospital we will take care of you i believe that is correct i don't think if you're undocumented and you show up to a hospital that you should be denied care well who pays for that we have an emergency medicaid program and i guess if you mean that when you fund medicaid when you fund the affordable uh care act that uh you're saying you're funding some of it for undocumented people who are showing up in uh in emergency situations then yeah you're you're funding that uh but my view of it is that let's be honest that that's not where the big money and the budgets are you're talking about a small group of folks you can argue the cultural point about it uh but don't uh don't

Chamath Palihapitiya: make that the numbers so so for the average person watching listening what technically happens if

SPEAKER_103: there's a shutdown like what happens to their everyday lives well first of all it's a it's bad for some

SPEAKER_18: of the public servants right but will the capital police will police officers get paid will uh will

SPEAKER_07: military get paid will people if they have a family member who is in government service will they get paid and they just may as americans or family members care about that or you're gonna have people without pay second there will be some services that will start getting cut right like they're flying a plane you may not notice it for a few days but then after a few weeks you're saying oh they have less government uh less flights because we don't have enough people showing up or staffing at the

SPEAKER_48: airports and uh some of the parks may shut down uh things that involve the government that aren't national security uh urgent are going to get affected let's um talk a little bit about the censorship

SPEAKER_74: issue this has come up multiple times it's a culture issue for sure but why are both sides so

SPEAKER_24: obsessed with this and how do we get this uh resolve between both sides and then there's another both sides issue which is political speech that's violent fight like hell trump is hitler the stuff that i

SPEAKER_128: don't hear you saying but that we steven miller is a fascist steven miller saying gavin news

SPEAKER_133: said the other day yeah tweeted it out he's he's gone full trump in terms of the dueling i i wouldn't i wouldn't call it full trump i would just say it was just really it was really over the line each

SPEAKER_18: other yeah yeah i mean look there's a way to to to argue i've gone back and forth with stephen miller and and he we we have exchanges i'm going back and forth with vice president vance i mean sometimes i think some of it is intemper but the point is it's within a balance you're not he he's not uh saying you

SPEAKER_07: know uh uh deport roe uh and i'm not uh uh using the words of uh hitler or or other things in in in talking about him i mean you can have spirited debate uh in a way that uh isn't pollyannish uh is tough but respects certain norms that the other person uh is a person of intelligence uh whose views

SPEAKER_24: you disagree with is there no leadership though roe like where when you're in dc people come together and say you know what the people who have the most to lose here are us so it's in our best interest in terms of self-preservation for all of us to just speak in a more kind civil way to each other because

SPEAKER_22: there are a large number of mentally ill people out there i believe that's like at the core of this is mentally ill people hear different things when you say fight like hell or this person's hitler etc

Chamath Palihapitiya: and they may act on it and hi can i can i say something i think this is an important point but i want to just push back on that it's too simple to sweep it under the rug as a mental illness issue like when you have somebody get assassinated where the bullet says hey catch this fascist and then less than 10 or 12 days later you have one of the if not the most visible leaders of the democratic party in all caps screaming on x stephen miller is a fascist i think that that's just irresponsible i think we can all admit that that is irresponsible and that i think what happens is as rose said the extremes have been amplified in an attention economy but i think it's too simple to say that they have something that can just be swept under the rug i think that this is a chronic issue

SPEAKER_140: and uh you can both sides it you know when trump said go fight like hell and they went and beat police

SPEAKER_24: officers you know at the capitol i don't know if you were there roan what that was like it was you were there and like it's pretty scary and that thing could have gotten out of hand and the oath keepers and antifa these are both radical organizations that will murder people that will beat police they're they're very disturbed individuals in both of these groups so i think you can both sides and every time we see one of these crazy people these extreme people it's it's really the same profile it's it's white men who are disconnected from reality so i don't know how a sane person drives into a church kills people and lights it on fire like we saw the other day jason i understand

Chamath Palihapitiya: but i'm saying there there's a broad group of people that are committing these actions that are not just deranged they're being incited they're being programmed they're being pulled into behaving in ways

SPEAKER_101: that if they had other things other attachments they may not necessarily have done i would agree with

SPEAKER_24: that if there was religion and family and they weren't shut in and playing video games i agree

SPEAKER_17: no no it's good i feel like i'm in like a uh the therapy session with an old married couple

SPEAKER_149: this is the whole point of the podcast this is great the poker table and great here you are at the

SPEAKER_18: table tell us your take here's my view obviously it's that that kind of extreme rhetoric is leading uh in cases of political violence but it's more than that right it's not just the charlie kirk assassination or january 6th or the attack on pelosi's home it's also making us hate each other as americans it's making us incapable of coming together to say you know what i agree with donald trump what's the selling pharmaceutical drugs at a cheap price because that's the direction that bernie sanders would go like we can't we're not able to do that why because we've created such uh anger and extremism and uh tribalism in in our politics and the reality is right now you're rewarded for it uh if you grab the attention and you show that you've kind of got vengeance on the other side your poll numbers go up in within your own uh base uh your uh you'll get more contributions i mean we just need to speak plainly about some of the incentives and if the election was in november of 2025 uh the next presidential election i think both sides would end up nominating the the side that's going to take it to to the other one the the own the libs from the republicans and you know fight fire with fire with everything and own the maga folks from from the democrats i am hoping i don't know if that's true i'm hoping that people will see that this is a spiral downwards that fire that fighting fire with fire leaves ashes for everyone that's what emmanuel cleaver says and that we've got to find a different way of of moving forward uh by the way even people

SPEAKER_57: who agree with trump on policies there have been a lot of presidents in our country's history fdr ronald reagan bill clinton obama not all of them were divisive there's one guy who did that my view is personal american politics disdains a copycat you're probably not going to be successful

SPEAKER_155: just mimicking him and secondly why wouldn't you return why wouldn't you want this country to return to the aspirational inspirational politics whether your choice is my sense is you're right rowe i think

SPEAKER_140: people are going to get burned out on it so the the other two issues i wanted to to hear from you on is

SPEAKER_24: the the censorship one and then the lawfare one it was pretty clear that of the six or seven cases that were done against trump during his time off and the biden administration was in you know we're we're reaching right and maybe we're lawfare would be fair to say we're lawfare-esque and now you're having the exact same thing trump doing with comey where he's firing the attorney general in that district putting a new one in so i'm wondering how you think about the censorship wars going back and forth and then now the lawfare ones because we as moderates and i think moderates are the ones who are swinging these elections right now you guys are we're getting very tired of it i am exhausted with the fact that neither side will stand down on censorship or on the lawfare what are your thoughts well on

SPEAKER_18: censorship i have a particularly strong record when people say what makes you a different kind of democrat i say free speech and all these people who got uh outraged when jimmy kimmel was pulled down were silent uh often when twitter was censoring uh the new york post with uh hunter biden's laptop stories and as you may remember you've been very consistent my email leaked uh where i said that no you shouldn't be pulling down that story and you shouldn't be uh having the new york post uh take that down and then i got criticized from my own side even though i'm one of the strongest defenders of trans rights and we may have disagreements over my stances because i said that comedian who was arrested at heathrow airport for a transphobic post should not be arrested that that you should not be arrested for that i got criticized from from the left so my point is then when i speak out and say okay jimmy kimmel shouldn't be pulled down and we shouldn't be canceling speech or going after left-wing groups there's at least some credibility because i'm willing uh to say look our side is engaged in that kind of censorship as well and it's wrong when either side has it and i think our side would have a lot more credibility in going after trump even if they didn't do it back then if we just acknowledged

SPEAKER_57: that we've got this speech problem on our side it's easy to be for free speech when it's speech you like like kimmel it's hard to be for free speech the test does not will you stand up for it when you like it it's will you stand up for it when you don't like it and that's okay now do that's fair

SPEAKER_128: because this is you know i didn't like it when they did it to trump there did seem to be like some

SPEAKER_24: situations where he was provocative or did some things that you know on the margins could have gotten you a ticket let's say but then you have you know these big judgments against him that i don't think would have been brought if he wasn't running for president again or they didn't want him to run for president again and now we have the same thing happen with comey and they're literally picking the attorney generals and firing them and putting people in who've never actually even been in front of a grand jury just to get this you know revenge and so it's it's a pretty dark time i think on the

SPEAKER_155: law front what do you think yeah look i i don't want to relitigate uh trump's uh action i do think

SPEAKER_07: he did certain things like january 6 others that were blatantly uh illegal and and unconstitutional but i will say this that whoever going forward for the party should be make a firm commitment that uh

SPEAKER_18: they're going to follow the law and not engage in vengeance and not engage in retribution uh and it's sad to me that that that we've gotten to the state i i understand trump feels like okay he won a second term he was uh spared from assassination he had everyone against him and and he's going to get the people who he he feels he was wronged by but it's a it's a horrible thing uh for the country and we've got to we've got to make make it clear that that we're going to move past this chapter not that okay now we're going to uh democrats are going to come in and we're going to go after uh everyone on their side i mean then we're no different than any other country jumping off tangentially from lawfare let's

David Friedberg: talk about crime for a second you know you described your self-described progressive democrat

Chamath Palihapitiya: one of the themes around that is social justice reform and you're seeing some of the implications of that the the abuse of no bail the abuses by da's who are letting umpteen repeat offenders out on the street you're now seeing how that manifests in crime right everything from this this young woman from ukraine who was brutally murdered to this young woman the 22 year old who who's killed as part of a home invasion her her father gave this gripping testimony a few days ago where are the democrats on this idea of keeping the streets safe and law and order through the lens of the social justice reforms

SPEAKER_64: you believe in as a progressive so one of the things i say is that uh my district and i don't say this to

SPEAKER_07: brag i just say this to make a point my district is actually one of the safest in america right when you look at fremont uh cupertino sunnyville santa clara and san jose they're all in the top 25 safe cities and i say that's correlated with the fact that we have five trillion dollar companies apple google nvidia tesla and broadcom you wouldn't have the economic prosperity of silicon valley if you didn't have the safety of silicon valley because you wouldn't have executives living there you wouldn't have families living there you wouldn't have people uh wanting to participate in the economy so safety is essential if you believe in creating economic opportunity and economic mobility and i think that there is a group of pragmatic mayors now dan lorry i would say in san francisco matt mahon in san jose raj salwan in fremont who recognized that the pendulum had swung too far that uh you know i supported that ballot initiative that was on the ballot last last election that said you know if you if you are committing multiple crimes of uh smashing into walgreens then you're gonna be charged that you can't just

SPEAKER_18: say okay yeah we can keep smashing into walgreens committing taking under a thousand dollars and it's okay uh i don't view that as being not progressive i mean progressives i thought the whole point is you

SPEAKER_57: believe in the rule of law now if you say yeah you shouldn't lock someone up for the rest of their life or a mandatory minimums fine but that doesn't mean you excuse behavior that is how does how does a

Chamath Palihapitiya: 14 time federal and you know never end up being held accountable and then is on the streets and then

SPEAKER_96: just savagely murder somebody yeah no it's a it's totally how does that happen i mean it's totally

SPEAKER_118: unacceptable totally understand what it happened with that ukraine i don't remember all the details but i

SPEAKER_18: think it happened with that ukrainian girl it happened with this indian american who was beheaded in uh texas where the that's right the person had all these arrests uh and you know what the the interesting thing is i spoke out about about those and i didn't get that much pushback from a liberal base so i don't what i don't understand is where the the pressure is coming from from just saying look we got to be common sense in this country now i don't think the answer to that is you know put federal troops like trump is but what the democrats should realize in my view is like is that why is the country letting him do that which we which i don't think is constitutional or the right right solution because

SPEAKER_57: they're so frustrated with what's going on and just citing statistics you know going out there and

SPEAKER_24: saying well the statistics are down yeah it doesn't match people's reality that people are smart and you know i think this is really a stupid strategy by the democrats if trump says i'm going to send in the national guard because you guys haven't done the job the obvious kung fu move to redirect that energy and say yes here are the five places these are hot spots where we need those troops if you can put these troops on these five corners on turk street on sixth street that's where we need them and how long can we get them for before you move them to the next hot spots that would totally just take away what is an obvious play by the republican party to make the democrats fall for the trap of we're pro-crime we don't care about people's safety which by the way is the sh it's just so dumb it's insane it's so dumb like why are democrats in this respect from these specific cities los angeles new york

SPEAKER_85: chicago san francisco why are they so dumb well these are hard cities to govern i mean it's it's so dumb

SPEAKER_18: they're not they're hard but bro and i i disagree you know because i'm always honest i disagree with you on on the national guard coming there but i do i disagree i agree with you by the way that

SPEAKER_24: it's not constitutional but in a situation where people are suffering day in and day out what

SPEAKER_26: happened in washington dc when they put those people when they brought in the national guard

Chamath Palihapitiya: which i think everybody said i love jason jason with all i think this comes down to leadership when you look at these big cities there are examples of when they have been governed well and it takes a point of view and the balls to just say this is how it's going to be the last best example of this is mike bloomberg in new york yeah i remember the first thing the first thing mike did

SPEAKER_01: was he said soda out second thing he did smoking done it completely changed the way the world works if you guys remember you used to go to bars everywhere yeah and you would smoke incessantly and

Chamath Palihapitiya: even if you didn't smoke you were subject to all this disgusting secondhand smoke but when mike did that one thing it cascaded throughout the world and bratt takes leadership for it bratton did crime

SPEAKER_22: stat under giuliani but anyway wrote explain to us what what the right solution here is i think

SPEAKER_118: bloomberg bloomberg had a good record i think matt look at what matt mahan and dan lori are doing

SPEAKER_18: closer to home i mean they're saying look we need more police we need to uh understand that uh if people have mental health issues and that they're not getting off the street again and again and again that you can go uh to a court and say like they need treatment that that we need uh to be a funding uh more uh temporary housing not just permanent housing because yeah we want permanent housing long term but that doesn't mean in the meantime we do uh we do nothing and you know so i i i think that they're they are pragmatic uh they would they've acknowledged it's a problem and uh and they're working at it what i what i don't think works is just denying people's feelings because partly it's like when i was growing up in bucks county pennsylvania we used to leave our house doors uh unlocked unlocked and that's the lived memory of a lot of people and you know the problem of doing denying it is if you embrace trump's whole thing is look life used to be simpler in the 1960s and you could leave your doors unlocked uh you had a good job you worked in a manufacturing place you you supported your family and you know what if you don't want to move backwards because there's a lot of social progress we've made there's a lot of great parts to our our diversity and people from around the planet here

SPEAKER_155: that we've got to make sure that everyone buys into the future and safety is first in that stay on

Chamath Palihapitiya: this local theme for a second tell us about mum donnie what is he you know it's it's 10 billion dollars for you know bodegas it's billions of dollars for this it's billions of dollars for that i think i heard recently he wants to charge a two percent tax on people above a certain salary he wants to charge any company that does business in new york city an extra tax what what yeah and how does

SPEAKER_194: he come out of nowhere and just run the table on the establishment well i'll tell you i'll tell you

SPEAKER_155: tell you why and i you know i've campaigned in candor for three candidates uh when the elections or i

SPEAKER_18: haven't campaigned a campaign for abigail spanberger who's going to win in virginia mikey cheryl and i've

SPEAKER_07: supported uh mamdani because of the movement he's had i think mamdani's success was based on two things one uh the the recognition that new york city was unaffordable and just speaking about that

SPEAKER_18: unaffordability so there's certain things which are pretty practical like most people don't pay for

SPEAKER_07: the buses anyway they're on the buses without uh paying the the ticket and if he wants to make the buses free uh that that's a a reasonable policy but he was basically saying well you can't afford

SPEAKER_18: to live in new york and none of the other candidates really spoke about that they were speaking about crime and public safety and they weren't talking about uh the economy and the other thing is uh and

SPEAKER_07: you know i have a uh differences on him on on on on on the middle east i'm for a two-state solution and i've condemned globalized the intifada but he was saying look there are too many people that are being killed in in gaza and netanyahu's policies are wrong and and that resonated with people in in

SPEAKER_18: new york city and so the challenge for our party is how do we uh recognize the is he is he the is he

Chamath Palihapitiya: the candidate of giveaways or is he the candidate of where we realistically need to be in order to

SPEAKER_18: have stability i think he's a candidate that is sounding the five alarm fire on affordability and the loss of the american dream how he governs is i think going to be a challenge and i hope that he he's a very talented guy i hope he says okay look i'm going to sit down as i am with business leaders

SPEAKER_07: and uh other leaders and say help me achieve my goals like okay i want to have a rent freeze on the apartments that are controlled by new york but i also want to make sure we're doubling housing construction and building new housing and how do we do that i want to make sure that if i am increasing taxes that that there's not capital flight from new york city what happens if he which

SPEAKER_24: is pretty clear if after winning he's a complete utter disaster in how he runs that city what does

SPEAKER_18: that do to the democratic party i don't think he will be but that would hurt us right i mean i i don't think he can have a a record uh that is a that's a failure i think he has in fact a lot of the progressives are are invested in him succeeding and making sure that he has a as a pragmatic uh success record but look i i think you would people who just want to say well we should just reject mondani etc they they're not understanding the the amount of people that he speaks for in the

SPEAKER_155: democratic party who feel like we need to tackle the economic inequality he speaks young people

SPEAKER_22: he's clearly hit a note on those issues and then the question is can he execute i remember when dinkets came into office that was when we bottomed out in new york i was a teenager and then that's

SPEAKER_24: when we got giuliani bloomberg back to back and we cleaned up the city i get dinkins vibes if he

SPEAKER_22: doesn't you know actually take on the the safety of the issue in addition to these other issues um man

Chamath Palihapitiya: ro as we wrap just one last question which is there's a movement afoot to ban stock trading by people in congress and you've been supportive of that and then i think that we saw something recently that said i don't even know if you know this but somebody that manages your money has traded like 30 000 times uh or something in some number do you want to just address what that is and where

SPEAKER_103: you stand on banning stock trading and whether it's just simpler to move everybody to etfs and

SPEAKER_07: just call this a day i am totally for uh a stock trading ban i've led on that i don't trade stocks my wife's money was inherited uh in trust that i'm no say or no control over and it's in a trust and the trust act would require actually every person to be uh in a trust and uh that eliminates conflict

SPEAKER_205: so i've been very consistent about it and i've been one of the leaders on actually a ban on stocks

SPEAKER_178: so what do you got what tip any tips for us what do you know did you know did you know that somebody

SPEAKER_01: somebody related to this trading 30 000 times a year i have no idea it's like a it's like a citadel

SPEAKER_210: inside of roll comedy i don't know if you know this but it's nothing to do with it right it's not my

SPEAKER_07: money it's not i mean i have no and frankly i have no uh no no uh involvement in it and so that's

SPEAKER_213: it's tiny amounts too that's really interesting like it's um small trades lots of small trades anyway whoever's working for you just seems to be doing a good job for you not not for me working for the family uh listen rokhana uh voice of reason moderate honest and uh just

Chamath Palihapitiya: really excited for you to run for president bro last last question actually last question there's

SPEAKER_109: still a pretty open field for california governor have you thought about it and um if not why not

SPEAKER_18: no uh because a lot of you know i think you've got to really have spent some time in in in

SPEAKER_07: sacramento to to deal with those issues and a lot of my issues have been how do we build economic prosperity in parts of the country that have been left out how do we uh deal with our competitiveness with china and other nations i'm on the china select committee i'm on the house armed services committee i've been focused on economic patriotism and i don't think you just run for a title and so the type of person who should run is one who's going to focus on getting our utility costs down in california who's going to focus on making our streets safer who's going to focus uh on building more housing and being a yimby and saying uh that that we need to to do these things and so i think there will be good candidates emerging with those skills in california bro thank you thank you

SPEAKER_216: thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you jason thank you sir