SPEAKER_00: we had a nice dinner chamath hosted a little uh and we played a little bit of the cards and there's this new kid there oh big shout out to co-founder is there great guy how do you wind up here at the

SPEAKER_02: game and sitting here you know having a beautiful dinner with us and he's like well and then chamath

SPEAKER_03: goes and he points to helmuth helmuth found a billionaire when helmuth finds a billionaire

SPEAKER_05: what happens he's tied to the hip he has like a billionaire he's a billionaire wrangler

SPEAKER_06: helmuth is like one of those truffle dogs in like you know alba in italy you know you send him out into the woods he forages around he finds he finds a truffle just digs it out and that's it it's like

SPEAKER_09: he and then he follows like a dog he follows tail wagging tail lighting waiting for his owner to show

SPEAKER_11: up and pick this little billionaire off the ground hey here's another one look daddy see i found

SPEAKER_14: another billionaire helmuth helmuth is the most insecure person but he's such a beautiful human being i mean it's a great human it's like it's like the tale of two people he's he really is a walking case of

SPEAKER_18: schizophrenia and narcissism just i mean that's jama saying that hey everybody hey everybody welcome to

SPEAKER_32: another episode of the all in podcast with us again the new chairman and majority shareholder of laura

SPEAKER_33: piana chamath palihapitiya and the viceroy of veganism do you like my thin cashmere gilet that i'm

SPEAKER_34: wearing gilet gilet do you mean polo no gilet gilet okay magnifique uh also with us the viceroy of

SPEAKER_32: veganism the sultan of science david friedberg and the regent of the right wing

SPEAKER_33: david sachs the viceroy of vegans wow the viceroy of vegans it came to me in the shower today i was

SPEAKER_38: like you know he needs a new one i switched my background guys do you like it i just flipped the camera to look the other way just to mix it up now we can see your chef picking the vegetables

SPEAKER_39: in your garden well yeah well before you used to see him pick the herbs yeah the herbs are on this

SPEAKER_40: side but now he's yeah you can see him pick the veggies yeah oh yeah oh there's the sous chef

SPEAKER_43: okay there's the prep chef and there's that chef okay yes everybody showed up today okay great

SPEAKER_45: you know you seem to enjoy the food jason every time you come you talk all this but you are always eating

SPEAKER_47: when you're at my house you're always eating who's the first rsvp after he's eating he's sending his

SPEAKER_49: notes to the kitchen could you just do this a little differently i do give notes i do i do usually

SPEAKER_51: positive ones it's like three out of four are positive notes you know when i flew with chamath a

SPEAKER_53: few weeks ago the chef made gluten-free nutella crepes with homemade nutella i mean it was like the

SPEAKER_56: most extraordinary breakfast experience that nutella has no sugar it's incredible it's basically all

Chamath Palihapitiya: protein fat and it's sweetened with monk flour sugar

SPEAKER_63: it's so delicious that they also kill some albino seals i've not brought a chef on on the plane with me but i think in fairness your plane's not that big yeah i mean you've got a small plane kitchen

SPEAKER_32: i don't know if a cessna 142 can fit a chef i'm feeling plane shamed

SPEAKER_77: i just uh got to uh business select on southwest so i'm feeling pretty good about myself right now all right everybody let's get started a lot of topics people want to talk about do you want to start with rogan or the canadian truckers i think rogan probably leads into the truckers no it might in fact lead into the truckers okay so uh we covered rogan and spotify in episode 66 a whole bunch since that time uh a video surfaced on saturday uh with joe rogan repeatedly saying uh well the n-word and uh it's um pretty rough to watch and he uh did a mia copa an apology and overall now spotify has taken down 70 episodes of his podcast you know that's out of over a thousand i thought it was like 113

SPEAKER_61: that's the that's the that's what i saw on twitter there's 113 to maybe 70 had the n-word but 113 yes you're correct i i stand corrected 110 have been taken down i was texting with sacks it's like it's like almost six percent of all of his episodes they took down yeah so something like that yeah but

SPEAKER_86: not not all of them were because of that language no that's what i'm saying but six percent were taken

SPEAKER_77: down six percent taken down in his apology he said uh obviously he was wrong uh to use that word for the use it towards a person as a slur but was talking about it more uh in studying or discussing the n-word

SPEAKER_91: versus mention is that right is that the distinction yeah or use versus quoting yeah so he said it was

SPEAKER_77: taken out of context apologized um he also made a uh joke that he immediately said oh my god that's

SPEAKER_93: pretty racist i shouldn't have told that joke where he uh compared uh going to see planet of the apes in an all-black theater in philly saying he was in africa on sunday daniel x sent a memo to spotify employees claiming he is not the publisher of the joe rogan show something i completely dispute we'll talk about that in a moment thoughts on the latest brouhaha and do we think that spotify will be able to handle uh this what seeming it seems to have died down over the last couple of days uh and rogan is now joking about it in his comedy uh you know engagements at small comedy clubs what do you think sax

SPEAKER_94: is joe rogan gonna weather the storm is spotify gonna stick with him well okay so as of the last

SPEAKER_96: episode of the all-in pod uh they were trying to cancel rogan for misinformation and for the reasons we discussed that basically failed because you know so many of the times something starts with misinformation

SPEAKER_49: eventually becomes the truth rogan seemed like a guy who actually just wants to present both sides present a balanced viewpoint in any event that whole attempt to cancel and base misinformation was fizzling out and then lo and behold this 22 second clip comes out and they escalate the charges to racism if you kind of look at um you know who's behind this clip it's pretty clear that it was a democratic super pack put this together and sort of astroturfed it as a viral video this is part of an organized attempt to cancel rogan now as to the merits of the the sort of racism accusation against him i mean look let me say that i don't think any body especially a public figure should be using this kind of language um you know in this day and age even if you're just sort of quoting something or mentioning it you know he he should have he should he should have known better um however there are also similar clips that are now circulating of joe biden doing the same thing using this type of like incredibly incendiary language in like a brazen almost off-handed way you've got clips of howard

SPEAKER_99: stern wait you're saying brazen and he said it exactly the same way as joe i would say maybe in

SPEAKER_49: a cavalier way he's he's but let me come back so you have you have biden doing it you've got howard stern doing it um so what is the difference i mean the the reality here is that uh we used to in our culture have a distinction between the use of this type of language as an epithet which was never okay uh or using it um you were referencing it you might have been quoting it you might have been quoting a rap song you might have been quoting a dave chapelle routine you might be reading from a book you might have been telling a story in which somebody else has said it and you're merely trying to relay what happened the rules today are that's not an excuse you can't say it but the truth is that 10 years ago 20 years ago the rules were a little different that's why biden said it that's why howard stern has these episodes and i think it's why rogan had said it and i think it's a little bit disingenuous uh for people to now try and apply the new rules to this old language and they're doing it very selectively because they're not trying to cancel these other people who said these things under the old rules they're trying to cancel rogan so i think what you're seeing here is selective cancellation outrage selective application of these new language rules for the purpose of getting rogan canceled why for the same reasons we were talking about two weeks ago or last week which is he's an outsider he's an independent voice he bucks the establishment he doesn't present the orthodox view on covet and that's frankly why they want to cancel him friedberg i'm just looking at the

SPEAKER_101: howard stern quote so in 1993 howard stern um dressed in blackface and used the n-word in a skit he did uh mimicking ted danson talking about whoopie goldberg something and he said i'll be the first to admit i won't go back and watch those old shows it's like who is that guy but that was my shtick it's what i did and i own it i don't think i got embraced by nazi groups and hate groups they seem to

SPEAKER_56: think i was against them too so i think you know sax is probably right i mean howard stern's a very different character today you know i think the question of if howard stern acted that way today would cancel culture kind of mob him the answer is probably yes um but i think it's because uh you know rogan is out here probably picking a bone with everyone you know he's kind of there's there's no alignment there's no there's no tribal uh behavior with rogan right he doesn't he he's been pretty public about being very liberal he's been very public about being conservative in some ways and i don't think he kind of aligns himself strongly with anyone and so he's a threat to everyone he's got a huge following and you know he speaks openly and honestly in a way that that is threatening uh certainly his behavior was inexcusable and has been inexcusable but there are others right and so it's it's a it's an important question which is why him why now it's also interesting with that ted

SPEAKER_104: danson he was dating whoopie goldberg at the time i believe and ted danson was there was a roast of whoopie goldberg at the friars club ted danson dressed in blackface i think which whoopie

SPEAKER_109: goldberg was it or ted danson dressed didn't howard dress and then howard did a send up of that yeah

SPEAKER_02: anyway the point is the more the the standard has changed significantly let's let chamath chime in

SPEAKER_87: my book of the year last year was this book wanting by this uh author luke burgess um he wrote

SPEAKER_81: something on substack um i'll i'll send you guys a link you can put it in here but he said he said the following he said as we regress to a superstitious quasi-pagan world of witch burning civil discourse will be replaced with superstition and scapegoating um and he was talking about rogan i

SPEAKER_117: think that the the thing that i was the most proud of in this whole thing uh was danielek

SPEAKER_81: i mean disclosure he's a friend of mine so maybe this is biased however i think that spotify had business principles um and this was similar to what brian armstrong did at coinbase i think they stuck to those principles they made a well-reasoned decision that they explained to their uh employees and shareholders and then they did the most important thing that sax has always been

SPEAKER_117: saying around free speech which was which is more speech and so what spotify said when they explained

SPEAKER_81: the decision to not de-platform joe rogan was that they would take the exact equivalent economic value of what they were paying them him a hundred million dollars and invested in underrepresented historically

SPEAKER_117: underrepresented groups to tell their stories to tell you know to make their music etc and so effectively doubling you know the universe of that kind of content and so i think if if people are really willing to listen i think what we should take away from this is here's a really clear-eyed example of the solution to free speech which is just to get more of it on your platform to have the right disclosures and disclaimers and then for you know people to go along with their lives so that they can then choose and i think that that's um that was the that was the one positive outcome that that i saw from this entire episode the rest of it was uh another attempt at you know uh being morally absolutist and

SPEAKER_81: you know scapegoating and then the uh that was before obviously the the n-word thing and then the n-word thing just brought to light that we live in a very different age where the rules have changed and

SPEAKER_117: i think the open question is um you know if you're going to judge people for past behaviors on current rules are we allowed to do it selectively or does it apply to everybody and i and i think that you

SPEAKER_87: know this is why i think you know we saw people like david simon you know came out and david simon was very um you know basically excoriated joe rogan but then david simon wrote the wire you know and if you if you watch the wire which is a you know an incredible piece of television that people point to all the time is one of probably the greatest shows on television you know every probably you

SPEAKER_104: know 13th or 14th word was the n-word yeah i have like two observations here and then i'll get to you sax and i have something you want to chime in on i i always like to think

SPEAKER_02: about intent and then i like to look at the apology and think is this like sincere or not and when you look at the intent does anybody actually think joe rogan is a racist and i think it's pretty clear he's not from all of the behavior collectively in his life and then you look at the apology i thought i felt it was incredibly sincere uh and there were many learning moments in it and he's a comedian which is kind of this other space where we we ask comedians to make us laugh and make us feel uncomfortable and now we're also asking them to live by a standard that changes every year and and words come on and off the uh allowable list would anybody here does anybody here actually think or anybody listening to me think joe rogan is actually racist i i think the answer is i don't think anybody thinks that and then number two i i felt the apology was incredibly thoughtful um and well done sax what are your

SPEAKER_96: thoughts yeah i mean i agree i agree with those things um nobody was accusing joe rogan of racism

SPEAKER_134: until the cancellation mob started throwing stones and the misinformation stones didn't work so then they

Chamath Palihapitiya: escalated to racism i think the generalized thing is just take take the context out of rogan for a second i think that the the formula if i can point to this of cancel culture is now i think pretty well

SPEAKER_81: understood which is um if you don't like somebody you need to throw some ism label on them until that ism label sticks and eventually you will find an ism label but the the thing that this cancel culture doesn't appreciate is everybody has some ism that that can be attached to them yeah now some isms are worse than others obviously but you know we're all infallible right i go back to like if you want to quote the bible right there's a there's a beautiful passage into the bible um the book of john and the whole thing and you guys have heard this quote many times before but let me just give you the setup so in the law of the land back then adultery was illegal but only for the woman right and so there's a very famous

SPEAKER_117: example of a woman who is accused of adultery and uh you know she was about to be uh stoned to death

Chamath Palihapitiya: which was essentially the punishment and jesus basically draws a line and says you know he who is

SPEAKER_117: without sin should cast that for stone and uh nobody does it de-escalates that conflict and everybody leaves right um and there's a very famous essay uh that renee gerard wrote that basically compared that to it to a different example in a more paganist context where people did stone people the idea of

Chamath Palihapitiya: all of this is that there's some amount of you know sin that everybody carries and i think that at some point cancel culture will realize that you have to de-escalate and you have to see through some of this

SPEAKER_81: noise you have to have some point of moral resolution to really move on because this sort of like fatalistic judgment doesn't work anymore so whoever people wanted to cancel rogan they must be very frustrated today because for all intents and purposes he got off the hook they may try again in the future with some other ism he may just as well get off the hook in the future right so what what is the real solution the real solution is to figure out how to de-escalate and actually have a conversation about the things that he's doing that really upset you and that is still not what's happening

SPEAKER_33: and a path perhaps to resolution let's get freeberg in and then you sex freeberg i'll say two things one

SPEAKER_101: i i think um i once sat next to tony blair for dinner you know he was the prime minister of the uk and he told me it was a really funny conversation because he was talking about his youth and he's like

SPEAKER_56: if there were iphones when i was young i would not have ever been elected to public office like you know um he was in a rock band he i don't know if you guys know his history but you know he was pretty freewheeling kind of guy and his point was really broader than that it was that you know all of us have something that people can look to us for and use against us in some way but i think what's really important with this joe rogan thing and i think the bigger picture for me dissenting voices and critical voices and outspoken voices are extremely important in the discourse that makes society progress it is not a good society when people that have dissenting of voices or offensive voices are shut down society has a better opportunity to to chart a new course and to identify new paths sometimes when the dissenting voice is wrong and sometimes when it is right but in both cases it is important to have that dissenting voice because it allows us to have the dialogue that allows us collectively to figure out what is wrong and what is right and so this notion of cancel culture and the way that people like joe rogan are and have been attacked for things that they have said in the past or do say today um i think is really contrary to the opportunity that the united states presents with this you know a founding principle of freedom of speech sex yeah so i agree with

SPEAKER_144: that but i want to build on what jama said with uh the renee gerard um analysis of this i mean

SPEAKER_96: what we're seeing here is the modern day equivalent of a primitive you know archaic stoning ritual this

SPEAKER_49: is a modern day virtual stoning in which we're not uh killing somebody but we're trying to kill their digital avatar i mean we're basically trying to remove and destroy their online presence i mean that was really the goal here and um and and and the mechanics of this thing it it only works to the extent that people are unaware of the um the mechanism of the scapegoating as soon as they become aware that this person's being targeted selectively as a scapegoat it stops working and that was the situation we were in last week where you had you know neil young through the first he cast the first stone despite being guilty of misinformation many times himself he's got like a weird history of saying weird things about gmos and gay people and some of the stuff got dredged back up and and i think that was fair because led he who is without misinformation cast his first stone and then he got some of his friends you know the these aging you know rockers like joanie mitchell and uh crosby

SPEAKER_146: stills and ash to to to throw the next stones and then the media got in on this and through cnn and msnbc they were throwing stones and it was all motivated by the fact that rogan is simply does not refuse he refuses to parrot their orthodoxy because you know we can see people like howard stern who i like stern okay but today howard stern has become a full-fledged covet hysteric i mean he is fully on board with the covet restrictions and mandates in this area that's why he gets diplomatic immunity to this so this whole the the whole scapegoating ritual around rogan was about to fail last week and that's why they escalated it is because they saw first of all rogan was getting away and then second our ability to to run these sorts of like witch hunts if people start to reject that we lose all of our power and so that's why this thing escalated into the most sensitive area that we have in our society this language around race this very hurtful these hurtful epithets and these people are playing games with that with with that type of language and um it's very destructive and um but i think people

Chamath Palihapitiya: are seeing through it you know i really agree with this i think like the the scapegoating um has a way

SPEAKER_81: to resolve things um is losing its uh effectiveness increasingly it did work online for some amount of time early on and david you're exactly right it's when the mechanism of action was poorly understood but now that everybody sees it and people try to do it all the time it just stops working and it's

SPEAKER_77: not nearly as effective anymore it's a burnt out tactic you know we see this in startups and it's like this marketing channel has been overburnt and everybody knows like okay i'm being marketed to and to give it some context for those people who are wondering you heard renee gerard like three or four times here he's a philosopher and uh he taught at stanford he had a big impact on peter teal i don't know if sacks actually took any courses with him and there's a book me peter david i mean like if you're

SPEAKER_49: taking courses with him i never i never took any courses but uh peter told me about his ideas in

SPEAKER_81: college and i read some of his books yeah his books are incredible i mean he is one of the most uh

SPEAKER_118: powerful thinkers uh of this i mean he passed away reminds me of joseph campbell the power of myth like

SPEAKER_157: they were really thinking about the the the sort of basic basic tenets of like human the human

SPEAKER_77: condition and how people behave it's really worth double clicking on uh i think also interesting uh

SPEAKER_02: in terms of forgiveness and blackface uh justin trudeau has appeared no less than three times in his

SPEAKER_61: youth in blackface and it's it's not a joke it's literally true justin trudeau like the reason why um

SPEAKER_117: the the racism label was planted on rogan is because he's heterodox the reason why that racism

SPEAKER_150: label has not yet really been planted on justin trudeau is because he's orthodox he's quite he's quite

SPEAKER_81: part of the ingrained establishment he comes from royalty in canada growing up pure trudeau you know we were we were liberals growing up we were members of the liberal party we'd made donations to the liberal party you know in our lore there is no greater symbol than pure trudeau his father and so when you're the son of somebody like that you get an enormous amount of um credit in your bank account that you're born with and he was able to burn through so much of it by doing things that anybody else in any other situation may have been judged much more harshly for and he wasn't um and he becomes prime minister and then he's able to get re-elected but you know his day of reckoning is reckoning is coming um because he is revealing himself to be a part of this establishment with these views that are actually really uncomfortable and you know quite grotesque because of how judgmental they are of

SPEAKER_02: everybody else and that's a great segue and then just finally sacks it correct me if i'm wrong here joe rogan has voted democrat his whole life he holds largely democratic beliefs uh he's for

SPEAKER_163: universal health care he's pro-trans he's pro-gay he supported bernie sanders and he was a voting for bernie sanders he's a really stupid person for the democrats for democratic politicians

SPEAKER_49: like biden to alienate because he's a hero to young people he's a hero to the working class and his views are fundamentally i'd say more progressive yeah they're 100 progressive yes so it's stupid for

SPEAKER_65: them to do this but it's also stupid for them to be alienating these truckers because democrats were

SPEAKER_165: supposed to be the party of the working class so let's pivot to that issue can i just say one last

SPEAKER_38: thing i just want to reiterate this sax because i just i just want to really give you a chance to say

SPEAKER_117: it again you've always said and it's so true the solution to free speech and to protect it is more speech and i just want to say to daniel eck and the team at spotify you guys must have been in a really difficult spot but the decision to take that 100 million dollars to increase the funnel for other voices and historically underrepresented voices is so good and i hope you guys get to the other side

SPEAKER_138: of it but i thought it was a really really really good decision yeah i mean so on eck and the spotify

SPEAKER_96: decision let me just add one thing to that so i applaud them for not cancelling rogan they must have been under enormous pressure to do so including from their own you know employees um the only

SPEAKER_49: thing i didn't like in x statement was when he talked about the user safety and how they need to do a better job of of user safety that's a concept that doesn't make a lot of sense to me i mean rogan is not sneaking into people's living rooms and turning his show on and pressing play if people

SPEAKER_146: don't like it i'm talking about users if users don't like the content they don't have to listen you

SPEAKER_169: don't have to click play he's not literally turn the channel safety yeah we've still bought into

SPEAKER_49: this idea of psychological safety that being confronted with any view you don't like is a

SPEAKER_146: threat to your safety that is actually a threat to free speech because it's giving the most hysterical

SPEAKER_171: people in our culture the ones who are most prone to being offended a veto over any idea that and

SPEAKER_77: speech they don't like yeah if you're uncomfortable you're unsafe you could remove yourself from that situation if it's a piece of media you don't need to read every book you don't need to see every quentin tarantino film you don't need to listen to joe rogan or whatever else that you find

SPEAKER_65: offensive to you personally i just don't think we should be feeding that idea that that psychological

SPEAKER_176: safety is a legitimate idea we talked about this before with like you know people at work if they say they feel unsafe that's instantly like an hr like oh my god you feel unsafe yeah red alert hr comes

SPEAKER_178: everybody they have a legal requirement if someone's creating a safety issue in the workplace they have

SPEAKER_146: a legal requirement to remove that problem that's why this language got started is it triggers

SPEAKER_175: the machinery of hr to remove people who are doing nothing wrong what if i told you as an employee

SPEAKER_112: like sax hey listen your work product is not good enough you're like i feel unsafe right okay

SPEAKER_175: anyway let's go to the truckers because i think we're beating this to death i just want to have

SPEAKER_02: one final comment on spotify i think dan and i appreciate what daniel did with 100 million dollars that's great and i think it's great that he's supporting free speech and he's holding his ground there i know that's not easy however i think he's intellectually dishonest saying they're not the

SPEAKER_77: publisher of joe rogan i have a three-part test to see if you're a publisher do you pay for the content do you promote it do you produce it if you do two or more of those you're de facto a publisher in my mind they pay a lot of money for joe rogan they promote the heck out of him and while they don't produce it in advance by picking the guests they do have a production-like veto uh on what content they put out there and so if netflix has to own the people they pay uh even if they don't produce it and they promote then spotify does need to have the same standard and disney and netflix all are

SPEAKER_93: producers of content nobody would argue that and i believe spotify is the producer daniel's not being

SPEAKER_87: honest final thought on this let me just defend spotify for a second okay you guys have been through this i've i've been through this many times at several of my companies but when you are in the

SPEAKER_81: middle of a firestorm it's very rare that you can put out these you know um press releases where the pride of authorship is one person and in many ways you have to write these pr releases with all of these guardrails that that think about all of these future issues that may prop up over time and so i understand that you guys had some issues with some of the words i would just say again look at the action and the action is he didn't de-platform someone and then he doubled down on free speech and he actually pointed a hundred million dollar fire hose at people who can now tell their own stories on a platform that is the most important audio platform in the world so i would say

SPEAKER_117: you know you know that's kind of like same thing when i said you know i didn't particularly like

SPEAKER_81: sometimes you know brian's essay i could have written it better but at the end of the day what i saw through it and i admitted this later the substance of what brian armstrong did was incredibly profound one of the most important things that actually happened in the last few years in silicon valley culture and i would just say that i think that daniel did something really powerful here and i think that both spotify and coinbase deserve and the employees and the leaders there deserve a round of

SPEAKER_87: applause i think it was a very very hard decision and i think they stuck to their guns irrespective of

SPEAKER_77: what you believe they stuck to their guns canadian truckers are protesting as many of you know vaccine mandates just breaking today ontario's premier has declared a state of emergency for the entire province and uh ottawa police have braced for thousands of protesters to descend for the third consecutive weekend usa today also reported the convoy could disrupt the superbowl biden state of the union etc the protest has been self-titled the freedom convoy and has been underway since january 29th 29th it appears it uh has banned several thousand vehicles across the country and the truckers are blocking key roadways and bridges including the ambassador bridge they're seeking an end to canada's

SPEAKER_02: vaccine mandates and it feels like this is now morphing into something a little bit wider than just vaccine mandates uh maybe it's becoming a occupy wall street type of uh protest open to many people with

SPEAKER_77: many different uh things that they have uh grievances about a reporter from uh barry weiss's common sense newsletter slash media operation uh wrote what the truckers want jason you're you you just nailed it um

SPEAKER_87: i do think that this is actually occupy wall street 2.0 yeah look now it turned out just to get root

SPEAKER_81: some facts so it's not just truckers this is a broad-based coalition of people across every single race and gender and age group in canada that's participating in this thing in fact the barry weiss

SPEAKER_117: article you know she profiled men women of all ages seeks you know whites i mean everybody blacks there was so there's a there's a coalition of people second is this really isn't about vaccination

SPEAKER_81: rates because it turns out truckers are 90 vaccinated they're vaccinated at a higher percentage than the

SPEAKER_117: actual broad-based population of canada which is about 78 percent i think the the point of this and again i care about this so much as a canadian but i i just want to read a quote from justin trudeau

SPEAKER_81: because i think it encapsulates what this is really about the quote is the small fringe minority of people who are on their way to ottawa who are holding unacceptable views that they are expressing do not represent the views of canadians and i think it's that phrase unacceptable views that really points

Chamath Palihapitiya: to what the real issue here is which is that there are a lot of people who now say it's been two years enough with mask mandates enough with all of this you know almost police state that's developed all of

SPEAKER_81: the emergency use power that politicians have taken let's reclaim our democracy and let's have you know freedom again and under the political viewpoint of the ruling liberal party which by the way is now going into revolt as well a bunch of liberal mps have just completely flipped because of this statement it summarizes what trudeau is saying which is what you believe is unacceptable to me and so now i will

SPEAKER_101: quash you or that canada has one viewpoint uh freeberg did any of you guys listen to the new york times daily podcast that our friend sent out the link to this morning yes you know to me these are the same story it was uh actually uh um an interview uh with a reporter uh who highlighted some work that she had done

SPEAKER_56: and identified that phil murphy the uh the democratic governor of new jersey had done some uh some some polling and some some focus group discussions uh with some of his constituents and the overriding tone was one of emotion one of feeling left out of the life that they believed they should have been living over the past two years and ultimately i think the tone speaks very clearly to what the truckers are saying which is everyone feels more than ever incredible overreach into their personal lives by the government um and by different governments whether it's local or federal here in the us or by this canadian government or you know go to australia or the uk and the sentiment seems to be similar everywhere i don't think that any time since world war ii have we seen the government create such restrictions and such mandates in in democratic republics uh like the united states um that we just saw over the past two years and i think the fact that it's continuing when folks are now seeing you know on the ground every day uh you know the the mildness of omicron or like you know the big the challenges that their kids are facing in school and you kind of put these things together and you say to yourself why is my government restricting my life and causing the challenge that i'm being forced to face for what and i think that's a tone that everyone feels everywhere in the west today i think in the east it's a little bit different right um uh because of the the mindset there but i think here it's collectivism collectivism and i think here we're we pride individual liberty and freedom as kind of the foundation of these democracies uh to have the government tell us what we have to wear shots we have to put in our arms where we can go and when how we can behave in ways that were never legislated in ways that were never kind of debated and discussed publicly uh just feels overreaching at this point i think everyone's hit their breaking point and this is another one of these examples this trucking thing is another one of these examples of people manifesting their breaking point

SPEAKER_02: and sacks to the point we've been discussing over and over again things have changed radically since the beginning of the pandemic you believed in mask mandates early because hey no downside we talked

SPEAKER_77: about that and we didn't want hospitals to be overrun which is reasonable you wanted to have oxygen we were all you know trying to make plans for hey how bad is this going to be but we're sitting here two

SPEAKER_157: years later and it's pretty clear omicron which i had uh thank you sax um is is a nothing burger as

SPEAKER_209: we said here thanks thanks a lot saxacron i helped you saxacron made me a superhero thank you all

SPEAKER_157: i've ever gotten is sick when i've been around you yeah i went to sax's party and all i got was an eight thousand dollar gift bag and omicron uh the gift bags pretty great at sax's parties no i think i

SPEAKER_49: think getting omicron helped you because it enabled you to see that this for you was largely a

SPEAKER_96: nothing burger and so you could come out of your house and start acting normal i think there's a lot

SPEAKER_216: of people all over the country or like you were saying that you haven't left your house for two

SPEAKER_39: years do you remember the photos of sax at the beginning of covet when he was wearing the triple mask and the yeah he was scared to death he ran to mexico yeah yeah he colonel cursed it well look i

SPEAKER_49: supported mass mandates the beginning of the pandemic when falchi was telling us mass didn't work let's let's not forget that um you know i was supporting when the health officials told us they didn't work

SPEAKER_81: why because it was the only thing we had we didn't have david david come on he was he was doing us a favor by lying to us by his own admission he said i lied to you so that we could preserve these masks for frontline workers well thank you thank you anthony one of many one of many look noble lies that he's

SPEAKER_218: been telling here we go he's a he's a noble liar he's in right by may of 2020 i would he's my biggest

SPEAKER_226: political loser pick from 2020 go on take it easy on your picks i know you want to do your victory lap

SPEAKER_65: it's only february give us till like june for the check-in okay colonel kurtz continue mass were the main

SPEAKER_49: alternative to lockdowns that's the way i saw it in the summer of 2020 and i was saying and these crazy lockdowns just do mass and then once we had the vaccine and all covet restrictions that was a year ago and now we still have these restrictions a year later and that is what the truckers were rebelling against just like you said these are ordinary people who are sick and tired of having

SPEAKER_146: to show their papers and have to deal with these mandates um and um and and for that they've been like absolutely demonized i mean trudeau comes out and says that they're basically white supremacists and racists and homophobic every epithet he can throw at them sorry to your point he used every

SPEAKER_231: he did use every ism he really did try to cancel them at first and this is what's really painted him in a

SPEAKER_81: corner he went on national tv and he said these people are racists and misogynists that's that's specifically what he said and it actually turned out that the overwhelming majority of them were not they were just normal ordinary law-abiding canadians who were just fed up with the overreach and then then what happened was the polling said you should bring these convoy leaders in sit them down and talk to them and then the political calculus though was impossible for him because he had already called them racists and misogynists so then how could he bring them in right exactly yeah how do you negotiate with nazis basically so then what he did was he ran out of ottawa so instead of staying in ottawa now he's under uh in a secure location for his seat oh my god oh he feels unsafe so trigger warning

SPEAKER_77: in fairness uh when you bring 8 000 people together and you get a wide enough group of people there was swat stickers and white confederate flags that were flown so it might have been two of 8 000 but

SPEAKER_240: that did happen within any protest movement which i just said yes within any protest movement there's

SPEAKER_49: always gonna be a handful of people who go too far and are too extreme but they did not represent the vast vast majority of the people who turned out which are ordinary citizens and trudeau seized on a handful of isolated examples to try and demonize these guys and i think it's blowing up in his face the fact of the matter is the truckers did not start this fight it's the zealotry

SPEAKER_146: of our elites of our professional class that started this fight they will not give up on these mandates that's the fundamental problem and while they go to the super bowl with no mascot i think what you're

SPEAKER_49: seeing here with this trucker thing i think it's going to have huge ripple effects because it's showing the schism in the democratic party between the professional elites and the working class here you have the working class remember these were the essential workers these are the people

SPEAKER_146: bringing us our food most of them have already had covet over the last couple of years they

SPEAKER_49: couldn't sit behind a computer and do their job in their pajamas on zoom all day okay so these guys know the reality of covet just like you learned the reality jason when you actually got it and yet we've

SPEAKER_146: got this neurotic class of professionals within the democratic party who don't want who are these coveted owners don't want to give this stuff up and that's the fundamental divide and i think biden's gonna have to choose which side are you on are you on the side of the working class or the professional class trudeau has chosen his side he is the effete elite face of these coveted dead enders and um and

SPEAKER_77: biden's gonna have to choose who he supports and then those are dwindling you have governors now who are democratic governors in many states who are saying listen uh omicron is obviously different and

SPEAKER_243: look at the charts look at the data we have to talk about this new york times story on how new jersey and several other of these blue states dropped the mask mandates it was absolutely extraordinary i

SPEAKER_163: mean it's not extraordinary the risk assessment is different david what was extraordinary about it

SPEAKER_02: is that i mean i think it's kind of obvious more than extraordinary if omicron is less deadly it's an upper respiratory doesn't kill people who are vaccinated and most people are vaccinated pretty obviously it's time to pivot and open everything up it sounds like an obvious decision biden really

SPEAKER_49: missed his moment here so i think you know like freebrick said it was phil murphy he's the democratic governor of new jersey he was supposed to have an easy re-elect win by 20 to 30 points he narrowly squeaks by by by two to three points okay so then he conducts the focus groups to find out what do we miss why were we so off on this thing and they find out that people want to get tired of these

SPEAKER_146: mandates he goes to the white house okay and shows these findings and says guys we have to get off this losing position on covet and the white house sits on his hands and does absolutely nothing so murphy is like we can't wait anymore so he unilaterally goes without white house support this is all in the new york times article this is not like some right-wing publication saying this okay so he unilaterally says okay we're getting rid of the mass mandate okay and then five other states do the same thing because they realize we can't wait anymore and biden is just nowhere to be found and pisaki is saying well we're deferring to the cdc they're deferring to you know rachel walensky at the cdc and randy white gardener at the teachers unions and these health officials like barbara for in l.a county all of whom are saying we cannot lift these mandates yet they don't want so they are completely on the wrong side of this and then biden really steps in it by saying to trudeau in canada listen you guys got to clear this bridge do whatever you need to do to clear this bridge basically implying that the civil disobedience needs to be met by force and then you've got harvard professors and cnn analysts saying slash their tires take away their trucking licenses starve them out you know so this has been the response and the response to that is now there's a trucker convoy getting started in the u.s and they're going to march on washington they're going to drive to washington great and between now and then biden better figure out what side he's going to be on because if he doesn't handle this right i think it's going to be the end of his presidency peaceful

SPEAKER_248: civil disobedience is fine as long as they're not blocking ambulances getting people to and from

SPEAKER_146: hospitals that's fine especially is this scranton joe the the the guy who said he would take us back to normalcy the the representative of the working class is that who the president united states is or

SPEAKER_250: is he in the trudeau camp the you know the the fauci and the walensky and the barbara ferrers easily

SPEAKER_81: i think you're asking uh you're asking a rhetorical question i think that the the polling data makes the answer pretty clear which is that the democratic party is lurching towards establishment insiders and working normal ordinary people have in larger and larger numbers started gravitating towards to the republican party minorities in far larger numbers than we ever expected have started lurching towards the republican party and so the answer is sort of in the polling data and what what um the actual facts on the ground have been you know i mean we we forget that because we were all so ready to to to cast away our trump derangement syndrome syndrome but

SPEAKER_87: he did get i think what was it nine million more people to vote for him in this past yeah the working

SPEAKER_133: class whether they're this the white working class or the non-white working class are moving in huge

SPEAKER_49: numbers i think huge i think i think the margin of non-white working class who moved to the republicans last election was 18 points they got 18 points more share than eight years ago so the working class regardless of their race is moving towards the republicans while the democrats are becoming this more effete elite professional class party this woke elite party and you know i think biden sort of is caught in the middle of this and i think he's running out of time to try and reestablish that he's going to have a centrist presidency that does not completely kowtow and defer to the left of his party to this sort of woke elite thinking you know you see democrat political scientists like roy to share are writing about this like every week saying this is your last chance this is your

SPEAKER_175: moment to save your presidency and i don't know if he's listening okay friedberg we made some great

SPEAKER_02: progress in science this week in nuclear fusion do you want to tee this up for us i'm happy to so

SPEAKER_56: let me just give a little background for maybe a minute on on fusion so you know the um the way energy is made in the sun and in all stars is through this process of nuclear fusion where hydrogen uh nuclei the the protons inside of hydrogen atoms shoot around it's such a high energy and they're so dense because of the amount of hydrogen it all causes gravity to pull them all together they get really dense they start slamming into each other when they slam into each other they fuse into helium and ultimately the heavier elements and release energy in the process and that is what fusion is so you know we talk about nuclear energy on earth all nuclear energy that we generated on earth as a species to date has been through fission where we take much heavier elements like plutonium and uranium and they break apart by squeezing them together and they release energy but this creates radioactive material it's dangerous it's very very expensive and so on so there's always been a question since roughly the 1950s on whether or not we could recreate the conditions of the sun or stars on planet earth by creating a plasma by creating the same sort of plasma that exists inside of stars very hot very fast very dense hydrogen that can slam into itself and slam into atoms and fuse

SPEAKER_257: into helium and release energy does that same plasma exist on uranus uh-huh yeah god you're gonna give

SPEAKER_258: him a wedgie let science boy finish come on oh sorry back to you never gets old was it 69 megajoules or 420

SPEAKER_261: megajoules so plasma fusion's always been this kind of holy grail of energy because if you can actually

SPEAKER_56: generate plasma fusion the amount of energy it takes to create the plasma is less than the energy that comes out of the plasma so it's it's effectively infinite infinite free cheap plasma and so the the system that people have been building for the last 25 30 years is these uh these donut shaped systems called tokamaks they're they they're like a circle like a donut and they spin the plasma around inside and so it takes a lot of energy and magnets and so on to try and make this work you know it's a company we talked about a few months ago called commonwealth fusion systems which uses a new superconducting material to control that plasma and use instead of using expensive magnets may just raise 1.8 billion and uh you know more recently uh the joint um european torus which is managed by the uh the atomic energy authority in the united kingdom uh just this week demonstrated um energy output uh from their tokamak plasma fusion system where they generated you know 59 megawatts of of energy in five seconds uh which is um a record uh the prior record was set in 1997 by that same agency they generated 16 megawatts of power output so it was a great breakthrough and you know to make this all possible has required uh technical breakthroughs in electronics uh technical breakthroughs and sensors and computing and hardware and material science and superconductors and so all of this is starting to coalesce that plasma fusion might actually become a reality and the icare system which is the biggest construction project in europe 35 nations have contributed a total of roughly 50 to 60 billion dollars to make this system um is it's going to go online around 2027 they've been building it for 20 years it's going to be a 500 megawatt demonstration system and if it works then it opens up the door that in the future we may actually be able to turn plasma fusion into an energy source for all of humanity it basically would use water plasma fusion is made from taking hydrogen which you would get from water spinning it around heating it up getting it to be really really dense and ultimately driving

SPEAKER_216: power out of it the implications are extraordinary right so over the next few decades it is appearing

SPEAKER_56: more likely that we will have plasma fusion systems working on earth and as that happens energy becomes free and it becomes unlimited and with unlimited free energy we can terraform earth right we can take uh ocean water desal it turn it into fresh water we can pump that into deserts turn them into rain forests um you know the total annual production of energy on earth today is about 170 terawatt hours that amount of energy could be generated from just a 10 foot by 10 foot by 10 foot cube of water um that's the amount of energy the amount of material that would be turned into photons that would drive all of the electricity we need on earth so it's an incredible technology an incredible breakthrough we're starting to see this stuff happen one area that i wanted to kind of just highlight which no one talks about but which i think is extraordinarily um important about a hundred years from now let's say as these plasma fusion systems work it's certainly going to be um true that we'll have abundant free energy during the back half of this century and that'll change everything we'll decarbonize the atmosphere we'll terraform the planet we can make whatever we want we can build things etc but the same system of plasma fusion theoretically could be used to fuse heavier elements than just helium so fast forward 100 or 200 years if we can actually make plasma fusion systems work we could also and to make helium to make energy we could also use them to make heavier elements like the rare earth metals that we talk about being so important here on earth to make batteries or phosphorus which you know we're going to run out of on planet earth in about 100 years which is a critical component of agriculture and feeding ourselves so you know over the next call it hundred years plasma fusion systems i think back half of this century come online provide us with abundant free energy and then in the 22nd century i think this idea of nucleosynthesis the idea that we can actually make the rare earth or the heavier elements that are limited natural resources here on earth where we could turn water into gold or water into lithium or water into molybdenum or you know into beryllium or whatever um starts to become a reality um and so this to me like i feel like we're on the eve of plasma fusion being a reality you know based on some of the results we're seeing and it's it's one after the other eye tear is going to come online you know commonwealth fusion had their their materials breakthrough and on and on and on and on so this seems to be building up and so the 20 and you're

SPEAKER_272: going to hit a tipping point yeah that's right i think the 2030s and the 2040s are where this becomes real

SPEAKER_216: and all these problems and concerns we have about climate change and carbon in the atmosphere all of this

SPEAKER_02: stuff can be reversed with infinite energy and so so i'm optimistic and i'm i'm excited about a lot of what we're seeing let me ask you one question obviously when people start hearing about nuclear reactors and fission and then they start learning about fusion they immediately have the chernobles

SPEAKER_77: of the world and fukushima's come to mind and nuclear bombs in this case when this reaction occurs my understanding i've interviewed a couple people working on these reactors is that the reaction just fizzles out it just stops and then it's not radioactive so these these are not radioactive

SPEAKER_216: materials that naturally decay into radioactive um ions or or particles that can damage the body or

SPEAKER_56: damage uh these are literally just hydrogen atoms that are spun around so hot and smashed into each other so if the machine breaks everything just turns off that's it and the output even when it's

SPEAKER_02: working my understanding is some natural uh like just air and water so there's no output there's no

SPEAKER_216: there's nothing radioactive there's no environmental there's nothing to deal with let me fast forward 200 years so now assume these systems work as you guys know all technology over time gets better faster

SPEAKER_56: cheaper smaller so in 200 years we could find that we have plasma fusion reactions in every pocket in every computer in every phone imagine a world where we no longer need batteries where we no longer need transmission lines and where a system can literally pull hydrogen out of the air generate electricity on the fly and it sounds crazy but people thought people would have never thought that the batteries that we put inside of phones would have existed when the first flow cell battery cell was made you know whatever you know during the early days of of uh of chemistry electrical chemistry so you know the idea that we've been able to shrink batteries as we have um the idea that we've been able to make generators like we have today these were concepts that would have been so foreign so i do think that in 200 years if plasma fusion systems work there's nothing about the laws of physics that says they're limited in scale to only being large they theoretically could be reduced down so there's no limit to the size they could drop down to and so there could be a world 200 years from now where plasma fusion reactors exist in every component that needs electricity um and so ultimately you could see putting these these systems on um spaceships and using them to convert elements from one form to another and we could live for you know a

SPEAKER_101: hundred thousand years on a spaceship and just recycle the elements on that spaceship to produce

SPEAKER_280: all our food and our air and everything and yeah for sure we could get to uranus with that absolutely

SPEAKER_101: and back the summary and back you can back you could circle his anus so that was my diatribe on plasma

SPEAKER_77: fusion i'm super excited about some of the progress right now sax is wondering how do we wet our beaks just tell us where to place the bet it's there's nowhere yet this is i mean honestly i don't place bets on

SPEAKER_41: things that take a hundred thousand years it's only a hundred years oh a hundred years sorry hundred

SPEAKER_49: thousand things that might materialize in four years sorry hundred weeks he needs to upgrade his

SPEAKER_286: plans bills are due next month i got bills to pay i got bill he's got a big part of um the you know

SPEAKER_272: just speaking markets for a second i mentioned to you guys at the end of last year that i made a bet

SPEAKER_56: on energy stocks and the reason i made a bet on energy stocks is because some of the breakthroughs that we're seeing in decarbonization and renewable energy has driven a reduction in capital improvements across energy infrastructure because people are so optimistic about what's over the horizon and they're so pessimistic about carbon intensive energy systems that we actually have under invested over the past few years in energy infrastructure that it's turning out today is critically needed so while this is a great long-term kind of optimistic world scenario and it's going to decarbonize energy production and energy systems in the near term we're actually struggling a bit to meet our energy demands and there's a lot of leverage that energy producers have over those that are the consumers as we're seeing currently with the russia ukraine europe crisis and so on and so part of the reason for the climb and energy stocks over the last couple of weeks has been largely driven by the fact that we're realizing that this under investment in capex has created a decline in productivity of these assets relative to the demand and so suddenly everyone's like oh my gosh these things are going to be able to charge more commodity prices are going up and so on so you know it's very hard to think about playing an investment cycle around this stuff because in the near term there's still significant demand and we only have carbon intensive systems to produce energy well i was going to ask you if

SPEAKER_02: does this mean on an investment thesis you might see a massive spike in carbon-based fuel systems and these sovereign wealth funds and then a dramatic drop off no okay what do you predict will happen the

SPEAKER_292: nobody will support anybody investing in pulling more oil out of the ground they'll they'll support

SPEAKER_117: trying to get more from what we have um but you know i don't know if i don't know if you guys saw but

SPEAKER_81: you know um there's no support for this whether you're an investor and you go activist on some of these oil companies you know whether you're i think they're biden had a big setback because you know he had cleared a whole like millions of acres of offshore

SPEAKER_150: land for uh some point some kind of energy extraction that was then just reversed by the courts no no but nobody has support for this stuff but that's it but what you're saying is exactly right and

SPEAKER_202: it's exactly the reason oil prices are climbing i just sent you guys a link to what's going on today

Chamath Palihapitiya: they're but they're climbing for the wrong reason so look let's just be realistic here we

SPEAKER_117: you know we have a cartel it's called opec you know uh and what they do is they decide output

SPEAKER_81: and we have some balance checks and balances to opec namely russia and a few other actors who will try to then regulate um supply and demand so that there's mutually assured destruction the net result of all of that right now is that we do have some constrained supply for the amount that we need to get to get back to the level of production we had pre-pandemic so we are going to have some sustained energy prices but you saw something really important this past week everybody was waiting for this big cpi print right the consumer price index print everybody thought it was going to be a bad number it was a pretty bad number but the markets were pretty responsive to it and um and then it's been pretty responsive the rest of the week despite a whole bunch of stuff i don't know if you guys saw but like yesterday there was this crazy article where you know one of the fed governors was like we should raise by 100 basis points by july and you know we should do eight eight raises and and the markets were like what are you talking about and why is that because now people have started to look you know i've mentioned this before when you go into a rate cycle we're kind of past worrying about how many we kind of look to the end and decide what we want to believe about the future and one of the most interesting things is the rate of change of this inflation was actually lower month over month and so if you think about it that way we had a bad cpi print but it's actually not going up as much and in fact it's starting to trail off and a lot of economists now forecast basically this inflation peaking or already having peaked over the last few weeks consumer sentiment is not so good a lot of us are now shifting our consumption away from goods to more services we're stopping you know the hoarding of the toilet papers of the world if you will and so i'm not a big buyer of this trade to be honest with you freeberg i think that it works in the short term i don't think it's an investment i think at some point you're going to have to make a decision about what your view on

SPEAKER_272: energy is i know i agree i don't think this is a long-term trade trade not an investment that's right but i do i do think that the macro sentiment sent the market in one direction it creates this up

SPEAKER_56: buying opportunity which i was pretty clear about and i do think that some of this global tension stuff we're seeing is only going to drive it up for a while i do i do think however that the the uh

Chamath Palihapitiya: this uh big tech spread trade is moving from a trade to an investment actually and that i didn't expect

SPEAKER_81: and the reason is i talked to a bunch of folks on wall street over this past week and they told me two things and one of them is a segue because i think we should talk about microsoft which is another brilliant move in the lexicon of business but what they said was facebook has become a funding short for other investments now what does that mean everybody was crowded into big tech we talked about this before right those five stocks were broadly owned they were effectively the index but after that um after that earnings report a lot of investors including retail investors had to decide where to reallocate their capital and had to decide where to invest where the money was going to come from to invest in these other names that were really beaten up and what folks on wall street have been telling me is that you know facebook has become what's called a funding short meaning there is no bid to buy that from institutional owners they'd rather on the margin sell it to generate the cash to then take and invest in other things and what you saw over this past week is the bottoming out of a lot of these growth stocks that were beaten up right they rallied pretty significantly every day three four five six percent rallies um and other names in big tech have rallied really well including microsoft and um and so i i i think that there is the potential a small potential that that's going from

SPEAKER_87: a trade to an investment actually a sustainable trend that you can bank on for you know several years investment hold the stock for five ten years the trade that spread trade you can yeah for a long

SPEAKER_77: period of time but for the winners to be the winners in that just so people get refreshed google's a winner in that google microsoft google and then you feel amazon facebook obviously and netflix are

SPEAKER_61: the losers in that trade still feel that way i think that microsoft and google are far and away the winners far and away the winners and look you saw you saw you saw this microsoft thing today or sorry this

SPEAKER_192: past week so smart you know yeah so just to give catch people up on that microsoft has made another savvy

SPEAKER_77: move to get approval for their 75 billion activision blizzard uh acquisition they promised their video game app store would operate with open market principles ceo of the year uh satya nadell uh and others travel to washington uh nadella uh nadella right that's an anthony um travel to watch this week to meet with regulators regarding the acquisition so they i guess are proactively going to washington as opposed to other people who maybe are not quote from microsoft president brad smith we are more focused on adopting adapting to regulation than fighting against it that's some really interesting

SPEAKER_87: there's a famous story about this explorer named hernando cortez where uh you know we've all heard this analogy or this this this uh little phrase before um where you know when they were exploring um coming from europe and you know they hit the caribbean islands and then you know looking for america etc the famous phrase is burn the boats yep right can't go back we have to find our way make

SPEAKER_117: it work um the the way that that's been extended in business is sort of what we would call scorch the

SPEAKER_81: earth and there's a competitive move that a lot of businesses if they're smart enough can execute which is to effectively take a key market and take an economic view of that market where you say that we're going to take all the economic value away from it and i think this is the first step towards

SPEAKER_61: a really interesting play that microsoft could pull which is essentially to scorch the earth of app stores which is google's and apple's really big money printer to make a completely open permissible platform with very little to no take rate and in a market as big as video games i think what it does

SPEAKER_81: is it creates pressure on all these other mega platforms to essentially copy them and i think friedberg mentioned this before google has actually been the best in doing this by finding these key markets or

SPEAKER_117: i think it was sax you know chrome and other things and giving them away for free google is in a position to make the app store effectively free and then that puts apple on a little bit of a desert island so jason back to why i think you can keep apple in that basket of shorts the competitive pressures are mounting by by the moves of microsoft that i think are easier for google to copy and very difficult for companies like apple to copy because it creates an incredible um disincentive yeah and also as part

SPEAKER_77: of this open app store concept they would let you use any payment system so if you're on an iphone and you wanted to use apple pay with a google app purchase you could do that and if you're on you know microsoft you could use paypal as an example sax what do you what do you think about

SPEAKER_133: inflation okay there was a really interesting chart on inflation that actually zero hedge tweeted

SPEAKER_49: and um i threw it up in the notes here where they said real hourly earnings are negative 1.7 it's the 10th month in a row where u.s incomes aren't keeping up with inflation so the problem here is that you know people's incomes have increased with inflation but not as much as the inflation rate

SPEAKER_146: so the net effect of it is that people are feeling worse off when they go to the grocery store

SPEAKER_49: to buy groceries or whatever they need they don't feel as rich that's the fundamental problem here and i think there's a lot of people out there who think that there's a free lunch that if we printed two trillion worth of stimmy checks this is the whole that two trillion dollar bill last year they shoveled through i think the idea was we're going to print as much money as we can before the election and it's going to help us in the midterms actually as it turns out it boosted inflation so much

SPEAKER_146: that people are feeling worse off even though their wages went up slightly because on a net basis their earnings are down so i just think it's a good reminder that um you can't just like print uh wealth

SPEAKER_65: you can't print your way to prosperity no free lunches there's no free lunches yeah or we're going

SPEAKER_272: to create addiction to universal income or universal subsidy um that's the alternative is people are

SPEAKER_56: going to basically try and vote to make some programs that were initially meant to be temporary more

SPEAKER_320: permanent in order to keep up the uh the lifestyle that they've been come accustomed to just uh just

SPEAKER_120: to build on sax's point uh the university of michigan consumer sentiment was released i think it was today

SPEAKER_81: this morning and it shows exactly what he's saying which is that you know consumers propensity and

SPEAKER_150: confidence in the economy has been falling off a cliff you know the month over month change was almost uh it was down 8.2 percent the year over year change is down almost 20 percent current economic conditions was down 20 and then index of consumer expectations down 19 so to to sax's point people

SPEAKER_49: are scared yeah well we've been we've been talking on the show for the last i'd say a couple of months about balancing the risk of recession versus the risk of inflation inflation i think has gotten slightly worse the print went from the last print was like 7.1 percent now 7.5 percent so to jamas point earlier it's getting worse but the rate of how fast it's getting worse is low but the risk of recession i

SPEAKER_146: think is increasing because what's keeping this economy going is the consumer and if the consumer sentiment now all of a sudden is tanking and people feel poor because of inflation i just you know now the the risks are starting to become more balanced as sentiment goes down this is where

Chamath Palihapitiya: governors play a critical role because if they don't open up these economies we can't actually have

SPEAKER_81: a consumer-led consumption rebound of the economy because there aren't any services to buy because you can't actually be around anybody so if the economy remains effectively closed and people are done buying you know tubs of margarine and toilet paper uh because you know armageddon isn't coming as we were worried it would what are we supposed to be doing so this is how these things interplay so we have to get these again going back to where we started we have to get this economy open and we have to just get back to some sense of normalcy and the consumer will lead us out but i think sax you're right on the margin i think the risk is towards a recession because people don't see this thomas sowell who's a well-known stanford he's a i think he's a senior fellow at hoover um you know he he has this comment which is effectively taxes are bad for the rich and the poor but inflation is bad just for the poor and the reason he says that is because you know if you're wealthy you can transition to assets that are sort of inflation adjusted or inflation protected right you can consume assets or you can purchase assets to protect yourself but inflation is an ex exceptionally regressive means of the government taking compensation away from you current compensation and it disproportionately affects working class ordinary people and so if you have real wages that are negative inflation that's high that's confiscatory right you are you are meaningfully less well off than you were before and you know wealthy folks have a way to hedge but normal ordinary working

SPEAKER_150: class people do not and on the margin then if they then do not go out and spend the problem will be

SPEAKER_02: some sort of recessionary effect i also think if we open up more people might uh since they're so lonely and getting weird staying at home i think they might actually want to go do jobs to socialize and do things i'm seeing uh people want to get out and do you know trips with their teams and they're and

SPEAKER_77: they're sick of staying home salesforce just bought a retreat center and we saw this south of the city

SPEAKER_02: uh the bay area and because benioff's got a concern i guess that all these employees he hired over two years who've never met another salesforce employee are getting weird and lonely and uh you

SPEAKER_328: know i think history is going to be very i think david you're right i think history is going to be really

SPEAKER_81: judgmental of biden if he is the last person to basically give the green light and all of these democratic governors basically revolt and open up under underneath you know uh either silence or the complete opposite point of view this is a really bad setup well national journal which again is not

SPEAKER_96: some right-wing publication they're just sort of a an analyst of what's happening in washington said that by an article biden is blowing his covet moment he was elected to lead us back to normalcy all he

SPEAKER_49: had to do was say guys it's time for the restrictions to come off and take credit for the fact that we were that the whole country was ready to move on and he's kind of missed it and uh but this trucker convoy is coming to washington gives him one more chance i think to get on the right side of this because there's really two ways he can react one is to treat them as you know domestic terrorists you know racists white supremacists insurrectionaries or he can you know embrace them yeah constituents

SPEAKER_146: all he has to do is say listen we love you we respect you we hear you we agree with you it's time for these mandates to end and you know what thank you rachel walensky and anthony fauci for your service we understand you're just trying to keep the country safe but thank you very much we're ready to move on we're getting rid of all these restrictions his popularity would like bounce five points ten points

SPEAKER_247: if he did that yeah i'm betting he's going to i mean he's he's always represented the working man and woman of this country that's been his thing from the beginning i bet you he does embrace them

SPEAKER_02: and if you look at omicron remember the scariness of december hey this thing is spreading 30 40 50 times faster i wonder if it's going to have the same death rate and we didn't know and now we know and it's february two months later we know that the curve in south africa same as a curve in new york and california up and down and then uh the only people who die seemingly are immunocompromised or

SPEAKER_334: unvaccinated or both so feels like the perfect time who really led us back to normalcy i mean

SPEAKER_49: we really need to give credit to all the people who fought to it's the moms who went to these school board meetings who are denounced as domestic terrorists they're the ones who put pressure

SPEAKER_146: to repeal these mass mandates on their kids which by the way aren't even fully off in new york and california adults don't have to wear a mask anymore but the kids do it's the scientists it's the scientists of the great barrington declaration who were demonized and called fringe and kooks and conspiracy theorists they're the ones who provided the real data against lockdowns not the nih it's these truckers who are basically opposing mandates these are the people who are dragging us back to normalcy and it's the politicians who are reacting to that when the polls change and i think what the people want now is some real leadership it's a politician who gets up there and leads us back to normalcy why can't biden do that there's a great article in the times and they profiled

SPEAKER_87: you know a couple people and one of them was a mom in new york who's running for congress against you know an intense an entrenched democrat and she's i mean you know she's just a good hearted mom who was like this is enough enough's enough i need to get back to normalcy my kids need

SPEAKER_247: to get back in school we still have mass mandates here in california kids are still wearing a massive school yeah it's becoming tribal warfare amongst the democrats in california because even when you

SPEAKER_81: know the the governor basically said okay mask mandates can go on x date the the county supervisors

SPEAKER_257: have not decided so for example in santa clara county you know uh they've not said yes in la county

David Sacks: there's a health an unelected bureaucrat health director named barbara ferrer she calls the shots

SPEAKER_146: on covet after newsom basically said that the mass can come off she says no they can't not until april who is this person giving us orders she told us to the board of supervisors down there and we're all just supposed to listen now the reason why she has this authority is because newsom is granted to her under newsom state of emergency so what he should do is end that what is the emergency the super bowl is happening this weekend in the state and everyone's going to be their massless i mean i was at the

SPEAKER_77: warriors game last night and you had people wearing the most flimsy of masks that does nothing to

SPEAKER_247: protect people taking them off while they're eating and drinking and then people walking around with signs the security guards had signs that said please put your mask on and they were walking up to

SPEAKER_02: people i kid you not and putting this like little round sign uh in people's faces and not talking to them just you know and they would stand there until you put your mask back on and like you're literally

SPEAKER_93: eating a hot dog and then you put the hot dog down and then they come up and put the sign in your face then you put your mask up you take another bite of your hot dog i mean it was getting unnecessarily

SPEAKER_02: confrontational and just weird and and nowhere else are you seeing it and then you go to a restaurant and

SPEAKER_340: the employees are wearing masks and nobody else i hope i hope you can find it so weird there was this

SPEAKER_81: clip on twitter um when the mask mandate was lifted in nevada and it was a clip of kids in like grade two or three and they went crazy okay and the reason they were so excited was like they got to be normal again and the explanation i had never heard this more beautifully said these children can finally see their friends's emotions on their face oh my god can you imagine if you're four five six seven years old and you cannot understand the emotions of other kids because you're covered up in a mask and

SPEAKER_178: you've only had an experience in school two years in school my six-year-old has never attended a day

SPEAKER_345: of school without a mask i was about to say right like that's there's kids out there who i never had

SPEAKER_49: and you know i was at i was at uh like the i was at horses with one of my kids last weekend and there were a bunch of kids out there riding it's sunny it's outside they're on a horse they're all wearing masks in a voluntary optional situation i'm just like how brainwashed this generation that we're raising

SPEAKER_146: i mean they're going to be so neurotic but they're also like brainwashed i mean it's it's crazy we see

SPEAKER_334: it in the bay area like i'll have a party with the kids or a group of kids come over and there's two or three parents who show up at the house we only do outdoor parties obviously two or three of the ten

SPEAKER_02: kids will have masks on their parents will have masks on and like the most intense n95 like sealed masks and i'm like you want to take your mask off for a picture and one of the kids refused to take

SPEAKER_43: her mask off for a picture outside at a birthday party and i was like okay listen i mean when i

SPEAKER_49: supported the mass mandate the very beginning of the pandemic it was always as an interim measure if i had known that people would want to continue this thing forever there's no way i would have supported

SPEAKER_248: it also probably was effective in the early days with the first we know what the psychological impact

SPEAKER_150: of children is when they don't understand other people's emotions and you do it over a long period of

SPEAKER_87: time no we don't i think that's a fair statement we don't know the impact and it's probably not zero

SPEAKER_81: and so at some point we need to look at the risks calculate some expected value and the people we need to prioritize are those that are the youngest okay and i've said this before and it's like the teachers unions need to understand that calculus parents already understand that calculus

SPEAKER_150: i don't think the state legislators governors and the federal bureaucracy yet understands this calculus but it's time to return to normal and it's time to return sorry and on this point i would

SPEAKER_81: like to bring up something um uh the aclu thing um just because i think i would love to get your take on you know talking about civil liberties and freedoms there are things that are happening here under our noses every day um under democratic and republican uh presidents that to me when i saw this on the aclu twitter feed yesterday was shocking jason do you want to um tee that up all right in other news the cia

SPEAKER_77: has been secretly conducting surveillance programs to capture americans private information on thursday democratic centers widen and heinrich uh sent a letter to director of the cia and the director of national intelligence the letter called for greater transparency in the cia into the cia's data collection of private u.s citizens basically the cia used executive order 12-333 which was signed by reagan in 1981 to gather data on u.s citizens the letter notes the program was quote entirely outside the statutory framework that congress and the public believe govern the collection and without any judicial congressional or even executive branch oversight that comes from fisa that's the foreign intelligence surveillance act collection quote what these documents demonstrate is that many of the same concerns that americans have about their privacy and civil liberties also apply to how the cia collects and handles information under executive order and outside a fisa law in particular these documents reveal serious problems associated with warrantless backdoor searches of americans the same issue that had generated bipartisan concern in the visa i mean where where where is the mainstream media

SPEAKER_81: while they breathlessly run around chasing cancellation stories where are they to report and to hold accountable

SPEAKER_150: this stuff and where are politicians in actually doing their job but you know i don't think there's ever been this kind of overreach that's just constantly been going on with zero accountability or transparency into it you know the fbi is responsible for domestic laws right and the fbi has a very clear path in which they need to get warrants in order to be able to surveil u.s citizens and then the fact that we give

SPEAKER_87: an agency whose responsibility is actually foreign yes to be cia is supposed to work only on international

SPEAKER_61: not domestic and then to basically spy on its citizens with zero accountability reporting it seems to

SPEAKER_150: be a pretty important issue that should at least be discussed especially in a world now where executive power just keeps ramping up and ramping up what's going on and there's zero transparency or accountability

SPEAKER_233: if i didn't randomly see this on an aclu tweet would we even be talking about this probably not and the

SPEAKER_307: and the other thing that's no crazy about it is i think the way they get away with this chamath and

SPEAKER_77: this has been a something that the patriot act had um a similar technique is they the cia and some other

SPEAKER_02: organizations will track international people of interest you know money launderers etc and then say in order to track them well anybody they contact in america is fair game uh or if they're you know and so you

SPEAKER_93: can get the metadata from the phone calls and the emails and i think that's how a lot of this gets

SPEAKER_38: just what this letter seems to say is we just there's a broad scale surveillance program against u.s

SPEAKER_298: citizens that is indeterminate uh in scope and scale right so we don't know that seems very different

SPEAKER_49: than that and then in in parallel to this there's also that announcement that the department of homeland security is creating this major apparatus this infrastructure to go after domestic terrorists well look if they mean people who actually like set off bombs or commit real crimes fine but chamath you asked where the media is the media is defining routine political dissent as domestic terrorism now i mean you hear this type of threat inflation we've heard these truckers even described as

SPEAKER_146: insurrectionists so you know how are these programs going to be used is really the question you create this massive infrastructure under the executive branch we've seen that in washington this trend towards uh criminalizing political disagreements where democrats republicans have been putting their partisans in jail for years but are they now going to apply this to political disagreements in the country can they use these powers to go after truckers who are engaging in civil disobedience can they use these surveillance powers to go after somebody who just tweets things on social media that they don't like i mean these are the open questions yeah it's very scary well and

SPEAKER_02: it's also hard to determine because you might have some people on the right who are protesting uh something in a very valid way and then you get some whack jobs like the oath keepers who are bringing in tons of weapons outside the dc area on january 6th so there's a valid concern here with all those weapons the oath keepers brought and their plans to do a coordinated takeover after they first got in there but then you have the other dipshits who are there are probably just there to have fun and bang drums

SPEAKER_134: and support trump right do you think these truckers are engaged in an insurrection well i mean we don't

SPEAKER_02: know and i don't think so no i mean if they if they bring a bunch of guns then yes we should have

SPEAKER_87: concerns but i don't think they are the slippery slope is when you have an executive order that is

SPEAKER_81: not governed by the standard guardrails that we use to have checks and balances between these kinds of government agencies and the people and the elected officials that we elect here's how it basically gets in a really tricky place you have let's i'm just going to use justin trudeau's quote okay but replace that person with any politician in power hey there's a small fringe minority of people um who are on their way here they hold unacceptable views well you know what that person is going to do that person is going to want to do everything in their power to basically understand break apart um and tear up that fringe minority group now isn't that scary right when you have this overheated

SPEAKER_49: political rhetoric that describes your political opponents your your dissenters of the state yeah as enemies as white supremacists as nazis there as insurrectionaries as domestic terrorists why wouldn't

SPEAKER_146: then the law enforcement arms of our government then treat them that way i mean does the department of homeland security or the cia or the fbi do they understand that the politicians are just engaging in rhetoric in in threat inflation or will they take that those invocations literally to what we have

SPEAKER_61: to investigate and stop these i think they've done a department of justice done a pretty good job of that i just want i just brought this up because i think it's really important for somebody in the

SPEAKER_81: mainstream media of which many listen to this podcast sure you have a responsibility to actually double click into this issue and figure out what's going on please yeah for on behalf of all of us

SPEAKER_56: by the way like if you guys look i mean wall street journal new york times bbc everyone covered it today but the story today is that lawmakers made this claim with no details and no evidence so i'm sure the investigations are underway i mean the journalists are clearly leaning in to identify you know the the evidence behind the story and i'm sure more will come out over the coming days and weeks and in

SPEAKER_247: fairness like you said is the justice department doing this even handedly they were very specific

SPEAKER_77: with the the january 6 interactions acts where they went after oath keepers because they had a coordinated they're a militia they literally refer to themselves as militia and those people are getting treated very different than the people who broke glass or sat on pants pelosi's desk those people are getting three months suspended sentences six months sentences and the oath keepers who are a militia they call themselves a militia they're dangerous and they're treating them very differently and they're the only ones who are being charged with the more serious 10 to 20 year

SPEAKER_32: sentences so i would say they are doing a great job all right everybody this has been an amazing journey from uh truckers to joe rogan and all the way to uranus and back for the rain man david sax

SPEAKER_373: the sultan of science dude nobody knows your outro jason and the nevelyn dictator they know we are

SPEAKER_153: they live for the outro people love it oh my god love you boys we'll see you all next time

SPEAKER_208: on the online podcast bye bye bye i love you besties

SPEAKER_384: david sax

SPEAKER_395: i'm gonna source it to the feet

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