SPEAKER_00: the technology industry these these guys were all on acid and mushrooms and coming out of the the hippie zippy movement and they really were opening the doors of perception and then they were with computers at the same time yeah and you know imagine you're tripping on acid and you know you're also like using new technology for the first time you're like yeah i have some interesting ideas here we should make a mouse it's like a mouse what yeah it's like a little thing you move it around it moves the point or like literally a lot of these innovations happen from 60s radicals SPEAKER_05: you know um you know coming up with really interesting ideas this week in startups is SPEAKER_06: brought to you by linkedin jobs a business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters post your first job for free at linkedin.com twist dot tech domains has a new program called startups dot tech where you can get your company featured on this week in startups go to startups dot tech slash jason to find out how and super gut is the only nutrition brand clinically proven to improve digestion balance blood sugar sustain energy and manage weight save 25 on their delicious shakes bars and prebiotic mix at super gut dot com with code twist all right everybody welcome back to this SPEAKER_09: week in startups as you know ai has had a blistering year or two here in silicon valley and one of the reasons is we have so many amazing developers and the tools for developers who build interesting stuff have gotten better and better uh and one of those tools that you hear about all the time is replit SPEAKER_11: r-e-p-l-i-t uh in fact i decided to get into coding and i was talking to my friend sonny and he's like oh i just open replit do this blah blah blah and so i started playing with them they i started taking their uh 100 day python course got to day three or four and decided you know what i don't have the time to do this well it's gonna be incredibly frustrating for me but it's super inspiring uh to see how many people are getting into coding and how uh you know these um uh ides and we'll talk about that in a second uh have really made that possible for many more people i'm jod massad is SPEAKER_09: the co-founder and ceo of replit and he joins us today i'm john how you doing good i'm doing great SPEAKER_16: good to be back on the show we actually did a show really long time ago we did that's the first SPEAKER_18: time this has ever happened when did we do the show um in 2018 or 19 we're oh my lord baby company SPEAKER_20: small startup i mean at the time there was like tons of skepticism whether what we're doing is useful whether people want to use it or this idea we're putting out that a lot more people would want to SPEAKER_18: learn how to code a lot more people would want to make a make a career out of it oh right now i SPEAKER_22: remember you came on during the pandemic yeah right you just raised your series a oh yeah 2020 SPEAKER_24: early on 2020 yeah yeah um so ids why are these important you know when you're uh for any type of SPEAKER_20: uh job there's a environment that you need for that job that's both in physical life you know if you're doing something with your hand you need a workbench uh and software you know if you're an accountant your environment perhaps is an excel spreadsheet or any form of the new spreadsheets now coming out if you're a developer um your environment is either some kind of homegrown combination of a linux terminal and an editor and homegrown scripts and all of that which traditionally been the case or what's called an integrated development environment and that's SPEAKER_27: basically bringing together a lot of tools that make it easy to write debug test and run software SPEAKER_13: and a lot of features are starting to get added to that i think since the last time we spoke SPEAKER_11: um co-pilots uh you call yours ghost rider um and training obviously a lot of different features get SPEAKER_04: added to this so before these ides people would do what they would have just a collection of um SPEAKER_20: tools on their desktop yeah basically it's it's it's you know the the traditional view on this is that i just need an editor i just need a place to type code on such a hardcore coder i just need vi you know or vim or emacs and then um you know i'm just gonna like run my code and run compilation of my code i get whatever errors out of that i'll go back to my editor and fix that and that workflow kind of worked for a lot of people it's sort of hard it's hard to figure out it's hard to figure out all these tools but you know that that became for whatever reason the industry standard and at some point i think microsoft's would probably you know i'm sure some some history buffs can correct me on this but uh microsoft really mainstreamed the idea of of an ide and visual studio was one of the their bigger products uh early on and so they they put a lot of effort into making the development experience on windows uh and that's something by the way it's missing in the history of silicon valley like how much of success of these companies apple included and microsoft is about really building the best development environment in the world you know apple puts a lot of work into xcode into their sdks and their apis and microsoft has done the same now when the shift happened towards more open source and linux and unix we we lost a lot of that and and we went back to this hodgepodge of tools figure it out SPEAKER_36: yourself and people would use a text editor essentially vims a text editor at a school basically it's like a SPEAKER_39: stripped down word processor exactly and you could like add things so you can script it whatever some SPEAKER_20: people enjoy that process but it it really sort of hindered um a lot of people from accessing this this field because the first thing you see is this blank terminal thing yeah it doesn't look intuitive it doesn't look like anything you would want to do anything in um and so replets initial product was that not only we're going to make this uh ide on top of open source software everything from the ground up is open source uh that we're building on but also we're going to put it in the browser or we can make it so easy you're going to go again like your friend anyone today is like interested in kicking the tires SPEAKER_41: doing something with software you just go to replet sign up in a few minutes and you have an environment SPEAKER_13: and you can start coding yeah and the ability to have a co-pilot and to debug has taken some of the SPEAKER_00: harder aspects of being a coder especially if you're a solo coder um it's changed things dramatically so maybe you could talk a little bit about the impact of i think i don't know what you call debuggers that SPEAKER_45: explain why this is wrong and how sophisticated they've gotten it's not just reporting back like SPEAKER_11: here's the era they've gotten more sophisticated than so maybe a little bit on both sides of that the SPEAKER_47: ghost rider the co-pilot and these more sophisticated debugging tools yeah again going back SPEAKER_41: to microsoft and actually some microsystems and uh if you know there's an investor in droplet right SPEAKER_39: now but uh there's a lot of these bigger companies what they've done with java or c-sharp or these development environments is they built what was called intellisense at the time it's sort of this SPEAKER_20: classical ai that figures out the symbols in your application and a lot and gives you these auto complete tools that help you kind of type less and for the computer to help you kind of debug your code and give you some intelligence of course it's all classical intelligence so it's all symbolic right like it's all algorithm algorithmic we're trying to find um you know we're creating this parse tree SPEAKER_39: we're trying to find the structure between the code it's really really hard stuff and i worked on this stuff for a long time at facebook and and other companies um the thing that was missing this whole time is that actually you could represent code statistically uh and in you can apply the same methods we apply in natural language so nlp natural language processing on code and this was not obvious a lot of people for a long time there was a paper that i think was sort of a seminal paper in this era called on the on the naturalness of software in 2012 and it presented the idea that you can actually look at software as sort of like natural language it's very repetitive it has certain structures it has certain semantic um and then you have the deep learning revolution people started applying natural language processing uh uh applying deep learning and natural language processing and then SPEAKER_20: you get into what happened with gpt you know starting with transformers birds and then gpt2 that's when to me it started looking obvious that okay these tools are going to completely disrupt how we write code it's going to change the mechanics of how the machine can helps us write code how we can become more productive uh and so we actually started building on top of that um really early on uh and we were like the first major company outside of microsoft to release a copilot type product and we did it in a way that we didn't actually rely on open ai we actually did an open source model and we trained our model and we open source it as well um and that technology now has become accessible such that really anyone anyone can do it so how does it change software well for one our autocomplete tools become a lot more um powerful right you type a little bit of code you type even natural language command SPEAKER_39: and ai based on its training based on reading all of github and all of open source code out there it knows that you know every time you are importing this library SPEAKER_20: and you're kind of doing this function that way that you probably wanted to do it to to write the rest SPEAKER_39: of the code in this way so it'll prevent it'll present a suggestion so that's the sort of co-pilot SPEAKER_37: interaction but it doesn't stop there uh so that's really a typing aid at the end of the day it's really SPEAKER_52: helping you type less creating a job and finding qualified candidates it's so time consuming don't SPEAKER_55: i know it oh i'm trying to add five positions right now because things are going so well at the launch fund but you know what i have a secret weapon and i'm going to share it with you linkedin jobs they're about to hit a billion users over at linkedin so just think about all the insanely qualified people that are there looking for work you just go post your role on linkedin and you will be a hundred percent certain that you got access to the most qualified candidates and guess what first one's on us that's right first drinks on us go to linkedin.com twist and post your first job for free you got nothing to lose and that will give you that purple ring on your profile you see that everybody's got the purple ring now that means everybody in your network knows you're hiring they click on it and you'll get those friends of friends right those are the really high quality leads that you want applying to your job because there's someone in your network who can vet them so i did that for launch and i do it for inside and we found so many amazing people at our company when you think linkedin jobs i want you to think better candidates faster let me say that one more time better candidates faster linkedin jobs will help you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to faster post your job for free at linkedin.com twist that's linkedin.com twist to post your job for SPEAKER_13: free terms and conditions to apply and for people who are not coders you you experience this now when SPEAKER_00: you're using notion uh or microsoft word or gmail it's just here's the next possible words would love to and it's invite you to whatever and it's studying what you've been writing emails about so SPEAKER_11: it's for it's precisely for you and it's based on the whole corpus of you know people writing in you SPEAKER_30: know on the open web so fascinating how much more impactful it is in coding right because coding is a higher value typically than what people are writing in email SPEAKER_39: and it's been harder to apply this technologies on code so it really took until gpt2 and gpt3 for this to actually become possible because we've had we've had these suggest suggestion tools for a long time for natural language but not for code but once these models got big enough and intelligent enough now they're able to complete code because code needs to be structured needs to be parsed needs to be run needs to be correct whereas natural language doesn't have a lot of these properties SPEAKER_20: now but but it doesn't stop there and i think that's useful and it really um made a lot of programmers a lot more productive uh but but typing is like perhaps 10 of what we do uh as programmers most of the time we're staring at error logs other times we have we have a crash in in production where we get an email we get a pm kind of coming to us and saying hey like you know the software's crashing you know fix that we get a bug whatever it is and this is i think where it gets really exciting because SPEAKER_39: this is where we can start to get multiples more productivity i think with a copilot interaction at best SPEAKER_20: some people are saying it's 80 making me 80 more productive but can we get 2x 5x 10x more productive this is where leveraging ai to help you through the entire software life cycle uh comes in and this SPEAKER_39: is where replet i think is very well positioned because replet is full fully bundled environment so from your first line of code to your first deployment to your scale deployment so we take the entire software life cycle and we package it in one place now we can inject ai exactly at the right places to be able to help you in this crucial moment when when you get it when SPEAKER_20: you get this crash of production now the next stage after that yeah just to mention the next stage after that is is agents and you know agents are still primitive right now but we there's a let's define that SPEAKER_11: was exactly where i was going so let's define an agent for the audience and how that might work SPEAKER_71: you know if you were building you know uber today or you were building airbnb today right so uh the way SPEAKER_20: we use ai today in this co-pilot fashion and this autocomplete fashion is that i am doing the driving as a human i am doing the thing and there's something that's augmenting my behavior such that SPEAKER_39: is making it easier to code or type or do something agent inverts that a little bit and you give the agent one instruction one higher level goal and the agent is responsible for breaking down that task into subtasks and for going and executing those tasks in an autonomous fashion and what that commits you SPEAKER_20: to is that the agent needs to actually be able to recover from errors needs to be able to uh recover from a lot of edge cases that you face in the real world and you know some people say you know talk SPEAKER_39: about agents with a human in the loop but for the most part what we want is agents to be fully autonomous SPEAKER_20: to be able to do work on our on our behalf um and you know for example to i i should be able to you know tell siri like a high level goal such as you know my wife and i you know today's our anniversary um date and i want to go out to a nice restaurant you should be able to figure out okay i need to go research nice restaurants in palo alto i need to figure out like the budget on those i need to call them one by one and and and get a reservation and then report back to my user what exactly happened and the flow that happened and whether there were errors or what have you so this is where agents get a little more exciting than the way we're using ais today and in the case of building a business SPEAKER_11: building a startup uh it could be hey i want to build a marketplace okay buyers and sellers take rate SPEAKER_00: it would know a lot of these fundamental items and then it would know what kind of code oh you need a profile page oh you know what what's on the profile page describe it oh it's a home okay what are you gonna do with the home sell it rent it you know uh do um you know home maintenance tasks you would have a whole uh bevy of of possibilities that the agent would be then able to go build how far SPEAKER_11: is that is that even on your road map to start thinking like that you're building an app and you're SPEAKER_83: dealing with non-developers uh yeah yeah one milestone we're trying to hit this year is to be able to SPEAKER_20: tell an agent i want like a login page or something like that like just one feature that's very concrete that developers do every day and for that agent to be able to fork off your environment which is very easy to do in replit and for you to be able to watch it and go and try to build that and run into errors or recover from those errors and then come back to you with the code saying here i finish it and then there's a cursive loop where you say okay this is good this is not good it's sort of similar to how you're dealing with a junior engineer yeah so let's try to automate that really simple like junior engineering interaction uh you have and i think from there it could progress really rapidly the the thing you talked about where i can tell it go build me a marketplace startup it feels very far away it feels it feels probably five years away um but who knows i mean the way these things have been moving is it's you know what i tell my team is that we just need to be very uh reactive to the changes in the SPEAKER_39: ai space and we're we're at the bleeding edge of it and we make a lot of the major some some major contributions to the field as well but uh who knows like maybe there's an unlock later this year or next year that the vision that you just put out could be possible next year but my estimation currently SPEAKER_20: is that we're going to get asymptotically closer to that over the next five years yeah the thing SPEAKER_13: that's really obvious when you had user registration is hey like there are some best practices here one of the best practices is uh using a magic link like uh i think slack was really pioneered or maybe was SPEAKER_11: craigslist before them i did that as well um phone number do you want to use google facebook twitter x you SPEAKER_13: know whichever to do those logins and so it's something you're uniquely qualified to do because you SPEAKER_10: get to see i don't know how many millions of developers hundreds of that i would suspect hundreds SPEAKER_11: of thousands of developers on repli now millions millions of developers in repli uh which is pretty SPEAKER_07: impressive um you know that that alone gives you an insight into oh yeah people are doing the magic SPEAKER_09: link thing oh they are using phones and everybody yeah go ahead and also we have the bounties platform SPEAKER_93: i i remember that you've also checked it out yeah i did pretty amazing yeah explain the uh bounties SPEAKER_20: program yeah yeah so um you know because repli just on boards this uh a huge number of people from all over the world onto programming one of the things that i found challenging when i talked to to these SPEAKER_39: developers is that landing their first job is actually quite quite difficult uh because people SPEAKER_37: want experience and all of that but a lot of these people when you look at their profiles when you look at their repli profiles that are actually better than a lot of silicon valley engineers so what is SPEAKER_39: the best way to show that they're better is to create a platform where they have real work for real customers or real clients available on that platform at the same time they can make money and maybe that could be a business for us that we could make money out of but that's really not the priority here the priority is to showcase that we have a huge number of developers around the world SPEAKER_20: uh that are you know ai powered now and i can build amazing things really fast and really cheaply yeah um and so we put it out and in a matter of months it reached a million annualized gmv we should have sort of hit on something it's basically we had this backlog of developers that are hungry to do work and show SPEAKER_39: that they are able to do work and that created this explosion yeah and surplus and you have surplus SPEAKER_13: cycles there are developers who have you know maybe they they it's a saturday and you know whatever their plans fell through they got four hours and you put up a little challenge and like that's easy SPEAKER_93: i'll i'll take that 500 it's free money i'll pick it up off the ground um yeah one of the things that SPEAKER_72: was surprising was um i didn't expect like big tech employees to be engaged in that but one of our SPEAKER_20: biggest bounty hunters is uh is this uh sre at at vmware that does it on the weekends and on the plane and it's a game for him and he's making all this all this money but for us it's also a very valuable source of data to be able to make our ai better as well like we you know when you're able to match uh project description to output of work uh you know we're going to be able to make the agent SPEAKER_39: um thing work a lot better and also we want the developers to the bounties developers and developers on repli to be able to use that to increase their earning potential and to become more productive so it is you know one thing from the start you know at repli we've we've been very SPEAKER_20: clear on is that we're not one of these companies trying to build agi we're trying to build adi artificial developer intelligence we're trying to augment you as a developer as a solo entrepreneur as someone who wants to build a business online someone who wants to participate in the global digital economy we want to supercharge you such that you it feels like you have an army of developer SPEAKER_103: developers working for you stop what you're doing right now i got great news dot tech domains is SPEAKER_105: giving twist listeners a new platform to show off their startups and that platform is this podcast this week in startups it's a new segment we're calling pitch jcal i want you to go to startups dot tech slash jason startups dot t-e-c-h slash jason to apply there's only one rule you have to have a dot tech domain name to get featured this week i received a great pitch from hive power dot tech that's h-i-v-e power dot tech which you can see in the video right now if you're watching hive power is a swiss startup they're working on transforming energy management and their software platform helps businesses optimize ev charging distribute energy more effectively and more energy prices have gotten out of control they're volatile so hive power is saving businesses money by optimizing energy efficiently like all these different times when you can get discounts on your energy it's a huge market and they got a great domain name check them out hive power dot tech and if you're interested in getting feature on this weekend startups go to startups dot tech slash jason and apply today that's startups dot tech slash jason SPEAKER_38: it's interesting while you were talking i was like huh i wonder if chat gpt could actually uh SPEAKER_00: you know build a plan and so i asked chat gpt please build me a feature set for a modern day marketplace uh for folks to rent vacation homes and cars so it's certainly here's the features but i i have in my SPEAKER_11: instructions with chat gpt4 that i like things in tables with links and it says here's the feature category here's the feature description here's the stakeholder and here's your data source or api user registration enable users to create an account via email social media or google and to your point you'll have that done by the end of the year i actually believe you'll be able to do that user profile allow user to upload photos id and basic information search engine with filters like location price rating amenities calendar availability payment gateway listing creation pricing engine SPEAKER_01: enable dynamic pricing based on demand location and time that feels like something actually a pricing SPEAKER_11: engine could be something that could be built into replet uh inventory management uh a review system that's it that's a layup star ratings also a layup dashboard give administration overview bookings revenue fraud detection that would definitely i mean there's third party services that do that you plug in analytics third-party services i mean that's after one prompt you know if we sat here and we started prompt engineering this and then connected it to replet uh a year from now i don't know maybe half SPEAKER_78: this stuff gets done or at least some portion actually actually today even ghostwriter i mean i'll uh i can show you a quick demo of uh what it looks like today um so here i just started uh node.js repl uh SPEAKER_114: what we call projects uh and uh and basically i have just one file you can start by writing code but i can also generate code uh let's say make a login page with express js and i'll start writing the the SPEAKER_95: entire function for me it's still not an agent in the way i describe it because i'm looking at what it's doing and i'm reviewing what it's doing what we want is for it to actually be able to do all of that run the code itself uh be able to deploy the code and be able to get feedback on it uh but you know right now it just made this login page right here right and okay it's a start and we can iterate on that from here it can just say let's uh i can right click edit code and just say add some SPEAKER_33: css to make it nicer yeah uh and i can iterate uh with it but we want to get to a place where it does that sort of iteration on its own yeah it's pretty pretty slick already SPEAKER_11: yeah uh when you think about it and you know there are so many problems in the world you know everybody gets to like oh it's going to replace developers it's like yeah until we have a solution for every problem that humans face uh i think developers are going to stay busy what this really means is the typical startup is going to release features faster and make them better uh continuously SPEAKER_07: and faster just like open source was a catalyst just like ids were a catalyst just like cloud was a catalyst all this stuff just makes everything go faster and the average app today compared to the average app just 10 years ago you know in the app store and the app store is only whatever number SPEAKER_126: of years old that is now um maybe it's 15 years old when the app store started 2007 or 8. i think SPEAKER_95: 2009 uh nine because 2009 remember steve jobs didn't want an app store he thought thought the web would SPEAKER_20: be enough of an app store yeah yeah not quite by the way this we just added this feature to be able to deploy your app right from replit so so this means you're in competition with aws when you do this you'll be like a hosting company in addition to yes our vision from the start is to do the end-to-end process and again this is where we can do interesting things with artificial intelligence such that the SPEAKER_95: ai can deploy the ai can figure out the errors in production and iterate on them as well um but you know um i think in the future we might even partner with aws right now with partnered with google cloud SPEAKER_39: so we're building a lot of these features on google cloud and i think the space enough for for a lot of SPEAKER_20: players to to compete what we care about is really that polished end-to-end developer experience and SPEAKER_83: we've seen no one do that everyone picks a niche to be really good at and we want to be good at the SPEAKER_30: end thing i mean eventually you could be cloud independent or multi-cloud and when you click deploy SPEAKER_38: or you want to put into production you could they could compete for your business it could give you SPEAKER_11: three different prices for this right and you could list them in rank order of what it will cost to run these here right and then i believe there are you know i get pitched on this startup all the time SPEAKER_00: hey we'll examine your cloud bill and we'll optimize it by putting you on you know i don't know if they SPEAKER_11: call them second tier servers but maybe not as powerful uh servers and stuff like that uh that are unnecessary for your job and just optimize your costs uh while not compromising your performance uh SPEAKER_78: all that's a possibility yeah yeah and and that's it we got we gotta we gotta deploy going and you get you get some nice analytics and logs and everything sort of built right in um and you know that that SPEAKER_20: deploy button could could also go to your vps or to your internal deployment i think once we go into the enterprise in the future if they have on-prem thing we could also package a container and put it on SPEAKER_30: there on-prem as well just mean you compete with like um github and those kind of repositories now and SPEAKER_95: or you know let me show you the community in addition to a lot of the bounty stuff that we talked about which is here you can see all the tasks you can you can start doing um there's also uh a lot of uh uh you know uh a lot of apps inside the replica community that you can check out right like you can go to this app it's called oracle gpt it's a chat assistant i can go look at how the developer has built SPEAKER_20: it i can uh run it or i can fork it and have uh and and change it and so it adds a layer that github SPEAKER_95: never really added which is how do you actually uh how do you actually run this stuff and not just view the code and download it locally but i can actually bring it into my environment and mess with it and publish it and uh and you know we have this community where people vote on things and tip each other uh and so it adds a layer that you know i think github never really added what about hugging SPEAKER_00: face are they a competitor to yours now or uh coexister how do you look at hugging face i hear a lot SPEAKER_72: of developers you know starting there hugging face i think they they're they're on repli they have SPEAKER_95: they have some examples on repli that they built uh and you can like fork them and play with them SPEAKER_20: you know jason the way we think about competition and the way we think about just the landscape in general is that we really want to be the place where people create and so if you help people create we want to partner with you so if you're hugging face and you're helping people create uh ai uh by hosting models um and by training models then developers on repli should be able to use those SPEAKER_33: models right from hugging face so in a lot of ways repli becomes this positive sum playground for SPEAKER_39: everyone to play in and that's really our vision for for this company uh and getting more people SPEAKER_00: to become developers and making it easy to onboard have you given thought to that you know i know SPEAKER_11: you had this like great like i don't know if it was 30 days to learn python or 100 days or whatever SPEAKER_154: yeah it's 100 days yeah 100 days so we have it in hindi too oh wow that's fascinating you know because SPEAKER_80: when i went i did the first couple of days i was like wow this is incredible it is literally walking SPEAKER_11: me through it with a video with the code you know it's almost like a little bit of a game right is this working to getting more young people or even people who are transitioning into being a developer is it is it actually increasing the number of developers in the world or do you kind of think like some SPEAKER_160: people do hey developing is you know a certain type of person digs it and it's not for everybody SPEAKER_95: yeah so i i think about it as sort of these concentric circles right where you know at the very inner part of the circle you have those let's call them platform developers you typically you're living in in silicon valley or you know or seattle and you're working at on aws or google cloud or one of these like you know hardcore kind of platform companies you're writing low-level code right then you have a SPEAKER_39: lot of product engineers those product engineers are founders are people working at startups or full SPEAKER_95: stack engineers and i think that that's a lot more accessible than people think it is right if you're SPEAKER_20: a product engineer you you are basically uh your day-to-day job is waking up in the morning and translating some user demand or user story or something that pm told you to do or designer told you to do or you're a founder you're trying to meet some some demand in the market into code and code is sort SPEAKER_39: of incidental to your goal your goal is to put software out into the world yes uh and i think a lot more people can participate in that in a lot of different ways one is we can make code more accessible and more learnable and that's what we're doing two i think there's a lot a lot of uh opportunity for uh ai to help with this such as ai is writing the code for you yep three i think some SPEAKER_20: version of no code might work i'm not a big fan of the way people are doing it right now because SPEAKER_39: they're basically recreating the programming environment using blocks and things like that and that's not very scalable but i think there someone will figure out a no code environment that actually SPEAKER_78: makes sense and interesting so let's let's double click on the no code piece the it right now is SPEAKER_11: somewhere between like uh a whizzy wig what you see is what you get type environment you're dragging things around and then it abstracts the code and then it writes the code on the back end you don't get to see it um nor do you need to and though it seems like and then there's like sort of scripting hey if this happens do this uh and it's kind of light but it is building a whole facade on top of SPEAKER_00: some code base yes is i guess how this is all working and so you're sort of proposing what yeah so SPEAKER_20: so the way it works is that they have these pre-book programmed visual components that you are kind of composing together broadly is how it works and you can double click on one of those components and edit some of its features or even write code and this is where you get into some local platforms the problem is that what you want out of your computing environment is to be turing complete so turing completeness is the idea that um is the idea of a universal computation is that the the the computing machine can run any other program that any other computing machine can run right so this is a very technical concept but it basically means that every programming language today that we have that's in use is turing complete so turing completeness is a necessity for this thing to actually encompass all sorts of features that you need in order to build a real world software and most of these SPEAKER_39: environments are not turing complete if they try to be true and complete it becomes really hard to SPEAKER_20: manage it becomes really wild it's it's actually the visual components actually get into the way in the way of actually producing the software so it's it's a scalability problem so you end up either simplifying too much and you're not turing complete or if you want to be turing complete you run to a scalability problem so that's really it's it's sort of a it's that's why you see a lot of these new code platform grow really fast and then they hit a ceiling and then they stop growing a lot as even as a business it's because um the demand they can't they can't expand the demand much more than that SPEAKER_86: because their users are heading these ceilings with their products you have heard me talk about my SPEAKER_103: weight loss journey and the role that super gut has played in it super gut is just an amazing product SPEAKER_105: they were a huge hit at the all-in summit i love their bars i love their shakes in fact here it is i was just drinking this shake my wife makes a beautiful shake for us every morning i love the chocolate brownie bar and they have unflavored prebiotic mix that you can add to anything my wife puts it in my coffee you know she's trying to keep me healthy she wants to keep me around for a little while i can't blame her i'm a fun time there's a reason why super guide is so good for weight loss super guide is so good for weight loss okay the super good product you may not know this they mimic the effects of osempic by boosting your glp1 hormone and this will help quell your hunger and it's going to boost your metabolism that's the combo you're looking for products taste great tons of great flavors strawberry chocolate all the stuff you love but here's the thing this is all proven scientifically the sultan of science himself david freeberg is the co-founder of this company they conducted a placebo controlled clinical trial with stanford you may have heard of that university last year and that's been published in the medical journal diabetes obesity metabolism the results amazing participants lost weight just like me they lowered their blood sugar and they improved their metabolic health it also helped with digestion so it tastes great it's going to help you lose weight if you want to improve your gut health you want to drop a few pounds or you just want to feel sustained energy throughout the day do what i did go to supergot.com and use the promo code twist to get 25 SPEAKER_178: off supergot.com use the promo code twist to get 25 off what a great deal SPEAKER_07: so making coding um more like talking to the computer i guess is where this is going to end up and using a natural language known as english to program is how many people in the ai space have SPEAKER_181: been proposing this will end up have you used the code interpreter i have not you should check it out SPEAKER_95: i think you would like it so chat gpt has this mode called code interpreter where you're talking to chat gpt but behind the scenes is writing code and running it to help you to help it answer questions um Chamath Palihapitiya: i have used it yes i've uploaded like csvs to it and then asked the questions about the data that was uploaded because you can use it for that function as well right yeah and that shows you the promise SPEAKER_20: right i mean there there is something there it still hallucinates a little bit and does kind of some some some some silly things but it seems possible and i think talking to you know i i've been reading the new uh steve jobs book uh make something wonderful and i didn't know about that book who wrote that is it so laureen uh jobs uh put together all of steve's writings uh for all his lives and in a SPEAKER_95: almost chronological way kind of lays out oh wow his life's where it's amazing it's phenomenal SPEAKER_09: um and uh oh that's a free ebook look at this this is amazing i yeah steve jobs archive.com yeah make something wonderful steve jobs in his own words wow it's available on apple books or you can just download it for free i had no idea about this okay so continue what did you get out of it i i'm a like a big SPEAKER_33: student of computing history and silicon valley history because i think to to to understand where SPEAKER_20: we go from here we have to understand the past and how we arrived here there are a lot of amazing things about how we made computers and technology but there are a lot of drawbacks as well one of the drawbacks i'm trying to fix is that we've created a generation of computer consumers not computer SPEAKER_39: programmers and users right think about how most people use computers today it's basically a consumption device you're watching tick tock and youtube and maybe it's a communication device maybe SPEAKER_20: you're talking texting but the original vision for computers is that it augments our intelligence it actually computes for us and we've really lost a little bit of that and so i think steve jobs was uh phenomenal as as a designer and entrepreneur uh and really the goat in a lot of ways but some of the decisions they made were obviously guided by this idea that people can't compute or people can't program actually there's a line in the book that i found which i kind of went looking for which is initially they were having trouble explaining the value proposition behind the apple too because you buy this thing and you open it up as just a terminal you can't really you don't know what to do with it and you have to learn basic in order to program it and what steve jobs arrived at is that actually people shouldn't learn how to program and we need to build uis and gui because people should just use computers as opposed to program computers and that decision put us on this history path of actually users and programmers are separate SPEAKER_39: instead of instead of being one and i think there's a vision of the future is a lot more exciting where anyone can be a creator any anyone can use computers to their full power yeah and it's i mean SPEAKER_11: you see this in generative ai right so we've been talking about coding this whole time but you know if you wanted to be an artist and make a logo you wanted to make the next logo speaking of steve jobs you know this is something that you went to art school for a long time but if you start talking to stable diffusion and some of the other tools out there dolly and you said like hey what are the most iconic logo or yes chat gpt what are the most iconic logos of all time then you start using stable diffusion to make something you know just based on the creativity in your words you might start to find things or ideas that you wouldn't have thought of this is where like the writer strike when you when you look at the writer strike and they're saying stop we want to ban chat gpt i'm looking at it i'm like no you actually don't you're all using it anyway um and if you go into any of these language models and you start just brainstorming ideas it's just a more efficient way than reading 10 books uh you know about science fiction let's say you can just see which you know tickles your fancy uh in terms of ideas and it's going to come up like you said with hallucinations or bad ideas but that's how you get to great ideas you get through all the bad ones right and that's right you have these jumping off points where you know something sparks your creativity oh yeah what if deckard is a replicant oh that's a great interesting idea you know and blade runner like oh wow spoiler alert um you know these ideas typically come because people are brainstorming smoking a joint or drinking some beers or going for a walk and you know something just pops into their head like it's almost like the hallucination of these language models is a feature it's a feature it's like SPEAKER_01: mimicking these weird moments when people are tripping out you know from their cold bath or SPEAKER_11: from taking mushrooms or going on a hike or taking a shower whatever whatever got their creative juices flowing i think that that might be what's literally happening is we're you know as we recreate this intelligence starting to realize like maybe it's not that unique you know how our brains work maybe SPEAKER_07: there's some magical aspects to it but i almost feel like we're figuring out how our own brains work SPEAKER_27: when we build these things one of one of the reasons i got into computers uh as as a kid was SPEAKER_20: because the you know i i've been always into computers but the thing that really attracted me to become a programmer and eventually want to be able to do ai is because i wanted to understand the human mind like it was like it's one of those questions that i can't stop thinking about what makes us us what makes us thinking beings and i think once you understand all these things you kind of start to SPEAKER_95: potentially understand the meaning of things which is have a very existential drive in me to actually try to understand you know what makes humans humans and and i think there's the there's what's called in SPEAKER_20: philosophy the hard problem of consciousness we can't really probe consciousness because it is inabsorbable from a scientific point of view you can have a complete description of the brain but SPEAKER_95: you can't really understand what's going on inside whereas now that we have these machines we can actually try to prove them from the inside and in interesting ways uh actually a lot of uh neuroscience now is SPEAKER_20: making its way back into ai and one of the ways people are like playing with ais is what happens if we turn off this neuron what happens if we turn off this layer what happens yeah and what is the you know i i think they're called ablation so it's kind of like you're you're running this process to be able to judge performance based on different different ways the neural network is structured and i think you're right that starts to give us some understanding of how intelligence works yeah and i think that's really exciting and it'd be great it'd be really great if philosophers if a lot of people from the liberal arts um side of of humanity is actually interested in these things because that's that's an exciting moment it's kind of disheartening that a lot of artists are offended by it or or are not really SPEAKER_13: excited by it but hoping they would come around to it yeah and we have some corollaries in psychology SPEAKER_00: and brain science you know you have these uh what are they called split hemispheres where people have had their hemisphere split or you know twin studies you have all these like interesting you know people have different damage that has occurred to their brain tragically and we started to figure out just through those biological circumstances you know some of the oddities of the human brain and consciousness and how we perceive the world right um have you seen some of them have you seen this um really wild SPEAKER_20: video where you know if you have epilepsy one way to cure it is you you sever the hemispheres yeah uh and so that way the epilepsy doesn't travel back and forth and there was a video on youtube about a guy with a severed hemisphere and they were trying to kind of probe and understand like what happens to humans when we actually sever the light left and right uh sections of our brains and and the experiments were fascinating so basically they gave each eye different video feed um i think the the right eye is connected to the left hemisphere and the left uh eye is connected to the right hemisphere one of them is the language center i i forgot which but you basically give an instruction to them on language center like go to this side of the room and grab this other thing and you don't give that instruction to the other side the side is able to talk and you actually the the the subject actually stands up and walks over to that SPEAKER_171: side of the room and the experimenters will ask him like why did you go there and he would hallucinate SPEAKER_222: because he did he doesn't have in that side of the brain that talks doesn't have the information SPEAKER_95: to be able to say i was told to go there and so he hallucinates oh i want to go to the bathroom SPEAKER_45: yeah and that's really fascinating that's wild yeah he's basically taking the next guess like we were talking about with auto complete like why would i get up well the bathroom's in that direction and so SPEAKER_04: that's the next possible word you know i'd love to invite you to dinner the movies like what are SPEAKER_00: the possibilities here could be getting a a glass of water i could be going to the bathroom it's probably one of those uh two yeah it's it's really fascinating how quickly this is all uh happening i'm SPEAKER_11: curious your thoughts on like what are you seeing internally with your team i don't know how many developers you have on your team but you got a front row seat you guys are obviously uh all true believers in using you know these ghost riders and co-pilots and and using ai what has the last SPEAKER_227: year been like in terms of your team's productivity and and how much are you embracing ai and running repli SPEAKER_20: you know the again on an individual developer perspective we see our developers are a lot more engage a lot happier and a lot excited about writing code because you know it just removes a lot of the SPEAKER_83: drudgery of writing code on a kind of a company scale level i i like i don't think we've seen a huge productivity improvements and again that's because the thing that is lost between actually writing the code and and actually deploying a product there's everything that happens in between that ai hasn't touched yet and this is why we're really excited about it because even if you make the individual developers slightly more productive by you know making it easier to generate code it still doesn't SPEAKER_20: translate you know very well for it to be perceptible from a ceo point of view um in a solo entrepreneur perspective it it 100 is and what we're seeing of our customers i mean we we we have um this uh this guy on twitter actually he built uh 250k arr business on repli and he didn't know how to write SPEAKER_33: any code coming into this he just used chapter gpt and repli and ghostwriter and other tools to kind of figure out how to write the code himself he doesn't even know how to use git and he built this huge business uh for himself doing that and obviously that would not be possible SPEAKER_20: without ai we're seeing all these stories of solo entrepreneurs or small companies getting a lot of benefit out of this but for it to actually move um the gdp or even smaller move move like productivity of the tech industry as a whole there's still a lot more work to be done so people SPEAKER_13: enjoying the job more maybe some products are shipping faster are you seeing that yet the SPEAKER_231: products are shipping faster or maybe not we were known for being super fast already yeah SPEAKER_20: as a kind of velocities and that's over there yeah so uh you know it wasn't that uh perceptible there's definitely it definitely feels like we're prototyping things a lot faster ah and there's there's a lot of prototypes flying around on goal maybe more shots on goal that's right and you know instead of getting into a meeting and talking about an idea you get actually a prototype pretty SPEAKER_204: quickly oh that's very well see this is so powerful that maybe we're like you and i are agreeing so SPEAKER_11: quickly on it but it's that's super profound if people are coming to the meeting instead of saying we should build this or saying i built this and then two other people say i built this well now you as the ceo or the management team we're going to look at the three ideas and say okay let's test this one then we'll test this one yeah and then we'll test this one yeah our designers are shipping these SPEAKER_95: repli links between each other and i see a designer instead of waiting for the engineer to do this thing SPEAKER_20: they'll just like post like here's here's the new repli link for for my change for my css change or my visual change interesting definitely seeing that velocity of ideas and prototype uh inside the company SPEAKER_11: it's almost like if we were running a restaurant you would be you know having people instead of SPEAKER_00: like coming and say hey i want to try a duck dish or whatever they should be coming but like here's the finished dish or here's like a approximation of my new deconstructed you know peaking duck and then everybody just tasted it yeah you know what we should keep pulling that string and see where it leads us i think that's like if you think about the nature of startups and finding product market fit and SPEAKER_111: product velocity that's really a game changer um that's perhaps more important than shipping fast to SPEAKER_20: your point is you know the other day i was talking to um jack dorsey came and visited her upload his SPEAKER_95: uh he's a repli user he's really excited about it and he said something that in the early days of square every time they wanted to trial a new design they would have to ship the design to china to to fabricate and come back and then they started investing in in 3d printing and that increased the SPEAKER_20: product velocity so much such that you know designs were changing every day and they were SPEAKER_39: getting the right thing faster and he equated what we're doing to software as to 3d printing SPEAKER_30: yeah that makes total sense and if you think like he's been such a great entrepreneur i just had SPEAKER_11: rule off on the from sequoia on the program and they started with you know small to medium-sized businesses even people in flea markets just you know being able to take credit cards for the first SPEAKER_126: time instead of cash and sending people to a cash machine with a seven dollar fee in some bodega or SPEAKER_11: something to like yeah you can just take any credit card um and fire that up and then he was so bold he's like you know what i'd like to do is um i'd like to create a second product inside this SPEAKER_246: company just for consumers cash app boom and now cash app is this gigantic business it's huge SPEAKER_114: um well he's the third business uh jason that nobody's talking about their bitcoin business SPEAKER_20: yeah explain yeah the last quarter i think they saw three billion dollars in revenue obviously it's still not monetizable revenue but three billion dollars in bitcoin volume yeah volume right which SPEAKER_95: is which is wild um and and now they're building uh their tbd product which is still still tbd in progress but the idea is to just make it such that you know you can move bitcoin across the globe really SPEAKER_20: easily and so that square and cash app can sit on this bitcoin rails and be accessible all over the SPEAKER_30: globe and i think that's a really huge vision yeah and that really is like shots on goal you know and uh that's the thing that's going to just keep increasing uh with tools like that's what gets me excited SPEAKER_95: about technology i mean i think i think the tech industry got a little boring towards the the last SPEAKER_255: uh decade towards the last part of the last decade last cycle yeah like 2017 18 19 everybody's making SPEAKER_256: you know like the next app that's already existed 20 times yeah or the next sass yeah um and it became very SPEAKER_78: formulaic and i think now we're back into a period of innovation where we're going to actually be able to lift the the common human being and be able to supply them with tools and intelligence and computation SPEAKER_20: and make really try to make the world a better place and kind of go back to this roots of like you know it just became cliche almost to say you were here to make the world a better place but i think SPEAKER_260: that's really why i'm here and why i'm doing what i'm doing at replet yeah you know it's like it's so SPEAKER_00: wild when a new paradigm shift happens now that i've lived through so many of them like i i i expect SPEAKER_07: them to happen and then i just understand how they kind of go through the hype cycle and everything SPEAKER_11: you know it's mobile or cloud or crypto and now ai and it's really like a chance to take things that exist in the world already and just make them phenomenally better because this new platform technology technique however you want to frame you know cloud computing etc you think about something like youtube and i was talking to roll off about this as well in this episode that's coming out on this week startups where you know he did that youtube investment and you know nobody wanted to invest in youtube everybody thought it was stupid people who had a lot of experience like SPEAKER_04: mark cuban were like yeah i don't think netflix and youtube are going to work because it's going to flood the internet with traffic that it can't handle and then you know the blind spot was i think SPEAKER_01: storage had gotten so much cheaper in cloud computing and then bandwidth was getting more efficient compression algorithms that actually you could let people upload videos and get as many views as they want and just for a couple of low dollar cpm be able to actually break even and then eventually make money right even with the amount think about the just insane amount of uploads that happened on youtube and and how that was burning just mountains of cash mountains of cash being burned for storage for dropbox and for for at least dropbox had you know a paid version and SPEAKER_64: a cap but youtube didn't have a cap you just keep uploading videos it was a really sort of dangerous SPEAKER_11: crazy prospect now you look at ai um you know it's like a in hollywood there's a piece of software SPEAKER_07: called final draft i don't know if you're aware of that where like people write screenplays and final draft um and uh you know had a startup um make a version of final draft it's called cyberfilm uh dot ai and uh they have this tool called saga and you can go make your own uh screenplay uh and then make SPEAKER_30: what do you call them uh storyboards and stuff like that i should call it storyboards and like somebody who SPEAKER_11: feels intimidated by writing a screenplay and be like i want to write something like natural born killers or reservoir dogs but i want it to have an indian cast and i want it to take place in india and i want it to revolve around this or that and you know kind of adapt it make it your own i want to make a sci-fi fiction version of reservoir dogs like i'm down with that yeah make me a sci-fi version of reservoir dogs let's you know start your creative juices or whatever and that'd be fun actually yeah SPEAKER_00: i mean this is what i mean you look at star wars it was a sci-fi version of you know kurosawa's work SPEAKER_04: you know in samurai films and stuff like that so you know why not let's let's go right and it's like a chance to just start again over again with this new technology you know and you start SPEAKER_114: happening i think i think hollywood is getting remade from the ground up with this with this SPEAKER_78: technology i i just uh uh just invested in this uh yc company called kino ai and what do they do SPEAKER_20: you know i i i'm going to explain in my own words because they'll probably use different words but they actually make all the video archive at all these big studios usable because they index them and they put a search engine on top of them and they index every frame and so you can go and search for uh you know every explosion and uh and whatever studio uh and look at all the footage they had yeah and SPEAKER_11: coming into this software media media asset management so like cnn has all this footage from SPEAKER_04: you know uh anderson cooper show you know and they may not have ever used they may have used 10 of the other 90 percent of the other 90 are sitting on a hard drive it's not utilized uh yeah do you know SPEAKER_95: adam curtis no adam curtis is a really awesome bbc uh documentary filmmaker oh yes century in the south uh hyper normalization hyper normalization i know yeah yeah basically this guy goes into the bbc SPEAKER_20: archives sits there for a year and looks at a bunch of footage and then cuts together a story uh with the SPEAKER_95: voiceover and creates this amazing documentaries and so imagine all this footage could be now accessed and indexed and repurposed and probably using generative ai also completed and remixed and and all SPEAKER_33: that stuff so i think it's it's really exciting what's what's going to go on if they if they will SPEAKER_38: adopt it if they won't they will get disrupted if you haven't seen hyper normalization as a trippy movie SPEAKER_72: uh all this stuff is trippy by the way what one uh about our industry that uh that really uh is is not SPEAKER_95: people have not really seen it i think is is it by him oh yeah all watched over by machines of loving grace and it talks about early optimism and in silicon valley talks about the cybernetic movements and about the ideas they had about how to structure society and some of the cults they made and and all that stuff it's a really interesting documentary and the name of that one is watched over by machines SPEAKER_00: all watch over by machines of loving grace all watched over by machines of love and grace 2011. wow i didn't know about that one i'm going to watch that that's that's a perfect one for me to watch yeah i mean are we talking about like the history of this like the technology industry these these guys were all on acid and mushrooms and coming out of the the hippie zippy movement and they really were opening the doors of perception and then they were with computers at the same time yeah and you know imagine you're tripping on acid and you know you're also like using new technology for the first time SPEAKER_04: you're like hey i have some interesting ideas here we should make a mouse it's like a mouse what yeah it's like a little thing you move it around it moves the pointer like literally a lot of these SPEAKER_00: innovations happen from 60s radicals you know um you know coming up with really interesting ideas of SPEAKER_07: what could happen i mean steve job said that was major part of his journey was you know opening up the doors of perception i don't know the full extent of his drug use or tripping but it was not SPEAKER_114: insignificant from what i understand it was not uh there's a guy called bill atkinson who was part of SPEAKER_20: the original mac team and he built uh the system called hypercard which is a lot of ways is it is early replet um and we actually talked to him at replet we uh and he he lives uh he lives here and um yeah he just talked about how it all started with a trip yeah i'm reading his bedroom he said he had SPEAKER_204: an acid trip and he built hypercard that is hilarious i actually didn't know that you should have him SPEAKER_04: on i think he would come yeah that would be dope um uh i remember hypercard it was like here's how to org it's like kind of like a database and here's how to organize information it kind of had the concept of hyperlinks in it too right like you could jump from card to card and yeah this idea was in the air SPEAKER_95: there was actually like the web ended up winning but the web was actually the least sophisticated of SPEAKER_27: all the different ideas uh around hyper hypermedia at the time yeah people forget even the term hypermedia SPEAKER_00: but this idea that in a way there was a very cool piece of software called the brain um and it was mind mapping software and if you go to the brain.com it still exists and uh i remember knowing the founders from the 90s and the product was really simple um here i'll show you uh this was like a really trippy piece of software and i used it for years i wish i had mine because you would basically SPEAKER_04: yeah it would make a mental map you see it there on the screen yeah and you know ai would do a really wonderful job of this of just taking our conversation here and then any other conversation happening on podcasts and if we hit on hypercard or hypermedia making jumps between all the pockets it'd be a great startup by the way you just take all the podcasts in the world and make a brain map of them and the idea here was people with quick keys and shenny jardin and i used to play with the software and we would sit and work and put it up on the screen when we had ideas for conferences and stuff like that and we'd make these maps where you would jump from like product design and then you click on something over here and click on something over here and it would just load web pages associated with SPEAKER_11: each of the neurons if you think about this like a neural net or your brain and it's kind of forgotten mind mapping but jury that's jerry colonna jerry mcowski from release 1.0 which was esther dyson's newsletter jerry mcowski had kept creating jerry mcowski's brain um and uh he would publish it SPEAKER_271: publicly of all the things that were in his brain which is just a mind map you know uh there was a recent SPEAKER_95: resurgence around uh room room research yes uh the backlinks and things like that but uh and they're great and these softwares are are continuing to develop and and get better but one thing that i found unattractive for my usage is how laborious it is like how i have to create these backlinks right like you have to do like you know double brackets to create a new topic and then you have to do all that i'm like well just do it for me like just yeah what i mean the coal pilot should be doing SPEAKER_315: this like you're going to be better at it than i am and you just look at this here it's like this SPEAKER_11: is jerry mcowski's brain i don't know if he keeps up with this but it's like news about using my brain using starting points and understanding jerry's brain uh beginners whatever here you can use jerry's SPEAKER_00: brain uh getting started points uh big questions okay i don't know what's in jerry's brain around big questions but that seems interesting challenges for kids you know and all these things would be uh i don't even know if this works anymore but he uh you can see like you could jump off on all it was almost like his bookmarks and stream of consciousness um really interesting you have SPEAKER_11: people out there founders like we'll back your startup make something interesting like this yeah i mean SPEAKER_95: uh this idea of being able to generate a map directly out of a conversation seems like a no-brainer SPEAKER_129: someone should go build that oh you know what look it just did it it must have been his brain is so big SPEAKER_309: that it wasn't working and i just assumed it was loading it was loading look i clicked on different SPEAKER_327: types of capitalism and he has like climate capitalism clean capitalism coin flip capitalism cognitive SPEAKER_329: capitalism uh democracy and let's go yeah i mean it's it's crazy um you know the cool thing about this SPEAKER_95: is like his grand grandchildren could actually like instantiate this in some kind of like ai that can talk to you and actually be able to talk as if it's jerry and in a way that creates something that could outlive you that could you know create your wisdom um encapsulate your wisdom for people to see in the SPEAKER_11: future uh it's crazy yeah i mean to be when neural link comes out and you can actually put these SPEAKER_04: categories together and it just your brain kind of maps itself automatically i mean scary but it's David Friedberg: definitely the possibilities there all right listen i can talk to you for hours and i did again uh everybody SPEAKER_04: if you're interested go to repli if you want to post some bounties and have it done quick cheap faster SPEAKER_11: better cheaper you know it's very few things that are faster better cheaper and if you're not using repli's bounty program or their ghostwriter you're a dummy this is how your startup could go at least 50 faster so instead of just like hiring a bunch of offshore developers nothing wrong with that or you know sitting there wondering when you're going to get this uh latest bit of code or feature done put it up on the bounty program see how you do i think you're gonna go learn how to code SPEAKER_204: everybody go learn how to code i mean i got three kids i got i was like literally i was like oh my god SPEAKER_00: if i go down this rabbit hole this is going to be 20 hours a week no no no i need to sleep i need to SPEAKER_337: spend more time with my kids i got the guilt trip like oh this is like some crazy video game that's SPEAKER_340: going to take over my life and you got you got three podcasts and and all that yeah i get two SPEAKER_309: podcasts and i'm trying to get the podcast to be less per week but with um even better guests like i was doing the news every day and like i was really getting into it but then i was like you know SPEAKER_11: what the news is transient and i'm not enjoying it as much and so i really got focused on oh you stopped SPEAKER_04: that news uh thing i do like news once a week on all in and then i do a little bit of new i'll do a news program on this weekend starts but instead of doing news every day i was like let's just get you know three times a week you know legendary or emerging founders and then one day a week do the news right and then yeah it's maybe a little bit of a better balance but i also have to enjoy doing the pod and like talking to you and then just jumping off points and talking about the future and then meeting new entrepreneurs that's really the heart and soul of this week in startups and i kind of reverted it back uh to also for my energy you know like i have to want to come do this and we're at 1800 episodes like i don't know if i'm going to make it to 2000 if i'm not super SPEAKER_00: compelled by the conversation i need to be compelled by the conversation so you gotta that's that's an SPEAKER_114: interesting i don't know if it's about getting older but i started reasoning a lot more from SPEAKER_20: this point of view of like do i want to do this for 10 years uh right and and a lot of decisions that SPEAKER_95: dropped become a lot easier because i'm like oh i want to build this company forever for as long as i SPEAKER_20: can do that if i want to do that i want to make decisions that optimize for the long term and SPEAKER_13: there are things that you will get pleasure from and then things that you will consider chores and then SPEAKER_04: things that you will consider painful and when it's something that delights you you run to it i couldn't wait to get on the call with you when it's things that you don't like you avoid them and then it's chores you do some combination of avoiding or doing them poorly or and that's where like being a great manager is just hiring people you know if you're a founder who look at your chores SPEAKER_01: or things you hate as the things they love and they run towards and they get joy from so like i have people who get joy from you know you know managing complex operational processes and that SPEAKER_07: gives them fulfillment god bless them not me but there are people who love ops and they just thrive in ops or people who love sales you know and i think you gotta also like optimize for you wanting to get to the office every day and you know get on slack every day and enjoy it right yeah totally yeah life SPEAKER_355: life is short yeah all right we'll talk to you all next time bye bye