SPEAKER_00: but most people don't have your skin and that's the thing that's why i'm glad you're being empathetic because we yeah the last show we were talking about how you won't close your dms and i'm like close your dams and you're like no i want to know i want to know who the anonymous accounts are who

SPEAKER_02: are saying this stuff you know i have security protocols like anybody in my profile here i'll

SPEAKER_04: just tell a little story here i had somebody docks me person is upset because of something i said on the show they decide to dox me they decide to put my primary residence is worth 10 million dollars what do i know blah blah blah you know how they got my photo they went back two years when i took a picture of the tree line in my backyard they've reversed image searched it and they tweeted it

SPEAKER_02: this is on july 4th weekend i looked the guy up i google search him because i have security protocols

SPEAKER_06: so now i got to get the security company involved to find out if this person's going to jump my fence

SPEAKER_09: right right okay i uh finally on linkedin i look at the company hey that company looks very familiar to me i click the company i know the ceo who we work for this week in startups is brought to you by

SPEAKER_16: prize picks run your game the best place to get real money action while watching your favorite sports download the app today and use code twist to get 50 instantly after you play your first five dollar lineup lemon.io hire pre-vetted remote developers get 15 off your first four weeks of developer time at lemon.io twist and vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast twist listeners can get a thousand dollars off for a limited time at vanta.com twist hey everybody

SPEAKER_04: welcome back to this week in startups we taped on sunday because i'm going to be traveling i'm going to be in japan doing a little skiing uh last minute trip for a couple days but i will be recording the show we might have to change the times a little bit because i'm i don't know 10 12 14 hours ahead of

SPEAKER_19: when we normally do it but fear not we will keep you updated and with me again my amazing co-host

SPEAKER_20: partner in crime alex wilhelm how are you doing sir happy sunday i'm doing fantastically i love

SPEAKER_21: working on sunday because i feel ahead for the week and the good news for you and i is there's actually

SPEAKER_22: lots to talk about i was a little worried start of the year sunday show is it going to be a lot of us telling jokes but no lots of news i just want to say buckle up because it's going to be nuts this year

Chamath Palihapitiya: i'm just letting everybody know right now the inside track is it's going to be chaotic in 2025 which means uh we've got a lot to talk about a lot of change is going to happen and one of the changes i i asked alex to do somewhat last minute was to start sharing our docket publicly

SPEAKER_33: with you our amazing audience and then to just really show you behind the curtains what uh we're going to talk about about six or 12 hours in front of the show which is when alex gets working on this this week in startups.com slash docket this week in startups.com slash docket will redirect you to a notion page shout out to our sponsor and partner notion which is where we keep the show notes and you'll see him building the docket in real time and what that'll do is you'll get to follow along as we talk about these topics if you're an insider you'll get smarter and what my big hope alex is is that you all will be engaged as producers we did a really interesting thing in the first couple of years of the show i was figuring out what the business model would be to pay for the team yeah and we had this concept of anybody could be a producer of this week in startups and i had cribbed that from adam curry who was doing that on his no agenda podcast at the time and uh i wound up handing that because i we had so much advertising i didn't need the money and i thought i'll just go with ads but the one thing that i think adam curry

Chamath Palihapitiya: uh and john c dvorak ah john dvorak nah what they got right was they have such an engaged audience i forgot about no agenda for a couple years and then i started listening to it again and uh it's actually quite good and what i love about what john

SPEAKER_02: dvorak who i grew up on uh he used to write for pc magazine which was a print magazine about pcs and i always idolized john dvorak jim seymour all the guys who wrote these columns because i was obsessed with pcs in the 80s and my dream was to someday be a columnist in a pc magazine and of course adam

SPEAKER_41: curry was hey it's adam curry watching the via it was vj and i was like well that's a pretty cool gig too so i love both of those guys uh you know they're like probably a decade or two ahead of me in careers and i just thought they were great broadcasters and writers putting all that aside

Chamath Palihapitiya: that's such an activated audience and they do something called value for value so you can provide

SPEAKER_33: value to them by writing show notes or suggesting stories or making album art and then or you can make a donation and then they shout you out on the air i'm not planning on doing that but what i think is really interesting is that they just take the top 100 people who love the show like the 0.01 or the 0.1 whatever it is and they've really engaged them so that's what i'm hoping to do is take the noti gang we have notifications turned on and just activate you in helping us build the docket because

SPEAKER_09: hey you might see us make a mistake or you might you know in the notes or you might have asked chat gpt

SPEAKER_33: something and have a great question for us so instead of waiting for on air to do that or your letters to the editor after the show is published well why not show you the docket ahead of time and so anyway that's the goal and uh we'll see how this experiment goes i think it's really fun

SPEAKER_00: and what it's going to make me do jason is use less shorthand because sometimes i might write something in an abbreviated form for you and i like i might say trad infra and mean server tech from the 90s in context but i'm going to have to be a little bit more explicit and i just want to share with everybody we went through the permissions that are available for uh non-staff members on the page and we're currently set to comments so you should be able to drop a comment if you're listening holy cow please send me an email alexwlaunch.co if you can or can't leave a comment i want to see how it's testing it's a little hard for me to test with my own account um but would love your feedback there and i will see those live as we're going through work but jason there is a story that is bubbling up on rich person twitter and i need you to explain to me what's going on with veil and why does everyone hate the cmo i've pulled their earnings i have looked into this but it seems very strange so give people a taste of ski twitter sure there was this very innovative thing that

Chamath Palihapitiya: happened a couple decades ago which was the season pass for skiing now if you were skiing in windham like scott adams he lived in windham new york and i used to ski there you could get a season pass but then epic and veil resorts put together a consortium of mountains and they bought a bunch of mountains and you could buy the epic pass and there's a competing one the icon pass and then there's another one called like the indie pass i think these all cost 300 to a thousand dollars and it means unlimited skiing okay but what it meant for the mountains were they got to take the money in advance this is a very important note that anybody who's an entrepreneur understands why this is important cash flow and secondly subscriptions so at the beginning of the season now vale resorts or any of these ski seasons uh ski companies get all the money in advance i have to buy my ticket uh my season pass i think by november or else they stop selling them so you can't go skiing in january it's not going to go for a week i'll buy the 600 pass no if you snooze you lose if you wait

SPEAKER_54: till the mountains open you then have to pay per day lift tickets today in america are 150 to 300

Chamath Palihapitiya: per day you're only on the mountain from nine to four you might get like four hours of skiing in you know based on parking and everything so you're talking about it's costing 50 to 100 an hour you have a family go out it's a hundred dollars a day to rent skis it's absurdly expensive this is a elite

SPEAKER_57: rich person sport but you buy the season pass a local one for three or four hundred dollars and you

SPEAKER_33: own your skis you buy a season rental season rental for my kids 150 bucks there's lift tickets 300 so

SPEAKER_41: i'm in for 450 yeah yeah they've skied i don't know eight days so far and we'll do a spring season

SPEAKER_09: for another five days they do 12 let's say they do 15 days hey for 500 bucks pretty good deal right such a good deal that now too many people buy these passes and there's no incentive for vale

SPEAKER_57: resorts which owns the epic pass to sell less of them because they get all this money in advance it's

SPEAKER_33: all guaranteed so if it's a bad season let's say it's warm and they don't get as many ski dates it doesn't matter all the money comes in advance they get to sit on your money make interest on it and they don't have to take loans out to run it anyway cash flows the business brilliantly but there's two problems number one veil is a cheap ass organization in my estimation they made a couple hundred million dollars and they're fighting in park city which is their premier location really or one of their premier locations with the um ski uh patrol when i found out what ski patrol gets paid it's less than a nanny gets paid it's less than a housekeeper gets paid it's not that there's any i'm not saying anything derogatory about that but these are you know serious professionals who go ski and rescue you if you get hurt 23 bucks an hour they get paid they're asking for 25. this cheap vale resort which has hired according to what i've read online the chief marketing officers from comcast which is one of the most hated organizations for trying to unsubscribe you know and just known for terrible customer support so vale has the worst vale resorts which run epic pass has the worst customer support and then they're at war with the people who run the mountain the lines were extremely long to get up the lift the line should move brisson

SPEAKER_02: and why were the lines long they oversold epic passes like they always do it's a holiday

Chamath Palihapitiya: and they had to shut down multiple lifts because they didn't have their ski patrol not having ski patrols like i don't know like not having your ambulance corp so look at this chaos people are

SPEAKER_02: furious i think there's going to be many lawsuits anyway none of this matters well it's only one percenter

Chamath Palihapitiya: problem but there's a lot of startup lessons in this insanity good ones and bad the epic pass was like unlimited skiing so i've skied 17 days now i go out for an hour and a half but i couldn't do what i do which is skiing for an hour and a half a day if i had to pay two or three hundred dollars a day because it just wouldn't make economic sense to do six runs for 300 but if i can buy a pass and

SPEAKER_33: if i go out for an hour or two and it starts raining or it's too windy i can just come home yeah

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SPEAKER_53: don't even have to win price picks run your game anyway long story short incredibly innovative to do

SPEAKER_57: the epic pass incredibly cheap this is a terrible organization that has run horribly yeah uh they

SPEAKER_33: are cheap skates they have horrible food on the mountains horrible parking they treat their staff terrible and it's kind of like comcast was for cable modems for some period of time where everybody hated them yes or verizon or the wall street journal trying to cancel your subscription just a very non-customer-centric organization but that has an incredible value prop so i'll leave it at that

SPEAKER_00: i'll throw this thing because i saw this before i saw your tweet about it and i was like okay this is this is this is funny to me i grew up snowboarding i grew up in oregon but uh near my bachelor i've been to beaver creek i love the mountains hell yeah and then i looked at their earnings and i was kind of curious i'm like are these companies struggling financially is this actually a burden on them and the answer was no they paid a two dollar 22 per share cash dividend bought 20 million of their shares back last quarter and they're expecting to have total reported ebitda in the current fiscal year jason of about 900 million dollars so i think they can afford two dollars per hour to their ski staff

SPEAKER_80: to avoid a pr catastrophe that's the thing they didn't just shoot themselves in the foot they shot

SPEAKER_27: their brand in the foot oh what a mess well now people are saying we should boycott epic next year and go icon and use the icon mountains and teach fellow lesson i don't think that'll work because

David Friedberg: they made these passes so cheap and then people might live near you know one of the other mountains so they kind of have in some ways a lock on these things but i do think if there are ambulance chasing

Chamath Palihapitiya: in class action lawyers out there may i point you to an incredibly juicy target um which is vale

SPEAKER_82: resorts the company the stock ticker uh is mt oh mt i looked it up before mt n and uh let's see five years i'm looking at the five-year stock it's down you bought the stock in 2021 for 272 dollars you've lost half your money you've lost half your money so this organization their stock price tells you that they're mismanaged and not run well i think yes um and uh they probably should there should be some stock shareholder lawsuits here just based on the just utter incompetence of this there should be

SPEAKER_02: a no vote and uh listen i i have an epic pass for i don't know six seven years and i love it but this is a terrible organization it's a disgrace disgraziad as we say in brooklyn disgraziad.com

SPEAKER_57: i own the domain disgraziad and i am going to redirect it i don't even know how to spell that word but

SPEAKER_26: you should redirect it to veil's ir page well it used to be that disgraziad d-i-s-g-r-a-z-i-a-d.com

SPEAKER_57: i redirected it to jake paul after the jake paul tyson match which i thought was a fraud a literal fraud i i don't know if i'm correct or not but i'm gonna take disgrazia.com disgrace and i am jake paul you're off the hook they all resorts you're on the clock all right so i want to start

SPEAKER_22: with something very optimistic we have a lot of actual hard news to get to but just before

SPEAKER_00: we jumped on air today a really interesting interview with sam altman dropped business week jason got him for a very deep on the record interview uh we're going to talk more about it later on in the week couple things about ai but i want to drop some sunshine in your lap by pulling out this quote about fusion so bloomberg is talking to to sam malman hey you know what are we going to do about chips what are we going to do about energy and sam just shoots back and uh if you're watching the video there's the text but i'm going to read it for everybody uh so energy sam says fusion's gonna work and then business week says on what time frame and here's sam altman soon well soon there will be a demonstration of net gain fusion you then have to build a system that doesn't break you have to scale it up you have to figure out how to build a factory build a lot of them you know regulatory approval and that will take you know years altogether but i expect killian and other companies will show you that fusion works soon that jason would change the world as much

SPEAKER_19: as chad gpt if not more yeah and sam altman made a bet on a fusion company a very large one helion energy uh yeah and it was disclosed it was a personal one so i i don't know but my understanding is he went all in on this he might have made like a nine figure bet like a hundred million dollar bet

SPEAKER_82: yeah so and you know you can talk to a bunch of folks some people think the fusion timeline is a decade

SPEAKER_02: some people think it's five decades the truth is china is approving a massive number of not only nuclear power plants but coal power plants and solar and they're forcing evs so you got to go after

Chamath Palihapitiya: everything yeah hopefully the united states can get past the grifting the virtue signaling and just all energy matters all energy sources matter just go after everything because what's happening is even if you don't like fossil fuels the united states is leading along with some european countries in terms of the reduction of them clean air etc we're going to solve all these problems so a little bit

SPEAKER_04: of fracking a little bit of oil offshore drilling i'm not worried about because you have the natural counterbalance of technological innovation so i do think we want clean air and clean water and we don't want to pollute but you don't have to sweat some amount of fossil fuels because solar is so cheap yeah and nuclear is getting approved maybe not by our country as fast as we like it by emerging markets

Chamath Palihapitiya: and there's a belt and road concept that china is doing and what it basically means is spreading influence by giving people resources and that belt and road goes through asia to africa and back yep and i think they have 150 nuclear power plants outside of china they're building oh wow so that's a lot this is where you could really spread influence if you want to spread influence the united states should be the leader in nuclear and then obviously fusion like we are for evs and batteries along

SPEAKER_57: with china and we should be trying to sell these things and get unlimited energy for everybody i'll

SPEAKER_118: get off oh yeah of my speech here and thank you for coming to my tent i just want to throw in that

SPEAKER_00: people often underestimate how much oil the u.s produces when we discuss this this topic so i just pulled some data from the government in 2023 so this is about a year old uh we produced 22 of the world's

SPEAKER_120: oil which is double the number two country which was saudi arabia and then russia's number three

Chamath Palihapitiya: also time i mean how is that possible because we were sitting here 20 years ago in the early 2000s

SPEAKER_04: everybody's talking about peak oil we're gonna run out of oil and there is gonna remember the peak oil discussions or those documentaries it's gonna throw society into this cataclysmic thing

Chamath Palihapitiya: then what happens you find more oil you figure out ways to clean oil you get solar going you get batteries going and everything works out eventually so here's the chart look at that so this is a chart

SPEAKER_00: showing us oil production from 2011 uh through 2022 when it doubled uh going back to the 1900s we produced very little oil it peaked originally in the early 70s and then declined through 2010 roughly and then shot up to all-time record highs in the last couple years shale oil fracking offshore drilling better technologies deeper wells uh pick your poison but the point is the us is on top of a thing that

SPEAKER_80: we didn't really want to be on top of but lights need to turn on as jason's christmas tree once again

Chamath Palihapitiya: points out to us today uh we are going to move into a golden era of abundance we're kind of soaking

SPEAKER_53: in it right now it's just very hard to appreciate the human mind is designed to look for bad news we have

SPEAKER_33: a yes a bias towards negativity why do we have that i've said it a million times on this program the people who are conservative and scared and anxious didn't cross the river and get eaten by the crocodile so in our dna is to be conservative to be scared but you know one of the things that elon said to me 20 years ago we were on a flight together we were going to do something and he said you know

SPEAKER_57: it's really interesting to me how much people overestimate the downside risk and he was about to go bankrupt with tesla and he said you know what the downside is i go bankrupt but i can always start

SPEAKER_33: another company and so it's not life or death i mean he was worth a couple hundred million maybe 100 200 million at that time you know from paypal and whatever but he had poured it all into these companies and that always stuck with me take more risk take more risk now you look at his personality

Chamath Palihapitiya: he takes out a lot of risk right yeah as a society we are programmed in our dna to not take risk

SPEAKER_02: we should be taking more risk so to sam altman's credit putting 100 million of his own money if he's worth a couple of billion and now he's worth maybe 10 20 billion with uh you know depending on what you think chad chapiti goes i mean it's so it's a worthy bet if it's a one percent chance it

Chamath Palihapitiya: works out and we have unlimited power well that was like that's a one in a thousand chance you make

SPEAKER_04: that bet yes so people's minds are not designed to do this we are in the age of abundance right now as we speak the fact that we as a society can complain and handling uh about the topics that we are

Chamath Palihapitiya: obsessed about in this country is part of our privilege and the abundance we are living in that doesn't mean they're not real problems that doesn't mean people aren't suffering it doesn't mean horrible things don't happen in the world but let me tell you there's a reason why everybody in the world wants

SPEAKER_137: to come here yeah still to this day with as problematic as things can be all right founders

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SPEAKER_00: lemon.io twist the abundance mindset thing has become actually an oddly recurring meme in my mind because i'm playing factorio at night after i get the kids in bed i love it what's factory explain what factorio is factorio is a factory building game it is essentially the og factory building game yeah i'm still obsessed i'm playing a 25x science game if you know what i'm talking about but the thing is whenever i run into a problem i try to finagle with what i've built and every time i do that it's wrong no abundance mindset if you're short on something go build 10 times as much as you need and i keep having to teach myself this lesson and in fact it was oddly abundance pilling me so shout out to the team over at wubay all right uh jason so lots to talk about today we have ai taking on the health care task world we have startup shutdowns ups and how to handle rural deliveries the ups and downs of online engagement via a chef in san francisco where do you want to start see you know what i

SPEAKER_93: think the royal connor one okay dovetails with what we were just talking about so maybe this lady will

SPEAKER_00: make you picnic all right so jason got into a conversation with one of california's congressional group uh the well-known ro connor he is the representative of california's 17th district sunnyvale cupertino santa clara parts of san jose if you don't know why that matters well sunnyvale is where yahoo was based cupertino of course is where apple is santa clara is another big tech city so row jason is probably the most visible congressperson from silicon valley is that fair i would say so

SPEAKER_33: and he um is a friend of the all-in pod where we talk about politics a whole a whole lot and he spoke at one of our events i think it was two years ago he did the all-in summit and i think incredibly highly of him he's on the left but he's kind of a centrist and he's very common sense and he's focused on what matters and so he started talking about ups closing facilities and this caught my attention because we're 36 trillion dollars in debt as a country and he says in this tweet ups plans to close around 200 us facilities including in places like somewhere in ohio iowa uh this will hurt rural

SPEAKER_57: businesses we need federal incentives and regulations to keep shipping centers open in rural america we

SPEAKER_33: need a rural new deal and i just thought to myself do we and i wrote a a little bit of a response to it which is you know i'll just summarize it in my own words yeah please i chose to live in a rural area for the first time in my life i've always been a city dweller or you know infill areas you know san mateo outside of san francisco which is still a city really but it's kind of like a bucala kind of city brooklyn new york city manhattan etc los angeles brentwood but now i live on a ranch in austin which is

SPEAKER_27: about 30 minutes outside of the city center and the trade-off you make when you move outside the city center is you get less services but you get more land you lower your course of cost of living

SPEAKER_04: massively but you give up the fact and the thing i miss most is san mateo has 200 asian food restaurants

SPEAKER_53: my favorite cuisine and i can't order ramen korean sushi rolls sushi you know korean barbecue uh soba from restaurants that are dedicated to those specific dishes yes and i can't get them to my

SPEAKER_04: house in 20 to 40 minutes in fact all i can get on uber eats to my house right now is i kid you not carl's jr mcdonald's and starbucks all right that's the american trifecta right there you can clog your

SPEAKER_06: arteries and get the jitters at the same time so you know i i have to come up with a solution for this

SPEAKER_41: i might get like a chef to come twice a week and prepare some meals i don't know what i'm gonna do

SPEAKER_06: uh it's a little bit of it's the only downside but i have a couple dozen acres all to myself that i

SPEAKER_57: can hike on right and so i think this idea that all taxpayers should subsidize me out in the hill

SPEAKER_33: country uh you know in the in the in the ranch land of texas by putting up a couple of ramen and sushi places that i love would be ridiculous and so he sent me to a sub stack i looked at it i was like you know what honestly this poor you know entrepreneur living on the sticks who has to pay very little money to live out there cost of living is dirt cheap land etc i feel bad for her that she's got to ship her items and she's got to drive one hour to go to a depot center that doesn't take the exact size box that she wants and doesn't have the it's an inconvenience for her and i just thought to myself you know what raise your prices if your product's good enough it takes an extra day to get there but we can't have every person whose business takes a hit or has to drive an hour we i'm sorry we don't have the ability as a country anymore to subsidize everybody the federal government should not be solving these kind of problems so i just respectfully and i used the word

SPEAKER_78: respectfully i was disagreeing with bro yeah what are your thoughts on all this all right so i did i

SPEAKER_00: i had to do some research because i had not looked into ups's business in a long time it turns out and this was to my surprise rose actual post was about an article from march of last year so first of all we're going back in time nine months to when um ups announced this ups as a company is doing quite well it is changing up its business jason it's selling off parts of itself it sold off coyote logistics to a company called rxo so it's currently in a mode of curtailing unnecessary activities working on profitability and trying to invest in automation we've talked about this on the show before back when there was the port strike or the threatened port strike so this is something that we are familiar with now when it comes to subsidizing companies so they keep open facilities in rural areas i think we can't afford so i i tried to figure out where rural money comes from in the us and it turns out that the usda uh department of agriculture has a rural development group that does a whole bunch of different things and the usda the last time i checked the federal spending data spend about four percent of our money so it's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction so i would say directionally i agree we spend too much money we need to spend less but i think that when it comes to rail and and delivery infra we probably unlock more inside of the heartland than we lose by subsidizing them now of course it could be a boondoggle ups is a private company i don't want to just give them tons of money for no reason jason and i are both capitalists uh but in this case i was sympathetic the problem is and i know this is the flaw my argument everything probably has a

SPEAKER_26: reasonable argument for it and so it's hard to cut money without stubbing some toes if this was a

SPEAKER_57: profitable endeavor for ups they would not be retreating to a smaller number of centers so if they thought there was a business opportunity they would do that and this area is serviced by usps

Chamath Palihapitiya: the united states postal service which is already subsidized i mean think we lose a lot of money on that already but that's not as good for you know maybe uh they don't they don't do a fast enough shipping the free market will sort all this out it is not the government's role to be in there picking winners and losers and subsidizing it's the free markets and amazon is doing drone delivery which means they can eventually do drone pickup true there are self-driving cars coming and there are self-driving trucks coming so amazon and zooks will be picking up all this rural stuff in a truck okay that has no humans in it and they'll be doing it for half the cost that ups is right now and ups is not the leading shipping company is it uh i think fedex is larger yeah and then i think amazon has their own delivery now they don't just rely on ups they have their own drivers so we have the most amazing vibrant

SPEAKER_184: competitive logistics industry i think in the world in the united states nailing product market fit is

SPEAKER_185: every founder stack priority but once you've got your product dialed in you need to focus on selling

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SPEAKER_33: choose to live rurally that is a choice you're making you will get slower service but you will have acreage that costs i don't know a thousand to fifty thousand dollars an acre yeah and you get to live in the most

SPEAKER_09: beautiful unbelievably vast landscapes of america you make that choice you have to give up something and

SPEAKER_33: what you're giving up is convenience and speed but fear not technology is going to save the day eventually for this i just think we got to make hard choices in this country stop trying to subsidize it i say cancel the entire broadband subsidy thing and let people buy starlink or the other five

SPEAKER_167: competitors to starlink if they want broadband enough of this okay and i don't think we should be

SPEAKER_26: subsidizing people in the cities either okay no subsidies let's let's slow down on the subsidy

SPEAKER_22: everybody's got to tighten the belt all right so i will i will trade you uh what's this woman's name uh meredith nunakhoven's uh barn swallow flowers if you want to look it up and oh in oscaloosa that's a town i've never been to i'll trade you or her business and let it die off by not subsidizing

SPEAKER_194: ups and it's not going to die off by the way she just said it would be one day extra but okay go ahead

SPEAKER_00: let's just take the worst case scenario okay i'll trade you her i will sacrifice her upon the altar of my love for capitalism but if we're going to stop subsidizing her or not subsidize her then we need

SPEAKER_22: to not subsidize you and your friends via the carried interest tax loophole okay i'm fine with

SPEAKER_197: it done because then yeah i mean honestly i think we should go to a flat tax i think capital gains income should just become one tax now i know that's controversial for a lot of people carried interest

SPEAKER_200: controversial it just i think simplifying it we get so many gains that it would be worth it

Chamath Palihapitiya: yeah all that being said you know i do think capital gains and investing in companies is why we have the most vibrant and the most unicorns and the mag-7 are here but i don't think it would be existential if we change those so i'm fine with it right yeah everybody's got a belt titan if we want

SPEAKER_201: to get 36 trillion in debt down to 25 can i can i gently push you on this i have a question for you

SPEAKER_00: okay please so going through this story just prepping for our show today one of the parts i one of the reasons why i love this job jason is whenever we approach a new topic i have to go out and learn things so i get to kind of go out and just poke around so i found a cato institute website all about cutting government spending and this is actually data from 2016 but they were in favor of cutting rural subsidies which would be encompassed things like this and they said that that was worth about six and a half billion back in 2016 but the same cato institute page said that they want to cut uh agricultural subsidies as well which are about 30 billion dollars a year that's now cutting agricultural

SPEAKER_80: oh okay that's political suicide because of the way we handle primaries in this country it's all

SPEAKER_02: political um suicide to talk about any austerity measures that's true if you notice this whole discussion

Chamath Palihapitiya: of doge i think traces back to maybe three years ago we were doing our like concerns or whatever on

SPEAKER_57: all in and freeberg started talking about the debt a whole bunch and i was like chirping on about it

SPEAKER_33: as well i think chamath took the other side of it a little bit like hey we can have a little more debt but then we all realized hey wait a sec with covet and like adding eight trillion per administration and there's no slowdown like so we thought oh you know there'll be a little extra covet spending makes sense we'll pay it down because we're america we kick ass and people are just like you know what yolo let's keep spending i think what you have to do is get in office and then

SPEAKER_57: interrupt and then engage it and if you notice who's leading the charge on this elon vivek and a lot of people in my you know extended circle and a lot of people who are capitalists and so i think

SPEAKER_33: it's going to take business people who realize the danger of this debt and then people who are in office who are lame duck trump is in his second term he doesn't have to run a third time yes so he can actually take this on i don't think in his first term you can take this on if you want to win a second one if you want to win a second yeah if you want to win a second one and you know what i heard from an insider that uh cannabis legalization was something that obama wanted to do

SPEAKER_57: from somebody who was one of his mega donors like one of his whatever they call those super pack donors whatever the people who are the super syndicates you know who get all these 250k checks

SPEAKER_06: together the bundlers the bundlers i heard from a you know a very high profile bundler who was trying to bundle me i don't like to do that i really just sorry i don't want to be bundled anyway the bundler

SPEAKER_02: said it was one of my issues i said you know i kind of feel bad like i think all these kids who are in jail and it happens to be black kids and brown kids more than white kids who are selling dime bags on the corner and then i see all these white entrepreneurs i don't mean to make it a race issue but it is we're getting funded at that time to do cannabis companies and i'm like wait this seems profoundly unfair just anybody who's in a non-violent cannabis thing should be released from jail obviously and that's what happened but they said to me obama can't do it in the first time he's definitely going to do in the second he didn't wind up doing it i don't think no federal cannabis legislation but now all these republicans are smoking weed and taking gummies and tinctures and everything they realize it's not you know as harmful as alcohol and all studies basically you know listen all things have downsides but it's it's i would say it's probably well agreed no worse or better than say alcohol most people would say alcohol is worse i think if anyone thinks that

SPEAKER_00: cannabis is worse than alcohol come talk to me i'll i'll give you a lot about this actually the doge point is very interesting um the founder of uh i think it was loom had a viral blog post the other day about how he's trying to sort out his life post acquisition because he suddenly had all this money and i just pulled it up jason because he has this great quote about uh working with doge and he was just trying to find himself after the acquisition and he went to go work for doge for a couple of weeks and after he gets associated with doge for a minute the next four weeks of my life consisted of hundreds of calls recruiting the smartest people i've ever talked to working on various projects i'm definitely not able to talk about and learning how completely dysfunctional the government was it was a blast now whatever you think about the federal government its current efficiency whatever it's very interesting to get that glimmer of information from doge because i don't think we know much about it it's been kind of under wraps for a little bit i'm very curious but that gave me a lot of hope that there's a good level of recruitment going on um jason you might have more visibility into the back channels uh in your group text than i do but it did feel

SPEAKER_223: like doge book went a little quiet for a bit and so i'm glad that that tells me there's still a lot

SPEAKER_224: going on i think everything's gone quiet because they have to get these nominations done and there

SPEAKER_02: was a public yeah um i guess they called her the ice queen or something the woman yeah she was like

SPEAKER_224: no more tweeting because we gotta get these nominees through just everybody pause on the tweeting

David Friedberg: it was the public statement i saw there was a memo or something yeah and so i think everybody's kind of like well we're not even in office yet we can wait the five six weeks and then we'll start putting

SPEAKER_02: our stamp on things so we don't just have non-stop chaos on the interweb so i think that's what's

SPEAKER_200: happening but i got a lot of people asking me hey i want to do this i want to sell my software

Chamath Palihapitiya: into it i have two software i have two portfolio companies that want to help or that i assume want to help yeah one of them has been public about it uh density.io which says yes you know people counting in spaces and i'm like wow this could be incredible like let's donate or at cost whatever or or on the come you know we could do it on you know like on contingency measure all the usage of all this office space and then start getting rid of the unused office space which is billions and billions of dollars i believe right and then deep sentinel you know you got all these

SPEAKER_200: crazy uh security needs at these buildings that nobody's going to but they need to have security well you know what you don't need to have dozens of security guards you could have one and then you

SPEAKER_02: could have monitored ai based camera systems where you make those security guards super efficient and we could start lowering costs there now i know that means some people might lose their jobs or like you

Chamath Palihapitiya: know facilities might become available but then they could be available to do other more important work than playing candy crush at three in the morning watching a bunch of cameras that don't change that ai can watch for the changes and surface those so that's deep sentinels the other company that

SPEAKER_231: we're investing every time i've watched a spy heist movie the candy crush playing security guard misses the critical moment of theft when the mona lisa makes it out the back door so not a big fan

SPEAKER_00: of that as a general point i want to actually grab the conversation by the by the head here and pull it in a different direction jason uh did you see the recent reporting from the wall street journal about the depth and scale of chinese hacking into american infrastructure i did not i mean i saw it going by

SPEAKER_57: on my feed but i didn't read any stories on it so educate the audience here what's going on so we've

SPEAKER_80: all heard about salt typhoon which was the recent chinese incursion into american telecom networks that went very very deep and that led to the government saying hey everybody make sure you're using encrypted chat which people found ironic because the government has often been opposed to

SPEAKER_00: encrypted chat that they can't crack but hey you know potato potato what's interesting is it seems that there is a consensus rising that chinese penetration and i would say meddling in u.s infrastructure has reached a new cadence a much faster pace and it's very very dangerous and jason to put this into geopolitical context the expectation is that if china was to invade taiwan to try to take it over they not only want to block u.s communications and activity but also cause mayhem domestically to throw the u.s people off off their game so disrupting cell phone networks water that sort of thing it's all actually incredibly scary and reading through this piece i was just kind of angry because it seems that given u.s technology primacy in the world that we should be better off and so i just was kind of sitting here going what can we do and then i remembered ironically the launch of healthcare.gov which was a flop so when obamacare came out they had a website where you could go on and get a plan and they launched it and uh it didn't it failed and then they did bring in a bunch of nerds our friends to fix it i think we need something akin to a cyber security doge project like what if we got all of the smart cyber kids six months pay them nothing give them a gold star because i think doge

SPEAKER_22: has made going to the government if you're a technology person politically okay or like socially acceptable and maybe even encouraged i think we need a cyber security doge movement because we are not

SPEAKER_237: ready for jack right now seems like a great idea to me it seems like something we need to focus on

SPEAKER_02: i mean it's pretty obvious that we're getting hacked pretty heavily and uh yeah we should totally do a manhattan project on that and you got to make systems that are redundant i think one of the

SPEAKER_82: great things about the united states is when you have 50 different states we talked about this over

David Friedberg: and over again yeah yeah you know we're kind of like south america or the eu in some ways the united states more than we are you know friends or or germany or canada where we do have like a pretty uh disparate

SPEAKER_02: operating system going on here in experiment we really you know if you want to take down the entire

Chamath Palihapitiya: grid in america you're going to need to attack a lot of different pieces of it true so in some ways

SPEAKER_57: that's a feature right it's it's just there's not a lot of surface area to take down the entire grid so single points of failure there aren't many but where they are we should be more and more

Chamath Palihapitiya: vigilant and this is where technology comes in i was mentioning deep sentinel and density.io both of

SPEAKER_02: these rely on ai and sensors yeah cameras you know more advanced types of sensors plus we have drones

Chamath Palihapitiya: and all kinds of other things this is going to be unbelievably effective to put sensors around

SPEAKER_57: reservoirs and fly drones automatically 24 hours a day or those you know uh robots remember we had the uh dog-like robot that i was sixteen hundred dollars we take that that dog company which i want to have them on the pod you know and you release 10 of those dogs into the robotics you know you release 10 of

SPEAKER_33: those around you know some water basin or reservoir to just run around and then you fly a drone every hour and you put up some sensors somebody hops the fence with some terrible chemical to pour into our

SPEAKER_53: water stream the dogs are gonna catch him i hadn't even thought of that yeah i mean that was always the

SPEAKER_200: quintessential thriller like there's a great thriller black sunday by frankenheimer and the

SPEAKER_02: idea is like a blimp goes over uh i'll leave it at that like the super bowl yeah to do a terrorist attack you know it's just we have these terror attacks going the large body of water critical infrastructure electricity bridges etc skyscrapers football stadiums yeah water these things could affect a lot of people as opposed to as terrible as it is driving into a christmas fair you know or down a busy street you can kill dozens but not thousands right thank god um and so yeah we could use technology i mean those dogs cost sixteen hundred dollars you know if you if you put 10 of them

SPEAKER_54: around a reservoir i think it's enough and you know five of them are out five of them are charged a man

SPEAKER_00: it'd be just beautiful beautiful ways the thing i want to say here is that's not just a a a non-human solution it's a better solution and the dogs don't get tired uh but i'll just read the the paragraph that made me just kind of get chills so this is from the journal chinese hackers had gained the ability to shut down dozens of u.s ports power grids and other infra targets at will and that was according to jake sullivan joe biden's national security advisor and then then salt typhoon happened which the was the telecommunications hack we are getting creamed here and honestly i love our federated systems jason i love that we're 50 states i love that different states have their own policies and so forth but we're going to have to have unified action i think to build up a a a digital wall of sufficient strength that we are safe and and don't forget soft power china's in

SPEAKER_33: decline right now why are they in decline nobody's investing in that country nobody wants to be an entrepreneur i heard somebody talking some nonsense like oh they're going to just fire up entrepreneurship again and i'm like really if you're an entrepreneur in china and you had your company taken away you work for a company and you're part of the diaspora of alibaba or and pay you saw jack ma get whack essentially just disappear for a couple of years and he goes to do philosophy and paint oil paintings

SPEAKER_85: like you know what's up you know he could have been tortured he could have had all kinds of threats

SPEAKER_269: i don't mean to laugh about that i know i said it after you were laughing but yeah you were not laughing at what i was saying but in real time like oh there and there's that dog i mean jesus christ this thing

SPEAKER_274: is so cool every time i see that i think every time i see that goddamn thing i think it's cgi that looks like the black mirror episode i i just actually black mirror dude it looks like it looks like a chicken

SPEAKER_00: that has no head and has been de-feathered in a way i love it and it's it's it's incredible i'm i'm obsessed with this but that to me is like the promise of what where this technology we've been talking about robotics ai and connectivity all come together it isn't just to take away jobs it takes

SPEAKER_282: away the worst stupid jobs that we have that we don't need people to do it's going to emancipate

SPEAKER_26: us yes i'm on my technology soapbox today apparently but here's the thing soft power would really help

SPEAKER_02: here if china's got problems with you know potentially a civil war happening because people don't have jobs if manufacturing is moving to other locations because people don't want to have a single point of

SPEAKER_04: failure which is their right as a country you know uh and uh they're becoming isolationist well if we come in and say you know what listen trump's a pretty you know you don't have to like trump but he's pretty good at negotiating i've come to the conclusion he goes in there he says hey listen you know maybe you want a little more investment remember china came to san francisco and they were like that zero percent investment or negative negative investment in fact because people were pulling

Chamath Palihapitiya: stuff out of the country like russia has experienced you know what kind of sucks to be russia and china and have people pulling their investment from your country and then less jobs right so yes we you know a little bit of soft power here hey trump invited xi jinping to the inauguration a little bit

SPEAKER_06: weird but okay you know i don't think our president's going to his you know coronation but

SPEAKER_198: i don't think he's invited an invite's an invite whatever you know if i don't go it's nice to be invited

SPEAKER_291: look you know it was pete trump it was pete trump i'm not i am not a trump fan but that that's hilarious 60 seconds moments when he chose to close this we're going to shut you down by the

SPEAKER_294: way do you want to come over for lunch too like hey come on over yeah 51st state uh trudeau it's

SPEAKER_296: the 51st state come genuflect in mor-a-lago uh buy a membership half a million dollars did you know

SPEAKER_275: that bar a log on trips are a half million dollars that's what i heard look do you know do you know who always gets paid donald the don gets paid yeah so anyway it would be kind of great to go do that

SPEAKER_57: soft power thing again with china and then you could say hey listen we're going to get investment going here a little private equity a little bit of ipos hey we'll work with you on the tick tock

SPEAKER_33: divestiture whatever it is yeah how about um you stop sending the federal precursors they're in wuhan can you just whack those that syndicate which by the way if they can whack people for practicing a religion yeah oh they know they know where they are yes they know what they're doing hey so let's horse trade no more fentanyl to mexico coming to the border and we want you to stop with the shenanigans uh in the hacking and here's what we'll give you you know can i can i tell you though

SPEAKER_00: because you brought up the thing i wasn't going to bring up by uh implicitly so the idea of the dialogue back and forth offering something demanding something standard give and take between nations uh here's a quote from lu pengu a spokesperson uh for china quote some in the u.s seem to be enthusiastic about creating various types of typhoons the spokesman said referring to the names assigned to the hacking groups quote the u.s needs to stop its own cyber attacks against other countries and

SPEAKER_22: refrain from using cyber security to smear and slander china i just can you imagine what it takes to

SPEAKER_277: to lie like that like just so so clearly just lie i mean we have to uh you know we do our own

SPEAKER_200: escapades around the world i mean we were tracking i think there was a little tension when it came out that angela merkel's phone was being tab we had to do some oopsies yes there there was a little bit of

SPEAKER_41: like hey sorry we looked at your uh we looked at your text sorry i mean she knows we're looking come on she's looking at i mean if she has access to trump she's looking so anyway uh it is an issue i think

SPEAKER_200: soft power wins the day uh in a lot of this and the great lesson of globalization is you can take it too far and you cannot take it far enough there is a very fine balance here where you you know you send too many jobs over you get rid of too many factories you build a dependency and then it gets out of whack

Chamath Palihapitiya: so we still want to make cars in our country we still need to make medicine here but we still want to import some cars and we still want to be able to import some medicine we want to have some jobs done in india china you know portugal canada and we want some in the united states so it's a balance and these geopolitical issues whether you know it's russia ukraine yeah if you

SPEAKER_33: are having some business relationships the upside of capitalism is the entanglements no conflict no

SPEAKER_09: interest if there's conflicts then there's interest if we get rid of all the the conflicts with china

SPEAKER_33: well then yeah they can roll into taiwan and we can roll into another place and you know there's no business person saying hey uh we're apple if we get into a fight you're gonna lose all the jobs building iphones and you know americans are gonna have to pay three thousand dollars an iphone or not

SPEAKER_57: be able to upgrade them as fast it's gonna suck for everybody there's a lot to lose here i think the

SPEAKER_09: iphone could be the number one reason no we don't go to war with taiwan i know it sounds silly but tsmc uh apple those ceos are gonna call byd and say can we work this out because we're gonna have to lay

SPEAKER_00: people off if we don't there was a metric back in the day that said like no two countries that both had mcdonald's had ever gone to war the point being that if you're part of the global economy you don't that didn't end up lasting forever but it's a good thomas freeman code quote it was a great

SPEAKER_320: memorable quote yeah i believe it's thomas freeman yeah i well i used to read thomas

SPEAKER_00: reuben back in the day i read hot flat and crowded back in the day i'm very hopeful that you're right i really do but i'm going to be curious to see going back to our discussion about what we can afford and what we cannot where we are willing to subsidize to maintain domestic production and where we are willing to not subsidize to not have domestic production because we ended up so dependent on china because it was the cheapest most free market way to get stuff built and if we don't want that to be a hundred percent then we're gonna need to make a decision about where to spend um but let's put all that aside jason and let's talk about something that was uh on your mind which was apparently um a dust dump in the san francisco foodie instagram tick tock world this this was a very interesting story

SPEAKER_22: and i have all the clips and quotes but i'm curious first of all why did this catch your eye i think

SPEAKER_04: there's something very interesting going on right now which is the power of influencers is so great um that you can destroy a local business or you can make a local business and tick tock is kind of the new nerve center for this yes yelp sure people had complaints you know with the reviews and everything but there's something about tick tock and its virality that there is too much influence from influencers in some cases and then sometimes chefs want to stand up for themselves it gets messy and i just think it's a sign of what's to come which is the human brain is not meant

Chamath Palihapitiya: to take on a million people a thousand people at once the first time i really saw this happen was my

SPEAKER_02: friend josh harris from we live in public when he started producing himself with cameras everywhere 24 hours a day you can go look at this award-winning documentary i'm in it if you want to see a younger chubby or jake out we live in public by audio timon or it won sundance i'm in the film i was like kind of a narrator because i was josh harris's best friend at the time or one of his best friends the human brain can only take so much negativity directed at it there was this also thing with

SPEAKER_57: gawker in the aughts uh has jessica landed this oh i was on twitter that day yeah yeah there's this

SPEAKER_33: good person um she wrote a joke that was inappropriate got on a plane it was an off-color joke it went viral while she was on the plane when she lands there's people from the press on her 12 hour flight waiting for her to land and this whole thing has jessica landed yes became a mean now gawker was abhorrent at that time they were just really cruel to people there's a whole litany of that they also broke a lot of stories early they outed anderson cooper and tim cook there was a lot of weird stuff that went over there this was one of the horrific things where like this poor person was kind of destroyed i think they made a documentary out of it actually or some other kind of thing between the writer and the and the woman jessica this kerfluffle that we're seeing here is indicative of the lack of empathy that happens in social media but it has gotten extremely extremely uh from those

Chamath Palihapitiya: days you know it might be tens of thousands of people now it's hundreds of thousands millions the

SPEAKER_57: stakes are much higher now okay and it happens much faster let's just talk about the story

SPEAKER_00: and okay so to give a little context there's a guy named jeffrey lee and um written up by local media as quote to create a force behind a restaurant called juni it's the western edition i've never been there i am not an omakasi guy i'm not a sushi guy i don't eat fish so i've never been but it's

SPEAKER_22: fantastic i've been thanks jason uh i actually very much trust your opinion on this so if he says it's

SPEAKER_00: good it probably is really freaking spectacular uh there were two spin-off restaurants that were kind of casual one was called the hand roll project and then there was the hamburger project which opened in late 2024 and that is what we were talking about so what follows is a 53 second clip from a woman named catwalk sf over on tick tock describing her experience at this new restaurant the sf chronicle

SPEAKER_335: just reported that this spot sold a thousand burgers their first two days of business so i followed the hype and i got in line the menu is simple with three smash burgers starting at 6.89 for a classic single

SPEAKER_337: and you can upgrade your meal for 35 with a little czar nicolai caviar i started with the loaded fries with cheese sauteed onion and hp sauce i think they forgot the sauce on mine and i just forget the fries if you're thinking about giving this spot a shot here's a look at some very sexy crispy lacy edges on the smash burger i started with the single wisconsin with sauteed onions hp sauce and whipped butter this was good not great these are thin burgers they're giving ozopic burgers i'd order a double wisconsin if i were to do it again and i give it a 7.2 here i am getting after the classic this one has diced white onion and pickles on it this was really not for me it was all bread and not hot enough for me at all i give the classic a 5.1 feels like a good review so far what i ate not a slam for me i saw a friend from the infatuation as i was walking out and i'm excited that is the original clip and jason i

SPEAKER_231: thought that the starting point here was gonna be much spicier but that clip simple easy her personal

SPEAKER_200: opinion she went fast now i don't know if she's paid to do these reviews or what but you know i think

SPEAKER_04: this has become incredibly popular especially with you know dave port and i doing his pizza reviews and the impact that has on businesses he can make or break a business right so this has become something

SPEAKER_200: that chefs are aware of important i had a couple of flare-ups uh because he gave people low ratings or high ratings it's very polarizing criticism as we know from anton ego in ratatouille is a dicey

Chamath Palihapitiya: business but that one did not seem uh spicy or not spicy just seemed like a just a person's

SPEAKER_22: impression of the burger yeah she gave a 7.2 to the first one and by the way shout out to her for eating two burgers back to back bang bang i mean that is you know you're a food person when you can not i would have passed out immediately yeah not an olympic then the chef in question started to uh comment on her social

SPEAKER_00: send dms and that led us to our second clip when she showed a a number of these jason and i think this shows a bit of the response to the response to her original review and i the

SPEAKER_335: asshole for leaving an honest review for the viral san francisco smash burger spot hamburger project i tried it and it just wasn't for me i was there shortly after the grand opening and they need some time to work out the kinks this is what the owner wrote to me today because someone needs to tell you to grow up it's pathetic being damn near 50 and trying to have influence over 20 year old some things to try to remain some kind of sense of relativity all the chefs look down on it and one of us has to tell you then he said i said instead you're attacking my agent wait he said that's just an honest review of what you put out there wow and then apparently uh one of his kids left like a

SPEAKER_00: voicemail for her and there's other people that have tried in with other notes about this this guy in question and it does seem that he's fired off at critics uh a number of times and i'm curious where

SPEAKER_80: you think blame lands here i think you've tipped your hand from the intro here but after seeing that

SPEAKER_09: what's your opinion you know i think there's a lack of empathy online when you're face to face you would never say the things you'll say online absolutely everybody's going through their own personal journey their own story somebody might have a sick parent they could have a child you know having a tough time at school they could be behind on their rent or their their mortgage it's hard to be a small

SPEAKER_33: business owner and to be under constant criticism also not hard on the other side it is just criticism sticks and stones may break your bones but words should never hurt you so you should be able to if you're putting yourself out there and you want to be viral and get a thousand burgers in two days which if they're 15 bucks each which is kind of what a burger costs these days in uh san francisco or a 15 ticket size or 25 ticket size sure hey they made 25 000 in two days from a hole in the wall pretty good business live by the top die by the top you got to be able to control yourself and i do think you know saying things when you're criticizing something like she did where she kind of frames it as hey not for me or maybe they made a mistake or they're getting the kinks out i think those are all good caveats to put in there so the person could be under a lot of pressure and you know i have great sympathy i saw my dad go have a lot of pressure when the financial crisis happened in 1987 and he lost his second business just hard and so you know i have empathy for everybody all around my understanding

Chamath Palihapitiya: is the chef now has left all these because he's been getting so much hate for trying to counter the

SPEAKER_02: criticisms he's gotten gosh i mean i'm sounding to sound like a softy but a little bit of grace for

Chamath Palihapitiya: everybody here maybe a little bit of reconciliation maybe a beer summit like obama did where hey why doesn't she come work there and make some burgers and run work the front line and why doesn't he uh make her a three-star and invite her to go have omakasa that's how i would handle it i would have invited hey listen thank you for the review we appreciate the attention sorry we only got a 7.2 here's what we're trying to accomplish would love to invite you to come as my guest if you're into omakasi because i do appreciate you giving us a little attention if you can give us a second shot in 30 days when we've got everything up and running hey you can pay for it or it's on me here's a coupon code just you know show this here and there's a way to handle it with grace i guess that's like jujitsu

SPEAKER_22: that's like taking the incoming and turning it into something that like works out in your favor

SPEAKER_00: right i do think though that you have touched on something that's super important which is that it is so easy i think to be someone who has never received a lot of online hate and presume that that actually has no impact on you because it's all digital now in this case i think jeffrey lee

SPEAKER_291: based on everything that i saw went too far and was a bit of a jerk and should have had his wrist

SPEAKER_172: slop firing him maybe a bit excessive i thought the reviews certainly excessive i wonder if he i think

SPEAKER_200: he might be doing a little seppuku there where in order to keep the restaurants going and not have

SPEAKER_41: them have a problem he said you know what i'll just resign got it is he actually resigned i don't know he's got ownership in these things relieved uh but yeah but so i mean maybe he needs a month off

SPEAKER_57: to just take a breather um it's a hard gig right but i think you know that but most people don't

SPEAKER_00: have your skin and that's the thing that's why i'm glad you're being empathetic because we yeah the last show we were talking about how you won't close your dms and i'm like close your dams and you're

SPEAKER_02: like no i want to know i want to know who the anonymous accounts are who are saying the stuff you know i have security protocols like anybody in my profile here if somebody i had somebody i'll just tell a little story here i had somebody that docks me based on a picture of like my backyard

SPEAKER_04: this person i'll just tell the story okay person is upset because of something i said on the show they decide to dox me they decide to put my primary residence is worth 10 million dollars what do i know blah blah blah and you know how they got my photo they went back two years when i took a picture of the tree line in my backyard they reversed image searched it and they tweeted it this is on july 4th

SPEAKER_02: weekend i say to the guy i look the guy up i google search him because i have security protocols so now

SPEAKER_06: i gotta get the security company involved to find out if this person's gonna jump my fence right right okay you know i have security i have guns i got cameras i got alarms i have a security detail i mean i got it at all i don't talk about it but i'll talk about here for a brief sec i uh finally on linkedin i look

SPEAKER_09: at the companies hey that company looks very familiar to me i click the company i know the ceo who we worked for i screenshot it checkmate i send it to him and i say hey dipshit first of all happy independence day number two your boss and i had drinks at this conference played cards yada yada and um i'm about to email them what you just did what do you think their response is going to be to you doxing me hmm he says are you going to do that i said well why don't you call me so i get off the treadmill july 4th i say hey dum-dum do you realize how dangerous this is for me i have kids yeah i know you don't have kids and i know you're probably 24 year old and he goes no i'm actually married i just had my first kid i said oh that's great what a blessing how old's your kid this is four weeks i said you got a four week old kid it's july 4th and you're doxing me knowing that i could have my kids get attacked that's serious here kid and uh i said so you're married i said i tell you what go talk to your wife tell her what you did and ask her what she thinks is the best thing for you to do i get an apology letter from him with his wife cc yeah they're dumb you think and i said considerate lesson learned water under the bridge i wish you great success with your four-year-old i encourage you to have more kids that are a blessing and uh next time i see your boss i'll tell them what an amazing individual you are uh and i won't ever mention this again wife responds back thank

SPEAKER_96: you jake by the way he's one of your biggest fans and i just thanked and i'm like what yeah okay so

SPEAKER_277: i was with you until that last sentence now i'm perplexed this is i i'm bringing it back to grace

SPEAKER_09: all right hit me i think sometimes people will lose their logic etc when they're online too much we and this goes back to we live in public you watch the we live in public show and you see people lose their minds when they're online too much they say things that are over the line they and the empathy it's the i wrote a blog post at the end you know two decades ago called the end of empathy i think mike syndicated on tech crunch at some point and i said listen you know the end of empathy is here you got to really remember there are humans on the other side of this and they all got their own stories now this sounds crazy for me because i'm a full contact guy but the reason i tell you this is as full contact as i am you know i always think about the humanity of individuals what are they going

SPEAKER_04: through i just think what's my worst day and then i double it and say what if that person's going through that and let's put myself in their shoes right and it's a it's a christian thing i grew up uh catholic yeah it was drilled into me turned the other cheek you know do on to others all these great principles that christ and i'm not a religious person spiritual not religious but christ had some pretty darn good i had concepts and ideas whether he's a historical figure or he is the son of god wherever you want to put him on the spectrum if he was a fictional character like batman that's some good ideas so you don't have to be religious to to take some of those ideas to heart as we go into the new year in a contentious time i brought the story up because i just want everybody to think about the humanity on the other end and that's why i tweet the dms i get yeah sometimes say horrible things about people because i always want people to remember there's a human being on the other side and every time i tweet those i get a hundred other dms with people saying the nicest kindest things to me i saw you got those eight dms yeah you tweeted them i want to let you know you know hey here's a

SPEAKER_57: story of how you had a positive impact on my life etc and um be kind to each other because that's where

SPEAKER_393: we can end the show i want to get your take on everything i said one tiny little thing about this

SPEAKER_00: because i do not have to have security i do not have to do a lot of things that you do and uh i honestly don't think that i aspire to what it would require to have the need for that because even i are a little bit different in a couple of ways but i do have a very private spouse who works in in healthcare and that means she has a lot of patient contact which means she has very different privacy rules than i do yeah she's always giving me a hard time like don't post that don't post that i almost can't post pictures at all because she's so worried about what's in the background and what people and i've always been kind of like oh it's not that big of a deal yeah but your story just scared me straight again so i'm gonna go ahead and um go inside after this and give her a

SPEAKER_80: big hug and tell her that i'm gonna post no pictures ever again because that is really really scary because i have kids too man and there's nothing i think i wouldn't do for them i think people

SPEAKER_53: are overall great human beings true and even when they have a bad day i still think they're great

SPEAKER_04: human beings like this kid who was in this finance company i think actually is a good kid who had a bad day yeah and if we're all going to get judged on our worst 10 moments in our life we're all going to fail and we're all going to fail pretty equally i think yeah uh on average so when somebody screws

SPEAKER_02: up like the chef or the kid in private finance or maybe i did i said something spicy about a ceo and maybe it was a little too personal and it upset them you know like whenever this stuff happens

SPEAKER_41: i just always think just dial it back and i always try to be judicious when i say stuff now forget the

SPEAKER_78: beer summit between the woman and the chef we need to beer some of you and palmer lucky to quash that

SPEAKER_403: beef because i feel like i feel like it's living over your shoulder well no it's just only because

SPEAKER_57: people keep riling it up they keep riling it up would i have said the things as spicy as i said them 10 years ago no no could the press have been wrong in that instance and i was commenting on stuff

SPEAKER_240: that's wrong it is quite possible if it is if it is i you know i totally apologize for it you know

SPEAKER_29: all right so let's let's leave on this beautiful positive note i'll just say this don't forget

SPEAKER_00: everybody uh jason will be on different country for a bit so the next show will be on wednesday it's going to be in the morning if you're here in the us so you will get to see me before i've had my seventh cup of coffee so you welcome you've never seen that before everybody we found the only time that was kind of okay for both of our schedules and y'all so we're doing our best to make sure that

SPEAKER_80: we're bringing you the twist love so shoot us some notes we will be on youtube then but jason

SPEAKER_93: fly safe in the meantime and have fun skiing all right my brother uh i just want to say going into the new year what an amazing job you've done oh thanks man all right uh everybody this

SPEAKER_00: has been twist he's x.com jason i'm x.com alex we're back on wednesday morning fly safe we'll see you then toodles bye bye