SPEAKER_01: tech wrench just got sold to a group company called regent that dropped out of the sky no

SPEAKER_00: one saw that coming like all these things it's probably an seo play i'm guessing it's a fire

SPEAKER_03: sale an seo plan they're going to cut two thirds of the writers and uh game over what do you think

SPEAKER_06: alex uh you can have an opinion no i i i mean i'm this is one of those times that i'm so conflicted

SPEAKER_09: it's hard to it's hard to be clear-headed i mean i love so many people there we like to yeah we

SPEAKER_11: this is like this is where you could actually uh you know earn your bones here just let it rip okay i

SPEAKER_01: think the people complaining that the media isn't sufficiently nice to tech are a bunch of whiners

SPEAKER_14: and they should go sit upon their thrones of gold and stop convention about people who make one

SPEAKER_17: one thousandth of their income this week in startups is brought to you by atlassian from mvp to ipo atlassian for startups provides your team the right tools to plan track and collaborate on work head to atlassian.com software startups to see if you qualify for 50 free seats for 12 months fidelity private shares if you want an all-in-one equity management platform fidelity private shares has you covered visit fidelity private shares.com mention this podcast for 20 off your first year subscription and lemon.io get access to lemon hire a platform with more than 80 000 pre-vetted engineers that you can interview within 48 hours get two thousand dollars off your first hire at

SPEAKER_19: lemon.io higher today all right everybody welcome back to this week in startups we go live monday wednesday and friday typically at noon but uh i gotta get out on that ski mountain with my two daughters

SPEAKER_20: it's the end of the season uh it looks like we're overcast we might get some flurries uh yesterday was my 30th day i set a goal just when my friend tony shade you met tony i think maybe i have met tony a

SPEAKER_23: couple times yeah yeah yeah it was one of my good friends and um he passed away and uh he was a great guy he was a really good human being he created a company called zappos and for that link exchange

SPEAKER_27: it's one of the most generous people ever met in my life you remember he had that he he owned a bunch of buildings in downtown las vegas that he was going to make into sort of this new tech hub and when what's trending when we would go down there to cover ces he would let us stay there and he took really

SPEAKER_29: good care of us he was a really nice did you stay at the apartment building he had or did you stay at

SPEAKER_31: the okay no he had he had a nicer place too we stayed at yeah he had like apartment buildings and

SPEAKER_27: condos for people who were working on those tech companies around there and he just let us stay

SPEAKER_36: there for i think for free yeah he would do that um again back to this crazy generosity that tony

SPEAKER_20: shea had and uh people that people have asked me like what why are you so like obsessed with trying to hit a certain number of days um you know he he had some sadness in him you know he had the depression i think uh and um yeah the anxiety and no amount of money cures that you know like you you can become a billionaire and sometimes it can make it worse and i just wanted to start the show just talking

SPEAKER_40: a little bit about him for a second with you one because you got to meet him i would go to vegas

SPEAKER_19: and you know i kind of had made my bones already and i you know i knew people in vegas they would uh

SPEAKER_20: give me free rooms uh you know a very nice hotel sometimes or upgrade me to suites and i would go there and i would never stay there because he would invite me to stay in a trailer park with him and some of my fondest memories in life were going and staying in those trailer parks and then i would get back from ces stuff or meetings or poker tournaments whatever it was and uh it would be 1am and he would come out of his trailer he's a billionaire he's staying at an airstream and he'd knock on my door i heard you come in i was waiting just in case you came back this is a guy who's a billionaire one a.m i come out we'd sit by a fire pit and we talked for two hours it's just incredible yeah and one time in a poker game and i'm going to tell the story in a documentary my friend is playing uh is making if ever comes out um and he uh we're playing it's it's somewhat high stakes but not like millions of dollars but tens of thousands of dollars are on the table and wow you know it's

SPEAKER_45: i mean it's high stakes you know trust me for a kid from brooklyn when i'm in a 10 20 30 000 pot my

SPEAKER_36: it does make me think for a second i have to actually remember that like that number doesn't impact me now but you know that's the thing about high stakes it's meant to make you

SPEAKER_20: consider your behavior because your blood will flow if there's a tesla in the pot or as i tell people win a prius lose a prius i said famously at chamois game and that always stuck uh and uh he didn't care about money he he wins his pot and he had you know had a couple of pops and it was late you know it's early morning poker game and you know he needed to go to bed and so i'm trying to get him to go to bed um and we have this like final hand and i i had you know uh a full house and somebody

SPEAKER_47: else you know has a straight and then he turns over in this thirty thousand dollar pot i kid you

SPEAKER_32: not a straight flush uh you know really great hand in poker one of the best and he's like and i'm like okay we're going to count your money you're going to bed we count his money it's you know he's got over thirty thousand dollars a prius and uh he uh says to me you take spend it you know on your daughters whatever i said no no tony tony you can't take your money just you won the money if i had won it you would pay me and if this person in the hands had won it they would get paid right this is just how the nature of poker is right we we we don't feel bad afterwards we all sat down at the

SPEAKER_53: table it's gambling um and he's insistent and he's had a couple drinks and he's he's not being belligerent but he's being insistent that he will not take the money i'm trying to get him to bed he says i've refused to take this money the game has stopped there's 20 there's two tables going there's 20 people in the room now it's becoming a bit of a thing and he says you take me pushes thirty thousand dollars to the dealer the dealer looks at me and i do a big sigh and i think um you know these are well-paid dealers these are my dealers yeah yeah yeah these are my

SPEAKER_60: professional they get professional vegas dealers they're they're getting these are the ones who

SPEAKER_58: play in home games who can handle certain types of situations that only happen in home games

SPEAKER_53: things happen sometimes somebody has a little too much to drink somebody somebody maybe throws cards at a dealer sometimes a you know a situation can happen accusation i mean yeah well and this is

SPEAKER_27: their career they don't want to risk their whole reputation on one thirty thousand dollar pot like word gets out hey this dealer steals pots you know yeah yeah so this is a yeah but even beyond that

SPEAKER_66: there you know anyway you just have this moment this will be one of the greatest stories of all time

SPEAKER_53: you know how i have my moments like i just and i have one of these moments in my mind where i'm like

SPEAKER_23: my timing and i just said uh this is like one of the greatest moments of all time and uh i look at

SPEAKER_70: him i look at the dealer now the other dealer for the other tables watching now too because the whole

SPEAKER_20: room is stuck and they're both looking at and there's a third dealer to rotate in so we have three dealers so these are gonna get 10 10 times each and this is yeah they're right they're thinking they're

SPEAKER_36: thinking we're splitting this three ways and they're also thinking jake house not gonna let him do this

SPEAKER_20: they don't want to make their money that way you know guys have too much to drink exactly and i look at him i look at them and i said uh okay and the dealers are like no no we can't accept it and i look

SPEAKER_77: at the dealers and i say it's okay he can afford it and he's like that's right i can afford it yeah he goes to bed it's a few hundred zappos you know i take the dealers i give them their 10k

SPEAKER_80: wow greatest night of their lives that's a huge night that story was told every poker game around

SPEAKER_20: the world legendary poker story for 15 years and it gave tony so much joy because he didn't even

SPEAKER_82: remember he did it he was barely he was barely with us he were drinking having fun and uh that story's

SPEAKER_20: been told thousands of times since he passed away and i just haven't told myself it was a long story but uh well you know i i told myself uh as we were in the audience here you know uh when he passed away i was talking to some friends about it you know he said uh he always just wanted to have more fun specifically with you jacob he wanted to hang out and have more fun i just thought to myself you know what that's a good operating system i'm gonna try to have a little more joy and a little more fun in my life yeah and that's what matters the one thing i do that inevitably leads me joy of fun is when i do a podcast especially with you lon i love doing it we've been together for many years kind

David Friedberg: thing to say and uh you know i'm super excited we're going to spend more time together but at the

SPEAKER_20: end of your life all these chip sacks uh you know and other victories and things they don't really get remembered all that much what gets remembered is the funny times you have with your friends exactly and the joy you have and i gotta tell you on this mountain or when i'm in the second my friend laughing it up skiing like i did this year all those moments they just add up to like all this incredible drama life so i just set joy goals and the only joy goal i set is just that getting out there on the mountain with my daughters and friends and and then making funny podcasts for

SPEAKER_96: you all to listen to maybe learn something during them i feel like at the end of your life you're not going to look back and be like oh if only it was one more deal if only i had made one more big deal

SPEAKER_27: one more robin hood one more time one more uber you do those in order to fund and allow for the fun parts the the social parts the parts with family and friends exactly exactly so anyway that's

SPEAKER_80: right lest anybody think i'm just like uh retired and ski all the time i just go out for two hours

SPEAKER_20: 40 days a year it's 80 hours of my life and i just i'm trying to hit 41 days and this will be day 31 saturday sunday will make it day 33. so i'm within seven days of time my record eight days of breaking

SPEAKER_29: it or so we'll see if it happens if it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't maybe i have to

SPEAKER_102: go to new zealand at some point it's a goal you know you put a goal out there you know yeah all

SPEAKER_103: right if you're shipping a product or rolling out an update you're building a company you need to be organized right we know that atlassian has exactly what you need to streamline your work and smash your goals and the atlassian for startups program is packed with all the tools you need like jira where you can track every task sprint and bug that's the industry standard confluence another industry standard for team collaboration and documentation and of course loom for quick video explainer creation now loom is really brilliant my team started using loom on their own they started paying for it on their own why they wanted to get credit on the investment team for communicating to me the general partner of the firm why they wanted to invest in a company so they would do a loom where they recorded over a recording of an interview they did with a founder or visiting their website and going through why they want to invest in a company and this was so great for me i would be skiing in japan i would be on a flight to new york to see my parents and all of a sudden i get a notification from one of my team members hey watch this loom and i get the link for the loom i click it and then i can put comments at any time so it's like doing a conference call but on my time asynchronously and i can communicate right there on the video also included in atlassian for startups is compass jira product discovery bitbucket so much more all powered by atlassian intelligence that's their built-in ai atlassian software helps companies like canva cloudflare and rivien keep growing and keep innovating whether you're brainstorming on sticky notes or scaling to the big leads atlassian is here to accelerate your startup's growth check out atlassian for startups where eligible startups get up to 50 seats for free for one full year that is absurdly generous why can they be so generous at atlassian because they're the standard atlassian is the standard and they are generous to startups because they were once a startup i remember meeting them 20 years ago in australia what a great company head to atlassian.com startups twist for complete details all right i wanted to start the show today with you

SPEAKER_29: and um you know as we get into a rhythm with you and alex here we had man explosive show on wednesday a lot of you know back and forth it was a lot of emotions going on um we're gonna do a follow-up on that story but i really want to get the show really focused on founder stories one of the great places we find founders talking is reddit um and sometimes on her news yeah hacker news good discussions a shout out paul graham for creating that or whoever created it whoever create hacker news great job by the way they never changed it reddit never changed yeah they just focused on the community there's something really special about that as we're designing the new inside app we have to keep that in mind don't change things just make it work and then focus on the community

SPEAKER_31: i find hacker news very comforting it hasn't changed in so long you can always go there

SPEAKER_100: it's it's it's exactly the same as it ever was and so little of the internet is like that everything changes all the time i know i know paul graham created it one of my producers paul graham created

SPEAKER_32: i know paul graham created he wasn't the one who wrote the code i don't think i think there was

SPEAKER_118: specifically a person who did it and i think there's an open source version of it which is really interesting there was a time when everybody thought there would be like a thousand hacker news right anyway putting it aside we find really good stories there why do we find good stories there if we ask people for stories a lot of times when they pitch us a question here for me those stories are

SPEAKER_120: not authentic they're like packaged from backdoor promotions it's a little annoying for me but i told lon just hang out there see what's going on with the vibes on reddit um we have this weekend startups one where people are talking about stuff entrepreneurs startups there's a bunch of different places people talking about business so that's a lot to surprise me with conversations there and then we i want him to round trip them well let's go with our first uh question you found

SPEAKER_32: on one of these yeah we'll go find the hard ones let's work backwards from hard yeah i'm trying to

SPEAKER_100: find questions where there's like multi-stages or it's a little specific or something that you can really speak to there's a lot of general questions and i skipped them question one let's start with question one court hey this is a technical founder they say they're in need of a reality check this

SPEAKER_27: comes from user james calhoun too in reddit's uh startups community i'll summarize they are a technical founder they built 100 of their company's product on their own it was not their idea they have a co-founder slash ceo it was that person's idea they then built it entirely themselves now this cto says he was promised equity by the non-technical founders but now that the product is built the the the plans keep shifting and changing and he finds that he's being offered a lot less equity than his other partners who did not build the project they're also now telling him that he's quote not founder material and he needs to quote acknowledge the ceo's leadership okay one one more factoid he claims that he still owns the ip rights of the code base as leverage so what should he do and i think the even bigger question for you is what could founders do to avoid ever having this problem down

SPEAKER_123: the road sure so before you start any project you should document the right arrangement if you are the

SPEAKER_36: idea person the business person with the idea you're going to want to give what's called a work for hire contract to anybody who works for you uh and you pay them a salary in exchange for that so i own this week in startups lon is an employee of mine well-paid well-trusted and adored employee he has signed an ip assignment when he comes to workers same with alex and they sign this thing that says hey you don't own this week in startups jcal does now they don't expect to own it etc but if the three of us got together on a weekend and i said hey let's do a pod it's going to be called three three dudes talk about you know movies um you would probably want to say here's the arrangement i came up with the name of the show i came up with the ip uh and everybody works for me i know this because this is what happened with all in i ran all in out of my company here two years into it it went from being like a jcal production where it was one of my employees doing it i paid for everything they showed up to becoming a company we formalized it it was a little bit of a negotiation we had a little hand wringing and it's always uncomfortable whose value is more etc we wound up in the all-in situation just saying hey there's four of us i just said to everybody listen if everybody shows up every week four people will do 25 each if you want me to be the ceo of it i'll take a little more equity they

SPEAKER_29: didn't they wanted to hire a ceo i was like that's fine and you know what worked out great there's a ceo company makes a ton of money all i have to do is show up and do that if we had done it earlier it would have been less uh negotiation and time consuming so you always want to do that in advance in this case the mistake the ceo of this company made apparently is if he didn't pay this person then that person does hone the hype he does own what he created and it was created on his laptop now if you're creating on my laptop that launch gave you and you signed an ip assignment then when it went to a judge or whatever if it ever got there which it never would

SPEAKER_36: your lawyer wouldn't take the case they'd be like you don't have a case here kid you got paid a salary signed an ip assignment case closed so they did this wrong now they have to have a hard

SPEAKER_29: conversation these guys are insulting him they don't value him he's going to have to establish his value with them and the way he's going to have to establish his value is by having an attorney giving the attorney a thousand dollar retainer and paying them four or five hundred bucks an hour and it might get up to 10 hours and this is going to be messy and that attorney has to say listen my

SPEAKER_120: client you know and that's going to probably make the whole relationship toxic right because now they're now they've got to get an attorney so if all of them watch this and they understand that this whole situation is going to implode because nobody wants to spend and do a legal battle over this is probably not that much at stake i think what the the folks who are running the company have to determine is is this person do they actually mean what they're saying when they say he's not founder material because it apparently he is because they picked him that's like picking a

SPEAKER_118: spouse lon and being like you're not really a great husband material it's like but you picked me right so what are we talking about here what does it say about you are you

SPEAKER_56: also partner material if you pick me and then you're deriding me has not found you know you ever meet

SPEAKER_36: that couple at a dinner party yes we hate each other and you're like yeah why'd you pick each other why are you still together like you know you're both opting into this yeah so i think what they have

SPEAKER_29: to do is sit down and he has to just say listen i want to be a co-founder i have a lot you may not think i do but you picked me and so i want to be an equal co-founder and i want to build with you for five years and the way we do that is we are put ourselves on a five-year vest uh if anybody has to leave it gets advanced one year let's say so you know if the two of them gang up on a farm day one he gets a plus a year right so that stings a little bit so they have to decide oh my god if we're each getting

SPEAKER_132: 33 percent divide that by let's say four and you know it's typically a four-year vest but i like the

SPEAKER_36: five-year vest for co-founders that's eight percent they kind of just give him eight percent of the

SPEAKER_29: company plus whatever he earned already maybe they've been doing this for a year he has 16 of the company it's like it kind of stings right yeah it's supposed to sting it's supposed to sting because there's something at value here and there's a long line of people who left youtube snapchat early and they got equity chunks for you know the other parties might say not doing anything but in reality they did do something they did obviously contribute so he's going to just have to be prepared emotionally to not continue on with them this would be my advice to them if they were like my sibling uh tell them you want to be equal founders or nothing or i need to have this percentage whatever the percentage you think you deserve is i want 25 you two can split 75 i agree i'm not like a ceo i'm a cto that's what i think is fair if you guys want to pay me 25 great i want to get paid 80 of whatever dollars you get paid i want to get 80 of whatever equity you have i agree you have more experience i think i'm 80 as good as you guys and that's going to be my contribution over four years take it or

SPEAKER_120: leave it if not you can buy this code base for me or i'm going to go do my own thing because we don't have an agreement that's it and be hard and he's got to he's got to be hardcore and believe what

SPEAKER_32: he's saying and he's got to emotionally be ready to lead i think that's the thing is yeah he like

SPEAKER_100: he it's probably a little bit emotional like he built this thing he doesn't want to leave it by but you have that's the only way to like make the deal is be ready to walk away this advertisement is

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SPEAKER_141: service welcome to the program kristen thank you so much jason it's great to see you again yeah great

SPEAKER_29: to see you as well maybe just from a product perspective what are you trying to accomplish with

SPEAKER_142: the product so jason we are super excited about our cap table management and data room platform we want to make it super simple for founders and startup operators to manage all sort of ownership and equity in the company and essentially prepare to raise we want to make sure that everybody goes into these fundraising conversations well prepared they're ready to share their cap table and that they're ready to go through due diligence as they're trying to close their round so from a product perspective that is where we're laser focused and that product is really well built really

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SPEAKER_136: equity management platform fidelity private shares they've got you covered visit fidelityprivateshares.com that's one word no spaces no dashes fidelityprivateshares.com and uh hey mention this week in startups they'll give you 20 off your first year subscription once again fidelityprivateshares.com and tell them that you heard about it here on this week in startups uh great great fine there and um

SPEAKER_132: if the person wants to email me anytime i'm happy to to create emails with them yeah i'm gonna go

SPEAKER_147: leave this as a comment on there once the video goes up and i'll let them know one more question uh

SPEAKER_100: this one comes from i found a new subreddit that i really like founders hub it's a just community of

SPEAKER_27: founders uh knocking ideas around joining each other's companies a really nice little reddit community

SPEAKER_100: maybe our first caller should join that community maybe they should they definitely should uh so this

SPEAKER_27: one comes from a big brainy is the user's name on reddit they are building a tracker for founders who are building their startups publicly so the idea is you're you can track your progress and failures you turn the process of building your product into early marketing for your company yes and you're getting real-time feedback from potential users while you're still in building mode the system even nudges founders to log their growth track what they're working on and release new updates once every 15 days so my question is to you are you interested in this do you think this is a useful tool and what are

SPEAKER_155: the pluses negatives of building your product in public rather than stealth if you build your

SPEAKER_36: product in public it's obviously giving intelligence over to potential competitors the truth is potential

SPEAKER_29: competitors are going to watch you like a hawk anyway um in this building public movement you will get idea great ideas you will get new employees and you will get new customers you will also educate people on what your plans are so be thoughtful in how you do it it's one thing to be like hey here's the new version coming and we have three features what order do you want to see us release release these features or you know hey here's what i built i was vibe coding pull up fresh who used to work for me his uh twitter handle and you will see him vibe coding this weekend he was making some sort of like a 1990s retro you know health app and he built in public and he's you know he worked for me for like seven years great great great employee uh and team member here but he wanted to go be an entrepreneur so i let him go do that and i actually backed it so he's doing this sunseek it helps you improve uh he's building apps to help you uh be healthier whole plunge app sunseek getting sun and you know he puts some he's into apple watches and all that stuff and if you scroll down you'll just see in his feed uh if you scroll down him building like different pieces of software and showing it so he was vibe coding this week and he was bringing this like he made a uh a mac retro runner app right yeah and so now what has he done with this and i'm not sure what this app was called um looks like retro run yeah so you know it's like it literally is using the original mac os look and feel to you know make a running app like run keeper or strava i guess track your track your runs and your roots and

SPEAKER_161: whatever i think that's what it's doing yeah so now like let's say like this is actually a killer

SPEAKER_29: idea people can go steal the idea oh maybe people want to have that retro i'll add it to airbnb we'll have a retro thing and you can switch your interface to retro uh if you like um so you know but how many views and how many replies and how many followers did he get on that tweet let's let's take a look at it here um you know most people get like when i see people like dunking on me and quote

SPEAKER_120: retweeting me i look at how many views they have they have 10 and i'm like i bet you six of them so now he's got 281 people who saw this and he got one reply he got two likes so this one didn't

SPEAKER_36: break out for him yet no but if you look at some of his other posts like his pin tweet or whatever he might have thousands of people doing that and then there's like some building public um communities where they kind of help each other so i think it's great um i wouldn't ever share things that are really great growth hacks on it i wouldn't share like really important news on it some

SPEAKER_120: people are too filled in public um and uh but for other people it gets them a ton of advice we had

SPEAKER_53: another company i think it was jenny ai you can pull up jenny ai um and they were literally releasing their revenue and now they're sort of making millions of dollars so people were like really tracking jenny with a j ai i found it jenny ai yeah and if you look at the founder you know he was

SPEAKER_120: literally sharing and some of these folks take it real serious they share their revenue they have a bad quarter they're sharing their bad quarter i mean i prefer this to not having product velocity i think this lights a fire under people on your team um and it makes it exciting for certain people who feed off the energy of a crowd great so this is like being a comedian who writes a series at home and never talks to anybody is introverted versus somebody who goes and you know uh does stand up or host a live talk show or something you know like some people feed off the energy of the crowd some people like to work quietly in the laboratory viva la difference all that matters is you're building a great product you're obsessed about product team product customer team product customer you have to be obsessed with those three things this helps your product get better it helps you build a team and it finds your customers fast so under my rubric of three things matter in startups

SPEAKER_118: team product customer uh and if you're focusing on anything other than those three you got to ask yourself like why am i focused on this right now you know like accounting or legal like yeah sometimes

SPEAKER_29: you have to do chores but you really got to get back to the big three and also anybody wants to ask

SPEAKER_27: a question that gets on the show you can post it on reddit or hacker news but you could also send it to me on twitter at uh twi i'm sorry at twi startups you could also send it to us post it on

SPEAKER_169: our reddit we'll find it if you send it dms are open right on the yeah yeah yeah feel free reach out ask us questions all right what's in the news line let's get to some news stories here we got a little

SPEAKER_170: plug in there for final university do you want to we could bring in alex and talk about yeah i know he

SPEAKER_171: was working on the docket let's get in the news here and i'm sure we can tighten up the first hey

SPEAKER_172: alex how we doing there he is hey i am doing fantastically i uh it's weird to sit backstage

SPEAKER_174: because i'm always like oh i want to jump in and then i'm like dude you no one can hear you shut up

SPEAKER_29: so it doesn't matter this is like the fun of it well we our cup runneth over now and we have plenty

SPEAKER_36: of uh we keep adding resources to show to make the show better and some of these stories are complex we did a complex story monday and wednesday which is a youtuber who set up a series of experiments

David Friedberg: it's quite controversial uh maybe you could catch us up on mark rober rober mark rober nasa scientist former former nasa scientist with an incredible youtube channel where he runs experiments this one

SPEAKER_180: this experiment might have blown up in his lap and uh people are replicating it we'll see let's see where

SPEAKER_08: we're at yes absolutely people are replicating it and people with much smaller accounts so today we're going to talk about a guy named kyle paul he runs a youtube channel it has a grand total of 2009 subscribers shout out kyle for having to start he's a couple videos out jason they mostly do five six thousand views and then most recently he replicated part of the mark rober tesla test he didn't do the fog he didn't do the water what he did was the looney tunes wall to see what he could get from the tests so this video did 145 000 views in less than 20 hours people are definitely talking about it and it goes through and answers some of the questions people had about the original video so in this case he runs a model y with full self-driving and we're going to show that clip in a second and then later on jason he also breaks out a cyber truck which has the newer self-driving hardware in it i believe it's version four and we'll take a look at that but let's start with a video of a model y and this is a 2022 model y with hardware three and fsd turned on going towards a

SPEAKER_185: looney tunes wall that kyle paul this youtuber put together this is in the in the mark video

SPEAKER_36: robler rober r-o-b-e-r rober mark rober's video he used autopilot a different technology than fsd that was the original sin i think of the video here we're correcting the original sin and using fsd full self-driving which uses um you know different pieces of the technology let's see what happens does he run into the looney tunes wall which is a wall that perfectly replicates what's behind it to try to trick cameras and as i said humans would be tricked by this in some cases too uh if they're

SPEAKER_118: not paying attention but let's see what happens i'm interested to see all right here is one of the

SPEAKER_195: tanks not touching the wheel i go much faster than 30. apparently does not see the wall does not see the

SPEAKER_01: wall does not see the wall and he breaks okay he breaks and people did say why didn't you just go through it it turns out there's i think a u-haul on the other side so if he went through it it would

SPEAKER_08: be a collision uh just to be clear he ran this test with the model y jason i think three separate times he had to apply the brakes manually each time so i think that goes to show that for the 2022 using

SPEAKER_01: fsd and hardware 3 it will not catch this particular uh scenario if it ever comes up in your life but i'm curious jason your take on the quality of the experimenter it looks like a pretty good experiment

SPEAKER_36: because if that was a human being who was paying partial attention there is a chance one out of 50 one out of 100 would go through the wall if they were you know applying their lipstick changing the radio station putting in navigation you know advancing their podcast whatever it is so

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SPEAKER_36: percentage of humans would fail and fsd uh on hardware three which is what i have is a distinctly different experience than hardware four yes so much so that i believe in the last i know in the last uh tesla call and somebody could fact check me if i'm if i'm wrong here elon said he was probably going

SPEAKER_207: to have to upgrade hardware three to hardware four yep and they were going to do that for free if fsd

SPEAKER_36: couldn't do stuff uh and they had hinted at that the call before it and then i have i can remember him sort of casually mentioning that um and i remember people at tesla talking about there's a big jump in the hardware between three and four i think that it's pretty clear i'm going to go ahead and guess hardware four gets it right hardware three doesn't let's take a look all right so next up here we have

SPEAKER_08: a cyber truck so a much more recent vehicle than 2022 running hardware for running fsd and uh two

SPEAKER_172: quick notes for folks out there who want to get into the nitty-gritty here uh kyle actually did have

SPEAKER_08: the cameraman zoom in to show the actual version number of fsd so you can get down to the absolute release date if you want anyways here is the cyber truck running the same test a little bit later in

SPEAKER_216: the day and we'll go back to that in just a second all right we are in a cyber truck full self-driving

SPEAKER_218: computer four full self-driving version 13.2.8 we have full self-driving turned on ready go hands off

SPEAKER_224: the wheel that sounds like a slow down to me it's making that millennium falcon light slow down sound

SPEAKER_01: yep and that's a stop yep so i think that that shows that at least a little bit later in the day the tesla server truck did a great job stopped early stopped very calmly didn't slam on the brakes to the last minute some people have said and we are in the business here of kind of poking holes at things that it was so much later in the day that the actual outline of the image on the wall might be more visible that said i would have more stock in that if it had been more of a chaotic stop but given how confident the cyber truck was i do think that if you are in a cyber truck you will not go through a looney tunes wall while using fsd it's a meaningless test this will never happen

David Friedberg: in the real world it's super entertaining for us and the overall picture here alan is that the looney tunes test is the stupidest test but the most but the most entertaining and so um i i think we're entering the phase of self-driving and autonomy where we're coming up with insane tests because having it stay in the lane and having it stop before a bicycle goes across it we we know it's going to do that 100 of the time so congratulations humanity tesla waymo everybody in between who's making self-driving technology people who are making breaking technology less people are going to die

SPEAKER_120: if you die in a car crash it's not going to be from a looney tunes wall it's going to be because you decided to drink and drive you decided to be a distracted driver you decided to not engage self-driving technology big picture here fsd you know putting tesla side i'll just say full self-driving

SPEAKER_136: level four level two three four driving it's here it works 80 90 95 of miles flawlessly we got work to do on the last five percent and the last five percent lawn has nothing to do with the looney tunes test so i want all these people to get back to work on better tests come up with some better tests the better test is construction zone so if these guys really want to go at it i can tell you when my hardware three model y fails it fails on 290 in austin which is under massive construction literally every time i take that goddamn highway they have moved the cones around it doesn't match

David Friedberg: the maps waymo tesla zoops ain't nobody gonna get that right in texas i can tell you that y'all

SPEAKER_27: line your thoughts uh yeah i mean the one thing i was gonna say is i do think this reinforces some things we were saying about the original mark rober video which is this is youtube this is for entertainment purposes i don't i think i think everybody watching this who was expecting or anticipating and i'm not blaming them but the people are watching this who are expecting engineering and scientific scrutiny in these perfectly variable free experiments it's it's a it's a youtube video the goal was something clicky that's going to be visually fun not something that's really going to prove

SPEAKER_242: autopilot versus full self-driving like the the roadrunner test is for fun yeah but i do like that

SPEAKER_01: people can get out there and run their own experiments and publish it like there's something very homebrew about that that i that i really do appreciate and so i i want i want this kyle guy to do the uh the fog and the and the hose videos as well right now if he does that i will donate

David Friedberg: immediately a hundred dollars to it so crowdsource the tests let people pay you to do the tests in aggregate don't take money from any specific person who has technology right just so we don't have any more muddying the waters with friends etc please and what this is now that we've gotten through three conversations about it we have you know some of the most important things self-driving works it works

SPEAKER_120: most of the time we're trying to cut entertainment works people are entertainers and then also

SPEAKER_136: if you are a nasa scientist the expectation is for you to do nasa-based experiments and this is running into a passionate group of people who know the technology better than mark did so while mark might in a nasa experiment do really well what he learned here his lesson is okay no appearance of

SPEAKER_120: impropriety because people will find it all the receipts are on the internet putting that aside

SPEAKER_136: we'll assume good faith there the second piece is he has to understand there are people every day who obsess over the version numbers of fsd and all they do is release specifically the test as fsd because

Chamath Palihapitiya: it's out there you know being beta tested with beta testers who have to remain vigilant they they are

SPEAKER_136: recording and publishing i would say hundreds of these videos per week he does one experiment their collective knowledge is so much greater than his that would be like me coming out and putting out like a chess video here explaining my chess opening like have you not looked at the internet and seen that people are playing live chess on twitch on tick tock and these people have ratings of 2000 and their grand masters doing every move like i come in and i'm like hey check out my new chess move it's like dude you're rated 900 on a good day he's in he's a 900 chess player going up against the grand masters of fsd who are going to run laps around him he should have known this going in let's do more experiments i i'm actually asking the community right now come up with the rest of the experiments we'll donate to it in fact if somebody can make these experiments i would pay them to do it

David Friedberg: for this week in startups so if this guy wants to do a couple more we'll release them here on the channel we'll come up with new ones and i don't want to just do it for tesla do it for every brand

Chamath Palihapitiya: let's get let's get an audi with the self-driving in there run four cars against it why isn't car and driver doing this like do you understand car and driver like how many videos you would get how many views you would get if you took all 10 of your top 10 cars from last year from the corvette to the

SPEAKER_123: prius and everything in between even lawns prius c rated 2 of 10. like it's great let's get the

SPEAKER_19: great car to drive after a war so anyway let's move on to the next news story what else you got

SPEAKER_01: in the news alex uh so a couple things one tech wrench just got sold to a group company called regent that dropped out of the sky no one saw that coming um this is kind of selling gadget as well i do not know but we only know about regent but we also know that region bought foundry last week which was like pc mag and so forth so something akin to a roll up here this happened literally right before we jumped on i have a bunch of texts from former colleagues that i need to go read jason but i think people who listen to the show and watch it probably are tech crunch readers

SPEAKER_02: as well so they might care that it's being sold uh details to come but probably not a great sign

SPEAKER_207: jason you've you've done more media mna than i've done it's an investment firm regent um you know

SPEAKER_36: tech crunch probably makes 20 30 million a year because of the events but it's kind of i don't want to be rude here but without like a top leader in it it's it's wayne there's no alex there there's no uh mike larrington there's no jason calacanis there's no peter rojas you know in order to have these you need to have like a person who actually runs it uh oh yahoo retained ownership to engage it so that was the one i sold them um so sounds like they want a tech crunch um i don't know who region

SPEAKER_118: is i actually had called jim lanzone if you ever wanted to sell tech crunch to let me know or engage

SPEAKER_259: it i would buy them shout out to my friend land zone for not calling me jim thanks jim uh but

SPEAKER_147: good luck it looks like region owns ec world mac world and tech advisor so this is going to join a

SPEAKER_155: suite of tech news sites that they already have and i'm sure they're willing to invest and double down

SPEAKER_263: and bring the brand back to its former glory i'm sure that's the plan yeah nope like all these things

SPEAKER_00: play um and uh i'm guessing it's a fire sale and seo plan they're going to cut two thirds of the writers

SPEAKER_120: and uh game over and actually if they own pc world mac world info world cao tech advisor all those other publications i'm reading here that they own they're going to play it straight and tech crunch has become quite lefty dare i say i think you might agree um and it started to dip into the sort of like holding truth to power anti-tech kind of space alex i think um which made it not popular amongst uh my crowd you know the um the the vcs and the ceos haven't exactly liked tech crunch is kind of

SPEAKER_06: woke position uh over the last couple years what do you think alex uh adversarial uh you can have an

SPEAKER_09: opinion no i i i mean i'm this is one of those times that i'm so conflicted it's hard to hard to be clear-headed i mean i love so many people there we like to yeah we this is like this is where you

SPEAKER_11: could actually uh you know earn your bones here just let it rip okay i think the people complaining

SPEAKER_01: that the media isn't sufficiently nice to tech are a bunch of whiners and they should go sit upon their

SPEAKER_14: thrones of gold and stop conventioning about people who make one one thousandth of their income

SPEAKER_01: also like keep in mind how how the market is set up i mean there is more people working in pr just in san francisco for tech companies than tech crunch has ever had ever worked for a period historically added together and um i think i think to make tech much better what you should do is you should quadruple the staff not not cut it by two thirds i think if this ends up being the fire sale seo play that you're describing jason it'll be an enormous loss and also i feel sorry for all the llm companies because as media continues to get gutted there's going to be less and less stuff for them to ingest so this is bad personally bad i think for the industry and bad i would say for the future as well doesn't

SPEAKER_36: make me happy maybe i'm wrong i would love to be wrong all these brands now are just like seo you know click fodder um they all like you know all the old gawker brands etc they just get bought for pennies on the dollar people just extract all the money out of them they don't invest in them the people who write for them could be in a foreign country just writing like you know regurgitated articles the only people really you know the future of the industry is subscriptions um and substacks beehive ghosts all

SPEAKER_285: those platforms we use beehive a partner of ours um really great platform if you don't want to have to pay the 10 vig uh you just want to pay like a sass product as opposed to giving all your revenue

SPEAKER_287: over the information i think new york times the subscription-based model is clearly the only

SPEAKER_36: sustainable one now once you start trying to get advertising going with the exceptional podcasts for written words you know for written words it doesn't work anymore the reason it works for podcasts is because i read the ads when i read the ads and we have a very niche audience you know if

SPEAKER_120: you're spending thirty thousand dollars on five ads or sixty thousand dollars on ten ads whatever you buy some ads on a podcast if you're a sas company and you get one customer it paid for itself that's like a little niche thing over here then the other piece of it is you're bill simmons you have a massive audience and you talk about michelobe or bud light i don't know which one he does

SPEAKER_257: um but you know whichever beer he does like you reach the masses so yeah um it's gonna be a messy

SPEAKER_295: middle for people like tech wrench i don't think this will be the last publication you see they get

SPEAKER_01: subscription and they didn't commit well man that that's a long story but they're not a single problem but part partially we were hamstrung by what you might call big company politics and a bias towards internal tooling that was already owned um but we i mean speaking very generically to protect

SPEAKER_295: other people's work but like we got it into the seven figures i was proud of that that's pretty

SPEAKER_207: good yeah yeah yeah and it would have gotten to eight figures if they just simply um put everything

David Friedberg: behind a paywall and it would be an independent strong brand they should have just said you know

SPEAKER_36: what nothing for free anymore anybody who's a subscriber can share three free stories a day if you happen to get it that way great and you have to commit that's it you know and uh well actually it's

SPEAKER_01: funny that you bring that up because when that project that i worked on tech one plus um was ended kind of shot out from underneath me uh that's when you called back and were like hey hey hey hey hey and then now i'm here so thank you yahoo and region for putting me on twist apparently

SPEAKER_302: there you go yeah yeah better deal i gave you a better deal i just worry that they're that we're

SPEAKER_27: not replacing these things nearly as quickly as we're getting rid of like the information is great bloomberg is great there are other sources for tech business news yep not that many and i mean to just lose tech crunch without something else coming in it does make me worry that so many of these sub stacks so many of these podcasts so many of these youtube channels they are basing their content on original reporting from places like tech crunch that's fueling the entire analysis industry and i think that people don't necessarily make that connection and we're getting rid of the original reporting part and counting on the commentary part to replace it but you can't have the commentary

SPEAKER_03: without the original reporting and i think that's where you hear me say things on this program

David Friedberg: like maybe i'll hire alex from tech yeah yeah you know and oh maybe i'll pay for the next fsd test

SPEAKER_36: like if it costs them a thousand dollars to paint the wall if i get that exclusively on this week and startups maybe i'll just pay for it yeah run the test here i'll give you a thousand bucks for the rights to it and uh yeah you know work yeah that's actually one of the things i want to do when we get to speaking of getting free products i was on the ski lift and i was thinking about how much i love gadgets and i have a collection of gadgets and i was like i think i'm going to start like my own little internal gadget museum uh when i have because i'm getting a big warehouse kind of space uh for production in uh austin and i was like you know what i'm just gonna and i talked to you about it

David Friedberg: like get a pc magazine type lab going because i love gadgets so much all these things are coming out and then i want to index them and store them so if somebody sends me like the guy who was on from the

SPEAKER_120: rabbit remember the rabbit oh yeah let's have him on when he releases the next version somebody reach out to them i know that we're booking some great guests here but i told him i'd have him on a year later so whatever his one year anniversary which i think would be actually maybe that was a year

SPEAKER_316: ago at ces because it wasn't this ces right it was the last year so yes it's actually been a little bit over a year now since rabbit was a big deal right so if he's still producing it he's got a

SPEAKER_120: new version maybe we should take a look at those that category but imagine he sent me two of those one we use in the lab one we put in the um archive in the museum or we get one and we just clean it up whatever i think it'd be really dope to have a full-time person in the lab just indexing all the free stuff i get putting it on shelves organizing and then showing it just here so we can track the pace of technology and then we have a party people could see all the stuff you know like in a museum type like the computer history museum type thing or gadget history museum museum museum museum of gadget

SPEAKER_228: history is fun that's a good idea be fun right yeah actually i i think i have the aesthetic picked up just and if you consider something kind of like this perhaps what is this that's the closing shot of

SPEAKER_96: raiders of the lost ark yes no i know not like that men looking into your gadgets no i just know you

SPEAKER_56: guys are film guys so i figured no i think it would be like that but imagine a row of apple like tables

SPEAKER_120: in the middle so you have the warehouse and then you have the apple like tables in the middle with

Chamath Palihapitiya: glass on them and you could open the glass put on a pair of white gloves take out the original ipod and look at and geek out and it works and it's charged and it's just sitting right there or you know here

SPEAKER_326: are all the original electric cars you know here's you know you start putting all that stuff there so i

SPEAKER_27: kind of just have like a little weird vision and that the hall of misfires you know you have the zoom the apple newton you know like all the all the amazing zune sorry yeah yeah do you remember

SPEAKER_229: the zune i oh no microsoft zune microsoft yeah i bought one day one and i will go down on this

David Friedberg: ship but the zune was fantastic and got a bad one of the best products they made i mean also the surface tablets that microsoft make are incredible i want to get one of the new surfaces there those products were always amazing they're great um what else is in the news i want to do uh two quick ipo items we

SPEAKER_01: are tracking a number of major debuts we covered the whiz exit but there are some non-m and a transactions so core weave just keep in mind that core we filed to go public there's a lot of questions about its deal with microsoft there was reporting from the ft that microsoft had broken off a deal with them they said no no no and then they worked with open ai and got a good press cycle for a 12 billion dollar deal it turns out that microsoft effectively had just said we're not going to buy this option that we had to access a lot of your compute and then open ai came in and swooped it so i think that the positive open ai story was a little bit too positive and the microsoft story was a little bit too negative i think jason given the stability that open ai provides it will go public i'm just not sure exactly at what price but that means the ipo is moving forward so net positive there we will see

SPEAKER_08: a gpu neocloud go public in the next couple of weeks which is awesome thank god fantastic

SPEAKER_228: and then finally just really quick klarna uh teamed up with doordash and uh people began to make endless

SPEAKER_01: jokes about people needing to finance their dinner um i think everyone has seen this meme by now but if you haven't this is kind of what people are saying there's a sad guy going inflation is bad and someone asks is inflation bad or did you just order a private taxi for your burrito and he says private taxi for my burrito i think people are spending too much money on things they can't afford um corner responded but i think what matters here for us is that partnerships are dropping a plenty for clarna

SPEAKER_349: good ipo momentum so i'm really hoping to get that company out and onto the public markets asap before

SPEAKER_03: anything else changes yeah and there's uh the other breaking news story is uh lindsey graham and dick durbin uh senator dick durbin they're going to introduce a bipartisan bill with apparently white support

SPEAKER_318: that would make section 230 which protects common carriers people who are publishers like wordpress

SPEAKER_120: or twitter or facebook or meta uh that would expire section 230 on january 1st 2027 basically in two years um i don't know if they have an idea of what would replace it or if this is a gun to the head move

SPEAKER_29: where they're like hey it's going to expire so that we force a new idea alex i don't know if you i i saw you tweeted it like this is not a good idea yeah uh have you read anything on it or we'll

SPEAKER_01: just cover it monday or just any quick thoughts on it yeah just really briefly the way this is being framed by everyone who's covered it back to launch point about original reporting is that it is the gun to the head point no one knows exactly what should replace section 230 but the idea is tech companies are never going to play the game while they have what is pretty robust protection so by setting a sunset date they have to come to the table the reason why that's actually i think a terrible idea is that there's no chance of passing anything through congress because bipartisanship is effectively over for now and what the gop and the democratic party want to replace section 230 is diametrically different and so i don't think that there's a way forward here also i think section 230 is awesome because it lets companies moderate their own online platforms and we shouldn't do away

David Friedberg: with it what the hell is wrong with everybody in dc i think that they have a very um they have some

SPEAKER_36: scar tissue where they feel like these companies can run amok and influence elections you know and they

David Friedberg: take it personal right so i think that's their perspective is that why does you know youtube get

Chamath Palihapitiya: to trend stories about or twitter trends stories about lindsey graham let's say i'm not gonna say any specific types of stories but you know they get to trend a story whereas a journalist would never cover those stories but the algorithm can trend it up and then you get the benefit from it the truth is something does need to change so this is going to sound crazy i don't like the gun to the head

SPEAKER_120: maneuver but i understand it so i'm just being clear here i understand that it needs to change there is

SPEAKER_47: very simple thing that needs to change the algorithm should break your 230 let me say that again ah

SPEAKER_120: ah if you use an algorithm like tick tock does or youtube does or your for you page you lose 230. the algorithms are more sophisticated now than any editorial page at the new york times ever was

SPEAKER_136: and they're doing it on a one-to-one basis if you use an algorithm to present content you lose section

SPEAKER_120: 230. that includes x my friend owns x i'm saying he should lose 230 if you force it on people and then what should happen is when you turn on x.com formerly known as twitter youtube it should present you and say you can follow these accounts and we'll make a feed out of it or you can pick one of these algorithms or you can write your own algorithm and if you use one of these algorithms you can click on show and explain and it will explain what the algorithm knows and you can tweak it you're you're

SPEAKER_27: in an interesting way kind of pitching blue sky like this was the blue sky doesn't actually function this way in a day in a day-to-day basis but the pitch was yeah it's not a social media platform it's a protocol and you can customize it any way you want so yes i want this idea is sort of out there in

Chamath Palihapitiya: the world i want to i want b-y-o-a bring your own algorithm i think there should be an app store for algorithms that works across all services i should be able to go to youtube and in fact i'll talk to lindsey graham about this anyway i'm in favor of the gun today i'm going to say right now i might be i might it sounds crazy i might be with lindsey well i might be with lindsey and i think i'm going to write a blog post about this uh and i'm going to do a sub stack or something i'm going to i'm going to share this they need to make the algorithm actually break 230. don't get rid of 230. leave 230. okay but say amend 230 to say if algorithms are not common carrier if you default to an algorithm you lose 230. if you don't want to lose 230 users have to see once a month what the algorithm showing them before they use your service and have the ability to change it or opt out of it or use a third party

SPEAKER_120: this would be a really great use of the legislature yeah and you know um what are we showing here

SPEAKER_01: this is a bill from 2021 from uh lindsey graham and it was to repeal section 230. jason i'm just

SPEAKER_172: bringing this up because i don't actually think you're in favor of the full lindsey graham position nope

SPEAKER_01: uh i so i just wanted to clarify that for everybody i'll just i'll just say that if we do end up in a world without section 230 protections we're going to end up with i mean either completely unmoderated services jason which i don't think will work for advertisers because even rumble for example has a pretty strict os or just something that is so lobotomized as to be completely uninteresting i i i might be the last section 23 defender in the world even though jason i think the algorithm point

SPEAKER_373: has merit but i i really don't trust durbin and graham to land this particular plane after things

SPEAKER_375: have gone pretty well for the internet yeah i mean i i think elon and and zuck and the first you know

SPEAKER_36: people who are freedom who are you know zuck is now freedom of speech i mean the weathervane points that direction so he's going to point that direction um but elon and ev williams jack the

David Friedberg: original twitter people they were always the free speech party of the free speech party like left of left of left on that issue um i think they're going to fight this and i think they're going to win because in korea um you when you sign up for a social media service you have to put your social

SPEAKER_120: security number in wow wow imagine if starting a twitter account required you to put your social security number and you can look it up there's a i'm not sure what they call it what the korean uh

SPEAKER_36: social security numbers call but i remember when i was there i was like and they were like yeah it's

SPEAKER_270: you don't have the right to go online and trash people anonymously in korea it's not fair it's your

SPEAKER_100: it's your national your yeah uh your red resident registration number is what they call your rrn so less people think like the rest of the world works like america

SPEAKER_120: in europe if you try to if you say something about the nazi party in germany like like you're not allowed to do that and in france you're not allowed to sell nazi memorabilia they've got some bad feelings about what happened like yahoo auctions had to ban certain things things things work differently in other countries we just have this weird delusion that everybody should be able to say whatever they want in any context anonymously all the time create 50 different accounts and then you know bombard somebody with psyops that's a uniquely american perspective

SPEAKER_06: it is not the perspective of other countries in the west who feel you have to own your words

SPEAKER_27: yeah i just feel like in this cultural and historical moment it it's a it's a bigger concern than maybe it would have been five or ten or 15 years ago if only because we have this regime now that is so interested in controlling the message and i feel like if we remove these protections from

SPEAKER_100: these tech platforms they're going to step in and fill the vacuum and it will be the trump administration deciding what it's okay for you to say online and that should be that's what everybody should be

David Friedberg: scared about when it came to executive orders i remember them saying like is obama doing too many executive orders like wasn't he the first one who kind of was like i can just do executive orders and then like an expression was like okay i'll do them and now it's like oh it's my first day i'm gonna do

SPEAKER_387: 500 yeah executive orders on the first day yeah it's like be careful folks you know like you may think like for your side this is really cool because you get a little bit of power every four

Chamath Palihapitiya: years every eight years all right everybody this week in startups.com slash doc uh we're getting active on tick tock we're getting active on instagram follow us and just do me a favor if you're super super fan of the show you appreciate the show and 2 000 plus episodes of the year just one thing you could do for me go to instagram tick tock uh and we're on youtube we're posting the shorts and just say hey jacal love the show what your favorite episode is say hi to la and say hi to alex just say hello in the comments because we're trying to wake up these shorts we're doing yeah wake up those channels because we're not using them forget about following i'm sure you do follow them but comment specifically and make it a funny comment make it a thoughtful comment that actually is worth replying to because if we get three or four comments but three or four comments on these shorts then youtube assumes like or instagram hey they're these are people watching yeah people are watching so please help us out by just posting a comment say hey jacal if if you say hey jacal i guarantee you

SPEAKER_120: i will reply to you because the team will send me the link we'll see you all next time on this week in service bye bye bye