SPEAKER_00: Okay, everybody happy Friday. First up, we're going to talk about a dystopian. We live in the future. Yes. Madison Square Garden seems to be tracking fans as they come in and out of the arena.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Uh, and the New York attorney general and AG Letitia James are concerned that there

Jason Calacanis: could be some, uh, minor civil rights violations happening here of lawyers, of all people violating the civil rights of lawyers.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Never a good look. Uh, and then, uh, we talk about how Facebook has maybe missed the boat with creators and how YouTube quartered them successfully. We move on to a great, uh, LA 26 founder interview, uh, an app that helps you breathe better and work on your breath work. And then finally.

SPEAKER_11: Another edition of okay. Boomer AI is coming for everything, including a, and a thing I think that

SPEAKER_13: people get very precious about their art playlist making is doing that now too.

SPEAKER_16: It's going to be a great show.

SPEAKER_14: Okay. Stick with us.

SPEAKER_16: This week in startups is brought to you by lemon.io.

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SPEAKER_20: All right, Molly. It's Friday. There's some news here. Yeah. That we should go over.

SPEAKER_22: Definitely. And in fact, we're just going to start with news slash a new segment that we're calling.

SPEAKER_24: It's called W-L-I-T-W-T-F or we live in the future.

SPEAKER_25: What the frack? What the frack?

SPEAKER_24: The future goes wrong.

Jason Calacanis: We live in the very dystopian future. Yeah. Exactly. So Madison Square Garden is being probed by New York Attorney General Letitia James over the use of facial

SPEAKER_03: recognition technology to effectively identify enemies and either harass them or kick them out of the garden.

SPEAKER_30: It's the short version of this story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_20: Yeah. So, uh, so they're using facial recognition to find their enemies and kick them out of Knicks games. Got it. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03: So this started the, the kind of background here is that in late December, an independent journalist, sub-stack journalist, Ethan Strauss, who formerly wrote for ESPN and The Athletic,

Jason Calacanis: wrote this article about the facial recognition technology that was being used at the garden.

SPEAKER_03: And the background here is that as you well know, everybody hates James Dolan, the owner of the New York Knickerbockers, uh, for being bad at his job.

SPEAKER_39: And they, they yell like sell the team all the time. Have you ever, have you ever done this? Have you ever gone to a game and yelled sell the team? I like going to Knicks games, so I'm not going to say, because I'm scared of getting facial recognition.

SPEAKER_45: Um, I can confirm, um, I don't want to, I don't mean to genuflect here, but I don't want to lose my access to Madison Square Garden and go to the Knicks games.

SPEAKER_00: But I have heard individuals, I have heard individuals yell at James Dolan, as they yell at many owners when they don't win championships, um, to sell the team. It's New York. And New Yorkers are particularly verbose, uh, and they have colorful language, uh, as I confirm as a New Yorker and the garden is a place where people may engage in such colorful language.

SPEAKER_50: Yes, it can be very wrong.

SPEAKER_03: This is the chilling effect in real life, by the way. It really is. It really is. So, uh, Strauss in his article interviewed a fan who made a post on social media. It looks like Facebook to me. So James Dolan apparently is also in a band and he put up a Facebook post about the band JD and the straight shot. And this guy who's a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch commented, sell the team on the Facebook post, which I personally find hilarious.

Jason Calacanis: That is social media trolling at its finest. And he gave on the record quotes to this reporter and said that every time he's at the garden now, he gets questioned by security.

SPEAKER_03: And he's like, it's not an outright ban. Like they usually ask for my ID and my ticket. He said, they let me know that they're aware of who I am and my presence in the building and that they will be monitoring me. And they remind me of the code of contact conduct. And he said, sometimes it's like short, sometimes it goes on a while. And then this article, uh, Strauss found out Madison square gardens code for how it treats fans.

SPEAKER_00: From, oh, they have a numbering system for their enemies. Uh huh. This is where, you know, you've, I'm listening. There is a valid use. Somehow you stuff. It's a little intense. Um, there is a valid use. Um, I'm trying to be as, you know, charitable as possible here. If there were somebody who, uh, at the, at the, uh, Hawks series, uh, two years ago, somebody spit on Trey Young. Right. Um, who was in a courtside seat. It was absolutely horrific. And, you know, if that person was caught, uh, or somebody ran on the court, started to fight, whatever it is and use facial recognition to enforce a band to not have that person in the arena because they had been violent before. Yeah. That seems reasonable to me, but for writing a trolling comment, maybe not so much. Right. So it seems like if I'm getting this correct, that means they took his avatar, his profile image, and then uploaded it to a database and noted it.

SPEAKER_65: So somebody had to go to a comment section and say, get this person's photo, right? Mouse click, save it, upload it to the database and put this note in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_68: That's an awful lot of work, right? That's an awful lot of work. Like that is really personal as an amount of work.

SPEAKER_70: I'm kind of thinking maybe I should do that when I get back comments, uh, in the YouTube comments.

SPEAKER_71: Let's start like, why not? Apparently this is what you can do now.

SPEAKER_00: This is the future AR glasses. And then when you see somebody walking down the street, if they said some comment to you, you would have the for all history. I mean, I wanted that.

Jason Calacanis: I was super, like, I know that that was a massive privacy violation and it would have killed Google glass dead, but that's all I ever want it for. Like, I just want it to have a running feed.

SPEAKER_03: Know your trolls? Who this person is, you know, like my trolls or like their last couple of posts or what? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_75: Continue.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Seems like he's a number three. So the numbering system is a little all over the place because zero is like, you're dead. Do not admit. Okay. Banned.

SPEAKER_77: One is the only good code. One is for VIP. Okay. Number one. Spike Lee.

SPEAKER_39: Exactly. No matter what. Number two. Two. We know you're in the building all the time. We're watching. Like the Fockers. Three.

SPEAKER_03: Watching. A conversation with the person letting them know that we know.

SPEAKER_84: That they're in the building.

SPEAKER_03: So this is, sounds like what this financial advisor is on that do this.

SPEAKER_84: So level two, they know you're in the building, but they don't approach you. Level three.

SPEAKER_00: You're have a conversation with the person letting them know, Hey, we know you're in the building. We want to remind you of the code of conduct. So that could be maybe somebody used colorful language, you know, at the game. And they said, listen, last time you used a little colorful language. I'm trying to be charitable here. Like what would be the best use case here?

Jason Calacanis: But I mean, it's, you know, like, it's, it's all like logical, right? Until it's punishing your enemies. Right. And number four is a conversation letting them know that what they did is not tolerated and not accepted. This may, might mean that higher level security people approach you. Like we're really watching you, I think, or maybe they escort you out. I'm not really sure. Five though, is just a ban. Like as soon as, if you get near Madison Square Garden or Radio City, for example, Michael Rappaport is on this tier. Uh, the actor and comedian, he's always making like angry tick tocks and angry Instagram reels. I think a lot of them were sell the team related. Ah, maybe. So he's just out. As soon as he walks in the door. Really?

SPEAKER_00: Wow. They banned him for being critical. That's yeah. I guess that is a little bit of a chilling effect. A comedian can't make a joke. Okay. Okay.

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SPEAKER_97: So apparent. So anyway, so this long article comes out, right?

SPEAKER_03: And it details all of the ways that they're using this facial recognition system called OLA, Spanish for hello, to identify non-famous people that are on this conduct list. Okay. And that is creepy and weird. And then this is where the attorney general gets involved, which is that the, the AG's office is alleging that Madison Square Garden and Dolan are using this facial recognition technology. To, this is like amazing to forbid, I'm quoting from Letitia James's lawyer letter here to quote forbid all lawyers in all law firms. Lawyers. Representing clients engaged in any litigation against the company from entering its venues in New York, including the use of any season tickets.

SPEAKER_102: Okay. Now, hold on.

SPEAKER_103: Yeah. I'm in a lawsuit with Madison Square Garden. I hire a law firm.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. That one of the lawyers at that law firm represents me. So I don't know. I slipped and fell at a Knicks game. I twisted my ankle. I'm suing them because they didn't clean up the ice outside of Madison Square Garden. Whatever the case may be valid lawsuit, invalid lawsuit.

SPEAKER_65: Let's put that aside. Sure. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Hold down every single image. Somebody went to the website, right mouse clicked on the image, entered the person's name, entered their law firm into a facial recognition technology platform called Hola.

SPEAKER_110: Que pasa?

SPEAKER_113: Hola. Hola. Yep. Quite funny. It is. So they put them in Hola.

SPEAKER_00: And then when they come to the garden, you could be working in the patent department of this law firm, not the slipped on ice department. Yeah. And they tell you your season tickets are no longer available or you can't see the rockets or you can't come to the Christmas spectacular and they stop you at the door. Yeah. Even though you have not even be, cause I'm trying to think if, if you were involved in the litigation, what, is there a reason why you shouldn't be in the building? Like you could be collecting more information or something like that, but. Right. These are semi public spaces.

SPEAKER_72: Like these are available to the public. It's a private company, but. Right. This doesn't make a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_115: Can buy a ticket to go there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_102: The, the AG's office has reviewed reports alleging that they're engaging in this technology and that it affects approximately 90 law firms. 90 law firms.

SPEAKER_117: 90 law firms, not 90 lawyers, 90 law firms times the number of lawyers.

SPEAKER_03: Constituting thousands of lawyers. Wow. Trying to show up at the garden and are getting or, you know, radio city or whatever.

SPEAKER_59: Getting the lawyers like to go to games, by the way. Um, that's like a big thing.

SPEAKER_00: Law firms have tickets. It's kind of a thing. Yeah. Partners have tickets. They might buy boxes. Yeah. Yeah. That's like accounting firms, law firms, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Sherman Sterling, they all have boxes. And the chances that there's gonna be a lawsuit is like kind of a hundred percent, right? Like Madison Square Garden is a pretty big company. You got the Knicks, you got the Liberty, you got the Rangers, you got the Beacon, you got Radio City Music Hall.

SPEAKER_126: That's a, could be all kinds of, uh, lawsuits, uh, valid, invalid, whatever.

Jason Calacanis: And then, so to, so I asked this question of the producers before the show, just for people who are not familiar, Madison Square Garden itself is like, it's like a holding company that owns the venue, Radio City Music Hall, and then a portion of the Knicks. Yes. And that's how the, cause that's how the, like, I, I was like, wait, are James Dolan and Madison Square Garden, like colluding to, you know, target their enemies. No, he owns the garden. Yeah. Exactly. So it is a very, it is like arguably the most dystopian, maybe not the most, right? Rounding people up and killing them with facial recognition is the most, like the thing that they're doing to the Uyghurs is the most. But this is like pretty high on the list of, you know, wealthy people with thin skin controlling access to a literal venue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And just being like, no, sorry, you can't come in.

Jason Calacanis: So the, um, attorney general's office is saying, if you try to dissuade lawyers from taking cases, if you're trying to create this chilling effect, for example, that violates New York city civil rights law.

SPEAKER_137: Yes.

SPEAKER_84: And there's the evidence of that would be.

SPEAKER_00: That this is so wide every attorney at this place and every attorney going to every venue. It's not like there was an instance that happened at radio city specifically and that this attorney might be going there to collect intelligence or secretly record something. Like there's, I'm trying to think of how you would even justify one lawyer, not being able to come to some place.

SPEAKER_72: Like it's, it's, it's, yeah, where I fall on.

SPEAKER_00: This is I'm glad we live in a society where we can have an open discussion about this and then figure out like when somebody is overreaching with the technology. You know, people will investigate or take action or speak up. So I think this is a sign of a high functioning society, a tool comes out. It has valid uses for technology. You know, you could have somebody who's a danger to the places person has spit on a player before you don't want them in the building. They, you know, so that's valid. And, you know, then somebody abuses it and then they get caught.

SPEAKER_142: And then you, you get the attorney general knocking on your door. And it also is just terrible PR. I mean, it's unbelievably bad PR. It's unbelievably bad PR.

SPEAKER_03: I mean, really, because at the end of the day, like the lawsuits aren't going to take you down, but nobody buying tickets to anything. Ever again, Mike, like that seems sort of bad.

SPEAKER_148: The Knicks.

SPEAKER_146: Congratulations.

SPEAKER_148: So team win season. People still went. True. True.

SPEAKER_144: Yeah. They're like, I don't do anything wrong.

Jason Calacanis: Right. I mean, congratulations to Ethan Strauss, by the way, for some amazing journalism. Like it's very possible that this would not have been picked up.

SPEAKER_151: It makes you wonder how else this is being abused.

SPEAKER_119: Yeah. Right. Right. What's the real next thing they could do? Like what, what are they doing that we don't know? So that's where I think you really have to investigate this.

SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're recording people. Like they have that technology to put a microphone directly on somebody. So what if like you're at the garden and you're Michael Rappaport and like, they point one of those stick microphones at you because they know what seat you're in. And they just record your whole conversation while you're there. Like what kinds of really mischievous things here? Um, they, you know, you're in a public, uh, basically you're consenting to be filmed. So they could be, uh, doing all kinds of interesting things with your likeness and image.

SPEAKER_142: Um, and then they could be tracking people just to know that like this person's been to the garden so many times because now I have on my cameras and my home security systems.

SPEAKER_00: Uh, nest will tell you, Hey, this person, you recognize his face. I'm like, yeah, that's me. And then I put the name on it. And then it keeps showing you images as people come to your house. Like that's the gardener. Yes. This is the, uh, you know, cleaning person. Yes. This is my wife. This is my daughter. And you give each person a name. And then it's like unknown person is at the front door. Unknown person is at the back door and the person's on the side.

SPEAKER_72: So you're getting these things, this or known person, this person's at the front door. This person's at the back door. Um, right. Right. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_155: Yeah.

SPEAKER_159: I mean, and this is where could, uh, yeah. You're gonna say it. You're gonna read that.

SPEAKER_162: Well, I don't, I mean, Nick might be trying to trick you. This is a pro James Dolan podcast.

SPEAKER_163: It's a pro James Dolan podcast here. We love you, James Dolan, but. Careful.

SPEAKER_84: But I, I do think we could redeploy this energy into the Knicks, uh, you know, drafting, continuing to draft great players and develop our talent.

SPEAKER_167: I'll leave it at that. Less time on the surveillance network, more time on, uh, prospecting great and developing great talent like we've been doing.

SPEAKER_169: Exactly. Less spying, more trying.

Jason Calacanis: Um, let's, let's just, let's back away from this minefield real quick. Shall we? And talk about the creator copy for a minute. I mean, how ridiculous it would be if I were even talking about this got banned.

SPEAKER_167: I mean, that would be kind of like next level. Right.

SPEAKER_174: It would actually be kind of amazing. It would be amazing for you. It would be a pretty great flex.

David Friedberg: Yeah. Like I'd have to get like a mustache and like a giant mustache.

SPEAKER_179: And if a security guard comes up to you, just ask them, Hey, what level am I, by the way? Am I two? Am I three?

Jason Calacanis: Exactly. Totally. Just be like, where am I on the chart? Yeah. I mean, this is all the stuff though. You know, when clear AI, is that what they were called clear view or whatever, the one that was just coming out and just hoovering up all the Facebook faces and Facebook itself was doing facial recognition, right? Like you had all these. It's funny because you always have all these privacy advocates who are like, I get it. Like, we're like, everybody's really annoying. It's really annoying when everybody's just like, this could be horribly misused. You should not be doing this. There need to be rules. There have to be guardrails or whatever. And everybody's like, what's the harm? Like nothing's happening. And then pretty soon you find out. Oh, they're just literally throwing thousands of lawyers out of Madison Square Garden.

SPEAKER_03: And that's like, that's like the stuff we know. That's pretty benign.

SPEAKER_45: All things considered like lawyers at a game might be better.

SPEAKER_00: I don't know. They're the worst. The other thing they could do is they could connect you to your social media accounts really quick. So that would be very interesting. They could scan the entire audience and then just say, give us every single person's Instagram account, put that into an ad by and say, these are all the people who were at the garden.

SPEAKER_119: These are all the social media handles. Let's do advertising against them. I mean, that's already happening. They might be doing that.

SPEAKER_26: And we don't know. They are doing that.

SPEAKER_03: You think so? They're taking with this little location device that's constantly on you all the time.

SPEAKER_189: Well, there's that, but they could also do it by facial recognition. If I see the, you know, we took a picture at the Warriors game during the playoffs.

SPEAKER_142: They could take that picture. And then, you know, just start advertising towards us or whatever.

SPEAKER_126: It's really interesting. Like what we could be opting into here.

SPEAKER_190: We live in the future, whether we want to or not.

SPEAKER_126: Exactly.

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SPEAKER_193: and up to 50% off in the years after that.

SPEAKER_22: All right, let's talk quickly about the creator economy.

SPEAKER_03: Just a really interesting story about because we've talked about when BuzzFeed, for example, might go up on the block. Well, it seems like they have a nice little revenue stream from Meta, according to Wall Street Journal sources who say that Meta pays BuzzFeed millions of dollars a year to quote, bring more creators to its platforms.

Jason Calacanis: Yeah. Yeah. So since BuzzFeed went public via SPAC in 2021, as we know, their stock has plummeted nearly 80%. It's actually up 119% today on this news.

SPEAKER_03: From a dollar to dollars. Yeah, pretty much. But it's, you know, like, yeah, we were making money. Um, evidently there has been this program. BuzzFeed relies heavily on Facebook as a source of traffic to their platform. The journal reported that in its most recent earnings report, BuzzFeed attributed the declining time users spent on its sites in part to declining traffic from Facebook users. TikTok course has been growing wildly. And so they reportedly have a steel valued at $10 million in which BuzzFeed will create content for platforms like Facebook and Instagram train creators to grow their online presence. And I guess somehow drive those users then back to BuzzFeed in some way.

SPEAKER_143: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I know Facebook was paying a lot of publications money, uh, to do things. So the New York times was a recipient as well of, um, some money.

SPEAKER_142: And I don't know if that's for licensing content. Um, but there were some splashy cash deals going around where Facebook was trying, but I think they stopped doing those. Um, and clearly Facebook has to figure out, um, how to share money with, uh, creators. The, the only website that's really ever done that at scale in a meaningful way is YouTube. But Mr. Beast and, you know, the, the kid who plays video games over there, uh, I forgot his name, but people make a decent living on 55% of the ad revenue split on YouTube. Um, and people make money, you know, having a patron or, or, you know, a subscription service, but very rarely does anything else ever pay off. So you have to basically go off platform to make your money. Right. That's generally how people do it.

SPEAKER_03: And I think what Meta missed, like, this is, this was completely a, uh, like a Zuckerberg miss from a business perspective.

Jason Calacanis: They never took creators very seriously. So like creators would get famous, would appear on Instagram, but there was never any rev share.

SPEAKER_03: There wasn't this nurturing, like YouTube understood early that, yeah, we're going to share some revenue with creators, but the trade-off is going to be the billions of views that we get because people will come here to see them. Whereas it took Instagram and Facebook forever, I think to realize the value of creators in that way. So they never shared revenue with them.

Jason Calacanis: They didn't build studios like Facebook did. They didn't have a program. So you'd get big on Instagram and then you would just have to rely on like merch to try to turn that into a living. And so they're finding that increasingly creators are like, okay, well, I'm going to tick tock.

SPEAKER_137: Yeah, I'm going, or I'm going to YouTube, but more and more now you've got eyeballs and creators going to tick tock. So it's a double whammy for Meta.

SPEAKER_142: I think you're right. They never really appreciated the creator class. If you look at what YouTube did, you know, a decade ago, they were investing in spaces for people to film stuff. They were trying to get people to do collaborations. They really, really worked on a playbook and they published their playbook. I think it's at youtube.com slash playbook of like, here's how to grow your audience. They sent people black. So if you ever watch a YouTube or they'll have plaques on their walls behind them, you know, a hundred thousand subscribers, a million subscribers, whatever it is. So they really, really invested in appreciating them and saying, Hey, the reason the platform is here. And the reason we do all this is for you. And I think Facebook just never really thought about the creators, appreciated them. And now it's might be too late.

SPEAKER_216: It's not in their DNA to share revenue or to care about other people, to say it bluntly.

SPEAKER_84: It's true. No, it's totally true. You know, they're, they're mercenaries. And I think, you know, they're, they're so mercenary that I think creators realize it.

SPEAKER_00: Uh, but then on tick tock, I think, you know, it's very hard to make money there too.

SPEAKER_142: So people, there are reports that people are not making money off tick tock. So you have to go off tick tock. You gotta figure out how to do some kind of brand deal off of tick tock. That gets you, uh, you know, some kind of big win.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. It's interesting because tick tock, despite being the place that all the creators go and the place that all the eyeballs are also has been a bit slow to create an ad sharing or a revenue sharing deal for creators. And now, uh, you know, they, they've sort of turned that on, but according to fortune, there

Jason Calacanis: was a fortune story earlier this week that said like tick tock is making $11 billion in ad revenue.

SPEAKER_03: And, you know, creators are making like a dollar. I think this woman's there's one creator.

SPEAKER_224: Hank Green says she's making. Yeah.

SPEAKER_225: Yeah. Oh, what did Hank Green say?

SPEAKER_224: No, it's Hank Green.

SPEAKER_142: He said he's making 2.3 cents per thousand views. So on a CPM basis is incredibly low. I think CPM is over at YouTube, low single digit three, four, five net to the creator.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Um, and, uh, some brand deal might pay 10 or 20 or something. So, um, yeah, this is right.

SPEAKER_227: And the lady, the like kind of dog kennel creator who said that she made a dollar 85 at

SPEAKER_08: tick tock said she made 75,000 from Facebook videos. Okay.

SPEAKER_229: Um, there's also this report. Should we be doing more Facebook videos?

SPEAKER_231: Like, well, I mean, it, I, I, there's also $5,000. I'm sorry. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00: I thought something weird happened. Um, I, there's also this heat button. Did you hear about this? That the, uh, tick tock can press a button, the employees there and they just press, like put heat on this and they basically can pick which videos to make go viral. In other words, to just expose them to a lot of people. So they're picking winners basically, which makes total sense. Like this looks like an interesting video. Let's spread it. Right. Not just because it got signal, but I think this is interesting. This is a high profile creator. So if a celebrity comes over, what they'll do is they'll goose it so that they'll be like, Oh my God, I got a million views. I should do more of these. So they're basically putting their thumb on the scale for certain folks, which then of course unlocks the, uh, issue. If you're paying attention that, gee, I guess the CCP could do this too. So if somebody was critical of, I don't know, a candidate who was, you know, had an anti China stance, they could be like, Hmm, maybe, or somebody was critical or pro China. They could just press a button and make them trend. Right. So this is where I think people have to start understanding exactly how this could shape people's perception of the world. Right. And they, and they already have the button to do it. So if they have the button to do it, do you really think they're not doing it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_236: Right.

SPEAKER_235: I mean, they're definitely doing it.

Jason Calacanis: They're doing it. I mean, this is, this is literally the Madison square garden story at a billion times scale. Precisely.

SPEAKER_119: If, if, if, if a tool can be abused, if there are people who will abuse the tool, there are the majority of people who are good people who will be like, I wouldn't abuse that. Yeah. No, we have, we have that here for security reasons. We're not trying to kick out people.

SPEAKER_142: This is just, you know, for people who are violent sociopaths, not just attorneys.

Jason Calacanis: Uh, I mean, this is where that, the conversation between, you know, platform and publisher has been fraught and ongoing for, I don't know, 15 years now and is nowhere near settled. But these are the kinds of things that, that muddy those waters dramatically. It's like, well, okay, you're on one level, you're just a platform, but you're really not just a dumb pipe. You're promoting this, stopping promoting this. Yeah. We were actually having this conversation in our social, like we have a, a Slack channel for where our social clips are posted. And we were saying like, oh, it's so weird on Tik Tok, how something will, you know, for us go really viral, have 400,000 views or 800,000 views or whatever. And then all of a sudden just stop. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_246: Like no more. And it's like, so did you turn off the eyeballs?

SPEAKER_248: Could be somebody hit the heat button, like, Hey, press the heat button. Yeah. Um, and just let it run hot, but it, it decays, right?

SPEAKER_00: Let it run hot for five days or whatever. Maybe they press it twice. And that's two days, press it three times to three days. Who knows how their button works? I'd love to see it. Um, here's the source from Forbes sources told Forbes that Tik Tok has often used heating.

SPEAKER_20: Is the term they're using to court influencers and brands enticing them into partnerships by inflating their videos. View counts. View counts.

SPEAKER_00: This suggests that heating has potentially benefited some influencers and brands. Those were with whom Tik Tok has sought business relationships at the expense of others whom it has not. So it's unfair that some people got heated. I also, it sounds like they're saying that maybe the view counts weren't real, which I wonder if the view counts are even real. I mean, the Chinese government is notorious for lying about data and information. So, I mean, they can just press the button and tell you it's 400,000 or 800,000. And who knows if it's real, because then if you look at the clicks you get, you know, from your profile page, it doesn't seem like anybody clicks on links. There are very few traffic, little traffic leaving Tik Tok.

SPEAKER_142: So I wonder if Tik Tok is even worth the time, you know? Um, I mean, we're experimenting with it, but we'll see the view counts. I don't buy them.

SPEAKER_250: I don't know if they're real or not. Me neither.

Jason Calacanis: Although I do know, uh, that the dirty little secret, I think of all social is that there's the engagement is like 80%. Teeny tiny fraction of the views. Oh, and always has been like, I think I got, you know, and, and, and that you can be so artificially famous on one of these platforms and it can result in no new audience or like a teeny number of people, you know, coming to, what was it?

SPEAKER_39: Google plus. Was that the Google social network for like a minute? Yeah. So many followers on there. So many. On both of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Yes. People would come and be like, oh, well, we noticed you have, you know, 750,000 followers on Google plus. Like, would you like to write a column for us?

Jason Calacanis: Or, and I, I literally, I told some people, I was like, Hey, um, no one is gonna. Yeah. Uh, no, no one's gonna click on that. Sorry. It's not, this is like, this is 749,000 Indian men asking me to marry them. And maybe like a thousand. That was my experience on Google plus. It was weird.

SPEAKER_142: You, you did have people who were using it to spam or to get links and try to do page rank SEO stuff with it.

SPEAKER_00: Right. So if it's a very easy way to test this is you just say, Hey, um, anybody see this hit reply. And, you know, you have 10 people reply out of 750,000, you kind of know it's not being exposed. And that's the other trick of all these social networks is you build up this huge follower account. And then they're like, you know what? We're not going to show it to your follower account unless you pay to reach them again.

SPEAKER_142: And you're like, well, what's the point of that? This is where I think, you know, converting people into email addresses, starting a sub stack or a MailChimp or whatever lists are you, you choose to use. Or, you know, and just collecting emails over time, an email is worth like a hundred followers, maybe a thousand followers.

SPEAKER_216: So when you look at your, if you have a hundred thousand followers on Twitter, I think a thousand, uh, would be a thousand emails would be more valuable.

SPEAKER_22: I think so. My son and I have this identical conversation in the car.

SPEAKER_03: He was saying that, uh, one of his favorite YouTubers did a video about unpopular opinions on Reddit. I mean, they're so genius, right?

Jason Calacanis: They generate like 5 million views by reading Reddit posts and then talking about them. But one of the unpopular opinions on Reddit was YouTubers complain too much for the job that they have.

SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, well, that's an interesting point because on the one hand, it is way harder than you think, right? These people, people who are doing this professionally are running a business. They have to be posting every day. There are no holidays, like many, sometimes multiple times a day. It's exhausting. Everybody yells at you. They're, you know, terrible. It's a stressful job. And also some of them seem to have forgotten that their entire career is a hundred percent dependent on the platform. And so complain all you want, but YouTube can change the rules. Any day of the week.

SPEAKER_20: You have to, if you use these platforms, you should assume they're going to change the rules and you should be siphoning off as many direct relationships as you can and building your brand brand across many different platforms.

SPEAKER_142: Knowing that some mix will build your core audience and you'll have their emails or their phone numbers and be able to text them whatever service you use to directly connect. And that, and that's really the goal over time is to build a direct relationship with folks. Um, all right, listen, a lot going on in the world and creators.

SPEAKER_275: It's a, it's a, it's a tough business. It's a tough business.

SPEAKER_57: And we're still out here supporting our founders. We got a, an accelerator founder interview coming up.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, great. Yep. Um, our 26 cohort Nebsha is the founder of breath hub. Oh yeah.

Jason Calacanis: Another company. This is so interesting. It's an awesome, uh, consumer subscription company, personalized breath work that does breath analysis and all of this stuff that can really like heal your body based on breathing.

SPEAKER_03: Also, if you talk to the founder of a breath company, all you think about is your own breathing. I'm just into, I just was like, am I doing it right?

SPEAKER_280: Yeah. Am I breathing at all? You'll learn a lot. Okay.

SPEAKER_49: Probably the most common challenge I hear from founders is related to building. Either they aren't technical and they're searching for a technical co-founder or they can code, but they're spread way too thin. This is one of the first obstacles you're going to face as a founder. And it can be discouraging. Of course. Well, here's a great solution. Do you have a great idea, but you don't have a technical co-founder yet? Boom. Crowdbotics is your CTO as a service. This means you can focus on building an awesome product and delighting your customers rather than planning best practices and architecture. Crowdbotics also offers professional scoping to help you flesh out your project at the MVP stage and beyond. Yeah. And listen, if you are a founder and you are under resourced, you don't need to get into the weeds of all this. You can figure out what do your customers want. You can build the spec and then have Crowdbotics architect it all for you. So stop with the hassle and get back to building the perfect product. So here's a very easy call to action. Let the folks at Crowdbotics show you how this all works. You can schedule a free scoping session and get your detailed build plan at crowdbotics.com slash twist. That's crowd, B-O-T-I-C-S dot com slash twist.

SPEAKER_03: All right, everybody, I'm back interviewing founders from the Launch Accelerators 26th cohort.

SPEAKER_11: Today, we have Nevsha, the founder of Breath Hub. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for inviting me, Molly. I'm going to let you in your own words and I think a little bit of your own demo. Tell us what Breath Hub does.

SPEAKER_288: Yeah, sure. As Breath Hub, we're helping people breathe better and live better. And our app is the world's first and only breathwork app that is fully personalized. And we have a system called Breath Analysis. We ask people some simple questions that are backed by behavioral health sciences. And with those simple questions, we understand how people are breathing. We understand a lot about their breathing habits and there's an algorithm at the back end working. And then we create a unique journey for them, a unique breathing journey so that they can heal any dysfunctional breathing habits they have. They go on a journey, for example, a 71 day journey.

SPEAKER_290: And then our teachers lead them, guide them into certain sessions.

SPEAKER_288: People can go also around the app, try between 800 sessions and courses and according to their needs, they can use breathwork to change the body fluid chemistry and also their physiology to boost their energy, improve their focus and heal migraine or headaches.

SPEAKER_290: And they can also connect with teachers and reserve one to one sessions.

SPEAKER_11: So talk to me about the science behind this. Like how did you get into this and what are the benefits? And I think more importantly, how is it different from meditation, for example?

SPEAKER_293: Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_290: I'm a global authority in breathing sciences field with 20 years of expertise. And I have been doing research around basically breathing habits. My background is behavioral health sciences, and we've been working on people's different breathing habits for a long time with the breathing sciences faculty and breath coaching federation. What we're offering to people is very different from meditation and also very different than any kind of breathwork.

SPEAKER_294: Because each person is breathing differently and our breathing habits are unique. It depends on how much we exercise, how we are eating, our daily activities, our environment and not all of us have healthy breathing habits.

SPEAKER_290: And there are over 200 well-known, scientifically well-known symptoms of dysfunctional breathing habits like chronic pain, stress, attention deficit problems, headaches, anxiety, asthma, sleep, apnea, depression, chronic fatigue.

SPEAKER_294: And these symptoms are actually well-known respiratory symptoms. And these symptoms occur when people breathe wrong during the day. So what we do is we analyze their breathing habits by asking them simple questions and lead them into customized journeys so that they can change their unique breathing habits that is at the root of most of their problems. So we help basically people to reach to optimal health and performance. So breathwork in our app is offering people more physical health than, of course, mental health is also part of it, but first physical health. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11: I'm so conscious, by the way, of my breathing while we're talking, which I would imagine people tell you all the time, like, I'm like, am I just sitting here doing it wrong? Was I doing it well before and then now I screwed it up? How do then the app experience itself? You mentioned that there are kind of guided breathing exercises already built in with specific purposes attached to them. And then there are also coaches. Yes.

SPEAKER_294: Yeah. People also can connect with the coaches. They can get some support from the coaches.

SPEAKER_290: And we also work with physiotherapists and psychotherapists, and they lead their clients into certain sessions. They create lists in the app for their clients. For example, if you have neck pain, because you can heal your neck pain faster with breathing exercises. Physiotherapists have been working with breathwork for a long time. So they they suggest some sessions, they suggest some techniques. You can find all of those in breath up or, for example, you're working with a psychotherapist.

SPEAKER_294: They suggest some sessions for you. They can also track your breathing journey with the app. So we work hand in hand with physiotherapists, psychotherapists, fitness coaches, fitness trainers. And also we started working hand in hand with nutritionists.

SPEAKER_299: Is this something that people know about? Like when you're talking about customer acquisition, is there both the usual customer acquisition challenge,

SPEAKER_22: but also an educational kind of aspect to this that has to go into it?

SPEAKER_294: We have a huge responsibility on educating people, especially on the fact that if you go on a personalized journey, personalized breathwork journey, you get the best results because not every breathing technique works for everyone. And there are a lot of breathwork apps being launched every day, but not every breathing technique works for everyone. So a breathing technique that is maybe relaxing you at one point may actually be causing a dysfunctional breathing habit. And now you might have neck pain just because you're practicing that technique. So I think it's very important to analyze breathing habits. And what we have realized is that people are not interested in learning about the techniques and methods. They are more interested in solving their problems. So it has been easy for us to, you know, market ourselves just by talking about, you know, which symptoms we can heal,

SPEAKER_290: which symptoms our app can heal or with which problems our app can help with.

SPEAKER_294: And because we are getting solutions, like we're getting results. I think that has been our, like, that's our superpower because we are getting results. Right.

SPEAKER_11: Targeting outcomes as opposed to education. Yeah. Totally. Um, we are efficiency minded humans after all. What?

SPEAKER_303: Tell me how you make money. Subscription.

SPEAKER_294: We are a SaaS company and we have monthly and annual plan. We have been trying a three month plan, but that didn't work as we, you know, thought of. And now we're also building a premium video platform, which is being released just this month, this month and in a week, which is offering certification programs and breathwork courses and different courses, visual video courses. And that's another revenue model we have.

SPEAKER_11: And are you primarily B2C or also B2C?

SPEAKER_294: We also have, yeah, we're primarily B2C. We have over 8,000 customers, over 8,500 customers. We are also offering B2B packages and we have been signing contracts with corporates. We also work, started working with some insurance companies, kind of like a trial. And I think we'll get the best results with insurance companies because preventive health is very important for insurance companies. And they have been understanding the importance of adopting regular breathwork and breathing because it's just basic natural way. It's the most powerful natural way that can help us stay healthy and well.

SPEAKER_11: And then how do the B2B contracts, is it something where breath hub would end up being part of a prescription or a package of wellness recommendations from a doctor, for example?

SPEAKER_294: Yeah, we have been, I mean, we've been doing many different things. For example, we signed a contract with one of the biggest hospitals in Turkey and a private hospital. And they included us into their pregnancy packages because, you know, pregnant woman during pregnancy and also during birth, they need the breathing techniques and learning breath work is very important. And then we have an agreement, for example, with Vodafone. We are in there on their platform. They're offering breath hub as a wellness product to their customers, which we will be charging, of course, more or less than our usual price. And Vodafone will pay, will be paying us for every purchase. And then we have another model where, you know, a large enterprise is offering it to their kind of like they have a club of their employees. They have over 200,000 people in that club, employees and families, and they are offering discounted breath up packages. So we've been trying different models and we are not only giving subscriptions because my background is being an expert and teacher and I am very much focused on getting results and helping people.

SPEAKER_290: So we're not just offering subscriptions.

SPEAKER_294: We're also offering alongside with the subscriptions when we work with companies, we're also offering webinars, workshops every 15 days to, you know, keep talking about the importance of breath work and answer questions and help anyone who's using breath hub to get better results. I think that's kind of like that human touch has been very, yeah, very effective in our journey.

SPEAKER_11: Yeah. And then, of course, the thing that we're always asking our accelerator companies in the accelerator and on these interviews is what is your path to 10 million and a hundred million dollars?

SPEAKER_288: Yeah.

SPEAKER_294: So 10 million and a hundred million, I believe we can get to 10 million in the next two years with around 78 million in B2C and around a million, a million and a half built B2B and with breath hub academy, a million, a million and a half as well. Yeah. And that's the way to grow. We're also creating a marketplace because that has been the demand where people could, you know, go on doing one to one sessions. That's kind of like the new trend, you know, doing live sessions together also through the platform. Our business model has been working great with minimum marketing budgets. And I believe from now on with the next fundraise, we are going to be growing much faster.

SPEAKER_11: Amazing. You can find a breath hub at breath hub dot app, or I would assume the Google play store or the apple store. Apple store. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Navsha. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_309: Thank you.

SPEAKER_310: Congratulations on what you've built. Thank you. All right. Up next producer, Rachel is back with another edition of okay. Boomer. And this week she is in the generative AI space.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Aren't we all. Aren't we all. She is talking to Brett Bauman, who is a developer who's created an AI playlist maker called playlist AI, which is actually kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_13: It lets you create a playlist with a single prompt. Like it's really sunny outside, but it's freezing and the wind is blowing. So it's not all the way to like party music, but like something upbeat. Interesting.

SPEAKER_142: And then that it'll, um, generate a playlist and then. Yeah. This is like, we're going to be having our minds read over time. Uh, it's just going to know what we want better than we know. Uh, so very cool. Just give me the chip.

SPEAKER_72: We'll even generate a playlist from a picture of a concert poster or something. So that's kind of cool. So cute. Yeah. Just take a picture and we'll give you a playlist.

SPEAKER_318: Very cool. Just chip me. Just chip me already.

SPEAKER_275: I'm ready.

SPEAKER_320: All right.

SPEAKER_321: Okay. I'm a senior iOS engineer at loom, but I'm talking to you today because I found playlist AI, which you made. I think it's so cool. I found this on Twitter. And what really caught my eye is you're able to use opening eyes. GPT three to create playlists off a bunch of different things. One of, one of which being songs in TikToks. And I thought this was so cool because a lot of different songs that I like just come from little bites that I listened to when I'm scrolling. I was like, this is insane. Love this idea. Knew I had to have you on. So again, thank you so much for joining.

SPEAKER_324: Yeah. Rachel, thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_325: So first things first, how did you get this idea? I want to know about like the actual origin stories of playlist AI.

SPEAKER_327: Yeah. So like you said, there's a few different ways to make a playlist. And the one that was the original way was through an image. So I was going to a music festival and I wanted to, you know, a playlist of the lineup like a lot of people do, but I couldn't really find a way to, to do that automatically. There's no like service for doing that. So I kind of worked backwards from that thought about taking a picture of the music festival poster and making a playlist of it from that. And that was the first release of the app. It was originally called something different. And I, since then tried to make an app that is kind of just like the ultimate playlist making app. And it was just like added on different features over time. Like the video one you mentioned and, and some other things. So cool.

SPEAKER_321: And what was the concert or a festival that you were at that really inspired you?

SPEAKER_327: Yeah.

SPEAKER_331: I was going to Portola in San Francisco. I think it was the first year they've done it, but it was a, it was a cool festival for sure.

SPEAKER_332: Okay. Very awesome.

SPEAKER_321: And I found you on Twitter after, um, seeing like, I think it was like your first tweet where you were testing a beta possibly, um, which was really, really cool. Where are people like really finding out about playlist AI using social media to like really share, share the platform or is there like other partnerships you're doing? I'd say mostly social.

SPEAKER_327: Yeah. I mean, I've been sharing on Twitter kind of just like, as I release new things, it's kind of like each way to make a playlist is its own little mini app inside the bigger app. Um, and kind of sharing my, my journey as I build it. Um, as well as recently, some like, uh, more traditional press, I guess you could say like tech crunch and fast company and stuff have, have picked it up. So that's been pretty cool as well.

SPEAKER_321: I could totally see you like partnering with, I know there's like a venue, for example, like in the Lower East side of Manhattan, it's called mercury lounge and a bunch of different types of like musicians come and perform there. Um, one of my friends performed there, which was really cool. Her name is Ashley Kutcher. So shout out to Ashley, but it would be so cool to like create a playlist. Um, like by partnering with the venue and be like, okay, if you're going to like multiple different like artists, you can curate a playlist like based on that. So super excited to see where you guys go in the future. Making a playlist off an image is very, very cool.

SPEAKER_343: And how did you, um, I guess like, what was the first step into the process of making this?

SPEAKER_327: You know, I really didn't know if it would work or it'd be possible. So kind of just like figure out what pieces I have that I can connect together and test things out. And then, you know, walk down the street and find music festival posters to take a picture of.

SPEAKER_332: Okay. Okay. And what, what are people mostly using this for?

SPEAKER_321: Like, have you seen more people use that, that image prompt, um, generator, or do you think more people are using videos or I know that one feature rewind is pretty cool. Um, which is where you make playlists on top of like other artists and tracks like that Spotify

SPEAKER_348: rap does. Right.

SPEAKER_349: Yeah. The most popular, most used one is the, um, like AI prompt.

SPEAKER_327: So kind of like Dolly, but for playlists, you could say, you just type in what you want and it, um, goes from there. So, you know, whether you say like a playlist for running or working out or whatever. That's super odd.

SPEAKER_321: I want somebody to make this for movies. Um, I'm sure chat GPT could probably do that. But I'd like it to be even more curated once a week. We have lawn join this week in startups and lawn has the best movie recommendations, the best movie reviews. But unfortunately I have horrible taste in movies, TV shows, probably music too. But I love things that are just so below lawns level of like critique. Like I love rewatching gossip girl and things like that. So it'd be cool if I could not ask lawn those questions and like go straight to chat GPT. Um, so definitely think this is really cool seeing this in the music, music sector. And if anybody's making this for like movies, TV, things like that, also interested. And where do you see a playlist AI going? Like, are you guys working on you guys saying that there are multiple people? You're the solo creator, right?

SPEAKER_353: Of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_326: Yeah.

SPEAKER_353: It's just me. Where do you see this going?

SPEAKER_326: Yeah.

SPEAKER_327: I think, um, you know, expanding into other things other than other than music would be really cool. Whether it's like movies or podcasts for me, for me right now, I'm pretty focused on the music part of it. Um, I think that there are like sort of two things to do. One is like improve that AI text feature because it's the, uh, or like prompt, I guess you could say text prompt because it's the most popular one. I think that there are some like natural things to do, like following how other AI tools are expanding, whether it's like chat GPT. So you can imagine, you know, having that playlist creation be more conversational or even say, Hey, like I have this existing playlist and I want you to make it more poppy or remove like some of these parts of it. Um, but as also, I have a ton of other ideas that are completely unrelated to the AI prompt thing, whether it's like, um, selecting some genres and then, you know, narrowing down, um, the more musical details like acousticness or BPM or, um, I had this weird thing I've been thinking about where you could kind of like swipe on artists sort of, uh, like Tinder style and, uh, dating app style and build a place that way. So just random things like that, uh, that I'm really interested in.

SPEAKER_355: So do you have a background in music?

SPEAKER_327: No, not really. Okay. Uh, just as a background in, in, in making apps, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_332: What other apps have you made, um, before playlist AI?

SPEAKER_327: Um, I made a few in college that aren't really on the app store anymore. Um, there was one back when like Pokemon go came out. That was, uh, sort of like finding Pokemon on a map type thing. And, um, had this website in college called intern supply that I worked on with some friends. That was for computer science students to find internships.

SPEAKER_334: Why do you decide that, um, making apps was something that you're passionate about? Like, do you have a good story about how you got into the space?

SPEAKER_327: Um, I mean, uh, I kind of stumbled into it just through another friend in college who was making an app. And I thought it was crazy that like, we were able to, able to do that. You know, uh, I didn't know how to like code before going to college or anything like that. And kind of just like grew up with an iPhone, you know? So it's pretty cool to be able to add stuff to it.

SPEAKER_321: Yeah. That's definitely makes sense. And what were you, um, studying in college? You mentioned computer science. Is that what you, it was your major? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_327: I went to, uh, Arizona state. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_321: Cool. I went to Penn state. So another very fun school. Um, do you currently still live in Arizona?

SPEAKER_367: No, I moved to Seattle around five years ago. Uh, and so I've been, been here in Seattle since.

SPEAKER_321: Do you think by going to a school like Arizona and maybe living, um, in a place that wasn't so tech oriented, I know Seattle, there's a bunch of HQs there. Do you think that's impacted you at all as somebody in tech?

SPEAKER_370: For sure.

SPEAKER_327: Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, I'm, I'm sure that like a career fair at Arizona state's computer science program is very different than like a top tier computer science program. And, uh, I don't know, I haven't ever really let that kind of like get to me or anything. It's, uh, I think what's cool about tech or I guess you could call it is that if you just build cool things like people will, will show up.

SPEAKER_372: So, uh, that's kind of what I've always done.

SPEAKER_321: Why did you choose computer science? You said you never coded before even going into college. That seems like a pretty, a pretty big job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_372: Great question.

SPEAKER_327: I kind of just was winging it to be honest and found something ended up like finding something I really like. I think, um, I got lucky, I guess.

SPEAKER_375: I feel like that's like everybody's story.

SPEAKER_321: It's always like, yeah, I stumbled in area. I like accidentally found it, um, in the future. I know you're, like I said, to intro your senior iOS engineer. Do you think that you see yourself going down like an entrepreneurial path?

SPEAKER_344: You never know, you know, it's, uh, I, the app has kind of blown up in the last week or so.

SPEAKER_327: Um, I guess recording this like around 10 days after launching the AI prompt feature, which has gotten a lot of attention. And I've had like, uh, like over 10,000 downloads since then. Wow.

SPEAKER_377: And a ton of playlists are getting created. So kind of just taking it one day at a time, you know, uh, we'll see. Awesome.

SPEAKER_321: And for is first, I guess is, is this monetized? Like that's a lot of people downloading it. Like, are you making any money from it?

SPEAKER_327: Yeah. Yeah. So I posted a bit on Twitter about that. I try to just kind of keep it public. Cause I feel like a lot of people are, but as I was making the app and wanting to monetize it, I reached out to a lot of people who are really helpful. Like some people were really open to just sharing, you know, what their app makes or even like the like value of their customers at, at different price points and stuff like that to help me decide what to do. But right now, uh, it is $2.99 a month or $19.99 a year to create playlists. You get a few for free when you download the app. And so far there's been like $2,000 in sales and around a thousand of that is monthly recurring revenue.

SPEAKER_366: That's very awesome. So congratulations on that. And I'm going to pull a 180 here.

SPEAKER_321: Cause I saw on Twitter, um, again, I saw that you tweeted about monetization. That's why I asked. And I saw another tweet that I thought was kind of funny, um, that you tweeted earlier this month and it was January is the month of launching newsletters. Do you have a newsletter? What was the tweet about? Let's hear it. Cause obviously you're somebody that's pretty knowledgeable on AI. I'd be interested in hearing your takes.

SPEAKER_327: I just feel like, I don't know if you've, if you've seen it, it could be my own like Twitter bubble, you know, but ever since the new year, I feel like all I see is different AI newsletters on, on Twitter. And I don't know where they came from, but it seems like everyone, uh, just like, maybe I just found them, but. It seems like they all started in January. I don't personally have like a, like a regular newsletter. I have one, like a sub stack for the app, but it's not like a weekly newsletter or anything. And definitely no, no shame to anyone doing an AI newsletter. Cause they were all really helpful to me and sharing my app. But, um, yeah, that's, that's what that was about. I was getting excited there.

SPEAKER_321: I was jumping with the gun. So if you're not writing the AI newsletters, which ones do you recommend subscribing to?

SPEAKER_366: And I know you're, you've mentioned it quite a few. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_327: Uh, I think, um, I don't want to say anyone's name wrong, but Ben Tussle, Tussle has a one called Ben's bites. It's a very popular one. Maybe a more underrated one that less people would know about is called the market bite. That one is by my friend, uh, Andrew Gardner. And yeah, that's, that's what comes to mind.

SPEAKER_321: I actually just subscribed to the first one that you mentioned. Um, the bites one, and it has like a really interesting format. I definitely recommend that as well. It has like numbered different stories, right? Or it's like different facts about AI in each newsletter. And it's like a really digestible way to learn about what's happening in the industry. And it almost reminds me of like Axios pro rata, which is a newsletter that really works. Like the different races that happened in venture capital that day, where again, it gives you like each individual story. So just really digestible. You can read it on your phone. Um, our newsletter at the speaking startups is the same way, but about tech news. So I definitely like that one as well. Um, so recommend anybody subscribe to it. I think it might be hosted on beehive and I'm like a huge beehive fan. So, um, obviously I have to shout out, shout out anybody with a newsletter over. Over, over on beehive. Um, and to end our conversation, why are you optimistic about AI?

SPEAKER_327: I think it's, um, for the same reason that people will say so loudly that they don't like how, you know, their Instagram is like this algorithmic. Sort of like non chronological thing being fed to them or whatever the social media app is. It's kind of giving those algorithms to like the consumers and letting them tell the app what they want rather than just like being fed all these things. And I think that's something people have wanted for a long time, but haven't really, there wasn't really like a clear idea of what that looked like. But I think that this is kind of the start of that. Awesome.

SPEAKER_379: Well, thank you so much, Brett, for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_321: I'm super excited to see how AI generated content, you know, just like stacks up against other content in the world. I think this is a really cool stage as a consumer and as somebody that's really passionate about technology and super happy that I came across a playlist AI. Yeah.

SPEAKER_398: Thank you so much for having me.

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