SPEAKER_00: okay everybody it's wednesday we have big news massive layoffs at meta and then a ton of drama between binance and ftx the saga continues and on the second half of the show molly and on the

SPEAKER_03: second half of the show we have a phenomenal builder creating real solutions with real value in the world that people really want it's like a little bit of a yin yang situation we have another

Jason Calacanis: segment of the next unicorns with jenny schneider of homeward which is a startup bringing healthcare

SPEAKER_02: to underserved rural parts of america it's going to be a great show stick with us this week in

SPEAKER_09: startups is brought to you by linkedin jobs a business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters post your first job for free at linkedin.com slash unicorn open phone as a startup founder a lot of mistakes are easy to roll back but using your personal cell phone number as your company number isn't one of them open phone makes it easy to get business phone numbers for you and your team right on top of your existing devices visit openphone.com slash twist to get 20 off your first six months and coda is the all-in-one doc for teams if you've got a stack of niche workflow tools or if you're buried in docs and spreadsheets coda is the doc that brings it all together startups can sign up for free at coda.io slash twist good morning molly it is wednesday

Jason Calacanis: it is wednesday oh yeah um hey how about that election night i know it's the word bloodbath has never been thrown around so flagrantly and with so little meaning it seems i mean what what who's

David Friedberg: having a worse time right now republicans people being laid off for crypto i mean it is chaotic

Jason Calacanis: out there it is absolute chaos well absolute chaos or putin he's having a terrible day too

SPEAKER_21: yeah is he retreating or something i mean i can't even keep up with they're retreating from like the only capital that they managed to claim oof well here's what happened i woke up and uh the first

SPEAKER_28: thing i see across the newswire of course is meta the facebook corporation doing a massive amount of layoffs as everybody knows on sunday night based on the news that massive layers were coming i put in

SPEAKER_29: a j trade at a market order up to five percent so it was at ninety one dollars i think and i closed

SPEAKER_10: at forty ninety four ninety nine or something anyway i bought at ninety five bucks today is the i think it's the best short-term j trade i've made because it's gone up seven bucks on the very sad news but

SPEAKER_28: very pragmatic and healthy news that meta has laid off i saw two different numbers now eleven thousand and sixteen thousand we'll go with the eleven thousand number for now yeah maybe you could queue up for the audience what zuckerberg said since he was never going to do this and then he's definitely

David Friedberg: going to do it and now he's done it was he never going to do this people i mean that was why brad

SPEAKER_28: wrote his letter right like he's not listening he keeps hiring and he's got his head in the sand and then two weeks after maybe three weeks after brad wrote that letter here we are this is one of the

Jason Calacanis: largest layoffs i've seen in the history of tech i don't know if i've ever seen a bigger layoff from a company that didn't shut down yeah so meta um laid off a little over eleven thousand people according to the letter the most recent version of this letter that was posted there was some confusion we should clarify what we're talking about here there was some confusion because brad gerstner who authored that letter from the open letter from the shareholders posted what was probably an early draft of this internal facebook note and it said 16 000 employees so that's where this confusion is coming from but the latest number that is in the news is about 11 000 and we should say that this is significantly more i think than even you predicted jason and that yeah you know we'd

SPEAKER_02: heard it would be sort of many thousands it's 13 percent i think of employees and there were 86 000

SPEAKER_28: employees when we talked on monday i believe yeah i think they might do five percent five to seven i was

SPEAKER_29: like ten percent would be eighty six hundred obviously i was like that's a large number this is

Jason Calacanis: over ten percent yeah 13 it's bananas so the letter says from mark zuckerberg today i'm sharing some of the most difficult changes we've made in meta's history i've decided to reduce the size of our team by about 13 and let more than 11 000 of our talented employees go we are also taking a number of additional steps to become a leaner and more efficient company by cutting discretionary spending and extending our hiring freeze through q1 i want to take accountability for these decisions and for how we got here i know this is tough for everyone and i'm especially sorry to those impacted meta stock as you mentioned is up about eight percent on the news and there are a couple i don't know i i thought there were a couple of notable things here and probably the most notable is that this is not a in no way does this letter signal any shift in direction for the company right like he talks about how they're going to spend less but also quite specifically says fundamentally we're making these changes for two reasons our revenue outlook is lower than we expected at the beginning of the year and we want to make sure we're operating efficiently across both family of apps and reality labs right so it seems as if you know the two divisions if you will the two companies within a company are being impacted relatively equally there were reports of a decrease in overall spend that was

SPEAKER_46: not super significant so there are tons of expenses outside of employees that can be cut at these

SPEAKER_28: companies obviously and he didn't tip his cards there so if we look at what's happening here molly i think we talked about how startups would make the cuts first you know later stage startups would go next and then we wondered apple google facebook meta you know google who's gonna take the medicine next and if or if they will even need to because they have so much cash that they can ride this out but the stock market has said we're not interested in companies with declining earnings profits so you gotta if you can't make the money you said you're gonna make the top line you're gonna have to cut the bottom line so here we are all these hiring freezes were talked about we didn't actually see them in the numbers and it's pretty clear to me that when the stock dipped below a hundred dollars that zuckerberg was going to do something i i didn't think he would be able to maintain his team and the enthusiasm of the

SPEAKER_48: team if that stock kept going down and i think that is what shook up his reality is that the people around

SPEAKER_28: him whose net worth you know probably instead of his going from whatever 75 billion to 25 billion it's still over a billion dollars who cares right right but if you were somebody working for him who's an important person who's got a million dollars or three million dollars and your three million you know turned into 500k like it just materially changes your entire life and your entire planning of your life you might have been thinking about retiring at 60 and now you're thinking about working to 72 and i know these are big numbers so i'm not like um unaware of that fact but here's the next piece so we always try to look at what happens next the next piece is going to be massive

SPEAKER_29: austerity measures there are people in rooms at facebook right now google microsoft who are saying

SPEAKER_28: bring me every expense in this business and they say oh we got this retreat we got this sales conference we have this travel policy business class first class five star hotels four star hotels depending what city you're going to depending on what level you're on we have free food we've got lots of real

SPEAKER_48: estate you know we do your laundry all that stuff is in the process of being ripped out right now yeah

SPEAKER_28: and that's you know a bummer for people but it's not as big of a bummer as losing your job and then as i've said we'll know that this is a seriously acute situation when zuck looks at the salaries of people that were ballooning over the last couple years and he just starts resetting salaries that's very hard to do you hire somebody at x price you tell them hey listen the reality is i can hire two of you for x price

SPEAKER_29: or reality is now there's those laid off people you're gonna have to work harder to earn that salary and

SPEAKER_28: and that's the process that we're going to see next i predict is this doesn't matter yeah salary

SPEAKER_67: cuts are next and that is i have not seen i'm trying to remember when i saw salary up salary cuts a bunch

SPEAKER_28: of time but i've never seen that dot com era i mean in tech yeah in tech in dot com or in tech a bunch of people were brought into rooms and said listen we're cutting salaries across the board 25 for the top people and everybody below this you know threshold of comp is going to be cut 10 you know so usually

SPEAKER_73: like the top folks get hit harder at the bottom folks that are yada yada and it's a way of doing

SPEAKER_28: like a final riff it's the it's the final riff it's the you know sorry but uh there's no more people we can cut or this business is not functional so all we can do is you know now make cuts to people's benefits real estate whatever it happens to be now i'm not saying that's guaranteed because i didn't see that in 2008 i think people are very yeah this is like that's like the last ditch effort but what

SPEAKER_48: people might do in this situation you might cut deeper and then hire people for positions at the what will be the new reality in silicon valley if they're not great so now it's up to every employee and team member to look at this like you're on some ship in the middle of the ocean there's a limited

SPEAKER_28: amount of provisions and everybody's going to have to do more for less and this is when things can get

SPEAKER_80: really ugly like it it makes it really gnarly to run these companies and i saw it during the dot-com era

Jason Calacanis: unquestionably tech recession unquestionably these layoffs are going to continue but i think increasingly what you're going to see is the profound difference between the companies that you know you don't see apple having to do this you see microsoft making a targeted small number of layoffs that are probably performance based you see salesforce laid off a few hundred people and specifically said this is for performance like they're taking you know they're taking the wave of downturn as an opportunity to get rid of their low performers but then you have meta and then you have let's say twitter which has a bunch of bills to pay that it didn't have to pay before and meta is a company that has plowed a bunch of money into a pivot and has to make these cuts and shows no sign of backing away from the pivot so what we're really going to see with any downturn this is all a long way of saying with any downturn you see whose strategy is working like there are companies who are bloated and who are having to lay people off and then the you know ceos are apologizing for that and they're saying we

SPEAKER_84: didn't totally see the growth i see no sign right jack said i hired way too many people jack did that um

Jason Calacanis: patrick collison did it at strike that you know they really were like humble about these layoffs yeah i will say i see no sign of zuck taking the medicine here and i see all these employees suffering as a result like no nothing about this even the stock pop i'm like i don't know why you guys are buying this he is going to continue to plow money into the metaverse and reality labs and i i see no sign that he has been humbled in any way i think he is making a large sacrifice to try to keep his god king dumb alive gosh you know you sound like me i actually think

SPEAKER_00: i know now you're a shareholder and you're like no no i never give him i i very rarely give him

SPEAKER_28: any credit i actually think 11 000 was more than i expected him to do i thought he was going to do

SPEAKER_92: five or six yeah because he's trying to get these he's trying to get gerstner off his back or so he can go right back to doing the same stuff yeah no i yeah i'm going to take a different i'm going to

SPEAKER_28: take a different view i think what happened to him is like he just is going to have a hard time keeping people motivated if that stock price keeps going down so i think this is very simple if your stock price is going way down and you're the people who work for you who are talented start looking at other options like starting a startup or just retiring rich that's the big issue here and people were hiring i think actually airbnb did the same thing like people were hiring with expectations of colossal growth for two years and whether it's the pandemic or the market downturn and this

SPEAKER_80: recession people got in the habit of hiring two years out we've talked about this before and if you were hiring for two years out you might have had twice as many people as you need you might have had three times as many people as you need and man that is hard to digest and that means you know these

SPEAKER_28: 10 15 riffs are just not going to get it done and i i actually will predict apple has the hiring freeze in place now they got pretty serious about that when people do these performance-based things that's a way to get rid of five to ten percent of people i talked about this many times and this isn't like i'm some machiavellian guy like suggesting this but i do think the reason why some people are doing these moves to hey come back to office is as a loyalty test or a gentleman's riff as i've said like the performance stuff come back to the office some of these have you know loyalty tests as gentleman riffs vibes to

SPEAKER_29: them for me and i i think it's a way to just get an extra three to five percent to opt out right yeah

SPEAKER_28: or just making people work harder that's the other thing this this in this this town has never worked so little uh in my experience of 30 years in tech man the last 10 years people have been phoning it in in large part this industry 20 years ago people were in on the weekends people were in at night i know it's like a different generation now but i think that's what we might be heading back to and that's another discussion people haven't started having yet is what happened to like the 60 70 hour crazy

David Friedberg: maniacal tech industry it's like oh you will you'll never get me to co-assign that like i don't i don't

SPEAKER_47: think that's healthy you were here for it yeah you were here for 20 years yeah i'm not endorsing it but i'm just saying people are going to be executives like had heart attacks in their 60s after doing all

SPEAKER_105: that so like nah all right everybody linkedin jobs we have to talk about the downturn right now there is one silver lining for all of us running businesses especially small businesses or nascent companies you know when you got that half dozen dozen people the talent pool is getting stronger and stronger and people are looking for interesting companies to go work for and that's where you come in and that's where linkedin is going to solve all your problems when you run a startup you run a small business you know every single new hire is high stakes so you have to ask yourself what if i hire the wrong person what is that going to do to my team my team dynamics well that's why you have to check out linkedin jobs there's so much great talent out there right now and linkedin jobs helps you find the right people for your team and they help you do it faster now you want to be 100 certain you have the right candidate pool that you're looking at well that's linkedin you're talking about over 800 million people are there use screening questions ask people thoughtful questions hey what if you were a podcasting company what do you love about podcasting what are your top three podcasters and why hey if you're an app company have you downloaded our app and what do you think of it then maybe give me some feedback so that will help you filter the people who really want to come work for you who have that passion linkedin jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to faster post your job for free at linkedin.com slash unicorn that's linkedin.com slash unicorn to post your job for free terms and

Jason Calacanis: conditions do apply i want to go back to the original point though about meta which is like i'm not sure like yes 100 but is stock price the same as strategy in the long term no like stock price it gets investors off your back if the stock price goes up you get a little extra capital to keep doing what you're doing but i do not see a strategy change from meta specifically is the reason you believe

SPEAKER_111: that's because he didn't specifically say we're cutting this amount from the labs portion of the

SPEAKER_114: business and we're pulling back because he wasn't like i'm gonna we're gonna you know we're gonna

Jason Calacanis: refocus energy on the the core part of the business that makes us all the money know that we're gonna have like if there had been a spin-off if he was like this is now our r d division or like labeled it in some way like x and made it its own business division that was but instead you know he's like we've shifted more of our researches i'm reading from the letter onto a smaller number of high priority growth areas like our ai discovery engine our ads and business platforms and our long-term vision for

SPEAKER_111: the metaverse those two out of two out of three are the legacy business now or you know the existing

SPEAKER_28: business well yeah yeah i mean actually maybe maybe i give him credit for that too that sounds like he actually when they wrote that they were thinking of wall street or you know the brad

SPEAKER_00: gersoners of the world like let's give them their let's give them their raw meat two out of three things here are going to be about the things you're talking about there's an argument if you believe

SPEAKER_28: that facebook and instagram are not going to be growing businesses and they can't compete there's an argument to cut really deep there and manage them for profits just like squeeze every ounce out of that business which is what aol wound up doing uh eventually with the dial-up business they couldn't make it grow because of broadband and they were just like you know what cut the 10 000 support operators cut as many people who are involved in the dial-up business and then they used all that funding to try to build the content business which the company weblogs inc that they bought of mine was part of right um so that that was i actually watched that up front they they took that wow i never even thought about that what if they just said we're going to keep cutting even

SPEAKER_29: harder on facebook and the instagram businesses to just run them for profit right and just throw

Jason Calacanis: off profit so you're right that's what they've been doing that's what they've always done and the margins were insane facebook like this is why the stock was so high in the first place is that facebook and instagram throw off profit like crazy and the only reason they don't now yeah is because of the huge increase in spending 15 billion dollars i will remind you on reality labs yeah this is the other

SPEAKER_29: thought test that people are having right now in silicon valley what would be the minimum amount

SPEAKER_28: of people to run whatsapp and when whatsapp was a private company there was something like 50 engineers working on it for 500 million users you know it turns out like some of these apps you could literally run one engineer per 10 million people you know with the right engineers and so these in these companies have gotten hugely bloated and i think that's going to be if this gets really acute over the next six

SPEAKER_129: months i think you're going to see some people even move to that this could get even oh yeah

David Friedberg: this may not be the end this may be the beginning we agree there absolutely and sorry to the people

SPEAKER_28: who lost their gigs and yeah again usually they land on their feet will this time be any different

Jason Calacanis: i mean now you're talking about potentially you're talking about tens of thousands of people coming out of work at the same time like landing on your feet let's just say there's going to be some

SPEAKER_137: do you have any anecdotal about you know people in your circle who have been laid off right now from

SPEAKER_28: any of the no if anybody wants to you know let us know anecdotally like what they're seeing because yeah it used to be if you if you left a company you had three other options i'm wondering are there

David Friedberg: three other options yeah molly at launch.co you can email me yeah all right and we we i mean we were

Chamath Palihapitiya: beating that finance story to death yesterday i thought and yet it keeps getting more interesting

Jason Calacanis: what is i mean okay now this is going to zero you called this i did l o i remember binance signed a non-binding a letter of intent to purchase ftx or as jason calls them letters of nothing and now

SPEAKER_02: letters of insignificance it is being whispered

Jason Calacanis: that binance is quote strongly leaning towards scrapping ftx rescue takeover after first glance at books whoa this is being reported on coindesk according to a person familiar with the matter so take this you know with the appropriate size grain of salt backing out writes the publication would be one more stunning development in the collapse of sam bankman breed's crypto empire matt levine had a piece that was written sort of yesterday as this or right before it must have been sunday night as this was sort of all unfolding what day is it must have been monday night and was like the value of ftx kind of logically at this point must be zero yeah and it appears that binance got in there maybe looked at those books uh according to coindesk source quote roughly half a day into the

SPEAKER_47: process of reviewing ftx's internal data and loan commitments has led binance to strongly lean

SPEAKER_51: against completing the transaction seems like leverage loans yes and a lack of financial discipline was a major story in the operations of these exchanges and crypto projects because they financially were so

SPEAKER_28: clever that they created margin-based programs i think they started to behave and we were kind of wondering from the outside like how these companies this big yeah we're like wait a second you know i don't know dropbox is worth 10 billion box zendesk companies with real revenue we're like well they're worth 10 billion and that thing's worth 30 billion like how and i think what we're finding is a lot of this stuff was propped up by leverage where people would take some asset they have and get two or three times that to go make other investments so this would be as if you know i don't know let's pick a company facebook had 50 billion in the bank and they turned it into 200 billion with leverage and started buying up a bunch of stuff and their company had the risk if that you know whatever underlying asset let's say equity and companies went down they'd have to pay it and then you get that what's called a margin

SPEAKER_48: call and so this seems to be have been super widespread in a way of doing business and i can't

SPEAKER_28: help but think molly that because these people were such financial wizards my eyebrows are going way up like i got two wizards somebody tells me the rock does what i do at my eyebrow as well the people's

SPEAKER_21: eyebrow is that what they call the people's eyebrows that's what he called it yeah this was back from his

SPEAKER_47: wrestling days you have to be an old stalker like me to know about people's eyebrows so anyway

SPEAKER_158: listen i don't my my knowledge of the rock starts at black adam which i loved and i know people hate

Chamath Palihapitiya: it but yeah i have no idea who this guy is i know i like i know he was a wrestler and then maybe in

SPEAKER_00: fast and furious and then he did like there's something that's all i know it may be something you know what the rock is cooking you smell what the rock is cooking it's like he's got a catchphrase

SPEAKER_164: can you smell what the rock is cooking seriously honestly you know i got i have pop culture blind

SPEAKER_163: spots when he came back to wrestlemania after he had already left to go to fast and furious like

SPEAKER_00: my brother and i lost our minds i literally one of my big pop culture blind spots is professional wrestling and fast and furious i don't have time for this nonsense i'm sorry that you all love it

SPEAKER_28: i'm busy with andor star wars marvel and lord of the rings and and house of the dragon i got i got other things on my docket i can't be involved in everything people biggest mistake i ever made was not

SPEAKER_167: going to wrestlemania at levi stadium right after levi opened i have literally never gone to any

SPEAKER_03: wrestling event oh you and i are going to go to wrestlemania one year because it is why and all

SPEAKER_171: other sports will be ruined for you because like a guy comes flying and hits somebody with like a chair and then like jumps off of a scaffolding onto somebody else it's all fake yeah but it doesn't matter

SPEAKER_03: it is acts of an insane acrobatics and it ends it does not matter it is literally the most exciting

SPEAKER_67: thing you'll ever watch and every other you'll be like it's cirque or soleil with people on steroids is

SPEAKER_03: what you're telling me yeah they get pretty messed up though i mean it's like it's a real it's a terrible takes a terrible physical toll like i don't want to downplay that but it is pretty awesome so

SPEAKER_10: finance ceo cz yes i love how these geniuses are also brilliant that they have to have acronyms sbf

Chamath Palihapitiya: cz nobody could just be chuck or susan right is everybody it can't be just like steve or bill

SPEAKER_180: you know can't be travis in the in the one case like his name is jack already it's like a chinese name

SPEAKER_181: and so the super villains legion anyway the super villains all exactly they have to have their

SPEAKER_29: like wrote a memo to his team and the thing i found interesting about this if this is true this is the quote we have in our notes here i don't know i guess this thing got leaked as the due diligence for the deal is ongoing i want to remind everyone do not trade ftg tokens if you have a bag

SPEAKER_28: you have a bag do not buy yourself i guess insider trading is now what they're concerned with is that

SPEAKER_29: what that means he doesn't want them trading their tokens while they're doing this so yeah and then he says but that's okay more importantly we need to hold ourselves to higher standards than even in banks to me it's like something you say when you have not been holding yourself to high standards in banks like there should be compliance and this is where i wound up molly i want to know where you wound up

SPEAKER_80: original set of technologies ethereum bitcoin you know blockchain nft stuff smart contracts core technologies code written by you know pirate hackers all this stuff was super dope brilliant like total mind f you know like whoa man this stuff is radically freaking cool if this gets executed and

SPEAKER_189: and done well it's going to change everything then a bunch of like grifters shysters criminals delusional people talkers with deformities i don't i don't know if this is where the genius exists

Jason Calacanis: well it's like you got to be you had to be pretty smart to you know if you look at the people who were able to understand this uh-huh all the way down okay financialize it like you know it's it's everything you said i think i put this in our group chat our crypto chat at one point it's like look every utopia starts out great and then somebody comes in who wants all the money and all the power yeah and in this case the the people who came in and who wanted all the money and all the power were also the ones who were like the only people smart enough to understand it and it ended up the same as it ever has like you know matt there's been a clip going around of matt levine asking sbf to to define yield farming matt levine was like i'm really cynical about this and you just defined a ponzi scheme in an even more cynical way than i ever could and so it sounds like what you're saying is you're effectively running a ponzi and you're fine with that and sbf was like i mean that's a fair statement right like wow so people came along financialized this to their own benefit because somebody always wants all the money and all the power and then the whole thing and then they built centralized exchanges and then it wasn't enough to just take people's deposits and then buy coins for them wasn't enough to invest it's the bear sterns all over against every freaking you know financial manipulation thing it's not enough to just take deposits and invest on their behalf then they would also be like well take your deposit and then i'll invest and then i'll also take your collateral and i'll invest that and then i'll issue you a 20 to 1 margin loan to keep investing on your behalf

SPEAKER_201: or give you some other ish coin i don't want to say the s word here but that was the thing that was

SPEAKER_28: weird it's like they're like hey and here's some of these coins so it's like give us your coins that have some value we loan them out we get some margin on that you get some they get some extra and like we're just giving you some extra funny money here's some extra monopoly money on top of the imaginary money and this is like layers of imaginary money being flipped and loaned and no core value i think all this stuff gets washed and then what's left is whatever the original decentralized technology was that can't be stopped apparently or it's hard to stop you know like bitcoin and ethereum but maybe this feels like the end to me listen a lot of founders are loosey-goosey

SPEAKER_205: with their personal phone numbers you know that can cause chaos why because now you got somebody's phone number in some sales documents in some corporate emails and then they leave your company and then what happens one of your great clients looks in their email they look in their docs folder they find the document they call that person now they've left your company they're working for a competitor or the number doesn't pick up and you look super unprofessional and listen you got to grow up as a startup nobody wants to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a phone system in an office somewhere no you want flexibility you want that number to be provisioned quickly and digitally and that's what open phone does so well it's pretty simple we all understand that so here's what you do you get open phone you create business numbers for your team it just works like an app on your smartphone it is an app on your smartphone or on your desktop you pick a number

SPEAKER_80: you install the app you're done easy peasy lemon squeezy we use open phone in our sales team every day day in and day out it's amazing it's flawless it's stable and it dare i say it's affordable open phone absurdly affordable i'm going to say it at ten dollars a month but twist listeners can get an extra 20 off any plan for the first six months because they love startups sign up at open phone.com twist if you want that discount please do it uh so that they know we sent you open phone.com twist you got other numbers that you're paying a whole bunch of money for they'll take them over right you can port them over for the cost of zero dollars and zero cents for free i want you to head over to o-p-e-n-p-h-o-n-e.com slash twist today open phone.com twist go do it right now if you're an lp in a fund

SPEAKER_28: that's in crypto you know what what did andreessen horowitz raise like some crazy multi-billion dollars or a three billion dollar crypto fund was the last one yeah four the latest andreessen horowitz one and unless i'm not just singling them out because they seem to be the most aggressive in this four and a

SPEAKER_47: half billion and their total funds raised for crypto were seven point six billion dollars okay whatever's

SPEAKER_51: not deployed and i'm not saying this because like i'm trying to throw shade at them the logical thing

SPEAKER_48: to do here is to give back 90 of that money and just dissolve that fund or reduce the fund down to 10 or 20 and make it commensurate with the opportunity because the opportunity that they started putting hundreds of millions of dollars into were all frauds ponzi schemes or houses of cards you know the most the best way you could frame this was a house of cards or incompetence and at worst it was a ponzi and a fraud if that's your biggest investments fall into those categories it's time to close up shop folks or it's time to greatly reduce this and say you know what we're going to start making five ten million investments in series a companies that are building actual products we're not going to be layering 100 million 500 million slugs into giant companies that we didn't diligence i mean that's the other piece that's got to come out here is who's on the board of ftx and listen i it might be some of my friends that might be people i'm friendly with but this is where diligence matters

SPEAKER_80: and governance matters we've seen this over and over again but with crypto because of the layers of

SPEAKER_48: meshugana and you know fraud and risk being taken there needed to be many more controls here who's responsible for the controls in a private company management and the board investors you know and so who was steering the ship who knew what when this is going to be the lawsuit of lawsuits this is like

SPEAKER_80: theranos level i mean could this be even bigger than theranos in terms of the amount of money raised

Jason Calacanis: it probably is in terms of the oh yeah made off in terms of the ecosystem overall this is a trillion dollar asset class this isn't just so like a bunch of vcs are going to lose a lot of money sure without a doubt you're absolutely right that that at this point i mean and that's not going to happen right a16z has been super firm i mean it might happen but you know i've seen them on stage multiple times at various events being like where this is a long-term play we're committed to the long-term like we're not gonna you know and so it's possible that they'll keep but yeah in terms of the overall impact of what is imploding right it's not like one project is imploding or and that's going to happen too right one coin goes to zero this is the exchanges this is the the financialization layer that institutional investors have been a part of that like this is a big octopus like this is going to

SPEAKER_218: have this has fingers and everything well and also if they deployed you know five six seven billion

SPEAKER_28: who knows where they are in the deployment of all this capital but let's pick a number four mm-hmm let's pick a uh management fee 2.5 means they were pulling down a hundred million for the last five years they pulled out 500 million in management fees to then incinerate all this money

SPEAKER_48: i mean these lps are going to be so underwater if they lose all their money and andreason horowitz swept a half billion dollars in fees while they were losing it i mean there's got to be some sort of a clawback or something here yeah you know and who knows maybe there's some rebound here but the scale

David Friedberg: of this is what i find that's astonishing what i saw a quote i saw a thing that was just too crazy

SPEAKER_28: yeah i never understood it when i was looking at all these opportunities um and you and i have been having this discussion with climate startups and people in esg and stuff like that hey sometimes we had this discussion on vc sunday school two weeks ago i think like hey the valuation pretty high

SPEAKER_48: uh rent's too damn high yeah these these re these rents and valuations are nothing these people were investing in companies for hundreds of millions to billions of dollars when they had just nascent

Jason Calacanis: revenue or house of card revenue this is like they want six months ago you know they're like they're still at 20x and we're like talking 10x it's you're not like an ocean apart bloomberg is estimating that ftx which was worth 32 billion dollars on monday is now estimated to be worth one single dollar crazy dollar and and sbf himself lost 95 or 96 percent of his personal wealth overnight and according

SPEAKER_47: to bloomberg at least has personal debt totaling about 650 million dollars i mean bernie madoff was tens of

SPEAKER_28: billions of dollars lost now some of it was paper so there's also a little bit of that going on here people made a bunch of paper gains so who knows what the cash in was you know with bernie madoff it was

SPEAKER_84: 20 billion cash in and like 80 billion and some amount of it was on paper so you know this is i

SPEAKER_47: think this is bigger than that yeah 17 and a half billion dollars they estimate was stolen from investors in the madoff scandal and if ftx just went from 32 billion to one yeah some of that is

SPEAKER_28: investor money some of that is i think bag holders who had accounts there like people have if i'm understanding this correctly people who had deposits there are going to lose their deposits right that's

SPEAKER_00: they didn't get their deposits out in time i mean this is even more reasonable to that adage about like hey not your keys not your coins kind of thing that they talk about a lot like the idea of

SPEAKER_28: keeping your cryptocurrency on an exchange unless it's maybe coinbase and it's here in the united states and it's regulated in public and you know and they made they actually did under pressure because of

SPEAKER_47: all of this make their balance sheets public so you can at least say that but yeah i mean look as soon

Jason Calacanis: as you're participating in this brand new thing at the level of effectively gambling and you're you're just trying to get in on the get rich quick scheme and you don't like you said own your keys and you don't understand the underlying technology just assume you're the mark anyway and there's a whole sub story

SPEAKER_51: here which we won't get into but alameda the trading the you know the trading firm not the platform ftx seems like there was some insider dealing there yeah that and vinnie talked about that yesterday you go

SPEAKER_47: back to listeners if you go back to our crypto round table you can hear vinnie try to explain a little bit about how these sister companies were clearly dealing with each other that you know ftx sbf was using the ftt token to bail out alameda but that may have left a huge hole in its balance sheet that maybe cz knew about and exploited to cause this run like it's all again it's all very complicated but i i am with you i think this is a full-on lehman brothers bear stearns moment like this is a huge

SPEAKER_51: collapse and of course collateral damage bitcoin down to 17k down 15 fast 24 hours ethereum down 24

SPEAKER_29: last 24 hours solana down 46 i think also in the last 24 48 hours this stuff is just gonna we're in

SPEAKER_247: full-on contagion mode yeah my tiny little are you looking at your 400 leather i am so okay you remember i put a grand total of 1300 into crypto just so i could be the guinea pig for the world it's a nice

SPEAKER_251: weekend away a little weekend getaway i was like okay like you never know i don't know gave up a

Jason Calacanis: weekend getaway and to the moon i gave up a really nice weekend getaway and my uh current portfolio is

SPEAKER_256: worth 386.55 moving into facebook we should see who can lose more money faster like jtrades or well i mean i'm down like 15 of that sounds like you're down 80 or something about yeah uh yeah just sell it

Chamath Palihapitiya: all put it in facebook trust and suck you just know you haven't erased until you sell wow i'm a hodler okay i'm a hodler all right next up is the next unicorns while people are playing what is this new

SPEAKER_256: expression everybody loves if you f around you find out exactly here so our next unicorn is out here like

Jason Calacanis: literally saving lives so like reminder real businesses products what you could be doing with your life just as one example is founding a healthcare company that brings high quality healthcare to rural parts of america that literally don't have it like you could be keeping people alive like jenny schneider the ceo of homeward which is a technology-enabled healthcare provider delivering care like i said to these rural communities which have a 23 higher mortality rate compared to urban ones which is appalling and it's just a super interesting conversation about how to get doctors and high quality health care to the parts of america that just are not don't have it

SPEAKER_29: literally don't have it all right enjoy another amazing next unicorn series and if you have ideas for our next unicorn just email producers at thisweekinstartups.com we're always looking for that company that's you know in that hundred to five hundred million range and doing something really interesting maybe under the radar because we're talking about ftx and facebook so much exactly

SPEAKER_80: but enjoy the interview well done enjoy hey listen if you're trying to get your startup off the ground or trying to run it more efficiently which i know you need to do right now you got to do more with

SPEAKER_273: less you're gonna need tools to do it and one of the most amazing new tools in the world of startups is coda coda and with coda you can easily create a wiki for your team you onboard everybody get

SPEAKER_80: the new hires all your remote folks people in the office i don't know if you're hybrid what you're doing and they can all adapt and quickly change to this dynamic crazy environment and it's going to eliminate all the loose ends and mistakes your team's going to make because you're moving fast and speed matters how many times have you repeated these sentences inside of your organization is this the latest version of whatever document whatever project whatever table it is or where do those stats live right where's that dashboard do we make a decision on this or not all that confusion happens because you're using the wrong tool and your work is spread out across multiple tools this is slowing your team down it's creating chaos and coda is the chaos corrector it's going to centralize your work no matter what format it is and your team's going to gsd get space done middle words stuff get stuff done remove the roadblocks one simple tool to unite them all if you're a startup coda is the all-in-one tool

SPEAKER_105: that will make all the difference and you can start right now for free head over to coda.io slash twistcoda.io slash twist that's coda.io slash twist to get started for free jenny schneider

Jason Calacanis: is the ceo of homeward a technology-enabled health care provider delivering care to those

SPEAKER_275: who don't have it and we hope the next unicorn jenny welcome to our series thanks so much molly delighted to get to be here tell me i guess in your own words i gave the like the tagline version

SPEAKER_276: but tell me what you're working on right now i am working on a company called homeward health and what we're doing is we're re-architecting health and care delivery in rural america i have

Jason Calacanis: family in rural america grew up in montana and north dakota and have all too good an idea of why this is so necessary but lay it out for us what is missing that you're trying to solve well lucky

SPEAKER_281: for you to have family in rural markets because there's so many small town um that are small towns in america that are absolutely wonderful with great character and wonderful people what we

SPEAKER_276: know is that delivery of health care in rural markets is not at high enough quality as compared to urban markets so if you live in a in an area that's designated as rural by the last three numbers of your zip code your rates of mortality are 23 percent higher and that's independent of socioeconomic status and so really the big issue is there's not enough health care providers in rural markets to provide the type of health care that people need and people deserve and so we're taking a different approach rather than asking people in rural markets to drive hours for a few minutes of health care services in a city we're actually trying to flip the model on its head and bring health care to people through the use of things such as mobile vans home visits and technology services so it's not

SPEAKER_274: all just telemedicine it's literally sometimes a doctor will come to your town that's right and so

SPEAKER_276: you know one of the big things that i've learned and my co-founder mark kendale from our various journeys prior to homeward health is that telehealth is an incredible asset telehealth alone will not solve a crisis so telehealth has been in existence for 10 plus years and yet healthcare outcomes in rural markets have continued to worsen what we know is that healthcare is very personal and you need to have an established relationship built off of trust prior to leveraging some of the other tools and techniques that might be helpful so telehealth alone will not fix healthcare delivery in rural markets

SPEAKER_281: telehealth plus some other combinations of in person and frankly ways to build trust and make

Jason Calacanis: healthcare more convenient will so how does it work in terms of let's say a mobile van or a traveling doctor and building that trust is it the same is it ideally the same doctor who comes to visit a town over

SPEAKER_276: and over i think the biggest thing to learn to earn trust is getting to know people and getting to know communities and so when we launch in a specific county in a specific state we hire people from that county we hire people to help us you know to figure out the the routes that we're going to use for our mobile van help us as we go into a home to visit with a person to set up the technology components that

SPEAKER_281: can then go on and monitor people throughout the rest of their time with us as their healthcare provider

SPEAKER_274: what do you mean when you say you hire people you mean you hire doctors in that area or you hire like

SPEAKER_276: logistics support staff yes and yes and so one of the big questions i often get asked is if there's not enough doctors today in rural america how are you going to create enough doctors i'm not saying

SPEAKER_291: that was my question but that was well i'm giving you i'm giving you credit for that question

SPEAKER_276: and the answer is uh we're not right but we are going to do something different which is we're going to allow people to work at the top of their license so we start with the team of medical assistants nurses nurse practitioners physician assistants and doctors and it's a combination of teams in different locations that provide the optimal care as a team and so when we look at these rural markets there are logistics people there are medical professionals that live there that we at various levels of training we just talked about some of a medical assistant etc and so we actually help employ these people to deliver the care in that local ecosystem what that does is gives us an incredible insight as to the nuances and the delightful characteristics of each small town and each

Jason Calacanis: population of people whom we're caring for what would those people otherwise be doing like might they be

SPEAKER_276: employed by a local clinic or a hospital or leaving yeah what we find is that there's huge rates of hospital closures in states that are designated as rural or areas that are designated as rural within a state there's a lot of people who actually don't have employment who have these skill sets who live in these small towns or frankly have to drive many hours to an urban environment to be able to find a job we are not stealing healthcare providers that are in existence today that's not the model in fact we

SPEAKER_281: partner with people you know we believe that in order to drive sustainable healthcare outcomes in an economically sustainable fashion we need to work deeply to partner and not compete in these rural

SPEAKER_128: markets i mean if i'm being honest the hospital that my mom keeps ending up in like i would prefer that

Jason Calacanis: you just steal i'm sure i'm sure there are good people there anyway um different topic quickly though will you give us that definition of rural like what population are we talking about yeah so if you look

SPEAKER_276: at the u.s census map there's nine different cutoffs um that have from the very tip top of urban to the very bottom of rural and they have to do with population density i haven't committed all of those different nine cutoffs to memory so i'm gonna have to punt on that one but it's we really are looking at the bottom three um so really areas that are very remote often lack infrastructure and by infrastructure i mean public transportation lack of internet connectivity um and sometimes even poor

SPEAKER_293: poor road access how did you get interested in this well similar to you i have roots um or family roots

SPEAKER_276: in rural america so i grew up in a small town in wino in minnesota called winona minnesota and um yeah right so i spent every summer we would vacation in north dakota that's that was like the um gold country

SPEAKER_281: for us in fact i actually went back two summers ago with my children my dad and we did a nice road

SPEAKER_276: trip it was a super fun time oh lovely yeah it was really great uh but i but i grew up in a family that is not medically trained my dad owns the local auto parts store in winona and services many of the surrounding very rural towns in minnesota lots of tractors lots of you know car car mechanic uh and fixes type of work and um i was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes when i was 12 and at that time um i didn't know anything any different but i was i was not able to see an endocrinologist a specialist who helps deal with type 1 diabetes in young children until about three weeks later and that just felt normal because i didn't have anything else to compare it to until i went to johns hopkins for

SPEAKER_281: medical school and realized that that first time after diagnosis is super critical and that's where things kind of go awry either really low blood sugar or really high blood sugar as you're starting to figure out your regimen and that that was not the normal or not the recommended care pathway

SPEAKER_276: and it's started to pique my interest and think about what are the outcomes for people who live in areas where there are health deserts and there are not as many health care providers and put me down this road to understand more deeply the nuances of what's driving poor worse outcomes in these areas

Jason Calacanis: well it sounds like you are i'm making a more explicit connection but it sounds like you also are informed by this idea of your father's business and the fact that service can happen in a mobile way

SPEAKER_276: yes and it's it's actually kind of incredible so growing up myself my two brothers most of our our friends uh worked for my dad at some some point during high school and usually the job was to be a driver and what that meant is you're in a white mpe truck motor parts and equipment and someone would call in and say hey look i need a spark plug or a rotator belt and they would give you the part you'd get in the car and you'd go drive it over to the business happened the whole day and it occurred to me that you know we think of those these businesses as very important and can actually get parts to the businesses when the parts are broken but when people break we don't bring parts to people we instead ask people broken people to come to a certain location the service level differentiation between the car

SPEAKER_281: business in rural minnesota versus the healthcare business was really striking for me

SPEAKER_286: mm-hmm okay so how hard is this logistically to pull up there might be i assume that might be part

Jason Calacanis: of the reason why that doesn't hasn't existed yet yeah so it's hard yeah it's again i'm not i'm not

SPEAKER_293: it's not an easy problem or we probably would not still be a problem um but i would say that there's a

SPEAKER_276: couple things that we're approaching it with that are different and i think are really important one is that if you look at why are there so few providers in rural markets it's because the way that the economics of reimbursement work for health care it really doesn't make it sustainable so today we have a fee-for-service world which is i fill up my docket from eight to five with visits if you're sicker i can charge more money and get reimbursed at a higher rate um that's not actually um a line economic alignment for there's no real economic incentive for me to keep you healthier right it gets really tricky in these areas where it's hard to fill this the docket from eight to five because people are dispersed throughout and i don't know you hit a pothole or the tractor breaks you're waiting for a part from my dad's store to show up and you miss your time slot and so it becomes really difficult for providers in a fee-for-service world to stay afloat and so we've taken a different approach for that concept around total capitation or owning the entire cost of what it takes to deliver service to somebody the other part the other key pillar for us is really understanding what it takes to deliver and build a set of solutions on technology so you can't mythically or magically create more providers to live in these rural small towns but instead you can leverage some technology to actually take things to a different level allow people to practice at the true top of their licensure what they're totally trained to do and then take away as many of those administrative tasks as you can and then by putting those two

SPEAKER_281: together it really changes the healthcare paradigm and healthcare delivery system so it's this combination

Jason Calacanis: of efficiency that makes it easier to be a practitioner in these areas and a fee model that means that you don't have to worry so much about economies of scale like the the easy assumption would be well it's hard to make a living as a doctor in a small town because there aren't enough patients

SPEAKER_128: but it sounds like you're saying that's not really the problem it's actually how we charge that makes

SPEAKER_276: it it's not that's not the problem yeah it's not that there's enough patients it's true it's truly how we charge and how we reimburse for those services and the technology is both to make providers more efficient but actually to deliver a lot of the care that can be done more remotely so telehealth is one piece of that but there are things such as remote patient monitoring where i can track if you have high blood pressure how your blood pressure is doing and adjust your medications remotely get those medications delivered to your door your chance of following through on that is much higher than if i ask you to come in every other week to drive four hours for 15 minutes and then send you to a different pharmacy two hours the other direction and so a lot of this is truly just understanding what is it like and where people live what is their day-to-day existence look like so when we start our service we first meet people in their home and what that does is it allows us to understand people in a totally different way you know we prefer to call people members rather than patients because we're actually just taking care of people so we understand what who they are what what's afflicting them from their health care status in their home it also helps us build trust so that we can deploy some of these technology we can put our cell phone number into their phone so that they can call us when something's needed it's a very different relationship than handing someone a flyer or sending a flyer to someone and being asked to call and so we understand trust is important

SPEAKER_286: technology and economic alignment of incentives so break down a little bit for me that the first part of

Jason Calacanis: that the re overhauling the fee structure by kind of owning the whole stack as we might say in the

SPEAKER_281: software world how does that literally work yeah so there are some there are a majority of healthcare

SPEAKER_276: today is still a fee for service every time you go in you get charged for what happened there are a couple models and a couple populations where that's changed and most of that has been in government and so that's in medicare and in medicaid and the government says i will take care of molly and molly will will you know is allowed to spend i'm going to make up a number here ten thousand dollars because molly has hypertension and she has recurring urinary tract infections and she's of this age so she on on you know give or take it'll cost about ten thousand dollars a year to take care of molly you can actually can you can you provide that care at that cost or even better can you provide better care at a lower cost and then actually keep keep the dollars that you overachieve on all of a sudden as a provider i'm not trying to get molly in to see me as many times as i can i'm actually trying to think okay how can i make molly better and reduce the recurrence of the urinary tract infections how can i manage her blood pressure so i can give her a remote you know a remote blood pressure cuff that every time she puts it on i upload up the data is uploaded and i can change what kind of medication she has we can talk about some preventive measures so that i'm actually proactively taking care of her health care needs rather than having her come back to me so that i can bill every single time i get her the the change is very different in terms of the care you're providing to

SPEAKER_281: think thoroughly around preventing items versus reacting to items yeah it's so interesting we um

Jason Calacanis: have talked before to other health care providers about this concept of how health care has the worst

SPEAKER_274: like effectively customer service it's a customer service question and any description that it's

SPEAKER_47: startling how startling it is whenever you describe a patient as a person it's it is amazing to me even

SPEAKER_293: now when we talk about people like why are you not calling them a patient and i'm like well see like

SPEAKER_276: something happens to a patient you know if you call them a person you think about them differently you think about how hard it was for them to get here versus why they didn't take their medications you start to view the world very different and and for me for full disclosure when i was diagnosed with diabetes um it was the number one thing that bothered me that people would say oh oh i see oh you're a diabetic i'm like actually actually that is a piece of what me but like i'm actually a really great basketball player i think i'm kind of funny i like to dance i ride my bicycle i love to run like why am i this one thing to you right and it's um and i think that changing that that the nomenclature the words really changes the paradigm of how we think about providing care for people yeah absolutely so

Jason Calacanis: far what you've described is is fairly general practitioner where do or could specialists come in

SPEAKER_276: or is that an option well it's a very important option so when we look at access to health care in rural markets rural markets have half the number of primary care doctors per head per head count as urban markets and a 10 of all rural counties have no health care provider like one out of 10 rural counties have zero health care providers it gets worse when you talk about specialists so in rural compared to urban there's one eighth the number of specialists in rural as compared to urban so absolutely this model has to include and has to involve specialists and as we launch into our providing of care the common specialties there's a number of them that work really well from a technology and a remote monitoring component such as cardiology there's a lot of diagnostic and maintenance work you can do in this environment and then again back to talking about partnering and we partner very closely with the existing um health systems for things such as a cardiac catheterization or a new valve where you have to go in for a surgery or a more extensive procedure those are not things that we do but there are centers that do those and do those very well

SPEAKER_281: but a lot of the upfront work can be done so that those cardiologists practicing in those centers can do the things they're most specifically trained to do right so you could do a lot of that

SPEAKER_101: before you have to go to the center if you were a member here yes and how great for everybody great

SPEAKER_276: for the docs great for the member you know it reduces costs reduces complications and it makes

SPEAKER_274: it a ton easier for everybody yeah all right well talk to me about the business is it b2b is it direct to

Jason Calacanis: consumer it sounds like you're talking about a partnership model help me break down how you get paid

SPEAKER_276: sure so we launched our business in in march we are status post series b fundraising now we've announced a partnership with priority health which is a large health insurance company in the state of michigan and we will be providing care for 30 000 medicare eligible individuals so we come in as an in-network provider and we're responsible for their their clinical outcomes and their total cost of care and we do that through our partnership with them what that means is because they're medicare eligible and i was giving you the ten thousand dollar uh cost per year um just kind of making something up but each of these individuals given their own comorbidities will cost the government a certain amount and the government allocates that amount of money to priority health priority health will then give it to us

SPEAKER_298: and we're on the hook to provide care for that individual got it okay and then is it uh they'll just it

SPEAKER_274: will be that whole amount it's not a revenue share it's sort of a straightforward like this is the

SPEAKER_359: amount yeah so the the way these typically work is really it's really tricky yeah so at the end of

SPEAKER_276: the day our goal is to provide better care and that's very clearly documented through clinical metrics at a lower cost and then there's a component of the sharing of that if when we're able to do that that that is a revenue reimburse reimbursement for us and for our partner at priority health

Jason Calacanis: and then do the the doctors actually work for you do you manage the fleet like how much they do

SPEAKER_277: goes into the back end yeah yes we have our own set of as we talked about medical assistants rns

SPEAKER_276: physician assistants mds medical doctors and we also work with many of those care providers in the ecosystem as well so we have our own that work for us and we partner with ones that work in the ecosystem again it'd be really difficult across a population of 30 000 people to own all of the different care providers but we manage a lot of the upfront care and then work and refer our members to the specialists when needed within the ecosystem right so it ends up being the bulk of the care if

Jason Calacanis: not the most expensive care that's right you make it up in volume so that's right yeah and then on this sort of path to next unicorn at least within this framework what do your margins look like

SPEAKER_301: well we were just in the process of launching the company we've only been alive and launched for just

SPEAKER_276: about six months so it's really difficult i think at this stage to talk about margins and the world of margins has shifted but we are building a product solution set that has a path to profitability for any cohort we have in a state within 18 months and there's large numbers of dollars involved for taking care of sick people in rural america and we believe that we can do it in a very cost-efficient way but more than that in a way that really means something to people and is a very different experience and drives much better at clinical outcomes yeah and then what is the

Jason Calacanis: market size for this how many of these communities are there that you would want to reach so if you're

SPEAKER_276: looking just in america and that's the the country where we live in the country where we're starting this is 20 of the entire u.s population so one out of five people so it's not small it's not a small market you know sometimes i'll hear people say oh it's so great that you're doing something so niche in rural what a tiny market and i'm thinking to myself when we launched uh lavongo which was a unicorn um people said diabetes is huge well diabetes is about half the market of rural

SPEAKER_369: yeah so so so real market is there's a very large tam here that is remarkable so how do people access this

SPEAKER_276: care so so today people will access the care as we're an in-network provider for their insurance company in in the rural markets where we're launching we're starting again as i mentioned we've only been a company for a few months here but we're starting in the state of michigan and um about about 40 percent of the entire population in the state of michigan is lives in what's designated as a rural market it's a high high volume rural state if you will so you just

SPEAKER_274: launched six months ago as you've said and raised a 50 million dollar series b healthcare is a space

Jason Calacanis: that bcs can be a little scared of is what do you think i mean aside from you and your expertise and you know i'm domain expertise really matters you're a doctor but like what do you think it is that has

SPEAKER_274: made this click for your investors i think it's i think it's a couple things one is it the um

SPEAKER_276: opportunity we talked a little bit around the size of the population right so 60 60 plus million people in rural markets that's a large population yeah um the second is the timing around technology assets to deliver the care here is critical i think the third is real recognition across the ecosystem about how broken healthcare is in rural markets this is a bipartisan issue you're starting to see a lot of focus in delivery of healthcare in rural markets and i think the last is um there aren't a lot of people here fixing it because it has been traditionally very hard to do and so there's a first mover advantage and we've assembled an incredibly strong team to help deliver on that promise

Jason Calacanis: what does it take for you to grow like you have to sort of do you have to make these partnerships

SPEAKER_276: with insurance companies one by one we do and i'll i'll be honest the um you know kind of the top of the funnel partnerships because of the size of the problem in rural america has not been as difficult as i would have thought um there's there's a real eagerness to try something new and try something different um our next stage of the business is heads down building and showing that our model is successful and so we're really excited to get to do that in michigan with an incredible partner in

Jason Calacanis: priority health i mean i cannot help but sort of fast forward to broad adoption of this and imagine that the other thing it does is is help keep these communities viable yes and we're hoping to get to

SPEAKER_276: montana and north dakota to help your family molly yes please my mom is also a type 1 diabetic that

SPEAKER_274: would be amazing i appreciate it jenny schneider is the ceo of homeward um thanks so much hopefully

SPEAKER_275: a next unicorn will be watching thank you thanks for all the excitement all right everybody that's it for

SPEAKER_29: us today it's wednesday we made it to the middle of the week a couple more days to go molly this has been a

Jason Calacanis: heck of a week just we're just crawling toward the finish we do not by the way have friday off we are not one of those companies that takes uh the three day veterans day weekend um so we will be with you day after day tomorrow we got lon harris for another episode of this weekend streaming oh yeah disney

SPEAKER_80: results are out plus andor is rocking lots to talk about and i would like to get a a startup of the day and we live in the future and can we can we get some stuff other than this chaos and this news is that are it's just too big to not focus on anyway we're gonna see you tomorrow all right take care bye bye