SPEAKER_00: so instead of like the pie being static and being the ratios of who owns what being changed the pie is going to get larger and there'll be a healthy mix of both human and autonomous drivers that extends the longevity of human drivers for another five years but i still see this going to an eventual point in which we're not driving but it sounds like that'll take ah i just want to go

Chamath Palihapitiya: faster jason you're probably right there's a group of people who will never drive in an autonomous

SPEAKER_04: car it might be a third of people ultimately just do not want to be an autonomous car i think it's that high yeah sure i mean huh how many people do you know who will like refuse to get a smartphone for 20 years how many people do you know who refuse to do email or get an instagram account i mean it took yeah those things took 10 20 years to boil the laggards and finally push them into it

SPEAKER_08: this week in startups is brought to you by vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast twist listeners can get a thousand dollars off for limited time at vanta.com twist squarespace turn your idea into a new website go to squarespace.com twist for a free trial when you're ready to launch use offer code twist to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain and brex the financial stack founders can bank on unlike traditional business banking solutions brex has no minimums and no transaction fees and you get 20 times the standard fdic protection get the business account trusted by one in three startups at brex.com banking dash solutions all right everybody welcome back to this

SPEAKER_09: week in startups i'm your host jason calacanis with me uh alex wilhelm and uh we do this three days a week

SPEAKER_13: monday wednesday friday 12 o'clock texas time i'm out here in the hill country at austin tech big docket there's a lot going on so we'll do a little big tech a little medium tech and uh some tiny tech as well breaking news as we're sitting here oh and before we start i just wanted to uh broadcast broadcaster everybody knows in the tech community and may or may not agree with his positions on certain topics uh scott adams he is a vocal trump supporter and podcaster he does a daily show and as a broadcaster just unbelievably consistent an iron man 365 days a year christmas thanksgiving he just i'm in awe of the effort he puts it now i was on his show we had a little debate before the election and uh he is super brilliant when it comes to specific topics uh he's got great insights and um tragically he has uh the same cancer that joe biden has and it's terminal prostate bone cancer or prostate cancer spread to the bones and uh yeah my dad has prostate cancer he survived for many years and he's still alive and thriving few scott adams broadcaster to broadcaster and as a guest on

SPEAKER_18: your show and uh friends online who trade dms once in a while you did a great job and uh what an epic life creating dilbert and your podcast and you inspired a lot of people with your books and i always tell people inside my company or startups hey systems over goals and i was always a systems guy from the early days doing lotus notes alex and trying to make processes but i never added that part like oh people have goals but they don't create systems and i heard him say that over and over again and i was like oh yeah i'm a systems guy but i never told people why the system is important and you know systems are important because if you create a good system the goals take care of themselves and he has really helped a lot of folks without knowing it the people who are founders or who work for me people i touch i always tell them hey listen create a system for that i understand your goal goal is pretty clear you want to reach a million customers what's the system by which you'll you'll collect those customers and get them to not turn have you created any systems around those i don't know what

SPEAKER_13: you're talking about and i explained it to them yeah he says he's gonna die this summer and it just got me thinking my gosh we do all this broadcasting we touch a lot of people and i just wanted to let him know he touched me uh yeah and have a great final lap and what a great life lived dilbert touched so many people you got a little uh bumpy there along the way he got canceled there was a lot of uh brouhaha he had spicy opinions but none of that matters at the end of the day i think the totality of the person

SPEAKER_15: matters and their intent matters and i always thought his intent was to help people he kind

SPEAKER_20: of raised me in a way because i read so much dilbert growing up i had like like a stack of like

SPEAKER_22: the compendiums yeah sure and i i learned words like paradigm from him because i thought it was pronounced paradigm because i never said it out loud so i used that word out in the public once and

SPEAKER_00: got got wrecked um but i used to be like the world's biggest dilbert fan and then i kind of grew out of my comic book space but like i read thousands of his of his strips and even though i don't agree with him at all politically anymore there's an impactful person who touched the law of the world with his art uh we don't have to only judge someone in the last act of their life and

SPEAKER_23: what who cares about political differences at the end of the day right like it's uh it's a team sport everybody it's like a blood sport uh so yeah anyway yeah broadcaster broadcaster what a career

SPEAKER_13: what a career all right what's in the news i know there's a breaking news story i don't know if you

SPEAKER_00: want to start yeah let's let's just get that out of the way so as we were sitting down and literally hitting go everybody we saw a headline from bloomberg which is that open ai is going to buy johnny ive's company love from for 6.5 billion dollars this is an all-stock transaction and if you don't know johnny ive he's the guy behind a lot of the kind of iconic maybe even seminal apple products jason known for his design sense uh understanding of aesthetics and usability and the thought here as far as i can tell from the last couple minutes is that he was working on some hardware for the ai game and what does open ai do well some of the book is the most popular models out there so put the two together and you could see a very interesting hardware device from open ai just given how far apple has dropped the ball on hardware ai integration compared to just for example this week google and android this is actually very exciting to me my first thought was yuck what a waste of money do you really need this it's a lot but then if they nail it what's the value of the iphone today for apple it's it's like what oh i mean it is it is the company yeah so i

SPEAKER_13: mean i'd say it's 80 of the value of the of apple is the iphone right it's got to be 90 of the profits

SPEAKER_36: or something along those lines you know taking out like maybe the google deal yeah love now or love

SPEAKER_04: from is it love from love from love from yes yeah uh and uh you know that was his design studio so he was doing jobs for other people no pun intended so he was kind of acting like for any startup that wanted to do something and i think everybody realizes there'll be a pendant a physical device that incorporates ai and maybe creates a new format most people think it's glasses i just got the um the ray-bans from facebook and i see google's coming out with their new glasses that will be augmented and i'm just going to play with them over the summer on vacation take some videos etc with the kids thought it would be a fun thing to experiment with and so this is very interesting i bet you johnny ive is going to make more from this than he is from his tenure at apple it's two percent of the

SPEAKER_13: company he's basically getting and you have to ask yourself as a founder will johnny ive's designs

SPEAKER_04: make open ai two percent more successful that's the bet you're making when you give them six billion dollars and i'm i'm certain it's not six billion in cash i'm sure it's five all stock according to bloomberg yeah i was about to say i mean i could see like a hundred million dollars or 250 million dollars in cash or something if they got cash laying around but i think he believes probably correctly that it could be a trillion dollar company so if he gets six billion now and it triples it could this could be an 18 billion dollar opportunity and 18 billion dollars is a lot of money so congratulations johnny ive and his team over there and i i think this was a more of a collaborative um organization i don't know how many employees there are on linkedin for love from as a company or if they're even allowed to put themselves yeah that was my my thought i don't

SPEAKER_43: know if that's going to be the right number well i mean the the really interesting thing i think about

SPEAKER_04: this is you're you're making some sort of a bet and if you think in bets as um andy duke would say

SPEAKER_18: in the poker world thinking in bats is her book you know what are the odds that johnny ive doesn't make the company one percent more valuable i think it's zero low yeah yeah i mean he's got to make the company one percent more valuable now what are the chances he makes it ten percent more valuable that's that's probably not going to happen so the truth might lie between one and three percent four percent more valuable to have the world's greatest designer of the last 30 years or one of the top five certainly uh on your team focused only on the chat gpt app or a piece of hardware i was at dinner the other night and somebody had one of those pendants and it was on and he showed it to me he showed me the app and he said do you have a problem with it on i'm like at dinner i said if you weren't my friend i would punch you in the face if i found out halfway through dinner you were recording me the whole time no when we sat down it was on and creating summaries and you know i had my friend adeo from founders institute you know he also was wearing that life pin remember the life pin that would take a picture every second and then you have life casting just a piece of advice man do not wear the stuff around your friends if you want to have friends in the world honestly if somebody were to record me like that now i assume as a micro celebrity which is the form of celebrity alex that exists below the lowest rated reality show that just got canceled so that's d list and then you're kind

SPEAKER_54: of like bringing up the pinnacle of the e-list okay precisely precisely i am the tip of the spear of the e-list uh and the d-list would be like yeah bravo or e-network just real housewives of x yeah

SPEAKER_57: well no that would be a successful one i'm talking about one that got canceled after one season uh oh man yeah that's where the podcasting tech celebrity exists all right founders i know you're

SPEAKER_60: building something amazing and you're going to change the world and now hey the big logos they're taking your calls right but here's the catch if you're not sock two or iso 27001 compliant these deals won't close now some of you are saying i've never heard of those terms some of you're saying i've heard of them but i don't know what they are and that's where vanta comes in they're going to be your partner and they are the all-in-one compliance solution that helps startups get audit ready and that's going to build a strong security foundation for your company which you want but they're going to do it quickly and painlessly vanta automates the manual security tasks that slow you down and that streamlines your audit so here's your call to action whether you're closing your first deal or you're gearing up for growth vanta is going to make compliance easy for you join over 8 000 companies simplify your compliance and get a thousand dollars off at vanta.com twist

SPEAKER_37: that's v-a-n-t-a.com twist yeah don't wear these things folks it's absurd you know even in a zoom call you know i now have to think that every zoom call i have is recorded so now you know sometimes i'm out here on the ranch and i just did something you know i mowed the grass or you know i went to feed the chickens and i'm disheveled or i did a workout in the barn i assume i'm being recorded so

SPEAKER_18: then in terms of zooms now sometimes i'll just say yeah i'm not going to be on camera today because it's enough with the on-camera stuff and then i'm like maybe somebody's recording this and like i look disheveled i don't need a recording of me on a board call or whatever and then i see people recording their board calls by the way port calls are not intended to be summarized by ai or recorded talk to your counsel but you're supposed to just take very top level notes so you don't open yourself up to discovery in a lawsuit where you know when you have an uh an opposing attorney with an axe to grind and they had a transcript they could just twist somebody's words around as you've seen when people are on this and who have had a phone call recorded or something so anyway the always on recording stuff and those designs are really pernicious and i think we are going to have laws around them which will be similar to guns so in texas people can request that you don't have a gun on their property and you can put up a specific type of sign that they're not allowed to and i think it can be like you get a penalty if you went on somebody's property who has that specific type of sign that they don't want you on private property good point is we need that analogy for recording devices there needs to be a standard it should be a federal standard of recording devices in public

SPEAKER_13: spaces and although the assumption is you're being recorded there needs to be a penalty for this there needs to be new legislation it needs to be reasonable but it should be a bright blinking red light if you've taken a photo in the last 30 seconds and before you take a photo so if photo 15 second warning of a blinking red light before the photo is taking 15 seconds after if in public maybe that's reasonable i don't know or maybe it it blinks three times or something so this is uh what

SPEAKER_22: it looks like on the meta ray bonds jason just going to show everyone this so they can get kind of a feel

SPEAKER_00: for it but i really want to talk about the title of this video which is can you hide the blinking light on the ray-ban meta glasses and i believe the answer this is yes so let's hope that we don't have to get

SPEAKER_63: to the point of legislation for this and we can sort it out even in that picture that white light see they

SPEAKER_18: made it white which is like yeah zuckerberg once again and when you look at some of these pictures like

SPEAKER_04: it really doesn't feel like a very strong light that's being lit in my personal estimation it should be red and it should stay on when you're recording here's another example this one from our dear friend

SPEAKER_00: lon who is slightly under the weather today we love you lon feel better soon this is a little better to

SPEAKER_22: me jason i think this is the snap spectacles yeah this is but this is the yellow rim and i can see that

SPEAKER_13: be a little bit why not in your face there's a reason they're trying to get people away from the universal red that means recording there's a reason it's blaring red because people don't want

David Friedberg: to be recorded so i think there's going to have to be legislation because the first two people up the

SPEAKER_00: hill are not doing a good enough job bringing this back to johnny ive though and open ai is it's actually really fun i was reading hacker news um as i always do and there was an interesting discussion about open ai's new codex coding agent and i was reading the reviews in the conversation about it because i thought we might talk about on the show at some point in time love to get the developer perspective people who are actually testing this stuff who know what they're doing and what really kind of struck me was the ux was criticized and so i wonder if a little bit of johnny ive magic across the open ai organization might help them file off some of those kind of rough edges and just help make all their products work a little bit better because the johnny ive era of apple

SPEAKER_74: is famous for a reason jason like it's an earned reputation from a lot of them really just great

SPEAKER_04: work the way they do what they do the secret was they would make many design ideas in a studio and then steve jobs would come and have a discussion with him and go have lunch with him or whatever

SPEAKER_09: so they'd be like here's a table filled with pendants and the pendant team is working on this apple never released a pendant here's the team working on televisions they famously were going

SPEAKER_04: to release a television i had heard that that was like a fait accompli that they were going to release it and then they never did for whatever reason they just released the box for apple tv long story short 99 of what johnny ive did there with this incredible design team never saw the light of day it was all an exercise and then they would just skim the cream most startups you know

SPEAKER_18: designs an afterthought they make a bunch of stuff and then they produce it so you really basically have to produce 10 times what you need and then skim the cream of the best that's my best advice

SPEAKER_65: for design let's keep going through the docket here i want to talk about brex and zip so brex jason i

SPEAKER_00: think we all probably know is a corporate spin startup famous for their corporate cards that were startup friendly back in the day they bought out all the bus stops in san francisco big buzz low budget now quite a large company there's another firm called zip and i was less familiar with zip turns out it's actually worth about two billion dollars and what they do is corporate procurement orchestration which is very fancy words for helping companies buy stuff and pay for it without losing track of po's making sure it's going to the right budget if you're a large company that buys a lot of stuff it's actually a pretty big deal so the the news item here is that brex has teamed up with zip instead of competing with them directly and they do have some shared customers so there's some overlap but it does feel kind of interesting to see brex a company that i think is worth more than 10 billion partnered with nivon previously uh trip actions which is you know kind of like corporate travel management if you will and now with zip who also kind of overlaps a little bit with them i'm still very bullish on brex and its competitor ramp but i'm kind of this almost feels like politeness and kindness inside the storefront world startup world versus combatedness i just kind

SPEAKER_15: of wanted to get your take on why brex is making yeah some people understand they have a lane and they want to stay in that lane and be the best at that and then let other people plug in as a platform so

SPEAKER_04: the example of that might be in today's market doordash doesn't do cloud kitchens cloud kitchens travis's new company provides cloud kitchens those people who uh rent space in a cloud kitchen then they go put their food on doordash direct websites increasingly and uh on uber eats postmates whatever and so in each of those cases cloud kitchen saying you know what there's enough work to do here we don't need to compete with doordash and uber eats uber eats and doordash are like we don't want to be in that business that's going to be a lot of work to stand up all these things and traffic is going to do a better job so you know if you stay in your lane you can create a lot of partnerships and get to market quicker the the best example today would be that one or what's happening in self-driving cars with uber tesla and volswagon etc so way most like we make this stuff we have an app but suddenly they were like well we have an app but uber's got you know 20 000 cities and 150 million or 250 million customers whatever it is and 30 million of them are uber one we we don't need to recreate the wheel here let's have them let's go into their distribution system their network and then uber sold famously big question if they should have still juries out they sold their autonomous because they

SPEAKER_18: said hey there's going to be 15 providers of autonomous to be a commoditized service it turns out it is going to be a commoditized service now there is a chance never bet against elon that he will

SPEAKER_13: create this robo taxi the specific two-door one and be able to produce 10 million of those a year and he will take the number one position that's that's possible some people might say probable

SPEAKER_18: there's a big bet going on will uber having volswagon the number two car maker waymo the number one leader in this waymo providing to toyota toyota pro you know providing here well that whole consortium where everybody does their best work beat you know somebody who's a verticalized player time will tell i i think in this case it will not be winner take all it will be three winners take most and those three winners will be waymo tesla and uber that's my belief and then i think there'll be mergers and acquisitions in it so that's probably what's happening here is brex is like you know what we have enough work to do here that we don't want to do the corporate back end let them do the corporate back end they don't want to do corporate cards then they could go to everybody say hey we're not in

SPEAKER_04: your business but we are in this business do you want to partner with us when people are in your software they can click this button to create an account with us you'll get credit for that when

SPEAKER_13: they're in our software they can click over to you we'll get credit for that and they will probably

SPEAKER_18: monitor account creation and then say together we can beat other people who are trying to full stack it

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SPEAKER_00: twist the cross-selling element of this makes perfect sense to me yeah my question is kind of what comes next so brex was last raised at seven uh valued at 7.4 billion sorry everybody not over 10 and then zip was valued at 2.4 billion post if this partnership goes well jason is there a heightened

SPEAKER_65: chance that they decide to link up kind of like um coda and grammarly did does this this is a first

SPEAKER_13: step in the process or just a potential yeah i don't know if code and grammarly had a um a partnership previously but if they did yeah that could be what we call a partnership to purchase so with weblogs inc i started a partnership discussion with aol and jim bankoff who was like evp of whatever at aol at the

SPEAKER_18: time and they wanted blog software maybe they wanted gadgets inventory they were going to make a small investment and then after like but six weeks of discussing this ted leon says call me on the phone said my greek brother i'm going to make you very rich and uh your family's going to be taken

SPEAKER_04: care of forever we're buying your whole company gonna be great for you and i said thank you mr leon

SPEAKER_13: says and and you know that was that so yes uh and that's why being a good partner and being

SPEAKER_04: professional in partnership uh is a better way to pursue m a than you know asking to be bought so if you solve a major problem for a major player then they will in the partnership say wow what a great

SPEAKER_79: management team oh great engineering team oh product design is great we don't have that which by the way

SPEAKER_18: open ai was with johnny ivor previous story working with him and then bought the company and then bought the company so there it is that was a uh you know consulting deal that resulted in a purchase right so that was partnership to purchase in the previous story this is an awful lot of announced m and a two companies bought by doordash two companies bought by open ai right they bought where they're

SPEAKER_79: in the process of buying we told them not to buy it that the company doing a programming uh

SPEAKER_04: copa windsurf windsurf yeah something's happening here i think since trump gave up on his

SPEAKER_18: or folded or slowed down his slowed his role yeah that's why i'll it's i don't trigger any of the tds people in the audience the trump dedication syndrome sufferers we have both in this audience trump derangement and trump dedication syndrome we're in the middle here uh he stopped barrel rolling the plane known as america the american economy and all of a sudden m a is back so this is great i think this is why we're starting to see the stock market come back i think this will be amazing for venture firms who two out of three went out of business and this is why i haven't given up on venture i'm like i think that this is where venture capitalists are made when you're forced to survive four years four years of no m and n that's gonna make you if you get to the other side of it that's like going to the new world alex like you know everybody went on these ships people didn't bring enough lemons they didn't have the resiliency they went crazy jumped off the ship got eaten by sharks scurvy cannibalism whatever and we'll see who's left after this you know uh boom bust cycle it's it's kind of like a pond where the fish get too big they eat all the small fish then there's not enough fish to eat the algae goes away you have these boom bust cycles in nature that's just what happened in venture and startup land the startups don't have to worry about it because they can always raise money venture has been you know this is the ice age that's probably the best analogy we're lift or who survives the ice age right now right and i can tell you i'm sitting here with like a lot of uh saber-toothed tigers you know coming at me and woolly mammoth pelts around our team trying to stay warm while we wait for dpi to arrive and sure enough the secondary markets have started to wake up

SPEAKER_04: hey are you interested in buying more of this company are you interested in selling some of this company the prices are anywhere from a flat to 90 discount of the peak but transactions are occurring

SPEAKER_89: so green shoots folks just uh understand just in 90 lower than the peak or 90 of the peak 90 lower than

SPEAKER_04: the peak so if somebody had a let's say a two billion dollar valuation they might be a 200 300 400 500 million dollar offer for the common shares of those companies why the employees selling common are behind the preference stack so the preference stack might be what the company sells for if they raise too much money that whole conversation of did you raise too much money and is that are you ever going to get

SPEAKER_79: past the preference stack and what happens to comment that's literally what's happening now quite

SPEAKER_00: literally okay let's keep moving let's talk about waymo reaching 10 million paid rights i think this is very important waymo is a company that sits kind of in between the public and private markets but certainly is one of the leading kind of american ai companies and jason the latest news from them is that they have reached 10 million rides and the reason why i think that matters is not just the big round number that we all love but because they did half of that in the last five months which implies about a million rides a month that are paid which to me is like real commercial viability because i have not heard a resurgence in waymo runs over your dog or whatever so it seems to me that as this ramps up the technology really must be maturing to the point which they can take on this much volume which frankly i think bodes well for elon and company because if the tech has gotten this far

SPEAKER_04: maybe it's the right time to do something bigger the real question is how different are these two technologies and how big of a part is lidar in waymo's success and how big a part of tesla's success is their generalized driving technology waymo started with constrained areas and really trying to solve a constrained area problem where they were let's just say bespoke solutions right uh in a lot of cases for how to deal with this traffic circle now large language models and reinforcement learning and just generalized ai is the route eon has gone without lidar and so that's the big question that's a lot of hand-wringing and elon restated yesterday hey we're gonna have these austin testing units out at the end of the month wisely um it seems there will be safety drop remote drivers so that's unclear uh if those people will be one-to-one in other words there'll be somebody sitting there with a joystick like literally with a nintendo joystick or a steering wheel at tesla hq one-to-one

SPEAKER_18: just so there's not somebody in the car so you get the feeling of a waymo but there's literally somebody in an office somewhere driving it now waymo says we don't do that we will when there's a problem tell the ai how to solve the problem so if the ai was stuck because it's behind an ambulance they say okay is there ability to make a u-turn here is the ability is there an extra lane to go around it is there you know whatever uh and sometimes they will draw from what i understand a line of which way it should go oh that's cool in this case i think tesla's going with the because they're all 5g cars lte a driver but the latency is there so you know this is going to be a very consequential month i would say july will be the consequential month it's only opening up 10 cars to 20 cars with uh in a closed beta this is also a very smart decision if i was advising elon and i am not or tesla writ large which i am not i would have put the safety driver in for the first year just so regular for the whole year i would just say listen you're going to get in the car there's going to be a person there you're going to watch them use the software they're not going to touch the wheel but if something does happen where you know a little kitty uh you know or a you know a baseball and a football soccer ball goes running into the street we're going to take over just out of an abundance of caution and you get to talk to the person and they'll explain to you the virtues of the model y of which i just ordered my second model y which will be oh you're going to get the

Chamath Palihapitiya: uh the updated juniper update yeah the new one with a light beam on the back so uh yeah congratulations

SPEAKER_04: to waymo this is going to have zero impact on the drivers uh now why would i say that right because you already have like a certain number of rides in san francisco are being done by waymo i have a new

SPEAKER_13: theory based on data i think what we're going to see is the same number or a growing driver base of

SPEAKER_04: humans for years while the autonomous ones get put into the market and we're going to see the humans do

SPEAKER_13: the routes that the autonomous ones can't so ubers and lyfts will be coming to the suburbs more doing you know so it'll expand the area of ride sharing what's that going to do people in the suburbs who couldn't wait 15 minutes for a ride uh get it down to five they're going to start using it and they're

SPEAKER_122: going to start using it for commutes as a founder you can't be putting business expenses on your personal card oh my god that's a disaster you should be taking those as business expenses and paying for them with pre-taxed dollars brex has built the killer banking experience which will take your dollars further they're going to protect your cash while extending your startup's runway it's not just the brex card although people are over the moon i'm literally looking at my new brex card right now amazing all the other great banking things you need a checking account treasury and of course fdic insurance nearly 40 of startups fail because they run out of cash 100 of startups cannot afford to make financial mistakes it's hard enough to get product market fit so get a great banking

SPEAKER_126: partner like brex that's the one i use 20 times the standard fdic protection through program banks industry-leading yield on your cash yeah earn a little cheddar what your beak and the ability for you to send money worldwide at lightning speed brex is used by one in every three u.s startups so get the financial stack that founders trust including me your boy jacal at brex.com

SPEAKER_18: banking dash solutions and that's going to be super powerful at the last uber uh demo day they did a

SPEAKER_13: week or two ago they have a new system where you can say this is my commute this is the time i leave and then it sends you active alerts hey um if you're gonna if you normally leave between 7 30 and 7 45 here's the cost the cost is going up the cost is going down and this is when you should leave so

SPEAKER_18: they created this like very elegant product for daily commuters which means uber believes daily commutes are coming the second thing is many parents are sending their kids to school in waymos now i think what we're going to see is autonomy takes over the city centers 50 60 70 percent of that in the next couple years moving the other drivers out the other drivers move out and get more rides that move faster that'll net net make them as much money because they'll be long so so instead of like

SPEAKER_00: the pie being static and being the ratios of who owns what being changed the pie is going to get larger and there'll be a healthy mix of both human and autonomous drivers that extends the longevity of human drivers for another five years but i still see this going to an eventual point in which we're not driving but it sounds like that'll take ah i just want to go faster jason you're probably right

SPEAKER_04: there's a group of people who will never drive in an autonomous car it might be a third of people ultimately just do not want to be an autonomous car i think it's that high yeah sure i mean huh how many people do you know who will like refuse to get a smartphone for 20 years how many people do you know who refuse to do email or get an instagram account i mean it took yeah those things took 10 20 years to boil the laggards and finally push them into it like if you're a laggard the only reason you got a smartphone was because there were some things you could not do like it literally like you couldn't get an uber on a flip phone so there was this like there were use cases that forced people into it

SPEAKER_13: so eventually there will be a use case that forces people into it all right let's keep going um so in

SPEAKER_102: the same way that we like to see waymo and tesla competing to grow the market improve the products

SPEAKER_00: i'm also very excited to see that microsoft has added x ai's grok models to their azure ai foundry business which is essentially the place where you can run models on top of azure's compute systems uh the reason why this is important to me jason is because i feel like open ai deep sea and anthropic to a small degree in google which we'll get to uh just control too much of the market i want to see more players more competition more steel on steel and so to see microsoft say we're going to host every major commercial model period to me just speaks well for at once having lots of competitors and also to people having the option to pick and choose and tinker you're not locked in to just one

SPEAKER_136: thing this is also has to speak to the chat gpt open ai relationship you know if you're running azure you need to support everything obviously and if you're satya nadella uh you probably want to have a strong relationship with elon in the chance that his model becomes better than chat gpt's which is a significant chance i'd be betting against elon has been a fool's errand for a long time so he's definitely going to be number one two or three and you know that could flip so keep your relationships open why would you limit yourself to having a relationship with just the top you know model

SPEAKER_74: right now it's just topsy-turvy to me like i remember so vividly the era of microsoft that

SPEAKER_00: was like anti-open source didn't want to work with other people wanted to crush all markets and now satya is like we want everybody to come party with us come on in okay let's keep moving so the senate just advanced the stable coin build the genius act now this is not passed yet we'll get to that in a second but the context for everyone here is just this if you take a look at the chart that i have on the screen this is from our friends over at defi llama it shows the current aggregate market cap or just value of all the stable coins out there in the world today and it peaked in early 2022 and then entered kind of a long trough jason and that was a bit dispiriting for folks like myself who thought the stable coins were awesome and we're going to have a big future things have dramatically changed since kind of early 2024 and now there's about 250 billion dollars worth of stables out there really great growth over the last year and a half very positive and i think that's really pushing congress to get its act together now on the compromise point there was dissension in the ranks for both uh democrats and republicans the gop lost a couple of votes democrats lost more mostly over concerns about the trump family and their crypto efforts but what matters is that and we can always debate about the fine points here but the big picture is we're going to probably get a strong industry friendly set of regulations for having stable coins here in the us and that means that i think every single technology company is going to be able to spin up their own stable and there'll be

SPEAKER_74: some sort of liquidity between them all and so they'll be fungible but it's going to be kind of interesting to see every company managing so people didn't want to do it because they were

SPEAKER_37: concerned about the trump meme coin or trump's family's connections to stable coins that was the

SPEAKER_04: reason or was it because they didn't have other uh nuances in this legislation around tether and

SPEAKER_140: offshore and know your customer what was the actual reason people dissented do we know i think it's it's

SPEAKER_102: not just one answer i think some people are anti-crypto and i would loosely put elizabeth warren

SPEAKER_00: senator uh into that group some people felt that the world liberty financial stablecoin deal to fund binance from was it the uae uh was indicative of that stable coins need to have more structure and

SPEAKER_144: stability around how they're regulated and that sort of connection shouldn't be allowed but i think also just some bad blood there between democrats and the trump family the key thing here is that

SPEAKER_13: american companies based in america that have a big four accounting firm auditing them as opposed

SPEAKER_18: to tether which has had attestations and i guess howard lutnik previous firm uh kantor fitzgerald is trying to work with them to clean things up i'm interpreting maybe their involvement in it uh and i think a lot of this has to do with lutnik and tether that's not being spoken about here but in my estimation howard lutnik stands to have massive gains at his firm now i don't know if he's sheltered from them because he's part of the administration or cabinet i guess so who i don't know the exact details there but i do think there's probably democrats as well looking at the tether issue and they had that congressional hearing i believe where tether was sort of taken to task because of the attestations the history of the firm and then how people are using the stable coins if stable coins are going to exist i think we should not allow offshore companies to operate without an onshore entity without a board without insurance without regulation it should be an on-shoring american only so this genius act which i don't know and i have some questions about that maybe we can answer in the next episode or the audience can help us out with i really want to understand offshore companies i really want to understand

SPEAKER_04: you know your customer and how people use these of course the tethers of the world will claim well we can track how people use them but you know typically when people burn their tethers and they've they've traded them 10 times yes there's a trail but whoever was at the start of that trail is long gone and absconded and done human trafficking terrorism etc there needs to be very tight regulations on who's trading stable coins how they're trading them know your customer and that's really the offshoring i want to understand that's the details that needs to be in this genius act that i don't

SPEAKER_00: think are there's a little bit of a weirdness that we should talk about because when we think about the genius act which by the way if you don't know stands for the guiding and establishing national innovation for us stable coins act which is the most hilarious background ever there's kind of two tiers of regulation jason there's stable coins that have more than 10 billion aum so 10 million like one dollar units on the market and if you're over that level you're privy to the federal regulations if you're under that state level or you can choose that my concern is that some states may have overly loose standards to attract smaller stable coins and that we could then run into some of the kyc offshore just the stuff that we don't want to see pollute the usd ecosystem because most stables are usd backed and so forth so i i almost wonder a little bit about the distinction between big stables and little stables and the different regulatory regimes they go into under i'm also sympathetic to it because less regulation for smaller products makes sense but when it comes to

SPEAKER_13: finance it gets sticky so interesting i have been pushing for regulation over and over again for years that there should be a safe harbor for small projects and then increasing regulation as they get bigger

SPEAKER_04: and you know who's permitted to do this and the audits and transparency are the details we're going to need and you know i think there's some certification and people putting their names on things and outside auditors putting their names on things that has not happened with tether you know i don't want to see like tether previous was like here's an attestation from i don't know

SPEAKER_151: if it was like the bvi or something like that virgin islands it was like hey guys if this isn't done in new york by ernston young or kpmg i'm not interested like and it this whole attestation thing as

SPEAKER_18: explained to me was like by accountants and people online was like it's like here we took a picture of a bank statement essentially we we know there was money in account but we don't know all the underlying transactions and how you got there yeah these things need to be regulated there needs to be feds in inside your office looking at these transactions all the time in detail yes there's way too much

SPEAKER_13: it's just way too dangerous to have this be the wild west anymore and you know what for tether that's making you know tens of billions of dollars a year on the float that business is going to collapse

SPEAKER_04: because there's also regulation this is a little bit detailed um you they want you to be able to buy stable coins and then share the interest with you on them so an interest-bearing stable coin account is the next piece of dialogue you'll start hearing because i was talking to some people off the record and they're like short tether they're not literally short tether but they're short theoretically tether because instead of your tether is making five six seven percent whatever it is off these treasuries and other devices they have with people's deposits what happens when you say i'll give you five percent i'll keep one point you get five points i get one point well why would you ever use tether yeah so you'll have 85 percent contraction in the revenue generated here which is what should happen like what idiots are the only people who would leave like a billion dollars in a stable coin are probably people and let tether take five percent to make 50 million on that are probably people who have some shaky relationship in their transactions that's my interpretation and i'm no expert but this industry needs to get cleaned

SPEAKER_13: up uh and of course when you hear people and i'll end on this yeah yeah alex whenever you hear people

SPEAKER_151: saying well criminals do this and this i mean you can bring a suitcase with hundred dollar bills whenever you hear people talking about like how criminals do stuff and that's a justification for them being marginally better than them those people are typically criminals oh yes yes it's a experience i'm not saying tether's criminals i'm just saying in my experience the people who are like you know

SPEAKER_57: there's criminals who have done far worse i'm like probably should get a magnifying glass on whoever said that jason we need to talk about polymark we have a partnership bet that i want to talk about

SPEAKER_159: and a partnership too so why don't you uh walk us into this and then i'm going to pull up some really

SPEAKER_18: cool data i love polymarket i i can't stop thinking in bets shane from polymark is a friend of mine we decided to do an exciting partnership here which is i'm constantly talking about the odds of something happening as a poker player that's how i see the world right and we just had a conversation about this earlier in the show so what i asked the team here to do is to integrate a market into the show now i don't know which ones i asked the team to go there and surprise me with a couple of markets

SPEAKER_00: so hit me hit me with a market uh here from polymarket this is what i was absolutely fixated by this is the the market for which company has the best ai model on june 30th so the midpoint of this year and if you're watching the video version as you can see the people that have taken the lead recently are google but if you go back in time just in just a little bit you're seeing earlier this year open ai far ahead now google has absolutely soared and i think this is partially because the gemini model family has improved quickly i think google has really managed to build out a series of technology products in the ai realm that people are impressed with yes and you know they just had their google io event this week and they started talking about their new oh man what the hell is it google gemini pro ultra max whatever that's supposed to be quite impressive but the market here has essentially given open ai and xai the same chance jason of having the best

SPEAKER_144: model on june 30th which is low and anthropic is basically zero so google yeah here's a great idea

SPEAKER_13: go take a look at the rules uh this market will resolve to yes if any model owned by google has the highest

SPEAKER_18: arena square based off the chatbot arena llm leaderboard so when making these markets they resolve how you resolve a market is critically important and we've been doing them on all in

SPEAKER_136: we have a partnership over there as well uh so you just have to when we look at these or we're going

SPEAKER_04: to create some of our own so i think an interesting one would be to do on self-driving and uber pretty interesting and then if you start thinking about who has the most robo taxis on the market by the end of 2026 or 2025 if you did that waymo is going to win so you maybe would say who outside of waymo will have the most number of robo taxis or the largest number of cities right you can come with something and then you say how many cities will uber have robo taxis on the ground at and today you know you have the we ride folks pony ai waymo and then volswag is coming and then you have to define robo taxi with the driver with the safety driver or not and so i would like to know just even with

SPEAKER_18: safety drivers how many different cities you have that's like a very interesting wager uh it's a very interesting market i should say and as a market what's interesting about that is then people could say well yeah i mean maybe point maybe waymo is going to just go very wide but not deep or maybe uber is going to go really wide not deep you know you kind of start to have to think about things in order to pick which uh outcome you think is going to happen the reason these outcome markets are very interesting to me is if you had a large position in uber you could place a wager you could pick a side that would be uber not winning which would then hedge you against your uber stock or if you were a tesla shareholder and you were like okay tesla has a million you know cars on the road next year what are the chances of that happening if you bet against it but your tesla shareholder and they don't hit it and the share goes down or tesla's flat you would win this bet right so you could place a

SPEAKER_13: wager i don't know exactly how they phrase these but you could pick which outcome and when you pick

SPEAKER_04: which outcome that could be a hedge against other things happening this is what people were doing with climate and climate change farmers would do this oh if there's going to be a frost there's a five percent of chance of a frost i will put some money in that five percent chance so if i lose if it's a one in twenty and my you know i have a million dollars in oranges coming and there's an orange frost i'll put fifty thousand dollars on it if my oranges freeze i still make the same amount of money

SPEAKER_171: it's fifty thousand dollars in insurance it's interesting how a wager on an outcome can have

SPEAKER_00: the same vibes as an insurance policy and also a hedge because it feels like you just went through several different ways you can kind of approach this now we did talk about how the ma the market we showed resolved i want to show everyone what we're talking about so it's using the lm arena uh leaderboard which is actually really really cool so take a look at this jason this is the new uh ui for the el marino leaderboard but you can see why google's currently leading on the market because well they're crushing everywhere they're on top of the leaderboard for text for web dev vision search not copilot but text image etc so very very very strong models from google today and i brought up the elmarino jason not just because it's cool as a data source but also bloomberg reports that the company we talked about them spinning out making their own kind of actual company about this turns out they've gotten around put together and it's going to be 100 million wow because of course it is uh andrewson horowitz the uc system and then also some capital from lightspeed felices kleiner and others valuation take a guess i mean 750 million 600 but still that's a lot of money 15

SPEAKER_04: yeah i i i thought well 20 might be a lot you know that'd be a billion dollars 500 500 by 20 10 percent would be a billion i just picked in between those two numbers but remember when instagram sold

SPEAKER_65: for a billion and we all kind of collectively crapped our pants different era like different era man

SPEAKER_04: different different number of people online different amount of revenue per person different amount of e-commerce spend per person yeah everything just keeps growing 30 10 a year there's big prizes here and if you place a bet and we don't know what the actual pitch is under this okay any uh startup stuff i think there was a couple of startup items here where people ask me questions or i answer them rapid response maybe i'm with one or two of them and again when we do reddit rapid response i don't know ahead of time the question but i am jason calacanis uh on so i'm you slash jason calacanis on reddit follow me say hi dm me whatever and go look for me answering questions in anti-work i love anti-work i love engaging with people who hate capitalism

SPEAKER_13: because i want to convert them in some ways but i also want to understand their hatred of free markets competition and capitalism just helps me sharpen my position yeah a secret vegan going to the barbecue

SPEAKER_74: that's jason in anti-work yes all right uh so from from lawn and the r slash startups subreddit i

SPEAKER_00: absolutely love that place i read it every single day there's a great question that i think we should talk about so okay how can i build a marketplace from scratch jason people talk a lot about the chicken and the egg problem how to get early momentum going they want to know what's the best way to launch a marketplace i know you're supposed to have supplied before launching probably do that but i'm not sure about how to reach the first customers apart from people they know so for the reddit user elon jr musk what you got this person answered their own question when doordash

SPEAKER_04: started they picked one or two restaurants in palo alto they put up phony websites they bought some ads and sent people to this i think indian restaurant if the story is correct then they took their personal credit card ordered from the indian restaurant picked it up with their personal credit card and then ran to the person's house and dropped it off and the person thought okay right they didn't even question it they had no idea that this marketplace was glued together by literally you taking the name of a restaurant let's call it palo alto dosa and they didn't have a website they didn't have online ordering you put up palo alto dosa you put the menu you say pick what you want they you know

SPEAKER_18: vibe coded something or in that case you know actually coded and then they bought ads against it and said indian food palo alto delivery and then finally got somebody to order the order came in they were like

SPEAKER_136: what an order came in and then they went and just called the order in on the phone and got it to

SPEAKER_18: the person so there's your example when you get going you could offer people some amount of a um base guarantee that's a more advanced technique when you have funding perhaps um and you really want to be in a certain geo or certain vertical so let's say you wanted to do all home services painting you know painting cabinets i don't know gardening pool cleaning just start with pool cleaning sure find 10 pool cleaners do phone calls and interviews with them and say i'm making a marketplace for home services pool cleaning is what we're going after i just want to understand what you charge and i was wondering if i could send you the ability to get a customer and i'll text message you the customer what they want and we're trying to achieve 24-hour turnaround if not same day

SPEAKER_136: and we'll pay a premium for that might you be interested in being part of this and they'll be like yeah sure here's my phone number we're done and so that that's how these things all get together

SPEAKER_18: they're done um in ways that don't scale and your friends and your sweat equity are part of that equation yes if you door dash used the four door dash founders as the first four door dashers the end yeah so you are the supply so go clean the pool yourself in this analogy or if you're a banker

SPEAKER_00: go drive uber for a bit to get the deal elon jr musk does talk about in his reddit post the importance of marketing and and so forth and you did touch on the supply side jason but on the demand side when the door dash guys were putting together their ads to get their first couple of orders in uh what do we know about that and what do you recommend for founders today who might be cash strapped that are looking to build out that uh other side of the marketplace yeah i mean it's super easy

SPEAKER_04: you can if you're in a specific geo and a specific vertical you would be surprised how affordable google search ads are uh yeah you could be paying a dollar to a click so you know you might only need a hundred to five hundred dollars to run this test if you can't get a hundred to five hundred dollars together you probably shouldn't be a founder so there's pretty easy ways to do this and of course you could make a mailing list of everybody on your campus and you know test it there if you were doing like the doordash example or delivering people um or doing a laundry service you could you could just find the the first 50 customers amongst your friend group in a neighborhood or you could offer people ten dollars off your you know let's say this is the pool cleaning service you just go on google maps you find everybody's got a pool by looking at satellite photos you literally just see them yes correct you then print out flyers you then hang them on people's doors and slide them under their things and if the person happens to open the door when you say hi i'm an entrepreneur i started this

SPEAKER_79: company please don't kill me and then you get that person 100 as a customer i put a laser printer from

SPEAKER_136: brother for like 150 bucks and paper's free he's like 100 bucks for a thousand pieces of paper you just laser print the offer and you hand sign them say hey my name's jason i'm and alex we've started a new marketplace for pool cleaners we want to save you money and we want it to be on demand and easy breezy just text us if you need your pool serviced uh anytime and we'll put you on a weekly thing and here's the price boom and you can trust us because we live in the area i would say the door hanging flyer thing door to door thing a lot of founders don't do it works uh emailing people next door if you were doing again in a geo next door is a good place to do it because you can find all your neighbors yeah and so once you find all your neighbors you can start messaging them or you can literally just fake it so if your marketplace was a marketplace for again we'll go back to pool cleaning in a geo you can very easily just go in there and say hey i'm looking for a pool cleaner and then alex says i found this great one and you reply to yourself this would be you know in the gray hat area yeah you're not committing a crime but you are doing something that some people would be like is slightly unethical uh i'll say it's clever everything you've said thus far though is

SPEAKER_22: just doing the work the hard way like the doordash folks delivering the food themselves yes going

SPEAKER_00: around the neighborhood passing out flyers i'm getting enough cheap brother laser printer which you can keep until it runs out of ink and you throw it away like i mean none of this is expensive this is

David Friedberg: a thousand dollars two thousand dollars why don't you pick a category for me pick a category of marketplace think about your own life i i picked like food and i picked pools but you pick one that's

SPEAKER_00: kind of random or out there that i wouldn't think one that's near and dear to my heart uh our on uh home visit arborists so we have people that come take care of our trees sure tree marketplace great

SPEAKER_04: if i went onto facebook right now and i typed in arborists or i went to the austin subreddit and i typed in austin uh arborists and uh you know i'm gonna find arborists uh threads and the first one i found in austin was arborists are going to be raking it in no pun intended from two years ago right and i guess this is when they had the big freeze here and a bunch of trees died oh okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh now if i go to facebook and i type in facebook let's do this right now i'm going to do a search here you can do it well jason does that i did the

SPEAKER_00: same test for providence typed in art arborist and i immediately found best arborist in providence which i guarantee you get search traffic yes you could just drop a comment there and get some gorilla

SPEAKER_210: facebook arborists uh brooklyn and you're gonna find arborist of brooklyn and so there's your supply

SPEAKER_18: folks there is a facebook a linkedin a red subreddit for every group and there's message boards and forums so if you append to that you know brooklyn arborist message board back in the day people use these different message boards software you know before facebook and subreddits kind of took it over and you'll find um there's brownstoner this is something in brooklyn that's a message board in brooklyn forum archive tree removal company right so because these things have ranked on google in search or duck duck go in search that means they had some validity so literally that's like having an intern go find those things for you you infiltrate those groups you'll be honest about it like

SPEAKER_136: i was looking for ranch hands and because we're going to probably get a ranch hand here eventually when we get the horses and i had no idea what they get paid and it turns out if you provide them a tiny home there's like an infinite number of people in their 20s who didn't go to college but who love horses who if you if you put them up and give them three squares a day or some food and a thing they'll work for minimum wage to just be around horses it's kind of crazy right like uh ranch hands are pretty affordable horses so they're yeah and and it's a global thing you got people in germany people in australia who just want to be ranch hands they just want to teach horseback riding and uh you know equestrian stuff so i had no idea i did my research just for that in 10 seconds so and i was going to create one for domestic staff uh like estate managers and stuff like that and i never got around

SPEAKER_18: to it but marketplaces are great you can build them with three or four people you can hack the inventory you can hack the supply side and then once you get going then you can say i know i'm going to make a lifetime value of this amount per customer therefore i know how much inventory drives how much

SPEAKER_58: supply and you can do a little bit of math right and those math formulas are online pretty easy for you to figure out jason do we have time for a funny joke about startups before we go sure i mean i'm

SPEAKER_221: alex you're gonna tell a joke okay here we go maybe this is gonna be a dad joke i'm not telling

SPEAKER_00: a joke long found the best thing i've ever seen in my life oh which is this it reads every piece of sass advice ever all at once roll with me here advice goes as follows validate before you build build before you validate launch fast but make sure it's paused don't waste time but also don't rush talk to users but then don't build what they say ship fast but don't break trust cool so i'll just build unbuild relaunch and question my life choices in a nice little loop feels like the advice self contradicts you know what i kind of feel for this person because i've read a lot of sass advice and a

Chamath Palihapitiya: lot of it goes in kind of contrasting directions the reason for this is because people will look back

SPEAKER_04: on a successful startup and they will attribute some technique to the success of the startup when really it was just maybe there was a market need and it just man everybody needs uber or lyft and it's just gonna get sucked up so people think oh it's the mustache on the front of lyft that made them popular i was like well the mustache had nothing to do with it oh it's a talkative driver having character no it was about utility uber's approach so you know in a vacuum you can get all kinds of

SPEAKER_18: advice and my advice to founders is to write it all down and then um you will pick which way you want to do it there are multiple ways to get to the new world some people got to the new world by you know going through the bearing straight right when it was frozen over they would walk across it supposedly and come down into north america other people risk their lives going across

SPEAKER_04: the atlantic many different ways to you know get there and uh some people will have their startup succeed because they build something show it to customers and customers like oh my god i never thought about staying on renting out somebody's house and staying there i always stay at a hotel this air

SPEAKER_09: bnb thing is incredible other times you're like look there's all these people couch surfing on

SPEAKER_04: craigslist if we made a gorgeous website and had more inventory so you it wasn't random that would make remove friction and we just tell everybody to go from couch surfing to airbnb both of those

SPEAKER_37: approaches could work and have worked for airbnb so that's why you do get contradictory advice

SPEAKER_04: so once you've you know got the early adopters what's the advice for the the massive middle and what's the advice for the laggers the advice for the laggers is going to be super different right like than the advice for you know the people who are uh the true vanguard of using products the vanguard is like tell me about the features how much ram does it have you know and then the laggards are like what colors are available you know when you buy an ipad today there are people who pick their phone or

SPEAKER_79: their ipad based on the color and then there are that's you okay i i mean i kind of get it i keep

SPEAKER_151: my phones for like four years so like the i mean but if you if a new color comes out would that put

SPEAKER_20: you in the upgrade cycle i'm always wondering oh no okay also i forget what color my phone is oh it's

SPEAKER_151: this color when i see that i'm like yes whatever that is when i see people buying based on the color i'm like what's going on here and it's like i get it you know like you're you're a mom or you're a

SPEAKER_18: teenager and you love red and the red came out and it gets you to visit the store and reminds you maybe i should get a new phone yeah for the rest of us we're like what are the specs is anything it's a tool for us right so you have one group of people who's buying it based on aesthetics and forgets about it and the other group cares about this there's that's like the perfect example of like people have different motivations to engage at different times in your startup's life write all this advice down take it all in the most important thing is to get close to your as best as i can tell if you this is why i narrow advice down to three things best team possible product velocity keep iterating on that product and bear hug and understand your customers and delight them because all the advice you'll see there'll be tactics that are on the periphery of that but most of the advice if you pull up that list one more time and you put it through my sort of startups are about three things rubric i think you're going to find that they fit into those three things so validate before you build has to do with product and customers build before you validate that has to do with building a product that you validate with customers launch fast that has to do with product and having a team that is capable of launches but make sure it's polished that has to do with your team and your product don't waste time that's on the periphery but don't rush that's on the periphery talk to users that has to do with your customer but don't be what they say has to do with your customer ship fast that has to do with your product and product velocity which is driven by your team but don't break trust that has to do with your customer relationship so if you look at all this

SPEAKER_04: advice it almost comes down to those three core principles if you're wondering what to do today talk to a customer and ask them about the product or look at the product's metrics and look at your competitors metrics or go look at an award-winning product that has nothing to do with yours and then think how might that influence me here so if the car of the year is the you know tesla model y or the corvette is the best one or the id buzz is the best family car go take a test drive it and then look at it and say why aesthetically are reviewers losing their minds over these cars and how does that apply to my product you can like open your mind up right and have like a really interesting moment or look at your team and say is there anybody on this team who's not bringing it i can do some professional development or should i replace a team member or should i add a team member or should i stop them from doing some repetitive work and give them some more interesting work to do all right it's been another amazing episode of this week in startups and happy one year anniversary alex you made it to a year well done i know you cost me all my hair and half my

SPEAKER_89: sanity but ladies and gentlemen year two let's do it let's do it let's uh let's double down here let's

SPEAKER_232: get focused x.com alex i am x.com jason the show is at twi startups if you love the show hey we have a

SPEAKER_04: we have a subreddit go to twi startups in reddit and you can find me again i'm jason calacanis

SPEAKER_98: one word over there and uh we will see you next time on this week of startups bye everybody bye bye there you go