SPEAKER_00: hey everybody welcome to wednesday yes we're almost halfway done with the week and uh molly's out today uh so i'll be doing a solo dolo i'm going to do a bunch of crypto news at the top and then some ask jasons at the bottom crypto firm voyeur digital as you may have heard last night filed for bankruptcy this is on top of crypto loan company celsius uh being in the news again today they paid back almost 150 million to a decentralized lending platform maker that released 40 million dollars worth of bitcoin as they post a collateral and all these shell games and loans are starting to get worked out as crypto has collapsed so we're seeing a massive shakeout and chaos continuing in the crypto space we'll talk a little bit about why this is all happening and then my predictions of where it winds up and then i'm going to answer questions from our twitter community which lives at thisweekinstartups.com tc that'll give you a link there and i'll take some live from the audience at youtube.com this week in it's going to be a great show stick with us SPEAKER_02: this week in startups is brought to you by imbroker imbroker startup insurance program helps startups SPEAKER_03: secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle save up to 20 off of traditional insurance today at imbroker.com twist while you're there get an extra 10 off using offer code twist thorn thorn thorn empowers people to take control of their long-term well-being with a proactive science-based approach to health through a variety of at-home tests thorn teaches you about what your body needs and provides the right high quality certified nutritional supplements for you to get started and take 10 off your first order head to thorn.com slash u slash twist and indochino indochino makes custom fitted suits shirts and casual wear at affordable prices shop for your next best look or book a virtual style consultation at indochino.com right now you can get 50 off any purchase of 3.99 or SPEAKER_00: more by using code twist at checkout all right voyager digital filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy last night uh voyager follows 3ac as the second major crypto firm to file for bankruptcy over the past couple of weeks if you remember voyager has two businesses essentially they are in exchange just like coinbase or others where consumers can buy and sell crypto and then two they had a lending business where they offered really high interest rates um and this easy access to loans for crypto holders so you could loan out your bitcoin or take margin against it i suppose 3ac was a crypto hedge fund so they were making trades to try to get returns for their investors and they were placing bets on you know really speculative crazy stuff like luna which was a stable coin uh known as luna terra and that algorithmic stable coin as you know basically blew up it went to zero so you have 3ac the crypto hedge fund voyager had loaned money to them and the whole thing has now become what we call in the industry a contagion so uh 3ac also borrowed money from the lender block fi and they weren't able to meet a margin call on their loans this stuff is really confusing because we don't have total clarity on it but when there is a bankruptcy proceeding or there are lawsuits this is something we'll learn uh for people who are going through a downturn a collab market collapse for the first time this is my third major one dot-com boom and the 2008 crisis were the other two for me at least as a professional i miss the 87 SPEAKER_10: 88 one that's when i graduated high school in 1888 but i did see it as a young adult and it was it was pretty gnarly uh the financial collapse in 88. so back to voyager uh they estimate in this filing that they have over a hundred thousand creditors were those creditors it's going to be a lot of uh civilians who were trading crypto on the platform they also state they have between a billion and 10 billion SPEAKER_00: assets and a billion to 10 billion in liabilities this is a big wide swath and a range of what's going on in the company so in a downturn things that go bankrupt have to essentially go in front of a SPEAKER_10: judge and work out this bankruptcy which means the kimono opens and we see everything and we really basically do a post-mortem on what happened if the company completely fails there'll be lawsuits in all likelihood and there'll be lawsuits uh all over the crypto space that's the next shoe to drop and there'll be actions from attorney generals the department of justice the sec and then all the information comes out this is a very slow painful process and it's just starting i would say we're in the second or third inning of this pain and this assessment of exactly what happened in crypto so if you dig through voyager's financials like uh economic blogger francis coppola did he found that almost 50 of voyager's total assets are loaned crypto assets right so of the assets on voyager's books a bunch of crypto assets that have been loaned and 3ac the company the hedge fund that had gone bankrupt made up 58 of its loan book according to francis coppola so they obviously gave a firm a counterparty and we're going to learn about counterparty risk today and a lot of people are waking up to uh understanding that there is another person on the other side of these loans and they may not fulfill their obligation um this is where things get dangerous there is no regulation there's no dna or scar tissue or lessons in crypto yet they're all being formed now and so the lessons about counterparty risk are very real of course you understand them from other things that have happened in history and we'll get into that in a minute so um if you are holding crypto in voyager i'm gonna guess you're gonna lose most or all of your money that's just a guess on my part uh usually when these things come apart at this very little little leftover for the actual shareholders i could be wrong who knows what's in these assets again they listed between a billion and 10 billion assets and SPEAKER_11: a billion and 10 billion liabilities voyager ceo steven ehrlich tweeted the following uh to that SPEAKER_10: question of like what does it mean for people holding their crypto on voyager and if they don't have their keys they don't own their cheese right if in crypto the whole idea was you would own the keys to your crypto if you own the keys to your crypto that and they're on your wallet or you've got them in cold storage or wherever you're hosting them this can't happen to you but people went for SPEAKER_22: ease of use i have some dogecoin on my robinhood account i don't have the keys to that i don't SPEAKER_10: i'm they're the custodians of it if something happens to them and they're holding it for you things can go wrong that's what's happening to the voyager bag holders essentially so here's what SPEAKER_00: steven said customers with crypto in their account or accounts will receive an exchange a combination of the crypto in their account or accounts proceeds from the 3ac recovery common shares in the newly reorganized company and voyager tokens so working backwards of voyager tokens that sounds like they're giving you like mileage points chucky cheese tokens i i guess they'll probably be worthless is uh what i would think uh that's not the actual crypto you bought and you made the decision to buy they're going to give you common shares in the new company so i guess this means they think they're going to be short giving you back your crypto and instead of just giving you back your crypto they're going to give you some proceeds from the 3ac recovery i would assume those would be cash and then they're going to give you shares in their company this would be as if coinbase went out of business and that's highly unlikely for coinbase who had a business a lot of cash but if they did um and then they said hey you know what how about some shares of the company instead a really weird turn of events now remember sam bankman freed who uh is going to come on the program uh later this week or next week the crypto billionaire he's been backstopping and SPEAKER_10: buying uh failing crypto exchanges from and this is from reuters bankman freed's crypto trading firm almeter research gave crypto lender voyager digital a 200 million dollar cash and stable coin revolving SPEAKER_00: credit facility and a facility of bitcoin as the company faced losses from exposure to crypto hedge fund three arrows capital that's the three ac i've been referring to three ac ac stands for three hours capital so a complete disaster and then just as we were getting on air i noticed in the three ac filing a couple of my friends of mine were kind of digging through it and they have on their loans if you look at this image you'll see that there is a certain amount of money loaned from voyager to almeda so sam is giving a loan to the company that gave him a loan if i'm understanding this correctly again it's hard to know exactly what's going on here but in the data they say almeter research limited i'm assuming that's sam bankman freed's firm has a borrowing rate of one percent to eleven point five percent on 376 million dollars in loans three hours capital had 654 million and you can see SPEAKER_10: that in the in the chart here in their bankruptcy filing so there's a lot to unpack here about what's SPEAKER_00: going on i'm not saying there's anything nefarious going on of course it's quite possible that companies were doing business with each other and voyager gave a loan to alameda or sam personally SPEAKER_10: is backstopping uh voyager with his own money he has talked about doing it with his own money but this does all mean that there's going to be a lot to sort out somebody's gonna have to figure out what's going on here yeah uh this is uh on page 12 of their filing we'll put the filing the SPEAKER_29: voyager bankruptcy filing in the show notes i'm gonna be 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SPEAKER_00: and uh transactions on their platform when the 3ac hedge fund collapsed so they had exposure as well as voyager celsius has not resumed service to its 1.7 million users almost a month later so as of may 2022 the firm had lent out more than 8 billion to clients and it had 12 billion in assets under management since pausing uh on june 12th you know and again very hard to understand what's going on there's not a lot of transparency there's not a lot of filing going on here there's not a lot of disclosures or regulation in this space and we talked for years hey if you want to play in crypto you're playing in an unregulated casino you're playing a very dangerous game with very sophisticated players and it's not transparent that means you don't have an information edge you're at an information disadvantage and you know some people might be doing corrupt criminal fraudulent things and you might have a hard time knowing about it and so as we watch this contagion happen what you'll find out is who was doing things that were either highly risky or illegal and there's going to be a wide range in there and there'll be a debate of was any of this illegal or just stupid or high risk and you know people in crypto wanted outsized returns so up and down the stack of people participating from civilians retail investors people you know who were bus drivers or uber drivers or teachers or doctors everybody was wanting to get in on this they were having high pressure on them hey have fun staying poor they were you know had the fomo of nfts and so they just opened up accounts and started participating without really knowing what they were getting into right and so they are responsible for their behavior but then up the stack you're going to have other people responsible for maybe creating the environment in which people made these bets and this is going to be the mess of all messes to clean up so since pausing on june 12th so they've been basically closed for close to a month celsius has hired restructuring consultants they laid off 150 employees and regulators have opened investigations into the company in other words not good red flags all over the place uh but according to coin desks analysis celsius has paid down 183 million of its collateralized debt uh to a decentralized lending platform called maker so okay here's another counterparty uh who is lending them money and lending money in the space the debt payments released 2000 wrapped bitcoin we talked about those before which is 40 million worth celsius posted that as collateral collateral now celsius still owes 41 million to maker but if they repay those loans that would unlock 22 000 more rapid coins which at today's price is worth well over 400 million so the the the bottom line here is there's something called counterparty risk and it's it's a pretty basic term it basically is the probability that in a transaction that the other party will not fulfill its part of the deal or they'll default on their contractual obligations so in a loan you know the person who takes the money doesn't pay it back this could be a credit card it could be your home it could be a business loan how do we deal with counterparty risk right we want to be able to loan people money to do productive things in the world well traditionally it's information based right your credit score determines what size loan you can take out the terms of the loan uh also for your credit cards you know you might have a um credit history score and they'll look at your history hey have you defaulted on your verizon payments in the past i had that i didn't know i had a phone number i had some verizon stuff on my reports i had to go get you know these little things happen in life um and it's usually based on information well in a hot market people loosen their standards they get loosey-goosey and they want to make money so if you want to make money you might turn a blind eye what's an example of this well you remember the housing boom for those of you who were around in 2008 you might have had a friend who was making 50 or 60 000 a year and they bought a million dollar home and you say well how's that possible you know the payment on that home is going to be five six thousand dollars a month and you make 50 000 a year and you've got 50 000 loan payments plus you know the maintenance of the house and taxes on the house i don't understand how you bought a million dollar house well they were doing loans at that time where they didn't uh investigate what information they could have your your scores um and your uh savings and your salaries they basically would just not vet you well then what happened the 2008 financial crisis because people were buying these homes and then they would flip them so they'd never have to worry about it and if a house was going up 15 year of a year if you bought it for a million you could sell SPEAKER_10: the next year for 1.15 million and that's essentially how the housing uh financial crisis happened in 2008 SPEAKER_00: they basically took the last five or ten percent of people in society um who were not credit worthy of buying a home in other words they didn't just have the income to pay for those loans and they let them buy homes and this is when things get dangerous there are people who have tons of assets you know if SPEAKER_10: you're i don't know a billionaire and you've got a billion dollars in stock and you want to take you know 10 million dollars in loans to buy you know whatever 100 million loans you know you have enough collateral there to pay for it and you maybe have a salary and a history of making money SPEAKER_00: and if you give these loans to people who don't have a history of making money or collateral bad things can happen so crypto was actually supposed to solve this in defy decentralized finance this was all supposed to be on smart contracts and if your bitcoin went below a certain amount it would get liquidated and that's what we saw the cascading of liquidations in bitcoin where people were getting liquidated because they took loans against their crypto and they were automatically being liquidated well there's other people who were giving these kind of loans in crypto and i think that's what we'll see with this whole mashugana with voyager and 3ac they were giving big loans without maybe uh having it be programmatically paid back in other words through a smart contract where it just instantly happened on the blockchain uh you covered your loan and maybe they didn't have the right information now here's another rub it can get even more dangerous in that housing bubble there were people who would maybe get three or four loans for three or four homes and they would lie on the paperwork and they would say on the paperwork uh this is my primary residence because SPEAKER_10: your primary residence you you get a little bit of uh a better deal in terms of interest rate and uh people want to see you get your primary residence so there's kind of different standards for that than SPEAKER_00: the second or third home which would be looked at as income properties or a second home like a vacation home you would get different terms on that well now if you shouldn't have owned the first home but you did four homes and then you take out loans against the home so you take out equity lines so the home goes up in value from a million to a million five over two or three years in a housing boom you take out five hundred thousand dollars in a home equity line and then you put that out as a down payment for two other homes and you try to rinse and repeat this this was working for people they were flipping houses and in that 2005 to 2008 period there were people who you'd be at dinner you know i'd be in los angeles which is a booming market and i'd say what do you do oh i flip houses and it was like literally like people in crypto were flipping nfts well that's what's going to come out i believe is that there'll be a bunch of people who had massive counterparty risk across multiple uh different loans and none of them were reconciled with each other so you know the third person you took a loan from didn't know about the first two people just like in this housing bubble they didn't know you had those other two homes you people lied just like when i grew up in brooklyn there were loan sharks there were people who would uh loan people money there were bookies who would take your action people might take action in bay ridge brooklyn they might also you know place a bet in queens and one in manhattan and one in the bronx from four different bookies and it took a while for their network to let people know hey this person went south on 10k and bets on the jets this person also went south on 20 000 and bets on the knicks like and the bookies then would obviously have to let each other know hey don't give this person any more action don't give them any more loans that's what we're going to see my take on all this is everybody knew what they were doing i i it's hard to have any sympathy here it's fine if sam wants to backstop everybody that's his choice but i say let it all let it all burn let it all come straight down to zero there should be no bailouts here everybody was an adult everybody was greedy everybody lowered their standards everybody believed that this stuff was going to the moon and it was never going to stop and they were making bets that were highly volatile they knew they were volatile and they didn't have basic diversification in their accounts i i mean i feel bad for the people who lost their money in one way but i don't feel bad from in another way which was they knew this was crazy all the warning signs were there now there'll be different levels of copability and uh different levels in which people are responsible for what happened if you were actually creating the casino and creating this environment in which people could gamble their money and you were encouraging them to do it i think we'll see a lot of that happen where maybe people were SPEAKER_10: weren't getting good information about how risky this was yeah there could be a bunch of lawsuits SPEAKER_00: but people knew this was super risky they were buying tokens they were buying coins nfts things that they knew didn't have value they were taking loans to buy more of those things and um you know it's uh SPEAKER_10: you're responsible for your own behavior period full stop and uh you know feel bad for you know people who've been hurt but on the other hand i think people were taking risks they didn't need to take i'm curious what you think i'm at jason on twitter you can add mention me and tell me if you think people deserved deserved to lose their money for making these risky bets or if you have sympathy for them if you think they should be bailed out honestly i think this is going to be super healthy 95 SPEAKER_00: of crypto is worthless never had a use case never had customers never had completed projects the coins were worthless and it was a pump and dump scam and the bag holders typically were the consumers SPEAKER_10: that's all terrible but this is all going to get flushed out i see people talking about bitcoin five thousand ten thousand and that this is going to be a two or three year process and you're probably SPEAKER_00: wondering well how did people let this happen well the regulators and the enforcement in the united states at least is generally um we trust people to do the right thing and then if they do the wrong SPEAKER_10: thing well then we will uh take legal action we'll investigate them we assume good faith when people SPEAKER_00: are running companies we're not going into companies and saying give us all your paperwork and we're going to audit you i mean there are some segments of society where audits take place on a regular basis public companies etc but generally speaking in startups and you know it's it's based on trust and SPEAKER_10: the united states system is you know innocent until proven guilty people can go build things and that's what's great about the economy we don't want too much regulation but this is an area where i think SPEAKER_00: people got very frisky if you were to look at other areas people got frisky you know you may look at an airbnb saying you know what we're going to bend the rules and let people rent out their rooms or we're going to interpret the laws around how many days you can rent your own house or apartment if you're a SPEAKER_10: renter can you be on airbnb they might have taken an aggressive stance at different points in times uh at different points in time but remember airbnb was providing fundamental value people needed a place to stay people wanted to make money renting their extra space and a marketplace was created and there was actual value going on here you have to ask yourself was there actual value going on and SPEAKER_16: the answer is in 99 out of 100 projects there was no value it was pure speculation it was pure gambling SPEAKER_00: uh so it's going to be another i would say 12 months of just chaos in crypto and then we'll see if there's an amazon or a google in there and that's what i'm really looking for i do think there are real projects in crypto and i think now companies are going to try to actually delight users with products that actually work and uh use the web3 stack crypto blockchain defy and we'll actually there's going to be so much cynicism about crypto over the next two to three years that anybody who operates in crypto has got to be a true believer and not a charlatan and not a grifter because there's not going to be a quick buck to be made i think it's going to be so highly regulated that people are going to find it painful to be in the crypto space i think the defaults are going to be SPEAKER_10: never-ending uh i think the pain and suffering is going to be a deep and widespread and i think the rebuild is going to be three to five years of rebuilding this space and then we might actually see something come out of it which is exactly what happened in the dot um boom and bust listen SPEAKER_53: dealing with your personal health and wellness it can be daunting you're probably being bombarded by SPEAKER_00: ads and blog posts you have no idea where to start and that's why thorn created a care system that's personalized preventative and holistic while still being science-based and if you're a high-performing founder or operator you need to make sure you take care of your health and listen i was out of shape for a long time now i'm taking my health very seriously and you should too and that's where thorn can help thorn offers at-home tests which identify where you need the most care like a gut test that analyzes your gut microbiome and a stress test that measures your stress hormone fluctuations these tests help eliminate the guesswork for good health by providing personalized steps for how you should eat how to 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program and it costs 700 if you come to all 12 SPEAKER_00: weeks we give you the 700 back so it's basically a way to incentivize people to come every week every week you come you get back like essentially 50 bucks or 60 bucks of the money you put up it's a little interesting device we did this has led to 95 of people finishing the program which is super SPEAKER_10: awesome and we're now doing our third cohort you can go to founder.university to apply but folks from the program ask me questions all the time and i'm backed up on some questions so uh here's the first one is kind of a fun one uh graham uh caro asks would you ever consider applying to shark tank as a judge to grow your brand or create your own tech centered version with the besties or are you too old too SPEAKER_16: tired and too talented that last uh clip is a uh something that the star of um what's the hbo show secession yeah the the the lead actor on that said that at some point when they asked him uh a question SPEAKER_00: and it was a pretty funny one so uh i actually was approached by the uh dragons then which was the precursor to shark tank so it started actually in the uk as dragons then when they came to the us mark burnett's people call me they called mark cuban a bunch of other people and then they went with like people who weren't in tech tech wasn't super popular at that point and then they circle back around with mark cuban um and he was actually under investigation at the time quite unfairly by the sec for this mama SPEAKER_10: which was like a search engine or something once he got cleared of all those charges um where they were kind of essentially saying that he was trading on insider information or something about when he wasn't uh he uh he wound up doing it yeah and then maybe later on i got contacted actually again where they were just kind of putting out feelers but i am i just uh am in the process of putting the final deal points on a another uh reality tv contract with another you know i'd say yeah most people consider the top reality tv production company and so we're in the final like negotiation there and i had previously done uh an nbc pilot about the incubator was called the incubator and it was going to be on nbc but my partner on that was harvey weinstein uh and then when all that information came out about harvey weinstein it basically killed the project so most people don't know that story uh but i have dabbled in reality tv yeah this will be the second time basically i get contacted every year a couple times but usually it's for shows that i think are corny this new deal i'm doing is to develop a show alongside them i also did on this very channel um something called the syndicate where i would have a bunch of syndicate investors come together and basically vote with their dollars on companies we were presenting and so i might do something myself around the syndicate and i think reality tv is great if it inspires people to uh go on and get excited and invest and in fact chamath was on my reality show he was one of the uh guest stars and uh it never made it to air but i have the i have the pilot SPEAKER_16: on my phone i can't show it to anybody uh because all under uh nda and stuff like that but uh i do i SPEAKER_18: do have it on my phone but i don't think the other besties want to do reality tv i think they just it's SPEAKER_10: enough work to just try and get all in out every week so we're just as you may have heard with all the controversy we're just not making all in a commercial enterprise it's just a weekly podcast with four friends okay here's another question from isabel uh again from the founder dot university first cohort i think we had uh maybe 95 100 people went to that first cohort and i think 85 or 90 SPEAKER_00: graduated and i invested in maybe five of them so uh isabel asks trying to bootstrap as long as possible but when is it okay to quit your day job and so she continues i was thinking that in this scenario the best time to raise is when speed is needed to compensate users and profits or scaling but would it look bad to start raising while working the day job great question so investors are not going to give you money unless you quit your day job because they want you and this is gonna be SPEAKER_10: like uh i'll tell you what they say behind closed doors i've had situations where people were working SPEAKER_00: at like google they had a side project and they're like you know what it's a really cool project but these are cowards like literally this is how factory community looks at the the people who will not quit their day job it's unfair i know but i'm just telling you what they think we have people who are risking it all they have massive skin in the game and they have burned the boats in other words they got to the new world and instead of having the boats there where they could go home they would burn the boats and burning the boats as you probably heard elizabeth holmes say um you know SPEAKER_10: in that tv series about you know her time at theranos burning the boats as a concept means you're all in you are walking across that tightrope without a net and it's that type of pressure that the venture community believes makes the diamonds right and if you're hedging and listen people have kids they have families they have bills to pay i understand why you wouldn't quit but you're just not going to SPEAKER_00: raise money so the best thing to do is to take your day job and eventually make it a consulting gig and so nine times out of ten i think or four times out of five if you were really valuable um to your the company you're at you could say hey listen i want to pursue this startup would it be okay if i went down to three days a week as a consultant here's my hourly rate you can take me off the books i don't need benefits or whatever i'll use my cobra for the next six months and you come up with some deal that actually uh worked for me and other people in terms of that then when you go to folks you can say SPEAKER_10: yeah i'm consulting two days a week or three days a week but i'm all in on my startup and i'm just consulting to keep the lights on once i raise a little bit of money here or i get the revenue started then i'm going to even stop doing the highly lucrative consulting but i'm using that highly lucrative consulting to fund the business so that's called framing framing is how you present a piece of information and you can present the same piece of information two or three different ways SPEAKER_22: if you framed it as yeah you know well i don't know if this startup is going to work so i still SPEAKER_00: kept my job that's one way of framing it and that's like the worst possible framing but if you said i get overpaid to do this consulting because i'm so valuable to the company that i used to work at and they didn't want to let me go so i basically tripled my rates and i took my hourly rate and i tripled it and now i work for them you know one third of the time but i get paid the same money and i'm using their money to fund this startup man now you look baller now you look savvy now you look in demand same information but presented in a different way could have a majorly different result so but bootstrapping is the best thing you can do bootstrapping means uh and it means it comes from the phrase pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps which doesn't make a lot of logical sense but people who are bootstrappers or doing their startup through sweat equity those are the most attractive founders in the world why because they didn't wait for permission from investors to get started and build something important in the world they just did it and that sense of inevitability in a startup is very attractive that is like nectar to the honey peas that are venture capitalists they see that you're gonna do this startup come hell or high water you're gonna do it whether you have to be a consultant three days a week and do this four days a week and you're just dogged and driven and visionary and you will not stop man now it's like well that's the person i want to place the bet on the person who's like i'm doing this you know on the weekend that's the person you don't want to place a bet on in a venture capitalist mind not saying it's fair not saying people don't have different needs in life and you know you could be a single mom or dad with three kids in private school and listen startups are going to be impossible there's nobody who's going to fund a startup with three idea founders all who SPEAKER_10: need to take 250k a year it just very rarely happens in our industry and it's the nature of venture capitalists and their signaling and what they've seen work before and the reality that there's not enough money in an early stage startup to pay for the big salaries early stage startups need to conserve cash most of the founders in early stage startups i see will take a 5k draw a month 60k a year sometimes 7 or 8k you know 100 000 a year they'll take just as much money as they need to cover their nut just cover their mortgage rent their food and they're all in on the equity so make sure that you're giving the impression that you're all in on your own equity and if you're not all in why should somebody take a bet on you when they have other people they can bet on remember it is a competition so they have other choices of who to invest in they're going to invest in the person who's all in not the person who's hedging their bets great question isabel weddings are back in full swing this SPEAKER_53: summer you know that you need to look great whether you're the groom maybe you're on the wedding party or Chamath Palihapitiya: you're just a guest and you want to look your best this is what you need you need to go to indochino they make high quality custom fitted suits shirts casual wear and more maybe you're going to the minions premiere and you need a great suit i don't know whatever your bag is with indochino you can customize everything suits and shirts chinos bomber jackets and it's at surprisingly affordable prices this is high quality stuff at a great price and you are going to be able to just make every little nuance of your suit your own everything they're going to measure it it's super easy to get measured i did it it was a delightful experience in the store the person was a delightful person to deal with and then they walked me through hey what fabric do you like what lapels what monogram maybe some statement linings all for starting at just 429 a suit i kid you not and shirts are only 79 it's an incredible bargain i love my indochino suits i wear them all the time and if you've got that big day coming up getting the perfect look is simple with indochino 50 bucks off any purchase of 399 or more by using the promo code twist at indochino.com i-n-d-o-c-h-i-n-o.com use that promo go twist so David Friedberg: they know i sent you okay should we take one from the audience do you have a good one from the audience SPEAKER_00: so we can keep the audience engaged all right ev v uh asks when a company you already invested in comes back asking for more money how do you decide whether or not to double down what a great question so but we are very clear with our founders we uh like to get to a 10 to 15 ownership position in growing companies in our portfolio if the company is growing and growing is typically double digit percentages month over month if you're growing 10 a month that means every seven months the rule of 72 look it up uh when you grow 10 a month you will double your revenue or users whatever you're counting SPEAKER_37: every seven months and you're really in in the early stages of startup you're looking for triple David Friedberg: triple triple tripling your revenue every year for the first three years so you started with 150k in SPEAKER_00: revenue you got to 450 then you got to 1.4 1.5 million that's a high growth startup very easy for me as an investor and the syndicate which is a group of 11 000 angel investors making their own independent decisions to invest on average seven thousand dollars i think six or seven thousand dollars is their you know bet and our average deal i think is 750k to a million at thesyndicate.com so i'll invest a little bit for my fund and then from the syndicate if you're not growing the syndicate doesn't perform the syndicate doesn't want to invest in things that are sideways so what we do is we invest in a bunch of companies say 50 new companies a year and then some number of them hit that goal if we see you hitting that goal you're tripling your revenue year over year we will then invest more money until we get to that 15 ownership position once we hit the 15 ownership position if you continue to grow we will take our pro rata which is a legal term it's a it's a right for investors to maintain their ownership percentage so if i own 15 of your company now you're worth 500 million and you decide you're going to raise 50 million okay i need to come up with 15 of 50 million to maintain my 15 ownership position which means i got to come up with 7.5 million we actually had this happen with the unicorn we own six percent of it it was a billion dollar company they were raising 100 million and the syndicate did its largest deal ever and put in six million so we actually got to put six million into a company that we had invested in when it was only worth four million so we really love to keep investing in growing companies now what if a company is not growing well you are then as a founder it's up to you to go find new investors you cannot as an investor keep becoming the sole source of funding so you have to understand as a founder you get money from a group of angel investors they typically only invest once some of them maybe 10 20 will double down triple down on winners but they're not going to double down and triple down on sideways companies so then you have to then sell your story to another group of investors the other qualities we look for and so generally we don't do bridge fundings we like when a round is priced what does it mean for a round to be priced that means a new investor came in and said you know what jcal invested when it was a 10 million dollar company and he put a million dollars in about 10 of the company the company tripled its revenue we now think it's worth 30 million we want to put in 5 million we want to own approximately you know 15 of the company well depending on that lead investor now has done the work for the entire investment community to mark your share price up you've proven to the market that you can find another person who wants to buy your shares if you can't prove that then maybe your company is not increased in value and you need to do what's called a flat round which means you you take that 10 million dollars and you say hey anybody want to put another 500k in that's a bridge okay or sometimes i'll call it seed plus and that's the hard uh hard truth about silicon valley it is a milestone based funding system at its best and so what that means is you have to perform and if you perform you get more money if you don't perform you may not get more money or you may have to convince another group of people to take a flyer on you or you may only be able to raise at your last valuation and do a flat round so those are the the hard truths about our uh industry and for me um i communicate that uh as as honestly as i can with founders and sometimes they do not take the news well you know i've had founders say like i don't understand you believed in us and i said okay but we are not a charity we have to have a betting strategy in order for us to raise our next fund we never intend to invest in 50 companies in a fund and then keep investing in all 50 we intend to invest in 50 very high risk companies and then invest in 10 of them more money in other words the top 20 will get more money from us that then lets our portfolio shine we're putting more money into the most high performing companies as opposed you know to other times when you're just not performing and you know there's a lot of reasons why you didn't perform it could be bad luck it could be a competitor it could be your own execution it could be there's not a big market there and then the healthy part of that discussion is when the venture community will not fund a startup that founder then has to either prove it to the venture community through revenue growth which means they cut their staff they find customers they do a consulting gig to keep the company going whatever it is or they shut the company down people take the loss so okay we lost a million dollars but we made 10 million here we take them 1 million loss against the 10 million gains you know and that's part of the the game as well for investors is they can take those losses and put them against gains and that's the beautiful part about capitalism in the united states this is not the an industry where everybody's supposed to win it's not participation trophies sorry not everybody's supposed to win there's supposed to be a small handful of winners if your company doesn't win we kind of want you to shut it down and start a new one and then have a fresh cap table with a new vision and move on and that's a very hard discussion to have and it typically happens when the money runs out and you know it's it's now i am very philosophical about it it didn't work out you did your best you know go work at facebook for two or three years if you have personal debts pay them down recollect your energy rest invest on the roof of hooli or google or whoever wants to give you an overpay job and then when you have your next best idea come SPEAKER_10: back to the venture capitalists and to the angel investors and to the incubators and uh take their money again i hope that answers your question okay let's take one more from the audience great job rachel that's a great question okay kumar asks i'm about to raise a seed round SPEAKER_50: congratulations kumar funding has been arranged i don't know what that means just need to finalize SPEAKER_00: the paperwork should growth be the target increasing the user base or generating positive cash flow great question okay i'm going to assume you're going to wrap up your funding and then you're saying hey once i have the funding should i be growing the user base or making money okay this is highly dependent on the market you're operating in in the high growth uh boom days of the last five years most people would say don't worry about revenue as much as the user growth especially if you're in a consumer uh startup in other words instagram youtube twitter you just want to get a large number of people and then once you have tens of millions of people then you turn on advertising turning on advertising with a hundred thousand people it generally is going to have moderate results and you're going to be serving two masters the the advertisers and the users so it's better to just go after the users if you look at the all in podcast there's no advertising on it and that actually became a big feature and now it's very big and now we're forced to say with all in hey maybe we should add some ads or people are offering us various large sums of money i mean we decided not to but even this week in startups we started having advertising in the early days we just did it because people were asking uh slowly over time we were able to raise the rates etc it also it depends on what market you're in and it also depends on the market you're operating in so if you're a b2b sas company or you're a marketplace why wouldn't you take the transactions it's kind of built into the system if you're uber why wouldn't you take your 25 if you're airbnb why wouldn't you take your 10 or 15 you should take it you should you don't want to train the customers to not do that so if you're a consumer product i could understand putting it off but if you're a b2b marketplace sas company why would you not charge for your product if you charge your product you get better feedback and the number one piece of feedback you get is your product worth paying for you need to know that as a founder if you put that off as a sas company you're it's a really dumb decision because now you never know if people will pay for slack but slack was never free you always had to pay uh now they may have free versions but if you wanted their top tier you had to pay that gives signal back to your team so there's the vertical you're operating and in your business model there's also the market conditions in a market like today's where the market is down people don't want to invest in money losing startups that have no path to profitability or no path to break even whereas SPEAKER_10: just six months 12 months ago they did so the market has changed i would say try to if you're not an advertising-based company i would try to turn the revenue on and think about it this way if you do get to if you're burning 50k a month and all of a sudden you get 25k in in uh revenue now your burn goes down and your runway doubles so your burn went down by half which means your runway doubled if you had you know 500k in the bank you had 10 months of runway now you make 25k a month now you've got 20 months of runway that's a big competitive advantage and that means you're getting close to as paul graham would say default alive default alive means your break even are profitable so in this kind of market conditions yeah where it's gonna be hard to raise money and money's gonna be expensive i would yeah certainly try to turn on revenue if you can okay let's take another one SPEAKER_00: from the audience all right bob g og bob g what current fang ceos would you like to interview what insights would you look for it's really interesting you know sundar and satya are incredibly boring uh and they just really don't talk too much about controversial stuff and visionary stuff they you know when you're a hired ceo of a company um as opposed to the founder you've got to be careful because you're a hired gun you report to the board and so doing an interview yeah they tend to stay on message and they don't have that founder authority to be bold and crazy and honest so zuckerberg would be a really interesting one uh i would totally interview zuckerberg i'd love to get why he made certain decisions uh we interviewed elon at the all-in summit he's amazing right he's super honest so there's that founder authority so uh i would love to do reid hastings from netflix oh my god that'd be great i've asked him a couple of times i don't think he even knows who i am uh and so and he could care less uh i mean he i've seen reid hastings a couple of times give interviews he's a SPEAKER_16: really good interview i'd love to interview him i'd love to interview zuck uh that'd be interesting SPEAKER_00: especially since i've been such a long-term critic google i did interview sergey when it was like year one of google i got to find the tape of that in like 2000 i i guess for amazon you know jeff bezos would be an all-time great interview for sure i'd love to do that but i'm not sure the current ceo again might fall into the bucket of being on message and maybe reluctant to say anything too bold in an interview so but i would interview any of them of course and the insights i'd be looking for i would really like to talk to reid hastings about their philosophy around original content because they really have done some great niche content they stood behind dave chappelle they stood behind ricky gervais and certain controversies so i'd love to talk about that like how do you deal with comedy it's like such an incredible draw to the platform but some people are triggered by you know certain topics in comedy and comedy at its best is pushing the envelope and challenging people so that would be a great discussion and then how do they compete when there's so many different people trying to do what they're doing at netflix and they're up against that so that you know disney and and hbo max how do they deal with the competition um i would also like to ask reid hastings about dropping the whole season versus releasing each week which is the better idea i think we saw with obi-wan and some other series if you let them breathe uh apple tv letting it breathe with severance you kind of get this build up and you have this like nice thing to talk about every week with your friends uh did you see the latest episode like the sopranos kind of burned SPEAKER_16: in all of our minds so yeah i i would love to dr re i guess it seems like reid hastings would be the most interesting at this point in time and that's what i would say okay let's take another SPEAKER_22: question pre and post money great okay so let's say this is from somebody named bill mccain uh SPEAKER_00: pre and post money if you uh value a company at eight million dollars and then you're going to invest two million in the company the pre-money evaluation before the money went in was eight million you determined now you give them two million dollars well now the eight million dollar enterprise value of the company is a company that's still worth eight million dollars but they have two million in cash so eight plus two equals ten post money it's really that simple so before we give you the money SPEAKER_10: and then after we give you the money and then you obviously can calculate the number of shares that were given etc to understand ownership percentage okay uh let's take one more question SPEAKER_00: hello i'm in a zone right now give me another question do you entertain pro rata multiples or not we ask for two to three on most deals i think what uh brandon is talking about here is hey can i if i put in a small check let's say 100k at a 10 million dollar valuation i own one percent in the next round because i'm taking the risk early can i put in 500k and so somebody check with brandon if that's what he's talking about so in the next round can i buy up to five percent of the company so i have one and i think most people call this super pro rata or pro rata multiple would be another way to say it i've never heard it said like that i call it super pro rata that's what i've always heard um there's a controversial a controversial right we actually have it from our accelerator so when people graduate from our accelerator we have the right to put 500k or do half the round because we have the syndicate so part of the value proposition of coming to the launch accelerator is if you do a reasonable job we're gonna in all likelihood syndicate you i think it we did this we do this five or six out of seven times jackie who runs the program can tell me sometimes the reason we don't do it is because they don't raise another round of funding uh in the six months after they're doing so well or they don't want to raise money and so that can be controversial for the next set of investors who are trying to slurp up as much equity as possible so if you give that right make sure it's with somebody who you really want to own a large percentage of your company um and it typically happens when things are small the problem with this right is how do you execute it when you do the next round if it is a big right so if the person is putting in five percent let's say SPEAKER_10: they put 500k in in a 10 million valuation company they own five percent now let's say they say i want SPEAKER_00: to be able to put three million in the next round well let's say the next round is three million well then how do you do that they have the entirety of the next round if the next round is 15 of the company and they get to put three million and somebody gave you a term sheet they get to steal that term sheet out from under them so it really is the scale of it i think if it's really tiny and you're saying hey i own one percent i want to go to three or i own two percent i want to go to five i don't see much of a problem there if it was hey i own five percent i want to go to 20 guaranteed or 15 guaranteed that could screw up the entire round there's no room for a new investor so you just have to be careful uh consult with an attorney obviously in these cases if you don't need to give that right and you're over subscribed then don't give it uh if you're a venture firm in your seed stage i like the idea of you going for a brand and i like it i think it's a clever idea and for the founders if you got early support and the person said hey listen it will really help me if in the next round i can increase my ownership percentage can you just give me 72 hours to give you a yes or no it's it's very little skin off your back and you can just say to the new investors listen brandon or jcal gave me a ton of support they own two percent of the company i told them they could go up to four percent in this round i'm gonna you know live up to that obligation because we wouldn't have gotten here uh if it wasn't SPEAKER_16: for them so uh if that's what he's talking about yes he said that that's what he was talking about SPEAKER_80: perfect thank you all right i'll take one more since we're doing so good with these questions SPEAKER_10: these are great questions everybody wow oh it's from bob g hey jason i am a marketing intern what marketing strategy do you advise companies to avoid and which you personally like most okay so SPEAKER_00: the most important thing with any marketing strategy is that you're iterating on it and you're taking an iterative approach what do i mean by this well you're kind of testing it so as but one example inside.com the other company i run in addition to this week's startups launch launched a job board so i said it'd be pretty interesting if we mix the news at inside.com crypto or inside.com ai with jobs and questions so i just had this vision what if like linkedin quora reddit and you know a job board had a baby what would that look like that's inside and it's by topic so really interesting right inside.com real estate or re could have real estate jobs could have questions about real estate the industry i'm talking about and news stories kind of an interesting you know potpourri of uh items so i told my team when we launched this two weeks let's try a couple different strategies one of them is we're emailing people directly and saying hey uh you're an hr manager at this startup you can post your jobs for crypto here free and so i just asked people hey can just email 10 people a day and report back to me what happens and after you get to 100 tell me how many of them replied to you and how many of them click the link and how many went there so the best marketing are when you would look at that and say hey we emailed 100 people who are in hr and two of them posted a job two percent response rate and you know 10 of them hit reply okay that's one strategy i took another strategy where i told them hey go and find really interesting jobs that relate to disney because we have a disney topic or relate to nfts and post those jobs ourselves so we would post the jobs on behalf of the companies and then the next thing i'll try is email them and say hey we posted your job over here because we thought it was interesting so if you think about it like a news story you could post to reddit a news story or to hacker news you can also post a job well why does the person posting the job have to be the person to work there so i'm trying three or four different marketing strategies and then iterating on each one and we'll drop some that don't work so it's really the philosophy at which you go forward with this pr is another one some people just give 25k to a pr firm and they don't get any response a better thing might be to say you know what i'm going to hire a great writer to work with our founder and ceo and i'm going to have that writer i'm going to pay them two thousand dollars for each blog post they write and i'm going to ask them to write two blog posts a week so we're gonna spend a hundred thousand dollars a year we'll have three different writers we'll write a hundred of these and then for a hundred thousand dollars we'll have all this great is that right no two hundred thousand dollars it was 2k let's say it's a thousand dollars blog post that would be more realistic so two a week two thousand dollars fifty two weeks a year 104 000 you take two weeks off a hundred thousand that hundred thousand versus three hundred thousand for a pr firm i bet you the hundred thousand dollars spent on a hundred articles at a thousand dollars each would do better than the pr if you picked great topics so there's like a really good debate you can have internally hey if we want to get press how are other people getting press are they getting a pr person to email me when a pr person emails me and says i want to have my person on this weekend startups i have a canned response that says oh my god thank you so much for thinking of us there's like a really nice uh you know piece of bread and then i say but we don't take any pitches for the podcast can you please take us off your can you please note this in your database and please do not offer us any more clients thank you so much then you know that's the the ish in the middle of the sandwich and then a really nice oh my god thanks again for thinking of us and then people are like okay thanks but how do people get on your podcast and we say we select them that's it so just so you know like pr firms don't work for getting people on the really good podcast what works you having a really interesting opinion and you doing work in the world and so you know somebody like pomp as an example he does his podcast himself and then after 100 episodes it's kind of hard to ignore pop he's doing good content on twitter he's doing good content on his podcast if i am going to have somebody on to talk about bitcoin yeah i'd love to have pomp on he's great he's good at being on air he's got strong opinions he's educated that's actually a better way to become to get press so i think you have to look at each of these uh different attempts you're going to make whether it's facebook ads or social media and then you have to iterate on them and iterate on them and learn something as a group and it almost never works the first try out so you have to have a certain resiliency in marketing to do 10 iterations so we had rachel do meetups the meetups worked really good then coveted again and then it inspired me to think about meetups and we're going to relaunch the meetups and have a really cool format that's going to be twist live that we're going to start doing in the fall and it's largely based on what rachel learned which is people want to hang out and meet other founders so we're going to do a founder only meetup and then we're going to do one for investors as well and we're going to cross pollinate so that was one of the big learnings if you do SPEAKER_10: an invite only or people apply to come to an event like these meetups if it's only founders and investors it creates like this very weird atmosphere where it's like wait a second everybody SPEAKER_00: hears on the buy and sell side of the cap table oh interesting i like it so that's my best advice is to iterate and you look at your last experiment and you say how could we have done that better anybody have any theories let's try the next thing the next thing and it is super arduous and painful so you have to accept that pain and accept that it might take you three to six months to get good at something but if something does hit oh my lord double down double down double down into you can SPEAKER_10: double down no more in my career it happened to be podcasting why because i'm a world-class talker and so here we are i could talk all day long podcasting worked for me most people are terrible SPEAKER_00: at pocket you listen to the interest and horowitz podcast it's like unlistenable why well the smart people but they're just not entertaining and they're not well spoken in most cases so most people shouldn't do podcasts because they're not good at talking they're good at other stuff like investing in companies or building them so everybody followed me down this path of like oh if you're a vc you have to have a podcast you don't you could write blog posts or you could host a conference or a dinner or you could host dinner parties at your house there's other things you can do to increase your profile go on cnbc different people are good at different things and so really also think what do you love to do on a marketing basis right some people like to do big events some people like to do small events SPEAKER_10: a jeremy allaire just invited me he's going to do a big crypto event in san francisco is hey you want to moderate something we have 3 000 people there like okay jeremy that sounds like an interesting opportunity sure maybe i'll get involved in that other people might want to do a three-person dinner or a 30-person dinner instead of a 3 000 person event so you got to think this through yourself what are SPEAKER_00: you good at and then are you willing to iterate iterate iterate on it great question okay i think i've done a ton of questions okay did you have wild card question okay zen prophet how is the electric bike effort going uh this has been amazing for me life-changing i have a rad power bike that was amazing my 12 year old could jump on the back of it's got like one of those flat seats so i got the rad power like the crew it's like a general bike i don't know what the name of it is um but then i got the wagon now the wagon has a cage on the back where i can put my two six-year-olds in so i take them down to ice cream i got this giant like motorcycle kind of ride beautiful but then i was like you know what i i got the mountain house uh up in the in the tahoe lake tahoe area i'm 51 i want to be in the best shape of my life this year i lost the 40 pounds since the peak weight i did 40 days of skiing now i want to use this bike i think i want to get 20 rides in the summer that's going to be a hard thing for me to do i did my first one yesterday with brian block who is one of the co-founders of engadget and also uh the co-founder of begin.com a company i'm an investor in and on the board of and we went out and i got this turbo levo specialized monster of an electric mountain bike holy cow is it mind-blowing to go off-road but to have this extra power and i did like an intermediate trail and i got little mountain kisses like i got scrape on my arm here i scuffed my leg i i went down on the bike twice not like crashes but like i went up a big boulder and my bike went backwards so i had to just like lay it down kind of thing rip my leg up was great and then you can go up these hills and you're outside in nature and it actually is just like skiing i realized those are both incredible flow experiences for me skiing i put on that like uh i put on a little music i got a little dad speaker i put on my jacket and i just have dire straits concerts from the 80s and 90s playing and i just zip zip zip zip do two or three hours skiing in the afternoon and man this e-bike you're out in nature and you if you need a little extra power you got it so when we came back there was this huge uphill i just put this thing in turbo mode zip right up the hill and my body feels great today i got a really hard workout but i didn't have to destroy my body and my friend ryan was on a non-e-bike he had one of those santa cruz uh non-e-bike mountain bikes and he was wiped out on this five or six mile ride the other interesting thing about this mountain bike is there are these crazy maniacs who make the trails so like the trails got like bridges and i don't know what they call these swervy parts where you go up on the edge it was awesome i have to say like i literally i'm sitting here i have two staff meetings today but i'm on vacation so i told everybody i'm gonna instead of taking full day vacations anymore i take half days of work somewhere around 12 30 like right now then i take the afternoon off so this is works better for me work the mornings take the afternoons off instead of taking two weeks of vacation a year take four but do half and half that just personally works better for me because then i get out on the mountain skiing or biking i have all these amazing ideas i have all this extra energy so i don't like turning it off for two weeks does it work for me as a business owner does it work for my brain chemistry but the half and half oh yum yum and i am loving this specialized bike it's super expensive i mean i dropped i told my chief of staff presh go find the best bike money is no object because i'm going to be dead soon so i made the money i'm going to spend it on my health that's my new view for my health nine thousand dollars i'm embarrassed to say this bike cost i was like i could have bought a motorcycle or two i mean it's kind of crazy when you think about it but the resale value of them you know goes down like a thousand a year uh based on my research and what i was told so if i use this bike for three years then it's worth six five or six thousand if i use it for three years you know 75 bucks a month to have the best bike in the world seems quite reasonable to me uh and if it makes me healthier and it gives me joy in my life SPEAKER_10: well i you know i go to dinner for 500 bucks or 300 bucks i can go for a bike ride you know i think uh if i would have netted out if i spend a thousand dollars a year on this and i go for 50 bike rides it's 20 bucks a ride who cares you know if i go for 100 rides if i use it casually not just for mountain biking but for you know going to the store which i have been using it to go for coffee 10 bucks a ride well that's what an uber would have cost or what you know owning a car would have cost so i think e-bikes are going to change the world i think we can reconfigure cities based on e-bikes i am super inspired by them i don't think it's a great investment i'll be honest SPEAKER_00: because i think it's a dogged fight but if you have not bought an e-bike yet you absolutely have to go rent one and it's a different experience because you get a workout when you want and you get transportation when you want or anything in between so going to a dinner like i like riding it to dinner and then i ride home and i'm like you know i had a lot to eat i had dessert but i'm gonna get 20 minutes of workout at the end but it doesn't have to be ridiculous and i'll be SPEAKER_10: sweating when i get home it could just be like a nice little it's like the difference between going running and going on a hike or going for a walk around town you get to pick just by going boop SPEAKER_00: boop boop you just pick what mode you want to be in it is awesome and so i highly recommend it mountain biking seems to me to be pretty dangerous uh and i think uh there's going to be a lot of injuries so i am taking the same approach i took with skiing which is i'm just going to do 30 percent less than what i'm capable of and i'm going to keep it safe and uh keep myself on the road so thanks for the question all right that's a lot of questions do we have one that's really great any other ones that are really great noah wagman asks when gen z run startup has gotten you excited from the ok boomer segment or from yourself um you know a lot of them have been smaller ideas and so i think a lot of the founders have niche ideas and then they'll open them up and so what i like to do is meet the founders get the energy heat check get the you know chip on your shoulder heat check and then i like to see what their second startup is or where their pivot is because i think a lot of times young founders and i'm seeing it in gen z and i saw it in gen x we start with a smaller idea right something that feels safer it's more intimate it's personal but then you're like i did that how can i make something bigger how can i make something bigger i'm actually been thinking about this with the podcasting okay i did this week in startups i created a you know startup that's a podcast that's six days a week that have an incredible like world-class co-host molly wood left npr to come work with me it's a big effing deal and then i started another one all in and that became top 25 some weeks on the global charts and it's you know incredible so now i'm like wait i'm pretty good at this so i have two more pockets i'm going to launch in the coming weeks um one of them is going to be kind of a round table format like all in uh or like when i do the all-in round table format originated with our news round table so i used to have something called the news round table here before i had the co-host concept with molly and the news round table would just bring three people together sometimes founders sometimes journalists so i'm going to watch another version of that it's not all in it won't be the all in guys the all-in guys we don't have guests that often i think we've had three or four uh in the history of the pod but there are people in my orbit from the all-in summit from this week in SPEAKER_10: startups who i would love to do you know maybe have them in a rotating so if you think about it it might be like a little bit of a jam band for me where i could have i don't know think of like um glenn from redfin who i really like or adina from divvy homes or uh brad gerstner or uh you know pick people who SPEAKER_00: you see me have on the show on a regular basis keith roboi there's all these other people who are like if there's a core avenger team of all in and this vegan startups me molly chamath sax and um friedberg you know that's like this like really hardcore group that you know are good foundational but then i got all these other people who are like the extended x-men universe or the extended avengers so the next podcast i'm going to launch is going to be a weekly round table but on a specific topic so all in is about all topics this next one is going to be okay we're going to do three people talking about real estate three people talking about crypto three people with me talking about energy right so imagine like topical but one topic three people what do you think of that idea tell me rated on a scale of one to ten um and then i've got another idea that i'm not ready to talk about yet um that'll be well actually i could just say it i'm the the we live in the future segment that we love doing here so much i want to make that its own standalone show so we live in the future you guys love it so much i would like to have molly or myself or friedberg or somebody uh go out and do on-site visits where we talk to we go to a nuclear power plant or we go to joby and we experience the the vetoes and i'm thinking about we live in the future which i've you know got w t i l f no we live in the future w l i t f.com i have that and i have the ip around it so i'd like to either do that on tv like a netflix series or an hbo series with me as the host or i'm going to just SPEAKER_10: i'll pay the bill myself and i'll make my own kind of go visit a cool company so what do you think my two ideas the other one is like the round table let's call it a topical round table or topic based round tables is idea one the other one is we live in the future but with like a visit to the actual place that's making the future which of those ideas do you like better which of those ideas do you like and rate each idea on a scale of one to ten i just want to see the audience reaction here i'm going to take a look at which one you like better and what you think of my ideas positive SPEAKER_58: forward looking i'll take uh out a loan to help with the startup costs maybe some health or biotech SPEAKER_10: topics that would be great yeah um we live in the future is brilliant encompassing jcal brand oh thanks pal uh is it a problem that not even you can get letters straight in your brain yes it is uh and uh SPEAKER_80: what about an underrepresented podcast brandon you should launch that or yeah i you know for me as a SPEAKER_00: white dude to launch it i don't know how you would feel about that i sometimes i get criticized when i do something in diversity and inclusion and people are like how come the white guys doing that and the white male cis white and people start yelling at me and they call me a cis white male and i'm like i don't know what that means exactly i know the white part but um and i'm like okay maybe you should do that uh maybe a person of color should do that a woman of color somebody who's not cis i don't know um so we need both sides of the table yeah i mean okay let me ask you this way brandon uh people of color version of all in or this week in startups executive produced by jason calacanis how does that float is that opening me up to a bunch of people just totally savaging me or they're like hey jay cal here's a cookie and a star you're really great um but anyway i think you know if you find out you're good at something i think keep pulling that string i found out i'm kind of good at creating brands like in gadget this week in startups mahalo SPEAKER_10: inside.com joystick all in launch festival tech crunch 50. i just like making i also enjoy making brands so i want to create two brands a year i think um this would be enough for my brain so all in last year inside this year i got the two new podcast ideas and i did all on summit that was a new idea uh just had people of color to the already popular platforms i do that already yeah we do that SPEAKER_16: already um and we actually made some progress on that with all in as well uh with the summit so all right great job everybody uh that's enough show for today rate the show on a scale of one to SPEAKER_00: ten how did i do solo dolo today we're back to the future remember i used to do this solo every day it's a it actually gets my energy going some solos so i think when i launch these new products i may SPEAKER_10: do a solo day once a week and let molly do one of the other shows uh so she can stay focused uh a SPEAKER_00: three okay well thanks i guess that's on a scale of one two and three three being six twelve ten okay i'll take it i'll take it uh tell me how to improve it great work producers yeah we were a little short SPEAKER_58: staff today if i'm being honest just rachel you did a great job uh rachel and ax did a great job i knew you could do it uh bill mccabe gives it an 11. yeah i don't know if that's my cousin billy SPEAKER_10: uh if it is my cousin billy uh he we were like best friends when we were kids we used to be really into star wars and starting businesses and hanging out so love you cousin billy if that is in fact my cousin billy if it's if it's another bill mccabe it just got weird so i i love you too uh it is my cousin billy okay who's uh wait one of one of his kids is interning which which of your kids is interning cousin billy we got a two-week internship for my for one of them i guess i guess he's kind of like my nephew i don't know what you call a second cousin or a nephew i guess bobby is working here for two weeks so uh you better uh give him a hard time make that kid work if he doesn't cry to his dad then i didn't do my job so you better give him some work to do after SPEAKER_131: he's done with work give him some homework to do after work we got to break that kid okay everybody SPEAKER_53: thanks for listening before i go i wanted to let you know about the 12-week founder university SPEAKER_00: founder university is a program we put together to guide you through the early stages of company building if you have an idea you want to build an mvp maybe you started building an mvp you may you don't have to be incorporated you don't have to have raised money you just have to be somebody who wants to be a founder that's why we call it founder.university so we're going to help you get your mvp live maybe help you win some of your first customers and gear up for fundraising and future growth and adding team members this third cohort the third time we're doing it starts on july 11th 2022 you go over to course.founder.university to learn more and apply or you can just go to founder.university i'm sure it's linked to from there and we basically do it for free if you come to 10 11 12 of the 12 weeks so if you pay the 700 bucks to come to this class and you come to 10 11 12 weeks of the program you can have an excused week or two you've got kids or you get sick it's totally cool but we want you to finish the 12 weeks when you finish 12 weeks we give you the 700 back so we stripe must think we're crazy because we have literally hundreds of thousands of dollars come in for the course and then hundreds of thousands of dollars flow out when people finish the course SPEAKER_10: and it's just a way for you to have a little skin in the game so i really love this program if you can't afford it find a friend who will give you their credit card and for 12 weeks and then you have skin in the game so i want to see you take some risk here but it's a great program i spend uh two of the weeks with the with the folks that take pitches and we invest 25k and typically five to 10 of the graduates so it's a way for us to meet just future founders we give them 25k at a one million dollar valuation just you know set up their companies like 2.5 2.5 of the company for 25k that's a great deal for us it's a great deal for you we take all the risk of giving you money to set up your own corporation etc it'll be uh just a great time i guarantee you're going to love it founder.university and um don't worry molly will be back tomorrow for another amazing episode of this week in startup see you later bye bye