SPEAKER_00: i have all the offers from capital one tick tock meta but those are all like like practice for the big one which i knew was going to be amazon because that's like the the fame that everybody knows the technology is really not rocket science here like i'm putting together two two concepts that uh have existed before in the past it's just loms kind of make it like everything hackable so you

SPEAKER_03: ended up using this service called interview coder and got an offer from amazon and then instead of accepting it you posted a video on youtube of the actual process of using your tool oh yeah to hoodwink the amazon guys and then someone snitched and then everything kind of

SPEAKER_06: exploded did you leak it yourself or did you get snitched on someone saw the video when it was at

SPEAKER_00: about like 20 000 views some amazon executive saw the video and then they reported to columbia and

SPEAKER_09: all they did was post the letter that they sent to columbia so they wait a second amazon's a rat amazon's a cheese eater they ate cheese on you they ratted you out to the university that's exactly

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SPEAKER_17: conditions apply all right everybody welcome back to this week in startups it is monday it is march

SPEAKER_19: 10th there's a lot going on including here in austin texas south by southwest with me again alex wilhelm how you doing alex i'm doing fantastically spring is in the air there's a spring in my step

SPEAKER_21: uh i didn't realize how sad i was but now i'm happy again great i'm taking my daughter skiing next

SPEAKER_18: week so i'm very excited to get my last week of two final weeks of skiing in to try to hit my stretch goal of 41 days to ski i'm at 24 so i got a little ways to go here but i might get it done uh if not i got to go to new zealand it won't be uh or somewhere i don't know south america somewhere if you want to follow along on this week in startups go to thisweekinstartups.com slash docket you'll see the docket we go live monday wednesday friday 12 p.m texas time 1 p.m right coast 10 a.m left coast and about 80 of the show winds up in the podcast feed where you can watch it on your favorite podcast player or youtube but you get a little extra show 20 more show some call-ins and some fun and some banter if you follow us there he's at alex on twitter x i'm at jason on twitter x some community news we have a twist subreddit r slash twi startups we have a twitter community it's in the docket if you want to go there you also have the twist ticker this is where we talk about startup news and the twist 500 the 500 top private companies that we're trying to get on the program this year

SPEAKER_20: and you can subscribe to the twist ticker at thisweekinstartups.com slash ticker jason before we

SPEAKER_06: do any serious news though can i bring up the fact that uh micro strategy has put together a quote sales agreement which they're going to put out 21 billion dollars worth of stock to buy more bitcoin

SPEAKER_18: wow that's um that's wow we've had a big couple of weeks in crypto obviously the president said he would be the crypto president and uh he is starting to um do just that there was a crypto summit on friday and david sachs uh who is the crypto czar of course came on all in and did a brief uh discussion

SPEAKER_31: with me over kind of i call him the wolf of the white house just kind of cleaning up the mess uh and the things that are getting knocked over sometimes when trump tweets something early or they do something interesting in crypto i'm being trying to be a little generous here of uh the sort of captain chaos that can happen with trump you know he says a lot of stuff and people take it seriously always remember jake how's 72 hour rule of trump waits 72 hours before reacting it's

SPEAKER_06: it's hard to do i try to apply that because i think it's actually pretty good advice to not lose my mind every time trump is like we're gonna buy greenland and put it into south america yeah but

SPEAKER_03: the problem with that applied to the tariffs issue in particular is that it feels like the winds can

SPEAKER_36: shift like there's never a point in which there's a decision or a thing and then you can wait and then

SPEAKER_18: see because it changes so much in between yeah i mean if you were a day trader you know you got to trade on the trump news all the time because it does impact markets but if you're a civilian and

SPEAKER_30: you got your money in the you know stock market you got a long-term outlook yeah i think it applies but you know the stock market's got to get used to this as well because the stock market does react in real time they don't pay attention to my 72-hour rule and you know you're just going to have an easier better life if you deploy the 72-hour rule for micro strategies they have 400 000 bitcoin or 500 000

SPEAKER_03: bitcoin somewhere in there but the shares of that company are off uh 14.4 today now there is a sell off jason but like that's still a no matter what happens in the world you don't want to lose one

SPEAKER_44: seventh of your market cap in a single day yeah it's going to have severe volatility obviously the

SPEAKER_27: markets right now are down one and a half percent for the dow 30 almost 3.7 for nasdaq so this is

SPEAKER_46: pretty significant sell-off obviously the tariff stuff and you know fears of a recession stagflation just a lot of

SPEAKER_18: fear and uncertainty out there fear uncertainty and doubt no bueno for markets great opportunity to

SPEAKER_49: buy the dip obviously if you have any cash laying around in my mind if i did if i was sitting on a ton of cash you know i'd probably be selectively nibbling on stuff but yeah you know i think the

SPEAKER_30: the net asset value of micro strategies and the valuation are obviously going to at some point

SPEAKER_52: crossover just like you know any inevitability trump's popularity rating went like 10 bips over you know to disapproval took biden seven months to get there it took trump seven weeks so the honeymoon is clearly

SPEAKER_30: over now and here we are into what people forgot which was you know there is a chaos trade there is a

SPEAKER_18: captain chaos as i call the president's alter ego he can create a lot of chaos and markets what's important for founders and market participants i think is to focus on creating value right and so we're going to do that here on the show i'm going to just create a ton of value value for value you tune in maybe you uh go to some of the advertisers and uh you know use their services if they're appropriate and then we provide them value by bringing the audience together and there's just a ton of docket to get through micro strategies will trade i predict at less to their net asset value

SPEAKER_56: so if they have 400 000 bitcoin or let's say they have 500 500 yeah 500 000 which makes them i think the number one owner of bitcoin now maybe the government uh u.s government is the other 500 000

SPEAKER_31: times 8 40 billion what's the market cap so i mean they should trade at i think 80 of 40 billion would be what i would say is fair market 32 billion well well they're at discount 62 after losing

SPEAKER_03: 14 point now 65 today so still a little spicy for our for our tastes but they uh are gonna buy a lot

SPEAKER_65: more bitcoin so i think people that are hopeful that people will give them money right that requires

SPEAKER_20: cash right so this is an offering it's true they're not the market offering over time so there won't be

SPEAKER_03: 21 billion dollars in one day but it does seem that they are still uh without slowing down perhaps even

SPEAKER_20: speeding up jason still going forward with this strategy so you got to give michael points michael sailor

SPEAKER_30: he believes it he's invited on the program anytime to uh discuss the strategy i think he should trade at below the net asset value he believes he should trade that above right now it's trading at a 50

SPEAKER_18: premium i believe so maybe it's 1.5 times 1.4 times there's a bunch of websites that will help you track that yes i will say it's pretty interesting south by southwest is back in a major way i think i have five speaking gigs events this week i did opening keynote with bill gurley on friday where he interviewed me which is kind of weird since he's always been a mentor toward me to me and from him to interview me has felt a little bit weird but that was quite fun we did a full hour and you know the room was like giant room two thirds full uh which you know it's the first day so the people are still getting here saturday uh dignation i got to hang out with the boys from dignation alex and kevin rose if you don't know dignation was like a podcast or a web show before podcasting existed they relaunched dig on stage dig.com is coming so there'll be another reddit uh so we'll probably

SPEAKER_66: participate in that i'm an advisor to the firm i haven't signed the paper or whatever but i told

SPEAKER_30: them i'd be an advisor it was fun chris sacco is there tim ferris interviewed ev williams about his

SPEAKER_19: new app have you tried his new app yet this is the private social network if memory serves it is called uh mozi as in mozi on along m-o-z-i it's kind of four square ish it's beautifully designed

SPEAKER_30: simple app you upload your address book and then it finds your friends and then you can put in your trips but it doesn't just like sync your calendar or anything crazy like that it's quite manual you hit the plus key you say where you're going or a local plan or a trip and if it's like firm or not i mean then you could share the plan with people and um it was quite nice to use it during south

SPEAKER_18: by because i found out about two or three events i would not have known about so here we are back to

SPEAKER_03: the future i love this i also love that the the latest update to mozi has brought in local plans

SPEAKER_06: for people that aren't always on a plane yes you can definitely tell though who is behind this it's uh people who fly a whole lot like ev does i'm sure and like yourself frankly but for those of us who

SPEAKER_30: stay put it's for the executive class i think probably in the nomadic you know class interestingly at the event you know i i always try to check the tick tock to see what the kids are up to and um rivian is underwriting the whole event by the way super interesting to see rivian they've had a little bit of a tough a tough time i see that they're doing some commercial business which is interesting they launched today a ben and jerry's collaboration so i think there are people don't know but rivian do they build the trucks for amazon as well yes that was their that was their kind of keystone

SPEAKER_02: partnership through the ipo and if i recall now they're also selling these vehicles to other

SPEAKER_79: people not just amazon founders i know you're swamped you got a ton of stuff to do on your plate you know there's a lot of chores you got to juggle your priorities and that's why i want to tell you about coda that's what i use to keep everything under control it's an all-in-one platform and it's going to consolidate documents spreadsheets and apps you have running into a single scalable workspace with an amazing ui so code is going to help you set all your okrs you know that's objectives and key results and you're going to get access to hundreds of templates for tasks like setting priorities and mapping dependencies at this week in startups we use coda every single day for important projects like the twist 500 and founder university why do we use it well because we have all these portfolio companies who have tons of information and they submit updates and the beauty of code is it's so flexible we can use it for everything from tracking those companies to tracking their pitches to board updates and it all can live in one place and we don't get software overload we don't have 20 different sas products that everybody needs to learn they need to learn how to use one so instead of juggling all these different tools you got one platform and the whole team is super organized it's really intuitive the workflows are seamless and getting more powerful by the day so here's your call to action coda empowers your startup to strategize plan and track goals effectively take advantage of this limited time offer just for startups go to coda.io twist today and get six months free of the team plan that's coda.io twist to get started for free and get six months of the team

SPEAKER_30: plan really interesting to see rivian here kind of showing off their doing and this is i think a trend which i want to start with you and propose here which is the 20k new car the 20k new car is my new trend 20k all day i think that's what we'll call it here's rivian that's their truck you can see that's the very iconic similar looking truck the amazon truck you see in your neighborhood so this kind of truck is called a sprinter or like a ford uh transit it's it's a specific type of utility truck typically they have and you can see you can use it for a mobile ice cream like uh kind of situation so kind of interesting that to me is smart for rivian because those corporate customers will be consistent in a market where you know maybe we're going to see a 20k car so this is like a new trend you know you come here and you hear trends we've been talking about byd a whole bunch we've been talking

SPEAKER_31: about the robo taxi being built for i think eon said he can get it down to 35k or something 30k pretty typical to buy a 10 to 20k car in china right now in uh the middle east in south america you know indonesia singapore all over asia you're going to start seeing 20k 30k new cars and uh some of them might have self-driving on them they'll be battery powered so here it is

SPEAKER_32: rivian pack will be available to everyone in volkswagen's latest ev so this is um i think a sign

SPEAKER_46: that maybe rivian is having uh some challenges they got to get some partnerships going they need money other people have needs like drivetrains or technology so very interesting trend what do you

SPEAKER_06: think of that this is what it looks like from the front from the side from the back from this and let me tell you jason this is precisely and exactly what i have wanted look at this thing why is this

SPEAKER_03: what you want because i live in a town that was designed for horses and if you live in dallas or houston you live in a town designed for cars big wide streets good turning radius but here in providence if you drive a full-size american pickup you're essentially driving a tank through town so i need

SPEAKER_06: a car that is electric because i want to go electric is small and is fancy and those are actually hard to find because everyone wants to sell you um a more expensive vehicle so i love this this looks perfect

SPEAKER_30: for me i always felt like bmw made a mistake with the mini cooper which i don't know what the entry price is for the mini cooper but i felt they should have got that like down to 20k and i think they probably start more like in the 35 40. i guess they're going for like a luxury small car with that hatchback version but i do believe these cars could get young people into car ownership again at a time when well think about it is there anything like desirable at about driving no offense to like a honda fit i think what are like the entry level 25k cars like the honda fit like these little gas powered i don't know what the entry level toyota is it's not the camry or the honda record it's kind of like the honda

SPEAKER_97: fit and there's a toyota one they're like ringy ding cars they feel cheap they're not sexy in any way

SPEAKER_18: but i do think a sexy fun volswagon bug type car which this kind of feels like yeah yeah mitsubishi

SPEAKER_34: mirage 2.5 cheapest car cheapest cars the number one got a 2.5 out of 10. is it 17k oh my god look

SPEAKER_105: it's 18k for a nissan versa wow not bad and the mitsubishi mirage g4 the centra and then the electric

SPEAKER_03: elantra and so there's there's cheap stuff out there but not really in the electric departments here's the question that i have though 20 000 electric cars if they become popular and let's say the the big three likes to sell you a truck for 80. does that collapse the total value of north

SPEAKER_06: american car shipments because that could impact tesla rivian yeah i i think this is just going to

SPEAKER_18: be a very interesting confluence of like a lot of different trends you got the tariff trend you got the

SPEAKER_30: ev trend you got the self-driving trend you've got the going full uber trend like why should i own a car and so to every action there's a reaction and so in this like startup landscape what we're seeing is car companies saying we hear you you are a young person you don't think you need a car because of lyft and uber and waymo and soon robo taxes from tesla you're commitment phobic hey what if we lowered it down to 20 and it was an ev and it was kind of sexy and and and so that's what i think is happening here and one of the great things about capitalism uh your cup is going to run it over young people

SPEAKER_31: are zipping around on these um i'm getting obsessed with this other startup category all right so there's a really interesting person making these electric unicycles electric unicycles is the

SPEAKER_79: category uh in motion is the company this is the state-of-the-art one it's the in motion v13 pro

SPEAKER_31: ooh 32.99 and look at how sexy this thing is it's gorgeous oh going down stairs that's bold

SPEAKER_18: yeah these things like you're watching and see how it's got i mean this is like the biggest state-of-the-art

SPEAKER_30: one but this guy's going probably 50 60 miles an hour on it there's like a 35 mile an hour one but

SPEAKER_31: it can go up curbs so and it's got a handle and you can walk it in restaurants or whatever and you can pick it up so these things are going to change the world i think this is what a segue should have been okay and there's like a model from like maybe a thousand all the way up to like i said 3500 different speeds different battery lives different power profiles different acceleration you got to wear a helmet with it but there's a guy zipping around austin and he is cleaning up because he doesn't need to park a car or lock a bike he is i i follow him on youtube and tiktok he'll go drive

SPEAKER_30: in pick up the burrito and get it to your place and he doesn't have to stop look at how cool these things are how cool of a world would this be if they were everywhere you just gotta wear you know like segways my wife was on a segway we went on a segway tour in paris it's like a great speed to go at you think you're going like i don't know eight nine ten miles an hour on a segway maybe up 12 these

SPEAKER_31: things can go 20 or 30 but you don't fall on them uh as easily now because they have the the gyros in them they help you not fall and they can go on bumps but here's like the segway tour in paris and we were riding on this thing it's like the great speed to go around they have these tours all over europe the problem was my wife was like talking to somebody and she just the wheel hit like a little piece of stone that was like attached to a turn or something like a wall and boom she went flying off of it she was fine you know she had the elbow pads on and the wrist guards but you could break your your wrist but see how they're driving along cambridge and we just

SPEAKER_49: she kind of just clipped onto a little lamppost or something like the edge of one of those walls

SPEAKER_31: i think that's like the interesting future what do you think alex you ride one of those around

SPEAKER_06: uh p-town is this a p-town kind of thing i would because i'm married and have children so the

SPEAKER_03: dweeb factor doesn't doesn't doesn't impact me the thing that i'll say is i have in san francisco they've had earlier versions of these for some time and they have acquired to them a certain

SPEAKER_06: reputation for for dweebery and so as we look to save the birth rate crisis in north america perhaps we should get back to muscle cars before unicycles well yeah that's what i want to get is that

SPEAKER_32: new corvette zr1 the cr1 i'm drooling over it nailing product market fit is every founder's

SPEAKER_120: top priority but once you've got your product dialed in you need to focus on selling it especially to big customers you know we call them lighthouse customers some people call them whales to land those deals your security compliance has to be rock solid certificates like sock 2 or iso 27001

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SPEAKER_31: i know this sounds stupid that a unicycle would actually become like a winning format but these electric unicycles um are really going to change things because you can drive them indoors and then they also are kind of like off-road vehicles so people are really getting into these you can spend between a thousand like three thousand on these and um they look really sharp these are like something out of um blade runners so look for this as a trend electric unicycles are coming so i want to meet one of the startup founders these things are all the rage in hong kong and and china why are they the rage well because you can drive them right into your apartment people are in austin driving into restaurants picking up the to-go orders and then riding to people's apartments driving into the lobbies or they have a handle on them so when you get in the lobby if the door person's like hey no no bueno

SPEAKER_03: right you just pick it up just pick it up speaking about young people zipping around and doing things we have a guest today jason that is a student still or was a student and recently found fame for essentially hacking the big technology technical interview game now if you've ever applied for a job

SPEAKER_06: at a fang company as a developer i'm sure you're familiar with the technical interview i don't know binary trees inverted link lists i don't know there's buzzwords out there about how these go

SPEAKER_03: but one guy roy lee from columbia made a system to hack around it posted the video online got snitched on got in trouble with columbia got his amazon offer yoinked but he turned it into a product and we

SPEAKER_06: love founder hackers here so please welcome to the show it's roy lee hey roy what's up guys hey roy

SPEAKER_52: looks like you're the main character thank you thank you yes so but before they come in and arrest you uh

SPEAKER_133: yeah for crimes against uh interviewing where are you from suwannee georgia it's like okay you grew

SPEAKER_134: up in georgia i guess you were a hacker kid you've been on the internet since day one yeah something like that yeah and when did you learn to become a developer honestly i i i don't know like i wasn't

SPEAKER_138: really interested in programming until uh after high school and then to be honest like i started learning like when i was 19 um so it was it was for for silicon valley that's like 65 so yeah exactly you're so far behind the curve yeah yeah and transparently in high school i thought i was going to be an investment banker or for golden sacks which is like the craziest thing ever right yeah i mean listen

SPEAKER_31: it's an interesting job but what you're doing is you're you're just moving numbers around on a

SPEAKER_30: spreadsheet it's not actually fun it just happens to pay well at the start because it takes your soul and it erases years of your life so if you'd like to like give up 10 years of your life and then at the

David Friedberg: end of it be like what just happened that's what it's like so you're at columbia what year are you in

SPEAKER_148: yes i'm a sophomore right now you're a sophomore okay so you were there during all those crazy

SPEAKER_149: protests last year huh i was not actually i transferred in here last semester so last year i was at community college and then i just transferred into columbia and now this is like

SPEAKER_39: my first and a half semester so you you got to columbia and then immediately just threw a grenade

SPEAKER_153: behind you as you were walking in i mean i got to columbia and like the first thing i like i just knew

SPEAKER_00: i wasn't going to be here to graduation so i went and i talked to 50 50 people who seem smart and i asked every single one of them hey do you want to start a company with me and the one guy that said yes is the guy that i ended up doing all the energy coder stuff with got it all right so tell us what what's

SPEAKER_158: the idea for this startup and then tell me about the event let's talk about the event oh yeah so yeah

SPEAKER_00: this is the website i mean uh the the thesis is very simple we code we could style technical interviews have been around for something like 20 years i don't know a single developer that likes them and i myself went through the gauntlet i did about like 600 questions which is definitely like i'd say probably standard deviation or two above the average but i'm a bit of a perfectionist so so i felt like i had to get it right but it was it was just not a fun time i love programming when i run out when i started because it's exciting to build things this doesn't really teach you how to build things at all it's just like a massive waste of time so um i thought what is the most viral stunt i

SPEAKER_149: can do to get rid of this because of course you need to be famous on twitter if you want to be a founder

SPEAKER_162: and uh also you have to get the audience first so explain to people what these coding tests are

SPEAKER_00: and why they exist in your mind yeah i'll sit you down imagine you're like an 18 year old freshman at the university of minnesota and i'm some big bad amazon exec and i'll ask you hey can you find me all the inverse palindromic sub sequences of even length while doing a handstand and 10 jumping jacks and essentially it'll ask you some insane riddle riddle-esque question that um like really even if you were albert einstein you wouldn't be able to solve this so the challenge here is have you seen this

SPEAKER_149: problem before solved it memorize the solution and can you regurgitate the memorized solution without acting like you've seen the problem before and that's that's the challenge got it so it's a bit

SPEAKER_167: performative in your mind because you know like it's it's not actually testing how hard you work

SPEAKER_30: your grit well how good of a teammate you'll be you know and what maybe it should be it's just testing on your feet have you seen the question before kind of like the sats in some ways right like have

SPEAKER_149: you seen these sap questions before very similar my mom does an sat preparatory academy so i'm very

SPEAKER_03: aware so tell me about interview coder itself and how you built it and then actually used it

SPEAKER_56: to go through the amazon process and what was the screen we showed before just so we can um explain it to

SPEAKER_34: the yeah that was roy's leet code profile showing off all of his work in leet code leet code is a place

SPEAKER_95: where people go and do these tests like just so we explain to the audience yeah yeah it's like a

SPEAKER_00: an agglomeration of all the problems that you might encounter you can like go through the problems and you can you can train yourself it's like a little training camp for technical interviews so this is

SPEAKER_175: like um kaplan sat prep in a way exactly exactly in a website it's uh it's a it's an independent

SPEAKER_31: company right it's not an open source project yeah independent company it's an independent company i

SPEAKER_18: guess you pay for it they got a premium version or something that's how they make money exactly yeah

SPEAKER_183: yeah yeah yeah okay so yeah show us what you did and um how you hacked the system as it were

SPEAKER_00: essentially i used pretty much all of the fall recruiting cycle as like uh like practice grounds for testing the product like i have i have all the offers from like capital one tick tock meta but those are all like like practice for the big one which i knew was gonna be amazon because that's like the the thing that everybody knows and the product was developed throughout the recruiting cycle but the core product really only took me about four days to make it's a very simple electron app with a react front end and the back end is some serverless functions that we host on vercel essentially i mean it's really simple right all you got to do is like take a screenshot of the screen and then ask chadjapati to solve a problem the only thing that's hard is i'm making it invisible um but electron actually comes with a lot of native built-ins like the technology is really not rocket science here like like i'm putting together two two concepts that uh have existed before in the past it's just loms kind of make

SPEAKER_30: it like everything hackable when you have to take the test with an amazon they're doing it over zoom

SPEAKER_163: i assume or some sort of service they have like a custom screen sharing thing called and they use

SPEAKER_00: amazon chime but a lot of a lot of the interviews from what i hear from like my friends who are and people who are using the product like sometimes they'll ask you to screen share sometimes they

SPEAKER_167: don't so they want to watch you code how long do these interviews typically take

SPEAKER_149: today um the interview might be somewhere like 45 minutes to an hour but they shave off 15 minutes for

SPEAKER_30: just talking time got it got it so you got a half hour of practically writing code in front of them answering their questions showing that you can't you qualify for the job and uh how long does it take to get one of these you know for the average person right now because we've heard about static team size they're not hiring a lot of people people think well my developers are getting 20 30 faster every year so why would i hire more developers i can just cut the weak ones and make the best ones 20 stronger so

SPEAKER_52: what's it like out there on the streets trying to get a developer job yeah i mean hiring market well

SPEAKER_00: to be honest i've heard that the hiring market is brutal but like i'm really i'm a sophomore i don't really know uh what it was like two years ago so i i really couldn't tell you but i've just heard

SPEAKER_30: that yeah yeah yeah very few jobs so it's getting they they can demand more of everybody applying

SPEAKER_18: is a i guess a simple way to say it so in the old days if you had four or five job offers getting people to go on for two or three hours and do two or three interviews and code so much maybe they wouldn't do it because they got a job offer so quick yeah yeah but now things are quite different

SPEAKER_03: and so you ended up using this service called interview coder and got an offer from amazon and then instead of accepting it you posted a video on youtube of the actual process of using your tool

SPEAKER_06: to hoodwink the amazon guys and then someone snitched and then everything kind of exploded did

SPEAKER_00: you leak it yourself or did you get snitched on uh well so someone saw the video when it was at about like 20 000 views some amazon executives saw the video and then they reported it to columbia and all

SPEAKER_09: they did was post the letter that they sent to columbia so they wait a sec amazon's a rat amazon's a cheese eater they ate cheese on you they ratted you out to the university that's exactly what happened

SPEAKER_52: do we have the letter i can see this so now what's going on with your mom does your mom know yet

SPEAKER_198: my mom my mom learned about this like three days ago like a couple days ago you're screwed dude honestly she's been pretty cool about it like surprisingly extremely cool about it she knows i'm doing something ballsy and uh she knows i'm making a lot more money off this than it would have over a summer at amazon so okay so she's actually happy she's a gen x or maybe she's a little punk rock your mom what's the story no not at all she's about as korean as you as it gets uh

SPEAKER_137: oh i'm korean as you can tell my wife's korean i'm i'm deep in korean culture i i get it all right

SPEAKER_207: we all know if you're a founder or even if you're on a small business you're thinking about your company

SPEAKER_208: 24 7 365 days a year that's the life of a founder this is not clock in clock out nine to five gig for you as the business owner so when you're hiring you want a partner that's as equally as committed as you are and that's of course linkedin jobs linkedin jobs is like your co-founder they're going to make it so simple for you to post your jobs for free on linkedin where there are 1 billion members you're going to be able to share what you're posting and actually keep all the promising candidates organized in one place and also linkedin is going to help you quickly write a job and get it in front of the right people whether you want to post for free or use some promotion to get it in front of even more qualified applicants so do me a favor don't take my word for it i mean you should i know what i'm talking about is where i find my great people but just understand that 72 of small businesses using linkedin said that it helped them find the best candidates so find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses already use linkedin for hiring so here's your call to action post your job for free why wouldn't you do it it's free f-r-e-e that's a good price linkedin.com twist once again that's linkedin.com twist to post your job for free terms and conditions do apply i can't find the

SPEAKER_06: actual letter from amazon on your twitter roy but i i'm seeing repeated letters from columbia university to you that you have posted which is hilarious and if i recall correctly you're supposed to go in front of a

SPEAKER_02: a probationary board or something tomorrow are you are you going to go yeah yeah i mean i'm already

SPEAKER_149: on probation but i'm supposed to there's like another disciplinary hearing that i'm supposed to go on tomorrow and actually tomorrow is because they're mad that i leaked all the documents so that's

SPEAKER_45: what i'm getting in trouble all right so you're fried you're fried you're barbecue sauce man you're

SPEAKER_216: listen you're going right you're korean barbecue right now my friend you're the guy i'll be in this

SPEAKER_35: no but you're the bugogi i i gotta say i really i really disagree because like i mean this is actually

SPEAKER_76: a little bit punk rock it's a little bit hacky and i feel like we've lost that vibe in silicon

SPEAKER_30: valley and so he's barbecue sauce i'll tell you what's going to happen here colombia they need to have good relations with the hiring people somebody comes in and breaks this i think you're done

SPEAKER_220: i think they're kicking you out bro man it's possible it's possible isn't that the idea though

SPEAKER_03: because roy you said in an interview with gizmodo quote most human intelligence work is going to be obsolete in two years so i have two years to make something happen so i presume that you didn't really intend to stay at colombia and you just wanted to make a big splash build something and

SPEAKER_197: make a lot of money off of it i mean viva yeah yeah i mean i i i as soon as i got here i sort of knew that i wouldn't be able to see myself through graduation um i knew that i'd drop out eventually

SPEAKER_00: but this would it would be really funny if i got kicked out just because i mean like like ai is growing so much faster than like everybody realizes i mean if you're on twitter then i think you're pretty early if you know what cloud code is you're pretty early but the rest of the world hasn't caught up and as soon as the rest of the world catches up and realize realizes how unintelligent you have to be or how not competent at programming you can be and still make a really cool app like there's probably like every cs major in the world could probably have figured out interview coder if

SPEAKER_30: they just hacked away at cursor for long enough so when you're using interview coder you basically start doing a coding test and is it doing the typing for you and faking the typing or is it just in one

SPEAKER_52: screen showing you the answer while you're in the other screen doing the other thing or you put it on your phone on your desk and you look down at your phone in the cradle what's the best practice it's

SPEAKER_153: like a desktop application that opens up you can't have it do the typing for you because uh a lot of

SPEAKER_00: the uh they a it's very hard to randomize typing speed because the browsers will detect what what what sort of things that you're clicking and be a lot of these a lot of these things that are that are typed for you they do the key down correctly but they never get the key up right which which the browser all logs and that's that's all specific suspicious activity the um the best way to do it is just to show you the answer have a movable overlay that you can put right on top of your coder see

SPEAKER_180: so your eyes are like shifting making it look like you're looking at a different screen so you do a

SPEAKER_30: little uh i understand let me tell you what i used to do yeah yeah i had the best hack when i was in civilian high school we would do a vocabulary test so i was obsessed with cheating like you i didn't consider it cheating but i considered it like an interesting way to understand things and what i figured out was if you took a yellow legal pad an empty one and then you put a piece of cardboard under the first piece of paper right then you put a piece of paper on that top piece of paper then i would take a pen or a pencil and i would write nice and heavy what the vocabulary words were and then i would say a word that would remind me of the definition so i would go down that vocabulary list then i would take the top sheet throw it in the garbage then i would take the cardboard underneath the first sheet and it would be blank but if i looked at it from an angle i could see the indentations right and certainly if i took my pencil and i you know did it from the side it would fill it in and i could it would reveal it but i never needed to reveal it i kid you not i would do this for four pages down in my yellow legal pad i would have four pages of notes

SPEAKER_31: about every definition everything history so when i was taking my notes in history class i was doing this technique four pages deep sometimes i would do it from the back of the legal pad so if they came and they you know somebody needed an extra piece of paper they would never know it was on the back one so i just flip it whatever yeah the interesting thing about this hack was the nature of doing the hack and taking the notes meant i didn't need to use the notes because you actually did the work because i did the work right yeah yeah yeah but i was obsessed with how cheating occurs and you came up with something really good was you figured out the eye contact was super important and that's yeah yeah right so you forget hey if i transparency layer this they're never going to find it right exactly super smart yes i immediately thought you you put it on your phone so if i'm

SPEAKER_124: looking at eyesight here and i look down at my keyboard down on my keyboard i could have my phone

SPEAKER_02: down here mirroring my desktop yeah i have the amazon letter here and um you'll note that it

SPEAKER_03: says do not distribute but uh too late you can't read this i'm going to read the the highlighted sections for you okay yeah discussing roy quote his performance was spectacular and then quote soon

SPEAKER_06: after i the amazon guy received a link to a youtube video created by roy in which he showed himself using an invisible cheating tool to gain an unfair and unapproved advantage during the interview process

SPEAKER_247: later on we trust in colombia to take proper action with regards to this student so amazon this is

SPEAKER_248: amazon yeah bro what's up with this what a bunch of cheese eaters at amazon i mean if amazon could do

SPEAKER_03: this in a business process they would get a high five and a promotion i mean all right so let's talk

SPEAKER_30: let's talk brass tacks you come from an independently wealthy family uh or you know they got like the 50k 100k

SPEAKER_252: to spot you to do the startup or no not very wealthy no middle class yeah i mean i i i would say middle

SPEAKER_56: top or middle class okay good same as me i was like lower middle class but yeah same same zone all right

SPEAKER_18: listen you're gonna get kicked out tomorrow but if not you're gonna leave anyway so um i like the punk rock nature of this um you haven't raised money yet right you're not even incorporated are you

SPEAKER_138: incorporated yeah yeah we incorporated a few weeks ago when we saw the stripe graph move and we were

SPEAKER_256: worried about taxes and did you take that angel check yet you got our first investor yeah oh you

SPEAKER_138: got a check yeah i mean we did the z fellows program so shout out z fellows this is a great program so so so we have a couple thousand dollars what's the fellows how does that oh it's like a it's like a one week wow corey's gonna love this yeah yeah this is like a one week incubator it's like your first your first one week 10k yeah it's like your first check into silicon valley yeah and

SPEAKER_00: they they just get a bunch of a bunch of young kids together oh yeah yeah yeah i've heard of this

David Friedberg: and then corey writes your first check and so what do they get for that one percent or something it's

SPEAKER_157: a it's an equity check it's it's at a billion dollar post money valuation so essentially it's a free

SPEAKER_52: ten thousand dollars oh but it converts at the next round it's probably a billion dollar cap but it converts at the next round so you do y combinator or something or you do our accelerator convert all right so you have customers for this product or no yeah well yeah yeah i mean for interview

SPEAKER_197: coder we have many customers but we're thinking we i think that the underlying technology can be

SPEAKER_00: expanded into many different verticals uh and and that's that's what i'm what i'm thinking tackling next there's not much money in technical recruiting and interviews and there's even less money when

SPEAKER_253: you're on the side of the interviewee so uh yeah that's true right you're not getting the 10k

SPEAKER_31: for placing the person but i mean listen if you're smart enough to figure that part out you can figure everything out you can figure out the countermeasures so you're an arms dealer

SPEAKER_124: now you can figure out actually a better way possible listen sometimes you sell you know f-15s

SPEAKER_30: to one side and then oh other side bought f-16s they paid a higher price they're a little bit faster they got they got a 10 edge maybe the other side should upgrade you know maybe they want

SPEAKER_03: to go to f-18s i don't know uh how many customers do you have now and how fast is that growing because you say it's a small market but i also saw you guys added hindi so i presume that you have people demanding access to this product in their native language too yeah yeah uh we have

SPEAKER_00: like outside of america india and china are are probably obviously like our biggest customers but um it's really largely americans i think it's probably 75 americans like literally yesterday

SPEAKER_149: last night we just crossed the 1 million run rate so um oh this has become like a real startup here okay

SPEAKER_30: so you're you're way past even needing funding oh then don't take any money from anybody just build this thing off of revenue don't sell any shares to anybody ever you're like the you guys could be

SPEAKER_18: like the you know two or three million dollars per employee right now you have two people working on it so you're half million per employee yeah something like that yeah so just keep going that way don't take anybody's money just add a zero be a five million own the company sweep like five million dollars in profits two two or three million dollars each every year you make 30 million over those years you hired three or four people to do the work for you and when you sell the company if you ever do

SPEAKER_31: you're gonna own 90 percent of it it's a much better thing to do i've been telling people this is gonna happen because look i'm the earliest stage investor there is and i miss this right so yeah

SPEAKER_39: you don't need anybody i think it's really funny how much power that letter made it's made it seem that columbia and amazon have but over roid they have none ah i mean i i i like people have the agency

SPEAKER_19: how are you thinking about fundraising and running the company tell me your vision for this what are the

SPEAKER_153: vibes interview coder itself is is probably not gonna get me to where i would like to be later in life

SPEAKER_00: um but i i i think we've uncovered some some really key ux assumptions here and uh i think we're first to market for this i don't think anybody else has figured this out because nobody else has been trying to desperately to come up with the most undetectable invisible overlay but because i have i think it's uncovered like like like something very big and i think i'm on to something really big here uh there's a couple people i'd like to hire and uh i i i don't think our current revenue is um is going to be enough okay so you're thinking about doing a small race what are you thinking

SPEAKER_149: not exactly sure right now not exactly sure right now we're still working out the details a couple

SPEAKER_284: of people they're going to cost 10k a month or something they aren't sure they're offshore they

SPEAKER_153: work from home uh yeah yeah i mean there there's a couple other expenses but i don't want to give too much away but but we're we're going to launch in about a week and a half and it'll be like okay

SPEAKER_253: the most ambitious version of interview coder you could imagine love it so what do you think you

SPEAKER_31: want to raise what's the i'll give you some advice uh to the extent yeah you give a but apparently

SPEAKER_85: you're so punk rock it doesn't matter um so uh what is uh what is your plan in terms of raise what

SPEAKER_07: are you thinking uh just just just a small raise um i don't even know how much i'm allowed to say

SPEAKER_30: like isn't this like public solicitation or something no if you're not raising it's fine if i asked you theoretically what are you thinking of raising like if you yeah yeah if you had your druthers what would your dream be what what do you think you know i'm not asking you to like show like a business plan and a term sheet on the screen if you just directionally you want to raise a million a half million three

SPEAKER_138: million the directionally be some something like three to five probably oh you want to go right for

SPEAKER_79: a series a essentially yeah okay well i mean listen you got everybody's attention and you're at like a

SPEAKER_31: pretty sick run rate so you're possible you could do it yeah and then you have somebody join the board awesome next week you're going to launch something new huh or in two weeks very similar something very

SPEAKER_07: suddenly some something in the space yeah i think we've we've cracked some things got it yeah i mean

SPEAKER_31: if you've figured out some things about how ai lives on your desktop or lives with you it seems like the that that could be very powerful i think that's a pretty interesting concept you know there's a couple of people who are watching your entire desktop or watching your entire browser so yeah most people

SPEAKER_30: don't understand that this is the next level is the ai is living on your desktop and is watching what you're doing and you know going to start giving you suggestions it's kind of scary right for privacy reasons and for like what if this thing decides it wants to go buy a bunch of coffee for

SPEAKER_00: you uh it could get weird possibly yeah but i mean i i i just think it it's crazy to think that in even two years everybody will still be on chat gpt.com or perplexity.com like using a chatbot in his face like like that's definitely not where the future is headed right

SPEAKER_52: no it's going to be persistent right it's going to be in your ear talking to you the entire time it's going to be living on your desktop exactly exactly roy an absolute pleasure thank you so much

SPEAKER_06: for coming on and when you do drop whatever it is in a week and a half and you take the the wrappers off of it let me know because we are watching your career with great interest and um hats off to

SPEAKER_03: columbia you guys really got a great one and i'm yeah he's barbecued tomorrow you know what secretly

SPEAKER_31: record here's what you do secretly secretly record tomorrow and then get banned for life you gotta you're barbecued already good luck in your thing tomorrow for sure get a pair of uh glasses and secretly record it release the transcript i don't know stream it in real time whatever you gotta do because you're gonna wind up on like uh johnny carson you're gonna like literally be on bill maher this weekend if you can record that that's my best advice covertly record tomorrow that's the idea

SPEAKER_310: good luck thanks roy thank you guys wow see this is the future of uh venture capital you just saw it

SPEAKER_30: folks humiliating defeat for venture capitalists these young kids these whippersnappers they've basically got the ability now like this this kid gets it he's 21 he got the company to a million i said this before like what leverage does a vc have now he's like yeah i'll race three to five maybe but he's like a pegasus and i talked about this concept of a pegasus with com.com they went from a five million dollar valuation right to a 250. i was able to invest at the five million when they needed my help but after that they didn't really need help so the next stop you know it was an express

SPEAKER_31: train right to 250. that means like you know everybody in between wasn't able to secure a position in a high growth company in between because they didn't need you to do it so look roy doesn't need me he doesn't need y combinator he doesn't need tech stars he got that 10k check gave him a little bit of confidence from whatever that uh thing was kind of like our founder university where we give 25k but it's got me thinking like maybe i just got to give people 10k as they come into maybe

SPEAKER_79: i had to give them 10k on the way into founder university give them a 10k option a 25k option

SPEAKER_315: as an investor if you pick a team you got to just make the bet early is what i'm learning what

SPEAKER_03: did you think of that interaction well i it's very interesting because you raise a point that i don't have a dispute to how what do you offer someone who can show up with a little tool and make a lot of money really quickly and what i like about roy is that he didn't say we've invented something that's brand new we're going to change the world with our new technology he took off the shelf parts and built something awesome that people wanted and that's really encouraging to me it feels like the old days are like putting together your own circuit boards you know like here is a a time in which technology exists out there in disparate lego pieces that you can put together to build something people

SPEAKER_170: want that's so empowering to people doesn't fit neatly into the venture model jason but maybe i

SPEAKER_30: could see if i could slide 250 in at like a five million dollar evaluation and just say hey listen i'll do this real quick and then i'll get you into the i'll get you tickets to all the all-in summits

SPEAKER_52: and i'll get you backstage right uh like i gotta use intangibles and pot sweeteners now to get in

SPEAKER_62: this round yeah i mean how am i gonna get a slice of this i mean it's funny though how much on the

SPEAKER_06: same page we are in my notes prepping you know our our centers for this chat i literally wrote at the bottom someone should invest 500k into this kiddo now and it turns out i was too small and too late

SPEAKER_30: there's a great lesson here for founders if you get an audience first like he did with like a stunt like this then you get customers and revenue then you get venture capital or you get investment most people do the opposite they get money they get a product then they get attention flip it figure out how to

SPEAKER_79: get attention first now you've captured the world's attention and twitter is where old vcs like myself

SPEAKER_30: live all day long if you can capture attention there with some punk rock thing you've kind of proven like you're a rule breaker great you're kind of like steve jobs you're like zuck you're like travis you're like elon okay you know don't go too far don't go sbf you know don't steal something from colombia get kicked out okay but don't do fake blood tests don't theranos this don't sbf it you know there's a real lesson here get audience first mr beast got a huge audience then he got the business

SPEAKER_31: i have a huge audience you know then i invest in your company hopefully and i can use that audience to help you magnify your your voice so here we are uh well done to him and speaking of sbf yes hey speaking of criminal behavior and punk rock uh and the difference between the two here's what you know

SPEAKER_18: our previous guest doesn't want to do you don't want to end up being a rikers roy it's fun to do

SPEAKER_30: like you know break some rules at colombia just don't get into actual crimes um you know in ethics or whatever sank a sanction is is no big deal look at this uh sbf was on the tucker show and yes he was

SPEAKER_18: i saw somebody tweet i don't know if it's real or not i always give the caveat if it's real that he

SPEAKER_30: put into this document of how to rebound his image one of the things he said in terms of how he wanted to rebound his image and like one of these court documents that got seized was a google doc where he said go on tucker and go right wing to get a pardon from trump i guess as part of his master plan here's

SPEAKER_62: the court document that jason's referencing uh just because everyone wants to take a look this is from

SPEAKER_06: courtlistener.com and if you scroll down this is pulled from a google doc that he had put together and right here part three is go on tucker carlson come out as republican and then essentially come out quote against the woke agenda so here is for the results of that policy and we have a couple clips here jason i want to start with uh the one digging into how he communicated during the actual unfolding of the crisis itself let's take a listen here to our dear friend and everyone's favorite jailbird

SPEAKER_330: podcaster mr sbf i've had a lot of time to reflect on how to communicate and in retrospect you know i was i think i was not effective at communicating especially when the crisis first hit and you know in the in the months thereafter i made a mistake i often make i get swapped up in in details and uh forget to make the bigger picture you you seem like you were just flying high on

SPEAKER_333: adderall every time i saw you on tv you don't seem that way now were you no i wasn't but i was

SPEAKER_330: my mind was freezing because there were you know a billion things to keep track of i think he's lying

SPEAKER_52: i'll be honest he was on this um patch e-m-s-a-m m-sam patch from what i understand you know adderall's

SPEAKER_31: one level this thing is like a patch that gives you a consistent high um so he was on a lot of stuff

SPEAKER_62: here for example is a um an article from slate discussing exactly this sam bankman free confirmed

SPEAKER_06: he wears an instant patch what is that so i think right there we've determined jason there might be a slight credibility gap although you could argue that sbf uh was correct he was not high off flying high quote off adderall he may have been flying higher off of an instant patch so yeah this is where

SPEAKER_18: like um you know listen tucker's a great broadcaster obviously uh very dramatic so he's got the bravery

SPEAKER_30: to ask him if he was on it but i would have said hey were you on stimulants were you on sleeping pills legal prescription otherwise you know what what's the real deal here because you have

SPEAKER_31: you know admitted to using these other things because he did admit to using these things but hey listen i think like half the country all these young people are on some sort of a stimulant we've got an adderall shortage right wasn't there a shortage in the press last year so so many

SPEAKER_66: people are on this thing they can't make enough of it apparently so there's no shame in the medication

SPEAKER_65: game i guess unless you commit crimes this is sbf talking about uh trump's crypto approach because

SPEAKER_06: the context here is people are kind of thinking that sbf is is uh hamming it up for a pardon there was rumors about a biden pardon that never came to be uh but he now wants a trump pardon so here is tucker and sbf talking about trump and crypto you look at what the trump administration said you know

SPEAKER_330: going into office there are a lot of good things there are a lot of things that were very different from the stance that the biden administration took that that you can't learn the sec took obviously you know the follow-through is what matters and that's the stage that we're at now which is what will come of this not surprisingly changing the guard helps but financial regulators they're big giant bureaucracies in the federal government they're not used to changing overnight they have been playing a really obstructive role for you know a decade in crypto you know the us it's 30 of the world's finance it's about five percent of the world's crypto and the reason it's entirely regulatory it's just the us was unique in its difficulty to work with i think the big question is when rubber meets the road like will the administration do what needs to be done i was expecting him to say listen i would have been

SPEAKER_67: not guilty if they you know if they were pro-regulation at a different time i i should

SPEAKER_30: have been innocent if i was him and i was doing his defense i'd be like listen i'm like a 2010 cannabis dealer in santa monica who got arrested right and now in 2025 you can just walk in with a driver's license and buy you know a pound of cannabis and nobody cares that's his best defense in terms of getting a pardon i wouldn't buy it because he committed crimes yes but he might be able to work that angle

SPEAKER_62: uh anyway the lesson here for founders though apart from not doing fraud if you do do fraud and get put

SPEAKER_03: in prison make sure you get permission from the bureau of prisons for doing an interview because spf got into trouble for doing this uh from jail and i gotta say going on tucker looking for a pardon and instead getting your wings clip inside of prison is a pretty big self-own i mean

Chamath Palihapitiya: he did he say what he was doing from prison is illegal like how did he do that i'm not sure about

SPEAKER_44: the technical details but the bureau of prisons apparently put him into solitary i mean worth it

SPEAKER_30: then i mean worth it to get your word out yeah that is a weird uh thing to do i gotta find out technically how he did this because my understanding is i've been pitched on this and it's kind of a human rights issue there are these companies that let you do video conference from prison so you can

SPEAKER_31: you know talk to your family if you're in jail you're incarcerated they charge like a dollar a minute it's some ungodly amount that they're charging prisoners you just talk to their families i'll tell you what it should be free to talk to your family or close to free it should be one dollar an hour to talk to your family why people could talk to their family and people outside of prison you know obviously they got to record it transcribe it and make sure they're not doing deals you know code words or something i understand that there needs to be a little bit more infrastructure here because people from prison could be doing all kinds of nefarious stuff but the more you could talk to your family the better that probably is and i just hate the idea that they're abusing these prisoners and i hate the idea of solitary that is literally torture it is inhumane

SPEAKER_03: i cannot under underscore all that enough jason solitary is torture it should not be used ever profiteering off of prisoners is exceptionally gross this is my the basis of my view about private

SPEAKER_06: prisons in general but the good news the the bit of sunshine you can throw here on people is that there's a startup called emelio a-m-e-e-l-i-o and they are a non-profit startup trying to bring free

SPEAKER_03: video calling service to inmates to build connections and prevent recidivism recidivism recidivism yeah

SPEAKER_21: thank you that word i knew i can read it never said it out loud before there you go yeah my you know

SPEAKER_52: it's a very weird thing about my dyslexia like sometimes i just nail long words and other times i'm

SPEAKER_06: just can't even say short ones it's as long as the two of us together can say the words we're in good

SPEAKER_19: shape i can understand solitary like a short period of times if somebody is like beating or murdering

SPEAKER_31: somebody maybe but like you know because of like safety issues right for the for everybody but short

SPEAKER_02: of physical violence you should not be tortured mentally that's just it's just like we're supposed

SPEAKER_31: to be the good guys how you treat the most vulnerable people is how you can really judge a society i've always felt that how you treat the most vulnerable a homeless person a prisoner somebody who's flat broke somebody who's down on their knees uh you know um somebody who's handicapped in some way you know it doesn't need to be a literal handicap it could be anything emotional mental whatever on that regards with our prison system and our penal system in this country we fail greatly oh man i would love for there to be a private prison because i'm i too am against private prisons that ran an experiment of they got paid a fee i don't know 300 bucks a month for every month

SPEAKER_359: the person stayed out of prison and was productive so you get 50k a year to run the prison and then

SPEAKER_79: when the person leaves if they pay their taxes if they pass a drug test if they show up for work you get paid a residual for five years of five thousand a year for five years you get an extra 25k for them

SPEAKER_30: to stay out because the cost of keeping them in prison is 50k a year so if you came up with a 50k

SPEAKER_79: five-year plan or 25k 10-year plan whatever it is to get paid a bonus for them staying out of jail man that would be an incredibly interesting concept i know it's weird but no if you show me an incentive i will show you an outcome and the incentive right now is to get them back in prison

SPEAKER_31: so you can make 50k right but if the profit margin was 20 percent and you're making 10k a year of each one if we made the profit margin 10 for keeping them out that would be even better oh

SPEAKER_03: yeah because it's it's total profit also what this would do is it would incentivize investment into prisons for education for fitness for anything that helps build mental and physical health and they could essentially expect those costs to be recouped later on when people stay out of prison so it encourage better prison conditions so i i mean i know that we have a model an economic and mental and business model we use and it doesn't fit on everything but in this case i think incentives would

SPEAKER_06: actually help and anything to reduce our prison population would be lovely um jason before we go

SPEAKER_370: can we do a little startup acquisition story sure what else is on the docket here yeah well i want to

SPEAKER_06: get into this quickly um service now uh a company we've all heard of is buying moveworks for 2.85 billion and i had entirely forgotten what moveworks is and was so moveworks is a company started back in 16 it was building a chatbot ai chatbot for like it it's expanded greatly to more parts of business essentially you can use it to answer internal questions for your company and it has an agentic ai element to it okay sounds generic enough at this point in time yeah but back in 2021 it raised a 200 million dollar series c at a 2.1 billion valuation okay led half by tiger so this

SPEAKER_30: should be an implosion but yeah the tiger the tiger cubs um you know that came out of that peak zerp

SPEAKER_19: era they've all had a problem getting to their previous high watermark so this money was raised 2021 you said yep at a 2.1 and it sold for drum roll please 2.85 okay so they made a little

SPEAKER_30: bit of a modest profit maybe if they put that money in the market for three or four years it probably would have been sim similar so it's a save but really those tiger evaluations were typically two three four times reality and so there's just a lot of catch-up to do if the if those tiger and peak

SPEAKER_31: valuations wind up being but a push in other words you know the lps put in 5 billion and they get 5 billion back i think people will look at it and this is like perverse and crazy i know but the way lps will look at it was no risk no reward yes no gamble no future fortune favors the bowl so that's

SPEAKER_79: how the market looks at masayoshi-san took big swings did the vision fund should he be able to raise a second vision fund yes should it be the same size probably no but those bets that were made at peak zerp if they wind up simply returning the capital that was put in 1x no profit you would have made double if you put your money in the market so be it you placed a bet you took a shot what you don't want to see is losing half your money that's when lps can get a bit persnickety if they come out par plus or minus 20 like in this situation they'll be fine with it so interesting we have a little bit

SPEAKER_03: more uh two things one i i knew you're going to bring up the rate of return so i chat gpt that before we got on the irr of 2.1 to 2.85 from june of 21 to march of 25 is 10.5 not bad i mean you know it's

SPEAKER_30: not the 35 they said i've returned uh you know more of 40 pelosi returns but it is what it is it is so great job today we'll see you all next time on this week of startups