SPEAKER_00: all right everybody we've got an incredible guest today governor josh shapiro is here obviously governor of pennsylvania he's got uh record-setting popularity in pennsylvania right now 60 approval at least he's a moderate uh he's focused on getting done gsd he's tough on crime rank number one according to my notes on charging medicaid fraud he's pro data center he's got a nuanced take on israel and he's a baller apparently cut to the tape got him oh my god here's your

SPEAKER_04: governor look at those short shorts holy cow wow it's the late 80s and based on the vhs tape this

SPEAKER_10: looks like the 80s yeah that was 1990 i think look at that playing the points there you go very nice

SPEAKER_11: very nice all right that was back when that was back when people shot mid-range jumpers they don't do that anymore man they don't do that they should all threes yeah i mean we have a couple of players

SPEAKER_16: and and we were talking before the show started you're obviously a big philly fan i'm a big nick fan so i will see you at the games we're on a collision course by the way with all due respect

SPEAKER_19: and i hope we have a good conversation here i hope to never see you at the games because if you're showing up in philly with all your nick's crap on i'm not going to be a happy guy oh look at a selfie

SPEAKER_16: courtside with my friend uh dave who is one of the co-owners of the team who's a mutual friend of ours um who i think egged you on a little bit to come on the program here he did appreciate he said go on

SPEAKER_25: all in they have thoughtful conversations and anxious to have one with you so thanks for having

SPEAKER_24: yeah there's so much for us to talk about but i i thought i would start with your track record in

SPEAKER_27: pennsylvania the reason i wanted to start there is because there's a bit of a collision course happening right now between you and gavin gavin's got what i would describe as a variable um tenure

SPEAKER_16: here in california um i left california for texas because i just thought it was a bit of a disaster

SPEAKER_00: but you're doing great in your state and that's in the face of new york my hometown new jersey boston like losing a lot of business leaders uh and you've been scoring you know some big wins so when you look at your track record maybe you could just educate the audience on what you've gotten

SPEAKER_16: done and maybe in comparison to what's happening in those other states uh with other democratic leaders because you seem to be maybe the exception to this rule that democrats aren't getting it done

SPEAKER_25: on a business level look i'm proud of what we've done i'm not in comparison with gavin or any other democratic governor i'll just talk about what we've done here in pennsylvania we are a pro growth state we want businesses to come here and grow i'm proud of the fact that we've created more jobs in all but two states in the entire country we've cut taxes seven different times to be more competitive cut taxes for small businesses also for families trying to afford child care for seniors for working pennsylvanians we've taken our permitting process that's the the usually the the ticket you need say to build your building right if you're trying to build something here in pennsylvania we were bottom five in the country i think we're now a national model easily top five in terms of speed we've got a money back guarantee on all of our permits if we don't get you your permit in time we'll give your money back and fun fact we've issued 40 million permits during my time as governor we've only had to issue five refunds meaning only five of those permits were late um we are now the only growing economy in the northeastern part of the united states at the same time we're investing in workforce development especially if you don't have a college degree tripling funding for votech and apprenticeship programs and understanding the need to take the workforce we have today and prepare them for jobs here in the commonwealth of pennsylvania i'm proud that we've got an unemployment rate below the national rate consistently over the last 32 months i think it is really critical that every kid born in pennsylvania gets a great quality education that that kid has a safe street to walk down to get to school or wherever else they're going and that they've got a job in the community that they love those to me are the core foundational principles it's what we focus on every single day our mantra as you said at the top is gsd get done those are the areas where we focus on getting done and i think we're putting a lot of points on the board every single day that's

SPEAKER_17: having a meaningful difference in people's lives how are you getting that done let's just take the

SPEAKER_27: permitting as an example why is it so dysfunctional in california you know obviously i'm an investor in technology companies and we just saw red tape after red tape then on housing it's incredibly hard to build anything the nimbyism you know if you cast a shadow nothing can be built and then housing prices

SPEAKER_00: keep going up and you know if you want to hire a nanny or a teacher uh or you know if a firefighter moves in they can't even afford a home in the community that they're servicing so how did you

SPEAKER_35: fix this and why can't other states not fix it i mean look i can't speak to how it's done in california

SPEAKER_25: i'll just tell you in pennsylvania the way we start the conversation is by recognizing permits are critically important to economic development and to creating jobs right if we the government can move at the speed of business if i can give you as a ceo predictability to know your business is going to be open in six months instead of three years right because the permit took too long then you're going to want to invest here so we sort of start with the important idea that permits matter second when you come into our state government to get your permit let's just use building a building as an example right we want to get to yes we still want to protect the environment and public health and public safety and we do that but we want to get to yes so our attitude has shifted third we've got to have that money back guarantee because that money back guarantee holds the bureaucracy accountable now i will tell you that some of this we've done administratively meaning i've signed executive orders and we've made those changes but other things we work with the legislature to pass new laws to speed up our permitting and it hasn't always been easy understand i'm a democrat as a governor i've got a divided legislature i was the only governor for a while with a divided legislature now there's one other i've got a senate led by republicans by just two seats and a house led by democrats by just one seat but this is an area where i've been able to bring democrats and republicans together in order to make progress in terms of passing this um this permitting reform and again proof is in the pudding what we are seeing is that businesses are coming here and the economy is growing let me give you one more example this may seem really small to you but it's a big deal okay when i talk about a permit if you want to be a barber in pennsylvania you need a permit or technically it's called a license but i put it all some kind of certificate yeah right the day i took office it took 20 days for a barber to get their permit to be able to go out and cut hair today you get it same day you get it within that day that may seem silly to you but but but understand i called my barber i asked him i said how many heads do you cut a day he said about 10 a day at 20 bucks a pop 200 bucks a day for two for 20 days that's real money that's thousands of dollars that we're putting into that barber's pocket just because we got them their permit more quickly so i know it may sound nerdy it may sound

SPEAKER_39: wonky but whether you're building some big building that's going to house hundreds of workers or

SPEAKER_25: thousands of people who are living there or whether you're the local barber that everybody needs to go to to get to get their haircut this stuff matters and the quicker you are the more jobs you create and the more money you put in people's pockets it also matters i think on a philosophical basis

SPEAKER_00: of who is the government working for themselves and their timelines or for the people who put them in office and i think that's the philosophy just at least watching it happen in new york and california it's the opposite of what you described there's no sense of urgency and there's almost a situation where people believe it's intractable that they can't change it and so that's i think

SPEAKER_45: such an important point is that you actually made it happen i think that's a great point i want to

SPEAKER_25: focus on what you just said there um first off i i start the conversation believing that government can be a force for good in people's lives second that we got to figure out a way to get to yes whether it's building the building or whether it's getting that mom the support she needs for her kid with autism who needs support we got to figure out a way to get to yes and get them um that help then you mentioned uh in your question the way people get i i don't recall if you used the word frustrated or where they feel you know um that the government's sort of holding them back right

SPEAKER_47: not sure it's impressive in a way right yes if you have that experience three or four times whether it's at the airport or getting your driver's license or getting the hair cutting you know certificate like

SPEAKER_17: it's just oppressive over time you just feel like the government's working against you yeah and what is that what does that person feel after they try and get their permit they can't get it they try

SPEAKER_25: and open up their small business it won't work they get frustrated by the way they get pissed and then not only are they pissed at that agency or that governor or they're pissed at you know that state government they also grow and this is an important point a little more cynical about government and a little bit more frustrated about the process and when that happens i think that that creates more distrust in our system and it creates more opportunity for i think frankly dark voices on extremes to come in and take advantage of people i i find that you know if we get it done the right way if we process things quickly if we get people to yes then maybe a byproduct of that is a little bit

SPEAKER_47: less cynicism in our system yeah and the horseshoe theory that you're kind of referencing there are these two extremes just taking over the conversation that's not what the majority of the country wants

SPEAKER_52: they they want to just live in a high functioning society it was curious how you look at fraud um waste fraud and abuse my friend elon to drop a name you know did this doja thing was a little controversial but i think what we've seen is hey 20 30 of every tax dollar collected is wasted some of it's fraud some of it's just incompetence it could be anything on that spectrum and this seems to be the republican party's rallying cry to beat the democrats going into california and prosecuting people michigan etc you have seemed to have gotten ahead of this you've been doing this for years so maybe you could explain your take on fighting fraud specifically health care or in other areas yeah

SPEAKER_25: look look i think we've got to focus on rooting fraud out of the system now you and i may differ on hey should we spend a dollar on that initiative or not and by the way those are super healthy differences and we should argue that out we should debate that but where we should have no difference is if someone's stealing that dollar instead of going to its intended purpose we should be against that and and i am prior to serving as governor and having the privilege of sitting here uh in this office serving the good people of pennsylvania i was the state's attorney general and you'll remember back during covid there were those ppp loans to help our small businesses and other businesses stay afloat we'd probably agree like good idea right we got to keep businesses sure afloat but during that time i went out and prosecuted a whole bunch of people for stealing that ppp money for not using it for its intended purposes here as governor i've maintained a similar focus through my office of inspector general rooting out fraud through making sure by the way we're not fronting you money when you're going out and providing say human services you have to submit for reimbursements and you've got to make sure you prove that you did that work when we find that someone took advantage of the system we're referring them to prosecutors i'm proud of the fact that we've had more medicaid fraud prosecutions in pennsylvania i think any other state maybe there was one other we're certainly toward the top of that list proud of the fact that we've identified that we've sent it to prosecutors and and we've addressed it if we can address it administratively we do if not we understand that those things need to be prosecuted we should have a zero tolerance policy for that and we should make sure that if we're going to utilize a hard-earned dollar of a taxpayer for a purpose like providing someone with health care that they need we got to make sure that that dollar makes its way to that person so they get their health care and you know our folks are working really hard on that in pennsylvania

SPEAKER_42: so pro-business uh less regulation lowering taxes eliminating fraud um and all of this is just

SPEAKER_00: getting done in the state and then you know the next piece that in at least my community people who

SPEAKER_27: are creators of businesses venture capitalists angel investors founders we pay our taxes pay a lot of taxes uh depending on which state you live in and then there's this you should be paying more taxes

SPEAKER_17: in pennsylvania man stop paying them elsewhere yeah well the and you know we then get struck with this

SPEAKER_27: california law and a lot of my friends have moved to austin where i live now they just said suddenly

SPEAKER_16: hey we want to seize five percent of whatever you got uh you already paid your taxes you haven't paid capital gains on some of this equity you own in your company maybe it's paper wealth maybe it's your

SPEAKER_27: company went public now and you could sell some of it but you might crater the stock if you do

SPEAKER_00: uh and elizabeth warren bernie sanders and california all trying to seize assets and this has really hit the creator the business creators in a in a really offensive way to the point at which they're moving we lost california lost sergey travis from uber just fleeing fleeing en masse in the last 12 months do you believe in these wealth taxes and do you believe in seizing people's assets on gains they've

SPEAKER_34: never uh received it's a it seems to be getting momentum i mean i'll just say we've cut taxes seven

SPEAKER_25: times in pennsylvania we've got one of the lowest income taxes in the entire country that's why i'm joking with you you should come to pennsylvania and uh good deal located here uh and and look i mean that kind of tax that you're describing is not something we have here it's certainly not something on on my agenda i do think people need to pay their fair share i think you'd agree with that we need to make sure that we are easing the burden on those who are working and who are at the lowest you know sort of economic point on the scale we got to make sure that folks at the top are paying their their fair share uh in order to to sustain our society and i think we've struck a really good balance here in pennsylvania and i think our growth numbers bear that out i think seeing more people coming to the state bears that out and i think there's an important stat one of the things you you cited in those um entrepreneurs as as you were going through your question is you know these are people who kind of started with a dream with an idea that you know someone might have looked at and said geez i i don't know about that but they stuck with it and and they built up their companies we see here in pennsylvania particularly when it comes to life sciences right we're seeing people plant a flag here in pennsylvania start with an idea that others might think boy i don't know about that but then because of our tax environment in pennsylvania because of our pro-growth approach in pennsylvania we're seeing more of those small businesses more of those small companies especially in life sciences survive that sort of valley where a lot of those companies go out of business and sustain themselves here because again i think we're showing that we're pro-growth we've got a smart tax environment for them and by the way after we invest in them after we give them a shot and after they do well we expect them to pay their fair share back to the commonwealth of pennsylvania and

SPEAKER_48: i think that's that's the approach we've taken and it's working yeah and so if you're not in favor

SPEAKER_52: of a wealth tax what would you do to deal with maybe this disparity in uh wealth that we're seeing there was just some statistics that came out the other day i'm sure you saw them the upper middle class has just been surging middle class going down a bit and people in the lower rungs going down as well so

SPEAKER_00: people may feel like they're not making enough money but in reality what's happening is people feel other people have made a tremendous amount of money which is true because of equity holdings are

SPEAKER_52: growing much better than salaries ever well and only 40 percent only 50 percent of the country really participates in a meaningful way in equities the other 40 50 percent don't have any exposure to that so how would you deal with somebody making you know 100 billion dollars 500 billion dollars a trillion

SPEAKER_27: dollars and never selling their equity or maybe not selling it for 20 years how do you think about

SPEAKER_11: that let me make sure three points a pennsylvania point then a couple broader points one you cannot

SPEAKER_25: have a national economy that works if it's only working for the one percent and you pointed out in your question the wage disparity and the disparity of income you have to make sure that there is opportunity for those at all different income levels and look as we sit here today if you're making a million dollars versus fifty thousand dollars make a million dollars you're going to be able to buy some stuff that someone at fifty thousand dollars can't buy right we sort of understand that but you've got to have opportunity and you've got to have a level playing field you got to have a fair shot and you got to have a tax system that works in a fair way so that's sort of point one point two is here in pennsylvania we've tried to address some of that economic disparity by passing the first ever working pennsylvania's tax credit sort of a state side earned income tax credit so what we're saying is if you're working if you're going out and busting your hump we're going to put some money back in your pocket about 940 000 almost a million pennsylvanians are going to qualify for a little over 800 bucks back in their pockets so that's going to help not only today with rising costs due to a lot of these federal policies but it's going to put money back in people's pockets allow them to make you know the the investments they need to make in their everyday lives here's the third point what i would not do because you asked what i would do what i would not do is what president trump did at the federal level with an aid and assist from a whole bunch of sick and fancy congress by passing that budget bill or the beautiful budget bill or whatever the hell they call it in effect what they did was they gave a tax cut for those who simply do not need it right and by the way you know in the palace of truth and justice you talk to those folks they know that they didn't need that tax cut and what happens as a result of that is i've got 500 000 pennsylvanians who are going to lose their health care i've got 120 000 who've already lost their health care about another 320 000 or so we're likely to lose medicaid next year i've got 26 rural hospitals that are likely to shutter because these are rural hospitals that are working on an operating deficit and they're relying so much on medicaid which has been slashed by the federal government so the idea that donald trump thought it was smart economic policy to give a tax cut to those who don't need it and pay for it with those who are struggling where and create even greater economic disparities that is going to hold back our entire economy just take those 500 000 people who aren't going to have health care you're paying for that and i'm paying for that with our private insurance so what donald trump has done is shifted that burden onto those who are struggling making it harder for them adding additional costs to the middle class and i think that that is that that lacks um frankly it's just dumb economic policy and i think it's

SPEAKER_52: going to set us back here we are politics is on the table incredible track record you have but let's dive into the democratic party i'm an independent but grew up irish catholic in brooklyn so grew up a

SPEAKER_27: democrat probably have voted you know 60 40 democrat to republican but always for a moderate somebody who can get stuff done that's why i find you quite appealing but let's talk about the democratic party

SPEAKER_16: and the shellacking they got in the last election and specifically what really troubled me biden didn't look like he was all there and uh i think we've all come to some consensus that he probably should have dropped out earlier but what was really disheartening to me was that they

SPEAKER_27: didn't do the speed run primary they didn't do you know capsule primary over that july august period and gave you a shot and other people a shot pritzker buddha judge whoever to to compete for

SPEAKER_00: the nomination was that a huge mistake for the democratic party and when you look back on it

SPEAKER_17: do you think that might have cost you all the election well look i mean i i actually wrote about

SPEAKER_25: this in in the book i i recently published where you know it it became clear to me that um you know joe biden seeking another term was probably not in the best interest of the party or or the country and i spoke to him directly about that and and bluntly about that once he made the decision to drop out with a hundred and whatever days to go um you know there were not many opportunities i think to have the kind of primary process that you're talking about i think it is important to look forward right and not look backwards and you said in the last election democrats took a shellacking actually you look at 2025 it was the opposite i mean the president's party the republican party got beat new jersey got beat in virginia got beat here in pennsylvania where we won three state supreme court seats so obviously there's a pendulum and and it's swinging back in politics and it's clearly uh swinging back i think what's important is is that we look forward and yeah i think it's also really important for our party to have for my party to have a real debate and to have a real discussion about ideas what are we for and what are we willing to fight for and i realize that process may at times look a little messy i realize and i mean this with the utmost respect it gives folks like you on a podcast or on a show the ability to sort of pick apart maybe try and you know sort of parse words or point one democrat at another and try and create conflict but i would just say that overall having this debate and having these issues be raised and having disagreements that's healthy for our party and ultimately i think our party's poised to take back power and that will make us better at governing to me the whole purpose of running in an election is getting a chance to govern not just winning the election and so having these debates right now puts us in a better position when we win those elections and i'm running for re-election right now in pennsylvania going to work my ass off to win another term and earn the support of the people of pennsylvania again and i want to continue to deliver continue to um you know focus on these issues that matter most and having that debate i think

SPEAKER_52: is really healthy understand looking forward is most important but i got i got to go one more time

SPEAKER_27: in the review mirror here which is kamala harris was picked because biden had put out a criteria hey i want to have a woman of color as my vice president he was very explicit about that she could be qualified unqualified you know moderately qualified but then when she went out to pick her vp everybody was saying hey josh shapiro should be really in that running and she didn't pick you specifically because she didn't think she could win with the jewish vice president yeah so i don't

SPEAKER_61: respectfully i i got to push back on that and again i i've been very very open about it yeah

SPEAKER_25: yeah yeah and respectfully i'm not looking to you know be argumented with you but i i i was very very detailed and and and very specific in my book about this process and i was very grateful to the vice president for being considered and grateful to her for the candid dialogue we had and about 48 hours before she picked tim walls i pulled out made clear that that was not something i was interested in doing i thought i could serve the good people of pennsylvania um and and do my best serving here as governor in a job that i absolutely love so this wasn't about her not picking me because of my faith uh this was about me um in the end not being interested in in that job really sincerely yes uh because it

David Friedberg: did seem like you wanted to to be considered for that vp position i called sunday evening after she

SPEAKER_25: and i met and had a really candid conversation uh to inform her that i did not want to be considered

SPEAKER_73: i thought she had some really good people to choose from all right so let's move forward then looking

SPEAKER_27: at winning you're going to run for governor again assume that's going to be a shoe-in uh you know you got to do the work but it's pretty clear i appreciate your your confidence there my man yeah no it's it's clear but let's talk a little bit about if you were to run for president which people seem to think you've got a really good shot but you're below maybe national uh recognition right now we're a little bit far behind gavin has come out hey i'm running i'm running here i am he's obviously uh in

SPEAKER_16: the poll position for now i want to understand the democratic party and how they should proceed because just like the right seemed to separate and you had this maga coalition uh and you had you know the

SPEAKER_27: traditional republicans who were just aghast at trump and his style and his behavior etc now that

SPEAKER_52: seems to have fractured again you have america first america only all the supporters who were supporting trump now have come out vocally against him because of the war in iran and then you have on your side this socialist democrat movement which i think a lot of moderates are like well that's confusing we don't want to have more mondamis and that doesn't seem super appealing to a lot of moderates and the moderates are the ones who flipped this election and they went the last election they went with trump largely as opposed to going with kamala so handicap for me what has to happen

SPEAKER_17: in the democratic party to win in 2028 i understand why you're asking and i i will answer your question

SPEAKER_25: i don't think anyone should be looking past these midterms and while i appreciate okay the confidence you have in me and and and maybe in the the broader dynamics here i think we need to have a national referendum in these midterms on what people see happening in washington dc that the chaos and the corruption that exists there i think people need to show up in record numbers and vote their concerns since i'm not looking past the midterms i do think it is important that we acknowledge donald trump has injected chaos and corruption into everything he touched and i think it's important for me for other democratic leaders in this country to be able to show what calm competent governance can actually deliver for people that's what i'm going to be talking about in these midterms as i seek reelection i think it is important to paint an alternative picture to the chaos donald trump has created one where you can actually grow the economy you can make our communities safer we didn't talk about this yet but we've hired 2 000 more police officers invested in community violence prevention and violent crime is down 12 fatal gun violence is down 42 in our commonwealth we've invested in public education and by the way scores are up truancy is down um we're moving up on the list we're about 10th according to consumer affairs in the quality of public education i think we've got to show that there is an alternative to donald trump's chaos to his cruelty to his corruption and you're seeing that um i think certainly in my state i think you're seeing it in other states as well and

SPEAKER_47: we need to paint that alternative picture so 2026 is certainly going to be a referendum on the first

SPEAKER_52: two years of this presidency which was extremely popular for the first nine months or so people felt really good about the economy some people and that well i think the his polling was great but there was this tinge i think it's pretty accurate to say the tariffs felt like those were chaotic yeah then you get the ice situation that feels very chaotic then you go to this war with iran and that feels like

SPEAKER_47: a peak chaotic moment that we're in here in week six of this so it's certainly going to be a referendum

SPEAKER_81: on trump and it feels like all the democrats have to do is sit back and say like look is this what you want gas prices up inflation but you're saying they have to paint another picture paint that picture for

SPEAKER_45: me what is that picture i think on both sides of what you said donald trump chose to push the tariff

SPEAKER_25: button right yeah and as a result here in pennsylvania what we're seeing is coffee prices are up 30 percent beef is up 19 oj orange juice is up nine percent the fertilizers my farmers rely on here in pennsylvania up 36 percent so we're seeing whether you're a farmer whether you're you know a dad's just trying to cook dinner for his kids whatever the case may be everything costs more because of the the recklessness and the chaotic approach donald trump's taking our economy with these tariffs obviously this war has spiked gas prices up today about 4 15 4 16 here in pennsylvania similar across the country probably years before those gas prices come down even if the war you know hopefully ends you know very very soon and so i think it is important yes to point that out the way donald trump's policies have hurt the american people have hurt our farmers have hurt our small businesses the point i was making

SPEAKER_39: a moment ago is i think that's part of the conversation the other part of the conversation is okay well what are you doing to make people's lives yeah well so what what should the top three

SPEAKER_83: things be like if you were running the democratic party and everybody got in a room and said you know

SPEAKER_00: what we really are going to take winning seriously not get into this like purity test for everybody in

SPEAKER_52: the party and you know everybody's got to be perfect and joe rogan's not good enough to go on air with

SPEAKER_81: because he's a lifelong democrat but he said something about kova we don't agree with therefore

SPEAKER_27: he's out of the party elon musk i never said a little bit weird on them well but but the democrats did and then oh elon musk waited hours to and had obama at spacex and then all of a sudden he can't come to the white house for the ev summit the category he created like it's pretty obvious the democratic party had some real dysfunction in there in terms of building a bigger tent and i can tell you i have never felt more courted in my life than the republican party trying to get me to be part of the the trump movement which i demurred and declined it wasn't my style right but they are

SPEAKER_00: trying to build the biggest tent possible they're like oh you agree with 14 of what we do you're in

SPEAKER_25: like okay yeah so walk me through so let's dissect that a little bit should be yeah let's just say first off you attribute a number of things to democrats that i didn't say so um we're you're here interviewing me so let's focus on the things i say number two um they went and they courted you uh and you demurred but by the way um even had you not demurred had you signed up i don't know that your life would be better off after a year and a half of trump's policies what i am for here in pennsylvania the ultimate swing state the toughest state to win in an incredibly tough state to govern and particularly with a divided legislature i'm for investing in public education given every child of god an opportunity i'm for safe communities and we're building that here and we're reducing crime in all of our communities i'm for a pro-growth economy where we generate more energy we generate more jobs where we create more opportunities particularly in our rural communities and forgotten communities that have been too often left behind and here's the fourth thing i'm for i am for freedom and i'll tell you what this president represents a party that used to be known as the party of freedom and now they have turned their backs on that they want to tell my kids what books they're allowed to read they want to tell women what medicines they can take and what they can do with their bodies they want to control the way i raise my child they want to say uh you know every day that yeah you can vote but we're going to set the rules and try and rig them in a way where you're not going to be successful they are not the party of freedom and i think the democratic party has an opportunity to be the party of education safety economic opportunity and freedom that's what we're doing here in

SPEAKER_17: pennsylvania and that's what i'm going to continue to put forth i think it's a great platform i would add to it

SPEAKER_27: housing the thing i hear about from young people all the time is that you know just i'll never be able to afford a house the american dream is a bit of a scam and college is overpriced so how do you

David Friedberg: think about housing and and what is that an issue in your state or let's talk about housing let's also

SPEAKER_43: talk about college because you rate both of them in your question i mean that has disinfected by the

SPEAKER_27: way just like two generations who are like you guys tricked us on housing you told us to be able to get

SPEAKER_00: home and you won't sell your home boomers uh and and you told us we could always make more than our

SPEAKER_39: college education cost and that was a lie too yeah when i was talking about economic opportunity it's somewhat shorthand if you will for also being able to afford that community affording that community can

SPEAKER_25: be health care it can be housing rights but let's talk about housing here in pennsylvania i've asked the legislature for a one billion dollar fund to be able to build more housing in pennsylvania and repair existing housing 50 percent of my housing was built prior to 1950 you can invest a few thousand bucks in a new boiler a new roof some new windows actually keep people in their homes and not have to build new homes we also have to eliminate or damn near eliminate the red tape that exists when it comes to building housing we got to be able to build this faster and so i put forth a regulatory reform plan to be able to build more housing i think that is um really really crucial let's talk about college for a minute the first day i was governor the first executive order i signed was to do away with the college degree requirement to work for state government we have 80 000 employees damn near all now you do not have to have a college degree other than say the doctors and lawyers and people like that who require advanced degrees so now 60 60 60 of all of our hires in state government don't have a college degree we've followed up on that by tripling our funding for votech and cte in our high schools our you know dramatically increasing our funding for apprenticeship programs 62 of my adult population here in pennsylvania do not have a college degree so we need to make sure we're investing in them so that they have opportunities you want to go learn to be a welder you're going to make six figures working in a shipyard in south philadelphia you want to go and you want to work on hvac system you're going to work in some of our most complex life sciences um construction jobs and you're going to make six figures doing that so for us we fundamentally believe that you've got many pathways to opportunity here in pennsylvania for some it's going to college great and for others if you choose not to go to college that's also great we're going to make sure that we pave the way for you

SPEAKER_27: and give you that opportunity yeah the generation two about movement is uh well upon us people are starting to figure out going in debt 100 200k versus getting a plumber job carpenter job hvac whatever

SPEAKER_52: for six figures out of the gate is a much better opportunity yeah and to be clear i'm not on people

SPEAKER_57: that go to college i went to college i presume you went to go to college but for too long by the way

SPEAKER_25: politicians are in both parties define success exclusively around the idea of you having to have a college degree and then set up arbitrary barriers to entry hey if you don't have a college degree you can't apply here what about the skills that you developed in the military what about the skills you develop at a trade school or the skills that you developed working in the private sector those skills should matter and now they do in pennsylvania and we're no longer taking an elitist approach that shuts people out just because they don't have a college degree we're giving them

SPEAKER_39: the keys to opportunity and we're giving them opportunities to pursue more success here in

SPEAKER_52: pennsylvania does the socialist democratic movement worry you mondami and the crew and

SPEAKER_45: how do you think about that in terms of the party dynamics i mean remember the question you asked

SPEAKER_25: me i don't know three or four questions ago about you said well yeah i only agree with 14 percent of what you agree with you know come join the party look my view is that we got to have a big tent and my view is that we've got to have a real debate around different ideas and just because i might not agree with you on these three things i might agree with you on something else listen yeah i'm sitting behind my desk here in the governor's office this is where i negotiate bills and budgets and other things if i threw everybody out of my office that i didn't agree with a hundred percent of the time we never get anything done when i sit down across the table from a republican lawmaker say what are the 10 things you want to accomplish i tell him the 10 things i want to accomplish and you know what we're not going to agree on all 10 but if we agree on three or four i'd rather focus on those three or four things where we can find common ground than the five six seven things where we're just going to disagree and so i think if you want to make progress you got to figure out how to create you know majorities whether it's a majority in the legislature to get a bill to my desk a majority come election time to win an election you got to find ways to bring people together and find common

SPEAKER_39: ground and not just focus exclusively on our differences what's your take on what's going

SPEAKER_52: on in congress senate in terms of trump and getting alignment there because hey when you go to war or you do tariffs um this was something we had a consultation between these different branches of our government and we had other presidents on the democrat side etc you know say hey we're going to just get rid of student loan i'm doing an executive order curious your take on the balance of our of our different branches of government and the lack of collaboration because this is

SPEAKER_00: particularly disturbing we're both gen xers we grew up watching the democrats and the republicans argue but then they all got together had lunch and they negotiated where is that esprit de corpse

SPEAKER_27: of everybody rowing in the same direction uh for all americans versus this toxic you know we're just gonna block each other at and do character assassination at every single turn it's it's

SPEAKER_17: the most polarized of our lifetimes for sure i actually think the congress of the united states

SPEAKER_25: um the leadership there i mean they're frankly kind of sad pathetic people and let me explain why right you put um what's his name johnson in as a speaker and he's effectively a rubber stamp for anything donald trump wants by the way whether you agree with trump or not i think you can agree that you'd like your member of congress to at least meet the burdens that they have on them in the constitution of the united states which is to be a check which is to be a separate branch of government and a branch of government that has meaningful responsibilities here when the congress of united states walks away from their responsibilities whether on tariffs or whether on declaring war and ultimately just kind of empower the president again agree or disagree obviously i have profound disagreements from the president on on those things then what what you've really done is you've limited um the power of the congress and what you've really done is you've seen a whole bunch of people that put donald trump before the oath of office they take to the constitution and i think that's just pathetic by the way why these people work so hard to get to congress to move up in leadership to do all the things they got to do and then give away their power to donald trump that's pathetic and it's weak and i think our country is suffering as a result of it look i'm here in pennsylvania where where it all began 250 years ago and the brilliance of our founders was that they left so much of the work to the next generation and the generation after that to pick up the baton and continue to perfect our union our founders though always contemplated two things one that there would be honorable people in office and two that the people in office would exercise their power and be a check on one another and in some cases slow things down to make sure that bad things didn't occur bad things couldn't get through the process i think what americans are confronting now is a realization that we don't really have all honorable people in positions of authority in the federal government and that that checks and balance system that was constructed here in pennsylvania is not standing the test of time because you've got these profoundly and pathetically weak people like johnson and others who just simply give away their power to folks who are corrupt and to folks who are not acting in an honorable way

SPEAKER_73: you keep bringing up that corruption explain to me what corrupt things you know that the trump

SPEAKER_25: administration has done i think to me there has been an extraordinary amount of self-dealing there there has been um a good bit of family members doing quite well in this uh in this environment i think you're seeing more and more people who have the president's ear being able to lobby him at his swim club to get a pardon for someone that frankly doesn't deserve a pardon i mean i think the list goes on and on and on but those are some examples that i mean those first two people see with their own eyes taking a you know a billion dollar jet from the qataris and thinking there's nothing attached to that right i mean i think that there's just a lot of that that moves so fast that the american people are having a hard time keeping up with it but there will be a reckoning yeah so on the pardons i'm strongly

SPEAKER_27: agreeing feels like the pardon power is super abused is is there a path to refine that tool because it

SPEAKER_16: relies on norms right and ever since bill flinton you know did some you know friends and then obviously biden did his son and then trump's doing his you know folks it feels like now this is just a get

SPEAKER_27: out of jail card you come into an administration and then everybody from fauci to you know hunter biden and everybody else is just going to get a pardon on the way out how would you reshape that

SPEAKER_25: tool well let's be clear and i i don't think you're suggesting this but um and i was critical of joe biden when he pardoned his son right i was critical of him publicly what we are seeing under

SPEAKER_39: donald trump you have to admit is next level when it comes to the abuse on the way it's yes it's in

SPEAKER_52: the first year it's not on the last day even it's right like an ongoing tool here we had cz um who was a crypto person who got pardoned and trump didn't even know who he was right he was just

SPEAKER_25: like i heard he's a good guy i mean i will tell i sit at this desk here and i sign pardons and clemencies and i take that responsibility so seriously and and i agonize over these decisions and and i pray that i get these decisions right and i believe i have and i'm transparent about why i viewed someone as worthy to get a clemency and also worthy of not getting one or not worthy i should say but but also not earning one and these are tough tough decisions goes back to what i said a moment ago our founders when they vested that kind of authority in an executive didn't necessarily do something wrong by giving the executive that power but they were leaning on the assumption that the executive would be honorable that the executive would would would do this with morality and real scruples in mind and and i think what we're seeing with the president is if you sidle up to him at his swim club you donate a certain amount of money maybe or you have his ear for some other social reason you can usually get him to give a

David Friedberg: pardon to someone who's important to you yeah the pardons definitely are super troubling how do you deal with the family members and the kids enriching themselves obviously nothing has been um done by

SPEAKER_52: a court or an investigation into trump's kids at this point um so we just want to be clear about that

SPEAKER_27: you know we had uh hunter biden getting a ridiculous million dollar board seat i've never seen anybody get paid a million dollars to be on a board that was obviously corrupt in some way or somebody trying to curry favor doesn't mean the president biden was but it definitely was corruption there how do you deal with kids of and this has been going on for a while um these kind of allegations if we if we can't rely on honor and norms is there another proposal here that the kids of you know people in office can't make money your kids

David Friedberg: can't make money if i was running for office my kids couldn't make money in the free market how do you

SPEAKER_25: is there any kind of solution you can think of i think it is important you you cited hunter biden they went through a legal process there was an investigation by the department of justice i think there has to be a real look i say this is a former prosecutor a real look at some of this stuff and follow the evidence follow the law and if charges are warranted bring them by the way if charges are not warranted don't bring them do not um use the the rule of law as a tool to go against you know political opponents in in any way but i think what you've got to have here are people who are operating with real morality and you do have to figure out a way to operate within the norms again i'm unwilling to accept that that is gone it may be temporarily suspended under donald trump but i'm hopeful that we can find our way back to that let me be clear about something else here that finding our way back to that is a bipartisan exercise it's going to require republicans and democrats and independents all demanding when they go to the ballot box that we want to elevate people who are ethical people who are honest people who are focused on doing their jobs with integrity and then when those people are in office rewarded with the votes of the public and in these positions of public trust to hold them

SPEAKER_73: accountable as well and you believe that can happen in a post trump i do yeah i do yeah

SPEAKER_16: i strongly agree uh hey it's a year since your home was firebombed by an insane person who was anti-semitic your faith comes up over and over again i personally think people are a little uh obsessed with it but here we are and the democratic party's been split apart as well over this support of israel issue you have a very nuanced position number one how are you dealing with that personally the anti-semitism which to me as somebody who grew up in brooklyn with lots of jewish friends and all kinds of different people just insane to think that jewish students are being or any particular group of students being chased by the other students at columbia university because they're jewish and this chaoticness um it's just heartbreaking but as a jewish person and literally

SPEAKER_114: experiencing it firsthand i mean how are you doing with that yeah i appreciate it look we we should

SPEAKER_11: separate this and have two conversations one about israel and one about anti-semitism because

SPEAKER_25: you kind of blurred both in that question let's focus first on anti-semitism i have been very outspoken about those who are engaging in anti-semitism peddling words that are anti-semitic and importantly i've been critical of people on the political left and on the political right and i think anti-semitism is a problem in our society and is a problem on the left and it is a problem on the right and i think it is important that we call it out we call it out whether we're in an interview not accusing you by any conversation yeah call it out when um you know on on social media and then we just call it out in our communities in our daily lives where we see it on that there should be no nuance we should be able to come together people who are jewish people christian muslim and all agree that hatred bigotry in any form directed at jew a muslim christian anyone it has no place and by the way it makes us all less safe and so we have to focus on speaking out against that no nuance on that yeah on the issue of israel in the middle east and the war in iran and gaza there's a lot of nuance there i'm happy to answer your questions on that but i think on the issue of anti-semitism we have got to be in a place where we universally condemn it and i think what you're seeing from some folks on the right and some folks on the left is they'll only call it out if it's said by a political opponent or someone they disagree with and i frankly respect people on the right like ted cruz who have hauled it out within the republican party i've tried to call it out when it rears its ugly head

SPEAKER_117: in my party it is important that it be universally condemned so easy to do let's tackle the issue of

SPEAKER_27: israel and i would say yeah every jewish person jewish american person who i know when i ask them about this issue obviously incredible tragedy october 7th going and collecting the hostages seems like a reasonable thing to do i was i was there for 9-11 you know it seems like a pretty analogous situation

SPEAKER_16: this has to be settled and the united states went and did what it had to do in afghanistan and took out iraq for extra measure um it's a whole other diversion but 100 of folks say they don't agree with netanyahu's approach to what happened in gaza and then folks feel a decent number of people whether it's reality or not that america is getting dragged into this war with iran not under false pretenses uh and because israel is pushing us to do it so let's take these two issues separately and i'm just curious in understanding your position on this are you part of the jewish american diaspora

SPEAKER_35: that believes hey israel's right to defend itself but maybe gaza went too far okay well first off um

SPEAKER_25: let me say this i don't view this issue as a jewish american as you said i view this issue as an american and i view this issue in a way of trying to understand what is the best thing for america which to me is having peace and stability in the middle east okay that's how i approach these issues it is um and i've been clear and consistent about this long before october 7th that i think netanyahu the leader of israel is someone who's been leading israel down a dangerous and isolated path i think he has made israel more isolated in the world community he has fractured really what used to be a non-partisan or bipartisan american support for israel and i think he has put israel in a very dangerous place and of course he was the leader of israel who wasn't minding the shop when october 7th happens i've been very critical of netanyahu for years and years and years i've also for years made very clear that i think the america's interest in the region should be for stability and peace and that it would be my hope that you would have two states living peacefully side by side israel and a palestinian state now i realize that is a long way off given where we are right now but it is clear that we need to work toward that and obviously that palestinian state cannot be led by hamas which is a terrorist organization and there has to be some structure that is put in place in order in order to create that as it relates to the war which you also asked about in in your question i mean this was a war of choice the president never defined the objectives it is clear it doesn't know how the hell to get out of this um we'll see what he ultimately does with his big threats you know we're we're recording this on the eve of his you know of his big uh threat um ultimate language using language that was so offensive you'll excuse my language that diminished the value of human life um we'll see what he ultimately does does he chicken out as he usually does or does god forbid he he go through with that this was a war of choice he didn't know why he got into it he doesn't know how

SPEAKER_120: the hell to get out of it america did he get into it handicapped america pardon me america's national

SPEAKER_25: security interests have not been well served by this and economically you've talked about this economically we are worse off uh because of this war i'm sorry i didn't mean no no no i mean listen i i

SPEAKER_27: appreciate your candidness governor why did he do it if you had to handicap it or what are you hearing when you talk because you have obviously a lot more information than the average yeah uh american why now why did we do this now we had done you know the strategic uh trimming of the hedges mowing of the lawn whatever the term is to get rid of the nuclear progress that's containment seemed like a perfect strategy and then all of a sudden we decide we're going to do regime change this is after trump promised that he would never get in uh do an intervention like this in the middle of

SPEAKER_00: this this is after we were told by the republicans do not vote for a crazy democrat who will take us to war with iran and here we are in month 14 or 13 of the trump presidency and he started a war his own biggest advocates from megan kelly to tucker colson and you know people on the fringe alex jones and everybody in the middle the comedians who supported him the podcast diaspora or the podcast bros they're all fleeing the ship they did not want so here we are why did he do this why now what is your

SPEAKER_25: handicapping well i'll answer i will just say it's yet another broken promise to the people who put him in power he screwed over the farmers who put him in power he told people he wouldn't slash medicaid he cut medicaid he told people he'd bring down prices prices have skyrocketed because of his tariffs he he's got this long string of broken promises now why did he break this particular promise yeah let's let's let's examine the record first rubio went out and said he did it because if we didn't move then netanyahu was going to move and was going to force our hand then they walked it back he said seven or eight months ago that they destroyed their nuclear capabilities and then came back seven or eight months later and said we had to go in because we had to destroy their nuclear capabilities i don't know then they said it was about regime change well great i mean we went from like an 80 something year old ayatollah to a 60 something year old ayatollah who by all accounts um seems to be far more hard line i'd hardly call that successful regime change so to me it is hard to i think you've seen i've been trying to be very forthright answering your questions you're doing i don't know how you answer that question because the president never answered that question he never sat in the oval office and looked the american people in the eye and said this is why we're going in and you know what this isn't semantics this isn't politics if you don't know why you're going in you don't know how the hell to get out you don't know how to instruct the military our brave military including those 13 souls who did not make it home to their families because they went on a mission that the president never defined and we mourn their loss we thank our military heroes for what they did and we thank our military who are out working every day um on behalf of our freedom and our safety and our security but they deserve a commander in chief who would have defined the mission and if you define the mission you know how to get out he never defined the mission i don't know ultimately if he will follow through in his thread again it's you know it's tuesday afternoon you and i are talking we'll see ultimately what he does here but um to me this has been a failed and compromised mission from the beginning because he never made clear why he was going in yeah i know you got to go in a moment it

SPEAKER_27: does seem to me that first explanation sometimes people you know their first reaction and their

SPEAKER_16: first statement is the true statement uh just in general and it does seem like israel was going to do this and we joined them and we didn't need to and to your point never pardon me america should

SPEAKER_25: never be led around by any other nation it should always be about america's interest our national security interest the interest of expanding freedom and opportunity for the american people we should never ever be bullied as maybe president trump was by any other world leader back to the anti-semitism

SPEAKER_27: we're experiencing now you said hey let's address them separately but i don't think you can separate them if we're getting pulled into this war by another nation and people believe like you and i do hey netanyahu maybe went a little too far here that is what's causing the anti-semitism in this country don't you think this relationship with israel the state of israel and netanyahu support for netanyahu

SPEAKER_00: that's not causing the anti-semitism here that's what these young people seem to be saying is we don't want to vote for somebody who supports netanyahu well i think you have to be real careful

SPEAKER_25: on that you you the collective not you individually i mean if you're suggesting say that jews are israel and reflect israeli policies and support everything israel does i mean that's one of the oldest anti-semitic tropes out there this sort of notion of dual loyalty i think it is fair to vote on the issue of do we support what donald trump is doing relative to netanyahu that's fair but to suggest that somehow it's you know because jews are tied to israel and that's why we're doing you and i can force this

SPEAKER_52: issue i think very easily but young people at colombia or harvard where all this is going on and these you know pro-palestinian protests are going on they don't seem to be able to make that

SPEAKER_00: part so that seems to be one of the roots of the problem is here that people do put together yeah these young people they could be stupid they could be misinformed but they do put together what

David Friedberg: the state of israel is doing and they equate it with judaism and that's why i've tried and that's why

SPEAKER_25: i've tried to be so outspoken on this and making clear that on anti-semitism there should be no nuance and that's a conversation where we should all be able to unite and that we have to protect a place for nuance when it comes to mid-east policy when it comes to israel when it comes to iran and and um and anything happening in the middle east and we need to give space for those who want to peacefully and i want to stress peacefully protest we want to give space to those who differ from the administration and frankly those who support the administration to be able to go out and to protest peacefully and that is i think an important part of the fabric of our american society i just think it's important i try and do this work every day as governors to keep those conversations separate because when they get blended that's where i think it gets dangerous and that's where um i i think it it really crosses a line into something we don't want to see in our society and you could be super

SPEAKER_42: critical of israel and you could love your jewish neighbors and friends these are these this is a

SPEAKER_17: very simple concept here and i think that reflects where i am on many things i've been super critical

SPEAKER_25: of the israeli government the netanyahu government um and and i'm someone uh who who loves israel someone who has spent time in israel i wrote a whole book about um i proposed to my wife there and and how i think the the idea of it is is important we've got to figure out ways to keep those two conversations um not not separate but but blurring the lines in a way that creates some dangers i i

SPEAKER_42: think is something we have to guard against yeah lots of education lots of opportunities josh shapiro thank you so much for coming on all in and we look forward to having you on again and

SPEAKER_17: good luck with your uh race good luck with your 76ers i will see you in the second round it looks like next year or next time i'm on i'll be wearing a sixers hoodie so um go next i'll see you courtside

SPEAKER_148: my friend you go to the games