SPEAKER_00: hey everybody there's a lot of news going on today it's friday and we were going into the weekend with a great episode and then obviously there's been some absolutely crushing breaking news here on a friday from the supreme court so here's what we're gonna do yeah skip it okay

Jason Calacanis: we're just listen there is gonna be a lot of conversation about this we're gonna have things to say we want to be able to talk about this cogently and calmly and also put together some thoughts on the the kind of digital surveillance atmosphere in which this decision is being made but we talked about it before the show and we decided we have a great interview recorded we have a great okay boomer and maybe this is just the place where you get to take a break from this

SPEAKER_08: right for today yes and uh we also have a great uh this week in climate and vc sunday school coming

SPEAKER_11: on sunday so molly and i will collect our thoughts we'll talk about all the tech and angles to roe v wade being uh repealed and uh we'll be with you bright bright and early on monday ready to discuss

SPEAKER_00: this today we've got a great interview with the anonymous account praying for exits you know he's on instagram and twitter and he uh you know takes it to the uh tech industry but in a very insightful manner we discuss everything going on in markets road stocks crypto startup valuations and how they've reset post crash and maybe some of the behavior of new venture funds and a lack of discipline and what the next year is going to look like for both sides of the tables investors and for

SPEAKER_13: founders and we even talk a little bit about what was behind the old all in podcast controversy

SPEAKER_09: it's going to be a great episode we also as usual have okay boomer on friday we're just doing you know what we're doing this week in startups just doing that's what we're doing today yeah that's it so

SPEAKER_15: stick with us it's going to be a great episode and sunday is going to be awesome yes stick with us

SPEAKER_17: this week in startups is brought to you by microsoft for startups founders hub for the challenges you face as a startup founder microsoft for startups founders hub is here to help the platform provides founders with free resources like azure credits development tools like github mentorship resources productivity software training and so much more the program is open to all and takes five minutes to apply with no funding required learn more and sign up at aka.ms slash this week in startups intercom if you're an early stage high growth startup you can get access to intercom's early stage academy today at a 95 discount join the program today at intercom dot com slash early dash stage or email them at startups at intercom dot io and vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast twist listeners can get one thousand dollars off for a limited time at vanta dot com slash twist all right everybody next up is

SPEAKER_19: one of the my favorite people on the show that i've never met we've had two anonymous guests in the history of this podcast one of them was biffinext an anonymous crypto account uh with you know an axe to grind against tether and the fact that they won't release information about their holdings we thought that would be a pretty good public service to do that of course with the disclaimers that who knows what the agenda is we don't know and the other one uh is praying for exits which is a satirical instagram account that uh let's face it you know it takes the piss out of the uh technology industry but in a very i think intelligent fashion so this is the second time i'm having praying for exits on

SPEAKER_22: the pod mr exits are you there i am great to see you and uh what what a difference a couple months makes

SPEAKER_23: so uh yeah i mean we we talked in december and we were talking about it being the peak of the market and sure enough here we are six months later uh and it is hopefully the trial hopefully went peak to trial here let's start with that in terms of the carnage um in your career i know that you are

SPEAKER_19: in all likelihood a millennial uh you're not like a boomer that's for sure so this is your first major pullback you've seen or perhaps your second uh if you were around for 2008 yeah i think i was

SPEAKER_27: tangentially around for 2008 i didn't have a huge amount of money on the line um but this time time around it definitely is a lot more acute feeling for sure how does it feel to see something blow up

SPEAKER_11: this dramatically you know for the first time up close and personal while you're actually working

SPEAKER_23: in the field do you feel like you're like landing at the beach like in that saving private ryan meme video that they always make with everybody getting uh you know just absolutely annihilated

SPEAKER_27: uh landing on the beach yeah i think and this is something that we kind of talked about last time i was on um it feel it felt like we were actually at peak exuberance um in december and there were a lot of points that you and i both made where uh we couldn't necessarily really understand what was happening um in the market at the time and so you know while i do find it somewhat shocking at how violent maybe the pullback has been and how persistent it's been you know i think we've had maybe like 10 green days and i don't know a couple of months at this point yeah um so i think that that was very very it was it was new for sure for i'm sure for most people who have been in the industry in the last 10 years that was also a very new feeling um but i can't say i was necessarily surprised um you know you see all of the different kinds of speculation that was going on uh in in the markets uh at the time um there was only really one way it could end especially with all the money that had been pumped into the system um and we're just i think we're just seeing a very natural uh pullback we might have gone a little bit too far but i do think it was uh necessitated by

SPEAKER_33: a lot of the things that we were seeing that you know uh people who've been in the industry for a

SPEAKER_35: while may not have been agreeing with yeah and i think the the way you framed it is exactly correct

SPEAKER_23: we knew that uh there was a lack of discipline to say the least in the market we knew there was a

SPEAKER_12: sense of entitlement brewing on all sides of the table you know the the founders the investors perhaps

SPEAKER_23: even lps this incredible sense that like hey if you place a bet it goes up and that's just how it works and in fact dave port and i kind of made a joke meme about it that you know buying stocks when he was doing uh day trader davy whatever he was doing was stonks go up that's just the nature of stocks well now here we are a violent crash it has been 80 90 uh retreat and obviously private market companies they behave a little differently because they're not measured every day uh in stock price when we look back at this moment in time uh and let's just say the peak market 2021 what stands out to you as the peak moments and the most confusing that now do not seem as confusing as

SPEAKER_27: they maybe did that year sure i think um and one thing we actually touched on the last time we spoke was um kind of the place that founders felt like that they were in um which was they had 100 of the power um they were sort of the gatekeepers into their own rounds um you saw you know um a high level of just because nobody had experienced anything like this before i think you saw an extremely high level of like confidence and sort of self-reverance um that was present in in the founder side of things that i think has uh been quite humbled um and i think that you know the playing field on who's providing more value in the situation um has kind of leveled out a little bit more because obviously when things were good a year or two ago everybody had money everybody had a fund everybody had 50 million dollars to splash around um and now that has constricted quite a lot i'm sure uh you being a capital allocator yourself you're very aware of what the lp markets look like and so i think that you know if you're investing and you have dry powder and you have a point of view um that you can invest into right now um i think you have far more power um than founders do in a lot of cases and so it's

SPEAKER_23: really interesting to see how quickly that switched up yes the dynamic built up over the last 13 years of bull market 2008 to 2021 that 13 year bull market uh all of the power in negotiation just went to one

SPEAKER_12: side of the table founders who could raise money and say if you want to invest in this company you can't do diligence uh and i had many times this was the to me this was the one that was the screaming red flag

SPEAKER_19: when people said hey you're putting in 500k you're putting in a million you're the fifth largest check in this round you're doing more diligence than the four people ahead of you and you know one of them is putting in five and the other ones are putting in three and nobody has asked for customer references nobody has asked to see our uh bank uh statements right and you know we have like a standard diligence list we would ask people for mr exits and some people got i dare i say upset at me for wanting

SPEAKER_12: to do diligence and i said well you know there's there's lps we deploy their money they just at some point you know things might not work out for an investment and somebody might say like what did

SPEAKER_19: you do in terms of diligence this is an edge case but you might want to be able to open a diligence folder in a you know a document where you said hey here's what we checked this is what we knew you know if you were a veranos imp uh investor you know you might go back and look at your diligence say hey where did we go wrong and that to me was just a screaming red flag of course cryptocurrency um and startups that had yet to launch their product raising at valuations that were larger than companies that had actual revenue and launch products that to me was the

SPEAKER_11: other screaming red flag thoughts on those two yeah i think um first of all there were multiple deals

SPEAKER_27: that i had to pass on last year um because i was told that if i wasn't going to be a lead or co-lead i wasn't entitled to the data room so that is yeah wow so that is um you know to your point uh even if you're writing a million five million dollar check if it's a 40 million dollar round and you're not putting in the most of the money people were very tentative to share data rooms and i think that um that's a function of the other side of the coin that you just brought up there which is um a lot of people if you actually looked at their data rooms there wouldn't be a lot in there because they they haven't really accomplished much and so they would be thin they'd be super thin and and i think that they would actually in a lot of instances if you had to have like a structured data room put together for a lot of these companies it would in fact work in the opposite way that it was intended to in the sense that you would be you kind of see the emperor without any clothes um and so i think that in a lot of instances not only was it because um you know people felt like there was some benefit to being extremely secretive but i also think that it was because a lot of these companies were raising on promises that aren't necessarily visible through traditional financial um diligence means and so uh when you're betting on kind of like the exuberance of the market and the promises of things to come in the future uh it honestly doesn't even make sense to have a a data room because what would

SPEAKER_00: even be in there and so exactly i mean there could be a couple of check marks like you've actually

SPEAKER_23: incorporated um you um have an employee stock option plan uh you have ip assignments these are the

SPEAKER_19: things in a you know pre-launch company that you just want to make sure are in place right but you're correct there's no chart in there there's no you know projections in there necessarily the even if there were projections those are future so you're just making sure you're like actually investing in a company

SPEAKER_11: that uh in that case um just has like their ip assignments and basic legal uh x's and o's done properly but this is like really indicative of a hot market when a when a founder can turn away money

SPEAKER_12: because they want to look in there but to your point what are you going to see in there and that to me was the red flag in crypto of course i had many people on my team my investment team did 57 introductory calls last week that doesn't count second calls or third call so just introductory calls 57 in a week mr exits um and so we meet with every we'll meet with anybody right we really want to meet a lot of people and kind of put plant a flag like hey we met them and we'll check in with them

SPEAKER_11: later it was just amazing to me over the last couple of years the evaluations of crypto companies that didn't have products in market 50 100 250 million dollars and like you're saying there's there's no if you were to open the data room that would show no customers by some estimates over 90

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SPEAKER_51: it's truly open to any founder like it should be and it's not about who you know it's about what you're building so any founder at any stage can get up to six figures of value by signing up at aka.ms slash this week in startups take a minute to write this down aka.ms slash this week in startups no spaces no dashes make sure you use that url so they know you're a fan of the show do you find that to be

SPEAKER_27: the fault of the venture capitalists or do you find that to be the fault of the founders that paradigm

SPEAKER_51: that you just described yeah so i think in some cases there were neophyte uh investors who did not want

SPEAKER_23: to upset a founder okay so there could be multiple dynamics going on here but just working this out

SPEAKER_12: there were vcs who maybe were recently founders or they just have no experience and probably no mentoring because they started their own fund you know they started their own 10 million dollar fund they rolled their own on angel list whatever which is totally fine in my mind but you understand that they maybe nobody there was no bill gurley or no rule off or no michael moritz saying hey here's

SPEAKER_19: how we evaluate companies at sequoia at benchmark so with no mentorship or light mentorship they might they might just say you know what i don't want to i don't want to upset the founder i'll lose the deal if i ask for information etc so yes they would have perversely been enabling their own demise uh because

SPEAKER_11: they just didn't feel comfortable and they wanted to be popular i sometimes will be unpopular with a founder in the short term uh i can give you one anecdote i had a founder who um we had an agreement that we were investing this amount of money we had over a 10 percent position in the company

SPEAKER_19: and um that came with a board seat and they demanded we give up our board seat in this bridge round that was coming up because this new investor was going to put more money in a higher valuation all this stuff and i said listen you know we have an agreement so what you know we're inclined to go just go with the agreement for now if we own under 10 surely maybe it makes sense for us to give

SPEAKER_12: up the word seat to somebody else so maybe we go forward with that and that seemed like a reasonable way to handle it they got very upset at me um that i was not being founder friendly that i was

SPEAKER_19: like this is not the jason calacanis i said whoa whoa whoa whoa we gave you you know millions of dollars um we have an obligation to rlps as well it's unfair for you to say we should now having

SPEAKER_12: given you all that money have no insight into the business and not be stewards of the business when we own such a large percentage we're the third largest owner in the business after your two founders sure enough company had all kinds of issues investigation because of financial irregularities and problems and the co-founder quit so you know it in fact blew up the founder a year later two years later came to me and said you know what you uh explained to me why you need to have the seat

SPEAKER_19: you then were correct things got off track and then you wound up being my biggest supporter when we cleaned up all that mess i really appreciate you jake out so it was like a little bit of an arc and sometimes in the short term the job is to not be popular it's to be candid and honest and to be a you know a real part a true partner which is tell people if like things are up you know what i'm

SPEAKER_27: saying 100 i think that um your point uh is it resonates with me that i feel like venture especially in the last year or two um it was turned into a little bit of a high school lunchroom uh in the sense that you know you had a bunch of new kids new freshmen um in the at the school and you they were trying to figure out what their place was and like anybody who's kind of trying to figure out their place in a much bigger community um you saw like a certain level of assimilation and i think that was towards uh more negative things like not doing diligence rushing into deals co-investing just off the base of who you were co-investing with and not anything else um and i think that you see i think a lot of people felt a certain level of imposter syndrome maybe over the last year or two and to come to combat that um you know the only thing that they could really do to validate uh you know their newfound position in this ecosystem is to be like oh yeah well i invested with the best i would've invested alongside the best crypto funds in the world we've done deals with andreessen we've done deals with sequoia but if you were to ask what the thematics behind all that was there's no real there's nothing really there and so i think that what you've seen is a bunch of people assimilating into these negative habits um that were kind of propagated by all of this money that was poured into our ecosystem recently and that has just become a death spiral for a lot of people and i think you're going to see a lot of these funds these 10 15 20 million dollar funds that were given to a first-time manager who you know has some tangential relation to technology far far away um i think that you're going to see a lot of those turn into zombie funds and yeah one and done

SPEAKER_60: hopefully yeah yep totally it's a really astute observation um especially for somebody of your age

SPEAKER_12: and generation like i think for some reason you uh took this job more seriously than maybe some other folks and you know if you watch any of the shows we were we crashed about we were the theranos one these were amazing shows i i as super pumped i couldn't get into i thought it was it didn't click for me i'll say um for whatever reason but there's always some people in these stories who are around the table we say you know what our unit economics or this is an issue whatever

SPEAKER_19: and they basically get run over and they're the person at the party who's like you know what like maybe we shouldn't light that couch on fire in the house or you know like somebody who's pumping the brakes and just trying to keep things safe kind of becomes the killjoy right and i think a lot of people wanted to be popular and they and and they they substituted like you're saying in high

SPEAKER_23: school being popular you know and but then they were conformists and then they developed really really bad habits and now we're going to see the opposite now is the age of the builder now is the

SPEAKER_12: age of uh real businesses product market fit and i have committed now to doing twice as many investments i'm working twice as hard now as i said we did 57 first round meetings and i'm trying to get

SPEAKER_19: that number to 70 meet 70 new companies a week get them in our database and then start tracking them and see where in their life cycle they are so we can make these investments i had a company that was

SPEAKER_11: you know i don't want to say demanding but was demanding you know let's just i'll pick a number 30 40 million dollar evaluation and they came back and i kid you not like closing around in the you know 10 million dollar range uh and this is in a matter of weeks so the market has shifted dramatically

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SPEAKER_19: great topic what are you seeing in terms of earlier stage valuations people were investing 25 to 50 million pre-product market fit they were investing 50 to 100 million at a 200 times revenue so 500k in

SPEAKER_63: revenue could equal 100 million dollar company what are you seeing now what do you see now mr i'm seeing

SPEAKER_27: that uh i'm seeing those multiples compress quite a lot um i'm seeing you know say you have 500k in revenue i'm seeing maybe like 20 to 25x um if you're a good founder maybe a little bit higher than that or like a multiple time founder or you know you've done something of note uh in your career then that

SPEAKER_00: goes a little bit higher get a little extra credit for your track record so you're saying just to

SPEAKER_23: reflect back to you 20 times revenue so 500k 20 times revenue is 10 million um 30 times revenue 15

SPEAKER_27: million so something in that range yeah and then if you're if you're a multiple time founder and you have you could probably maybe squeeze out 20 to 25 but i like all last year i was seeing pre-product

SPEAKER_73: seed rounds 50 mil all day long now explain what that means to somebody who's not in the business you're seeing a 50 million dollar evaluation on a business that's accomplished what mr exits it has

SPEAKER_27: accomplished a deck and uh like a pitch deck correct okay so they have the pitch deck what else do they have value they have a pitch deck maybe in this in the case of crypto companies they have a white paper um they have assembled some sort of semblance of a team together of you know let's call it three to five people who are going to create the sort of foundation of the company and then it's a whole lot of promises as to you know these are the types of people that are going to hire this is how we're going to implement the product this is the types of people we even need to hire to build the product

SPEAKER_00: so they have a strategy they've got a plan they've got a pitch deck to sell you on that plan

SPEAKER_12: and they have maybe two or three people who are now working on this full time or maybe contingent

SPEAKER_27: on closing the revenue for sure and they've also drummed up some level of um you know like interest in from like specific uh you know they'll say oh we have you know a few angel investors and these angel investors have um a tangential relation to this specific industry that we're tackling and they got

SPEAKER_12: an advisor they got a jason calacanis they got naval they got kevin rose they got somebody with some tim ferris whatever i mean those were the original ones you tried to get in your passport i don't know who the new ones are but it might be i don't know who the new past i call these the

SPEAKER_23: passport stamps in our business there used to be y combinator naval me kevin rose tim ferris gil penchina you get one of those ron conway would be the best one you get ron conway on your uh you know cap table okay now everybody else can feel safe as you said people were using you know affiliation

SPEAKER_12: as a proxy like you know this bizarre term social proof um to get other people to put their money down but if you think about that 50 million dollars in value is supposedly created for a 20 slide pitch deck and three people saying they're in i mean it's like you're getting two million dollars per slide of the death that's how history will look at this is that you got two million

SPEAKER_27: dollars for each slide in the deck basically and and the other side of it is that history will look at it as like the people who enable this kind of behavior really couldn't do basic math because the chances that that company has like a meaningfully a meaningful creation of value from 50 mil to whatever it's you're you're kind of like destroying the dynamics of your own fund if you do that enough times because you don't really get to uh leverage the power law in a very good way um if this is really

SPEAKER_00: important to unpack the power law says that the majority of your returns are going to come from

SPEAKER_19: the minority of your investment so if you do 30 investments in a fund your your 95 of your returns will be the top two and that supposes that they are returning 50 to 100 times your money sure so

SPEAKER_27: how many hundred x's are you going to get on a 50 million dollar company that just has a pitch deck

SPEAKER_12: well if you were diluted 50 right you could actually do the math if it was a 50 million dollar if it's 50 million dollars you own 10 of it you put 5 million in so you own 10 of it over time

SPEAKER_19: you'll be diluted you'll instead of own 10 you probably wound up owning five on an exit five on an exit for you to break even becomes a billion dollar exit and to 10x to 20x you would have to be a 20 billion dollar company right so you're you're really it's it's not going to happen unless you hit uber lyft doordash and time perfectly your sale it's just not going to happen for sure and

SPEAKER_22: but all of those companies by the time they had reached a 50 million dollar valuation were far more

SPEAKER_27: accomplished than anything that we see sort of comparable in the market and so like you know i just think that there's nobody really taught all of these new fund managers how like fund return dynamics actually work and so such a disaster yeah it's it's just very very interesting and uh you know i think that that's one of the things that i've really um maybe touched a lot upon a lot of my content is that we really enabled a lot of people who didn't know what they were doing um with a lot of money for whatever reason and i don't know if it was exuberance or ignorance or just trying to be cool um but i do think that you know the the world as a whole is paying for it in one way or another if you look at you know the nasdaq or anything else we just talked about it on

SPEAKER_78: all in which we uh taped right the new episode 84 of all in the comeback episode we taped uh right

SPEAKER_12: before i came on air with you and you look at the three big asset bubbles uh stocks you know three big asset bubbles you know for um you know this cycle you know growth stocks down whatever 70 80 90 percent got crypto down similar and then the last one i think that's going to really show some uh some gnarly um scars is going to be real estate and it always is kind of hard about real estate because people can live in their homes because they have some intrinsic value but you know for me this is when i did my best work the last time around 2008 to 2012 is when i hit all my big hits and if you were if you were investing and placing bets during that period of time you were going to win i don't put any of the success or mine or naval's or gil pancina anybody who did well in that period it was a function of being in the right town it was like being in you know new york in the

SPEAKER_23: late 70s into 80s and you were a musician like punk was happening new wave was happening hip-hop was gonna

SPEAKER_12: happen like you were just as a musician in the right place and this has happened you know for poetry and san francisco during the beatnik era whatever you know television in you know being in la during the

SPEAKER_11: you know 50s into the 60s you know like if you were a television if you were a writer and you could get on a television show you were going to be successful because it was such a giant wave um and i think the wave's gone and now i think a lot of tourists are going to be gone which will

SPEAKER_82: be great for the rest of us who want to do real work what founders what vcs are going to succeed in the coming years in your mind and how are you strategizing your own career

SPEAKER_27: sure i think that um i think that the people who i believe to have um the most sort of prescient thought process right now would probably be founders fund and i think it's because they've maintained such a contrarian point of view this whole time and at the end of the day they were actually right on a lot of things like keith um called a lot of this out at the you know q3 q4 last year um and a lot of the bets that they've taken have kind of been these sort of counter cyclical bets um where they're betting on real people doing real work in person um and that's i know uh a somewhat unpopular opinion on twitter at least right now uh but i do think that um people like that who are really investing from first principle thoughts um are going to continue to do well in this environment because it's an environment where obviously following the leader doesn't really get you anywhere and so you follow them off a cliff correct i mean if you

SPEAKER_93: follow crypto people it was them and louise you'd be literally behind the delman louise car and you watch them crash and then you crash on top of them exactly and so i think that you know to

SPEAKER_27: prevent sort of this mindless going over a cliff it's going to be the people who can really dissect the world and sort of have mental frameworks around what's important and what creates value in the world yeah um that will really do well and the people who are kind of like pontificating on these abstract ideas uh that don't necessarily have any grounding in reality um are going to continue to get hurt because that's that's not like uh it's just not an intelligent way to invest it is

SPEAKER_12: far from an intelligent uh way to invest and i i do think the work from home one we'll just touch on that for a second um is a pretty good tell uh teams that are super serious uh and go to an office

SPEAKER_23: and demand that that's a pretty bold choice in today's era when people are entitled or and or they've opted to you know stay at home and man managing work from home folks is really hard and getting the most out of them and we hear all the anecdotal stories people anytime we go to a party people are laughing about doing four hours of work or doing two jobs and getting paid two salaries is like one of the big you know elite jokes among developers or i've had people who tell me they're

SPEAKER_12: doing free they're doing they're getting paid you know 75k to do social media here and they have three clients paying them four thousand dollars a month to do social media on their spare time but they're obviously doing it all at the same time during the day so um super weird moment in time

SPEAKER_27: yeah and i think that you know i'd like to make like uh i'd like to sort of put a line in the sand here about how i feel about all this and i think that um you know if you want to have an amazing lifestyle then the work from home uh movement is perfectly suited for that but if you want to build something great um i i feel like it has to be at least done somewhat in person whether that's you know hybrid model or whatever i do believe that the beauty of a lot of the stories that maybe i came up with and you came up with while you were sort of early on investing where are these stories of these 12 people in an 800 square foot room hacking it out until they had customers and until things actually started working um yeah and i think that you this idea that we can just be all remote all the time is it put it plays into these narratives of um just kind of following what what the trend is right yeah i think that there are some there are some businesses that actually can't be built remotely because you need the kind of energy and you need the back and forth uh between teammates to really make these kinds of businesses successful and i think that you'll see a lot of businesses that would have that would have succeeded were they in person fail simply because the cohesiveness of the team

SPEAKER_12: wasn't there and so yeah mr exits i think you're exactly right you think about what it takes for an employee to switch from one job to another if they're a remote worker they literally log out of one slack

SPEAKER_23: instance they log into another slack instance they change their email address and you know they return one laptop and fire up their new macbook uh m1 and they're they're back in the game it's

SPEAKER_19: literally can happen in a 20 minute period of time and then you think about the cost of leaving a company where you go to work every day and you've built this fabric and you've got this habit of working with these people going to lunch with these people they mean something to you the relationships mean to something the mission the company uh and so yeah that is one of the reasons

SPEAKER_12: why i think culture wise it's it's very difficult to obviously build culture you know over zoom

SPEAKER_19: constantly and then the other piece to it is like i think there's maintaining a product so if you're maintaining the google search engine if you're maintaining facebook's ad network if you're maintaining the algorithm at airbnb or doing customer support do you need to be in the same room do you need that vibe no

SPEAKER_12: you need to just do your job for eight hours and like you're saying have a good lifestyle so it might be that the core management team is in a place together and then you know each of the verticals or it's kind of like having an outsourced firm inside your firm it's like yeah you're just a widget if you're not at the hq you're not with the ceo you're not with the founders you're not with the product manager you're kind of a widget you're just like an aws service you're like a cron job in the this giant machine which maybe you would be as well if you were in the office but um given what's

SPEAKER_11: happened the upper hand now goes back to companies to get people to come in person yeah you think

SPEAKER_27: especially at the earliest stages i think that if you're building important businesses um the those early moments really define the foundation of what the business will be at its most ambitious point and i think that if you're consistently allowing this level of like i don't know this this level of like disassociative community is is the way i almost look at it um if if you allow that then that's the way that your company will be until it's reached its full scale because that's all anybody has ever known inside those walls yeah and i think it's really important like i feel like a lot of the amazing aspects of company culture that silicon valley had in the 2010 era has been just destroyed by um work from home and and me as somebody who got to witness how great the businesses that were built within those contexts were it really kind of makes me sad to be honest yeah i mean i'm really missing

SPEAKER_23: going to an office and having that kind of structure uh i do also like the fact that when in the winter i got 40 days of skiing in and i was able to do four days of skiing in the you know i would mark out three hours in the afternoon and ski and then do my meetings again at four o'clock and

SPEAKER_115: do the show before 12 and it was a pretty great lifestyle but again people are at different points in their lives have to make different choices but you know everything everything becomes you know

SPEAKER_12: um an advantage so if you think about this from first principles if a person wants to come to an

SPEAKER_19: office and engage and put in 10 12 hours a day to change the world you know that's kind of addicting

SPEAKER_12: and if the founders do that and you self-select for that how does that company not have a big edge against their competitors i think bill gurley tweeted about this just recently it's like if you want to know what it's like like just listen to uh frank sleutman from snowflake uh and ask yourself like what

SPEAKER_23: would it be like to be competing against him with his like crazy you know wartime ceo all the time

SPEAKER_12: and if you want to know what it's like take a look at uber versus lyft and how that turned out when

SPEAKER_19: my guy was in the ceo seat like you wanted to go up against travis you i could tell you 10 founders who call me like hey your guy is just too hardcore and i was like yeah that's why he's my guy for sure

SPEAKER_27: and that efficacy would have gone down a lot if he was trying to be as hardcore as that over zoom like it's just you know how could you be that hardcore yeah it's really important for founders

David Friedberg: to understand what sock 2 compliance is basically if you're a sas or a services company that stores

SPEAKER_19: customer data in the cloud then you need to be sock 2 verified from a third party to close major customers it's that simple if you're not sock 2 compliant you can't close big deals but sock 2 verification is brutal the process is tedious time consuming and expensive but now there's vanta

SPEAKER_51: vanta software makes it much easier to get and renew your sock 2. on average vanta customers are sock 2 compliant in just two to four weeks compared to three to five months without vanta and they partner with over two dozen audit firms who have been trained to file sock 2 reports directly within vanta and congratulations again to christina and the team at vanta for raising 110 million dollar series b what an amazing company and my investment firm we got a little taste yeah no conflict no interest they

SPEAKER_19: advertise we invest in their company all my startups use their product here's the best part vanta is going to give you one thousand dollars off your sock too that's vanta.com twist for a thousand dollars off your sock too all right you got a lot of questions you told everybody you're coming on the pod

SPEAKER_00: you got a couple questions so it's a good time for you and i to maybe take some questions i would love to

SPEAKER_27: i think that the you probably can't talk about this too much but we never know i'm an open book okay so one of the biggest questions that i'm sure most people have been asking you and have been asking me is maybe you could give a little bit more context to the disappearance and reappearance of the pod and how you feel about um you know how you feel about uh just how publicly it was sort of displayed for

SPEAKER_105: everybody sure uh i would not normally talk about it but literally at the opening of episode 84

SPEAKER_19: uh which will come out before this uh we've literally hashed it out because i i didn't think the the fellas wanted to talk about it uh so all in is a phenomenal success uh obviously you know

SPEAKER_11: going to the top 25 i think was our peak 25th largest episode in the world i guess on the rankings

SPEAKER_12: uh pretty crazy right and you can see what it's done inside of our industry i can tell you qualitatively mr exits it's like even a magnitude more than my previous notoriety in our tiny little vertical tech

SPEAKER_19: sure and finance so i would get at a tech conference i'd get asked to take five selfies you know walking around a random city to get a cup of coffee over two hours i will get asked to take five selfies so

SPEAKER_23: it crossed over into mainstream so this is a new uh level of attention for all of us and even me with who had the highest profile before this and i guess chamoff with the spax was also going in that

SPEAKER_12: direction i think it was just a lot of attention and everybody wants to know all the possible things we could do with all in you people see all in they think okay well this is the future of everything they

SPEAKER_23: project into it right um and so we've had a bunch of people you know who want to take the show to whatever podcast platform network we have people who want to do you know uh all kinds of affiliations

SPEAKER_12: with us right it's very rare that you create a top podcast it's the number one podcast in our space that's a big deal also it's not monetized that's also a big deal right we're just leaving probably 10 million dollars on the table a year without ads but we all agreed it not having ads kind of is part of what makes it cool so you agree with all that i take yep yep i agree with my agreement yeah so uh

SPEAKER_00: then we decide hey maybe we should do an event that'd be fun the fans want to meet us so i said okay i'll do it here's what my vision is we kind of make it like ted or you know like a summit not for not thousands of people not 200 people but let's call it 400 600 something in that zone it would depend

SPEAKER_19: on the space we do the all in summit this thing becomes a juggernaut out of the gate three million dollars in ticket sales almost instantly then instead of selling the next three million we decided

SPEAKER_12: to do the scholarship program and basically capped the revenue at three million didn't sell any sponsorships could have sold a million or two it was modestly profitable we we spent over a million on the parties and so i said hey listen guys i'm doing all the work here you guys just show up i think

SPEAKER_00: i should get a little bit more in terms of getting paid like being the producer of this and equity and for a while like some people wanted to do that some didn't and then we agreed that i would get a little bit more equity 20 more equity no 10 more equity than anybody everybody else and just get a

SPEAKER_12: simple you know low six figures fee for producing the pod and the show and everything then everybody

SPEAKER_00: was like no this is unfair and so literally what's happened over the last month is this negotiation and i said listen it's important to me if i'm going to do all the work that i you know get recognized for that and then we realized you know what we're ruining the whole pod by making it a business let's just go back to a four-way split and it makes no money and we just do 48 episodes a year whatever

SPEAKER_27: it is and so that's where we wound up that's great that's far less uh chaotic and um uh crazy than a lot of people were making it out to be so uh it's great to well it was actually pretty chaotic and

SPEAKER_12: crazy i mean you have four here's the other thing i've learned through this whole thing these are my friends like my best friends in the world um and negotiate i don't negotiate hard against my best friends you know like i'm just like these are my best friends i'm just i just told them like hey do you think i deserve a little more because i'm doing all the work and some of them were like yes some of them were like no so it kind of tells me where i am in the friendship so it was actually a good experience for me to see where people were at um and then doing business with your friends

SPEAKER_19: kind of sucks um especially when your friends are all masters of the universe maniacs who run their own fiefdoms this is like game of thrones the four of us like all four of us run businesses all four of us run funds all four of us have strong opinions so to try to make a

SPEAKER_12: decision like the all-in summit results in absolute utter chaos an event takes thousands of decisions the podcast each week takes dozens of decisions it's just very hard to get consensus among four really smart guys who are very strongly opinionated and are used to being dictators so there's another sort of lesson so net now we're not going to have another all-in summit the podcast is just going to be the podcast i'm going to do more podcasts as i always have i've done maybe six or seven podcasts i have a couple of them running right now angel this weekend startups all in i'll probably launch another two or three podcasts and i'll be doing my events again i'm just not going to do them under the all-in umbrella because it just seems profoundly unfair to me that i do all the work and then give 75 to them and all i asked for was 10 more so i thought it was a pretty reasonable ask but you know it's just the whole thing is uh a good learning lesson i think for all of us for me especially because i thought and these are my friends they see the value i'm providing they would want to give me 10 more and uh you know i i learned

SPEAKER_27: something different for sure and you know that's uh it's kind of like one of those lessons you take away from a poker table right is uh you know sometimes the people that you're playing with aren't necessarily but their read your read on them isn't necessarily uh yeah what what it ends

SPEAKER_00: up being so totally and so yeah and then after three weeks of this i was just at a certain point

SPEAKER_12: i was like you know what whatever you guys want to do i'm done lobbying for myself i'll just take my energies and i'll put them over here outside of the all-in umbrella there will be no all-in spin-offs there'll be no all-in summit again i'll just i'll do my own summit they may come speak we may do an all-in live episode at my event but we're not going to do anything else under the all-in brand and i'll i just signed a reality tv deal um or i'm sorry it's not signed yet it's i'm negotiating the last couple points to do a reality tv show which i had done one previously um with nbc that didn't make it on air but you know i get these offers all the time so instead of doing all in stuff i'm just going to do it in my own little bucket on the side yeah got it cool yeah um and then

SPEAKER_27: i guess maybe speaking on a little bit of the strong opinion side of things yeah obviously you guys dropped a bombshell of a pod last night um kind of wrapping up the all-in summit and yeah save the best for last yeah had to um and so maybe i guess i think a lot of people were interested in do you feel like your perspective on maybe varda as a company has changed obviously um you know uh like palmer is oh andrel yeah andrel how do you're sorry andrel my apologies yeah um i have always been

SPEAKER_12: a huge fan of palmer's work i think the oculus is unbelievable couldn't believe when i put it on because i have motion sickness the fact that it's gone so far and andrel i am one of the few people probably in silicon valley or maybe in the minority maybe it's 20 of us who believe technology companies have an obligation to work on weapon systems and to work on protecting the country because that's how democracy works now if you're a pacifist okay fine but you know when google didn't want to work for the government to build software systems or whatever um or people don't want to build weapon systems you can make that personal choice but i'm in favor of us having the best weapons in the world to defeat authoritarians who torture people and commit genocide so that's my personal feeling so as i told him many times i tried to invite him on my podcast many times i invited him when he got fired from facebook i invited him when he started andrel many times i invited him

SPEAKER_23: um and he was very offended by what i said about him when it came out that he was doing this uh

SPEAKER_19: posting and backing these like gnarly memes about hillary and all i said was you know if you're that high profile you should not do things under a pseudonym like this because it's obviously going to get leaked and you're going to look like an idiot and your family and the co-workers and their families are all going to bear the brunt of you doing anonymous you know anti hillary memes and all stuff it has nothing to do with voting for hillary or trump just the act of like starting a edgelord meme army covertly in his position i thought was dumb and so you know when i i decided we should release the episode of course i don't hide away from any fight but i was like people don't understand what happened so for people who haven't seen the episode palmer gives his whole talk it's great he talks about andrel and then he says and jason calcanis is the worst human being in the world and tried to kill my career uh and here's how he did it and here's what he said about me and this was

SPEAKER_00: like yeah can you imagine mr exits doing that in front of 750 850 all-in fans brave guy that's brave

SPEAKER_145: he came into my house that was like it was like going into like the warriors arena and it's like let me

SPEAKER_178: tell you why steph curry sucks you know like the places vote with steph curry fans like i'm gonna tell you all the reason draymond green is the worst human being on the planet like it's pretty ballsy i mean

SPEAKER_23: well i think we'd all say that i took serious foot spa and cojones to do that so i give him credit

SPEAKER_00: for that um but you know i stand by what i said i don't think you should do this kind of meme army stuff um and i also think like what palmer's doing is dope so i was like listen palmer we can

SPEAKER_12: agree to disagree on this and i wish you well in your career and you know trump i think is like the

SPEAKER_11: ultimate trolley car problem where like trump just brought the worst out in all sides and created this you know polarization where you know i think it's like hard i think a lot of families are dealing with this right like you had somebody who voted for trump and you know somebody who felt like trump was gonna you know result in their life you know being at risk um and so you know maybe it's a little over dramatic but i think that's one of the things the country's working through totally and i really

SPEAKER_27: appreciate because i i personally um i'm an andrew investor and my entire thesis behind uh supporting palmer in what he's doing is because i do believe that um the most prescient some of the most prescient problems that we have that could be solved with technology exist within the military industrial complex just for the preservance of our way of life basically like yeah and i think that um you know people like raytheon and lockheed martin aren't well equipped to uh to to hire the engineers necessary to keep up with kind of our global adversaries and so um you know i think that what you guys

SPEAKER_12: think it's a great bet too i think it's a great man he's a smart guy what did you think of him

SPEAKER_00: doing that like as an investor because i had one investor was like jake how what's going on with this like what like is he so thin skin that you got under her skin this much like people were a

SPEAKER_23: little shocked that he did it um i kind of like it it's kind of gangster i don't mind yeah yeah no to

SPEAKER_27: me something i would do yeah yeah to me i thought it was super gangster um yeah okay i did think that it was i always um over allocate to people who are desperate to tell the truth because it's so much better than investing in somebody who's on the opposite side of that coin so desperate to hide the truth and so you know although i think that you know sometimes there are more nuanced and and better ways to handle things i do think the fact that he was able to step up and stand behind what he believed with such um you know like such sort of ferociousness um it takes a lot to do that especially when you're playing an away game like you said um and so you know to me that speaks to a founder that would be that's willing to stand up for his company even in the most um intense and kind of like uh you know just situations and so uh for that i i it kind of gave me a little bit more it made me want to support him even more because i know that he's always on the up and up and kind of trying to keep it straight with everybody as far as um as it relates to andrew so i don't

SPEAKER_23: know what the perception is of each of us after that if it's negative positive or neutral but

SPEAKER_12: based on just looking at the you know 24-hour reaction um on twitter and i i saw the first couple comments come in which obviously is the hometown comments people said um you know i think overwhelmingly people said it was a great moment um and they liked the fact that we had this really hard discussion which i think you know freeberg made a good point about this like hey i think the whole point of our podcast and why people like it is that we disagree with each other and we try to come to some sort of understanding of each other's positions and still remain friends and so people said this encapsulated freeberg's position was this encapsulated every reason freeberg loves to do the podcast which is to have those hard discussions and try to all advance our understanding of the world and you know uh and that's why he wants to do the podcast every week and it means so much to him and um and he he was begging me to release it of course i was a little dramatic i was like we're going to release it last uh and that kind of held it because i got a little showmanship in me too

SPEAKER_27: i think also the that you guys releasing that kind of presents actual an actual more realistic view of the duality of venture capital in general yeah because obviously you know a lot of it like a lot of people's perception of venture capital is what happens on twitter which is for the most part pretty sanitized but once you get into these boardrooms and once you get into these discussions about rounds and you know firing people etc it does get to the point that you know you guys got to and even much worse in some instances and so i think that you guys being open about you know people get get along but they can still do dope things in their own individual careers and still contribute to the venture capital system in a very value accretive way um is a great way to kind of be a little bit more honest about what actually happens behind these closed doors yeah it can get messy

SPEAKER_153: and overall you know people who build stuff in the world uh and that you know are the people that

SPEAKER_12: matter and so i think if you're building capital allocating is you know part of that function you're you're building by the nature of placing the bets and sorting through all these crazy ideas and figuring out which ones deserve the capital i believe it's an act of building as well so uh i feel pretty good

SPEAKER_27: about releasing it and the reaction it's getting great um the next question that i wanted to touch on that a lot of people wanted to talk about is how do you feel about managing your own psychology uh as an investor in this kind of macroeconomic situation and what do you um focus on yourself to not try or to be able to not fall into the traps that uh you see a lot of other people falling into

SPEAKER_12: yeah so i believe uh in a core set of principles around the companies i invest in and i am willing to evolve those principles but i think some of them are quite fundamental and they work for me second and we can go into what those principles are but i have a very clearly defined set of principles writing the book angel helped me codify those and then and then teaching this angel university course every couple of months helps me stay sharp in that way so i really examine my process so i am obsessed with process and so for the last couple of months coming into this i said what are the things about the process uh that we can evolve that we can refine and i went on a bit of um you know a mission to make everybody on my team both at inside.com and launch the two companies i run but they're separate entities to be five percent to be ten percent more efficient for each of the next four months which would make each organization fifty percent more efficient you know because of compounding uh not just forty uh so looking at the processes i just thought personal time management and what you're focused on um could be five percent of those gains and then five percent of those gains can come from professional development training basically to get better at your job so i believe if you have a process and you constantly refine it that's the best way to manage psychology and you've seen this the people who if you've ever read victor frankl's uh man's search for meaning uh it's really have you read that right yeah wonderful book yeah so if you if you have purpose

SPEAKER_19: and you're realistic about what's happening this makes anxiety go away so why am i here why am i

SPEAKER_12: doing this and then what is the actual state of affairs let's define reality the reality today is most of these companies are going to go out of business by the way that's always been the reality but it's just going to happen faster and the reality is the money is going to go to the people who are

SPEAKER_19: builders and who can build efficiently and get to profitability and throw a free cash flow once you understand that's the reality well you can build a plan around and then you can build a team to work towards those goals now your psychology should be okay because you've taken what you have control over and you've mastered it you've refined it you've done the best you can you don't have control over external events so doom scrolling or looking at stock tickers is not going to help you you have to if you're coinbase right now like like what what do you do you know well what do you have control over the number of employees you have what your spend is how much cash you have in managing that and then how good is the product if you're peloton what do you have control over the customer experience the product how many your balance sheet and just surviving and then delighting customers so that's how i manage my psychology what do i have control over and am i doing everything i can to set myself up for success with those things and then you're fine you know because at least you uh and people who've been in emergency situations i worked on an ambulance and you know you really start to disconnect from the reality of um you accept the reality that you're going to be called

SPEAKER_11: when people are dying or have died so once you have that then when you get to the scene and you have to do cpr or somebody's been stabbed my first call was somebody got stabbed right above their heart um or it's a car accident people are mangled like okay that's the job so therefore let's just focus

SPEAKER_19: on what we can do from this point forward we accept that death we accept that injury as part of this we're here to get people to the other side of that and so then all of a sudden the anxiety of

SPEAKER_12: the phone ringing at the station for the first couple of months for me was like the scariest thing ever and then it became okay this is part of the process this is the job we pick up the phone where's the emerge bravo where's the emergency i had to answer the phones bravo where's the

SPEAKER_11: emergency great and then we just go try to solve the problem so i think that's the best you can do what

SPEAKER_27: do you do to manage your yeah and i think well i mean maybe reading in between the lines a little bit of what you said um i think that there's for me the thing that i've been trying to get a lot better at is emotional detachment because at the end of the day when you're in the trenches with people that you're working with people that you have evangelized people that you've supported from their earliest sort of state of being as far as companies go um it's hard to not get emotionally attached to ideas to people to teams um to moments in time and i think that um one thing that i've learned that i've been getting a lot better at and has been making me a better investor overall is being able to sort of emotionally detach myself from those moments and and look at them kind of in a vacuum and say hey listen this guy's a great founder i love him um he's extremely smart or he or she is extremely smart but would i invest in this business again today given the macroeconomic climate and if i didn't know this person you know and i think looking at companies uh from an emotional standpoint is never the place that you want to be but i do think that sort of the flywheel of social media and um kind of like this uh sort of position that founders were put in before has created a very emotional space for all of us to be investing in uh you consider fomo and you consider all like you consider all these other emotions that that people deal with on a regular basis in our industry um yeah i think that the best people um moving forward and you've seen this in the past too through other through other crises through other crises is um the people have been able to detach from their ideas and consistently evolve the way that they think and the way that they look at things so they're constantly up to date from like a practical standpoint not an emotional standpoint yeah um i think is a really really important lesson that the people who are going to continue in this industry um are going to have to either accept or uh you know uh involved in their own investment

SPEAKER_12: theses you know when i started in the business it's such a really good point you know um you the amount of work you had to do as an early stage investor to get your founders past the next hurdle of investors was extremely high so i was calling and emailing people about you know uber whatever company to try to get somebody else to invest after us right uh and uber wasn't that hard but other ones were very hard uh and then over the last five or six years that part of the job went away we would just get notices or if we're on the boards we would help them pick which investor they were going to have right now we're going to have to work back you know for early stage seed investors angel investors the job is going to become yeah can you help your seed stage company clear market with the next downstream investors we didn't have to do that for a long time we're going to have to get back to that right so things do change you have to adapt it used to be just make as many bets as

SPEAKER_19: possible and you know watch the write-ups come in you know i was getting all these crazy emails from funds i didn't invest in that existed for 18 months and they were sending me updates like every month of their portfolios going up and they're like we're now 4x cash on cash and i'm like what when did you start this fund and they're like yeah you know our token there was a secondary sale for these shares in this company i'm like that company doesn't have a product launch how are their secondary shares

SPEAKER_12: being sold you know like it was very weird um and i can't imagine like i never send those kind of markup emails i send like you know here's the audit super conservative i'm old school like sequoia and other

SPEAKER_11: folks i try not to mark up these investments you know if i don't have to unless people are i'm kind

SPEAKER_115: of forced to like there's a priced round but people are getting pretty frisky with their markups and uh

SPEAKER_27: i've seen some insane uh uh new types of valuing companies that i have never i've seen completely made up uh versions of valuing companies um as of last year which uh you know i think again do you have

SPEAKER_115: them what's the most insane you can mention uh is it like based on the number of employees or like a

SPEAKER_27: competitor or no it's marcus i saw one deal where they were they because the employee uh because one of the employees had sold 25k in secondary to some random family office the whole company was now priced at what that 25k worth of secondary had gotten sold to this one random uh investment firm that i'd never even heard of before so yeah you saw a lot of weird stuff like that where like the volume would be super low but for somehow that would still uh manage to mark the company up to whatever that that traded price was so yeah stuff like that got really weird last year the emotional

SPEAKER_12: detachment thing is important um i had you know a couple of founders who had maybe two and 350 investments that i didn't see eye to eye with where we had like a meaningful position and it was just like you know what i shouldn't be on your cap table you know in one case you know people were doing things that i just thought was like you know borderline you know could be legal issues i was like you know i don't need to be on this cap table with you you can just buy me out i could redeploy the money somewhere else and other ones were just making high risk doing high risk behaviors that i was just like this is not why we're here like let's deploy the capital properly and in one case i'm still an investor the other case i'm not and i i just tell people when that's the case and this is i think what you'll learn when you get into your second decade i think

SPEAKER_11: you're still in your first uh mr exit says you don't have to be on every company and you could leave so you know i've had situations so you know buy half my shares back i'll give them to you at

SPEAKER_12: whatever this last round is the next round we'll come up with something get me below the threshold have a board seat i'll keep idiot insurance i'll keep four percent of the company sell four percent get me out of here you know it's actually happened three times in 350 companies um which i think is pretty

SPEAKER_27: low actually yeah no that is that is pretty low um you haven't had to do that yet you haven't had to have that conversation i i've had those conversations but they've come out a lot less

SPEAKER_19: than me getting my money back so yeah that's usually when there's when the thing is crashing okay any more questions from your amazing audience that people really need to hear the answer to yeah i think that

SPEAKER_27: the one last thing that we could touch on and it seems like um you know this was this was a pretty constant question too is uh what sort of verticals over the next couple of years do you see a lot of value in and which ones do you feel like will fall to the wayside because they actually never had any

SPEAKER_105: value to begin with yeah and there was when i saw that was what are you optimistic about so those two

SPEAKER_11: are really good um so i am seeing that the consumer package good businesses and the consumer hardware businesses um are really really um out of favor and some might argue unfundable um now that might be obvious to everybody because they have lower margin they're not software-based businesses typically so you're seeing the d2c stuff that went public is getting demolished obviously meat has never been a good business and buzzfeed you can see that there peloton is a hardware product with a subscription so it was a darling for a while now it's probably too out of favor there's something in the middle for that business because it's kind of hardware as a service i think if they uh did it as such it would be better um and so i i those categories are really food barred the things that are classics for all time

SPEAKER_19: are making software that make uh humans uh that take away pain and suffering for humans or make them bionic or superheroes so any software that can make a human in their personal private public professional life better at what they do and better can come in a lot of fashions you can do something faster you can do it better you can do it cheaper um you could make it more delightful like some stuff some software is not much different than what came before if you look at coda you look at notion you know i love these products you know you look at slack i love that product are they much different than the irc chat rooms that came before them or the wikis that came before them in some some might argue no others might argue they're completely different i would argue um their design and the thoughtfulness of the user interface makes them dramatically different it's a completely different experience to use media wiki to edit a wikipedia page than to use coda to use notion or these modern you know document sharing stuff even using google docs which made word look terrible you know like now using grammarly and using you know notion and coda it's just so much more delightful so there's always room to make something more delightful to make people more efficient marketplaces will always be in favor i think fintech is out of favor now because of robinhood and

SPEAKER_11: coinbase and all this cohort that i think maybe their valuations got pretty robust uh because there's a lot of activity in them i think that's still going to be a great category so that's one that's probably went too high and now is too low um yeah and then in terms of who is going to get funded and who's going to thrive i think we're back to builders instead of storytellers you know people could actually build product so you know the elon musks you know the jacks of the world uh you know uh i think they are really good at product design and making great product and we've spent the last five years of people who are really just good at telling a story um maybe not actually acting out the story does that make sense like totally uh i just yeah i i literally got the domain name webackbuilders dot com and i and i'm thinking about changing everybody's email in the company to that and then that would just forward to launch or whatever because i want everybody to be really focused on that like we we back builders we want to back builders if you can build the product yourself man it's such an easier bet for me to make i think it's one of my big secrets is you know the the people who i invested in you know travis you know alex from calm and michael from calm like when we would look at the product we'd have these really rich product decisions and then i would talk to crypto kids and

SPEAKER_19: i don't want to like you know bash them too much here while they're down but they didn't actually talk about their products or have products or talk about their customers the customer obsession and the product obsession is just such a tell you know like if you're obsessed with the customers and the

SPEAKER_11: product like elon is you know like jack is your your chances of winning go way up way way way way up

SPEAKER_22: yep i think you hit the nail on that with that for sure all right now we think we know who you are but

SPEAKER_00: we'll never say but uh when you do come when you are you going to uncloak at some point that's what the

SPEAKER_52: audience wants to know and then some people know who you are does your firm know who you are that you're

SPEAKER_27: doing this or not they kind of yeah so it's kind of a moving target um got it you know there's some people who know some people who don't uh for the most part like i really enjoy privacy and the whole entire point of even launching a fund um via the page uh was to really show people that you didn't have to fall into the same trap of like this egocentric venture capitalist to be able to win allocations and to be you could really just be an anonymous person with strong ideas and a good perspective on the world and people will resonate to that even more so than you know the person who publishes 100 medium articles on random you know aspects of the industry and so i think you know my whole point with all of this was that i really found the sort of egocentricity of the venture capital industry to be kind of gross in a lot of ways and um misaligned with the whole point of creating value uh in this space and so yeah i mean my preference would to never be have to would never have to reveal myself because to me it doesn't really wouldn't really change my life in any type of meaningful way i'm able to compete for the best deals i'm able to talk to people like you and other people who are sort of reverential in the industry and you know i'm able to do that all without having anybody know who i am so yeah i hope that you if if you happen to be one of the few

SPEAKER_12: people who know don't don't spoil it be cool with it it's kind of cool to have like a voice out there that's kind of fun and precocious and intelligent right and i think that you do prove a meta point you know even an anonymous account again uh raise a fund and you know based on the merit of their

SPEAKER_82: ideas and their approach and your approach seems solid i can't wait to meet you in person have lunch if you want to uncloak with me and have lunch sometime let me know but your secret is safe

SPEAKER_12: with me forever cool everybody follow praying for exits just do a google search you'll find them praying for exits it's uh one of the more entertaining i'd say the most and bc brags and praying for exits are my top two uh and i have good relationship with both um in fact people thought i was bc brags for a while which i was more than happy for them to think it was me all right we'll see everybody next time take care of yourself mr exits all right thanks

SPEAKER_240: again to mr exits as i like to call him for joining the show now it's time for okay boomer and it's nft

SPEAKER_00: week in new york city so let's see what's going on with rachel reporting producer rachel living molly and i's best life while we suffer away working rachel's out there at the party how is the party

SPEAKER_242: how are you feeling yeah i'm feeling really really good yesterday i was i got really nervous i got a

SPEAKER_244: covet test right after but we're good we're back covet negative too so hopefully hopefully all's good but um we got to talk about all things nft nyc this week with anisha from cypher vc which is a web 3 vc and she's also host of the crypto podcast pilled i met anisha going to some different events earlier in the year and i know that she's really plugged into the web 3 space so i got to talk to her not

SPEAKER_247: just about attending web 3 events but what you should do as a young person and somebody hiring a young

SPEAKER_105: person attending these like irl events these events seem to be a big part of the crypto culture

SPEAKER_00: the parties the after parties dinners etc i wonder though molly if these are being done as opposed to maybe building products like products i could be wrong but it feels like a little too much

SPEAKER_178: partying and not enough producing i mean it is interesting and rachel let me know your perspective

Jason Calacanis: because it it like this is all of everybody says this in the nft world that it's in particular the nft world that it's all about community and so at what point is the community just like too drunk to

SPEAKER_244: get anything done yeah so i am actually not a big fan of large parties i like it when they do smaller things maybe dinners where you can have more of a conversation with somebody and from a hiring perspective um i think this is really important because i didn't know anybody on our team before i joined i am somebody that has never worked from an office before because i'm young and i'm guessing that there's going to be a lot of people coming after me that are in the same use case as like not only web 3 but like tech as a broad whole um comes into hiring and i think it's kind of important to meet people in real life before getting hired onto a team so i definitely do see a benefit to having events meeting other people like doing things like this just to kind of get the lay of the land i think you can vibe check somebody a little bit better in person before jumping into a role full-time however i don't necessarily know if i see that much of a benefit outside of maybe community building and showing off your brand with these giant parties and maybe that's just out of the nature that i don't tend to really go to these giant parties that often unless they're for nfc events but

Jason Calacanis: that's just my opinion i guess but no i mean i like that you guys got tactical like you and anisha got tactical on that topic like how do you maximize events and just save yourself from covet or burnout

SPEAKER_260: or yeah non-stop hangover yeah yeah big tip that she gave is and i think this is a really good one that we both got to talk a lot about is before attending these events do not try to buy one of

SPEAKER_244: the tickets because they're crazy expensive in web 3. we saw there was something like seven grand for certain tickets coming into it there's always a google sheet that gets passed around so if you're a young person trying to find a job find the google sheet first um i think was a really really good good takeaway other than don't attend the google sheet with what how to get in for prey no there's just there'll be a master google sheet all the events will be listed it'll be like the events name who can go say for if it's for web 3 it'll be like your holder if it's for a hackathon it'll be like if you're a

SPEAKER_105: software engineer a vc etc party list got it yes yeah so definitely find that um that was like a big trend that came out of south by southwest people started building lists because the parties were happening like you know being planned same day you know the on the other side of the table molly you know some people are saying that it feels more fair not meeting people in real life because you lose the biases of you know how tall attractive well-spoken the person is things that can influence people how they present themselves and for some roles maybe it's not about presentation and just looking at the person's work is a better thing so this is a big debate i'm hearing in back channels amongst founders like you know i just look at people's code i just look at people's copywriting i just look at their designs and then i hire them i don't care what they look like where they're from how long their community is so it is an interesting debate but it is important i think for real life interactions to kind of get the vibe i mean i sound so weird saying that but you could catch a vibe

Jason Calacanis: uh no you definitely can it still matters it still matters and i like the idea of prioritizing like a good conversation a small gathering a targeted interaction as opposed to just this like

SPEAKER_244: like that's what i'm all about yeah a previous okay boomer um guest actually successfully hired a ton of really great software engineers too from doing uh miami hack week organized by jadan another former okay boomer guest the one that hired a bunch of really great software engineers was eric button from tap which is a fintech company so definitely see uh very excited to see

SPEAKER_105: where once you hire these people then don't let them go to parties anymore you founders out there keep them doing code enough with the parties let's let's produce some product okay maybe a couple yeah

SPEAKER_276: like i did three in a week all right okay boomer up next thanks guys okay boomer i understood the

SPEAKER_281: assignment thank you so much anisha for coming on this segment of okay boomer anisha is from cypher vc and she's host of the crypto podcast pilled and i asked you to come on today because i want to talk all

SPEAKER_284: things nft nyc thank you so much for having me on i'm really excited to chat so first things first can

SPEAKER_281: you explain a little bit about what nft nyc is and why are a bunch of people flocking to new york to

SPEAKER_285: go to a bunch of parties about jpegs i mean i think what you just said explains half of it a lot of people are flocking to new york to go to parties about jpegs or just generally have an excuse to party right um there are a number of crypto conferences that happen every year some of them are occurring like nft nyc i think new york is also a hot spot for a lot of growing crypto communities so there are a lot of people that already live here a lot of people are coming here regularly so when conferences are here you just get an influx of people um so i think it's a great time for communities to come together and you know so much of the crypto community is online and all over the globe so i think conferences are a time when people can come together in person really get to connect and have excuses to you know party and network in all the ways you can imagine yeah and especially with how

SPEAKER_281: many companies not only the web3 space but in the startup space are still fully remote especially with a bunch of young hires i'm like it's a lot cheaper to hire somebody fully remote for example that lives in like ohio then have them you know move all the way out to new york city and have them in office and have the space i feel like going to events whether they're web3 or not are really important for young people to kind of get that networking interaction however um these events aren't just your typical networking events my first web3 kind of conference style thing was at art basel obviously art basel itself i actually didn't go for the nft wave i i went just for you know the the regular the board the boring art but while i was there i um was able to experience a ton of different things in the nft landscape and i was like dang like these networking events are more

SPEAKER_260: like parties um how do you think gen z's in particular like young people should be using these weird opportunities to their advantage besides just having you know like a bunch of free

SPEAKER_285: food and free alcohol yeah i mean there's always that so i would say that it really depends on on what you're optimizing for and what you're looking for while these are different than what you might think of your run-of-the-mill networking events or job conferences um i do think that they are a great opportunity to network but the the different types of events do vary you have events that are more like smaller curated little dinners or happy hours and then you have things that are during the day that might be more panel like and you're not really interacting with people as much but it might be an opportunity to learn and see speakers that you otherwise would never really come in contact with and then you do have the larger parties which do have the free food free alcohol and you know they're like ragers all night long and you may wake up hungover right um so i think if if it's a time for a young person to be like hey i want to meet my team in person i want to bond with them i want to go to some parties with them it is a great time to be able to do that in real life and in that context um in a bonding way i do find that some of the larger parties that you are just you know it's basically like going to a club and you're there all night it's really difficult to have conversations that um you feel like you're digging any deeper or you might even not remember people's names and it's really really loud so i don't think that all of the events are best for facilitating conversations and networking the way that you may think um may be helpful down the line but i think some of the smaller events like dinners are smaller happy hours if you really are mindful of talking to people that you have interests in or even recruiting for jobs a lot of that does happen at conferences i think there are opportunities to do that as well i think it's i i believe i spoke to

SPEAKER_281: jadan who created miami hack week he was on an earlier segment of okay boomer about that same thing going back to hiring how i think this is such an incredible way for companies to hire people and my new anisha and i are not just talking about web3 conferences i would consider most tech conferences to be different than other networking conferences in general my other conference that i've been to that wasn't for tech was called shop talk um i've gone to a ton in college but none as a young adult other than shop talk that wasn't tech shop talk had to do a lot with like the the commerce space right and i went and they're like little there are parties here and there and things like that but overall it was like a convention center um a lot of people like it was very professional going back and forth more of people trying to like sell their products to other companies and less of people trying to recruit and i think tech events are so incredible for that because you have so many talented people spread all over the world and a lot of people in tech don't get out very much and by having these events i think it's really incredible to meet people like irl for lack of a better term because you can really gauge how they are in person and i think it's a little bit better at least to interview and get to know somebody in person before hiring at least i would have felt way more comfortable if i was able to meet like justin and nick and jason and molly in person beforehand before starting like luckily it turned out great but like what happens if it

SPEAKER_284: didn't yeah i also think that for both the candidate as well as the person who may be recruiting them

SPEAKER_285: it's a different context in which you're seeing them which you really can't replicate during an interview whether it's like an online interview or an in-person interview you get to see them interact with other people you got to see them in a more social setting and i think that depending on the role that you may be hiring them for or how they like you know the candidate may be evaluating the company you really get to assess and be aware and exposed to different things that you might not be able to whether it's like soft skills or company culture or how a team interacts with one another or how the individual person if it's a candidate may interact with others i don't think you always get the opportunity to see that in a traditional interview setting so i think there's

SPEAKER_260: like a benefit there as well so from what i know you're fairly new to the cypher team correct like how

SPEAKER_284: long have you been um over at cypher right now so i've actually been working with my current boss

SPEAKER_285: manal hassan for almost like you know a year and a half two years so it's actually been some time but i only joined full time at the end of last summer in august and prior to that i was working with her part-time while also working as a software engineer okay so you're obviously very badass like you are a

SPEAKER_281: jack of all trades for everyone listening i've been trying i've been like just making up excuses to get anisha on this podcast she's one of those people who i met i don't think we met actually in a tech atmosphere but we met like kind of a like a dinner drink situation with other people that work in tech and i was like immediately i was like okay we're getting around sometime like you're so super pumped that you started your podcast i love it um so i was gonna ask you um but i guess i don't know how much you would be able to apply because i didn't realize that you were working with her part-time

SPEAKER_260: while you were still a software engineer but how would you advise companies at these events especially vcs to go in and hire young people like how would they approach it because i don't

SPEAKER_281: necessarily think that just although i i'm like i'm not gonna lie like obviously i'm going to these events but i don't know necessarily how much of a good outcome it is to bring a bunch of young people together a sick dj and then throw alcohol out there and be like yay like how what should vcs be

SPEAKER_285: doing and how could they be hiring during these events um i i think this is gonna partially answer your question but this is also just kind of like a general opinion i hold having been to a lot of these conferences over the past year i've increasingly found that i really really appreciate the more curated smaller events um which don't really look like the massive ragers that have a sick dj tons of alcohol and you know you stay in the line to get in after midnight right i guess that's not the purpose of those

SPEAKER_314: events either like i know they're not the purpose but um but i i think that the events that i've been

SPEAKER_285: able to really foster connections at have actually been sort of the more sit down settings or if not sit down even a room of 20 people maybe you do have dinner and drinks around but you bring together a curated group of people where there are overlapping interests whether they're in the same field whether you may be considering them as potential hires or they just have overlapping interests and you facilitate actual conversations and you play host right and i think sometimes recruiting in this field especially on the venture side of things is kind of a long game it doesn't happen in a traditional you know hey i'm gonna just give you the first interview and then like three interviews down the line you're at your off site right and sometimes it does but i think if you're using these settings to really see candidates in different ways and just get to know them and be comfortable with them and see how they interact with one another i think providing environments and situations in which you can just have them talk to each other and you get to talk to them they get to talk to members of the team in a relatively organic way obviously everything can be kind of curated kind of um guided if you will but i think let's say you have a small happy hour um and i've seen a lot of these where you do dinner first with a smaller group of people maybe it's like 20 to 30 to 40 people and you give them enough time before dinner to chat with one another and then you do do a sit down dinner so everyone gets to see sit down um it's not crazy loud and they can talk to the person next to them yeah and then after that um have a larger more open kind of happy hour drink setting where maybe some other members of the community come and join and you get to facilitate more conversations that way and i think just organically if you as the recruiter are trying to talk to specific candidates just over the course of the night you will be able to find time to speak with them and hopefully it's not a really busy or loud environment that you're able to get in some really valuable conversations um you get to see how they interact with other members of your team and it's a little bit you know just more organic and it's a little bit more conducive to having such conversations than in a loud club environment and i think a mix of those or you know even brunch kind of settings just like smaller curated settings where there is i think events like organizing events is kind of an art right totally if you put together like the different factors that can make it more conducive for the kinds of conversations and interactions you want to happen that is what is important so if you're optimizing for really assessing different candidates for roles that might be people facing or social and you're like hey i want to see how they are going to interact in these settings and i also want to make sure that they have an opportunity to talk to different members of the team how they talk to other potential candidates how do i curate events that like have different variables that make it more conducive for me to observe those things or for me to have those conversations that i'd like to have with them in a relatively organic way right so i think being mindful about how events are curated and how events are thrown and being very intentional about it is important because you know given enough money and resources like you can just throw a party right and it's very easy to be like hey happy hour send out invites to like everyone on this list we'll have alcohol we'll have food come through but that doesn't necessarily like make for the best setting if you are trying to be intentional for a specific purpose and i think we when events are very curated

SPEAKER_281: and very thoughtful it's very clear i totally i definitely agree with you and i think first off shout out to zara from republic she was on a previous episode i think she would actually be a phenomenal contact for people to reach out to um zara from republic previous episode a previous segment excuse me of okay boomer anish and i actually both went to one of her dinners and it was so tasteful it was an iftar it was my first one which was quite quite incredible we had a bunch of good food and the conversation was really awesome i got to meet a bunch of people on the republic team this wasn't like a hiring event per se it was just to kind of like connect other people from the republic team to you know people in other industries really well done and another person that does events really well is my boss jason jason is notorious for having really good events even when i was able to help out um with the all-in summit which passed um last month we were able to talk about things like how to punch up the event by doing things like say there are two different rooms make sure one of them has like a lot lower music than the other room so people were able to converse because people were there was somebody there i know in particular she went she's like i'm here on my scholarship i am on like a sabbatical like i left my job and i'm kind of doing like my adult version of a abroad right now uh in miami and i've decided that like this is a good place to network for work and i'm like this is actually so incredible that jason was able to think like kind of two steps ahead and like really put these intentional spaces around the after um after parties for these events um for the talks so people were able to converse and i think it's great last night i talked to a lot to a ton of people about hiring and mostly they were asking me if i knew other contacts for hiring so if anyone's looking for a job let me know because there are a ton of companies out there um that are hiring mostly bigger um due to you know a bunch of changing things which is great um but unfortunately the event that i was at that we were talking about hiring was a club it was tau for an event for the in-betweeners nft and awesome dj was there blondish she freaking killed it not necessarily the place i want to be having a discussion though about like oh do you know any young software engineers like that's that's really not uh conducive to those kinds of conversations and again like i know those those places aren't necessarily like that's not what they're meant for um but you know that is something i think that i wish more companies in general whether you're in the web 3 space whether you're an nfp whether you're i don't i don't care if you're brex uh they have a ton of events at the corporate credit card it doesn't matter who you are i think having like intentional spaces to kind of foster conversation are really important because you can go to tau any day um but like when are you able to converse with like a bunch of people that are interested in the same thing as you you know what i mean

SPEAKER_285: absolutely i couldn't put it better myself and i think i when i was new to the space i was enamored or just excited and kind of in shock of all the events and um i was just trying to go to hit all the big parties because you hear hey this person's playing like this is supposed to be the biggest party this is like so fun you go with your friends and you just get wiped out and you're like hey i wanted to do some networking i wanted to meet some people in town and even if you like briefly bump into people that you would otherwise want to have a more intentional conversation with at these larger club-like events it's really difficult to get any conversation in when you know you have a dj blasting oh yeah everyone's minds are elsewhere right yeah so i think those intentional spaces are really really important and as someone who's even going to the conferences you see all the events that are out there you make your choices about where you want to go yes but this week especially i've been trying to optimize for those lower key events and specifically going to the ones where i know that people i want to speak with are at and if they happen to be old friends or people that i've been trying to get in you know meet up with for a while i even i'm like hey i know that we all have like multiple events lined up for an evening what time are you going to go to this smaller gathering right i want to make sure that i'm there so that way we have a chance to talk and so i think every little bit that you make it more intentional whether on you as like a person attending an event or if you are curating an event i think every little bit does add up and it can make for a much better experience depending on what you're optimizing for and i've had that experience myself

SPEAKER_281: yeah definitely and it's it's um again like i'm going there's a concert tonight diplo is going

SPEAKER_244: to be there like i'm freaking it's a web3 event i'm definitely going exciting right yeah it's super pumped but it's like you know you're just not going to be able to get those like authentic conversations like you were mentioning before next to next to today's stand it is a balance and i hope

SPEAKER_260: that young people though in like the tech community in general like we don't get most teams don't get a

SPEAKER_281: lot of irl time obviously there are some incredible teams that have chosen to go in the office and have office space um some previous people that were on the podcast that i know work from an office are like party round has an office in manhattan so does palette kai was the founder of palette he was on for party round we had josh so one thing that i think that young people um don't maybe not young people one thing that i think people that are um like native to the tech event world that they don't realize is a lot of these tickets are so expensive i saw somewhere that tickets were like seven grand so i'd like to preface this that we are not buying tickets like if you're listening this is i don't even know if i'm supposed to say this but there are normally sheets like excel sheets google sheets google sheets of events that get passed around before weeks like this that circulate and there'll

SPEAKER_260: be comms like who can go to these if you have to be the the holder of the nft if you have to be a vc a founder whatever it's open to all if it's open to all right cp ahead of time yeah right and there's these giant google sheets so if you're a young person or somebody that's new to the space what i would do is i would go on twitter and literally find other people that have been posting about these

SPEAKER_281: events find them and say hey do you know what's happening and find those i wouldn't buy tickets these are really expensive events and it just would absolutely kill me if somebody shelled out like a bajillion dollars um to to do this and i saw somebody tweeting they're like wow like you paid seven grand to to go to this i was like absolutely freaking not can't do that no no no no so find a google sheet um and then from that google sheet what i would do is i would go into normally it's a party full link although i did see some event bright links which i thought was interesting um go to

SPEAKER_310: the party yeah yeah i was like okay they're like more and more part of full links i also sometimes see luma and then i see like posh posh a scattered view which are like go to my website and they try to do their own thing and i'm like can you just do the same thing as everyone else if everybody can do

SPEAKER_260: party full producer justin and i talk about this all like quite frequently we love different ticket i talk about ticketing i don't know if he loves it but i bring it up freaking all the time like justin what do we think about ticketing apps um but party yeah standardized party full but what

SPEAKER_281: i would do if you're trying to find like smaller events is i would go find that google sheet go to the party full link and then see how many people um are rsvp'd and sometimes you're able to see who already rsvp'd in party full and see their like twitter accounts um which is really nice to see like if you have mutual friends going but um that's a really good way to like kind of scout out those those smaller events which are definitely more beneficial if you're somebody who's either looking to hire or looking to be hired or if you're just somebody trying to network because it's really freaking hard to network as a remote person um before i had this job i reached out to one person every day for 100 days it was like a little personal challenge of mine and it's documented like somewhere on my

SPEAKER_244: twitter because i was like really bad at reaching out to people um like cold turkey so helpful

SPEAKER_285: oh my gosh oh my gosh i used to do that too a long time ago and i still occasionally do it but far

SPEAKER_310: less but i i remember when i was really really new to the industry my background is actually in medicine

SPEAKER_340: and then i was like well okay what can you not do what can you not do let's hear this what can you not okay so i'm hearing like i'm hearing plenty of things doctor software engineer vc podcast host

SPEAKER_342: and it makes you feel any better i can't navigate for like at all like to save my life google maps

SPEAKER_337: who can't use google maps i can't use i can't use google maps and i don't get any pop culture references so i hope that i hope that makes you feel better because it's like shocking how bad i am dude no i love it i love it you're good at everything else if that's the one thing you have to give up

SPEAKER_285: um anyway yeah but yeah what i was i was also just going to add like with all of these events sometimes um i've definitely done this in the past where i think i can hit like four events in a night and then i'm like wait and then i do use google maps because i have no sense of direction even in the city i live in in in new york and so one thing that's been really helpful is like i'll rsvp and i'm like okay these are the three events um what is the vibe of each of these events like how much do i want to go to each each event and then like where are they located right and then like take into account like how long it'll take to get there and realistically when am i going to get there how long do i want to spend there and i think in the past there have been times where i would be like okay there are whatever like three happy hours that are each like from five to eight or six to nine or something in that general time range i can probably hop between all three and stay at them for like you know 30 to 45 minutes to an hour each and then go to the next one um and that's something that i've done in the past because a lot of these events do sound really cool they're in like insane locations where i normally would never um you know pay to get in or it's like you know a more rare occasion kind of thing totally where a artist is playing or or you are trying to see people that you would like to have a conversation with but they are only at these different events right yeah but this time around i've been like you know what i'm gonna pick like one maybe two events that i'd like to go to every day and there might be like a few other events that you know if i make it or if i go to it after that would be great but i'm not putting pressure on myself to go there because running around takes more time than you think and sometimes you go to a party or happy hour and you do have these really good conversations and then you're like wait i can just continue having good conversations here i don't need to go somewhere else in the hope and pursuit of having good conversations at another location if i'm having that here like like why why do you need to do that right and you know there's always like the grass is always greener maybe there's like someone you'll meet at the other place that'll be like cooler or better or more beneficial for you to meet but it doesn't always play out that way and i think sometimes when you're like in pursuit of way too many different things you just get exhausted you don't actually have all the good conversations and you might just be like running around talking people for five minutes because you're like oh like i need to go to the next thing um and that's what i've been trying to do this week and sometimes even like not going to events that i was like interested in or excited about like that's actually okay too yeah yeah last night i went to like a happy hour and a dinner and i was supposed to go to like a late night party like thing that a friend's company was hosting um but i was like you know what i'm just gonna go home and like hang out with my roommates um and i did that and started going to the party probably great i'm yeah i i slept in my bed at not a totally insane hour yeah and i was like i'm not good to go for today yeah

SPEAKER_337: i'm good to go for today um so we went to the bar next door to my apartment i was like this is also a

SPEAKER_285: vibe right yeah yeah um and sometimes when you're chasing the most exciting thing you run yourself ragged and there's so many people that have gotten coveted after conferences or get like super sick i feel like i'm like already sort of losing my voice um but i i think like sometimes it's okay to keep in mind that you don't need to go to everything even if it's like even if you're like i flew to the city to network or to meet all these people it is possible to still do that without doing everything burning yourself out without burning yourself out and that's okay it might

SPEAKER_281: even be like for the best yeah yeah well these are great takeaways i think for people interested in attending tech events and attending nftnyc again don't buy tickets don't burn yourself out find the google sheet a person i'm gonna have to plug the absolute king of dishing out where people are going to be on the weekends andrew young at a m d are you uh y e u n g i believe is his name on twitter he has a link in his bio this he didn't tell me to like promote this or anything this is just like i met andrew one time and he is just somebody that is normally really on top of the tech and business if you're not interested in tech i know he works at facebook so he does have like more corporate kind of events that happen as well but if you're interested in networking i know a bunch of tech companies are laying off right now so if you're interested in looking for a job i would highly recommend um going to his page even dming him um i've gotten coffee with him before he's he's a really great person he would be somebody that would he gives me i don't know if he has the google

SPEAKER_285: sheet but he feels like somebody i feel like or he like she's like in the know i it's funny you say that i actually met him at another one of zara's events of course is there maybe zara is out here like

SPEAKER_358: maybe maybe she's like maybe is she a tech promoter is she a tech promoter it was it was another republic

SPEAKER_285: event cool um so i i did meet him there and he i i think the vibe check is is right yeah um he he definitely knows people and i think because he's more uh like he's at meta and he throws other events himself um and not like exclusively like in the niche crypto like rabbit hole um he he's a great person to

SPEAKER_281: reach out to 100 yeah so i hope everybody has an enjoyable nft nyc this is coming out on friday so almost all the events will be done but if you're on the off chance listening to this right when it comes out hope you have a good weekend or for the next one or for the next one any other events i know jadon again who's uh previously on this week in startups is in town but he was telling me miami hack week you know another great networking event um when i was there i spoke to um eric button from tap and he was my interview for this weekend startups for that week and he actually found a bunch of really good software engineers from that event so miami hack week if you're interested in attending another one would highly recommend looking at that taking these uh little bits of wisdom on how to navigate like the the event space and hope everybody stays safe and has fun thank you so much for having me on thank you so much anisha and oh before you log off

SPEAKER_340: actually where can people find you can people find you on twitter people can find me on twitter

SPEAKER_285: my twitter handle is literally you found anisha spelled as y-o-u-f-o-u-n-d-a-n-i-s-h-a

SPEAKER_338: cool and it's pilled the podcast on twitter right your podcast i think it's uh pilled the pod

SPEAKER_369: so p-i-l-l-e-d did such a good how did you get that handle how did you get that handle you must have

SPEAKER_285: killed somebody for that i i i i get lucky once in a while i i don't i don't ask too many questions

SPEAKER_338: but i snagged it amazing so at pilled the pod and at you found anisha thank you again so much and talk to you again hopefully next week let's grab a drink absolutely thank you okay everybody

SPEAKER_376: thanks for listening to friday's edition of this week in startups yes remember we have a great sunday

Jason Calacanis: show coming up with vc sunday school and this weekend climate startups where i get to talk to the electric sea glider people one don't want to miss that so many cool companies in climate

SPEAKER_02: sustainability and so many great business opportunities my god i just love the sas software companies that are in climate to me that's the huge win when you combine those two

SPEAKER_105: marketplaces maybe too so anyway uh we'll be back monday uh and you'll hear from us on sunday obviously and monday we will have a fresh new show for you you if you want to join us live ask us questions be in the chat room just go to youtube.com slash this weekend you hit the subscribe button right next to it's a bell just try to turn that bell on you'll get a notification on youtube youtube works great in the background you click it you listen to us in the background while you're at work and you may have a question for us and you'll see probably three four five hundred other fans of

SPEAKER_02: the show just tuning in live chewing the fat and uh we'll have a lot to talk about on monday yes molly

SPEAKER_381: we will so hang in there everybody it's listen we we got you we got you we got you it's gonna

SPEAKER_276: be it's gonna be okay it's gonna be okay we're gonna get through this together all right everybody have have a good restful weekend and we'll we'll hear well you'll hear from us on sunday and monday bye bye