SPEAKER_00: we now have one two three four five six brands this is the message to sundar we've talked about

SPEAKER_02: this you and i okay branding at google is challenging it's challenging you call it google

SPEAKER_04: bard a much better idea would have been to take the youtube approach and just call it bard and

SPEAKER_05: get the domain name bard.com and let people go to bard.com and have a completely unique verticalized experience without the google branding yeah and then nobody needs to know about deep mind nobody needs to know about gemini it's just bard yeah and bard is a new product

SPEAKER_11: from google yeah the end this week in startups is brought to you by in brokers startup insurance program helps startups secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle save up to 20 off of traditional insurance today at imbroker.com twist while you're there get an extra 10 off using offer code twist squarespace turn your idea into a new website go to squarespace.com twist for a free trial when you're ready to launch use offer code twist to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain and northwest registered agent when starting your business it's important to use a service that will actually help you northwest registered agent is that service they'll form your company fast give you the documents you need to open a business bank account and even provide you with mail scanning and a business address to keep your personal privacy intact visit northwestregisteredagent.com twist to get a 60 discount on your next llc all right everybody

SPEAKER_16: welcome back to this week in startups let's get to work it's monday that means it's a madra monday

SPEAKER_17: my god sunny sandeep madra people don't know this he's one of my besties when i go skiing every season sunny and i do a bit skiing we uh love talking lifts we talk on the lifts we have talks

SPEAKER_20: about life parenting business everything blast down the mountain your your i think your high speed is

SPEAKER_22: far faster i think my highest ever was 40.2 miles per hour and you blew past that i am slowing down i

SPEAKER_23: don't want to tempt fate here but uh the 54 mile per hour record is not a record i want to repeat we got old man bones we gotta keep it under 50 under 50. do not do not do it again so yeah but this year

SPEAKER_00: i'm going for it this year i've set a target of 50 days on the mountain um five zero five zero but you know i like to go for two hours a day i don't you and i like to go out we do a little bit we have a little maybe we have a cocktail you know it's that pre-descanned today we get that little uh

SPEAKER_16: you know spiked beverage not not bad for the old bones um i like it and i'm not a drinker but there's something about that you know a little a little something at the end of the day a little kalua in the coffee um but let's get to work here everybody loves mondays mondays is our ai mondays and i want to just announce that for 2024 we're locking this in for the entire freaking year 52 episodes nice next year of the ai mondays with sandeep madra and uh we're actually selling the ads

SPEAKER_34: specifically for monday so if you're an ai company uh you can talk to our partnership team or email me jason at calacanis.com there's only three ads every monday so if you get one of those in your hugging phase or your aws or something you wanted to reach people who are obsessed about ai we're going to make this the greatest ai habit that anybody who's an ai developer startup or investor has to come every

SPEAKER_35: monday to listen to this and you've been getting great feedback thank you it's been really fun and

SPEAKER_37: it honestly helps me in my day job and it basically is um you know really insightful i even went and did a little session with our other bestie chamath oh yes yeah you're pushing code with chamath right

SPEAKER_38: we were standing next to you guys did pair programming i love it we did pair programming yeah

SPEAKER_40: he was on the keyboard i got to give him credit so it was really good it's a nice thing to do you

SPEAKER_41: know i don't have the head for programming it's like a little too much focus and yeah you know i get distracted or whatever my adhd but i do like the idea that you help me sort of pop it up and learn

SPEAKER_43: about it we'll do one we'll do one we'll do a pairing session in 2024 for sure actually we should

SPEAKER_44: do it on the air that would be fun for people all right but you know what everybody loves to come

SPEAKER_16: here to watch us and listen to us do these ai demos so if you're listening no problem we're going to explain what's happening on the screen why it's important if you're watching great go to youtube.com this weekend and then you can just hit the videos and you'll find a playlist there

SPEAKER_41: uh my team made a playlist for the ai mondays so just look at the playlists you find that playlist you can watch all the demos and you can see you know even if you missed a couple going backwards is a great idea so uh we're entering year two consider this year two of the ai revolution uh in

SPEAKER_49: terms of chat gpt 3.5 30th was the one year birthday yeah perfect happy birthday everybody

SPEAKER_41: congratulations and you know the big news obviously was google has a bunch of new updates uh so we'll

SPEAKER_51: talk about that today in the notes yes but what do you got first what's what's on first what's our

SPEAKER_37: first demo well i i want to start with um it kind of got lost in the shuffle and i think it's a really really cool product and it's called notebook lm i know about this this is a product by steven johnson

SPEAKER_16: um who is a writer who i knew from new york he's written a ton of books steven berlin johnson is a

SPEAKER_34: writer and there is a tool i think it's called scribner that is a writing tool that like um tim ferris might have gotten into and he was into so when you're writing a book you probably have 20 different sources let's say you're writing a book like malcolm gladwell does like the tipping point yeah you might have 20 different sources of information right and you're you they write these

SPEAKER_16: kind of meta books where they read 20 studies and then try to make an overarching thing so what's very interesting about this is i was on this product this weekend because i saw a wired story about it trending on uh in the news and i played with it this weekend so this is great the google

SPEAKER_04: product the google product notebook lm is a book for it's basically there's a like i said there's i

SPEAKER_34: think it's scribner is the product yeah and steven berlin johnson i remember him from new york really cool cat he's on a netflix show he's written a dozen books he's like a real like why old school wired guy you know like a gen x wired guy yeah yeah and so this is a tool based on my understanding

SPEAKER_51: of it to help you collect lots of thoughts and then make sense of them perhaps in a book format

SPEAKER_70: or whatever it is yeah so look i i think you nailed it and what google's done and i i've kind of you

SPEAKER_37: know started this demo here is um and i i wasn't thinking about it in the context you talked about which is interesting because you and i just bring different perspectives but i think about this as a collaborative space if you've got a document or something and what you know google's done an excellent job but we want to keep giving them credit here i can add documents by uploading them but i can also grab stuff from my google drive got it okay so we're looking at an interface it's

SPEAKER_41: almost like a whiteboard in front of you or like uh would you say a con board where you're putting like little objects boxes yeah i think so on the left you upload your source material the source material

SPEAKER_35: typically copied text a pdf or something on your google drive so that could be a google sheet or a

SPEAKER_20: document amazing yes and you add those in and then once those are in you can start a chat and you can

SPEAKER_37: say tell me about this nda and i just uploaded the the definitive mutual nda and basically it will you know start to do its analysis you know using the llm and it'll explain you know i just asked it here like

SPEAKER_82: tell me about this nda and explains you know what it's for and i can ask like is this a mutual nda yeah yeah how can i be sure right and then you know i like that question you can also do the um sharing so you can add people to this notebook ah so you could add me right now yeah so yeah so i

SPEAKER_37: can add you to the notebook and then we can kind of collectively jam on this and then i can add notes to this and i think sort of the use case you're talking about is a little bit different but i like it as well and you know if you go back into the kind of the this is a good job what they've done they have some example notebooks here where you can kind of see uh you know how how to use it and so this is a little bit more like what you're talking about like a bunch of notes and other things that are leveraging right so on the left here let me describe it in this one they have a an

SPEAKER_00: announcement a letter from the ceo pros and cons of i guess a product some product specs so if you're thinking about a project and a project had a collection of documents everybody says oh i want to create a language model but that's you don't want to get a developer and hugging face replit whatever i may

SPEAKER_41: just want to take 20 documents that my team's worked on so here are the 20 documents about project condor whatever we're doing at the company could be an acquisition could be an investment and i just

SPEAKER_04: very simply upload those 20 documents and it could be uh the pitch deck from the founder it could be

SPEAKER_16: the deal memo internal deal memo external last deal memo for this let's say that we were doing an

SPEAKER_04: investment deal or an acquisition project condors you know google acquiring youtube you might put all this different information in here and then people can ask questions but when they get ask the question and they get the answer all of those become little notebooks in this shared space so i can see

SPEAKER_16: what you're asking the lm i can ask the lm and then we both get the benefit of those queries am i

SPEAKER_39: correct 100 what i really love is you can basically also then use kind of llms to ask about the documents

SPEAKER_37: like i was doing in my example right and i can kind of build on that so i think i think that's really powerful i think this is a really nice interface done super clean collaborative i like integration into the google ecosystem so i'm going to start out and i'm going to give this one like an a minus i think improvement is basically give it more sources here beyond sort of these and it's really up there there's not a lot more they can do i want to start using this kind of in a work process for things and

SPEAKER_41: i like it i think it's a great tool i like it um i give it a b i think it's pretty straightforward right now it's a little confusing until you look at the examples of what you would use this for but i think we gave you two if you're writing a book if you're doing an m a acquisition if you were doing a term paper uh i could see you using this you know if you're working on a project uh you know in graduate school or your term paper with a you know a study group you might put all your notes of each week's notes in here you might put every chapter of the books you're reading so let's say you were doing i don't know uh a cinema studies class i might put in the script and we were doing japanese film studies i might put all the kurosawa scripts in here uh perfect example i might put kurosawa's biography in here and that was the first thing i was thinking was i want to put some books in here

SPEAKER_16: uh but there's a limit i think uh to the size of it and then i was like wait a second how do i get a book in here because they're all locked down with um digital rights management drm yeah so i was like

SPEAKER_34: oh so how do i get something like a biography what i wanted to do with this was take all my favorite business biographies put it in there and be able to query my top 10 business biographies or 50 business but i can't do it i have to get uh a pirated copy like a pdf of it now i don't know ethically yeah you know how you would do that all right listen we work with startups and they are all

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SPEAKER_34: let me ask you a morality question here and this let's say we had we had a friend not me not you but we had a friend that i have an ethical question for you i've bought these 50 business biographies

SPEAKER_41: i also see you know if i do a search of google drives on the web that you know something like an autobiography or born standing up steve martin's great one or you know shoe dog is somebody has the shoe dog pdf in a google drive right you can just search site colon drive.google.com for any pdf you'll find every copyrighted pdf if you want them and i don't suggest you do that and don't steal my book go buy it support authors buy everybody's book but let's say i bought all 50 books and then i put all

SPEAKER_16: i put my top 20 in google notebook from the web where i found them without drm on them is that morally and ethically acceptable to you not saying you do it but what would you tell your friend

SPEAKER_20: gray zone okay so here's how i think about it it's like the time of music sharing before we had itunes

SPEAKER_37: so and i look i i participated in like downloading music because it was the only way to get digital music right uh but once itunes came around i've been using it probably since 2002 it was around very early and i've been using it because you know i think artists should be compensated for their work and of course i'm happy to pay them because that's how the ecosystem works and so i would say until that type of functionality is available in apple ibooks or um kindle or other places yeah because you know i want to yeah i bought it and i want that functionality and the company's not making it available so i feel like it's okay i think the minute those platforms offer that functionality then

SPEAKER_130: i should correctly do it correctly that's kind of how i would feel about it you know yeah you should

SPEAKER_134: be able to so this is for steven uh berlin johnson i believe is his name uh it's been 20 years since i

SPEAKER_00: seen him uh cool cat hey steven come on the show um would be really cool if um you could press the

SPEAKER_41: button there and instead of upload from pdf it said uh sync with google apple uh apple books sync with

SPEAKER_02: amazon kindle sync with audible like why can't i just sync and put those things in there that'd be

SPEAKER_04: an incredible feature um and so it should be allowed and so until it's allowed i would tell my friend i'm okay with it i'll allow it the spirit of the law is you bought it you should be able to do what you want with it this is why i may start going back to buying blu-rays just to not go on a total

SPEAKER_34: total tangent here but i feel like you know like well when sometimes the internet's down or i'd like to have physical copies of like the top 100 films that you know are re-watchable or whatever to have yeah and um you know then trade them with friends and stuff like because you can't trade your digital

SPEAKER_16: library so you if you buy a movie i can't like just give it to you whatever and then they have all these cool things like the director's cuts and the audio tracks and they i can't find those online like if i want to listen to the director's commentary i can't find the director's commentary

SPEAKER_63: uh like on apple it's not there so anyway this is a really cool thing so it's called google notebook

SPEAKER_16: lm google notebook lm correct go search for it it's pretty cool i have to say um and they should actually know what they should do is google has google books for all the books that are and magazines and stuff like that they have all that stuff there so it'd be very cool if they connected it to their

SPEAKER_51: magazine and newspaper archive and you could put the new york times in there and pull new york times archival stories or whatever so if i have a new york times subscription why can't i add that to here you know and just add a couple of new york times stories i'm constantly that's another thing i'm constantly doing is trying to take a new york times story or a financial time story and share it with a friend or discuss it with a friend and it's just like so many roadblocks it's so hard yeah i think the

SPEAKER_37: new york times gives you like a little gift thing now where you can get a couple of articles but i think it's like maybe five a month or something that is helpful so i think that's a nice pressure

SPEAKER_34: cooker to take it off i do like also putting stuff in speechify um which now has speechify studio i saw that for the first time this week where you can create your own voice and then you can read to yourself news stories so you can train your own language model with speechify studio we'll put we'll show it next week um okay but uh yeah you can make like a jcal voice uh from this podcast and then

SPEAKER_37: have me read your news to you i guess yeah and train your own audio voice okay i took a note for it okay so bard has been updated with gemini pro functionality i believe whatever that means so now

SPEAKER_151: they have google deep mind google bard and google gemini yes well what what what's going on with the

SPEAKER_154: branding google tell me what i'm supposed to tell me explain to the audience the difference between

SPEAKER_156: those three things just so we can level something okay well deep mind and brain were two independent

SPEAKER_150: teams inside of google that have been merged into a single team that's now called deep mind deep mind

SPEAKER_158: deep mind is the remaining brand that's their ai team that's their ai team now and that's like saying

SPEAKER_39: that's equivalent of saying open ai it's equivalent of saying open ai yes correct and historically those two teams had different approaches and they came from different worlds deep mind was an acquisition

SPEAKER_37: that google did uh years ago that actually led to some of the fallout between um elon musk and some of the google founders yep and um you know some of the key folks that were involved in the drama

SPEAKER_39: with open ai this week ilia in particular was a deep mind person that was recruited out to come to open

SPEAKER_37: the eye so it's very kind of some important details those two teams now have created a new model a multi-modal model we've started talking about these we've used them and that model is called gemini and gemini comes in three different versions and those three different versions basically are um different size parameters which have different capabilities and pro which is the middle size model is now available for use inside of bart and on an api level it's going to become available on wednesday so if you're working with google cloud you you can use it uh as an api like so the same way you can build things on top of open ai and chat gpt and gpts um and then ultra which is the kind of the most

SPEAKER_166: advanced model they said will be available in early 2024 okay does that help yes we have the deep mind

SPEAKER_00: team that's the group inside of google the consumer product is called bard bard now bard is a way for them to say hey this isn't google search this is a different experimental product it's going to

SPEAKER_41: hallucinate click here to understand you shouldn't like base your medical decisions or financial

SPEAKER_02: decisions based on bard bars and experiment then bard uses an underlying technology called gemini gemini gemini comes in three flavors nano pro ultra ultra ultra yes so we now have one two three four five six

SPEAKER_00: brands this is the message to sundar we've talked about this you and i okay branding at google is

SPEAKER_04: challenging it's challenging you call it google bard a much better idea would have been to take the youtube approach and just call it bard and get the domain name bard.com and let people go to bard.com and have

SPEAKER_05: a completely unique verticalized experience without the google branding yeah and then nobody needs to know about deep mind nobody needs to know about gemini it's just bard yeah and bard is a new product

SPEAKER_39: from google yeah the end well microsoft nailed this too with the naming copilot which you know um we had a

SPEAKER_176: little private chat where we were sharing some names and ideas and we said yeah copilot is the way to go

SPEAKER_177: it's the simplest and nobody can own that so google copilot would have been a better name

SPEAKER_00: yeah um for this they just call it copilot but you know what google's strength is in the underlying technology their weakness is in branding and often in ux and the problem i have with bard right now is there's no app right there's no google bard app and the interface is just i don't want to say it's

SPEAKER_179: terrible but it's like the i'd say the ui is like a 5 of 10 and i feel like chat gpt is like an 8.5

SPEAKER_20: yeah well now can i say one thing to not to google's defense but like very similar in branding and

SPEAKER_150: naming we have open ai we have chat gpt and we have gpt 3.5 gpt gpt 4 gpt 4d so they've kind of

SPEAKER_00: taken the same flavor consumers but they didn't have a legacy brand of google right so there is no legacy so there they can they can start from a little bit of a cleaner position people know chat gpt they don't really know open ai they really don't care about the version numbers you just search for chat gpt this is why google you should just search for bard and then all they should say is bard lets you do this you can use bard for this you can use bard for that and then yeah when you go to the dev day they can talk about all the underpinnings but the consumer should just experience bard and bard should have a logo and it should be bard.com this is why google plus failed i don't know why

SPEAKER_02: google keeps doing the same mistake which is putting things as like a sub topic under the word google youtube is your biggest success it is an independent strong brand with its own domain name google plus got lost because it was plus.google.com it should have just been called plus.com and you went to plus.com and you had that experience yeah fascinating so here ends the branding lesson you have to get this right google please maybe a better name than bard too because like no one knows

SPEAKER_41: what a bard is i mean yes i agree i mean they should have just bought chat.com i would have

SPEAKER_51: just bought chat.com and you know who bought it darmesh uh i think bought it for a million dollars

SPEAKER_195: over at hubspot yes um and the huge mistake wow what a oh my god i mean for google that's like

SPEAKER_115: one millisecond of search can you imagine if they just had chat.com and it'd be like hey yeah if you want to chat go there or ai chat.com or ai.com yeah you know it's just there's so many different

SPEAKER_04: ways to do this folks but yeah the way google does it is always a mistake there's no branding person there and nest had a great branding team and then you screwed it by having the google team shoehorn it into and break it into google home there should be a five alarm fire actually you know what this is

SPEAKER_198: a sergey thing sergey find somebody who you trust who's your johnny ive i heard sergey's in there right

SPEAKER_70: in the code right yeah sergey needs a johnny one that pushed for the release apparently oh really

SPEAKER_199: let's go yeah yeah i like it i like sergey after dark he's a sir i like i like billionaires

SPEAKER_201: billionaires writing code we have chmas and we have sergey i love it samurai sergey yeah he's worth

SPEAKER_16: a hundred billion he's writing code i so much respect for samurai sergey oh i like samurai he's in the game oh yeah but this is a message somebody send this message to samurai sergey i know him jake

SPEAKER_34: okay samurai sergey please hire your johnny i find a branding person and stop taking google's innovations and wrapping them in bad ux this is a place to invest like literally just find

SPEAKER_205: 10 great designers put them in a room don't let anybody in your room i think johnny hive has

SPEAKER_00: johnny ive has a studio now he could just acquire it yes go get i mean go give johnny ive a billion dollars and have him come in for 10 hours a week he'll do a better job than the google team no

SPEAKER_207: offense to the google team yeah they're doing a bunch of work for like silicon valley companies like yes it's a design studio yeah design studio just by them okay easy breezy okay let's keep

SPEAKER_179: going here because i'm in bard right now and i asked bard okay is bar using deep minds gemini and

SPEAKER_39: said yes it is using it all right so so what i want to do here jacal is i want to give the ars technica

SPEAKER_37: guys a little bit of a shout out because they put together a really world-class um test bed and i'm going to show some of these but i just wanted to touch on this but they let's go they did a great comparison between original uh bard and the updated bard and chat gpt and so they have a lot of examples in here and you know i've kind of picked on a couple of them for our demo here so i wanted to give these guys a shout out uh they did a great job and so one of the ones that i found that was incredibly

SPEAKER_39: interesting uh from that example was uh and i think you'll you'll like this which is i gave it some text to summarize and it was a bunch of text that i just copied from an article what it was able what it was able to do was it was able to uh and this this was sort of the article here it was like an ai generated video of uh will smith eating spaghetti and um basically what bard was able to do uh was tell me you know what this like what this was about and was also able to link me to the original article and i think that's really powerful because um you know one of these things about attribution is going to be i think really important when with respect to understanding the ground truth of things and also perhaps monetization in the future so this is one of the enhanced powers of bard in that when you give it text from the internet it will um you know summarize it and then use google's vast knowledge base to

SPEAKER_221: kind of pull in the original source of that content so two things you're pointing out here one attribution

SPEAKER_00: this is something we've talked about who should get credit for this you took a cut and paste of the text from an article did not give bard the url it then found the url and gave proper credit to it so all of this like oh the llm we could never undo it we could never give attribution that is absolute bs bs ai has a very easy time doing attribution and so this entire concept that we don't know how it

SPEAKER_04: came up with the answer i call bs you can obviously figure that out and then so that's great for two reasons one it's fair and it'll probably get you around a lot of issues of a lot of lawsuits but number two monetization if this sends traffic to the original article the original article gets to get some money which is the very delicate balance google made with content creators hey if you index

SPEAKER_34: it we're sending you traffic if we send you traffic you can figure out how to monetize it on your site you could even use our ad network if you like or somebody else's so it's worth giving us the snippet just a little bit of the content to put in uh to give people a preview and so much so that they even

SPEAKER_04: did those one box where they kind of gave you a more specific section and that might give you the answer

SPEAKER_41: and content providers were like you know what i'll let you do it google because net net i get a third of my traffic from google or half of my traffic from google whatever the website's doing so i think

SPEAKER_00: those are two very good reasons and it plays to their strength they now know yeah because they have

SPEAKER_37: that corpus of the web crawl so very very good yes yeah and so um i i thought like really good example and you know uh touches on a bunch of things that will could really put google in a in a in a good position with uh content creators all over the internet um and and you know attribution which has driven much of the internet business for the last few years love it um okay so that was like sort

SPEAKER_231: of the first example i want to touch on with bard which i thought was really good if your landing

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SPEAKER_39: purchase of a website or domain another example which i thought was really powerful was its ability to

SPEAKER_37: go deeper in its responses and so um you know this is something you know talking about uh like an era that you know you were probably closer to this stuff back in the 2000 but like uh you know power pc versus intel processors this was a big debate when mac was switching over to um you know the intel these processors and so um it's able to just kind of dive into much more detail uh than before so if you ask this question in a previous bard it just wasn't as powerful and so um the you can basically what you can kind of glean from this is they've done a good job of just increasing the amount of material that's used in its training such that it's just as a deeper knowledge set it's not at surface level a lot of times before bard was a little bit surface level and that's called out there yeah fantastic

SPEAKER_39: yeah um yeah so like look there's a kind of a few of these improvements that they've done

SPEAKER_37: these are kind of the more interesting ones other ones are a little bit subtle like it's

SPEAKER_23: better at jokes and things like that i thought the thing that was most important was for me multimodal looked very very interesting and there was a couple of video demos maybe we could

SPEAKER_37: do a reaction to a video here so the video is is going to play here and um they're going to show some capabilities what they were showing here in this video for the folks listening is someone on a on a sticky note pad drawing pictures and then increasingly adding detail to the pictures and

SPEAKER_39: bard responding to it and so this is really interesting because what it made it seem like was bard was able to watch video and then in real time explain what it was seeing yes what was

SPEAKER_00: subsequently it was sports casting it was sports casting what was happening so when you drew it it was like oh it's a scribbly line then you drew a little more and it was like well that looks like a a bird oh because it's got a duck because it's got a bell it's a duck it's oh it's in the water

SPEAKER_41: because you just drew some water and oh it's a blue duck which really doesn't exist so it was like

SPEAKER_39: really giving a commentary in real time of what's happening yes and what and this is very powerful what there's some criticism around and controversy i'd say more criticism was that nothing is faked in this video from a sense of that like you know the answers are coming from bard but the interface to bard was not a real-time video so what they were doing was they were taking pictures they were giving them to bard and then bard was replying with the answers on the right hand side but the

SPEAKER_241: interaction wasn't real-time video got it so they faked a bit of the demo for dramatic effect what it

SPEAKER_00: really was was static images so they were just showing like essentially one post-it note at a

SPEAKER_248: time and it was hey what is this and they would come back and say this looks like this and what is

SPEAKER_250: this now and what is this now but the truth is they probably could build this in a weekend

SPEAKER_158: so sergey's probably coding it right now just to dunk on everybody and they'll release it in the next

SPEAKER_37: version i you know what i was going to say that is like the best way to kind of you know demystify everything is actually just have bard do it with video and and at the end of the day you know take screenshots of the video along the way and submit them to bard and have it answer the question you

SPEAKER_253: know i had something similar to this happen when i was watching han solo uh on a on a long distance

SPEAKER_00: flight i hit click the wrong version and the version i listened to was for people who are blind

SPEAKER_02: okay um and it described what was happening on the screen and it's like han solo jumps into a speeder this person jumps in with him they speed off into uh an alleyway they turn now they're being chased by three people and it was explaining there was a narrator describing what was happening on the screen and there was still the sound effects the dialogue and i was like i didn't know that existed in the world

SPEAKER_04: there is and there must be a technical name for it but there is a technical name for like a a commentary track that's describing what's happening on scene now you think about that we could take any video and if somebody was blind you could play a music video for them obviously they can listen to the song but you could have a narrator describe what's happening on the scene and the person could

SPEAKER_34: say give me more detail or less detail or pause the video tell me what's happening and then restart it every 30 seconds or whatever at every milestone so they could say okay wow i'm gonna pause here now britney spears comes onto the scene uh she's a ninja then she turns into this and you know there's

SPEAKER_04: enough time to explain you know something like everything everywhere all at once like some really dense movie with a lot of activity and just think about what that would do for somebody who is blind you can do this in real time on any screen for any video including live sports so you know you have a sportscaster and we're sportscasting here sportscasting could become could be done better

SPEAKER_16: by a computer by an ai so if bard does this for a warriors game you can say you know who i really like

SPEAKER_02: when george michaels did this or somebody who's passed away who was a sportscaster

David Friedberg: and you could have like some sportscaster describe what's happening in the game and clone their voice and

SPEAKER_37: man that might be really interesting huh yeah it's probably like i think it starts off in like let me be different languages versus that because like you know if you watch nfl and you get to watch a game that tony romo is sportscasting you get his knowledge of football and being a recent football player which i don't think the ai can can replicate just about that if you could have jimmy the greek

SPEAKER_04: right who is very famous uh you know monday night commentator that people loved and nobody remembers jimmy the greek but i do because i'm greek and it was like a big deal to have somebody called jimmy the greek but uh don't start calling me jason the greek i mean you can anyway um jay cal the greek you could bring him back and have him doing monday night football you could actually probably get all of his insights from previously and get his real-time reaction

SPEAKER_20: i mean if you built yeah if you took a model and fine-tuned it with all his previous commentary

SPEAKER_39: sure combined with video with a multi-modal yeah that's actually an interesting idea muhammad ali

SPEAKER_04: muhammad ali doing uh you know mma fighting or boxing and uh you know what about having steve jobs i mean listen when we talk about the recently dead i i want to just be clear here to family members etc who might be watching or you know friends of his i'm not making light here but sincerely like are we eventually going to have people who've moved on and passed on you know like do a keynote or send a message and they did that with tupac right he did a tour so i think this is a

SPEAKER_270: fan it's a very hard decision they did like a like a what do you call a gram thing a holographic

SPEAKER_04: i mean so if tupac can come back could you know steve jobs come back it might be too soon it might be too painful for people but eventually could steve jobs come back and release the next apple product

SPEAKER_51: uh you know it does so many ethical moral emotional things to think about there but we seem to be on

SPEAKER_04: the cusp of that um you know the other thing um i i was so impressed with um what they showed with gemini um the one i found really interesting is multimodal where they took a math test so maybe we

SPEAKER_41: could pull that video up and my team can do it too but they were uh explaining the reasoning of in math and physics all right so this is super interesting here you see they are taking a picture and understand

SPEAKER_274: of right and what the answers and explain the concepts that scored the test sunday scored the test identify some mistakes with problems one and three here let's take a look at three that's

SPEAKER_279: incredible teachers don't have to do teachers no longer have to score a test that's a big part of

SPEAKER_274: the job that the formula was correct but there was a mistake in calculating height we can ask gemini to explain that's powerful the height is 50 meters instead of six yeah not even okay so let's pause

SPEAKER_37: teachers so much not even teachers so much parents like i don't know if you ever have to kind of help with homework like sometimes you like really got to dig deep back and especially as you're getting

SPEAKER_00: into algebra and calculus like let's say here you know they're they're they've identified which question got wrong then they're looking at your solution as a student and finding and they're finding your mistake and then explaining to you how to fix it yeah this is an example of a the teacher doing

SPEAKER_02: their work when they're not in the classroom which is scoring test that's done then sometimes the teacher will circle the place where you made the mistake that's done the detail and then you have to get tutoring and you have to do corrective work to not get it right the wrong time those are three

SPEAKER_04: components of work humans do that has now been replaced by an ai so let's just think about teachers in general now teachers don't need to score tests the test would be scored in real time so you take your test up to the front of the class and they literally just put the test in front of a webcam yep you have a webcam facing down they just put it there move put it there move put it there move and it's sent to you what your score in real time what you got wrong they could send you to another room to go over the answers then have you come back and take three new versions of the three

SPEAKER_289: questions you got wrong and re-score your test so think what that does for education you know there

SPEAKER_04: were those really cool teachers who would let you retake a test yes because they wanted you to do the

SPEAKER_37: best possible you could be doing that in real time you you would learn more by fixing it and coming back then you're doing the real learning but it's not scalable if they have to do that for 15 20 30 students

SPEAKER_39: they can't this is a great aid for teachers i think it's even a greater aid for students because they can sit there while they're doing their practice their homework and you know when they get something

SPEAKER_37: wrong they can highlight you know why they got it wrong and explain to them how they should have done

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SPEAKER_41: i was blown away i think that they have leapfrogged uh chat gpt 4.0 in some modest ways um and obviously on the tests like there's a battery of tests i'll have you explain that in a second and pull up the list so people understand how that works they seem to have smashed chat gpt four smashed now who knows if chat gpt four is going to take this lying down or not i suspect they won't and maybe they'll drop like a 4.1 or a 4.5 to to smash bar back and smash behind back but this to

SPEAKER_179: me means google's in the game they're taking it seriously i mean i people are not going to believe

SPEAKER_282: this but i'm giving this an a plus because i'm going to pull up the benchmark okay plus wow i'm giving it a

SPEAKER_00: plus because i do think to surpass open ai on this many items even though i think the interface is still

SPEAKER_02: janky and needs work and they don't even have an app and they don't even have a brand and it's just

SPEAKER_16: confusing and you know if i were i'm rating this release as an a plus release let me say that wow product wise i think chat gpt is still a better product because their interface is an 8.5 of 10 and i give the google interface like a four or five i mean the google interface looks like it was not made by anybody it looks like they literally went with some default template you know like that that was

SPEAKER_156: built into like wordpress a decade right what are the differences you see between the bard interface

SPEAKER_04: and the chat gpt interface okay so um first and foremost majority of people and majority of work consumption and creation is now do it being done on smartphones so i always judge it on the app and

SPEAKER_299: work backwards okay there is no that's huge there's no app that's there's no so that means you lose of

SPEAKER_04: 10 points you immediately lose five so now you're at five yeah now we're going to just grade you on your web and your web based when you pull up bard in a web app when you pull it up on your desktop it looks cluttered confusing they just put it under the google taskbar you know with all the accouture mod it doesn't have its own look and feel so i'm minusing a point for that okay

SPEAKER_23: um and then i don't think the pagination and the formatting are as clean and crisp looking and the

SPEAKER_00: fonts and the topography i'll get i'll take a minus one on that too so i give them a three of ten actually now that i'm doing my interface three of ten but you know what i was kind of looking at it different but the go ahead and then i just think chat gpt if you use that app yeah it is so polished that it's delightful to use i've been using dolly now to write my blog to make my blog post headers and my illustrations on my last two blog posts look like a million bucks

SPEAKER_41: if i had hired an illustrator to do that it would have been five thousand dollars per illustration i think at a minimum one thousand dollars you couldn't do what i just did in dolly you can pull them up

SPEAKER_04: my team um in a minute but if you go to calacanis.substack.com i'm doing a weekly startup

SPEAKER_51: post and i changed my list to calic jason on startups or something um and just the two header images are gorgeous um so let's talk about scores here let's talk about scores and by the way

SPEAKER_04: just hire somebody to do the mobile interface samurai sergey i need you samurai sergey to take out the sword whoever's on the design team you just cut the team in half fire them and then you find an external team that's great at making apps and you ask them to make three versions you give them five million bucks and then you come back to your team and say why don't we why aren't we as good as this independent firm is this and then you make you pick the people from that firm and you give them an offer they can't refuse you go samurai sergey straightforward samurai sergey all right coach

SPEAKER_37: him samurai sergey let's do it um so you know a couple of things here jaco we don't have access to

SPEAKER_39: ultra yet right so what we're playing with in bard is pro so pro you can see here across the board uh scored lower than gpt4 okay and so even though in your experience you're feeling like it's

SPEAKER_319: explain to people what they're seeing on the left their mass big bridge hard what what what is this

SPEAKER_37: i know what it is basically explain to everybody yeah yeah i mean so there's uh i think there's eight eight critical benchmarks that people use to score different models and what you can see here in this chart uh that i have pulled up is gemini ultra gemini pro versus gpt four three five palm two claw two inflection grok one and llama and so these are kind of all the major uh llms that are out there right now um and it's you know changing rapidly and what we see here is gemini ultra on almost all benchmarks uh scored higher than gpt4 can you give us an example of but one of these benchmarks and what

SPEAKER_20: it is actually testing um i mean the the simplest one which is the one we were just looking at is gsm

SPEAKER_37: 8k which is grade school math right and so that's the second one in this chart that i'm looking at you can see that gpt4 gets 92 of the questions right and uh gemini ultra gets 94.4 now so this is

SPEAKER_241: to be clear they took grade school math and they have a battery of questions like a standardized test so

SPEAKER_00: this is kind of like the sats or i forgot what we called them in new york i think they were called your regions but these are your testing these are your tests everybody takes the same test and it's

SPEAKER_331: basically not you can't cheat on it essentially well so that's a very good question you asked

SPEAKER_37: you are not allowed to include the test in your training material because if you include the test in training material you'll probably get 100 so the the researchers and people that are doing this have to hold to to that standard and say you cannot include any of the questions from any of these

Chamath Palihapitiya: different benchmarks inside the training material and i like this mmlu multiple choice questions in 57

SPEAKER_41: subjects professional and academic correct um and this was done by some university or some uh researchers correct and then they put this out in the world and if we look at that one gemini ultra 90 on this multiple choice test gemini pro 79 okay great chat gpt 87 so gemini was you know whatever it is a couple

SPEAKER_175: of gemini was a a student and gpt4 was a b plus student got it but what's interesting about this is

SPEAKER_41: we go down grok one is at 73 already and that's under six month old claude's been at it for a while they're at 78 so they're not applying themselves well enough um and then llama two which is uh zuckerberg's one that's an open source am i correct yes correct is that 68 and so we're seeing

SPEAKER_342: open source far behind the class be interesting to see if they catch up well but the the thing can

SPEAKER_39: i just comment on that the idea with llama two is it's not meant to be a model you use out of the box it's meant to be a model you take and you find too and we don't have it in this example but i'd be

SPEAKER_37: willing to guess there's a llama 2 fine tune that can score higher than both gpt4 and gemini ultra on

SPEAKER_41: mmlu which is why isn't the falcon project on here i guess they just it's not doing as well or they

SPEAKER_37: didn't think of putting it on here i wonder um i don't know for sure but my guess is it's not scoring

SPEAKER_345: as high as any of these other projects right now yeah okay uh so yeah great uh so this is amazing we

SPEAKER_41: what you find here is chat gpt4 has not run away has not i think what we've learned now is as an

SPEAKER_241: organization open ai has an achilles seal right the franken corporate structure the frank structure also um there are two other criteria there's the core power of the language model which we're seeing here in these tests and chat gpt and open ai can be beat that's what we've determined with this correct

SPEAKER_37: they're beautiful i think that was the biggest thing last week which is folks got comfortable that um you know what chat gpt had wasn't you know magic or it wasn't so far of a technological lead that

SPEAKER_39: it couldn't be caught up and the fact that someone else got there means other people can get there as

SPEAKER_41: well which means we're heading towards commodity um which you have always said that's always been your position and what's very interesting about this is if you look at this chart gpt4 was trouncing the

SPEAKER_04: other competitors so when you compare claude to chat gpt4 um uh and i'm sorry gpt4 yet claude or to llama or to palm it really did feel insurmountable you know there are scores here 92 to 80

SPEAKER_16: you know um 92 to 88 52 to 34 i mean these were big leads yes and now so there's that piece then

SPEAKER_04: there's the piece of user interface and then there's a piece of proprietary data and so if we were to look at those chat gpt4 and open ai team they have some i don't know who the web designers are on there

SPEAKER_34: somebody tip us off of who's designing the app for open ai but that's the person samurai sergey's gotta poach they gotta get in there and steal the design team from open ai and just double their salaries and double their options and get them on the team or find somebody who can so they've got a massive lead there but that's an easy one to close and then they've also the question is who's got the lead on

SPEAKER_00: data so i need you to answer that question for me because the language models are at parity the interfaces can be at parity but the data that doesn't seem like it can be parity so explain well so i

SPEAKER_39: think there's this answer comes in two parts for me and it's actually one of the parts come from your

SPEAKER_37: recent interview with david luon from adept and you did a great job i want to give you credit as one

SPEAKER_39: of my favorite twist um episodes and david shared just a little bit of kind of nuggets along the way as you were interviewing him and one of the nuggets that he shared was in terms of the training material it wasn't all public information they went and licensed information yes and one of the things that might have happened and this is like speculation but you know i think we can we see it sounds

SPEAKER_37: reasonable which is prior to the explosion of you know last november 30th of chat gpt and then early next year which had gpt4 or gpt4 um if you were some organization and this open um non-profit shows up and said hey we want to license some material for you you'd probably like yeah sure you want to pay us some money you're doing some kind of non-profit research great um they may and you know they have

SPEAKER_39: a contract for it it's all good i think you know that's an interesting thing in terms of what they were probably able to do in a past life and what we're seeing now is in over the last even the

SPEAKER_37: weekend and last week some people were complaining about gp gpt4's um capabilities are coming down and that may be some of that material may be having to come out of the training material they may be updating their models we'll talk about that in one of these demos that are coming up and so um i think

SPEAKER_39: between open ai being at this for a long time and their approach and then google with just their vast access to information you know being kind of the company that organized the world's information they both had this interesting approach what i will say and i i tweeted this yesterday i'm saying right now gpt35 has been commoditized so um yeah and we're gonna do a demo for um coming up next and um it's using a specific model we'll talk about but i'm willing i just want to say here gpt35

SPEAKER_282: level model has been commoditized there's nothing special about them wow okay this is big news folks

SPEAKER_41: and this is great news for the overall ecosystem correct now startups are not beholden to open ai when the apis become more rich and the costs go down this is all going to be commoditized in the same way storage has this is a big question if you paid a lot of money to invest in open ai by the secondary shares and listen i'm not i'm not trying to screw up anybody's deals here but if you invested in a large language model at a very large dollar amount i'm concerned about your

SPEAKER_04: investment now you have downside protection because you know even if you invested in something at 10 billion to 20 billion you have the preference stack so don't cry for any of these folks they knew that going in but the fact is a large language model on the internet is worth a billion dollars if it's one

SPEAKER_16: of the top five it's not worth a hundred billion am i correct for that statement you think i think you're

SPEAKER_04: great i i think you're right right but i think but literally last year you would value a large language model at 50 billion 25 billion 100 billion because there were there are only two or three really

SPEAKER_16: good ones yes now there's going to be 50 good ones um probably what do you think and there'll be 50 worth a billion and none of them will you won't even be able to tell the difference between them for nine out of ten searches am i correct i don't think we're going to be able to tell the difference

SPEAKER_130: and that's maybe it's a good jump off point jacal to the to the next thing okay here we go more demos

Chamath Palihapitiya: coming do we need to score to anything uh you didn't give your score for uh this release by google so in

SPEAKER_41: totality i gave it an a plus because samurai sergey uh just proved he just commoditized the market

SPEAKER_186: yeah deep mind commoditized the market i'm i'm only going to give it a b plus until we get api access

SPEAKER_37: to um you know pro which is coming on wednesday and then when we and i want to also reserve until we

SPEAKER_39: get to actually play with ultra because we we haven't had a chance and so uh but i do think they have an it's this is like the example you gave of you get to come back and get your score updated

SPEAKER_37: so either they release like an updated video of gemini ultra kind of doing the it all like as i showed in that video or they just release it to us developers and a limited sense and you can move

SPEAKER_134: your way to an a plus all right and that david luon episode is 1855 if you're looking for it folks

SPEAKER_39: it'll be linked in the show notes yeah okay okay so next uh we're gonna actually i'm gonna just jump around in our notes to this because it's just it's a natural flow and then i'll come back to the next thing i want to show you so next this weekend the team at mistral released another new model and it's called the eight by seven b and you can you can play with this model at poe so one of the things that um you know if you're a subscriber to poe you're able to pick which model you want

SPEAKER_37: to chat with and they have like all kinds of models there you could they have api access to gpt4 they have uh claude and so it's sort of you don't need to have an api key they abstract that

SPEAKER_04: they use their api keys you pay them and then they figure it out yeah i'm gonna go get a subscription to poe because i really and poe is by quora quora which is um adam d'angelo yes uh who would be great to have but we should have a guest we should do like a tuesday with a guest you and adam so yeah let's do it let's do adam on a tuesday and we'll have a back-to-back but it'd be great to just go through adam and his thinking but he's also the one on the board of open ai and at the center of all that

SPEAKER_51: nexus of um yeah chaos the last couple weeks not that he caused the chaos but he was he was he was there in the room where it happened was happening and he was there he was there yes he was at chaos

SPEAKER_39: all right so why this model is really interesting and this is the when when i saw this model and i got to play with it um it basically you know led me to the conclusion which i said 3.5 has been totally um uh commoditized now so this is what's called a mixture of experts models so this is eight seven billion models working together um and why this is really interesting is in a few ways one when the models are smaller the resources that you need to run them become much um easier to to obtain and the resources required to train them become much easier to obtain and so generally a rule of thumb that you can use is if you look at a model size and if it says 7 billion you need 70 billion tokens to roughly train it 10x the amount of parameters to train it um and so when you get these really large models that are 70 billion 270 billion you need trillions and trillions of tokens which then leads to you need very very specific compute clusters that only a few people in the world have when you have the smaller models you can use much more kind of readily available compute to to train these things and what mistral released with this model is a mixture of experts and this is generally considered how um open ai is structured it's i think you know they may have changed it recently but before people were saying it's like six twenty billion models working together um so they did eight seven billion models and what they were able to show is eight seven billion models can outperform llama 270b they can outperform 170 billion parameter model okay and um and that you know as we saw on the previous one the llama 270b was lower in score but it's designed to be fine-tuned and if you fine-tune it you could

SPEAKER_37: probably get it up to you know matching all the other um better models and now that you can take

SPEAKER_39: a smaller model which is much more uh realistic for smaller companies to run and fine-tune um you know

SPEAKER_37: the 3.5 era is commoditized and so you can play with it here and i gave it again say tell me about the founding of atari and it was able to tell me you know who founded it and what went on and you know you you can run it through the benchmark but the key thing here talking about you know poe and and this mistral model is we've you know the open source community combined with mistral has found a way to

SPEAKER_39: take on these large models and just one year ago gpt 3.5 chat gpt was announced now we have an open source model that anyone could take and fine-tune and run without having ridiculous infrastructure and um you have the equivalent of what chat gpt was a year ago so i'll pause there and let you react to

SPEAKER_393: that and ask me questions yeah i mean here we are i just subscribed to poe i paid 199 dollars for the year yes 200 bucks while we were talking i was like well that's the that's a decent heart move well i mean

SPEAKER_119: it's the cheapest i'm going to spend and i want to be up to date on all the models so the fact that they

SPEAKER_41: have abstracted it so let me just open up the conversation to poe generally speaking yeah i've been looking for this because like this show kind of helps you level up i feel like letting people

SPEAKER_121: see everything is great and then they also have bots and they let you create bots and stuff like

SPEAKER_39: that correct yeah so that's kind of what you're that was a little bit of the tension that was there with gpt's got launched right because they had just launched these bots and then gpt's got launched

SPEAKER_37: like literally a few weeks later so that was part of the speculated tension maybe we can ask adam

SPEAKER_41: about it directly well i mean also no conflict no interest right we always say that here in silicon valley so listen you're on board of this thing who knows who's an investor maybe you know sam has shares in quora maybe quora's got a licensing deal with open ai and they're sending a billion dollars back and forth who knows uh you know i think core has got this incredible uh data set i think what core should do is come up with a revenue model for people like me who are super

SPEAKER_04: answers in the system like i did a thing with quora twice where they had me do a like live q a like an ama and i just took 25 questions and it really builds their corpus up with an expert yes so you know i did and it grew my following on core now i never figured out how quora would work for me how it would help me i'm sure people see my answer there maybe i get a little bit of play but i know that people who are lawyers accountants real estate people they love answering questions there and pulling bullet

SPEAKER_34: points on it because it makes them famous right so if you're not famous you can become a famous real estate broker in new york city by sharing your knowledge right and being number one there and then people call you they know your name they see it you can send your profile to people but what if

SPEAKER_41: you know every time my answers were used in uh an lm i got a licensing fee so as the number one angel investor early stage investor and you as the number one you know ai developer and susie as the number one you know tech lawyer and john as the number one real estate agent every time they got their licensing

SPEAKER_00: fiat po they distributed to us as being you know x number of answers in the corpus x percent of real

SPEAKER_41: estate or whatever ten thousand dollars a year the spotify for everyone else the spotify for everybody

SPEAKER_00: else spotify for knowledge right where is that model and i i think that adam could do that where he just said folks hey we know we ver here's the verified list so if you move to verified

SPEAKER_02: on quora and we know your credentials we have your driver's license or passport we know it's really a human you're not stealing the answers and you've done over 100 answers and you've been on the system more than two years you get into the licensing pool and if you want to be in the licensing pool you gotta be an expert and get this much like just take that and then for all time and then they could be

SPEAKER_04: telling me hey if you do 100 questions we'll pay you in advance yeah these are 100 questions we want to have in the corpus if you answer these 100 we'll give you 100 each we'll give you 10 grand and then that'll be against your earnings in the future there's a really interesting model there that

SPEAKER_39: could work yeah i mean i love it i think you know what you talked about is sort of what sam hinted at with gpts yes and you know we demoed them as soon as they came out and i think um you know the the

SPEAKER_37: enhanced ability of of uh quora slash poll is that they're not limited to offer it with just the

SPEAKER_39: open ai model because you can mix and match and you can have models that are lower cost to run that maybe the monetization is better on because they don't have when you know it's mistral they

SPEAKER_37: don't have to pay as much money to open ai for using chat gpt especially gpt4 which is quite

SPEAKER_04: expensive so okay so to recap what we just saw yeah the high order point here is there is a new model

SPEAKER_41: that has commoditized the 3.5 level correct and it's essentially now free to use these

SPEAKER_20: yes you can run it on pretty standard uh compute and um to find pretty standard compute a macbook

SPEAKER_39: air m2 i i'm saying like for a service right like so for develop like you know if you want to run like

SPEAKER_74: a service you're going to run it in the cloud you don't need to go and procure a farm of h100s to run

SPEAKER_419: it got so you can run this with just standard cpus you know you should use you could you can but you

SPEAKER_20: should use gpus but you don't have to buy the latest and greatest um from nvidia that has so when

SPEAKER_39: the models get bigger jcal you definitely need to use the bigger chips because they have a huge memory um footprint that's required to run them and we're going to show that in the next demo when you're trying to run these things so when they're really really big you have to have a memory interconnect amongst these chips and they have to run in like racks and even you know more even beyond

SPEAKER_41: chunks of information correct time to process and it just can't be done without yeah uh it's not going to read that from a hard drive that'd be far too slow it needs to have really high speed memory what do they call the memory now uh there's a specific name for the memory chips in inside of these gpus

SPEAKER_39: just like vram like you know kind of yeah for that they use for inside gpus but the idea is um that when you get these large frontier models like you know 100 billion 200 billion 300 billion parameters in size they are hundreds of gigabytes even approaching um you know like a terabyte well a terabyte of memory as you remember even from your days working in the computer lab a single computer can only support so much memory so what you have to do is have multiple machines stitch them together have them working amongst each other and very close so you can support it when the models become smaller they can all fit on a single machine that really lowers the type of um you know hardware that you have to go after for to running these things got it awesome okay let's continue okay and so uh yeah last thing just on poe uh these are the different models that you can access if you're using uh poe today you can

SPEAKER_37: use gpt4 playground cloud instant dolly you know mistral when i was just showing you there claude 2 with 100k

SPEAKER_282: um yeah so all the different models so it's really really great to to leverage if you want to try the different models and get on the subscription tier 200 bucks a year great awesome um so i guess we gotta

SPEAKER_39: grade that yes feels like a b plus i don't know what do you feel well i'm gonna grade two different things i'm gonna grade mistral 7b i'm gonna grade mistral 7b as an a plus okay because it will like i said commoditize the 3.5 okay yeah i'm gonna give it an a for that if that's how we're facing it okay and then poe i'm gonna give poe um you know it kind of suffers a little bit of ui wonkiness in the same way it's like very engineer kind of like tech heavy so it is i think it's a great tool it's quite powerful it has lots of different ways for you to try all the different models all in the same place and so i think from a ui perspective i kind of knock it straight down to probably a b but i think the fact that they just make it all available all the different models they have all the partnerships done some they run locally some they run with other you know startups in the ecosystem so i think

SPEAKER_04: it's like a b right now but if they continue yeah yeah i give i give i give poe a b um but i will give them credit that they do have like a desktop app now and they have mobile mobile apps yeah so i think

SPEAKER_331: that they i think adam understands consumers pretty well now you know when you do monetization model they

SPEAKER_186: have a good monetization model right that you know people can participate in yeah uh explain the the

SPEAKER_39: model of uh bots and what they're doing yeah so the different bots can exist like either as core um language models or you can take one and you can fine tune it so you can create the jake the thing that you were talking about so you can create the jcal bot that is trained on your books maybe all the episodes and it's it's uh you know it's been fine tuned and you can put it up there and then people can

SPEAKER_40: use it um and you know basically you can monetize it that way um you'll like this one let me share

SPEAKER_134: this i'm going to share my screen i'm i may have to go b minus now i may i may have to go to a c

SPEAKER_41: because of this hold on oh okay that's a joke but i just asked their photo underscore create e which is one of their bots operated by angel a chen it's got 12 000 followers or angela chan yeah uh 197 just i said hey it's she asked uh hey can i create images with your prompt i said make me a handsome version of jason galacanis yeah and it came out with this chubby version of me as like i don't

SPEAKER_04: know like some dude in san diego who's you know going to get sushi um okay this is this is good because we

SPEAKER_37: have we have a kind of an updated version of this and let me just share the monetization model here

SPEAKER_22: uh oh i can't uh you're gonna have to kill the shares i can share i'm gonna ask him to make him

SPEAKER_34: thinner let's see okay let's see what it does generating for i mean it is i will say it's pretty

SPEAKER_04: fast oh that is not good that's not good i said make him thinner and it made a pig horse okay suit make oh because i maybe because uh i said make he dinner i don't know yeah all right so this one is clearly hallucinating uh but i'm still going with poe as a b and i'm going to do it let's do a deep

SPEAKER_452: dive into poe when we have uh yeah for sure so let's do it awesome on the call all right and just

SPEAKER_37: on monetization i want to close it up it's up to twenty dollars per user that subscribes and so if you put your model in here you can make twenty dollars a user you have a thousand subscribers you're going to get twenty thousand dollars a month okay here we go yeah all right okay this one is really interesting it's been going around the internet i'm going to see your reaction we're going to get like a jcal reacts moment here here we go live all right and let me just let me just live and direct okay so one of the things that i've been seeing um kind of in the last couple of weeks like really kind of uptick in is uh folks creating these influencers and uh yes and so okay so this you know it's

SPEAKER_39: a good lead up here because what i did was i created a collab workspace this is a google product um it's it's it's sort of um like a different version of replit but it's all exactly it's an ide that has access to compute and what i did um i was able to basically get a model in this case the model

SPEAKER_37: um that i am using is called uh juggernaut excel so this is what would be called like a fine tune of um of stable diffusion right sdxl stable diffusion excel so it's a fine tune and the fine tune's been

SPEAKER_39: um really kind of focused on making people and um yes and so uh i oops let me go back here and um and what i did was i used this framework called focus and basically focus lets you um run these models locally you can see here um in this little interface uh when you when you kick this off a model gets uh pulled in that model is about six gigs in size you see that right here 6.62 gigabytes yep

SPEAKER_37: and you can see its uh utilization how much gpu ram it's using system ram it's using and whatnot

SPEAKER_39: on the right hand side here and so uh now what i have is i have a um uh my own model running uh that i downloaded on your own hardware on my own well yeah hardware that's in the cloud right but in this case it's in google's cloud nothing too spectacular like it's i don't have to

SPEAKER_82: pick like h100 or anything like that and so let's say a blonde uh woman um standing in front of the eiffel tower right this can get dangerous i can see it's getting dangerous quick yeah we might have

SPEAKER_304: to edit this out if it goes wrong on us but it should be fine let's be careful folks this could go

SPEAKER_419: i mean no this is true though when you do dolly it has a lot of rules you can't do a regular person you

SPEAKER_34: can't do nudity you can't get too risque but i do see people releasing ai you know pinups let's just

SPEAKER_16: say or even more graphic um and people are doing this i see a lot of women doing it online like it's

SPEAKER_34: a joke like professional women are like trying to make linkedin photos and then it comes back with something that looks like they're a runway model and they're like yeah not exactly appropriate so here is a stunningly beautiful almost impossibly perfect well it's still it's still working it's still working

SPEAKER_16: it's not but even at halfway mark it's like scarlett johansson in a very revealing dress nightgown i'm trying to figure out where it's going with this the left hand side's a little bit

SPEAKER_22: more uh pg but like i think they're both okay that's just a really nice dress i mean listen these

SPEAKER_41: are not you wouldn't use these these would be fine if you were going out for a night on the town these yeah you know going to the club but you wouldn't this is not an outfit you would wear in a professional

SPEAKER_207: setting yeah but if you're an influencer you might wear something like this but an influencer would

SPEAKER_41: certainly wear something like this this would be the average instagram influencer's photo and so here you go so like you know we just did i mean that's super impressive and you i guess my question is to you uncanny valley if you were scrolling yes not stopping and pinching and zooming and like doing like a detailed thing but if you were swiping through instagram would you swipe past this and think it was a

SPEAKER_39: real person with a filter yeah and um i i i think you would i think you would see this and think it's a real person now we have one more demo after this i want to do but let me show what you can do here so i downloaded that picture and um uh let's let's just change it let's say in front of eiffel tower let's pick something else let's say how about say i don't know beach or new york city yeah doing yoga

SPEAKER_89: pose uh on the beach right okay great well let's get now here we go this could get a little risky folks so try to keep it i hope it keeps it pg and so basically what i've done now is i've said i want

SPEAKER_20: to say you know same thing i'm going to give it an image input so it's the model is going to use this

SPEAKER_37: this person and i've obviously changed it doing a yoga pose um you know on the beach wearing yoga clothing so like hopefully all that comes true for us amazing so so the first one you did of an

SPEAKER_289: influencer it picked a caucasian blonde whatever and that was its own ideas we didn't tell it that

SPEAKER_04: correct um and now you're using that as the foundational because that's the influencer that i want to have right and so here it goes here's somebody in a yoga pose which is uh on a beach and

SPEAKER_39: uh yeah it looks reasonable and yeah it should be it should be a version of her um the first one that we created and um and i want you to think about this jason in terms of like you know the world of

SPEAKER_37: instagram and you know everything that we've seen in our um world and like like the simplicity by which like these things can be um created now and uh what is your reaction to this and what does this mean to

SPEAKER_04: content so a person's been around so here's what i would say um if you are a yoga brand let's say in

SPEAKER_16: your first year and so you're you know lululemon and it's a startup to you know 20 years ago to do

SPEAKER_04: these images for your catalog would be a 20 000 photo shoot plus the price plus right well yeah no i'm saying 20 000 all in you you would you would book a model you would need a hair stylist hair and

SPEAKER_41: makeup you need a photographer a photographer's assistant i'm just giving you like a baseline and let's say you probably need three models because you were doing a catalog or whatever and you need a wardrobe hair and makeup pull permits security photographer photographer's assistant uh and you know photographer's assistant would handle lighting and then you have to develop the film etc so it'd be a 20 000 uh process and oh you'd also need a location scout to find the place and you have to pull a permit to take pictures there if you were going to have lighting or typically if you're putting a tripod or lighting down that's when you need to get a permit if you're just filming and you know it's for you personally you're probably not going to have an issue so this is why people use like a canon 5d or like you know like those kind of handheld ones because if anybody comes and there's those things can do low light everything you're just like yeah no no it's your personal use we're just yeah influencer it's not a whole yeah now when influencers came out this

SPEAKER_34: drop down to let's say 500 to a thousand dollars for a suit people would have their own get their own wardrobe so let's just call it a thousand dollars for the day the instead of paying a thousand dollars a day for the model the model would do it for free for credit uh to put it on their instagram or maybe give them a hundred dollar per diem so it went down 95 now you've gone down a hundred percent you now are at freight and so the question is if you're a lululemon in year one or the competitor to that you can make an unlimited brand on shopify up and coming brand on shop you literally don't need models and you could be doing your pictures based on an editorial calendar and if f1 was happening in vegas you could make these people doing yoga you know in front of uh you know one of those f1 cars or you could have the same models you know at fashion week in milan or new york you could have them at art basil so now you're traveling around the world with a cohort of models you own a hundred percent of their identity and their rights and it takes one person an hour a day to do this it is insane this is saving millions of dollars in marketing collateral

SPEAKER_115: so this is called marketing collateral in the business okay and this is the end of needing to

SPEAKER_41: hire models um and so if you did hire a model you'd be hiring them because they were um unique to the brand so suki waterhouse um i met her one time at a party in la uh quite charming and she's like an influencer musician etc you're you're getting a brand endorsement from that person because she's hip and she's got this incredible fan base etc yeah kim kardashian fan base traffic but for the next tier

SPEAKER_04: you can't afford to pay them 500k or 50k whatever they get you know i think it's probably 50k to 500k per engagement you're not people aren't going to pay that and so or what if kim made a model that was

SPEAKER_37: of her and made it available to download for use like cameos yeah yeah i think that if it was for

SPEAKER_04: non-commercial use it'd be fine and then the second you go into commercial you got to pay a little bit more so i think cameo came up with this i saw somebody was using russ uh the guy who plays russ

SPEAKER_34: hammerman or whatever that guy's name is the trace comma guy with the yeah yeah yeah that guy was doing a bunch of stuff for acquired.com uh and he was doing it for andrew gazdeki and he would make it like really funny andrew gazdeki and he would do it in the russ hammerman voice and it was hilarious and he would i think like he could use that to promote his company and instead of paying 50 a cameo you pay 500 or something so i was talking to steve from cameo and like they just basically came up with a tier for sort of commercial work and i think you can use it for one year so just you know a set of rights like kim kardashian could let you do it on your site and it's non-commercial and it's a hundred dollars an image or if you want to use a commercial it's a thousand dollars an

SPEAKER_108: image and somebody just has to approve it yeah so yeah there could be something like that it can wouldn't do it but other people would other words yeah okay like grimes is doing grimes is doing

SPEAKER_41: that for you can make music yeah and that actually what you would do is a a royalty share now royalties don't exist for e-commerce but you could say if you want to use this on shopify shopify will make an api

SPEAKER_511: anything that sells someone should do a shopify app for this that's a good idea so do it as a shopify

SPEAKER_41: apps shout out toby fan of the pod we have toby set that up and then let's say you put yourself let's say they put kim kardashian or suki waterhouse and they say i approve me being in these 50 outfits and that's 50 of 250 skews anybody who sees her in the outfit gets tracked and she gets 10 of the sale

SPEAKER_198: yeah like yeah like a super affiliate okay okay uh so letter grade one more one more given this uh man i i gotta give it an a minus i think it needs a little more refinement but it's almost

SPEAKER_210: technical because i had to load a model in collab and all that but this needs to be an app yeah this

SPEAKER_198: was an app format i give it an a plus because yeah but i just actually if it was an app format i give it an a in this format i give it either a b plus or an a minus i'll give it a b plus i don't want to go too crazy with my letter grade i give it a b plus because i don't it doesn't cause it doesn't cross

SPEAKER_34: the uncanny valley enough for me and it doesn't do video yet these need to do short videos okay so if i'm going to reserve a grade point for app and a grade well some grade i'm going to give it a name

SPEAKER_37: a minus because the next product will wrap up quickly here because we're a bit over

SPEAKER_39: this is um so this is a new tool called i like that picture of me i look okay and that's like medium fat jcal magnifique and what it can do is you you drop an imager and it's an upscaler and it will and see what it's doing here it's kind of gave me five o'clock shadow it gave you five o'clock shadow and like an imp look at it improved your eyebrows and hair yeah wait which

SPEAKER_150: version is me this is the one with that that's me okay that's you and this is like a little bit older

SPEAKER_39: oh it meant older older because that's what i was i was trying to go for because these are younger pictures right yeah it gave me a little turkey neck so this is this photo of yourself got it

SPEAKER_20: and then you need to be older made you older gave you a bit of a thing and like it cleaned up the photo like it made the hair look a little bit more realistic it fixed your suit yeah that's me at 65

SPEAKER_528: yeah maybe yeah fix your shirt yeah okay so then i took another one of you and i said uh this is a

SPEAKER_393: quite young photo of you said yeah this is me at 30 i'm about 30 years old there yeah make an older

SPEAKER_00: jay cow wow i look so distinguished when i'm thin right look at that wow i look like pierce brosnan a little pierce brosnan going on there that's from two actually it's from 2009 it's a 15 year old photo

SPEAKER_319: yeah and uh did you tell it how many years you want to hit i just said older i think the prompt was older

SPEAKER_04: yeah and you know and so yeah i mean it gives me my it actually doesn't it looks like the waypoint between now and 65 so i'm 53 now that was uh it was 14 years ago so that was i was 40 or something

SPEAKER_16: yeah maybe it's 39 in that photo so 39 to now yeah it's probably right in between not bad okay

SPEAKER_39: then for for the influencers we were making and i'll just do this quickly here you know we were saying there's a little bit of uncanny valley but if you put it over them you see here it just gives them a

SPEAKER_20: little bit more realism wrinkles and uh got it so this is the opposite of a touch up this is a touchdown

SPEAKER_70: touchdown to make them upscaled and more realistic wow oh so if you put these two things together it's

SPEAKER_540: a plus yes this looks like a real yoga mom yes this looks like a 40 year old yoga mom from you know

SPEAKER_34: watch the bicep watch the bicep yeah yeah it added instead of it all being perfectly smooth yes you know i like you know what i like about this i have three daughters i like not putting a standard out there that's absurd and that's what this ai is doing is putting out an absurd standard none of us can

SPEAKER_04: sort of ever achieve um and i like this um uh you know instead i like the touchdown i think touchdown

SPEAKER_02: for the win stop touching everybody up let's go touch that yes let's let's own it i like being

SPEAKER_187: i like moving into my harrison ford years i'm hoping my clint eastwood years i hope i look grizzled and you know chiseled grizzled and chiseled grizzled and chiseled is what i'm going for and

SPEAKER_41: i've been i've been doing my two i'm starting my two mile run program trying to see if i can lower my two mile time okay and then just you know i got my i got my uh 20 pound waist over there on the floor and i just that's it yeah i just hit them once in a while all right this has been amazing uh so for

SPEAKER_02: the touch down product i'm going to give that a b plus yes given the other thing a b plus you put

SPEAKER_121: them together i give them an a yes but i'm going b plus on both i think they're both fascinating i think

SPEAKER_37: it's good i think they've done a nice job like making the photos look more realistic which is not the touch up and what we see in the instagram filters it's like it's an upscale but making

SPEAKER_39: them more realistic and i think it really changes the game for e-commerce entrepreneurs or folks that want to you know sell products and want to have you know marketing material around it what was

SPEAKER_41: the term you used you called it marketing marketing collateral marketing collateral so you know marketing collateral is let's say you had that picture from the beach yoga session and you had the three models you know okay we can use this when we go to um a trade show and we put that as the backdrop oh on our website it's the marquee image just really quickly um uh if we could pull up my sub stacks i'll just show you what i did here so go to the top there so this is jason calacanis on uh startups and i said this is the greatest moment in time to start a company the greatest moment in time to start a company

SPEAKER_04: question mark right now and i explain why and i gave it a prompt that i wanted something that would be the roaring 20s so combine 1920s with a futuristic world and we'll call it the roaring ai 20s and i said add robots add flying cars yada yada and then put uh the roaring 20s at top and it did s the roaring

SPEAKER_51: 20s like it still has text and then i said put somewhere on this picture start a company so you see

SPEAKER_34: at that store it says start a company now what's interesting is um this took me five minutes because at the bottom of my story i just uploaded a gallery of all the other versions because i thought it would be funny so here's the roaring 20s this is a cyberpunk version start a company now it's spelling things wrong this one is weird here's another one that is a bit more like art deco next one um and i did all

SPEAKER_04: this with dolly and this one was kind of ugly uh this one was blade runnerish with a bunch of drones and

SPEAKER_41: neon this one was also uh cyberpunk neon um so anyway these illustrations and then if you go back to my previous um substack i did the productivity one and so now in this one i did a prompt you know i wanted a bulldog in it a cup of coffee and and you know a table and so now i have like a concept here i make these marquee images for my blog posts and i think it makes them very appealing for people and

SPEAKER_563: i don't need to rely on somebody to make i used to go find a gift that i like and throw a gift in there and uh or make a gift from a movie so i go find a movie i like i download the video clip

SPEAKER_70: the greatest time ever to be an entrepreneur all the tools that just right at your fingertips sit

SPEAKER_419: there and just do it all which is a good time as any for me to just give a final plug here definitive.io

SPEAKER_273: if you need work done by a genius uh that genius would be uh my friend uh cindy mantra and our whole

SPEAKER_04: team the whole team okay whatever the team works for you if you go to if only i started.com you will see a video of me talking about um you know starting a company and i my team just got the domain name if

SPEAKER_34: only i started.com and so i just made a a 15 minute video and uh this is about founder university go watch the video go to founder.university we're starting this we give people 25k checks two or three person teams we accept 200 teams we give the 25 25k check to about 30 of them 40 of them per cohort so i put about a half million dollars to work a million dollars to work every quarter so about great my budget for this is about two million a year two million a year yeah okay two million a year is what i'd like to do at scale um that is obviously uh 80 companies 25k each so i'd like to or 100 companies 25k each would be 2.5 i would like to actually get this to 200 companies 2.5 million no yeah 200 companies 5 million a year so that's what i'm working towards

SPEAKER_574: i want to put five million dollars a year to work uh in the fund you're an lp i'm an lp yes in 25k

SPEAKER_34: checks we take 2.5 percent of the company it's the first check into the company helps you get organized helps you get your lawyer and so just let us pick up the first 25k uh of your expenses and then you've got what your excuse is like nothing you know nothing

SPEAKER_41: and if the company shuts down and it doesn't work out no harm no foul we lose 25k you lose six months of your time if it does work out all we ask is that we get to invest in the next two rounds put another 100 250k and so we can get that 2.5 percent of 10 or seven or six whatever whatever works on the number is whatever the number is the number is i think it's great as an entrepreneur love it i call it a pre-accelerator and so i'd like you to do a talk at it so uh hey producers

SPEAKER_563: can i want sunny to do an ai talk and an ai segment uh with the found university companies i've now done

SPEAKER_41: i just want to let people know 60 this year i did 60 25k checks i think so i'm deadly serious about this i am investing in 100 new companies a year and doing follow-ons with 50 companies and i think we're going to catch up to y combinator i don't you know listen launch one four launch.co slash memo

SPEAKER_51: launch.co memo there's a little bit of time for qps to get in but the i think the accredited investor

SPEAKER_16: slots are filled all right everybody we'll see you next time follow at sandeep follow at jason follow

SPEAKER_04: at twi startups we love you guys give us feedback sunny this has been a great joy now we play poker

SPEAKER_198: every week we do a podcast episode every week and then we're going to start chasing that pow pow let's

SPEAKER_586: let's let's do it we need to go everybody see you next time all right