SPEAKER_01: by the way boys look at this i'm down i'm up a button oh up a button this is why the all-in

SPEAKER_00: pod is falling apart is we got one bestie who thinks he's hemmingway we got another one who thinks he's italian nobility we got another one who all he wants to do is geek out about science and discuss nothing topical i mean you guys are a total mess and you're a total mess and you

SPEAKER_06: and you are cold open i'm present i've been present present i've been waiting for two weeks

SPEAKER_08: social and we got the guy who wants to be the next tucker carlson oh really bellcaster write that

SPEAKER_10: opening for you no what's wrong with your writing team write that soliloquy i'm coming in hot i've

SPEAKER_17: been waiting two weeks to go off three two david sacks okay everybody welcome back to the all-in

SPEAKER_23: podcast we took two weeks off for vacation uh with us today from cation uh sax is off his boat and ready to go uh after the tremendous boat episode friedberg who david why are you working from an irs office

SPEAKER_29: has joined a call center which call center are you working from this is david sacks from the call-in

SPEAKER_35: app can i set up your podcast for you please better get here by tonight okay yes you better play

SPEAKER_38: cards bestie this is best you better show up this lineup is a mr beast is showing up mr beast is

SPEAKER_39: going to play cards and he plays eight queen eight offsuit to crack phil it's going to be very

SPEAKER_43: entertaining all right i'm flying back this afternoon it's mr beast alan shipple muth this is

SPEAKER_47: going to be fireworks tonight fireworks i am going to lock it up the eight seat your eight seats locked

SPEAKER_48: up wait what time does it start seven to seven a.m no it's good is your uh is your guest house taken

SPEAKER_54: no you can stay in the guest house if you want great here we go no we start we started the show

SPEAKER_59: yes david we start at six but we're gonna break for dinner as normal at seven so get here by

SPEAKER_62: fucking six i'll come i gotta have dinner with my kids i haven't seen them in a month so uh

SPEAKER_66: all right just so you do you remember their names it's boop and boop and there's three of them okay

SPEAKER_39: yeah yeah there's three i'll come after dinner okay all right okay good good here we go uh first

SPEAKER_69: topic of the day is no you didn't do the intros all right three two no no you already did that part

SPEAKER_71: just introduced the you started with sax and you didn't say myself when did you become the director

SPEAKER_27: okay sit down scorsese all right with us again the dictator himself chamath palihapitiya back from

SPEAKER_74: his italian castle fresh off his italian castle retreat uh one button up maybe we should call

SPEAKER_62: you the duke instead of the dictator yeah because you know i'm thinking this this italian nobility

SPEAKER_78: thing to heart you know maybe jason invaded jason invaded my my castle he ravaged my toilets several

SPEAKER_69: over there he literally had he co-opted the butler he co-opted the chef and when he would bicycle back into the best life i'll be totally honest for a week he would bicycle he would bicycle back to the to the house the gate would close and they would scurry out with two little cokes a huge glass filled

SPEAKER_82: with ice i was so confused when i got what's going on he's like uh mr jason mr jason mr jason he always

SPEAKER_62: what percent what percent of your book did you write jay cal um well a non-fiction book typically

SPEAKER_23: 60 000 is the target so i'm going to write 60 and then try to edit it down to 50 and i got the first

SPEAKER_87: 10 done guys sorry can i just say on the on the plane as well as at my house jason read us the intro i'm not going to say what they're about or the title of the book the first couple chapters it's

SPEAKER_59: fucking amazing oh wow the idea no no no i legit the idea is amazing the title is fantastic and what he's written so far is exceptional i was genuinely like it's great it's really really great well a lot

SPEAKER_32: of it was informed by the discussions we've been having here uh of course back in the mix is friedberg

SPEAKER_93: the queen of quinoa uh in front of some kmart artwork uh that he purchased for his new house

SPEAKER_94: uh how are you doing queen uh how how are you feeling about your decision to not come to italy with

SPEAKER_38: us yeah queen i don't want to talk about it hey can we uh can we tell our best italy story oh my god i don't know what the best is a lot of best italy stories well i want to tell two stories and one of

SPEAKER_54: them is the joke i didn't make at the speech which i thought was the best fucking joke and i want to just get your reaction so i'm just going to tell all right so just to give a little background here

SPEAKER_94: our friend's 50th birthday two of our friends had 50th birthday it's me and our other friend

SPEAKER_39: and so we were in italy for a week as a group playing cards and celebrating those two birthdays the joke i didn't make was the following joke which is all right guys i just want this is for friend

SPEAKER_101: number one redacted yeah redacted yeah i just want to call out the elephant in the room you know

SPEAKER_54: there's really someone very very famous amongst us uh oh you know he's known uh to be one of the richest men in the world he's known um you know to really uh love rockets he throws you know up rockets all the time um the despotic leader of north korea is here kim jong-un everybody and i

SPEAKER_106: point to dc oh my god that was a joke i didn't get to make oh wow you can't tell that joke because

SPEAKER_110: because it would in context of you know obviously it would have been a very yeah uh all right and uh

SPEAKER_93: uh yeah it was just a great trip i have to say uh i took my yeah my italy story is that so the

SPEAKER_111: second birthday is jay cal the first birthday is a friend to remain nameless the second birthday

SPEAKER_62: redacted the second birthday was jay cal's 50th then we find out that jay cal's birthday was actually

SPEAKER_116: like six months ago six months ago november 28th yeah nobody nobody cared and frankly none of us went to italy for jay cal's birthday we went for the other guys we went to the other guys party yeah jay cal's birthday is like covid he keeps trying to bring it back in different variants and no one

SPEAKER_122: wants any part of it so on the last night the last night of the trip we had the jay cal birthday party and what do they serve pizza i mean like because it's on jay cal's dime i mean the rest of

SPEAKER_126: the week we had this like magnificent five star you throw my birthday party for me snacks you didn't

SPEAKER_00: even throw in any breadsticks i mean he was like he did doordash dominoes we had truffle pizza

SPEAKER_97: unlimited truffles it was delicious i think it was the best meal i think you're just a little jealous because the dinner you hosted maybe didn't hit the notes you wanted to hit sax oh my god are you

SPEAKER_86: serious we brought in a fucking troop from last week he flew in a circus about food i was talking about

SPEAKER_134: the pizza versus you know by the way i just want to say that that whole circus thing in the in the water uh i got so mad at one of my kids because it was so dark and the kids were in the pool yeah he

SPEAKER_69: kept diving yes and i kept saying stop i can't see you yeah and so i was just like he never none of

SPEAKER_14: the kids should have been in the pool i agree with that and the truth of the matter is you know my five years old was in the pool too and all i could do was keep an eye on him keep an eye on him so worried

SPEAKER_75: about i was playing left guard with my friends i didn't enjoy the show for that reason yeah they

SPEAKER_62: had the time of their lives yes they loved it and actually that was that was definitely worth it and

SPEAKER_143: the day before i want to give credit to sax because sax and i went down to that restaurant we made them

SPEAKER_145: open up the wine closet we raided it we found the best three bottles of wine and we brought them back

SPEAKER_62: for everybody oh and then and then i'm not sure if you remember this we taped an episode of call-in

SPEAKER_148: in which uh i was a little drunk yeah i was drunk i was completely yeah so anyway the whole world can

SPEAKER_62: listen to us drunk on call in in uh we're launching on september 2nd so oh wow yeah nice

SPEAKER_93: congrats yeah it's gonna be a big deal and uh congratulations to the all-in syndicate members who wet their beaks and to my syndicate members uh people don't know this but it was the absolute

SPEAKER_94: record we've ever had for any syndicate i believe at the end of the day we had 150 slots and we had 950 people apply sax amazing we had a million or so in allocation and i think we had 7 million in

SPEAKER_62: demand i am really excited i'm really excited about this product yes i'm really excited about this product it's the best product i've been involved in creating it's better than yammer it's better than

SPEAKER_159: paypal truly spicy take wow i'm really glad daddy daddy got a little tasty poop sex don't hurt your um

SPEAKER_161: don't hurt your elbow patting yourself on the back there but go ahead continue

SPEAKER_166: that's a little you got a little product manager elbow there don't dislocate your tricep the feedback

SPEAKER_62: we've gotten from users has been incredible i mean it's just the reaction's really strong what's good

SPEAKER_94: about it here's here's what i think you nailed um as a person who's been in podcasting for over a decade um the critical um aspect of this is when you pop up your club or room on call-in it creates a

SPEAKER_23: podcast out of it with an rss feed um and you can go listen to the previous show so if you are listening to this and you wanted to create your own version of all in you could do it on call-in just get three of your knucklehead friends and talk about your adventures on boats and private jets and drinking fine wine wherever you are and you can start your own podcast yeah it's not really expensive

SPEAKER_75: wine not included right it's not the key insight it's not about the room it's about the show you know like everything we think of as social audio is really just a feature of creating a show creating a new podcast and uh so anyway people really like it i'm very excited september how many

SPEAKER_177: shows have been created in the beta this is the thing that's blown me away is like well over

SPEAKER_178: a hundred i think maybe a couple a hundred if you go to the show directory you and and the cover art

SPEAKER_75: that people have created is really elaborate you know people are really getting into it i said this

SPEAKER_87: before i think you're a phenomenal you're a phenomenal uh product builder so i think this is really

SPEAKER_23: exciting yeah under underrated product builder i would say but no it's just interesting that this doesn't exist somebody should have made this already like there's zencaster and riverside for

SPEAKER_87: recording podcasts there's libsyn for hosting them what uh what's happened as a as a protected minority i'd like to ask this question what happens what's happening to clubhouse um i think it's

SPEAKER_72: irrelevant i'll be i don't i don't want to dunk on founders but um i think that they uh no but why

SPEAKER_192: can't they just do these features it sounds i mean i'm not i'm not trying to take anything away from you

SPEAKER_194: they will copy sax's features for sure i think they will copy it at some point yeah but but i think

SPEAKER_62: that it's a good question and i really think there's different visions here so i mean i've listened to

SPEAKER_75: their founder talk about his vision and it's very much about creating this live serendipitous type experience like kind of like a cocktail party and that's fine we're not doing that we're creating long tail podcasting is what we're doing and my experience is informed by what we've all been doing on the show for last year and a half which is podcasting right and the thing that i've seen that i didn't know until we did the all in pod is how much work goes into what jcal does behind the scenes it's incredible we got nick doing six hours of post-production on the show i want to automate all

SPEAKER_62: that work away so anybody can do what we do and that's like a very different vision no offense nick

SPEAKER_202: no i mean not everybody is going to want to put the type of post-production into this they don't

SPEAKER_94: have you know i've got six people on our podcast team like it's not everybody's got that infrastructure so over time you'll build that i believe it um i think it will turn out great all right let's get to our first um topic here uh while we were away the united states started the process of leaving

SPEAKER_93: afghanistan after a 20 year war uh in which i think it's pretty safe to say that was an unwinnable war and uh we uh have felt like the russians did sax had a uh tweet uh that was a well getting a little

SPEAKER_94: bit of play on the old twitter what we're seeing before our eyes is the collapse of the american empire because the people in charge are completely corrupt and incompetent but we can't talk about

SPEAKER_93: that because insiders can never criticize other insiders the larry summers rule did i tweet that

SPEAKER_208: you did oh yeah i mean you might have had a couple of drinks um and then sorry he actually didn't he

SPEAKER_210: just texted that in the group okay so that was a confidential text to our thought to our group that

SPEAKER_62: we're not supposed to even say exist well no it's okay don't beep it it's okay i mean it's it's it's true it's it's not exactly what i tweeted but it's similar to things i've been tweeting and tragically

SPEAKER_93: uh yesterday um isis k which is an afghan affiliate of the islamic state claimed responsibility for uh two

SPEAKER_194: suicide bombings outside of the airport and that tragically killed over 100 people uh 90 afghan

SPEAKER_204: citizens and 13 american service members i guess you know we're not here to talk about um wars it's

SPEAKER_194: not exactly in the mandate but everybody wants our opinion on this so let's get started sax you have

SPEAKER_62: strong opinions we'll start well it's yeah i mean it's how can you not talk about this this feels to

SPEAKER_75: me this is one of those events where you know i was glued to my tv for days i think i was in france at the time the taliban overrun overran kabul and yeah it was you know the afghanistan war's been going on for 20 years no one's been talking about it it's just this thing that's been happening in the background but all along we've been assured by the pentagon that we're winning hey you know don't

SPEAKER_62: worry about this we got this and then you wake up one day and all of a sudden we've lost the war and the taliban's overrunning the country and you're like what is going on here you know not only is

SPEAKER_178: the the botched withdrawal incompetent the fact that we were lied to for two decades about what was really happening um the the idea that we had created you know we were how many times were we told that we had created this afghan army it was 300 strong we spent you know two trillion dollars

SPEAKER_62: in the country uh you know being and we were told the whole time that we were building institutions there uh that you know that we were creating a democracy in the middle east that we were even you know promoting gender equality and uh lecturing the taliban on toxic masculinity or something like that and then we find out one day that poof the whole thing was just kind of a lie it was this giant

SPEAKER_178: debacle and now we can't even get our uh we can't even get our civilians out of the country

SPEAKER_219: not only that but we we've seen 12 people 12 american servicemen and women killed

SPEAKER_134: yesterday trying to 13 trying to protect the airport uh almost 100 um afghans uh now we'd only have to not only contend with the taliban whose positions i don't think any of us know about but we also have to deal with isis k which is like some you know offshoot affiliate of isis run by a guy who was actually summarily killed by the taliban but that didn't clearly stop anybody the the level of honestly just to say the the the lying that we've been doing on this topic is just utterly um

SPEAKER_59: it's really really scary you know how could we have gone 20 years 2 trillion dollars 2400 american lives and counting and found a way to just basically waste all this money and tell ourselves these lies for so long and it turns out none of it was true um and then the back half of it is that we look like a little bit of a country that's sort of in decline because we can't even figure out an orderly withdrawal it's not as if you know this thing came out of the blue out of nowhere this was a negotiated withdrawal so we had months to plan for this you know and we had months to do the right honorable moral thing for all of these for for all of these people that helped us in that country just to give you a a small anecdote you know the day that kabul was overrun you know the democrats were actually tweeting out about uh celebrating librarian day that's what they were focused on jason and i on the way back you know i we flew back with my with my mom and my sister we we stopped in toronto to drop them off and the planes beside us jason do you remember this yeah i think i think brett or paul

SPEAKER_134: were telling us my pilots were telling us these planes uh had been going back and forth saving

SPEAKER_59: refugees in afghanistan and it's like wow what an honor to just be beside these these amazingly heroic men and women and you know i don't know jason if you saw but as we were refueling they came and boarded and they were getting ready to leave again meanwhile that america cannot get even to a point of view on the topic and i think that's what's so shameful it's like not only did we spend the money not only did we lose all these lives not only didn't we have an orderly withdrawal we couldn't even at the end

SPEAKER_69: guarantee the safety of americans or do the right thing for all these people who risk their lives to

SPEAKER_228: help us fight clearly a useless war freeberg you have lots watching all this i know you don't like when we delve into politics too much but what do you have you have any thoughts you want to add yeah

SPEAKER_230: i don't know if it's about politics as much as um i kind of use a little bit of a startup analogy

SPEAKER_232: like america never really found product market fit with what we were trying to do in afghanistan there's some fantastic um gallup polling that's been done in afghanistan over the past uh 15 20 years already and they've actually had people on the ground polling there and most recently which has been consistent for over 10 years polling shown that 87 to 90 percent of afghans said that the government is corrupt this is the government you know put in power put in place by the united states 90 say businesses are corrupt and if you go back to a poll they ran in 2010 the question was in general which of these statements comes closest to your point of view sharia law must be the only source of legislation 56 of the afghan population in 2010 believed that to be true and another 38 said sharia law must be a source of legislation but not the only source that leaves just seven percent of people that think that sharia law should not be is it sharia or sharia sharia sorry sharia law should not be part of the um legislative process uh in defining the afghan laws and constitution and so um you know it's really telling that you know it's almost like when you when you start a company and you try and create a product and you sell it to a customer base you got to figure out what the product is you got to make sure the customers want it and then the the the idea for the startup works the problem here is our views as a nation and maybe western democracy doesn't necessarily fit with what that market wants and we can certainly make the case that we believe that our ethics and our values are superior and provide more of an opportunity for individual freedom and liberty things that we believe should be available around the world but if the market's not buying it the customers don't want it you're really just raising a ton of venture money trying to create a product that no one really wants and at the end of the day you're you're trillion dollars down and you have to shut the thing down and it goes bankrupt and that's effectively what went down here and if you look at the history of afghanistan remember they were in the soviet afghan war in the 80s nearly the entire decade of the 80s then the taliban came along and provided a degree of stability in the 90s and then all of a sudden this al-qaeda 9-11 war began um you know after taliban had been in power for a year and it's been 20 plus years of strife and 20 years of strife and challenge where the population have increasingly viewed the government to be corrupt businesses to be corrupt and here's a really interesting statistic which also came out of this uh polling that gallup does over the last 10 years the percentage of afghans that are happy with their present household income has gone or are not happy sorry with their present household income has gone from 60 to 90 percent nine out of ten afghans as of last year were not making enough money to make ends meet so you put all of these facts together you've got this long history of strife with this you know company effectively coming in trying to tell you how to run your government how to run your country that doesn't match with your beliefs on on your your the way you think a government should be built you've got all this turmoil that's happened historically you know it really was um i would say to some degree this inevitable failure of a startup that got overfunded that never found product market fit that never really got off the ground certainly the exit strategy on how do you wind something down in this case and it certainly relates to human lives and the tragedy of the partners that we had on the ground um was was totally mishandled but the broader picture here is like i think it's more corrupt than that i think that we

SPEAKER_100: basically engaged in a two trillion dollar wealth transfer from the people of the united states the citizens of the united states to the military industrial complex that's what we did well i mean

SPEAKER_94: i have two points i want to i want to build on from from yours freeberg and now yours chamath which is the original mandate here was to go and get rid of al-qaeda and to also you know kill osama bin laden and to not have uh the taliban giving safe harbor to al-qaeda that quick that mission got accomplished in large part in the first year or two and then uh when we finally got to osama bin laden in pakistan i think it it probably would have been a better idea to understand this is an unwinnable war get in there destroy the taliban leave and then say if you come back we'll do it again but we're not going to stay here for 20 years to your point freeberg and try to create a revolution if the people are not ready for it i think that we have to start looking at our foreign policy and saying we do need we do have a better view of human rights clearly than the middle east

SPEAKER_204: uh and certainly afghanistan and we do want to promote human rights around the world and freedom

SPEAKER_145: we're not doing that we're not we're not we're not freedom fighters of democracy or justice we should be we should be we are led by motives of revenue and profit i know that but we should be

SPEAKER_204: and when we went and we kicked the nazis asses uh and we beat japan when you know they were trying to dominate the world we were doing it to stop communism and i think when you look at nation building and these these kind of revolutions to friedberg's point they have to want it as well so we should be working with the countries that are teetering on going from authoritarianism to democracy and we should take the high ground and we should be the moral authority of the world

SPEAKER_134: because if we're not who's going to be i i agree with that part but i think the right thing to do is

SPEAKER_59: just to open our doors and say you know what we're here there's a draft right and the smart and the capable and the willing we're willing to basically bring uh inside of our borders so that they can work on our behalf and that's what other countries i think get right about all of this stuff like again as a canadian um you know the canadian perspective of this is not that you deploy troops and you get embroiled in these you know debacles over 20 years and thousands of lives and trillions of dollars it's the exact opposite they're there to support humanitarian efforts right they're there to send peace keeping forces as they need to but otherwise their real response is to actually then open the borders for folks that want to be there who are then wanting to trade up jason to those values because that's the simple way to self-select instead of saying i'm going to impose my version of democracy over there i'm actually going to show you what our version looks like over here and if you want to

SPEAKER_170: come the doors are open certainly being an example is step one and we i think do that largely well but

SPEAKER_94: we do need to sometimes intervene and i think that's the question here is when is it just to intervene when there is human rights on the line and a country is teetering on authoritarianism or democracy

SPEAKER_75: like where is that line the just cause here was to go get osama bin laden because he attacked us and we should have gotten out of that country as soon as we realized that bin laden was no longer there i

SPEAKER_62: mean that was basically after the battle of torah borah and if we didn't leave then we certainly should have left after we got bin laden in around 2010 so what were we still doing there we were engaged in this exercise of nation building which by the way we spent six trillion dollars on nation building exercises in the middle east between afghanistan and iraq uh for what for not this is why the electorate

SPEAKER_178: is in such a foul mood how many of our domestic disputes are caused by the fact that we squandered that six trillion dollars that's more than biden's entire domestic agenda um you know so we wasted all this money to freeberg's point we never understood the culture there and to chamas point it was a giant

SPEAKER_62: money funneling operation to defense contractors there's a great piece of reporting by an independent journalist named michael tracy and he talked to frontline grunts about the the wasteful spending

SPEAKER_178: you know they would send 12 humvees to some local afghan partner only two of them would ever get there the other 10 would would break down and disappear no one would even know where all the money went it was

SPEAKER_62: like an unbelievable orgy of of wastefulness and um you know one other important detail on this there there's a a guy who i think should be much more famous to all of us uh his name is john f sopko he's the special inspector general for afghanistan reconstruction uh that short for cigar he was appointed by congress about 13 years ago to look into what was really happening in afghanistan

SPEAKER_178: and to report on quote quote unquote lessons learned from the afghan war and so for 13 years sapco has been very quietly diligently interviewing people from everyone from frontline troops to commanders about what's really been happening in afghanistan and he's been releasing these reports that everyone in dc knows about but nobody in the country knows about let me just read you these are just the chapter titles from his latest report okay jesus just the chapter titles harmful spending patterns resistance to honesty personnel struggles willful disregard for critical information incorrect theories of change poor understanding of local context and by the way that includes ignoring things like the sexual abuse of young boys by afghan warlords who are our allies okay which the new york times reported on we completely have swept that under the rug okay that's just a table of contents okay from one of his latest reports which is about 100 pages complete incompetence on our in our government complete waste the pentagon was telling us the whole time i mean while this guy sapco the cigar you know the special inspector general was telling us the truth of what was happening you've got the pentagon telling us and the elected leaders the whole time that we're winning this war that things are improving they had all these uh bogus metrics to prove it and you know and so it's

SPEAKER_249: this it's a systemic failure but sex what would be their motivation to say it's not working

SPEAKER_251: look i i think i think that well right what would be the motivation you're right you can't you can't fix

SPEAKER_134: what you don't measure and so basically like if you want to lie there there you have it we have that

SPEAKER_254: now for 20 years of lying let's talk about the metrics because this is actually an important point but this is my point it's like what what's what what's the objective for them to be measured what's

SPEAKER_257: the objective in that case the objective is to demonstrate no the objective is to demonstrate

SPEAKER_59: leadership the objective is to basically say you know what this is really not working and this is about putting yourself in the position of a person whose child is over there okay if any of our children were there who signed up because they thought they wanted to do the right thing and and and you know be in the army or the navy or the marines found themselves in afghanistan got killed god heaven forbid and then that body comes back and this report comes with it which is effectively what it is okay this is the coda to the death of two point you know 2400 americans and two trillion dollars i would be so heartbroken i am heartbroken just thinking about this like this is not that's not what we're about so we can't keep doing this and we can't keep lying we can't

SPEAKER_75: rationalize lying anymore right well i i agree with that and let me just speak to the point about the metrics because the problem was not that we didn't have any metrics the problem is that the metrics were bogus now why is that well first of all the mission was very unclear it's not clear how

SPEAKER_178: you measure the success of transforming a country to afghanistan like afghanistan to our values i mean what what really are the metrics for that so what the military started doing is not measuring outputs but measuring inputs so you have you know the commanders on the ground saying well today we trained a thousand new afghan troops okay but what they don't say is that over 90 of those troops are illiterate and 85 of them are on drugs i mean and this is what the journalists who are on the ground when they would do the interviews with these you know with these uh you know frontline uh commanders or trainers they would find this out now why wasn't this in the report well because the military is a culture that's based on advancement it's basically the pentagon is a big country club it's a big insiders club there's a dogma the dogma was we're winning the war and if you want to advance in that organization you're not going to be the one you're not going to be the skunk at the garden party who tells the generals that they're full of you're basically gonna be the guy who gives them the metrics they want to hear and then their boss the the person who's the boss of the frontline guy is going to improve things 20 he's going to shade things another 20 and then the next guy in the chain of command shades things 20 and by the time you get all the way to the top the chairman of the chiefs is telling biden we have an army that's 300 000 strong these guys are going to take over the country we're not gonna have a problem we're gonna have plenty of time to get our people out and that is why we had a lackadaisical withdrawal strategy these guys thought they had all the time in the world because systemically they've been bullshitting themselves about having a 300 000 man afghan army and then you know when you actually look under the hood of this thing there is no army it's just a basically a bunch of kleptocracy i think

SPEAKER_134: what happened at the end of this thing is even more dangerous for the future on top of everything you

SPEAKER_59: said david which i agree with is that what we basically said is that we will engage in whatever

SPEAKER_145: cover-up is necessary because we're not willing to lead and talk about the mistakes we've made and to

SPEAKER_59: do the things that are necessary to really fix it and that's what's really sad because as

SPEAKER_264: he said as you said sax the minute that you knew that uh bin laden wasn't there we had a choice then the minute you knew that he was already dead we had a choice and the choice was to do the right thing

SPEAKER_59: and instead what happened was we got caught up in virtue signaling we got caught up in personal advancement we got caught up in the grift we got caught up in graft we got caught up in corruption we got caught up in the you know military industrial complex and here's here's where we are and the crazy thing is biden had a moment where he could have stepped in and said you know what guys i'm looking at all of this data here's the new plan and he didn't do it either let me ask you a question if

SPEAKER_94: biden had run an orderly exit and then it spiraled into taliban and reverted back to what it was how

SPEAKER_269: would you feel about all this i think i think that would have been that's the goal right trump

SPEAKER_23: wanted to get out yes and biden both wanted to get so if we just executed twice as good or 50 better there'd be no problem here we all want to be out correct yes that that decision the decision

SPEAKER_75: to get out was a 70 popular decision when biden made the decision in april and then they and when trump made it last time because he did that's right this is a bipartisan decision

SPEAKER_62: to get out let's not pretend otherwise it was clearly the correct decision to get out but here's where biden screwed it up okay and there's some blame that needs to be apportioned to biden and to the to the generals and we don't really know who screwed it up but collectively they

SPEAKER_178: did the big mistake the original sin of this withdrawal is that they pulled out of bagram airfield at the beginning of july okay they didn't just pull out they literally ghosted the afghan i mean they pulled out in the middle of the night without telling anybody the afghans army who are our allies woke up the next morning and the americans were just gone and the electricity had been turned off i mean this was unbelievable and so the problem is we then lost our air superiority over the country we lost our ability to conduct close combat air support we lost our ability to do a mass evacuation okay we basically gave up our central military asset in the country before we got the civilians out before we got our allies out and there were 18 000 of these so-called civs the special immigration visas these are the afghani translators and helpers who are embedded in our combat units we the the state department meanwhile was totally caught up in bureaucracy slow walking their applications those 18 000 translators are now stuck there okay they have 50 000 dependents we're talking about spouses and children and that so they have no way of getting out and then the final thing that just takes the cake is that we gave a list to the taliban of here's our biggest helpers when if they go to the checkpoints we want you to let them through oh my lord so there's basically an assassination this is your death list i mean this is really unforgivable and it's and it's and this was it's not like this was unknown okay there was a bipartisan working group of both democrats and republicans who wrote a letter to blinken at the state department back in may saying we are afraid of about the safety of our afghan allies you need to get them out now the state department is taking too long processing the special immigration visas you're totally caught up in red tape bureaucracies solve this problem

SPEAKER_276: blinken did nothing he was another deer caught in the headlights they could have also just uh instead

SPEAKER_23: of making people fill out all these forms and all this red tape i heard one commenter saying like the right thing to do in situations like this is to just get everybody out put them in a holding uh location and then process them there in other words if this person says they were translating their family and they have you know relatively good paperwork get them out put them into that holding pattern and then figure out how to process them later we got to wrap on this discussion get to some

SPEAKER_94: other topics but the interesting thing to watch here is what's going to be the future of afghanistan and i don't know if you guys saw the financial times story but china is watching this uh like a hawk and they china and russia are just sitting there laughing well china is even worse they have aspirations of partnership in this region with pakistan already and afghanistan and building super highways and expanding their train network and having their own silk road essentially to to get to the middle east from china and this is going to be the uh axis of uh look at the united states

SPEAKER_145: authoritarianism by biden asked putin if it was okay for us to stage military resources from you know from from from close quarters in asia then uh putin was like no go jason i think what you

SPEAKER_232: what you just pointed out is the motivating factor for um having a presence in this and other similar

SPEAKER_285: similarly situated territories around the world yeah a lot of people assume it's about imperialism and imposing kind of american democratic principles and ideals i think that's the way the narrative is sold internally here at this country but the truth from the intelligence community and i think the folks that maybe are a little bit more thoughtful and long-term thinking about this sort of stuff is that the absence of an american presence in certain parts of the world will enable um the uh the success of what we would consider competing states globally um and you know there is still that unanswered question ultimately of how do we compete on a global stage um given what is currently um a very negative view on our having a presence overseas a military presence overseas a physical presence overseas um in these sorts of territories and it begs the question of does that really set us up for challenges and failures in the 21st century as a nation state um as the other global players in

SPEAKER_287: particular china you know take advantage of these openings yeah well i i agree with that and let me

SPEAKER_62: just let me just say why china is so smart and we are so dumb china is going to afghanistan right now and cutting deals with the taliban to build a highway so they can get to the rare earth minerals which afghanistan is rich in and they're going to use the superhighway they're going to build to get that out and feed their economy that is how they're going to spend their capital in afghanistan meanwhile

SPEAKER_178: we spent over two trillion we have nothing to show for it you know they go abroad in search of rare earth minerals we go there to lecture people on toxic masculinity it is absurd okay now the president

SPEAKER_291: well you know what sax is a little too cynical we were also protecting no it's not educating women

SPEAKER_295: in that country and don't forget the pronouns yes they them it's very important that's right we go

SPEAKER_297: there to lecture people on their pronouns no that is too far too cynical no it's not we went there to

SPEAKER_74: protect some people who wanted democracy and to allow women to read and to be oh we members of

SPEAKER_143: society i'm sorry we just flushed that we just flushed that right down the toilet sorry i know that

Chamath Palihapitiya: but i mean let's not conflate that we just want to lecture but david david is right we knew that the minute we pulled out we were casting 50 of that population to a complete state of stasis that was

SPEAKER_90: completely not known so are you saying sacks that we should have stayed there with some presence well

SPEAKER_253: this is this is like the argument in vietnam no tell the truth we should have just told the truth

SPEAKER_90: we're leaving we don't have a plan and this is going to risk all women it's going to risk people

SPEAKER_59: that helped us and we are not sure what's going to happen but you know what we decided we're leaving

SPEAKER_306: that was the truth remember remember the vietnam war we killed 2 million vietnamese to make the

SPEAKER_178: country safe for democracy you know what the vietnamese said at the end of that we'd rather have our 2 million people back we see these wars in terms of ideology we think we're going there to spread democracy they see it in terms of nationalism all they see is a foreign invader trying to impose their values that's why they don't buy into what we're doing and by the way the whole idea that we're going to plant madisonian democracy in the soil of the middle east that was a 20-year folly that cost us trillions and one of the reasons why there are no madisons over there there are no madisons there are no jeffersons there are no washington's who is going to take up that cause what we had in afghanistan is this president ghani who's a crook who was off on the first helicopter with millions of our dollars that is how stupid we are it's the last place we should be trying to do

SPEAKER_308: democracy there's other places where it's teetering and we can probably be more helpful the american

SPEAKER_178: president john quincy adams this is back when america had a rational foreign policy he said america does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy that used to be our foreign policy now we involve ourselves all over the world to impose our values for no reasons it is costing us a fortune and has led to the crumbling of the america of of american wealth and power and it completely

SPEAKER_225: erodes our trust in institutions particularly the institution of the federal government

SPEAKER_264: and we're left just scratching our heads saying if not these guys then who is going to figure this out

SPEAKER_93: what do we do if uh chamath and uh sacks if you're don't want to be if you don't want to support

SPEAKER_38: democracy in the world what happens to taiwan in your world this signed taiwan's death ward i'm

Chamath Palihapitiya: sorry but you should just assume so we should just let taiwan go no my point is the following taiwan will when the when prc has the right window be under complete chinese control and we because of how we have executed this and how we've executed the rest of our middle asia strategy means that we will not really engage and the reason is because it will be an enormous food fight inside the united states where all of these past experiences of us this up will come up should we defend taiwan except by the way the difference is we're not going to we would not be going to war with a bunch

SPEAKER_264: of like tribal people in the mountains carrying sticks and ak-47s from the 80s this is china

SPEAKER_317: so if we can't if we if we can't beat and win in afghanistan i mean we also what are our

SPEAKER_94: chance i mean i'm sorry guys but our chances alone it's not worth it with a group of japan south korea australia and the eu we should be defending taiwan in my mind what do you think

SPEAKER_308: freeberg should we try and defend taiwan when this inevitably leads to the chinese government

SPEAKER_232: finding their window as chamath is predicting again i don't think that the motivating factor

SPEAKER_285: could necessarily be imposing democratic principles as the priority if you were to to to actually weigh that decision you would realize that you should probably have a presence in some latin american countries you should probably have a presence in central africa where there are authoritarian regimes that are doing terrible things but we don't have a competing

SPEAKER_94: global interest there to defend against well to be clear it taiwan is right now democratic so we would

SPEAKER_59: be defending a democracy freeberg jake is asking a specific question if china invades taiwan do you think the united states should get involved on a principles basis or do i think the united states

SPEAKER_232: will get involved either one yeah i mean i think the challenge is the escalation with china right so that's going to be the big calculus it's really about what's the what's the long-term cost certainly on a principle basis you'd say let's go defend the weak and go protect them because they share principles and ideals with us but the the the backlash the challenge would be if we were to do this global trade would stall there would be um massive issues at home with people saying that we're getting involved in an overseas war all of the reasons that from a political perspective it would stall our economy it would cause all these you know i'm kind of um speculating a bit here but the actual cost isn't just about sending a few thousand troops over and surrounding the island and protecting people it's actually much more severe than that and if you were to weigh it it could be that we end up with 25 30 million people losing their jobs over the next decade because of the economic fallout that occurs um in our doing that and so on and so forth and a lot of american prosperity that we get to enjoy um you know kind of kind of declines and so that's the real calculus and i don't know how to do that calculus but i think that is the calculus that that is being done by the intelligence community to figure out the answer to that question let's swing it to sacks to do a

SPEAKER_94: little bit more of this calculus because what we're talking about here is not giving up an authoritarian state right that wants to be authoritarian we're talking about a democracy

SPEAKER_32: on the risk board that would be taken and flipped from a democracy in like hong kong has been flipped

SPEAKER_75: i think it's a i think it's a very important distinction that taiwan is already a democracy they got there on their own they've done a lot of hard work building that country since uh that

SPEAKER_62: basically the the country became separate from mainland china i think in 1945. it's never been under the control of the ccp it's uh it's a free enterprise system it's democratic capitalism there's basically 24 million free souls who live on that island and if we show any weakness and we frankly already have by what we've done in the middle east if we show any weakness they will fall under the boot of the

SPEAKER_178: communist regime so i think it's there's a big difference between trying to plant democracy or nation build uh verse in a country that's never had it before in thousands of years and basically being friends and allies with a country that already is a democracy and just wants to be free and i think our message to china should just be we like things the way they are we don't want them to change that's it we have a policy of what's called strategic ambiguity to taiwan it basically says that we may come to the defense of taiwan or we may not and i think we should just continue with that policy i think our message should just be we like the status quo we don't think it should change let's

SPEAKER_54: leave things alone i think that that's fine but i think we need to be investing hundreds of billions

SPEAKER_134: the trillions of dollars we wasted in afghanistan could have been better served building an infrastructure in america for chips and semiconductors and a bunch of these critical components because then it would give us a lot more bargaining room to uh actually be able to play

SPEAKER_264: out that strategic ambiguity more fully i think the reality is that despite the policy framework the practical economic reality is that we would be engulfed in a war if if taiwan were taken over by china because as friedberg said our economy would ground to a halt because those critical assets are linchpins

SPEAKER_59: for how massive swaths of the american economy work yeah i'll tell you one thing we should be making

SPEAKER_62: plans for i don't know if our military is competent enough but we've talked on this pod before about

SPEAKER_75: how what 70 percent of the advanced chips come out of taiwan companies like tsmc if china takes over

SPEAKER_178: that island i mean those chips are the new oil right we're going to be dependent on them in a way we never should be for our supply chain you're right your mouth we never should have gotten this dependent but frankly our military needs to have a plan to sabotage those chip factories because we can't let them fall under the control of the ccp um i don't know if they're competent enough to do

SPEAKER_327: that but but if taiwan falls it needs to be a poison chalice for the ccp we're going to need

SPEAKER_308: to make some decisions here because russia with crimea and the ukraine and their ambitions and

SPEAKER_93: then china taking over hong kong and looking at taiwan i mean i think the lesson here is if you're a

SPEAKER_23: dictator and you are allowed to take over other regions and other you know countries you're not going to stop it is the nature of dictators and we have to at least put our foot down you know

David Friedberg: afghanistan's a shitshow but these other places we're flat-footed right now jakel we're stumbling

SPEAKER_59: that's why this is a serious problem so and so we need to we need to sort of like recenter ourselves and get momentum you know you to use a poker analogy we basically just bluffed off half our stack with the jacket offsuit and then what and then when you get the ace king suited you have no

SPEAKER_250: chips to play with yeah right you know and you're just like what was i doing credibility basically

SPEAKER_00: 9 11 9 11 put us on tilt okay and we've been losing pots for the last 20 years now we just lost the big one and the question is to jama's point are we going to lose the rest of our stack or we're going to go take a walk around the block like muth does center ourselves re-center time to

SPEAKER_134: re-center time to take time to reset on the recentering thing china is going in the opposite direction in a way that could actually help us meaning like you know it's uh it's a pretty scary set of things that's

SPEAKER_59: happening over there but it's also a kind of instructive about how we could recenter ourselves because there's they're actually enacting the laws that we all talk about we've been talking about for

SPEAKER_69: seven months but they're actually willing to do it and they and so if american policy makers would

David Friedberg: actually pivot to what's going on over there with the china or should we go to robotics uh let's let's

SPEAKER_39: finish china and then we can and then we can talk about china is continuing their uh crackdown of tech

SPEAKER_94: companies uh and has proposed a ban on foreign ipos uh the wall street journal had some exclusive reporting today i'll just read a quote and then hand it over to chamath china plans to propose new rules that would ban companies with large amounts of sensitive consumer data from going public in the u.s people familiar with the matter said and in addition to that uh under these new rules they are looking at the algorithms that are being run uh and different services and making them transparent and the chinese government will basically control the algorithms that have caused so much chaos here in the united states with facebook and twitter and youtube and then finally they're going to close the

SPEAKER_342: loophole on vi ease chamathi want to explain what this means from a market perspective today's a really

SPEAKER_86: big day um because of these things jason as you just said so let me just break this down because i

SPEAKER_134: think it's interesting for us to all learn about this together so one thing is around the technology which i'll talk about in a second which you just uh uh talked about and then uh previewed and then the the second is around the capital markets and the money flow and that and this is a really big deal so what

SPEAKER_59: is a vie because you're going to hear this a lot a vie is what's called a variable interest entity and what it is is just a massive workaround so essentially what happened was uh a vie was a legal business where you know an entity had control of a company okay through a contract but not through equity so it's kind of like you know sacks like i had a contract with colin that said i can dictate you know who does

SPEAKER_264: what etc but i don't own any equity now the the company that completely ran afoul of all of these things was enron and back in 2001 enron went ham as we all know they had a bunch of these vie's and they used it to basically shield a bunch of losses and do a bunch of shady things so then there was a bunch of accounting laws that were introduced china on a completely separate track around that same time was like hey listen we want to control our economy so we're going to prohibit foreign ownership so just for all you guys to know china to this day does not allow a foreigner to own a piece large sections of the chinese economy okay so as of 2018 which is the last updated list as far as i could

SPEAKER_59: find it there are 33 sectors of the economy where china says you cannot be a foreigner and own any

SPEAKER_346: equity you have to have a local partner no you cannot own any equity yeah exactly if you want to start a

SPEAKER_264: business there you have to have like a partner like yahoo did so all technology companies fall under this all data companies any education company any media company so you can imagine it's basically

SPEAKER_59: every part of the economy that matters and so with because of all these restrictions you know the chinese internet companies were like hey hold on a second i need to get access to the capital markets

SPEAKER_264: what do i do they dusted off the vie structure and they basically created all of these um you know cayman's holding companies and that's where all the american investors would go and buy equity from or

SPEAKER_59: contribute equity to and so you know tencent alibaba baidu dd.com jd all of these folks have these vie's and what's interesting about these vie's is it's written clear as day but not a single investor seemed to care but in the prospectuses of these chinese companies they were clear it doesn't

SPEAKER_264: mean you actually have a claim on the assets it doesn't mean you can actually make a demand of management i mean if you saw this in an american prospectus you would not put a single dollar into

SPEAKER_59: these companies but in fact the exact opposite happened because people were greedy and chasing the money

SPEAKER_264: and and these risks by the way came back to bear because jason i think you were the one that gave the example of the chinese tutoring guys where you know overnight this guy lost 99 of his net worth i think this was a one or two pods ago the way they did that was that they cancelled the vie's

SPEAKER_59: they said online tutoring nope sorry these things can't exist anymore and so essentially we have the situation now where uh vie's are part of 58 companies uh massive chinese mega cap companies that are in the huge indexes in in the united states these 58 companies account for two trillion dollars of market cap we are we are we are now in a situation now where the chinese government basically says for online tutoring we're going to cancel the vie's in a bunch of other areas we're going to start with regulation we could cancel the vie's later and so we've essentially put the capital markets in my opinion on pause and so now let's transition capital markets in china capital markets in china

SPEAKER_264: i think now are the most volatile they've ever been essentially the people's republic of china the government the ccp chooses how and who will make money and they are basically putting their foot down

SPEAKER_94: in a big way in the capital what happens to the 1.62 trillion in existing shares that have been bought by people around the world would there be some way to unravel that or a tender offer you're going to

SPEAKER_264: have to delist these adrs i don't exactly know what would happen i think what happens is that am i

Chamath Palihapitiya: correct no you you have capital laws jason because when they cancelled the online tutoring vie's the

SPEAKER_59: stock prices basically went to zero so you could eviscerate two trillion dollars of market cap tomorrow

SPEAKER_264: if they decide you know what that vie for alibaba by the way nick i'll send it to you but it's a it's a thing of art if you look at the vie structure for baba i mean it is a fucking babushka doll of nesting entities and this or that i don't know how any investor who bought shares in alibaba

SPEAKER_59: actually took the time to understand what they were actually buying they suspended disbelief because they

David Friedberg: were greedy so so the point is that's happening okay so the the capital markets are now i think

SPEAKER_264: getting uh really constrained the compliment to this is that they're starting to now introduce legislation as a prelude in my opinion to canceling some of these vie's in the most important area that we care about which is tech so jason to your point the chinese cyberspace watchdog today or yesterday i think it was they just published a list of draft regulations that will now become law i'm just going to read this to you so uh let me just just fyi for you guys so let me just give you a sense of them users must be provided with a convenient way to see and delete all the keywords that an algorithm uses to profile them number two providers shall not have that providers shall not record illegal and

Chamath Palihapitiya: undesirable keywords in the user points of interest or as user tags and push information content to them

SPEAKER_264: and they may not become discriminatory or biased based on that information users must be informed

Chamath Palihapitiya: that algorithms are being used on them to recommend content or products to them and they must be allowed to opt out and see completely generic non-personalized results the algorithm recommendation shall adhere to me this is incredible to mainstream values i don't know what that means they must have harmony in china they must actively spread positive energy and promote the application of algorithms for the better providers shall regularly review and evaluate and verify these algorithms models and data

SPEAKER_264: with these watchdogs these watchdogs will now start to increasingly take board seats on the comp on

SPEAKER_224: on chinese companies so you put these two things together it is a take a moment in china tech it's a

SPEAKER_62: take over yes yes i mean so so some of those provisions sound like you know privacy regulations we might want to adopt over here completely but i think we should focus on the one towards the end that you mentioned the algorithm recommendation service providers shall adhere to mainstream values actively

SPEAKER_178: spread positive energy and promote applications for the better now how do you actively spread positive

SPEAKER_122: energy i mean as a business person under that regulation like what does that even mean i mean it

SPEAKER_94: basically means it means what you're not spreading david it means you're not spreading a protest in hong kong it means you're not talking about the uyghurs it means you're not talking about tiananmen square you're not creating social unrest this is a way for them to say you know positive energy means don't criticize xi jinping or the ccp or bring up topics that are in the no-fly zone like the uyghurs

SPEAKER_156: well they're they're they're gonna have content moderation guidelines yeah they're bringing it all under their control that's what it's about i mean these this is the type of thing that despite all of our

SPEAKER_122: problems makes me very happy to be an american yeah can you imagine i would i would say though

SPEAKER_59: that the first part of what i said about their regulations to me seem really intelligent and i

SPEAKER_54: think americans would want that and if american policy makers would actually just suspend disbelief for a second go to the chinese website meet nick we can put a link into the into the show notes of where the regulations were published and actually try to implement those laws i think we as americans

SPEAKER_275: we'd all want most of them except that one yeah well that's what the devil does they mix the lies with the truth in order to get you to be convinced to give up your freedoms friedberg what are your thoughts

SPEAKER_232: i'm getting increasingly convinced that this idea of like decentralized blockchain-based government governing might work in the 21st century i just feel like they're the you know we keep hearing more about the overreach and the ineptitude of centralized institutions like uh ccp and the u.s government and

SPEAKER_285: you know i'm not hearing anyone that says man you know this is a great well i we're seeing great

SPEAKER_59: progress no but freeberg i think i think the ccp is actually pretty good i i what they do we may not agree with them but i think they're pretty i agree with you i agree with you generally yeah

SPEAKER_232: but i do think it creates an incentive and a motivation also because if you don't agree with their their principles you know you're going to find yourself looking for an alternative so you know i don't know which this is probably not the right time or forum for this conversation we should probably do it on another show but we should talk about um some of the innovations uh blockchain innovations that that are taking place and jake i know you spent a lot of time on this as well but you know it'd be worth kind of talking about the notion that you know can you see um governing move

SPEAKER_285: to the blockchain um and what does society look like in maybe the 22nd century if this becomes a reality and how do we how does the world kind of evolve there well in the crypto world you would

SPEAKER_23: put in some effort you would have some skin in the game and you would because of your processing power

SPEAKER_94: your nodes on the network would get some votes it would be like in a democracy how much money you had or how much work you produced you had some sort of say which kind of sounds like ours i mean imagine

SPEAKER_285: if the u.s government instead of you know having some folks go to congress and say i want a trillion dollars and spend 25 years in afghanistan you know it was more of a distributed decision making process where data was available in real time metrics were used to make the decision and the folks that actually contributed dollars to the network ended up being the ones that made the decisions based on how many dollars they've contributed or based on some other principle of decision making

SPEAKER_323: that doesn't kind of aggregate institutional ineptitude which is kind of part of the issue we've seen here

SPEAKER_62: well so i think that brings up an interesting point which is you know when we talk about all the ways that we could have spent these trillions of dollars better than nation building here's

SPEAKER_75: here's the fundamental problem i agree with that i mean i wish we had spent the six trillion that we spent on nation building in the middle east i wish we had spent that at home domestically on our own priorities but here's the problem is i think what afghanistan is specifically the military industrial complex shows is how good these special interests get at extracting money from the system while

SPEAKER_178: providing so little value you know we spent so these contractors spent or we they they charge so much to basically deliver so little in afghanistan do you really think it's going to be much different for the trillion dollar the 1.2 trillion dollar infrastructure bill that's coming you know and if we created they're licking their lips they're licking yeah exactly the the the people the the groups who are going to get that money who are going to feast on that trillion dollars are people who their skill set is lobbying okay that is what they spend their time doing sorry no listen and if you are really good at lobbying why would you even waste your time trying to get good at delivering value you're not that's your business is lobbying well that is your value yeah that is your skill set exactly so this idea that we can basically spend a trillion dollars on some domestic innovation program the problem is it'll never go to the right people it'll never go to the innovators the best thing we could do is just not spend the money quite frankly so smaller government or how about how about just not a government that's uh 20 trillion dollars in debt i don't know how it's like smaller or small government to if we were to save six trillion would still be 14 trillion in debt

SPEAKER_308: it's not a small government i think a good jumping off point here might be the supreme court eviction

SPEAKER_93: moratorium uh in the supreme court not upholding it and what are your thoughts on that sax because it does

SPEAKER_94: relate to this never-ending free money train no repercussions of personal behavior and you know spending insanely forever it seems like we're never going to stop with the stimmies yeah the i think the

SPEAKER_75: stream court threw out uh biden's eviction moratorium as unconstitutional look i think it's great you know the the government should not be uh preventing uh eviction you know especially not the federal government i don't understand how this is supposed to work i mean all you do look i don't want to see anybody get evicted but the reality is you have to pay your rent and if and if there are

SPEAKER_178: groups of people who can't pay their rent and the government decides that uh that those people should be helped the right way to help them is to give them the money to pay their rent not just to tell landlords sorry like you can't collect right congress could give more stimulus to those people

SPEAKER_62: yes it's it's a taking it's a clear taking from landlords to say that oh your tenants don't have

SPEAKER_94: to pay you anymore how does that make sense well how do we unwind the free money train because there's 10 million job openings right now that are not getting filled and then we have unemployment starting to unwind or the bonus unemployment to unwind and then we have all this uh free rent concept or just you don't have to pay your rent at some point it feels like we have to let the free market come back and maybe people can't pay their rent so they go take one of the 10 million jobs i know that sounds

SPEAKER_253: cold-hearted no at some point you've talked about this before in california we have a labor shortage

SPEAKER_178: in california because we've basically run a controlled experiment in the uh ubi the universal basic income we're basically paying people not to work or paying them regardless of whether they work guess what they don't take jobs and so we actually have a labor shortage in california despite having high unemployment at some point the government's gonna have to say to people like look covet is not an excuse for shirking your adult responsibilities you know we all have a responsibility to go to work to pay our rent you know to pay our parking tickets and covet has been this excuse for suspending you know this this sort of normal life and the problem is covet's gonna be around forever it's like the cold or the flu it can't continue to be this excuse for people not working not paying rent not doing what they're

SPEAKER_54: supposed to be doing i think on top of that though i think jason maybe you want to talk about this i

SPEAKER_134: think on top of that we uh are amplifying that by taking people's agency away and we are prop 22 and prop 22 is a perfect example of that which you should talk about but when you put these two things together on the one hand you have a government that basically wants to subsidize uh opting out of the system and then you have a set of laws that if they're not unwound reinforce that dynamic and you

SPEAKER_59: put these two things together and folks just want to sit on the sidelines yeah let's get freeberg

SPEAKER_342: about freeber you want to talk about the prop 22 um supreme court decision etc

SPEAKER_232: yeah there was an appeals court appeals court um yeah an appeals court that uh overturned some elements of the uh california prop 22 which was a heavily lobbied california proposition lobbied by uber and lyft and other um businesses that have built effectively marketplaces for independent contractors like drivers and delivery people and so on the seiu which is a big employees union had um you know fought very hard to pass legislation in california that made it um effectively very difficult for people to operate as

SPEAKER_285: independent contractors and forcing companies like uber and lyft to treat them like full-time employees

SPEAKER_232: or to treat them like employees and so prop 22 was to counter the union-funded legislation um which basically provided more freedom and flexibility to workers where there weren't all these very arbitrary random rules that if you're a writer you can be an independent contractor but if you're a driver you

SPEAKER_285: cannot and you know all this nonsense that took place because the unions were trying to increase the

SPEAKER_232: scale and scope of their union base um and so prop 22 was passed in california after much spending and lobbying and it passed by a pretty decent margin and then this court ruling basically in in the appeals court overruled the constitutionality of some elements of prop 22 which brings into question whether that prop 22 is actually going to hold in california therefore are all these people who are drivers for uber delivery people for doordash and all these companies that are creating like thumbtack and you know all these companies that are creating marketplaces for individuals to have flexible work to go and work where they want when they want to find gigs to find you know short-term jobs to find um you know tasks and projects that they can run are they now going to be seeing that those marketplaces stop working because when you have to start treating those people like employees the flexibility and freedom that those marketplaces enable stalls out and and kind of you know as we're already seeing so it's super nasty and the implications are that we're now seeing um uh you know we're now facing once again this crisis of you know are basically lower income people um people that want to have flexible labor going to be restricted from having access to gig jobs um because the unions want to force everyone into a full-time job which you know as our friend bill gurley pointed out it's kind of like an archaic element of yeah the 19th and 20th century i mean this is like let's play a clip from uh bill gurley

SPEAKER_401: and here it is there's one big issue that i don't think is talked about enough which is you know that if you poll the drivers they're not looking for any changes they're really happy with the flexible work product if you look at the voters of california they stepped up and voted and made it very clear in a state that voted two to one you know in favor of biden they came down very strong 60 40 that they didn't want this to happen and there's one uh entity that's really been pushing this the whole time going all the way back to e5 and that's the seiu it is a single union but to call them a single union understates it because they are the granddaddy of special interest groups i i sent along some data maybe you can put on the screen um they spend more money lobbying than any other organization in our country and have for many many years they only represent two million members but oddly those members are in hospitality health care and government services they're not even in this industry so they're taking the dues from their members and using it to fight these battles because they want to expand their footprint what they're really after is putting four hundred dollars 420 which is the minimum member union fee for the two million they have they want to expand that to these drivers so they don't actually want to help them they want to add to their cost um but they're the they're the they're the one that's been pushing this the whole time and i i think it's worth just saying one thing

SPEAKER_232: on this which is um you know this is uh really kind of um a question not about california and prop 22 but it's a question about what is work and all the tech companies that are enabling a new form of work globally people don't want to have 40-hour week jobs people don't want to have to go sit at a desk all the time people want to have flexibility in their lives they want to have gigs technology enables us to quickly find short-term jobs short-term opportunities to work on things and make some money and figure out how we want to build our lives in a more flexible way figure out how workers want to build lives in a more flexible way across all industries and um it's really uh frankly um you know a a non-progressive policy to say that everyone has to be pigeonholed into working you know full-time 40-hour week labor jobs be employees and not have the flexibility of running their own business in their own way with the uh with their own time and choosing what they want to go do and work on um and so this sort of legislation and this sort of battle is a really important one for defining the future of work in the united states which will ultimately represent the

SPEAKER_275: future work globally and the craziness of all this david is that uber drivers lift drivers door desk drivers etc are getting paid a fortune now because there's a labor shortage and these ride

SPEAKER_23: sharing companies have given a minimum uh 21 an hour fee so i don't know exactly what's going on here but it seems to me like it's a union grab because everybody else who's affluent or rich real estate folks uh you know doctors whoever can be freelance but if you're a ride share driver or a freelance writer you don't get to be and it seems just incredibly unfair it is and you know one of the

SPEAKER_75: best things about covet i think for all of us is that we learned that we could do our jobs from anywhere we didn't have to go into an office we didn't have to work the standard whatever nine to six hours we could be anywhere we had flexibility and i mean i think it's one of the lasting consequences

SPEAKER_178: of covet that's actually been very positive for a lot of people and here you have the government basically trying to take away and prohibit freelance work flexible hours uh gig type jobs these are the sort of modern flexible working relationships that people want why are they getting rid of it because a lobbying pressure from the seiu which only has two million members it's not even a big union but they got lorena gonzalez in their back pocket she passed ab5 in california the people at california didn't want it remember 58 of californians said we don't want this so they overturned it in this ballot initiative and now you got this activist judge basically you know um inventing these specious grounds for overturning prop 22 which is what the people want so it's ridiculous and you know the common thread to me on this show that i've come to realize about american politics is just the degree of special interest corruption and you know people are used to thinking in terms of left versus right it's not there's a special interest corruption that pervades everything you've got this union that is destroying freelance work and flexible working relationships because of corruption because it benefits them you got defense contractors in afghanistan who are just looting looting the pentagon and the federal budget because it's in their interest you've got these special interests of both the right and the left this is the central problem in american politics and you know what they do to cover up the naked self-interest is they disguise it in a kind of woke virtue signaling so they'll start you know talking about you know how what they're doing is for the benefit of these

SPEAKER_94: drivers when the drivers don't even want it and to build on that i'd say you know my great realization from having this conversation with you all every week is that we are starting to propose a nanny state in which people have no agency even if they want to have agency over their life and career

SPEAKER_23: you are taking it away and then if there's no repercussions to people's behavior and they have no agency they become you know uh disenfranchised from society and why are they going to participate and then what kind of society do we have if people can't make their own choices and you see it also in you know uh accreditation laws and you see it where only rich people can invest and now you're seeing it with this freelancing where you know my dad would have loved to have an extra shift or two to make

SPEAKER_94: extra money and he's not allowed to 80 of drivers want flexibility they're willing to participate on

SPEAKER_145: things that ultimately um on things that they think matter but don't necessarily solve the core root

SPEAKER_134: cause problems their people right now in america i think are focused too much on symptoms meaning you know uh they want to fight for the right hashtags they want to fight for the right pronouns they want to make sure that you know this person gets cancelled for things that happened eight or ten years ago and i think what they don't understand is these are all symptoms and this is this is not what solves the problem right we have a water crisis in america we have a food impending food crisis as we shut off the water we have a climate crisis that's engulfing the entire nation we're still in the middle of a pandemic that we can't control we have an economic system that's fragile that's dependent on a country who's sometimes our friend and sometimes our foe in china these are huge transformational issues that we can't get organized around and so instead we spend our time at the edges on the symptoms and we think the symptoms are if we get the pronouns right everything's going to come together and everything's going to get fixed the looting will stop the graft will stop the corruption will stop and

SPEAKER_59: it turns out actually it emboldens those people to say hey wait a minute i'm tricking these people everything that i wanted to happen can happen let them focus on the pronouns while i continue to loot the american treasury for another trillion dollars that's where we are yeah and the perfect the perfect

SPEAKER_62: representation of that is gavin newsom he represents both of these trends he is one of the most corrupt

SPEAKER_75: governors we've ever had there were as soon as covet happened they suspended uh all sorts of um you

SPEAKER_178: know the the process for contracting so that his uh campaign contributors could get all these special contracts he cut a sweetheart deal to pg and e to absolve them of liability for all the fires they've been causing and on and on it goes the the 12 billion dollars to the homeless industrial complex and then he disguises it with all this woke virtue signaling and so you know i would just give a shout out to the recall campaign the election is on september 14th but the ballots have gone out if you want to send a message to the political class that this special interest corruption has got to

SPEAKER_327: stop let's cut the head off the snake here just vote to recall gavin newsom on question one

SPEAKER_280: period all right you guys want to end on uh jeff bezos uh let's let's let's talk about the ai bot first and then and then bezos all right so um if you haven't been watching boston dynamics uh tweeted a

SPEAKER_94: video which will play right now as i talk over it and um it's basically they're robots which have been picking up heavy objects and walking around doing parkour if you don't know what parkour is it's

SPEAKER_275: basically people jumping off the side of objects and flipping and doing balance beams and vaulting

SPEAKER_39: themselves all around it is basically dancing in france yeah but from heights and jumping over

SPEAKER_87: things as well and the french are like parkour experts yeah i mean it's i think uh parkour is

SPEAKER_420: french for jumping uh i made that up but if you look at the parkour uh no uh absolutely uh i have

SPEAKER_169: never seen him do we'll show that video i have seen him so drunk that he's on the floor but never seen

SPEAKER_422: him do parkour but don't get in the way of sacks and a bottle of drc this robot looks more dexterous

SPEAKER_39: than any of the terminators we saw in the films and then adding to that oh if you didn't know boston

SPEAKER_94: dynamics got bought by google i'm sure freeberg has some inside information on that and then they

SPEAKER_204: uh got sold again softbank had bought them and now they uh are owned by uh hyundai the south korean

SPEAKER_94: hyundai the south korean automaker because apparently the softies at google didn't want to be involved in uh government contracting with robots ie making soldiers of the future which obviously i don't

SPEAKER_430: know the chinese have i wouldn't characterize the whole story like that i mean remember like

SPEAKER_232: well google bought boston dynamics in 2013 and remember boston dynamics have been around for over a decade prior to that they spun out of mit like in the 90s i think um and they were had always been working on you know advanced neural nets being applied to kind of you know automation systems so you could get things to mimic real life um and the idea at google this was when they had set up google x and were starting to kind of do a lot of this um you know moonshot type tech tech investing as a separate entity outside of the core google and it was like leveraging their cash flow to start new projects the idea was let's you know build this into kind of a next-gen robotics platform they had

SPEAKER_285: andy rubin who previously started and ran android um company was called danger google bought it turned into android um run the or run the unit and they made several other acquisitions they rolled them all up into this kind of robotics platform they had spent i think 400 million on boston dynamics and

SPEAKER_232: hundreds of millions more on these other companies um and ultimately i think the challenge was less about like you know who does or doesn't want to do contracts with us but it was more about the fundamental question that is still the question mark today which is do we really need general purpose automation or do we need special purpose automation um for industries for customers right where do you find product market fit do people really need a robot that does parkour or do they need an automation system that can lift boxes and pack and place things or an automation system that can move things from point a to point b and so if you're solving for a customer's problem you typically find that the special purpose automation solution is a more elegant cheaper solution that you can get to market right away like building an automated little truck that moves things around or building a machine that lifts

SPEAKER_410: and puts boxes in the right place parallel the discussion between narrow ai and general correct and

SPEAKER_232: this is exactly the same question jacal is like you know is um you know is general uh purpose ai really what the market needs or are there specific applications of neural network or machine learning technologies that allow us to solve for the problems that customers have without needing to replicate the human being so when you're lifting boxes you don't necessarily need all the other things that humans have right you don't need to mimic a human when you're moving a package you don't necessarily need to have four legs to do it you can have it on four wheels and just have a simple system that moves it around and so you know i think softbank you know masa's son had this whole belief with vision fund one when he raised the hundred some odd billion dollars that you know the singularity where machines were going to be smarter and better than humans in every way intelligence and dexterity and all these things were about was about to kind of we're about to pass that moment and this was part of that core thesis he had which is this is going to be the robotics company and i think as we've seen they can mimic parkour but they can't do all the other things humans can do and if you're you know trying to get a machine to do something that a customer needs it's really not

SPEAKER_435: parkour let's be honest they can't even walk a dog because they wouldn't know how to deal with the edge

SPEAKER_232: cases uh if the dog had diarrhea and so i think there's core ip at boston dynamics that's certainly critically valuable for businesses that are in special purpose automation which hyundai is there's going to be a great set of applications for leveraging that ip into some of the existing

SPEAKER_93: product lines and customers that they serve so in related in a related story elon then uh revealed the tesla bot plans at his ai day he's in a couple of his ai days and i think they're primarily designed

SPEAKER_94: um to get ai talent which is some of the hardest developers to find in the world um and they said that their tesla bot will weigh 125 pounds 5 8 so i'll be a half inch taller than it um but it will weigh significantly less than me and it will move up up to five miles per hour and can carry 45 pounds uh elon said the reason he was doing that is so a human can easily overtake it in case it becomes sentient which was quite entertaining uh chamath you think this is what are the chances elon has a robot like this and um it's operating the real world i saw a bunch of journalists dunking on him that this would

SPEAKER_93: never ever happen which is kind of hard to believe when there's a million teslas on the road yeah no

SPEAKER_72: comment and i think uh it's awesome oh okay can't comment all right leave it at that uh sacks you have

David Sacks: any comments on this um i it was you worked with elon at paypal yeah i thought it was a little bit of a surprise that he was working on a robot um but uh you know obviously this has been an interest of his he's talked a lot about it and so it kind of makes sense uh it's just another innovative thing he's doing should we talk about elon versus bezos on the space yeah well i just wanted to let people know

SPEAKER_23: by the way the robot going at five miles an hour it's not as outlandish as i think some of the journalists and idiots out there who don't build anything in the world who were kind of dunking on him

SPEAKER_94: like we're saying if you think about those cars going 65 75 85 miles an hour on the road processing the world doing a neural network machine learning on the fly to figure out where the car should go

SPEAKER_23: a robot going five miles an hour is an easier task i think all those people dunking on him should have

SPEAKER_145: just taken a step back and actually ask the question am i just being really insecure right now and

SPEAKER_134: if so why am i making fun of this guy who just seems to be you know firing on all cylinders and

SPEAKER_59: maybe it's maybe it's me maybe you know maybe maybe maybe i'm writing this article out of my own insecurity maybe i'm feeling a little impotent you know and also to to dunk on a guy for the version

SPEAKER_75: one or even the version 0.1 of a product is so ridiculous i mean i remember the version zero of tesla now look at the company i mean you know it's about iterating that's how you get to products so it's just so stupid and short term and by the way on the current product capabilities

SPEAKER_86: and his his his style of doing these things i think makes a ton of sense when when you know he started

SPEAKER_145: with starlink it was the same reaction people were dunking dunking dunking too slow too expensive not

SPEAKER_59: going to work and what you find through these events are really technical people building companies that could help him want to be a part of the mission right and so you know for whatever it's

SPEAKER_134: worth it's like i think starlink's going to be a real thing i think this is probably going to be a real thing i think great companies will get absorbed into this these efforts i think uh i think it's great and i really think the people that are just so low like there's like this loathing going on i

SPEAKER_366: just don't understand what do you think will differentiate the um opportunity for success

SPEAKER_232: with larry page owning and running um boston dynamics then masa owning and running boston dynamics and then elon trying to take on the same project from scratch you know why were these other two kind of well capitalized influential businesses that have attract great partners not been able to turn boston dynamics into kind of a successful business but but you guys believe elon will if i

SPEAKER_134: had to just categorize them i would say uh larry is absent and is sitting on a hundred billion dollar fortune with no idea what to do um i think on one of seven islands yeah i mean he's just absent so he's irrelevant um i don't think anybody knows what the fuck he looks like um i mean we do uh but uh you know he's frittered away enormous potential i think um i think masa is a master capital allocator but not an

SPEAKER_145: engineer and i think elon is the most important technical product and business mind of our lifetime

SPEAKER_341: i think the answer is even simpler he's the customer of the robot so he understands what the spec should

SPEAKER_23: be because he has so many robots working in the factories so he's going to buy the first thousand to go colonize mars or work at a space station to build shit in space and he's going to have them working in the tesla factory and for the boring company carrying rocks out of tongues he's the customer of course he knows and masa wasn't the customer masa was looking to increase uh whatever

SPEAKER_59: money but it's also it's also skill set like masa of course is an incredible visionary and investor but he's not going to be the guy in the engine room making the robot larry now in fairness to larry

SPEAKER_264: page he could be that good and there was a moment in time where larry was that good and frankly better than elon uh but that window has closed and it's well passed and now you know it's kind

SPEAKER_134: of like the player that just keeps getting better and better i think that's elon musk go ahead sex

SPEAKER_62: your thoughts i mean nothing to add to that i think you both make great points i mean the amazing thing is that elon is still working so hard doubling down coming with new ideas new initiatives i mean

SPEAKER_75: it's working harder than ever when most people are you know doing most people would do what larry did

SPEAKER_304: you know go buy an island or seven and yours and hang out you know yeah all right bezos is lost his way

SPEAKER_93: um and he left his position as ceo of amazon to focus on blue origin and then he um sued nasa over the moon program accusing nasa of wrongly evaluate its lunar lander proposal giving all the funds to

SPEAKER_94: spacex he then did a series of like infographics talking about how terrible spacex's plans were um this lawsuit has delayed spacex's work on the project according to the verge i don't know if that's true or not amazon urged the fcc to dismiss the newly submitted plans for spacex to launch

SPEAKER_93: another cluster of satellites uh to power starlink and uh elon tweeted turns out bezos retired in order to pursue a full-time job filing lawsuits against spacex uh which is hilarious um what how sad is this

SPEAKER_134: that it's a huge miscalculation in the following way which is that in order for jeff to achieve his ambitions he needs deeply technical people and this is the simplest way to basically turn them off because this is not what technical people do what are technical people do we don't we don't take our toys and run from the sandbox crying like a we stay there and we keep iterating trying to make things work

SPEAKER_75: yeah we don't act like patent trolls i have a new i have a new slogan for you jacal go ahead

SPEAKER_464: winners do and losers sue winners do and losers sue okay folks there you have it it's the all in

SPEAKER_467: podcast we're back we're back from a big vacation make it happen yeah make the banger make a banger

SPEAKER_469: all right everybody what's your freeberg you have any thoughts on these uh on the lawsuits i feel

SPEAKER_285: bad for bezos i feel like he's just getting so beat up on this shit it's um it's honestly it's a little disappointing because i think he's got all the right intentions he's an incredible engineer obviously an incredible operator i'd love to see him and elon succeed in the work they're trying to do as well as all the other startups that are pursuing this i am concerned about frankly the lack of commercial readiness for this industry i feel like in terms of the hype cycle we're at that early point where the the investment dollars and the number of companies exceeds the market demand and therefore there's this um fight over the one or two customers which is basically nasa and the federal government and it's creating this really nasty set of circumstances because that's where the money comes from that's where the customers are right now and so they're all fighting over one or two

SPEAKER_232: customers and you know elon filed suits um against the you know federal agencies when he lost contracts no no he did that when they no bid them i get it i get it and slightly different i get it but still like i think at the end of the day um you know bezos is willing to put his money where his mouth is he's offered to put up a billion dollars or more to fund this i'd love to see multiple uh companies simultaneously going to the moon multiple companies simultaneously going to mars but um rather than have you know a single contract with with one customer um or have you know private industry figure out ways to make money from this and fund it uh the challenge is just

SPEAKER_285: it's another product market fit question right the market is one customer today

SPEAKER_303: um yeah but bezos is almost 60 years old he's got 150 200 billion dollars it's going to cost him two

SPEAKER_23: or three billion dollars one two three percent of his net worth to do all this just do it bezos and stop crying and you're right he may end up doing that yeah but the problem is he's losing

SPEAKER_257: a competitor no but he's losing the human capital that's required so there was a huge there was a

SPEAKER_86: huge uh little press cycle about uh this one person who was like the the leader of the of the lander

SPEAKER_134: project who just quit and went to spacex my point is other engineers don't want to see that this is

SPEAKER_430: the way to win he's got he's got to crawl out of that hole now yeah build iterate and solve

SPEAKER_232: build iterate solve it certainly seems the case that his um pr stunt with shooting himself into space didn't do him any favors either you know it's almost like everyone sees the great work elon does when he does these pr events and he gets all this attention and publicity and gets positive press and accolades and then bezos does them and he's like oh he has no besties there's no bestie

SPEAKER_90: taking bezos aside he's bestie list he needs no he may have besties but they're not they're not

SPEAKER_468: doing the job that other besties do for other people if they're yes men and women and they're not being true besties they need to tell him when he's got something that's a blind spot he needs a real best spot here is he was dunking on richard branson and being like oh you didn't go to the

SPEAKER_487: right height here's an infographic stop with the fucking intro graphics bezos what are you 12 years old and you're like going to the teacher with like a drawing like i i should technically get an a plus and i should be singing the solo for the choir practice and like some other person is like got the solo

SPEAKER_232: you get the fucking solo next year bezos bezos offered you a huge um consulting fee jay cal would

SPEAKER_491: you be his bestie um consigliere for sure for sure by the way i hired i i hired this nut

SPEAKER_86: he flies back with me i mean he literally ate everything on the plane and then what are you talking about and then hold on let me finish you were eating tiramisu let me finish you went let me finish he said to me chmoth you have some great toiletries in the back i said yeah sure you know

SPEAKER_69: there's marvis there's great toothbrushes and then out of his pocket he pulled some scope bottles that he had more in my bag i didn't have to buy scope until 2022 i i was shocked it's the real scope this

SPEAKER_504: motherfucker was looting alluded looting i looted all your lactate we all take advantage of cp oh my god

SPEAKER_69: this this other guy this motherfucker friedberg once was so buried he got so mad he grabbed all the lactate in my you know a little medicine cabinet and ran out then came back he was angry and he was like i'm so angry because he had lost a big pot right during poker then he took all the pistachios

SPEAKER_507: and shoved them in his pocket it's like it's like an afghan warlord

SPEAKER_23: he's like it i lost 10 dimes i'm gonna get back 37 dollars in oh my god so sad so sad all right i'll

SPEAKER_317: see you wait you want me to prepare the house you want me to prepare the the the yeah i think so

SPEAKER_516: i think yeah i think so i think so that'd be awesome if you could do that oh my god i'll bring some tests some binax tests too yeah i mean just as an aside bill gurley was talking about this we talked

SPEAKER_23: about this early in the pandemic why don't we have one dollar test friedberg oh my god why does

SPEAKER_436: everybody not have a hundred tests everywhere binax now tests are literally lateral flow strips they cost pennies to make it's how much it cost to buy 20 bucks why is it not a dollar why couldn't biden or

SPEAKER_516: trump get that done is it some grift graft greed yeah you should get mike on to talk about this he's uh

SPEAKER_436: the uh the guy to talk about it but um i mean if people were taking those every day we could i think

SPEAKER_232: you guys may remember this i tweeted about this over a year ago it's like last april where we could actually print these antigen tests for pennies in the us i mean when we had that like whole emergency authority thing and we were making masks and liquid oxygen tanks and all this we should have been printing antigen tests on strips of paper we have the facilities in the us to do it and we could have made you know 100 billion 50 cent tests um and made them just uh free and available to schools to workplaces to everything it's absolutely insane people can't be freelance

SPEAKER_94: riders or driving uber for two hours a day in california exactly we can we can mandate that but we can't mandate a 25 cent 50 cent test and put them in everybody's mailboxes i'm on fire now

SPEAKER_526: it's stupid everything is so dumb everybody's a grifter in this government incompetent assholes

SPEAKER_86: i would like to i would like to vote news i would like to go to uh war with uh fiji because it's

SPEAKER_493: beautiful um occupy fiji i'd like an island and i think that fiji probably has a lot of them well

SPEAKER_530: fiji is not respecting pronouns just because i think it's a little closer yeah um yeah we could go there

SPEAKER_134: and spread pronouns um also i'd like to go to war with iceland but only in the summertime because i hear

SPEAKER_535: it's beautiful i'm going to war with tuscany uh over the gelato i'm going to war with florence over

SPEAKER_537: gelato i'm going to occupy tuscany country for the pizza and the pasta i'm occupying tuscany

SPEAKER_00: you'll need to build a bagram in all these places just to accommodate all the private jets they're

SPEAKER_32: going to come in i mean but just in closing let's just let's just say thank you to the amazing people

SPEAKER_245: of italy for having what an incredible greatest country for adults to go on vacation in what an

SPEAKER_487: incredible country florence is amazing tuscany is outrageous rome is beautiful venice is incredible

SPEAKER_128: everything is delightful i love you i love you italy i love you so much and i'll be back next year

SPEAKER_548: all right we'll see you all next time i'll see you next time on the all in podcast bye bye

SPEAKER_559: david sacks you come to me from your boat in sicily on my daughter's wedding day

SPEAKER_575: sacks you come to me and you ask me not to interrupt you so that henry bellicaster can make a clean cut

SPEAKER_577: of your speech well you can stop by acting like a man david sacks i gotta interrupt it on the podcast oh you didn't let me finish my dog you wanted this part

SPEAKER_575: you wanted this part on this podcast who's the director who's the producer i'll get you this part

SPEAKER_580: but someday sacks i'm gonna ask you for a favor sacks i'm gonna ask you for an allocation in all in in your call-in app i'm gonna ask you to lead the series b and on that day i expect evaluation because measure it with what i've done for you today okay david sacks

SPEAKER_111: that's a pretty good bit look at uh don cannoli over here