SPEAKER_00: okay everybody we got some cool news for you roblox's earnings are out and we're going to do a new segment today we live in the future and we're going to let you know about a cool new startup that is uh doing basically speeder bikes or spinners from blade runner very cool new technology

SPEAKER_01: in the veto space got some exciting video there too if you watch the youtube channel after that ryan engel is with us he is the ceo and founder of golf plus you might remember a few weeks ago i tweeted about oculus and the try oh my goodbye people just absolutely trying it absolutely loving it and then never using it again because it's too bulky and maybe it's just too intense for casual gamers but hardcore gamers still prefer pc as well in that thread ryan had a really considered response so we decided to have him on the show and golf plus makes an amazing vr game uh for oculus called pro putt by top golf so go check that out and we talk about all the issues in ar versus vr how much time people are actually going to want to spend in vr with these heavy clunky headsets when we're going to get the ar headsets that are just like putting on a pair of sunglasses and what companies are developing the best headsets maybe when apple's headset will come out it's a really deep dive into the vr versus ar debate and the entire metaverse space

SPEAKER_02: and he is really credible because he's working in it every day really appreciated having him on the

SPEAKER_04: episode so let's get to it this week in startups is brought to you by our crowd helps you invest early in pre-ipo companies alongside professional vcs if you're interested in investing you can join our crowd for free at o-u-r-c-r-o-w-d dot com slash twist silicon valley bank for over 35 years silicon valley bank has been providing banking and financial solutions for every stage of the startup journey learn more at svb dot com slash twist and disruptive advertising sign up for a free digital marketing audit at disruptive advertising dot com slash twist plus if you go into business with disruptive you'll receive a 250 gift card and a free friday to sunday ski trip in utah okay roblox reported a huge

SPEAKER_01: quarter in q3 doubling revenue year over year to 509 million dollars full disclosure my wife bought i don't know how much but she bought a bunch of roblox because she believed in it and uh i think she got in at the ipo which was like 45 or 50 bucks so uh i guess i have a bias here towards this stock not really but uh i'm happy for her that she paid that bet she's got you know she made the bitcoin bet too at a hundred dollars so i give my wife a lot of credit um their uh shares jumped 30 percent in after hours trading it's now at 100 bucks a share that's a 13 billion dollar increase in their market cap crazy days right now folks 57 billion dollar market cap big takeaways um roblox users are insanely

SPEAKER_00: engaged some back of the envelope math here because it's kind of hard to understand but based on our analysis the number of hours people are engaged in this platform is bonkers they had 11.2 billion hours up 28 year over year now 11.2 billion hours in a 90-day quarter right and you divide that by 47

SPEAKER_01: million daily active users you get an average of 236 hours per user in q3 again 90 days if people use

SPEAKER_00: the service for 60 days that would be four hours a day if they did it every single day it would be 2.6 hours a day that's a lot of time on a platform um i i am stunned by that but in some ways not i mean if

SPEAKER_01: you look at people who are addicted to twitter they're on there for more than an hour or two a day so i'm not sure if you know this back of the envelope math works out but uh you know in terms of there's developers on the platform and people building stuff if you don't know uh roblox is a video game platform where developers can create games inside of the app they went public by a direct listing on march 10th they sell an in-game currency called uh robux uh which allows people to buy games and outfits you know all that kind of stuff that people are talking about now with nfts being um you know so special that you could actually take your characters abilities or outfits and move them from one game to another that isn't happening yet but that is the promise of this new metaverse if you think about the metaverse not as a vr or ar headset just as a 3d world uh that would be represented on a 2d monitor they also have something called roblox premium which is a monthly subscription and uh creators and developers on roblox can earn money and they earned 130 million in q3 which is a 52 percent year of a year roblox takes 30 just like apple uh and so this is pretty uh staggering in terms

SPEAKER_02: of the earnings for these games and these platforms revenue of 509 million that's a that's a lot of money when you think about it um and these have to be incredibly incredibly high margin businesses total bookings uh which includes some deferred revenue with 637 million but that means when you hear

SPEAKER_01: deferred revenue somebody might buy the year in advance so they might have more cash coming in a quarter and then they will do something called uh accrual based accounting where you spread those payments out and you get to get credit for them each month or quarter uh depending on um how you set it up they lost 74 million uh that's up 55 percent year over year i'm not sure what the total cost is here for this business they have 1400 employees and that's up 66 percent year over year revenue per employee for q through was about 355k so i guess they have a they have a lot of employees to run this business you got to think they could run this business with half as many employees and it would be

SPEAKER_02: printing money they're obviously in investment mode 80 of their employees are either engineering or

SPEAKER_01: product focused according to roblox if you look at their dows 47 million uh that's up 31 percent year over year just that just a hair above 47 million their average booking per daily active users is

SPEAKER_13: 13.49 that's down your over year in other words if you have um you know 500 million uh in revenue in the quarter and you have almost 50 million folks just over 10 per user per quarter which means per year

SPEAKER_01: we're talking about you know close to uh 50 bucks a year pretty amazing when you think about it that is some serious revenue and that's year after year these folks are gonna stick around so i am much more uh bullish on roblox when we compared it i thought it was more of a hit based business but this developer ecosystem is obviously starting to thrive and when you see revenue double like that uh clearly i underestimated the impact of those network effects i know fortnite has over a hundred million people using it every month so there does seem to be this ability to hit a hundred million people using a

SPEAKER_17: platform a quarter so this could definitely double all right and looking at the wikipedia there is a

SPEAKER_01: page you can look it up yourself a list of most played video games by player count uh player unknowns battleground and crossfire two free-to-play games both owned by tents that have over a billion users dungeon fighter 700 million uh users as of may 2020 just looking down this list minecraft 600 million uh users as of november 2020 that's pretty amazing pacman doodle i've never heard of this uh the pacman doodle from google i guess uh 500 million peak daily players in may of 2020 candy crush saga hit 500 million players so clearly you know you can get to hundreds of millions so if we look at roblox here they had 202 million peak monthly uh players according to wikipedia on april 2021 the number we gave you before 47 million is their daily active users obviously you get a much bigger number by the people who don't play every day i wonder if that means they could double that triple it i mean it's possible i guess the upper limit here seems to be a billion so if we gave them credit for hitting in between those two numbers 200 and a billion uh that would be plus 400 million maybe they get to 600 million monthly which means they could triple uh their revenue so it does seem like they're on the trajectory to to do something similar to that and get to minecraft's number which is 600 million that to me would seem to be a pretty amazing run and that means the stock uh would be triple or the revenue would triple and that seems plausible to me i don't know where the natural audience limit is or if they would have to you know get more people into uh video games for this to to go beyond that there seems to be a natural audience for these and another thing to consider in all of this is there could be other business model innovations that occur that generate more revenue obviously they're selling in-game items they also have a premium subscription and if they embraced nfts uh or a marketplace where people could trade their goods that could give them a little bit a lift and i wonder if roblox users when they grow up if there's going to be other games that they would want to play i know a lot of roblox players came from the minecraft ecosystem and then once you move from one to the other i'm not sure if you go backwards that'd be an interesting question uh if we if somebody could find the data on that but congratulations to the roblox team

SPEAKER_24: it's time for another our crowd deal of the week right now you can join our crowds investment in intellect according to the deal memo intellect's transportation innovation could save the airline industry three billion dollars a year intellect uses machine learning to improve safety recognize hazards and reduce delays and they're already being used at some major international airports and these airports serve over 100 million passengers annually according to the deal memo we know that all over the world of tech companies are innovating and driving returns for investors well our crowds team analyzes many of these companies across the entire global private market then they select companies with the greatest growth potential and bring them to you from personalized medicine to cyber security to robotics one of my favorites to quantum computing and more in state-of-the-art labs startup barrages and anywhere in between our crowd identifies innovators so that you can invest when growth potential is greatest which is early if you're an accredited investor you can join our crowd for free at orcrowd.com twist and review the current deals there is no payment involved until you decide to invest that's ourcrowd.com twist to sign up for free okay now we're bringing back an old segment

SPEAKER_01: called we live in the future w-l-i-t-f not w-t-f w-l-i-t-f we live in the future and so every week or two

SPEAKER_02: we're going to talk about things that will hopefully blow your mind or things we've been talking about in science fiction that are becoming reality and the one that's had me absolutely captivated for some

SPEAKER_01: time now is veto aircraft vertical takeoff and landing aircraft and we just have an incredible video here to watch this is from a company called jetson one and they make an electronic veto and here we have

SPEAKER_02: uh the jetson one flying around they released this video recently and the pilot is the co-founder and cto uh tomash patan he stated the mission on their website we intend to make everyone a pilot and uh here are some specs for their veto it's 190 pounds that is light and it can support a pilot weight of up to 210 pounds so i am safely under that since i lost 20 pounds this year it includes eight motors

SPEAKER_01: and the company claims it can fly safely with the loss of one motor and so that is one of the amazing things about vtols when you think about a drone if you're not watching this incredible science fiction that looks like something out of um blade runner and the spinners in blade runner or maybe a star wars film with speeder bikes what's amazing about vtols when compared to a helicopter if you think about just the the drones that your family might have flown on some holiday when somebody buys one uses it and then puts it away and never uses it again those things have you know maybe eight rotors and if one of them goes down the software knows that that one's down it stops spinning and it just recalibrates the other ones to automatically uh save the drone and help it land properly etc so that's going to be one of the great things about vtols they are going to be much safer i believe than

SPEAKER_35: helicopters helicopters helicopters have yeah a lot of downside they're very complicated to fly they

SPEAKER_01: obviously don't have eight motors rotors i think most of them have redundant and have two the max speed of this uh vtol is 63 miles an hour current flight time 20 minutes so that's a very short flight time these are going to be toys for a while think of them like wave runners or you know those kind of devices um in terms of utilization they're not going to be for commutes right now this thing's 10 by 7 uh in terms of feet and uh it uses high discharge lithium ion batteries includes a three axis joystick and lidar sensors that will monitor the terrain and obstacles total price 92k you can put down a deposit for 22k i'm tempted to do that although i wouldn't want to be part of the first group of people to own these it'll arrive 50 assembled and it's up to the owner to assemble the other 50 i wonder if that's because this is going to be some sort of a kit or that's their business model there'll be other versions of this obviously we saw joe be go public regulations are going to have to be worked out for this to operate in the united states on something other than private land clearly they're on a private course here are you gonna need a pilot's license probably not uh these things were probably automated when they get out to the mass consumers for this one yeah they're gonna have to come up with some sort of since you are controlling it uh pilot's license for it and um i wonder if it'll have to be a certain speed you know when you drive an e-bike i think the max speed of an e-bike is 30 miles per hour 25 for a motorcycle license i think you can have up to 34 cc don't quote me on that in like 35 40 miles an hour and then above that you have to uh get a motorcycle license so uh a may 2020 article uh in aviation airport development law.com claim the regulation of vetoes by the faa is severely lagging and so this will come up but if an individual builds at least 51 of an aircraft they can register a plane in the faa's experimental or amateur built category and so that sounds to me like what's going on here is that the jetson one might fall into that experimental or amateur built category that to

SPEAKER_02: me is something that has never ever been of interest like being a test pilot i mean that's how john denver tragically died i think he was operating like an experimental plane my lord that is a high level of danger is to do experimental planes or ones that you built yourself absolutely no interest in

SPEAKER_01: that but i have a lot of interest in these retos because i think they could be safer ultimately than driving in a city or driving on the highway driving on the highway it's a lot of things to crash into driving in the air there's not going to be a lot of things to crash into and these can easily land themselves if there's a problem they can land on water very easily they're not going to be 10 20 000 feet in the air they're going to be a thousand feet they're going to be flying over water if there's a problem they probably would be able to withstand it and certainly if there's a malfunction they do have the ability to land gracefully as you've probably seen with um you know various tests of these things certainly more gracefully than a helicopter or a plane spinning out of control now the the battery technology is going to have to take a lot more time but we saw that with teslas

SPEAKER_02: you know the roadster had i think 190 mile rating realistically you got over 100 maybe 120.

SPEAKER_01: so we'll see these um i think arrive faster than we thought in fact i think in some cities we'll see these as a commuting option before we're going to see self-driving without a drive without a steering

SPEAKER_24: wheel so let me say that again it's completely possible that in a city like um san francisco the

SPEAKER_01: bay area or sydney or melbourne or rhode island anywhere that's on a bay uh new york city comes to mind as well with the hudson and the east river these are going to be great for flying over the water why you're not going to have to worry about buildings or landing on people whereas um you know if this was flying over a city like los angeles kind of not the ideal place like los angeles would be the worst place for this you got these things flying everywhere they start falling out of the sky they land on people god forbid somebody dies you have people in the plane dying and people on the ground dying or people in the veto dying so california is going to be the worst place for it but a bay area with islands perfect perfect for these in fact you could see these in new york city doing absolutely phenomenal just going to jfk you just go right along the hudson going out to coney island you know flying into manhattan these things could wind up being everywhere in fact i think that one possibility we'll see is some of these tall buildings in manhattan and and other cities will have you know a couple of floors where they'll fly into and so these will be able to very easily navigate you know some 30-foot landing platform in a high rise and then if you live in the high rise you could go down to the whatever you know up or down to the 80th floor let's say get in one of these it hovers it flies out over the city takes you to the airport you come home from the airport boom it's going to be a brave new world folks and these are the real deal in 2023 they're going to deliver 21 units they claim and that's pretty amazing the 2023 deposit locations included hawaii san francisco alabama florida finland the netherlands germany and more joby aviation j-o-b-y went public via spac and they've been trading under that ticker

SPEAKER_02: symbol j-o-b-y currently valued almost 6 billion 5.7 billion and they expect their commercial operations to start in 2024 reed hoffman helped take joe be public through his spac i think that's what mark

SPEAKER_01: pinkis reinvent technology uh partners and reed spoke with me on uh about joe be on angel episode uh six from season five if you want to check that out now there's a chinese company called ehang e-h-a-n-g and uh they're building autonomous aerial vehicles basically vtols that fly themselves the videos are amazing i've been watching these videos and i'll throw one up on the screen here if you don't watch on youtube youtube.com this weekend they went public in december of 2019 they want to do automated flying taxis uh but they were accused of fraud by wolfpack research in february of 2021 wolfpack research is an activist short seller uh and they kept i just love how they add these

SPEAKER_00: activist short sellers name their companies we have wolfpack research you probably remember hindenburg research i believe they did nicola and then there was scorpion capital recently so wolfpack scorpion hindenburg are online one you're in trouble let me just say that hello sir we have

SPEAKER_44: wolfpack research on line one scorpion capital online too and uh hindenburg research is in the

SPEAKER_00: lobby you're done they concluded uh wolfpack that is that ehang's largest customer is fake and also a pre-ipo investor looking to push up their share price again in china the rules are uh let's just say very fluid uh they reference filings and reports which showed that the sham company

SPEAKER_01: was established only nine days before it signed a 65 million dollar contract with ehang again i have no idea of knowing if this accusation by wolf pack is true i'm just relaying it here um after the report was released ehang stock dropped from 124 dollars a share to 21 dollars a share and they're at about 25 now a share which is a 1.4 billion market cap so i am pretty excited about all

SPEAKER_24: of these and i think that this is the real deal putting ehang aside the the ehang develop the some

SPEAKER_00: of these ehang videos though i i when i first saw them i thought they looked fake like i thought they were cgi and i still look at them and go is this real or not and it makes you wonder if they're like

SPEAKER_01: uh actually use computer uh technology to in some way fake these uh flights but i don't think so the videos do look real from ehang so that would be something i would want to know like if the business was absolutely corrupt and they were doing this self-dealing and making companies up i wonder if the technology is real and the company is fake and the business contracts are fake but the tech's real because clearly other people are making this work and it is going to be awesome so just a little we live in the future uh segment for you if you have an idea for a we live in the future segment just email

SPEAKER_49: producers at thisweekinstartups.com it's a long domain name but it's worth it you get all three

SPEAKER_50: producers on the line okay let's go on to our interview this week in startups is brought to you by

SPEAKER_24: silicon valley bank what's next what if are we ready now what these are the questions that can keep founders up at night and no one understands this quite like silicon valley bank for over 35 years silicon valley bank has helped thousands of high growth companies by providing scalable financial solutions along with insights and expertise that many other banks just can't from healthcare to hardware software to infrastructure svb works with companies across the innovation landscape at all stages of the journey anticipating their needs even before they do and by providing access to insights and in-depth reports svb can help you make more informed decisions and assist in turning your great ideas into a great business which could be why 50 of us-based venture-backed tech and life science companies bank with svb learn more at svb.com twist silicon valley bank built for what's next okay everybody

SPEAKER_00: you may have seen a tweet i did a couple of weeks ago uh at twitter.com jason where i talked about how people who i know who buy oculus especially people who are into video games like hardcore pc gamers console gamers they buy try and then say goodbye to their oculus now this tweaked a bunch of people including farmer lucky who started liking the people who started dunking on me and telling me i'm wrong and it created kind of a discussion my point in all of this was my personal experience the oculus is so complicated and um i don't like not being able to see the real world i'm not a fan of vr exactly but i did love beat saber i will say that and i am super impressed with the technology but my tweet was intended strictly to look at this phenomenon of people buying them and putting them on the shelf

SPEAKER_56: and it made me wonder out loud where does vr sit in the gameplay or the options amongst people who play video games and i thought casual gamers people who play like ipad games like bejeweled or some you know card game or chess like it's not for them and then hardcore gamers who are playing you know fortnight it's not for them so who is it for and the most considered response i got uh was from a guy named ryan engel and what he does is he makes a golf simulator uh called golf plus and it was such a compelling response that i thought he should just come on the pod and we should talk about it so welcome

SPEAKER_58: to the program ryan engel yeah thanks for having me i appreciate the the discourse and uh i think i think

SPEAKER_61: you're coming from a smart spot i mean vr still has to establish itself great so you've been working

SPEAKER_24: on making this vr golf simulator since 2018 uh you can go see it at pro putt if you would like to uh visit the website if you want to follow ryan on the twitter always a good idea when we have a founder to go follow them on twitter because you can continue the conversation with them yourself it's uh r e n g l e

Chamath Palihapitiya: 8 20. and i'm assuming 820 is an area code somewhere like you're out of the 20. it's uh it's even better it's my birthday oh well happy birthday in a while on august 20th yeah uh all right so you saw my tweet

SPEAKER_24: you slid in you got a good reply in there and you said you're seeing a large number of people who are addicted and your metrics are different than what i was talking about so what is true about what i said and

SPEAKER_58: then what was wrong with what i said educate me okay so i think you know i think your tweet was right in a lot of cases i think a lot of people buy vr because they are looking to see what the future is like and they put it on and you know maybe they're not gamers maybe they don't play many games maybe they only play certain types of games and you know they try beat saber they try a few things and they say okay that was interesting but i'm kind of you know this isn't really for me and what we found is that our numbers show that a a strong portion of our players who do play and and get past a certain point stick around and they keep playing and in our case we have a golf game so our demographic is a little bit different than the average vr demographic that oculus shares uh we we lean a little bit older which is pretty interesting and you know we we've got quite a few players that are over 60 that play almost daily uh including my dad who i bought the headset for i asked him to try my game you know just because he's my dad he's never been a gamer and he doesn't even play golf anymore but he used to and he plays every day because for him it's just a great way to escape and especially with covet it's like you know what else are you gonna do um so yeah i i think where you're right is that if you go in saying blow my mind and like addict me and this is you know i've got my iphone here and it's just gonna captivate me and i'm never gonna be able to live without it you know you're not you're not gonna get stuck if you go in with an open mind and you try a bunch of experiences i think if you try enough experiences i bet there's one in there that is pretty captivating and keep you coming back

SPEAKER_24: so do let me ask you a future looking question because obviously this technology is getting better and better the oculus we had four or five years ago i don't know if it's called the rift or something you had to plug it into a computer you had cables it sucked and now you and it was expensive you know thousands of dollars for the pc thousand dollars fifteen hundred dollars for the oculus now uh the new oculus you just don't even need to connect it to your phone anymore correct you just turn it on

SPEAKER_58: and you're done no phone i mean it's completely standalone i can bring it with me wherever it's 300 bucks and it comes with everything that you need no computer necessary right so that solved a lot

SPEAKER_56: of the uh hardware setup and those problems and costs so they lose you think facebook loses what

SPEAKER_58: a hundred bucks on that 200 bucks on it i i yeah some well it costs 300 so i i think it's probably between 50 and 100 you know mark has said they're not making money on the hardware he actually said

SPEAKER_00: they would lose money on it i think and the meta thing was that he would continue and that one is

SPEAKER_56: called the oculus quest 2 quest 2 for now and quest 3 is going to come out what do you think next year after christmas or something what's the what's the word on the street the guess is that we're looking

SPEAKER_58: at an 18 month cycle they announced uh at their last conference when they changed their name uh that they're working on one called cambria which is going to be a higher end more expensive they didn't say the price but it sounds like it is more targeted at professional users than just gamers got industry people i i don't know it's hard to say but i would guess around the holidays a year from now we'll start to hear more about a quest 3 or something like that what do you think in the

SPEAKER_00: hardware will be different with the next version is it just going to be speed is it going to be the lag because i still get a little motion sick on these things and i suffer from motion sickness when i'm on boats in the backseat of cars so i'm a little sensitive to it i know not everybody is i i will say that the quest 2 was the least motion sickness i had and i played beat saber for i don't know a solid maybe 20 minutes you know going on and off with another person so i really actually enjoyed beat saber and i didn't get nauseous i did get that experience when you take them off where you're like whoa real world but what will be what is there something that needs to

SPEAKER_94: be solved or is it just going to be something incremental in these next versions or the cambrian

SPEAKER_58: is the new high cambria yeah i think it's called cambria uh so i think there are a few major factors we are still so early in this right one is the most important one to me is resolution right now if you put on the quest 2 and you try to watch a movie that's like even 1080 you're going to see some pixelation the quality is not as good as if you were watching your tv right as soon as the quality is effectively the same as watching like a 4k tv from you know seven feet away 70 inch 4k tv or something then you get into an interesting scenario where this thing can be a home theater in your house regardless of how big or small your house is right so watching content in vr i think is a big opportunity watching sports and live events where the resolution is so good that you feel like you're watching it you know at a movie theater or something like that the other big one is social so right now there's some different types of avatars we have some in our game uh they're varying quality some are very creepy some are very cartoony that's kind of the two the two sides you get what they don't have right now is any sort of face tracking so we're talking on zoom i can see your reaction to that comment you can see me we can see our hands and everything like that but you know eye contact is actually something that you don't get in zoom that you could get in vr as soon as they can track your pupils i think that's a really big deal and tracking kind of your expressions and stuff like that so that allows you to have a much deeper connection with someone where you're not just looking at an avatar that's kind of got this blank

SPEAKER_24: there people would call non-verbal cues that allow you to know that maybe i want to chime in in this conversation or that you're nodding in agreement to me and people i think underestimate how necessary that is so that those are things that we can expect now when we look at the games it does seem like we've had enough time to make good games like beat saber feels like a game i would say from the 2000 to 2010 console era in terms of how it looks and feels it doesn't feel that old to me it's not like it looks like a nintendo game right it looks like 2010 maybe versus like playing fortnite

SPEAKER_99: on your computer yeah i think it's even 2016 maybe or 2017 but yeah it's not not too old it's not it's

Chamath Palihapitiya: but i'm just saying in terms of the look and feel right so and then gameplay seems to be getting better

SPEAKER_00: so is what's happening um that uh the games that are on casual ipad games console games hardcore games on pc are it's not competitive with those yet or it's never going to be competitive with those that's

SPEAKER_24: not what this is for those modalities work better it's better to play a casual game like backgammon or chess or bejeweled on an ipad or iphone and it's better to play fortnite on a computer with a full

SPEAKER_56: keyboard this is going to be a different type of game or is it eventually it will compete with those

SPEAKER_58: two other categories of gaming for a while i think it's going to be pretty different right i think the whole point of vr is that it's very immersive and instead of having you know instead of having a bunch of things kind of going on at the same time and multitasking like you can do with mobile games uh in vr you're you're like locked into that one experience right now and that gives you a lot of opportunity it it forces you to keep the user very entertained while they're using it because they're not going to be distracted by other things but but it's just very different i think the big difference between you know console games today and mobile games today is mostly the budget um so even though the power the power of the quest is somewhat limited but it's pretty impressive but hardly anyone has the budget to really push it because the size of the market just isn't there yet to justify spending 50 million dollars on a game you know like you get from the triple a games on console right now so production value is really there and then once vr transitions to be how you interact with your computer let's say right so when i'm working on my computer i look at my screen right now but i could be wearing a very lightweight vr headset where comfort is another major factor right lightweight headset i see everything i'm in vr all day while i'm working and now i probably do have a little widget that is like uh a solitaire i can still play solitaire in vr but it's just a very different way

SPEAKER_102: of kind of interacting and engaging with your content okay everybody let's take a moment to talk about growth marketing and all the tactics and hacks that are out there with me today jake badsguard he is the ceo and founder of disruptive advertising which you can visit at disruptive advertising.com twist so some questions for you jake what are some of the tips you have for marketers who are planning to

SPEAKER_105: take advantage of black friday and cyber monday this year yeah jason 2020 was a phenomenal year for black friday and cyber monday and 2021 is shaping up to be as good if not better we actually have a benchmark report where we're we're monitoring 250 million dollars in media budgets and we're seeing that cpm's are starting to rise in the 20 to 40 range in a lot of industries and so i i'm just worried that a lot of companies are going to get surprised that there's a lot of demand but the competition is up as well and if they don't have a good strategy for that they're going to spend the same amount and get less performance or they're going to have to spend a lot more to get the same

SPEAKER_102: performance and so they've got to get on top of that so if you want to sign up for a free digital digital marketing audit with jake and his company disruptive advertising just visit disruptive advertising.com twist and if you go into business with disruptive you will receive a 250 gift card and a free friday to sunday ski trip in utah we'll see you on the slopes it's gonna be a great season

SPEAKER_24: so one thing i noted uh when the conversation started with you on twitter was golf is expensive it's time consuming it requires travel it requires coordination a lot of those things so to get the golf experience you need a tee time you need a club membership you need a a set of golf clubs you need three other people to play with here you can get that same experience and it is uh you know a really cool experience the same thing with maybe mountain climbing rock climbing skiing i was starting scuba

SPEAKER_00: diving i was thinking about things that are expensive pursuits that are hard to coordinate uh that are super immersive you're only doing that one thing you're lost in it so i just came up with snowboarding scuba mountain climbing and golf could be hang gliding i guess would be another one so is what we're kind of discovering is that maybe these big experiences that are hard to you know coordinate in the real world are so easy to coordinate that the weight of the glasses you know and

SPEAKER_24: some of these other limitations uh maybe go away because by comparison putting on for your dad to put the goggles on is one one thousandth of finding three other players in a tee time is that what's

SPEAKER_58: happening that's that's certainly the bet that that we're making on the golf run i mean it just at a high level our goal is not to replace you know real world golf uh my co-founder and i are big golfers we've been playing since we were kids so our goal is really to help introduce people to golf in a way that kind of gets them addicted and gets them to love the sport so that they are willing to go through the friction of playing a real round of golf which is significantly higher than than doing it in vr um so i think that's really important i think there are some other great examples that translate extremely well to vr and then some that are much more challenging like table tennis uh 11 table tennis is another game they've done an incredible job on the physics and matchmaking so it's just trivial to put on your headset you know pick up your controller and play ping pong table tennis with another person that's at your same skill level without leaving your house and a lot of people are you know losing significant weight just doing sort of the exercise side of it i do think something like snowboarding is is uh is going to be something that gets solved but it's more challenging because a big part of snowboarding is is balancing right and sort of working the edges and you know catching your upper

SPEAKER_13: body yes exactly and baseball and table tennis is all upper body and very little lower body right and

SPEAKER_58: and your feet are stationary or relatively stationary even something like like tennis you know you have to run pretty far across the court to get some of the shots so emulating that in vr will be a bit of

SPEAKER_63: a challenge because of locomotion but anything that doesn't require a lot of locomotion i think can translate really well even today what is your app cost 20 20 bucks and then beat saber is like 50 or something it's like it's like 30 but they have a lot of uh packs right so they saw song packs and you know i think a lot of their players spend hundreds of dollars what is the right pricing for

SPEAKER_24: this is is one of the issues that casual gaming on an ipad is two or three bucks we have free gaming with you know buying packs and then when you open up your oculus i i was kind of like this is so confusing and where's the app store i mean it's it literally you know the first 20 minutes of using an oculus is just torture and then finally you get into a game you get excitement how bad is that onboarding experience for people at this point and and when does that get fixed because this really feels like a

SPEAKER_00: product that's been created in a frankenstein mode whereas like i think apple if they made this product you turn it on you'd see a suite of apps you'd click beat saber you click your golf game and you'd be playing instantly yeah this thing makes you log in create an account find the app store there's 20 choices they're promoting bullshit everywhere i mean it is on a scale of one to ten

SPEAKER_17: what would you rate the onboarding experience for oculus i know they're a partner so i don't know how

SPEAKER_125: objective yeah yeah no yeah we're i mean only because we're distributing our app through them but um i do

SPEAKER_58: think the a very initial kind of experience where they just walk you through the basic controls is pretty cool and like kind of a good way to get you in but then in terms of actually interacting with the menus uh so yeah if one's the worst i don't know it's probably like a four and that might be being generous compared to apple which is like you know eight or nine uh i think there's a lot of room for improvement john carmack you know the former cto uh he even says like if you start a stopwatch and you're a pro user and you put on your headset from the moment you put it on to when you're playing a game it's still going to be like 30 seconds maybe and that's like a ton of time imagine if it took 30 seconds to check your email on your phone that would be ridiculous i mean it used to like we used to

SPEAKER_24: dial up and you know and it was something that was obscure so that's that's an easy fix right uh let me ask you a question about golf specifically do you find that people who play vr golf get better at real world golf and is that part of your mission is hey start here and we'll make you better at it or is it hey we're just going to give you the golf experience here we're not trying to make you

SPEAKER_58: better at real world golf so we started with that goal in mind we started with training as kind of our core business principle not gaming and what we realized pretty quickly is that we had no data to prove this so we figured the best way to get data is to make something fun so that we have a lot of usage and then we can kind of back into training so we have not focused on training but anecdotally some a lot of our players do say this is really helping with my putting because now i have a better process for reading the break and seeing the line um we recently partnered with the pga and their core business is actually around helping people get into the game of golf and they have i think 30 000 instructors nationwide uh that teach people how to play golf so as we move forward and as the market starts to shift outside of primarily gaming uh we would really like to solve the training side of it and golf training is very expensive and it's very hands-on right and i think with a combination of kind of ai and us able to track a lot of data about your swing in 3d um we're going to be able to solve this in a way that doesn't require as much attention from an individual person i mean the ai

SPEAKER_24: could be telling you what to change in your swing and then also there were like some of these um

SPEAKER_13: educational um services that were doing sort of a global arbitrage and uh you know a chinese to an english teacher teaching a chinese student vice versa a french teacher teaching uh you know french to an

SPEAKER_24: american who wanted to learn how to speak french and then they were charging 20 bucks an hour where a tutor might be 100. you might have people in the philippines or japan who would love to make 25 dollars an hour giving people tips on how to play golf in vr and it might just be a side hustle and you know the 200 lesson goes away um totally curious about actual real golf courses in the game do you have real courses in there because i do know some of my friends who golf will study the holes and you know do a little pre-gaming of golf that seems to me to be a huge opportunity people could play pebble

SPEAKER_00: beach before going to pebble beach and that was a hard tea time and i don't know what it costs to play pebble beach 500 bucks 500 bucks uh that's actually not so bad but it's actually yeah it's one of the more reasonable ones uh but even still that's 500 per person right so it's two thousand dollars for your for friends to go if you could actually play it for a month before you went and you could be like hey hole six is coming we got to get over this water thing that could be amazing so would you have to license those maps from those people do they own their maps is it public how would that work and

SPEAKER_58: are you pursuing that we are marketing for them too 100 so we we're releasing our full course update on november 18th that's you know coming out in two weeks um and we have our first real course in the game for that release which is wolf creek which is an hour north of las vegas and mesquite nevada somewhat remote and uh we talked to them we licensed them so yeah that's the course right there wolf creek and we licensed um you basically license the brand and then you're responsible for for getting the data for getting the topology because the course itself doesn't have the most accurate topology for their own course because they don't really need it in a 3d format so thankfully because of our partnership with topgolf they have a lot of data that we can use and then we take that data and then prepare it for for vr so yeah you can see this is my co-founder here that's you know playing the course the greens are accurate the contours are accurate obviously the graphics are the best we can do with the hardware that we have but that'll improve over time and you're 100 right about the pebble beach example i mean before you go on your dream golf vacation why not play the course 10 times in vr over the period of a week and get to know every nook and cranny and be prepared to you know to play the chorus for real for the first time so we think that that is that is something that players are going to get into and even if you're not into playing the game itself just to check out the course and see

SPEAKER_63: what some of these courses look like close up because on tv you don't really get a good sense of what the contours are actually like and what the 3d layout is like do you think apple will come out

SPEAKER_129: with a vr headset or do you think they're just going to go straight to ar because everything tim cook

SPEAKER_00: says is like you know tipping towards ar and if they had vr i kind of think they would have put it out by now so yeah i think what's your gamesmanship there i think it's uh you know i think ar and vr

SPEAKER_58: are two two sides of the same coin and uh you know technically the quest has ar in it right you have that pass-through mode where you can kind of lay out your guardian and see through that's ar uh and

SPEAKER_13: i think explain what that is for people who don't know the guardian concept and okay yeah so so the

SPEAKER_58: quest has uh cameras on it right so that it can see the real world and that's how it knows your position

SPEAKER_78: and that's how it does its tracking right on the outside cameras on the outside looking exactly on your

SPEAKER_58: behalf yeah camera yeah exactly cameras on the outside looking at the world they're they're black and white cameras they're actually i think infrared cameras and um you can use that to see through the device so you get a view of what is going on outside me you can see your hands and everything they're just opening up apis so that developers can use that to build experiences and when you first put it on you use the controller to basically outline your guardian which says this is my safe space it's not going to include a chair or a couch or something that i might smash my hand into and as my controller gets closer to the guardian it's going to show up in vr so that i know that i don't want to go past this point um so i think apple's going to come up with the device come out with a device that is primarily vr focused but it has cameras like the quest that are much higher resolution so that you can see through and you could see your hands you can see other people but you know the other people aren't they're they're not going to see your eyes most likely is my guess

SPEAKER_63: it'll be like the quest but a better form factor where they see you know your face is still effectively covered by the device versus something like magic that would be cool because then you could go to your

SPEAKER_24: backyard with your headsets on you could actually hold a real golf club right uh or instead of using the oculus controllers there they could snap onto a real golf club right and you could be out there on your back deck swinging and see your actual friend but instead of seeing the real world it would then

SPEAKER_00: display pebble beach on you know your deck in brooklyn on your backyard or something that's what's

SPEAKER_58: coming isn't it 100 that's that's where we see it going is letting you swing your actual club and hitting an actual golf ball oh really into a net and then transmitting that data into vr and running

SPEAKER_37: the physics simulation um which is 100 simulators do i i was saying at a rented airbnb that was like some rich guys they had and it had a golf simulator in it and like part of renting the airbnb was this

SPEAKER_56: hundred thousand those golf simulators cost 100 grand or something the really good ones do they

SPEAKER_61: come down to five grand but oh you know you kind of get what you pay for got it and in that one it

SPEAKER_00: was like a box in this room next to a bowling alley this guy had a trick down in his house and it was like you could just hit the ball and it had a big projection screen it was interesting i mean not for me but so that's going to be available to everybody in vr slash ar will you call that vr with the cameras

SPEAKER_151: on the outside that is more like an ar experience that's called a pass-through so it's a better brand

SPEAKER_58: yeah yeah pass-through basically means you're still looking at a screen inside right you're still looking at a screen but it's displaying what's outside of the device it's displaying through the cameras versus something like magic leap where you're actually looking through lenses so you're seeing you know it's the same as looking through sunglasses pass-through is looking at a screen and then the uh you know the other option is is just looking through glass lenses there are pros and cons to each uh my bet is that pass-through is where we'll see the the majority of devices coming out

SPEAKER_63: in terms of being ar ar and vr capable are you a subscription-based app or do you just sell the app

SPEAKER_58: one time and then try to get people to buy packs right now it's just one time 20 bucks we are going to the the wolf creek thing is going to be our first uh our first pack so our first golf course and where we see this going eventually is you know i'm not sure how into you know nfts and crypto and and that type of thing but we really see a lot of the things happening in vr turning into components of this sort of greater metaverse right where the metaverse in my mind is is like the web it's not quite like the internet because the internet kind of powers everything right and the internet doesn't actually need a display but the web is how you interface with the internet in a lot of cases and i think the metaverse is going to work like that it's interfacing with you know the internet or whatever um through a virtual interface and we think the big opportunity is effectively building out the golf side of that right if you look at the real world nobody owns the sport of golf it's a sport and there are a lot of companies that make money off of the sport by by contributing to it in different ways golf

SPEAKER_63: clubs golf courses all that so we want to we kind of want to set it up to effectively give our players

SPEAKER_58: the ability to sell their own packs to create their own golf clubs to create their own golf courses

SPEAKER_73: and you know structure it in a way where we get some small fee for doing that but so you could

SPEAKER_156: actually make the game free and then it comes with one course and you get a ton of users and then you

SPEAKER_24: say to your users listen create holes and people can buy holes they can buy packs they can buy challenges

SPEAKER_00: they can buy clubs and we just get 10 and if you buy this course you get an nft version of it in other words you get to put it in your wallet and then you could take that you could take your golf clubs and

SPEAKER_13: you could take your course and go put it in your world on the other side of the metaverse somewhere kind of a more compelling process when you look at a company like facebook and they built they were

SPEAKER_24: they basically took the open web and closed it now they're saying they're going to do this open

SPEAKER_00: there doesn't seem to be an open standard for vr so as a developer you're making for the oculus you're already locked into oculus when apples comes out or if you know microsoft and google have a product that

SPEAKER_24: kind of we have halo lens halo halo halo lens hollow lens yeah hollow lens rather um i think halo is a cooler than hollow lens um if you want it to be on hollow lens or you know apple's new glasses you're gonna have to rewrite this whole code base it's going to be ported or how much can you port and how hard

SPEAKER_58: is that going to be yeah thankfully it's very easy almost every single experience that you know you have in vr right now is either built with unity or unreal which are two game engines both very very uh very and ours is unity so as soon as apple comes out or any other headset comes out you know there are relatively few apis that we're using that are oculus specific and even on top of that they have something called open xr which is effectively creating this bridge layer that will end up connecting with all the major headsets um so it is actually being set up in a way that is way better than any other platform that i've seen even from the onset um right now it's just a you know basically 100

SPEAKER_63: control by oculus because that that's the only headset is there a number two headset it would probably be the htc vive or the valve in index but then are those people still investing in them and playstation

SPEAKER_58: had one at some point right yeah actually the psvr might be the meet be the second by the numbers but it hasn't really done much in the last few years uh playstation you know sony's apparently coming out with a psvr2 next year that's that's the expectation apple's coming out with something htc just put out a new headset but it's not really gaming focused it's a little bit unclear what they're

SPEAKER_63: trying to do with that um and then valve is you know tbd i think a lot of folks in the space are hoping

SPEAKER_154: that they they keep going with it uh yeah it's hard to imagine apple is not a major player here

SPEAKER_63: where did google wind up in all of this they will drop the ball they i mean they they sort of took off they created this cardboard thing which was like hey look vr can be super cheap and you know super low quality and then they basically were like okay we don't know what we're doing so we're just going to hold back and wait to see who figures it out which you know to be interestingly it seems

SPEAKER_58: like a lot of google successes are kind of in that vein where they sort of do wait a little bit to

SPEAKER_63: see who figures it out and then they go create a better more mass market version i think that's

SPEAKER_170: where google's really is there an open source hardware program all of these companies we mentioned

SPEAKER_24: focused on doing open source hardware for their uh server farms right because they wanted to drive costs to the lowest possible well zuckerberg is talking about driving oculus to the lowest cost possible but it's pretty clear he wants to own the full stack he wants to own the app store he wants to own identity and he wants to own the headset just like bezos insisted on owning the kindle and the uh store where you bought the books and the connectivity between the two um is there an open source movement to make an open source vr headset that is cheap and anybody could make it and the spec is out there so you know if anchor or you know pick some commodity

SPEAKER_13: hardware provider wants to just make their version uh they could piece it together i'm pretty confident

SPEAKER_58: there is i don't know what it is and i have very low hopes for it because you know facebook is pouring 10 billion dollars into this crazy this year and more next year and more the year after that most likely um and a lot of it is research and development it's not you know they're figuring out how the lenses

SPEAKER_73: should even work or what software to write to optimize you know rendering performance there's so

SPEAKER_63: much low level stuff that it's like we're just not at the point where i think somebody i wonder what

SPEAKER_173: of that 10 billion is going towards the hardware and the operating system of the headset versus other

SPEAKER_73: that's a good question i i assume a lot of it is hardware related because that just seems to be a very expensive problem to solve um but yeah i don't know it would be interesting if they publish

SPEAKER_175: those numbers yeah i mean you got to think apple which spends tens of billions on research every

SPEAKER_13: year is is matching them and doing something equally spectacular kind of interesting i don't know if you follow the sort of war going on between facebook and iphones and apple on apple saying hey we're just not going to let you track users right and now you but they know that the

SPEAKER_00: next big compute platform is going to be vr ar in all likelihood and now zuckerberg's like you know

SPEAKER_56: what you want to screw up our advertising business we're going to do hardware and we're going to pour

SPEAKER_44: 10 billion into it so i'll see you on the court for that it's been it's turning into quite a showdown

SPEAKER_58: isn't it it is and i yeah i'm anxious to see what apple comes out with because i've i've had an iphone since they first came out my career before this was basically in mobile from like 2008 right when the

SPEAKER_73: store came out so i've been a big fan of apple from you know forever and they make a lot of money on hardware which is not the plan for facebook so you know facebook's kind of taking on more of this android mentality which is we you know interesting to see kind of the android side of it come out before the iphone side of it since it worked in reverse on mobile um but i think apple's going to try to

SPEAKER_58: make money on the hardware and uh you know apple's also not really known for pioneering open platforms either quite the opposite right they're super closed but they do an incredible good job at it and they keep it all private and they make it happen so nothing would be better for you than a you

SPEAKER_01: know a three or four way race to get users up to speed here maybe consolidating down to two maybe a

SPEAKER_13: five horse race which is what it is now apple playstation microsoft facebook yeah yes yeah sony

SPEAKER_63: htc facebook apple's getting into it and then you know soft will be a player for sure right microsoft

SPEAKER_58: yeah i think so microsoft is the xbox side of microsoft has basically said we're not messing with vr for a while which is interesting um so you know there's they seem to be more focused on the enterprise

SPEAKER_183: side of it with hololens i think they need to be involved in this and if you look at how well they did

SPEAKER_13: with uh xbox and you see zuckerberg's presentation uh for meta was essentially he just cut and pasted

SPEAKER_24: the halo the hololens presentation was like here's our version of hololens here's your desktop here's a bunch of things floating around move stuff around and oh you can still see your desk and your actual

SPEAKER_13: real pen and paper if you want to you know it would look like he has a vision for that and he always has had a thing about trying to get facebook slash meta into the enterprise like they did an enterprise version of slack so he he still has that itch i think he wants to scratch and he said they would make it a separate log and it wouldn't be your personal login anymore so that's kind of he did

SPEAKER_24: mention that which was like a he's kind of like shooting a cannonball over the deck of hololens

SPEAKER_169: and he's saying to apple we're coming for you too it's going to be quite a showdown uh in both cases

SPEAKER_58: i think so i'm i think what's interesting about you know the quest right now is it's very clearly a gaming device and every every headset that's come out other than like uh you know some smaller ones

SPEAKER_73: uh have been gaming focused whereas apple is unlikely to produce a gaming focused device so i'm really curious to see what they show us because they've always been more focused on kind of general consumers uh than enterprise or gaming um and if they can turn vr into something that general consumers get excited about that's where i see the biggest opportunity it's gaming is not the biggest opportunity for vr it's just the one that makes sense right now in the same way that you

SPEAKER_188: know atari what do you think it is it's experiences and education are going to be the big winners no i

SPEAKER_73: think it's everyday use like what do you use your computer for today you know you check really

SPEAKER_58: you think it's like turn it on and do email in a headset 100 i mean you could just stay in your bed throw your headset on and now you're teleported to this beautiful beach where you're checking your email doing all that other stuff and then you know going taking a break watching a movie on a huge screen and yeah i mean they're you know you're already player one and your belief where this is

SPEAKER_157: going oh yeah there's no doubt completely dystopian like wearing the headset for more than an hour a day

SPEAKER_63: what's the longest you've worn the headset for honestly it probably is like two hours like a couple rounds of golf and then you know and then i take it off so i'm not in there all day but once it gets comfortable enough like what's the difference between staring at your screen you can still see what's

SPEAKER_73: outside right like with these pass through cameras or whatever so i i think it's a pretty natural

SPEAKER_13: progression i mean obviously when will the headset exist that somebody could wear for six seven eight

SPEAKER_79: hours you know full work day i mean i think that's probably yeah i think that's probably what apple is

SPEAKER_58: working on and frankly the cambria thing that facebook showed i think within the next like three years

SPEAKER_73: we'll have something that's light enough weight that's like basically equivalent to wearing you know

SPEAKER_13: you know ski goggles goggles or glasses got it so i don't think it's that far away those are not uncomfortable for six hours you may have to take them off and adjust now and again right pressure on

SPEAKER_00: your face but and then the ability to turn on like and literally just put what would be the equivalent of you know the bose headset uh i never seen the bose spectacle glasses yeah yeah like you know chunky sunglasses right when does that hit realistically objectively when will we be wearing those if three if three years from now we have a six eight hour headset that's light enough and comfortable enough for six seven eight hours when do the glasses show up that can do the same thing so facebook released

SPEAKER_79: their ray-ban glasses yeah that can kind of do that and uh they can take pictures and they can you listen to music but you can't throw stuff up on the screen right right so i i think that's probably closer to the five to ten years got it if i had to guess if i had to guess yeah but i was gonna say

SPEAKER_13: i was gonna say seven to ten yeah before we can do that and that maybe 20 30 projecting into your eye

SPEAKER_204: or projecting onto the glass that's tbd right so that that depends is it pass through or is it something like magic leap i don't know if you ever tried magic leap but they have what's it like

SPEAKER_58: so you can see through it perfect like like sunglasses uh and then they have you know a relatively small area in the middle where you can see 3d content um and it's it's kind of semi-transparent so it's not perfectly opaque right you can still kind of see your hand through it or whatever i think that needs to change otherwise it just limits what you can do with it um but yeah you know that's that's a big open question is like what ends up being the final ever gonna like hit the streets and like when

SPEAKER_63: will that happen if it does they said that magically 2 is uh was announced and is coming out relatively soon i'm still not 100 sure who they're targeting it seems like they switched over to more enterprise so you know they got another 500 million dollar investment so obviously there are people that believe in them um but uh i think i kind of think it looks cool it looks very really cool

SPEAKER_212: to me i like it yeah i think their form factor is great yeah yeah i mean i it feels like you're either

SPEAKER_13: an x-men and uh you're like cyclops or something like it's it's or you're like in the matrix or

SPEAKER_58: blade runner or something i think a lot of them are going to move in that direction i think there's like a side benefit of having these glasses that cover a good portion of your face in that you can't do face tracking as easily so the whole privacy side of things plus like you know being in this kind of safety bubble plus the fact that it's probably recording everything that you're seeing you know could have some interesting effects uh on society on yeah literally in the william gibson

SPEAKER_13: books there was a concept of god's little machine which was a zeppelin like imagine a little zeppelin like the size of like i don't know a half a loaf of bread or something and it would float above you

SPEAKER_00: with a camera and like create a 3d model of the world and it would record your entire life every conversation everything so everybody was walking around with these little zeppelins above their heads like

SPEAKER_56: little blimps recording everything and then in your glasses you could play back any moment of your life wow so that's that's essentially what this is going to build is like possible instead of me doing a podcast you could just have me walking around with this like goggles on or joe rogan you

SPEAKER_00: could just be live casting his entire life like the truman show yep you play back what's the craziest like kind of application you had there because i'm thinking about like if there was a war like imagine if world war ii occurred like and everybody was wearing these you would have like the entire war

SPEAKER_24: would be documented first person perspective or right i don't know if you were well if they're even fighting honnold and you're scaling el capitan or whatever he did free soloing we could be wearing

SPEAKER_219: the glasses while he's free soloing i think that's exactly it i know right it's nerve-wracking like

SPEAKER_58: thankfully you know what happened before it came out but i think that's exactly it i think live sports and live events is where this thing goes from oh that's kind of cool i tried it it wasn't for me to there's no way that you're going to watch a football game or a golf game when you're not in this experience because your experience is so much more real and you're still able to share it with your friends because they're virtually standing right next to you even though they might be in new york versus you in san francisco or whatever that's where i think things get really interesting you know travis scott does a concert that is this xr concert where like everyone's got a front stage pass or you buy an nft and that determines where your location is at the concert um and you know these virtual experiences end up being like is like 10 million dollar show with like crazy lights and custom graphics

SPEAKER_73: and all of this stuff so i think that's the crazy thing i think live sporting is what makes this go go

SPEAKER_13: bananas we should they should definitely do an exhibition game uh where you have like a two-on-two

SPEAKER_24: basketball game they agree to not foul hard and we could literally you could be steph curry and lebron

SPEAKER_00: james carmel anthony whatever and they're wearing the glasses you get to have their first-hand experience

SPEAKER_13: of like dunking the ball or shooting that's crazy when you think about it i mean those are the experiences

SPEAKER_211: that are going to be just absolutely wild 100 yeah i'm not the tallest guy so being as as big as lebron

SPEAKER_00: would be like pretty crazy experience for me yeah i i think the alex honnels the honnold one is the will be like the most amazing one to like free solo yeah or actually those giant those big wave surfers out in spain yeah who are doing those 50 foot waves can you imagine they wore one of these

SPEAKER_56: headsets and like you get to experience being towed into a 50 foot wave i mean i have a hard time

SPEAKER_102: watching them on those 50 foot waves you know anything you have on it would you'd have a heart

SPEAKER_58: attack and you know the beauty of that is it it still puts a lot of the effort into the person doing the real life experience right which i think is really critical and for our business that's what we care about we're not trying to kill golf replace golf we want more people to enjoy golf we just want to make sure that your first experience at pebble when you paid you know five thousand bucks for this trip isn't bad because you didn't have a chance to experience the course ahead of

SPEAKER_122: time so i think it's going to be amazing when something like brain surgery uh or any surgeries

SPEAKER_24: like any 12 year old kid can buy a surgery pack turn off or maybe it's open source it's free education

SPEAKER_01: like mit open courseware or whatever yeah imagine like some kid in uh the emerging world uh fka third world but we call the emerging world right now like to not rank these things but in the emerging world

SPEAKER_24: you know maybe they don't have surgery uh enough surgeons and some 12 year old 14 year old is like learning how to do some emergency surgery in hr in vr ar whatever xr and they figure it out and they

SPEAKER_01: do it a hundred times and somebody needs to get their appendix taken out and they actually are

SPEAKER_56: qualified to do it right like that could be you know pretty extraordinary 100 i mean what are the

SPEAKER_58: odds that the best surgeon in the world is actually the best surgeon if if everyone had an opportunity to kind of go through the same process you know exactly so and that that should change right so i i think this is a great equalizer and it does give people anywhere the opportunity to strap this on and take

SPEAKER_63: on experiences that you know they otherwise it would be prohibitive for them to do so uh i hope that's

SPEAKER_13: the direction it goes in feels like it's going that direction ryan great having you on the pod uh and uh great things happen when interesting conversations occur on twitter and then we make them uh double click on them and expand them here on the podcast you're in austin i gotta ask you i have very strong feelings but uh best beef rib best brisket let's just go with those two since those are the two best things you can get in barbecue uh don't at me with your pork ribs or shoulder i agree i love pork but we're going

SPEAKER_58: brisket beef rib what do you got for your brisket so i mean if i if i could only pick one place to go to for barbecue would be franklin's i i know that's kind of the generic answer but yes people built it up and it delivered that so other than that you know terry black's is a close second and

SPEAKER_63: way more convenient so that's sort of bang for the time but whatever uh yeah i'm going terry black

SPEAKER_79: on the beef rib i'm going to go to the barbecue on the breast on the bridge have you done franklin's

SPEAKER_00: i've done franklin's not for a while okay okay i mean listen franklin's brisket is legit i'm sure on

SPEAKER_24: par with the barbecue i like going to the barbecue at like i think they open at 10 30 11. so here's my like super tip if you're going to get brisket you just skip breakfast you do a hike or something in the morning so that's what my guy brian alvin i would do when we go we go for a two or three mile walk and uh then we go show up at the barbecue it's opening up there's no line there's like four people there man you get the first cuts of that fatty side of the brisket uh get a beef rib but you're right going to terry black's they seem to move that line pretty quick and uh they don't run out and that beef rib i mean expensive like you're going to spend 20 30 bucks on a beef rib but

SPEAKER_63: well worth it exactly and then just make sure you don't have any plans for the rest of the day

SPEAKER_24: yeah basically you're those are like the one meal days you're gonna get one meal you're gonna go one meal you skip the breakfast you get a big lunch you put a hike in there you go around lady bird is

SPEAKER_243: it lady bird lake lady bird like you got it yep you guys are a little lady park right there some

SPEAKER_24: disc loop yeah all right listen brother i'll see you when i'm in austin thanks for coming on the pod and thanks for replying to my tweet we'll see you all next time on this week in startups bye bye