Jason Calacanis: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of This Week in Startups. Happy Tuesday,

SPEAKER_01: the hardest part of the climb. Yes, but we're going to make it and we have big news. Apple is has announced that they are returning to offices this time for real three days a week in September, whether you want to go back or not. We're going to have a little debate about this

SPEAKER_05: actually, about the manager perspective, the worker perspective. But then I think we do a really good job of broadening out and talking about what this means for the future of work. You thought that was like the most boring topic that was totally over at every conference, but it turns out just got a lot more interesting. And we're going to talk about two trends,

SPEAKER_08: overemployed and quiet quitting. What are those two trends and why do you need to know about them?

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's fascinating. And then we're going to talk about Meta and DoorDash partnering on deliveries for Facebook Marketplace. And my theory that Marketplace is actually sneakily, quietly Meta's one of its most valuable assets. Ah, and it's an inside job. We'll explain why.

SPEAKER_11: And it wouldn't be Tuesday without a J-Trade coming in. Big news on the Disney front and on the Stitch Fix front. Stick with us. It's going to be a great show.

SPEAKER_13: This Week in Startups is brought to you by Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website.

SPEAKER_14: Go to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Notion is one place for notes, docs, projects, and everyday work that goes way beyond a wiki. Get started for free at notion.com slash twist. And Bubbles. Guess what? You don't have to be in back-to-back calls all day or continually get pulled into quick syncs. By using Bubbles' async collaboration tool, you can remove a minimum of two meetings a week from your schedule. Get your point across with unlimited screen and video recordings for free at usebubbles.com slash twist.

SPEAKER_16: All right. It is upon us. And by it, I mean the return to work, the battle of our time,

SPEAKER_04: the new, the lines are being drawn. Oh boy. At this exact moment. Bloomberg reports that Apple will be requiring employees to come in on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and a third day to be determined by individual teams. Apple, of course, had first announced this three-day-per-week return to work policy back in June of 2021. That was 14 months ago, the last time that COVID was over. Now we got monkeypox and polio, so I'm sure this is going to go great. It was met with both employee backlash and COVID spike, so they had postponed this return for

SPEAKER_23: over a year. And in response to this news, Jason tweeted. Well, I think this is the gentleman's layoff. I'll say this is the proud man's layoff. I'll say this because Tim Cook's a man, but they're expecting 5% of people to quit over this at a minimum, I think 5% attrition. So there's no doubt in

SPEAKER_26: my mind. If they have 150,000 employees at Apple, I think that's the number last I read. I don't know

Jason Calacanis: how I don't know if that includes the retail workers. But anyway, So they're just willing to like reduce the productivity and happiness of every single employee so that they can get rid of five without having to just suck it up and make the hard call. Impressive. Precisely. That's why I call it the gentleman's layoff. It's like you're too proud.

Chamath Palihapitiya: It's like the lazy man's layoff is what it really is. That's kind of what gentleman's means. It's like

SPEAKER_26: the gentleman's sweep in basketball is, you know, in a seven game series, you'll let them win one. It's like, we know we're going to win. We could do it in four. But, you know, we're not going to put our full effort into one of these games, whatever, we'll let them save face. So this is going to result in a 5% riff that Apple is too proud to take. But this is becoming, I can tell you that this time is for real. There's multiple things that are happening concurrently. The last time the economy was roaring, and people had a choice of where they could work. There's a hiring freeze at every major tech company, and certainly at startups, and startups are paying less salaries. So they're becoming very cost conscious. And people are trying to get more out of each employee because they want to do less layoffs, right? They want to get more efficiency, which I think everybody's in favor of all sides of the equation here. But the COVID excuse, monkeypox excuse, polio, whatever you want to make an excuse about, that's over.

SPEAKER_42: Why is that over? Is COVID actually over? No, 400 people died yesterday. Now of those 400 people died, Molly, how many died with COVID? How many died from COVID? I don't want to have this whole debate anymore.

SPEAKER_44: But we are back up to more than the flu, right? Four to 500 a day is more than the flu kills annually.

SPEAKER_04: Like it's a, it's a, it's a legit number. It's a big deal. Side note, Mexico City. Yeah. 99% masked. Wow. Like hardcore. That city is hardcore. Yeah. So that's fascinating to me. Literally,

SPEAKER_50: it was on a ropes course. I took all the girls on a ropes course. Yeah. Which was actually really terrifying. That was amazing. Taking six-year-olds on a rope course. I know, I was like.

SPEAKER_53: One of my daughters is like, we're there with 30 feet in the air, and there's no ropes, you know, to hold onto on this, like the final two, because she kept wanting to go on more and more difficult things. One of my six-year-olds is incredibly brave. We got up there. All of a sudden, we figured out the limit of the braveness, because she's like, I don't want to do this. And I was like, can't go backwards. You got to go forward. So either I'm going to carry you across, and we're both going to fall and be in our harnesses or, you know, whatever. Anyway, the reason I bring it up is there was a

SPEAKER_58: family from China there. I believe China. I'm usually good at checking and telling the accents.

SPEAKER_59: Could have been Hong Kong. Anyway, they were all masked outside. Yeah. Socially distanced at an absurd pace. So obviously, for some people, it's still very real. I'm just talking about Americans. And this isn't my view. This is just, you know, boots on ground. You can't go out to

SPEAKER_26: dinner, movies, on an airplane, go to Europe, go to Yosemite, whatever your bag is, go to the

SPEAKER_62: Warriors game. And then also say work is not safe. Yeah. Yeah. Work is not safe. But last year,

SPEAKER_65: you could, you could say that less. Oh, can't say without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. So

SPEAKER_59: that's over. And the economy is screwed. So now that the economy is screwed like this, you

SPEAKER_58: know, it's, um, yeah, it's a whole different ball of wax. But what I realized was that this is top of mind for people. And Malcolm Gladwell, famous author, who's a really considered guy, I think, obviously, he reads his books. It's super considered, but he had strong feelings

SPEAKER_59: on this. As somebody who I think we all know, writes books from all around the world and does not go to an office every day to the best of my knowledge. He basically said working from home is destroying us. Here's a 43 second clip.

SPEAKER_71: It's hard to feel necessary when you're physically disconnected. And as we face the battle that all organizations are facing now and getting people back into the office, that this people, it's really hard to explain this core psychological truth, which is we want you to have a feeling of belonging and to feel necessary. We, and we want you to join our team. And if you're not here, it's really hard to do that. It's not in your best interest to work at home. I know it's a hassle to come to the office. But like, you know, if you work, if you're just sitting in your pajamas in your bedroom, is that the work life you want to live? Right? Don't you want to feel part of something? Molly, your reaction?

SPEAKER_04: I think I really liked, I liked your tweet about how people are talking past each other on this issue. I think that a lot of people really want to just make a pronouncement and have it be true, including Malcolm Gladwell. And as with almost every topic ever, some people are one way. Other people are another way. And some other people might be a completely different way. And get this, bear with me. This might sound crazy. Sometimes people have varying circumstances that make certain things work better or worse for them. Got it. And people need, again, stay with me. This is crazy. Different things in order to be successful.

SPEAKER_26: Got it. I know, it's mind blowing. Now, I just want to give a little context here. I understand what he's going through. He's a business owner, Pushkin Industries. It's a great podcasting company, they make amazing content, him and Michael Lewis and their other partner. I mean, they really are making great content. If you haven't checked out their pockets are extraordinary. And I think in that creative process, it would benefit having everybody around a table,

SPEAKER_11: you know, planning out new podcasts or editing them now in the steady state of producing a podcast. Does everybody need to be in the office? Well, we're here every day.

SPEAKER_26: I don't even know the last time we saw each other was in at the all this summit in May.

SPEAKER_27: Mm-hmm. Yep. And so, would it be better if we saw each other more often? Sure. Is the podcast suffering? Because I'm very annoying in person.

SPEAKER_85: What's that? I said, would it? Because I'm very annoying in person. I don't think so. It's kind of fun to hang out there in person. But my point is,

SPEAKER_05: but you know what I'm saying, but we're putting out content at a really high level. It's working.

SPEAKER_04: There are ways, like, I have to be honest, I'm finding, and I was listening to your interview with Howard Lindsman, Lindsman, Lindsman, and there are so many of these conversations now happening

SPEAKER_05: about the way that people must work and the way that they are most effective in the way they feel loved and whatever. And I'm just finding the whole thing, like, really patriarchal and insulting to

SPEAKER_36: employees. Like, it's such a bizarre assumption that you can only be effective and successful and happy one way. Yeah. And that way just happens to be the boss's way. And the boss is all these older white guys who are like, I believe this is how you have to work because this is how I've always done

SPEAKER_05: it. And if I can't see you, then you're not real. And your work is not real, despite what your outcomes

SPEAKER_85: may tell me to the contrary. And I think that's why the Malcolm Gladwell thing, like, went over poorly,

SPEAKER_100: let's say. He was getting dunked on. I do know a lot of people agree with him, who own businesses,

SPEAKER_26: or who are managers. And I think, you know, I always try to look at, like, the intent here. I think his intent is correct. I think for young people who need mentorship, being in an office, actually would be pretty dope. Now, do they have to be in five days a week or whatever? Is it absolutely necessary? No, we have people here, Rachel's developing wonderfully, Nick is an extraordinary contributor. Previously, you know, we've had people here who've done amazing jobs who are first time employees, but it would be nice to spend more time in person with them. And certain jobs require it. Like if you're building a rocket ship or batteries of an iPhone, whatever. But you know, what's going to ha I always think about what's going to happen. What's the path forward here? Yeah. And I can tell you what's happening in the big tech companies, the reports of abuse combined with the inability of management to know how to manage employees at scale is leading to management saying we got to come back to offices, and we got to figure out a way to negotiate this with employees. And they were given a crisis. This financial crisis is their window.

SPEAKER_11: Never waste a crisis. On the other side. This was the way for people who always wanted to work from home. When COVID happened, it was like, see, I had a number of employees I had riffs with at this very company who wanted to work from home or wanted unlimited vacations. I said, No, never. Not how I do business. We're always going to work in person. That doesn't change. This business is about founders meeting with them in person meeting with other investors. And then you know what happened COVID happened the entire industry changed. So now the my my entire thesis

SPEAKER_26: suddenly became wrong overnight, which is humans adapted. And now the default is meeting over zoom not in person. So anyways, I've been thinking about this a lot because there are things that can I run to work from home companies inside and launch. So 20 plays at 130 at another. I'm really

SPEAKER_58: seeing where this fails and where it succeeds. It's so clear to me how this is all going to work out. I think employees are going to start to be bucketed. And I think way founders are going to start looking at this is it's going to become hybrid in both ways hybrid a couple of days a week in the office a couple days out, and then hybrid with certain group of teams in the office and certain not, I think the standards going to become the management teams, and we'll have an in office culture. Now, why is that? Well, because they can afford to live within 20 minutes of the office. And I think that is the key issue that nobody talks about. You brought it up in our group chat this morning to remind me. Thank you. Yeah, it's a cost thing. It's an equity. It's a commute

SPEAKER_01: thing. The commute thing is just bad ROI. Listen, Squarespace is the platform where you can build or sell anything. You all know it. I've talked about it forever a decade here on this week in startups in partnership with Squarespace. We love it here. We use it for all our websites from DemoDay.com, etc. And there are so many great features in Squarespace that you need to know about and that founders love. Obviously, e commerce has been huge for them. You're like, well, Squarespace, I immediately think beautiful templates, perfect responsiveness across any device, mobile, desktop. Yes, but they've added inventory management API's and advanced analytics. They have incredible SEO right out of the box. So you're going to start ranking and selling and now they have member areas. What's member areas? Well, you can generate revenue through exclusive members only

SPEAKER_118: content. You can take all of that great content that you can teach people put it on your Squarespace site, and then sell it to people as a subscription or one off pieces of content. It's amazing. And if you build it for yourself, you don't have to give that 15 or 30% to other platforms, right? Let people come direct to you own that relationship. Don't get disintermediated head to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain, squarespace.com slash twist

SPEAKER_120: squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial offer code twist for 10% off. Let me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_58: If all commutes for everybody at Apple, we're under 20 minutes, or if all of our commutes at launch, and this weekend starts were under 20 minutes. And I said, Hey, we're gonna start taping in the office,

SPEAKER_124: whatever. Do you think it would be an issue? No. Exactly. So I mean, I think everybody would still

SPEAKER_04: people would still want some hybrid because like life pick up a lot easier, you need to pick up kids, like the flexibility of work from home, particularly for working parents, right? And particularly for

SPEAKER_06: moms who shoulder a lot more of this or caregivers of any type. Yeah, taking care of your mom, your dad,

SPEAKER_04: yeah, your grandma, whatever. Like that really was and has been consistently a game changer. But yeah, if people could just pop in and out of the office, you could go if you had a 20 minute commute, and you could go pick up your kid, and then drop them off, and then come back because they're 15. And you're like, I'll be back in an hour. Yeah, that's not, I can make the investment team

SPEAKER_130: meeting, I just gotta pick up my kid, I'll be right back. Right? No big deal. All right. You ate lunch in

SPEAKER_01: the car, you know, don't worry about it. It's your issue to make sure you work eight hours a day.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, totally. Like we're talking about, particularly with big tech, right? Two hour commutes, each way. Some people, I would say the average is an hour. But yeah, some people it is too.

SPEAKER_85: But it certainly can be like if you tried to buy, if you tried to drive certainly from Oakland to like Menlo Park, you better leave two hours. At that time. Yeah, hour and a half, yeah. Hour and a half,

SPEAKER_04: two hours, like it's, it's, I don't know. And so it's sort of just like you're 100%. And it's not just arduous. It's bad ROI. It's like, yeah, either, either it's bad for the employee who is spending

SPEAKER_05: an hour on this work related requirement that they don't get paid for, if they're hourly, or it's

SPEAKER_44: bad for you, the employer, because honestly, if I was at home, I'd be working for that 90 minutes,

SPEAKER_144: instead of driving. Yeah. And so the the now you're having this dance occur, where people are going to try to figure out how to negotiate this big companies, they don't need to negotiate, it's

SPEAKER_26: going to be our way or the highway. And then maybe there'll be some exceptions, you never hear about some crazy awesome developer lives in a mountain town, the CEO says I've been working with him for 30 years, we don't want the office are too weird anyway. Like, forget it. I don't want that guy in

SPEAKER_147: the office, he's to get more stratification, like rock stars will be able to negotiate work from home or

SPEAKER_26: yeah, yeah, totally. And let me ask you another question might relate to yesterday's show. Why can't everybody live within 20 minutes of Facebook or Google or Apple? Oh, that's so funny. It's

SPEAKER_150: because the guys who can afford to live really close to work don't want anybody to build more houses

SPEAKER_50: really close to work. So thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, Anderson. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Andresens. So this is the hypocrisy, right? We want, we want people to come to work. But we don't want to

SPEAKER_154: build apartments or housing within 20 minutes of work. And this is I think the you know, this,

SPEAKER_26: um, what do they call that when two people are at a an impact block, an impasse, this is the impasse,

SPEAKER_05: this is the impasse, exactly. And it's partly why it's so insulting the conversation to it's sort of just like this assumption that like, you know, every employee who works here is in the exact same circumstance as the person who has like 10 people to help him with his life or whatever, and lives 10 minutes from the office or gets driven there. It's like, you're good to Yeah, I know a lot of

SPEAKER_50: executives who have drivers, right? It's quite delightful to be able to show up after the commute and leave before it or after it. Yeah, your time's your own kind of situation and be driven. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05: I mean, it just is like work is not one thing I predict actually, as this goes forward to is like, yes, you'll have 5% of Apple employees quit, you will start to see input because there are some employees again, back to the original point, some people like this, some people like that redfish, bluefish, you will have some employees who will choose companies because they want to go into an office, or not. And company cultures will be established accordingly based on the bosses,

SPEAKER_06: and some people will pick that and others won't. And I just want to give advice to each side,

SPEAKER_58: there is a movement called like over employed. And Nick, maybe you could pull up the subreddit, the one post I sent about the guy say, Hey, everybody shut up about this. And then maybe you could pull up we'll pull up after that the overworked website I had linked here. There's a movement

SPEAKER_01: going on now, where people are hypothesizing that, hey, it's not illegal to work two jobs.

SPEAKER_59: So now employment law is going to have to be refined. And I'm in the process for both of my companies writing a best practice for work from home, I'm committed to both companies doing it. But I see some of the faults here. This is one of the faults, which is one group is interpreting hourly employment, which is what everybody's getting paid for it is a salary based on hours. And when they get paid based on that, they're saying, Well, I'm going to look at this as freelance or project work. Therefore, if you give me work at work, and I get it done in four hours, I can take another job without telling you and do four hours. And that's a big company being stupid, or you don't give me enough

SPEAKER_42: work, or you don't manage me well enough. That's not me being dishonest and unethical. It actually is

SPEAKER_59: you being honest and unethical. You can't be working for two companies full time simultaneously without disclosing it to them and getting their permission. And now this is going to be something that's going to be in all contracts. But this guy says here, like a lot of you need to stop talking

SPEAKER_11: about it. Because there's literally a subreddit for this. And I had brought this up on the show, like six months ago, now it's becoming actual techniques. Now pull up the website somebody created

SPEAKER_04: over employed.com slash FAQ work to remote jobs reach financial freedom, new to working multiple jobs. Welcome to the over employed lifestyle start here with our most frequently asked questions. What do I put on my resume? Can I tailor it to leave out some job experience? There's all this sort of like how do I job hunt? Is working multiple jobs even legal? Yes, they say generally it is. Do I look for a larger or smaller company for my second job? I mean, what's so interesting about this is how actually completely normalized, and even required, it became for every American worker to have a quote unquote, side hustle, right? It was like, Oh, we know that there's not a single state in America where you can afford to get a two bedroom apartment on minimum wage. So you're all going to need side hustle. So we're just going to glorify the crap out of that and make it seem like the only way to live.

SPEAKER_36: So then people got home had all of the hours of the day available to them. And we're like,

SPEAKER_04: Hmm, I bet I could side hustle the crap out of this up to and including maybe two full time jobs.

SPEAKER_176: Right. And so it's kind of but again, like, first, we were told you have to have a side hustle to survive in America because we're not going to pay you enough to survive in America. Just to be clear

SPEAKER_98: though, Molly, shockingly, people went off and got like two jobs. I'm sorry, they weren't performing at

SPEAKER_23: the other job when they just get fired. No, no, that's the wrong lens to look at it. This is not minimum wage people who can't make their mortgage payment or they don't know.

SPEAKER_59: That's not these are developers. These are six figure jobs trying to figure out how do I get a 300k job at Facebook and 150k job at a startup. And then they're kind of trying to come up with

SPEAKER_11: techniques of how to be on two calls simultaneously. No, like they literally are making scripts of like, Oh, I can't make that they have two things get booked at the same time. Oh, my I had a kid emergency.

SPEAKER_185: Oh, the internet went out of my house. Like, they're coming up with all the reasons of like

Chamath Palihapitiya: how to navigate those situations. I'm just saying don't we also consider that hustle? I consider it unethical. Sure, it's hustling. If you did it after the workday and sure, but you have

SPEAKER_26: to let your employee know your employer know you're doing this. So employers are just going to make this

SPEAKER_59: clear. Yeah. And then there's also competition that occurs like so what if you're competing with another company, but this is the kind of stuff that I can tell you is driving people back to work

SPEAKER_26: driving the executives to drive people out to work. This kind of unethical behavior. Also, people are using a key shaker and a mouse shaker to put into because a lot of jobs. If you're in I think like Microsoft teams or slack, it'll show you're away from your computer anecdotally, the key shaker is

SPEAKER_14: Yeah, 100 times more prevalent than people working to remote jobs. The key shaker thing. I know a ton

SPEAKER_62: of people that do that. That's like this is because your company is stalking you. And I mean, No, no, no, this no, no, Molly, you don't get to say that it's because the company saw you.

SPEAKER_26: This is because people are going to the gym for four hours around that you you're not putting a

SPEAKER_191: key shaker on there because the companies look at you. It's because you're not working the hours they're paying you for. No, I know a guy who used to work. He's still his company used to let him

SPEAKER_196: work from home two days a week before the pandemic. And he had a shaker plugged in. And he

SPEAKER_198: literally would go to the gym for like two hours in the middle of the day. And he would just be on Excel. And every like three minutes, the key shaker would just move. But was that because they

SPEAKER_14: were recording his desktop because of the status and like so if you're if your mouse goes idle for like over 10 minutes, your manager gets an alert. So he had a key shaker really? Yeah. Oh, what's

SPEAKER_203: that software called? I don't know. I have a better solution for this. Anyway, this is the kind of

SPEAKER_05: stuff that is causing this problem. Free pandemic. Exactly like okay, two things about this one, if people are over employed now, they were over employed before to every organization has hitters and sitters. If you are managing to outcomes, and you're not getting those outcomes, then you deal with your sitters. Like, I sort of think that there's this and much like how many people actually steal at a department store. This is not the majority of workers. And so the fact that it is leading to almost as always, right, like, it's like, when there's the one bad kid in class, the whole class gets punished. Yeah, that's what this feels like to the people who are at home working their asses up and picking their kids up and trying to take care of this and try and take care of that. And like, yeah, you know what, they go to the gym for an hour, because not dying is

SPEAKER_11: great. Like, but you're talking as a high performer Molly who works with a team of incredibly hard

SPEAKER_26: working high performers who put in 50 60 hours a week because they want to do great work in the world. If you were at I don't know an organization that was large and incumbent, do you think there were

SPEAKER_209: what percentage of people at a large org do you think are phoning it in more than 20% of the time

SPEAKER_05: they're phoning in it, whoever's phoning it in is phoning it in from anywhere. It does not matter if they're at home, okay, or in the office. And we all know those people who are sitting there playing

SPEAKER_211: Tetris at the office. Oh, well, that's why people went to open floor plans.

SPEAKER_05: Right. But that doesn't work either. You can still you can always find a way to f around if you want to like, it's just not. Yeah, I just do not think that it's the majority of people. And if

SPEAKER_07: you know, I don't think it's a majority, I think it's a significant minority. Like I think it's I would

SPEAKER_36: put it in the 30% course suggests it's the majority. And then and that is and and what's happening is that that is pissing people off. Right. So you're starting to see what I found. Yes.

SPEAKER_221: Right. And so managers are making this decision based on they hear these stories. And it's like,

SPEAKER_224: okay, we can't trust these people. We kind of get them in the office again, right?

Jason Calacanis: And this is gonna get worse 70 to 80%. Exactly. It's gonna get worse. And so now you're seeing this

SPEAKER_04: quiet quitting thing. Yeah. Have you seen this hashtag quiet quitting? No, it is this idea that people are like, you know what, I'm doing the minimum of what my job requires. Oh, and there was a really interesting Twitter thread about it by somebody, ironically, no name writer, which sounds about

SPEAKER_05: right, and said to trendy reporters out there helping to scare people, it's not quiet quitting, it's quietly no longer allowing your employer to commit wage theft. The pandemic showed us employers will flat out let us die, you get what you pay for. And they're only paying 62.4% of what they should requiring people to be available for contact at all times in a non emergency meeting is wage theft, requiring or pressuring people to answer calls and emails off work hours is wage theft. But that's

SPEAKER_04: right. This is the equal and opposite reaction. It is it is. And what I predict is that the more

SPEAKER_44: companies that do insist on this return from work, the more you're going to see and you're already starting to see a beer going to see more union drives. Because people are going to start to

SPEAKER_04: say, you know what, when I was at home, I got this much work done. Now you're requiring this and this and this and you're not going to pay me for it. And so I want to unionize and make sure that I

SPEAKER_36: only worked hours that I'm getting paid for like you're going to see years of push pull.

SPEAKER_118: If you're a remote startup, you need to sign up for notion point blank. My teams use it all day. It's our central hub, we basically run the whole company off of notion. Every single company we meet with as an investment team has a profile in our database. And then if I say to my chief of staff

SPEAKER_01: or somebody on the team who's a you know, an associate, we should check in with that company in three months, they can just put an ad mentioned there and say, Hey, remind me of this in three months. And boom, people get reminded. Or if you need a person to come and comment on a specific paragraph in your proposal to a client needs to put out Jason boom, and then I get a notification. 500 different apps have been integrated into notion already Google Slack, everything and everything is

SPEAKER_118: in one space that's simple, powerful, and beautifully designed. The workspace is totally customizable, it can fit any workflow or business model and notion can seamlessly transition from a workplace power tool and do a game changer for your personal life. I use it literally for my house, I keep every single appliance device, contractor, all of that stuff in a beautiful, beautiful notion instance for my house and for my ski house. Everybody loves notion you can get started today for free at notion.com slash twist. That's notion.com slash twist to start for free notion.com slash twist to take the first step towards an organized productive work and life today,

SPEAKER_23: you're gonna love it, it'll be great if there's unions, as I've talked about on this show before.

SPEAKER_144: Um, when unions come out, it just puts caps on people's salary, the tech industry would love love nothing would be better than to have unionization, they'll fight it. But oh my god, can you imagine like NPR or, you know, public radio? Or I know this from the business right as I left? Yeah, they

SPEAKER_23: started having unions, right? Yeah. Now, here's what happens to union. Okay, Kai Risdahl, quite a brand.

SPEAKER_26: Yeah, exactly. Molly Wood, quite a brand. Okay, you got these offers from, oh, this maniac, Jason

SPEAKER_246: Calacanis wants to give you a better. Hosts aren't in the union. There you go. Talents never in the union.

SPEAKER_26: Uh, not yet. Not yet. Because you will then be pressured. Yeah. Like happened at gimlet where the people who are in reply, oh, like, no, we don't want to be in the union. Yeah. You know why they didn't want to be in the union? They were getting paid more money because their show was number one. And they wanted to get paid based on their performance. And they had other options. And then they got shamed. Oh my god, you're racist. You know, you're white. You're not in the union.

SPEAKER_59: You don't support the other people. And I was like, no, I'm a high performer. I want to get paid the best possible salary. I don't want to be on a cap where like every three years I can apply to move up one rank, which is what happens when you work, you know, in a union for teachers or you work

SPEAKER_58: in a, you know, as a police officer or a firefighter, you know, there's like stages and your, your career has to follow a, you know, a very deliberate path. It'd be fantastic for tech. If that happened, oh my god, you're a level one, two, three engineer. Oh, no, I got a better off or whatever. It's like, no, you don't. We know what they pay a Google. And then that would just price fix the entire industry. Yep. And everybody, it would be. And it probably will. Exactly. They would love it. Tim Cook, Sundar, Satya, they would love it if high-tech workers unionize. High-tech workers are too smart to unionize. They'll never do it. Now, there are

SPEAKER_85: those moves toward the kind of hybrid unions, right? Is it Amazon? Somewhere they created a new kind of union. I mean, what you have to ask yourself is, do I want to? I'm not saying this is,

Jason Calacanis: I'm not passing a value judgment on whether this is a good or a bad outcome. But what

SPEAKER_05: I'm saying is that you're going to have your, you know, this is definitely going to happen. Because you're going to have your 70% of employees who are high performer, or let's say, let's say it's a 30, 30, 30, like it always is. You got 30 sitters, you got 30 people who just like get her done. They're perfectly fine. And then you have 30% high performers, right? Yep. The middle and the high performers are going to feel insulted and pissed by the implication that they have been goofing off at home this whole time. Yep. This is what I would have done.

SPEAKER_85: The average American ended up working like 11 hours more per week. Here's what I would have done if I

SPEAKER_156: was Apple. Yeah, I would have said we're doing a riff every manager, you know, out of every 10 people, you got every 20 people. Yeah, got to get rid of your bottom three performers. It's up to you. And

SPEAKER_23: then your, your manager will just talk you through it and make sure you made a good decision. And,

SPEAKER_26: you know, whatever, there'll be some process here. 15% riff, you get rid of the weakest people. You get rid of the 10-15% weakest people in any organization, basketball team, runners group, everybody's performance goes up. Yep. All the high performers enjoy their job more. It's just proven. It's not my opinion. It's just a fact. Yeah. Then what I would say is,

SPEAKER_01: we're going to have people work 47 weeks a year, five days a week, 250 minus 50, 235 days is what we used to come into offices. I'd say, you know what? 235 is what we used to do. We're now all going to come in for one third of that. That's 80. We're gonna come in for 80 days, could be a week in a row, could be two week sprint, a month off, whatever it is, you and your managers will figure it out.

SPEAKER_58: But that's our ballpark. We think 80 days of collaboration is the ballpark divided by, you know, 12 months, it's seven days a month, you and your managers figure out what seven days a month

SPEAKER_23: you're to get together or whatever, you know, pick some number, it could be 50. I don't know what the exact number is. But then people could have longer sprints together, not if they think that the job

SPEAKER_26: needs that. So now you solve both those problems. But there's another, it's always the second and third order impacts that I'm interested in. And that's what our conversation is here. And you have a really good insight. This, you know, slow quitting, or quitting, quiet quitting, which is really like,

SPEAKER_30: you're paying me, but I'm not working. It's like a little protest, it's I'm gonna do exactly the work you're paying me for. And that's it, right? No more than that. Here's the thing,

SPEAKER_26: great managers have figured out how to do this. So I'll go through my steps of how to be a better

SPEAKER_144: manager and do this because I'm going to write a follow up to my SOD EOD. You need to have people who are self motivated. And then you need to have each everybody in just everybody has to be

SPEAKER_59: accountable to each other, not up and down, but left and right. Just be accountable to each other to do

SPEAKER_26: the best job you can. And I'll get into that in a minute. But I think what's going to happen that people don't understand is that the people who fight for work from home, you better be a high performer, because what you just did was you are now competing with the globe,

SPEAKER_59: and managers previously did not know how to manage people off of, you know, out of offices. Now, all managers do know how to manage people out of offices. Now, some are bad managers still,

SPEAKER_26: but they know how to look at output, they know how to write a spec of work, they know how to share your calendar, time blocking, all this stuff is becoming top of mind for people. So then something happened to me, I was looking to hire SDR sales development reps. And then I tried magic again, which is just another like Fiverr, Zirtual, we were investors in Zirtual before I went under, and I was able to hire through magic for 10 bucks an hour, 15 bucks an

SPEAKER_58: hour, virtual assistants. And they're doing the work that would have cost an American previously, 30 40 $50 an hour, in America, in an office, not counting commutes or any of that. I'm just counting employee plus benefits. Yeah, these employees don't get benefits, they're outsourced, and they're on demand. So if you need 100 hours this month, and none. And I've done this now for a lot of tests,

SPEAKER_26: you've seen me do it. And it's working beautifully. So a whole category of work that I would say would be 50 to $70,000 jobs are now on demand jobs. And I think we probably spend $1,000 a month, 12 thousand a year for what I would have spent previously 50 to $70,000 on hiring a job for. Yeah. So you got to let that sink in. That's going to just keep happening. And people are doing this now for customer service. They're doing it for sales development. They're doing it for design. So designers now offshore in South America, developers in South America cost half a third of what they do in the US. The counter argument, of course, is that well, that's always existed. Not really. Two things didn't exist. Not those workers. Yeah, it didn't exist at scale. Those workers were not getting the phone phone calls from top companies, because the top managers had the luxury of hiring, you know, American workers who wanted to come to an office that they could bond with and build their little organization, they could have their designer and their SDR and everybody here. Now managers are like, I don't need another headcount for that. I'll save my headcount for, you know, a real heavy hitter. Or instead of having these three, you know, B level players, and it's not B level, it's a sort of like commodity work, or, you know, what becomes wrote, this is going to take the entire average of salaries down to a global average, and the global average,

SPEAKER_282: or up, right? Like, let's not up if you're out, if you're in South America, it's going up,

SPEAKER_283: and if you're in America, it's going down, normalize, it's going to normalize, it's going to normalize. Yep. But I'm just speaking from an American perspective, it's super interesting,

SPEAKER_05: it's economic globalization, right? Like, so far, we've had manufacturing globalization, where we outsource because it was cheaper, we are now going to outsource because it's cheaper. But there is the potential for, I mean, it will effectively be unlimited supply for these jobs. So I don't know that the prices are going to go, the economic benefit will be diffuse or slow in some of these other places that are able to provide talent in this way. But it could have a massive I mean, I completely agree, I think, like long term, that's what I also find sort of it's like depressingly short sighted the conversations that people like a Malcolm Gladwell is having about the way you have to work and the way you've always worked in the way offices have to be in the whatever because like, in fact, this is in so many ways COVID has been a hinge event, that's going

SPEAKER_290: to change every branch of the way that we live, you know, timeline has split, we're on a different

SPEAKER_62: timeline right now, we are a different version of the multiverse. And this multiverse says, you don't

SPEAKER_23: need to come to an office and you don't need to have these jobs in a typical company. So you used to have to have a server farm, that's AWS. You know, you used to have to have an accounting firm and an HR

SPEAKER_26: department, you know, that's one of these PEOs or outsource services, right? Everything becomes like a little API. Now the difference is managers now because of slack and teams, coda notion, all of these no code tools are also learning. Well, when I'm managing this $70,000 American, what do I get back from them? I get a Google sheet, I get an Excel, I get a notion page, I get a coda page, I get a snippet of code, I get a logo, I get an edited short video for tick tock, whatever the output is. Well,

SPEAKER_11: these managers are now going for managing culture, and meeting culture, whatever bullshit was happening in the office and arguing over parking spaces and espresso and the drinks and the fine bars. And you know, your dry cleaning, that's what the managers are dealing with culture. And you know,

SPEAKER_80: somebody's unhappy about this. And yeah, now all that goes to zero. Yeah, no more of that

SPEAKER_26: performative accoutrement, you know, you know, bribing people to be happy. There's no more bribing people to be happy. It's what your output, what your what your output, and then everybody becomes ruthless. On both sides, the freelancers are going to become ruthless. If you're the video editor who's doing Malcolm Gladwell's podcast for Pushkin Industries, and I come along and I'm like, he's underpaying you, I'll pay you more. The New York Times comes, I'll pay you more. New Yorker says we have unlimited budget, we'll pay you more, whatever it is, you know, Mark Andreessen and his future.com, you know, this incredible tech website, they launched, that's just crushing it.

SPEAKER_62: Like, you've read like four articles today on future.com. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They spent like 2 million on the domain name. I thought you said ever. I thought you said I've

SPEAKER_101: read four articles ever. Remember that? Remember, they were gonna do you remember that? Yeah,

SPEAKER_299: they were gonna be the meat. They were gonna be the absolute canonical, like, we had a truth,

SPEAKER_36: positive, we had a call, actually, blog, the it's time to blog. And then the recruiter

SPEAKER_05: called me later and was like, Hey, I just want to let you know, they're not even close. They're not within even a mile of your salary requirement. So yes, all those underpaid people who are just

SPEAKER_306: crushing it. God, I really am trying to get blocked. Who cares? It's I got unfollowed. Step one. Oh, oh, are you really? Yeah. Now he doesn't follow me to the club. It's not a full breakup. It's just a

SPEAKER_313: break. Listen, I want you to go to use bubbles.com slash twist right now, download it, do a quick product demo, and then tweet it to me, or email it to us at ask Jason at launch.co. And I will personally watch your product demo. And we might even put you on the show. Bubbles is an async collaboration tool that allows you to do teamwork on your own time. Bubbles helps you get your point across by creating a 3d conversation that includes screen audio and video. It is incredibly beautiful. And I have been using it when I'm giving feedback to my team about inside.com. Instead of me having to write down, Oh, I want you to do this, this and this, I show them this ability to communicate in real time straight from your browser with no download, no app required. And one click sharing is amazing. This product is super elegant. And it's perfect for code reviews, Q&A strategy, walkthroughs, and basically faster decision making. No more useless meetings, just use bubbles. Bubbles was built for remote workers by remote workers. And that's why it is so flawless. In a recent survey, 90% of survey users said bubbles helps them make better decisions. So visit use bubbles.com such twist to start using it. That's it. It's free to start using just head to use bubbles.com

SPEAKER_319: slash twist and send me your product demo. What do you got to lose? Maybe I'll invest.

SPEAKER_04: I completely agree with you. I think like, all of this is about the shifting of the power dynamic up to and including the response that managers are having, right? People are like, No, you're, you're, you're a worker who is my property, I need to be able to like see you and own you and own your time and know what you're doing all the time. And workers are like, Yeah, it turns out, no work is a contract, right? It's a it's a two way contract in which both people have equal dignity, regardless of their net worth. And you are entitled to my outcomes. Full stop, right? Well, here you're gonna end the idea that you could build a global workforce will change every dynamic that the crappy manager dynamic and the crappy worker dynamic, because we know that both exist in equal measure. I want to give advice to founders, right? This

SPEAKER_01: is this week in startups. Here's what founders should do. Number one, you have to separate out passion and motivation and enthusiasm for your company's mission and work product. Right? These

SPEAKER_59: can be two different things. So I'm just going to outline maybe three buckets here. It there obviously could be more but just three J cal buckets here. Your management team needs to be highly mission driven, right? You care about startups, you care about the future. Nick cares about startups. He loves business, like Rachel's obsessed with Gen Z and technology, like great, okay, the leaders, the full time people have to be motivated. And we've seen this here, right? We've had people who are amazing at editing videos. But maybe they don't care about stars, maybe they care about music, maybe they care about science fiction, who knows what they care about. And so they don't need to have

SPEAKER_01: the mission alignment. Those are contributors. And then there's freelancers. So let's just say mission driven people, they get a lot of equity, they get great comp.

SPEAKER_85: Mm hmm. And it's their actual personality to want to give all their time to work, right? Like,

SPEAKER_04: that's my style. Yeah, you I don't mean, literally, as you want me to, it's I just prefer it. I got bored on the beach and started doing work because I like it better. And those are the

SPEAKER_11: people who you've got that's a tier. That's the tier. That's your top tier. That's the most important tier in your company. You need to build relationships with them. You need to treat them really well. You need to check in on them. But you don't need to push them. Yeah, you can just have a conversation with them. When I have somebody like that, and they're not performing at a level, I'd literally just say to them, Hey, I noticed this didn't get done. I know that we both know this is

SPEAKER_26: not the level of work you do. Anything I can do to help here to drop the ball? Did you not have the resources you need? Did you just simply forget about it? And they're like, I forgot my bad. You

SPEAKER_11: know, they just take ownership, and everybody moves on. Then there's a second tier. Now these people could be full time, they may not hate the mission, or they're not required to be super enthusiastic,

SPEAKER_26: they just be highly competent. You can have highly competent people. They're not anti, they're generally good soldiers. They work hard product is consistent. But you don't need to manage them. But they also but they don't have the motivation. Okay, they shouldn't be in the top tier positions. But they can be in a second tier position, you just have to know they're going to leave and they're gonna give two weeks notice or they have no weeks notice. And you don't need to obsess over those folks. They're just like, I think they call them in the NBA like journeyman, they're going to come in, they're going to, you know, play the game, right, and fielders utility journeyman, whatever, totally adequate. Now there's the third tier, which I talked about before, which is like, you know, Fiverr magic, you know, all these great freelance places, and those people

SPEAKER_01: are going to do tasks for you. And you're going to Matt, you know, look at the output, and you're constantly going to say to them, Can you make this better? Can you do this cheaper, some combination of that, and then they're going to look at you and say, Can you pay me more for doing less? And this is called a marketplace. It's a natural ruthlessness. Yeah, the best thing a freelancer can do. Actually, I talked to my brother about this. He's an electrician. And he's like, he's overworked. I

SPEAKER_58: said, Josh, double your rates. And if you don't have half the people saying no, you're not doing your

SPEAKER_59: job. But if half the people say no, and you've doubled your rates, you're charging far too little, then you'll have the same income, and half the work. Yeah, he did it. It worked better than he expected. Good. He kept more than half. He's like, you're not gonna believe this. It's the best advice you ever gave me. I kept 90%. It's like, I lost one person, the person was the biggest pain in the ass. And now I'm making like 180% of what I was making. And I got, you know, whatever 10% of my time back was like, he's still hecka overworked.

SPEAKER_85: But now we could afford to maybe hire a helper. There you go. Exactly. So anyway, allocate wisely.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And so both sides should be doing this consistently. And both sides have now started to

SPEAKER_58: do this. And this is the big breakthrough I had with just SDRs. And I've seen other portfolio companies doing this and having great success. But I believe like design, even video editing, not for not for us, like doing the amount we do seven episodes a week. But for somebody who's doing

SPEAKER_253: like, one episode a week, of course, you would outsource it. Like, are you kidding me? And what does

SPEAKER_26: it matter to you if you're outsourcing to Manila, Hong Kong, South America, somebody in Tahoe, Europe or whatever? Best price, best service. On the other side, I'm going to keep raising my rates

SPEAKER_144: until people say no. And this is going to free everybody. And you just pick where you want to

SPEAKER_26: be. Now, you have to ask yourself as a worker, where am I? And what is my motivation in life? Yeah, the reaction to Malcolm Gladwell's, there were very funny reactions where people he was like, is this the life you want to live? No, like, yes. Yeah. No, like talk. Don't you want to be part of something? No. Yes. I'm part of my family. That's what I want to be part of. I don't want to be part of your company mission. And the delusion of us founders and capital allocators and creators in the world is we think everybody's going to be as enthusiastic as us. I left that a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03: Totally. I love you back, right? It's someone else's vision, unless it's yours.

SPEAKER_01: Right. And you can join a vision and be totally stoked and share a vision. Yeah, that's totally fine. But if you do not love capital allocation and startups, or building a business community, like you can't be at inside or launch or this week at startups, it's not going to work

SPEAKER_144: unless you look at it simply as a contract. And so this is going to become, I think, the standard standard for startups is even smaller teams relying more on freelancers.

SPEAKER_05: What I wonder about, as we imagine the like second and third order effects of this is what this does mean for like, if you have no work experience, right? Like, what, what, what do you do if you're the college student who comes out who would have gotten one of these jobs that is considered sort of like low pay and potentially expendable? Like on YouTube and teach yourself? Do we then have an entire collection of young people who are unemployable? No, they have to hustle and do it,

SPEAKER_10: they have to learn the skills themselves, because there's not going to be an office in all cases

SPEAKER_325: to go to and have a mentoring program, we're gonna need universal basic income. I'm just saying,

SPEAKER_219: no, no, because again, you're assuming everybody's 30%. Now, the problem with UBI, you're assuming that

SPEAKER_05: everybody is in either the top 60 or actually, right, if you if the if your advice is, you actually just have to go on YouTube and hustle and teach yourself, then you're assuming that everybody in America is a 30% high performer, and anybody who's not is SOL? Well, they're not going to get UBI,

SPEAKER_253: they're going to need to go work in jobs that kind of suck, because they're not motivated enough to add skills. That's the beginning and end of it. Now there's somebody's got to clean the bathroom.

Chamath Palihapitiya: UBI is a disaster. If you want to know what happens when you give people UBI, look during COVID, they buy NFTs, they get strange. No, no, no, no, no. They start gambling on crypto.

SPEAKER_04: Most Americans saved that money, credit card debt went to an all time low. Okay, like people used it.

SPEAKER_24: Well, they increase their household savings and they paid down their debt. And some people, some young people paid down their debt and saved like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_364: Tiny percent of people. Oh, please. What percentage of the American public is involved in crypto?

SPEAKER_176: They started buying AMC. Come on.

SPEAKER_04: How many humans bought AMC? Tens of millions of them went YOLO crazy. I agree. Even tens of, even if 30 million people did that, that's 1% of the American population. That is an extreme 10% of the reporters plus numbers equals mistakes. That's only 10%. And I'm assuming it's no more than 1% actually. I'm assuming it's 3 million.

SPEAKER_30: Well, you probably take out, you probably, you probably would take out the kids who are not working against the retirees. Let's say 3 million people. But yeah, so if you had 150 million people working. I do not believe for a second it was tens of millions of people. I do not. I believe it is. No way.

SPEAKER_293: I mean, just look at the, look at the statistics of Robin and Coinbase. They added millions of customers. Like, I think there were millions of people doing this, but if you also want to see UBI at work, you can, um, look at Saudi Arabia. UBI worked during the pandemic. UBI worked for the

SPEAKER_374: American household. I think it worked to not have people starve. Yes. And not be able to make their rent.

SPEAKER_140: Hunger went down. Food insecurity went down. Homelessness actually went down despite what everybody said was not happening. It worked.

SPEAKER_26: Absolutely the right thing to do in the short term, but if people do not have motivation and they don't work, their mind wanders, their mind wanders and young men who don't have work to do,

SPEAKER_58: you know what they do? They ride in the streets, they get violent, they get become extremists. It's been proven over and over again. Look at Greece, look at Spain, look at the Middle East. You get to 25% unemployment by men. What do they do? They wind up in the street, throwing bottles. It's like the, it's the known truth.

SPEAKER_24: Yeah, but we don't know if they do that when they're getting UBI. We just know what they do that when they're desperate and don't have any options.

SPEAKER_379: No, no. In those cases, they were getting UBI. They were, they were on the dole.

SPEAKER_58: America was giving people, you know, buckets of money every month. I'm not saying like, there shouldn't be a safety net, but there should be a baseline. We kind of have unemployment as a safety net and some other stuff, but I just feel like UBI is beautiful in principle, but man, if people are not motivated, not productive in society, it's not a society I want to live in. I think it's going to be, it'll lead to unintended

SPEAKER_04: consequences. Like we, you can't imagine, but then you do have to have a mechanism to hire the people who come out of school who are like medium talented, medium motivated. That's most

SPEAKER_05: people. Most people are medium talented, medium motivated. What were your first jobs?

SPEAKER_352: I mean, I got hired by a national news organization while I was still in college, but that's different. I'm not a medium.

SPEAKER_384: Okay, Molly, but do you have any jobs in college?

SPEAKER_06: How many jobs in college? It's hard to make this. I had some jobs in college before I became the editor-in-chief of my daily paper.

SPEAKER_05: No, I worked at a shelter. I mean, this is like, I don't mean to sound like a total, I worked at a shelter for abused and neglected children in college.

SPEAKER_58: Well, okay. You got paid to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I worked at Amnesty International. In high school, I worked at a grocery store. That did happen. Perfect. That's what I'm talking about. So listen, you and I come from a certain amount of privilege probably, or at least had an educational lane that was available to us

SPEAKER_390: that we took advantage of. And you're talking about people who maybe don't go to college, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_58: There are, what do they call them? Bottom of the rung or, you know, starter, you know, starter jobs, like starter careers, like you have to start somewhere. Driving for DoorDash, good segue here. You know, working at Starbucks, like those jobs let you learn how to open a bank account, you know, manage your checkbook, pay your rent, and realize, yeah, maybe I should do something. This is hard work.

SPEAKER_393: But you're basically saying we're gonna outsource all starter jobs.

SPEAKER_58: You can't outsource the Starbucks ones. But you can outsource the some of the knowledge ones. So

SPEAKER_05: for knowledge, how do you ever become the middle? You know, how do you ever like, like, you if you stratify your workforce that much, and you just say, like, the only people who are employable full time in the United States are middle to highest possible performers, then

SPEAKER_85: and there's no sort of starter level available, then where are you going to get them? Right?

SPEAKER_58: Where's your supply? Yeah, it's it's this is going to be a challenge. I'm not saying this is what I want. I'm predicting this is what will happen. Like a lot is going to change. A lot's going to

SPEAKER_26: change. And to your point, this benefits people us losing the factory workers here was terrible for America, right? All those was terrible $30 an hour factory jobs, which were incredible, right? You just didn't even have a high school degree, you could go work in a car plant and make 30 bucks an

SPEAKER_59: hour. Or you could work in a place that made, you know, masks or whatever and make 30 bucks an hour in the union fought free and you got, you know, a pension, all this crazy stuff. And we put it in China, who benefited a billion? Well, 500 million people who are living in abject poverty, like under $2 a day, they benefited, they moved into the middle class. So we wiped out our middle class, but we took

SPEAKER_58: poor people there. So if you were to look at it strictly for the humanity basis, a huge gain for

SPEAKER_05: humanity. Yeah, well, that's and that was that's the art that has always been the argument for globalization, a rising tide will lift all boats. And we never want to acknowledge and I will say that when President Barack Obama did an absolutely terrible job of ever acknowledging that some boats

SPEAKER_04: sink. Yeah, and that you have to have a plan for what to do about those boats. Because if you don't,

SPEAKER_399: then you get Trump right after you. Yeah, we definitely capsized a bunch.

SPEAKER_04: And so we can't just sort of say like, Oh, yeah, a bunch of this whole team, I mean, we can say it. And it is likely to be what happens. And the seeds of the next revolution are being planted right now by the idea that a lot of people will be like, you know what, I just don't want to deal with employees. So I'm just gonna like, pay less to get it, you know, on fiber or from the Philippines. And that's the bigger, again, some of some boats are gonna raise, and some boats are

SPEAKER_07: gonna sink. The bigger problem is, if you hire SDRs, like I know a lot of all SaaS companies have to

SPEAKER_293: hire SDR sales development reps, okay, it's a grinded out job, right? You're trying to get leads, you're trying to get people to get on phone calls. It's a hard job, job only pays 40 grand 50 grand US

SPEAKER_253: still a great job, you know, especially for work from home, it's pretty sweet job, you can't hire

SPEAKER_293: people for these jobs, they won't take them. It's too painful, it's too arduous, for Americans. Yeah. Now, if you're in Manila, or if you're in South America, and Latin America, and this job pays, you know, $12,000 a year. And you don't have to work at a restaurant or, you know, drive a bus or whatever, and you can work from your home. They're like, they're, they're like, they can't believe

SPEAKER_26: they're getting paid this amount. And so it even for the people who wanted to hire Americans to these jobs, the Americans would take them. And that's the other part of this is like, we have a level of entitlement in this country, a level of security where people can opt out.

SPEAKER_293: And you do have people opting out saying, you know what, I'll just drive Uber twice a week, or DoorDash twice a week, I'll live, I'll cohabitat with somebody, right? So if I lower my burn,

SPEAKER_26: I work the best shifts at DoorDash, where like, it's the weekends or the, you know, four o'clock to eight o'clock when dinner is being delivered, I know it can do three rides an hour, I'll do those only. And they just sort of like craft their own life, that maybe doesn't include, you know, high spending, but includes a lot more free time. And so I think that's, that's the adaptation I see happening is people living in low, living a lower cost lifestyle, lowering their monthly nut, and then using gig work to supplement. And then, you know, whatever, five, six people living in a house,

SPEAKER_325: in a more modern family, way lower carbon emissions. Let's go. Yeah, for the way. It's

SPEAKER_144: so hard, the chessboard is moving so dynamically right now. Yeah. But I'll just tell you the things

SPEAKER_26: I came to, with my own work from home stuff briefly, if you want to work from home, you need to, it's your responsibility to work from home plate, all work from home employees who want to remain remote, should adhere to these, so they can keep remote work, you must have an office, a space with a closed door, proper lighting, proper zoom setup. Okay, that's illegal, you cannot require somewhere,

SPEAKER_44: you're going to require people to be able to afford two bedroom apartments, really? No, no,

SPEAKER_11: you could be in your one bedroom. What I'm talking about is people who are, have their kids with them,

SPEAKER_26: and they're in the living room, and there's people walking behind them, those kind of situations are what tweak managers who don't want people to work. What if you can't do anything about that? Sure

SPEAKER_253: you can. If you have a bedroom, you can set up a space. What if you don't have a bedroom? You live in a studio apartment? Yes. If you're alone in a studio apartment, it'd be fine. Anyway,

SPEAKER_58: the point is, you cannot dictate people's housing. Oh, yeah, you can. Actually, they will. It is

SPEAKER_26: required to have a quiet room if you want to be a customer support rep, like a JetBlue and those kind of things. If you if you don't have a room with a closed door, that was the rule for JetBlue, then you can come to one of the call centers. And that is going to be one of the key things here. Second, have Ethernet, and you got to have childcare. This is another thing that's tweaking

SPEAKER_59: managers. People are not having childcare having kids at home during the day. I've had this situation

SPEAKER_416: a couple of times. Mom's like, sorry, you're screwed. Well, if you don't have childcare,

SPEAKER_59: you can't take care of a kid and be on calls at the same time. Dad or mom, I've been in this

SPEAKER_58: situation. It's just impossible. Now, at a certain age, kids, they can take care of themselves, whatever the 12 year olds is different. I'm talking about like, I'm just saying you're gonna

SPEAKER_09: get sued. If you're telling people you have to not you personally, I'm just saying if you're telling people you have to have childcare, what does that mean? You have to have childcare, your childcare can

SPEAKER_26: never get sick. No, no, you can't be working on phone calls with a kid on your lap in an open space. So these are the requirements that are going to become codified. I believe you're gonna have to

SPEAKER_58: have a perfect setup with Ethernet, you'd have to have a quiet room with a closed door, you have to have childcare, and you're gonna have to work a specific block of time. And some of these things are already in place, and they have been in place for years. So like for customer support reps, that's what JetBlue did. I remember talking to the because it was a radical idea to let people work from home 20 years ago, and JetBlue did that. And they said, this is the, you know, the what they call covenants, like, these are the covenants, you got to have childcare, you can't be on the phone, like helping somebody and then have a kid screaming in the background. So quiet room door locked. And, you know, proper headset, yada, yada, proper, you know, Ethernet, like I always talk about. And so, and then I think the time block is super important. Because what's happening now is people are making their own hours, and then people are not overlapping. So it doesn't need to be everybody works the same eight hours, but organizations need to come up with like a four hour block or five hour block that everybody says, hey, 10 to three, we're all going to be online at the same time. So we can collaborate as opposed to, you know, whatever. Now that's going to be difficult, you know, if you happen to live out of the three hour continental United States. But again, if that's your decision as a remote worker, you're going to have to make that agreement or go into an office for work for a company in your time zone. So I think that this these are the again, back to second and third order effects, I think these are the things that will make remote work permanent. So to the extent people want this to be a permanent thing, the people who are working remote need to think about what is tweaking the employer

SPEAKER_422: and reverse it, right? This is my advice to that side. Yeah, I hear you. But I think you're also

SPEAKER_04: saying the only person who has any input in power here is the manager, right? Like, if I get my work

SPEAKER_05: done, is it my problem that the manager is tweaked? Well, like, if you if your goal is outcomes,

SPEAKER_04: right, and you get those outcomes, then you might not like the appearance of the child on the zoom, right? But if there is no evidence whatsoever that that has been a problem, then, you know, you're still putting all the power in the hand of, like, what I'm saying is when you start to see the no, see, you're saying the employer has all the power and the person is your property.

SPEAKER_22: It's a no, I was about to say, no, I was about to recognize what you're saying and saying, both parties have to opt in, I was actually gonna say the opposite, which is, but you know,

SPEAKER_26: it's like, or don't take the job, right? So what I see happening is what happened in the call center

SPEAKER_325: space. I that was the only centers are such a specific kind of job. It is. And that job, I think,

SPEAKER_26: they figured out how to make it work, because you could trust the person wasn't screwing around, because you saw the number of calls they're doing, you could you then they set this sort of system up. They even have desktop monitoring. So like your entire system is monitored. I'm not an advocate of that. I think that's kind of creepy. But I do think that this is where this is headed, because of the overwork.com overwork subreddit and all this stuff is that managers who can't figure this out. And employees who are abusing it are going to ruin it for everybody else. And then there just has to be some right contract made like a social contract to bridge those two extremes. I'm not saying I this is what I'm doing. I'm doing something very different here. But I just hire a players and fire people who are B players. I have a different approach to that. If you're a B player, you can't be on this team, you're going to be a freelancer and freelancers might love that, right? Like even at inside, I have this we have full time people writing newsletters. Some people I don't call them B players, they just want more freedom. And I just say, Okay, we'll just pay your pro newsletter. And people like you will. And I'm like, Well, why wouldn't I like right, right, don't have to pay your benefits, you get to pay your hours within reason,

SPEAKER_04: what most managers what most like people, the best managers I've ever encountered are the ones who can recognize the skills of an individual and, and make accommodations to make that individual

SPEAKER_05: successful understanding that those accommodations may not be available to someone who's less successful. Most managers, most people don't want to do that. It's more work, like it is way easier to have one solution that solves every issue, you think, right, you will normalize performance. In some ways, you'll get like less out of your high performers and maybe more out of your low performers by having a one size fits all response. And we have always wanted to sort of avoid having to manage individuals. And at really, really big companies, it's very hard. So you can imagine why you just go straight to policy, because it's a lot easier to handle. It's what I'm trying to say, what do you

SPEAKER_58: think the reasonable policies are to address these concerns, I think it's going to just also be some contractual stuff in HR. Whereas if you know, specifically with this idea of like, you have to clear work with your boss, if you're going to do outside work, you know, it's not totally legal for you. But you do have to clear it. I mean, I have that policy, people want to take outside jobs here. Just let me know. I think actually, yeah, people who are that's super standard. Yeah, super

SPEAKER_221: standard. So it's gonna be interesting to watch. I think that's all super standard. And I think

SPEAKER_150: it's gonna be it's a higher bar for managing is what it really is. It has been, you know what,

SPEAKER_01: once you get into the rhythm of it, I'm in the rhythm of it. Now, I have solved it. I do the other innovation I came out with is co working. Or what do they call it when you're working together,

SPEAKER_440: but not to say in a meeting. Parallel like you're on a huddle and you're, there's a term for this.

SPEAKER_325: Yes. Rachel says it's co working. It is. Yeah, it's kind of like when kids do what's called parallel play. So they'll have like, Oh, yeah, kids at a table. Yeah, my brother, I used to do this with

SPEAKER_85: bowls games when I was younger and living in Omaha, and he was in North Dakota, he would call me and

SPEAKER_05: we would just sit on the phone on long distance because we didn't know any better for hours, and just watch the bowls game. Sure, we wouldn't talk, we would just watch the game and then like cheer when something happened or whatever. That's basically what our production team does all the time.

SPEAKER_26: This what Malcolm Gladwell was talking about this disconnect can be solved. So I'm doing tests at inside.com. Now, instead of having people, we would have three people writing three newsletters. And I said, I want you to run an experiment. Have those three people on a huddle. For people don't

SPEAKER_253: know, that's just audio only on Slack, or you could do a zoom, and you can have your camera off or blur, whatever, you don't have to be on camera the whole time. I know that could be creepy for people,

SPEAKER_11: but have three writers. And each of these inside newsletters has seven stories in it. So three

SPEAKER_253: newsletters is 21 objects, if you think about it, little short summaries, in the format I created.

SPEAKER_26: So have three people do two, you know, one person does three stories for inside NFTS, then they move on to inside crypto, then they move on to inside podcasting, but they work as a group. And they say, Oh, I'm going to do this story. This looks the most interesting. And then somebody else says, Oh, we did that yesterday. And it's okay, let me read it and make sure. Okay, yeah, you know what, there's no new news. Alright, I'm gonna do this one. And they say, Oh, okay, great. I was thinking about that when I'll do this one. And then they say, Okay, I'm done with this one. I'm moving on to this one. So you're there's no manager involved. Nobody's like, did you get this done? How many

SPEAKER_11: minutes does it take? But you're working as a group together to craft a newsletter, like we do here crafting a podcast, it's more fun, and you feel less isolated, and you feel like you're part of

SPEAKER_44: something, right. And so I think this is what there are a million ways to do this that don't involve some old version grafted on to some new, you know, it's it doesn't have this is a completely new

David Friedberg: version of it. Think about it. Yeah, it's a great word for it. Yeah, it's like you're you're

SPEAKER_26: breaking apart work. And then saying, How do I make this like a barn raising? How do I make this like we're all painting the fence together, but virtually? Yeah. And I'm finding like, it's actually jazzing people up. And it's get we're getting to know our writers better. And then they're making each other better. So like you could go run alone for seven miles, or you could run with two other people for seven miles, which is going to be better. Mm hmm. Kind of better to run with other

SPEAKER_58: people I think. And so this is what I encourage people to do is look for opportunities like that to co work or parallel play or parallel projects. All right, I think we've talked about this for a lot.

SPEAKER_461: I know we really have. All right, everybody. That is the future of remote work. A topic you thought

SPEAKER_377: was dead. But tell us what you think. I would like to hear from people what's working for their

SPEAKER_58: company. If they have any hacks or techniques, I'm, I'm always thinking, you know, I'm always thinking about the path forward. And what are the good techniques? Yeah. And who like, what are the second and third order effects? I think this is going to be tremendous on mentoring people, you know, we do it here. This week in startups does a huddle in the morning, where they talk about the

SPEAKER_253: news. And I think that changed everything, right, Nick, it made it more fun, you guys get to know each other to develop some friendships. It was definitely good. Yeah. All right. Well, listen,

SPEAKER_58: speaking of gig work, I saw some kind of deal between DoorDash and Meta. Maybe you could

SPEAKER_85: tee this up for us. Exactly. Speaking of, we are going to talk about other news today, because we didn't get to this yesterday. And it's super interesting. On Monday, DoorDash and Meta

SPEAKER_05: announced this partnership where DoorDash drivers will now deliver items purchased through Facebook Marketplace. So if you're not familiar with Facebook Marketplace, it's basically new Craigslist, or kind of like next door, people sell all kinds of stuff. A lot of it is, I find like there's like drop shipping type stuff where they just sort of order from China as soon as you order it. But it's also a lot of people selling reselling stuff, circular economy kind of thing. And the biggest and Facebook has, it really pushes you if you ever sell anything on Facebook Marketplace, they really, really push you to offer delivery, which is hard in some cases. And now they're partnering with DoorDash to just make this delivery thing super easy, which I think is fascinating because I think that Marketplace, Facebook Marketplace is like the silent killer. This thing is quietly huge.

SPEAKER_01: And it's all used goods, where people using it like Etsy and eBay, where eventually people, you know, were selling brand new socks on it. And they were kind of creating like Shopify kind

SPEAKER_85: of stores is becoming like a Shopify type of competitor. I think it's definitely a Shopify

SPEAKER_04: competitor, like people started out selling used stuff. And you can definitely find that there that exists, you can buy somebody as old, you know, there's a lot of that. But I also like I bought a gardening bench. And then I was like, Oh, this is clearly just a dropship thing where multiple vendors

SPEAKER_05: are selling the exact same garden bench that they just ordered from one factory in China as soon as they get an order. But there's a little bit of everything in there. And you know, this is totally random. But when I was on vacation, I was stand up paddleboarding with a guy from Iowa, like you do at a resort in Mexico. Yeah. And he I was Oh, I was saying you should get because he was like, this is really fun. I should get a paddleboard. I'm like, dude, you got to go inflatable. Those things are awesome. And then he's like, I wonder if I could find one on Facebook marketplace. Wow. Everybody I know, only shops on Facebook marketplace these days. That's what he said. Yeah, he's like, it's huge. Everybody like you check there first, and then you look somewhere else

SPEAKER_144: for stuff. It's kind of like a super app concept when you think about it. So now DoorDash will be doing deliveries for things bought on the Facebook marketplace. Is that the headline I saw? Yeah,

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly. So if you buy it on Facebook marketplace, and then presumably if you're a seller, you would be able to offer it a little more cheaply. Yeah, this has to do with Tony.

SPEAKER_144: Tony from DoorDash, where I remember meeting when he was launching it. And they were real serious

SPEAKER_56: hackers. And I'm friendly with Stanley, the other co founder, we play cards together. Sometimes he

SPEAKER_11: plays cards on a lot of live streams now. Tony is on Facebook sport. And he's friends with Zuck.

SPEAKER_144: So this is an inside job. This is an inside job. It's an inside job. And so what this really is, is this is great for DoorDash, because it gives their drivers one more thing to do, right? One more

SPEAKER_05: way to make money. It totally very smart on there. And it enables more sellers on marketplace, because they I think what they have probably found is the ones that offer delivery are obviously the most popular, right? Like, yes, I drove all the way to Albany to pick up a like, cute rug that I bought a next door this weekend, but I didn't want to, if I could have gotten it delivered for like the same prices getting, you know, Chinese food on DoorDash, I definitely would have done it. So the service basically will let people deliver anything that can fit in a car trunk, and they're up to 15 miles away. So in terms of enabling circular economy and reselling stuff. Amazing, great, brilliant deal. Look out for Facebook marketplace,

SPEAKER_07: silent killer. Fascinating. I guess the loser in this is Craigslist, I guess people or eBay.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and next door and possibly Etsy and Shopify, you know, I mean, this is a new store. This is right. This like don't sleep on Facebook marketplace. This is a way bigger deal than the metaverse. Like this is there. This is an Amazon competitor. Well, if Amazon is

SPEAKER_144: going to do advertising, then why wouldn't Facebook, you know, start selling stuff, right? And this is why, you know, when you get to a certain scale, everything kind of is trending towards a super

SPEAKER_253: app where all services will offer all things, right? This is why, um, I think, you know, I'm still a large shareholder in Uber, uh, or it's still my largest position of all public companies. And I really am impressed with like that. They put on the goal belly type business. And I'd like to see them keep pulling that string and see where it leads them. I very much would like to,

SPEAKER_144: uh, see more, uh, hotels and event ticketing and that kind of stuff on the Uber app. I think that

SPEAKER_23: would be extraordinary. They already do delivery. I literally was in a situation where somebody had forgotten their passport and they didn't know that Uber did this, but in Uber, there's a delivery

SPEAKER_144: and you just click delivery and the person comes and picks it up and they give you a receipt and you sign for it. And so people don't know Uber does this, but when you're on the main interface, it just says their delivery. So you can already, if you're a Facebook merchant, just click delivery and do it there, but this will be integrated into the transaction. I'm assuming probably. Yeah. All right. Uh, just an update on a quick J trade update. Um, people saw that and wondering people have been wondering, uh, Dan Loeb from third point bought on Monday, a billion dollars in Disney shares. Of course, he's, uh, Dan Loeb, one of the great, uh, investors of this generation and clearly watching J trading, uh, like Hawk and he followed me into the Disney trade, uh, but he's an activist. Disney shares jumped and you know, I think I had bought 250 and one of my thesis, uh, my thesis on this J trading was, Hey, if we find great companies, we, we want to over time increase our position. And then we had 250 shares of, uh, Disney, but, uh, I saw Dan Loeb's enthusiasm and thought time to quadruple down. So incoming J trade. J trade alert. I bought another 750 shares. So I think it might be my largest position now.

SPEAKER_85: Damn. It's, uh, it's getting up there. Um, so Loeb making moves too. He wrote a note to Disney CEO,

SPEAKER_24: Bob Chapek, are the glasses coming out? Is it happening? Is it happening? He's literally trying to read it. It already happened. I'm not going to do it. He already

SPEAKER_21: bought it, but it's not a live share. Um, I already, it's not, I bought it a couple of days ago.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah. But I just went, oh, yesterday I bought it. So what do you think about these moves then? So you're buying on the theory that a Disney is going to continue to get strong, but also that Daniel Loeb's moves such as encouraging Bob Chapek to spin off ESPN. Uh, and some of his activist moves are going to be to the good of Disney to the benefit. Um, yeah, I think generally speaking,

SPEAKER_01: when a smart person, uh, gets involved and buys a position and they have influence great. And he wants the shares to go up in value, right? This is, you know, not, this is not me buying shares. This is somebody who is like a professional investor who is doing this for a living, who really wants to, um, make money. So, yeah, I think it builds my thesis that this is an undervalued, tremendously important company. Uh, I, I could see ESPN. I get the spinning out of ESPN to me would be great. Cause we would get shares in ESPN. Then we would have management at ESPN that would just go for it. Right. You know, it's like when eBay spun out PayPal, as he mentions here, he says, we believe that most arrangements between the two companies can be replicated contractually in a way eBay spun PayPal will continue to utilize the product to process payments. Uh, he also urged Tappic, uh, to rush to complete the Hulu acquisition, uh, which would be great,

SPEAKER_266: right? Comcast has an agreement to sell 33% stake in Hulu to Disney in two years.

SPEAKER_144: So it might as well as crushing it. Yeah. Anyway, that was great. And okay. So in other J trading news, I don't know what's going on, but stitch fix is up 24%. I'm not sure what my cost basis is here, but, uh, and if I had my grandpa

SPEAKER_293: glasses, I could actually read my screen. Uh, but I don't, I mean, this is the problem with the Robin.

SPEAKER_491: I literally cannot read my Robin hood here. What was that hilarious thing you said the

SPEAKER_419: other day? You had to be a Falcon. I don't know. Anyway, let's see. I'm looking. Oh, I got it.

SPEAKER_144: I bought 5,000 shares at $6 and 27 cents average. I am up 40%. I think I'm up like 40%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: I'm looking at, uh, the Motley Fool on what happened. Investors are saying they may have been too hasty

SPEAKER_05: in abandoning this apparel stock. Pretty great. Also, if you are required to go back from to work, I'm just saying, you know what you really need? What new clothes that a stylist

SPEAKER_85: picked out for you because you have no freaking idea what to wear. I think. Yeah. But anyway,

SPEAKER_266: uh, it looks like the J trading portfolio is doing great. Um, except for Warner Brothers Disney,

SPEAKER_136: which we'll get to, uh, anything on tap for tomorrow, we should talk. So anyway, check in on stiff stitch fix or there's not investing advice. It's just me learning in public.

SPEAKER_26: Although I am getting a lot of inbound about me learning in public. I don't know if you saw, like a lot of people are sending me tips like, Hey, check out this stock or check out this stock.

SPEAKER_85: People love learning in public. Like I would say probably the number one comment that I get is that

SPEAKER_05: people love the VC Sunday school and then what they, people really like, uh, basic vulnerability, like the ability to say, I do not know a thing. Yes. And let's all learn that thing together. Shouldn't be so difficult in the world, but it people, it's really helpful. Like,

SPEAKER_04: I always felt as a journalist that it was the most useful and even on VC Sunday school

SPEAKER_44: to be able to just say like, I'm going to just ask the dumb question. Cause somebody out there

SPEAKER_144: doesn't know. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people are telling me the strategies of like, Hey, if you, you should be putting puts and calls and this, uh, on these trades and I'm like, seems very complicated, but maybe, uh, I will learn how to do one of those. Like, Oh yeah. If you, if you're buying the

SPEAKER_11: shares and you believe it's going to go up, then you could do this to protect your downside, or you could do this to optimize your upside. Have you ever done any of these puts and calls and

SPEAKER_266: shorted anything? Oh God, no, I'm too stupid for that. Are you kidding? I never, well, I mean,

SPEAKER_58: it's just like a gambling technique that I think I want to learn. So we could all learn in public.

Jason Calacanis: I just keep reading the Kalshi article on how to hedge. Like I'm super into the hedging against

SPEAKER_04: real world things on Kalshi. I'm still, that's as complicated as I'm going right now. I've become

SPEAKER_24: a little obsessed with Kalshi. Interesting. So while you, I have not yet, I have funded my Kalshi account, but I haven't done anything. I haven't bought any contracts yet, but I'm like real interested in this hedging. So we could start making Kalshi.

SPEAKER_30: Kalshi bets. Maybe we can start making Kalshi bets. I mean, maybe they need to sponsor the pod. Shout out Kalshi. Maybe if we are obsessed with it as a source of data and just an interesting,

SPEAKER_06: like, yeah, I'm well, here's the thing when you play my kind of gambling, here's my theory. And I,

SPEAKER_01: this has been proven. When you place bets, you have skin in the game, you learn faster.

SPEAKER_59: Mm hmm. Kind of like if you're going to learn how to fight and you get punched in the face and

SPEAKER_01: you're boxing, you actually get hit. You kind of learn to block and to not get hit. So, you know,

SPEAKER_144: the, the lessons I think come faster and you learn them deeper. Yeah. Kind of like playing poker. If you're playing poker for no money, it's like, you don't really learn anything, but we start playing for money. You're like, ah, what, how did I make that mistake? So again, I want to start, you know, just continuing to learn how to make these financial bets. And I like this idea of making bets based on world events. And because that would mean you learn more macro, right? Right. You see, making macro bets, and I think really interesting.

SPEAKER_136: Predictive markets are so interesting. I'm so into predictive markets. Yeah, I think I may get in on this with you. If you have any ideas of predictive markets, that'd be good places to do this. You can,

SPEAKER_144: of course, email producers at This Week in Startups. The other thing is, we had a crypto roundtable. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to it last week with Vinny Langham and Sandeep Madra.

SPEAKER_26: So we're not going to do that next week. But we'll do it the week after. And so you can join me, Molly, on that. And then the four of us will talk about crypto, because these guys are actually like

SPEAKER_11: doing work and building companies. I actually may want to J trade some crypto. So I was like, hey, what's going on with Doge? Because I checked out this my Doge app that Billy made. Yeah. And

SPEAKER_144: they're like, you know, they add 5% of the supply of Doge every year. So it's not like an appreciating asset in that way. In all likelihood, it's going to be more like currency, you know, like you use it more than right, you actually use it. So it's like, Oh, okay, I didn't even think about that, right? I don't know about supply and demand of these things. But that could be an interesting thing, too, is to kind of learn. Yeah, if actually, I think my thesis is not a tiny portfolio at risk here.

SPEAKER_148: Well, it's not going away. It's not like it's not going to zero. It's not going away.

SPEAKER_07: I liked Howard Linson's comments on Friday, where he said, like, it's just more internet. And I was like,

SPEAKER_01: that's the best framing for this. Like, these are new features of the internet, stop calling a web three stop. It's just more internet. Yeah. And more internet if NFTs, you know, have certain rights or smart contracts, like, yeah, smart contracts are like, okay,

SPEAKER_58: yeah, you have a website, and you can put a smart contract in it. And it goes to this network, and it gets executed, and nobody has a say in it, right? Like it just, there's some oracle that tells you the price of we made a bet on the temperature, right? Mm hmm. Or I made a bet on how much snow there was going to be this year. Right. And I bet, if I bet $1,000, that we're going to have a

SPEAKER_59: really terrible snowfall, and I win that bet. Yeah, I get $1,000 and I use it to go fly somewhere with this good snow. Yep. If we have record snowfall, and I lose it, I had record snowfall,

SPEAKER_53: and I got to do all the skiing. Exactly. So it's like, wow, I place that bet of the number of feet of snow in Tahoe this year. If I win, if I lose, I win. Yeah, because there's snow for me to ski on.

SPEAKER_07: That's why I'm so into the hedge thing. And if I lose, I take the winnings,

SPEAKER_04: and I go to Park City. Like the example that he gave that the example that Kalshi gives in

SPEAKER_05: its little tutorial is like, let's say you have tickets to a baseball game, you spend 100 bucks on them, and there's a 50% chance of rain or 70% chance of rain. And if it doesn't, if it rains, you're going to lose your 100 bucks, because you're not going to go to the game. So you could go on Kalshi instead, and buy contracts, you know, you spend $10 to buy $100 to win $100 on something that's a pretty you take the most likely outcome. So then if it rains, you don't lose $100 because you make it on your Kalshi contract. And if it doesn't rain, then you're in the money on both sides. So interesting.

SPEAKER_548: Super interesting. All right, everybody. So

SPEAKER_550: More market manipulation ahead. Yay, this is not investment advice.

SPEAKER_05: It's not investment advice. We'll be back tomorrow with more news and another episode of everybody's other new favorite about learning in public the blueprint.

SPEAKER_11: Blueprint. Oh, is the blueprint back tomorrow? Great. Oh, and by the way, I might have a leak. It can't confirm this Molly. But I think I've been getting some DMS from somebody inside of Adam

SPEAKER_144: Newman's company, there's somebody inside. It could be somebody on round, or inside his organization,

SPEAKER_11: I don't actually know, but they've been leaking to me some future plans. And I got to check I you know, I think because we're doing journalism here. And I think some of this information is quasi public, I'm gonna have to check with some attorneys. Embargo. But tomorrow, I'm going to share

SPEAKER_58: one of the future plans for Adam Newman's flow. He's actually got some product extensions and somebody told me about one of them. And so I'm going to share it with you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_556: It's gonna be amazing, everyone. Don't miss it.