SPEAKER_00: i get to say the following words on twist hayley welch the woman who went viral for the hawk to a phenomena launched a meme coin and guess what jason it has not turned out to be a blue chip SPEAKER_03: investment what if what hayley's entertainment lawyer said is true and she's locked up for a year SPEAKER_05: well all the pre-sale guys already have sold yes they've cleared it kind of uh you know you know SPEAKER_07: she's a mark for them yeah theoretically here i don't know the details but i think she's the mark SPEAKER_10: this week in startups is brought to you by linkedin ads to redeem a 100 linkedin ad credit and launch your first campaign go to linkedin.com this week in startups vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast twist listeners can get a thousand dollars off for a limited time advanta.com twist and ramp the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and money get 250 when you join ramp today at ramp.com twist all right everybody welcome back Chamath Palihapitiya: to this week in startups i'm your host jason calacanis here with my co-host alex wilhelm we SPEAKER_17: have a full news docket it is friday december 6th 2024 it's still 2024 and there's a lot going on obviously everybody wants to know my comments on david sacks and him being named uh as a white house advisor around ai and cryptocurrency i will give my thoughts on that towards the second half of the show but i know you love the numbers alex and uh we've got two great guests today we have coffee zilla SPEAKER_18: on to talk about the hawk to a coin yes and we're gonna have another guest talk about his incredible insights into developers but there's a bunch of other stuff going on that we should talk about yeah SPEAKER_00: so first up just for everyone out there who cares about the economic side of things today was jobs day if you track economic data this is always the best day of the month so according to bls government data jason total non-farm payroll employment rose by 227 000 in november that was better than an expected 214 000 number okay but the good news is that people are still pricing in an 85 chance of a rate cut in december okay this month so it's not going to slow down the uh the rate reductions that everyone's SPEAKER_17: so excited about you know i i'm a little concerned that the uh inflation might come back maybe i'm a little bit uh gun shy perhaps but i this is such a maelstrom you know sometimes there's a storm and you know when the storm ends you get like pockets of chaos you know as the skies are clearing so you're kind of coming out of the storm as we come out of this inflation storm it's going to be a lot of SPEAKER_27: conflicting data we obviously have had a stock market that's ripped in the final year or two of biden's administration and now with the trump bump you and this data about jobs is very perplexing to me because we're seeing in our industry no additional jobs and people are not adding a bunch of employees but i know i'm adding employees and things are going really good at our firm so i keep adding people but i'm seeing other people with the same number of employees and then everything in between so you can't paint with one brush but obviously the stock market is way ahead SPEAKER_18: of its skis i believe yes yeah so i feel like there's a little bit of like bubblishness happening maybe people are getting too optimistic the jobs numbers are realistic the inflation is realistic but SPEAKER_27: if that three handle comes back we go from 2.x i don't know what it was last time 2.4 2.5 i think it was 2.4 you know we start to see 2.9 and god forbid we see a 3.1 or a 3.2 and these numbers are not perfect i know people get all kinds of crazy so it's going to be choppy coming out of the storm is my message to everybody but there is never a bad time to start a company michael dell did a great tweet today he said he did 1.7 trillion dollars in revenue from dell from starting in his ut dorm room if you're thinking about starting a startup forget all of this macro information forget about competitors just start a company if you can't start a company you don't have a great idea join a company if you can't find a company to join and you got a bunch of money sitting around and you're in the last third SPEAKER_36: of your career invest in a startup if you don't have money to invest in a startup and you can't join one just try a startup's product that's my message today just support startups start startups invest SPEAKER_37: in startups and the world will get better and you'll have a lot more fun in your life one more SPEAKER_38: note on the inflation point um you talking about how it's sticky and a little bit hard there was a SPEAKER_00: great quote from um waller over on the fed he said this week overall i feel like an mma fighter who keeps getting inflation in a chokehold waiting for it to tap out get it keeps slipping out of my grasp at the last minute but let me assure you that submission is inevitable inflation isn't getting out of the octagon never thought that my knowledge of uh combat sports was going to help my inflation watching jason but that is the latest from the fed so more to come on that front and um really briefly everybody we touched on the murder in new york city on wednesday when it was very very fresh since then there's been quite a lot of uh conversation about it just to put a little color on things um 404 media reported that major health insurance companies are taking down their leadership pages quite seriously uh i wonder jason if having a linkedin page for example is going to become something you don't do past a certain level of seniority but you had an interesting tweet you said that uh my lord there's a lot of pent-up anger towards these healthcare companies and it's not just from one person it's all over tiktok today what did you see out there i mean i tweeted some of the the videos taylor SPEAKER_17: lorenz who's obviously very outspoken friend of this pod she's been on many times we're not like personal friends or anything but she's a friend of the pod and um she does great moments of journalism SPEAKER_27: where she covers social media she had some pretty spicy tweets of like wondering and you're wondering why i think was the quote you're wondering why we want these ceos dead it was a very inappropriate SPEAKER_17: quote we all know that she should not have said it way out of bounds she then doubled down on it in a blog post promoting her new sub stack or her newsletter just really bad you know if i was talking to her privately and i told her publicly it just you don't gloat over people's death no matter SPEAKER_36: how you feel about the oppressor and the oppressed of what's fair what's evil and you know you can make a really good argument that it is evil to deny people health care and that people die because they've been denied health care i don't think anybody would say that is not something that occurs now i don't know how often it occurs i think this is going to create a lot of reckoning but nobody should be murdered and called good for the love of god and we we should not be wishing more death and the the stuff SPEAKER_37: on tick tock specifically which is really kind of like surfaces this stuff and i wonder if the chinese and there's some news about today i wonder if the chinese are doing this to incite more violence in SPEAKER_36: our country and incite more division it reminds me of what the russians did you know where they were putting both sides of protests especially race-based ones and this is another wedge issue which is health care if you think about things in america that we don't agree on and that we're very very have non-consensus and that make people get really angry health care and universal health care is one SPEAKER_27: and obviously race is another these are really open wounds here in america and the russians knew to exploit those uh during election cycles and obviously the chinese who are you know have an interest in creating strife here and distracting us my lord the stuff people were saying was so terrible i don't even want to repeat it here but they were printing pictures of the other ceos of the health companies how SPEAKER_17: much they made and the ratio of the young the the lowest employee to the highest employee you know this is 300 times you know they make 10 million a year the lowest employee makes 100 it's 100x whatever it is this kind of violent rhetoric there is no place in the world for it this is not something to gloat on it is really really disturbing to me um not just because i back ceos and i'm a capitalist SPEAKER_38: it's just disturbing because the person's a father yeah but what what struck me is when this happened SPEAKER_39: and my first thought was i wonder if this was a targeted killing it ended up being one and then as we learned from certain inscriptions on shell casings that is probably one that had a motivation behind it it wasn't just a robbery or something like that i i thought to myself someone's gonna get SPEAKER_00: fired on twitter today and unsurprisingly people have been popping off but the reason why i wanted to ask you about your tweet and what you saw on tick tock is i was shocked at how much this story resonated on reddit across forums there was a great um story from the daily beast moderators delete reddit thread as doctors torch dead united healthcare ceo the nursing subreddit was popping off lost generation economic collapse a lot of some weird subredits that i tracked this was all over and so what struck me was well one i agree with you i'll say it again don't shoot people do not murder people SPEAKER_60: but the sheer amount of anger here that yes that i knew people didn't like insurance health insurance SPEAKER_00: i knew it's expensive i need the claims get tonight but the willingness of people to be like you know SPEAKER_24: what f that guy that did take me by surprise so i i think maybe we should probably work on making SPEAKER_63: health insurance better have you built something awesome are you ready to bring it to market well that's great but you're probably asking yourself how do i get to my target customers well here's an easy solution for you it's called linkedin ads and with linkedin you can precisely target the professionals most likely to care about your product you can use linkedin to reach people by job title industry company location and more you know all the stuff that you have on your profile page imagine you're looking to build your b2b audience maybe you want mid-sized companies maybe you want large ones maybe you want emerging small businesses right small and medium-sized businesses smbs well you got to build those key relationships and you want to drive results well you just do that with linkedin ads and you're going to gain access to over a billion members of linkedin of which 13 130 million of them are decision makers that means they can pull the trigger on buying your product or service and 10 million of them one percent of the linkedin audience are those elite c-level executives you know what i'm talking about chief technology officer chief strategy officer chief revenue officer chief executive officer chief financial officer they're all there on linkedin and you're going to get two to five times the return on your ad spend 79 of b2b marketers say linkedin delivers the best paid media results for a reason so here's your call to action start converting your b2b audience into high quality leads today and we're going to give you a hundred dollar credit to start your next campaign linkedin.com slash this week in startups to claim that credit that's linkedin.com slash this week in Chamath Palihapitiya: startups terms and conditions do apply it's one of these things where gosh you know there are multiple things can be true concurrently and because of anonymity and the web and people's ability to publish SPEAKER_27: and people's ability to be amplified you know somebody might say something like teller laurent said at a dinner party somebody at the dinner party might give her a little bit of grace and a little bit of space for what you said and said well you know i disagree respectfully but when you say something like that online and you got a lot of followers as i well know because i say some spicy things online you know you have to think about your platform and you got to think about well what Chamath Palihapitiya: if you were to say something and then another crazy person goes and kills another person yeah and i SPEAKER_17: think about that all the time you know and i didn't used to think about that 20 years ago but as SPEAKER_27: the amount of people who follow me on social media or listen to my podcast i i actually do think about those things yeah and i try to be very thoughtful when i say things and you'll hear me often say now where i maybe wouldn't say it i would respond to a news story and just say well that that person's dumb or you know that's a stupid decision i might say now yeah um if that reporting SPEAKER_36: is true yeah and i might just give a little caveat there and i'll tell people hey let's reserve some judgment here let's wait for the facts to come out but if we are going to speculate here are some things that i think are important to keep in mind or this person if they did in fact do this this would be a stupid decision you know i i just try to be thoughtful about it and i don't go anywhere near violence yeah because you know that the number of people suffering from mental illness is very high in the united states right now post-covid there's a lot of different reasons and then you add to this health care and it could in fact be the same group of people we're talking about people who don't have health care who are suffering from mental illness there could be like an overlap here which could make this even you know more violent and there could be more violence it just SPEAKER_83: i feel so bad for this person's kids i just keep going back when you're a dad and you start thinking SPEAKER_37: about gosh there are two kids there who are not going to get to know their dad and they're going to have to have their entire lives defined by this terrible moment yeah if the guy had a pie thrown in his face like that absurdist used to do hit bill gates with a pie i don't like that either SPEAKER_17: but or if there was a protest and people sat in the office or you know greenpeace you know and and they did something that was you know on the edge of protesting i i there's a spectrum here of like what's allowed even january 6 falls on that spectrum right some people are protesting some people are breaking stuff some people got out of control we got to get this spectrum towards peaceful protests when people have grievance in competition and make better products and services but oh my god this is really like i i'm i don't know about you but as a dad it's just this this i'm ruminating and i'm doing it right now on the pod so i apologize for ruminating but i'm ruminating about this guy's kids SPEAKER_87: it makes me really sad it makes me very very sad too i have other thoughts about people talking about this and cancel culture and so forth by the way i'm bringing up taylor because you know she's got SPEAKER_27: a big platform i don't think taylor should be canceled for this i think she should speak her mind yes and i'm not going to not say her name because she's saying spicy stuff we got to trust that head on and she's welcome to go on the program and talk about it but i do think she should go through the same journey i went through which is as you get more popular just think through what you're saying and SPEAKER_83: think about how a mentally ill person might interpret what you're saying so that that's the nuanced take SPEAKER_39: that i kind of expected from you um i follow mike solana on twitter uh the pirate wires guy he was SPEAKER_60: tweeting about how like oh i think the information once hired taylor to write something and he's like SPEAKER_00: oh jessica how do you feel about that and i quote canceled yeah with the the thing for the elon musk quote essentially that he said recently which is cancelled culture is cancelled uh i thought SPEAKER_39: cancelled culture was cancelled right and then and then he hits me with uh do you support and agree with what she said and i said no no and uh that was the end of it but i was like SPEAKER_36: wait a minute i've i know i you you're this is an important part of the of the story as well are people allowed to say things that are uncouth are people allowed to say things that could potentially cause real world harm if it's their opinion you know what you have to me there's there's a a moment of personal responsibility here yes what i'll encourage people as an elder statesman and i'm older than taylor and i'm older than mike and i respect both of their performances as a journalist i think they both do a great job of what they do by the way i think pirate wise does a great job they do some incredible investigative work you don't have to agree with them politically on everything i think he does a tremendous job i think taylor does a tremendous job but think about your platform and if there can be real world harm and then also hey there could be some hypocrisy here like you're ratting out taylor lorenz to jessica to try to get her fired that's a valid point you're making like you're literally trying to get her cancelled on the other side it is your right to say i unsubscribed from the information today because they employ taylor lorenz and SPEAKER_107: i disagree with her point that would be a better statement right my point about cancel culture that i've SPEAKER_00: had for a long time is cancel culture was mostly just market-based response to to very very unpopular speech and if you have a free market economy there's going to be responses to things and here we have SPEAKER_109: mr salon doing just that and i just found it ironic anyways let's let's keep going we got a lot on the SPEAKER_113: docket you're welcome to come on we should have mike on at some point he would be a great guest as well SPEAKER_114: that would be fun mike if you're watching this come on the show we'd love to talk to you okay so a tweet SPEAKER_39: was going around that i thought was indicative of where uh software is as a industry in um in silicon valley SPEAKER_00: here's this tweet from a man named didi he says for people who are on the audio everyone thinks this is an exaggeration but there are so many software engineers not just at fang who i know personally who literally make two code changes a month send a few emails a few meetings remote work less than five hours a week for two hundred thousand to three hundred thousand dollars per year and jason when SPEAKER_39: i saw this i thought to myself he's coming on the show this feels like a main character of the week SPEAKER_17: to me yes and it did blow up and i became aware of it when you shared it with me and then i saw aaron SPEAKER_27: levy looking at it and then i saw mark andreason talking on joe rogan there was a very interesting clip of him talking about a high profile ceo who found out a lot of people in the organization were using mouse jigglers yep and they bought the top mouse jigglers according to mark andreason figured out the patterns looked for that pattern in the employee monitoring and the computer monitoring software so people who are on remote i've told them this before i don't use it at our companies i did look into it i didn't think it was necessary we're a 21 person company i should know how hard people are working generally but if i did have 200 i would definitely employ the software there's software that monitors your desktop make sure your computer is being used for work and if you're an employee you're having your screen shot every 30 seconds your desktop is being screenshotted put into a database and being SPEAKER_36: held for all time your keystrokes are being monitored and your mouse movements are being monitored most people are smart enough to know this software exists and they said this person then just looked figured out who was using a mouse jiggler and fired them all just like people have been doing with coffee badging so if you were doing something like buying a mouse jiggler that should be an alert to you that you're committing a crime you are committing fraud against your employer you're stealing from an employer no different than taking coffee beans from the commissary or stealing pens but this would be even worse because they're trusting you they're trusting you now i'm not saying i never took a legal pad or a pen home from work when i was a kid i did i had a pen i had a pad i thought it was cool i didn't take 50 pens or 50 pets but i might have had two or three pens in my bag and even then i obsessed over it alex that's the morals that my mom put in me yes that stealing was the worst thing you could ever SPEAKER_121: do and i would bring pens back to work and put them in the desk if i found them at home i'm a little SPEAKER_00: nuts but who in their mind does this puts a jiggler on their mouse as a fellow boy scout i i totally agree with you but i want to get dd on uh sorry we have him on the show dd dos if you don't know he's an investor over at minlo and he previously was a uh software engineer at google he was an engineering fellow at kp and also head of product at glean there he is ladies and gentlemen guys founders do SPEAKER_124: you want to sell to bigger customers i know you do you got to get that acv trending up and you want to push your turn down right sounds good but to sell to those big buyers you need to clear all of these compliance checks you know that that means you got to have things like sock two sorted out what's sock two it's a standard and ensures that companies keep their customer data safe and if you aren't sock two compliant you can kiss those big deals goodbye you're not going to land the lighthouse customers you're not going to be able to operate at the highest end of the market but vanta makes it really easy for you to get and renew your sock two compliance on average vanta customers are compliant in just two to four weeks can take months without vanta and they automate compliance for gdpr hipaa and more so you can sell to bigger customers in whatever markup your startup is going after vanta is going to save you hundreds of hours of work and up to 85 on compliance costs stop slowing your SPEAKER_83: sales team down and use vanta get a thousand dollars off at vanta.com twist that's vanta.com twist SPEAKER_00: for one thousand dollars off your sock two so dd the reason why i think this thread took off is not because you said something that was de novo people have been talking about slacker engineers for a while but then you said and here are some of those companies oracle salesforce cisco workday SPEAKER_39: sap ibm vmware intuit autodesk viva box citrix adobe one do you have that many friends who are working SPEAKER_00: at all those different companies and two how mad are they at you for narking on them on the internet and SPEAKER_132: going viral and ruining their free ride they're pretty mad i mean i'll tell you a quick anecdote i was at a wedding back in india a couple weeks ago and i was introduced to this person i never met him before and he says hi nice to meet you i said i'm didi he's like my wife hates you and i'm like i don't i've just met you and he says oh well she works at box and yeah so people are pretty all pretty mad um i ended up speaking to the wife and she was like it's all true okay how did you get this information SPEAKER_135: can you explain how you figured everything out and it's not that complicated like i was a software SPEAKER_138: engineer most of glean all of uh google and between google and glean i saw that work culture shift SPEAKER_134: between people who work basically 20 hours or less versus 80 hours a week and all my friends would talk about it all my friends are software engineers you know so whenever we talk it's like it's incredible how much they can get away with i can tell you one person who literally told me you know i've been saying i'm worried about the pandemic and covet and all of this stuff i've been in mexico for three years my boss doesn't know there's some incredible stuff that's going on and i just think i'm not trying to rat them out i just think it's unfair to so many people who actually do have to work really SPEAKER_142: hard for no real reward and meanwhile you have people making a 300k in mexico doing that can we step SPEAKER_87: backwards for a second alex how did dd find out that people were working more or less i thought SPEAKER_00: he was just talking to people but there was also a study from stanford that found according to it that nine and a half percent of software engineers are uh what was the phrase dd ghosts essentially this was predicated though jason on git commits so essentially like how much code did you ship in that in that format there was some i think reasonable nuance in the conversation about if git commits are actually the best way to vet developer productivity but i think the response to that study was people SPEAKER_39: going yeah i've seen that so similar to what dd said so a mix of anecdotes and what i might call SPEAKER_33: very strong anecdata you had a bunch of conversations that's where you got most of your information from SPEAKER_132: i've also been a manager in the past you know i've seen people who've done it not done it and i i do agree like there's a more complicated conversation to be had here because software engineering productivity SPEAKER_134: is not easy to measure it's not done with git commits it's not done with lines of code it's really hard to get an accurate view of whether an engineer is good or not and that's exactly what's abused and then there's this other whole side of the story of you know what are the incentives at play here and if you look at these especially at the company gets bigger um i had a follow-up tweet about this as well it's just like managers have no incentive to fire any of the reports if you're a middle manager at google all you care about saying is you tell your boss look my guys are working all the time i need more headcount that's what gets you promoted you don't get promoted for saying some of my guys are slacking off that doesn't give you anything and i think this incentive SPEAKER_91: structure is what leads to the situation right and that's why to me this was not exactly a remote only SPEAKER_00: story because i've worked in offices and if you're an employee at an office you can tell within three days who is the person who circulates the office doing conversations and who actually does the work but here's my question dd about larger companies and i'm glad you worked at google because you have you know experience is it possible to build a company that scales past i don't know 1 000 or 10 000 people that has a strong software engineering component to it that doesn't fall prey to too many layers of management internal empire building like ghost workers like it seems that every single major successful wealthy technology company has internal rot to its structure that it can't break away from and i i just wonder is anyone doing this well or is this just the way it goes SPEAKER_132: at large technology companies well i think we all know the answer to that it's uh you've got to look at mr musk um and look at his companies i think that's the only example that i can think of where this SPEAKER_134: is done somewhat well and there's obviously a lot of criticism there as well at scale it's really hard to run a big organization with the right incentive structures i haven't seen too many i've had friends who work at x who work at tesla who do say that they have a version of that that does kind of work even though it's not without flaws but it is quite difficult to do okay and then a question SPEAKER_00: about the menlo portfolio because we have you here uh have you guys seen a shift away from remote and kind of the hybrid remote setup that a lot of startups had and has that increase in tempo in the last six to nine months because it does feel the tech conversation around that has become more negative SPEAKER_158: so i'm just curious how that shows up in uh your report to us both in the portfolio portfolio and SPEAKER_134: outside of it there has been more ceos want to have in-person um artwork i think most ceos prefer that but i do want to say that this is not it there's not the only way it works i mean i think not in our portfolio but there's a great company called gitlab works really well remote um i met another company a small startup in new york fantastic company they build these open source python tools astral fully remote um and they're fantastic at it so you know it's there's no one way to do it but it is true i think that remote is harder to get right than in-person work here's the um the data i just SPEAKER_18: pulled up from this uh yegor i'm at stanford and i research software engineering productivity we have data SPEAKER_164: on the performance of greater than 50 000 engineers from hundreds of companies inspired by ddd das that is your handle on x d-e-e-d-y-d-a-s our research shows 9.5 percent of software engineers do virtually nothing ghost engineers uh which is crazy and he explains here how do we know that 9.5 percent of software engineers are ghosts our model quantifies productivity by analyzing source code from private git repos simulating a panel of 10 experts evaluating each commit across multiple dimensions we published a SPEAKER_18: paper and we have more on this in coming so it's pretty clear that this exists and so i guess Chamath Palihapitiya: what we're going to see over time is employers are getting upset they feel that this is stealing it is SPEAKER_17: stealing whether you're a salesperson who doesn't show up for work or you're a writer who phones it in SPEAKER_27: whatever it is you're stealing and the problem is you're breaking trust and once you break the trust there's going to be an overreaction for management and then it becomes super adversarial so are these employees and hey oh and by the way i was at x on twitter when elon took it over and we were looking at this there were many people who hadn't badged in in years and who hadn't done a commit in years so you put those two things together they've never been to the office they've never committed code or they haven't committed a car in a long time like why are they here right like if you're a developer you've done no commits like you can just start with that group of people so the the waste and the abuse and that let's call what it is stealing is pervasive and when i say pervasive like it's not just like a one-off there's i think a lot there's a culture somewhere in this of adversarialness between the SPEAKER_36: employer and the employee dd do you agree and take us into the psychology of a person who believes that they should take a salary from one company maybe two and do no work or fake the work or put a jiggler on their mouse take us into that psychology but when you talk to those people or you've met them SPEAKER_134: like what what do they think about stealing i think it separates into two two buckets right i think one bucket is just i think this work is boring and no one's forcing me to do it so why am i wrong here i'm not misleading somebody i'm not lying and saying i'm doing something i'm not got it i am doing exactly what they're telling me to do and it's just not that much um so that's one school of thought SPEAKER_148: so it's management's fault that they're not managing me proper it's not my responsibility to say SPEAKER_11: the job you gave me i'm getting done in five hours a week i have 35 more hours give me more work i feel SPEAKER_173: bad about it yeah no one's gonna say that they're dumb they don't know therefore it what i'm doing is SPEAKER_148: not criminal it's it's their incompetence you're blaming the other person for stealing yeah if my SPEAKER_134: manager gives me five hours a week of work i'm not gonna go and say give me 40 hours a week that's not my job like my job is to do the work i'm given and so that's that's a real problem in my mind SPEAKER_170: it is but then i'll quickly talk about the second school which is there is like like going back to SPEAKER_134: the incentive problem if you're a software engineer at some level you're like say you're like an l5 l6 engineer senior to staff engineer you're thinking what do i get out of this right like i can over perform i get no reward i get no recognition i don't really get up the ladder i get paid one way or the other why am i going to go out of my way to try to bust my ass for this job where no one's SPEAKER_182: giving me any any any prizes in return so there's those two larger groups um that i would point at SPEAKER_183: hey everybody i want to tell you about an awesome corporate card and spend management software that's SPEAKER_63: designed to help you save money basically it puts money back in your pocket it's called ramp and we use it here at launch my coo heidi our chief operating officer loves it because ramp gives you visibility into your company's software usage this is going to help you trim your subscription costs and it allows you to issue cards to every employee and then give them limits and restrictions so we do this sometimes we'll have the whole team go to an off-site we send everybody a ramp card everybody has a certain amount of money they can spend and they don't have to worry about using their personal cards or submitting an expense report or any of that drama no and ramp customers save about five percent on their expenses every year because you can do things like dial up and dial down how much money can be charged to a card ramp software is so smart you no longer have to do manual expense reports either and they'll even play bad cop for your company chasing down missing documentation and requesting repayment ram's so easy to use and you can start making payments in less than 15 minutes so join ramp right now and they'll give you 250 right into your account ramp.com twist r-a-m-p.com twist it is the best way to manage expenses for your team it's elegant it's dead simple and it's going to save you money disclaimer cards issued by sutton bank members fdic terms and conditions SPEAKER_18: apply so the idea is if you have a job alex you need to get some candy some participation trophy some pat on the head for doing extra work as opposed to getting paid for hours of work and i think there's SPEAKER_17: like a very easy simple solution here is just put people on hourly like you could just move these employees to an hourly consulting job and like what are you going to have to do like monitor their screen to make sure they're writing code every hour like do people dd know that are some of these companies David Friedberg: their screens not being recorded they don't have monitoring software and the developers uh they do SPEAKER_134: some of them do i don't think most people look at monitoring i think look it's it's it's too simplistic to suggest that frankly in my opinion because engineering is a hard job right it's easy to say no commits in two years you're probably not doing your job agreed but it's the middle ground is really hard to to iron out the nuance is really key i'll give you a quick example at google you have front-end engineers who are working on ui on search i was on search and then you have search ranking engineers search ranking engineers you know for whatever you think of google search right now they have a really tough job where maybe in three months you commit two commits that really change the game for how search works whereas if you're a front-end engineer you can get 10 commits a week and do really meaningfully nothing for the product so there is a bit of nuance in like how do you actually SPEAKER_190: assess what is hours of work here because a lot of the work is thinking because the way i thought SPEAKER_18: about this is you got hired to do 40 hours of work a week it's in the contract and like to do five or ten and not do the other 30 would to me feel wrong yeah i'm just like an old school cranky old man now SPEAKER_00: no i think you're a cranky old venture capitalist and employer um which i think is a very perfect uh sorry specific type of old man and here's the thing companies will often ask you to work more than they pay you for and you eat that over time as paying your dues doing your bit helping your team SPEAKER_60: and the company will give you zero compensation for overtime if you're a salaried employee right we all SPEAKER_58: know this blah blah dd mentioned 80 hours a week okay doing that's rational economic activity for SPEAKER_00: a lot of people but a lot of people also have jobs apparently where they can work less and get paid the same it's rational i think as an economic actor to do that we also give companies a lot of grace there is a lot of wage theft in this country we don't complain about that stuff so to me i think it's a little simplistic to say these people are stealing would i do it no also i don't know where SPEAKER_39: these jobs are where you don't have to work i've never had one i've always ended up with more work SPEAKER_36: but you also have pride i watch i work with you now like i watch you work alex like you if you didn't have enough work you'd say to me i think like hey am i doing a good job boss is there anything i can do SPEAKER_121: more to help out on the margins i watch you take on work that i didn't ask you to do yeah and i would SPEAKER_202: think everybody would have that normal and compass people people are lazy i mean right like i guess Chamath Palihapitiya: that's what it comes down to dd i okay a message to everybody who's abusing the system you're gonna SPEAKER_42: it up for everybody yeah yeah i'm remote stop making remote work look bad like i mean this is Chamath Palihapitiya: literally what's gonna happen and it's you you know i i'm lucky because the people who work for me do meetings and i just know how many meetings they do a day or a week because we have calendars and it's like i mean you can't fake it if your job is to meet with startups three four five times a day the most you could do is screw around in between the meetings like yes but at least i'm getting those three meetings or four meetings with founders a day out of you i mean this is like SPEAKER_17: super disturbing where does this all end up dd yeah wait jason i want to i want to i want to SPEAKER_00: clarify that question because we only have him for one more dd if google fire 80 of it's in tomorrow on the search team on the search ads team but just across the company did what you said kind of the mux sorry the musk x strategy what would happen i think 80 is tough for google specifically SPEAKER_134: because they're split into so many products that don't make revenue but i would say you could probably get away with 50 and it would be fine i'll tell you a quick story when i left google i was talking to a google veteran who'd been there for like 20 plus years and i said you were having like banter and i was like you know i knew this guy at google you know who hadn't done anything for the last year and a half isn't that crazy and he looks at me and goes like i've known people who haven't SPEAKER_121: done anything for 10 years well here's the thing about google specifically when google came in i SPEAKER_18: remember talking to like larry and sergey in the early days and marissa and and you know the whole Chamath Palihapitiya: crew over there and their philosophy was if you're smart and you're in silicon valley you want to be in tech we're hiring you we'll figure out later what you're going to do here because we have a money printing machine and we can afford to do so and for every smart person we hire that's reduces the SPEAKER_27: chances of a competitor and they literally were hiring talented people in silicon valley valley at 2x the rate and giving them 10 times the perks which everybody else followed in order to pursue this strategy of removing talent from the playing field and then having the optionality of just having great players in case somebody gets injured or to do a skunkworks project and they literally had a 20 they had so much talent there they said take 20 time every friday work on whatever project you want let us know and so they created this culture and then i think the culture now because of the lack of loyalty from employers to employees employees feel very valid i can understand it i don't feel that way myself but i could understand somebody who's watched them their SPEAKER_36: friends get laid off and them get left to say f this company i'm gonna get mine yeah here's what SPEAKER_83: companies need to do and employees need to do in order to end this standoff and keep remote work alive if SPEAKER_36: you care to do that except put monitoring software on everybody's goddamn computer and do not shop on your work computer do not work on your side hustle on your work computer and they're just going to have to spot check employees that's what's going to happen and that's what is happening and that's what needs to happen in our government too if you work for our government and doge if you're not on your computer for eight hours a day 40 hours a week if you're not in the office for eight hours a day um yeah no job for you sorry the american taxpayers we're in massive debt we have to cut that's it and you know what i'm here for it uh we're in so much in debt just over cut and then SPEAKER_83: let people reapply for their jobs that's how much debt we're in as a country hey didi thanks for doing SPEAKER_37: your work and taking all the arrows for me thank you thank you i'm gonna get some more now everywhere SPEAKER_224: thanks for being a little rat rat and everybody yeah i appreciate it no thanks for taking the arrows SPEAKER_00: i was sorry guys my dismount i was gonna ask eating what percentage of menlo could be fire and uh have it still worked as well as it does today no i think none of them actually and then SPEAKER_134: there's an honest answer not both in the firm and in the portfolio startups just don't work that way SPEAKER_39: you know you can't run a resource constraint no i my my point was everyone thinks that their team is the one that doesn't deserve to get cut that's fair no there's nowhere to hide at i'll tell you Chamath Palihapitiya: something when you're an under 50 person under 30 person team yes there's generally nowhere to hide SPEAKER_27: yes and if you create a culture where you as the leaders put in effort that's the number one way to manage this issue yep there's nobody on my team who looks at me and says hey jason doesn't work hard jason's off whatever so you know then i have the high ground if i'm working on the weekends and responding to founders on saturday and sunday and my team sees me saying over the weekend hey here's stories i want to do on monday show i set the tone i'll tell you the problem is when you're running one of these big companies and you're zuckerberg and you're out in your place in maui and then you're at your place in lake tahoe i can tell you i know the rank and file people at Chamath Palihapitiya: facebook who when he said get back in the office we're going back to the office they were like hey boss you're in maui we know you're in maui you're sharing photos so people know that right they look at their bosses off and then they just say it's okay for me to do it also people give over employed a SPEAKER_00: whole lot of crap but i think david sax is now the leader of having more than uh seven jobs he's got a couple jobs now all right dd thank you so much we appreciate you do more thank you guys love you SPEAKER_107: back on the show have a good one thanks for having me bye-bye it's a spicy issue is it not no i i love it because people want to come at this with a single thing normal remote work or do this but it's it's a SPEAKER_60: lot of people a lot of companies a lot of different structures there's no single answer to it but now SPEAKER_00: jason we have today everyone you're welcome we have an amazing second guest on the live news show we are and i get to say the following words on twist hayley welch the woman who went viral for the hawk SPEAKER_01: tour phenomena you do launched a meme coin and guess what jason it has not turned out to be a blue SPEAKER_239: chip investment what i know you're saying a viral star who launched launched a coin it didn't go well Chamath Palihapitiya: and it hasn't replaced reserve currency or been an alternative to buying the qqq or low uh load uh fidelity fund like you're so uh interested no it's it hasn't outperformed real estate in a major booming SPEAKER_242: city oh wow this is crazy it might have if you flip it upside down look at the chart backwards but SPEAKER_00: to help us understand this we have from youtube it is coffeezilla himself hey how you doing my guy SPEAKER_211: i love coffeezilla coffeezilla is my roman empire i love coffeezilla so much if you don't know who coffeezilla is he has a youtube channel yes where he looks for scams and i was just talking about this Chamath Palihapitiya: michael saylor stuff i'm not saying that's a scam but you know my ocd alex when i get my hooks in something it doesn't make sense to me my investigative journalist comes out well coffeezilla is a detective right and he has the same dna as i do when it comes to stuff he sniffs something he figures out maybe something's going on that's not right and then he gets the receipts and then he makes his you SPEAKER_173: know little coffeezilla videos on them and they go super viral and millions of views he is the backstop SPEAKER_244: against fraud ladies and gentlemen the one the only coffees don't how's that funny wait way too nice way SPEAKER_246: too nice i'm the backstop against the hawk to a meme coin nobody was gonna stop it except for you SPEAKER_247: know if i know i think uh this thing was a pretty transparent con from the get-go uh you know three SPEAKER_03: percent of the tokens got allocated to the public 17 unlocked day one insiders sold for millions of dollars and i just want to know where did that money go somebody somebody had to make that money right uh it wasn't retail that made that money it was a lot of this is the problem jason with a lot of this stuff is there's very little understanding about how these the tokenomics can affect they can kind of rig a launch to favor insiders as opposed to regular people who are jumping in the most unfortunate thing about this and the reason i kind of beat my drum on it because there are influencer drops you know seemingly every day now especially as the bull markets kind of come back the real problem is they kind of targeted what they called normies in their deck right and the guy one of the guys doc hollywood who i think is like the son-in-law of howie mandel or something he was saying in in our twitter spaces that oh like you know our audience and i don't want to misquote him but you can go find it in the space there's something to the effect of our audience is like they don't even know what market caps are they don't even know what the price is and actually that SPEAKER_251: actually matters a lot right you know the difference between a sophisticated investor and someone who's SPEAKER_03: just jumping in for the first time and there's a different expectation of the protection we SPEAKER_253: give to those people okay so let's step back here for a second alex there is a concept of a token in Chamath Palihapitiya: the world you buy a token and it's supposed to have some value uh sometimes those are utility based tokens and they help power something like there's file coin that theoretically powers the utility of a cloud-based storage system that would compete against s3 you know amazon web services story and so and then there are people buying what's called the meme coin which means they're just speculating or maybe even trying to play the game of pumping and dumping coins so now this has become like a gambling game of like um poker or risk or guts so what were they stating was the purpose of this coin coffee zilla SPEAKER_192: was there was there ever a stated purpose to the coin like it's going to do x in the world SPEAKER_03: i think in the call i think he said like the great thing about meme coins is there are no promises but we're going to build like a great community around this or something like that that was uh doc hollywood who seems to be more of the crypto connector between hayley welch i don't know how much the hawk to a girl has like knows about crypto and i guess he was the connect of a few months ago he posted that he's giving a mean coin class or whatever so you have all these guys who they see these influencers with huge audiences and they tell them like hey we're gonna monetize your fandom even though they said they're not gonna you know we're not making any promises really it's like i think the pitch is we're going to build a community around this hayley wants to like benefit the community this is for her fans i know they wanted to give away some free tokens to people who have interacted with her in the past the problem is when you sell to insiders and those people are looking for a return SPEAKER_251: on their investment when this coin launches with all that hype and you know this this girl unfortunately is using her influence to be the front man right the brand she's the face of the brand yeah it's a huge SPEAKER_03: cautionary tale because you know she made 125 000 which is a lot of money i think she has some back end you know when it unlocks and stuff like that and maybe 50 of net proceeds if you believe her entertainment lawyer but at the end of the day the person taking going to get torched in this whole thing is going to be her and the guys who run this stuff they're going to go to the next guy and they're going to make the next guy the next influencer do it and so you know as much as i like to get the word out i don't like when people pump this stuff i do also like to give a cautionary tale to influencers you have to know what you're getting into it's a totally different game to shill a vpn fine god bless you you know whatever you want to use a vpn whatever you want to do yeah you use a vpn but SPEAKER_251: if you want to sell people a financial instrument especially one that is essentially gambling when SPEAKER_249: people lose their money they're gonna come for the head of the person who sold it to them understandably SPEAKER_00: so i think that's incredibly valid but jason's question earlier was made in good faith about what was the token for but i think the problem is that by definition a meme coin is or a shitcoin you can't have value like who thought that hawk to a coin was going to be worth anything apart from a vehicle for near-term speculation right i mean what is it going to do what is community that is the most weaselly word in crypto because people always talk about it but mostly it just means speculative SPEAKER_247: pump and dumps yeah it means i don't want to actually give you a real thing i want and especially when they say oh we want to decentralize our community that's just the word for we want you to provide all the value we want you to generate all the value for our community we don't actually want to have to do anything we want to decentralize our uh our responsibility here that's a great model though SPEAKER_266: yeah it's a great ball actually you see a lot of a lot of people when they're they they made promises SPEAKER_247: and they want to add abdicate the the responsibility they say we want to decentralize the promise of this community and that's just code for we're never going to work on this again we're going to decentralize it SPEAKER_18: i mean fan clubs have existed if you wanted to start a fan club you could power up a newsletter charge 100 bucks a year for it and people could be part of the newsletter plenty of people do that and sometimes the newsletter's value is a community where people chat sometimes it's actual content and research done in the newsletter or it's somebody's opinion or art you could do all patreon exists so the SPEAKER_36: way i know that this is a scam when i see these things is there are vehicles coffeezilla i don't know if you do subscriptions on your youtube channel or you take donations uh but people can do that on youtube like if people are watching live right now you could give me a hundred dollars if you wanted to and i guess youtube takes some percentage of it whatever it is there are tipping built into these systems and streaming platforms there's patreon there's sub stack you could use beehive as an excellent uh way to do this and it looks like you have one here so this is like legit real stuff in the world Chamath Palihapitiya: and so why do the coin if you're doing the coin you know it's a red flag red flag red flow yeah 100 i SPEAKER_03: mean the other problem is is that with all those other things you mentioned there isn't this element of like hey maybe we're gonna make you rich in this process maybe there's like this big upside for you because that is sometimes how they pitch it oh this is just a fan community but we're gonna market it a bunch what does market my coin a bunch mean that's code for maybe a bunch of people are gonna go up it's gonna go up so that that that is the problem in a lot of this um like you said there are traditional ways to to do this stuff it is weird we've had this blend between finance and like mainstream culture and the lines have been really blurred as far as what is and we haven't had a lot of good regulatory direction as far as what is the security what are the rules of the road a lot of times the rules of the road are either not enforced or they're not there at all and it leads people to like be in this weird gray zone or they'll just go they'll do it this uh they SPEAKER_260: this team did they'll go offshore these guys said hey we wanted to do everything right so we went to the grand uh the cayman islands it's always a good sign when you go to panama or the grand caymans to do SPEAKER_283: business what could go wrong no red flags there that's the strange thing i was trying to figure out SPEAKER_285: where is this money going so i said you know where where is this you guys made like over a million SPEAKER_03: dollars in fees you guys are making all this in the pre-sale where's it go oh it all goes to the foundation well who benefits from the foundation does hayley welch own it no no she doesn't own it okay do you always on the board of the foundation here's a good question who's the beneficial owner of the foundation also a good question so it's like the that's the problem they hide behind SPEAKER_02: this kind of stuff and then then he's like you know we have 18 employees working on the hawk to a meme SPEAKER_292: coin okay yeah who are they who are they also do we need 18 people working on the hawk to a meme i SPEAKER_121: have 21 people working here at this firm you go on linkedin you search for launch and this we can SPEAKER_18: search you find the employees you could actually coffeezilla could contact them say what do you do for jason you know maybe some of them would talk to you it is uh so obviously that there's scams going on here but part of your cautionary tale is you have confronted these you've gotten into them early you've investigated them you know how to do the on-chain research and so for other influences who are thinking this is a way to make a quick buck maybe you could just chronicle briefly a couple of people who've gotten pinched have gotten fines whether it's fire festival whether it's jake paul's coin or was it SPEAKER_83: logan paul's coin i can't remember who you got into uh a back and forth with that i'm in a defamation SPEAKER_03: lawsuit about that right now so i can't speak about that one okay i can't speak about we covered safe moon um safe moon was a coin which promised you know uh to automagically lock up the tokens and you'd have this unruggable lp and that turned out to not be true john caroni and two of his founders have been indicted there are people in jail for that coin i mean there are real consequences that come from this stuff there's a guy jay mazzini who said he was gonna buy bitcoin from you at elevated prices that we covered extensively he's now in jail so there are real consequences to this stuff it does take a while and the problem is it does feel a little a little bit like the lottery whether you get pinched or not like it feels like but you do need to so this is my one problem with regulators is there's a bit uh like the cases take too long uh you know and i know these guys are overworked or whatever but just objectively the cases take too long and the enforcement is just sporadic it's more like getting a speeding ticket you can a lot of people speed not everyone gets caught eventually some people do but instead of facing a small fine you may you know uh go to jail for this so SPEAKER_251: and a lot of times you know to be honest jason these people they get promised a lot but a lot of SPEAKER_03: the people who make the money are the like your crypto dev you're the guys who've been in it and SPEAKER_299: spun up like eight different coins yes a lot of times they know the right way to do it like if what SPEAKER_03: hayley's entertainment lawyer said is true and she's locked up for a year while all the pre-sale guys SPEAKER_05: already have sold yes they've cleared it it's kind of uh you know you know she's she's a mark for that SPEAKER_07: that's theoretically here i don't know the details but i i think she's the mark if i my brooklyn and me SPEAKER_03: i've been asking for this agreement though and they they won't give me the agreement so i'm not gonna say one way or the other definitively until i see that contract yes but if it's true that she uh you know she made 125 000 i think she should either donate that she should completely divest from that SPEAKER_36: that could be a speaking fee for her personality appearance fee right and celebrities get those all the time you know this is where gary gensler leaving the administration and they're going to have a new person who's i think committed to making a clear set of new rules for crypto and that's really what needs to happen here as somebody who's pro technology and i'm actually pro crypto legally crypto does behave slightly differently and what would be really interesting here is to give a path to people to register these and it would be very simple you register it if your project is under a certain dollar amount you get like an experimental license you register and you have to have kyc you know know your customer and maybe a framework for how much each american is allowed to invest in these so each american is allowed to invest up to one percent of their yearly salary or whatever was on their tax return SPEAKER_18: if you had some common sense there you could sandbox some of this innovation allow people to do it and lower the chances of people getting hurt or as i've said over and over again and i've been saying to the new people in the new administration just have a test for sophistication and if people took a test coffeezilla i wonder if this would make you feel better about it you had to take a two or three hour test you had to understand what a market cap is you have to understand what a safe note is or a safe note for tokens it's called a saft i believe you had to know what diversification in your portfolio is in other words took a four or five hour cross course you answered a 50 to 100 person a hundred questions on how to make investments you became sophisticated as an investor like having a driver's license would you be okay with something like that that made it so you were at least educated so if you did participate in some lunacy like this my belief this is lunacy to sell a token that has no SPEAKER_309: value you would you would feel safer about it i wonder what you think yeah it's really interesting i SPEAKER_03: mean like i think the heart of what you're getting at is if you know what you're getting yourself into you should be able to if you want to gamble and you know the risks it's fine and if you ultimately lose money we feel very differently about that yes then right now anyone can just buy a little bit of salada on coinbase send it to their phantom wallet and they're investing in hock to a coin five seconds later and they aren't you know uh maybe they've just been marketed to on twitter they have like no idea what's going on or you know the insiders and all that kind of stuff so i do think there should be some framework i don't know the exact i haven't thought through um i'm more on the side of investigating when it goes wrong i'm not like i've actually had there was like this uh this like house of representatives like a team that reached out to me like we're thinking about some like rules of the road what do you think and i go guys we're in the wrong path if you're asking a youtuber like i only go when things go wrong i hope you guys are are the experts on how to make things go more right but right now i think the heart of what you're getting at is there is no clear path and rules of the road for how this stuff works and i think that's where everyone's getting into trouble because you do have marketers not only to the um retail investors you've marketing SPEAKER_251: marketers to these influencers i just had a guy not even in crypto not even in finance just a regular SPEAKER_03: youtuber he comes to me hey i was offered like a hundred thousand dollars to promote this like like dog coin should i do it and he has no idea what even he even he's promoting he's just being offered a hundred thousand dollars when i can guarantee you most of his deals are probably in the range of twenty thousand dollars so that that five x all of a sudden he's thinking well this could be a big upside for my career big upside for whatever so i think there's marketing on both sides that's a problem there's no clear rules of the road people don't know when they're breaking the law and not to give them any cover or whatever i'm just saying i think there's accountability on all sides here i think there needs to be clear rules of the road personally i'm a little bit like do we need mean coins do we need is it important to our economy that we are investing in that hat in the hat coins okay no i actually think it's better if we lift up things with value and we're not just always sure promoting a a an economy of speculative assets i think that's actually bad uh for most people's like financial literacy so i i take it you will not be buying SPEAKER_00: dog with hat or whatever else is is popping today here's steven here's the here's the thing that i'm stuck on one of the best parts of of your video on this and also a lot of the reporting that i read about hawk coin is that people can go to the blockchain and see what's going on and call bs on them not selling and the pre-sale and so forth the information is there so at once it seems that the blockchain and crypto are a great place to do fraud or scams and at the same time that you leave such a paper trail behind you people can kind of like vet it more so than they can other things in the private market so is is it actually a bad place to do scams and fraud because it seems that you get caught if you do this like there's no way to like obfuscate your actions absolutely the the crypto is SPEAKER_03: such an interesting thing because it's all pseudo anonymous so on the one hand it's in some ways easier and in some ways more traceable i don't know exactly how to explain that to most people i think because Chamath Palihapitiya: you're you just did pseudonymity means like you know there's an account or a wallet because it has permanence and there's provenance to it and there's tracked on this blockchain so you know that wallet too but you don't know exactly whose wallet it is and so then it becomes a little bit of investigation SPEAKER_27: whose wallet is that did they run it through a tumblr and they have a hundred other wallets so you can obscurify it but there is a record so you know it's fascinating i think in many ways what i will say for influencers you have to be thoughtful about where money comes from and when you become Chamath Palihapitiya: micro famous to actually legitimately famous and everything in between you will get offers i get speaking gigs all the time i would say about a third of the speaking gigs i get offered are for scams or things that i consider uncouth like predatory let me put it in the predatory and what people do is they will have a webinar or a seminar and they'll pay somebody like me or like the guys SPEAKER_27: from shark tank do these all the time you get paid 50 grand 100 grand 150 grand you show up for commerce they talk to you about angel investing hey you invested in uber your resident com robin hood you're a legit angel investor let's have a conversation i go to that i get paid 75 grand i spare the bag 100 grand who wouldn't do that and it's a it's a fine trade of services people are selling SPEAKER_18: tickets to conferences or corporations want a high profile speaker they'll pay an author of a book totally fine there's other group comes in and i then see what they're doing they take pictures of SPEAKER_36: themselves with celebrities with business celebrities then they go and say hey don't you want to be part of this and then some mom or some dad from san diego you know or from middle america thinks they want to be like me or another influencer or the shark tank guys and they want to be great at angel vested and they pay for a 5 000 course and then they pay for a 25 000 mastermind group and then i hear about the back channel you know how easy it is to figure these out when people send me the speaking gig i tape the name of the person scam i type the name of the person complaint and boom there's a gazillion complaints they're all there just like these dopey guys who took money from the russians they were like i'm getting a hundred thousand dollars per podcast episode you have to look SPEAKER_249: especially when it's a lot of money the more money the more you have to ask the question of where SPEAKER_03: like you said where is it coming from ultimately they're not just buying like a little bit of time with you they're buying your credibility they're buying your association and that's what you have to watch out for what i always tell people because i i have uh you know friends in the youtuber space or associates who they like they enjoy the jokes of it they enjoy like the silliness of it and all i SPEAKER_251: say is like there's nothing wrong if you want to go trade on your own private account whatever i don't care you can be as degenerate as you want thank you just don't put it just don't promote it as this sound invent nobody cares if you smoke cigarettes but the second you start promoting it everyone has a question right so it's like nobody cares if you want to be stupid with your money if you want to if you want to gamble with your money i don't care i just like do whatever you want god bless i like the second you put your stamp over right but it's a whole different thing if you're going on there and going hey this different thing or whatever this offshore shady gambling SPEAKER_03: company and so that's where the problem is is that people need to understand the credibility is huge and that's why they're paying you it's the money doesn't come from nowhere they know that with everybody they there's like a calculation of they have this many influencers this some of them i've SPEAKER_312: even heard of it like this many this is the size of their wallet we estimate that the size of jason's fans wallets are like you know a hundred dollars i'm not never selling out my fans everything i do is SPEAKER_18: for free for the fans or for founders i just always have that as a rule i don't ever like charge Chamath Palihapitiya: people for stuff it's just it's like even cameos i do them for free people like will be like oh can you say hi to my grandma she's a big fan i just do it on my phone i get sent it to them i'm like they're like oh can i pay i'm like give a donation to charity it's fine you know and you can tweet that i did it for you and that you did give a donation charity and then encourage other people SPEAKER_27: to do it two things number one everybody listening go follow coffee zilla's youtube channel it's amazing it's important that people expose these things and i i really appreciate the work you do please don't ever do anything yourself because i don't want to have egg on my face that you ran some scam okay because you are the good guys i need you to be pure number two i have an assignment for you if you're willing to take a coffee zilla there is um this influencer who is on tick tock called joshua SPEAKER_36: block i i emailed you a link about it he just released a block coin this kid has he's on the spectrum or something according to the reports and he's being i believe taken advantage of around by sycophants around him who got him to launch a mean coin that's a block coin anyway this guy joshua block i feel like he's being abused he's drinking alcohol to all hours of the night like in a really degenerate way he's only a cut 23 years old or whatever but he started as like a young kid on tick he's got a big following please take a look at into this case of the block coin and what he's doing because i think he also is getting pulled into this but i believe he's a victim because he might not SPEAKER_83: know what's going on here and it might be having you know even more i don't know if you've heard of SPEAKER_03: this case or looked into it yet yeah well there's another guy behind it that was uh well i'm just watching it i watch a lot of stuff and if it right then rises to the you know level of me needing to make a video about it i will but i've watched it and i there's a guy who is a former uh pimp of women yes who now his name is jason eitzler i believe or mr based is what he goes by but he seems to be like you know kind of for lack of a better word sort of pimping out joshua block to do he tells him to like to do all these different things i think he was one of the guys behind this coin he's the one promoting this doing life so it's a very sad situation that you bring up i'm definitely monitoring as i'm monitoring a lot of these questions listen when the bull run happens SPEAKER_325: my life gets a lot busier um yeah because full runtime it's back all right everybody follow coffee SPEAKER_326: zilla thanks so much appreciate it i salute you sir great show great show yeah okay great show SPEAKER_00: everything he does is magic but i i knew about coffee zilla because he did a a series of videos on the rabbit the ai device that everyone was talking about earlier this year and i thought his SPEAKER_329: his reporting was fantastic and so when we started to talk to him to come on the show today i was like SPEAKER_27: yes but we had the rabbit on here i like the founder of the rabbit he seemed like he was a good guy i don't know the background here but i need to look into that and we need to uh SPEAKER_332: i think they just emailed us and said hey can you come on again and show you the progress of the product so we're gonna have him on again that founder i hope well i guess we should get the david SPEAKER_17: sachs thing out of the way i'm obviously great friends with david sachs we do the all in podcast together we've been friends for 20 years i'll just say off the top i don't know any of the details of SPEAKER_27: this it was breaking news i found out about it when everybody else did when president trump or SPEAKER_18: president-elect donald trump you know gave his tweet about um uh david uh now becoming the czar for ai and for uh crypto i have to say david's one of the smartest hardest working honest ethical SPEAKER_27: people i've ever met i think he'll do an amazing job here you don't agree with him on a lot of opinions we fight about it battle about it every week when we have a difference of opinion but he is just it makes me feel great to have him uh advising the president on these two issues specifically because as we just discussed crypto has a lot of bad stuff going on and a lot of potential and this is a really hard one to balance and then ai as well needs to be a free market in my opinion and we don't SPEAKER_164: want to have over regulated so and the memes are coming in hot and heavy so my first thought about SPEAKER_39: this one i thought your um your tweeter is funny i am bringing this up not because it's humorous but SPEAKER_00: because just to remind everybody jason has said emphatically on the show he's not going to go work for the government so i'm not going to worry about that yes here's here's a very kind of ticky tacky question why is it ai and crypto in one job that strikes me as a very yeah well that's a big portfolio SPEAKER_345: for one person given how much is going on sure and also i wonder what he's going to do because there SPEAKER_00: are people in government who work on areas of policy and trump has nominated you know the new head of the sec is going to be pro crypto how much does he want david telling him what to do or how much influence SPEAKER_07: will david have these are yeah i mean it's these are great questions i will say david has a lot of experience in both of these obviously paypal was the first digital money or for consumers the one SPEAKER_27: that hit scale i think before anything so a lot of experience there crypto is kind of like the SPEAKER_17: extension of paypal and digital cat so he's more than qualified there and then as an investor in craft he's done a ton of ai investing and is involved in that so yeah he's smart and having a smart David Friedberg: person as an advisor and this seems to be an advisory role i actually don't know the details of SPEAKER_39: it so we'll find out in the coming weeks yeah which is why that i'm asking but here here's the thing jason so i i saw this and i i'm not gonna lie i was not shocked i was not like oh my god what an enormous surprise i was gonna go right here jason because sam allman of open ai after david sacks SPEAKER_00: got the uh tsar job by the way tsar is russian for caesar i believe essentially it means uh a person who's handed a portfolio of things to chief yeah like the person in charge of it there is uh a lot of divisions inside of silicon valley that are not i think super visible outside of it for example there was a brouhaha earlier this year between the folks who believe in parker conrad more than david sacks and the folks who believe in david sacks more than parker conrad and i think that that's very occluded outside of those relationships and rooms and the tweet that i just pulled up for us or started the post on x was sam aldman congratulating david sacks and then um several people who are high profile ex-users uh laughing at it yeah put a laughing emoji i saw that on cnbc this SPEAKER_335: morning i mean that made some interpretation i guess up to interpretation i love i love that cnbc has SPEAKER_00: to look at elon musk emoji tweets that's the world right but clearly sam aldman is trying to engender some good vibes with with david sacks yeah and they're on very different sides of this issue i mean SPEAKER_27: listen people compete some people want more regulation uh sam has been super pro regulation i mean if you're in the lead you pro regulation if you're behind you maybe want less regulation historically yeah incumbents it's called regulatory capture here bill gurley talking about all the time and bill gurley's been very public about this in regard to ai like all these people who have a year or two year lead want regulatory capture and that's wrong right so this has been the the node SPEAKER_39: perspective uh to some degree if you know khosla he's been arguing for a more closed approach keep it secure keep it out of china's hands what is he an investor in which company i think is an investor SPEAKER_168: in open ai if i remember where he serves so once again one of the two well when you're in the lead SPEAKER_242: you're closed and you want regulation when you're not boom or people who have an investment talk their SPEAKER_00: book and that sure yeah so uh you know what would be great is if everyone who's going to go work for doge or anything else in the government um put all their assets and interests into a separate trust and left it alone for four years i think that would be lovely because otherwise i think we're going to have to play you know who had who was in which spv that had capital and which company that didn't SPEAKER_27: influence it it's going to get messy like uh there will be all kind i would think that smart people SPEAKER_374: like really smart people will be hyper aware of these issues and i'll just leave it at that no i SPEAKER_56: know what you're saying i i hope that your optimism and my my slightly tempered optimism are both SPEAKER_39: exceeded by performance because if you're working with the public purse yeah there are different rules David Friedberg: and i think the people who are involved want to see less of the public funding the purse SPEAKER_27: i think they want the purse smaller they want the regulations less so if you just think about what's in the best interest of a free market the people who are in my circles and who are now in you know surrounding donald trump the the group we're talking about here they're all free market they're all less regulation and they're all for smaller government so if you're aligned with that and to have less regulation and more competition and having consumers win that's the vibe that you're seeing right now SPEAKER_17: uh and trust me the second anybody is benefiting in some personal way it is going to be the height of the focus of the media of the public of the competitors of the adversaries so i think it's kind of baked into the system that if anybody is trying to do something nefarious it would come up real quick SPEAKER_21: it would be highlighted very fast well i hope that the people um of free market power who have congregated in texas have the ability to make weed legal in texas so that way all bothered to show SPEAKER_87: up okay it's been amazing episode do we want to close with a twist 500 let's do one quick one and we'll save the other ones for for monday so everyone might recall that we had a founder on SPEAKER_00: from a company called dune and i am adding dune to yield 500 because they are an excellent excellent company okay this is dune it is a blockchain data search company two types of monetization sas and usage based raises under 80 million dollars usv and co2 are in there um but a small company as we know from the show jason and one that i think is well positioned to capture upside from the current moment in the the bull market that's talked about with coffeezilla and so i'm incredibly excited about this company i love their data i could not live without it so i SPEAKER_335: think they are going to be a big success okay so it's dune and it's a blockchain data analysis platform that allows users to query and visualize public blockchain data as we talked about SPEAKER_27: you were looking at the hawk to a data for that coin you might be able to find patterns etc sunlight is the best disinfectant and union square ventures my good friend fred wilson the founder of it is an investor in this and when he invests in something it tends to be a you know a really legit great company that has a chance to be very successful if you look at the returns that union square ventures have it's extraordinary so when we do these and we add somebody twist 500 really looking at who the investors are is a critical part because you know they they they tend to um follow a certain pattern when companies become successful a firm like union square ventures might have been in early or might be coming in and competing for that series a and competing successfully because they did twitter and SPEAKER_309: another great company so uh shout out to that team over there yes shout out to them also we need to have SPEAKER_00: um fred wilson on the show because i've never met him and that would be a great excuse for me to get to get uh yeah with annoying questions anyways this has been yet another busy busy week here at twist we are back next week with even more we have interviews scheduled jason we have news to get through charts SPEAKER_17: earnings ipos the whole thing i think we're four days a week next week too and i'm hoping that we get uh our uh weekly ai with uh sunny back on track on tuesday so i'm hoping for that that i can sleep on tuesday and it's gonna be lovely there you go so we're monday tuesday wednesday friday next week right around 12 texas time 1 p.m east coast time i'm on the west coast now so we started an hour later so we'll see you next time bye bye