SPEAKER_00: Apple has launched the $1,999 iPhone Duo. Cheaper models are reportedly being pushed to spring 2027.

SPEAKER_02: Apple took an existing product category

SPEAKER_04: that was very popular for a very long time and they reinvented it. If Siri becomes an open source LLM and everything on my phone that's powered by AI is using a local model, that could be very interesting to me. All right, everybody.

SPEAKER_07: Welcome back to This Week in Startups. It is Friday, September 11th, 2026. Can't believe it's 25 years from September 11th when I was living in New York and was wondering where my brother was, who was a firefighter at the time for half the day. Really intense memories I have from those days.

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_07: Been thinking about it. Don't have too much to say other than my heart goes out to the families and for those people who don't have a memory of this, get a bit educated on it. And exactly how intense it was for this country and then how aligned the country was. Being a New Yorker, one of the most amazing moments I experienced in my life was the unity that I felt walking the streets of Manhattan. And I was in Manhattan for it.

SPEAKER_09: I watched it happen with my own eyes. And I stayed in Manhattan. The island of Manhattan was locked down. You weren't allowed to leave

SPEAKER_07: and you weren't allowed to get on the island. I didn't leave. I wasn't allowed to leave after that. So I was there the whole time on 26th Street at my loft on 26th and 11th. Memory I remember was coming out of my building after the second tower got hit. And in my building on 26th Street, there was a secret garage which housed the FBI and a bunch of other agencies in my loft building. It was an FBI agent with a machine gun. So imagine a guy in a suit like Sicario, like wearing a perfect suit, but having a massive automatic rifle. And I came out and I said, what's the latest? He goes, we're under attack. They bombed the Pentagon. And I have never seen an individual law enforcement officer look so rattled. And I was like, oh my God. I went to the West Side Highway and I looked down and you took out your, had a cell phone at the time in 2001. They weren't super common. No service. Everybody was trying to call, find their loved ones. It was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my life when those towers fell. It was visceral.

SPEAKER_21: We were not prepared. Like Americans didn't think that anything like that could happen on American soil. It was shocking on a level, I don't know if people who weren't around can really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_07: But to the camaraderie, for those next 30 days, you'd be walking around Manhattan and everybody would just say, how are you doing? How are you holding up?

SPEAKER_26: And Manhattan is one cacophony of never ending symphony of people yelling at each other

SPEAKER_07: and blasting their horns. I saw somebody like three to four days after 9-11 honk somebody. And the person got out of their car

SPEAKER_27: and like kind of did one of these. The other person got out of their car and did one of these.

SPEAKER_28: I'm throwing my hands up like, what are you doing? The other person put their hands up.

SPEAKER_04: They walked up to each other. They hugged each other. Wow. Said, I'm sorry. I just thought you didn't see the light. It was like the act of just honking somebody,

SPEAKER_26: which is what New York drivers live for. You know, you're doing that 20 times every mile

SPEAKER_29: as you're honking somebody because I'm trying to get somewhere.

SPEAKER_04: New Yorkers were embracing each other and just holding each other. It was unbelievable, my experience from that.

SPEAKER_09: And I basically, my entire life

SPEAKER_07: is bookmarked pre-9-11, post-9-11. I think about my life as like two chapters because that was the end of the innocence,

SPEAKER_02: I think for a lot of us. And- Well, yeah, in the 90s, there was this idea

SPEAKER_00: and then we'll move on. We got to show you. But in the 90s, I think there was this idea that we were at the end of history. You know, we sort of figured out, we figured everything out. We got past, the Cold War was over. We kind of figured out racism and prejudice. And there was this idea like this, everything was just going to be

SPEAKER_21: sort of easier from now on. And then 9-11 happened and it was just like, oh no, we were wrong. We don't have anything figured out. We don't know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_04: I think empire is like the way to think of it. We had this incredible empire that had reached a level of like, you know, post-Clinton, like, oh my God, we have this perfect society. We figured everything out. We balanced the budget.

SPEAKER_39: We, their jobs, we got through the dot-com crash.

SPEAKER_41: Russia's got a president now. They're fine. Everything's going to be for, you know, we capitalism beat communism.

SPEAKER_00: The world was stable. Like that's really, that's really, it seems crazy now, but that's really what people thought in like 1996.

SPEAKER_04: Well, and it was, you know, the 90s were just such a magical decade. Hip-hop, the internet, magazine publishing.

SPEAKER_26: I just experienced this incredible 20s. My 20s were peak America. And we didn't have social media.

SPEAKER_07: We didn't have this just incredible animosity

SPEAKER_04: between Americans and haves and have-nots. Everybody was just world positive. Hey, you're building a company. You got rich. Great. Oh, hey, I got a job. And, you know, I'm raising a family.

SPEAKER_07: It just felt like the American dream had been realized. And I hope we have,

SPEAKER_49: can think of that spirit a little bit more and have consensus with each other that we're all in it together.

SPEAKER_07: I would like to see some more esprit de corps, as they say in the biz. But I'm thinking about my brother and all the firefighters I lost. My brother Josh was on the pile down there for the first two months afterwards. And then he, there were so many firefighters that died, over 340 of them. You know, and subsequently many from their lungs and what they breathed in.

SPEAKER_09: Those firefighters, there were so many funerals to be done that they had to space them out. And it was a year later and my brother was still going to funerals.

SPEAKER_07: So in order to have, you know, the amount of people show up for the funeral, which firefighters, you know, hundreds show up when a brother goes down. It was just really hard. So they just scheduled them over a year. It just never ended. And my poor brother had to be re-traumatized every weekend as part of the color guard and showing up there in the perfect uniforms and saluting and, you know,

SPEAKER_13: dealing with so many of his friends dying that day. Really horrific. And so shout out to my brother.

SPEAKER_51: And all right, let's get started. But before we start, we always like to applaud, applaud. We do. And I'll hit my button here on my lapel. I get to record the notes.

SPEAKER_26: And we now share our applaud notes. We do. We take every episode. We make a synopsis and we share that link. Yeah. And the show notes.

SPEAKER_00: It's very cool. I have, we, I'm recording our show right now via this plot pin that you see on me. It's getting, it's, it's hooked into the zoom.

SPEAKER_21: This was a question a lot of people ask. Well, isn't it only picking up your voice? How is it also getting Jason? It goes right into the zoom.

SPEAKER_00: It's recording it live. It's going to create both a summary and a transcript. So if you want to just go read the full, complete corrected AI corrected transcript, you could do that. But it also produces a very helpful summary. If you just want to hear, you know, notes on what happened during the show. And Jason, this is very cool. It's got all kinds of templates. So you could turn it into a memo. If you wanted to send it out to other people, you could turn it into a more robust or less robust summary,

SPEAKER_21: depending on what was most important to you. You could do all kinds of stuff with plot. We're putting it in the description. So just look at the description below. If you're watching this on YouTube and find the link, and it'll take you right to the plot synopsis of this show. And you could go to plot.ai slash twist. And if you use the code twist,

SPEAKER_00: we'll also get you 10% off a plot pin of your very own. So you can use this incredible system yourself.

SPEAKER_07: It's an incredible product. Can't live without it, especially when I'm traveling. That's when I use it a lot.

SPEAKER_04: I'm working out traveling, but incredible that plot now works with your zoom meetings. And here's an example. I think it's important to show this example here. So what we're seeing here is the summary of an AI frontier debate,

SPEAKER_26: but you can see how it puts it in these nice boxes and gives you all kinds of different ways to view the same data, whether you want a transcript, a summary, all of that is available. Really amazing. And you get the transcript right there. So if you listen to an episode and you really like, we used to write show notes and we always dreamed about having this level of comprehensiveness. Now plot just does it automatically for us. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_21: Just listening in while we record. And then it does this on its own. I don't have to do anything. It's amazing. It's web.plod.ai, by the way,

SPEAKER_65: if you want to go use that. All right. Cool.

SPEAKER_21: We got to talk about this Pentagon deal. The Pentagon is in talks to lend fluid stack $5 billion for AI

SPEAKER_00: infrastructure. Jason, it would be the largest loan. The department's office of strategic capital has ever made fluid stack being advised on that loan application by Aerobor bank, the brand new national bank from Andrew founder, Palmer Luckey specifically to serve tech and defense clients. The money not earmarked for building a new AI data center. It's meant to shore up the U S supply chain and manufacturing capacities behind the components that go into making data center lands just days after fluid

SPEAKER_67: stack closed a $1.5 billion round led by. Wait a second. You're saying the Pentagon. Yes. The U S military. Wants to invest in a startup. They want, yes, they're going to, they're going to put about $5 billion into a fluid stack.

SPEAKER_26: They want to own equity in the startup as opposed to just buying its product. Truth is most of the big popular AI models can handle your workloads just fine.

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SPEAKER_58: We're seeing sort of two threads. I think that are both coming together. AI paranoia, doomerism reaching a peak,

SPEAKER_00: including a lot of calls for the government to intercede and take over supervising AI development. And now the U S military actually wants to own a chunk of America's AI infrastructure. To me, this feels like, and I'm curious your thoughts, are we creeping toward nationalization of AI? Is that,

SPEAKER_76: is that where all this is going?

SPEAKER_75: Yeah, this is just a bad idea to pick the winners. The free market should be able to do this.

SPEAKER_26: We should not be using our taxes to like pick a winner in a market like this. If we want to have a sovereign wealth fund that invests in companies, we need to have a national discussion about that with the Senate, with the Congress involved, since they have the power of the purse procurement for specificity.

SPEAKER_07: products of course, like AWS versus this versus that. Okay. But why would we be owning shares in this company? That's not the mandate that's venture capital. That's capitalism.

SPEAKER_26: So now you have the government. If I'm understanding the story correctly, we're going to have our government competing against venture capital. So they're competing against Andreessen Horowitz for this equity in this company or competing with Sequoia to win this deal versus them. And then what does that say about how it's priced and what the valuation is? And then why would we go more into debt as a country to own equities like this? If you really wanted to use American exceptionalism to try to make a profit on these things, well, then I guess you could earmark $10 billion a year, give it to existing venture firms, ask them to give you a discounted carry for patriotic reasons. Like go to Andreessen Horowitz,

SPEAKER_07: go to Sequoia and say, Hey, we have $10 billion. We'll give you $500 million a year of the American taxpayers money. We would like you to give us, you know, 1% fees instead of 3% and 10% carry instead of 30%. Like in that it's the patriotic thing to do for the American people.

SPEAKER_77: But even then it's convoluted. We want smaller government. We don't want to own these companies. We want a free market. So now if, you know, pick whatever company you want. If we started owning as a country shares an open AI or Grok or SpaceX or whatever the company is, well, then does that mean we're obligated to pay that person and give them the contracts? And if we don't give them the contracts, well, why did we give the contract to open AI versus Anthropic? If we own 5% of one, it just adds conflicts all the way down. This does not seem like a great idea to me. We should have contracts we can back out of. We should have performance in the contracts and we should do competitive bidding. The end, right?

SPEAKER_58: Yeah. I mean, I feel like this has been a big Trump administration thing.

SPEAKER_02: They wanted like a little piece of the action, like Intel. We, we saw that previously. But we're paying for it here, right? We're not getting it for free.

SPEAKER_00: Yes. It's a low, like the, the Pentagon is giving $5 billion to FluidStack is,

SPEAKER_56: is my understanding of it. As a loan to build out their data centers.

SPEAKER_00: That's the loan to, to, to finance the infrastructure that allows for more data centers is, is, is what the story says.

David Friedberg: I mean, framed as a loan. Uh,

SPEAKER_37: we did do stack 5 billion.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's how, that's how they're saying it. And it's their bank. So if it's in fact a loan,

SPEAKER_26: there is some precedent for this. Um,

SPEAKER_07: we did, um, a series of energy loans, famously to Solyndra. If you remember that failed company,

SPEAKER_27: I believe Fisker also failed. I think they both defaulted on their loans. You can check with an LLM right now.

SPEAKER_26: And then Tesla and Tesla paid their loan back and they paid it back, uh, with the interest ahead of schedule.

SPEAKER_07: And that was an Obama era trying to, in the age of, um, global warming and wanting to have more energy sovereignty. They wanted to see some national champions and national champion. They did build in Tesla, $1.5 trillion company that would have argued for them to have warrants.

SPEAKER_26: So if we are going to give a loan, like we did to Tesla, if we had warrants to buy 10% of Tesla, that we could execute those warrants anytime in the next, say 10 years. So we had penny warrants to buy 5% of it.

SPEAKER_49: That would have been a $75 billion, $50 billion,

SPEAKER_09: $25 billion return on top of the interest of the loan. So maybe, but we, we got a lot of debt already. So it just seems overly complicated. And why can't Fluidstack just get a loan?

SPEAKER_77: That's what I don't understand. Like there's so many, there's so much money in the world right now. Why can't they just get a loan? Why do they need the loan from the defense department? If I'm understanding the story,

SPEAKER_21: the U.S. taxpayer. Yeah. I don't, I know Fluidstack does have similar structures. Google, for example, hones a potential 14% equity stake in exchange for guaranteeing Fluidstack lease obligations on some of their other data center campuses. So maybe there is a warrant situation.

SPEAKER_67: Whoa, wait a second. So Google gave a loan and got 14% warrants. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Google holds warrants for a potential 14% equity stake in exchange for guaranteeing Fluidstack lease obligations on key data center campuses.

SPEAKER_67: This is from an Ars Technica article the other day. So the U.S. government doesn't get 14%, but Google does. I don't know. So that. Wait, we're speculating. The, the, the article does not let us know what war,

SPEAKER_98: like, I'm just saying it is possible.

SPEAKER_99: But this proves my point. If,

SPEAKER_77: if this is true in it, maybe it's true. Cause this isn't in the story that they are getting warrants. Um, so if they were getting warrants, that would be something the America that they would include in the story, I think, because that would be in the benefit of America. So this proves my point. The government's not good at negotiating and being a sharp elbowed venture capitalist or a sharp corporate development office like Google is. Google knows they can extract warrants in exchange for the loans. By the way, that's what Silicon Valley bank would do, right? They would give you a loan. You'd pay it back over some period of time and their pot sweetener, just a little bit of, you know, sprinkles on the Sunday cherry on top would be, I guess the ability to buy some warrants. So if it really works out, you know, cause I gave you the 5 billion, I get like the equivalent of,

SPEAKER_29: I mean, if this company became worth a hundred billion, it'd be 14 billion because we're 10 billion, 1.4 billion. So there's like another 1.4 billion here. Like if it's a 10 billion dollar,

SPEAKER_77: we get a little taste on top of it. But the government doesn't have those individuals working at it to negotiate that stuff. Just like private companies don't have generals to, you know,

SPEAKER_104: do wars,

SPEAKER_77: fight wars, or we don't have Delta force, you know, or the seals. Like, so each group has their speciality. Maybe not,

SPEAKER_07: but if we were going to do this, I really think one of the problems we have right now is the dysfunctional Congress, Senate, House of Representatives, however you phrase it.

SPEAKER_26: What's the way to phrase both? Congress. Congress. So Congress. Congress is them together.

SPEAKER_110: The House and the Senate together is Congress. Yes.

Chamath Palihapitiya: So Congress, power of the purse, backstop against crazy spending,

SPEAKER_26: $5,000 checks, stimmy checks, Biden forgiving loans, all that stuff should not be possible. It should go through the power of the purse as the founding fathers intended. And I got to tell you, man, less government, less involvement, less blocking M&A. Like we, we don't need more of this socialistic, you know,

SPEAKER_114: yeah, that's now becoming no difference,

SPEAKER_04: but Republicans used to believe this, by the way, Democrats used to believe this, less government. I mean, it was kind of built into the system. So I kind of feel like, you know, this is, this is not like Dems versus Republicans.

SPEAKER_26: Both parties are now just too involved in making things too much bigger. When you put your thumb on the scale, like what is fluid stacks competitors now going to do? They have to go to the government to get a sweetheart deal maybe, or I don't know. And it just seems like it's unnecessary. So why are we doing convoluted things like this? Right. It's unnecessary. And then that makes you wonder, people are then going to wonder, did somebody buy this deal? So now you have to ask, you know, when a loan happens like this, how did the loan originate? With those energy loans, people applied for them and, you know, they won them. Now you have to say, okay, did any of these people donate to the ballroom, the crypto, this thing, America, you know, a Trump PAC, like who's greasing the wheels to get a $5 billion loan. And even if they didn't, the appearance of impropriety now happens when, you know, $5 billion drops from the sky. So it just, it's a bad look for the company, bad look for,

SPEAKER_03: it seems convoluted for the government. Why are we doing this? The government's got enough they got to deal with. There's plenty going on. The government doesn't need to be.

SPEAKER_119: Bad idea in my mind, but hey, listen, who knows? This is just a breaking news story. We're commenting on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_121: Let's move on. When you're an early stage founder and you're just starting out, you're probably going to rely on a few different tools to run your business.

SPEAKER_26: And then you're going to try to duct tape them together. Yeah. And that might be a fine placeholder until you finish your MVP,

SPEAKER_121: but this will get expensive and messy fast.

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SPEAKER_00: Apple has launched the $1,999 iPhone Duo. It is foldable. Of course, John Ternus took over from Tim Cook as the new CEO of Apple on September 1st. And in Cupertino, he ran his first keynote the other day. He unveiled the iPhone Duo. It's Apple's first foldable. Opens to a 7.6 inch screen. Starts at around two grand, running up to $3,200 if you want two terabytes of storage. The more consequential decision was what he didn't announce. There is no standard iPhone. Hold on a second.

SPEAKER_56: Go back to that screen there. There's two different sizes. Is that what I'm saying? Is that folded and then unfolded?

SPEAKER_21: Oh, it's opened and turned vertical. That is folded and unfolded. Folded, yeah, on the left there. Also, no standard iPhone 18 this fall. Cheaper models are reportedly being pushed to spring 2027. So what do you think of iPhone Duo? Are you going to rush out and get a double-sided foldable iPhone?

SPEAKER_130: The foldable for me, this did not result in me using the phone that much

SPEAKER_07: because I had the Pixel Fold Pro 9 or whatever.

SPEAKER_09: It's my backup phone when I'm traveling. I need to have a backup on a different service. Something happens to my iPhone or if I'm traveling places where they might tap my iPhone, I wipe the phone and have a burner phone, yada, yada. And so I have the iPhone Air. I like it to a certain extent, but the camera sucks and the battery life is terrible, but I always have backup batteries, so it's not as big of an issue for me. But I don't want to compromise on my camera anymore because I have kids. So I'm going to get off the iPhone Air. I initially was like, I'm never going to do a foldable again. However, I heard Dave Morin talking about it on his podcast and other folks talking about how the screen feels next level. And this is another instance where Apple took an existing product category that was very popular for a very long time. I think foldables have been around over five or six years now.

SPEAKER_07: And they reinvented it.

SPEAKER_26: So I need to get my hands on it. The problem I have with the foldable I have is it's just too thick. It's like two smartphones laid on top of each other. And then the instances where I actually open it up and use it, I don't have too many of them. If I'm watching short videos, it's just fine. And then the software doesn't seem to leverage it, but Apple has a way of inspiring people to make these kinds of software. So I have to see how Amazon, TikTok, Twitter, DoorDash, Uber, like when I open it up, does the Uber app when I'm shopping for Uber Eats, is it like delightful where I have my, on the right-hand side, I have like the menu that I'm going through on the left-hand side, I have the shared order with my family. We do like shared orders. And I can see that filling in. Like if I could see both screens at the same time, maybe interesting. So just off the top of my head, if I'm seeing, if I'm on a Zoom call and on one side I have the chat and one side I have the video and I don't have to switch between them, like those things. So, you know, those could be interesting to me if they can convince the software people to rewrite their software, to have both things going on. Perhaps when I'm doing chat GPT or Claude or Grok, if I had the output in one window and I have the Grok thread in the other, you know how Grok will inline the images and videos you're creating documents? Maybe the documents on the right and the chats on the left, maybe that's compelling, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_63: I mean, yeah, I agree with you. It's just like a phone is the right size for what I want to carry around with me all day.

SPEAKER_00: I could certainly think of times where I'd open up, like if you're on the plane, you want to watch a movie, you open up the phone. But I don't know if there's enough of that to make me want to carry like a double. If it feels sleek, if it's folded and somehow there's engineering magic and it just feels like a regular phone in my pocket,

SPEAKER_21: but then I can open it up, I would consider that. But otherwise it feels like it's just going to be more phone than I need.

SPEAKER_92: So here on the right, we have, I don't know what app this is. It's like, yeah,

SPEAKER_21: it's some sort of, it's some sort of like, oh, I thought I knew, but now I don't on the right.

SPEAKER_77: Maybe it's like a to-do list or something or it's a, what does it say underneath it? It's Siri, scroll down a little bit. Siri,

SPEAKER_07: the all new dedicated Siri app brings together rich conversations across a user's Apple product. So I guess this is their chat GPT. Yes. Interesting.

SPEAKER_26: So on the left are my, those boxes on the left, Athena statue, light reflection, et cetera, permits in Greece.

SPEAKER_58: I think these are previous chats. Like these are the questions you've asked in the past. Permits in Greece, you know, like this is somebody traveling.

SPEAKER_148: Literally what I was just saying. Yes. Those are the chats.

SPEAKER_07: The history on the left in bubbles. On the right is the active chat you're on, the Athena statue. That's kind of interesting. Let's go to the right one. See what the next example is. So here we have weaving workshop.

SPEAKER_26: Scroll down a little bit. Is that Siri again? I guess that's like their chat GPT competitor describing what I said earlier. Go to the next one. Let's see the next screen. Okay. So this is notes, I think.

SPEAKER_20: This is write and edit with Siri virtually anywhere just by describing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: This doesn't really use the two screen particularly well. That's a bad example. Meh. Here's examples

SPEAKER_07: of your calendar and clock on the left and then your message is coming in on the right.

SPEAKER_04: That's kind of lame. See the next one. This is folding it backwards, breaking its back to have a nightstand clock. Yeah. That's a gimmicky, not interested. Okay. That's a zero of 10. All right. Here it is again like flipping it so you don't need an iPhone stand and then here's playing music on it.

SPEAKER_07: Nothing different. So I give that like a two of 10. Maybe that's interesting on a plane if you're watching a movie but then you don't get the full use of the screen. I find this whole thing lame. But if you can go back down

SPEAKER_04: to this one, I think maybe had something. Is there a video? Well, this is, yeah,

SPEAKER_41: you can be basically

SPEAKER_156: browsing two windows at once and then you can flip them around like you just, you know, if you want the left and the right and merge them and, you know,

SPEAKER_159: just keeping multiple windows up. Yeah, but I don't see

SPEAKER_29: an application here yet. I see no application. Okay, wait. All right. Here's Slack. Here's Slack, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_26: So, okay. Now this gets interesting. Let's see the next Slack screen. Oh, let's go back then

SPEAKER_07: to the previous Slack screen. So this is interesting because on the left

SPEAKER_09: you have your channels and messages, direct messages on the right you have the actual thread. That's kind of interesting. Let's go to the left because I think there are some images to the left here.

SPEAKER_77: Okay, so this is a Zoom call or a FaceTime call on the bottom and on the top

SPEAKER_07: is a web browser. I think maybe somebody is sharing their screen. Somebody is sharing their screen. So that's actually what I just described. That's interesting. Next slide.

SPEAKER_130: Let's go backwards to the left.

SPEAKER_166: Okay, that's just a big hero image. What is this one? This looks like editing a video.

SPEAKER_21: That's the transcript on the right and the video and you can see the timeline at the bottom on the left.

SPEAKER_166: That's where the users are going to make or break this is does having

SPEAKER_07: the two screens provide so much value that you open it as opposed to just using the top level screen before you open it, the front-facing screen. The front-facing screen kind of gets everything done when you open it up. You know, does it have a two-windowed experience and the app is actually worth doing? That's actually the interesting thing.

SPEAKER_170: It's absurd. It's $2,000 to $3,000 for this device. Yeah, that's crazy. Ridiculous. I mean, I feel like

SPEAKER_58: 99% of these utilities are the things

SPEAKER_00: people are using it for. That's what we have tablets for. Like, there's already phone, tablet, computer. I don't know if we need another category in the middle there

SPEAKER_172: hiring freelancers can be a great way for your startup to keep your headcount low while accessing

SPEAKER_125: the specific expertise that your team needs. But, let's be honest, it takes so much time to source and vet these new hires, even if they're super talented. And then, you've got to track their work, pay their invoices. It's a full-time job. Thankfully,

SPEAKER_68: I've got the answer for you. It's called Upwork. I've used it countless times to help my businesses find highly skilled freelance professionals to do really specialized work. Obviously, software development, but AI implementation, marketing, design, anything you can think of. You can cut down on all the hassles by handling the contracts and the payments inside their platforms. You don't need to become a full-time HR department. They've got over

SPEAKER_125: 170,000 freelancers holding that coveted five-star rating.

SPEAKER_121: And that's why you can hire with complete confidence from Upwork. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

SPEAKER_26: That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com Upwork.com I mean, I travel with all three. Phone, tablet, and computer. Right.

SPEAKER_00: Phone, tablet, laptop. That's the suite of devices. I don't need a fourth niche in there. I don't think.

SPEAKER_26: It depends on, like, I've got to see what it feels like because I had the same position about an iPad. I was like, I don't think this is different enough for my laptop.

SPEAKER_04: And then once you started using it, you're like, it is kind of different. I prefer to watch when I'm in bed, like, you know, we're streaming a movie or something or playing, like, a casual game like you're seeing here. It is a better experience to use an iPad than a computer or your phone. Yes. So, I'm not price sensitive, but I also

SPEAKER_07: don't want to get ripped off.

SPEAKER_04: FaceTime looks interesting. I don't know. I think with all Apple, with new Apple products, and this is like, this is a new product category, to be honest,

SPEAKER_09: I need to put it in my hands. And typically, the second version is the one to get. So, like, it took four iterations

SPEAKER_07: of the watch to have it be worthy. AirPods were pretty good out of the gate, but really the second, third, fourth version really started to cook with noise cancellation eventually.

SPEAKER_09: I don't know.

SPEAKER_07: I want to see

SPEAKER_09: John Ternus do something completely revolutionary like a car. Something in healthcare that's revolutionary. I know it sounds silly, but I would like to see them make a suite of health products that go beyond the watch, like a scale, blood pressure cuff. I know other people make these kind of things, but I think they should make an Apple watch that's kind of like the Whoop and, you know, that is like less like a watch and more just like dedicated. I would like to see them go all in on health, all in on transportation. Like, they should have made the car. I think they should have made a car. I would also like to see them do a television because that could be and then a Sonos competitor. Like, they have like, they still have

SPEAKER_26: one single speaker. They should have gone for the home automation really hard.

SPEAKER_09: I use Unify products now. I use Dropcam and I used to use Ring doorbells and I use Sonos still. I would rather have like an Apple suite

SPEAKER_137: of high-res speakers that were easier to use. Sure.

SPEAKER_187: I would rather have an Apple TV instead of a Samsung or a Sony or whatever I have. Yeah, I have

SPEAKER_21: an Amazon Fire TV and it's pretty crap. I'm sure Apple would improve on the Fire TV model. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: The question is,

SPEAKER_07: would you pay instead of, would you pay $1,000 for an Apple flat panel TV instead of $500 for the, you know, junkie version?

SPEAKER_196: Yeah, if it was a significant upgrade, I think I might actually. I think it's Apple TV

SPEAKER_04: sounds good. That's what John Ternis has to do. He's find another category and I don't think VR, AR is it. I think that's kind of lame. I do like the idea of taking videos and pictures of your kids with the glasses eventually

SPEAKER_07: and AR. But it feels like AR is still years away. Yeah. Like another two or three years.

SPEAKER_20: And they gotta figure out a way

SPEAKER_21: to make it not look dorky. I still think they're trapped in that when you're wearing the glasses camera, you look silly. And then AI,

SPEAKER_04: like just going all in on AI desktops and if they can get, if Siri becomes an open source LLM and everything on my phone that's powered by AI is using a local model, that could be very interesting to me. So, you know, if I want to query my photos or if I want to have an agent, the agent is running on local hardware, only goes up to the cloud, encrypted.

SPEAKER_48: And with all

SPEAKER_04: this data leaking happening at OpenAI

SPEAKER_48: allegedly and Anthropic and all those concerns about Sovereign AI, I would love to have my iCloud include a $20

SPEAKER_07: subscription to their open source encrypted. They're not looking and doing any reinforcement

SPEAKER_09: learning with my data. That would be a big win. And then having that work on the incredible hardware I'm going to have on my desktop on this $12,000 Mac Studio.

SPEAKER_202: Exactly. It should all tie together.

SPEAKER_09: And I went from spending $1,500 on MacBook Air to spending $3,000 on MacBook Pro specifically to get to 48 gigs of RAM. So, I think that's going to be the big trend. I think that's where they can make a lot of money.

SPEAKER_77: You know, the other story that didn't come up was this story of Sam Altman telling the open AI employees that startup

SPEAKER_119: is slowing cutting-edge AI development. Yeah, we can talk about that one. I don't believe it's true. I'll just say that.

SPEAKER_67: So, wait, you don't think Sam Altman said this in the meeting or you don't think he means it?

SPEAKER_03: I think he might have been floating it. Okay, all right. I'm, again, back to conspiracy corner,

SPEAKER_77: conspiracy cow, my alter ego, conspiracy cow. Conspiracy cow says he's floating the idea and then people are running with it and then maybe it was leaked on purpose

SPEAKER_07: of, hey,

SPEAKER_26: you know, to get more attention and or to appeal to developers who have high P dooms, you know, hey, yeah, you know, if this is really dangerous, I would be okay slowing it down. I think that's, I don't know if did an exact quote come out of the story because I

SPEAKER_04: didn't see an exact quote. I saw like a paraphrase in my timeline and this obviously wasn't recorded. This is some, was this an email or was it something he said? It says

SPEAKER_207: in a company wide meeting this week Altman told

SPEAKER_00: so we don't have a quote. I don't have a direct quote. Here's Bloomberg. In a company wide meeting this week, Altman told employees that open AI could potentially pace its AI development perhaps in conjunction with several other AI labs but that some may not agree to do so according to people familiar with the matter who asked not to be named. So this is somebody who was at this meeting

SPEAKER_21: said Sam Altman floated this idea during a meeting. That's what we're reporting.

Chamath Palihapitiya: This is the media running with this and then presenting it as if

SPEAKER_26: he's like we're slowing down. He's basically having an intellectual discussion here. A theoretical open to all possibilities. If everybody slows down of course we'd slow down. If everybody wants to go fast we'll go fast. This is not him saying we're slowing anything down by any means. He's certainly not going to give up his lead. It's not like he's going to stand on

SPEAKER_210: business right now and be like you know what we know we're going too fast we're going to slow down you all can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_211: And again not to put my tinfoil hat on too

SPEAKER_00: tightly. But if you really believed if you Sam Altman and Dario if they honestly believed this thing I'm inventing in a few months could take over the world and kill all humans they wouldn't just be floating this in a meeting they would be getting very serious about what do we do to unwind this thing we've created like Frankenstein wasn't like well maybe I shouldn't have created a monster I'll consider maybe not making another monster he like tried to burn the guy down

SPEAKER_21: and ran away you know like they're not acting like people who are scared of their invention

SPEAKER_02: really intelligent people can run away with it let's get to our guest at long last

SPEAKER_00: he is the founder of T-Maker he's a returning guest on the oh that's the studio behind apps like Outrank Revid and Super X

SPEAKER_21: returning guest to the show we're bringing we're bringing him back for more T-Bow Louis Lucas thanks for joining us well fantastic welcome to the show wonderful to have you back so today T-Bow is here

SPEAKER_00: he's not just hanging out as a guest although we love to have him it's him he's going to show us his system of AI agency built that watches his products code base spots new features and then automatically generates

SPEAKER_21: content about it no editors no cameras required it just looks at the code and delivers content straight to your email and slack can't wait to get a look at this

SPEAKER_61: so this seems very tactical and also very practical quite practical Jason yes

SPEAKER_217: yeah pretty excited to share that especially because I think I'm going against your buddy Jason this dear Mr. Musk and so it's it's both incredibly scary for me but I think it's going to be my most serious and ambitious project we see right let's see it's a

SPEAKER_219: grok bot killer that's what you're saying

SPEAKER_221: exactly oh wow so a bit about me I'm basically managing seven projects right now your team Jason has been asking

SPEAKER_224: how I am managing seven projects with an extremely limited team I think we are barely more than a person per product so yeah less than 10 people in the team and so one answer has been this launch where we are trying to basically going against grok bot it's called squad and that's an agentic platform I guess like everybody and today I'm going to try to share a few workflows on squad that you can just apply with grok bots with cloud code or anything that's where you run your agents the one I'm developer I'm a developer and so it's incredibly hard for me since I'm very active on social to know what to talk about on social like we went from three years ago to one or two commits per day on our products to today I think we have 50 commits 50 new things coming every day on each product and so of course you cannot talk about all of them and so what we did here is that we have our agents monitoring every week everything that happened on each of our products for the last seven days the agent is going to pick the most relevant and high value feature especially the customer facing features and it's going to use one of my other products and I it will create a video that explains the crazy thing about this new feature that I will be able to then use everywhere

SPEAKER_225: all right so just to explain here you're going to actually run this now you

SPEAKER_26: have your agents finding new features building new features and then making the marketing for them

SPEAKER_227: that would take about an hour to run so I very close to this other workflow is that it's doing 99% of the work and then everything that I see I can edit everything that I see I can just tweak it myself and then ship it to my audience it's very similar to this one like the FEA's weekly email basically it works a bit the same like tons of things are happening and you

SPEAKER_224: have tons of people that you want to update every week it can be users your team or anyone else so

SPEAKER_07: you have affiliates people reselling your software and here you have it doing an update email to all of them and this agent is doing what with the data and what is the outcome you're hoping to have

SPEAKER_227: this agent is going to work pretty much the same it's going to look at everything that I push on my repository every new update that I did on my products and it's going to package this email that would be ready to go with just one click for me so I can check I can just blindly trust the

SPEAKER_07: send send it and what type of time would that take you

SPEAKER_227: I used to have a dedicated person in India doing that for between a thousand to two thousand euros per month so it's so you had what were they

SPEAKER_240: a product manager a copywriter what was their skill set

SPEAKER_227: that would be a copywriter with some like some business understanding it's

SPEAKER_224: it's it's it's hard to find but like right on X if you scroll X you have plenty of those people that are very talented I've

SPEAKER_119: done that job so that's amazing so $24,000

SPEAKER_07: in savings and you get to do it continuously and do you

SPEAKER_245: read it before it goes out right now I'm not anymore honestly I did that reading it and it's going out to your affiliates yeah

SPEAKER_227: I did that you had a question eight weeks and

SPEAKER_41: tuning process like you

SPEAKER_21: have it do the work you are looking at the early examples and you are saying I don't like this do the video this way I don't like

SPEAKER_44: this write the email this way like like what's the process there and how long does it take until the agent is just ready to knock it

SPEAKER_227: and then the AI is going to do mistakes and you can just tell it basically like you would just take a screenshot of the newsletter and you would just hand it on the chat here and say I really didn't like this part please make sure that this is not happening again and it's very confusing for people that UI is working like this more and more right now if you work with agents you can just tell it what to do exactly

SPEAKER_224: like a human that's the hard part and once you understand this it gets very easy

SPEAKER_41: I think it's like a rule of three Jason in my experience like by the third time the

SPEAKER_21: Grok bot is doing the thing I really don't need to give it notes it's like the first time the second time I

SPEAKER_02: three

SPEAKER_256: times and done pretty good you

SPEAKER_255: ask about how I

SPEAKER_227: would do this without the agent but I think the most interesting use case is where you would not do it without the agents and so there are just plenty of things there is this little hack FE8 is interesting because it always leaves a mark like FE8 they generally use this little tag in their in the web address that they use like they would add some tracking like specific

SPEAKER_224: tracking codes and so it's very easy for you to find on the web you can have your agents try to find FE8 code on the web address of your competitors and trying to them into your own FE8 that's something that it's incredibly time consuming I would not do that on my own like I would not hire a team to that but I started doing that with agent because now I just can you know

SPEAKER_260: amazing all right continue anything else you want to show there is something that I think you cannot do

SPEAKER_224: with grogbots but I think you can with with because all this together like if you run all this it's gonna burn so much token there's no way you can run this on a 200 per month subscription with codex or cloud code so one thing that I wanted to show you and I think everyone should do

SPEAKER_227: that is

SPEAKER_224: one cloud code one and so they would fall back between each other when one of them is going down so this is the $200

SPEAKER_87: a month premium subscription which

Chamath Palihapitiya: has a lot of tokens in it and probably gives you if you were to estimate a $200 super subscription on these services gives you $1000 or $2000 worth of usage tokens what's your guess I

SPEAKER_227: think it's much more than this there is this guy Theo on YouTube that did exactly this like it compared how much it would cost with a real API cost

SPEAKER_267: it was something like $15k per month it's insane wow so Claude

Chamath Palihapitiya: is giving you $15,000 worth of tokens according to this person's claim for

SPEAKER_07: $200 which means to Milan these companies are basically doing price dumping similar to you get addicted to it eventually I guess their hope is that these tokens come down and cost enough that that $200 eventually becomes worthwhile or people who are on the $200 plans

SPEAKER_09: eventually say I'm getting so much value from this I'm willing to pay $2,000 I'm willing to pay $800 I'm willing to pay $5,000 a month but you're stacking them and

SPEAKER_07: your system and your system is called squad that's your product to do all this then stacks them is that against the

SPEAKER_270: terms of service or it's just clever

SPEAKER_227: it it's a very good question it was at one point but since OpenAI allowed it Entropic had to revert their decision and it's now allowed again and so it's completely compliant and you cannot get banned on this but when I share on X that I'm stacking 300 200 per month subscriptions people go crazy like how are you burning that much tokens but I think that's because you

SPEAKER_224: are not using agent as their full potential you need to run those workflows and what people don't understand is that you just dump your using and the agent themselves would come up with very interesting use cases that you can just run by yourself on any agent platform you don't

Chamath Palihapitiya: have to get everything authenticated your Google ad account your Facebook meta ad account your affiliate account if you're

SPEAKER_26: using some third party and then it eventually figures out how to make sense of all that now

SPEAKER_227: yeah definitely I think you mentioned Google ads but I so I was not super happy about the person working on Google for us like it was managing Google ads for us I was paying this guy 5k per month I was able to fire the guy and to create this workflow where the agent would it would give the exact step by step click on this click on this click on this on how to update the ads to do

SPEAKER_224: things properly and so we now have better performance than ever it works super well I'm super happy

SPEAKER_62: what's interesting about what you're doing Lon what he's doing is he's

Chamath Palihapitiya: now

SPEAKER_62: taking

Chamath Palihapitiya: what he would pay consultants and it would take

SPEAKER_26: him six months to get in a groove with them and just saying well I'll just up front that with five hours of you know AI agent testing but when I get to that sixth hour to your point of like maybe three swings at bat it will then run forever

SPEAKER_07: recursively getting better or the LLMs get better just on their own and when they release Fable or whatever Astra the next one the next one it will just have

SPEAKER_26: a dashboard imagine if your competitor does you're hiring somebody you're spending $60,000 in order to solve this problem and what are you spending

SPEAKER_07: like in tokens

SPEAKER_09: on this one job $100 a month $10 a week who knows something de minimis by comparison

SPEAKER_217: yeah

SPEAKER_227: it's it's not prompting it's systems like you take time putting those systems in place and then they run forever it's definitely not the case you cannot just get stuck into prompting code if you do that you get mandatory in front of your computer every single day to make things go forward if you put the system in place and they move forward on their own it's a game changer

SPEAKER_282: incredible well done just super inspiring anything else you want to show before we wrap up

SPEAKER_255: yeah I guess I guess you see a lot of errors

SPEAKER_227: what I absolutely love about this platform is how you exactly

SPEAKER_224: exactly how you would manage employees giving you anything that might have gone wrong exactly right here

SPEAKER_99: and who is the product is squad these agents are for you running your SaaS product in case people

SPEAKER_07: lost the script here but squad is your new product you have seven other SaaS products but squad is the product like Grokbot or I guess quad agents or open AI product

SPEAKER_119: Kodak no not Kodak they have another work it's

SPEAKER_95: chat GPT work I guess would be the equivalent here or having an open claw or mes et cetera so who are you

SPEAKER_172: putting your squad who is your ideal customer profile for squad I guess

SPEAKER_227: it's basically the web founders who has a small audience on socials the guy on X that is running multiple side projects at the same time he is already kind of successful like he has 1k to 20k per month in earnings on other products and because he's a web founder he can integrate many many services

SPEAKER_224: and it has a huge value in just making the connection between each of them

SPEAKER_282: okay awesome and where can people find out more

SPEAKER_224: so about squad squad.so very easy and me I'm Tebow maker on X and my DMs are open and I'm talking about startups and growth every single day

SPEAKER_187: awesome well done and we'll drop you off and look forward

SPEAKER_77: to having you on again to do more tactical and practical talks getting

SPEAKER_120: lots of good founders together to put some

SPEAKER_292: hacks together for everybody so

SPEAKER_03: I'm still in love with lanterns

SPEAKER_56: they're four episodes in this guy Kyle Chandler is playing Hal Jordan Aaron Pierre is John Stewart

SPEAKER_07: Kyle Chandler is the best casting in a superhero film since Christopher Reeve and Robert Downey Jr. yeah he's he's

SPEAKER_77: great I used to love Green Lantern this guy playing an old Hal Jordan is got the swagger confidence and doesn't give an F like he's incredible incredibly confident even when the rings not on his finger yeah when the rings run out of juice he's still incredibly confident and he this weathered version of him after 35 years from the 80s 90s and 2000s you know this is taking place

SPEAKER_07: I think 2016 to 20 26 era correct I mean he's just plays the most perfect

SPEAKER_77: doesn't non-pulsed is that the word non-pulsed non-plussed confident you know it's not like the billionaire swagger of Robert Downey Jr. where he's cracking he's just kind of like a weathered I've seen it all etc and then this guy Pierre yeah he plays like

Chamath Palihapitiya: a cocky manipulative fearless

SPEAKER_26: possible lantern replacement really well as well and then there's another guy who plays Sinestro yeah

SPEAKER_58: I don't actually know that actor who's playing let me look up his name he's like a new face to me and he pull

SPEAKER_62: up the Sinestro

SPEAKER_301: from this he is killing it that the Sinestro guy has a edge to

SPEAKER_03: Ulrich Thompson is his name okay so they

SPEAKER_07: debut Sinestro here if you just click on the first image in like a prison cell and he's left

SPEAKER_04: the lantern core to become part of the there's other rings and other ring colors he's in the

SPEAKER_02: here instead of will

SPEAKER_26: yes and he was previously Hal Jordan's I guess mentor slash yeah so he plays in prison a and I think they must have been inspired by Silence of the Lamb where he is in prison doing like a back and forth with Hal Jordan a Green Lantern who is former

SPEAKER_77: mentor there's the image of them like in prison there and it's kind of like the Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal Lecter are having a dialogue and they kind of need each other and they're pumping people each other for information and then eventually it's obvious you're going to get out of that cell and all hell's going to break loose slow burn I love the mood and aesthetic of the show aesthetics matter right and tone matters and this has none of the woke BS that they were trying to force feed down our throats with the Star Wars stuff it's just these guys are

SPEAKER_121: detectives they're badasses it's just straight detective slash superhero badassery

SPEAKER_00: they've they've got they've got a dynamic so much so much so much of the show is about this relationship between Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart and they did a really good job of you know like it's sort of the guardians

SPEAKER_44: I also think Laura Linney who's playing one of the guardians who takes human form and comes to earth she's

SPEAKER_00: amazing in this and yeah she's amazing in everything Laura Linney is fantastic but the guardians are sort of playing them against one another like they're bringing Jon in and they're telling him you're the next Greenlander just get the ring off of Hal Jordan say the lines and it's yours and it's created this weird tension it's like it's doing the buddy cop thing where they're cracking this case together but there's this weird tension that the guardians are creating with them and it

SPEAKER_317: was

SPEAKER_00: justified or

SPEAKER_318: something what was he in I believe Garrett Dillahunt

SPEAKER_156: is from he was in justified let me look that up he

SPEAKER_109: plays like a really good cowboy type actor yeah makes

Chamath Palihapitiya: gives me hope for the DC universe although this came after the guy

SPEAKER_26: from guardians of the galaxy took over he still approved it this isn't James Gunn's project but he allowed it

SPEAKER_00: Damon Lindelof is really the mind behind this show he's got some co-creators but he also did Watchmen another fantastic

SPEAKER_21: HBO series based on a DC I

SPEAKER_03: think there's something about

SPEAKER_07: what James Gunn is doing where he's allowing the Batman series with Robert Patterson this one and then doing his

SPEAKER_26: own that it's kind of working maybe to have a little diversity and not one core

SPEAKER_02: you know timeline that's so true of just DC comics

SPEAKER_00: as a company like Marvel there's sort of a Marvel style everything is kind of in that Stan Lee Jack Kirby sort of mindset and it works really well as a shared universe DC has always been kind of

SPEAKER_02: I'm okay with it I'm okay with there being like two different Batman shows

SPEAKER_07: or whatever you know

SPEAKER_21: the Harley Quinn animated show is also a lot of fun by the way

SPEAKER_13: what else you got on off duty you got an off duty for us I

SPEAKER_00: with he's got a very rich sort of Elon Musk friend who runs a tech company he's got a chemist friend and together they develop a box that can basically puts a human being inside the box into a quantum state so that they can move between universes like there's a multiverse and if you go into the box and you take the right drug at the right moment you just see this huge hallway full of doors and any door opens into another parallel universe to your own so what the whole story begins he is kidnapped by a double of his from another universe that created this box because that guy wants to take over his life like that guy blew it with his college girlfriend and now he's lonely and miserable and he finds another universe is Joel Edgerton who's married to that girl who's Jennifer Connelly now and so he kidnaps that Joel Edgerton deposits him back in his universe and takes over the guy's life in his universe and now the original Joel Edgerton has to like get in the box and find his way back to so Freaky Friday

SPEAKER_67: it's like a version of Freaky Friday except it's versions of yourself cloned and right and it becomes this sort of

SPEAKER_00: between universes war between all the different Joel Edgertons but then it gets even more complicated other people start going into the box themselves and so they're creating multiples of themselves that are going between universes and fan it is it is great and it really plays around with that multiverse premise in a way that like the Marvel stuff they're just kind of doing it in a more cartoony way this is really thinking deeply about like what would happen if a person from one reality went into and so that is sort of what happens like he ends up having to live in this world with a bunch of Joel Edgerton clones but it's more playing around with the multiverse quantum state aspect

SPEAKER_21: of it it's multiplicity where he creates I've never actually seen multiplicity I just know of it it's I mean Michael Keaton it's really stretching

SPEAKER_00: Michael Keaton's comic chops because he's simultaneously playing like four or five diversions and the bit in multiplicity is the more copies you make of a person they get dumber over time like if you post groundhog day I want to say this was like his next movie so there was a lot

SPEAKER_04: biography there's a biography of him and I'm not sure who wrote

SPEAKER_09: it absolutely fantastic autobiography you pull it up on the screen to listen to and it really yeah I guess it was a New York Times bestseller really just goes into his life I didn't

SPEAKER_238: know that he had gone

SPEAKER_77: yeah and just his entire life of just and then Mork and Mindy and that didn't work out and his struggles there but I grew up on Mork and Mindy and had seen Garp

SPEAKER_04: sure and then I had this memory of meeting him

SPEAKER_339: when

SPEAKER_04: I saw his sons I believe it Zach who follows me and I follow him and and was just like hey just finished his biography it's a good book and

SPEAKER_26: I said you know I remember meeting your father in the early 2000s at E3 there was some sort of video game that he did a presentation of and then I looked for it and I found the video of the Robin Williams this autobiography is great so there was this game Sphere and it was by a very guy

SPEAKER_210: oh Spore S-P-O-R-E I remember Spore

SPEAKER_58: Spore was Sid Meier right the civilization guy Sid Meier yes

SPEAKER_301: and so I was at E3 so Spore the idea was you created life

SPEAKER_00: like you created a new life form and then it was this virtual world and you'd sort of send your creation out into the world and see how it flourished it was like an evolution natural selection themed game

SPEAKER_343: so here is

SPEAKER_00: Robin

SPEAKER_56: Williams all right he's designing his own creature and he just freestyles this and he's hilarious yeah I interviewed

SPEAKER_151: him once you

SPEAKER_67: interviewed Robin Williams yeah the movie What Dreams May Come I was working as the film editor for the

SPEAKER_00: Daily Brew and at UCLA at that point and so he agreed he wanted to do USC and like one other like an LMU reporter around a table and he just went for like 45 minutes non-stop everything's a joke everything's a voice he's doing bits he's playing it to this guy he was relentless like you could barely get a question in because he was just doing like now he's doing the Gandhi voice and

SPEAKER_344: novel that he read I think

SPEAKER_26: and it's definitely based on the novel and he it's actually

SPEAKER_04: a really interesting movie about the afterlife and he and what the biography of Robin Williams and I'm addicted to biographies there it is there's my old blog talking

SPEAKER_347: about Robin there

SPEAKER_04: it is he fell in love with that book it was a passion project for him like

SPEAKER_26: Patch and these other things he did he successful and or do I want to be doing these projects and he actually had a bit of an ego about the guy who played Ace Ventura

SPEAKER_77: coming onto the scene Jim Carrey being the wild bombastic guy who obviously cribbed a little bit of Robin Williams shtick on the margins I'm sure and he's like oh my god this guy so big he's doing the mask he's doing this all this stuff he's the zany bombastic you know changing characters you know physical comedian but Robin wanted to also do things that matter to him and he wanted to do things that were a little bit more expansive and he had a run of just

SPEAKER_26: quite liked I could see where he was going with it it's probably not executed perfectly but he wanted to do these kind of soulful things and then he started to hit some goodwill hunting obviously sure awakenings he got panned by some people and other people loved it it was like very polarizing and that one hurt his feelings too so he was constantly and then he did one where he played like a serial killer but obviously Miss Doubtfire broke out so Miss Doubtfire got him back in the game and then goodwill hunting but if you look at his arc of his career lots of

Chamath Palihapitiya: crazy choices and the other one that was really interesting it goes into the biography is his embracing of the

SPEAKER_26: Aladdin character the genie but then he was also distraught because they kind of used his character without permission and he got in a big battle with Disney over and had a lot of bad

SPEAKER_354: him and like he said I just don't want to do products don't want to do products out just

SPEAKER_58: they had impersonators who could sort of do a Robin Williams voice and they would put the genie in everything if you remember

SPEAKER_00: after Aladdin it was

SPEAKER_77: the guy who was the head of the

SPEAKER_26: person who was the head of Disney gave him a Picasso wow is that true yes they gave him a Picasso or something to kind of bridge the gap and get him back it's

SPEAKER_21: Michael Eisner yeah but Michael and then they're ready to saying Robin received a Picasso painting as an apology that he felt insulted by receiving the Picasso he felt insulted by gifting him the Picasso we made hundreds of millions of profit off those toys instead of paying you fairly here's a Picasso you should be happy we're even doing that that's apparently the Robin yeah

SPEAKER_364: I thought maybe a nice gesture sending a Picasso

SPEAKER_21: I'll take Picasso I guess he's saying I'd rather have the check for the merch than the gift but yeah

SPEAKER_369: oh maybe

SPEAKER_21: it was Katzenberg now I'm

SPEAKER_44: saying maybe it was Jeffrey Katzenberg who was the head of Disney Studios Eisner was the head of the Walt Disney company

SPEAKER_317: I gotta ask I know Jeffrey I gotta ask Katzenberg about that story anyway you should

SPEAKER_48: definitely highly recommend this biography to everybody

SPEAKER_214: and what dreams J.K.M. a great movie polarizing but it

SPEAKER_00: was very ahead of its time with the visual effects like they use computer animation to put him in this sort of like paint world where he's interacting with the

SPEAKER_44: painting inside it looks for 99 you're like this is

SPEAKER_04: right from the legend after the video game the legend of

SPEAKER_07: zelda so he was just another one of these losses you know I just sometimes I just think like

SPEAKER_375: Steve jobs dying too young robin williams dying too young I would just love to have those guys around maybe it's selfish but man they were just those two guys meant a lot to

SPEAKER_376: me the ones that really hit

SPEAKER_151: me were Phil

SPEAKER_44: Hartman and Chris Farley when both of them I think I was in college for both of those and that was really sad

SPEAKER_377: yeah those were rough too

SPEAKER_07: yeah Belushi before that all of those all right listen another amazing twist is in the can we'll see you