SPEAKER_00: hey everybody welcome back to twist march 2nd 2026 ao 39 in the year of our lord the open claw 39 days after we first talked about open claw here on the pod and cackling in the background my old friend a true bestie uh one of the great investors human beings uh entrepreneurs uh commentators podcasters of our uh generation here dave morin how are you doing brother good to be here jason thanks for having me oh it's so great to have you of course my co-host alex is here

SPEAKER_08: it's been it's been a minute it's been a minute uh alex uh is here and he's ready to rock and roll

SPEAKER_09: yep yes sir all right alex with the best podcasting voice oh he's great you missed out dave was giving

SPEAKER_13: me props before the show it was the best day of my life you know some people are gifted with the um with the with the broadcaster voice other ones of us you know not so much so we have to bring

SPEAKER_15: work we make it work with the with the limited resources we have dave i wanted to have you on because you two uh have been claw pilled uh you first and then of course when uh open claw was aqua hired slash we'll get into whatever the transaction was and our friend sam altman bought it sort of um they said big concerns open source project is going to get the plug pulled on it this

SPEAKER_16: and everybody has a moment of panic and then it's announced that you will become the first board member of the open claw foundation and everybody took a deep sigh of relief because putting you in

SPEAKER_17: there was obviously the signal that this is going to be done right and done fairly because that's your

SPEAKER_16: reputation tell us um two questions let's start with how did you get claw upheld and why is this

SPEAKER_18: technology so inspiring that it went to the top of github today even beating react which was another one of those cult-like phenomenons in the open source community yeah late december i was uh in a

SPEAKER_21: i'm in a couple of group chats that go back to like the early 2000s like when you and i met um yeah it's the old web 2 you know just guys that uh are always tinkering around like it funny enough it's like people from the old foo camp days and oh wow yeah there's a old reference yeah and one of them said you know hey has anyone seen this open claw thing it was called clod bot back then and so i gave it a try this was like the late late december early january and within the first 24 hours it was super clear to me that this was different and the future in a way that i hadn't really experienced since maybe the early 2000s like i got genuinely excited about building things with this and it was i think i had sent a tweet at the time i was like this is the first time i felt like i've been living in the future since chat gpt and um uh in my mind i was like this is like iphone this might even be like lamp stack like this is like this is like linux level interesting and so i just started building things with it every single day and uh very quickly you know the one of the first things that i did is i reverse engineered the mural photo frames in my house so that i could update the photos on them because the software doesn't work and i you know in 15 minutes i built a new web interface uh to update my photo frames and they you know it built me this beautiful interface i updated the frames

SPEAKER_17: i got new photos on them i was super happy this alex is one of the great moments that everybody has we should name it when you get claw pilled because this is a sub moment yeah um and i have two moments one is when it actually builds you a piece of software yeah or ask you shall i just build you a piece of software because that would be like i don't know you're in some incredible fine dining restaurant and they just delight you you know in the 11 madison park you know unreasonable hospitality way i'll call this like the unreasonable open claw hospitality where it said to me when i was doing some work on like a bunch of names of people in japan that i wanted to uh do like a little uh networking with and it was like shall i build a crm and i was like you go girl do it and it was like

SPEAKER_16: bink here's your crm and i was like i what insane yeah what insane the second moment i had and i want to know if you had this one then alex i'll give you a chance uh to get in here because it's just such a great guest that it's you and i are going to be battling for uh questions here the second moment i have is when it goes recursive and i was like okay tell me about your soul md file tell me about your

SPEAKER_40: skills and then i had matt van horn on and another old school uh web 2 oh by the way i have a matt van

SPEAKER_41: horn story but keep going absolutely he also has been pilled uh claw pilled so that might have been my

SPEAKER_45: fault yeah oh so you're to blame i see yeah he's all in so um and he's got an interesting new startup

SPEAKER_00: i'll leave it at that he tested here um that you know we all probably have an affinity for it i'll leave it at that little affinity um wink wink nudge nudge you know what i mean no conflict no interest conflict interest all all that stuff but i told my original agent deckard um hey go use this last 30 days skill and in the production room look at thumbnail images on youtube and just every week on saturday learn a scale of the best practices for thumbnail images and look at our thumbnail images and rate them and then tell us how to make them better oh this is a good idea right so it comes back i'm gonna do this for more or less game on you should do it for more or less another amazing podcast uh with four two great couples four great individuals um and then it said oh you know um this vp at mr beast did an interview on this other podcast i'd never heard about and he said on the podcast that they use heat mapping to test 50 thumbnails in google and youtube searches then they take the five best ones and then they test those using the youtube tool then they pick their best one in the in the bake-off and i'm like well that's a little bit too much for me but i'm glad i know that and then it said should i when i hear about do it well yes and i'll build you some software and i'll go rent a human but that recursiveness and then it's like by the way a lot of the things i learned this week i already have and it's other people talking about the original research i found i'm not going to include that because that doesn't make sense to just repeat it and i'm like you go girl yep 100 okay

SPEAKER_18: okay so those are the two moments for me is the recursive and the unreasonable hospitality software

SPEAKER_64: developer well i think the other thing that i really fell in love with immediately was the there were

SPEAKER_21: sort of two things well three the the memory feature right like all of us using uh ai have used chat gbc in the big models right and it has like some memory of you and you can kind of go check it out and there's probably there's some other like voodoo magic they're doing in the background to like make it so you can access your former chats but it's like it's like loose and you never really know whether it's going to work and so the idea that like i'm getting this these memory files on my own computer that i can then use and reuse and do things with and there's like basically a journal every day like that was number one number two the skills feature uh which you know you're seeing skills like you said jason there's skills on cloud code like skills is like this new emerging primitive that's happening but the idea that you could tell the clod bot or the now open claw to build itself a skill and then simply share it with the community using claw hub and then other people immediately start downloading it i did this with a snow report skill right out of the gate of course and built some other ones but this really easy ability to build your own skills and then share them with the community i think is an underrated feature um and then the third thing is this like

SPEAKER_64: crazy idea that uh peter had which is called heartbeat which is he gave the bot a heartbeat and you know

SPEAKER_21: we've all built anybody who's built software builds these cron jobs and you get the there's these things called demons and cron jobs and you can run like demons are sort of running always in the background and cron jobs run like at a certain time and do something the idea that like the machine has a heartbeat and it will do things each time it does this heartbeat is like really thoughtful and interesting and it adds this new layer of kind of being able to to your point like run run recursive things like have it do things like every five minutes every 15 minutes and it it has this alive feeling to it that i think um has uh is really really interesting it feels like it's looking out for

SPEAKER_71: you and wants to help you proactively and that's a new kind of experience for software products

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SPEAKER_82: but first we have to take a short break to talk about something very important which is plod now jason here at launch as part of our executive training we focus on the importance of note taking if you don't write it down it doesn't exist you don't have a checklist you won't get it done and we all move a bit too fast to allow time for forgetfulness and this is why we love the plod

SPEAKER_86: note pen all right i got it from here okay i got it from here this is the first time plod's been on but i've applauded plod before dave you see this thing on the back is that a wallet this it's a wallet

SPEAKER_00: it looks like a wallet but inside the wallet is my plod and what it is is it's a little thin piece

SPEAKER_16: of hardware and you'll see there's a light on it and there's a little button that you can barely see when i hold the button down it starts and stops and it does a little haptic so i hold it and then it starts recording when i go out on the ski mountain i started recording and i have a plot pin i wear which is a different form factor and so when i start my day i record now i'm on this podcast it's recording my side you can't hear your side but i just talk to it all day long and if i'm in a meeting i use it and i put it on the table and it has like a little indicator that it's recording so it's like moving a little strip across then at the end of the day it knows when i say action item it knows when i say tell this person to do this or ask this person about that or remind me about stuff um and so i do production meetings now for the podcast i pop up with my plod i do the production meeting and uh i say here's what i want to talk about the pod these are the four or five topics uh and i'll be talking to two producers or two executives at the firm and then i can just summarize

SPEAKER_17: it and it has a whole gallery of different uh transcripts summaries action items all different

SPEAKER_16: ones being created like the skills and then i can send a link immediately to another team member and they just have it and because it's part of the hardware i don't have to open my phone it's so

SPEAKER_74: not intrusive does it break down who's talking jason yes given time or is it just a blob oh and it

SPEAKER_17: remembers it so if i say alex lon dave for the next conversation it has it and this has made my life

SPEAKER_00: like i'm saving hours a week with this thing send me one not only to send you one i'm going to send you two of each take a memo somebody on my team i want two plot pins and i want two plot pros and i

SPEAKER_94: want a one-year subscription to brett for brett and for dave ah all right thanks to plot check it out

SPEAKER_11: at plaud.ai twist p-l-a-u-d.ai twist use the code twist 10 off uh 100 off for dave but 10 off for

SPEAKER_97: everyone else perfect all right alex you must have a question here sorry to monopolize the first part

SPEAKER_82: of our discussion oh no you're you're fine when it comes to friends i just sit back but but dave the foundation was amazing news as jason said everyone was very excited that there was something in place to ensure that open claw would continue so what i want to know is how early were you guys working on the foundation who else is involved and then of course what your goals are

SPEAKER_21: for in the next three to six months you know from the first conversation like i reached out to peter early january out of pure gratitude just to tell him like thank you for building this um and uh that started a conversation um and this was before anybody i mean there were there were like hundreds of people in the discord uh and you know we now have over a hundred thousand um and we also just passed

SPEAKER_102: linux and react uh yesterday and github stars were the number one open source project in the world

SPEAKER_21: immediately my impulse was to just tell peter like look whatever this turns into i want to be part of helping protect it like it's too important um i think jason like you were saying as soon as you uh become claw pill like you're immediately just like this is so important um have to protect it yeah and having been around the technology business a very long time um and been through several different platforms even uh having been part of building you know the facebook platform back in the day i've seen a lot of what can go right and what can go wrong and so i just immediately told him like let's get started trying to figure out if there's a foundation here um no matter what you decide you know he's been very open about his thinking i mean you can just go on lex or any of the podcasts that he's done and he was very open about his thinking and what he was thinking through and um and so uh that was the idea it was just like let's make sure that we have an open source project here that's a real thing uh that has a real you know 501c3 nonprofit foundation behind it there's a lot of precedent for this um be it you know linux or you know any number of the open source foundations apache mozilla there's a lot of this stuff out there and let's do this right and make sure that both the technical side um peter never loses you know decision making authority over and on the open source side that we set this up with good governance uh let's try to get as many of the big labs involved as possible and try to make it the switzerland of ai because that's really i think the experience that people have once they start using it they're like wow i can use my own mac as an orchestrator to interact with all the different ais however i want and so the foundation should play the same role in the ecosystem and so that's what we're working towards

SPEAKER_82: david we'll get back to the major labs in a second but tell me more about peter maintaining um essentially direction or decision making what is his continuing role and how much authority does he

SPEAKER_21: wield still look it's his project um we're still working out all of the governance um we're like deep in the middle of it right now um but it's peter's project and so i think you can expect that he's going to make the decisions uh especially the technical ones and the the the foundation exists to protect it not to control it try to you know influence its direction um the foundation has to be in the middle of the broader community like you guys and taking input um making sure that the global conversation is heard but at the end of the day peter built this thing and so you know we're just here

SPEAKER_82: to serve on the sponsorship point you do have open ai versell blacksmith and recently announced convex as sponsors of the project um you mentioned getting other ai labs in there anthropic famously got a little bit uh twisty with the uh project originally over some naming rights and so forth but do you expect to get anthropic xai i don't know mistral and maybe even the gemini team to also support yeah let's

SPEAKER_21: hope so um you know we're we've got conversations going with everyone um we'll figure it out as time plays out um and you know we're just excited to see where where it nets out these open source projects

SPEAKER_115: when they get this big uh you get a very large community involved what becomes the dynamics

SPEAKER_16: in terms of just just to explain to the audience because i think it's confusing for people who gets to um or how are all the different changes how does air traffic control work for the different changes at a at scale project like this because there's so many people wanting to contribute obviously skills can be done independent of the of the the core code base but how does that work and is that what the foundation needs to do is like maybe higher air traffic control to to manage it yeah so the way that it works

SPEAKER_21: is that anybody in the world can download the project you can go on github uh you can download a copy of it you can make changes uh you know improve it and then you could submit pull requests or as everybody uh you know you're probably on twitter if you're not familiar with the nomenclature people call them prs and what that means is that you're submitting a change to the open source project and you'd like to uh have it included next time there's a release now when a project gets this big the number of prs goes through the roof um i actually haven't looked today uh you know i think

SPEAKER_12: we're up above 5 000 at any given time listen we all know chat gpt is amazing when you just need to

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SPEAKER_21: for sponsoring this episode i mean it's so many more prs than are possible to um work through there is a group of people called the maintainers um the maintainers of an open source project are usually a much smaller crew you know i don't know different projects of different numbers 20 30 40 50 people um that watch all of the prs coming in they also have their own ideas for what needs to be improved and they prioritize what's most important so the most important thing for the last few weeks has been security uh whenever you have a really large project that a lot of people start working with uh security becomes number one um and so there have been a lot of security uh updates but also you know in this case we're working on ai and so there's a lot of different models being released uh every week there's a lot of new things happening um trying to include more models more integrations stuff that makes sense a lot of requests to integrate this integrate that like i want to have this part of my workflow will you put this in the core project right like all those kinds of things and so the maintainers have to look at all of that and make editorial decisions um as to what will improve the project um and we've really been in improve the project uh you know from a stability security like how it works today uh we have not been working on you know uh as much the uh new features uh right now do the maintainers get paid by

SPEAKER_87: the foundation or are they just like super volunteers that have extra right now privileges right now

SPEAKER_21: they're super volunteers um and uh we ideally would like to you know bring on some of the best the people that are most interested uh those kinds of things and uh yeah get you know once we have the capital and the foundation and these kinds of things um then we we ideally will we'll pay them

SPEAKER_82: for their work to to the extent we can so dave how do we measure the success here because we've been watching the github stars go vertical for for weeks now incredibly impressive i don't mean to diminish that but for the foundation what does success look like in stewarding this project and what's kind of like the north star apart from improving the product handling security issues and interacting with the community like where do you want it to go yeah i think that success looks

SPEAKER_21: like a stable and growing ecosystem right like you could perhaps look at how many projects are there out there both not you know open source that have included open claw um you could look at commercial projects that are built on top of open claw um and that we have a you know a really just stable beautiful growing ecosystem um not unlike linux you know i think most of the early internet was built up was built on linux right most people don't know that but that's that's the truth um and so to the extent that this can be um a huge part of how people uh build things uh going forward i think that's success for us i also think we have to continue research improving things going forward making it better uh you know open claw at the end of the day was a very powerful idea you know the idea that you can give people the power of ai on their own computer this idea of a personal ai that actually does things um takes actions for you i think this is a major part of the future and uh you know we have to just continue

SPEAKER_53: to push towards that frontier is it possible to donate to the foundation yet is there like a donation page yet and then not yet not yet okay yeah we're hoping you know there's a business yeah yeah we're

SPEAKER_21: hoping within the next couple of weeks um as you probably know anybody who's set up all the various types of business entities in the world uh 501c3s are one of the most sophisticated so we're working

SPEAKER_16: through it as fast as we can learning from the comment section asks what hardware does dave morin recommend what's your stack you're in a virtual machine you got a studio what do you think

SPEAKER_21: uh i use a mac mini um i i have several mac minis um and i also use uh virtual machines so uh you know for my uh my venture capital firm uh we use a digital ocean uh virtual machine um that operates in our slack uh and my team there has absolutely loved it um and uh i've also got a bunch of testing right now like alex said earlier versell has been a amazing partner to us at open claw uh guillermo and his team are just world class we love them uh they've got a new uh a new virtual machine environment called sandboxes and so i've been doing a bunch of testing using sandboxes they're not really set up yet for open claw to be super effective you have to keep them alive every five hours and these kinds of things but um doing a bunch of testing there but i think the answer to the question is whatever your use case is you know um i just moved mine dave to a mac studio uh i'm hoping to do that i was gonna see

SPEAKER_46: if there's new chips coming out this week there are i don't think they'll come out this week i think

SPEAKER_17: they're doing that new macbook that's like super entry-level chromebook um i was hoping for an m5 mac studio this week i think they're saying june for that i thought yeah uh which is a bummer but i the reason i got the mac studio is because i wanted to run kimmy 2.5 locally and we have to try this and my uh my replicant is using it right now uh so the last 48 hours i've been on kimmy

SPEAKER_00: couldn't notice a difference really i didn't know we had switched really now that was really weird um really yeah and so here we are folks but i think we're gonna um i think we're gonna hit some

SPEAKER_28: running one or two mac studios just one right now um but this is like a very light instance but i find

SPEAKER_17: running it on a mac i was on a mac mini i find running it on an independent hardware stack much better because when you want to write software or you want to use native things it's so much better so one of the things i'm trying to get it to do is create its own apple photos i'll give you another use case many times i want to use a clip on the program and then i have you know you want to download a clip and i'm like that's a lot of work so i told it hey do me a favor like there's all these like open source projects to rip you know an instagram twitter um youtube youtube video and they all get shut down when they're on the web but the open source projects are still there so and it's like okay yeah i popped that up for you and now i send it a clip and it then puts it in my g drive for me but i was like i want it in my apple photo so then we have a shared photo so that's not working yet it's a little bit janky once i get that up and running then i was like wait a second i don't know if you're like me but do you bookmark stuff on instagram like or tick tock constantly for like

SPEAKER_156: when i'm next time in japan or paris i got to try this do you do are you part of only only twitter

SPEAKER_158: yeah only twitter okay i don't use instagram or tick tock right so interesting uh it's too addictive

SPEAKER_00: smart smart man smart but anyway this is like how i you know like this men's fashion there's like

SPEAKER_162: books i want to read or um you know movies i want to see and i'm constantly bookmarking them and then i gotta remember bookmarks now i send the clip to my open claw over slack and i say fashion uh media uh inspirational docket for like the docket of the podcast yep it rips it then i gave it an instruction dave go uh give me intelligent feedback on whatever i send you and you determine what

SPEAKER_00: intelligence is so i'm like bad fashion choice yeah well and i'm like so if it's fashion tell me like

SPEAKER_17: comparable brands tell me about the history of this piece because i was looking to get my sweater game going educate me on that then for like movies or books tell me about the director tell me about the author tell me the goodreads score tell me the rotten tomatoes score all that stuff so now it's like okay this is not just my bookmarks this is my curator who's understanding what books i want to

SPEAKER_16: read and what fashion i'm interested in what places i want to stop when i'm in japan next yeah jason but

SPEAKER_82: this is kimmy um 2.5 being the intelligence nexus that makes those decisions for you right so it would

SPEAKER_90: have the opinion on your sweater just to be sure i'm tracking this not exactly the opinion what i

SPEAKER_17: wanted to do is just intelligently reflect back to me more information on whatever i send it that was like how i said it got it um and i am going to work on that skill i started doing it this weekend but now that i've got hey just might as well take the whole video transcribe it put it into a notion page and then i'm going to develop a skill which is my curator and so i'm going to create a curator skill

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SPEAKER_16: disappointed that open claw did not become a for profit slash you know open source thing we i'm sure we were both lobbying heavily for that outcome but hey to each founder their own uh and happy for peter

SPEAKER_00: obviously what do you think the opportunity is for investors and open claw because i created open claw

SPEAKER_16: at launch.co and said anybody with an idea and a decent team and a prototype whatever just email us we want to invest i think we've done two so far i just want to invest in like 20 of these companies

SPEAKER_00: incubate like 20 of them yep what do you think what do you think is the opportunity i think that is the

SPEAKER_21: opportunity i think we're at the beginning of an ecosystem um that there's going to be a lot of interesting stuff they'll probably there's already a cambrian explosion of people doing different things um usually you know anyone who's been around uh technology for a long time knows that you know the first wave is always kind of uh the first ideas out the gate are you know simple um there's a lot of people trying the hosting thing and the this that and the other thing um it's usually the second wave where things get really really interesting um and so i guess the opportunity is just to stay in it encourage people to try things uh try building things i'm hearing a lot of college kids actually say like what am i going to do there's going to be no jobs and i keep telling them every entrepreneur i know could not be more excited right now about what's going on they have more tools and more things to build with than they've ever had open claw is one of the best ways to build things and try out your ideas just start building things and uh the goal of having an open source foundation here is to enable a stable ecosystem where entrepreneurs and investors can expect that this project stays around for the long term yes and so you can build things and trust that you can build things and that it's not

SPEAKER_17: going to be ripped out from under you and no rug pulling that's the key and as we've seen a lot of times uh large corporations will be excited about a developer program twitter had a very robust one for some period of time yeah facebook had a very robust one and our pal mark pink is like oh my god this is gonna be the greatest zinger and facebook forever heart heart heart and then you know at some point the platform microsoft as well you know oh we have word perfect and you know uh we've got uh word star yeah build whatever you want on windows and then at some point the platform says you know what there's like 20 really big opportunities on this platform we're taking all of them now apple might be very generous about it and they very slowly will say oh well our notepad will add some features to it but we're not gonna like kill it you know evernote year one they just you know we're gonna keep it very simple so great for them uh but yeah that is the challenge as an entrepreneur isn't it like who can you trust yeah to keep the platform open and free and a non-profit with a leader like you dave

SPEAKER_21: puts the trust level right at the 100 for me yeah i mean i think that's what i hope we're going for here you know there's a lot of aspects of the ai ecosystem where people are trying to make these decisions whether you're an investor and an entrepreneur like can i build this product can i build this idea or is it going to be eaten in a year like i hear that every week at our investment committee table and in talking to other investors like people are just like terrified that the you know the idea that they're working on might be consumed by the big ai models a year from now or even sooner right and so i think that's what one of the positives here of open claw is that you know it's all being built in public uh you can you can build on it and you can expect that it's going to be around and you know uh and and and build whatever you want dave uh intuition partner hugo

SPEAKER_82: and sell him he said that uh he's heard that quote half the current yc batch has already pivoted and it seems that everyone's having the same crisis that you're talking about like what will work in a year what will be alive in three years so what's your mental model for founders to understand what will be accelerated by open claw and agentic ai and what will be utterly subsumed by it and turned

SPEAKER_124: into you know a skill.md file yeah i mean i think that you want to stay at the orchestration layer as

SPEAKER_21: much as you can and you also want to be focusing on areas where you're creating unique data that um you know that is not trained into the models for example like i'm doing a lot of robotics investing right now and one of the i know that's the thing to do du jour but one of the main diligence questions that we're looking at is is this robot creating a distinctly new data set that um that uh only it would know uh and that therefore the company has access to either real world data or digital data that is net new um in society uh and so i think you have to think about these kinds of questions um i think just doing like your standard i don't know vertical co-pilot ai for xyz is getting pretty dangerous um and you know i think you want to focus right now if you're going to do digital work you want to focus on what's the agent that i'm building what's the you know am i building an agent uh for any number of use cases like can i be the best agent for this type of job right like a lot what you're seeing is people building these um you know uh agents to handle different parts of their business as if they were uh employees and so i think there's going to be a lot of innovation around this and uh what happens when you do that you're basically training an agent um on something that you uniquely know right and so uh i think that's that's very exciting um and i guess back to the first thing i said the orchestration layer is very interesting we have this company uh in our portfolio that i've been working with a lot called pulsia um it's p-o-l-s-i-a.com and uh this is a solo entrepreneur um who spent the last year building a agent orchestration system that enables other people to build their own businesses so think shopify uh but for the agentic world um you have an idea you want to start your own small business or even maybe even a big business pulsia will help you think through the idea do research do market research it will start running your ads it will build your website um and every day you come back and it has new tasks for you to do

SPEAKER_179: oh we just had pulsia we just had pulsia on the um on the pod on friday he's great so you invested in

SPEAKER_15: this see if you can um talk to the founder about uh getting a very high profile podcaster who's good

SPEAKER_17: for a tweet once in a while with a big social fall and a couple big podcasts to sneak into the last round i'll see what i can do like a hundy just a quick 100k because i want to be i want to i want to do more deals with you dave so we have an excuse to like just hang so just slip me in for a hundy or if he wants to go plus 10 percent from the last round and open a note i'll put in 250 maybe 100 i just i i was so taken by his idea i think it's genius it's amazing right and he's working at this

SPEAKER_21: orchestration layer right like how do you orchestrate agents i think of it as like if agents are kind of like the orchestra people have to build symphonies and ben's built a beautiful symphony here

SPEAKER_13: right i've been calling it the maestro i've been after that uh you know uh movie that came out like

SPEAKER_156: who's the maestro of all of these agents and did you solve that for yourself like i'm assuming you have multiple agents i know brit's got agents working i'm still working through it you know there's

SPEAKER_21: a lot of different ways to do it but i think we're all kind of thinking through the various

SPEAKER_17: different ways to do this right now i had one i have two concepts one i have my like super replicant that has the keys to the kingdom only i can talk to it and it's pretty cool when you give it access to every gmail at the company every slack at the company and every notion edit the company and every zoom because now when i'm doing executive coaching dave i say to the replicant um hey tell me dave's previous week all the emails he sent based on category sorted by importance every notion that he made every zoom he had and every uh calendar uh entry and what do you think

SPEAKER_16: was accomplished this past week and how should that inform next week and be an executive coach

SPEAKER_17: and go research executive coaching so i don't know if you remember this theory but it was travis's

SPEAKER_16: um which was everybody's private driver like everybody gets a chauffeur so there's this concept take whatever a rich person has private jet give them jet suite their own private driver uber their ski house or their house in hawaii airbnb so it's like you know what's interesting is

SPEAKER_00: executive coaching is something that's like what is an executive coach cost in silicon valley now dave like a good one i don't know that's a good question i think 10k a month is probably the ask

SPEAKER_12: probably five or ten maybe more for the best ones and for the best ones they're probably at 25 and

SPEAKER_189: you know what if you're on the board of a company worth a billion dollars you're like yeah i'll spend

SPEAKER_00: 300 grand a year you know just making my ceo five percent better yeah totally worth it yep so what if

SPEAKER_189: everybody had an executive coach well what does an executive coach do they watch you work so for a ceo that's like not creepy it's like steph curry wants every video of him shooting ever for a rank and file employee they're like oh my god i'm being micro man no you're being macro coached yeah like change

SPEAKER_00: your mindset so i created um this executive coach skill i've been refining and then i just said give people their week in review is this an open class skill i i haven't started making these public skills

SPEAKER_16: yet but i will because i want to send it to me man when i make it a public skill i will send it to you or send it to me privately i'll send it to you privately and then it has a thing where it opens up your

SPEAKER_00: coinbase and it just sends me a satoshi every hour so don't worry about it if you see anything about satoshis being sent don't worry it's all good okay i wanted to ask you a lightning round a couple of news stories i know you got to go yeah alex there's been three big news stories i want dave's opinion dave you have 90 seconds for each one i'm gonna hit you we're gonna hit you with the hard

SPEAKER_87: ones go let's go was anthropic correct to decline to meet the dod's terms as last week ended and uh

SPEAKER_204: maintain his red lines spicy spicy uh i feel like i don't know enough about what's going on you can't

David Friedberg: group chat claim come on dave i didn't read much about this okay here's basically what happened uh anthropic is like i have two red lines number one we're not ready this software's not ready to build

SPEAKER_17: murder bots so please don't use claude to create bots that kill humans and then number two we don't want to be involved in building a surveillance state uh against americans so please don't use our software to spy on americans if you can do those two things we're happy to sell to you but we are not going to give you a license if you do those two things your thoughts on a private enterprise giving terms to the military of how they want their tools to be used and saying if you we don't need

SPEAKER_08: the money so you you can cancel our contract that's what they basically said i guess i just feel i don't

SPEAKER_21: know i tend to use an apple frame on this which is like if i'm selling mac minis to the dod the dod is going to use the mac minis to you know do what they want to do it's a utility right like i was i did see that there's like starlink mini terminals on top of these new drones that we're running right like wow are they like is starlink selling them starlink terminals and then saying like you can't use it for this or that like i don't know i'm not a military expert i don't know like the various different uh you know variables going into what's actually going on these two points seem pretty political and kind of advantageous for marketing to me and interesting take you know anthropic has a pretty consistent past of using the doomer narrative to do marketing and so both of these points feel identical to me you know it's like oh you can't do surveillance of all americans like i highly doubt that the dod asked for that uh and they're technically it's illegal for them to do

SPEAKER_150: it because they're not allowed to spy on americans yeah cia fbi we have like some you know division there okay second story alex tee up a second one lightning round in the last couple days we have

SPEAKER_215: seen open ai announced the new staple runtime environment and also anthropic dropping the auto

SPEAKER_87: memory feature it's clear that the ai labs are getting agentic with it do they actually challenge

SPEAKER_204: open claw or are they too far behind to catch up uh my take is that the open claw is your own personal

SPEAKER_21: ai you run it on your own computer that's a very different thing than running any of the things you just said in the cloud um they're just different things so i i just i just don't i think it's

SPEAKER_87: comparing apples and oranges even if you had the expanded cloud memory feature and you threw in like a computer use agent in there to me you're getting close ish to the same yeah it's it's fine

SPEAKER_21: but again like if you've got a computer in the cloud that somebody else controls like you don't have control over it you know uh to the last question like that could get subpoenaed it could get you know pulled out of it like it's i think people maybe not everyone but i think there's a large amount of people that just like you like having your own macbook and carrying it around in your backpack uh you might want to have your own personal ai agent that sits on your own computer

SPEAKER_123: right um that's the key for me that's the thing is so different things yeah it's so important for

SPEAKER_17: people to start thinking about their data the proprietary nature of it and do you want to and this is there's no dig to sam but we both know sam for a long time he's got sharp out yeah but he's got sharp elbows and he wants to he has to build a trillion dollar company here if there's any revenue opportunity he's going to take it so if you're shipping all your data up there don't be surprised if you wake up one day and he creates you know a legal uh copilot a coding copilot that's his right to do that but it's also your right to say you know what all my venture data all my secrets all my podcasting secrets are on my mac studio and we're never upgrading updating them to the cloud and we

SPEAKER_189: use an open source project that's that's your counterbalance viva la difference last one alex

SPEAKER_82: do you have a last i do in response to anthropic's choice to not work with the dod on its requested terms and open ai saying yes to a very similar set of terms people have been dropping open ai and

SPEAKER_87: sending claude to the top of the ios app store mr dave morin do you think that there's any chance open ai loses the consumer ai crown to the dweebs over at anthropic who previously have been the

SPEAKER_230: enterprise crew all right i think it proves my first answer right which is the marketing worked

SPEAKER_115: yes it's like i'm giving up 200 million in a military contract and i'm gonna get 10 million

SPEAKER_233: more users and i'll go right to number one which is hard okay it's the k it's the kfabe theory of

SPEAKER_46: internet engagement right like you have to be you have to be a face or a heel and whether you get

SPEAKER_204: cheers in the ring or booze they both work can i just say that i i'm shocked at how cynical we are

SPEAKER_82: on this point because i watched the darter interview on cbs i read everything about it and like i still get this vibe of they actually have some moral fibers i think they do like look i think it's fair to give

SPEAKER_204: them credit like they clearly operate out of principle like clearly right like disagree with

SPEAKER_27: i also i also think they are great at marketing yes uh and those two things can be true in related news

SPEAKER_17: i just got opus 4.7 uh i got the early release what yes how i got i got it from uh dario sent it to me directly and it says here that i have been misgendering people and that i now have a misgendering negative score and that i have to work on that and um that will be on 60 minutes this week a woke

SPEAKER_00: opus four points i'm joking where can i invest immediately in 4.7 yes get your pronoun track dave more he's the guy you can listen to him every weekend on an exceptional pod uh with his wife brit it's called more or less because dave morin is on it and the lessons are on it including jessica lesson from the information uh yeah and what a great pod it is i i i enjoy it when somebody's out sick one week surprise the audience and have me come on that i think that'd be hilarious let's do

SPEAKER_246: it just but don't announce it just like i'll come on just like act like whoever's off just act like i'm

SPEAKER_247: now in a relationship with the other person all right sounds good perfect all right brother we'll

SPEAKER_248: see you great k-fabe great k-fabe we have two more uh guests and demos i think and we can keep moving

SPEAKER_90: here because we're 53 minutes into a show it's a lot of show folks it's a lot of show oh look i put my

SPEAKER_162: plot pin on oh very nice this is what i wear when i'm skiing and then you know during the day i have my other one and you can have two different plots working for you anyway now jason i mentioned uh founder

SPEAKER_82: university just a few minutes ago and i want to bring up a founder that is in founder university

SPEAKER_87: this is greg cara of run tools you might be familiar with this product it was called to middles back in the day but now it is all about the world of agents and greg is going to show us how it works spin up a bunch of open claw agents and then put them somewhere jason i don't think you've

SPEAKER_205: ever seen before so please welcome the show it's greg hey everybody thanks for having me on the show

SPEAKER_252: hey jason um hey alex thank you so uh we're run tools ai i'm the cto of run tools ai we are a ai native infrastructure company it's actually kind of crazy how much our thesis aligns with the conversation that's been going on in this podcast we provide workspaces sandboxes workflows agents um interchangeable with open claw tools and code execution okay so this is hosting you're hosting

SPEAKER_254: open claw making a better front end for it am i correct uh absolutely yes hosting open cloud

SPEAKER_252: making a better front end for it but also all the primitives needed uh to kind of complete the picture right um and if you don't want to use open cloud you can build custom agents um or you can use open cloud it doesn't matter so um so everybody's doing hosting how do you stand out

SPEAKER_00: from the thousand other people who are now like oh you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna host open

SPEAKER_16: claw like open claw foundation maybe they'll have a hosting option like wordpress does so how do you

SPEAKER_17: think about that is this like um like a temporary business or how does this become like a sustainable

SPEAKER_252: long-term business basically we started by building uh uh an open club before open clock came out where uh we're software developers so we kind of started with a coding harness and then i started adding all these integrations and i'm like hold on a second and this is around the time that 4.5 came out where tool calling got really reliable and i was like hold on a second this is really cool let us build something with it but we pivoted when open cloud before open smart move because yeah it's like you're

SPEAKER_16: trying to brick by brick build something and then all of a sudden this castle gets built

SPEAKER_259: exactly a million people working on it it's like why would i want to build a car from scratch this is

SPEAKER_252: the dashboard we kind of gamified this intro so uh you know people that are not technical can make

SPEAKER_260: their agents so you can just click continue okay so instead of having to set up your open claw this

SPEAKER_252: walks you through it like a wizard really fast exactly exactly really fast got it done um so this is the dashboard we have um our agent hub this is where you create your agents different agents connect them together select the sandboxes they run in so on and so forth uh our tool hub tools you just install tools here um and we have an sdk so everything is declarative in code so anything you push through your repo also ends up on a dashboard and then these this is our sandboxes page this is the sandbox we just created right here and if you click on it you can get access to its desktop environment real quick

SPEAKER_254: so can your agents that's nice you have the desktop running in the web uh interface great yeah you have

SPEAKER_252: your ssh here if you're a technical user you can do run ssh commands on the left and or you can watch your agent work on this desktop environment and then if we go back to code execution this is the endpoint i talked about so if we click run python returns if we click javascript javascript returns so all you have to do is just curl this you know just you know make a make a call to this api endpoint with the language and the code and you get the result this is for building more secure enterprise agents that don't need to run code on on-prem um and then these are the workspaces like i showed you you can go into all of the folders and see the files your agent created and see what it's doing in there this is what i like to call workflows it's like a natin type tool because nowadays these agents you kind of let them loose right that's the point you want them to do things on their own kind of but sometimes you want deterministic outcomes like you want one agent to read your email you want the create and csv out of it you want the other one to do something else you can drag and drop and create flows here and connect many agents together oh that's kind of yeah yeah and then and then this will also once you deploy this this will also give you an ap uh ai uh an api endpoint and as a skill you can install this to your open class so your open clock can actually use this workflow as a skill this is our virtual office and if i start this um you're gonna see these these agents come in and

SPEAKER_162: have a seat here so you've created with the unreal engine essentially a first person shooter of your office so you can run around like you're playing doom exactly that's going to take a lot of cpu but

SPEAKER_189: that's super fun as a uh sim tool to watch it's like a black mirror episode alex we get to watch people walk around and do their job yes but also maybe completely unnecessary what's the value here alex

SPEAKER_82: well what i what i like about this is it lets you see your agents what they're doing and the reason why i thought this was demoable is that the screens that they have in front of them are actually what their individual screens are doing and so you can literally go up behind your agent and look over their shoulder and see what they're working on and that that to me was like okay cool so this is not just a toy it's a tool and this is exactly like the um the black mirror episode where they're stuck

SPEAKER_17: in this star trek thing and the simulation and the guys like torturing them uh in the black

SPEAKER_252: uss callister yeah that was a great and the cool thing about this is we do truly believe that this is where work is going each organization on our platform will get their own virtual office so all of your agents that are doing work on the dashboard you can come in check them out see what they're doing you can you can go to your little ceo office here um and you can control them from your ceo computer and when they have no work to do they kind of get up and and kind of walk around and talk to each other and share information and also if you don't like vr you and if you have like an ar headset and you have a physical office you can bring your agents into the physical world and have them sit next to you on

David Friedberg: the desk that's actually the big win so this is let me give you some advice as an expert in demoing

SPEAKER_17: you start with what's strongest what strongest is this insanity and the vision of having ar glasses so what this would mean is for our replicants we would look over in our austin office and at the conference table during our management team meeting would be deckard roy press whoever and we would

SPEAKER_16: see them through our headsets which is nuts yeah this is a great vision well done uh and uh yeah this is an interesting vision i give you credit for this good job thank you very much thank you very

SPEAKER_276: much let's drop him off we got one more demo to go yeah thank you greg yes and by the way greg you can

SPEAKER_16: come uh to the launch festival go to launchfestival.com we're selling only 50 tickets i think half of

SPEAKER_162: them are gone already um for people who are not founders thousand bucks each then we give the other 350 tickets to our investor guests who are judging and the speakers and to founders keep the event free you can just buy one of the thousand dollar tickets come to lunch with me both days uh and you will support all those 350 founders coming for free greg gets to come for free i got one of those precious

SPEAKER_189: founder tickets for you so go to launchfestival.com we're doing it on march i can't see somebody help me out 16th through 17th 16th and 17th monday and tuesday march 16th and 17th in two weeks

SPEAKER_162: in san francisco 400 investors founders and a couple of you know folks who support those two previous groups launch fest all right who's next on the program alex i'm really excited about this one

SPEAKER_87: we have george yamin of pickle watch he's building an app that helps track your pickleball swing using your apple watch it's very very cool and he has been playing around with the gentic automation and we have a demo planned for you jason that's really really cool we are going to show a task being done using both open claw on one side and claude chrome plug-in on the other to show their different strengths and weaknesses george welcome to the show jason what if i told you i

SPEAKER_282: could save you thousands on operating costs with your organization what you're looking at here my screen on the left is open claw with chrome sonic 4.5 okay on the right you see claude sonic 4.6 with

SPEAKER_287: the chrome plug-in on chrome got it have you used the claude plug-in at all all

SPEAKER_17: the time so i have yeah yeah yeah i mean i don't use the i don't use codex or any of the

SPEAKER_16: programming tools i've used co-work i have the downloaded app and when you have the downloaded app a lot of times it needs to use um mcp i guess through the claude chrome extension and then it gives instructions to your browser to do things like maybe go into my linkedin and read my email and make

SPEAKER_40: it into a you know a database of my emails or whatever i got a video demo because it's a long

SPEAKER_282: task that i ran and i'm just going to speak through it speedrun yeah on the left what you're seeing and on both these browsers is with pickle watch the apple watch app i track my users live with something

SPEAKER_294: called uh smart look where i can literally see my user screens where they're at at the onboarding and if the onboarding is converting yes or no what i'm doing with this agent is watching user behavior in real time and then updating the paywall based on what's working and what's not in real time ah what

SPEAKER_282: this 10 minute little demo is going to do is it's going to go through my sales what's working it's going to go through my google analytics where are my users coming from how long are they waiting and it's going to literally be watching user screens all right so i gave basically the same prompt to open claw you could see my telegram window here on the right i gave the same prompt to uh the clog plug-in um and i'm going to talk about the strengths and weaknesses so on the right

SPEAKER_294: this one jumped straight into an active session on of my app of someone using it live and it's taking screenshots it's clicking you know it's just going through this one on the left i you know uh it's just like hey i see these this browser i see these windows whatever you know it's getting to

SPEAKER_282: those environment um and let's click through let's speed run open claw is jumping straight into completed sessions active sessions uh claude code uh sorry claude chrome plug-in on the right is

SPEAKER_294: creating events custom and and tracking that way so let's just speed through a little bit uh as you can see on the left open clause quite chatty which is in five minutes open caught amazing opened up my the paywall and it's creating an a b test paywall in real time that it could test and it wow i know

SPEAKER_239: that's crazy so all right just to catch the audience up if you are a founder you will watch

SPEAKER_162: user sessions there's different services you can do and different software you can get to watch the user use your app typically what happens is somebody who's a product manager or somebody in customer support or a founder will watch those videos and they'll look at their google analytics

SPEAKER_189: and find where like oh people don't click the purchase button or the try now button or maybe you want to say try now or purchase and you want to a b test those two calls to action so you set that up well manually you do a test what this is doing is you've got on one side open claw looking at

SPEAKER_162: whatever the software you use for your testing and there's a million different testing frameworks and then on the right you've got uh clauds which is different than open claw clawed is the product from

SPEAKER_189: anthropic and they have a chrome extension that chrome extension is looking at actual users live on the site then telling open claw here's what i learned and then open clause saying let me form a test

SPEAKER_294: based on that or what no they're both they're it's doing what you the ladder that you just said separately and i'm just trying to show the pros and cons and jason got it okay so there's two

SPEAKER_300: different ways to do it and i think open claw wins the test is what you're saying uh it's faster

SPEAKER_282: it's better it's more customizable it's amazing i've been quad filled mind-blowing but jason here's what i really need to hit you with this one on the right cost and alex i corrected the math it's 10 it's an order of magnitude of 10 cheaper than we bought point it's three cents to seven

SPEAKER_294: cents versus on the left it cost me sixteen dollars in it so you use sixteen dollars of api credits to

SPEAKER_82: run the work using open claw it worked it was fast it was good but it was expensive and then the clawed chrome plug-in cost you a couple of pennies uh is that api or is that like your fraction of your

SPEAKER_282: subscription cost it's a fraction of my subscription yeah and uh you know it refreshes a every hour but you don't use your open claw to max out the subscription that's a ton of money so this is uh

SPEAKER_17: just a bit in the weeds alex but a good point um and it's great that you put some dollars on it so this is really a great demo well done um thank you pro max plan is like a hundred bucks a month from anthropic anthropic who probably loses money on this or some users who max it out they lose money on but people who like use it lightly like it's just a chat gpt they probably make a ton of money on those so that's why they banned open claw from using your pro max subscription because that's not what they wanted to do because they know the pro max they know that the open claw users are going to rip through the credits and then that would turn their economics upside down so there's a lot of inside baseball going on here but george what's your story are you an entrepreneur you run a company you work for a big company what do you what which one no uh walk me through uh i'm i'm full-time into

SPEAKER_282: pickle watch uh i found out my wife was pregnant and i got laid off in the same week and my life coach therapist mentor at the time told me stop applying to jobs build something so pickle watch is

SPEAKER_45: your company yes yes and pickle watch is competes with what have you played pickleball yes awesome okay

SPEAKER_282: so this is going to be really easy uh i have the app running here i have a pickleball paddle and when i swing it's going to color my watch green yellow red depending on how that swing quality was got it

David Friedberg: okay so pickle watch is a an app yes pickle watch is an app to make you better at pickleball yes and there

SPEAKER_15: is a there is one of these called carve for skiers alex which goes onto your boot and it does the same

SPEAKER_17: thing on a very refined so you actually have a consumer app and you just use this to figure out

SPEAKER_150: how to make your consumer app better now i got it okay perfect yes traction swings speed and it gives

SPEAKER_282: you real-time feedback uh after this is the simulator you can keep score uh in real time as you're playing

SPEAKER_294: it's going to give you feedback custom to your game and how you're playing all right so pickle watch

SPEAKER_16: there you go i'm looking at it right now well done and so can you make enough money here to support your

SPEAKER_330: family or no um we're getting there we're having a slow grow but the potential's there you know this

SPEAKER_250: is it pickle watch track pickleball is this i got the right one yes that's it yep wow it's good looking out um you got some good ratings 44 ratings and you charge 100 bucks a year for this thing uh no 40 uh

SPEAKER_282: 45 a year two dollars a week and then 80 a year it's gonna go up if anyone's curious pretty soon so

SPEAKER_333: you can get it out of this now but it's free to use free to try it but that's not we're gonna hard pay all this pretty soon because it's growing yeah george i'm just curious about how many people

SPEAKER_82: you'd have to hire to replace the agents you're currently using because i know you're building this by yourself and i know you also worked a lot to get ready for us today so like you know if you had to

SPEAKER_98: hire people to replace your little your little friends uh how many would it take definitely like

SPEAKER_282: probably one or two marketing people like that paywall thing i showed you with the a b testing i was

SPEAKER_294: dreading doing that guys for like three four months and i did it in one night with one prompt and it blew my mind i was like crazy oh my gosh like so so powerful awesome hey listen great job george

SPEAKER_17: i think um you know sometimes you build something you're passionate about which is great obviously your pickle watch is great but you may stumble onto something so i always tell founders keep your peripheral vision open what you may have stumbled on is that there might be a bigger opportunity for you in doing watch and app experiments refinement and making a tool for people who build that so you might have like an even better concept that you could uh pivot to because those people might pay 500 a year and you might be able to get a thousand of them and you get a thousand people you're paying you 500 a year a solo entrepreneur you make 500 grand and then you said you got a wife and kids yeah yes and then they might be like oh okay yeah don't get a job because this may gonna pay you four times as much so just a piece of advice from uh from a husband and an entrepreneur great job you're invited to join us march 16th the 17th join us at launchfestival.com

SPEAKER_143: so you george get to come to launchfestival.com thank you jason jason before we before we let you

SPEAKER_342: go i want to put you to the same test we gave dave it's only fair to ask you the same question so

SPEAKER_87: when it comes to the anthropic dod department of war sorry situation uh where do you come down on private companies and their rights versus the government and its needs yeah you know this is

SPEAKER_17: america and we have a long tradition of people getting to be pacifists if they want they can literally for religious reasons not join the military during a draft and not be deserters i guess um and so you know if the people at anthropic don't want to participate in the military and it seems like you know the it seems like this administration has like some issues with anthropic so you know there's there's a lot of gamesmanship going on here between those two parties i i liked dave's take that maybe this is being done by anthropic to get press or whatever but i just want to say you know it's not um anybody in america can make the choice if they want to work with the government if i said to with with a very rare exception of like the we're actually in a war and the country's being invaded and then you can take over production like if yes you know you're tesla and you're making cars and all of a sudden the country's being invaded and we have god forbid another pearl harbor or 9 11 and the government said to you hey listen elon we need you to make tanks or we need you to

SPEAKER_16: make submarines or whatever it happens to be you know it's like life or death okay fine yeah makes total sense however you know in the case of like a peacetime situation okay let the company do what it wants to do and i don't think they need to ban them as like some terrible contractor across the whole thing that seemed like an unnecessary escalation do i think it's patriotic for a company to make tools and then not allow the government or the military jism personally i think

SPEAKER_162: that's a little like ungrateful but listen we allow people who are religious or who have like certain philosophies to hate gay people right like i'm catholic we don't allow women to be priests or i grew up catholic i should say i'm christian not catholic but they're allowed to hate gay people not allow them in the church and say it's a sin and they're allowed to uh not let women be priests okay it's sexist it's homophobic but i guess in this country you're allowed to be sexist and homophobic if you say it's for religion you're also allowed to be a peacenik and say i don't want to participate in this and you can also be like i just sell pcs and chips and batteries and if people want to use a battery i i can't tell them what to do with the battery so both of these arguments make

SPEAKER_16: sense to me and i think we just need to settle this down and if somebody's building a war os like a war

SPEAKER_17: based language model what a great opportunity just you know build a language model explicitly for the military and that actually seems like an incredible opportunity for somebody where is the anthropic or open ai or grok or gemini specifically for the military that sounds like a great thing to do if murder bots are not ready it would be a lot better for society if instead of sending humans into combat we sent robots into combat and they took care of bad guys and by the way with a bomb what do we do alex do we send humans to defuse a bomb anymore like the hurt locker or do we send a robot i believe

SPEAKER_87: we have many robots for this task now precisely can i throw in just two two cents before we wrap here yeah

SPEAKER_82: anthropic has been pretty clear that they are super content to work with the dod have are they're working really hard to make sure this transition off of anthropic onto i guess open ai technology is smooth so i think that when we discuss patriotism it's important to to not conflate it directly with just what sec def wants but instead what what makes sense for the nation as a whole because i i and they're almost taking a lot of stick lately and i don't think it's entirely earned i think there's a lot of posturing to your point and i don't want us as a community to say hey you don't get to have moral stances simply because the dod or dow says so so i give them a little more credit than the average twitter poster um all right lon has a question here we go go ahead lon you can you can

SPEAKER_350: break in lon and ask so jason would you personally fund a startup that said they were training in llm to power domestic surveillance and autonomous killing machines i know the answer to this well

SPEAKER_17: domestic surveillance definitely not um i don't think that that's a great idea i think we have to really think about new laws and regulations because ai makes domestic surveillance a lot different than

SPEAKER_115: just i happen to have a camera in my 7-eleven in case i get robbed like now you can have a camera

SPEAKER_17: that tracks across all the ring cameras you know a lost dog completely noble i think that was a great product but you could also have a ring camera that surveils people and knows their entire pattern and that's wrong now the cameras i have for my different uh properties on my properties i have cameras from unify um that record license plates record facial recognition it just comes like that out of the box but that's for my property do i want that on every lamppost everywhere no why because it's going to be abused so we need to have some common sense thoughtful legislation about that so i wouldn't want to be involved in that if you explicitly said we're going to track everybody domestically no i wouldn't want to invest them for murder killing machines yes now for murder bots i think there's an an important discussion to be had of if crazy dictator kim jong-un decides to send 10 000 troops from north korea into south korea south korea should have autonomous robots that

SPEAKER_189: could counter them and that yes if fired upon would neutralize would i back a company doing that that was run by very thoughtful people that you know had a philosophy about it yeah i would just you know

SPEAKER_00: it's not exactly in my interest it's not in my my um kill zone if you will but i do think that that's better and what i would like to actually see and this is what i would love to back is non-lethals i've always thought non-lethals was a really great investment category non-lethals include stun guns right there's there's nets and webbing there's foams and so i did do a deep dive on that a decade ago when there was a bunch of police killings and i said why don't we use these foams and stuff like that pull up um foams that uh on youtube there's a foam you can spray on riders or an emotionally

SPEAKER_162: disturbed person or a person with a knife or a shooter now if it's a school shooter whatever i don't

SPEAKER_00: care take them out but if you have an emotionally disturbed person with a knife who's distraught or i don't know they lost all their money investing in micro strategy and they're destitute alex you know what i'm saying lon there's a foam that you spray on people that immobilizes it's an immobilization foam this looks like something science fiction but they immobilize this guy with

SPEAKER_17: a foam you spray the foam on them they can't get up they can't reach their gun so and it's sticky and it's not lethal i think this could be like an incredible so that this falls under the category of non-lethals what i would like to invest in if somebody has an idea for this i would like to do a military tech investment i'm very you know pro military startups i've got some favorites in fact and i'm very fond of the executives who run these companies so i would like to look for non-lethal um murder bots so non-lethal bots is what i would invest in to uh just put it plainly all right there's been another amazing episode of twist march 2nd 2026 in the can as my friend leo laporte would say sundays watch this week in tech he's alex i'm jason x.com alex and x.com jason we'll see you on wednesday bye