SPEAKER_00: all right first up today we're going to talk about youtube's new at handle feature why are they doing this are they going to create a community are they going to go straight up uh and compete against twitter i think so and then we'll talk about tick tock and facebook letting some ads with misinformation in them for political reasons to actually get placed on the site and then a little solo dolo back and forth molly and i had busy schedules so i am going to talk solo about open ai reportedly raising more money from microsoft and then molly goes on the solo dolo uh to talk about snap stock being down 30 after another disappointing earnings report and that

SPEAKER_01: be real the surging social network uh has raised a 60 million dollar series b at around 600 million and they have about 20 million multi-active users i believe so that's pretty pretty uh good valuation

SPEAKER_03: for them and since it's friday it's time for okay boomer with producer rachel it's going to be a

SPEAKER_05: great show so stick with us this week in startups is brought to you by odoo is a fully customizable and fully integrated suite of business apps that lets you build and scale your stack as you build and scale your business your first app is free forever and right now odoo is offering one thousand dollars off your first implementation pack at odoo.com twist that's odoo.com twist trip actions was built to help businesses scale without travel and expenses being a pain point it's the only all-in-one travel corporate card and expense management solution go to tripactions.com twist to sign up for free and get a 500 amazon gift card after making your first travel booking or paying off your first one thousand dollars of liquid spend and open phone as a startup founder a lot of mistakes are easy to roll back but using your personal cell phone number as your company number isn't one of them open phone makes it easy to get business phone numbers for you and your team right on top of your existing devices visit openphone.com slash twist to get 20 off your first six months we knew this was coming because we had some

SPEAKER_00: inside information uh youtube molly this is really cool is going to have handles now what is a handle it just means that jason like i have on twitter or instagram so when you're in the comment field in the comment space you'll be able to at mention somebody so you'll be able to say at mr beast in a comment on the this week in startups channel or at lex friedman or etc etc and i guess the person will get a notification and what i think this means molly um is that you will have a feed that will not only include shorts or videos and i don't have inside information on this part of it but i would think that there'll be you know a youtube.com slash at twist or something and you'll see our page and um but then your feed might include people's videos does that make sense molly like um it would become your youtube feed could become feel more like a a hybrid of twitter slash tick tock slash youtube

Jason Calacanis: is i think what they have planned okay see that would actually make sense because i will confess to having uh the immediate reaction upon reading this news of like okay wait they didn't have that and if they're rolling them out as a specific product and a specific launch then there must be some larger goal other than because like everybody has a youtube username right you know this isn't that

SPEAKER_17: that's this is for you're not that this is associated with the channel you have to have a channel to have an at name yeah and i think that'll be the first year of this who knows if like civilians

SPEAKER_00: will get their at handles as well after that i i'm guessing they will but this is for creators

SPEAKER_17: because i remember when i was like hey let's all jump into the comments you were like uh comments on youtube and it was i was like i think it's gotten better and i think it has but you know it's a little

SPEAKER_20: bit of the wild west it's gotten better than it was let me tell you i mean they're not like yeah saying

SPEAKER_00: die calacanis die yeah but you know people can be pretty brutal in there uh like any other communities but the tools are there now to make it a little nicer so i really like this because i want to invest more in the twitter i'm sorry the youtube community and steer it towards that would be great just a note for the youtube youtube creator the youtube product folks and nick producer nick i know this exists the ability to deputize like the five or ten people we have as um noti gang members who are mods i would like them to be able to moderate the comments so if they're in the comments and somebody's spamming or somebody's you know saying something unkind would be my rule everybody on our team has the ability to mod our comments only for chat you can have mods yeah so that's that's the next piece i need to really invest in it but i would like to invest in it because we tried slack we tried discord we have a twitter community but would be much better to have the community on youtube in my

SPEAKER_24: mind it does make me wonder if this is not an opening toward more of a discord like product or a slack

SPEAKER_26: product or a persistent chat that could exist outside of just comments which would actually be awesome i mean it's never i don't know why it has not occurred to me until now that youtube particularly with this creator network is in a place to really kind of just flip on

Jason Calacanis: social network yeah like they you know i mean google there was google plus like it's probably probably the only reason they haven't so far is that they've been tied up in the google ecosystem and it's like prevented some you know overlap or product development but man if they could turn on a persistent chat room like disco they could put they could just finish off discord with persistent chat

SPEAKER_00: you know most that's not attached to a video you're exactly right molly on most people on reddit create discords most people on youtube who get popular create a discord so why not have the discord

SPEAKER_17: inside of reddit and have the discord inside of you know for the modality of of persistent chat as

SPEAKER_00: you're saying persistent chat chat obviously distinctly different than a chat room that pops up with a live video or for you know this would be like for the a channel's persistent chat so how great would it be if we could all be just chatting about the founder university channel or that this week in

SPEAKER_36: startups channel that would be amazing amazing and then because then you don't have to go through

Jason Calacanis: comments on a specific video exactly like you would just have this like home yes yeah it'd be great i'm just going to assume that handles is part one of that and bravo and also the other great thing about this for people is that you just get a nice clean much like you have on twitter or linkedin just

SPEAKER_39: a nice clean url youtube.com startups or at startups or yeah at jason yeah so i think we creators is this

SPEAKER_42: what we actually have at startups oh my god it's maybe maybe youtube.com startups it's already set

SPEAKER_00: up yeah oh is it already oh it's already turned on yeah so we uh we i guess we we we we're we're a a major channel there i guess we have 200 000 subscribers so we we picked at startups so if you go to youtube.com at startups that's us yeah dude so fantastic good handle good handle okay okay yeah

David Friedberg: but yeah if you if you really support your um when you support your early content creators like this

SPEAKER_00: and you do something nice for them like uh getting in their handles early making sure they have a good one it will increase usage that's the right that's huge i think we also have youtube.com

SPEAKER_01: um slash at all in so it's just another way to get to the all in podcast without typing slash channel slash this you know yada yada man i mean people already spent so much time i wonder what the time

Jason Calacanis: spent on youtube is but if this increased it with more you know ability to interact and build community

SPEAKER_00: good move good move yeah i think you'll also be able to search by this from what i understand so you know if you wind up being at mollywood somebody could search youtube for at mollywood and then see your comments on other videos uh you know and i think that's something that's been lacking so what i've wanted to do when i see somebody place an unkind comment on our videos i would love to click

SPEAKER_17: on their handle and see all their activity across the site as should be my right you know when you're on twitter or you're on reddit the handle follows you from subreddit to subreddit or on twitter it follows you from thread to thread the reason that's important molly obviously to you and just for the audience is uh the person can then own their words right and if they own their words across the site if somebody's misbehaving in one subreddit but they're delightful in the other nine you can be

SPEAKER_64: like hey dude what's going on it's always a dude by the way 99 times out of 100 some dude who's

SPEAKER_41: you know brigadooning uh as uh no i detected um brigadooning is my favorite by the way we just it came up on the all in pod 101 it did and now that's what you're calling it yeah the when you

SPEAKER_17: get brigaded we call it preview for people because this week startups will come out before all in 101

SPEAKER_01: but we're calling it brigadooning because sax you know is getting brigadooned so the brigadooning was you know a lot for him so he took the mental health week um he didn't have a vacation pre-release

SPEAKER_72: schedule good on both good on both counts i like brigadooning are you sick and tired of huge sass

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Jason Calacanis: related news social media it should youtube decide to become a full-fledged social network they will probably regret it and maybe society will too i don't really know there's this news today um no they will and they definitely should it's an absolutely great story yeah uh or great move rather great product move in the direction of taking down discord um there was an interesting piece on cnn today uh about how according to the human rights watchdog global witness and cyber security for democracy team they attempted to submit they submitted 20 ads with abjectly fake claims about elections oh no false

SPEAKER_15: information about i gotta hold on 20 ads yep 20 punchline is how many got through exactly i'm gonna guess hold on let me guess here this is to facebook i take it this was tick tock and facebook both

SPEAKER_86: okay and youtube and youtube all right i'm gonna guess that uh close to 100 of them got through

SPEAKER_01: facebook because they don't care i'm gonna say 15 or so got through youtube like two out of three got through youtube and tick tock i don't know the numbers i'm just guessing um tick tock did worse

SPEAKER_66: worse actually tick tock approved 90 of the ads okay 18 okay facebook approved a quote significant number

SPEAKER_90: okay youtube was able to detect and reject every test submission and suspend the channel used to post

SPEAKER_00: them fantastic so what this tells you is if you want to do this you can because there's no difference between the tech teams at these three companies they're they're all the elite of the elite so this is then a matter of intent and tick tock don't care because it's run by the ccp they don't care if there's chaos here in fact they probably prefer it and then facebook are marauding capitalists who have

SPEAKER_08: ignored this forever and zuckerberg i don't believe really cares all that much he cares if it cost them acquisitions like the giphy acquisition i guess he's not gonna be like i think he's arguably

SPEAKER_94: as bad an actor as tick tock i'm not gonna lie i would put zuck with the ccp sure he does not he

Jason Calacanis: does he has demonstrably he demonstrably does not care about the future of america he demonstrate he does not can you know he isn't there is not any universe despite all his talk about china there's

SPEAKER_17: no universe in which this guy is like pro usa well i mean to be clear he learned chinese went to china and begged to put facebook in there knowing that they would use facebook to round up uh every dissident there uh and tortured them he knows that he knows full well yeah the government told him yahoo the history of yahoo in china everybody knows if you go into china and you are a data service this is slightly different than making an iphone there when the iphone's come back to the us you're not going to have a problem but putting aside hardware and amazon basic cables yeah if you actually run a data service there they will tell you like they did yahoo hey we need these five people's accounts

SPEAKER_01: their locations because and you don't need to know why but you know why they're going to a re-education camp to be tortured raped murdered until they confess that you know they are humbly accepting their mistakes for thinking differently than the ccp and zuckerberg actively wanted to embrace that possibility

SPEAKER_24: that tells you everything you need to know about that at a time when google was pulling out of china other companies were leaving over these exact same things exactly yes he ran he ran to it while everybody

SPEAKER_106: was running away from it the end and despite despite reams terabytes of empirical data showing

Jason Calacanis: the damage that this stuff does and by the way the results of this test show you quite clearly that it can be done the fact that youtube detected all of it stopped it and suspended every one of these accounts puts the lie to everything that zuckerberg and frankly sheryl sandberg have said even up to and including in front of congress for like a decade it can be done and they are still not doing it yeah it's pretty astonishing i'm a little surprised that tiktok fared so poorly only because they are trying to have a better like pr camp but right like if you were trying to stay in the united states and not get banned do you think you would have tried harder at like that one thing

SPEAKER_00: i think the ban is coming i think it's just a matter of the people who have big stakes in it clearing their positions from what i understand there is a buyback going on and shareholders who are u.s shareholders are getting a lot of money back with this share buyback which to me this is what

SPEAKER_17: i heard i don't know if it's true but i think that's a prelude to this either the americans getting

SPEAKER_00: their money out or the chinese getting control over it and maybe it not being in the u.s for much longer

SPEAKER_01: um tick tock's parent company bite dance plan to use tick tock to monitor the physical locations of

SPEAKER_00: americans uh something i said they would obviously do and i predicted that they were already doing it well uh you know our friends over at forbes which i think has a new owner uh somebody look that up for me uh they said that they had knowledge of this they got some documents um that uh people at tick tock i don't know if you saw that story but

SPEAKER_01: i did a china-based team at tick tock's parent company by dance plan to use the tick tock app to monitor the personal location of some specific american citizens according to materials reviewed by forbes so as i said on twitter you don't need to have a smoking gun to know that this is too high of

SPEAKER_24: a risk factor to in any way do this yeah the company priced the buyback at us 155 per unit for current staff up from us 142 dollars in an april repurchase yeah thanks new guy thanks new new

SPEAKER_01: producer brian producer brian's awesome yeah producer brian so yeah okay so it is public that this uh buyback because i've been hearing about this by guess so yeah it was april but i've been hearing about this for a year maybe that this was part of the process and then i was talking to somebody an insider at

SPEAKER_00: tick tock i'll just say that you can make your best guess at it was telling me that the entire

SPEAKER_01: company is controlled in china and that the americans have no say uh in anything going on over

SPEAKER_25: there this is somebody inside of tick tock told me this in the past all right i'm so open i'm open

SPEAKER_126: to being convinced as long as you take zuckerberg down with you this is somebody i know across three

SPEAKER_74: or four companies as long as you also just drag facebook kicking and screaming out of the american market i'm fine with it like how about can i get a twofer can i get it i'll tell you this it's like

SPEAKER_03: one a one b like can i get a ban one get one free exactly i mean i mean it's it's i think we're now

SPEAKER_01: getting into the age of accountability i think in the second decade of this people have had enough and uh you know kind of like smoking um or other yeah actually remember vapes you know jewels and stuff

SPEAKER_03: like that like i think you know over time our justice system our society takes time to digest yes

SPEAKER_01: but you know facebook owner meta is going to have to sell giphy now the uk watchdog said hey no bueno you can't buy anything uh lena khan said they can't buy this like de minimis little vr company

SPEAKER_02: so zuckerberg is hitting the wall right nobody wants to buy the shares and uh the giphy deal be a

SPEAKER_74: block so you can you can only there's just did you see this training you can only f around so long before you eventually find out this is a meme correct molly yeah it's a whiteboard meme

SPEAKER_146: the more it's a five second video that is just so illustrative as you can see the more you around

SPEAKER_28: the more you're gonna find tell your starling story real quick then i'm gonna scamper and then you can do this open ai story as a solo and then we'll have like a a little solo jam no i just i

SPEAKER_87: put this we put the starlink up yesterday i started using it oh my god it's wonderful in uh the bay

SPEAKER_90: area it works and so i was very impressed in the little mountain town when i used it in the airbnb

SPEAKER_17: i mean i think it's gonna take a little time for the uplink to be perfect for hd uh but it's it's

David Friedberg: pretty darn close and uh what's great about this is i'm setting up you know because i lose

SPEAKER_17: the town i'm in we seem to lose a power all the time now and we lose power we default lose electricity so i'm gonna i'm building power redundancy and internet redundancy which is a

SPEAKER_00: little bit of a luxury but i don't have the ability to not usually on air seven days a week and so

SPEAKER_01: exactly all right well i'm not seeing you at the uh management off-site that was so fun yeah thanks for that nice dinner it was good time a shout out to our friend tyler florence who's a big fan of the

SPEAKER_00: pod if you are in the bay area your first stop is miller and lux it is if you like a good steak

SPEAKER_164: and maybe some tata seafood dover soul just go to one dinner you're gonna win the whole week and

SPEAKER_07: make it that one it's worth also coming to hawaii he's opening one and he's opening one in aspen so

SPEAKER_83: miller and lux is gonna yeah miller and lux is gonna take the country by storm thanks tyler

SPEAKER_64: great for hosting us take care bye molly all right whether you're a boss or an employee business travel has always been so annoying uh you know you're getting your tickets oh who should get the

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SPEAKER_00: to support startups and grow with them visit tripactions.com twist to sign up for free and you will receive a 500 amazon gift card after making your first business travel booking or paying off your first one thousand dollars of liquid spend to learn more about this fantastic special offer just for this week in startups listeners trip actions.com twist trip actions.com twist all right uh there's some breaking news about open ai this was a non-profit i remember elon had backed and uh sam maltman had gotten involved then they flipped over to a for-profit which i think was a brilliant idea because money and uh it seemed like they could make a lot of money by making this a for-profit i don't know if the non-profit still exists or not but microsoft had invested in open ai in 2019 at a billion dollar valuation they raised that somewhere around a 20 billion dollar valuation two years

SPEAKER_17: later so they literally went up 20x in 24 months or so a billion dollars or so in increase in valuation during that time period according to the information uh sequoia a16z and tiger global you know they have gpt3 the writing tool that a lot of people are building off of and they did dolly

SPEAKER_00: of course dolly and gpt3 i think are going to be commodified there's now other open source projects

SPEAKER_01: that are doing the same thing so we saw that uh the stable diffusion based company um raised that

SPEAKER_00: a hundred a hundred million dollars at a billion dollar valuation and it's i think important to note that i don't believe that these companies have revenue yet i don't know open ai if they're charging

SPEAKER_01: people for these tools exactly or i'm sure they will at some point and it's unclear what the business model will be but there's a business model in there somewhere i've looked at a lot of startups that are built on gpt3 so if you imagine you want to write a poetry startup if you wanted to do one

SPEAKER_09: on copywriting these are all starting to emerge where if you want to write copy for your new sports

SPEAKER_87: beverage the copywriter instead of just starting from nowhere would say hey i want to write something

SPEAKER_17: inspirational for teenagers i want to write something inspirational for women who are moms in japan uh to buy this drink to share the sports drink with their kids when they're all going on runs together and literally the the software just in that very narrow ai sense would be able to write that copy or somebody could say hey make me an illustration for this story and you know when you look at the illustrations in the new york times and you look at a dolly i i'm not i'm not saying this to diminish the great artists who write who make beautiful illustrations for magazines and newspapers but i think the public would look at a dolly too uh maybe with a little bit of polish on it no differently like zero difference at this point with the stable diffusion or a dolly illustration than illustrators at those popular publications now that doesn't mean that those illustrators won't become augmented and use these tools and then come up with something even better but i do think the same way telephone operators went away i think copywriters and uh graphic designers are going to have a different role in society you might have elite copywriters and you might have elite designers but this mid-market or the low-end market for this type of work is going to go away or it's going to be

SPEAKER_00: done by things like canva plus dolly too so you can imagine if canva puts ai in it you'd say hey canva i want to do an invite for my you know eight-year-old's birthday party and i want it to be a star wars theme and uh you say no not classic star wars i want to do clone wars and i want to do animation but i want it to be ashoka based and not you know based on anakin i know i want to include some wookies and you know just make you the invite uh and you didn't have to hire a designer or a party planner to do that you could just come up with a theme yourself and just talk to your software and with what's happened in ai and obviously with speech recognition we're here folks there's going to be a new round apparently for open ai as well and we don't know when that's going to happen in terms of open ai's revenue a person with direct knowledge of open ai's finances implied the company was on track to generate revenue in the low tens of millions of dollars this year so there is some revenue for open ai happening let's just say instead of low tens of millions so we'll just pick a number here low tens means either 10 20 it means 20 or 30 so we'll pick the higher of those two numbers let's say 30.

SPEAKER_01: 30 million 600 times revenue six times 30 is 180 60 is 1.8 billion and 600 would be about 18 billion so yeah if we were to do back of the envelope 600 times revenue for open ai now if they were growing year

SPEAKER_00: over year 100x in revenue i mean maybe they went from three maybe they went from 300 000 to 30 million i

SPEAKER_01: don't know but this valuation does not seem to match performance reality as much as potential and

SPEAKER_00: sometimes that happens in what we do here in silicon valley but you have to wonder what the investors out of 20 billion dollar valuation are thinking in terms of what their return will be could they 2x or 3x from there well you know if we were to look at public market comps you know 60 billion or 80 billion

SPEAKER_01: would be like uber or airbnb ish in terms of revenue congratulations to the team over there on a absolutely absurd valuation and to the people who are investing i hope that you get a two or three x but i mean trees don't grow to the moon 20 billion dollar valuation is what figma just got sold from and

SPEAKER_00: that is the most successful highest growing sas business or one of the highest growing most successful sas businesses of all time there is a cap on returns folks uh you do have to look at reality so this is one of the things in silicon valley that sometimes gets out of sync and this really has nothing to do with open ai necessarily but one of the weird things here is open ai says there's a cap on the return so there's some strange clause they came up with and this is the quote in an effort to prevent investors from driving the company to focus purely on the bottom line open ai said it was capping the return on investment for its early investors to 100 times their capital the capital will be lower for later investors so okay let's pick the people who invested at 10 billion 100 times for people invested at 10 billion uh 10 times 10 billion is 100 so they're saying you can't this company hits a trillion that's the cap of your returns uh there are very few trillion dollar companies in the world so that cap seems to make no logical sense it's almost like you would say that as a marketing technique you know i'm saying that would be like the cynical look at it like oh i'm capping you at 100x like what investor doesn't want to get 100x it's like yeah that's kind of crazy

SPEAKER_194: weird story all right next up molly is going to talk about snapchat and be real so stay tuned

Jason Calacanis: all right i'm just going to solo a little bit of news for us today because there is some wild markets news and jason's off doing all in you know it's a double duty kind of day let's start with some i can't say entirely surprising but still a bit startling news from the world of earnings today tech earnings snaps stock is down 30 percent today after another disappointing earnings report snap of course has had a string of disappointing earnings reports but just as a level set here snap is down about 90 percent over the past 52 weeks 90 90 and again it was down about 30 this morning so let's dig into the reason for today's drop this chart by the way i am just looking at another one of our why charts on snaps quarterly year over year growth and it is absolutely brutal here's what they reported that caused this latest drop revenue was 1.1 billion dollars in the quarter up just six percent year over year six percent year over year growth is the slowest growth that snapchat has had in its entire time as a public company it's still growing but obviously it's basically flat at this point there is this chart if we want to pull that up of snaps year over year revenue growth on a quarterly basis it is not pretty the chart is not yet updated with snaps newest numbers so you'll see 13 but that was actually last quarter's year over year revenue growth so the growth is really slowing that trend line just continuing to go down let's talk about why that year over year revenue growth number matters so much it's because snaps market cap unlike some other companies is completely correlated has traded basically in lockstep with its year over year revenue growth over the past five years or so so we made another chart where you can see snaps market cap in yellow and its quarterly year over year revenue growth in black and again these are almost identical trend lines there this is one of the very few cases where uh investors are saying we have no faith right there's no sort of divergence in price to earnings ratio there's no divergence from reality when it comes to snap whatever its revenue growth is that's where investors follow it so if you see a big increase in revenue growth you can expect the market cap to follow suit and unfortunately vice versa but here's what we want to note because this is also of course taking down the rest of the social media market or at least it was when these earnings first came out inflation and the kind of general market downturn and the thing we've seen where lots of stocks are losing a lot of value as we come out of this sort of covered period those are not the only things impacting snap oh no many many headwinds for this company in a prior earnings report snap noted that apple's app tracking transparency features were a huge problem for its business this is of course the thing that also wiped about 25 billion dollars off the combined market caps of google and facebook and you could imagine that snap didn't have as big a cushion as those two companies these new privacy features make it harder for platforms to target users as accurately as they were before that means digital ads are less effective which means advertisers pay less because they're not as effective which means revenue goes down which means revenue growth goes down and all of these things lead to snap's market cap dropping i want to reiterate 90 percent over the past 52 weeks it's a pretty brutal time for snap and i think a lot of us have been wondering what the future holds for this company whether someone else might come in and buy snap it really has been the little social media engine that could just kind of keep chugging along for a while but it's getting pretty rough here's a few more numbers from those q3 earnings q3 cash and short-term securities total about 4.4 billion dollars so the cash situation is not a disaster q3 net loss was about 360 million dollars though that's a five times larger loss year over year snaps stock-based compensation in q3 was 343 million dollars that actually represents a majority of that net loss so just to be clear that was mostly a compensation issue but q3 free cash flow was only about 18 million dollars that's actually about breakeven on a free cash flow basis which is not terrible i mean these numbers are not a disaster right this is a network that is growing even if it's growing incredibly slowly it's just that investors have no patience for it snap is in the middle of a bit of a turnaround so they said they would cut 20 of staff last month as part of a major restructuring so we're hoping for their sake that it could be a little more profitable toward the middle of next year with just about you know 20 less overhead the company also noted that it was focusing on expanding its revenue growth and has been investing heavily in ar with tools like custom landmarks for house of the dragon snapchat times vogue world in new york and adding lenses to la ram's arena screens and 4k in real time you know snap's been dabbling with this kind of camera strategy for a long time and so maybe that is going to be its differentiator since it does seem like kids are not using it to share pictures and chat with their friends on that note though a thing that kids are using be real we have been so early on the be real train literally as users me and producer rachel and presh um but also i feel like we got here just at the right time in terms of covering this app and in fact the popular photo sharing app be real if you're new here be real of course is the app that gives you a pop-up once a day and tells you to take a picture at exactly that moment a front-facing and a back facing camera photo and has no other features than that for the most part nor does it have an obvious monetization strategy and yet we're all kind of obsessed with it and now it's raised a 60 million dollar series b at a 600 million dollar valuation sources familiar with the deal have stated that yuri milner's dst global will lead the round this is a forex jump in valuation since its last 30 million dollar series a which was led by a16z and excel that was back in june of 2021 it's a french app it's been around since late 2019 but it just hit like sometimes things do it got this kind of mass adoption by gen z and some old folks like me i have some i have some like gen x friends on there um sources say it has been downloaded 53 million times it boasts as many as 20 million daily active users so it's had two and a half times growth since july of 2022 again though be real has yet to generate any revenue that we know of the financial times has reported that they've considered a subscription-based model i guess we could imagine a situation where they could put an ad in here and here and there and and i think we had some clever kind of sponsorship discussions like you could imagine them doing something around an event actually a friend of mine suggested this like if you were all at the same event let's say it was the super bowl or a warriors finals game they could potentially do a sponsored pop-up for just that event and then everybody's be real would be from that same thing although in my experience using the app that means it would almost certainly crash and nobody's photos would upload for like an hour but you know whatever they're on series b now i'm sure they're going to use some of that money to fix it there has been of course uh no statement yet as to how that influx of cash will be allocated but i have to imagine that a little bit of server capacity is going to be included in that spin anyway congratulations to be real it it still is kind of a mystery what makes one thing take off and another thing not take off i mean if we go back to those snap earnings you can think about a time when snap was just that's what everybody was using they were all using snapchat they were all posting there it is worth i think noting how quickly the winds can change for a social app so a 600 million dollar valuation for be real which doesn't currently generate any revenue and could i mean we're already having conversations about gas you know an all new app that does an all new cool thing i feel like if jason were here he would say we might not have made that investment but i personally am excited to

SPEAKER_205: see be real do better good luck to you guys all right everybody on the phone today is open phones founder darina kuya welcome to the program darina thanks jason great to be here now what mistakes do

SPEAKER_75: most founders make with phone numbers in their startups great question first one is they use

SPEAKER_207: their personal phone number for their business and it's an easy mistake to make because you don't necessarily think about it much you know you incorporate your company you put your phone number there's all these forms you fill out it very quickly goes from being your personal number to being the number for the company and when that happens there are all these data aggregators and all kinds of services that take your number and put it everywhere yeah suddenly now there is this uptick in spam text messages it's the worst yeah and people just wonder like how are others getting my number well let me tell you you put it in different places and it kind of snowballed from there so that's the first mistake yeah the second which is initially as a founder you're the sales person you're the only sales sales rep and then you hire a first sales rep and sometimes founders let that person use their personal phone number oh no that number the data everything that happens is just fully belongs to

SPEAKER_217: the sales rep and if that person leaves you lose the entire history with your customers yeah and then

SPEAKER_75: what if that sales executive goes to a competitor exactly yep okay everybody twist listeners can get 20 off any plan for their first six months at open phone just go to open phone dot com slash twist if you got an existing number they'll put it right over for free head to o p e n p h o n e dot com slash twist

SPEAKER_220: today for 20 off okay boomer i understood the assignment all right so thank you guys for

SPEAKER_223: joining me on another segment of okay boomer for those of you who are not watching over on youtube we have two reoccurring guests this week we have jules terpak and danny miranda both of who have you know been on the podcast in content creation space for a bit and i wanted to have you guys back on like i said before i started pressing record i basically don't even have notes for this because this isn't really an interview i've already done interviews with you guys i just want to hear your thoughts on podcast ai recently we saw this podcast come out on a platform called podcast.ai really interesting where joe rogan was interviewing um steep jobs and it didn't sound like super great like obviously like it wasn't perfect but it was still pretty cool and right when i saw that on twitter i immediately had to send it to you guys and i was like you know what i want to hear i want to hear your thoughts like do you guys think that we are going to see ai podcasting anytime soon and i guess before we dive

SPEAKER_227: into that discussion can both of you introduce yourselves uh to the audience like jewels you can go

SPEAKER_229: first yeah maybe we both do our intros and then we get into it but hey everyone i'm jules terpak um i video first content creator mostly on tiktok but i'm also really active on twitter i cover digital culture so basically everything under like human computer interaction stuff and i also have an advice column in the washington post about life online so danny

SPEAKER_232: for sure i'm danny miranda i podcast mainly at the danny miranda podcast just launched the paid newsletter as well which has been a lot of fun but just enjoy covering technology uh creators entrepreneurship and business and i've had a lot of fun doing that over the past two years

SPEAKER_235: awesome and since you guys have like last joined both of you have actually started new projects um

SPEAKER_223: jewels since your first recording you have that wonderful column that you were talking about and danny congratulations on the newsletter so really cool to see you guys uh continue to iterate in the content space so the first question i have the big one is the first thing i twitter dm'd for you guys i think will we see ai podcasts come out and will people be listening to them so obviously they're already starting to come out but will these start to be like a normal thing people listen to in over 10 years or under 10 years big question danny what are your thoughts first i want to

SPEAKER_239: hear from the main podcaster oh well i was going to say ladies first but if you insist um you know it's

SPEAKER_232: funny i think that the all this type of stuff is exponential in nature right now the podcast that we listen to with joe rogan and steve jobs you could tell there were some things that were off about it but it seemed like a conversation you really could listen to what i think is that the technology is going to get so fast so quick so good that we're going to be sitting here in a year from now and being like oh my god i can't believe we heard napoleon talk to trump right like something crazy like that and they're not obviously going to be in the room together but we have if we have recorded audio from the people it's going to be a crazy crazy world and also another thing is there are presidents that have radio shows i think all this is going to happen very soon maybe in like three

SPEAKER_247: years is my prediction okay whoa three years so you're bullish on this tools um you post a lot

SPEAKER_223: about ai so i'm also interested in hearing your thoughts on you've been covering ai for actually a long time now now that i think about it because some of the first content that i saw of yours which is probably about a year ago covered the ai space um so what about you over under 10 years

SPEAKER_229: i don't know because there's with everything ai even like what's kind of more not nothing's fully mainstream yet but like within the entertainment realm things that are more so utilizing ai it doesn't seem that people are really indulging in a casual way yet it's more so like you are being utilized as a tool so with this specifically what i found most interesting for example i partner with descript so overdub is their feature and this whole thing about like utilizing ai voices isn't new to me like because descript has that you can have an overdub of your voice that's ai generated and if you forget to say a few sentences or whatever you can just type it out and have your voice say that and of course there's consent there as well what's interesting here is more so this new because we're entering just a new realm of media and entertainment and the way to capture people's attention is just different and a lot of people aren't accustomed to this new way of media and entertainment so what's interesting about podcast.ai is that you can just feed this system supposedly that's what they're saying a topic and choose the voices and they just go off on that topic it's not like descript where people are writing in exactly what they want the ai voice to say it's like they're generating information from the internet and like data from the internet compacting that into a storyline and also on top of that the ai voices which is interesting the way

SPEAKER_251: that like you know i think there's such a disconnect today between like the education system and how kids consume content online versus how they consume content in school because at the end of the day like the textbook is content that's like information you're consuming and so if there are more compelling ways that ai can help kids learn in the ways that they like like oh they like listening to joe rogan they like his voice whatever they could just like use like textbook information um with him like talking if that's how like they are most compelled to learn information then like do that but so like pros right now to me the three that stand out are like yeah uh information being compelling in the new way that media is evolving like efficiency and output of people um if like someone's a better writer or if like i'm like on a plane one day and i have an idea for a podcast i can just type it out and have these voices do so it's just like great for content creators but then the cons come like consent um profiting off of information content and likeliness you know that like isn't yours uh just like post true society easy manipulation and then like purpose and grief because like steve jobs is of course deceased and it is a little wishy-washy there if this is like

SPEAKER_223: ethical to be doing so yeah is it respectful yeah i love that descript feature i think it's really interesting again i saw that when you tweeted it i thought oh my gosh this is so interesting i um when i edit my own podcasts my own things um right now we have wonderful editors at this week at startups but i don't have the bandwidth to do as detailed edits as they do so dscript is a wonderful platform and whenever i miss say something which happens a lot you can go over and instead of like voicing over something you can just use ai to completely do it um i'm kind of surprised podcast ai hasn't already been done just because of gpt3 um and how not how long we've had it we haven't had it that long but we've had it for a while now so i was like okay this is really cool but why hasn't this happened yet so i think that was like my first thought but i never thought about from an education standpoint um and when you brought up education jewels i thought of asap science i think it's what it's called and basically they break down like really difficult science uh topics or almost like hankering where you break down really difficult topics into a way that's easily digestible ai would be so interesting if they could make a topic in the same exact like um like use the exact same terminology that like joe rogan would use not just like the cadence of his voice i think that would be like a really interesting like next step um so excited to see where it comes in the specific sectors yeah it seems like all this

SPEAKER_229: tech stuff like whether it's ar vr ai stuff like it all sounds amazing when it comes to like education and training purposes like almost like utopian when it comes to that stuff um but when it comes to social

SPEAKER_264: aspects that's where it gets oh definitely gray and a little more yeah on the negative side yeah one

SPEAKER_232: thing that the first thing that came to mind was when i heard this podcast was like we need to spend more time recording conversations with people we love because if it's possible that there's a future where we can have conversations with people who aren't there based on recorded footage or recorded audio of them you might want to have a conversation what would my grandpa say about this what would my great grandmother say about this if they're not around anymore yeah it's good to hear like these like

SPEAKER_268: positive thoughts i guess about ai because i think a lot of times when it's talked about in the media

SPEAKER_223: your first thought is to go to scary you're like oh my gosh like this stuff can be used um and you can think of a million and ten different ways where it can use just absolutely horrible um obviously like you said like steve jobs passed away imagine this getting in the wrong hands of you know just right off of that like first thing using this for somebody that has passed away and not in the best sense like you can think of ways that that's not great and now that you said that danny got me thinking of you know when people originally started doing vlogs and things like that especially like the mommy vlogging era people were like okay i'm doing these vlogs making these videos um so i can remember like these days with my kids like it wasn't oh i'm gonna like make profit off of like ads on the internet it was i really enjoyed living in this certain stage of life like a bunch of new york city or la vloggers like i really like living in this city i'm going to document me living in this city i'm going to document my kids because these are important times um i can see podcasting like going to the early stages of vlogging in terms of popularity um and right now the problem with podcasting i think not only is it just really difficult to search um but there's so much podcast content we don't know what to do with it how do you think we can use ai in the future to make to honestly find podcasts i think are interesting and just sort through all of this stuff because i hate opening up my spotify and getting podcasts recommended to me that i have zero interest in like when will that

SPEAKER_229: change and can i how can ai change this yeah well i was just on like my youtube home page the other day and i love listening to podcasts but i'm like my whole youtube home page now is filled with podcasts and like and they're all of value i'm like i want to listen to them but they're all so long i'm like i don't have enough time to listen to them and so like what i try to do on twitter and i like

SPEAKER_251: want ai to be like a bigger help there is like we always talk about how you know content curators are at the forefront right now that's going to continue for a while too but like this decade what's just as

SPEAKER_229: important is content curators and most podcasters have people who pull clips of course i know like danny i've seen like your videos on like twitter people have retweeted or something um of pulling clips but like these content curators who can like pull these clips and add more context to make it like compelling content so that people if they want the option to go and listen to the full podcast that's

SPEAKER_251: fine but reality is like we don't have all the time in the world to listen to every podcast and how can creators and curators benefit from like these clips together i'm in a more like complementary relationship um so it's not like these uh curators benefiting off of these creators content just solely but it's also helping the creators because it's like your content can be memified and it can get more like obviously views and such such that way so like how can ai kind of pull again the most compelling information and that's what really interested me about podcast.ai it's like how like when someone gives the system a topic to talk about how is like the system um deciding which information is valuable enough to be like said in the podcast i'm very interested in the back

SPEAKER_276: yeah and like how um that's vetted yeah like what information is worth making a tiktok over

SPEAKER_223: i also have something to say on that and like making all the um separate content that comes from a podcast that danny i'd love to hear your take on because like jules mentioned you have a awesome way of making a bunch of freaking clips you like your whole newsletter like a bunch of reasons people are looking at is because you talk about yeah i've been able to grow exponentially by pushing out these different forms of content all sourcing from my podcast at what point um do we stop calling these podcasts and we start talking about them in terms of like talk shows or it feels like the reason we had podcasts to start with and the reason they were so compelling is the low production value so we you didn't need a lot you need you didn't need really high production you didn't need a ton of things like you might have needed for youtube video to make a really good podcast whereas now not only do you need more manpower which maybe can be supplemented by ai but it feels like you there's just a lot of other production pieces to it like do you think in that 10 year period we're still going to be calling

SPEAKER_287: these podcasts uh probably i think so um just because that's been how the name of the medium normally

SPEAKER_232: stays meaning like tv shows are still called tv shows even though you could make the argument that they're jimmy fallon on youtube is just a youtube show right but we still call jimmy fallon a tv show what i'm interested in is how ai can help me sort through the different clips that i have right so right now how i create uh probably 10 to 20 maybe even 30 or 40 clips per episode is i manually go into the episode at 2x speed re-listen to everything and try to find the moments that are interesting and compelling to people when will that happen where i could just feed a system that episode and that system will be like all right the best moment is this to this time and it will clip it for me that's got to be the next wave of ai technology and podcasting from my perspective i love that point

SPEAKER_229: because even on youtube now it's like it has the wave of like when people are like what most replayed moments and everything like that it's like yeah clip the ones that are most valuable like specifically um automatically through youtube or whatever um and just send those off easily more easily right now there's so many different apps and everything that you need to do so and like you have to hire other

SPEAKER_268: people and it's just like youtube needs to listen that is such a good idea manually do it from that

SPEAKER_223: so uh if anybody's ever tried to make a youtube video basically you can go and you can see which parts people um went back and listened to or timestamp like they've liked the most if that could be cut already by youtube and made into a separate feed called like whatever clips what that would make

SPEAKER_229: everybody's lifetime types easier oh for sure like such a good idea yeah to danny's points like you want to you want to send it off what's most compelling to your audience and podcasts are great in the way that's like everything's so fast moving today especially on tick tock like there's not a millisecond wasted of information that's like what's more human about podcasts but also it's like

SPEAKER_251: yeah we're still putting time into these platforms and we want to be getting at the utmost value that we can just like and podcasts are typically more valuable than like super short form content so yeah like just pulling out the down time moments like what is most compelling from this podcast let me know so i can move on with my day and like utilize it like what i learned in those in real life as well so we're not just like stuck watching two hour podcast i think i watched a pod i didn't watch it i

SPEAKER_264: was about to the other day it was like five hours i was like no this is inhumane i should not sit here

SPEAKER_251: for five hours and watch a podcast it's like so messed up so yeah and at that point you're like

SPEAKER_295: sitting at somebody's like sleepover party like that that's the length of that conversation like

SPEAKER_223: you don't really that's just like so much content to consume like we really are becoming these like how many people make content versus how many people are consuming it and how much content is being consumed is crazy and it would be nice to make sure that content that is being consumed is at least of value um i don't know personally that it's really difficult for me to see like under 10 years and over 10 years because i do think that ai and podcasting is going to become way more mainstream we're already seeing great platforms like descript which is really affordable i think i pay like 15 a month for it and it has an ai tool like that's nuts in 10 years obviously we're going to be having like things that we're paying for now we're probably going to be free on the internet just like how there's like a million and ten different free photoshop downloads now that work just as great as photoshop and more skeptical on are people going to want to listen to ideas from robots or are they going to want to listen to ideas from people like as humans do we value just the content or do we value the person making the content um and that's just a question that i'd hope it's like they value the

SPEAKER_298: people that are making the content but i don't know that makes me a little a little uneasy well

SPEAKER_287: it's weird right because the people who if we're in the situation of listening to steve jobs and he's

SPEAKER_232: not around anymore he did create the content then it was just a machine that was fed into that and so now we can hear him in a different context but it's it's interesting because it's it's like i think there's going to be a new genre right now we have education podcasts and we have society and culture podcasts i think in three years or five years there'll be a ai generated podcast where you'll you'll be able to hear all these incredible people and anyone really who's recorded audio in that feed in that section

SPEAKER_229: of the podcast app that's my personal prediction okay i like that i also i i just worry about like the delusion it can cause too because like i don't know if you guys have ever experienced this if like your

SPEAKER_251: friend or something did something messed up like you had a dream and like like someone you know did something messed up in your dream and you see the next day and like they actually do this in real life but like i have some animosity towards you because you did something dream um it's like oh no my boyfriend

SPEAKER_295: cheated on me in my dreams and you're pissed off for the next like whatever exactly yeah no it's like

SPEAKER_229: like again just like how things run on the internet the amount of people who don't look into the context of things and you're just going to take it at face value like obviously these conversations have already been had about ai um it's just like weighing the net positive versus negatives

SPEAKER_251: it's hard again i i look at ai is like amazing with education and training with the social element there's it's a lot of mess and i wonder if it's a net negative situation but it's also like we're coming towards this stuff so right now we need to think of like the solutions and like the cultural

SPEAKER_264: barriers that we need to put in place um so that everyone's kind of on the same page and it's not such delusion between all of it it uh it also gets me thinking like even after we saw the anthony

SPEAKER_223: bourdain movie using an ai version of him um people still went and watched it because they have a lot of like admiration for anthony bourdain and honestly when i first listened to it i didn't know it was ai i just clicked into it because um it was a new movie coming out i don't know there's like books everywhere i was like yeah i'll check it out um in fact i'm not sure if it was announced that when i was watching that trailer if we already knew it was ai it might have been right before i did not know like i couldn't tell because i think um i was so engaged in the visuals that i wasn't paying that much attention to the audio obviously with podcasts you're not looking at anything else you're a little bit more engaged so technology wise i could totally see people moving into um moving into this like fairly quickly imagine like if you could hear steve jobs go through and read all those emails he sent these like beautifully scripted emails to himself um like kind of there's one that's really great it's about i believe he's reminding himself to um just show gratitude and it goes along the lines of like i didn't create the clothes on my back other people made these and it just really a really great piece of writing and i'm not sure if he wrote it but i know it was something that showed up in his emails to himself like how cool would that be to have like those almost like affirmations like read to you by steve jobs ai like i think that it is uh really soon and like coming around the corner like there's going to be a youtube channel run by some faceless nameless company that is like steve jobs affirmations and it's those emails you know what i mean like those are those are coming soon those

SPEAKER_312: are 100 oh yeah like probably yeah early 2023 you guys know those reddit threads that are read by

SPEAKER_271: like bots that you can like listen to on youtube oh danny you're not in the nerdy spectrum you need to get deeper deeper into youtube so if you want don't want to read a youtube or a twitter excuse me a thread on reddit there's like bots that read them and i i would like listen to them on walks in like high school and like listen to threads so um maybe like voices like that are going to change

SPEAKER_264: i don't know well aren't those those are crazy popular on tiktoks like there are people i know

SPEAKER_229: who they're becoming yeah yeah their entire for you pages are like these reddit threads that are like

SPEAKER_251: read aloud and that they have like something like a video game going on in the background of course like so much multimedia going on yeah to your point it's just like yeah i think the steve jobs um example you said about something he's written that's like beautiful like kind of seems like a no-brainer but

SPEAKER_265: definitely when it's like you can just put words in their mouth that's when it's weird my prediction

SPEAKER_271: is i think we won't have people reading audible books in a few years i think it's going to be

SPEAKER_223: good enough that we can get ai and then you can choose your reader like we have with platforms like speechify who's a screen reader that um it does sound pretty human but i think we're going to be able to

SPEAKER_271: make it so good that barack obama can read any audio book you want um he i believe barack obama

SPEAKER_223: um i know his wife read her audio book but that would be like sick if you could find like one actor actress you really like or i don't know voice actor and have them in audible i think that's

SPEAKER_271: like a career that could slowly fade away oh for sure i can't believe people would sit there and record

SPEAKER_229: their entire books like reading them out loud yeah i was listening to ryan holiday who does like the

SPEAKER_271: obstacles the way and like some awesome marketing books and he reads like every single one i was like where where's this time coming from like that's awesome but oh my gosh like yo that's nuts

SPEAKER_251: my question for you two is would you sell the rights to your voice to be utilized by other people

SPEAKER_232: oh that's a great question yeah his voice ip i think well rogan's gonna have to answer that

SPEAKER_287: question soon since he was the first one right oh my gosh i didn't think about that he'll he'll probably sue podcast ai or he probably doesn't care to sue them but yeah someone would right it's fascinating it's like what's a voice worth yeah well if a lot of people like that voice it's worth a lot

SPEAKER_251: of money yeah i don't know i feel like i would have to approve like i would want to see the like

SPEAKER_340: scripts that come through and like approve them yeah i don't know how that's like it's just slippery

SPEAKER_223: it's so weird because um there's like this cgi influencer called little michaela that i'm kind

SPEAKER_271: of obsessed with right she's like not real but she looks pretty real and um and obviously she has ip

SPEAKER_223: because she has creators behind her and so i feel like i can think of it from like a little michaela point of view where say they take a bunch of voices just mash them up and be like okay this person of this age would probably sound like this i can totally see them using that as a say like a marketing tactic but like seeing like a cgi person hosting like a documentary about ai um and then them selling like her ip for stuff like that would be really interesting but for my own oh man i feel like

SPEAKER_337: it was either tick i don't think it was siri i think it was like the original tick tock voice utilized like woman they didn't get the right yeah they didn't have the rights to her voice and so she

SPEAKER_229: like i don't know misinformation if she like sued them or something but there was a whole situation where they had to change the voice yeah because of that so who knows guys we'll see it would i i would

SPEAKER_277: need like some crazy money like more than caller daddy was bought for spotify like i would need like

SPEAKER_271: life-changing money because i feel like my voice is kind of attached to at this point at least in my

SPEAKER_223: early career or part of my career like without my voice i would wouldn't be making like money at least a portion of it uh so i don't know if i'd sell it how about you danny everyone's got a price

SPEAKER_287: right you could throw me a billion and you can get the voice all right i'm like huh not less than a billion if i said a million nah you can have my voice for a million well for what for me to say anything for for you just have free reign to use it to say that things that i don't believe six months

SPEAKER_348: yes free reign to eat this question is so spicy well this question is is uh core to like who we

SPEAKER_350: are as human beings right like yeah can somebody literally twist your words exactly yeah and i think

SPEAKER_232: that's some some of the most powerful things we have is our own opinions and our own perspectives

SPEAKER_352: yeah i don't know if i would tell for anything honestly do you guys remember and speak

SPEAKER_271: barack obama i don't know why he's coming up a lot in this episode like sorry if he's listening but um actually no like let me know if you're listening that'd be kind of cool but there's this like video

SPEAKER_223: compilation where he doesn't sing call me maybe but people like cut up a bunch of his voice stuff so like call me maybe i assume he didn't try to like get that off the internet or anything like that but those like voice clippings and things um like it's already so easy uh even without ai to like mess up what somebody's trying to say like you always see in the movies like kids taking like voice recordings from phones and stuff like that to try to make it sound like you know they can do something that they're not supposed to that's definitely coming that's coming so quick

SPEAKER_300: we'll see we'll see well it's fascinating because it's like ai isn't ai

SPEAKER_232: when something becomes so good that it becomes just technology that we use like for example airpods are a a version of ai the alexa device in someone's house is ai like it's all ai but when it becomes so good that it's part of our everyday life we no longer call it ai tick tock algorithm that's just ai so yeah it's interesting how we think of it as like an other ai but like in the future it will probably just be a technology that we often use and is part of our everyday life it's funny you say that we actually

SPEAKER_271: had a guest on this week at startups that um when he was asked about web3 um they were like how do you

SPEAKER_223: feel about web3 i believe it was like in terms of if you would invest in it i think is the conversation that they were having and basically he was like oh web3 like you just have to think of it as like an extension of the internet like web3 is just the internet it's just another part of the internet and it's what's going to do well in this sector is really really hard to figure out just like it's really really hard to figure out um what's going to do well in any new sector so like when the internet as we know today was first coming around there was a bunch of stuff on that platform that didn't kick off and like wasn't great and then i'm sure a bunch of people invested it and now we're having the same issue with web3 where not all of web3 is one giant grift it's just an extension of the internet that we're trying to figure out in a very painful way through trial and error and um i wonder if ai like you said like this is just technology like when are we going to

SPEAKER_271: stop calling it ai and this is just going to be you know another tool in our toolbox yeah just the evolution of it all yeah not like ai like i don't know ai with like a crown on its head it does feel like people are really treating that term um that's something to look up to but thank you guys so much

SPEAKER_223: for coming on this segment it's emergency segment it feels like um we're hot it's kind of nice because you guys already have mics and setups um where can everybody find you guys at jules terpac on tick

SPEAKER_370: tock and twitter cool what about you danny add hey danny miranda on twitter's the best place and

SPEAKER_324: dannymiranda.substack.com amazing for the newsletter ah can't wait can't wait awesome thanks guys i'm

SPEAKER_223: definitely gonna have to have you on again soon when i uh see another update in tech and i'm like oh like when is this gonna have podcasting thanks rachel thanks for having us really appreciate it and then i'm just going to have a look at it a while too listen to it and that it feels really nice to have been great um yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah