SPEAKER_00: Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. It's Thursday. So we're ready to talk about streaming with our guy, Lon Harris. Finally. It was a big week last week. So we actually have many, many there's Lon. We have

SPEAKER_02: many episodes to get through. We also have been literally stockpiling streaming media news

Jason Calacanis: all week long because we were stuck on crypto crap. And so we've been saving all this good

SPEAKER_05: streaming stuff to talk about. So it's going to be a beefcake of a show. All right. Obi-Wan episode five. I am so, so am to talk about it. Star Trek episodes four through six, which I think we can get through pretty quickly. Or maybe four and five will do because I didn't see four and five.

SPEAKER_09: I haven't done all my homework and my homework is watching shows. Unbelievable. I love four and five. Disney has lost their cricket streaming rights in India. Apple has acquired MLS soccer rights. It's going to be a great show. It's a great show. Oh my God. I stepped on one of your ones. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_15: I'm not mad. It's going to be a great show. Stick with us. Coffee hasn't hit.

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SPEAKER_21: All right, everybody.

SPEAKER_23: I am so, so excited because Obi-Wan Kenobi episode five or part five in the special streaming series has dropped directed by Debra Chow, who is absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_24: I have no idea who this person is. She's killing it, though. But she is crushing it. All of the concerns.

SPEAKER_26: She debuted during Mandalorian. She directed some of the memorable early episodes of The Mandalorian. Amazing. Yeah, I did read that.

SPEAKER_27: Also, like Better Call Saul, Mr. Robot, American Gods.

SPEAKER_28: Wow. An old school TV. So, a couple. Great TV shows here and there. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Yeah. This show had a lot of people questioning it because of the slow start and a lot of weird decisions or seemingly weird decisions. And I think this is one of those situations, Lon. I'm not a perfect storyteller here, but I think there is something happening between a movie, a series, and a six-part event that has occurred here where people came into it with the the expectation of a Mandalorian or a Marvel series, you know, whatever, 10, 12 episodes, they didn't expect this level of, um, I think storytelling and maybe it, it threw people because it was a slow start. But as I predicted, uh, I am just going to say, like, my predictions were super spot on. I thought that we would get a Reaver Darth Vader fight. I thought we would get, uh, Clone Wars, uh, flashback.

SPEAKER_34: Um, and, uh, I think it was pretty obvious the Grand Inquisitor wasn't dead.

SPEAKER_35: So putting all that together, uh, I feel really pleased that each episode delivers more. So starting at a slow pace, a slow burn, if you will, and then every episode just giving you more. Like in this episode, they gave us the flashback of Hayden Christian Anderson, uh, Hayden Christian. Sin. Hayden Christensen. Hayden Christensen.

SPEAKER_37: Sorry.

SPEAKER_40: Hans Christian Anderson. Hans Christian Anderson.

SPEAKER_41: Hayden Christensen. Thank you. Uh, which to me was just delightful. And then somehow they figured out how to bad-ass up Darth Vader to an entirely new level.

SPEAKER_43: Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_45: So I don't know where to start, but, uh, there was a stand up and cheer. Lon, do you want to like, give us the big revelations in this one? Sure.

SPEAKER_48: Things that, that were.

SPEAKER_49: Just to what Jason was saying, I do feel like Disney more than any of these other streamers is really, they're, they're, they're creating this new category of show where it is, it is in between a supplemental add on to another series, to some films. It's not maybe a full TV show, but it's not a film. It's this in between thing. I think a lot of the MCU shows kind of feel this way as well. Like they don't have pilots in a traditional sense. They don't have premises like you'd get from another show. And even in something like strange new worlds, the star Trek show we'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_54: It's built like a conventional TV show, there's episodes, there's even like spots where commercial breaks would go if it was airing on TV.

SPEAKER_49: Um, and then Obi-Wan doesn't feel like that. It feels like its own unique kind of animal that is just like Jason, it's kind of rising and falling in its own way. So yeah, this, this week we got, uh, you know, like plot wise, I thought everything that happened storyline wise was really terrific. And it really felt like, uh, almost like a Filoni clone wars kind of script, how it had this, this through line. And we kept flashing back to this, this training duel between Obi-Wan and, and Anakin. I love that they didn't de-age them also. And I just say, letting them just act that scene and not have to be under masks to make, no, I don't think so. Hayden definitely looked like-

SPEAKER_58: Oh, I thought there was a little de-aging going on there. It might have been subtle, but Hayden, you could tell is like, he's just like, you

SPEAKER_49: know, he's a grown man now. So he's like, he's just bulkier. And like, he, he just looked more like his adult self than if you remember. Cause I think I'm not positive exactly when in the timeline, this scene is set. I actually, um, I think it's before clones.

SPEAKER_61: I believe this is supposed to be like just before attack of the clone.

Chamath Palihapitiya: I, I actually look that up. Cause I was like, when did this occur? And I looked it up and the speculation from the fans was this is before the end of attack of the clones. I don't think it's before the start of attack of the clone. Before the start of attack of clones.

SPEAKER_64: Why, because, uh, Anakin has both arms. Exactly. He doesn't have his robot hand and he's got his original lightsaber.

SPEAKER_63: Because he, Count Dougal cuts his arm off. Right.

SPEAKER_67: And he's, I mean, he's still got the Padawan like rat tail. Like this is obviously early, right.

SPEAKER_49: This is early ish in the training, but they're on Coruscant. I think it's the most reasonable to believe this is there on Coruscant before the arrival

SPEAKER_69: of Padme, which kicks off the action of episode two.

SPEAKER_49: Also, did you notice Molly?

SPEAKER_70: So far back, we're talking literal teen Anakin and I like that.

SPEAKER_53: They just let present day Peyton play it just like at young, you know, and, and did you notice

SPEAKER_72: Molly that that arena where they were, um, doing their battle was where the opening scene

SPEAKER_34: with the Padawan learning some, what looked like kata, like some forms, uh, and martial

Chamath Palihapitiya: arts forms is the same place. So I guess that's the training arena, that'd be the Jedi temple, of course.

SPEAKER_75: In the Jedi temple.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. Let me, let me do a little, like, let me do a little plot rundown. Okay. For the people who are just jumping into this cold and they're like, I don't know what

SPEAKER_79: you're talking, they probably watched it, but spoilers.

SPEAKER_81: But I love how that was woven through and actually paid off thematically at the end of the episode. It wasn't really flashbacks to fill in information.

SPEAKER_83: It was like, it didn't feel boring. It was like really well done. So we have these flashbacks that are again, super central to this story, which is like,

Jason Calacanis: who is Anakin becoming? He's fighting with Obi-Wan. He's being super aggressive, which eventually leads to him losing, which, you know, a version of that plays out in the episode as well. Um, but you see, so what, you know, Vader, Reva, and the storm troopers arrived to attack, to attack the base. They lay, Leia's droid breaks the escape drawer. She like saves the day, uh, Obi-Wan negotiates with Reva. And then of course the reveal that a lot of us did expect, which is that indeed she was, uh, one of the children, one of the younglings who saw the other ones get slaughtered at the Jedi temple. She reveals she's been gaining Vader's formal favor this whole time in order to kill him. Uh, in bummer things that happen, we do eventually lose my favorite Tala, which I knew was going to happen, but I'm not going to lie. I still had a little ugly crime moment over that and her droid.

SPEAKER_48: Like, why is it so hard to watch droids die in Star Wars? It's brutal. It's a bull. He sacrifices himself.

SPEAKER_90: It's a, it's a, it's a heartbreaking sequence for sure. So Obi-Wan surrenders where he, she, he just flops over her and just

SPEAKER_94: tries to protect her in her final moments K2SO in, in rogue one, where he also like dies for the mission, sacrifices himself for the mission. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: And then that, like the one in Mandalorian, the one that's like the protector droid. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_94: It's just, uh, yeah, it's assassin droid. Yeah. That thing is amazing.

SPEAKER_97: IG 88. The IG 88 model, yeah.

Jason Calacanis: Uh, Obi-Wan surrenders and gets taken to Reva and convinces her to team up and try to kill Vader. Lea, Lea fixes the doors. Um, the path escapes Vader. This is the moment where I actually like stood up, cheered and rewound. Vader grabs the ship out of the fricking sky with the force.

SPEAKER_101: Amazing. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: Unbelievable. Reva tries to kill Vader after the path gets away, but we'll talk about this fight scene. It was it's, she's just completely outmatched. It turns out the grand inquisitor arrives. And as producer Nick points out, he's super sassy and he takes back his jewelry and then Reva. And then the big, big, big reveal in some ways is Reva left for dead, finds the communicator that Obi-Wan had been using to talk to Bail Organa and discovers that Luke exists is on Tatooine. And then some of the reviewers seem to think that she also realizes that Vader is their father. In this. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_58: Which is a big deal. I'm unclear if she got all of that information out of the communicate, but it certainly seems possible.

SPEAKER_49: And it really sets up a tantalizing final episode because we know Vader can't find out that Luke is on Tatooine.

SPEAKER_60: Like at some point that ruins Star Wars if he figures that out. Right. So they've got to somehow resolve this story with Reva having this information, but it never gets back to, to Vader.

SPEAKER_110: Okay. So sometimes things look like plot holes. Oh, I don't think it's a plot hole. But other times they're just setups, right?

SPEAKER_111: They've got to figure out how to do it. I'm not, obviously they will.

SPEAKER_34: Yeah, no. So that one, I think they'll figure out. That'd be a great episode six, or it could lead into a whole Obi-Wan series part two, which is-

SPEAKER_58: I do feel like we're getting set up for Andor. Like we said, Andor is going to span from Diego Luna's childhood all the way right up to Rogue

SPEAKER_60: One, and it's going to cover the formation of the early rebellion. So a lot of the threads we're setting up here with the path, with Ice Cube's kid who runs the path and is getting all of these Jedi safe and all these force users to safety.

SPEAKER_49: Obviously, I feel like that's coming into play again, and we're going to see those characters interact with the Andor characters.

SPEAKER_58: So maybe not in Obi-Wan series two. Maybe just in the next show that comes out and we're doing a whole rebel alliance, the formation of the rebel alliance timeline.

SPEAKER_34: I like that concept. And I think one of the things they were floating is a trial balloon. And I had talked to Jon Favreau about this.

Chamath Palihapitiya: When I talked to him about Mandalorian is, I said to him, Why don't you just do the Clone Wars live action? And he kind of smiled and he was like, Oh, yeah, that's an interesting idea. Like as if I was the first person to ever say this. Yeah, yeah. But the Clone Wars series has so much material and they've been tapping it like crazy with Ashoka and other things. Mm hmm.

SPEAKER_34: So and they've been hinting at all kinds of other Jedi who are mentioned. So maybe what they're doing is they wanted to see that Anakin. Uh, they wanted to give us the Anakin, uh, Ewan McGregor, young Obi-Wan moment. See if we delighted in it. And then open the window to then just do like a hundred episode series of just the entire Clone Wars.

SPEAKER_118: I think that's, I think that's totally possible.

SPEAKER_54: I think they're, I think they're getting a lot of mileage out of the version of that they're doing right now, which is a bunch of things can happen during that point in the time. Like you don't have to just remake Clone Wars episodes. Yeah. You could do new adventures with the characters we met in Clone Wars. Yes. Because they're all here in this, it's a perfect platform. They all exist. Yeah. The in between time.

SPEAKER_121: And that I think very clearly is what they're doing. Okay, so some other.

SPEAKER_123: Oh, Quinlan Voss is here. Maybe we'll meet them later. And oh, Bo-Katan and all the people in the middle.

SPEAKER_49: Like every show now is sprinkling more details about all of these characters exist. They're all out there in this world. Yeah. Even, even like I said, Jedi Fallen Order, even the video games now they're starting to reference. And this is a large scale. And then Taika Waititi, I don't know if you saw his comments this week where he was talking about he he's doing a film and he's saying he's not interested in these threads. Like, it's not going to be like, oh, it's Chewbacca's brother. Like it's going to be all original stuff. And he's like, I'm the only guy who's allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_26: The tone of it was they're bringing in me and they're letting me color my own little corner of the world. But everybody else has to relate stuff back to the sort of backbone.

SPEAKER_83: I insist on a future episode of this show that you only do in Taika Waititi voice.

SPEAKER_129: That was incredible. I'm not very good. I'm not that great. It's a tough one. I should work on my Kiwi. Yeah, Kiwi stuff.

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SPEAKER_141: So here's a plot hole.

SPEAKER_34: Uh, they show Anakin going to, or, or a potential threat. They show Anakin going, uh, and they're really good at this, uh, symmetry, but, uh, or synchronicity, right? So they, they show the battle of, um, uh, you know, that, that training video, uh, and that training session. And then they're obviously paralleling that with this, you know, game of chess that Obi-Wan is playing, flipping Reva.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Right. And then using the shuttle inside the bigger ship. And the bigger ship is the decoy. Yeah. He knows he's going to pull it down. He had, he had that great line.

SPEAKER_60: He rips the doors off. Where they mirror it at Obi-Wan is like, well, there's other ways to win than fighting, which is, of course, uh, you know, he says that in Star Wars and yeah, it's like a nice

SPEAKER_26: symmetry there. And you don't need to always, yeah.

SPEAKER_54: I like that they figured out because that's how they're, they're setting up a scenario where none of these characters can overpower Darth Vader in a fight. Like you're never going to have a character who's like, I'm going to take you to use

SPEAKER_60: Darth Vader. He's, he's the most powerful force user at this time. So they've got to outwit him. Yeah. They've got to get ahead of him somehow because otherwise you lose.

SPEAKER_149: Well, they have to use his weakness, which is his rage and his desire to win.

SPEAKER_34: So his desire to win is so great. He can pull a ship out of the sky, but after doing that, he's kind of spent and the other ship gets away. Gets away. The backup ship that was in the shuttle.

SPEAKER_153: Gets away from him too quickly.

SPEAKER_58: I actually revert, like the first time I saw that shot, I didn't see the ship in the background, but then if you reverse, they don't cheat. I didn't either and I was like, did they hide one?

SPEAKER_60: I thought they might cheat. They don't cheat. They show, they show you that there are two ships there. You just don't notice it because she, she puts the other one prominently in the

SPEAKER_35: four, they do another mirroring with, um, Reva as a child.

SPEAKER_72: When Anakin comes order 66 to the temple to kill the children, they actually show him slashing children. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty brutal. I don't know if anybody else.

SPEAKER_44: I was surprised. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have this like with the school shootings? Yes. Put the warning card in front of it.

SPEAKER_01: They did put the warning card, but I'm still, but still it was not only was it kind of traumatic to see that it was when Reva was talking about being a part of that and having to and playing dead.

Jason Calacanis: And it was, I was a little surprised that they rolled with that and it was upsetting.

SPEAKER_164: It was, I, I literally, that's exactly where I was going, Molly.

Chamath Palihapitiya: They literally talk about a child hiding under another child during essentially a school massacre. The Jedi temple is a school for these Padawan. Yeah. And this insane, young, maladjusted, uh, rage filled, uh, young person, Anakin kills children. I mean, the parallel is, I mean, it's crazy that that existed in the world. Like George Lucas was not, I don't think George Lucas was thinking of a school shooting when he had Anakin kill the children.

SPEAKER_34: He was just thinking, what's the most savage thing he could do to show he's a dark person, I think. Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya: But there's a moment where Reva is about to, spoiler alert, get killed or, get a lightsaber through her stomach.

SPEAKER_63: And I'm trying to figure out if she was also stabbed when she was a child. Oh yeah. I think that's the implication is that he, we don't see it, but yeah,

SPEAKER_60: I think the implication was that he wounded her when she was a child. She somehow survived. Now he's done it again.

SPEAKER_128: Yeah. Cause you see this kind of flat. It's flashing back. It's a flashback. Yeah.

SPEAKER_173: That's how I, but they don't show it. It was upsetting. Which I understand. You don't want to show a child getting a lightsaber through her stomach.

SPEAKER_60: I will say they, it, this was at least conceptually part of star Wars all along, because Lucas had come up with that idea that the Jedi were wiped out. Like the empire, when they came to power. Killed off all the Jedi. And that's why like Han Solo doesn't even believe Jedi existed because.

SPEAKER_178: Yeah. Oh yeah. He just, I think Jason, Jason just means George Lucas wasn't trying to hearken back to a school shooting. He wasn't thinking about a school shooting, but he was thinking about there was a purge. But you know, there was this urge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_183: Right. It's so.

SPEAKER_34: It's just spooky in the storytelling. Or disturbing that our life has now become talking about children, hiding under other dead children or a young person going out.

SPEAKER_49: On some level I do. I mean, obviously they are, they are aware of this parallel. I don't think they weren't thinking about this at all when they were making the show, but for Disney to even make a show with this as a theme, I mean, you've got to figure these, these real events happen. Regularly. Regularly. And not that you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're never going to come out at a time when this isn't on people's minds anymore.

SPEAKER_189: And it's not an ongoing problem. So. I don't even. Yeah. I'm not even sure it's a critique.

SPEAKER_190: Exactly. It's just sort of an unfortunate. It's so close. To. I have to feel like.

SPEAKER_01: That it was actually like, it was pretty upsetting and maybe they left it in because it's like, look, it really is. It's that horrible.

SPEAKER_192: Like, yes, it's that horrible. I have to feel like the creative team was aware of the. Oh, of course. This must have been. They must have been.

SPEAKER_193: This must have been a huge discussion for the past two weeks. I don't know.

SPEAKER_121: Well, the other, the other dark troubling, but also interesting, uh, parallel here is Stranger Things, which the new Stranger Things season also opens. I don't know. This is the very first scene. So it's not a spoiler.

SPEAKER_70: Yeah. With a bunch of murdered children and 11 sees a room, big room full of, and Stranger Things far,

SPEAKER_60: I will say far more like grizzly and onscreen violent than Star Wars. Star Wars is, you know, they're, they're being killed with lasers and you don't really. Stranger Things, there's blood, there's mangled bodies.

SPEAKER_121: It's very troubling. They also put a warning on it. I almost feel like you would have cut around some of that.

Jason Calacanis: That's why the narrative over Overton window has really. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_54: Well, I mean, that, that is, you, you do start to think about like, why do so many of our big pop culture tentpole entertainments deal with the murder, mass murder of children?

SPEAKER_60: That is weird. Yeah. That keeps.

SPEAKER_201: Well, a little bit America, a little bit America.

SPEAKER_202: It's like on our minds. Yeah.

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Jason Calacanis: Let's can we I do want to ask you guys about Riva, though, and her this this kind of arc of betrayal. That's like almost a double betrayal. So Obi-Wan surrenders, convinces her like we got to team up to fight Vader and then runs back in. And I'm expecting that he is going to stay there and they're going to team up and fight Vader.

SPEAKER_206: And instead, he just prediction last episode. Yeah, right.

Jason Calacanis: But instead, he ditches her. Yeah. To fight Vader alone. It's like this double abandonment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_60: And I was like, Jesus, I love they gave Vader that line like Obi-Wan was smart to use you like this. And it's like, I think that's true. Like that is that Obi-Wan's plan was this will give me cover to escape.

SPEAKER_34: And then but also Darth Vader is framing it in order to make her more dark side, right? Right. That's the worst interpretation. The best interpretation is, hey, we have to save Leia. We have to save all these people. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. We are teaming up on this. You're the distraction. Good luck. All right.

SPEAKER_213: She says, I want to kill like, that's why she's there.

SPEAKER_34: Right.

SPEAKER_214: Uh, I, I do, I, I do have to say her plan, her plan feels a little undercooked.

SPEAKER_54: She's been, if, if, if the idea was, unless you're the grand inquisitor, you don't get an audience with Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_49: And she had to do all this to be in his presence. Then I feel like you could sell it. Like, well, she just had to do all this to get next to him. So she could try to stab him. But we see that she's met him before. She's on that ship with him. And he's like, good job. You're now the grand inquisitor. Like, why not just kill him right then?

SPEAKER_48: Like, what are you waiting for? And then he's not, when she does try to sneak up on him, which. Good luck.

SPEAKER_221: He's not distracted in any way. I mean, yeah. They always already left.

SPEAKER_224: Like when you stab him is when he's trying to hold a ship. It's not a great. In stasis with force. It was just not, it felt like.

SPEAKER_226: Look, I will grant that this was a moment when her emotion might have gotten the best of her.

SPEAKER_01: But it was not, but she's been so strategic and so careful that I felt like she didn't deserve to be trying to sneak up on undistracted full force Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_229: It was great. Yeah. Her, her, their fight is very good. Like I think this comes back to a lot of my thoughts on this episode, which is I liked everything that

SPEAKER_49: happened, but there are, there are some wonky moments in terms of the, the actual, like the, the editing, the blocking, the physical filmmaking. And, and I don't want to lay this on Deborah Chow or the, the, the people who are making the show. I feel like one of two things is going on here.

SPEAKER_67: You know what I mean? When I'm, when I, when I, when I say that Jason, like, like they arrive and then, uh, Reva and all the stormtroopers are there.

SPEAKER_49: There's just this door keeping them, but it takes forever to like walk through the door. And then there's this all way, but you don't know.

SPEAKER_234: She can lightsaber the door. You don't know how long it does feel a little clunky, right?

SPEAKER_63: Almost like a soap opera that's taking place in a finite amount of space. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_49: And then characters are whispering, but other characters who are right behind them can't hear them. And there's all kinds of stuff like this. And I, I feel like it is either, it's one of two things. It's either there's a time or a budget. Crunch. They got to get through this quickly. They've got limited time. Like we just got to like make it good enough.

SPEAKER_60: And then we got to get onto the next setup, or it's a limitation of this real time, virtual production environment that they're using. Like you can only put the camera in certain places. You can only light certain angles because otherwise there's a screen or that's where the virtual

SPEAKER_49: set goes or something, but the guy who shot like this, the cinematographer on the show is the guy who shoots like, like Chan-wook parks movies.

SPEAKER_60: So like the guy who shot old boy in the handmaiden, he knows where to put the camera to get the right setup. So I have to feel like it's some other kind of physical limitation on the day.

SPEAKER_242: Huh? Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_189: It's just my guess. I'm not very good at noticing that stuff, but now I'm going to look back and see.

SPEAKER_245: But like that sequence where I feel like there was a way to shoot Reva sneaking up on Vader that it looks more like she'd have a shot at really taking him out. I agree with Molly. Also she yelled.

SPEAKER_247: It felt like a bad, if she's been, if she was that cunning her whole life from Padawan to

Chamath Palihapitiya: adulthood to do this plot, she should have had a better end game. Like this giant chess match, the end game is like, I'm just going to send my queen right

SPEAKER_72: into the middle of the frame.

SPEAKER_49: It reminds me of Skyfall where Harvey R. Bardem's got this incredibly intricate plan. And then at the end, it's just like, run over to Judi Dench and shoot her. It's like, you need this elaborate plan to kill Judi Dench. She's a hundred and sometimes she goes to lunch in public.

SPEAKER_143: Just follow her. Like, what are you doing? I do like Molly, your concept of he's pulling the ship down. He rips it apart.

SPEAKER_34: The other one takes off. He's super distracted. He tries to grab the second ship. That's when you get him.

SPEAKER_43: Then she takes a swing at him and she actually, it would have been much more satisfying if she had actually hit him in the shoulder. You know, like, and maybe. Landed any kind of a blow. Imagine his helmet gets cracked.

SPEAKER_255: See, I was waiting because you said that I was waiting for that to happen.

SPEAKER_256: Yeah. I thought that might actually happen. And it didn't.

SPEAKER_128: And I was really irritated. I'm like, man, she didn't even land a blow. I really wanted her. I would have liked to have her land a blow.

SPEAKER_01: And it's this sort of double betrayal. It's like, Obi-Wan sort of uses her and dumps her. And then it turns out the Inquisitor was alive all along, which I didn't find that satisfying.

Jason Calacanis: I think because I didn't watch the client, you know, it's sort of like, oh, okay. She was double betrayed. But I think unless you really like have internalized something about the Inquisitors, like it wasn't that satisfying.

SPEAKER_124: Yeah, the fans were complaining because that character is in Rebels, the animated show that takes place after this. Yeah. So. And he's kind of a different way to have this chubby fat head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_49: Well, I mean, it's theoretically possible. They only call him Grand Inquisitor. So it's possible it was a different Grand Inquisitor who just looks like this Grand Inquisitor. It's supposed to be the same. But I see.

SPEAKER_53: It was kind of a giveaway to fans. Like, he's probably not gone for good. He's going to come back.

SPEAKER_01: One of these shows, like, it's, it's very, it's very interesting. Cause like, I like Star Wars a lot. I am not adjacent about it.

Jason Calacanis: Right. And I'm finding this show simultaneously great and a little boring. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I don't know if it's just.

SPEAKER_01: I don't find it boring. I don't know. It might just be like my, like, I mean, last night's episode was really exciting, but I have,

Jason Calacanis: but I also have these moments where I'm just like, okay, like we're plodding along in the story and I know things are going to happen and stuff. And I'm like ready for them to, it's a weird, I'm having a weird response to it. And I don't know if that's just me and my, it might be my relationship to our long shows.

SPEAKER_275: Maybe it is the stuff that lawn's talking about where it's just like, it's not, it doesn't feel

SPEAKER_02: all the way knitted together.

SPEAKER_58: There's a certain staginess to it. I mean, I also think like, just like I was saying before, and this, I mean, if you're watching the,

SPEAKER_49: the Marvel shows, like Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, they're, they're all kind of like this. They don't do the things that we expect TV shows to do that we've internalized. Like, even if you don't know TV screenplay format, you do because you watch TV shows. So when it doesn't line up, you're like, wait, something's wrong. So like a lot of these Disney shows, we expect an inciting incident. Like, well, why is the show's action happening now as opposed to last year or two weeks from now? Like, why is this happening to the character today? Like you could have a show where the setup is that the lead character is broke, but he's always broke.

SPEAKER_60: The show is happening because he's getting evicted from his apartment today or like they have an unhappy relationship, but the show is happening because they break up, you know, like it's

SPEAKER_49: and, and Disney shows kind of sometimes don't have that. And that's just an example. Obi-Wan does, but I'm just saying like all sorts of things that you expect shows to do.

SPEAKER_54: Like in the opening episode, you'd give them like, here's the goal that they're going to be working toward for the whole show. And like, they didn't do that here. Yeah, they don't do that here.

SPEAKER_49: They assume that, well, this is, you're coming in in the middle of this larger story. And so we could just kind of start filling things.

Chamath Palihapitiya: I mean, when did Obi-Wan actually take out his lightsaber, right? It's like, we want to see Obi-Wan and where's, where's Hayden? You know, like he's supposed to be here. Like they cast him. They made a big deal of sending him on the tour. Like we still haven't seen him. We saw that one little flash of him in episode four, where he's in the field.

SPEAKER_190: When is it really showing up? It's a great point too, about TV structure, because one, you are expecting those

Jason Calacanis: kind of action moments and breaks to happen throughout. Like you are sort of mentally calibrated for something that's leading into a commercial break. And then it's also like, it reminds me of the period we went through with fine dining, where it was like, you will sit here for nine hours and you will enjoy all of these little things that I'm going to bring you. And one of these things might be a chocolate hand and you only eat the thing that's in the hand. And if you bite the hand, you'll get yelled at. This happened to me at Atelier Crenn, where it's just like, you brought me food, but you can't eat that food. And it was sort of like, it was indulgent. It was chefs indulging themselves. Yeah. And I sort of feel that way about the Marvel shows and even Obi-Wan, especially where it's like, you got to know all this lore to really enjoy it. Like this is the 15 course Joelle Robuchon of shows at this point. And it's great, but I also just enjoy a taco truck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_34: Yeah. Go down the rabbit hole. I advise you to go down the rabbit hole. Once you start going down the rabbit hole and watching the clone wars and start putting all this fabric together, it becomes even more pleasing, but I don't have to retire. I don't have the ability to watch it without thinking of the entire arc of the Skywalker saga, you know, like it's, and that's what I, that's what makes it pleasing for me. So yeah. And what happens in episode six or how do they wrap this up? Yeah.

SPEAKER_295: I mean, obviously we're going back to TAT everybody, all the main players are going

SPEAKER_49: to be on Tatooine. So Reeve is going there. Obi-Wan's going there. Bail Organa is probably going there.

SPEAKER_60: We heard Jimmy Smith say he was heading there. Okay. Uh, so yeah, I mean, somehow this all ends on Tatooine with a fight to keep Luke.

SPEAKER_54: And we also know that Bonnie Priest, who, uh, plays Aunt Beru in the prequels. Yeah. She is reprising her role. We've seen her, but only through binoculars from a distance so far. She's going to have to have some lines.

SPEAKER_301: They promoted that she was coming back for this.

SPEAKER_302: And uncle Owen has a big position and we haven't heard Luke Skywalker talk.

SPEAKER_197: Right. So I would say talk or do anything. We're going to have to go spend a little bit of time on the Skywalker farm in the end.

SPEAKER_48: But here's the thing. It's going to be some kind of a battle. I hope he and Leia at least have a little interaction. That would be amazing.

SPEAKER_305: Just a little.

SPEAKER_306: That would be random because I think they got to get her home, but you never know. Belle Organa is going there. Maybe he's. Yeah. That's where she's getting picked up.

SPEAKER_124: It doesn't break canon if they don't realize they have a connection. If it's just, he meets a random young girl, he wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_34: It would break canon if Luke Skywalker at that age were to see Obi-Wan or a lightsaber. Right? Right. Yeah. He's got no.

SPEAKER_239: He can't see Obi-Wan. He can't see a lightsaber. He's, he's seven years away from planning to go to the Imperial Academy. Right. Like when we meet Luke Skywalker, he thinks the empire. The empire is great.

SPEAKER_124: And he wants to go be a pilot for them because he's bored of being on the moisture farm.

SPEAKER_60: So he can't get any ideas about wanting to be a Jedi at this point. Right. He really doesn't even know if that stuff's real. Those are just rumors.

SPEAKER_34: So does this mean Reva comes down and Obi-Wan has to fight. And then Reva now has wants revenge on Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan has to kill Reva.

SPEAKER_64: I think it's gotta be something. Or Reva is going to somehow sacrifice herself to keep the secret.

SPEAKER_177: Or Reva's going to tell some other players that we haven't thought about and bring them with her. Who, who knows, but.

SPEAKER_318: Or the Grand Inquisitor could come.

SPEAKER_109: Right. To go collect Reva. Yes. The other brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_49: That's very, that's very possible. Vader can't be on Tatooine or that would kind of break. No, he would sense Luke Skywalker, right? Right. That kind of breaks it. So other than that, I think everything is basically on the table.

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SPEAKER_326: That's 25% off at liquidiv.com with the promo code TWIST. All right. So we move on to Star Trek. We've done 30 minutes of Star Wars.

SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed it. I think we can. I know. I hope you guys all love this as much as we and J. Cal do. All right. Let's do this. What do you want?

SPEAKER_330: Let's let's cruise through Star Trek real quick. Because I think. Just do four and five.

SPEAKER_60: I think what I love about this show is exactly what we were just saying. It's like the opposite of what they're doing with Star Wars where it's like.

SPEAKER_54: It's the old school Star Trek vibe, but you don't need to know any lore. You don't even need to keep up week to week.

SPEAKER_60: It's like short sci-fi stories set on the enterprise and they go to different planets every week. I I'm finding that very delightful. I love just dipping in.

SPEAKER_26: Here's a 40 minute Spock, uh, Pike adventure. And then we're off to the next week.

Jason Calacanis: There's no problem mixing up very much in the style of kind of the original Star Trek 2. Like episode four is pretty dark. Memento Mori. You encounter this like really scary race that had kidnapped and tortured.

SPEAKER_275: You know, that that officer for her whole life, her whole childhood. Basically, it's awful. It's really, really scary. Khan's descendant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_190: Yeah. Khan's descendant. And then the next episode is like Freaky Friday body swap. Yeah. I like the vacation.

SPEAKER_60: They go there on vacation and it's like a comedy one. But that I don't really feel like any series since maybe next generation or the original has really played in that neighborhood of like, yeah, sometimes it's kind of funny and campy.

SPEAKER_121: Like, and they definitely went with funny camp.

SPEAKER_339: It was delightful.

SPEAKER_121: Like, I really like that. It's so serious. So much Star Trek now, like Picard. I like Picard, but it's very self-serious and discovery too. They're very like, I don't know. They're fancy restaurants.

SPEAKER_131: This is taco truck. Yeah. And this is not cerebral in that way. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: It's fun. It's just plain old fun. And also, I'm sorry to, but for the ladies listening or the, whoever thinks so, Pike. Wow. Oh, he's a handsome guy. He's got one girlfriend. Great hair.

SPEAKER_05: We just are sending each other pictures of him, like straight up. No shame. Who is this guy?

SPEAKER_347: Has he ever been in anything before? That just has somebody from like, uh, I mean, did you see Dr. Strange?

SPEAKER_124: Yes. The new doctor says he was black bolt. He was the guy in the black belt, uh, cause he played black bolt in the, that show.

SPEAKER_269: The, the, uh, now I'm like the immortals, the, the, the internals in humans, that short-lived

SPEAKER_49: Marvel in human show. He was the star of that as black belt, but he's been in, he was in hell on wheels.

SPEAKER_121: That show. What else? I'm looking him up. He's been in a few other things.

SPEAKER_357: I, I did, uh, I do think he's a great character.

SPEAKER_34: I like the spot character. I like how they were. I just like how they are getting back to basics. Like we're saying here, doing the solo dolo episodes, like they can stand alone. You can watch them out of order. It doesn't really matter if you picked up on episode four or five, you could go back and listen to the first, watch the first three and you'd be fine. I kind of like that, that they're kind of encapsulated. And I like this concept of like Spock and emotions coming back as like just a general theory.

Chamath Palihapitiya: And like, I don't know if you noticed, but like in that vacation episode, uh, which I keep hearing the go-go's vacation song, but, uh, they were showing him without the years with the years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Like struggling with emotion and you know, it's, it's very himself. It's really on the nose too.

SPEAKER_366: They're not trying to, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_49: That's also, uh, an Easter egg from the famous Kirk Spock fight from the original series, Star Trek. They're actually using the same weapon and they played that, that, the theme song that

SPEAKER_60: Yes. They play it like as a, as a specific recall. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. Did you also know this, that actor is playing Spock is Ethan Peck.

SPEAKER_373: He's a Gregory Peck's grandson. What? It's true. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_143: Very interesting. Yeah. I, I, this series is just. Well, it doesn't feel cheap. I mean, this is one of the things that is amazing about technology to bring this back to tech

SPEAKER_34: is that they now have the technology to make stuff that looks better than the science fiction we experienced as kids, but to do it, you know, without having to spend three years making the film.

SPEAKER_143: So like Blade Runner with miniatures or the original Star Wars with having to do sound and, you know, uh, also having to create miniatures and to, you know, do all this stuff.

SPEAKER_35: Like now they're just like, yeah, we, we throw up the green screen and good enough.

SPEAKER_60: I mean, I know the real benefit of you could build out the enterprise set and then you just need, like, if there's a planet surface, it's like you pick one or two locations and you can kind of just like, sometimes there's space battles, but other than that, you could kind of make it like a TV show.

SPEAKER_34: Well, I did see somebody referencing that online where they said, like, when you do an episode like this one, um, the fifth one we're talking about, the amok, is it amok? Uh, yeah, Spock amok.

SPEAKER_381: Yeah, Spock amok.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Yeah. Is, it is low cost. So sometimes the, the practical thing is, remember the previous episode was like going into a comet and like the ship's ripping apart.

SPEAKER_34: I mean, that was all CGI action sequences and this one had zero.

Jason Calacanis: I mean, except for people balance it out over the course of a season of plastic, you know, and it doesn't have the kind of dysmorphia of the Star Wars episodes that we were talking about. Like they just start keeping it simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_54: I mean, also like we're used to Star Wars as these epic films where they're, you know, like the state of the art, like industrial light and magic making these effects that were mind-blowing

SPEAKER_124: for their time. And Star Trek has a long history of a bunch of actors standing in a room going like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_390: Like they're not even going to try, everybody will be left. Right.

SPEAKER_58: Historically, it's always been kind of campy and like, I think it, it sort of invites that.

SPEAKER_60: Uh, this past week, uh, the one that, that just debuted, uh, I guess last week, uh, featured a lot of shots of like this sort of big palatial, it was set in this like high tech alien society. Uh, and people noticed online that they just used the mansion from Billy Madison as like this,

SPEAKER_124: they redressed it to be like this fancy castle. I kind of love that. It's just Billy Madison's house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_395: I love when they use the Ennis house over and over again in LA from Blade Runner.

SPEAKER_112: Oh, sure. And they just use it for every time they want to have like a side fiction.

SPEAKER_58: There are like three or four houses in the hills that are just like available to rent for productions.

SPEAKER_60: And you'll start seeing them over and over. Like there's one that was just in Dave last season that I've seen in like a hundred things. And as soon as you see Dave in the pool, you're like, I know that house. I'm like, I know that. There's one.

SPEAKER_348: I actually stayed in a house in Punta Mita in Mexico.

Jason Calacanis: That is one of those houses. It's like in limitless and it's all, it's sort of like in somebody's family, you know?

SPEAKER_83: Now I'm like, I want to watch all the movies that that house is. Oh, there are too many.

SPEAKER_403: Yeah. Fast and Furious also has like a, a James Remar has given him a, given him the business at a safe house.

SPEAKER_404: That's just like one of those LA houses. That's in like get shorty to like a bunch of other. Amazing.

SPEAKER_190: Um, all right. So we've talked about some streaming news while we have. Streaming news while we got a lot on here, because this is.

SPEAKER_97: This is.

Jason Calacanis: The streaming wars continue. Yeah. Lots of drama in cricket. I know. Uh, which you have definitely followed.

SPEAKER_409: So we talked about how Disney was trying to win the rights to broadcast Indian cricket, Indian premier league. Yeah.

SPEAKER_25: They've had it since 2017. They're losing the rights this year. Exactly. They inherited it with Fox. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis: So they won the bid to broadcast the rights, but. Okay. And we'll pay $3 billion for the privilege.

SPEAKER_413: But then they lost the streaming rights to buy to Viacom. Which. Yeah.

SPEAKER_124: Viacom has this collaborative deal with an Indian media company.

SPEAKER_60: So Viacom partnered with an Indian media company and together they have bought the exclusive global streaming rights for Indian premier league cricket.

SPEAKER_01: And so the sense was that this was in America. So this was just going to mean what, that, that Disney like might not meet its subscriber

SPEAKER_60: goals as a result of this one deal, which is definitely going to lose some Indian market share over this because cricket's very popular. There are a lot of people will probably drop Disney plus hot star and grab whatever this Viacom offering is Viacom 18, I think is the conglomerate name.

SPEAKER_49: But what Disney is saying, and who knows, you know, we'll see what happens, but what Disney is saying is the average earnings per user in the Indian market is so far below what they're earning in, in Western Europe, North America, even, you know, some of these are like the Middle East,

SPEAKER_60: even some of these other international markets that they figured it was, it made more sense to pour all of this money into content for those audiences, instead of focusing so much on just the Indian market, which, you know, I think the idea is like cricket outside of India isn't going to have that big of an impact, but you can do stuff that will go and be popular throughout a bunch of other markets with the same amount of money, which does, I think, make some measures.

SPEAKER_34: I mean, this is why discovery is such a juggernaut, because if you make a documentary about

Chamath Palihapitiya: whales for sharks, you know, like shark week works in every language, you literally could just hire a voiceover actor, and just have them read the script, and you're ready to go in 150 languages. Um, same thing with history too, you know, you just, you have these reenactments go on.

SPEAKER_60: Animated stuff, family stuff, it translates much better, you could just redub it, and now it plays wherever you want to send it. Uh, and I think that there, yeah, so there's, there's, I think we're

SPEAKER_49: starting to see almost a little bit of a shift back there. There was, there was a few years where these streamers were just spending billions of dollars trying to spread themselves all around the world and interest people in every market, and I think naturally, now that you're seeing,

SPEAKER_60: you know, the, the sort of the, the industry start to condense again, you're going to see

SPEAKER_53: a lot of those kind of ambitions scale back, and they're going to focus on the most important markets and selling people in the most, where they earn the most, and there's still the most

SPEAKER_48: growth potential. They'll try to like split the difference there. It does seem that sports still is a cornerstone. Oh, for sure.

Jason Calacanis: Very much so. Disney is spending, uh, 11 billion dollars this year on sports rights, which is a third of the 32 billion overall that they're spending on, um, content. And, you know, that's been a big knock on Netflix, which is like, if you want to stay in the game, Netflix,

SPEAKER_247: you're going to have to get sports. Yeah. I mean, it, it is one of the major reasons to watch live. So with Hulu and trying to get people to go to the live tab, the other thing people watch still

SPEAKER_34: watch live, um, is reality shows, um, that have, some of them have live components, right? Yeah. Um, I don't watch them.

SPEAKER_60: That's the first thing that Netflix is their, their initial experiments with live are going to be live streaming events. So like next year's Netflix is a joke comedy festival. Instead of repackaging that as streaming specials, like they're doing this year, next year, maybe they'll just live stream the two hour Amy Schumer showcase or Snoop dogs event or whatever. Why not do Coachella?

SPEAKER_64: Why not do music festivals? Well, that's already happening. Hulu's got Bonnaroo today. I don't know if you did. Okay. Yeah. That's already happening. YouTube streams Coachella every year,

SPEAKER_54: uh, Bonnaroo this year. And I think it's Lollapalooza, Bonnaroo and one other are going to

SPEAKER_433: start on Hulu now. Those things must be, yeah, those things are great. I don't understand why they,

SPEAKER_23: also news is the big one. You know, I think we can make fun of CNN plus. Right. Um, it's easy to make fun of

SPEAKER_34: because they kind of did the one thing that doesn't work on TV anymore, which is these magazine style shows, which like podcasts have kind of killed and short form, like people don't want to sit there at the slow pace, 30 minute magazine show. Right. You know, it's from like Sunday afternoons on like, you know, your local CBS affiliate, these things just aren't compelling to this next generation. But what is compelling is like what we're doing right now, or other people are experimenting with live on YouTube. I just think a live streaming news, 24 hours a day, pop culture news, 24 hours a day. Like if they took the E network and they just did like five hours of live pop culture news, almost

SPEAKER_143: like the ringer has kind of got their paws into with, you know, their view of pop culture. Like

Jason Calacanis: there's a market there. Creators, like honestly start putting creators online. They're live streaming on Twitch anyway, you know, I mean, there's just a, if you needed 24 hours, you could start sprinkling.

SPEAKER_260: There's a way to adapt for an hour of video gaming or an hour of this or that.

SPEAKER_60: Well, we're also already seeing award shows to move over into the live, like, uh, like Paramount plus just had, not only did they stream the Tony awards, which were also on CBS, but Paramount got an hour long free show that was exclusive to Paramount plus. So if you were watching the Tonys, the first hour where they were like, I don't know, people who were presenting an extra musical number bonus behind the scenes footage, whatever you had to watch that. So can you imagine more stuff like that too, where it's like this event, you could watch it in a bunch of different places,

SPEAKER_49: but only if you have Peacock, do you get to see this and NBC universal CEO, Jeff shell was talking

SPEAKER_60: about that this week as well at a conference that, uh, you know, now that we're putting advertising is going to grow in the U S market. We're basically going to revisit the entire U S market again and try to win over the people who didn't sign up the last rush through and, you know, try to like

SPEAKER_301: solidify all of those markets. So who, who knows what's coming in the next few years.

SPEAKER_23: I was shocked by this tweet top 100, most 2021 U S TV broadcast, NFL 75, NBA, NHL, MLB zero. Um, I, is this because, well, no, they do have, I get, I think this is because the NBA sells their

SPEAKER_34: rights to cable channels like TNT and they're not on ABC national except, but for the finals, right? Or maybe, I don't know, maybe if the Eastern Western conference finals were, yeah, those are also, I think on like ABC, but some of them are on TNT. Yeah. So this is just a choice they made to

SPEAKER_00: sell it. But this is just a, this is just a ratings chart, right? It's like the NBA,

SPEAKER_83: the NHL and the MLB, none of those games made it into the top 100 most watched U S TV broadcasts

SPEAKER_409: in 2021. I mean, I think, but 75 of the 100 were football games, like America loves live NFL.

SPEAKER_176: I do think the idea that, yeah, like the, the point that, that he's making overall is true.

SPEAKER_60: That like, there are just more people who want to watch football games on TV than NBA games.

SPEAKER_143: But the NBA chooses not to sell to broadcast networks.

SPEAKER_97: Right, I see. So they're on, they're on less popular. So you're saying it's not as broadly available and if it were, if it were on CBS, then it would have. That is possible. Remember the NBA on NBC? That's fair.

SPEAKER_451: It was every weekend was four NBA games. Finals games are on ABC. Yeah, that's fair. Only finals, right.

SPEAKER_453: I mean, I look, I, I think both things are.

SPEAKER_454: But theoretically, if, if a finals game was that popular, it should be on this chart.

SPEAKER_54: Both, both things I think are true. They're, they're, they are limiting their access by being on basic

SPEAKER_49: cable instead of on network TV. But it's also just less popular. I mean, I think you also have to look at, there are a lot more games per season, especially like MLB,

SPEAKER_60: like one baseball game versus the whole season is like, well, you may or may not watch it.

SPEAKER_177: Oh, that's another way to look at it. There's so many more of those games.

SPEAKER_60: Whereas a football game, you know, there's only what, how many weeks is the entire season? There's more scarcity. That would be interesting.

SPEAKER_23: So the cumulative viewers. Right. For the season for each team. So cumulative viewership for NBA, you know, they have 82 games.

SPEAKER_72: Right. The NFL has, I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_461: I mean, I don't, I'm not going to be good at the numbers.

SPEAKER_72: Well, 17. 17 games, I think, right.

David Friedberg: And then there's 17 regular season games. 17 regular season. Yeah. So nine, is it, is it eight at home, eight home games each. And then you have two. It used to be eight and eight and 16, but they added an extra game.

SPEAKER_466: So now it's nine and eight and seven.

SPEAKER_83: That's what I remember is eight. And then the, the extra one they played like sometime in Europe. I'm just, yeah.

SPEAKER_54: Like shorter season, fewer games means that there's more demand per game. Right. There's going to be more people watching.

SPEAKER_64: So there's five times as many NBA games. Yeah.

SPEAKER_60: I mean, like when, when baseball teams play, it'll sometimes be like the Reds are going to play a five game series against this other team. Yeah. And it's like, you know, who's watching all of them?

SPEAKER_69: Like, uh, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_83: However, uh, although the NFL is America's favorite game, soccer is the world's favorite

SPEAKER_471: game or cricket, but no, so yeah, by far.

Jason Calacanis: So Apple has now signed a deal. You know, Apple missed out of course on NFL. Everybody did Amazon locked the NFL up, but Apple has signed a deal with major league soccer to let them stream every match for 10 years, starting in 2023. This could potentially be, I would imagine huge audience.

SPEAKER_58: It's an interesting one because, uh, and this is how Apple is sort of promoting it as well.

SPEAKER_60: Like usually these leagues divide up the rights at some way, like, just like what we were saying. And, uh, you know, NFL games are on different networks. NBA used to be on NBC. Now it's on T and T all these different, this is every major league soccer of thing that happens for the next decade. Only Apple TV plus that's it. That's the only place to watch it.

SPEAKER_280: So it, you know, if you're a soccer fan, it's now an essential destination.

SPEAKER_34: I wonder if they're going to do something unique with the content for the iOS operating system, because they have a lot of features in iOS. It could be super interesting.

Chamath Palihapitiya: I always see these, uh, soccer fans are so crazy that they're the ones who you see at like 9 AM on a bus or, you know, in a Starbucks, they're holding their, they're watching a soccer match,

SPEAKER_72: you know, all hours of the day, because this is a global sport. Uh, how about in a bar?

SPEAKER_482: Or in a bar, they got their phone out and you're just like, dude.

SPEAKER_483: Oh yeah, bars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_484: But they, if you walk around Manhattan or Hoboken on a random Saturday at 9 AM when the premier league's on, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_488: It's not craziness. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Well, why don't these restaurants just get the clue and just become like a brunch place to watch this stuff? I remember like with the world cup, some places in Manhattan would become just absolute chaos. Like the places expats went, you know, there's a Brazilian restaurant in

Jason Calacanis: Oakland that plays the world cup and you go, I mean, you go at six o'clock in the morning, right? Cause it's Pacific time and it is a. What a party. It is a blast.

SPEAKER_484: I have to say, and beer's at 6 AM. Soccer is penetrating my group of friends who used to think that it was the lamest sport in the world. They're starting to care about the player league that actually are. And they're going like, I have, well, most of them just like a drink and they're going to bars at nine 30 in the morning on Saturday and watching.

SPEAKER_430: Do you, do you think it has to do with bar culture or the sport or some overlap of those two things? I'm being dead serious. I'm not saying like it's alcohol.

SPEAKER_58: It's definitely, uh, there, there have been a lots of demographic sort of studies on this.

SPEAKER_60: Uh, starting when I was a kid, like gen X, soccer became a lot more popular as a kid's sport to play in America, AYSO and like school starting soccer burgers.

SPEAKER_54: And that's what led to those kids grew up. They played soccer when they were kids. Now they want to watch soccer. And so that AYSO and that stuff led to a big boost in Americans caring about soccer because

SPEAKER_49: they knew the rules for the first time, you know?

SPEAKER_501: Yeah. The rules.

SPEAKER_484: And then it's also, um, FIFA, the video game soccer does an amazing job at branding and marketing at stars. So everybody knows who the top five players in the world are. And everybody follows the teams of the players that they like to play with on FIFA. And also I think the game has no breaks. So if you watch an NBA game or an NFL game, it's brutal. Like there's a million commercials, right? Soccer is there's almost, that's why the jerseys are, have so many advertisements on them. Cause there's no time for commercial breaks. I think those three things together, um, make people watch it.

Jason Calacanis: I actually read an interesting, there was like a, so psychologically, the reason we like sports and the reason a thing that gets humans engaged is anticipation, the sense of anticipation. And so soccer of all the sports has the most anticipation because you have to wait so long, ironically for a payoff, but the payoff could come at any point. So even though they're very low scoring games, like the NBA, there's like a payoff every few seconds, somebody makes a basket. So you, your anticipation level is somewhat low football, the place take a long time. Soccer, the place take even longer, but you like, never know you could walk away. And all of a sudden somebody breaks out and scores a goal and you would miss it. And so there's some evidently psych, psychologically, the sense of anticipation gets people really into soccer in a way that they're not as into with other sports.

SPEAKER_58: I think it's fascinating too.

SPEAKER_54: Like to me, soccer feel, and then basketball too, they feel very much like they're live. They're, they're, they're things you want to see live. They're, they're intense in the moment as live events.

SPEAKER_81: Football feels like a TV show with all the breaks and the pauses of the, the, we got to replay this so that football is a hundred percent better on watching.

SPEAKER_507: Right.

SPEAKER_49: Like football is a better experience as a TV show than in a stadium, whereas soccer, basketball, these are in the moment you want to be there feeding off the energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_31: The only way I really liked, um, football games was my uncle, Pauly Prezac would, uh,

Chamath Palihapitiya: bring binoculars to the game and he would study what's going on. And he'd say, Hey, this is when I'm like eight, nine, 10 years old. Jason, look, see the guy, see the guy take his hat off and put it over his chest. That means we're on commercial break. That guy puts the hat back on. That means we're off commercial break. And he had studied everything. So that guy, that's the offensive coordinator. So that's defensive coordinator. See this guy, see him talking to him. This guy's the, you know, uh, you know, a training guy.

SPEAKER_34: And I would sit there with these crazy, expensive, awesome binoculars. Now we were whatever in the 15th, my dad had 18th row at the time, um, at the Meadowlands arena. But it was like, for me, like a really cool part of the game to zoom in on Lawrence Taylor

SPEAKER_43: and just try to watch him sack somebody up close. But if you're watching on TV, they have these great cameras. Right.

SPEAKER_512: You see it as, and it's, these days it's in 4k.

SPEAKER_43: And yeah, exactly. Well, it's also cinematic. You notice they have like these shots that they do now in real time that feel more cinematic.

SPEAKER_239: That's what I mean, to me, the NFL, it just, it feels like it's made and designed to be a TV

SPEAKER_60: experience. Whereas I don't, I don't necessarily know that other sports have that.

SPEAKER_484: The best part about going to an NFL game is the tailgate easily. It's awesome. It's really fun. There's a ton of food. You're hanging out before the game, but the actual game itself is like, there's, it's a break every five seconds. And a lot of times the player, it's funny watching them. The players are just standing around on the field during like random TV timeouts, just like hanging out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_519: I will say I used to have a really good time at UCLA games at the Rose Bowl, but it was, it was just drinking. It was mostly the drinking. It was a little bit of the football mostly.

SPEAKER_430: All right. Let's do this Facebook story where we got Lon here. I think you might have something to say about this. Good little piece. TS up here.

Jason Calacanis: So Facebook evidently, not surprisingly has decided to copy a winning formula. And this time, and we talked actually yesterday about how YouTube is having great success with shorts. Evidently Facebook wants to be tick tock. According to the verge of Facebook internal memo shows plans for making the Facebook product more like tick tock and potentially recombining messenger back into the app.

SPEAKER_197: I'm not even sure what this would start to look like. Huh? Other than I do think it was a mistake to take messenger out of the Facebook app.

SPEAKER_60: It's created a on years long ongoing nightmare situation where people are messaging me on Facebook, and I don't open that stupid secondary app enough.

SPEAKER_301: And I just miss it entirely.

Chamath Palihapitiya: If the app had specific functionality for power users and Facebook didn't force you to use it,

SPEAKER_21: and it was built into Facebook as well. I could see that working. In other words, like it was a fuller feature.

SPEAKER_49: I mean, I think a lot of it is just I use Facebook so much less than I used to that I'm just checking

SPEAKER_60: in on one app a lot less, let alone two apps. There's not enough value in Facebook at this point for them to spread it across two apps for me.

SPEAKER_34: I mean, do Facebook users like our parents and our non-technical Gen X, you know, the half of Gen X,

SPEAKER_528: that's not really super technical, let's be honest, like our cousins who are, you know, just not super tech savvy.

SPEAKER_43: Do they want to make and consume TikToks? I don't.

SPEAKER_451: They certainly don't want to make them. I guess they want to consume them, maybe. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_348: I don't really know, but what I do think is interesting is what this really sounds like is more algorithmic interference.

Jason Calacanis: If the key to TikTok, like Facebook is constantly trying to figure out what to do with the news feed, right? Remember, it was like, we're going to prioritize your friends and family. Now we're going to prioritize news. Oh, we broke America. Now we're going to prioritize your friends and family again and deprioritize news. And what this Verge story seems to be saying is that rather than prioritize posts from accounts, people follow Facebook's main feed will like TikTok start heavily recommending posts, regardless of where they come from. So they're just going to try to feed you things that they think you want.

SPEAKER_534: Yeah. Yeah. They're schizophrenic in their approach to all this.

SPEAKER_23: You know, it reminds me of Madonna. You ever like see pictures of Madonna today? Like I, sure. I love when Madonna does a great pop song. She was just at Britney's wedding. Right. And now every time I see Madonna, she's like 60 years old and that's fine. But she's hanging out with a bunch of 22 year olds, like trying to act cool.

Chamath Palihapitiya: And it's like that, um, Hey kids, you know, I'm just like Madonna, just sing songs.

SPEAKER_43: You don't have to be at every pop culture.

Chamath Palihapitiya: Let her live Jason. I just feel like it's trying too hard. Like you gotta age gracefully. I, you know, like Harrison Ford is just like, I'm going to go fly my planes. You know, it's just going to be Harrison Ford.

SPEAKER_43: You don't have to make a big deal out of it. I'm old. Yeah. I, I'm going to do old people stuff from TikTok. I'm super confused.

SPEAKER_291: I feel like Facebook is the equivalent of this. They're not aging gracefully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_513: I, I mean, they're trying to glom onto the latest trend and it feels weird. Just like be an old person's place, be an old age home.

SPEAKER_61: They're just, it's, I think their problem is their background stuff.

SPEAKER_60: Like the, there is still utility for Facebook in my life. I haven't deleted it entirely because there are a lot of people.

SPEAKER_49: Like I went to high school with, I went to college with, or like my cousins from back East or friends of friends or whatever directory. There are right. Those people. And if I ever need to get in touch with them, or if I want to see a picture of their baby, uh, you know, that's Facebook is where I'd have to go. Uh, but it's just not a day to day thing. And I think that's what they're really struggling with is how do we take this thing that still has some value, but it's like once a month kind of value

SPEAKER_60: and turn it into a thing that has like immediate. Oh, I got to check in on Facebook. And like, I don't know how to do it at this point.

SPEAKER_69: Like, I don't think tick tock is the answer.

SPEAKER_545: But I don't have any Hanna Molly. I think it's going back to Madonna. Aren't you? Yes. You know, Benny Hanna. You like, you go to Benny Hanna. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: You have that great experience. They chop up some chicken, the onion tower, the egg, toss it in your mouth. You want the shrimp extra. Great. And then they're like, yeah, we added a sushi menu. And you're like, why would you do that? Yeah. Like, there's no, you don't need to put sushi on the menu at Benny Hanna. Just be Benny Hanna. I think this is Facebook's problem. Just be Facebook.

SPEAKER_190: Well, just let people interact with their friends and family. Yes. I mean, that's the part I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you keep having it? And I guess the only reason you keep having to mess with that is because you're trying to increase engagement, right?

Jason Calacanis: I mean, it's so boring for you to spend hours and hours and hours there clicking a targeted ad. But that's not it. But every time they mess with it, it puts a whole bunch of businesses out of business, right? Because people are like, oh, I'm the school or the, you know, I'm just trying to have my like small business page here. And they screw with that. And then they, you know, overemphasize groups that red pill people and turn them into Q. And then they now are going to like feed me a bunch of Huskies to try to compete with TikTok. And it's like, just decide what you want to be. And then be that thing. If you want to be Madonna and go to parties for the rest of time. Great. I am not going to. You know what it's like, Molly? You do.

SPEAKER_08: You know, the band YouTube.

SPEAKER_43: You've earned it, Madonna. You have earned it. YouTube just goes out and they play the hits. Billy Joel goes to Madison Square Garden every month.

Chamath Palihapitiya: He's got a 22 song set list and you're going to get everything you want. And you're going to get Piano Man. You're going to get Miami. You're going to get all the Italian restaurant. You can get all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_43: Yeah. And he's not doing a rap song or EDM or he's not trying to. He's not trying to decide for you.

SPEAKER_08: Stop trying to decide for me, Facebook. Just let me have what I want. I just want them to age graceful. That's all I'm saying. Like, be what you are.

SPEAKER_290: It feels sad to me.

SPEAKER_259: They can't be what they just are because they're like the white pages.

SPEAKER_60: At this point, like they're, they're just, it's not sexy what they are.

SPEAKER_177: And they need, I think they want, they want a sexier line to be in. I just don't know what that, I don't know what that is. I don't think it's going to be metaverse either.

SPEAKER_136: Yeah. I just, it's sad. It's like my space. Just that, you know, it's desperate. Facebook. My space.

SPEAKER_562: They were like, you know what? We had a great run. They were like a rockstar dying at like 45 years old.

SPEAKER_60: I worked at my space in the later days. And there was a lot of thrashing around on that death. Okay. But they OD'd. They went out on top.

SPEAKER_563: They were trying their best. They did their like, curated communities about vinyl toys that I was editing. There were, they made a play.

SPEAKER_564: Forgot that you did that final. Yeah. Who was the guy who did it?

SPEAKER_567: Was it Mike Jones? Oh, I believe it was, I think it was Mike Jones.

SPEAKER_568: Mike Jones for like two years. Just trying to like literally revive the corpse.

SPEAKER_124: It was Sean Percival who used to work with us at Mahalo. He hired me to go over there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_570: Wow.

SPEAKER_49: Well, I mean, they tried, they tried to have creator run communities. So they would pay a person with a big MySpace account, post eight things a day about movies

SPEAKER_58: or about Star Wars or about vinyl toys. They tried to go like YouTube creator studio. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_61: And not a bad, not a bad move. It didn't take, but, but that was their, that was their strategy. They paid you really well, right? You secured the bag of that one. It was a, it was a, it was a nice gig and it was, it was easy. Cause all I, I was editing.

SPEAKER_121: Like I was supervising all of those people.

SPEAKER_170: So I didn't, I didn't have to post anything. I just had to look at their posts and be like, good job. Those are good posts. Who wouldn't want to do that?

SPEAKER_580: Who wouldn't want to do that? I feel like Instagram is holding up. Okay.

SPEAKER_186: Well, Instagram, it's useful. Like Instagram has a thing that it does and it does that thing well.

SPEAKER_25: And you're going to open it every day. Cause you want to see what pictures your friends are sharing or what's going on in their stories. It's just immediate.

SPEAKER_190: It's fine. I think it's the one that makes people feel bad. And I mean, we've talked about this a lot. Like in the producer chat, we've talked a lot about how like

Jason Calacanis: Instagram is the one that sort of gives you FOMO or it makes you feel fat or you wish you had better style. Whereas TikTok is the one that, you know, again, depending on the feed that you have carefully curated for yourself. In my case, all cute animals all the time makes you feel great. Like it's just fun. It can just be plain old fun. I feel like, and I feel like all the reels, the reels are just reposted TikToks. Like that is not, I'm starting to see a couple more original reels, but that one's not really taken off compared to TikTok.

Chamath Palihapitiya: There's such a power move by, such a power move by TikTok. You know, you think about these little features that they let you download anybody's video. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if that's a user setting or like you could say, don't let people download it. But I see people have made a cottage industry of downloading great TikToks and then tweeting them

SPEAKER_584: or putting them on Facebook. And they do that thing where the watermark appears. The watermark is there.

SPEAKER_585: So you see the user. That's the vital thing that other sites weren't doing is even if you steal somebody's TikTok,

SPEAKER_278: everybody can see who made it. It's an ad for not just TikTok, but for that TikTok account. Exactly.

SPEAKER_147: So go ahead and rip my TikTok. If you share it, it still comes back to me. They get that final little thing where you got to hit pause in the final frame. Right. You got to like, look at their ad handle and figure it out.

SPEAKER_190: You know, and that's exactly what YouTube has been doing the whole time, is allowing you to embed YouTubes and have that branding everywhere.

Jason Calacanis: And I have realized, just as we're saying this, that that is one of the biggest irritations with Facebook and Instagram. It is so hard to share off of those platforms. You can only message each other. Like they're built. It's this total garden thing, which of course you were going to end up like dying inside the garden because you can't get any outside, you know, they hit scale.

Chamath Palihapitiya: So at the time when they hit scale, Molly, they were like, okay, shields up. Yeah, we, we won shields up. Nothing leaves. Nobody leaves. There's no way you click on an ad.

SPEAKER_34: We're going to use the in-app browser and you have to like navigate three clicks to take

SPEAKER_143: this ad if you want to go open it in your regular browser, you know, so you can use your login or your payment system, whatever. And it, yeah, it's just, it was a, it was a clever move. At the time. At the time. But now it's just like. But if you don't have scale in your building scale. Yeah. Let everybody download everything. Imagine if YouTube had let you download other people's videos or like up to 30 seconds of a video, but they put a giant YouTube watermark on it and the person's handle, the URL. Yeah, that would have been dope. You can download up to 30 seconds of any video. Would have been killer. You know, I use all these third party services or I'm sorry, my friend. Exactly. Use all these third party services. My friends, who's not me. I've heard of things. Had an app where he could take a Mark Knopfler bootleg channel and use this app on windows that costs like 10 bucks and download every video on the channel, put it on the thumb drive. So when you're on a plane, you could listen to all those bootleg contests like an old man.

SPEAKER_602: Wouldn't it be cool if YouTube premium let you download and watch stuff offline on a plane? You can do that. You have YouTube premium to do that now too, but it's not as good as ripping it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_143: YouTube premium, you can, you can download. So when I'm on the mountain skiing, I've downloaded all these dire straits concerts. And if I want to listen to a nice concert while I'm, you know, shredding the mountain.

SPEAKER_83: Maybe I should take the five minutes to sign up for this. Like I tell myself to do every day. YouTube.com slash premium to sign up.

SPEAKER_604: You have premium loaded it.

SPEAKER_182: I loaded it yesterday in the tab like I'm doing it and I didn't do it. Lon has YouTube premium.

SPEAKER_606: I've had it since the like YouTube red days.

SPEAKER_69: I used to watch Ryan Hanson solves crimes on television. That's how long I've been around.

SPEAKER_430: It's so great to have this thing and not see ads ever again. All right, let's end this video here and we'll wrap up. All right.

SPEAKER_607: We have a video to play us out. Yeah. Some context for this video.

SPEAKER_484: So one thing I forgot to mention about why my friends, I think like soccer is because it's like a very, uh, you know, they sing songs. They like, they like sway. They put your arms around each other. It's like a very like collegial thing. Um, and there was a tick tock that went viral during the pandemic, uh, where they sing, uh, savage gardens, 1997 hit truly madly deeply. Um, and I thought it'd be a funny thing to play us out too. So I'll drop it in.

SPEAKER_610: Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_611: Let's be your dream. I'll be your wish. I'll be your fantasy.

SPEAKER_614: I'll be your rope. I'll be your love. Be everything that you need.

SPEAKER_615: I love you more with every breath. Truly madly deeply do. I will be strong. I will be faithful.

SPEAKER_617: Cause I'm counting on a new beginning. A reasonable beginning. A deeper beginning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_619: That's pretty great.

SPEAKER_621: That's awesome. I can't put it in on that. I know.

SPEAKER_41: I'm like, damn it. Let's move to Ireland.

SPEAKER_484: All of my friends were sending that to each other like mid lockdown. Cause you know, you can't go out. Yeah. You couldn't go out for like months. And everybody was just like, Hey, Hey, I miss you, bro. I miss you, bro. I can't wait until we go out and drink again.

SPEAKER_626: I want to move to the UK and be a hooligan.

SPEAKER_484: And that also ties into the tick tock thing. Cause that, you can see that was like the perfect download.

SPEAKER_296: I would say it is the perfect tick tock. Very creative. I give them credit. All right, everybody.

SPEAKER_430: Thanks so much to Lon for coming in. Everybody follow Lon at Lon's. You can see Lon's, uh, latest news summaries every day inside.com slash streaming inside.com slash streaming, get his newsletter. He gives all kinds of great tips. Uh, and just a great guy. One of my great collaborators over the years. Great to see you, buddy. Always great to be here.

SPEAKER_630: And anything we need to wrap up here in the, in the outro.

SPEAKER_01: Well, tomorrow we got that big Friday variety show as always. We're gonna have some news. We're gonna have some okay. Boomer.

SPEAKER_50: We might even have a little bonus content depending on what happens with that whole. Elon Musk goes to Twitter. Situation. Oh yeah. I heard it.

SPEAKER_630: Do the, uh, the all hands meeting. It must be leaking as we speak.

SPEAKER_484: So we'll, and Alex, our guy from the verge got the scoop on it. So there we go later. There we go. Awesome. And then we also have an interview that you're doing today.

SPEAKER_636: Oh, that's going to be interesting. You want to change that for the audience?

SPEAKER_484: Do we want to publish that tomorrow? Sure. I mean, I think it's time like a triple variety tomorrow going like Alex from the verge talking about the Twitter, all hands then that then. Okay. Boomer.

SPEAKER_430: Yeah. I mean, do you want to spill the beans of what we're doing in a couple hours? Do you want to? Yeah, I think it's fine.

SPEAKER_484: Yeah.

SPEAKER_143: I mean, I'm shocked that this is actually happening. I, I didn't. Me too. Yeah. But, uh, go ahead. Explain.

SPEAKER_484: Um, well, uh, there is a crypto trading platform called Kraken. Yeah. And, uh, the CEO had, uh, a bit of a culture war, I guess what's what the New York Times called it at his company. Yeah. And he said some things and some employees said some things and, uh, you could all go read about it in the New York Times. The article is called, uh, inside a corporate culture war stoked by a crypto CEO is the title of the article. Basically. Interesting. Yeah. He's going to come and engage later.

SPEAKER_430: He wants to engage about and talk about it. So I thought, yeah, sure. Let's do it. Um, it's, um, it's kind of like the coin base thing. Molly, remember that? Mm-hmm. Like don't bring your feelings to work or let's not let you stay focused on work.

SPEAKER_147: Imagine that times 10.

SPEAKER_83: Mm-hmm. I saw some, uh, I saw some Molly white tweets about this. Oh yes. Web three is going great, going, going great.

SPEAKER_143: She was yes. Talking about it. So we'll have. Okay.

SPEAKER_646: Well, you have fun with that.

SPEAKER_01: That's it.

SPEAKER_143: You don't want to join for that one.

SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a, I have a founder meeting at the same time. Oh, I have a sorting, I have sorting training.