SPEAKER_00: all right everybody it is monday we had a big weekend chopping some trees down but first up SPEAKER_01: on today's show noma the restaurant copenhagen it's just amazing i've been there once or twice and uh yeah big labor story they're shutting down because uh they can't use free labor anymore SPEAKER_04: yeah this is i mean i know you didn't see this coming that we're going to open by talking about the world's best restaurant noma shutting down but we're obsessed with it because of that labor Jason Calacanis: story we've been talking about constantly the other story we have been and will be talking about constantly more generative ai or derivative ai we're coming up with new names for it uh degenerate ai degenerate ai we're going to talk about the information report that microsoft will integrate chat gpt not just into bing but apparently also into word and email yes uh and uh yeah i have SPEAKER_09: a lot of feelings on where this is going i and also an announcement i'm going to show for the SPEAKER_11: first time the open ai chat gpt ios app i got invited to the early test flight of it and i'll show it here for the first time ever uh on this week in service it's gonna be a great show stick with us this week SPEAKER_14: in startups is brought to you by linkedin jobs a business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters post your first job for free at linkedin.com slash twist house of macadamias is the next big health trend get 20 off your first purchase at house of macadamias.com slash twist by using code twist 20 and the microsoft for startups founders hub helps all founders build a better startup at a lower cost from day one open to anyone with an idea you'll get up to 150 000 in azure credits technical advisory access to mentors and experts free dev tools and so much more there is no funding requirement and it only takes minutes to join sign up today at aka.ms slash this week in startups all SPEAKER_17: right it's monday my r2 unit is up and running i'm back in the bay area you don't see snow behind me SPEAKER_21: 14 days molly i got 14 executive days in good work of skiing you know an hour and a half to SPEAKER_22: two and a half hours each time seven to 14 runs got into a rhythm feel great okay wait you would do SPEAKER_24: seven to 14 runs in an hour and a half something like that you know there are these 900 elevation SPEAKER_22: runs you could do real quick um but yeah i think i somewhere between yeah i mean if you it's like David Friedberg: every 15 minutes to 25 minutes you can do a run depending on the length of it it's uh 10 minutes SPEAKER_30: really like three minutes to 10 minutes down depending on the length of the run and then um 15 minutes up SPEAKER_04: you're like let me do the back of the envelope math on my ski runs i'm like the world's laziest skier i like to do four to six long lazy blue runs and then have a hot tie for the day uh well you SPEAKER_37: haven't gotten up there yet but um it's a day's worth we'll get you up there um yeah i make a um David Friedberg: buttered rum beverage um which is very nice i sourced it uh it's one of the things molly we're recording the show right now everybody but you know there's always a couple of um things over the long weekends and breaks that we have to catch up on so uh i like to give big tips right i hate giving to charity although i do you know do that from time to time uh but i like prefer you know giving huge tips so i gave this guy a huge tip and i said hey you know what's the story with the buttered rum you know how do you make that um and he just took it out and he said here i sourced the buttered rum from this place you can get it online uh take a picture and i was like well thank you uh mr bartender SPEAKER_11: i took a picture and i ordered a six or eight pack of this buttered rum which looks like butter you freeze it and then you put a scoop of that in there with a little rum and a little hot water maybe a little cream or something whatever you're down with and you get a hot little hot little buttered SPEAKER_01: spice rum off the mountain very nice delightful life is excellent yeah ah and um yeah that was uh that was my little winter break i think we need to address the question that's on everyone's mind though SPEAKER_48: oh oh um i am not taking the ceo job at uber i know everybody wants to know if i'll be the next ceo of uber i think dara's doing a great job i also will not be taking the ceo job at microsoft either great SPEAKER_51: job being done actually i have a totally different um ceo job that i wanted to ask you about though Jason Calacanis: which i think is the real one that everyone wants to know which is are you taking the co-ceo job SPEAKER_01: oh at salesforce yeah mark benioff um no mark benioff actually dm'd me over the weekend he was like hey i gotta introduce you to somebody and i you know gave my phone number i said obama or brad pitt SPEAKER_25: that was my joke obama or brad pitt so who are you introducing me to um yeah but seriously um what's up with the chainsaw ah so this is a very big controversial i literally got calls about this SPEAKER_62: my mom is calling uh friends are calling everybody i was like normally i don't chainsaw before i don't SPEAKER_63: cinderella but in this case i'll need you i don't need you cutting off a limb so um i've used a SPEAKER_69: chainsaw before you know i'm uh i've used a chain saw i've used a circular saw i've you know i helped SPEAKER_22: build a lot cabin in my youth uh i've done physical labor i know it sounds crazy to me oh you know people only know me in my 40s or something um so we had a tree or two fall now i had a redwood that was dead that they told me i had to cut down i didn't want to cut it down but they're like it's gonna fall in your neighbor's house and fall in your house people could die yeah so we had a pro come this is not cheap to take a redwood tree down you know they're you're quite high and it's SPEAKER_01: tens of thousands of dollars and i mean you get some nice piece of wood out of it but anyway long SPEAKER_75: story short during this water what do they call the uh rain we had atmospheric river slash bomb SPEAKER_77: cyclone both okay bomb cyclone atmospheric river uh so you know around the sides of my house we have SPEAKER_22: a gravel pathway it's quite charming now i have a plastic uh path and all the gravel is now on the tennis court so there was so much rain it came down and destroyed that so that's like whatever some SPEAKER_69: amount of money to fix that then some more to got in the gym and the wood floor now looks like it's the deck of like you know uh the santa maria more than you know it's like warped wood so i gotta rip SPEAKER_22: out 10 20 000 worth of flooring i mean i maybe this stuff will be covered by my shirts who knows anyway so it was quite damaging and um a tree fell and then there's another tree about to fall in the front yard and uh you know it's gonna be like 10 grand to chop this thing up and i'm like everything in the bay area is five to ten grand and then when you get the bill it's 12 to 25. you you even in the east bay i think the east bay numbers you just cut it by about 20 and you're like hey i need to get this thing done they're like hey that's three thousand to eight thousand right yeah then you get the bill SPEAKER_75: and it's five to fifteen fifteen always yeah yeah and so listen i'm not uh listen manual labor's hard SPEAKER_22: i guess that's why they put the word manual in it but i'm like it's sunday i don't want to sit in front of my computer i'm goddamn sick and tired doing emails and slack messages and dealing with the down market it's you know it's it's never ending yeah just be responsive to email all day long so i decided i would go uh buy a chainsaw and cut this goddamn tree up and uh so you know i watched a couple of videos on youtube about chainsaw accidents and yeah they fall into a small subset and um i got in SPEAKER_93: my new suburban i bought a suburban while i wait for my cybertruck uh so i have a suburban yeah SPEAKER_97: i always wanted to have a suburban yeah it's a sick car that's awesome you know i had two two SPEAKER_22: electric cars and then i replaced the minivan with a suburban like to have one ice engine just in case SPEAKER_99: you know stuff hits the family apocalypse yeah apocalypse kind of situation i have both options SPEAKER_93: so anyway i drive the suburban and i put on like a leather jacket uh i put on my combat my danner boots SPEAKER_101: and i put on uh i said hey siri costume up for this i'm a cosplay lumberjack play and i said hey siri play this is leonard skinnard on spotify i just put on some leonard skinnard SPEAKER_107: now playing diet altitude by lana del rey no i don't know siri don't do that so you got a lot of SPEAKER_110: del rey out of that i have no idea what sir is that she's like she's trying to steer me back to SPEAKER_48: amazing she's like stay on targets so i'm like okay siri play me this is leonard skinnard SPEAKER_17: yeah i just go to my local uh ace hardware it was a little bit of a head fake because they put an SPEAKER_22: ace hardware inside of like like a uh inside of they put like a little corner ace hardware inside of a department a grocery store it's like wait a second that's not what i went on so i go to home SPEAKER_116: depot yeah i'm like i talked to the guy i said hey uh when i got you really did you really i said oh god SPEAKER_17: aisle 30 what are you looking for i said you know i've only used gas but i hear these electrics are pretty great it's like they're incredible now let me tell you the ryobi uh and i was like wow SPEAKER_119: you know kind of like this other brand but you know maybe i'll give it a shot i got a ryobi and SPEAKER_67: uh i went out there and i started cutting this giant tray you know 50 foot tree into pieces until SPEAKER_121: the chain came do not do this at home the tension of a tree that size oh my lord like there's the SPEAKER_124: chainsaw alone the chain chain flying off actually is a way that people die one that's one yeah sure SPEAKER_77: two you need laceration you know varying to varying severity sure lose a lose a lose a Jason Calacanis: piece of you always there's like the tree itself and the tension of a fallen tree so that when you release some of that tension for example like a huge branch or a rebound you gotta know how to do SPEAKER_128: the undercutting and the top cutting and then the only problem was i didn't have any wedges you SPEAKER_69: need to have wedges i've cut trees down before uh or i've cut trees that have fallen down i should say you need to have wedges i had no wedges i ordered the wedges off amazon i forgot to pick them up at home depot but i'm gonna get the wedges here also the chainsaw you know the chains normally SPEAKER_97: come off and i had to tighten the the tension was a little off it was a little loose it's supposed to SPEAKER_22: come with the device and then i realized i don't have any tools so i can't even i don't have to take the lug nuts off i can't receive the chain so that's coming on tuesday wednesday so i'll be back out SPEAKER_75: there until the week cutting i was gonna say when is the guy coming when's the pro coming SPEAKER_04: no i already cut it into the major pieces and i'm just gonna cut the rest of the pieces if you're not dead yet you're probably fine and i bet it was cathartic ryobi by the way great like up-and-coming tool brand i bought their um power washer uh power washer one of the nice things too is with these SPEAKER_93: electric batteries you know because of how good batteries have gotten in cars and previously phones SPEAKER_22: yeah batteries actually charge super fast they have like super chargers so you plug the charger into the ryobi like a fan goes off in the charging base station and it charges it fast and then i was like oh i got my suburban here i backed it up to the trees and i was like oh i SPEAKER_140: got a plug in the back of my suburban so i plugged the charger into the suburban you know my 110 outlet SPEAKER_93: in my suburban i'm like yeah i'm ready to go but i was like i don't have a hatchet i need a hatchet i SPEAKER_51: need some wedges so i had my eye protection i don't have protection i don't have chaps producers you're really missing a chance here to rock some america f yeah like this is your moment i mean i put the pictures SPEAKER_22: right now they at any point in time they could have pulled up some pictures of the tree it's people when i posted the tree this might be my most engaged twitter post i mean that elon didn't respond to the ones where elon responds the ones where elon doesn't respond this is one of the highest i think i might have a half million people viewed this and nine out of ten people were like SPEAKER_63: uh yeah literally everyone was like don't do it don't do it don't do it don't do it go back to Jason Calacanis: the one where he's like what should i get like to because that is the one that made you sound like SPEAKER_146: you were just like i can probably handle this i'm gonna get a chainsaw like you had never SPEAKER_147: yeah that's my sweet home alabama keep going keep going keep going keep going yeah no further SPEAKER_148: i did like a little play-by-play yeah there it is that's yeah there's a tree that fell on the SPEAKER_152: property you see any recommendations medium-sized tree everyone's like oh yeah it's almost 700 000 views 742 000 yeah i mean it's almost like it's like double cnbc right now if you're a small business SPEAKER_154: owner and you manage hiring at your company you know that success in 2023 will depend on the team SPEAKER_11: members you surround yourself with that means when you're hiring you want to use linkedin jobs so you get the most qualified the most motivated candidate well linkedin jobs is your secret weapon how well they match open roles with the people who have the skills right you've seen profiles now where it puts people skills you also want people with the values and the experiences that you're looking for right they have to be a culture fit they got 875 million members the march to a billion at linkedin continues and these are the most qualified people you know they take the time to maintain a profile on linkedin so they're very proud of their professional achievements that's just natural signaling that they're the people you want to meet with first and if you got a strong following like me and i suggest you invest in your linkedin following you can add the purple hiring frame to your linkedin profile yeah you ever see online it says hiring it's in purple well that spreads the word every time you post to your network every time someone comes to your profile they see you're hiring they click on it and boom now you're going to get inbound that's even more qualified right these easy to use tools are built into linkedin jobs including screening questions which i love they filter out the drive-by non-serious candidates so it's really simple the most qualified people in the world are on linkedin we all know that and in 2023 you want to stack your team with those a players and the a players are on linkedin jobs and that's what we did at launch we've hired so SPEAKER_99: many great people on linkedin linkedin jobs helps you find qualified candidates that you want to talk to and it helps you do that faster post your job for free linkedin.com twist that's linkedin.com SPEAKER_157: twist to post your job for free terms and conditions to apply the view count is weird though because SPEAKER_158: it's a the view count is a very revealing engagement metric it is isn't it yeah i they originally were SPEAKER_163: going to do it molly i remember in the early days of twitter i'm not sure it says and they didn't do it David Friedberg: because they didn't want people to feel bad who were new to twitter so you know oh three people saw my tweet you know when you're starting out right but i think what it has done is for people who have SPEAKER_168: a big following you're like oh wait a second 10 000 people's a lot of people it is then when you see SPEAKER_151: that i feel like it doesn't okay we're gonna do our first story any minute now thank you producer Jason Calacanis: nick but i feel like it doesn't have the effect that it should have because what it really showed like for example uh when somebody's like oh you should come and speak because you have this big twitter following and a lot of people will come and listen and i'm like actually only like one percent of them actually are real or engage or whatever and then the follower count to then replies and retweets and whatever kind of tells that story in a potentially unflattering way from like a brand SPEAKER_69: or engagement perspective if you are an old brand or you are on the suggested user list it's pretty brutal because what happened was a billion people signed up for twitter in the early days and then never SPEAKER_22: used their accounts yeah so follower account is probably off if you were on the follower list like there were people who were gifted being on the follower list i offered to pay a million dollars SPEAKER_69: i wasn't on it but you'll see like certain people got a million followers two million followers and some of them were journalists i won't say which ones but then you look at their actual view counts they got a million followers you're like wow this person's balling but then they have the same you know 10 000 or 20 000 people viewing like wait one percent of a million you know 10 000 so what's going on here and it was you know when you signed up it automatically signed up for 50 or SPEAKER_151: 100 accounts you know in the in the workflow yeah this is interesting now i'm looking back at my tweets okay no i'm on i'm on target i'm staying on target all right we have a bunch of the best SPEAKER_146: piece of advice though was david sax's reply did you see david's yes to survive i was like how am SPEAKER_51: i in this position where i'm like yes david sax you are correct you see you can be friends with SPEAKER_124: the republican this is how i started 2023 you guys this is what jason has driven me to you like SPEAKER_186: the david sax tweet david sax is right and then a lightning bolt hit my house that's what happened SPEAKER_69: see because i he had sent a piece of advice that was uh advice for 23 23 prior to our survival for startups and then he said see previous advice it's pretty funny um so anyway i thought that was it's David Friedberg: a good time you know doing a little physical labor i've i've decided now i want to do some physical stuff every day i'm in my 50s i gotta get out there and do stuff also i see i want to move to SPEAKER_190: the mountains i've decided i want to live in the mountains let's all go i feel like i want to live SPEAKER_22: in the mountains i got starlink i got the you know high-speed internet and then i'm getting the David Friedberg: gentek generator so and i'll probably get a power wall or two so i'll have like dual i'll have triple electrical and double internet that should be more than enough yeah you know even during season SPEAKER_194: like a little you know a little pied-a-terre a little apartment in the bay uh i already have SPEAKER_69: that in the old office in the old office and yeah right you just put crash there so um yeah i just i David Friedberg: like being a mountain man and hey and jeremy renner get well soon brother oh my god i'm not crazy jeremy renner lives up in lake tahoe by me and uh or maybe reno same area uh you know the mountains SPEAKER_00: and he had a snowcat and it fell on top of him apparently um but he also is kind of SPEAKER_201: like a handy guy who's up there living this lifestyle kind of thing where you get back to SPEAKER_179: nature so and his own awesome snowcat that he bought so that he could be super independent and Jason Calacanis: plow people out ran over him yes i'm just saying he could also be considered a cautionary tale SPEAKER_205: yes about getting too cocky about doing everything yourself i'm just saying i'm just saying that's an option i think there's that's a way to think about it i'm not possibility no cat yet but i do have a SPEAKER_25: suburban so i'm on my way i was actually literally this is how insane i've got i can't believe like montana molly is over here just like can you just be careful with the tools like i literally uh started SPEAKER_209: looking up like hey how do you put a snow plow on the front of a suburban can you do that can you put us oh you can for sure do that and you should and i was like i can clean people's driveways and then i SPEAKER_22: realized oh wait a second i i'm a one percenter there's a service that already cleans my driveway SPEAKER_148: that i'm already paying for i don't need to you're like i'm not paying for the chainsaw thing but SPEAKER_216: yeah i'm not paying for that but you want a lot of news a lot of news going on yep and oh and also SPEAKER_133: by the way it falls under austerity i am in full austerity mode um just because i feel like jerome SPEAKER_99: powell is trying to break everybody and i'm like all right powell you want to break me let's go i'm cutting my own tree down i'm i've already been making my own uh cafe du monde cold brew coffee so SPEAKER_93: that's money blue bottle's not going to get blue bottle can lay some people off the poor guy who's going to cut this tree down he lost a 5 10k job his kids are not going to uh college um because i'm going to also do my neighbor's two trees and so that's one year of college his kids are not getting SPEAKER_99: and um that's it break the economy jerome powell you wanted us to take austerity measures that's it SPEAKER_218: here we go i'm moving to the mountains this is really that this is really like the all-in influence SPEAKER_221: no i just feel like i mean like when is it going to end disaster it feels like a disaster SPEAKER_04: movement no like that jobs report on friday was amazing like it's the weirdest economy ever because SPEAKER_171: it's super unevenly what happened the jobs report on hold on i got to look at the specific numbers SPEAKER_226: because i don't want to like screw it up this is we got more jobs yeah than anybody had expected it Jason Calacanis: was like booming there i mean it wasn't like booming but it was a market that topped expectations the unemployment rate is three and a half percent we still cannot find people to work at like you know wage growth was and for the fed god help us because this is how our economy works for the fed this is good news that wage growth was below expectations right meaning wages are not you know and if you annualize actually inflation over the like back six months of the year sure that like two two and a half percent like exactly where the fed wants it ah so but so actually the stock market is booming today because they're like i mean you know who knows with the fed but everybody's like well maybe the rate raising will not be as aggressive after all in february because like we had this good jobs report and like wages are slowing down and inflation is significantly slowing down like but there's this tech apocalypse happening it's like right in our sector and it's easy it's sort of like how kai would always say the stock market is not the economy the tech industry is not the economy it's a big chunk of SPEAKER_04: it though but for us all apocalypses are local you step on an apocalypses are local i like yeah it's like SPEAKER_35: your zombie no zombie apocalypse yeah at disneyland no right so packed right yeah just in san francisco SPEAKER_11: and the bayern attack and everything well here's the thing too you know like he wants they kept rates rates artificially low they printed all this extra money and then they said inflation is going to be transitory and now these are the same people who are saying well inflation is going to be here forever SPEAKER_01: and we have to break employment and i'm like did you just say you want to break people's employment right and their 401ks like wait how does this make sense and i guess they that's how they that's their Jason Calacanis: tool so i mean honestly we did a whole episode at marketplace on like and i will take credit for this idea i was like hey you know what it kind of seems like maybe we should like not listen to economists like maybe they like don't know what they're doing and we had this professor of economics from like the SPEAKER_171: london school or whatever to come on and be like yeah no they don't know what they're doing i just Jason Calacanis: feel like we put economists in charge of policy across the entire government and the fact is they're using you know the tools for the last recession to fight this one and this recession makes no sense like i will never be on board you know i had this little argument with you and brad gerstner like i think there was every reason for team transitory to believe that inflation was transitory because the externalities of a pandemic induced shortage of goods had never been seen before like there was no way to say for sure and again there are still boats i can still see cargo ships stuck in the port SPEAKER_00: of oakland outside my window and now we risk like all the stuff collapsing because maniacs like me are SPEAKER_22: cutting their own trees down people are making their own cold brew and i think everybody's going to go like into full austerity measures and they're going to realize you know what starting measures feel pretty kind of cool it's kind of cool to cut your own tree down it's kind of cool to stay at home and make some food it's kind of cool to do a staycation or maybe go in an rv or whatever it is SPEAKER_66: you know like it's really funny because the way you're describing austerity measures sounds exactly like SPEAKER_04: how i like lived to the pandemic which to be honest i kind of yeah yeah i kind of miss it oh did i miss that SPEAKER_154: trip to europe all that much maybe not right but i learned how to grow chard or whatever you know SPEAKER_11: i don't know yeah and you got it was kind of cool let me tell you about house of macadamias yes this brand has a special place in my heart because the founders carmen and brandon well they're twist listeners they've been listening to this podcast and they told me that they got inspired to start this company after listening to this very pod and reading my book angel in fact their first angel investment wound up hitting it big and they used the returns on that angel investment to start a nut SPEAKER_99: business these people are crazy they're nuts they started a macadamia nut business and it is delicious you can see the graphics on the screen all nuts are not created equal peanuts almonds cashews walnuts those are you know they're good nuts but macadamias are the elite great nuts they're higher in omega-7s and that's been linked to fat loss and natural collagen they have more healthy fats they have less carbs and every product is vegan keto and paleo i love these i love the dark chocolate covered ones that's just me they have beautiful macadamia bars buy some of these keep them in your desk draw that's a healthy snack for you to have they also have some zesty spicy ones if you have in that kind of a day i like to do that if i have like a nice iced tea and i can uh pair it with a zesty salsa dry roasted so here is your call to action support a founder and have great macadamia nuts that are healthy and delicious house of macadamias.com twist house of macadamias.com twist right now you get 20 off by using the promo code twist 20. that's right 20 off house of macadamias.com twist hey speaking of SPEAKER_78: growing charge i hate to jump all over the place but i saw this noma story we didn't get to hang out for a while so i know i just feel like this noma story is kind of just become like a great debate here SPEAKER_04: on the show have you ever been to noma and i went to gust which they call mini noma in copenhagen SPEAKER_51: because i couldn't get into noma but i feel like i went to the like indie band version yes of noma David Friedberg: so i i've been to noma twice my guy tyler uh who was based out of sweden for a bit and did the sweden SPEAKER_00: uh the tech meet up there became friends with this guy and so for my birthday my friend tyler took me to noma and you know like eight of us whatever it's an incredible experience for people who don't know SPEAKER_99: this is the height of fine dining there are it's the best restaurant in the world best restaurant SPEAKER_22: in the world basically and it's not for the best restaurant in the world you would think like the best hotel in the world the amon if you want to stay at amangiri that fancy looking place everybody SPEAKER_93: takes the pictures of uh on instagram i think that's 2500 a night my beloved amon hotel tokyo when i went was 1200 or 1400 at night now with the exchange rate uh it's at 600 to 800 it's pretty SPEAKER_00: good deal uh and i'll be going there in march but um it's only 500 bucks a person to go to noma so SPEAKER_262: it's within reach let's just say and anybody who wanted to go there i mean if you're a doordash driver you could work you know they make on average 36 bucks an hour so you could work two shifts you SPEAKER_241: still gotta fly to let's like you still gotta fly to copenhagen and stay there and whatever SPEAKER_265: but as as you know like if you're talking about the literal like it has been it has been deemed Jason Calacanis: the best restaurant in the world for what over a decade it dethroned the french laundry it has three michelin stars like it is top so yeah for 500 a person that is considered quite accessible for SPEAKER_22: this level it's accessible for what you know being the best in the world like a bugatti's uh whatever million or two million dollar cars that's the best in the world and uh you know prius is 30 or 40. Jason Calacanis: anyway they are shutting down yeah at the height of their success yeah like we and and we're just going to acknowledge now that no this is not a tech story exactly but it is right on target with the labor conversation that we've been having non-stop and we just blew up our group chat over this this SPEAKER_277: morning so i read the story and i predicted what the story would be about in the group chat and then listened to it so like i did exactly what twitter tells you not to do are you sure you want to read the story before you retweet it i'm like nope i have an opinion based on the headline so my opinion based SPEAKER_22: on the headline was this is a generational labor story based on the fact that people uh in fine dining SPEAKER_99: work for free and sure enough i was exactly right um people go there's 200 people working there i don't know how many seats they have but when i was there i watched like at least 12 people around the table SPEAKER_69: preparing our meal because you could see it like you walk through the kitchen they greet you SPEAKER_99: and they're like putting flowers that have been painstakingly pruned you know one out of 300 you know flowers they go pick in the woods people put in 12 16 hour days it's it's like working on a startup they don't get paid it's internships right free internships is that they're called stages Jason Calacanis: it's actually what you do yeah when you're a chef you when you your internship is called a stage spelled like stage but you do these stages i have a lot of chefs in my life so this stage is so valuable SPEAKER_99: in the world that if you were to do it for a year you could go work at any restaurant in the world yeah in fact the tv showed the bear which we all love did you watch the bear by the way i don't know SPEAKER_287: oh yeah love love the bear the bear he is comes to take his brother's steak shop in philadelphia SPEAKER_99: where chicago whatever it is and he comes back from noma with this noma cookbook and of course his number two right in the in the bear gets the noma cookbook it starts going through it i think they literally show the noma cookbook yeah i had totally forgotten that it was noma but you're totally right SPEAKER_24: yeah i am pretty sure somebody correct me if i'm wrong if not they allude to it being noma but i'm SPEAKER_290: pretty sure it's like pretty clearly noma like when yeah yeah no that's a great catch yeah so it's SPEAKER_22: pretty clear that he studied abroad and and you know if you just type in noma and you pull up a David Friedberg: picture from anywhere on google you'll see like 10 of these people now these people uh at some point have children or a mortgage and they don't want an internship they want a job and it turns out at 500 bucks if you do 100 covers a night even at 100 bucks that's 50 grand even come close yeah it can't even come close but like you know you watch these uh folks that's the number of people work at noma SPEAKER_171: it's bonkers and the the story noted by the way that uh the intern program the stage program Jason Calacanis: supplies 20 to 30 full-time workers stagiaires 20 to 30 unpaid employees who are literally and then you come there as one of these unpaid interns and they're you know they taught they quote this woman in the story who went there and she's like yeah i didn't i barely even took my knife out she didn't go and learn how to cook she learned how to make a little beetle out of fruit leather and she spent her entire time they're doing that but so like nothing this is so fascinating as a labor story because everybody like if you've ever i mean if you've ever even read anthony bourdain right like the thing about the restaurant industry is that it's abusive brutal there it's full of sexual harassment it pays nothing this stage thing is like the biggest scam going and has been for decades because you don't just do one you do like 10. like you're expected to spend maybe up to two years going around and staging for free at various restaurants but what is so interesting as a labor like a generational revolution story is that like all this has been coming out renee redzepi who is the the chef of noma there have been accusations about this treatment and this abuse and this bullying and whatever that have stuck right that it's like all of a sudden all these industries that we were just like yeah they're totally abusive it's awful yeah wouldn't want to do it all right and now it's like it turns out maybe you can't SPEAKER_25: freaking do that and like workers are not having it anymore and that's where it becomes generational SPEAKER_157: um and i'll take the other side of it if i may i'll play a little devil's advocate here oh i'm not SPEAKER_302: saying that's the side is that the side no no no the story says yeah i mean the there is a side here that like this is uh abuse of the people put it aside obviously drug abuse physical abuse sexual abuse and that stuff i'm talking about like is it abusive to work for free or for almost nothing SPEAKER_305: i'll take the other side of that for 60 now okay go for it feel free i if he had charged the mistake he SPEAKER_11: made was he should have done what nyu does nyu charges 80 000 a year they charge 350 000 for an undergraduate degree and people uh laud them and these nyu professors out here like on cnbc telling SPEAKER_22: you like valuations and ethics and morals all these dipshit nyu professors are telling everybody how to live their lives while they are scamming students out of 350 000 undergrad for a degree that will never SPEAKER_311: make them more than 50 or 60 or 70 000 so here's what the noma chef should have done David Friedberg: no i'm not it's not i'm talking about the guy on cnbc i'm not actually wasn't not him i forgot SPEAKER_313: that uh uh not him he's of the same opinion he's not allowed on cbt protocol takes SPEAKER_69: grand so like there's a guy on cnbc all the time um who just attacks tech companies like relentlessly from nyu and they're just like this guy's a genius i'm like 350 for a degree a business undergraduate degree yeah okay sure um so if this guy just charged people ten thousand dollars every SPEAKER_22: six months and then gave them a degree and papered them and let them work on the highest end stuff on the line and did you know like whatever i don't know an eight semester four year or four you know make it three semesters a year whatever it is charge people a reasonable amount and then uh let them come you know as part of it they you know have like more of a fellowship more of a mentoring kind of situation there will be no problem so a lot of this is how you frame stuff and this whole thing happened in the magazine industry when i was coming up if you wanted to work at vogue or new yorker they were massively abusive with the free internships and all the rich kids from the ivy league schools parents paid for their apartment or gave them their pied de terre in uh manhattan you know these were friends of mine like i'm like how do you do this and they're like oh you know my parents are helping me like your parents gave you an apartment and they give you three thousand dollars a month in living expenses SPEAKER_51: holy cow my dad gave me a kick in the ass and say yeah exactly that's it tells you why every strata of SPEAKER_311: society stays the same strata exactly and so if you wanted to work at vogue or you wanted to work at David Friedberg: new yorker or vanity fair you just had to be willing to do a year uh for free basically going and getting people coffee and returning manhattan yeah that's it that was before manhattan yeah and the same thing in the movie industry the people complaining need to take a chill pill and say i'm going to do this you have to have autonomy in your life you have to have agency in your life if you're going to do the noma SPEAKER_177: thing wait i'm sorry go back a second who needs to take a chill pill the people complaining who are SPEAKER_25: working 16 hours a day and then whining about it the ones who are working 16 hours a day for free SPEAKER_177: yes they need to reframe what they're doing and just say i'm going to do this for six months i am going to SPEAKER_99: use noma use their name for six months i'm going to look at it as like tuition instead of going to the culinary institute of america which also is probably a hundred grand i'll go work there for minimum wage for free whatever it is for six months i get the noma thing i take a bunch of pictures i write a blog about it i document everything i write a book sell an ebook whatever make a bunch of tick tocks release them after i leave and um i use noma to get my next gig or start my own restaurant or whatever which a lot of people have done but if you're going to go there and stay for six years or two years then you're opting into being abused you have to look at it as a stepping stone so that's SPEAKER_327: what i don't like about this because it is kind of cool that they do allow people to intern there who Jason Calacanis: aren't qualified now nobody knows to enter i don't think you can i think you have had i think you have to have done multiple free abusive stages at multiple other restaurants even get into noma okay i will say uh there is 100 validity to your take and that has been that has literally been the attitude this whole time right the attitude has been if you can hack it and you want to do it come here because this is the deal yeah and that you can keep that going as long as you can keep the doors open and what renee ritzepi is finding and that's the jet this is the revolution right like what renee ritzepi and others are finding is that nobody wants to take that deal anymore ah like that has been the deal and everybody understood the deal and now all of a sudden you do in fact have a generation of workers and by the way the age range of that generation is bleeding into all of them but you have this generational revolt and it's it's fed by like it's so interesting how like historically speaking everything comes down to income inequality if it gets too bad like income inequality is a reality it's a power law situation if it gets too extreme there is always revolution and so the roots of all of this SPEAKER_47: are that people are feeling at the bottom end of the spectrum that the deal doesn't work for them anymore they're like look we made this deal we know that some of you are going to get really rich and most of us are not but if we're okay and we can survive and we can pay the mortgage and we can have a good life fine we will not revolt but when it gets too extreme and too abusive on either end like yeah there's always a revolt and now you're seeing this revolt and people are just like cool i understand you i understand all the words coming out of your mouth you're telling me that's the deal and i can SPEAKER_340: take it if i want to i don't want to yeah so then all of a sudden noma the ballet like startups right all of a sudden everything that has relied on people's willingness to take the deal is starting to crumble SPEAKER_302: and it's going to be crazy a non-market deal a lower than market deal somewhere between zero and SPEAKER_262: you know whatever 25 less than market right that's where people would start to feel at 15 to 25 so yeah SPEAKER_343: i think that might be part of the cultural revolution going on here all right everybody i wanted to take a SPEAKER_344: moment to thank our friends at microsoft today we have lahini aranachalam with us she's a senior director of platform and growth at microsoft and she actually created the microsoft for startups SPEAKER_347: founders hub welcome to the show thanks jason thanks for having me so tell us a little bit about SPEAKER_346: the founders hub why did you create it yeah so we built founders hub based on the feedback from hundreds of founders we spoke to founders at all stages of their journey so ones that were just starting out with an idea to those that had actually built successful companies just about better understand what their challenges and pain points were as they were building their businesses and we found three challenges kind of rang true regardless of where they were in their journey the first one was that founders need access to coaching and advice to get to that next milestone the next is that they need to accelerate the time it takes to actually build an mvp or their second product or their next set of features and of course founders need capital to actually keep them afloat as they continue to build their companies and so microsoft for startups founders hub is a digital platform built to help founders with these challenges thanks so much lahini if you SPEAKER_344: would like to check it out go to the microsoft for startups founders hub and they have no fundraising SPEAKER_11: requirements open to anybody if you're a founder they want to they want to support you takes five minutes to apply and startups can get up to six figures of benefits instantly sign up for the microsoft for startups founders hub today at aka dot ms slash this week in startups i think a lot of it has to SPEAKER_302: do with how rich people's parents are there's this big massive wealth that's about to be transferred SPEAKER_00: from parents or boomers uh whose homes and 401ks even despite this you know blip on the radar here SPEAKER_69: in this recession generally speaking they have so much money they can float their kids and they had a smaller number of kids they didn't have five kids they had one or two and so you have one or two SPEAKER_302: kids you got millions of dollars in the bank you're dying in 15 years you're like you know what i'm gonna give my kid a credit card i'm gonna give them you know i got this house that's worth 3 million Jason Calacanis: they're eventually gonna get it you know and i mean that's a big that's a huge part of the income inequality story too is that actually as we were just saying like the stratas always stay the same like generational wealth is now baked in so if you're in that upper end of the spectrum you're gonna SPEAKER_04: stay there and you don't have to stress and you don't have to work and if you're not you're probably feeling the reason people are not taking these deals anymore is you're probably feeling like Jason Calacanis: you're never getting out but also you're totally right like if you're if you're the kid whose parents could afford to send you to culinary school and you had all of those opportunities and then you're just like no i'm absolutely not gonna go get my ass kicked 16 hours a day by this nut job SPEAKER_00: yeah i had played with this at a moment in time because so many people want to come work for me SPEAKER_69: and learn to be venture capitalists right and i was like and i get no less than 20 emails per week i'll come work for you for free i know that email that means i have to mentor you i have to take all this time you're going to bounce the second you get an offer like no it's not worth it right so we don't do internships everybody's like oh every new person who comes to work with hey let's do internships i'm like nope let's hire world-class people or develop world-class talent either we're hiring steph curry and draymond or we're developing steph curry and draymond that's just my philosophy either we're gonna i guess who i mean okay they recruited kevin durant or they developed i think they developed right staff clay and uh draymond so that's just my approach to it like i don't want to deal with this i don't want somebody resenting me etc but i had people who said like the oakland ace SPEAKER_279: okay yeah sure moneyball uh yeah and i had people offer me all the time like hey i'll pay you to take SPEAKER_00: my child and teach them and give them an internship and i was like well that's interesting then i was SPEAKER_69: like i still don't want to deal with it you know and then there's like this kauffman fellows i found out the kauffman fellows i'm sure it's a nice group of people i i don't know if it's a for-profit David Friedberg: or a non-profit you've heard of this group kauffman fellows i know here in the bay area it's basically SPEAKER_323: like you get a fellowship and then you learn how to be oh for bc venture capital and i was like oh my SPEAKER_279: god that's so charming how great uh how does one uh you know i'll i'll refer people to the kauffman fellows um you know who are uh you know looking to break into vc oh my god you know this is so generous SPEAKER_376: of them to uh you know provide this service uh you know you two years here in this holistic program SPEAKER_377: do they pay it's mad expensive of course it is it's it's like the greatest dragon i've ever seen SPEAKER_04: yeah i mean it's just an mba it's just like a different yeah hold on a second i gotta pull you SPEAKER_97: up it's a okay hold on guess don't look molly i'm not looking okay tuition for the two-year program SPEAKER_206: is that part-time program i guess or you actually know you can't work during it this is a two-year SPEAKER_210: program um yeah god it must be it rendered you speechless is it more or less than a suburban SPEAKER_388: the base model or the grand model with every single feature that i got SPEAKER_04: uh i'm gonna say it's as much as the grand model suburban is it 150 80 80k 80k i think mine was like SPEAKER_391: 85. that's one of the reasons i wanted to buy a suburban very reasonable pretty reasonable like a SPEAKER_66: car yeah damn like uh it's 80 000 kauffman fellows is 80 000 and you don't get a degree at the end of that so you pay 80 000 for this two-year program and you get in warm introductions you get a network SPEAKER_99: often falls is a lifelong network for growth acceleration and connection to capital after graduation i mean this is just you just pay for a fraternity basically basically yeah i mean this SPEAKER_97: kind of sucks i'll be totally honest that's the there's your program for you but i was just looking at like what you get for it and i don't want to make this like a i don't want to dog them too much but SPEAKER_99: i always meet these folks because the kauffman fellows can't stop emailing me um fascinating so the SPEAKER_302: whole idea is they figure it out you know how it's hard to break into venture capital SPEAKER_24: mm-hmm coffin fellows like yeah yeah it's really hard you know what give us eighty thousand dollars we'll show you how to break it and we'll well yeah it's just that's the fast pass at disneyland this is beyond the fast pass i don't know what this is i mean this feels like more like SPEAKER_354: coffin fellows feels more to me like um like you just know like uh when that celebrity like painted the picture of the person on lacrosse and had somebody take their sats for them SPEAKER_403: we got varsity blues feels like a little bit more like uh you just i don't want to say that SPEAKER_11: i mean i'm sure these people after graduation your time as a coffin fellow has only just began building necessary relations and conducting business with integrity investing confidently are all a result of a reliable network that becomes your most valuable resource our network is a deep pool of knowledge knowledge on deal flow diligence and follow-on financing but comes with the additional benefit of veteran experts helping you develop strong communication skills navigate fundraising building customer partner troubleshooting you know what i should do this SPEAKER_51: this seems like a really good grip i was just thinking it was like don't i'm like don't um diss it too much because one maybe they would pay us to start teaching stuff or we should just launch SPEAKER_410: it i do university already i teach people maybe i should do my own venture version of this i think that's not a terrible idea eight thousand dollars yeah and then just be like you meet everybody SPEAKER_01: i mean i teach angel university it's like it goes to charity i think we charge 300 or 500 a seat and then the profits go to charity um founder versus free anyway SPEAKER_419: we need to start this as a profit center for sure SPEAKER_143: did you know more of that charity in the age of austerity in the age of austerity yeah we'll get some revenue streams going here yeah all right there you go a network 27 years in the making SPEAKER_421: eighty thousand dollars fascinating guys you don't have to pay no one should do no and i think this SPEAKER_146: is what noma's doing well yeah now what no one's gonna do yeah is that it's going to because they can't get anybody to go and work there for free for school it's a school anymore it's a school so Jason Calacanis: now they're just going to make it a teaching which actually is what um the the other remember the previous best restaurant in the world el bui was in barcelona or it was i'm sorry it was in san sebastian or somewhere somewhere in spain those two brothers then started like a teaching university instead and then they would do these pop-up restaurants and i went to one in barcelona called 40 40 degrees i heard about this oh my god 40 degrees is probably the best eating experience i ever had in my life and it was one of those el bui brothers and it was only there for like a year or something and so renee redzepi is going to do the exact same thing started as turn noma into a place where people will come to kind of learn but actually maybe learn and then they'll have these SPEAKER_122: pop-up things yeah he made no money from doing this reseppy red that's the other crazy thing a Jason Calacanis: full-time food laboratory is what it's going to become and then it'll feed the e-commerce operation called noma projects the dining rooms will be open for periodic pop-ups and yeah he made no money on it because he didn't charge enough i thought that's where you were going to go earlier which is like maybe he should have charged more for noma because this gets back to that minimum wage conversation we were having like restaurants are gonna have to cost more you can't serve a meal like this for 500 bucks SPEAKER_69: if you have i was actually trying to do back of the envelope math let's say 10 people worked on this SPEAKER_00: birthday party's meals which i think was probably about right it's like one to one uh but maybe it's like two to one because of all the prep work so let's say like i don't know i'm trying to think 10 SPEAKER_99: people 10 hour shift 100 hours going to the meal at you know 20 an hour whatever i mean because in copenhagen minimum wage is much higher too yeah maybe it's 25 i don't know so what's some of the highest in the world so you know now you're talking like it should probably be priced at a thousand or two Jason Calacanis: thousand a person it should be right and because that would i say only worked because 20 or 30 of the people working there at any given time were not being paid right so the only way you're ever gonna get ever this level of food at this price ever again in the future against if this revolution SPEAKER_00: holds is robots yeah or just you know maybe lowering the standards so the idea of like you know people have to like spend seven hours prepping this stuff maybe they have to spend two hours prepping it it's just not going to be as outrageous i don't know if people will tell the difference i mean i don't mean Jason Calacanis: to be super controversial but like the history of capitalism throughout all of human history is that like you can only get stuff for less than it costs to make that stuff if you figure out a SPEAKER_51: hack for unpaid labor and historically those hacks have always been pretty bad i mean automation helps SPEAKER_66: along the way uh you know that's what i'm saying robots is the only like right you can never have SPEAKER_171: a 500 noma dinner again if you have fair labor practices without robots robots yeah yeah or yeah you SPEAKER_302: gotta i also wonder if like some of the dishes they did if the people who were eating it would even know the difference if they spent half as much time and i think the answer is half of the effort is for SPEAKER_443: the chefs like i think at least half of it is for them to feel like they did something elite yeah Jason Calacanis: that's kind of honestly why i like i sort of swore off fine dining after i went to like uh atelier in san francisco which you know was amazing or whatever but i was like you know what kind of tired of like as a cons as a customer i'm also kind of tired of just being like this is your vision SPEAKER_04: yeah and i'm just here for you to force it upon me if you will right it's just like okay SPEAKER_69: hours also it's a little too much time i like that yeah i like an omakasa if it's like 10 dishes or less like i can do that at a japanese restaurant but when you get to fine dining and it gets to like SPEAKER_452: the 16th dish i feel like you gotta wheel me out of the place it's just like christopher tenet in the SPEAKER_04: whole right it's just like it's it's like these artists being like this is my singular vision and i'll do whatever i have to do to the people and the customers in order to achieve it and i'm like SPEAKER_455: oh okay i'm not interested i guess we should touch on this uh chat gpt taking over the world opening SPEAKER_00: ai's relationship with microsoft keeps we keep turning over cards there you know we had uh i guess last week we talked a little bit about my prediction that like this would find its way into search SPEAKER_99: and obviously a lot of startups are being built around seo copywriting journalism anything to do with writing or images uh you know uh this kind of derivative ai i like to call it derivative ai because i think they're building things derivatively off of other people's work so i'm going to dub it SPEAKER_157: derivative ai interesting what are they calling it there's another word for this ai SPEAKER_99: generative generative i'm going to call it derivative i don't like i don't like to rip i don't like generative because i don't think they're generating the idea i think it's derivative ai so let's just call it what it is making derivative works based on other people's innovation interesting SPEAKER_460: virtue signaling there jacob oh now you're trying to paint me i'm just trying to protect the artist here Jason Calacanis: generative ai that's your virtue i'm not saying it's negative i'm just saying as a literal as a a couple of nouns that go together that describe and turn into an adjective um it is that i think what we're really honing in though is we are officially in bubble watch when it comes to these tools like the funding for them and then also the promise where you know where is this all going to go and how transformative is it going to be microsoft appears to be starting to at least according to the information some other reporting like bet the farm on integrating this into word powerpoint outlook exactly all of the office suites like basically next generation clippy like clippy goes SPEAKER_163: from like johnny number five yeah to hal wizards were wizards were a big part of uh you know using SPEAKER_00: these right you had galleries hey you're starting a new project you don't have to start from a blank SPEAKER_163: slate here is a birthday card here is a you know uh a sales deck whatever but totally yeah i like this degenerative ai so generative ai derivative ai you put it together degenerative degenerate ai degenerative ai SPEAKER_157: is a dj ai yeah dj ai like the like letter kenny makes sense though somebody over the weekend was SPEAKER_00: pitching me publicly on twitter a founder who had created a tool which allows you to um it puts in your drafts folders a response to every email that you get and so you just sit in your drafts folder and SPEAKER_302: you just you start on third base just like i have uh remember i was using like text expander tools and SPEAKER_00: there's one built into ios i think they call it text replacement in ios where you you know you type in like a couple of characters and it expands it to be your address it expands it to be yes we don't sorry we don't invest in uh biotech uh here are some resources for you so you can basically create these little uh cut cut and paste quick keys to you know reply to people quicker but this would do it in the background and then eventually obviously we'll start we'll just start replying to people and then we'll apply back to us and it'll just be our ai's having conversations email triage or is one SPEAKER_472: um a bunch of these are coming out so it makes sense i don't want and you saw it also with um notion SPEAKER_473: theirs was very cool you did a segment on that on the show that was very cool and then freaking crazy SPEAKER_00: gmail finishing the sentence um right you know as you go like here's your next three words hit the SPEAKER_171: right arrow key if you want to accept and like you typed a date do you want to turn this into a Jason Calacanis: calendar invite and all of those things yeah yeah um and then that that turns into do you want to put your phone on do not disturb because it looks like you created account so all of these tools are getting more and more common you're seeing investors jump at it in 2022 according to pitch book investors pumped at least 1.37 billion dollars into generative slash derivative slash dgen ai companies across 78 deals that was almost as much as they had invested in the previous five years combined and all of this leads us directly into our startup of the day actually yeah which is uh SPEAKER_230: which is a company called i'm assuming it's pronounced zet hub it's x-e-t-h-u-b like github Jason Calacanis: but zet and in fact it is meant to be a github github for intelligent tools so it was founded by a couple of former apple engineers who were actually part of an aqua hire apple bought their company for 200 million dollars and it was a machine learning company and they have since left and raised seven and a half million dollars in a seed round and launched a public beta of this company that basically provides data storage for ai for people who want to build these intelligent tools so the idea is you've got all the things that we just described like the autocomplete in google in gmail and you've got ios being like let me put your phone on do not disturb but you also have a bunch of developers who want to build those tools for every other company and the key to building any ai tool is data and data sets and access to data sets but if you're a single developer or like a tiny little company you don't have either you can't afford or you can't store primarily store a terabyte one to a hundred terabytes worth of data is what it takes to train any of these models so zed hub comes along and is like all right we're a data repository we will store all of these data sets and let you access them but and you know other companies do this so it's like aws but for data storage but they'll also let you contribute and collaborate on the data sets and then provide data governance like tracking of what changes have been made within the data sets to make sure that it doesn't get corrupted because your ai tool is only as good as your data so there's this like really interesting plumbing layer where companies are starting to be able to raise and create solutions around SPEAKER_419: offering you the the fundamental layer that you can build on i think it sounds like a great idea um SPEAKER_00: it's genius i think we're going to hit commodification so while chat gpt is raising at 29 billion dollars my belief is open source is going to win this and i believe open source needs to win this if you look at the top open source projects on github they're all in this uh category tensorflow and stability and yeah uh dolly these are all open source projects and remember open ai was an open source non-profit and then flipped to a for-profit now they got 29 billion the insiders i understand this tender off 300 million is not new shares it's existing shares so it's 300 million being sold by people um and this is my SPEAKER_99: unpopular belief of the day open source uh community uh is going to win this they need to win it and um i think the value is going to be in the data sets and then people are going to just fork all of these public models and keep contributing to them therefore the idea that like right now open ai and chat gpt allows SPEAKER_443: you to do this it's going to be like yeah there's five ways to do that and everybody's trading on the SPEAKER_04: same data and can you bring me yeah producers can you bring up the reply to jason's tweet right there oh yeah did anybody reply yeah that first reply uh-huh is kind of everything it's everything that Jason Calacanis: you're saying but it's everything that zethub just launched yeah the first reply the protocol that incentivizes structured and labeled data ml ready data to be open and tradable probably wins the ai race that sounds to me and listen i could be wrong right because these are all complicated topics but it kind of sounds to me that that's what literally launched today is that exact repository for structured and labeled data and it has data governance built in it tracks when you make changes to the data um and SPEAKER_47: then it allows for open collaboration seems to be kind of the key like they just provided the open sort of the github cement layer yeah for all building all these tools it's this is now going to become a SPEAKER_93: quick discussion we're going to move from the discussion of who has the tech to who has the rights and um SPEAKER_99: i'll just pass you a tweet here uh stability um you know which i guess is really chat gpt's main or opening eyes main competitor they're doing this in a more open source kind of way i think they have a chance at winning the day here because they are allowing people to already opt out so you can as an artist i think opt out how attribution and opting out works who knows like uh chamat said like you know SPEAKER_00: we have a robot.txt for google searching we could have an ai.txt attached to every image attached to every song attached to everything and if you want to ingest it you have to read that and respect it and people will just say you know you can use this for non-commercial ai use you can use it for Chamath Palihapitiya: commercial ai use you can use it if you uh give me a citation so if you in some way use my image in SPEAKER_302: this derivative work i want credit for and i want to link back to the original now how you do that and what percentage of the ai's mind and decision making went into you know if it took a thousand images SPEAKER_69: or a million images you're supposed to put a million links into the final product that's going SPEAKER_05: to be pretty hard to do right but we're quickly going to move from the holy cow phase to the uh did you have the right to do this phase and uh who owns the data set which means i think that's what i'm Jason Calacanis: saying that's why i think things like this zet hub company are so important like this is at the data is everything or the data are everything depending on how much of a nerd you really are yeah a bunch of data scientists just got really irritated with me for that i've given a couple um i've spoken a couple times to the data science master's program at notre dame and i always open by asking them if they say if it's plural or not and they're always like just don't bring it up anyway SPEAKER_230: the data sets are literally everything here so the ability to be able to do this collaboration to be Jason Calacanis: able to do this data governance and labeling is how you will get to attribution but also how you will get to trustworthy generative ai whether you know like you'll be able to say this is a legit data set or not this one's basically pirated over here yeah put it in the bin and people will still access that SPEAKER_05: has anybody caught chat gpt using their information so you know when we did like a lot of these tests SPEAKER_302: chat gpt were the first or second result in google right we never connected the two but is there some long tail piece of content like how to do a party plan for you know x y and z and x y and z are you know incredibly niche things and it pulled from one document and then you compared the result of chat gpt's to that one document so it was like hey i want to do like a crossover greek and japanese christmas dinner and chat gpt was like yeah well here's how you do like your lamb sushi uh with some christmas you know uh you know uh presentation you'd be like okay where did that come from has anybody linked the two i haven't heard of that yet and i wonder if they built into chat gpt um the ability to say if this is using less than 100 sources don't return a response so they don't get caught cribbing somebody's Jason Calacanis: information i mean it seems to me that if if this if these tools that are being built are powerful enough to generate this information they're 100 powerful enough to cross-check the information yeah we're going to be having a long conversation about the definition of derivative and by long i mean probably the next 10 years but also i did want to note that i saw um like friday i guess let's say that new york city's department of education has already banned gpt from public school devices and networks yeah exactly like good luck with that but that again when we think about like when we think about this kind of growing bubble it's going to be the various shovel builders like the the data set provide reliable data set providers and also utility so like someone's going to build a chat gpt check checker SPEAKER_157: check for chat gpt in your home whatever i have some inside information uh i was invited to the test SPEAKER_00: flight uh this is breaking news of chat gpt it turns out chat gpt has an ios app that they're testing and i just sent you a screenshot of it to our group chat uh and here it is so as you can see i was just asking it like bill gurley's height and it keeps a history of it so this is no i'm not joking um somebody from the team over there sent it to me so for the first time you're seeing they they have a uh i was asking bill gurley site and then i was i asked it to write a short play about like people debating uh the biggest political issues and i did that while i was taping uh all in and uh what's SPEAKER_11: interesting about this is it keeps your threads as you can see you know it makes history here and you SPEAKER_00: can start to see like how this app would be very powerful uh over time because you can search your threads yeah we're pretty crazy now it doesn't have a um doesn't have an audio interface yet you know SPEAKER_472: except for the one built into ios but you could start to imagine um this having you know more and more features that would be very interesting everyone should read to to see what the future is going Jason Calacanis: to look like um diamond age by neil stevenson it's a an old book of his but it's called the diamond age or a young lady's illustrated primer and there's this interactive device that this girl is using throughout this book that's her uh young lady's illustrated primer and it's basically i think it's it's represented as like a book but it's literally it's this it's like just chat gpt in her pocket except that it's an agent if you will like a you know interface for the entire world it's super i mean this is like some of his most awesome sci-fi imaginings but i've been fascinated i think came out in like the mid 90s right 95 i've been fascinated ever since i read it with this idea of just having this interactive agent with you all the time to be your friend and to give you information and to give you advice and to tell you everything you need to know and like this is that you have it you have it as a freaking chat thread like a group message it's pretty crazy um check this out SPEAKER_05: let me see i am right here people i'm also sending to our little group chat uh a video i just made i did a screen i should have done a screen recording but this is like when you can start to see how powerful this is versus google when you have SPEAKER_421: it on your mobile phone um check this bad boy out i'm uploading it right now so i just did a search um SPEAKER_00: what are the best restaurants in yawnville and then uh it gave me like a pretty good list and then i asked it well which one has the best duck and it gave me a pretty nice response so here SPEAKER_05: i am asking it you can see i just typed that in you hit play one of the best restaurants in yawnville and uh boom there it is it's gonna just start now you can imagine it reading this to me molly SPEAKER_526: while i was driving through yawnville exactly the other week it would be your young ladies illustrated SPEAKER_99: primer yeah and then uh i asked a follow-up question then you could imagine the next step being okay can you tell me which one of these restaurants has availability you know in the next three days SPEAKER_404: between 5 30 and 7 30 for a table of four right oh and ps make an appointment which the google assistant SPEAKER_51: can already do yes so i've never done i just recently used that to make a restaurant appointment Jason Calacanis: and it does the thing where it calls and sounds like a human yes yes you know i saw that called SPEAKER_04: and made a reservation and then sent us an email confirmation i was like for restaurants that don't SPEAKER_456: take reservations online yeah so this is a brave new world congratulations i you know that i have to say SPEAKER_99: like these valuations make no sense um so i i was talking to some insiders of why would somebody pay 29 billion for open ai shares now i'm not saying open ai is not going to become worth a trillion dollars maybe maybe they become the google amazon of the space it's possible but at this point like making that bet seems incredibly crazy and you know who's making the bet jared kushner's saudi backed firm so the saudis gave jared kushner a couple of billion dollars and then he's buying insiders shares SPEAKER_287: i mean i hate to be cynical but it's not exactly the smart money yeah but founders fund is so there's SPEAKER_04: that yeah well except that yes founders fund is the saudis are if that's true not smart money Jason Calacanis: i'm not saying no i'm just saying like look if you want to take if you think that what you're doing is taking over the world i'm not surprised that those two entities are together on this or destabilizing SPEAKER_04: right like i mean talking like this is technology that will destabilize the existing order whether SPEAKER_230: that order is intellectual property or knowledge or higher education or lower education right like i'm Jason Calacanis: not saying it in the like lead to but well no you just said like we live in the future imagine you have SPEAKER_124: this device in your pocket it does all of that for you new york city just banned this because it is effectively invalidating teaching i don't know if i buy these are arguments everybody made about google SPEAKER_146: too i'm not saying i buy it i'm just saying if you thought that that was the potential of this Jason Calacanis: technology you would probably put any money you could behind it i kind of yeah as i said before i SPEAKER_287: think it's going to be about the data sets i think apple wins health with the watch data i think tesla SPEAKER_00: and ways when driving with their data sets right all people running ways in google maps have some amount of data all the cameras on all million teslas out there driving on the roads but you only need to SPEAKER_470: look at the chinese to know how you should manage technology the chinese because of their authoritarian SPEAKER_99: nature can do what your parents would do very parental their approach right like hey no video games during the week right hey if you want to use tick tock you can but only for a certain amount of time you got to watch math videos you can't watch people dancing around in their underwear right they banned SPEAKER_543: both of those things for kids you know what they just banned it's illegal it's a crime to do deep SPEAKER_04: fakes yeah but speaking of destabilization if you also want to destabilize everything you would start with reality which is what deep fakes do just saying this technology has a lot of potential on Jason Calacanis: both sides which is why you see china just coming out and being like yeah you can't do that cyberspace SPEAKER_05: administration of china issued a new policy friday designed to prevent the spread of fake news and misleading edited imagery and video known as deep fakes policy criminalizes the publication of such SPEAKER_00: content without proper disclosure that it is indeed fake actually if you told me that's what we were doing here in the united states i'd be like reasonable i know if you told me to label a deep SPEAKER_551: fake i'd be like yeah sure why not absolutely you just said gpt should have to label its sources SPEAKER_32: which is basically the same thing like yeah the other crazy thing is that every kind of like sci-fi Jason Calacanis: version of this is always like well you know it doesn't matter if we have rules because china's going to do whatever they want so it is kind of a weird development that china actually is like no SPEAKER_99: no no they're ahead of it they're ahead of it eu's gonna well i mean we we start to think about freedom of speech here right we start to think about we always lean towards more freedom so i this labeling to me does not diminish anybody's freedom no when you would never win that argument in some rooms i mean if you label when you go see a movie and it says based on true events uh but you know a lot of these characters are fictionalized yada yada and you know like yeah they didn't actually transcribe what monica loneski and bill clinton said to themselves each other there was no recording of what hillary clinton or you know what i'm gonna pick your iran contra like they they make drama dramatizations of the oj trial whatever some of those are based on transcripts from the trial other private conversations the average is just straight up made up move the story along and make it SPEAKER_452: entertaining do consumers really know that when they put that little thing on the start of a movie SPEAKER_404: i think they do i think we expect it's bs i think most people know that yeah this is based on people's memories from 40 years ago or they just made it up so we're headed into crazy times people SPEAKER_51: these are the big trends of 2023 um we have a lot of show under our belts already do you want to SPEAKER_171: quickly run through this uber trademark sure i got a tip today that uber trademarked uber air SPEAKER_562: and i went to the air you should say that again more slowly because that's a good one uber air air air SPEAKER_26: air as in vitals yeah it's great i mean they they've had this they had blade as an option inside SPEAKER_00: of uber right so you can order a blade helicopter inside of an uber app i believe for a long time SPEAKER_302: i know travis tested right in new york yeah and it's getting quite popular it's i think i see new yorkers once in a while um and my producers can look for a screenshot of this people will show the cost cost you know when uber surging and then compare the uber surge to the cost of a chopper and you can see here uh in this one image uber x 100 bucks the choppa 200 bucks and a black car 150 bucks but there are times when a black car and an suv is more than the chopper i think the chopper holds SPEAKER_04: six people eight people yeah takes no time on that screenshot it said five i mean i would pay an extra fifty dollars to take a chopper to jfk and not be sitting in the back of a car like SPEAKER_456: i'm gonna barf you know i had a rule against choppers uh but a friend of mine i had a rule against chainsaws but apparently we don't care about rules anymore a friend of mine is a heliski and he SPEAKER_00: owns a helicopter um and i went for a ride in it and it's incredibly safe with you know really great SPEAKER_443: you know pilots and relatively safe i wouldn't use it but i will use vtols when they start thing because SPEAKER_575: they have the redundancy in them yeah so anyway this uh trademark was filed today and so somebody just Jason Calacanis: sent it to me yeah this is a big one and it it seems to suggest and listen like trademarks are always this is a fun tea leaves kind of game that can suggest product development over time doesn't always but it could suggest that over the next few years we do start to see uber in a great vtols which it has been telegraphing and invested they're a an investor in jovi yeah uber invested in 2020 50 million dollars into the 590 million series c that jovi raised yeah and then uh and then 11 months later did another 75 million dollar investment in jovi and as part of it that deal SPEAKER_172: uber sold jovi it's uber elevate vtol business which is smart because uber air is a way better name SPEAKER_99: than uber elevate jovi market cap 2.2 billion right now uh trading at 350 a share i think it was a a spac peaked at 15 now trading at 3 35 of the spac price right all opening spac prices are 10 bucks SPEAKER_443: yeah and reed hoffman mark pincus uh were involved in it i this this is like one of those i don't want to make a j trade here live on the air i know i'm like i really do things getting a little spidey sense here yeah i think joe b has a shot at being uh the winner here the cup it's a you know SPEAKER_472: it's a smart guy who's running that company the founder is super smart cat um and yeah so you're Jason Calacanis: telling me the next time i'm a jfk or flying out of jfk i could take a helicopter for 50 more than SPEAKER_230: an uber black which i always take because i get so carsick that i have to be a big diva about a black car and it would take eight minutes as opposed to the 45 to two hours yeah 45 is more yeah yeah and SPEAKER_268: then you have to get a car from the you know uh the heliport and then if you here's the here's the SPEAKER_00: challenge for the helicopters no bags you have a backpack or a small bag i think it's like you have like a really small bag but if you have a roller or something they drive it to your hotel separately SPEAKER_171: uh really yeah how do they get their bag to the airport from the hotel they drive that also like SPEAKER_00: you'd have to send it ahead of time there's a major logistics issue when you get on the blade they take when you you kind of get driven to the blade on a little bus they take your bag and they uh will send it in a car with other bags to manhattan and that person drops off the bags at four hotels and then uh yeah you get your bag an hour later yeah but what about when you're going to the airport when SPEAKER_172: you can't afford probably the time to get that's a good question too that's a tricky one yeah oh no SPEAKER_00: no it's the same thing you go to the heliport in your car the hell i think it's like there's on there's one in the i think it's there's an east side and west side one i've flown into both actually um well i should say i've flown into the east when i lived in new york i flew into the east one uh east bay the the hudson there's a hudson river one and this east river one i flew into the east river one with mickey schulhoff who was in the ceo on the sony helicopter one time that was kind of fun from cheaterborough took like five minutes and then uh the when i lived on the west side highway in 26th street i used to look out on the heliport there uh that was on the hudson river so pretty SPEAKER_567: cool stuff another thing another headwind if you will uh tailwind sorry for um uber air and the Jason Calacanis: vtols is they're electric right because there's a lot of pushback on the sound yeah and of course right it is there i guess it's less wasteful to put five people in a helicopter and do an eight minute ride maybe than every single person in a suburban for 45 minutes to an hour but it's not an ideal climate footprint but if you can be like these are electric and they're quiet there was a whole entire new yorker piece about how irritating helicopters have gotten in new york city so like this is a bit i SPEAKER_599: mean this is just going to be like very consumer and there's that comedian guy who yells and screams SPEAKER_600: out the helicopter guys there in central park i forgot that guy's name i met him my god i knew SPEAKER_04: it must be bad when i saw the new yorker doing a think piece about helicopter sounds in new york SPEAKER_69: oh no in new york it's like these idiots want to like see central park and it's like yeah go to central park it's awesome yeah strawberry fields go to the great lawn like you know ice skating chess whatever it's a million the zoo there's a million things to do i'm like no no i want to i want to take a helicopter over i'm like i you can just look that picture up just look on the internet view of central SPEAKER_177: park from above great now you don't have to annoy everybody in manhattan and then go for a bike ride SPEAKER_602: in manhattan go for a bike or get a city bike go bike around go to the boat there's a citizen army Jason Calacanis: called stop the chop in new york this is from exactly one year ago in the new yorker the current civic mood is one of disgruntlement and then they talk about how it's all about just freaking SPEAKER_04: helicopter noise and people are losing it stop the chop isn't going to take it anymore they should SPEAKER_302: let them do it like one day a week they should charge them extra money to do it and it's just also SPEAKER_32: too dangerous to be flying helicopters over silent electric vtols like that's awesome at that point SPEAKER_410: in time that would be fine why should anybody be flying noisy chapters that's over manhattan it's so that's ridiculous they should over the hudson shore if it falls nobody gets hurt they're playing over SPEAKER_302: everybody dies come on come on if if you were just zipping over 34th street you know and you're just you know going to teeter bar i i get it right you know but to just hover over central park while SPEAKER_11: people are sitting there reading a book i mean god he said go to central park he's you know it's this SPEAKER_426: beautiful um colic and they just sit there you can bottle of wine and a loaf of french bread oh let's SPEAKER_452: go to new york and you just sit in the grass get a blanket smoke a jet well i mean whatever you're SPEAKER_99: whatever you're in i don't want that you figure out what you want to do it's like you just give SPEAKER_380: them the rope is what you do folks that you just sit here you let them go central park i can't stop SPEAKER_612: you just let them go you know go to stay away from the chocolate truffles and i'm going to say an SPEAKER_04: even more old lady thing to stop the chop people which is like i'm so over weed wait what's the SPEAKER_177: my god can somebody just like de-stink weed this is something eric adams should do i like that guy eric adams the mayor he's like a hardcore guy shouldn't he just be like i ban it and then get SPEAKER_287: into a helicopter's over central park just ban it just be like i ban it yeah that's it i'm going to go you know whatever the law is who cares just go arrest people shut them down whatever you're like a SPEAKER_610: dictator feels like it might be time to wrap feels like what was the place in too much rope what's SPEAKER_518: the place in uh where did everybody go in the mission dolores park yeah dolores park dolores park SPEAKER_302: is uh yeah central park was classy a central park you'd like you know you people would get dressed up David Friedberg: and you go sit in the grass you get a nice blanket people would actually think about what blanket they're going to bring they would buy a blanket for the moment you're not going to stop it it's SPEAKER_622: classy they class it up they would bring more rich people okay understand i mean it's a dollar wine SPEAKER_69: glass but you in central park you'd bring an actual pair of wine glasses you drink out of wine glasses because that would be classy i'm i don't know what people i'm messing with you come on dolores SPEAKER_626: park with the box wine and then just be careful that's so triggered that's all i'm saying rich guy SPEAKER_625: yeah you know you know i mean no no way chocolate truffles may get you be careful SPEAKER_185: take the kid to dolores park give me a break all right i think that's about enough for us if you know you know if you know you know be careful with the chocolate dramas i was saying like you might SPEAKER_628: you might have a little more of a grateful dead experience than to keep your shoes on SPEAKER_00: keep your shoes on don't do the chocolate truffles or else unless you bring like a dead cd with you if you got like a dead playlist by all means but you know there you go all right everybody we'll see you SPEAKER_591: tomorrow we're back babies we're back we're back it's monday literally and by the way just uh go to SPEAKER_206: jason's chainsaw services.com and uh if you need me to cut a tree down anywhere in the bay area Jason Calacanis: it's five thousand dollars um per tree all right tomorrow we'll be back uh we are we have a fun 2023 development for you this week in climate startups is now airing on tuesdays oh nice so we're gonna have like a one two bubble watch like today was the ai bubble watch tomorrow will be the climate tech bubble watch so we'll have an interview i have a story about a big funding announcement and we'll be talking to a company about recycling lithium-ion batteries like the car size kind this is a big there's a big need in the climate tech world turns out we need batteries and we need SPEAKER_171: materials for those batteries and they're trying to harvest and recycle them and and pump them out like SPEAKER_644: ready to go which is what also kind of the development here all right tomorrow everybody bye-bye bye-bye