SPEAKER_00: i know there's a lot of founders that have trouble raising capital and whoop was one of those businesses i mean there were so many years jason where it was very hard to raise capital you know that sort of period of like 2014 to call it 2018 or 19 was very hard to raise capital and the business almost went bankrupt in 2017 and 18 and then you fast forward a mere few years later and you know multi-billion dollar company and so it's just i can't understate like how important resilience is to your founders and this idea of just keep going this week in startups is brought to you

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SPEAKER_07: at notion.com twist all right everybody welcome back to the program really excited to talk about the quantified self we've all been wearing these watches and fitbits but there is one device that

SPEAKER_10: all of the quantified self people in my life will not shut up about that's the whoop so i invited will i met on the program today will you're the founder of whoop yeah and the ceo correct all right so why

SPEAKER_07: are all these quantified self people obsessed with whoop when the apple launch exists i was on fitbit forever i thought that these devices were going to get commoditized but apparently there's a reason why

SPEAKER_09: you exist and it's a high-end consumer who is obsessed with this product what is the magic behind whoop

SPEAKER_13: well we have a big focus on really helping people improve health and performance i think that the

SPEAKER_00: product does a good job taking an enormous amount of data uh in a given day we collect about a hundred times as much data as a fitbit or an apple watch when it pertains to your health so we take a lot of data and we're able to simplify it into a few key things that you need to know so that might be how recovered you are you know red yellow green are you ready to work out that might be uh how hard a workout was or what your stress is in any given moment that may be how much sleep you need for tonight to recover for tomorrow and uh we're able to quickly help our members improve their health and performance through a a pretty non-invasive wearable product i think and what it doesn't look like a

David Friedberg: watch it just looks like a strap it's a band so do people you know it doesn't have apps on it or

SPEAKER_09: anything what what's the sensor array in there and how is that sensor array different than say like

SPEAKER_00: your typical fitbit or apple watch well you make a good point in that whoop is not it doesn't have you know 100 different apps associated with it it doesn't allow you to do phone calls and you know flag an uber and all these emails and notifications it's really entirely focused on your health and as a consequence i think we've become very good at health monitoring we've become very good at telling people what they need to do next and creating a product in turn that people don't take off so one thing that while we didn't invest in say a screen or a bunch of apps and a bunch of notifications we did uh build for example a modular charger that allows you to charge whoop without ever taking it off your body so that would be an example of you know one area where we leaned

SPEAKER_07: in and other folks want a different direction what's the sensor array in there because it does seem like you're recording at either a high you said you're recording more often but is it recording at a higher

SPEAKER_09: fidelity as well i would assume that since this is made just to do quantify itself just to record health tracking you can do some things maybe some other devices can yeah that's right i mean the the

SPEAKER_00: list of physiological data points that we collect is pretty long ranging from heart rate to heart rate variability to everything about your sleep staging respiratory rate skin temperature um more as it pertains to your fitness and bmi than other products um a lot around stress and and specific performance measurements so the product itself is collecting a lot of data although i think in part what people gravitate to is the accuracy of that of those readings and then the the way that the product's able to simplify the information because just because you collect a hundred times more data doesn't mean that you should show that much information you have to figure out a way to tell

SPEAKER_09: a story back to someone and and hopefully guide them through it yeah the the apple watch i was a fitbit guy for a long time and loved it for steps heart rate sort of then i went apple watch because somewhere around version five or six it wasn't terrible but i just went for a run and or i did a hike and then a little run at the end and when i went for the running part i got none of the heart rate it just doesn't record it consistently why does the apple watch suck at that and and how do yours how does yours work better is is this like a consistent problem in terms of getting consistent heart rate

SPEAKER_29: on the wrist is just challenging or is it that they're trying to do too many things what's the

SPEAKER_00: magic there it's a combination of it being hard um and the product likely being designed for um you know a lot of different use cases and health and fitness being one of you know say a hundred of them one advantage that we had i mean it was a challenge but it's an advantage from an accuracy standpoint is that we started working with high performance athletes so you know i found a whoop in 2012 so i've seen a lot of ebbs and flows to what people might call the wearable space or the quantified health space and the initial vision was really to work with the world's best athletes athletes now um athletes are very diverse uh you know skin color um wrist size hairiness um sweat complicates things movement complicates things so we actually picked by far the hardest use case for measurement and that meant that a lot of our foundational algorithms for things like heart rate were built on a wildly diverse data set and and we needed the product to work on a wildly diverse data set in order for it to be successful and we also had a very high bar for what success looked like because we were giving feedback back to these you know superstar athletes who are used to some of this information albeit in a much worse form factor like a chest strap so so that that created i think a

SPEAKER_36: a powerful foundation and what do people use it for today what when you talk to your who is your ideal

SPEAKER_09: customer today and then what are they using it for is it is it for at least that elite athletes or is it for

SPEAKER_06: just the sort of next tier down of individuals how many people are using it now yeah it's funny the

SPEAKER_01: company's mission for 10 years now has been to unlock human performance but i think over that time

SPEAKER_00: frame our definition of human performance has widened a lot so initially human performance was winning a gold medal or an nba championship and then as we entered the consumer market it became to your point about elite athletes understanding hardcore training understanding recovery for the first time today our audience on whoop is much wider and i would say that the the key attribute that holds someone together on whoop is this notion of being motivated in your life so yes we have very motivated fitness oriented members we also have you know people who are motivated in their daily lives their careers their students their executives their lawyers um doctors and they they want to better understand their body maybe they want to understand travel maybe they're too stressed maybe they need to get more sleep and whoop is the best product for them to take their fill in the blank to the next level

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SPEAKER_09: it's an interesting business model i notice you're not trying to compete on hardware anymore so instead of buying a 600 watch or a throwaway fitbit that costs 100 bucks it's 30 bucks a month is that right you just you charge a one or two year subscription for folks talk about how you came

SPEAKER_00: to that business model yeah i think you'll appreciate this i mean in building a startup i think you want to be careful how many things you actually try to innovate around and i never thought our business model was going to be one of those innovations but it actually turned out to be one of the most important changes that we made to the company so it was 2017 that we first launched to consumers we're a 500 high-end hardware and we found that um the people who bought whoop had were staying on it for a long time um so we didn't have the same drop-off rates that that you would experience with say um maybe a fitbit or a jawbone sort of challenges that faced those businesses but we had a different problem which is that not that many people were buying whoop so we started to ask ourselves is there

SPEAKER_01: a different business model here that's more product first there were a few other things going on at that

SPEAKER_00: time one was that fitbit was a public company and a really brilliant distribution business right like year over year they were 5xing the number of units that they sold but in many ways they they won the wrong game because people would take them off and wouldn't put them back on and so they weren't as product or retention oriented as i thought they should be at the same time there was an up-and-coming business called peloton which um was you know a subscription business along with hardware and that business was getting valued at 10 or 20 times their revenue i realized whereas fitbit was getting valued at say one or two times their revenue in the public markets so do you want to grow up to look more like peloton or fitbit do you grow up to look more like a subscription business or a hardware business along with that there was this question of is a one-time fee even the right way to think about health monitoring you know if you think about someone's life it evolves a lot you know the reason that you may buy a health product or a fitness product today could be quite different in

SPEAKER_01: three months or six months or 12 months and so we thought that also the best way for a product to

SPEAKER_00: meet a customer's needs would be to evolve over time alongside that that customer so all of those

SPEAKER_01: reasons led us to whoop being a subscription and we essentially launched whoop as a subscription in may

SPEAKER_00: of 2018 and it created this pretty amazing growth engine for the company now today you can sign up for whoop in a few different ways uh one is you can buy an annual membership for 240 dollars so that's the equivalent of 20 bucks a month and to be clear the hardware is included and we make continuous software and analytics updates so you know six months ago someone signing up for whoop had no idea that they were going to get a stress monitor that was going to show them how uh their stress evolved in real time they had no idea they were going to get a strength trainer that was going to measure the muscular load of workouts but those are features that we launched in the last six months to our

SPEAKER_53: members as part of their subscription right so no one charge on that and just you get it you get it

SPEAKER_01: yeah and and so it's made us a better business too and i would say a company because it puts us in this position of constantly releasing new features and analytics at a really rapid cadence whereas products

SPEAKER_00: that we're competing against in my opinion are making a mistake of holding back their innovation for 12 months from now or 24 months from now so that you buy the next hardware right yeah so we're in a continuous cycle of improvement and they're stuck in an annual cycle of improvement and so i think it's a it's an advantage to our business and then of course we now have this recurring revenue which

SPEAKER_09: is much more attractive yeah and it's you have an idea of what you're going to make next month if the economy you know uh stalls you don't have to worry about selling some 800 device and people going ah maybe i'll push that out six months and i'll buy it later they're paying a buck a day or in the case if they buy a two-year membership or a one-year membership they're probably paying 75 cents a day seems kind of reasonable if you care about your health or if you're in any way sort of one of these optimization people now you had amazon wanted to invest in the business they decided to compete

SPEAKER_59: against you how did that wind up going it's a good setup question uh well i know the story but i want

SPEAKER_09: you to share this story because this is particularly important for i think founders who listen um and it's the majority of the audience to understand like hey it can be pretty scary when a big 800-pound gorilla decides they want to you know jump in the ring with you but you know they also don't have the

SPEAKER_62: same level of focus or maybe not the right business model so maybe you can tell that story

SPEAKER_00: well whoop was in a pretty fragile period um around 2017 uh 2018. i mean as i highlighted we were five or six years into building the company and then pivoted the business model pretty profoundly and at that point had raised tens of millions of dollars so we were vulnerable as a company and uh and that was also around the time that amazon reached out being interested um to invest and you know there's

SPEAKER_01: reasons to think that's a good thing this is a company with enormous distribution this is a company

SPEAKER_00: with aws that's a partner this is a company that you know could open doors and so we spent a lot of time with them and we shared a lot of information with them and they didn't invest in whoop and then a few years later they came out with a direct copycat of the product so much so that one of the product managers working on what was called the amazon halo like tweeted out i mean you can't make this stuff up whoop

SPEAKER_07: there it is on top of the product announcement so basically taunting you after they jerked your chain

SPEAKER_00: yeah now yeah i don't know whether that individual was involved in in the other part of it or it's the same company it's a bad look i mean yeah but it was very obvious that they copied us right uh and so i put out some sort of public information about why i thought the product would fail after reading things about it and it was it was a productive rallying cry internally too um so much so that we put on as we were building our next technology um we put on every uh circuit board don't bother copying us we will win and and and the inside joke being to us like if you actually were able to find that circuit board it was because you were taking the product apart to obviously figure out what's inside and probably copy us i love it so so that felt pretty good and then uh you know sure enough uh two years later they discontinued the product because it had failed yeah i mean the truth is big companies

SPEAKER_09: well you know they do have a lot of resources they do have distribution what they don't have is the passion or mission uh to understand why they're doing a certain thing right and so they can go off on these little adventures scares the heck out of the investors in a company the but this is why i really tell my founders to not get involved in corporate vc if i had been on your board and we've been

SPEAKER_29: approached i'd be like anything but this please because if they're interested it's for nefarious

SPEAKER_07: reasons and i literally have a company that just got offered you know a valuation that doesn't make logical sense by a strategic and i'm like what do you think they're if they have x i wouldn't say how

SPEAKER_09: many billions but if they have large amounts of billions in the bank what do you think their

SPEAKER_10: motivation is like we're not going to increase their cash position this is a company that prints money so why are they doing this like they're doing it to block other competitors from buying us and to

SPEAKER_09: get information and to you know this is the problem with strategics you know there when facebook came out with their strategic fund and they were going to meet with all the y combinator companies in some partnership i was like you're crazy if you let company in the incubator stage get meet with zuckerberg and facebook like are you not paying attention to the scorpions to tell the scorpion the

SPEAKER_00: frog um i think yeah i think that's the very like tactical advice to take from it which is to be really

SPEAKER_01: skeptical of of corporate investors the the reflection i have is just also the importance of resilience for

SPEAKER_00: a team and i think it's kind of like maybe the top two or three things that uh a startup team needs to have or company needs to have is resilience because like so much stuff happens and goes goes poorly and uh it's really how you rise to the occasion and move past it the other thing i'll just say is i know there's a lot of founders that have trouble raising capital and whoop was one of those businesses i mean there were so many years jason where it was very hard to raise capital you know that sort of period of like 2014 to call it 2018 or 19 was very hard to raise capital and the business almost went bankrupt in 2017 and 18 and then you fast forward a mere few years later and you know multi billion dollar company and so it's just i can't understate like how important resilience is to your

SPEAKER_01: founders and this idea of just keep going as with the mission and grit is what it's all about if you

SPEAKER_09: can get through those hard times and the great thing about being a subscription business is that it becomes so predictable and i think that the business model pivot i'm sure you got massive resistance to it i'm sure consumers were confused why do i have to pay this yada yada sure so maybe talk a little bit about the courage and the grit the resiliency to get through that business pivot because i'm sure investors and other folks may and probably people internally probably a little voice in your

SPEAKER_01: head was saying like is this the right thing to do well there's a theme i come back to which is if

SPEAKER_00: something's broken you have to take a pretty drastic action and if something is you know a little off okay you can iterate and test your way maybe through it but um you know we we had a bit of an existential crisis where it was like hey we've built this innovative product that people love and no one's buying it like we need to take a huge reset on this business model and this is our best shot on goal at what that business model should look like and funny enough when we when we first launched it was 30 a month and even today uh it's still anchored at a 30 monthly rate if you want to pay month to month there's cheaper options if you pay on an annual membership the other thing that that we did more recently which i think you'll find interesting is we launched this notion of free trials so you can literally sign up for whoop for free for 30 days and at the end of 30 days you can decide whether you want to be a member or you send us the device back and it's a pretty powerful um acquisition tool now for us and again it's you're entirely leading with the product first right and and so i think that's been our orientation all along is to be really very product focused yeah in the people who are using

SPEAKER_09: it how much of it is sleep i know we were early investors in calm and sleep wasn't even on the table it was just mindfulness and meditation sure but something happened in the last five or six years i don't know if it was trump and the stress trump call people cause people or then followed by you know covet and people having anxiety about that or just the general mental health and anxiety and also screens and devices doom scrolling this whole thing just got people acutely aware of sleep and how important that is so how much of and that was probably something you were not originally working on or was it and then and how much is sleep a driver of subscriptions and usage today

SPEAKER_00: well we always believed sleep was going to be core to the experience i mean the physiology paper that i wrote in 2011 was the feedback tool measuring intensity recovery in sleep so there was like this core idea that those would be the the metrics that that whoop would develop i think that there's a certain awareness that uh has gone you know mass market around one the importance of sleep and then two the technology that's now available to measure it on the on the on the awareness front i think that people have realized that it's this essentially black box third or quarter of their lives you're gonna have a whole third of your life and you're just gonna have no idea what happens during it yeah like that's sort of that's a pretty weird phenomenon when you actually stop and think about it yeah and uh and then you know you've got a lot of papers coming out about how sleep is you know lack of sleep is linked to all sorts of different disorders and you know uh early death alzheimer's all these different uh problems and on the flip side longer sleeps linked to all these positive benefits happiness etc uh and so i think that that as a drum beat has really resonated i think that people have also realized that steps was you know essentially a fake metric and so in a way steps has become the new sleep pop culture moved on from

SPEAKER_01: steps and they needed something new to talk about so sleep filled that void and and then the technology

SPEAKER_00: piece is very real i mean you know whoop built its technology off of um a psg machine which is essentially like a sleep laboratory you go to and you have nodes all over your body and the idea that you can get a similar quality of sleep staging uh from a sensor that's about the size of your thumb as you could from going to a sleep laboratory i mean that's a pretty amazing sort of moment in time for technology

SPEAKER_01: right yeah and so i think that the technology being in a place where it can now measure it is is a part of

SPEAKER_96: the reason people are are now interested in it all right everybody stephen estes is a principal at cla

Chamath Palihapitiya: clifton larson allen is a professional service provider that specializes in cpa tax consulting and wealth advisory welcome to the program stephen thank you for having me so you specialize in vc

SPEAKER_100: backed high growth startups what's an overview of how you advise these companies in the early stage and then

SPEAKER_102: what typically gets complicated as you go first and foremost i'd say cla exists to create opportunities for our clients our people in our communities and we do so by taking an industry specialized approach becoming experts in our respective industries and that really enables us to identify those kind of opportunities and spot issues before they become problems we work with a variety of companies in the tech space right from incubator all the way up to ipo and and through the exit so we we generally will come alongside them and partner with many of the early stage companies right when they come out of an incubator and then kind of expand that relationship as those companies scale and grow and we come alongside and assist for like fractional cfo work audits m a assistance international and really just kind of help those companies throughout their entire life cycle it's our promise to know you and help you

SPEAKER_104: that really enables us to transition from being just an accountant to a trusted advisor get started right

SPEAKER_100: now at claconnect.com slash tech let them know your boy jacal sent you claconnect.com slash tech to get

SPEAKER_44: started right now what have you added to the product in terms of um either new sensors or with software

SPEAKER_09: that uh has connected with users i know recovery time seems to be i was like the you have an incredible subreddit by the way that you must yeah where people are just like i drank electrolytes i'm in a sauna i did strength right and they're just like you know it's pretty obsessive yeah yeah it's quantified self people get a little obsessive that was i was talking to you we love them we love them and he had to stop using the um glucose monitor because he said he was getting too obsessive with what he would eat in terms of glucose monitoring um but what have you added in terms of either sensors or software that wasn't there in the beginning that is connected with people because i noticed these devices are now automatically detecting i don't know if you have that feature you automatically detecting what people are doing um and then you know obviously recovery time so how much of what you're doing at whoop has to do with algorithms and software versus hardware and the sensors yeah i mean the the hardware we release

SPEAKER_00: every two even in some cases three years over the company's history so a lot of that's just a foundation and it's the software and the analytics and the algorithms and increasingly the ai that's taking that to a new level and you know i mean just in the last six months we released two pretty

SPEAKER_01: innovative features leveraged on top of our hardware i'll describe the strength trainer because it ties

SPEAKER_00: this notion of hardware and software together two years ago we acquired a company called push which was a startup that built a big following in the sort of elite weightlifting community because it did a good job quantifying what lifting weights was doing to your body or your muscular load essentially if

SPEAKER_01: you bench 100 pounds versus 200 pounds versus 300 pounds or squat or whatever and do it for a certain number of reps at a certain pace this is the muscular load that we can measure on your body now historically wearables have never measured muscular load so we thought that was a pretty interesting use case so we

SPEAKER_00: acquired the company which had its own hardware product and mind you this is after we'd already launched our latest hardware and we took that suite of algorithms and software and figured out how to to map their hardware to our existing hardware and then on top of that we built a whole software package that allows you to um choose exercises and build an entire workout uh you know that would be the equivalent of you working out in a gym or in a hotel or whatever and you know entering reps and weights and all these things and uh and then we launched this feature on top of everyone's existing hardware so what for every other hardware company a thousand percent would be a new hardware launch whoop did

SPEAKER_01: as a software upgrade and a firmware upgrade just over the air and so then all of a sudden strain for

SPEAKER_00: whoop went from being just cardiovascular so you know based on your heart yeah um to cardiovascular and muscular in certain circumstances when you had weights or um you know strength training so uh you know that that i think hopefully encompasses or it gets into your question yeah i know when you calculate the

SPEAKER_07: strain it knows your heart rate it knows your skin temperature i guess it knows your breathing or some

SPEAKER_28: approximation of your breathing and then can use that and then if you're telling it hey i'm doing squats or kettlebells or whatever it can put all that together to say hey here's your general strain level

SPEAKER_00: yeah exactly so you know uh like a running workout for example would primarily our strain metric would primarily be based on the time that you spent in different uh zones of your max heart rate so simple math if you're if you're you know max heart rate's 200 and you're at 190 beats per minute versus 170 beats per minute when you're at 190 you're putting more stress on your body right and so the longer you spend at higher zones the more strain credit that you get so you could do a very long workout at lower intensity or you can do a shorter workout at higher intensity and you may end up with similar strain now that was a primarily cardiovascular measurement yes it uses um you know skin temperature respiratory rate uh but a lot of what you're getting credit for is these elevated heart rate zones on the flip side if you do a workout like weight lifting and this is why i've been critical of step counting as well like it's not giving you enough credit for what you've just done to your body from a strain standpoint

SPEAKER_01: so now whoop is able to use our accelerometers and gyroscopes to measure how you're lifting all sorts of

SPEAKER_00: different exercises and we're getting the input from you on how much weight it was and exactly what your reps were and it does all the rest to measure the tonnage of that workout and what the as a consequence muscular load effect is on your body and that was based on years of research and then there's

SPEAKER_44: this new body feature that you have now so you're putting a sensor into clothes to do

SPEAKER_00: other types of cardio activity explain that so we have a principle just to zoom up for a second like we have a principle that wearable technology should either be cool or invisible and a lot of wearable technology is kind of stuck in no man's land in the middle of those two phenomenons and it looks something like a piece of plastic on your wrist with a you know a time and a step counter or something like that and um or you know some of the smart watches on the market like they aren't super desirable things to wear and they're also very present and so we wanted to stay away from that

SPEAKER_01: we wanted to be either in cool or invisible and cool is creating a product that aesthetically resonates for you it's hard to understate how much of a commitment it is to wear something 24 7 and how much it starts to say about you if you wear something 24 7 right how many things in your life

SPEAKER_00: do you wear 24 7 not much right so uh we needed to create an aesthetic that could resonate for people and as a consequence we designed a product that's infinitely customizable so we have about 70 000 different bands and um collections that you can wrap this little sensor with yeah and you know you can swap them in and out in a pretty seamless fact and as you can see the product's mostly material in fact

SPEAKER_01: we've tried to almost take the tech out of the product no i mean it's so subtle it's so elegant

SPEAKER_09: that it doesn't look like you're wearing looks like you're wearing something you know somebody gave you on the playa burning man and was like hey here's a cool wrist right it doesn't look like it's electronic in any way that was the thing that i was like where's the display like how do i see my heart rate right so do people complain about that because i like to see my heart rate when i'm working out is that like uh something you guys suffer over a bit we get it but there's enough

SPEAKER_00: our opinion is there's enough screens in the world so whether it's your phone whether it's the machine

SPEAKER_13: that you're working out on whether it's your ipad maybe one day even it's your smartwatch

SPEAKER_01: whoop will send the data there right and so you can you can find a way to see it

SPEAKER_00: uh because for most of the rest of the hours of the day having a screen is actually an inhibitor in our opinion to wearing it 24 7. now let's go back to invisible in your question so the other paradigm is that the technology just disappears and you still get the value of the data and our initial shot on goal at making whoop disappear is whoop body which is a line of clothing that allows you to put the sensor in different locations that aren't your wrist so i

SPEAKER_82: take it off my wrist and i put it in my shorts yeah so we'll do this demo for those of you who can see

SPEAKER_00: this video and i'm just taking the sensor apart and now voila i've got this tiny little sensor and i can put this in these different locations so key thing is same exact sensor but i can now wear it on my upper arm in a shirt or under a bicep sleeve i can actually wear it around my waist in boxers or shorts or

SPEAKER_13: underwear yeah here's a good demo of this yeah we've got leggings where it can slip in around the cap

SPEAKER_00: so a big focus on having this technology be able to disappear and you'd be surprised by how many people are using it in their sort of daily lives you know people just saying oh i'm going to just wear it in my boxers from now on uh so you put in your boxers but do it does it still touch my skin then and i

SPEAKER_82: still get my all the skin readings and heart rate readings or do i lose something by putting it into

SPEAKER_13: the you know intimates or my shorts great question we we validated the sensor from all these different locations so we we have something called whoop labs which is where we invite people um essentially off the street and we do these data collections every day and people wear body suits of sensors all over their bodies and we've identified certain locations and then we've you know built algorithms that make all those locations tell you the same thing so if you were wearing six whoop straps at the same time in all these different locations you'd get the same readings and uh and so you know think about different use cases like there's the obvious sports use case so patrick mahomes you know wore his whoop under his sleeve during the super bowl like that's pretty cool he wouldn't have been able to wear it on his wrist but because he can wear it in different locations he was able to wear it during you know high impact sport you think about jujitsu wrestling even racket sports people may not want things on their wrists um anything high impact even in certain weightlifting situations so there's a lot of like sports specific reasons to not wear something on your wrist and then there's the daily life use case which actually has a wider range than we realized but you know it turns out like doctors and nurses for example can't wear anything on their wrists often when they're in a waiting you know in an operating room you know you think about maybe a woman going out to a party and she doesn't want to wear something on her wrist or she's got jewelry on both sides or okay all of a sudden it can now be it can now

SPEAKER_09: disappear yeah that's brilliant uh you know this all happened because i started this new coaching service i don't know if you've heard of fount f-o-u-n-t so i haven't found our bio it's just

SPEAKER_07: like a guy who trained navy seals and so the first thing he said is like do you have a whoop and i'm like no you know i lost like 40 pounds and now i'm trying to get in shape and he's like all right we

SPEAKER_41: got to get you that's that's that's a big deal let's take a pause on that way to go well the first

SPEAKER_07: 20 well i got i used to run marathons basically 165 and then i went up to 213 i got married i had kids i gained three pounds a year for 20 years or two to three pounds a year for 20 years all of a sudden i woke up i was 40 pounds overweight and then i did 20 pounds just using uh kevin rose's zero app i don't know if you know that fasting app it's really cool yeah so i did the intermittent fasting um which tim ferris and kevin rose put me onto then uh and i did hiking lost 20 pounds and then

SPEAKER_09: two years ago i was listening to kevin rose and tim ferris talk about osempic and i immediately got

SPEAKER_07: back from italy two years ago and uh got a prescription for osempic and i wound up losing the next 20 pounds on and off doing wegovian osempic and so now i'm 170 172 40 almost so you're

SPEAKER_09: fighting weight look at that almost to my fighting weight if i get to 165 that's when i used to run marathon i used to run the new york city marathon every year just for fun there you go not competitively in any way but anyway now i got this new quantified self coach so it's like for executives and so i'm 52 and i'm just trying to super optimize to be you know around for a long time for my daughters be the best ceo investor i can be and just be in great shape again and they were like we got to get you on a whoop and then i'm going to give i'm going to share that information with my coach so the coach will see my you know weight every day for my fitbit scale my whoop data great whatever else i share with them um so i'm getting kind of stoked for it and then i got a peloton tread um and i got the tonal machine so i got the whole battery of stuff and then i i did the whole you know when you look at this

SPEAKER_154: stuff i think economically what does it cost to be part of equinox now it's like 200 a month or

SPEAKER_09: something 250 it's it's crazy how expensive it is and so that's like whatever it is 2500 a year three thousand dollars a year and then you put a bunch of uh yeah so it's three thousand a year and i was like well my wife and i joined that's six thousand a year to be part of like a really good gym six thousand a year over ten years is sixty thousand i'm like you could buy every smart device in the world and the subscription and it wind up being a third of the price or half the price and you

SPEAKER_29: own it all and so i have a small gym at home it's not like super fancy uh but i'm just dialing it in and i'm really excited to um to use because one of the reasons i wanted to have you on was because i'm

Chamath Palihapitiya: starting to use it i am using notion as i speak i use notion all day long my entire company runs on notion and notion is perfect for project management and i got a lot of projects going on and i want them to go at this point in my career perfectly i don't have time for mistakes and nonsense and low performance well part of being a high performing organization is to use project management we use notion all day long to do important events in our lives right so when we do something like a project like the all-in summit or we're doing you know the parties at the all-in summit we have a sales pipeline we have av checklists we have schedules all this stuff well guess what notion isn't just about documents it is about project management and they have crushed it today i'm excited to share that they just launched notion projects which includes new powerful ways to manage projects and leverage the power of their built-in ai features too notion projects combines project management with your docs knowledge base and ai so you can stop jumping between tools and stop paying too much for them too so do your most efficient work with notion projects you can try it for free today at notion.com twist that's all lowercase letters notion.com twist when you use our link you're supporting our show go right now to

SPEAKER_29: notion.com twist give us an idea of what's coming like what do you think about because i know that tim cook's been obsessed with glucose level and supposedly there's going to be some way to maybe be able to tell your glucose through your skin i don't know if that's possible or not but i know he's obsessed with that we have an investment in a company called nutrisense that does uh glucose monitoring

SPEAKER_155: et cetera what what do you think the future is for you guys i think glucose monitoring is interesting

SPEAKER_13: albeit not i don't think it'll be uh in a convenient form factor on the time frame that it's being written about i think uh i also am a little bit skeptical of its mass market appeal um so you know folks with diabetes like need to wear a continuous glucose monitor and about 30 of them do it and it's you know i think it's been pitched in the last two years at least in the startup ecosystem as being like another category and at least i've certainly heard this pitch of of um yeah we're like whoop but for nutrition or like for continuous glucose monitoring and i think of it a little bit more like a dna test where it's you do it once and you kind of have a sense now but the idea that you're going to wear a continuous glucose monitor in that form factor forever um is kind of hard to imagine and so there's there's a number of categories that we're pretty excited about i think that what you're going to see um is over time this shift from being able to improve people's lives pretty dramatically with their health to um you know ultimately saving people's lives on a fairly regular basis i think it's going to be like uh almost like a chat gpt moment you know in this last you know how like all

SPEAKER_07: of a sudden this thing came out and it was like being a toy to being like it actually worked yeah i think

SPEAKER_13: it's going to be i think it's going to be pretty binary like that where all of a sudden you realize that you're detecting people are going to have heart attacks before they have heart attacks or strokes or disease states or illnesses and to me it's it's obvious that continuous health monitoring will get to that level right you know we're in this mode of we want to build a 24 7 life coach for you and you can interact with it and learn um everything about your body from it and it'll put you on different plans and tell you when something's wrong and is it starting to give advice or is it up to me

SPEAKER_28: to interpret the results like is it tell you like hey by the way you know your sleep sucked you're you

SPEAKER_09: know you haven't been working out here's some ideas for you tomorrow or here's some things you could do today to get back on track is it coaching you now the product we think of the product very much as a

SPEAKER_13: coach and and that's a fairly deliberate that's a deliberate word because there's other ways to think about um health monitoring and i think over i think over time it will certainly be able to you know i don't want to say too much but you know it'll be able to tell you pretty deliberately um what you need to do next based on your goals or tell you things that you don't know to ask about which of course is what a great coach does yeah that anticipating what i should do based on my weight

SPEAKER_09: my recovery time my heart rate etc my age you're going to just have so much information it's going to be amazing are people now sharing with their doctors do you have that multiplayer mode built into it yet or am i just going to have to get my same password to my coach over at found well you can

SPEAKER_13: certainly create a team uh where you can share information with other people in your life family members friends your doctor uh so that's built into the product today yeah it is that's awesome yeah you can also export your data as a pdf for certain time intervals and you could say hey doc i'm coming in next week here's my last 30 days of all my whoop metrics and and that might be a little bit more of a raw readout of you know of numbers and whatnot but i don't think we're that far from there being a layer that sits on top of this information that can do a lot of what that doctor

SPEAKER_09: visit would have done yeah that's so clear to me because some of the so many doctors they're not using whoop they're not up on the latest science they're not listening to tim ferris or whoever they're just not up on it that's what that's what i keep finding is the general practitioners are out of shape themselves that they don't know the latest science and so i'd rather get my information from whoop and

SPEAKER_07: you know what i really would like to see because i'm doing my blood draw next week i'd like to see some you know whatever quest diagnostics whoop and then uh connect all the data sources yeah and then

SPEAKER_06: i have i did my pro novo scan have you done one of those yet the full body scans so yeah i actually

SPEAKER_07: haven't done that but i'm going to that's pretty cool it's really cool um and then i guess daniel act from spotify now is investing in a company that's going to do really cheap body scans and then i just took a cancer test that's one thousand dollars and it's a blood test just to see if you have cancer in your bloodstream it's not perfect yet but these things i think are going to become

SPEAKER_29: in the future and there's going to be like a battery of things you can do and then connect it all like if i could if you had my blood work plus what you have from the whoop plus pre-novo there's

SPEAKER_09: something there that is going to be revolutionary yeah yeah that's going to just be the game changer and then it's like these doctors i don't think these doctors know how to interpret it but ai will figure it out over time ai will do a much better job over time because you're going to put together three or four colossal data sets i mean that's the exciting thing for me is

SPEAKER_23: if you all can get coordinated and put this data set together and put ai against it

SPEAKER_22: sky's the limit right yeah and and we will and i i think that the other advantage that that uh we have

SPEAKER_13: over even um a doctor or trainer or coach like in your real life is like their sample size might be tens hundreds maybe even a thousand people like best case scenario whereas you know we're building data sets on millions of people right and so it's just the the number of people that look exactly

David Friedberg: like you on our platform is pretty profound yes you'll have x number of 52 year olds in america with my bmi and my height and nobody's going to have that information so and then there's a whole

SPEAKER_13: behavioral layer to it we didn't talk as much about this but whoop has a journal inside of it where you can add different behaviors um and track them so alcohol consumption is the one everyone does because they realize how much alcohol affects their sleep and their recovery and these things but maybe you're maybe you're going to try um a new supplement or meditation or you know fill in the blank like your doctor prescribes a drug like what is this new thing doing to your body and so you can actually do like a little a b test on your body okay when i do it versus when i don't this is how it impacts my experiments yeah run experiments and and so whoop will tell you right back okay when you when you do this and not this this is what happens to your body and this is the perfect formula for you and then oh by the way there's a bunch of people who look just like you who are doing this thing and it's going really well you should do this thing right and so that's where that's where it goes where does your

SPEAKER_09: community coalesce is it in the app or is it just on reddit or facebook groups like because they must be pointing you in this direction it'd be really powerful to be able to say like yeah this group of

David Friedberg: 50 year olds is you know that is going to run this week and drink a glass of wine this group's going to run the same three miles but not drink the glass of wine yeah we i mean we have communities i would

SPEAKER_13: say in a number of of different places and admittedly some people on whoop want to play a very single player game which is their data with whoop and we have i think a lot of encouraging privacy principles for those folks um like we have a strong principle that we're not going to sell

SPEAKER_41: your data to third parties which is something i don't think most big tech companies could could

David Friedberg: authentically claim yeah but i mean if you gave me uh would you share anonymously into this group to and then give to get you know the old give to get concept i'll give my data i can get the average of 52

SPEAKER_09: year olds in the system and benchmark yourself one of the nice that was one of the nice things about peloton i liked was when you were doing the workouts it'd be like hey here's where you stand versus people in your cohort and yeah that's a little gamesmanship uh but it was just a lot of fun you guys raised at a large valuation so companies got to go public at some point i guess you want to be

SPEAKER_13: a large independent companies the goal yeah i mean i think well i think that we've built the business uh to be a standalone business and so uh i think an inevitable evolution of that is taking the business public in the coming years yeah we've raised about 400 million in capital and yeah fortunately we've been able to ride through the last couple years and and continue growing yeah i mean it's tremendous well

SPEAKER_152: listen i'm ordering it today as part of my uh it's part of my get healthy in my 50s and uh i really

SPEAKER_29: appreciate that you're working on it and you didn't give up and you didn't sell the business to

SPEAKER_202: some strategic yeah success with it it's uh it's really amazing what you've done and it seems like

SPEAKER_29: the price is coming down a bit so if you buy it over two years you can get down to what like 20 bucks a

SPEAKER_13: month well you can sign up now for 20 bucks a month if you you know sign up for a year so it's pretty good

SPEAKER_29: i mean like i think there's probably like somewhere between 20 bucks and a and a disney plus subscription

SPEAKER_09: is the mass market so it's still a high-end product but it's not that high it's not absurdly high-end i think that was the only criticism i heard about the product was it was too expensive because i think used to be 40 bucks a month right or it was a little bit more the highest we ever got was 30 bucks a

SPEAKER_206: month oh okay so yeah that's pretty high but if you get down to 20. it's interesting though like you

SPEAKER_13: think about you did all that math on equinox but you could you can just look at like fitness classes you know for one fitness class is 40 bucks right um having a personal trainer is 120 bucks an hour like there's a lot of data points on health and fitness that point towards it being inexpensive to

SPEAKER_23: be able to continuously measure your body yeah i mean and well worth it i mean that's at the end of the day

SPEAKER_116: 20 bucks 30 bucks a month like you're just and you can now try whoop for free so you got nothing to

David Friedberg: lose try it for free it's all good if you don't like it you send it back all right let's continue success i really appreciate you coming on the program thanks for not giving up i will report back to you

SPEAKER_09: what i think of the product as i go on my uh little adventure here with my executive coach

SPEAKER_211: and getting in the best health of my life and we'll see you all next time on the student starters bye bye