SPEAKER_00: all right everybody it's monday welcome back nothing has slowed down and it will not for the duration of your lifetimes yay the artist formerly known as kanye west has agreed in

SPEAKER_01: principle to buy parlor one of the alternative twitter clones and so we're going to talk a

SPEAKER_03: little bit about kanye west yay's mental breakdown and i have some strong feelings about the media social media predators and malina have a really deep discussion about what to do in those cases

SPEAKER_04: and what's happening with kanye slash yay at this moment in time yep delicate discussion it's a

Jason Calacanis: delicate discussion uh and obviously one that we could not opt out of similarly we have to keep our eyes on china and we are we're breaking down some huge public comments from xi jinping the president of china some fallout from the us's decision to tighten restrictions on chip exports to china and just like what's happening geopolitically as we unwind globalism it's kind of a big moment

SPEAKER_09: that we're in historically yeah global globalization being and the deep the great decoupling yeah and

SPEAKER_11: then we wrap with two very cool stories we have the startup of the day from the creator of tbh a new

SPEAKER_13: app that is basically like your yearbook who's most likely to succeed but done in a very positive

SPEAKER_03: still anonymous way uh it's very beautiful product and we talk about the dangers of anonymity plus

Jason Calacanis: teenagers plus online and then we have a we live in the future a startup called spin launch that flings satellites into low earth orbit using centrifugal force and really high g's and we talk about both of those in the context of whether we would invest some tactical information for you yes it's going to be

SPEAKER_18: a great job stick with us this week in startups is brought to you by linkedin jobs a business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters post your first job for free at linkedin.com twist notion is one place for notes docs projects and everyday work that goes way beyond a wiki get started for free at notion.com and helpware helps you outsource the tasks that slow your team down from data entry to world-class customer support helpware can help make you bionic go to helpware.com twist to get one thousand dollars off your first invoice so this breaking news alert came

SPEAKER_22: across my phone i think last night as i was about to go to sleep oh and i was and then that was the moment that i was like and good night like i just was like nope i'm just putting that away and then i woke up this morning at 6 30 and it seemed to still be true so then i was like maybe i'm just

Jason Calacanis: gonna stay in bed all day but i didn't i dragged myself out so that we could talk about the possibility that has so far been announced to be a press release that yay formerly known as kanye west has agreed to purchase the free speech focused social app parlor okay now i want to stop talking

SPEAKER_27: all right well no no i just want to start there for a second i didn't know parlor was still going

SPEAKER_29: so kanye west who does not want i understand doesn't want people to refer to him as kanye west

SPEAKER_15: anymore wants to be called yay i guess so which okay fine it's going to take a little while for that i mean we could also just not do that we don't have to well it's not a law i mean i'm just saying it's not a law people's names i guess i mean it doesn't cost me that much but i mean

SPEAKER_33: is currently going by yay okay i'm going to say the artist formerly known as kanye us referring to himself as yay for i don't know three months just until everybody understands that

SPEAKER_37: this change has occurred because if you just throw like yay into a sentence it's really confusing yay yeah exactly it's like you say yeah yeah yeah okay okay anyway so yes so parlor's still in

David Friedberg: business that was the most shocking part of this story is that parlor still exists shocking to many

SPEAKER_29: yes so parlor so people know is a clunky version of twitter that was designed at some point raised a bunch of funding it was like 2018 and um this was because i guess trump hadn't been thrown off of

SPEAKER_13: twitter yet but this was when i guess milo yiannopoulos and some other folks had been thrown off of twitter right so the early d platforming of yeah uh people i guess spurred the site this site and then there

SPEAKER_51: was what's the other one truth social is trump's truth social is the newer one and then there's gab

SPEAKER_55: gab was like the really gnarly one right that used the pepe the frog meme that was like pure trolling

SPEAKER_01: and then there's rumble which is there's rumble the right version of youtube video one yeah and uh then there is locals uh which is like subscriptions for people right-leaning people like

SPEAKER_06: the dilbert creator scott adams interestingly this move is coming obviously right after twitter and instagram locked yay's accounts because of the series of anti-semitic posts then he was actually spotted not that long ago just for context with candace owens who's like a right-wing provocateur yes in these white lives matter t-shirts yes and of note listen i'm just trying to like

Jason Calacanis: but of note candace owens husband is the ceo of parlor got it and parlor has been it has gone invisible right like it is moribund at best it seems to have had like an initial bump

SPEAKER_06: in popularity when it first launched and does not seem to be super active so certainly there are those people who are saying this is a very you know successful predatory success on the part of this family who just got a big old rescue for their platform i wonder how much of the 56 they blew through

Jason Calacanis: yeah i don't know he was by the way though kanye yay joined really early he was one of the early

SPEAKER_06: people to jump on this platform like he got on it in 2018 it was like you know him and candace owens and yep like some super right-wing senator whose name i can't think of right now you know so he's been kicking around we know he's been sort of kicking around this universe for a while yep but lately has

SPEAKER_72: been you know i think he recently said he said i think this is a bro deal i think this is a fire sale

Jason Calacanis: there are definitely people on twitter saying it's really predatory like here he is and what is it seems to be the middle of a pretty public collapse again and you know yeah these people are like hey

SPEAKER_13: buy my thing so i have some strong feelings about the this issue with kanye specifically yay he has been very upfront about mental illness his partners in the past have been uh a little typo there it's

SPEAKER_01: predatory and sucks i basically just said like listen when somebody's having a mental breakdown and

SPEAKER_29: we saw this with a number of celebrities over the years we have social media which for a person having a mental episode is kerosene you know this is you know a way for a mind that is having a mental breakdown when your mind is broken at that moment in time social media and the media are kerosene you know on this fire it's an accelerant and it's really unhealthy because you get a ton of feedback and then the

SPEAKER_33: feedback feeds whatever and listen i was a psychology major i'm no expert on you know a lot of these things but i'm i would say i'm well versed so and i'm not going to diagnose any specific celebrity here and i'm not going to talk about the other instances of celebrities having this happen but we know them because they come back and say i'm sorry i had a mental instance there needs to be people around

SPEAKER_01: people who have these issues kind of like a pause button and i really think the media get very

SPEAKER_13: excited about having a celebrity specifically so when you when you take mental illness celebrity social media and the predatory media i'm not talking about all media specifically about americans

Jason Calacanis: obsessions with celebrity right like we have this gross celebrity culture we're obsessed with course

SPEAKER_11: which is fine and celebrities opt into that and it's a transaction i totally get it some celebrities you know create these kind of breakdowns in order to get more attention

SPEAKER_13: to promote something uh and so there's all kinds of using going on here but when i saw tucker interviewing kanye last week yay last week then i saw kanye released this 30 minute video which was completely brilliant at times but at that other times it was completely disturbing behavior and i shared it in our group chat he did like a 30 minute video which was super creative him going through areas of japan doing like a video game kind of motif like recreation of a video game with him as the star of it was brilliant but then he was like meeting with adidas executives in this like attacking way forcing them to watch porn videos it was really nuts and you really got the sense like oh my god somebody needs to stop this person and i think this is you know why certain people maybe remove themselves from the the orbit of kanye i really questioned the media and then somebody else did a

SPEAKER_83: three-hour interview with him a youtuber i get it they it's a big deal to get kanye west on your pod it's a big deal to get kanye west on your news program i would love to have kanye west here and

SPEAKER_84: interview him about entrepreneurship i'd love to interview kim kardashian uh you know pick the person but i would not do it when they were having a mental breakdown i wouldn't or if i did and i

SPEAKER_11: didn't know they were having mental breakdown and they had a breakdown on the show i would clip that part

SPEAKER_84: and not air it because this is really damaging to the person where is the just basic human empathy for a human being having a mental breakdown and that's the big problem i have with this now i don't

SPEAKER_83: know the social media companies can remotely diagnose a person having a mental breakdown and turn

SPEAKER_38: their account off or even did like here's the part about here are the two parts of that i would add to

SPEAKER_54: that okay one sorry i just very passionate about this yeah no and i i think you're 100 right and i

Jason Calacanis: will only add to those points that two things have happened one in the midst of what appears to be a break you know like a a mental health episode kanye tweeted yay tweeted profoundly anti-semitic stuff and some other terrible things with a horrible typo in it with a horrible typo in it and twitter blocked the account right like this is this is now did they do it to protect yay no but did they do it to protect a community from these hateful things that he's saying in the midst of this yeah i mean look

SPEAKER_97: anti crazy anti-semitic stuff my family is jewish yeah like my ex-husband my child is jewish like this

SPEAKER_99: is not acceptable to me no you want to know the day that i returned the lease on that car

Jason Calacanis: yeah it was that mean yeah yeah so i don't want to cross our red line but like that is

SPEAKER_102: well yeah i understand it's understandable so it's terrible however so then twitter comes in and locks his account so but then you have wealth right you have these sort of factors that make this like that

Jason Calacanis: go from like a small fire burning to a bomb because then you have somebody who's ostensibly worth two billion dollars you have predators circling yep and you have people who are like you know where you could say whatever you want ah is our platform if you buy it that by the way is probably on the verge of bankruptcy that raised like 56 million dollars and then the last round was a 16 million dollar series b and like we don't really know what state it's in but it does not seem to be gathering the attention that it once did and then all of a sudden you turn that smoldering fire into

SPEAKER_01: something potentially really dangerous yeah that's a really interesting point you had the vector of great wealth with great celebrity with mental illness with predatory uh individuals who knows if the people at parlor are predatory or not sure seems like a crazy thing to do to go into a major transaction with somebody who's having a mental breakdown clearly and you know a shout out to lebron james uh i have

SPEAKER_29: my problems with lebron james stemming from him not becoming a nick during the decision uh and crying every time he gets fouled while being the world's best my eye it's always the eye but you know the and lebron didn't do the interview but it's his show i believe um you know he's got the show the shop and when they chop it up in a barber shop kind of thing it's a really cool show actually i've seen

SPEAKER_115: a couple episodes and um kanye was on it you know what they did with the interview molly because he went on a couple tirades you know what they did with it yeah delete they dragged it right to the garbage circular file yeah that's it that's the right thing to do but tucker caulson wants to you know and then

SPEAKER_13: i think there there is another vector we talked about the celebrity vector we talked about social media we talked about money and we talked about media okay so there's multiple vectors here here's another one partisan politics and i think for people on the right to get somebody who's highly influential in the african-american community in the black community to then leverage them with you know to get them on their side uh and to get them to wear a white lives matter shirt this is also uh like using the person during a mental breakdown i don't know kanye's exact politics i think he you know uh supported trump uh so maybe he is right leaning and that's that's fine if that's what he

SPEAKER_84: that's what he truly believes but during a mental breakdown to grab people and use them as a pawn

SPEAKER_54: you know it's just the whole thing is so sad and it's a really sad it's a really sad situation and

Jason Calacanis: and i do think that when you combine it then with the ability and means to own communications platforms like it gets a it gets it's real messy right it just gets real messy and if the reason for that is just now we're straying into the danger zone but like if the if the reason for that is just ideological yeah and or in this case specifically partisan like i mean it's not going to change parlor

SPEAKER_06: but yeah it just it's just a messy sad situation there are people in the world who use people and

SPEAKER_29: when somebody has a mental breakdown and they're vulnerable like this you get to see who likes to use people and you just keep a list in your mind mentally of who is attaching themselves to kanye at this moment i just am cataloging it here are people and i know some friends of his i've gotten because he has dabbled in the you know like like many artists you know he he's made friends with a i know a dozen people who know him and you know he has like really wonderful ideas he's an incredible artist i mean this is all obvious he's a genius yes it's an artistic genius and it's not and it's not just in one category i mean it's in fashion uh it's in video it's in stage production uh it's in obviously music and producing rap he's so talented across so many different genres that of course you're going to meet with him if you're in entrepreneurial you have to but what i would encourage people is like if somebody's having a mental breakdown the first thing you have to say to the person is like hey how

SPEAKER_13: you doing yeah do you need help do you need somebody to talk to and knowing a lot of people in a circle there are people who are doing that with him and then there are a group of people who are not doing that with him who are saying oh this is my window this is my angle i got my angle shot here this is my chance to get in deeper with kanye to build a relationship with him to build a business to you know get myself in a picture with him or get myself in a story with him to get myself in a video with him this is gross you know this is it's really gross yeah these days every new potential hire can

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Jason Calacanis: free terms and conditions apply i think that's really true and it's not like this is going to have some huge impact on the social media ecosystem right even if even if this occurs and it's there's not a legal mechanism short of somebody declaring power of attorney right there's not a legal mechanism for anybody to say like hey you're not competent to make this decision right now right so it this may happen who knows it's not going to change the social media ecosystem very much this is still

SPEAKER_06: going to remain a niche player in a small and very crowded field ironically of super right-wing platforms what i think you're pointing out really is that the story is this poor guy needs help and

SPEAKER_144: instead people are just like this is my chance exactly it's exactly and you know it's i mean he's he's a father he's got kids you know there's a there's just have some basic humanity and compassion and

SPEAKER_148: also when he has these breakdowns he says incredibly horrible hateful things like let's not you know of course like none of that is forgiven none of that none of that is forgiven but when i mean what you

SPEAKER_29: would want to see here is if the person you know gets control of their faculties again they say listen i said these things i'm going to take ownership for them i'm going to atone for them i'm going to talk to

SPEAKER_01: people you know that would be a really uh nice thing to see happen as well totally but i mean we do have a special exemption in society for people who have a mental breakdown a path for forgiveness and that's a process yeah there's a literal process for it and alcoholics anonymous and other things where you you know try to make amends if you know when you tell people hey here's what i did here's i know how hurtful it was and you describe what you did and i've had people do this to me before

SPEAKER_72: i mean ironically judaism has a whole holiday devoted to it just happened yeah so like you know

SPEAKER_01: this atonement concept is like i think everybody's here for it um so i'm just wishing him the best and to the people who are just absolute leeches we we see you we see what you're doing we see there's a list i have a mental list of people i see do this kind of stuff and i just you know there's tucker calls in here's candace owens and then mia you know the rapper she seems to be getting in on this and i'm like i haven't even heard from mia for 15 years what's going on with her i do a quick google search her out her new album's out her comeback album or whatever's out and it's like ah i hate to be cynical but she's getting no attention i assume i mean i don't know if anybody here has heard about mia i respected her artiste as an artiste as well and she's like spouting off crazy nonsense now and like going to this meeting of the minds with candace owens and of course she's gonna i'm sure getting on this kanye west grift with candace and it's just all gross and you can just

SPEAKER_164: see through it it's just people trying to take from other people and it is and and i mean the noties are

Jason Calacanis: pointing out i think somewhat rightly like he does have the means to get help and ask for help and he is on some level right like it is not on some level he is choosing not to do that too so there's just there's a lot happening here and none of it there's also the possibility that he's not having a

SPEAKER_168: mental breakdown right now he's just a horrible human being i mean who's crazy i mean i mean i

SPEAKER_54: don't i'm but i think like he might just it might be both like kind of horrible and then breakdown

SPEAKER_171: just lets it out of the bag yeah that's that's all possible yeah yeah it does seem like when he

SPEAKER_172: comes back to his facilities he apologizes for all this right does he i don't know maybe no he has yes

SPEAKER_174: yeah yeah probably like i'm sure that doesn't get that doesn't trend the last time he went crazy with

SPEAKER_176: kim he was you know super repentful and apologizing i said this i thought her but then he stalked her

SPEAKER_22: and like attacked pete and you know i mean there was like crazy terrible stuff happening there too

SPEAKER_178: like it's a i don't know actually a case where you might want to if the person is actually saying attacking things that you know that does break the social media rules on most platforms like he did

SPEAKER_29: say violent things about pete which you know it only takes you know there might be five violent mentally ill kanye west fans out there who then might do something terrible john lennon style horrifically to to pete davidson so that you could create like a va a real security risk for pete

SPEAKER_175: davidson you know yeah i think you just talked yourself into content moderation well not content

SPEAKER_54: moderation i i think i mean that's why twitter locked the account that's why you know i mean at some point

SPEAKER_33: it's like a rules of it's literally rules content moderation like the the small subsection of content moderation that is you say something violent and you create real harm in the world like i'm all there

SPEAKER_185: for it all there for that subsection right yeah content moderation is just like such a wide term you

SPEAKER_13: know like i think maybe putting a person like him the idea i really like for these platforms is to put people on um moderation like we used to do on message boards like listservs i don't know if you remember this but like certain people could post to the listserv and then other people had their content held

SPEAKER_29: to be reviewed yes so now this doesn't exist in the modern era but if somebody like let's say trump or kanye you know had a one-year suspension or something and they're coming back you could say sure you can tweet your tweets uh you have to pay a thousand dollars a delay yeah and you're on a six hour delay and our content moderators will read it just to make sure it doesn't break anything for six months if for six months and you pay for this privilege of having yourself moderated uh just like

SPEAKER_33: somebody pays for their ankle bracelet or pays to have a i think trunk drivers right they they pay to have a device on their car they have to blow into to start the car like the breathalyzer that

SPEAKER_115: exists breathalyzer yeah yeah so it's a probationary period where we're going to review your content why doesn't that exist that would be perfect for trump that would be perfect for kanye it'd be perfect for

SPEAKER_13: you know people who are you know we're trying to not give them a permanent ban from the public square but so then put that in my list of ideas for new owner of twitter if there ever is a new owner of twitter

SPEAKER_196: of a you know and by the way it's a revenue model too yeah you're on mod it's gonna cost you 10 bucks a

Jason Calacanis: day i mean we're on penalty all right anything else in the news yeah let's talk about the ccp for those who are not following this particular piece of global news um president xi xi jinping is widely expected to be elected to i made some air quotes i made some air quotes in case you aren't watching the video uh elected to a third term yeah appointed let's just say appointed it's a coronation if you will this is the week in which she is expected to be handed a third term as president after getting rid of term limits and so this is like there's kind of an event happening that only happens every five

SPEAKER_06: years uh in china which is the national congress of the communist party of china meeting so this is the

Jason Calacanis: 20th one of those meetings and xi jinping gave this big speech on that that obviously touches on the

SPEAKER_200: tech industry quite a bit so we just have some notes in here about the major takeaways i am really um

SPEAKER_29: interested in this maui i was up late trying to find a translation and i'm looking for like a um uh a transcript and everything of the full thing but it wasn't out uh as of yesterday um but i'm i'm fascinated by what he said here because it is i think going to be pretty important not just for the united states and the world but startups and technologists as well in terms of how he thinks and there is a concept i just want to make people aware of xi jinping thought so this has been codified

SPEAKER_13: um i learned this this weekend is that the way he thinks his thoughts for the people of china

SPEAKER_29: are becoming codified in a way um and uh it's sort of something you can look up now there and so it's very important to when he says something understand this is kind of uh becoming doctrine it's not like

SPEAKER_155: a speech like obama gave a speech or big time it's like it goes from his thoughts into like kind of

SPEAKER_206: codified law so just keep that in mind when we go through the story yeah it's fascinating so among

Jason Calacanis: the major takeaways i mean this is sort of interesting because broadly speaking in fact i'll find this this document the united the united states also put out our uh 20 like our 2022 national security document earlier the last week and similar themes around self-sufficiency like what we're seeing in some ways is an unwinding of globalization and this was a big part of this speech so for example uh

SPEAKER_06: president chi focused a lot on self-sufficiency national security social stability he specifically

Jason Calacanis: mentioned he mentioned safeguarding the supply chains of food energy and other key products said quote chinese people must hold their rice bowls firmly in their own hands signaling the importance of food

SPEAKER_41: self-sufficiency and security uh that's an evocative uh metaphor there see this is when you know

SPEAKER_29: somebody is really good at public discourse is when you can make a visual that you'll never forget yeah hold your rice bowls firmly in your hands you'll never forget that like keep a good grip on your rice bowl is a really good operating principle for a country well done xi jinping and where speech

Jason Calacanis: writer for him gets it bravo he focused heavily on security over growth so goldman sachs did this interesting chart on the frequency of mentions right specific words that were mentioned and they found that there was a huge growth in the mention of the word security um versus growth so this is super telling well it's also another thing by the way that was that broke early this morning that is also super telling is that china announced this morning without explanation that it was delaying indefinitely the release of economic data that had been scheduled for tuesday morning including closely watched numbers for economic growth from july through september which had been expected i'm reading from the new york times to show continued lackluster performance reminder that china is the world's second largest economy it's kind of a big deal when they say we're not putting out any data

SPEAKER_29: data and forever indefinitely it makes sense if things aren't going well it's kind of like taking a company private you know sometimes you have a public company we talked about this like with zendesk

SPEAKER_33: it's a great analogy yeah it's like okay let's just take it private we'll fix everything and nobody needs

SPEAKER_29: to be giving us any scrutiny for the next five years while we get this thing and you know things can be going really well but as i've told everybody you know if you participate in this country you have to understand that it's top-down control and if you invest in this country they will change the rules at any given point in time and uh just be careful uh with investments over there's one of the reasons

SPEAKER_178: i haven't invested over there okay if you're a startup you need to know about notion you need to sign up today just head to notion.com and sign up for free right now and uh write a deal memo about your company and then share it with me jason at calacanis.com really i'll read your deal memo if you start a notion page because that's what a lot of founders are doing they're writing their deal memos they're running their companies on notion and at launch we run it on notion as well think about this notion is our all-in-one team collaboration tool it combines note-taking right like you use different note-taking apps document sharing you probably have some suite of documents that you use and then there's wikis which you would love to use but they're clunky and they didn't work and they're ugly now notion makes wikis and that functionality beautiful well imagine if all of that was in one platform that you could have templates for and you could have everybody sign into one thing every day and find every single piece of information every database every table all in one gorgeous product well that's notion and i am addicted to it not all work collaboration tools are created equal we all know that some of them help you organize your company's information great others they allow you to manage projects together but notion does both it's one tool for your whole team to do it all so stop having

SPEAKER_13: 50 tabs opening your browser use one beautifully designed product that everyone will want to use here is your call to action learn more and get started right now for free at notion.com take the first step toward an organized happy team today go to notion.com to get started right now you're

SPEAKER_29: gonna love it and share your deal memo with me i think the most important part is the point of

SPEAKER_13: like globalization maybe being unwound a little bit i think what we realized during the pandemic was that this codependency at best globalization means hey less chance of war you know cultural sharing we get to know each other all good trade uh people uh visiting each other's country fantastic going to different schools collaboration on space stations whatever all good stuff but then when it dips into codependency and we saw that with you know drugs ppe semiconductors it gets a little scary because then we have a disagreement you can you can kind of rug pull each other and we see that with russia and germany and so i think this is the um this race towards resiliency uh amongst countries is very important because it'll make the relationship more stable so while this feels unstable in the short term this kind of equal footing will not allow people to rug pull each other so if you've ever seen a dysfunctional relationship between two friends of yours who have kids and they don't have enough money to get a second home and they you know like they can't get divorced because they're in debt and the kids are in school and one of them wants to go to new york i mean and you see it get like really ugly but they can't pull the plug on it they can't fully get divorced and just move on with their lives

SPEAKER_01: for whatever complications now if they both had enough money they both had independent careers you know and they could you know both are there in the city yeah therapy whatever all those things

SPEAKER_15: could add up and they could just right you know you know you see gwyneth paltrow and the guy from uh

SPEAKER_221: coldplay uh chris martin yeah and then they're like they have the resources to conscientiously decouple they're like oh yeah just buy a mansion next to my mansion and well you know whatever you

SPEAKER_83: you see celebrities do this all the time yeah we know i mean conscious economic reliance is a big deal

Jason Calacanis: consciously uncouple so um other things of note and then and then let's talk about um apple in the context of this decoupling because it is it is extremely interesting and exactly i mean this is such a massive like trend that's happening globally right now uh but on taiwan i think we should note uh she also pledged to make the most efforts to pursue a peaceful reunification with taiwan but said china will not commit to abandoning the military option stressed uh that china must achieve and has the ability to to achieve a complete reunification and then required strengthening military training and battle preparedness so there does seem to be some there so there's still a threat and when you look at chip production for example uh tsmc is the biggest semiconductor manufacturer and foundry in the world and that's located in taiwan where people have considered it to be sort of a safe place to do business and and she is quite clearly signaling here like no it's not whereas that's still the plan like the plan is still to take back taiwan full stop which is how we get to apple yeah i mean we had

SPEAKER_01: a great philosophy which was we would say at the same time and this is really hard to keep in your head at one time we believe in one china that's their philosophy of there's one china includes hong kong

SPEAKER_29: and taiwan while believing in the uh sovereignty and the uh the people of taiwan having some self-determination that's what america's position was for a long time now seems incredibly contradictory and so right it was always pretty untenable yeah and you just have to kind of keep that ambiguity as long as you can uh is the game that we've been playing with china for a long time now with hong kong you know the british gave it back and that's game over and you saw what they did there they just rolled over it and the way he framed the hong kong stuff in this was there were a lot of bad actors in hong kong and we you know who were anti china and we finally got them out we cleaned them out yeah yeah we

SPEAKER_33: cleaned it up thankfully and we saved hong kong so that's the framing here if they go into taiwan there they're saving hong kong from these bad actors who are against the chinese people i don't think it's going to happen i'll be honest i don't think we're going to have a nuclear war russia i don't

SPEAKER_178: think they're going to invade taiwan i think we just have to get back to this concept of status quo and kicking the can down the road and allowing there to be some ambiguity here where we're not

SPEAKER_03: forcing people to uh you know resolve these issues and just kind of kick the can down the road and then let time go by because demographics change people change people evolve societies evolve

SPEAKER_01: you don't have to like force the issue i i'm hoping for an extended period of ambiguity with russia china north korea iran cuba like look at the ambiguity with cuba like has this been disastrous uh you know it hasn't been great for the people of cuba but we haven't had a war and we haven't had nuclear missiles

SPEAKER_13: there so sometimes you can wait people out and the young people in the country eventually decide they want their freedom which is what's happening in iran right now and you can support those freedom fighters but you you don't need to saber out all that much and now we're in saber rattling

Jason Calacanis: saber rattling territory and uh that's always bad news yeah i mean you can we could settle we could be very happy with ambiguity and i think we were for a long time it depends on whether the you know folks on the other side of the equation are happy with ambiguity and we don't really know i was i i recently so i recently got subscribed to this interesting news service that's kind of a like secret think tank for big wigs i don't really know i did like a thing for them it was an aspen connection but they have been writing a lot about this um krink alliance china russia iran north korea and how increasingly there's like like iran is sort of outsourcing nuclear testing to north korea and then you know and

SPEAKER_06: that that there's this alliance that's been building that is already essentially waging an economic war

Jason Calacanis: with the west it's just it it's an interesting well yeah and then there were people on twitter today and this gets to kind of the tech angle part of this there were people on twitter today saying like listen you can't even because one of she's of course big themes here is that we have to be technologically independent as well and that just you cannot overstate how good american technology is how advanced it is like there were they were quoting people from china saying you know like every breakthrough that china has made has basically been built by either stealing or grabbing open source code of course from microsoft you know from all of these companies and there was also speaking of china you know last week we covered the us's new rules on chip exports and as part of those rules us citizens are being prohibited from supporting china's chip development at least 43 american execs are working across 16 semiconductor companies yeah and they're the us is essentially debating like are these employees just gonna have to come home they're just in limbo sure now sure come home

SPEAKER_15: yep it's not the end of the world we'll find you a job i mean working semiconductors i mean we have

SPEAKER_245: the chips act we're building here we're literally talking about 43 people yeah i mean i don't think

Jason Calacanis: it's the end of the world yeah and via anonymous sources at nikai apple has frozen like the fallout of this is already starting yeah um apple has frozen plans to use memory chips from the chinese company ymtc in its china-based iphones these were planned to be used only for iphones sold in china and apple

SPEAKER_06: had been buying them because government-funded ymtc chips were 20 cheaper than competitors but now that company is on this like unverified list that the us created on october 7th and so apple's like okay

SPEAKER_72: well i guess we're not gonna do business with them anymore like it's that again economic warfare warfare

SPEAKER_13: is occurring yeah and great um you know it's there you go and the end some point you're gonna have to look at the relationships between the countries and decide which things uh are accretive to your

SPEAKER_01: citizens and which ones aren't you know and this is a natural thing we have to think about what's in our best interest what i will say about this alliance of dictators and authoritarians is uh they're gonna

SPEAKER_13: lose they're gonna lose why because authoritarians don't get along well with each other and capitalism and competition always breeds the best results now we can complain on the margins about you know wealth inequality how fast people get rich bad behavior on the part of ceos or capitalism's unintended consequence all of those will be true uh bad things happen in capitalism the bad things that happen in capitalism the worst days of capitalism are better than the best days of an authoritarian uh country so just let that sink in there is nobody on this planet no human being who given the proper choices and education on like here's the choices of where you could live would ever pick those four countries russia china iran and north korea put those four countries on a list of you know four other countries in the west free countries canada the us uk germany sweden i don't know pick any country

SPEAKER_04: those four are coming in last every time if citizens were going to pick where they want to live 100 of

SPEAKER_11: the time i mean they have to be educated to understand exactly how great freedom is in those

SPEAKER_83: other countries uh they'll lose now they might have little pockets of winning here and there where they steal something or they can build a faster train because they can run over people's houses and take

SPEAKER_33: eminent domain yeah of course dictators can have you know shining moments of authoritarianism that are highly effective right uh and they don't have red tape but well where you're interestingly where

SPEAKER_06: you're seeing china start to stumble is to your exact point is in its increasing embrace of like

SPEAKER_139: aggressive authoritarianism how many times have you been slowed down by time consuming tasks like data entry or scheduling meetings well just imagine how productive you could be if you dropped all that back office stuff and then you just focused on the growth of your startup on your product on hiring great people right you've got really important things your team your product and your customers to focus on those are the three most important things in startups your schedule oh god data entry that's stuff you got to get done it's blocking and tackling well helpware is people as a service and it's going to make your team bionic it's going to augment your team let's just go to helpware.com twist to sign up and get a thousand dollars off right now so go do that while i read this ad basically helper helps outsource tasks that slow your team down again mundane stuff data entry data normalization you know all this important stuff more complex tasks like customer support and even ai operations right you're tagging stuff in ai you're trying to clean up a data set wait until you hear about who uses helpware doordash google microsoft amazon and more imagine if all your top performers wasted zero time on back office tasks and they were all just focused on growing the business get back more time and be more efficient save money and focus your management team and your team on driving the business forward it's all possible with helper go to helper.com twist to get a thousand dollars off your first invoice that's right h-e-l-p-w-a-r-e.com twist for a thousand dollars

SPEAKER_38: off that first invoice and welcome to the twist family to our friends at helpware china had this kind of

Jason Calacanis: directed for a while this is the this is the reason people thought it would be safe to do business in china china had this kind of directed capitalism right capitalism light model it was like you could do hold on you could do business and they were going to allow competition to flourish but it would be directed by the communist party and for a while there that was incredibly effective it has been incredibly effective china has built millions and millions of miles of high-speed rail i'm getting to your exact point just what happened but you should still look back and examine what does and i'm certainly not arguing for an authoritarian regime here but like it came close right and unfortunately trying to regress to the ego to the extreme authoritarian model and she is just like we're gonna roll it all back and and the government's gonna like cancel your listing and disappear jack ma and all of that is always what can happen in an authoritarian regime and that is not to say that china didn't get a lot done for a minute there and what could we learn but what can we learn about

SPEAKER_264: working together right what can we learn about what can we learn about the idea of a collective good

Chamath Palihapitiya: yeah but before we get to that the why yeah why why did it collapse why did their incredible

SPEAKER_178: entrepreneurial run alibaba that's what i'm saying it collapsed because of authoritarianism

SPEAKER_72: yes because a single person said i need to be in charge you know the government was like we're in charge mainly she himself who is clearly positioning himself as a future you know god king of china

SPEAKER_33: without a doubt so that's that's the that's the nuance there i think so that's that's why

SPEAKER_178: i was sort of sort of getting that it's i don't think it's a collective i get your point what i'm

SPEAKER_273: saying is in russia it's one person putin what could we do if we all wrote in the same direction

SPEAKER_00: like i've just been reading this other communists you mean no no i'm saying if you're saying if us and russia could uh russia and china could row in the same direction no i'm saying what could the us do if we could row in the same direction if we were persuadable if we hadn't an idea okay

SPEAKER_58: you don't think we're growing in the same direction i mean country yeah i think we are right now it's

SPEAKER_29: messy yeah sure i mean we're arguing over stuff but we are rowing in the same direction ultimately because we have freedom so like the fact that we're gonna have a vibrant debate as to who gets that seat and xi jinping just picked it for life proof positive you know it's a messy system we have here and yeah it's never been it's never felt more polarized i'm sure it was as polarized in the 60s i

SPEAKER_33: think it was as polarized we we just maybe just didn't experience it ironically it's actually always

Jason Calacanis: been like if you look back at the presidential um election maps for like i don't know 100 years

SPEAKER_72: it's exactly the same yeah like it's it's like almost exactly the same margin like we're just uh

SPEAKER_285: uh we're just a half and half country yeah i mean are you talking about anon's talk as a new york

Jason Calacanis: times piece i'm talking about his new book yeah he's got a new book that the new york times piece is based on and it's a really it's a really fascinating i haven't read the whole book yet but i've read a whole bunch of excerpts and all of his writing about it and it's just a what he's proposing is like an approach of there's this there's an actual technique called deep canvassing that's been very politically effective where you take you know groups of people and they go and talk to people one-on-one and they're like 15-minute conversations they can be very short and profoundly effective because it's just like hey deep canvassing canvassing got it okay sure make sure i got it and it's just it's like the concept of empathy meeting people where they are hearing them out and then and then telling a positive story about like hey i hear you on this position here's my reasoned and positive argument about why i think that my policy might get us to a better place and these people will go out and have these 15-minute conversations i think it was i interviewed somebody who worked on this for how we survive and it was it was used to best effect and maybe even somewhat invented during the um what was it prop 8 the the gay marriage bill in california interesting so he has this whole book where he's just talking to people who are attempting to persuade like not change your mind or convince you or brainwash you right but to have to engage in a real actual understanding conversation to meet someone where they are and say hey i i like i hear your feelings about this extreme topic let's talk about this openly and honestly let me accept your point of view and then we figure out how we can move forward together so when do you demonize

SPEAKER_19: the person i mean listen i'm not in a place to have this kind of empathy right now so when do you demonize the person like when do you tell them they're terrible in this no it's a great

SPEAKER_102: idea i'm literally looking at deep canvas in here wonderful it's wonderful so what i'm saying is how so what i was trying to say is how is there a version where we could achieve a sameness of

Jason Calacanis: purpose oh and a and a common goal without having an authoritarian like i'm not trying to say that but at some point you do have to like the thing that the reason china was able to accomplish so much is that they were able to say like these are the okrs for the whole country yes and then this is what you will be judged on your performance toward those goals and no you didn't get the opportunity to agree on those goals but let's say we use the process of democracy and listening and conversation and empathy to create common goals then think about what we could accomplish and be freaking amazing it's incredible instead of being like you know i mean there was there have been a bunch of articles

SPEAKER_06: today about how they're like environmental justice movement is setting back climate policy because they're just like nope if it's not you know killing all the oil and gas we're not going to do it

SPEAKER_19: true right but anyway well i mean it takes have an on don i want to talk about this like i just

SPEAKER_285: think that that is such an interesting talk to anand because um i think he's quite insightful i find him a little pretentious and hypocritical at times but i do like him i mean he he's a rhetorical he can

SPEAKER_81: be a rhetorical bomb thrower that's why i find this book so interesting because this book even the book

Jason Calacanis: itself yeah it doesn't his his opinions are not really in there it's just like all the stories of

SPEAKER_29: the people who are doing this work i think he evolved from his first work the the winners what was it winners take all or something it was an okay look um but you know it's like he talks about

SPEAKER_178: like how like capitalism is horrible and like then the end he's like yeah and by the way like you know i was like an aspen fellow flying on these guys private jets and i was working at this thing

SPEAKER_182: boston it was like the the whole thing was kind of ruined by he's like oh he's just deep in this system grifting and i was just like anand come on yeah getting paid fees whatever it's a little

SPEAKER_72: strong you can like you can be critical of a system that you uh live happily or comfortably it felt

SPEAKER_29: like he was uh benefiting from the system and then you know found another angle to criticize it whatever i'm open-minded to it but i do like this idea though of what you're saying you know if we could get everybody aligned on the important issues is one of the things i you know i've always

SPEAKER_01: tried to do is think from a little more first principles of like what's the actual issue here and if you look at the issue of immigration which we we keep talking about here people keep sending

SPEAKER_13: people from texas to nantucket or whatever and martha's vineyard like or you know it's such a polarizing discussion whereas it should just be a numbers-based discussion and a logic-based discussion and we should separate it into like the three buckets as i've talked about many times here and i think like this script because i'm looking up the um deep canvassing and the first there's a script scripts yeah and i started while we're talking while you were talking i pulled up the script to look at the abortion script i'm looking at right now like how to talk to people about abortion and choice or transgender issues it's actually a really interesting thing if you could just get people to a basic way of talking about this which isn't they want to steal our jobs you're a racist right and that's what the immigration discussion is and you know both sides are they keep framing this and i always talk about framing here is like the framing should be uh for immigration is who do we need in america to make this country stronger and who do we want to let in because it's the right moral thing to do like and then what can we reasonably how can we reasonably hit those goals in terms of having a plan and if you don't hear any republicans or democrats talk about it that way what what are the what are the positions here that we can't fill that are holding back the country okay we don't have enough nurses great are we recruiting enough nurses here are we making it equitable for people in america to get those nursing jobs okay great checkbox yes anybody

SPEAKER_11: in america who wants to be a nurse can get a free education as a nurse and get an isa that's actually

SPEAKER_13: true today by the way any american who wants to be a nurse can get that job and not have to pay for the degree up front they can get what's called an income sharing agreement and pay for it after they get the job and the job pays an absurd amount of money it's it's so in demand that nurses are making a quarter million dollars a year when they go on tour like when they will come from alabama to work at stanford i was talking to somebody like they have these rotating nurses that they pay triple traveling

SPEAKER_149: nurses get paid like three or four times the amount it's crazy i know and then it leads to like strikes in the hospitals because the nurses that are already there don't get paid that much it's like yeah and the nurses who are there are like okay you're coming from alabama of stanford i'll go to alabama

SPEAKER_29: yeah and so it's just like it's like a it's a really gaming kind of thing and so we could just literally go down the categories here are the positions we need okay let's make sure americans

SPEAKER_13: have access to it first great that makes total sense okay and now how many nurses do we want to get and what countries and so if people are showing up at the border we could say okay do you have a high school education can you speak english or are you willing to learn english great here's your nursing track will accept you based on the nursing track as opposed to just anybody shows up at the border or anybody flies in or anybody pays people off and i like the idea of people buying citizenship

Jason Calacanis: that to me is a genius idea they have it in a bunch of countries the golden passport

SPEAKER_325: visa yeah and i don't know peter teal's buying malta for 750 000 euros you can buy a malta's only 750 no he's buying a 750 000 passport from malta and then you also have to have a

SPEAKER_13: residence there for the two years or something during it so they basically get you to rent an

SPEAKER_00: apartment for two years it got super popular well i think you have to buy property right it got super

SPEAKER_72: popular in portugal the golden visa thing um i don't know if canada has a golden visa program where you can invest a certain amount yeah i think it was like if you invested a million dollars in a

Chamath Palihapitiya: real estate project like yeah let's go actually spain has it yeah barcelona i'm in i love it let's

SPEAKER_329: go but i do record the show at dinner time i think it's increasingly right let's do that we get the show

SPEAKER_334: out by like 10 a.m it'd be great i want to go to there let's do it i do think though let's do it for

Jason Calacanis: a month the i like the idea of trying to bias toward people who are trying to unite us instead of divide us because there is like we have had enough of that and it is purposeful it is purposeful because we are weaker i mean i think this is the point that i was clumsily trying to make about china we are weaker when all we do is fight with each other no we got weaker i just didn't understand

SPEAKER_13: which country you were talking about that was actually your the first thing you were trying

SPEAKER_38: convinced with some god let me finish my sentence and then i'm sorry sorry sorry i was trying to

SPEAKER_342: understand it all right hey you want to talk about startups yeah we are here on this week in

SPEAKER_13: start we got all this stuff is related i mean i think there is by the way uh there is there are editorial products and startups in this vector so you know getting people to talk about these issues

SPEAKER_29: in the way we're describing here that's a product right you can start thinking about products here

SPEAKER_01: that would actually uh be beneficial and creative ideas i think the world's ready for did you see the hike going on between mitt romney and mint what's the guy who's the guy who always votes to not spend on the democratic party he's the 50th vote joe manchin to get joe manchin and mitt romney went on a hike with their wives at a national park and did some photo ops hmm i've been saying crossover

SPEAKER_13: ticket for a long time i i wanted the omni hillary or the bloomberg and uh uh cheney i want something

SPEAKER_01: like that that to me would be boom right down the middle a republican and a democrat because by the

SPEAKER_13: way did you know that's how the united states used to work second place became vice president

SPEAKER_353: yeah i didn't actually know that until like maybe five years ago we all learned it in hamilton i learned

SPEAKER_54: it in hamilton yeah but then i also forgot it and i was just like wow hmm yeah all right i didn't know

Jason Calacanis: that well okay so a good startup because today's startup of the day literally has all of these topics in it it has better discourse and also possibly chinese disinformation as a double whammy okay startup of the day is called gas gas like gas fees or uh the stuff that goes in your car for now gas is an app asking teens to complement each other via anonymous polls which is super interesting it's it's designed specifically to appeal to high schoolers users select which school i think they go to when they sign in and they can only answer questions about their classmates but the questions the polls are designed to be really positive who do you think is the most fun who do you think has the best hairdo and then you if you're selected in the poll like if you're you know the one who wins the you know from a boy in 11th grade who should dj every party okay and then they list these four

SPEAKER_359: people gas up your friends is the concept kind of gaslighting but not exactly yes that's a negative

SPEAKER_149: connotation yeah this is gases like to pump up your friend pump them up exactly um yeah and then you

SPEAKER_22: you know you vote anonymously and it's supposed to be this really positive thing and it's gotten

Jason Calacanis: extremely popular very fast it like had displaced be real and tick tock even according to the wall street journal it was downloaded more than 500 000 times since its launch in late august now listen you can debate whether this is going to go horribly wrong quickly i don't know but what's super interesting about it is that one you have founders who are really trying to create like some positive space which is delightful yeah and also that its sudden increase in popularity coincided with a disinformation campaign what in which the founder tweeted a whole thread about gas getting caught up in a human trafficking hoax i know this founder nikita yeah nikita beer yeah b-i-e-r tweeted a thread about uh how after an investigation our team found several indications that the gas app human trafficking hoax was planted by an entity or person originating in china tick tock our data shows users connecting from china when the app first began growing and the first fake review was posted that day the review was then screenshotted and posted to tick tock the following day by an account with few to no us teen followers and then subsequently led to gas app searches to auto complete to gas app trafficking the video was later deleted after the hoax gained momentum and they have been

SPEAKER_264: targeted with denial of service attacks with many ips originating from china this is the same team that

SPEAKER_189: brought us the tbh to be honest app where you could take like anonymous questions which obviously you

SPEAKER_01: know we talked about anonymity here it's a very dangerous space with children um we we had a whole wave of suicides uh in web 2.0 there was an app uh called form spring uh there's an app called secret

SPEAKER_13: yes and we were investors in an app called whisper which was exactly like this a positive spin where you and all of these shared a common dynamic location and anonymity and then in some cases address book and friend graph plus anonymity plus location so some combination of those things means you can find your friend group without knowing who's saying what um now of course the app would probably know and if the app knows boy that's super dangerous but it eventually leads to bullying and so i mean you have to tread very lightly and here i understand i believe the founders have great

SPEAKER_33: intent by the way and i think the founders of those other apps had great intent as well uh whisper never got caught up in this but form spring and secret i don't know if secret but form spring there were a number of suicides now there's a number of suicides that happened sadly in the world so if you were like how many people ordered an amazon package today and killed themselves not the amazon story where we talked about uh you know specific things to kill yourself with but just just generally

SPEAKER_13: people who used an iphone today and killed themselves there would be a correlation of 50 percent because they either used android or you know iphone so just be careful with correlation and causation right this is obvious but sometimes the press will run with things or social media with run with things this is causing that and it's just it would have happened anyway because tragically some

SPEAKER_01: people commit suicide so anyway in this case you know because of these uh anonymity that releases the ability of people to bully and young kids experiment with bullying sadly tragically because they're becoming adolescents and adults bully kids bully it's just part it's part of the dark nature of

SPEAKER_118: our dna yeah and so you just have to be careful if you build a tool that accelerates that right

SPEAKER_13: exactly accelerate it because the person on the receiving end may have never experienced in in person you could have five people bully you right or in the case of the movie carrie the whole school class bullied the one person at once right she obviously had superpowers and murdered them all but

SPEAKER_118: you know so be it uh that's what makes the that's what makes that story so resonant right is that

SPEAKER_13: so don't bully friends yeah well it is what makes it so resonate that's why that became such a powerful story carries because everybody's experienced bullying and then you had well what would happen if the whole school bullied somebody and they could actually you know take back their power and then of course school shootings are part of that and this is why it's a dangerous thing for

SPEAKER_80: entrepreneurs and technologists to get involved in this dynamic because it is there are edge cases and

SPEAKER_13: as a parent we both are attuned to them because we hear the stories when people come back from school

Jason Calacanis: of somebody who's been bullied i think you can i'm trying to figure out if in this case yes i mean look trying to predict usage and control content is a fool's errand like trying to say this is a this is a product that only exists for people to be nice to each other it's just like i mean i think that maybe is what mark zuckerberg thought initially about facebook right you will find cute girls because that's what they originally designed it for and everybody will just want to be friends here

SPEAKER_90: and i think there were people legitimately at facebook who had never just considered

Jason Calacanis: what people are like right so that so that is always going to be a dangerous game what is interesting about gas is that appears that they have a set list of prompts you can't enter your own so it's just a like maybe they will increase the prompts over time and all you can do is enter

David Friedberg: names of people in your school right so it's a super limited interaction and the prompts are like who would be the best dj at a party who like i saw one of them was like who would i most like to steal

SPEAKER_178: from their boyfriend or girlfriend whatever it is the idea is that these who do you secretly admire

Chamath Palihapitiya: is that the most beautiful person you ever met yeah yeah none of the prompts are user generated

SPEAKER_06: the prompts are not user generated exactly you are not allowed to generate your own prompt you can

SPEAKER_220: only because then somebody can say who's the biggest loser who's the biggest dork who has the most body odor who's most likely to kill themselves you could do something really horrific exactly and

SPEAKER_97: to taunt somebody they would right and people of course they would yes that's how people are now i do

Jason Calacanis: think there's you know it's weird to have people voting on each other anyway right like because somebody's gonna lose the poll like i don't know but at least i will say they have put in the guard rails i just think there are two things interesting things about this one is that they're experimenting

SPEAKER_06: with the guard rail so that you can't generate your own prompts good smart which is smart and that you're not voting on people you don't know you know there's no sort of like it's or at least that go to

SPEAKER_69: the same don't go to your same school right smart but two that they seem to have been review bombed

SPEAKER_13: by china i guess brigading would be the other issue here it's like could we all create a way to vote for a specific person for something the person didn't want but i guess if the prompts are thoughtfully done that'd be harder but this is basically the dynamic of the yearbook but every day so instead of on graduation who's most likely to succeed right who's most likely to get married who's most likely to be prom queen all those kind of things which i really had a problem with i thought those were

Jason Calacanis: pretty we had never liked that process we had most likely to end up in the state pen like we had some

David Friedberg: messed up ones yeah that's what i'm saying is like those were also a little bit yeah that one was

SPEAKER_235: anonymous by the way we all but it was just one guy we all knew it i'm gonna do you wind up in the pen

SPEAKER_01: i don't know i'm gonna try but i don't know yeah um i mean it just because you can vote doesn't mean you should but i i this uh this this uh founder nikita i don't think he likes me i think he's

SPEAKER_13: kind of dunked on me a couple times on twitter but i do think he seems pretty thoughtful and talented

SPEAKER_54: and has tried this before like he's trying to he's trying to introduce positive discourse into yeah gen z and millennial life and this one seems to be catching on i i like the fact that i i like the

SPEAKER_01: fact that he has good intent and he's trying to do something that is thoughtful so i give him kudos

Jason Calacanis: for that also there is i think between this and be real we should take note and tick tock we should take note of the fact that we do have one and a half generations like younger millennials and gen z's

SPEAKER_06: who are without a doubt looking for alternatives to the social apps they have yeah it's kind of like

SPEAKER_178: you you know facebook was for boomers twitter is for and instagram is for gen xers and maybe

SPEAKER_01: millennials yeah uh tick tock is for gen z and what's the generation after gen z i don't know what

SPEAKER_00: they're called yeah i don't know either but whoever they are alpha i think whatever i mean i do you 10 to 15 year olds be considered gen z right now i don't think so there's something else yeah no my son's

Jason Calacanis: gen z he's 15. i think he's right there in the but but without a doubt i think even tick tock they're like it's awesome but they're they're willing to explore to this is a really ripe moment for something new it is alpha right yeah look at those kids gen alpha the cool name great i like it gen alpha's great yeah starting all over anyway super interesting startup story super interesting opportunity i think to build things like more private more positive more controlled people are just into group messaging the one post a day like there's we're starting to hone in on some opportunities here i think you

SPEAKER_01: know it's almost like they're inoculating themselves to the viruses and the bacteria in

SPEAKER_29: the previous social network so they're like oh in that previous social network you used it too much okay how do we throttle addiction in the in this app okay be real okay and that other one you bullied each other okay how do we inoculate you know our peers from being bullied okay great let's do that so you know nature finds a way to quote jeff goldblum like and that's what is happening here

SPEAKER_03: i think nature is finding a way to to mitigate against what the previous things did poorly like uh so kudos to totally good product developers good product developers people understanding this

Jason Calacanis: opportunity younger people building companies i i'm so happy they use that analogy because i've been saying this for years like social networking is really new if you think about it yeah it is really new to our society and so of course we didn't have an immunity to it and now we're these next

SPEAKER_149: generations are evolving and starting to to develop i deleted tick tock this weekend by the way i don't

SPEAKER_402: know really just off my phone i'm like yeah i just it was starting to become i understand the habit it

SPEAKER_83: builds it was starting to become like i go to when i turn my phone on i go to twitter i go to podcasts i go to slack i go to my email and then tick tock got in that rotation and i'm like this is not

SPEAKER_435: adding anything to my life right you're like it's not serving a business purpose and it's a habit and

SPEAKER_83: like i'd rather have chess or you know grammarly or a writing app become a habit than this and so

SPEAKER_01: i'm just looking at my habit and say that this was not adding to my life yeah um so you know except

SPEAKER_15: that it did find me a we live in the future story which i shared i know and so maybe a new

SPEAKER_83: entrepreneur but yes i mean i guess there'll be moments there i i should we do that should we do that we live in the future i think we should i mean i teed it up here i mean i basically saw a tick tock and i was like oh that's like we live in the future segment but done on tick tock

SPEAKER_84: so let's draft off of that and is it real apparently that was my thinking i was like is this real or is this just like some sci-fi thing which is the point of we live in the future i think

Jason Calacanis: you saw it actually i really am gonna i want to start following or i would start following this

SPEAKER_208: account except that as we have discussed many many times my tick tock is only for dogs and other cute

Jason Calacanis: animals so i can't but she looks super cool galactic gal and she has fabulous space themed nails like amazing nail game and also right pointed out to us this company called spin launch which is making a rotating arm a huge one like statue of liberty size rotating arm that can fling small satellites into low orbit space sweet what it is amazing it's like a do we have the video can we do the video yeah we're watching the video there it is wait that's a real thing in the world it's real it like really exists and it is uh john dore personally and kleiner perkins were investors in the round they pulled off their 10th successful test launch in less than a year just a few weeks ago they first raised funding in a 3.9 million dollar seed round in 2015 and then raised a 71 million dollar series b just last month in september led by atw partners at 171 million valuation it is amazing according to space.com the customer payloads launched by the accelerator had to survive up to 10 000 g's 10 000 times the force of the earth's gravity as this 108 foot long rotating arm hidden inside a white casing spun up the payload faster than the speed of sound and we have the slow-mo right now of this rocket shoot now what i want to know because actually it turns out that like jet fuel is a massive emitter like a massively polluting right and super dangerous so i wonder how this thing is powered and if it is by it by launching

SPEAKER_306: things into space like do they need rocket fuel or are they just literally propelled it seems like they're

SPEAKER_178: literally propelled they need a lot of energy to do this obviously they're burning something i'm guessing they have some type of they might have jet fuel or diesel or something to power those engines

SPEAKER_13: i'm not sure electricity alone could do it um yeah i don't know maybe electricity could i don't know the how you know something going through a centrifuge or whatever works in terms of does it require a

SPEAKER_178: massive amount of thrust initially or can you slowly you know just add power to it right i don't

SPEAKER_450: exactly and then centrifugal force would take over and then it would be like that's the thing i don't

SPEAKER_13: understand and then i have questions a lot of questions and then i but it's it's fun to look at and so i wonder what you can put in there so now because of those g-forces there's g-forces on rockets as well right so i i don't know but i don't think they're 10 000 yeah i don't think it's 10 000. so then i wonder if what components would survive this or not and then your question is it going to use more or less energy and how much more or less because let's say these were star links or you know low earth orbit i'm assuming this does low earth orbit yeah these two lower earth orbit and

SPEAKER_11: then there are components in there that can't survive the g's well then it's kind of worthless

SPEAKER_13: so if you can just chunk uh you know putting a brick of metal up into space does nothing for you

SPEAKER_118: you know but putting lenses and putting chips and memory chips and batteries like does all that stuff just

Jason Calacanis: break when it spins that fast well i guess i mean it depends right they'd have to be encased and well in case and then can they do you does the casing break off once it's in orbit or i don't know do

SPEAKER_13: those materials just crack like does glass crack when you put it at 10 000 g's right i don't have no

SPEAKER_83: idea and like does the glass that you need for i'm assuming some of these satellites will have like glass or batteries or transistors that just can't survive this so maybe you can't do star links with

SPEAKER_01: this but then it's like okay well what's the point the low earth orbit satellites need to have gps

Jason Calacanis: whatever in it so that's going to be the real test yeah this is really interesting though they say uh they do in fact aim to uh have a orbital launch system that's cheaper and more environmentally friendly

SPEAKER_72: that is the goal yeah i mean i could shoot small constellations of satellites into low earth orbit

SPEAKER_13: this is so cool i wonder how long it takes like so can they shoot one an hour one a day like does the centrifugal force take three hours to build up to this or three minutes i mean this is

Jason Calacanis: one of those where like i don't want to have every entrepreneur on when we talk about we live in the future necessarily but i do what can you guys call us i think it should be yeah i think you guys should come on like i really want to know more absolutely so there's a microsatellite bus okay so maybe that's what they're gonna do yeah and maybe that's what they're gonna yeah i love i mean i love the idea of just saying like hey you know we've only thought about using rockets to get stuff into low earth orbit and that's really hard and really expensive and super polluting and dangerous what if we instead just use like a catapult right like that's just sort of human ingenuity like we've always done it this way but what if instead we just went

SPEAKER_13: space elevator remember the space elevator concept that was going to change everything and it was the idea was you would just build this basically very long string with a weight on it and then it would have an elevator attached to it and you could put something in the elevator theoretically humans but more likely payloads it would go out into space and as the earth is rotating you'd have this like

Jason Calacanis: trailing totally there's actually there's a really cool there's these books called the red mars of course obviously the mars trilogy by um kim stanley robinson they were written they're so detailed that they almost feel like a history of colonizing mars the way they're written and they have space elevators

SPEAKER_19: and at some point spoiler alert there's like a terrorist attack and they like blow the cables and the foundation wait that's the foundation series right it's on apple right now oh no no uh it's it's called the mars trilogy it's like red mars green mars blue mars is the three books the foundation series

SPEAKER_13: this is why like we even started uh uh we live in the future was there the concept was there were in

SPEAKER_33: the foundation series and i just put the trailer here and they can zip up uh into the trailer but uh spoiler alert there is a space elevator which is how everybody gets from earth to space and uh there's a terrorist attack on it uh yeah this all happens in the first episode and it's in the trailer so if you go to two minutes into the trailer you'll see the moment where that happens and obviously it's quite spectacular to blow up a space elevator with a city attached to it and the giant cable comes crashing

SPEAKER_148: down you know to earth kills everybody on earth to the planet rather and kills like tons of people

SPEAKER_90: yeah there it is boom space yeah i mean that's gotta still i figure i feel like the space elevator still

SPEAKER_81: gotta be coming anyway i want to know more about the catapult i love it i think that's rad it would be

SPEAKER_01: pretty great i think if we could get more stuff up there quicker i mean the the impact that low earth orbit satellites are going to have when we have three or four vendors up there this is going to be nuts like the the impact that free or close to free internet's going to have uh on the world is is

SPEAKER_03: just truly mind-boggling i think every home is going to have two or three internet connections

Jason Calacanis: soon but we talked about five we talked about this last week and i love it i love the idea of it like as cheap backup internet i mean i love your entire concept of race to resilience like generally right that's a home to home thing like i have been saying to people i'm like the story of the 21st century of this decade and the next few is going to be decentralization no doubt about it oh i'm super into low earth orbit as a place for manufacturing like i think we're going to be able to be do jeff bezos even talked about this after one of the blue origin flights like it we're going to probably be able to situate factories and some manufacturing they've been actually doing a bunch of you know the space the international space station has a whole public private partnership thing happening and they're starting to work on manufacturing and one of the things they can make is like fiber optic cables for internet transmission that have zero latency but can really effectively only be manufactured in space because gravity introduces imperfections but you could move a bunch of very very dirty industries to space without polluting the planet and do manufacturing i mean this is obviously a far

SPEAKER_01: yeah that's really out there yeah so if there was something we made on earth

SPEAKER_118: that was particularly gnarly dirty yeah dirty you do it in space we could do steel production in space

SPEAKER_03: then the output would go into space and not hurt space i guess yeah yeah interesting it's a great

Jason Calacanis: concept yeah yeah i mean obviously space mining yes i briefly considered i think it's a little too early which is my trend but i briefly considered instead of becoming a vc trying to become a space lawyer because i think space law is like one of the industries of the future without it seriously like when we start to fight about like who gets to mine an asteroid who gets to be in low earth orbit are there parts of it that are like territorial disputes yes there's like going to be war there are all these contracts luxembourg the country of luxembourg this is what a freaking nerd i am by the way

SPEAKER_72: that all this stuff is not only stuff i know but and i'm obsessed with the country of luxembourg has set itself up as like a center for space law they're like this is one of the industries of the future

SPEAKER_03: and we're it we're on it like the zug in switzerland for crypto yeah you could be like hey we'll do space law i mean it's it's going to be somebody's nerd isn't here and who wants to fight it's like how much

SPEAKER_01: do you want to fight for this right i think it's going to become part of it you know but it does seem who you're hovering above matters so if you want to beam your satellites into a certain country you got to get that country's permission right now now if you're far i mean but what if you said no i don't care then i guess that country would just be like okay it's our sovereign airspace

SPEAKER_118: theoretically and well that's what china is doing and russia they keep like blowing stuff up they

Jason Calacanis: keep literally blowing up their own satellites and being like debris be damned there is a treaty there is an international treaty like a global treaty that's supposed to govern this stuff and then you

SPEAKER_72: know you have countries just being like nah not gonna all right well there you have it folks another

SPEAKER_33: great day we live in the future we do live in the future and start up the day you know just through the lens of like would i invest in that company by the way a great founder serial founder amazing design it's kind of an outlier in terms of you know how it works i could see consumers

SPEAKER_500: subscribing to it i think it's you're talking about gas to be so my guess you should clarify

SPEAKER_178: for the audience we're talking about gas not on gas if i were to take it through my rubric of investing great design serial founder serial team has had an exit before just a lot of the qualities i

SPEAKER_33: look for and it's got a subscription model built in right like it's just easily people would pay to subscribe to that that's got like a lot of check boxes for me and then you know in terms of the

SPEAKER_03: market size it's huge so that's that's a no-brainer to invest in for the second one for we live in the future one if i put it through the lens it's definitely an outlier but man that's hardware is

SPEAKER_33: hard man that's a hard one to do that's going to be capital intensive and it's going to be at a price that makes no sense right the valuation makes no sense compared to probably their revenue so that's a that's a real hard one to justify investing in unless you've got a fund specifically

SPEAKER_03: designed to make 20-year investments like jurvinson does yeah that's probably why by the way john

SPEAKER_157: door did it personally i mean i was going to say when you look at uh when you look at something that

SPEAKER_208: john door is in you know it's like a big freaking dream that you might want to success you might

SPEAKER_33: want to let somebody else have that dream yeah well it's a low chance of success with a high payoff if it does succeed right so it's an outlier it's an outliers outlier right there's just no

SPEAKER_01: no known path to profitability there or a low path to profit but because while space delivery of

SPEAKER_29: satellites payloads is proven this technique is not proven so it's really an outliers outlier but

SPEAKER_175: you know that's that's it's almost like it's making the bet it's almost like an r d investment

Jason Calacanis: right it's really interesting like you want to incentivize the r d and you hope it works out

SPEAKER_01: what's the what do you think the realistic timeline of this something like that is and the realistic footprint of uh capital required to get there it's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars and i'm guessing a decade or two before it's viable so if you have a 20-year horizon great venture funds have a 10. so you know it's what is the lps you know if you have lps investing in they better be lps that are generational lps in other words the people working at the the people working at the institution

SPEAKER_178: that would fund a bet like this are probably not going to be in the job when this thing hits profitability so think about that for a second somebody working at some pension fund makes the decision to invest in a venture fund that invest in this and the venture fund employees and the employees at that pension fund and the venture fund may not be in their jobs when this investment is

SPEAKER_06: realized that's when did i was just asking our producers this like when did bc start investing in

SPEAKER_175: spacex 2006. well yeah i know the elon uses his own money says okay it's possible that founders and

SPEAKER_03: when did they start investing in tesla 2004 2004 i think so yeah those are 20-year journeys so now one of them went public very early tesla went public early right spacex hasn't spacex is still of

SPEAKER_510: i mean i think elon is basically described space as a furnace a money burning furnace

SPEAKER_33: yeah so yeah yeah i think that well i guess they're probably counting elon's investment as the first investment and then i think shortly after founders fund did it luke nossett gets credit for

SPEAKER_03: that um yeah so yeah i mean it's not like it's not our model it doesn't really it's moot for us in

SPEAKER_22: terms of spin launch although come on this weekend climate startups certainly at a minimum tell me all

SPEAKER_516: about yeah it could be the next also could fit uh could fit in the next um unicorns too it could be like

SPEAKER_175: a b bowl it's a b bold it's a b bold for sure all right got a great week coming up tons of great

SPEAKER_285: stories we got through one day we got through monday we got 20 percent of the way there or so we're

SPEAKER_148: just waiting to see what the heck is gonna happen tomorrow but either way you know what we'll be here for you yes and you will not hear our insights anywhere else no so there you go slowly but

SPEAKER_521: sure exactly see you tomorrow see you tomorrow bye bye bye