SPEAKER_01: all right everybody super fun thursday show on this week in startups today first up a new segment little big things this is little things we're noticing in products that are awesome or that

SPEAKER_03: suck and today apple news is in my crosshairs with one thing that's awesome and then one thing

SPEAKER_00: that really sucks yeah how a little bit thing can lead to a big conversation and apple's ad business is definitely that conversation and then lon harris is back for this week in

SPEAKER_07: streaming we're going to talk about zaslov again and the cuts and the shows being put into the

SPEAKER_09: basement to collect dust sith lord zaslov he's not pleased you know jason's loving this one they

SPEAKER_00: removed over 30 titles from hbo max including 20 originals anyway it is going to be a great conversation with launch gonna be a great show stick with us this week in startups is brought

SPEAKER_10: to you by in brokers startup insurance program helps startups secure the most important types

SPEAKER_12: of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle save up to 20 off of traditional insurance today at a broker.com twist while you're there get an extra 10 off using offer code twist vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast twist listeners can get one thousand dollars off for a limited time advanta.com twist and revelo looking to affordably scale your product development with global tech talent in u.s time zones hire vetted remote developers in latin america with revelo get 20 off the first three months at revelo.com twist all right molly i wanted to do a new segment on the show we have a lot

SPEAKER_14: of founders listening a lot of investors listening and we have people who are fans of technology

SPEAKER_15: writ large and so what i wanted to do was start a new concept that we do we live in the future we

SPEAKER_16: do okay boomer we do vc sunday school we do this week in climate this weekend uh streaming streaming

SPEAKER_19: we're never done we're never done this is a new segment called little big things there's a website

SPEAKER_16: called big little things or little big things i don't know what the website's called but anyway little big things what this is is just observations about product excellence and things we're noticing that other people aren't necessarily talking about that you uh might appreciate so i had one that i noticed and i asked people about this and nobody had known about this so i i i'm now a subscriber to like whatever the apple prime concept is so i get the video games i get the apple tv plus i get everything i get right storage what is it called apple one or something maybe it's apple one yeah so little big details.com is a really cool design inspiration site so this is i kind of stole the name from them i'm calling it little big things it's people talk about this all the time in product design so it's not exactly their idea but you can go to little big details and see how ux designers focus on little details this is kind of tangentially related but i was going through apple news which is great and getting better and you know how i like to use these third-party softwares to listen i use third-party software to listen to articles because i like to go for a walk in the morning and i i got you in on that and we use a couple of different pieces of software for it i won't say which one but we've used three or four different ones and sometimes we'll get a pdf of an early copy of a book and i'll take it and they don't have the audio book out and i'll run it through this audio software so i can listen to it anyway put it all aside i was on apple news so i noticed between stories you know when you're on your apple news you switch you switch left and right and then i noticed that some of these had a little note and we'll see it come up in a second there it is boom so here is the untold story of the biden family report a reporter at large and at the top it says play the

SPEAKER_14: story and i hit play it's a beautiful voiceover you know like really like done npr style published

SPEAKER_33: in the print issue of the new yorker this isn't a computer no this is beautiful story of the president's family oh that's so i'm like whoa where did that come from and i i started whipping

SPEAKER_16: through and i found like three or four of them i never heard an announcement about this i didn't see it at a keynote i don't know if i'm in the testing group but the two details i want to point out here is just how powerful that is to get your news read to you now who's responsible for that is this a third party company new york times had bought a third party company that was doing this exact business called autumn that actually i tried to invest in i reached out to the founder but they got sold really quickly and i think they were just doing audio versions of you know long reads molly so it could be a third party like that or apple i think maybe started this program and is asking people to do it and then just linking to it this could change everything what an incredible business model this could be you know in terms of getting people to pay for stuff and i notice other websites are doing this on their own the wall street journal seems to be doing some stories i don't know if you've gone to a wall street journal story and said seen play this story i have seen that yeah yeah so but now to see it in apple news is pretty incredible i think apple news has a chance of becoming like the the one and only news reader there were so many news readers i had an app for news reading for inside i invested in circa which was very cool there was a whole swath of these smarter news tried it in the u.s they're an incredible one from japan and china so in china japan uh korea they have news apps that are social so instead of going to twitter or facebook and getting news you go to a news app and then you put social underneath it that never happened here but i think apple's got a shot here of having something very special and then the final question is apple's building quite an interesting ad business with their search you do a spotlight search you see some ads you do an app store search you see some ads those ads used to be on facebook and google now you see them in the app store but swiping between stories there's ads now who gets the money for that if it was between a wall street journal story and a verge story would the wall street journal get the ad would the verge get the ad or would neither get the ad revenue where they each get a third and apple gets a third this is like you know when a podcast player tries to insert ads into your podcast that's no good right no bueno right but if they put it after your show or before your show they can't do it before you have to start with them but at the end of the show they will play an ad i

SPEAKER_24: believe between podcasts on spotify i need to get clarification like it's dynamically inserted yeah bloomberg's so who wait and then if they do that dynamic molly uh-huh and they say when you buy it

SPEAKER_16: we're going to give it to users who listen to this weekend startups and pivot and all in and i don't know

SPEAKER_50: np marketplace tech shouldn't that be our money if they're selling it on the tech channel not spotify's but then again we want spotify to make money and we appreciate them building a platform

SPEAKER_41: that we have our ads embedded so should we be cool with it very interesting question right yeah it is

SPEAKER_00: an interesting question well in the case of apple bloomberg's apple expert who we found on the show mark german says a portion of ad revenue from the news apps today tab goes to publishers but it's not clear how much german also mentioned that apple lets publishers advertise within their stories and publishers keep the vast majority of that money because to your point it is sort of a double whammy like you want these platforms to continue to exist yes but not at the expense of news which is exactly what the you know why everybody's been like suing google and they're trying to get the snippets taken down and they're trying to like renegotiate all of their deals with facebook in terms of what how who gets paid when stories show up and now you've got this like additional layer

SPEAKER_16: of advertising so could somebody in the media business just drop a dime and tell us send us the contract snippet or tell us what's going on here that the public needs to know what's going on here and i what i would like to know from people in the ad buying business if they could email producers at this week in startups with this information you can do it from a burner account if you like but just some idea of what's going on here when you buy ads on apple news are they selling the verge and you could buy an ad that's you know after the wall street journal verge or are they saying the tech business channel which includes the verge wall street journal i'd like to know how they're doing that because if they're using people's names and if spotify is doing that with this week and startups all in marketplace pivot whatever tech pockets are out there then they're interfering with our ability to do commerce in the world they're like going to the same set of advertisers saying hey you can get the same users buy them direct from us as opposed to buying them from you know marketplace or npr or vox so i need some experts to drop a diamond rat on what's going

SPEAKER_00: on with these platforms i want to know what's going on here i do too and i i do think that apple is waiting apple is obviously we know taking a lot of steps to increase its ad business overall and come for facebook and google in these various ways and also it's treading into dangerous water right because apple has had this good if somewhat uneasy reputation with developers and publishers because it's like okay we gotta we gotta be here and it's really good for us and it's high quality users and it's high quality revenue but if all of a sudden apple starts selling ads against their content they might be upset and there's this big privacy question like apple has been able to say oh we uh let you opt out of all kinds of advertising tracking but all of a sudden if apple is the one who's like yeah but we still tracked it and now we're advertising against it it's going to be a little dicey for them too so i think the apple would be wise to be this is never going to happen because it is not their mo but apple would be wise to be as transparent as humanly possible about how they're going to conduct their ads business because it's dangerous territory from the publisher side and the consumer side

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SPEAKER_16: there you're going to get an extra 10 off by using my code twist yeah and you know they had the high ground for a long time um and now they have to explain themselves because we talked about how they were asking us to opt into ad targeting and they're like but here's our here's how our ad targeting is

SPEAKER_37: different we don't have a database of all of your stuff somewhere we on your local phone we have your preferences or whatever and we'll serve an ad based on what's on your phone but we never have custodian of that we're just matching hey you use your stock app you know five times a day you know robin hood ads and e-trade ads for e-trade ads for you oh you use tick tock all day

SPEAKER_16: and i don't know what's a e-commerce site you know and and stitch fix and whatever uh we're going to show you ads related to etsy where you use etsy and pinterest all day we're going to show you a different set of ads for you know related apps and you can kind of understand how that is different but the fact that you're explaining yourself it's kind of like a hard position to be

SPEAKER_00: in with and then pretty soon it's like you use pinterest and you use etsy and we know everywhere you went and we know everyone you communicated with and we know every app you've ever downloaded

SPEAKER_18: and we have your contacts and you know i mean it's like but they don't because it's stored locally

SPEAKER_71: on your phone so that is the thing that apple is using to hold themselves accountable

SPEAKER_41: all of your data is on your phone in your icloud but they don't have access to it is what they're

SPEAKER_00: saying but that is why they should say that and prove it and say it again and prove it again right like that's what i'm saying is if you were getting into the ads business you need to be very intentional about how you communicate to your business partners and your consumers because like you just said this has been apple's big area of high ground this whole time yeah they're going to basically give up the

SPEAKER_78: high ground after they just built it they climbed the hill and now they're going to knock

SPEAKER_79: themselves off of it why like why do you advertise it exactly you're printing money

SPEAKER_80: yeah i don't get it it just feels like it's a dirty i'm sorry like it's a dirty little

SPEAKER_16: trench to climb into and if i'm apple one and i'm paying all this money to you tim cook yeah uh eddie q why if it's any cues in charges this message to eddie q if i'm paying why am i seeing ads

SPEAKER_15: the whole thing of apple is you hate ads and now you're giving me ads in news and you're giving me ads in the app store and you're giving me ads everywhere i don't want ads i'm paying you money for

SPEAKER_83: a subscription take them out premium i came here to be premium yes and now you're slipping them in

SPEAKER_84: and they might be coming to apple maps what they're gonna be ads at apple maps maybe uh come on apple

SPEAKER_87: german reported maybe and it would look something like yelp ads all right here we go so this is just

SPEAKER_16: a stupid stupid decision tim cook eddie q cut this somebody send it to them okay we are apple users

SPEAKER_15: fanboys girls etc nobody here wants ads we picked your platform because we don't want to be tracked and we don't want ads now you're making us have ads in the app store ads in news ads in the stock app

SPEAKER_80: enough with the meshuggah i don't want that i pay no ads too much for that like not to be an elitist

SPEAKER_00: we pay all the money so much money and the reason we pay it is because we don't want this like

SPEAKER_90: crappy android do not put it in i don't want apple maps no apple maps already sucks you can make it suck

SPEAKER_92: more come on yeah apple maps is awesome i will say i've been using it for several years now exclusively

SPEAKER_95: and i love it ways is so much better oh god i can't stand ways anyway the only thing that i like about

SPEAKER_78: ways is all cluttered up with ads and i don't want that i know but i want to optimize my route in real

SPEAKER_16: time i want to see multiple routes i want to understand it better it doesn't have good routing apple maps putting all this aside uh this business of apples with ads is getting big it's dangerous

SPEAKER_00: it's getting big and they want it to get even bigger so like look out more apparently todd teresi who is apple's bp of ads and now reports directly to eddie q is planning on growing ad revenue from its current four billion dollars a year yeah exactly look out to quote double digit billions

SPEAKER_16: all right eddie q all due respect to todd teresi fire todd teresi reassign him get rid of the ads

SPEAKER_07: business throw it in the garbage focus on making the services better finish apple maps make news better

SPEAKER_00: we're paying you some goddamn thing with fitness come on are you kidding me with that fitness app you're going to give me ads and that fitness app i can't even be like i'd like to do leg day

SPEAKER_07: like sucks i mean really so so such a horror steve jobs would never have let you do this

SPEAKER_109: full stop that's actually true steve jobs would have the if somebody brought this up hey you know what we could do we could put ads in between the stories and the you know and then when you go on your map we could put a taco bell there steve jobs was there i'm sorry could you say that one more time

SPEAKER_115: one more time you want the users to get ads is this guy can you get out he would have thrown you out

SPEAKER_15: of the meeting and he would have thrown an iphone at the back of your head on the way out exactly

SPEAKER_118: steve jobs doesn't want anything to do with ads he hates ads we all hate ads stop it we all hate

SPEAKER_09: that is a bad customer experience honestly people love to talk about what steve jobs would do and would not do and i will say this is one of the very few times when you are a hundred percent right he would have thrown these people out of the building now if it's a host red ad and eddie q is going to read

SPEAKER_15: the ad totally fine with it if eddie q wants to read an ad for casper mattresses i'm okay with it but

SPEAKER_127: yeah yeah host that red ads are just you know they're delightful but everything else you know

Jason Calacanis: look i understand that a publicly traded company and a capitalist society with a responsibility to shareholders has to keep making money apple's making plenty of money like i don't understand a couple of billion dollars is ultimately incremental double digit billions is still incremental revenue

SPEAKER_00: for apple it's not that could be made in other ways without ruining the consumer experience to this extent i don't know what it's really going to look like but it's really sad and then here's

SPEAKER_22: another option how about if i'm part of apple one you say would you like to see ads in any of these

SPEAKER_16: services sometimes the ads provide value in the app store the only time i would want to see an ad really is the app store i'll be honest because that would give me some signal that hey maybe there's somebody who's got an app that's really good and they really want to show it to me and they're willing to pay for it so maybe that's good signal but that's it i don't want to see it in news i don't want to see it in the stock app i certainly don't want to see it on maps just let if i'm apple one no ads yeah defaults matter by default so those are there's your uh little big things for the for the day and if you have little big things you've seen on the web just uh at mention us molly and i or you just send it to us producers at this week in startups.com we want to find these little nuggets of interesting things as jump off points for discussions because product is what drives the industry and so when you see some interesting product feature that you never heard of before and it's kind of interesting your job is to get it to us quickly and then we'll give

SPEAKER_71: you a shout out on the show and molly i would like you to be on the lookout as well little things that

SPEAKER_80: you find maybe something in your pole star you know something in your browser just got carplay

SPEAKER_00: they weren't lying i actually got an over-the-air software update for my car that delivered carplay

David Friedberg: what that is something that i would love to see when you get a thing that you were promised as a

SPEAKER_00: consumer how sad is it that you're just like wait what really it's we have a pretty low benchmark we

SPEAKER_144: really do we really do a low benchmark of what our expectations from little big things i love this segment little big things all right everybody we live in the future we live in the future and they

SPEAKER_90: always lead to big big things that's why little big things it could be something that annoys you too

SPEAKER_16: by the way i would like to see those like the ad stuff is the annoying thing well no no but here the ads today i presented two things i found in the same app right the ads annoying uh especially because they were like mortgage refi ads like really yeah those were janky um and like if it was if it was an ad it was an apple ad as an example or it was an ad for game of thrones i actually would have thought it was like con content so it would have been like a better with it so that might be a little nuance there if it's better ads i might feel better about it feels like you're doing a bad job todd teresi todd teresi bad job on the ads here do not allow schlocky ads in there you're using some kind of ad network or you're letting people self-serve just make it top tier ads and don't waste our time

SPEAKER_00: with garbage yeah see now you're compromising no ads i'm going full absolutist yeah next up on the show

SPEAKER_24: we got our guy lon harris for this week in streaming uh yes more huge news from hbo max and

SPEAKER_01: sith lord zasloff has come in and he has not been pleased with the progress of the dead star 14 rift 30 shows canned the sith lord is not pleased it's got the double lightsaber out hope i do not

SPEAKER_165: change the terms of the deal further get to work everybody and we think we may have picked a new

SPEAKER_00: show we're going to talk about the massive shows dropping soon including house of the dragon we might start watching that on sunday and amazon's lord of the rings series so much i'm excited about both

SPEAKER_170: of those so much tv so little time stick with us here's lon it's really important for founders to

SPEAKER_63: understand what sock two compliance is basically if you're a sas or services company that stores customer data in the cloud you need to be sock two verified from a third party so you can close major customers it's really simple if you're not sock two compliant you can't close big deals but sock two verification can be brutal the process is tedious it's time consuming and it can be very very expensive but now there's vanta vanta software makes it much easier to get and renew your sock two vanta customers on average on average vanta customers are sock two compliant in just two to four weeks compare that with three to five months without vanta and they partner with over two dozen audit firms who have been trained to file sock two reports directly within vanta and congratulations to our friend christina and the team over at vanta for raising their 110 million series b what an amazing company i was able to put a little bet in there i invested in the company myself here's the best part vanta is going to give you a thousand dollars off get a thousand dollars off at vanta.com twist that's vanta v-a-n-t-a.com slash twist for one thousand dollars off your sock too our pal ann harris

SPEAKER_16: is with us and molly is back from her triumphant recording co-hosting guest co-hosting i think i did this a couple years ago uh with caris fisher for the pivot podcast coming out this friday so don't listen to it go check out friday's episode yeah go listen it's great great great great good company

David Friedberg: to be in for august ah very nice very nice little crossover action and uh but no professor galloway

SPEAKER_00: right no professor no he's been off for all of august and they've had all this like really big name co-host and then also me and i was like this is oh no you're a big name ladies talking about no it's great that's great for the whole month of august yeah he took apparently this is like a new thing i've been listening a lot to catch up and i guess he's like never taken a month off before or something he took a whole month off but i keep seeing him on twitter i heard him talk about

SPEAKER_16: it he takes the month of august off to go to ibiza and take molly is what he said so it's a new

SPEAKER_80: thing we're just announcing sounds good by the way starting next year we're all going to be in

SPEAKER_187: italy doing mushrooms sure why not it's going to be a crossover event the crossover event of the

SPEAKER_193: season yeah sweet this is going to be like we're gonna be the crossover podcasts and psychedelics in ibiza yeah uh but i appreciate it shout out to prop g i mean for a guy who's 66 years old to be in ibiza

SPEAKER_16: taking molly is extraordinary so of course lon is uh thank you and she was a narrator and she was never

SPEAKER_15: invited back yeah she's never in i don't hate prop g just so we're clear i thought he was a put on you

SPEAKER_165: know in the same way that jim kramer does like antics i thought he's doing antics to make a point and i thought if i made jokes about his antics like that would all be taking good fun but apparently he's super sensitive to me pointing out the fact that he thinks j crew is going to be a better bet and a better j trade than amazon or that tesla and uber and robin hood are going to zero and they're not so

SPEAKER_50: anyway i thought that guy could take a joke anyway but you know what people get old they get grumpy

SPEAKER_204: you know when you're 68. oh my god all right so here's lon listen if i was 70 i might be grumpy too

SPEAKER_206: i'm a little jealous of that body i mean for somebody who is like i'm sorry have you seen

SPEAKER_122: the new j crew director like you need to trade that she's a beast anyway if i was 72 and i had a chest

SPEAKER_11: like that i take my shirt off as well just do you hate me all right so lon is this week in zas love

SPEAKER_209: yeah we can just change the segment it's a he's the newsmaker every week now all right tell us molly

SPEAKER_00: cue it up please thank you yeah welcome lon welcome back to the show lon harris uh of course writes the inside streaming newsletter podcast host of binge boys weekly guide to all things streaming or in this case uh this weekend's ass love so okay let's talk some more about hbo and hbo max and what this is the murderous nightmare of a man that jason loves is doing over my kind of guy over at hbo apparently uh they have now laid off 14 of staff under hbo and hbo max's chief content officer casey bloys all of those people are being laid off the cuts are impacting about 70 employees mostly this was this news broke a few days ago i think but we have just been hanging on to it to talk to you about it long at first we had a moment of panic thinking like wait is this the boys but it seems like it's the unscripted and live action family programming departments we're going to talk about more title

Jason Calacanis: cuts um in a minute but what do you have what are you thinking about this these staff cuts right now

SPEAKER_217: you knew the live action kids and family programming was kind of on its way out they'd already started

SPEAKER_219: canceling a lot of those shows and they weren't really that heavy into doing that kind of stuff anyway i guess it's just sort of a strategic decision like we we're not competitive already with the people that are doing this full time that are really focused on kids live action we've got cartoon network so animation is sort of gonna be our bread and butter for family content and so that's sort of been pushed aside that one we already knew the big news here was that yeah basically there's not going to be any more hbo max specific reality programming they're just going to handle all reality non-fiction content through the massive and robust discovery plus team they already have that

SPEAKER_217: specializes in that content so i think i think this is probably the most obvious cut that we knew was coming because obviously it's sort of a duplicate group hbo max's non-fiction department and then discovery's already much larger and non-fiction department with already all of these

SPEAKER_219: relationships food network hgtv discovery channel all already feeding into that team so it sort of

SPEAKER_217: makes sense like well yeah if you wanted to do a new culinary reality show why not just let the team

SPEAKER_00: from food network do it got it so this is basic like merger stuff right here this is just duplicative like nah this is not a moment to freak out on twitter about save your fire i mean like look i feel like all

SPEAKER_222: all of those people are great people i'm sure and like it you know it sucks to see a lot of people

SPEAKER_219: getting laid off so i don't mean to minimize it from that angle but yeah this is very traditional merger redundancy stuff where it's like well now they have two teams making reality shows and they probably don't need that and if you're already looking to save money that's like an obvious place you'd start as well these guys made selena and chef but if we want to do another food and that it is worth noting some of these hbo max reality shows there are a few that are pretty big hits

SPEAKER_217: that will probably stick around that's one that i mentioned uh selena gomez has her cooking show where she has celebrity chefs come on that's already gonna have a new season i think in a few weeks and that one stuff like that will keep going it's just in terms of new development it'll go through discovery

SPEAKER_37: makes sense i mean we wouldn't even be talking about this if it was the accounting hr you know or the it department those departments get merged and consolidated in mergers all the time but because those are not fancy dancy positions that are vocal you know or high profile we we kind of just like oh yeah whatever you lost your job and you're part of the legal department boo-hoo for

SPEAKER_16: you you you got a big severance package move on you know this is notable because these are creatives and there's a lot of emotion that comes into and i don't and when i say there's a lot of emotion that goes into it that's not a dig uh i think emotion is shrank right yeah i mean you put your heart and soul into making things these are your babies man it's really hard to see them go away uh and i think

SPEAKER_219: that is you know it's not uh it's not a question of the popularity or the success of these shows a lot

SPEAKER_217: of these shows are doing well or have fan base it's just a matter of well this there's now two teams

SPEAKER_37: working for one streaming platform so yes yeah it's it's this is the hard work of mergers it's the

SPEAKER_235: hard work that a zazz love i hope i'm pronouncing his name correctly but i like that's love i'm gonna

SPEAKER_50: go with zazz love yeah it sounds more super villainy so i think he feels to me like a mentor like if i could if i could have like three mentors it'd be like zazz love sleutman who else is completely maybe

SPEAKER_01: bill gates circa 87 i would go lex luther steve jobs circa mobile me when they like i would like to be in

SPEAKER_50: that room when he fired every mobile me i like those crucible moments where like the the the hero

SPEAKER_241: and in my mind the rest of the ceo like i don't know i don't know if he comes off like the hero

SPEAKER_16: uh i would like the anti-hero to uh yeah i like the anti-hero darkness of this no it's it's great for the business it sucks for the people involved always you know everybody has our sympathies but you know i have a hard time in the western world when high paid people get their six months of severance and go do yoga and go on vacation and then get a higher paying job after that like that's all we've known our lives like so i don't i don't feel terrible for them i always feel worse

SPEAKER_219: when a factory shuts down you know and we move it offshore the top people will probably jump to other streaming platforms and other reality tv departments i don't know about everybody this is a big group of

SPEAKER_234: people there are probably going to be some people who this is their their final entertainment gig and they're going to move back home and get a job locally like look that happens that's the la life

SPEAKER_00: that's i mean if you know any like hollywood writers you know that that is almost you know unquestionably true that for some people it's going to be like all right this is it because the top people will consolidation ultimately does lead to fewer employment opportunities and but it's what's notable i think about this in many ways and we're going to get to even more notable is the kind of like rejection of any sunk cost fallacy whatsoever it's like if it's not going to be good for the business long term it is out and it does not matter that it was you know 300 million dollars already invested in cnn plus it does not matter that fat girl was already done and in the can for the most part like not gonna do it and there's just there is a really clean ruthlessness about that like it doesn't work i don't care what you spent on it up to the state well said well better than i

SPEAKER_37: could even say it i mean i think the sunken cost fallacy gets leaders in trouble and the more creative you are the more tied to that you would be yeah uh the sun cost fallacy is you know it's a rough one

SPEAKER_52: it's a rough one and so and he is immune apparently to it um but speaking of cuts okay now let's talk about the stuff that is gonna be on twitter yeah this is the real sunk cost stuff this is the real sunk cost stuff where it's like this may end up coming with a cost hbo max is removing 36 titles

SPEAKER_00: including 20 originals from its streaming services so this is like they're not canceling projects they're like taking stuff that's already been done and streaming and just disappearing it and we knew

SPEAKER_219: about some of these like camping vinyl mrs fletcher run they'd already announced that those which are original hbo max shows we're gonna go away or hbo shows uh but now we've got a list of yeah 36 more titles including 20 that only lived on hbo max and it includes like animate the cartoon network animated series infinity train which has a lot of fans was was popular summer camp island another uh cartoon network original that had an audience that elmo late night talk show parody they did the not too late show with elmo uh uncle grandpa uh a well-known cartoon network show my dinner with urve that show where peter dinklage played urve villages is leaving so i mean uh like notable

SPEAKER_217: content that i'm sure they're basing this in some part on the data like it's not being watched as much as other stuff and so they feel like they could save money okay i've never met anybody who saw mrs

SPEAKER_267: fletcher and when i meet somebody who saw vinyl we geek out at how awesome it was

SPEAKER_193: you know like oh my god you did see it because i felt like vinyl like i don't know why that didn't

SPEAKER_268: hit it was so good so well done it's just like uh you know there's so many of these shows and and

SPEAKER_219: i think some of them they get they get by people close enough is another animated series that hbo max is going to cut and for some of these shows close enough in summer camp island uh and infinity trade are good examples they're they don't live anywhere else they're they're not on physical media

SPEAKER_234: they're not going to be on other platforms because hbo max has said they're not going to start licensing these things so they're just gone so like bobby cannavale is completely underrated

SPEAKER_52: that is accurate but so i have a like a i don't this is a business question for lon like i don't

SPEAKER_219: understand how this saves them money it's the residual that what what i don't know either what variety is suggesting is that it's the residual payments to the actors and the creatives that even though they don't have to pay like tv syndication because it doesn't live on television they do have to pay if

SPEAKER_217: you're leaving something on hbo max they do have to pay out some form of payment ongoing to the creative

SPEAKER_219: team to the actors whatever they negotiated so katherine han when she signed on to make mrs fletcher

SPEAKER_217: had some deal like if this lives on your streaming platform you got to kick me a certain thousand this amount of money per month or whatever i don't know what the deal is so do we think that that's

SPEAKER_94: like so much money that it's worth like we're saying literally disappearing shows that no one can

SPEAKER_275: ever watch again that is the crux of the question is is we don't know what kind of savings he's putting

SPEAKER_219: together by taking all of these shows and not paying the residuals anymore obviously somebody there feels

SPEAKER_217: like it's enough and these are i i'm assuming they're looking at viewership and it's like what are the least viewed things we could get rid of and save on residuals i have a theory list i have a theory

SPEAKER_16: and i have some back of the envelope math there is no way that the residuals are 10 million dollars

SPEAKER_283: no right we would agree per show no these are these are going to be small percentages of whatever the

SPEAKER_26: original fees were there is no way the residuals are a hundred thousand dollars per show it's got to

SPEAKER_50: be more than that or why would they even negotiate it right i would say that's probably you're talking

SPEAKER_165: about movie stars and stuff in a lot of these cases yeah i can't i mean why would you even have residuals of like a hundred thousand in total for miss fletcher i'll give you an example one of the

SPEAKER_219: shows that's getting pulled is an animated series called little ellen no celebrities on it but it's inspired by the young life of ellen degenerate so ellen degenerate has some deal where she gets paid

SPEAKER_217: every month for little ellen being on there and they're gonna save money by backing out of that deal

SPEAKER_50: got it so if it was 10 million it would be 360 million a year okay that's a that's a reasonable number to care about right if that went to their payments for their debt it's a it's a it's a portion of their debt payment right and this company has 50 billion in debt if it was 500 million to be one percent of their debt right so then it would be meaningful so and we know for it's not three it's not five million dollars right because that would be such a de minimis amount they would just leave it up there wouldn't be worth having this bad feelings so it's got to be between those two numbers five five million and five hundred millions in saving a hundred million in savings to create this kind of bad will is like okay yeah i can see it for 25 million i don't see it so anyway i put the number here you know low hundreds of millions maybe in order for it be significant but here's my other theory when you merge these services and you try to make one singular service i'm guessing that you would then need to go renegotiate with potentially ellen degenerate or it's a murky situation for her ellen show okay now it's hbo max discovery or whatever they're gonna call it whatever it is yeah i'll just call it hbo uh discovery yeah but anyway if i'm gonna call i'm gonna call it hbo discovery that

SPEAKER_16: makes the most sense to me so the hbo discovery bundle they probably they might have to clear the rights since they own 100 of the discovery stuff maybe they don't have to clear it with hbo but maybe the hbo stuff the way they did their contracts because they're more friendly to artists maybe they have to go then renegotiate the discovery portion and there'll be so many more viewers maybe it's based on viewership in some way so if the ellen show gets seen by 200 million people maybe you pay a different price where it's available to 200 million people you get a different price than 50 million so there could be an escalation when these two things get put together that would be punitive and so what they do is they say yeah we'll take it off beep that out please sorry uh if you're taking it off then you can negotiate harder okay we'll put it back on but we're not putting it back on

SPEAKER_219: and paying you five times what we're paying you yeah it's just a theory i mean yeah we know that this is going to have a ripple effect in terms of like creatives notice things like this and the idea

SPEAKER_217: that you could create something and then it will get pulled from public view and not even be visible uh the creators of summer camp island already started posting about it's like it's like you

SPEAKER_304: know that doesn't even exist years of our lives are just pulled from public view in the black hole

SPEAKER_217: just gone right there there it is so uh yeah so i mean i think this is the sort of thing you're taking a risk or to to back up what jason was saying you're putting people on notice you're you're making it known that look you're gonna have to bear this in mind when you negotiate with wb discovery moving forward that if you want your work to live on in perpetuity you have to take a cut on the residual

SPEAKER_219: expectations or whatever i don't know but it is it's definitely an ongoing conversation that's now happening about whether your work is going to live on on these streaming platforms or vanish from view

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SPEAKER_01: when you think about it r-e-v-e-l-o.com twist they offer a hundred percent risk-free 14-day trial period if you're not satisfied you pay nothing r-e-v-e-l-o.com twist that probably makes the most sense

SPEAKER_00: though i could imagine that without it i mean because digital distribution rights and negotiations are unbelievably complicated they're way more complicated when tv is involved but i mean at some point and my knowledge here is a little bit outdated because it's from when i was like you know talking with cbs and they were starting to just move but it was like literally different rights for is it on an ipad is it on a phone is it on tv is it on and so i could imagine a universe in which they're saying there are all these shows they've just been hanging out here not getting big numbers and it was not a big deal because like you said the residuals were like a lot but not a lot de minimis but that it could start to get a lot more complicated when every lawyer for every person involved comes and says oh you have a new streaming service now that's a new deal yes this is why netflix is in a great

SPEAKER_37: position because they just told everybody netflix just said we buy from you for global distribution you have no residuals the end we're going to pay you a high price we own it forever no residuals that's my understanding of the netflix deal right and they said we're going to pay you more up front so we're going to be the best pay in town but we're going to be the least we're going to be zero back

SPEAKER_16: end and we're not going to actually give you the metrics so that's the other thing that tweaks a lot of people is they don't you don't know the metrics they will selectively put out metrics when they want to appease wall street or whatever oh this is the most streamed show ever or whatever but they do not give creatives any insight into how much they're being watched on netflix this is the idea behind

SPEAKER_217: these like creator mega deals like ryan murphy or kenya barris or shonda rhimes it's like a dump truck full of money up front but then that's it it's not a traditional hollywood deal where they keep having little paydays down the road for the next decade you don't own the simpsons right it's just like here it is there's your money now we keep everything that you've produced forever without

Jason Calacanis: a doubt gonna shake up the relationship with creators like no doubt about it i mean i think everybody when

SPEAKER_00: you're in media like you kind of know that if another platform is in charge of your stuff you don't own that you know and you've negotiated the rights and what you know you don't own it but to throw an a-bomb in the relationship like that it's you know at least there was sort of an uneasy truce like you make a thing it lives somewhere right and this is a very super villain move to just be like oh yeah it's the nuclear option nice little show that you poured your heart and soul into in the words of that creator like it's in the basement no one's ever gonna see it

SPEAKER_234: it's in the basement it's locked down with the like the one thing i would add the one thing i think that is still a question mark on all this is these ad supported tears that are coming ad supported

SPEAKER_219: streaming grew way faster everybody assumed in the early days that netflix meant no one ever wanted to watch an ad again and we were all gonna pay premium for subscriptions to get rid of all advertising and then consumers have basically said the opposite that they're willing to pay a lot less and watch some ads every hour so the assumption is that these shows don't have you can't make enough money on them to be worth leaving them up because they don't earn enough to pay the residuals and will save the money

SPEAKER_217: by pulling them but if mrs fletcher would get enough ad revenue to pay off the residuals and then a little bit less it might be worth leaving up somewhere so i don't know we'll see how this shakes out over the next several years we may see some of these shows they're saying now they're not going to license anything or whatever i think it's entirely possible you could see shows that are

SPEAKER_219: getting cut from premium services like hbo discovery winding up on a on a 2b on an amazon freebie on a roku channel on one of these other destinations i mean you know or you could put them up for purchase

SPEAKER_37: right if you really love this cartoon series so much right buy the season for 30 bucks on

SPEAKER_219: uh exactly and i mean i i think you know i think we probably will come at some point to some kind of version of that where if you really do love something it doesn't necessarily vaporize it's available it's just not on hbo max for everybody makes sense all right there's a lot of

SPEAKER_16: exciting things coming and i have been so overwhelmed with the amount of great content

SPEAKER_50: that i have forgotten i literally cannot keep in my mind anymore molly what good stuff is coming down the pipe i know because i'm just getting over i'm in the afterglow of obi-wan i'm caught up with

SPEAKER_16: better call saul except for the finale which i started last night but i fell asleep uh because

SPEAKER_203: i've been working out so much and you know it's not a flex but um i literally tried to watch the

SPEAKER_339: finale of better call saul three times i'm gonna do it oh i kept and i had nothing to do with how

SPEAKER_341: exciting it was because i kept rewinding the same 10 minutes you ever do that in bed you're riding the same 10 minutes yeah and you just keep falling asleep you're like god damn it i want to watch this great you got it you'll get to it you'll get i know i know um but putting that aside i am delighted

SPEAKER_50: at the velocity at which content is going to smash into my brain in the fall so much i had no idea that game of thrones the sequel is upon us lord of the rings the power the rings of power is upon us

SPEAKER_348: i like this is like and then andor is upon us yeah well she-hulk premiered today and yeah oh

SPEAKER_219: my daughters are so excited she-hulk is out right now i thought it was pretty good uh that was today yeah we've got uh we've got house of the dragon is sunday uh rings yeah this week rings of power is uh right over their horizon we've got that that uh hulu's mike tyson series is next week with uh trevante roads the guy from moonlight what is that biographical series about iron mike tyson the life and times of mike tyson starring trevante roads who was uh the middle the the middle no no the third guy from moonlight you know the moonlight it's like three sections he's three

SPEAKER_351: ages he's the the adult not a great film but okay we even start it's a great film it was okay it

SPEAKER_284: was good oh it was good i don't think that's best picture sorry get out of here man uh we've got

SPEAKER_219: disney's pinocchio coming up soon with tom hanks we've got cobra kai a new season of cobra kai coming out soon american gigolo that uh showtime series with john bernthal based on the paul schrader movie

SPEAKER_158: uh you know atlanta the final season of atlanta my knowledge is this deep and you just went

SPEAKER_217: you dug the hole you dug the hole is an 80s film from paul schrader starring richard gear where he plays a sex worker in los angeles uh well-regarded sort of drama from the 80s paramount is doing a spin-off series where it's like it's a it's a sequel series so john bernthal is going

SPEAKER_219: to play the same character you know like a few years after the original american gigolo series

SPEAKER_00: all right well let's talk about the one that everybody's going to talk about which is the the house of whatever the house of the dragon premiering sunday so we finally have sundays back in the game of thrones universe one but there is zero incentive left i'm assuming at this point for george

SPEAKER_223: rr martin to ever finish the original series since today he did an interview where he said uh i don't

SPEAKER_275: know when i'm gonna finish them stop asking me for a for a date right never i'm trying my best

SPEAKER_24: leave just retire just be like no i'm not going to just retire he got a george lucas this thing and

SPEAKER_222: just hand it off to somebody he trusts it's just it's so hard i'm sure because he got so much heat from

SPEAKER_219: that show that now he's getting phone call constantly we want you to do this we want you to work on this we got this video game we want your name on this and so you know how do you go back and focus on sitting in a quiet room and writing books when you've got 800 offers to do tv shows and films and games and everything jk rowland figured it out michael crying figured it out

SPEAKER_372: she well i don't know apparently there were seven of these books or movies bravo and there wait wait

SPEAKER_375: hold on a second i mean she has a content in the mind i mean she's still making things but they're

SPEAKER_377: not it's a shadow sequels do incredible what's the the prequels no the fantastic beast movies they

SPEAKER_378: don't even they were supposed to be five of them they don't even know if they're gonna bother making

SPEAKER_379: the next oh okay sorry that my bad information i thought those did well too that that franchise is

SPEAKER_219: not what it was i mean it's still hugely popular there's eight harry potter films seven books but they split the seventh movie into two so deathly hallows one and two and then there are three fantastic beasts movies that have come out after uh that she wrote she writes those movies they're not

SPEAKER_283: based on books but she writes i'm not talking about her politics i'm just talking about her

SPEAKER_385: how prolific she is we're talking about the shows she broke her brain i i took it there

SPEAKER_219: but totally separate from how awful her politics are uh i also feel like this fantastic beast

SPEAKER_217: franchise is not it has not been the follow-up that we'd all hoped for from from i mean i just

SPEAKER_00: want to be clear though to go back to game of thrones that we're not even asking george rr martin to come up with some amazing like new i'm just saying you stopped halfway bro halfway yeah i read all the books like i'm like plowing through them i did not know going in that they did not end and so i'm like i'm in the whatever the fifth book and i'm like getting you know they're huge and it's getting smaller and smaller the amount that i have left to read and i'm like i feel like he might want to start wrapping up some of these 93 sansa's still in trouble sansa's still in trouble exactly and then it just ends and i'm like wait i just read five books and that's only half the story and then it's never gonna get done and the crazy thing about this

SPEAKER_219: new show is it's based on one of the books he wrote like one of the spin-offs that he wrote after he was finished with the main books this is fire and blood the like targaryen history of the

SPEAKER_52: targaryen dynasty spin-off that he did which to be clear is going to be awesome because book three

Jason Calacanis: is the best one no he can shut up i'm over him now i only want to talk about just leave the guy

SPEAKER_219: alone let him a lot of the fans have now come around to this idea that it's benny off and weiss the guys who created game of thrones the series we've shifted a lot of blame over to them and including george r martin who recently was like they started ignoring me they stopped taking my calls after a

SPEAKER_52: while uh so but who's ever fault it is can we agree that at a measly 20 million dollar per episode

SPEAKER_00: for the 10 episode season uh house of the dragon's gonna stink i'm just kidding but it is astonishing to me that we have gotten to the point in content creation where these episodes cost 20 million dollars each to make but that compared to other major projects like stranger things season four at 30 million dollars an episode or lord of the rings the rings of power at 58 million dollars per episode

SPEAKER_405: 3x yeah that 20 million and up is like i guess it might be fine well what's going on let's do the

SPEAKER_16: math here i i can't tell the difference between these and movies anymore yeah you could you could

SPEAKER_50: somebody recut the obi-wan and i know that was done on those crazy screens but somebody recut it into a movie i think if i went to the movies and saw it i would be pretty pleased and certainly with game of thrones that looked like a movie to me uh especially in the last couple seasons an hour of content for 20 million a movie's two hours 40 million if you can make a mark you can't make a marvel movie for 40 million you can't make a star wars movie for 40 million yeah sure it actually seems like 20 million an hour even 60 million an hour would be 120 million for a lord of the rings movie i think the lord of

SPEAKER_16: the rings movies those three correct me if i'm wrong lon i think it was like a six or seven hundred

David Friedberg: million dollar budget back in the day yeah so they were at a hundred they saved money by making all

SPEAKER_217: three back to back but it was still a ridiculously huge project years and i mean if you think about how much was practical like all those locations were real they built all those elf costumes and all that armor behind the scenes they had workshops going around the clock of just the physical props and the

SPEAKER_15: stuff you need to make lord middle earth come to molly do we know is the lord of the rings the rings of

SPEAKER_16: power using the same ip and do they have the rights to that ip you know the aesthetics the armor the look and feel as the original series because i'm looking at it and i'm saying those are the same orcs those

SPEAKER_50: are the same elves it's the same look and feel to me almost exactly they paid the tolkien estate so they

SPEAKER_219: own the rights to tolkien's writing not all of tolkien's writing just tolkien's writing as it relates to some of these aspects that they're developing so you know but they didn't this is not new line so like they don't have the rights to peter jackson who owns new line i thought new line

SPEAKER_274: was owned by hbo yeah warner brother discovery but this new lord of the ring show is amazon

SPEAKER_00: right what's interesting is that literally today there's news that the lord of the rings hobbit and tolkien ip are all being acquired uh in this like late night bombshell by embracer group which i've never heard of but it's going to acquire all of this uh right now let's see the it's acquiring it all from the sol zent company which has been the rights holder for the franchise since

SPEAKER_417: 1976. and they're the ones that produced the jackson like they they collaborated on the jackson films

SPEAKER_223: they sawl zent's or they yeah so the embracer group not the embracer group so they saw the embracer

SPEAKER_52: group it also just bought a bunch of the square enix western teams i it's a video game company oh okay

SPEAKER_421: well that makes sense because how do you disney or hbo or amazon not buy that i don't know but that's a little bit of breaking streaming news yeah i'm glad you asked that question because i just different

SPEAKER_219: because lord like that's the rights to to adapt that book's story whereas amazon bought like the cimmerillion related stuff that they're adapting so it is like we could have a bunch of different

SPEAKER_275: lord of the rings middle earth projects going because they're different tolkien stories in the

SPEAKER_87: same setting lon do you know the way that the tolkien estate is set up with their ip isn't there

SPEAKER_422: something like the film rights are different from the tv rights are different from the video game

SPEAKER_229: rights they're like that's what i was saying about new line like this this is not being made in

SPEAKER_219: collaboration with the jackson films in any way in fact peter jackson said he like had a conversation with the people who are making the amazon show and then they like stop talking to him and he doesn't have anything to do with it so to answer jason's original question like they couldn't use howard shore's middle earth theme in the amazon show they can take their inspiration from the armor from tolkien's

SPEAKER_217: writings but they can't watch lord of the rings and then rip off those costumes but wait a second

SPEAKER_284: it looks exactly the same the orcs and the armor with the exception that's how tolkien describes them

SPEAKER_278: i guess would be the argument that we're basing it on the book not the design of weather okay this

SPEAKER_00: is interesting though there's a piece in the streamable.com that says it is curious that amazon lost out on the bidding for the remaining rights to you would think they would know what if this is a

SPEAKER_219: huge hit you don't want to do a sequel series where you jump ahead and do aragorn of course you would

SPEAKER_52: like right why wouldn't you but so then why wouldn't amazon pony up i wonder yeah anyway

David Friedberg: this is developing more news as events warrant uh breaker group uh breaking news has got a 870 billion dollar sek i guess that's swedish market cap i don't know what that equals in

SPEAKER_421: u.s but this could be a j-trade i was just gonna say i'm like are you about to j-trade

SPEAKER_366: right now well square edix is a lot like those are the final fantasy games and yeah that's a big

SPEAKER_00: deal and like that's a lot of valuable ip there too the company said in a press release opportunities

Jason Calacanis: include exploring additional movies based on iconic characters such as gandalf aragorn gollum galadriel ewin ewan and other characters from the literary works of jr r tolkien and some of those are

SPEAKER_234: also in the earlier writing so they can be in the rings of power but they could also be in hobbit and lord of the rings stories yeah exactly because they're so i feel like don't get too attached to

SPEAKER_00: whatever you watch on amazon because clearly there's not they're not going to make a sequel since they didn't pony up for the rights i mean it turns out a thousand years they're in the second

SPEAKER_366: age so they could make second age stuff for decades i mean it's a whole different age phew anyway super

SPEAKER_00: interesting news about uh about that and then let's actually speaking of super interesting news let's wrap with a pretty crazy streaming stat that also uh this news came out today just in time to have you online which is that streaming has surpassed cable for the first time according to new data from nielsen for the month of july streaming among american tv households represented a record 34.8 share percent share of total consumption while cable and broadcast came in at 34.4 percent and 21.6

SPEAKER_394: respectively it's happened we've tipped did you see there there was also a report the other day that

SPEAKER_234: uh this the average age of of cw viewer on broadcast you guys want to you want to take a guess

SPEAKER_219: 50 58 years old 58 years old and that's c that's cw which is it's like all it's river riverdale in the flash so that's younger skew fox it turns out is the youngest skewing and it's like 55 or 56 it's just that the average age of broadcast tv viewers has gotten so old that it's dragging all

SPEAKER_00: these averages the cw that's amazing all these i'm just imagining like a bunch of like 58 year olds just sitting around watching all the vampire shows or whatever so they you know cw just got

SPEAKER_219: just got purchased so that they were releasing that like obviously the business model of making all of these teen shows when your average viewer is 60 years old we're gonna have to tweak this this

SPEAKER_167: model is the idea nick reports that as a young person having cable is like an old

SPEAKER_00: delicacy like having a record player or a louis the 14th style chair yeah it's already like a niche

Jason Calacanis: thing like i don't expect people to have cable at this point still it's pretty notable it's a notable moment we've tipped like we've been talking about this for i don't know what nigh on two decades now

SPEAKER_00: like when are we gonna when is streaming gonna win today turns out there are a few of these networks

SPEAKER_219: that are in this interesting place amc is one of them we were just talking about better call saw where amc is not baked into any of the big subscription platforms you'd have to have amc plus to stream better call saw i feel like those are the last shows keeping people on cable like once though

SPEAKER_217: that last group finds its way to a big stream yellowstone was one of those two right yeah yeah

SPEAKER_37: whoever made it sold it to somebody else and then they can't even have it on paramount plus or

SPEAKER_219: something paramount network sold the rights to netflix so the year after it airs on paramount

SPEAKER_217: network those episodes go to netflix but it can't put it on paramount plus even though it would be the biggest draw to paramount plus because it's the biggest show on cable this is why all of this

SPEAKER_00: is why now that we have tipped we are going to have to examine a little more closely the thing where if you subscribe to all the streaming channels you will pay over well over a hundred dollars a month

SPEAKER_37: right yeah all right lon great job hey uh on our uh on my little 5k development project yes crypto i

SPEAKER_15: will check in yes i just want to do a little check in here i've been thinking about it i'm wondering since the other project has been picked up yes new agency is developing it right right and there are so many other shoes dropping in crypto i have an idea for you what if we made just a crypto series that

SPEAKER_26: just covers that moment in time and weaves together a number of stories oh wow i'm i'm one step ahead of

SPEAKER_356: you okay we have already been me and my creative team uh which is me my friend drew uh we've already

SPEAKER_219: been workshopping this very idea of okay what if it was rather than just one crypto project gone frothy and then wrong what if we tried to follow you know several projects in an ongoing way and we figure out some through lines that kind of pull the audience through i i feel like this is the way i have a

David Friedberg: suggestion there which is including law enforcement who are chasing these people i was just gonna say

SPEAKER_266: like a procedural turn are you are you pitching a straight up like law and order colon crypto or

SPEAKER_219: more like a drama series but with that as like a hook i'm wondering if a drama series like

SPEAKER_15: the sopranos right or the shield yes but not a procedural is what i was getting no not a

SPEAKER_07: procedural means it's like every episode is like like a csi or a law and order like crypto team

SPEAKER_219: comes in and it's like all right this week we've got this damn if you had a bunch of people who are

SPEAKER_37: like oh geez in crypto they were into it then you know they one goes down the dark path one's going

SPEAKER_219: down the light path one's in venture capital i mean that's what i'm thinking is you you structure it around it's a group of people that are all learning about crypto together in some way shape or form and

SPEAKER_217: then we're following all of them as they join different projects good and exactly good and bad

SPEAKER_14: noble one does the monkey project so the one goofy guy who nobody takes seriously winds up making the

SPEAKER_16: griff that makes the most money right that nobody saw coming the great the monkey one the board apes

SPEAKER_478: well i'm just saying a monkey one one that's based on primates and nfts this is inspired by shrew

SPEAKER_479: events not any specific yacht clubs i understand no but somebody else makes the see i think the

SPEAKER_165: feature somebody else makes the bitcoin one and you kind of we can make up our own who is satoshi so

SPEAKER_16: i think we start with satoshi is a group of people they have the goods on each other they are they cannot break their science of who satoshi is it's five of them one goes off and does ethereum one goes off and does nfts one goes off and does an ico pure crime you're pitching like an alternate history of

SPEAKER_50: cryptocurrency like a fiction exploration that's where we get we have people tell us like back you know stories that are just too crazy and then we adapt those crazy stories kind of like the mafia movies have done right the mafia movies right tell me the craziest thing okay so you're thinking like

SPEAKER_360: this guy in the desert and here's what we did before we buried him like a casino a blow there it is casino

SPEAKER_217: blow pull back the curtain on all this crazy time and okay well we'll talk about this one i think

SPEAKER_490: i think okay i'll go talk about offline i think this is a good idea that's fun i think we secured the ip

SPEAKER_491: by stop by talking about it in public now yeah that's it no more well done all right thanks lon

SPEAKER_02: everybody follow lon at lon's and uh thanks for listening and make sure to tune in tomorrow we've got

SPEAKER_15: a really fun variety show because friday yes we'll have a launch accelerator founder interviewed by molly i'll do some ask jason questions and then of course if it's friday it's rachel and okay boomer you know

SPEAKER_00: we got a little bit of everything to take into the weekend it's gonna be a great show all right see you you tomorrow