SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Jason you're gonna send the zoom link great. I'm gonna make left in that That'll take 70 minutes, and then I'm gonna stretch and shower. I'll be ready at 1 15. Okay. Awesome. Thanks

SPEAKER_03: I just puked in my coffee a little bit, but okay

SPEAKER_07: It's just that he does he gets seconds and minutes mixed up, you know

SPEAKER_13: We're ready to the all in podcast. We got our cold open. Somebody scream. That's gonna be a highlight. That's the cold open

SPEAKER_16: That should be the cold open

SPEAKER_20: That should be the cold in paradise

SPEAKER_18: Oh my god

SPEAKER_21: By the way, that part of these seconds includes your mouth brushing his teeth

SPEAKER_22: Fuck you

SPEAKER_34: Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. It is another edition episode 34 of the all in podcast with us today

SPEAKER_37: David Friedberg the queen of quinoa the science Sorcerer of the pod rain man david sachs hot off his 60th birthday bash in los angeles

SPEAKER_43: Sorry, sorry that was just going by me his looks and the dictator chamov palihapitiya fresh off of writing editorials about himself in bloomberg Congratulations, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Give yourself a pat on the back for that exceptional

SPEAKER_46: Friedberg is not my favorite bestie because he actually showed up my birthday party and like you guys. Oh, i'm sorry, david david

SPEAKER_48: How do you expect people to react in 24 hours to fly to a different city?

SPEAKER_49: Yeah, it was a surprise. It was a surprise birthday surprise to the guest

SPEAKER_51: It was a surprise to all the invitees as well Let me tell you guys what you missed out on. Okay. All right, wait, let's give background sax is now

SPEAKER_53: 69 50 years old

SPEAKER_54: 49

SPEAKER_58: And his wife

SPEAKER_37: A last-minute birthday party after i bought tickets to the knicks And the nets and invited family members go ahead And now we're the bad guys. We fly down for the birthday

SPEAKER_62: They you know, they shuttle you on the cars from the plane to the to the house We get to the house long driveway. There's like dudes making like watermelon tequila beverages while you hang out and wait There's some dude from america's got talent playing the guitar or playing the violin in the driveway The bathrooms are nicer than the bathrooms. I have at home. You know these port-a-potties. They rented in the driveway And you know, we're all waiting of course sax is late two and a half hours to his own party We're all hanging out and starving But then we go into the party sit down for dinner And then who shows up as our you know dinner experience? It's the guy that won americans. I american idol two nights before So no one knows who this guy is except 17 year old girls and myself So I popped out of my seat. I'm like, oh my god. It's that guy from american idol I had to rush into the backstage to get a photo with him. You know sax's garage Um, and then they have like uh coolio shows up So we're like sitting down to dinner for course two All of a sudden pop comes out of the woodwork coolio. I lose my shit. I run up on the coolio fan The dance floor. I grew up coolio like it's like high school jams, man I mean that's like in the car cruising and at this point i'm like seven tequila watermelon tequila's in So i'm like oh my god I'm on the dance floor, you know jamming up to coolio I think coolio thought I was sax, you know, because he's like, you know, he's like oh two south african jews You guys all look the same coolio comes up starts high-fiving me and hugging me And i'm like, what's up coolio? Oh my god. This is like a dream come true He's like hugging me his face is right next to my face. I didn't know what to say And I like i'm i'm i've had a little bit of tequila and I and I whisper in coolio's ear. I'm like, oh, no, I appreciate I appreciate you

SPEAKER_80: Oh my god, I think I saw freeberg throw his panties on stage too

SPEAKER_83: Wow, what a nerd I don't know what to say. I mean, what do you say? Well, clearly clearly you don't know what to say

SPEAKER_48: Can I go back to the part where you said that you were dancing and instantly the image? I had was julio louie dreyfus Yeah

SPEAKER_90: We have to find that security footage

SPEAKER_62: Mark mcgrath from sugar raid performing and he had that dude from cool and the gang performing And the game showed up to give sax a birthday wish What an incredible the rapper the game the game came. Yeah, the game

SPEAKER_46: I was supposed to do a movie together like 15 years ago and you know never panned out

SPEAKER_80: But he still remembered me and he came by to say hi on my birthday. It was pretty incredible very nice

SPEAKER_62: Have you guys ever met sax's parents?

SPEAKER_100: Yeah, of course at his 40th. Yeah, they're so nice like they're so nice We spent so much time with them. We loved hanging out with them Um, it was a really really cool party. Happy birthday. Sorry. We missed it

SPEAKER_103: 72 hours is generally A shorter window than most uh out of city parties, but I have a better excuse. I had a corporate off-site for my team

SPEAKER_106: So I apologize sexy people. It's okay. We missed you guys. It was really fun

SPEAKER_108: I can't wait When jacqueline sends out an invite for a party, you definitely want to Want to make it. She knows how to throw a party. She knows how to throw a party. She knows how to make it uh

SPEAKER_112: So, how does it feel being uh this old and just looking so exhausted david tell us

SPEAKER_117: I mean you do look exhausted. Jacob aren't you turning 50 this summer?

SPEAKER_120: I was actually I turned 50 in november. I did yeah

SPEAKER_121: I was in quarantine. So we're gonna have to have like a post. How heavy is that the 50s?

SPEAKER_34: About 194 Give or tag It wasn't actually super heavy for me. I mean, I think just You do think about hey, we're counting down. It's the back nine You want to make good use of the time you have left and so yeah, of course It's something where you're gonna consider

SPEAKER_128: You know your life of course. Yeah, and just make sure you make good use of the time that you have here

SPEAKER_46: Yeah, I think 40 was just a party, but 50 feels a little bit heavy It'll still be a great party, but it does feel a little bit um metaphysical, I guess

SPEAKER_132: Yeah, i'm looking at metaphysical right now So i'll let you know after I figure out what that word means

SPEAKER_34: Uh, well, okay listen, um, we didn't get together on friday, but here we are uh recording on a saturday And uh lots of stuff going on the thing. I think i'm most interested in hearing from uh freeberg about is the lab leak theory um, and I think that this touches on a little bit of the politicization of

SPEAKER_122: um science, I guess We there's a lab in wuhan

SPEAKER_136: I think it's more trump derangement syndrome. It didn't allow us to see the forest from the trees and the same words just said by a different president All of a sudden invokes a an investigation

SPEAKER_37: Yeah, so I mean there is a COVID laboratory

SPEAKER_140: In wuhan it is the only one in china and that's where the virology labs where they study viruses and yes, but specifically they've studied covid viruses

SPEAKER_122: Uh, they have yeah, that's I mean that's a big class of virus. So and it's the only one in china and it's funded by america and china and the who?

SPEAKER_139: The wuhan institute of virology. I mean this is this is I mean this is like

David Sacks: The wuhan institute of virology was posting job uh wrecks two years ago for uh specifically for researchers of bat viruses We know they were studying bat viruses at this place and wuhan just happens to be the place Where a novel coronavirus that seems derived from a bat virus, you know Like emerges. I mean, what are the odds right? I mean this was such an obvious Theory the idea that you know covet might have leaked from from this particular lab and yet we were forbidden From talking about it. I guess till donald trump was out of office I mean, I think there's really two stories here one is chinese culpability, you know In in the spread of the virus the other one is the media story. Why were we not allowed to have this discussion? Why did the media? Brand anybody who discussed this leak theory as being some sort of conspiracy theorist or a racist? Why were big tech companies? Censoring or removing any user generated content from their sites that were putting forward this theory Um, you know, why was the media and big tech doing this? I mean is it somehow I can I can tell you why But somehow they were telling us it was more racist

SPEAKER_149: To talk about a lab accident than to

SPEAKER_152: David because the person who could have explained it in a de-escalated factual way Chose to escalate it and be emotional and superficial and that was donald trump and so I don't I don't think that you could point to us and say we could have changed how the narrative is exploited All of us are just normal average people on the ground But there probably is

David Friedberg: Sort of you know a hierarchy of like information and there probably isn't a single individual An individual beyond the president that who has access to more information And so if he was if he was just more moderate and normal and basically said hey guys There is a legitimate risk that we need to investigate because fast forward basically 18 months later and this president who is moderate you can like him or not like him, but he's kind of moderate and unoffensive Says basically that and now we have this news cycle about investigating something We should have been investigating 18 months ago just at least to get to the bottom of it what was going on But trump had to make it such a big deal and about himself and I think that's the takeaway

David Sacks: But just because trump says something doesn't mean it's not true I mean he is occasionally going to say things that are true and and that's not what my point is

SPEAKER_157: My point is as the president of the united states you just have to have more discipline

David Sacks: Well, but but I think you're right in the sense that the reason this became a forbidden topic is because

SPEAKER_143: The media had to act like anything trump said is is untrue or crazy or racist

SPEAKER_37: It's a failure on both sides then david. I mean the the media is failing to be independent critical thinkers

SPEAKER_141: And trump is failing to be a good leader and be clear and that means you have to be an independent critical thinker

SPEAKER_150: The media's first obligation here is to the truth They're not supposed to distort the truth or push forward a false narrative because

David Sacks: Of the political consequences and and that they didn't want to be seen as helping trump in any way And that's really what their motivation was But I find it equally disturbing that big tech was censoring the truth on this issue The whole point of having a free marketplace of ideas is so that we can arrive at the truth And how's that going to be possible when big tech is censoring?

SPEAKER_162: I really disagree with you I think that the the big tech's decision to censure this information was a

SPEAKER_152: Was a derivative of the first two things like I don't think that decision would have happened had trump been normal And then you know media would have just listened and said okay, maybe there's a chance this guy's right He's saying and acting in a normal way Let's go investigate and then big tech would have basically said we don't know the truth one way or the other But it seems legitimate sane people Are on both sides of the issue. So because donald trump published mean tweets

David Sacks: It was okay for big tech or rather the media to basically portray The correct theory as a lie and a conspiracy and it was okay for big tech to engage in censorship on that basis

SPEAKER_152: What i'm saying is the following the president of the united states independent and whoever it is Has a very specific responsibility to be measured To be unemotional And to be about the bigger picture That's what the president of the united states's responsibility is no matter who holds the office

SPEAKER_165: And then the media's job is to fact check that and hold that person accountable and called that person in a transparent manner

SPEAKER_167: freeberg

SPEAKER_37: Yes, or no Is it a viable theory and then let's get to odds and percentages? I mean as a scientist Do you think that this is because came from a wet market or some accidental exposure somebody eating bad or some cross Contamination a bat and a pig and then somebody eats the pig or do you think? Somebody from the lot from the lab accidentally brought it home with them

SPEAKER_100: Don't know doesn't matter I feel like we need to kind of recognize that bio

SPEAKER_170: Warfare and bioterrorism Is a real risk and I think more importantly that this moment whether or not it's proven and will never be proven or disproven one way or the other So it really doesn't matter what will ultimately happen is we are going to kind of become much more cognizant Of these sorts of threats To the human population. Let me be very specific A kid in high school Could write up some rna code Today on their computer Order that rna to be delivered to them by what's called an oligo printing facility Get this rna booted up turn it into a virus and they could release that thing into the wild There are several very cheap over-the-counter internet-based ways that one could do this So the fact that there's some sophisticated government-run lab doing this I don't think matters as much what's really compelling In this whole storyline is like holy shit. This is possible It's possible that there's either an engineered or discovered virus And it shows just how if these things leak out and they are infectious and they are transmissible Can become a real risk to the global population and it's not just viruses There are other mechanisms of biowarfare that can be printed and created Using similar techniques of genomics There are proteins called prions and prions cause other proteins to fold in a mismatched way

SPEAKER_100: This is actually what mad cow disease is It's a prion. It's a protein that you find in the brain And if you eat this particular protein ends up in your brain it causes the other proteins in your brain that match that protein To misfold and it basically replicates and creates this cascading effect

SPEAKER_171: So basically like aliens like aliens and in fact

SPEAKER_174: But I guess my point my point is like whether it's prions or or viruses

SPEAKER_100: There are techniques and there are capabilities and instruments now that all humans have access to That theoretically could allow for the booting or the creation and the distribution of truly terrifying tools biological tools Now this comes hand in hand with the incredible optimism and opportunity that these tools present Much like chemical engineering presented in the early 20th century to humanity We could create things like DDT and kill ourselves Or we could create things like artificial fertilizer and feed ourselves And so there's this this tremendous as there is with any new technology This tremendous kind of optimism and fear and it's going to create I think a very powerful debate narrative over the coming decade On what do we do with these tools? Is it even possible to regulate them? Where is this going to go and and what are the risks? And it's not necessarily just government agencies that we need to kind of be considering here

SPEAKER_170: It's the fact that there's a democratization of this tooling, which is enabling all this great innovation

SPEAKER_37: Does it sex does it matter if it was leaked or not? Freeberg is saying it doesn't matter big picture Of course it matters

David Sacks: matters and and the only reason we don't know conclusively that it came from a lab is because the chinese government wouldn't let they thwarted the investigation they wouldn't let the investigators come in and so the smoke is pouring out of the wuhan institute of virology and they will not allow the firefighters in because those firefighters come from the west we could establish the truth of what happened if they Would let us talk to the scientists who work at that lab if they could go what would you do about it? let's say that you find out that it did like yeah well at a minute well first of all we're talking about a virus that's killed millions of people's millions of people across the world it's uh caused enormous damage to to the economy to our economy to economies all over the world you know we have to think through carefully what the consequences would be but it matters a lot how the chinese government handled this at a minimum at a minimum we need to decouple ourselves from china with regard to anything that's a vital american interest we cannot be dependent on them for the manufacturing of our ppe for our antibiotics for our pharmaceuticals it is insane so there's nothing we're going to do

SPEAKER_37: we're not there's nothing we're going to do to china in terms of sanctions if we find out they covered up a leak if there's an accidental leak and they covered it up we're not it acts only as a it acts more as a a warning sign for us to to do better and be more independent it's a principle of escalation

SPEAKER_174: they are still the critical supplier to most of american manufacturing and industry every product

SPEAKER_185: that american companies make most products have some sort of chinese produced input and so i would

David Sacks: start i would start with i think the measured response that's also in our national interest is to reassure any critical components that we need for our pharmaceutical industry so drug manufacturing

SPEAKER_37: and so it's not about sanctioning china it's about getting our act together chamath you agree with this and what do you think if we did find out that it was in fact a covered up leak which i think is the

SPEAKER_192: most reasonable uh assumption here what should we do as america as a country

SPEAKER_162: global reaction to china i agree with friedberg and david uh sacks in in parts there's nothing to do

SPEAKER_152: i think we have to move on um i think it's important to get to the bottom of it it'll maybe help eliminate some of the politicizing of science that we've seen as a result of this thing but ultimately what's done is done instead what i think we have to learn from it is you can't elect hotheads and people who are unpredictable and unreliable to basically be our truth tellers and fact tellers and if anybody

SPEAKER_165: but donald trump was the president of the united states in that moment we probably could have had a chance of getting to the bottom of it when it counted and whether you support him or not it doesn't

SPEAKER_152: matter the style made it impossible for anybody to really listen that to me is the most important takeaway of that moment which is he does have a responsibility above everybody else's the second thing is i think this is the most important macro investing theme that i've seen in my lifetime which is that globalization as we know it is over and what saxipoo just said is what i really believe which is that you have to onshore and you have to move to a place where you value resiliency over just

SPEAKER_48: in time and if you look at the businesses that get that need to get built in order to enable resiliency you will see trillions of dollars of opportunity and uh i really really believe in that and that's that's very exciting to me so instead of yeah instead of being anti-china which i don't think is

SPEAKER_152: productive i think it's better to be pro america and say hey let's just figure out how to build this stuff ourselves now here's the problem though when the rubber meets the road the biggest impediment to on shoring jobs into the united states are the same people on the left who actually uh claim that there is no upward mobility and here's why when you go and you want to basically balkanize supply chains

David Friedberg: you are introducing inefficiency you're also introducing some puts and takes in areas that

SPEAKER_152: today have been like third rail issues for example the people on the left believe in climate change more than anybody else but when you explain to them that in order to eliminate hydrocarbons you actually have to mine critical minerals and metals out of the ground they're the same people that say no way well you

David Friedberg: can't have one without the other and you actually have to have a rational conversation and realize like listen we're going to have to do this and so for example like biden this past week somewhat capitulated for environmental interests and said you know what yes climate change is critical but we're going to try to get them from everywhere else but america it's not going to work so um that's kind of where like i'm a little frustrated um but those are my two takeaways number one is pass let's just get past china and let's just focus on the united states and number two is globalization as we know

SPEAKER_37: it is done and we need to focus on resiliency did you guys read the wall street journal piece on um the miners who uh in uh 2012 were the ones who um you know were clearing essentially bat dung yeah and so this this is a really fascinating turn of events that we're starting to know what this

SPEAKER_201: lab was doing if you didn't see the wall street journal story we'll put it in the show notes yeah

SPEAKER_37: we'll put the show notes but in april 2012 six miners fell sick with a mysterious illness after entering the mind to clear bat guano i guess uh is what uh that poop um which is supposed to be a primary source of fertilizer worldwide yeah so uh three of them died uh chinese scientists from the wuhan institute of virology were called in to investigate after taking samples from bats in the

SPEAKER_201: mine identified several new coronaviruses now unanswered questions about the miner's illness the viruses found at the site and the research done with them have elevated into the mainstream an idea once dismissed as a conspiracy theory that sars cove to the virus that causes cover 19 might

SPEAKER_37: have leaked from the lab in wuhan i mean this is just becoming more and more obvious my my gut tells me that our government already knows this has known it for some time the 90 day sort of uh window that they've given the chinese to kind of give us an answer as to what happened here is window dressing

SPEAKER_201: and then we're going to start the process of becoming more independent from china because

SPEAKER_37: there's i mean there's nothing you could do i mean how could we retaliate for an accident we're not

SPEAKER_46: going to get in a war over this no one's suggesting that but i think we have to open our eyes to

David Sacks: the regime that we're dealing with over in china and just to lay to add a layer to this analysis novel coronis coronaviruses are not the only thing coming out of chinese labs china is also the number one producer of fentanyl obviously yes and that's another truth that we can finally talk about now that trump is out of office people haven't wanted to talk about it or they thought that you were hysterical or promoting a conspiracy theory if you talked about it but i just posted two articles in the chat one from brookings and one from npr about how china is the main source of fentanyl that's pouring into our streets first it makes a stopover in mexico and then somehow it gets smuggled into the u.s this is a huge problem in our cities and um you know i i think this is not this is not accidental you know this is um this is deliberate so the chinese your position is the chinese

SPEAKER_201: government is deliberately sending a super opioid drug into the united states for profit or to destabilize

SPEAKER_37: the country and different cities and create more division between the left and the right because

SPEAKER_192: homelessness and wealth inequality is getting mixed up with a super drug as opposed to a homeless

SPEAKER_216: problem this is getting a little this is getting a little um i know it's getting crazy conspiracy

David Sacks: well that's what i'm reflecting back to sax but how's it a conspiracy theory we know that china is mass producing the fentanyl that's coming into the u.s we know that that fentanyl is creating a gigantic crisis of drug addiction to homelessness on the streets we know they could stop it if they wanted to they have total control over that country what is the conspiracy theory yeah i don't know if that's

SPEAKER_170: the equivalent of saying america produces all the world's cars it's not america there are organizations within the united states that are under the purview of the ccp is the ccp is handpicking who gets to run

SPEAKER_187: bite dance and ant and their retiring ceos they get to decide what is producing that country and who

SPEAKER_100: produces it you're telling me that what do you think is going on in the federal government when they say

SPEAKER_170: to their their counterparts um at the chinese communist party hey we need you guys to stop producing fentanyl do you think that conversation is happening yeah it was this was an agenda item

SPEAKER_227: during the trump administration and talks between do you have any sense of what what the feedback was from

SPEAKER_100: china i mean what's the counterpoint i don't know enough but what is the counterpoint that china would then say like why they can't stop it or why this is still happening i mean my understanding is there

SPEAKER_170: are thousands of kind of you know call them under regulated factories and facilities in china

David Sacks: any number of which this could let me let me ask you a question it just does china have a fentanyl

SPEAKER_43: addiction problem in their streets we don't know i mean maybe they don't know and the answer is they round up every single person who's a hong kong dissident who would sell a book or if anybody

SPEAKER_232: goes to the that's fair tiananmen square protest you're going to jail for five years they just

SPEAKER_37: announced hong kong citizens who go to the tiananmen square memorial this year are getting five years

SPEAKER_201: and if you tweet about it you get one year in jail so they can they can control anything in their

SPEAKER_48: country just to build on your control point i tweeted this to you guys in the group chat we can

SPEAKER_152: post this as well in the show notes but there was an article in forbes this week that said friends

SPEAKER_48: don't let friends become chinese billionaires that was the title and the data point that this is an old story by the way it's like eight years old just so you know no no this was written now

SPEAKER_131: that might have been no i think read the story i think at the top it says the story is like eight

SPEAKER_236: years old but anyway it is true uh that chinese billionaire chinese billionaire dies every 40 days

SPEAKER_165: unnatural deaths have taken the lives of 72 mainland billionaires over the past eight years 15 were murdered it's the wild west over there man 17 committed suicide seven died from accidents and 19 from illness and 14 were executed suicide accidents but they execute the 14 for can you

SPEAKER_241: imagine 14 billionaires just get executed is that story real what is that story from samoth i mean

SPEAKER_48: well this this maybe is a good segue into coinbase fact check but this is an article in forbes all right uh india versus whatsapp um well i'll give you the rundown um on the india thing so basically you know there there is um a right to you know free speech effectively in the indian constitution um but then india passed the law effectively i'll just i'll just um summarize it as traceability

David Friedberg: which basically means that if you have an online network and you post something in the network if an indian censor or an indian regulator or authority basically says hey hold on this is an issue they have the right to basically have the the the network or whoever owns that network trace it down to its originating source now that's a really important distinction because there are certain products so for example take whatsapp where a feature of the product is uh end to end encryption right so it's hopping around in ways that are very difficult and near to impossible for anybody to really figure out and now all of a sudden that that that element which used to be a feature is now a bug because if the indian government says hey hold on that statement i have an issue with i need you to figure out who said that they'll essentially have to undo all their end-to-end encryption to figure out so then whatsapp filed um uh a court case in new delhi uh this week essentially i think asking for an injunction and so i think this is going to go to a head but you you have this now state of affairs which i think is really interesting which is so you know we we talk about how we have an issue with chinese sensors well now here's a different more complicated example because this is the largest democracy in the world and what they're effectively saying is we need to have an equivalent red button and a set of levers so that we can figure out what's going on when we choose and there's going to be a lot of implications because inside of india what's different than america as a democracy is it has lower average incomes it has lower health it has lower literacy rates it has more uh religious sort of tension um and it's got you know uh many many more young people who are more prone theoretically to get you know bamboozled by misinformation and disinformation and so you know india sees those facts on the ground and probably wrote this law with those intentions in mind right and it's had a bunch of these issues by the way particularly between muslims and hindus and so what do you do um you know what is facebook and whatsapp supposed to do what is google supposed to do um what does it mean for internet rights i think it's a super super complicated problem and do you prioritize misinformation and disinformation above the right for people's privacy and you're going to see it unfold in the largest democracy in the world over the next couple months i don't really know how i feel about it to be honest except i do think that indian government has a right to set the rules of their own country well and set the rules they are i mean remember

SPEAKER_37: they also banned tick tock in an instance and hundreds of other apps i think 60 apps from china

SPEAKER_201: have been banned permanently in india so india obviously has a different approach to china which

SPEAKER_128: is we're going to put our foot down now of course they're involved in some skirmishes on their border

SPEAKER_201: but yeah it does seem sacks what do you what's your thought you have personal right to privacy end-to-end decryption and then you have you know the ability to run backdoor a backdoor to it yeah

David Sacks: this is another uh major uh sledgehammer to globalization you know in the in the mid to late 90s we had this beautiful dream that we're going to create a single internet for the whole world it would create a single common market a single place for people to interact and go and that all these barriers these geographic barriers tribal barriers would come down over time and now what we see is the trade barriers have come up and now instead of having one internet for the whole world it's fragmenting into a bunch of different internets governed by local laws um you know it started with the the great firewall of china creating sort of a separate chinese internet now you're starting to see country by country regulations and i just think it's it's sort of an inevitable reaction that the power of governments and sovereignties comes before the power of corporations and they're reimposing their will and i think the question for all these companies is going to be where they decide they're willing to play and you know i think now i do think it's a very different choice whether you want to play in india or whether you want to play in china because in china when the government tells you to hand over information on dissidents you really are aiding and abetting what could be political oppression whereas india being a democracy i don't think the choice is quite the same at all and so you know i do think these tech companies are gonna have to decide which countries they want to sort of play ball with and ultimately i think they probably have to make a determination

SPEAKER_259: based on working with the democratic ones and they're probably gonna have to exit the ones that

David Friedberg: engage in political repression in my um first of all i think that's really well said what you said i in my in my annual letter last year i kind of wrote like here's the white paper on how to dismantle big tech and there were two frames one was around taxation which we're also seeing but the second was on this regulator regulatory point david that you're bringing up that's the simplest way to sort of break these companies down which is if you have to engineer now instead of one monolithic code base multiple instantiations where you can't even get the leverage of like you know cross-border data centers i mean by the way there there's a really interesting thing that the biden tax bill also

SPEAKER_152: proposes on this dimension right it's going to prevent you from sending ip you know into places like um like ireland and keeping it there right so you can't have all of a sudden you know code that's

David Friedberg: running in ireland that executes something that makes money so that you can pay irish tax versus something code that runs in america that's largely you know user oriented that's not going to happen that's not going to be allowed anymore right so all of these things are happening at the same time essentially to rein big tech in making it almost a whack-a-mole problem inside these companies where you're fighting a tax thing for example google's fighting antitrust in france then you're fighting antitrust at the eu level then you're fighting you know traceability and encryption in india then you're fighting you know inversion of uh and ip in america wow like it's like all of a sudden the

SPEAKER_165: lawyers inside of these companies will outnumber the engineers and i think a lot of this is the downstream

David Sacks: consequences of what happened back in january when twitter and all the other big tech companies de-platformed trump remember at the time it wasn't just you know conservatives or in the us who raised alarm bells it was angela merkel in in um germany it was the finance minister in france i think india you know uh talked about it i think modi had a statement about it they all woke up and said whoa a head of state can be de-platformed by jack dorsey he's more powerful than the president of the united states and countries all around the world started looking at the power of big tech and realize that they're subordinate to all these tech billionaires and oligarchs tell me about coinbase and fact check

SPEAKER_261: i think this thing is incredible i mean i have to say by the way the first thing i'll say about and

David Friedberg: this is this is the exact opposite of what i said the last time brian armstrong wrote a memo this memo is excellent and if you haven't had a chance to read it we'll put it in the show notes but brian's essay is super i think there have been a couple of ceo memos in the last two months that i

SPEAKER_152: think honestly should be in the hall of fame in the smithsonian one is the toby lutke memo that the internal email he wrote and the second one is this one that brian wrote because i think this this thing is probably one of the most important things in my opinion that has been written by a ceo which has the

David Sacks: potential to lead to huge systemic changes well he echoed he echoed a lot of the things we we've been saying on this pod about going direct don't let the press tell your story go direct get get the truth out um they're basically what the what the blog said is they're going to start using the coinbase blog as a forum basically as a media publication for for crypto related things and the fact check part is that when the popular press gets crypto wrong which they do frequently in coinbase's view coinbase is going to call them out and correct them yeah so basically here's what he says

SPEAKER_196: the increased awareness has been great unfortunately we also see misinformation published frequently as well whether in traditional media social media or by public figures this doesn't always come from negative intentions our business and crypto can be difficult to understand and often people are rushed to post first impressions online making mistakes in the process at other times misinformation comes from people publishing their own agenda or from people who have a conflict of interest this is not unique to our business or industry of course so how should companies respond one turn the other cheek two fight and three publish the truth i believe there is a reasonable middle ground between these first two options uh turning the other cheek and fighting which is to simply publish the truth

David Sacks: you know well two and three are the same the the way you fight back is you publish the truth so that to me that's not a choice those are the same thing is you can either remain silent take the high road which always results in people believing whatever you know lies are being said or you fight

SPEAKER_196: back by telling the truth fact check approach is not about antagonizing or embarrassing others uh this is brian armstrong but simply sharing what happened through our own channels it also means

SPEAKER_128: sharing the good along with the bad with radical transparency i i just want to say that i wish him

SPEAKER_261: all the success in the world because i think if if if and as this works with that which i think it will

David Friedberg: because people in the crypto universe are more prone to actually get their own information and do their own diligence i think the spillover effects to other companies can be really positive all of this is going to the same place which is the intermediate layer of traditional media is basically getting whittled down right there was a there was a different thing that happened in those last few weeks which was um the tribune company i think it was um basically got taken private by some hedge fund and in it um they talked about what has happened in the industry and the most incredible thing was the amount of revenue that has disappeared from newspapers and literally from the tens of billions of dollars to basically single digit billions today over the last 20 years which effectively means traditional media's revenue source is going away and if then all of a sudden if you take that media um model away and there are no more economic incentives then it stands to reason that the overarching incentives that remain are around reputation which is then about facts and so the fact that coinbase will have a place that says here are the facts and we're gonna put it on chain permanently on the record that's i think a really powerful idea and recent horowitz by the way same situation they're doing it in venture capital you know one of the largest and most prolific and important sources of funding the future they're on the record on chain in their own way right with their own media and and they're now helping to tell the stories of other folks through it david sax you know sax has put so much content um in terms of teaching people about the business that he knows really well but at the same time he's also been able to write about what he thinks about certain things and then eventually on behalf of his companies he'll be able to say things and do things as well so all of a sudden not all of a sudden i guess we've seen it but if we had to put a label on this this is the dismantling of traditional media it is happening in real time

SPEAKER_201: and and it's accelerating it turns out you know as a subject being interpreted as you're being through the new yorker right now in your story jamaath and i am through my business insider profile you know all these profiles that they do they're interpreting your life when people could just tune into the podcast and hear us talk about it right and it's like you can go direct to the source

SPEAKER_196: and listen to 34 episodes of all in or you could read some interpretation from somebody trying to get

David Friedberg: page views well here's my here's my observation the thing is that people who create artifacts on a real-time basis so in many ways we have all collectively now started to create a weekly artifact of who we are as people it leaves very little left over for interpretation and so then unfortunately what happens is journalists trying to write content have to introduce some form of flourish to stand out yeah because if you're just repeating something that was said on the podcast or something that we said in a it's a good tweet there's nothing left to talk about it's kind of already been said and so that's what creates boundary conditions for lying and it's what creates boundary conditions for mistruths and we've seen a handful of reporters back in the day fall you know fall into that trap we you know there was a couple writers in the new york times that got pinched for lying it's going to be harder and harder to lie so in many in some ways i'm actually pretty optimistic that um that reputation management and truth will be easier to do in the future when this intermediary layer doesn't exist but it'll take many other companies to do what coinbase is doing and recent us in this podcast us with our tweets and our memos and our posts i think it's it's all in the good positive direction yeah and and and and

David Sacks: armstrong and his in this blog uh talks about the gel man amnesia effect which we talked about on this pod before which is yeah i saw that yeah yeah which is great i love that um because you know that the gentleman amnesia is you read the newspaper about a topic you know something about you see that 50 of it is just wrong then you turn the page to some other part of the newspaper say you know world affairs you don't know as much about and you just assume it's true and we all know that the media is maybe 50 right about everything and so yeah i mean so this is why we have to hear from experts directly i think it's why it's the decentralization of media it's why i think this like heavy-handed uh centralized censorship by big tech is so offensive and anachronistic is to try and control what everyone can say especially when it later turns out that you know big media gets so many

SPEAKER_80: things wrong like the lab leak theory um so it's it's this is definitely the way things are headed

SPEAKER_152: i would like to invest some money to basically freeberg a platform to explain science well that's

SPEAKER_41: right here freeberg tell us about the science of uh nba games and large gatherings in the age of

SPEAKER_284: vaccination i'm pretty sure you got kobe this week jaco i'm pretty sure i definitely lost my voice at

SPEAKER_37: the knicks games but i have to say this was pretty stunning to go to a knicks game have everybody in the arena show their vax card to get in i suppose somebody could photocopy one or steal one you know it sounds like a lot of work and i don't know what if there's any penalty for doing something like that but what when you see a full arena madison square guard and everybody vaccinated freeberg do

SPEAKER_34: does it give you any pause as a scientist that this is not a good idea or this is too soon or do you think heck yes this is what we should be doing proper risk assessment finally no we should do what we

SPEAKER_290: want to do they have it folks science do what you want to do there's a great science moment way to

SPEAKER_292: keep the freeberg ratio high that was supposed to be the science segue we're ready for a monologue

SPEAKER_48: let's go freeberg come on let's go freeberg we're poking the tiger here freeberg why don't you tell this is something i thought was incredible amgen um this week at the end of this week got approval for

SPEAKER_261: this really incredible drug that basically targets kras mutations in lung cancer which has been this body of cancer that has basically been somewhat intractable for a really long time and these guys have cracked the code it looks like and now the drug is 18 000 a month i think but uh you know

SPEAKER_297: that's that's for insurance to take care of but uh pretty incredible breakthrough that people are

SPEAKER_168: talking a lot about i don't know if you if you were tracking it no but um i think that there

SPEAKER_170: were several other gene therapies there were several um uh drugs that got approval in the last like month um one of which is this or actually it was about two months ago this drug that um uh uses targeted car t therapy um basically you know we all have t cells and um we can edit our own t cells now uh using this car t therapy this series of techniques where you basically reprogram your t cells genetically to go after a specific target in your body and so there are now a whole series of car t therapies that are coming to market that are actually in market you can go down and go get treatment uh today for several of these car t therapies that you know not too long ago were really difficult to kind of understand uh you know being real um they take your t cells out of your blood you know so you go in you get your blood drawn a couple weeks later you come back to the doctor they've taken the t cells out of your blood they re-engineer them the way they re-engineer is really interesting they basically use this technique where they zap them with electricity and it gets this gene editing in there and then they get edited and then they put those t cells back into your into your body uh it takes about an hour to get them re-injected back into your body and then they do their job and they in many cases are being used to target cancer cells it's very specific receptors so now the t cell has been programmed to go find that cancer cell receptor they hit the cancer cell receptor bind to it and then eliminate that cancer cell so essentially

SPEAKER_201: in in plain english you're putting this super t cell back on the body it goes through the blood and then it finds something foreign that shouldn't be there like a virus or cancer

SPEAKER_54: find anything you want bacteria whatever you want it to find and it snipes it but yeah what it does

SPEAKER_174: remember it's looking for a specific protein and that protein for example can be expressed only on the surface of specific cancer cells so if you found certain cancer cells that you have a cancer and we know that there's a specific protein that shows up on the surface of that cancer which is common in many

SPEAKER_170: cancers because they all follow very similar kind of you know mutations you can end up targeting that cancer cell and only that cancer cell and your your t cells go to work and they go and wipe it out i

SPEAKER_237: think the breakthrough this week was in multiple myeloma and thyroid cancer yeah there was a multiple

SPEAKER_170: myeloma one which was a bluebird bio product yeah and then i think it got picked up by um bristol or someone else picked it up so they basically paid the fee and they run their own good manufacturing

SPEAKER_174: practice uh facility where your blood is shipped to them they do all the gene editing with your own t cells in this facility and they ship it back to your doctor and it gets reinjected back into you

SPEAKER_304: there are 600 car t cell is that what it's called car space t cell yeah so car stands for chimeric

SPEAKER_100: antigen receptor and that is the little call think about it as like a seeker that's on the outside of

SPEAKER_170: your t cell it goes and it finds a specific thing it's trying to bind to and so you're reprogramming your t cell to have a specific um receptor and then as soon as it finds that that as soon as that receptor binds to the correct protein that it's looking for boom that that cell that it binds to gets wiped out

SPEAKER_100: are we going to talk about the crazy media mergers and spin outs that are happening because it seems like just in the last 90 days the entire industry is rewiring itself

SPEAKER_170: and it's kind of a pretty significant set of transactions that are underway amazon is buying

SPEAKER_201: mgm which owns most importantly james bond james bond has done 20 billion dollars in adjusted uh revenue for their movies and you can obviously see many different backstories and television shows around the james bond so this is kind of in my mind of that eight or nine billion they spent six billions on the franchise for james bond so that bezos can play james bond obviously while he retired

SPEAKER_100: if you take a zoom out you know um several years ago you guys may remember you know early 2000s into the mid you know uh aughts um all the telco started freaking out um because they were sorry all the media companies were freaking out because their controlled points of distribution which were network television and then their cable television stations and the movie theaters were getting

SPEAKER_170: disintermediated by the internet so all these internet companies showed up like youtube and netflix and were going direct to consumer where consumers were not getting access to content directly without the control channels that the media companies controlled at the same time the telcos were freaking out because it turns out people didn't need cell phones anymore or need phone lines anymore what they needed was internet access and internet access was quickly commoditizing so the telcos were like holy crap being in the business of providing internet service not a great business we need to be making more value per user per year than we're going to be able to make charging them for internet access so the telcos started buying up media companies this is what verizon and others did and the media companies and

SPEAKER_100: at&t and the media so remember verizon bought aol and yahoo uh at&t bought time warner and then the media companies the old school media companies that were kind of like still decided not to sell and to stay on their own they decided well we got to go internet right so we got to figure out how to be on the internet and compete in this world where companies like netflix and amazon are going direct to consumers and um you know they all uh started building their own internet services and so now you have paramount plus hbo max yeah hulu and that you know hulu was a big one and meanwhile the tech companies that went direct to consumers they're realizing you know what if these media companies aren't going to play ball we better get our own media we got to get an apple tv yeah and so then they started licensing buying funding and building their own media companies and so there's a total reorientation that's underway now what's interesting in the last couple weeks is verizon decided you know what we can't be in the media business we're not very good at it and they spun it out and they're selling aol yahoo and then meanwhile this really interesting deal is at&t gave up on owning time warner and so it turns out that the telcos who thought that they could own the media and monetize it you know what it's just a pain in the butt it's another business we can't really figure out how to add value to our subscriber base with these products they're going to have to exist on their own we don't know how to run them because around media guys and they're spitting out so now the telcos the interesting question to ask is what are they going to do next what's the next move for them because they got to keep growing meanwhile the tech companies and the media companies are just like this and there's 50 subscription services each with their own silo and balkanization of content and we're all going to have to choose as consumers do i want hbo max or paramount plus or you know the the bundle i get from comcast and it's going to be a nasty battle for the next 10 years where you and where you want

SPEAKER_223: content you're going to have to go pick and choose who do you want to buy content from and so yeah i have a few

SPEAKER_261: theory i think consolidation happens when markets don't matter anymore and are getting commoditized and what i would say about all of this what it shows me is that we're now transferring to the phase of the market where it's all about cost of capital and right now the only person that actually understood that was netflix and netflix issued billions of dollars of debt and they've started to finance every piece of content under the sun and being small and trying to compete against netflix was not possible and now we're in that part of the market where content is actually not that

David Friedberg: important because there is an enormous diversity of it so no one single person can really corner that market and so then it becomes how much can you make and how cheaply can you make it and their scale matters so i can think like what this shows me back to sort of what we talked about before on the other

SPEAKER_261: part about like facts and truth is this is part of a much broader you know media puzzle that's becoming more obvious which is um traditional outlets that push top-down content is kind of yesterday's news and what it's being replaced by is more and better forms of user generated content and uh highly commoditized

David Friedberg: professional content and in all of that the economics are going away so i don't if you if you if you are not sure go and look inside of tick tock the content that individual people create inside of tick tock is unbelievably good and they are training an entire generation of kids to consume content 15 seconds 30 seconds at a time which has huge implications by the way for how they consume music so for example if you guys like look inside a tick tock and then go to youtube and look at the most popular videos exactly the same and same thing with spotify it's 15 second clips now no you know these kids want to listen to the hook of a song and then they won't listen to it i i see how my kids use it and it's crazy because like they get addicted to a hook on tick tock they try to go to youtube to learn the lyrics they only want to learn the lyrics for the part that's in the tick tock and then they move on bus it challenge yes whatever it is and so the the point of all of that is that content costs are going to continue to go down which means economics are going to go down the margins are not that good um and so it's all just a commodity that almost doesn't matter i don't know about that i think for

SPEAKER_201: the top tier ip like you can't displace a disney um and they're growing portfolio of ip and those things are high margin and you know having 250 i don't know having 250 to 500 000 500 million people

SPEAKER_34: paying you monthly has never existed in the history of humanity there's never been a at scale service like this before the closest was verizon and at&t when they hit 100 million members i'm not disputing that

David Friedberg: people won't pay 9.99 what i'm disputing is the denominator of what they're paying for is increasing

SPEAKER_201: so fast that no one piece of content matters jason no the idea we agree with that collections matter right so the ip of marvel disney pixar put together right like pick disney launched this thing with

SPEAKER_100: no direct-to-consumer relationships with when they launched disney plus what do they have now 60 million

SPEAKER_174: subscribers or something 100 now 100 million subscribers which is incredible you guys have kids my kids watch this stuff on you will have it for the rest of our lives over and over they'll put

SPEAKER_100: on freaking moana i cannot tell you how many times i've watched the seashore scene of moana they want

SPEAKER_174: to watch the beginning they want to watch the middle part it's just like infinitely reusable content and so disney's content library is so powerful for that particular demographic basically the demographic of anyone with children that it's an instant on kind of moment these other guys like paramount plus and you know hbo's obviously got some special content but it shows how much content matters right the quality of the content for the demographic is so key for this to work all these media companies

SPEAKER_100: that have kind of a broad dithered you know library of half quality half good kind of content they're gonna struggle man because they're not gonna i also feel like they're ringing a little

SPEAKER_201: too much out of it with this too much content production there is like 50 shows about superheroes then there's like 50 shows that are like you know meta commentary on the superhero show it's almost

SPEAKER_196: becoming exhausting like how many homeland style shows are there going to be how many soprano style shows are there going to be game of throne i'm getting burnt out i think you're i think you're

SPEAKER_157: making my point which is that no one piece of content matters anymore it's all the same so my big

SPEAKER_46: takeaway from bezos buying mgm and these other you know m a events is it's less about the decline of

David Sacks: content even though there are more and more options there ever have been and therefore more competition and it's more about the rising power and wealth and influence of big tech i mean if you look at throughout history whoever is buying studios in any given era they're the people with the money and power and they're seeking influence it was ge buying nbc it was golf and western buying paramount

SPEAKER_187: in the 1970s an oil and gas company or robert evans stays in the picture so that's right sony buying columbia in the 1980s when you had the era of the rising sun so whoever has the money and the

David Sacks: power and seeking influence are the ones buying studios that's what bezos is doing right now but i think this time it is a little bit different in this sense that we're reaching an end state of digital convergence where the um where content and the digital distribution are now reaching their kind of final state and so i don't expect these studios once they're owned by big tech to ever go anywhere any i don't think they're going to be trading again every 10 years i think this is the end state um amazon wants this library for their streaming service and i think that big tech is going to gobble up the rest of these libraries and that's where they're going to stay you think all media will end up in tech yeah i mean i think i think i think big tech is going to eat hollywood look we've been on this this path of convergence now since the mid-90s with the internet and the question was always you know we knew that tech and hollywood were converging and and joining just more and more and the question would be on whose terms this final merger would take place and i think that big tech now you just look at the market caps they're so much bigger than the market caps of these studios that

SPEAKER_187: eight billion surrounding era it's a rounding error for bezos i mean it's one day's it's one day's revenue or whatever or less so obviously big tech is going to win this battle they are going to own

SPEAKER_174: hollywood but except for the few guys that have scale to actually be successful like disney right disney maybe hbo to some extent we'll see how i mean look uh zaslov who runs uh discovery he's an

SPEAKER_100: incredible media guy and he gets it but they could be like this discovery plus slash hbo plus whatever that combined business ends up looking like that could be a competitor and their babies like there's two to three libraries that are deep enough and strong enough to compete and stand on their own as a

SPEAKER_170: tech kind of platform but what's also really interesting is that all the telcos are exiting

SPEAKER_225: and what are they going to become right it's clear what's interesting is they're not they're not tech

David Sacks: companies are important right so so so here's the thing with the telcos the telecom stack is is we know that tech is taking over hollywood but the question is what part of the tech stack and what's happened is the part of the tech stack that has the direct relationship with the audience apple google amazon who aggregate millions and millions of consumers they're the ones who should actually own the content because they are the ones delivering up the content to the consumer and everybody else who's lower down in the stack who are just the pipes they don't really have a claim on these libraries and this content pipes are super valuable the pipes are the pipes are valuable but they're a commodity what elon is doing with starlink is going to disrupt them i'm not saying they're not valuable but they're not in a highly leveraged position to do anything with the content they're

SPEAKER_350: going to keep increasing speed in order to keep you paying 30 bucks a month because like now that

SPEAKER_178: they're out they realize you know what we cannot we can't run media businesses and we can't monetize it well what are they going to do because they can't just focus on faster bandwidth get us to gigabit i mean

David Friedberg: it doesn't matter i mean like you guys are like you guys are so old like you're just like talking about yesterday's news nobody cares this is what i mean consolidation in markets like this should tell you it's time to move on and focus on something else this is a dead industry with no profit so

SPEAKER_352: chamath what happens to at t and what happens to verizon over the next 10 years it doesn't matter

SPEAKER_108: well i i agree i agree with that part that it doesn't matter what happens to these telcos they should be

David Sacks: dumb pipes again they're not in a leveraged position to create value around content they never should have owned it but i do think there is major major significance in amazon and apple and google and these other big tech companies owning hollywood because they have they're going to combine the influence they already have with the influence of hollywood and you already have again censorship on these tech platforms are they going to start censoring the type of content that hollywood produces i think these issues are going to get more and more important over time because so much control over our politics and society and culture are being concentrated in the hands of frankly our

SPEAKER_261: industry but this is what i think about the other the other side of that coin is what we talked about before with respect to things like coinbase while that's happening more and more people who have

David Friedberg: their own distribution are going direct so let's just separate entertainment and facts from a fact perspective i think we're seeing everything sort of become highly decentralized and i think that that's constructive now there'll be services that will be there to help us navigate but i think that's what's happening with respect to entertainment i just think like it was our generation was the last one that actually even cared about movies that cared about these tent productions that that cared about water cooler type conversations on a monday morning books novels kids will not understand what the hell we're talking about they're like what do you mean you used to run into work your kids don't

SPEAKER_321: want to go to the movies anymore you think it's over they couldn't care less really they still

SPEAKER_355: love going to the movies they love video games yeah i mean by the way they're obviously like that

SPEAKER_170: you know the combination of media attack and um they're just the kind of ultimate manifestation

David Friedberg: of where it's all and it's not just our kids just look at the monthly active usage numbers that roblox and epic yeah yeah it's it's nuts and so they are voting every day with their attention and at the end of the day the thing that has never been improved is the nut or increase is the number of

SPEAKER_100: hours in a day so jamak your point your point on the telcos you know as an investor i own a bunch of verizon and at&t stock if you were running that company what would you do i would quit okay you might

SPEAKER_201: run it for capital and then buy assets oh wait they did that you can't right these businesses

Chamath Palihapitiya: have had horrendous capital allocation for decades and the reason that they were allowed was that they

David Friedberg: were they were part of a culture of insiders there were other ins where other insiders said that they were important but as it turned out to individual users who are making usage decisions every day they were not important at all and this is what we're learning that the emperor has no clothes so while everybody was you know looking around themselves saying at&t is important and hey you know let's

SPEAKER_152: go and like you know buy all of these crazy old school media assets young people were like i use snapchat and tick tock and youtube and i'm done thanks goodbye talk right and who owns those platforms

David Sacks: i mean you're right that professional content is being crowded out to some degree by amateur content but now the the big tech companies own the professional content or the studios for creating them and they own the user generated platforms that lets the amateurs create the content so big tech now owns

David Friedberg: everything no but you're seeing the next shooter drop because the thing that i think content creators haven't yet realized and social media personalities and influencers haven't yet realized is how can i own my own distribution and monetize my relationship that feature of the web will get figured out in our

SPEAKER_201: lifetime and that's starting to a patreon and then apple is now no no no spotify is doing paid content

SPEAKER_48: no no no no these people are doing stripe accounts direct with their fans those people are too old

David Friedberg: they're not going to figure it out what i'm saying is there are going to be people who are teenagers today right or kids who will be teenagers in a decade 20 somethings who will figure this out for whom the idea that if you're a charlie d'amelio right you're tick tock's top biggest star with 120 odd million followers that to go through an intermediary to talk to your people will not in the future make any sense and i think david that's that's where the the next thing will change i just think it's unreliable to expect laser beam mr beast charlie d'amelio all these people to continue to go

SPEAKER_376: through the no because they have they have such guys yeah they could go direct some of those guys

SPEAKER_270: could go direct now that they're huge but it's it's no different than building a name on the new

SPEAKER_379: york times and then starting your own sub stack it's going to happen yeah but you can't go viral

SPEAKER_380: and you can't get discovered unless you participate not an or you can use the platform and you can have a

David Friedberg: relationship you will build scale you will build scale on a platform and then you'll go on your own because you'll want to control and monetize your own relationship it's it is what these folks have done meaning like how kylie jenner and kim kardashian had built incredible scale and wealth yeah is effectively through that they build scale through instagram and twitter and wherever tv show now the only thing that they haven't done is they've monetized it through offline goods but if somebody figures out how to monetize it through an online relationship then what you're really doing is you're learning how to build scale in an established platform and then you on ramp to something else

Chamath Palihapitiya: that's also online and you go from there to think that it won't get figured out i think is being

SPEAKER_37: naive it's being figured out it's being figured out right now the street is figuring out there's something called ghost which is like an open source version of sub stack it is an open source

SPEAKER_201: version of sub stack and people are building direct relationships and doing their own patreon and if you

SPEAKER_196: leave sub stack you get to take your stripe account with you you use your stripe account so now it's you can go on sub stack for a year leave and keep all your subscribers i i think this solution will get

David Friedberg: figured out through the crypto community and the reason is because that is by definition to your point jason fundamentally distributed and tied to a payment and a store of value because that's what effectively this is it's like where is the value of somebody's reputation and right now we don't have a way of measuring it and you can you can put that on chain in some way i don't claim to know how

SPEAKER_391: but i mean people have talked about this as all these different i hope i hope that happens i hope

SPEAKER_143: that crypto figures out a way to to create decentralized social networks and all the rest of

David Sacks: it but it doesn't exist yet and the only way that mr beast or charlie d'amelia or any of these people became stars is they went viral on youtube or tick tock or insta they on up on a big tech platform

SPEAKER_34: and so right now the strategy is going to be doing both you you use the power they have all the power

SPEAKER_187: right now because if they deny you access to one of these platforms oh you're talking about trump

SPEAKER_33: who cares about trump i'm not talking about trump you're talking about trump nobody wants trump in their life but you okay you're the one who mentioned his name you're the one with trump on

SPEAKER_398: the on the brain what are you talking about we love that he's bad you love he's bad or do you want

David Sacks: him missing no i'm not missing it at all but you want him back or not we're trying to do takeaways on these moves by big tech to buy hollywood studios and i'm telling you it's about who has the power money

SPEAKER_265: and influence and it's all i'll go out on a limb and say um we're we're we're in the sort of the

SPEAKER_261: the august of their um supremacy so and again i would just say david if on the one hand it's a

David Friedberg: whack-a-mole problem with governments on taxation and regulation and on the other hand you have a way where you can have distributed social currency and value wow i mean these big tech companies are getting bombarded on every single side um and i think that's just a hard place to be one last thing for you guys on a market check uh my 10-year break evens remember uh we're now down to 242 it's been uh 18 days what is he talking about my little inflation check my little inflation check

SPEAKER_165: and it seems like things are trending in the right direction the market's back the market's back a

SPEAKER_108: little there may not be inflation well i think what happened chamath is you you put it well i think a

David Sacks: couple of pods ago the market sent a signal to biden that look this is too much taxing too much spending it's too inflationary and i don't know if biden heard the message but several democratic senators did the brakes and they pumped put on the brakes they reduced the size of the package they're now talking about maybe the capital gains rate going to 25 the infrastructure bill is you know been chopped in half so i think there's less inflationary pressure coming out of washington

David Friedberg: hopefully yeah what i what i heard last week i spoke to some folks in washington what they said was

SPEAKER_261: exactly what you said david they're not gonna at best they're gonna get the cap gains uh sorry no movement on cap gains they don't think it can happen at all so that's not going to move okay number one number two is that corporate will go to 25 but not to 28 and then number three they're going to really tighten the ip loophole which will prevent american companies from shipping ip to places like ireland to not pay tax they're going to make it impossible to do things like inversions all this kind of stuff and then scope that down that's actually to your point a very

SPEAKER_157: very good uh outcome for the markets so this was actually productive if this happens if the

David Sacks: infrastructure bill gets i think the republicans now they first mcconnell said 600 to 800 billion now i think they're they're at 900 billion i think the democrats started at 2.3 billion now i think they're at 1.7 so hopefully it's being brought down to a more reasonable number that's not going

SPEAKER_410: to bust the the budget 1.2 1.3 and everybody will have something but here's the crazy thing i mean

David Sacks: the u.s government debt is now at 100 percent of gdp we owe our entire economy uh it's pretty crazy and

SPEAKER_192: there's still other countries that are 1.5 right and double like japan and others yeah it's not

David Sacks: unprecedented but biden biden's six trillion dollar budget would increase our budget debt our debt from 100 of gdp to 117 percent if he gets his way too much it's a world war ii level of spending but what is the benefit equivalent to world war ii that we're getting out of this thing well also we have

SPEAKER_34: a surplus in so many states that we're doing lotteries thank you queen of quinoa rain man

SPEAKER_192: and the dictator uh i'm jason calacanis we'll see you next time on the all in podcast bye