SPEAKER_01: Hey, everybody. Welcome to This Week in Android. I'm your host, Ashley Scala.

SPEAKER_03: And, hey, look. The Google person that I had promised. I called it so you made it. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_04: Nice to be here.

SPEAKER_03: And this is Dominic Mazzoni. He is the creator of RingDroid, which is our app of the week. And you'll be here with us the whole show, so really appreciate having you. And as always, my co-hosts...

SPEAKER_05: We are here. Mark Jeffrey. We need to not be anywhere else.

SPEAKER_03: Yep. And Jeff Ammons. Thanks for... You guys have coffee? Like, you're so laid back back there. It's like it's a talk show or something. I feel like this is the view, like, for Android. It's weird. Aw, thanks, CryptoVenom. He says we love Android in the chat room. We do, too.

SPEAKER_10: And so, obviously, I feel like we're going to talk about, like, a new phone every single week. Because at the rate that they're releasing different handsets, like, obviously, the big news this week was the Droid Incredible, the world's worst-kept secret in mobile, finally announced. HTC and Verizon finally got out there and said, all right, it's real. All the leaks that you saw, the pictures you saw, it's exactly what it is. We're looking at Android 2.1 with Sense, and it's a little customized HTC, from what I've heard. It's got the 1 GHz, which is now sort of becoming the bar at which phones are now entering the market. 1 GHz Snapdragon processor. They've got a friend stream for Flickr, Facebook, and Twitter. We're looking at LeapView for quick access to all seven of your home screens on Android. 8 megapixel camera. Dual LED flash. Really nice.

SPEAKER_13: Yeah, that sounds pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_10: AMOLED screen.

SPEAKER_13: Very nice.

SPEAKER_10: Very pretty. Optical joystick. They're now switching over to the optical stuff. Integrated GPS. Proximity sensor. All that stuff. So, I have to admit, I was wrong.

SPEAKER_17: I was so wrong last week.

SPEAKER_18: We showed last week.

SPEAKER_17: And I said, this can't be there. This looks like the Evo.

SPEAKER_18: You thought it was an Evo that was, like, retouched up or something, right?

SPEAKER_17: Yeah, that was, like, a little smaller. And I was just like, well, I think it's the Evo. But I was wrong.

SPEAKER_19: In fact, it was, in fact, the phone.

SPEAKER_10: It was the Incredible. I was expecting to look more like the Desire. And so, from what I had heard.

SPEAKER_20: Right.

SPEAKER_10: So, but I was wrong.

SPEAKER_20: Is it mea culpa? It happens every once in a while.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it happens. Yeah, and it's got the red battery and very Verizon. Like, it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_23: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: I like it a lot. So, uh.

SPEAKER_23: Not AT&T.

SPEAKER_25: So, we love that. Yeah, no, it's not on the AT&T network. I had to give a little dig on it. My Sholee dig on the AT&T network.

SPEAKER_26: AT&T, I know. It's not necessarily Apple. Like, it's just AT&T's network is just really, it's just not there.

SPEAKER_27: Horrific.

SPEAKER_10: It's horrendous. I mean, it's just bad.

SPEAKER_27: It's a good word for it.

SPEAKER_10: So, and, but, you know, the thing that surprises me about this phone is usually we see phones announced months in advance of their release. And this one comes out in two weeks. You can go pick it up on the 29th of April. So.

SPEAKER_30: It's not even shocking for me. I was expecting a couple months lead time or something like that.

SPEAKER_34: Right.

SPEAKER_30: I kind of prefer it this way, though.

SPEAKER_34: Do you, do you, okay, so you prefer it this way.

SPEAKER_35: They have been leaking stuff for the last, like, two months or whatever. I don't know how long it's been.

SPEAKER_37: But you prefer the official announcement and a quick engagement, so to speak, before you marry a phone.

SPEAKER_39: Don't you think the leaks generate better buzz anyway?

SPEAKER_35: Yeah, probably. Yeah. Because then you get all, because you get so many different versions of the rumors and people are trying to track down which ones are true.

SPEAKER_43: People are talking about it.

SPEAKER_47: I'm yet to hear anyone admit that they're actually leaking things on purpose in order to generate the buzz, but it seems to be working anyway.

SPEAKER_49: It seems to be in every other industry.

SPEAKER_51: Do you think the speed is related to the fact that there's so much competition in the Android space for handsets?

SPEAKER_52: I think so.

SPEAKER_51: I think so, too. I mean, that's, I'm guessing, but that's what I would think of that.

SPEAKER_55: With the Evo coming up, I think a lot of, I mean, it's in the same family, but I definitely think that in terms of releases,

SPEAKER_10: phones are being released so, so quickly right now that it's just a matter of, I think that the idea is to keep the excitement going for two weeks as opposed to letting it die off after a couple of months.

SPEAKER_56: Right.

SPEAKER_10: And so, because now, I mean, when this got announced yesterday, I had, like, six, seven people text me.

SPEAKER_55: Friends, like, good friends going, oh, my gosh, this phone is so amazing. Like, I can't, you know, I'm going to go get one. Like, the second, because I had a friend who was like, I'm thinking about getting a Droid.

SPEAKER_37: And I'm like, no, just wait. Like, just read the signs, read between the lines here.

SPEAKER_60: Well, that's an interesting point, because, like, once you get one of these phones, you're not going to get another one for a while.

SPEAKER_51: Right. You're not just going to keep buying them, unless you're Jason Calcanis, in which case you'll buy, like, five of them the next day. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_63: But nonetheless, most people will basically, they'll get the phone, they will not upgrade it, they'll just hang on to it for a year.

SPEAKER_65: A year at least.

SPEAKER_10: Like, with Sprint, they have, if you're a Premier member, you get the $150 rebate every year. Yeah. And so, which is great. Um, I'm a big fan of that. But, like, you know, a lot of places, like, up in Canada, it's three years. People have to wait three.

SPEAKER_32: Their contracts are for three years for a phone. Which is insane.

SPEAKER_37: Like, who, I couldn't wait that long, like, to upgrade my phone. Like, I need a new phone. Like, I feel like I need a new phone every six months. My fiance's always like, oh, you're so obsessed with phones. Like, you always want a new one.

SPEAKER_72: Well, you only host a show about.

SPEAKER_17: I know, I'm like, it's, that's all about, like, I just, I love, I just, I love the idea of getting, like, I, I like to upgrade stuff all the time, so.

SPEAKER_10: But, um, but I definitely think that, again, the magic price point, $199 after rebates.

SPEAKER_76: Yeah.

SPEAKER_26: That's the, that's the sweet spot, I think, right now.

SPEAKER_77: So, it's going to be a huge hit, you think?

SPEAKER_26: Huge.

SPEAKER_77: Huge. Bigger than, bigger than, uh, than the Nexus One, you think?

SPEAKER_10: You know what? I actually feel like, um, HTC took a lot of wind out of the Nexus One sales. Because of, like, I know that we talked about last week how a lot of people were saying that there were some problems. And, yeah.

SPEAKER_26: I know that there's been a screen issue, like, they're saying, like, it's sort of reversed, the axis reversed on some of the touchscreens. Have you ever, have you had any? No, I haven't had any problems at all, yeah.

SPEAKER_35: But, um. If you look at the sales, it's like, if you compare iPhone to Droid, it's actually been, they're pretty comparable recently. But then you look at Nexus One, Nexus One's actually very small in terms of sales. Yeah. So, really, the Droid is the one that we should.

SPEAKER_86: Yeah, like, Droid has been the one that's gotten the big marketing push.

SPEAKER_87: Yeah. I mean, Nexus One is so different. I mean, with Google selling it directly and without sort of the presence in all of the stores, I mean, still most people are buying their phones by walking into a Verizon store, a T-Mobile store. And that's really what's driving the sales. So, um, I don't, I don't expect, I think that Nexus One might be just, like, way ahead of the game in terms of its sales model. But Google doesn't seem to care about, like, actual numbers. I mean, it's the Android platforms who are more important. And the Nexus One is an example of a great phone.

SPEAKER_91: Um, but there's so many others to choose from, too.

SPEAKER_90: Well, and I think that mainstream, a mainstream user who's not exactly at the highest end of tech, who just doesn't really read, like, tech websites, tech blogs.

SPEAKER_10: You know, like, I'm on top of, like, every tech website. And I'm, like, I know what phones are coming out. I know what I want. But, like, you know, somebody like, for example, my mom is not going to know about the Nexus One. Like, she's not going to know to go online and look for one. And she's going to say, well, I'm going to go into my store and I want to see it. I want to feel it. I want to play with it. I want to, you know, I want a tour of it by an associate.

SPEAKER_96: I do start to worry that so many of the Android phones look so similar that how is an average user like that going to know?

SPEAKER_87: I mean, maybe if they're smart enough to realize that they want Android, that's great. Are they going to know which one they want based on, you know, are the features that are advertised, like, 8 megapixel camera versus 5?

SPEAKER_99: Is that why somebody should be deciding to go for one phone over another?

SPEAKER_97: Right.

SPEAKER_10: And that's sort of a, like, I mean, if you do, if you want to do photography, like, I had heard about a guy who I guess is doing, not Android related, but he's using his palm pre to do landscape portraits of nature. Like, that's his, like, professional photography.

SPEAKER_55: Like, he's doing this whole, like, movement thing where he does these, like, amazing landscape portraiture of stuff. But, I mean, like, if you're doing something like that, I could see where it would come in handy. But I don't know. Like, for a user to come in and be like, well, this one has 5, this one has 8.

SPEAKER_17: I'll take the one with 8. Like, it seems, I mean, that's something that would not surprise me to hear inside a store. Sure, yeah. But, um.

SPEAKER_87: Really, just the point is that there are often a lot of differences between the phones, but they're not quite as apparent sometimes.

SPEAKER_91: It's a lot harder to dig in and see which one is really a stronger phone overall.

SPEAKER_107: Yeah.

SPEAKER_35: Like, when I showed up to buy my Droid at the Verizon store, I went on the first day, and I just walked in the store. I'm like, I'll take a Droid.

SPEAKER_109: And the guy's like, do you want to, like, look at it? Play with it? I'm like, I've done so much research on this thing. Just give it to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_35: And so it's, like, that's kind of a testament to how people actually shop for phones. Like, they're going to go in, they're going to play with it, they're going to see what it looks like, and they're going to make a decision based on that.

SPEAKER_37: They'll leave, they'll come back a week later. You know, like, that's the, no, but that's the same, I have the same problem.

SPEAKER_10: Like, where you walk in and people, like, they're shocked that you don't want to actually just try it. Like, I walked in, I was like, like, when I got my phone last year, I was like, that's what I want. I'll take it. And they were like, you don't want to look at it either.

SPEAKER_17: Nope, that's what I want. I've done plenty of research, I've been waiting, I've been reading blogs for weeks and weeks and weeks about this phone. I'm ready, give it to me right now. Like, that's it.

SPEAKER_113: So, but I definitely think, like, in terms of marketing, like, I really think that you're going to see the Incredible get tons of marketing, like the Droid did.

SPEAKER_37: Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: Because it's the Droid Incredible. It's actually the Droid Incredible now, it's not the HTC Incredible.

SPEAKER_23: So, will they, do you think they'll market it towards guys again, the same way they did with the Droid?

SPEAKER_10: You know, I was talking to a friend about that, because she was saying, she's like, it's just so ugly. Like, it's, again, like, she's like, I just, I don't like the form factor. And I think that barely they're now sort of getting into this, like, I think that just from the renders and the picture that they have online, I think that they're getting to a more unisex phone, like the iPhone. Yeah, yeah. Very unisex.

SPEAKER_55: And it has the same, it's very reminiscent of that iPhone factor where it's, like, either a man or a woman can use it.

SPEAKER_127: Not bad, we went 15 minutes without talking about the iPhone.

SPEAKER_55: I know, God, we went, like, 15 whole minutes. But I definitely think that, like, they're saying on the Verizon store, there's already accessories, like case accessories that have, like, gradients on them. And I think they're going to go for a more, like, here's a unisex phone, customize it.

SPEAKER_50: Yeah, that would make sense. That would actually be smarter, I think.

SPEAKER_55: And I think that that's a really intelligent thing for them to do.

SPEAKER_37: Like, somebody told me on Twitter this week, I had mentioned the Droid Eris, and he was like, I work in a Verizon store, and every time a guy buys a Droid Eris, I told him they bought the girl phone.

SPEAKER_132: It's like the Miata phone, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_32: And it makes me laugh every time I see them. I'm just like, yeah, you're, like, it is kind of, like, it's a little bit curvier, like, it's softer.

SPEAKER_77: Yeah, you don't want to be, if you're a dude, you don't want to have that phone, sorry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: And I thought it was really interesting how they described the incredible, like, if you look at the, if you look at the whole thing with, there was, like, a press release that came out for it, and it was, like, I forget where I saw this, it might have been on, like, Fandroid or Android Central, and then basically they described the user of the incredible as a power connector, which, um. A power connector? Yeah, and they have this, like, uh, this round sort of, uh, graph, and it has, like, uh, tech, business, um, media and something. Like, it's like a, it's like a circle, and they, it's, like, way up on the top left, and it's, um, basically the description they use of a power connector is they work to live. Uh, they're at meetings, openings, dinners, out for drinks, they need constant access to work, but without being branded a suit, and play is the badge that they want to cultivate and wear. So, interesting sort of, like, they're very specific about who's using this phone.

SPEAKER_141: Hmm.

SPEAKER_10: Which is basically me. Yeah. Like, I read that, and I was like, that's me.

SPEAKER_17: Like, that's exactly, I, like, I like, I work so that I can play. Yeah. Like, I can do fun stuff.

SPEAKER_143: Do you enjoy what you do, though?

SPEAKER_17: I do. God, I love this.

SPEAKER_32: I love doing this. I know you do. Who wouldn't want to come hang out with that? I know.

SPEAKER_37: I love having to hang out with you. Yes, that's your job. Just hang out with us. It's a great, like, God, if someone told me, I'm going to pay you to hang out with two cool guys, I'll be like, done. So, yeah, and I know, I really enjoy it. And Dominic.

SPEAKER_113: Yeah, I get to meet cool new people every week, and talk to them about developing apps, and, um, you know, and, and I thought it was really interesting, um, last thing I'll mention is,

SPEAKER_10: my dad had said when I was talking to him at when the Incredible got, uh, announced, uh, yesterday.

SPEAKER_149: Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: He was like, where did this company come from? Like, he just got a hero, and he, he just upgraded. My mom just got a moment. And so, he's like, where did HTC even come from? Like, they just came out of nowhere. They have just, like, a good. With these amazing phones. Like, they're just, it's all use first, and then everything else later.

SPEAKER_87: Well, didn't they have some phones for a while that were actually pretty popular, but just not HTC branded?

SPEAKER_153: I think they had a Touch that was on Sprint for a while, and that was pretty popular. But Windows Mobile phones. Yeah, they were Windows. Yeah.

SPEAKER_87: I mean, so, like, people might have had HTC and just not even thought about the name, or they weren't getting, like, first billing. It wasn't HTC written everywhere.

SPEAKER_60: Well, the first I heard of them was when Google kind of knighted them, you know what I mean, for the Nexus One.

SPEAKER_10: And then they rebranded and did the quietly brilliant, you know, tagline and really got out there and was like, this is, we are HTC. Like, it's no longer, well, we'll just hide in the background and, you know. But I just think it's really cool that, like, even somebody like my dad, who's not necessarily, like, super into tech,

SPEAKER_32: is just like, where'd this company come from? Like, they just came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_161: Yeah, see, Wikipedia says they were founded in 1997, and they used to do Windows Mobile.

SPEAKER_35: In 2009, they shifted to Android. So, it's possible. They always had good hardware, and they're just now shifting to a good set of software.

SPEAKER_26: Right.

SPEAKER_35: And so, people are hearing it from them.

SPEAKER_10: So, I definitely think that we're going to see, obviously, the incredible poise-to-do battle with the Evo this summer. I don't know how much you can really do battle in terms of 4G versus 3G, but for most of the country, they don't have 4G yet. So, I think that even if it was, I mean, it's a bigger screen for the Evo. It's 4.3-inch, which is huge.

SPEAKER_55: Like, I didn't realize how big that was until I went and saw the HD2 Touch. I saw that, and I was just like, oh, my God, this screen's going to be 4.3 HD. This is insane.

SPEAKER_10: Like, it's giant. So, yeah, I'm curious to see how well and how hard the marketing push is and how well it does with the Droid Incredible. So, good job, HTC. High fives on that. Like, looking forward to more. Like, I mean, I just really see, like, some amazing things coming out, and I've heard that they're working on an Android tablet as well.

SPEAKER_177: That's what I'm interested in. I mean, we've all got our iPads now.

SPEAKER_10: Yeah.

SPEAKER_180: Now that Apple has made the iPad and the concept of a tablet a household item,

SPEAKER_157: like, it's, I mean, they've basically opened Pandora's box in terms of...

SPEAKER_184: It makes you want, I mean, I've had an iPad now for a week and a half, and already I want more. It's changed your life. Yeah. In some ways it has.

SPEAKER_188: I mean, I would say it's changed my behaviors in some ways.

SPEAKER_10: Well, the president of, was it Iceland?

SPEAKER_190: With the volcano, he's been, like, running the country from New York from his iPad. Is that so? There was an article about that today. Really? About how he was, like, sitting at... Is there an app for that? There must be an app for that. Dictator 1.0. Like, yeah, some crazy, like, volcano management. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_194: So, the volcano is an accident. Volcanoizer?

SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I just, I can't believe the president of Norway. Okay, there we go. One of our illustrious, intelligent readers. President of Norway. Yeah, president of Norway.

SPEAKER_190: Dude, because he can't get back to his country because of all the volcanic ash in here. So, he's been running the country from his iPad. Like, doing that and, like, checking his emails and stuff. And then he... He's just watching Netflix. I know, exactly. It's just like...

SPEAKER_199: The volcano thing. Forget about it.

SPEAKER_190: So, but yeah, and then we have somebody giving us a whole bunch of information on HTC.

SPEAKER_10: Fastest-growing companies and one of the fastest-growing companies in the mobile sector. Remarkable recognition, absolutely. So, just really good stuff. They have that app. I think it's called Pocket God. Very nice. Yeah. Good.

SPEAKER_202: Pocket dictator.

SPEAKER_10: Exactly. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_17: We're switching it up a little bit this week. We're not going to wait to do the news. We're going to give you your news right up front. So, Mark, let's do the news.

SPEAKER_208: Okay, so the first story of the day from Fandroid, P-H-A-N-D-R-O, Fandroid, spelled that way.

SPEAKER_209: Android Market is now in 46 countries.

SPEAKER_184: So, according to the App Store Analytics group Distimo, which has a little octopus logo, I think. That's what I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_51: Android, Android, the Android Market has found its way into 46 countries, which is 25 more than just a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_184: So, I remember we were talking about this, yeah, a couple weeks ago, actually.

SPEAKER_213: This is a huge jump. I mean, I was like, really? Is that right? So, among the countries, Brazil. Well, that should be huge for them. I would think, right?

SPEAKER_51: Thailand, Israel. The number of countries with access to paid apps has grown up to 13.

SPEAKER_184: So, Australia has joined. So, I guess it wasn't just Canada that didn't have paid apps. It seems to be a problem in several countries.

SPEAKER_17: It takes a long time to get international paid app markets, like from what I've seen.

SPEAKER_188: Why is that? I just don't understand that.

SPEAKER_113: I'm not sure. You know, maybe we should bring in somebody. Why is that hard?

SPEAKER_188: I mean, like, really?

SPEAKER_113: Do you have any idea why that would be? Like, just out of care.

SPEAKER_190: I mean, just.

SPEAKER_87: But I think that once you're talking about, I think there's legal issues involved.

SPEAKER_221: Well, no, there are, but I just don't understand why other countries, why there's so many legal hurdles involved with buying virtual goods, I guess.

SPEAKER_96: I don't think that it's necessarily that there's any impossible hurdles, but maybe it just takes

SPEAKER_87: a lot of effort, and it's a question of how many, you know, how many different countries

SPEAKER_225: you want to work on at a time.

SPEAKER_51: Is it because it's on a phone as opposed to on a desktop, do you think? Do you think it's because the carriers are involved and there's regulations and stuff like that? That would be my guess.

SPEAKER_226: I think taxes might be a big obstacle.

SPEAKER_213: No, but taxes are, I don't know. I mean, for online stuff, I think we're past the tax stuff, I would think. Yeah. But I think it's because telcos are involved. That's what I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_35: It's got to be, because you can download something from any country you want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_180: Yeah, I think the telco, I think that's probably the big. There's regulation that they have to, like, untangle.

SPEAKER_10: Yeah, the regulations and, like, even in, I mean, the one thing that we talked about last week was in the Android market in South Korea, they took away all the games. Right.

SPEAKER_55: Because they weren't being approved. They have to each individually be approved, and so Google decided then we'll just pull games from the South Korean Android market because it was just easier. Yeah. And that way they wouldn't get in trouble. And so I think that in terms of that, like, different countries have different regulations also for telco, but, you know, not only for telco, but for other things. So they might just say, well, no R-rated apps, no X-rated apps, whatever. And so that also takes a lot of time. Yeah. Maybe.

SPEAKER_237: I know Australia has a bunch of regulations on software, so.

SPEAKER_55: Okay.

SPEAKER_237: They're trying to add a lot more. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_241: Really?

SPEAKER_87: It's pretty ugly. There's been a lot of news about Australian internet filtering, but I think it's still sort of a hot debate area down there. It's people who want to regulate content on the internet more than is really possible or is just the norm anywhere else.

SPEAKER_248: But, yeah. Love to see what happens there. I'm sure that that would slow things down.

SPEAKER_53: To keep an eye on that. Yeah. I mean, that's very, I did not know that, so thanks. Like, now I want to.

SPEAKER_35: Mainly with games, but they're also doing internet sensor, or talking about internet sensor. Huh. Yeah, it's not pretty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_51: Okay. Next story. 38,000 apps in the market. Nexus One is bringing in profits. Yeah. So Nexus One is actually. We were talking about the app.

SPEAKER_259: They did say they were profit. It is profitable.

SPEAKER_51: Because Google, they had their earnings call, I think, yesterday. Uh-huh. It must have been yesterday. So Google's earnings are up for this year. What a surprise.

SPEAKER_261: They're doing very well.

SPEAKER_51: 5.06 billion this past quarter.

SPEAKER_265: Quarter. Quarter. Quarter. I love it.

SPEAKER_51: The 19% increase, this was a 19% increase over last year, with Android being a significant

SPEAKER_267: part of it. I'm trying to see here how significant.

SPEAKER_55: I just, I love this part of this news article that says that basically from last September

SPEAKER_10: to now, the Android market has grown 28,000 apps.

SPEAKER_271: That's insane.

SPEAKER_10: Since last September. Which is, they had 10,000 then, and now they have.

SPEAKER_272: Yeah, there's very little doubt that that marketplace is, every bit as vibrant as Apple's. Yeah. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_25: Even though the number of apps are lower, it's catching up very fast.

SPEAKER_156: Well, but I mean, Apple's. It's because people started writing farting apps for Android.

SPEAKER_275: Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_276: Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_87: It doesn't really mean, I don't think it necessarily means much about quality. I mean, back when they were under 10,000, there were some amazing apps. And, I mean, there are more and more good apps all the time. I think there are more sort of uniquely amazing apps probably still for the iPhone, but it's hard to name a category where there aren't, like, outstanding apps for any area of productivity or gaming or something like that. Right. There are good apps.

SPEAKER_277: Have you programmed for both devices?

SPEAKER_156: I've done Mac development. I haven't done iPhone development. Okay. But you've done, you play around with Coco, I imagine. Yeah. Objective-C.

SPEAKER_184: So, would you get, based on what you know, is it easier on one platform versus the other or what would you think?

SPEAKER_87: No, I don't, I think for some people it might be, it depends a lot on what you're trying to write. I mean, Coco's a great API. Android's a great API. I think they both have strengths and weaknesses. I'm the kind of developer where the language and the environment, they're just tools, and if they make it possible, then I'll get it done, and it doesn't necessarily matter.

SPEAKER_285: Yeah, so you don't really feel one is better than the other.

SPEAKER_87: No, I don't think inherently. I do think that they both have some significant weaknesses, and I hope they both improve, but they're very different. Got it. Okay. Yeah, but in terms of, I mean, for most, I think most productivity and sort of interesting apps, like, you know, if you want, like, a really good Twitter client or something like that, I mean, both APIs are equally good for creating something like that. It's just a question of resources because they are completely different. You can't share any code in common. That's the main thing. Yeah. But, but. You can't develop for both platforms easily. No. And Apple just made it even harder. Some people were trying to bridge the gap. It doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon, but, but honestly, they're both great platforms, and so if you get someone who learns to do Android development, someone who learns to do iPhone development, or even someone who learns to do both, it's not like there's any inherent difficult challenge to any one particular one, but then I think there are other apps that really sort of push one particular platform to the limits. There are things you can only do on an iPhone currently. There are things you can only do on Android currently, and I think those are particularly interesting, really sort of pushing things in new directions. And both platforms have lots of really cool things like that.

SPEAKER_209: Yeah. I agree. Cool. The other bit of this news article was that the Nexus One is actually turning a profit.

SPEAKER_51: There was some debate over the business plan of selling an unsubsidized phone through the website, and it appears that Google was right after all.

SPEAKER_267: Yeah. So.

SPEAKER_55: I think, you know, like you were saying, it was a small amount, but I think in terms of when you're selling it unsubsidized, you're not dealing with carriers who are taking cuts of what you're making off the phone, who want to do rebates and all this other stuff, I mean, I think obviously you can make it, you don't have to sell nearly as many to make it a profitable business venture.

SPEAKER_87: Well, just to clear, I mean, be clear, Apple is selling the Nexus One with the carrier bait if you want. I don't know the breakdown. That would be interesting. I mean, I think it's really one of the key markets for that. I could be wrong. I think it's really key for developers, because for developers, you might have one phone, but I mean, you're locked into your contract just like everyone else, maybe when you're on Sprint. But if you're a developer, you have the budget, if you're going to be making money on it, and

SPEAKER_91: you don't want to be locked into a contract, but you want a phone that works, you want it unlocked, you want to be able to swap SIM cards.

SPEAKER_53: That makes sense.

SPEAKER_55: I think that that's probably the most concise and applicable explanation as to why a lot of people would go with an unlocked phone. For development, I think that makes, to me, that makes the most sense.

SPEAKER_95: Perfect sense there. I think there's also probably a lot of other people who want an unlocked phone, but it's

SPEAKER_87: still really hard, I think, in the U.S. to just, you can't just walk into, I mean, try walking into an AT&T store and say, I just want a plan. I don't want a phone. Right. Yeah. They want to understand what you're saying. You can do this in Europe. You can do it in Mexico. You can do it in Asia. I mean, almost anywhere else, you can just walk in, and they'll hand you a SIM card. But you can't do that here. T-Mobile is the closest right now, but it's not exactly that easy. But, I mean, they actually will charge you less if you don't want a phone, if you already

SPEAKER_305: have a phone. But I don't know how easy that is in most stores. I'll bet most salespeople still look at you funny and like, what?

SPEAKER_204: I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_296: I don't understand what you're talking to me about. You don't want a phone. You just want a plan. I need to go get my manager.

SPEAKER_310: I think if anyone wants to do that, the best thing to do would be to bring in your phone and you say, I already have this phone. Right. Could you just... Can I put a plan on this?

SPEAKER_87: Yeah, that would make sense. I'm not trying to knock the salespeople. It's just, that's not the way it works right now. Yeah. And I hope that the Nexus one will start to change that. Yeah. I hope that we'll start seeing more phones that you can just buy unlocked. And I'd love to buy a plan. I'd love to not be locked in if I don't want to. I'd love to try Verizon for a month and see how the reception is at home. I mean, how else can I do that?

SPEAKER_17: I know Sprint has something similar to that, but you have to get a Sprint phone, which is you have... They do their 30-day money back, which we talked about,

SPEAKER_55: where they're saying, we'll give you 30 days with the service, 30 days... And then we will literally refund every penny you paid to us. Like, no questions asked if you hate the service. Right. If you're unhappy with it for any reason, we'll give you...

SPEAKER_91: I'd love to hear stories from people if they've actually done that successfully.

SPEAKER_10: As far as I've heard, it's... Like, there's a couple people on, like, Consumerist. Like, I think it was on Consumerist. I've heard a couple people say that it was pretty seamless.

SPEAKER_55: They just called and they went into the store and said, you know what, I just don't get service in my house. Like, I think one person was talking about how they lived in mountains or hilly area or something like that, and she just said, I just didn't have very good service. And I wanted to try it, but I just, you know, I took it back and I said, I just, you know, I just don't have service. And so they refunded everything.

SPEAKER_318: That's really good to hear.

SPEAKER_55: Yeah, no, which I would like to see all of the carriers do that.

SPEAKER_17: Because I think that that's, I think that's fair. I mean, you know, I don't want to get locked into a two-year contract and then go home. Like, I get great service at the Verizon store, and then I go home to my little podunk town out by Palm Springs, and it's like, well, what do you mean I don't have any service out here?

SPEAKER_320: Like, I got to take my phone.

SPEAKER_17: Well, sorry, you're locked in for two years. Yeah. Sorry. So, but did you happen to notice in that article,

SPEAKER_03: the Google thing that they're seeing Android itself is seeing 60,000 device activations a day? I did see that.

SPEAKER_324: That was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_03: That's 60,000 a day. Like, that's, I mean, I understand that across carriers, we've got multiple devices and, you know, all sorts of different things.

SPEAKER_326: And that's worldwide, too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10: That's so great.

SPEAKER_326: Total per day. Yeah, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_327: That's so good. Like, I'm excited about that. Okay.

SPEAKER_78: So, you know, what I'm excited about is the next article, where it says Flash 10.1 is coming to Android in the second half of 2010.

SPEAKER_51: So now we'd expected it sooner. They had basically, everyone sort of thought it was going to happen a little bit sooner. But Adobe didn't make their deadline for their beta at last year's Max conference. But they are promising by the second half of the second half of this year. Of course, absent from that announcement was Apple. No surprise there.

SPEAKER_329: No love between the two.

SPEAKER_51: Yeah, not at all. So the question I have is, so we talked a little bit, and I guess it was somebody in the chat room said, oh, it's an unfair question.

SPEAKER_184: Is it easier to develop on the iPhone or an Android device? Which is probably true. I mean, it depends on what language you're familiar with or if you're equally familiar with both. Right. Once Flash appears on the Android device and people can make Flash applications, I would posit to you that it is a lot easier because there's an army of Flash developers out there.

SPEAKER_332: And with error.

SPEAKER_184: They're not programmers. Coming out. Right? Yeah. Necessarily.

SPEAKER_333: Well, that's not necessarily true. Oh, that's true. But you're right.

SPEAKER_87: There's some people who create great Flash animations without necessarily a lot of programming. A lot of Flash is just all programming. Yeah. I mean, everything from scratch runs the whole gamut. But it's true, I mean, if you're already a Flash developer, if you already have, and Flash already has sort of an ecosystem of tools and community and all that. So, yeah, if you already know Flash, you already have some cool things in Flash, you could port that to Android just like that, no question. Right. And now, what do you...

SPEAKER_341: Pretty good. And with error. Yeah. Especially with error coming out. Yeah. And having it be multi-platform.

SPEAKER_342: Well, the point is that suddenly there's a lot more, there's a much larger base of developers.

SPEAKER_55: You just all of a sudden absorb a large amount of, yeah, exactly. I mean, just by having it available as a, you know, development platform, you're just opening the door to a whole bunch of people who've been doing Flash for years and years and years. As opposed to people who are just starting with Android like a year ago.

SPEAKER_344: Yeah. I mentioned this to my friend who has an iPhone and his response was, I don't need Flash anyway. You're in denial, man.

SPEAKER_348: I just, like, yeah, I get, like, I wonder about that. Because, like, I, you know, I appreciate that HTML5 is, I will give credit where credit's due, HTML5 is great.

SPEAKER_10: But, like, I see Flash everywhere on the internet. And so I can't, I can't imagine having, like, I'm excited about having Flash. Like, it's been hard to not have it on a phone. But, like, once we have it, I'm, I'm going to look at a phone without it as, like, what is this?

SPEAKER_310: Like, I'm just, this is. Well, you got to admit, though, you still go to some sites and you discover that the site is built in Flash. Yeah.

SPEAKER_87: And you cringe because you know that you're going to have to learn how to interact with their scroll bar. Right. And so, now, on, so on the one hand, like, I, I, I really like the fact that, I mean, I think that, that it's been a good thing that mobile devices have gotten so powerful they can browse the web, but they haven't had Flash because it's forced some websites to rethink whether they really should be building their entire website on Flash.

SPEAKER_99: It means they're harder to search, they're harder to use on a small device, they're harder to use on a slow computer.

SPEAKER_184: But something like YouTube that uses Flash, I mean, the, the, the site itself is not Flash, but YouTube is completely inaccessible for the most part. If you don't. From the iPad or the iPhone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_278: Well, I mean, that's why they created YouTube apps. Yeah. That's, that's a special case because, I mean, I mean, video is, is, I think, a different case.

SPEAKER_87: And for video, there are other methods. But, I mean, for, for smaller video sites, there's no question you can't access those.

SPEAKER_35: I think people will still realize, like, if their site's unusable from a mobile device because it's written in Flash, like, even though, even if Flash is working, I think people will still realize they have to find something else.

SPEAKER_87: But, I agree, though. As a device owner, I mean, there have been times when I've wanted to do something from my phone, from my browser, that I wouldn't normally want to do on a small device, but that's all I've got. Like, I want to look up something on this website and, like, ah, but there's Flash.

SPEAKER_372: Like, sometimes I need to feed my fish billfish, and I can't do that from my cell phone.

SPEAKER_55: And then they get sick and die.

SPEAKER_374: It's a problem.

SPEAKER_55: It's a huge, that's a huge problem. It's huge, it's an epidemic.

SPEAKER_374: It's a huge issue.

SPEAKER_55: People can't feed their fish billfish. Flash. Very sad.

SPEAKER_18: Saving lives. Saving fish lives. Moving right along.

SPEAKER_376: I know, exactly.

SPEAKER_18: So, Google is reportedly working on its own Android-based tablet to compete with the evil jobs machine,

SPEAKER_208: which, yes, I did bring it with me.

SPEAKER_90: Well, you never go anywhere without it. Behold the iPad.

SPEAKER_208: Yes, I know.

SPEAKER_90: I don't have anything against the iPad. Like, I think it's a great... Touch it. I know, it's so lovely.

SPEAKER_17: Like, I can feel the power emanating from it. It's great. Like, I use my friends all the time. Like, I like to mess around with it and stuff.

SPEAKER_209: Which case is this? It's, I don't know. It's one Apple tries to upsell you. Okay. I like it. Yeah, it's pretty nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_385: Obviously, they succeeded.

SPEAKER_209: Yes, exactly. I'm not touching that. I know, he hates it. He might burst into flames. No, I didn't play with one the other day. Yeah. His skin's going to start boiling. So, let me get to the Android version of this.

SPEAKER_51: So, basically, Schmidt, Eric Schmidt, was at a party here in Los Angeles. And apparently, he was, I don't know, talking a little bit. Yeah, I heard about this. And it sort of slipped out. He was talking to friends. And he said that they're working on an Android-based tablet. And they're experimenting with it in stealth mode with a few publishers, basically, for books and magazines and content. So, pretty much what the iPad is, right? Which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_390: Which is, like, the Nexus One version of a tablet. So, kind of neat.

SPEAKER_209: So, basically, the question is, is this real? So, basically, like a Nexus One of tablets. So, the question is, is this real? Do you guys think this is really happening? I mean, I guess you can't really comment.

SPEAKER_87: I work at Google, but I don't work on Android. So, I don't really have any insight on this.

SPEAKER_10: I'd say it's definitely, it would be surprising to me if it wasn't real.

SPEAKER_395: Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_10: It would shock me.

SPEAKER_55: Because they've already shown, like, especially with this week, they've already shown that they can be profitable with the Nexus One. And so, I think in terms of that, obviously, the next step would be to go forward and make a tablet.

SPEAKER_35: The interesting thing for me was that they're using Android versus the Chrome OS. I agree.

SPEAKER_399: Yeah, that is interesting. I'm not sure why they're doing that. Probably. Are you excited about why they would do that?

SPEAKER_87: Well, the only thing I can say is that Google's publicly said that, you know, they believe in both Android and Chrome OS, and that they think that they're different, they're both interesting approaches, and that they're going to move forward with both for the near future.

SPEAKER_10: Perhaps with a tablet, it's more like, because of the Android marketplace, things like apps, like, I mean, I think that the bar has been set very high by Apple.

SPEAKER_55: I mean, it's not insurmountable, but they've done very well with what they have made. And I think that in terms of, that's also an interesting point.

SPEAKER_341: Mike Full says, Chrome OS equals full online, Android works offline, too.

SPEAKER_184: Yeah, well, I mean, here's an interesting thing. Remember when Microsoft tried to do, they had their Windows product, and then they moved down to Windows CE for mobile devices and sort of smaller devices, and it basically was a failure. I mean, Windows CE was never really caught on the same way, the way Microsoft wanted it to.

SPEAKER_209: So maybe the idea of having, you know, right tool for the right job, the way Google's going about it, is the right answer.

SPEAKER_153: Do you think that one of the people in our chat room said, can't see why they won't merge them eventually? Do you think that that would be something they would consider in a few years?

SPEAKER_409: Merging operating systems is not the easiest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_10: Maybe just ideas, like, you know, things that people really love about Chrome, you know, being integrated into Android.

SPEAKER_55: You know, if Android really takes off and people don't exactly accept Chrome as much, like, you know, people really like Chrome, and I think that...

SPEAKER_30: Well, that's the cool thing about having some sort of variance in what you're working on, is you can pull ideas from one or the other. And they're both open source, so it's going to happen.

SPEAKER_411: So I think that both are Linux-based. That's true, so it may be easier to merge than I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_415: Well, it depends on what you mean by merge. I mean, well, first of all, I mean, Chrome OS, I mean, the code is out there, but it hasn't really been released.

SPEAKER_87: I mean, there's no devices for sale running Chrome OS yet. So I think we have to kind of wait and see what happens once you actually see the real experience.

SPEAKER_156: So I would assume that a Google tablet would run Flash.

SPEAKER_419: Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_184: Especially when it comes out. Now, Steve Jobs, when he was talking about the iPad...

SPEAKER_420: No. Just no.

SPEAKER_184: Just with Flash. Yeah, he basically said no, but the reason why he said...

SPEAKER_209: One of the things people love about the iPad is the battery life. The battery life is insane, and Jason was bringing this up on this weekend's iPad. Ten hours?

SPEAKER_51: Yes, sir. Yeah, I mean, I've heard 12 and 13 hours, and I've experienced about that myself, so it's pretty impressive. But Jobs said the reason why he didn't put Flash on Apple devices is because it'll chew the battery down, and it'll dramatically reduce the battery life. I would assume not just of Apple devices, it's a flaw inherent in Flash. That's what he says. Well, let me ask you this. Yes, or is it just to me?

SPEAKER_424: Well, I mean, I think if you want to take that argument out, you should play movies either.

SPEAKER_35: Yeah, I mean, why don't we just kill the Wi-Fi? I mean, that'll save a lot of money. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_430: Well, here's my question.

SPEAKER_10: In terms of screens, that's running an LED screen. Yeah. When AMOLED comes out for tablets, why not, is that going to substitute the battery life you're saving on the screen, then running Flash for the same amount of time?

SPEAKER_433: Yeah, I think it's BS, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_47: Yeah, I don't think that's, that could be one reason, but I don't think that alone is a good enough reason.

SPEAKER_87: I mean, if users want to use up their battery by playing a movie or by playing a Flash game, and if it kills their battery, people should have the choice to do that.

SPEAKER_10: I can't imagine carrying around a tablet all day without some plug somewhere. Like, I've never, like, people always complain about battery life. Well, yeah, I know, and I think that's great. I just, I can't, for me as a user, I can't imagine being out for so long without access to a plug. Like, that battery life is never a problem for me.

SPEAKER_37: Like, even when the pre came out last year and everyone was like, oh my god, this battery dies in like four hours. It was terrible.

SPEAKER_32: And like, I was just like, I don't have, like, I have not, I'm always next to a plug.

SPEAKER_17: Like, I should have one installed, like, on my arm. Like, I just, I'm always near a plug.

SPEAKER_445: Do you use a car adapter?

SPEAKER_10: Yeah.

SPEAKER_445: Okay, because. I use a car adapter.

SPEAKER_10: I mean, I've got everything. Like, I listen to Kevin Smith's Smodcast on the way down here every Friday. And like, it's just plugged in and it's charged. Like, anytime I go somewhere, it's plugged into my car. And like, I just can't imagine being in a position where I literally have no, unless I forget my cable. Yeah. I can't imagine being in a position where I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_449: International flights?

SPEAKER_10: Maybe. I guess international flight would probably be one. But then again, I mean, if you had a laptop, you could charge it from there.

SPEAKER_181: Like, don't a lot of international flights have, like, the Volt adapters and stuff?

SPEAKER_450: Yeah.

SPEAKER_87: I mean, it's true. I mean, a lot of people might not have them. I think that there are a lot of people where battery life is a concern for various reasons.

SPEAKER_453: Yeah, and I think that's people, college students walking around.

SPEAKER_87: I mean, it costs, yeah, I mean, it costs a lot of money if you want to get all the right adapters. And then you've got to remember to take them with you. That's true. They take up space. I mean, you know, for gadget freaks like us, I mean, we always have lots of extra power adapters. Also, I mean, if you always have the latest version of every gadget, and all your friends tend to have similar ones, you're like, hey, can I borrow your iPod charger? It's like, okay, can I borrow your, you know, USB charger? I mean, there aren't that many you need, right? I mean, I know we do this all the time in the office, right? I mean, everyone's trading adapters, you know, to plug things in. But, yeah, I think the, you know, I know when I'm traveling, I think it is more of a problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_51: Okay, I'm going to plow through a couple stories real quick here, because I know we're starting to run short on time.

SPEAKER_184: HTC is also working on an Android tablet and 1080p video for smartphones.

SPEAKER_459: Delicious. Yes.

SPEAKER_51: So very nice. I thought you used much to debate there, so let's move on.

SPEAKER_459: Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_51: The HTC Hero is going to update to 2.1 at the end of April.

SPEAKER_60: For Europe. Oh, is that really in Europe?

SPEAKER_461: And then we're getting it two weeks later in the beginning of May.

SPEAKER_37: I saw that, they said, oh, by the way, with the legend and the design, like, people are, like, really wanting 2.1.

SPEAKER_10: And so they're releasing 2.1 at the end of April for UK and Europe, and then we can have later.

SPEAKER_209: We're all important.

SPEAKER_10: We're all unique snowflakes.

SPEAKER_467: Exactly.

SPEAKER_209: And related to that, Android 2.1 is now on more than a quarter of Android phones.

SPEAKER_78: So I thought we were kind of last in line. Yeah, I guess we're not. I guess not.

SPEAKER_461: Well, the phones that were launched with 2.1, I would include those two. Oh, is that it?

SPEAKER_470: Okay, so it's not the updates. It's, okay, got it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: So, and actually, I think they were saying that, like, now there's only three fragmentations. There's, like, 1.5, 1.6, 2.1.

SPEAKER_94: Like, 2.0.1 was, like, they talk about 2.0.1, but that was just the interim update for the droid before it went to 2.1. Yeah. Okay. So.

SPEAKER_51: Google buys UK visual search startup Plink. Apparently, they help improve goggles, Google goggles.

SPEAKER_86: They're expanding this.

SPEAKER_51: Yeah. Huge. Have you seen Plink? I've not seen Plink.

SPEAKER_477: Really cool. What is it?

SPEAKER_32: You take a picture of a piece of, a work of art. Yeah. And it will process it, and it will tell you all about it.

SPEAKER_51: So you could just, like, take it, you could be in the museum, you could be at the Getty. Yeah. You're like, what's this?

SPEAKER_478: That's what I was talking about, like, three weeks ago. This was painted. I'm like, we should have QR codes next to paintings. What's up, QR codes? Plink took my idea.

SPEAKER_479: It doesn't work by QR codes, though, does it? No, it's just you take a picture of a painting, yeah.

SPEAKER_412: It gives you information.

SPEAKER_35: They actually used my phone earlier. They wanted to use goggles, because they were trying to figure out what a picture was on the internet. That's so cool. It actually worked, yeah. I was shocked. I was like, it's not going to work. He comes back. He's like, I'm buying a droid.

SPEAKER_48: It'll work. Wow. That's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03: That's cool. Yeah. But they talk about, in that story, they take about, they say, you know, what's going to happen with it, and they do a comparison to Google Voice, because they bought Grand

SPEAKER_10: Central, and now Google Voice is huge. So, I mean, this has a lot of potential, I think.

SPEAKER_51: Yeah, I think you're right. Okay, so next story, your next Android device may be powered by Intel. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Intel is on.

SPEAKER_490: Yeah, interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_51: So, I guess the love affair with Windows is over, or with Microsoft, or at least what has been for a while, but nonetheless. Yeah. So, Intel basically sees that the world is going Android, at least in some fashion, and it looks like they want to get on the action.

SPEAKER_181: We'll see where that goes. We'll keep tabs on that, the Intel stuff. I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_51: It's interesting they're headed that way. I guess it's just an announcement. Yeah, so they basically just announced that they've ported the Android mobile operating system to its smartphones on the Atom microprocessor, which is an Intel microprocessor. Yep. Okay. Arcos readies Generation 8s of Android tablets.

SPEAKER_499: What's the deal here? It's a whole line of these tablets.

SPEAKER_502: And there's, like, they go from three inches to ten. Yeah. And it's all the same.

SPEAKER_283: How about just release one, dudes?

SPEAKER_10: Yeah. Dudes, I just want one.

SPEAKER_283: I try to buy one every week. I can't buy one.

SPEAKER_10: There was a knockoff one in Asia. It looked like an iPad, but it was running like some weird, like, pirated, I can't say pirated version of Android, but it was like this weird, modified version of Android. Yeah. It was really strange. But I saw that, and I just laughed.

SPEAKER_506: Yeah, just please, release one. Just don't buy one. Anything. Promise. He'll buy one. He's ready to shoot me with my iPad.

SPEAKER_52: I totally messed up on this next story, the HTC device thing. I have the link, but I didn't put the story in there.

SPEAKER_37: Uh-oh. That's my story from last time.

SPEAKER_509: Yeah, I was like, what? That's right. So, shall we move along to the next one? Yeah, let's move on to the next one. Just fake it.

SPEAKER_10: In a nutshell, you can go onto Facebook, and HTC wants you to help name their new device. Right. It's just a voting thing. They give you, like, four names.

SPEAKER_511: Oh. Oh, that's not. That's not vote. That's not so you get to vote. You don't get to name it.

SPEAKER_512: It's a vote on the next name.

SPEAKER_511: Oh, that's lame.

SPEAKER_513: I want to name it.

SPEAKER_512: Maybe next time they'll do a poll.

SPEAKER_513: We have some good ideas for their names.

SPEAKER_512: Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_513: And then send it to Stephen Colbert.

SPEAKER_514: Totally.

SPEAKER_513: The HTC Colbert. I would so buy that.

SPEAKER_517: You know that would win. If Colbert got up on the list. It would totally win.

SPEAKER_03: Stephen Colbert is my hero. He got that bridge named after him, like treadmill and a space station.

SPEAKER_518: That's so great. You want a Colbert. Exactly. The HTC Colbert.

SPEAKER_03: He would absolutely be good.

SPEAKER_214: All right. So, I guess the last story, then we'll move along. Or do you want to talk about the...

SPEAKER_184: Do you want to talk about the Bill Gurley stuff?

SPEAKER_522: Yeah. You know what? Yeah. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_184: Let's talk about this. So, there's an article that I ran across today. Sort of last minute. So, we don't have a chyron for it or anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_209: But Bill Gurley tweeted this. So, Bill Gurley is a famous venture capitalist, well-known for being brilliant.

SPEAKER_526: I wish I was well-known for being brilliant. We're working on that.

SPEAKER_209: So, but Bill Gurley tweeted out, when he tweets something, pretty much that means it's got heat. And it's hit the buzz meters now. It's officially over the line. It's lighten up. Yeah. So, there's this article about, it says, Android is evil. Or is it. Or is it, yeah. And I haven't had a chance to read this whole thing because it happened so fast right before we came in here. Yeah. But I think you did, right?

SPEAKER_32: I got most of it. I was able to scan through it. But it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_113: They talk about how, basically, how Android might be the most closed system in the history of open source.

SPEAKER_54: Right. So, it almost sounded like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about Android.

SPEAKER_37: But they make some good points. Like, they, I mean, it's not, I mean, I'm not going to be like, oh, yeah, I agree. Because I disagree to a large extent.

SPEAKER_10: But there's some things that they, you know, that they talk about. Like, basically, that the Android success has nothing to do with open source.

SPEAKER_534: That it's really owed to Apple, in part.

SPEAKER_536: As a reaction. We've made this point in the show. People get mad at us for bringing it up.

SPEAKER_534: Network operators and carriers and Qualcomm. So, for the chipsets.

SPEAKER_209: They would have never united all the disparate factions without Apple.

SPEAKER_10: Basically, cheaper alternative to the iPhone. Like, Android, because it's open source, because they're not, they're not, Google did not take their code and say, only one phone, only one carrier.

SPEAKER_18: But that doesn't mean that Android is evil. Yeah. I don't see. But they do make some points later on where they say, like, Android, like, Google owns

SPEAKER_209: the Android trademark. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_542: So, there's some ways in which. But that's true for anything in open source. Right. That's true as well. So, I guess that's kind of a non-issue as well. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_10: I mean. They make this paraphrase from Henry Ford's book on the Model T, where they say, anyone can have an Android in their own color as long as it's black.

SPEAKER_550: Because, okay, so the question is, why is Bill Gurley.

SPEAKER_554: It's hard to open source hardware. Yeah. Like, it just, it doesn't happen, so. But why is Bill Gurley tweeting this?

SPEAKER_87: Well, it depends on what you want it to do. I mean, that's part, part of that is the problem with, with trying to build, like, an actual phone. I was going to type that. Let's say that you just wanted to build a tablet, kind of like the, like the first version of the iPad. It just had Wi-Fi. And you want to build it on Android. Is there anything that would stop you from doing that? You don't want, you don't need to call it Android in the name. You don't, it doesn't need to talk to a particular cell carrier. If it's just, if it's just a, I mean, so, as far as I'm concerned, the system is open because you can do that. And I think people, people have built devices using Android. In fact, some of the.

SPEAKER_561: And there's plenty of mods out there.

SPEAKER_87: Yeah.

SPEAKER_534: Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: Well, it's like that tablet I was talking about. They just, they took Android and totally modified the code and then stuck it into a device that looks suspiciously like an iPad and now they're selling that in Asia, like, for really cheap. I think it was like 130 bucks.

SPEAKER_563: Like, nothing. You know, and they're just, that's, but you can do that. You just don't have to say, this is an Android device.

SPEAKER_87: Well, the point is that someone could do something similar in the U.S. and it could be perfectly legal. I mean, I think the point is, like, not building knockoffs, but you could create a really interesting product. You could power the whole thing with Android. So, the Android operating system is open, but it's true that not everything in any particular phone is necessarily open. They're both true.

SPEAKER_63: So, here's some of the points that the author of this article, whose name is Andreas Constantinou. I hope I pronounced that somewhat correctly. Apologies. There'll be a leg on the site.

SPEAKER_231: So, anyway. So, basically, one of the things he says is that the Android roadmap is private. The visibility offered into Android's roadmap is pathetic.

SPEAKER_184: So, basically, he's saying that the roadmap should be open. Everyone should be able to debate it and see it. People who make Android devices must sign an anti-fragmentation agreement, which I think is good. I'm always screaming about fragmentation.

SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I don't think that that just seems like a bad idea to not have something like that.

SPEAKER_87: But what do you mean by a must? They must if they want to get certain things in return, not if they want to build a device. They can go on their own, or if they want to be part of the community, if they want to be Google-branded, they have to agree to a lot more things than that. But they don't have to do any of those things.

SPEAKER_572: Yeah, I guess none of this is really evil to me.

SPEAKER_51: Nothing. I mean, this is a closed review process. The code reviewers all work for Google. So, Google is the only authority which can accept or reject a code submission from the community.

SPEAKER_580: You know, again, you have to control the fragmentation.

SPEAKER_184: Yeah, you have to control the fragmentation somehow anyway. So, none of this really, I don't know, I'm not sure why you...

SPEAKER_582: I mean, I get why they're basically saying that it's the most closed open OS. Like, but to some point... Yeah, but they didn't do that.

SPEAKER_583: They would just be unusable. It would be chaos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: Yeah, it would be anarchy. And that, you cannot have that in the sense of, especially a device, like if you're using it to develop, like you said, like a device that you're kind of using, you're making it and it's powered by Android, that's fine. But when you're doing something that has updates, over-the-air updates that need to be fairly uniform, you know, and especially with different carriers and different handsets, you have to have some kind of structure.

SPEAKER_153: And if that makes it the most closed OS, open source OS, then fine.

SPEAKER_96: Here's, I think, what the real test is, though.

SPEAKER_87: The real test is, if Google turned evil tomorrow and I quit, but a bunch of current Android players, or not current players, but a bunch of people who had access to the resources and the hardware and everything, wanted to fork the system and keep building Android phones, but redo the parts that were not open, could they do that? Yeah, they could. Yeah, they could. They could. They'd have to fill in a few gaps because they're not part of the Android system, the things you need to make a phone work on various networks and for certain hardware pieces. But yeah. Yeah, okay. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_588: I think that's, I mean...

SPEAKER_87: Google's trying to prevent that from happening, but at the same time, I mean, I think that's the whole key with open source. It's possible for someone to fork. And you want to discourage people from ever doing that.

SPEAKER_591: That's an interesting comment.

SPEAKER_55: They have to control the platform as it is currently growing so fast. And that when the core system's complete, I think that it'll open up more.

SPEAKER_591: Like, mic full.

SPEAKER_35: I think that's true. And once it's easier to, you know, make your own distribution or whatever, when we can eventually get to that point, then people will do it.

SPEAKER_237: But until then, there's so much knowledge required to be able to do that successfully that it's not worth it for developers to try. Yeah.

SPEAKER_101: And I think, like we talked about last week, how they were saying, like, finally, Android

SPEAKER_55: developed, the fragmentation was going to start slowing down in terms of all their updates and everything. And I think as we start seeing it stabilize, it'll get better.

SPEAKER_456: Google's realized it's a problem.

SPEAKER_10: It's definitely the wild, wild west right now in terms of, well, it's sort of getting better.

SPEAKER_17: All right, Dominic, let's talk about RingDroid. Let's go to App of the Week.

SPEAKER_113: So RingDroid is our App of the Week this week.

SPEAKER_10: And Dominic has been kind enough to not only come on the show this week and talk about Android in general with us, but to also show off what RingDroid does. And basically, for those of you who are uninitiated, it will record and edit sounds and also create ringtones for your phone directly in the handset, which is just super sweet. Like, that's so cool. And I can't think of anywhere else where you can do that.

SPEAKER_600: Like, you usually have to go online and you edit everything and then you send it to your phone.

SPEAKER_47: Or pay 99 cents or more and download it right on the phone. All right, let's start with a quick demo then for people who haven't seen it. It's on the market and it is free. So you can just stop the podcast right now and go download it if you want. And so I'm just... Go to the Android can. All right. Make sure you're in the can there.

SPEAKER_605: Yeah, and you can see you've got a little bit... Okay.

SPEAKER_47: I'll move it down there. Hopefully everyone can see that. So here's the main RingDroid screen. It starts off just by showing you all of your music. And... Oh, it just comes with all this when I first download it? Yeah, wouldn't that be great? No, this shows whatever music is already on your phone.

SPEAKER_87: So if you have a stock phone, maybe you'll see a few ringtones that came with the phone. Some phones with different carriers are loaded with a little bit of the sample music. You might have nothing. So what you should do is just plug your phone in via your USB cable and just copy everything. And there are a couple of programs that are good for that. Help me out. I'm trying to think of the name of the DVD Johns program.

SPEAKER_607: I'll think of it in a second.

SPEAKER_87: But anyway, you can seriously just copy all of your MP3s and AAC files just directly onto your phone. And then they'll all show up here. They'll show up in the music player. And almost everything is... Almost all music formats are supported here.

SPEAKER_609: And you can just pick a song that you want to make a ringtone out of. So let's pick Carlos Santana's Smooth here and pop this up into RingDroid. And I might rotate it here for a little better experience here.

SPEAKER_87: And so then this brings up a little waveform editor. And really all we're going to do is just clip the song. We just want to pick the start and end point to make a good ringtone out of this.

SPEAKER_609: So we could just pick right from the start here. So that could definitely be a good ringtone. Or I'm just going to show you how you might skip through the song and try to find an interesting part. So you can just grab the little slider here and pick the part of the song you want. And I know that the part I'm thinking of is a little bit farther along.

SPEAKER_315: So I'm going to move there and then hit play.

SPEAKER_439: Okay, that's kind of the part I thought would be a good ringtone.

SPEAKER_609: So I'm going to move over there and then zoom in a little bit. Now if you're not used to looking at audio waveforms, this might be a little bit unfamiliar.

SPEAKER_47: But as you zoom in, you can start to see. Basically generally tracks where the beat, you know, you see the spikes where the beat is. Yeah, you can see the beat. You can see when it's a little louder, softer.

SPEAKER_609: So I'm going to try to find sort of the beginning of that phrase. I'm a little closer now. Let's see how close I am. Zoom in anymore. Oh, nice. That's pretty good. I'm going to back up and get this downbeat here. Let's see how that sounds. That sounds good. Okay, that's a good start. Now let's see how long I want this to go.

SPEAKER_439: Extend this.

SPEAKER_625: You got that, because it's so smooth. Exactly, that's the best part.

SPEAKER_609: And then I'll show you a little trick here. There's a little help screen that will tell you some of these things. But instead of hitting play, I can just tap in the middle. And it'll start playing from right there. Okay, now I don't want to get quite all of that, so I want to go right to about there. Let's see that. That's pretty good. Let's just make that the ringtone. So I'm going to hit the save button here. And you can choose then to save this.

SPEAKER_96: You can make it a ringtone, alarm, or a notification, or just save it as a new music clip.

SPEAKER_633: What is the difference between those?

SPEAKER_609: The difference is where it's going to show up on the phone. If you mark it as an alarm, then when you go to any of the alarm programs, and you're going to pick an alarm, it'll show up in that list.

SPEAKER_48: Is that just where it stores it on the phone, or is it actually a file type?

SPEAKER_609: It's like a metadata tag.

SPEAKER_87: Okay. But there's also sort of an unofficial standard for where to stick it on the SD card that RingDroid also uses. So you can drop things into an alarms directory, and then that'll automatically be tagged that way. That's so cool. So once you've done one or two from RingDroid, then you can open up your SD card on your computer, and you'll see the directory structure. So if you have a whole bunch of MP3s that are already set up as ringtones, now you know where to put them.

SPEAKER_609: But anyway, let's go ahead and pick ringtone there and hit save. And then it gives us some other options here. So we can make this our default ringtone, or we can assign it to a contact. And so assigning to a contact is pretty cool here. And it's actually going to pick some... Steve Jobs.

SPEAKER_639: What?

SPEAKER_47: Steve Jobs on your Android device.

SPEAKER_640: Let's call Barack Obama.

SPEAKER_47: I can't believe that's on there. I put some fake contacts on here just to protect the innocent.

SPEAKER_609: Except for me.

SPEAKER_644: I'm not fake.

SPEAKER_87: So let's make this your new ringtone. I am smooth.

SPEAKER_644: That is true.

SPEAKER_87: And so it's just as easy as that. And then the program exits, and that's set as the ringtone.

SPEAKER_609: And if you go back into RingDroid, then if you scroll down here, you'll see that now next to smooth, there's that new ringtone that we just saved. And so you can actually open it again if you wanted to edit that one further. Or you go back to the original clip if you wanted to assign that to someone else. Now, of course, you can already assign ringtones to a contact or make your default ringtone using the settings. So you can just go into contacts. In fact, if you don't know, I'll show you in a second here because it's a little harder to find, I think. But RingDroid will let you just delete a ringtone. So if we decided that the edit didn't come out just right, I can just long press on this ringtone and just delete it. It will confirm that. And, yeah, and so that's the basic idea. So once you've created one, if you wanted to assign it to more people, I can go here to a particular contact. Oh, you've got a little light blur there. Oh, you've got a little light blur there.

SPEAKER_87: Oh, thanks. Go to a particular contact like that. And then you have to actually hit options.

SPEAKER_609: So from options, you can go to the ringtone list, and this is where you choose ringtones for individual contacts. And so anything that you save with RingDroid is just going to show up in that list.

SPEAKER_647: Very, very cool.

SPEAKER_10: And so why is RingDroid possible on Android? Is it possible to build RingDroid on another platform?

SPEAKER_47: It's a good question.

SPEAKER_87: And so one of the things that I was excited about when I first got the Android SDK was sort of seeing what's possible with Android that isn't possible with other platforms. As a developer, I mean, this is kind of fun, but, you know, I work at Google. I have a main job, a main task. This is just something I wanted to do on the side for fun to see sort of what's interesting and what's possible. And, you know, I had done some stuff with audio before, but really you could do a lot of this on other phone platforms. You could do the waveform editing and the sound and all of that. But there isn't another mobile platform that actually has the APIs to set something as a ringtone and to assign it to a contact and just to access your whole music library and all of the metadata. In other words, Apple, what would you do? And sort of integrate the whole thing. Right now there isn't a way on, there's no IPI on the iPhone that will let you create a ringtone and save it directly on the device. Because they want to keep everything locked up. You can do it with iTunes.

SPEAKER_47: So, you know, there's plenty of other ways to create free ringtones. But not on the fly.

SPEAKER_653: Right, on the fly on the device.

SPEAKER_47: That does make a big difference.

SPEAKER_653: Can you record your own ringtones?

SPEAKER_47: Yes, so there is a record button. You can also use any of the other sound recorder applications out there.

SPEAKER_87: There are a few that have some nice features. But right within RingDroid there's a little link. You can just record something there and then trim it. Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_55: Very nice. Do you have any questions? I always feel like I monopolize our apps at the week. I always questions.

SPEAKER_272: Yeah, no, I actually played around with it beforehand. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_10: Are there other applications that, like, use RingDroid within it or that have?

SPEAKER_47: Yeah, so I'm just aware of a couple.

SPEAKER_87: Like, there's a soundboard application that lets you create just a fun soundboard. Just press different parts of the screen and have it play sound. And one of the things that they did to help people get sounds is they let you just tap on the screen and have it open RingDroid directly as a way to edit it. And that's another thing I think that's really cool about the platform is that on Android, instead of sort of every app being separate, like, every part of the operating system is pluggable. Like, you can replace the home app. You can replace the phone. You can replace just about every aspect of the system. But similarly, that means that if any application that the term for developers is raises an intent to do something, like to edit a sound, RingDroid can respond and say, yeah, I can edit the sound and then return that sound to that application. And so presumably other people could, you know, write similar applications. Or if anyone has an application that needs someone to pick a sound, it's the same way as right now when you're in an app. You might see there's a lot more examples of this where you're in something where you need to pick a picture. And if you've installed more than one camera app or more than one gallery app or something like that,

SPEAKER_609: you might see a choice of several. Right.

SPEAKER_662: Very cool.

SPEAKER_609: I actually have a question.

SPEAKER_662: Go ahead.

SPEAKER_424: How many downloads have you had of this? It's over a million. And how long is it out?

SPEAKER_609: It's a while, well over a year.

SPEAKER_219: And I've continued to add features. And do you have much in the way of competition? Or are you pretty much big man on Android?

SPEAKER_660: I was going to say, you're just basically like, I'm on the ship.

SPEAKER_87: So there are a couple of apps, actually. So RingDroid is released as open source. I'm not making any money off this. And because I'm a Google employee, that's pretty much the route that they want people to go. This is just sort of a fun project I'm doing at Google and on the side. And so a couple of people have taken RingDroid code and integrated it into other sort of ringtone-like applications. But for the most part, I don't think there's anything else really similar. I think it's good enough that no one's tried to compete with it. I'm doing it on the side, so I'm not really moving as quickly as I'd like if I could work on this full time. But I'm still hacking it on the side. So I added a feature where you can opt in to send anonymous information about the songs that you're creating. And so I've started collecting that data, and once I've gotten to finishing that code and open sourcing that so everyone can see I'm not doing evil with it, I'm going to put up a website where people can see sort of what people are doing with RingDroid. Very cool. And so far it's collected, just out of the ones that have been collected, almost 3 million ringtones have been created. Wow. So that probably means there are more from people who didn't opt in. A lot more opt-out, right. That's pretty cool. And just think that's at least 3 million dollars that was not spent on buying commercial ringtones,

SPEAKER_415: which I think is great because, I mean, I'm glad people made a little money at it, but it's really ridiculous that people are paying for ringtones if they already own the songs.

SPEAKER_97: When you can buy an app for a dollar, or you can buy 30 seconds of music for a dollar, like that doesn't compute with me. I'm like, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_315: Well, also, I mean, you can go onto the Amazon MP3 store, which I think is awesome on Android,

SPEAKER_87: just to be able to buy songs right on the phone. But if you've already paid for the song, you know, why should you have to pay again for the ringtone?

SPEAKER_296: You pay a dollar for the song, and then you pay another dollar for a 30-second clip.

SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that makes no sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And fair use. We're all about the First Amendment and the Fair Use Act.

SPEAKER_636: I encourage you to buy your music first, but then copy it onto all your devices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: So, out of curiosity, is there anything in development that you want to talk about in terms of, like, cool features that you'd like to see RingDroid have or that you want to develop for it? Is there anything, when we start seeing 4G come out, is there anything that you, like, are you maybe considering doing something along the lines of, like, a movie editing or, like, a streaming, like, somebody could pick their favorite clip out of This Week in Android and show it to their friends?

SPEAKER_87: That would be cool. So, to get really technical, what RingDroid actually does in order to display the waveform and to be able to edit the sound, it has to kind of really dig into the file formats, and there actually aren't APIs to do all of that. So, I wrote my own code just to read the MP3 and AAC file formats in order to do that. It's, I mean, this is something I've done before, so I have the experience with Audacity. I wasn't starting from scratch there, but I wrote new code just for RingDroid just to do that. And with sound file formats, it's not that daunting once you sort of get past how the file formats work, and it's really just trimming the files. And luckily, most audio file formats are not that hard to just trim out a piece and turn that into another valid audio file. With video, that would be a lot harder, not impossible, but it would be quite a bit more challenging, and I don't have the experience with video. So, I tell you, I will not be the one doing it with video.

SPEAKER_682: But it could happen? It could happen.

SPEAKER_87: I don't see any reason why that couldn't happen. I think that would be a really cool app, and I'd love to talk to any developers who are interested in doing something like that. But the one thing that I can see RingDroid happen, I already told you about sort of collecting some statistics and getting some interesting buzz about what people are doing with it. The other thing I want to do is just improve the workflow. The workflow right now, I think it works really well for creating a single ringtone, but if you want to assign ringtones to your 20 closest friends, if you want to mix them up every week, if you want to change a whole bunch or things like that, there's really no workflow for that, and I think that's sort of the next area where it could go. It should be a good app if you want to manage a bunch of ringtones and do fun things with them.

SPEAKER_55: Like if I want to make Dead End Friends by them Crooked Vultures

SPEAKER_10: my ringtone for my closest group of friends, then that's what I would go with. That's really cool. I like that. I would have never thought of that as an option to have. I would never ask for that. I wouldn't be like, you know what I want to do? I want to set 20 of my friends to have the same ringtone. I would never think of that, but now that you mention it, that's actually a really good idea, and I would use that functionality.

SPEAKER_113: There you go. Is there anything you want to talk about? Anything else about RingDroid?

SPEAKER_680: No, thank you. You covered it. That's great. All right, all right. I'm very happy to be here and show it off. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_113: Yeah, I'm really, God, if you ever want to come back and just talk about Android with us, you are so welcome, and we love having you here. So thank you for being on the show with us. Great, thanks.

SPEAKER_17: Okay, last thing I want to talk about, we're at the end, put up my screen.

SPEAKER_113: I need those. These are toys. What are those? They're little Androids in blind boxes. Have you ever seen blind boxes at comic stores?

SPEAKER_10: So you go in, and there's this little setup like that, and you pick out a box, and you don't know what you're getting in it. You could get any one of these little Android toys.

SPEAKER_687: Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_17: And I saw these, and I need them. So if anyone knows where to buy them in the Los Angeles area, the L.A. metropolitan area, please let me know and or buy them for me and send them COD to Mahalo, and I will pay for them, because I love them, and I think we need some on the desk.

SPEAKER_691: I agree.

SPEAKER_17: Like, we need to have some Android toys.

SPEAKER_691: Cloud competencies get some toys. We need some toys on the stretch.

SPEAKER_10: On the desk. Like, it needs to happen. So I saw those, and I thought they were literally the most adorable things I've ever seen in my life. And I, besides my dogs. And so I need them. Like, I have to have them around. So that's the end of that. But, all right. It's time to close out the show. We're done.

SPEAKER_113: Again, Dominic Mazzoni, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. We all do. We really, really loved having you on. The Korean droid commercial. And, oh, God, that's right. The Korean droid commercials. No, I don't think we have time. We'll do it next week. Do it next week. It doesn't, we don't have to show it this week.

SPEAKER_694: Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_113: But, yeah, we've got, like, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. And, again, you're more than welcome any time. You can find RingDroid on the Android Marketplace, or you can go to RingDroid.com, and it will take you to the code site. So, and then, as always, Mark and Jeff.

SPEAKER_698: Always happy to be here.

SPEAKER_113: Thank you so much. And you can find Mark and Jeff on Twitter at Mark Jeffery and at Jeff Emmons. And, as always, you can find me on Twitter at Android Ashley. Thank you to all of our viewers out there on Ustream, Justin TV, on our website, on every kind of. We're expanding. Yeah, we are expanding. Every week we're adding someone new. Every week, more people. So, thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_700: And thisweekend.com as well.

SPEAKER_113: And thisweekend.com. And you can also see our other This Weekend shows on thisweekend.com.

SPEAKER_701: Do we have other shows?

SPEAKER_113: We do.

SPEAKER_37: We do have other shows. We have This Weekend iPad, which is our new show with you and Jason Kalkanis, showing off your fancy iPads.

SPEAKER_702: Jeff, you don't want to be part of that one? I don't want me on that show.

SPEAKER_704: Jeff is the devil's advocate on This Weekend.

SPEAKER_703: We should have one on the show.

SPEAKER_710: The voice of dissent.

SPEAKER_707: I'll just stand there and look stern. Yeah, Jeff just stands in the corner and goes.

SPEAKER_710: Nope.

SPEAKER_113: But yeah, we have This Weekend iPad, which is new this week. And we also have This Weekend Cloud Computing with Amanda Kulong, which is super awesome. Cloud computing becoming a huge part of your user experience.

SPEAKER_17: And we also have This Weekend Venture Capital, which a lot of people really like that.

SPEAKER_712: A lot of people want to not raise money.

SPEAKER_17: Yeah, hey, if you're interested in raising money, that is the show to watch. If you're interested in startups, watch This Weekend Startups.

SPEAKER_113: If you're interested in Twitter, we have This Weekend Twitter. We have This Weekend YouTube. We have This Weekend.

SPEAKER_714: Don't forget about Kevin Pollack.

SPEAKER_113: I know. And we have the streamy award-winning Kevin Pollack's chat show. Kevin Pollack's chat show on Sundays. And he's had some just incredible guests. We had the Fonz on.

SPEAKER_17: The Fonz was on the show. So please, go to thisweekend.com. Check it out. Because we've got a lot of really cool shows with some really good conversations about everything. But other than that, we're done.

SPEAKER_113: We will not keep you hostage anymore. And I'm Ashley Eskeva, Mark Jeffrey, Jeff Ammons, Dominic Mazzoni. Thank you so much for coming in studio. And this has been This Weekend Android. And we'll see you next week. We'll see you next week.