SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody, it is Thursday. That means this week in streaming with lawn.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, and that is not all. We also have a great interview with Ben Ha of Orange DAO, which we talked about on our crypto roundtable, and we had more questions, and Ben was happy to oblige.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this is really interesting. You know, I have told everybody multiple times that DAOs are the most fascinating of Web3 concepts, ideas that I like. NFTs comes after that. And, you know,

SPEAKER_02: I think Ben is trying to he emailed me right after this interview with his people. They're trying to

SPEAKER_06: get Jake out to do a DAO. So I think there's a lot of interesting things he unpacks here. He's very honest about their advantage and why they're doing this. It's a really, really interesting interview. If you're in startups or capital allocation. This could be the future of startup

SPEAKER_09: funding on a global basis. And we must in the United States get ahead of this. So this is an area

SPEAKER_08: where I am demanding the SEC and everybody get their act together to make DAOs legal and regulated in the United States before we lose this to Switzerland or Singapore. Very important.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really good conversation. And hopefully you will come up because you have to understand it. Even if you are skeptical right now, even if it's early, you need to understand this because the people who understand it make all the money in the early days. So pay attention. And then yes, we're gonna have a blast with Lon Harris to talk about Thursday Night Football, House of the

SPEAKER_12: Dragons, insane numbers. We got a whole plan for Disney in there.

SPEAKER_02: And which city should Disney and the challenge Chapek. He's challenged right now. Challenge Chapek. Which city should he put a third Disney in? Let's get those Disney prices under $100. BS that families

SPEAKER_18: have to pay three grand to go to Disney. This is absurd. It's gonna be a great show. Stick with us.

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SPEAKER_23: Okay. Thursday. We almost made it to the end of the week. We're getting our Molly.

SPEAKER_25: Last week, on the crypto roundtable, we've been talking about DAOs. These are decentralized, autonomous organizations, but crypto thing. Nobody really can define what these are. Outside of saying it's a discord, there's some voting mechanism, bunch of people give their crypto, crypto, they, they then share in some prizes, I guess, or some equity. But I've been fascinated

SPEAKER_01: by DAOs. I think you have to. Yeah, absolutely. Sure. I like I just like the way you said that you get prizes. It made me think of Chuck E. Cheese. Sort of. I mean, depending on your voting stake,

SPEAKER_29: you could either get some Smarties or a giant Pokemon stuffy. It's kind of like,

SPEAKER_32: you know, it's kind of like a reward. So sometimes like seems like there's NFT communities for this,

SPEAKER_25: etc. It's a way for crypto people to geek out. Um, and then there's venture funds, right? Which, which we do. We're in the process of raising launch fund for I did our first pitch last week for launch

SPEAKER_35: fund for man. Did that go? Well, yeah, hundreds people showed up. And yeah, a lot of people may

SPEAKER_01: request them. And we're doing a version of decentralized, both fundraising and investing because of the raising in public and the syndicate model. Sure. So maybe a short leap to a doubt.

SPEAKER_25: I think a Dow takes a lot of inspiration from the concept of a syndicate at SPV, people have to organize together as a group to invest in in the company. So we saw this orange Dow come up, we've been talking, we've talked about it twice on the program so far, had a lot of questions. So

SPEAKER_42: we were like, well, let, we know the guy who's starting this. We want to just get him on the program and have him explain it himself.

SPEAKER_44: And he said, yes. So we're very excited, actually. Spoiler alert. Uh, we got Ben Ha,

SPEAKER_01: who I believe is currently the various CEO and founder of origami. Uh, the creator of I can has cheeseburger. I wonder at which point you want to just like live that down and not have us bring it

SPEAKER_47: up all the time. I mean, it's awesome. Well, yeah, well, that's, that's actually, I like that. So

SPEAKER_50: technically the Godfather company behind I can has cheeseburger, Eric Nakagawa was one of the co founders. Um, who's also in crypto, by the way. So there's a theme here. Um, a bunch of two media

SPEAKER_51: guys, uh, transitioning over to crypto, reliving our youth.

SPEAKER_01: So in you, you joined Y Combinator in 2016, came out of Y Combinator and founded social construct to invent new processes and technologies to assemble high quality apartment buildings, faster and cheaper. Uh, and then in 2021 helped start and raise this orange fund, which is the venture investing partner of orange Dow. So yeah, we talked about orange Dow. You were, you got on the tweeters and we're like, I think I can do a better job explaining this. And we said, yes, please.

SPEAKER_55: All right. So looking from the outside. What did we get wrong?

SPEAKER_59: Well, yeah, I mean, let's just start with, let's just start there. Like, so we understand raising a fund to specifically target Y Combinator companies. It's a great pool of companies. You're an alumni. And let's face it, many people have done this. There was a funders club or something that was a bunch of

SPEAKER_61: YC grads. A bunch of people have had this concept of doing funds syndicates to go out, you know,

SPEAKER_59: whether they were Uber alumni, YC alumni, Techstars alumni, etc, you get some advantage, you understand the programs, you know, maybe you can front run the market or just in some way leverage

SPEAKER_65: your knowledge of it. Great. Explain what you're doing here. Like why add a Dow to this tried and true fund strategy.

SPEAKER_66: So, um, the, the origin of orange fund came from a crypto WhatsApp group, um, that a group of us

SPEAKER_50: were running. So it's NFTs and regular crypto and things like that. And in order to create an organization where we can all have some say in control over its outcome, we said, Hey, let's create a doubt. Let's create a more democratic institution. It's not purely democratic. It is token tokenized voting and things like that. Uh, that organization will help a venture

SPEAKER_69: fund generate better returns. And then we'll have a venture fund that gives all of its carry to the Dow. Right. And so the GPs, there's a management fee, we take the management fee to run the, the fund and the organization, but all of the upside gets basically tokenized in the form of a now. And now we can tell the Dow, Hey, if you want to participate here are the different teams and different activities you can do, you can earn tokens by doing it. And so please help us with two

SPEAKER_50: things. One, well, I guess three, one deal flow, help us generate deals to provide some expertise,

SPEAKER_69: screening these companies and giving us some, some notes. And then three support our companies as a network, um, when they need help. And so that was really the fundamental genesis of all of this.

SPEAKER_50: There's nothing really, um, deeply strategic about it. It was, we have a community already. Web three is different. We have to think differently. YC is not doing it. So why don't we create a community that can do that? And this often happens at YC, where they're a little bit later to the game, because they're a much bigger organization now.

SPEAKER_73: Well, and they also have a lot of work to do just running the program, which is a ton of work.

SPEAKER_59: It's incredibly a lot of work.

SPEAKER_06: And they also need to maintain and people can debate this. Obviously, it's a hot button issue. But

SPEAKER_02: they need to maintain at least some appearance that they're not front running the market and that when

SPEAKER_59: you come to demo day, you have an equal shot at the companies as everybody else, we all know,

SPEAKER_61: that's not exactly true. But they do need to have people come to demo day and invest in the companies. Even if the top 20, you know, get taken out before demo day.

SPEAKER_81: So and you're right, the last call, we do have an advantage that we are alumni that we can actually

SPEAKER_69: attend alumni demo day, which occurs before the actual event does. Right, right. So we do have a little bit of incentive efficient. It's just it's not enough to make a deal that time, but we do get a

SPEAKER_02: little bit more. Do you do the companies in the current yc class? Are they put on bookface

SPEAKER_59: immediately when they sign up in week one? Or do they get on bookface on day, you know, week 13,

SPEAKER_50: or whatever the end week is the weekend, they get a choice of launching. So during the batch, there will be launch bookface, which is companies launching on bookface with the community announcing their company and their product, some wait till demo day, some just never do it at all.

SPEAKER_73: Ah, so you you have access to that all of your down members do so you will get access to that's right. These companies in week zero through is it a 12 week program still 10 weeks. So you might

SPEAKER_59: get access to the companies weeks 12345678910. That's a major advantage. Yeah, we certainly keep

SPEAKER_50: our ears to the ground and make sure we understand who's doing what and why. Because we do often see pivots along the way. And those are the ones that we're really interested in as well.

SPEAKER_95: So I have a question about the voting structure and why it's like, why is it necessary to have

SPEAKER_01: this democratic structure where everyone can vote? Like, I feel awkward asking that question. But at the same time, like democracy can bring some chaos, which is why we've abstracted it with representative democracy and government and also in companies with like leadership. Um, so I wonder like, why would be democracy?

SPEAKER_103: Believe me, the irony is not lost.

SPEAKER_73: I mean, it's never been a democratic process in venture investing at its best. It's always been right. Like companies are not numbers.

SPEAKER_107: It's also not a democratic process at all. So the way it's structured is that the fund is

SPEAKER_69: independent. There's this relationship between the carry and the additional work that that provides. But the final decision as to like, who gets investments in rod is left up to three gps myself and two other partners. And so you know, we do have our regular, you know, fisticuffs matches of like, Are you sure you want to invest in this? Huh? Huh? You know, those moments? Yeah, at the debate. So we don't we don't run by consensus.

SPEAKER_59: Okay, but they can go find companies and then present them to you. And then three of you vote. And I'm just curious in your venture fund, what's the structure of somebody feels strongly about it and two people don't go ahead and do it or two out of three, or you're figuring it out.

SPEAKER_116: It's two and three. Okay.

SPEAKER_69: Usually we generally run making sure somebody is passionate about it. Somebody has to stand up and say I really like this company and want to support it.

SPEAKER_95: Okay, so then but going back to the voting structure of the Dow. Yeah, what is that? How is it better? Like, how does it generate better deal flow and better outcomes than say a syndicate?

SPEAKER_66: The Dow governs its own treasury, the limited partners of the fund, they exist inside the

SPEAKER_69: fund, those funds are completely segregated from the Dow. So the Dow cares about what's in our multisig or our treasury and what can we do with it. And so what they're doing is that they're actually funding programs. So we, about a month and a half ago, the Dow, completely independently of the fund, launched a program called Orange Fellows, and it's designed to be 10 weeks, we give you $25,000, virtually no strings attached before you start a company. And we say, spend 10 weeks learning about Web3 in the Dow with us, like make a transition from your entrepreneurial self into the crypto world, because you need a little bit of time to do that. And we funded a class of 10 people. And that came entirely from the Dow. Program manager stepped up, who is a former YC founder, named James Sinka. And now that programs live, that was a completely bottoms up thing. It is

SPEAKER_126: our way of recycling the the money into the Dow so that we can continue to fund more entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_59: And so how do you then distribute, let's say, you've got, I think you said you have 1000 people or

SPEAKER_73: more in the in the Dow. Yeah, yeah, 1000 people in there, let's say 900 of them never do anything, you know, or they're just kind of hanging and giving some comments from the rafters. But they're not actually doing noticeable work. But there's 100 who doing a bunch of work. Okay, you hit your Airbnb,

SPEAKER_59: hit your Uber, whatever, you know, you hit Flexport, and it returns, let's just pick a number $100 million in carry, you got 100 people over there. You're the three GPs, how much of it do you the three GPs get? And then and let's just assume you have 20% carry. And that's why you got this, you know,

SPEAKER_25: you own 10% company, whatever. So we do the math 100 million comes in. How do you pick who gets what?

SPEAKER_66: Yeah, so it depends on the number of tokens you hold. Now, to be honest, at this point in the legal

SPEAKER_69: evolution of downs, there is no way to get a distribution from those funds. So even if the Treasury of the Dow received $100 million, because we did blowout numbers on the fund, that money cannot be directly given to members like a dividend, right? So that mechanism doesn't exist. But what it does do is your tokens govern how we spend that money for the next cycle, or for the next round of companies and things like that. And so the way Orange Dow was developed was that it was designed as an endowment for entrepreneurship. So when you look at venture capital today and see 80% of the capital going back to the LPs, that money is not staying in the entrepreneurial ecosystem, that's going back to the financial ecosystem. We said if we can actually take the carry and start creating a fund for entrepreneurs that fund entrepreneurship and the transition to it, we think that we can have a much better impact because we're cycling 100% of the

SPEAKER_59: money, not just care. Oh, wow. So you're going to recycle everything. So then when is there ever going to be a payout for the people who have the tokens or the tokens will just go up in value value as a proxy to

SPEAKER_69: this money? So right now, the assumption is the tokens will represent the control over the asset, not the distribution of the asset, until the laws change, and we can find a legal way to do it. That's the that's the mechanism that we're using. And so now that you can actually direct these funds, you know, you can either create a program for you to run, you can actually have the Dow invent or invest in a public goods program, something like that. And so there's a lot of working capital that we want to forward into this program, we don't necessarily want to take dividends out now. Besides, at any early stage, you know, technology venture, why would you take out money anyway, you would also always want to recycle that into the growth part of the business. Interesting. It sounds like you're

SPEAKER_142: saying there, there may never be right is this ultimately not a profit making enterprise, it is a profit making enterprise is a profit making enterprise, it's just not totally clear how you can get

SPEAKER_69: the profits. Not yet. There are mechanisms. There are legal structures in the United States allow you to do

SPEAKER_145: that we're kind of waiting for them to actually kind of shake out to make sure that we can actually use

SPEAKER_147: them the right way. On the program today is Darina Koulya. She is the founder of OpenPhone. Welcome

SPEAKER_148: to the show, Darina. Thank you so much, Jason. Great to be here. You know, I've read the ads a

SPEAKER_149: couple times here. It seems like you're charging too little for this product. It's 10 bucks a month per number. How are you able to do this so affordably 120 bucks a year 150 bucks a year per person is

SPEAKER_152: nothing. So we're a very self serve product, which is why many of our competitors offer much more expensive tiers is that they rely on like a customer success rep or someone help you out to set things up. We are very self serve. Now we do have customers success managers who are amazing. A lot of our

SPEAKER_154: customers are founders and startups. They like things to just work without instructions without

SPEAKER_156: they'll read the manual, they'll watch the videos, they don't want to talk to a human, they just want

SPEAKER_149: to set it up and go and you made the product so simple. Absolutely. That's where the cost savings comes and you don't have to have a sales team going out there selling it. And you know,

SPEAKER_152: the other big thing is that the way we also grow and I think it you know, the way we get a lot of customers is that we have very strong word of mouth and people like tell others about us. And I mean, all of that contributes our business model kind of makes it makes sense for us to be able to

SPEAKER_147: to offer it at a very good price. All right, everybody, here's your CTA the old call to action twist listeners 20% off any plan for your first six months, just sign up at open phone.com

SPEAKER_149: slash twist. And if you got an existing number, no problem, they'll put it right over open phone.com slash twist. O p e n p h o n e.com slash twist today for 20% off. Yeah, this makes sense to me

SPEAKER_59: because people right now can do it for the affiliation, the fun, the joy of being part of the ecosystem. They're not putting in that much work. This is not a full time job. They're not getting a salary. But when the law becomes more clear, and if this security if it winds up being a security right now is just tokens. But if they become worth something, then I guess the Dow could say, you know what, we're sitting on 250 million, we would like to distribute 10% a year, and invest 20% a year. So 30% is going to go back into the ecosystem. And so every year, you know, whatever it is $50 million is going to go to our top participants in the Dow, and another 50 million companies. And we think that becomes an evergreen fund, we never have to have help. Exactly. Exactly. I kind of get it. So this first turn of the wheel is to fund it. In fact, yeah, first crank will be to create a nest egg. And that's actually kind of brilliant, Ben, because it will become clear, clearer how to distribute these

SPEAKER_01: shares. Exactly. I have another super basic question. Like you mentioned that the Dow decided to create a program and you know, give $25,000 to these web three entrepreneurs. Where this is, again, I'm just gonna make myself sound stupid on behalf of the audience and myself. Where does that 25,000 come from? Like does the Dow have its own you said they have a treasury? How does the Dow get money compared to how the fund gets money? And is it the same money? Yeah, so there's actually two

SPEAKER_50: pools of capital here. One is a $50 million series seed and a venture fund. That's the orange fund itself. There's an additional $30 million committed over four to five years of the Dow from both Algorand and the year. And they're actually financing the Dow's operations until the carry from the fund

SPEAKER_171: materializes to actually cover some of the expenses. Okay, so in total, that's $80 million that we

SPEAKER_01: have control over. And that is separate in those two parts. Like if you as the as the orange

SPEAKER_91: funds across those parts, no crossing the streams. Yeah, that's right. So the fellows come out of

SPEAKER_50: the near Algorand fund. Right? Because again, we're like pumping, you know, entrepreneurs into their ecosystem. And that's what they love, right? They want us to build on top of their blockchain, because one outside the turn pays for all of this.

SPEAKER_61: Hmm. So explain who those people are, because I have heard about this before. A lot of people in crypto had huge raises. Yeah, they did offerings. And all of a sudden, they were sitting on 100 million or a

SPEAKER_02: billion dollars in some foundation in Panama, or on a, you know, BVI, wherever. And they need to use that money to jumpstart their ecosystem. In other words, to get their platforms working. And so they

SPEAKER_59: love the idea of getting entrepreneurs to build on their platform. So like Intel, or, you know,

SPEAKER_174: remember Google did Google glass fund with injuries and a bunch of other people, they put 100 million, they made that famous photo of the three of them were going Google glass looking ridiculous, cut that in a post, if you will, it's a great photo. But sometimes platforms will create

SPEAKER_59: a venture fund in order to so this Algorand and my algorithm algorithm. Yeah, that's a blockchain

SPEAKER_179: for the layer one. That's right. Yeah. So they have money sitting there, they gave it to you. So you

SPEAKER_169: can jumpstart the ecosystem. That's right. Well, we're one of the many partners that they're working

SPEAKER_52: with a jumpstart ecosystem. So a lot of them have like grant programs. So like if you use the technology, and if you want to apply for like a 10k grant, you can totally do that directly. But obviously,

SPEAKER_50: that has overhead. And also, there's a selection problem here, which is you want to fund entrepreneurs who are likely to build something. And so a alumni group of YC, like us makes a lot of sense there, right, because proven history of actually building something and, you know, likelihood of actually

SPEAKER_171: raising capital, good support structure, all of the above.

SPEAKER_59: If you could wave a magic wand and make the legal system and the Dow system crystal clear how it works. And I guess there are some countries outside the United States that do have basically, I want to say a free for all but incredibly permissive or anything goes like experiment as you will. What country has that like most experimental and did you consider just saying, Hey, screw it, we're going to be in Singapore or this or was it the Zerg or something? Did you consider

SPEAKER_50: those? Yeah, so there are many, many jurisdictions right now, there is, there is a bit of a competition out there for like the jurisdictions that will be more doubt friendly. But a lot of them actually are doing this so that they can attract businesses like like a registration business like Delaware LLCs of the world, right. So like, we're actually talking to Colorado, the state of Colorado to actually use a co op mechanism that is actually exempt from some of the security legislation. So this happening domestically, we're also talking to Marshall Islands, where a lot of the fortune 500 shipping companies are registered. And so there's a nonprofit way of actually building it out. And everybody

SPEAKER_191: should figure out like, what is the right way and the financially appropriate way for these dows to exist? The US is just really slow. Right? It's just by the way, in Switzerland.

SPEAKER_203: And there was like another alien race in a sci fi movie, but I was like, is he talking about one

SPEAKER_00: of those like floating sovereign island things? What does there kind of what that is actually,

SPEAKER_25: Molly is like, an area in Switzerland, where they said cryptos can do whatever but which do you said which jurisdiction in the United States is the most perfect colorado?

SPEAKER_50: I was going to say, well, it's not permissive, but it's interesting, right? Because it can actually solve the entire security stack. Colorado, co-ops, and Marshall Islands based in the Pacific.

SPEAKER_72: Yeah, those are interesting to us. Obviously, there's your Delaware LLCs, and those are fine as well, in most cases.

SPEAKER_95: The nodies are stuck on this question, and I think it's somewhat reasonable to ask,

SPEAKER_01: what happens if there is no legal way to distribute funds?

SPEAKER_54: I mean, I think it seems like, I will stipulate, it seems like a very safe assumption. Someone's going to figure out how you can distribute funds. They exist, there's a type of something.

SPEAKER_210: You have to pay taxes somewhere.

SPEAKER_172: You have to pay taxes somewhere. For no other reason than taxes, I would assume there will be a reason to distribute funds, right?

SPEAKER_01: Is there any conceivable barrier or situation in the future where you'll be like, uh-oh, can't get the money out?

SPEAKER_50: Yeah, so there may be cases where you put money to a foundation, and the foundation says, hey, really, there's no way for us to actually distribute this capital, because this is really more like non-profits. Now, these foundations are not designed to skip on taxes. They're literally just foundations for the holding, like a trust of money. The DAO can actually create a new company that is for-profit outside of that with a new revenue line. So you have to think about the DAO as like this umbrella organization above these entities,

SPEAKER_171: so you can direct its work and say, we're going to put this money into a foundation. We're going to put this money into a different organization. Right?

SPEAKER_191: So you have flexibility at the voter and the DAO member level to actually design the future a little bit differently. You're not like a company that's stuck in one model.

SPEAKER_218: Yeah, that's fascinating, and it really is interesting. This is sort of like the LLC formation, which I believe started in the UK with, you know, the shipping companies, the famous, you know, first organizations in the Nordics and in the UK,

SPEAKER_59: created this great LLC structure. We all use Delaware LLC, but that is limited.

SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of limitations on that in terms of the number of participants, voting, etc. And we kind of need more of like an operating system platform version of this.

SPEAKER_61: So maybe you could unpack if this was like an operating system, what would the key variables,

SPEAKER_02: traits of a DAO operating system, if, you know, somebody from Marshall Islands or Zug or anywhere else were to watch this, Montana, Wisconsin, whoever, a lot of people are trying to get in on Delaware's business, because this would be a money printing machine for Marshall Islands or whoever figures it out. What would the operating system look like? What would you need from it in terms of legality, transactions, finance, etc? And is that what origami does?

SPEAKER_210: Yes. Thank you so much for that segue, both of you.

SPEAKER_50: That's exactly what origami is for. So it was successful. People loved it.

SPEAKER_69: People came to us and said, hey, we would like to do more of this. Can we do the same thing? And we're like, hey, we should probably build a company and build some software on it.

SPEAKER_50: And the first thing we do is we talk about what we call the charter. And the charter is a piece of document that says, hey, this is why we exist. These are the rules of the game. Here's how tokens will be initially distributed. And here are the ways of running and managing this organization. So like here are the different roles in the organization. And how do we actually elect people to those roles? Right. And so you set up the starting conditions in plain English. And then you talk about the mission that you're trying to accomplish, just like any other company. And then it's actually backed up by a process of creating those groups, then electing people to it, figuring out what your business is and how the revenue first comes in. Like that's one of the most important things that happens at that stage.

SPEAKER_69: Right. And imagine this is all being done in software. And so you can say, hey, Jason just got elected to Treasury Committee. We're going to now change this role to Treasury.

SPEAKER_232: Now you have access to a different set of information. Imagine building a company that is natively software first. Not like I have a business and now to get software to actually make the business run.

SPEAKER_171: It's like the software exists entirely in software first so that we can actually think about it the way we normally would. Like technology people would think of a business as remote, a bunch of data you can move around.

SPEAKER_112: That's how jobs are being built today. It is amazing how much offline stuff happens right now in businesses.

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SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, we have a board structure. We have board meetings. We have board minutes. You know, we have financial reporting. All of these things are in some cases, uh, based on tradition and best practices. In some cases, they're strictly legal. And in most cases, they kind of overlap legal concepts, you know, and agreements between individuals that are papered by attorneys or are based on standards.

SPEAKER_61: And I think when we look at when things have gone off the rails, Molly, and, uh, and we can cover this on this weekend service all the time, you will have some individual who says,

SPEAKER_59: yeah, I think I'm going to just try to not do what the tradition, traditional thing is. Uh, and so we did have this with the company top towel, where they just were like, yeah, we're just never going to convert these notes. We're never going to convert our safe. Right. And that was just a perfect example of like, well, that's not how safe work. And he's like, is it because the way I interpret it is this thing doesn't have a conversion date. And here's the video of the, you know, it's actually safe happened to be created by white commoner and here's the video of somebody saying, yeah, um, the general counsel, I think of, of YC saying, yeah, that's an edge case that'll never happen. And I was like, okay, but it happened here and I'm never going to convert. Therefore, I never have to give equity. Therefore, I can sweep all the cash off. So I guess that's the hard work you're going to do with, uh, Oregon.

SPEAKER_69: I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sound like a broken record. Uh, but crypto does make that a lot easier, especially Ethereum, because you can actually see the transactions on chain.

SPEAKER_50: And so things like how much money do we have? Right. It's a very simple question.

SPEAKER_171: When you actually put all of your assets on chain, the thing of like, Hey, Jason, how do you actually elect your board members? Like what's the process, right? You have to like, look up the legal documents, how do I fire this board member?

SPEAKER_50: That stuff is now in software. Like you have, you have a proposal that says, Hey, we want a change of members. Or at the end of the season, we're going to run your elections and the votes get tallied and people are now elected into board roles.

SPEAKER_191: Like it should happen more like that, less, oh my gosh, what page do I look up to figure out how to file this guy?

SPEAKER_02: I think, uh, uh, you know, I've often said this as I, like you, I think we're, we're kind of, of similar generations.

SPEAKER_61: When we came into this space, it was very opaque and I think the opaqueness was designed to obscure, um, a lot of who had control. And so I think it was opaque by design by powerful people, whether that's attorneys or investors.

SPEAKER_02: And then we've had this 20 years of founders saying, well, what's actually in these documents and what is a liquidation preference?

SPEAKER_164: And how do we actually vote for members and it's becoming more and more standardized. And then software is the ultimate standardization because it's code and you can just look at

SPEAKER_218: the code and say, well, when you execute this code, what happens as opposed to, okay, let's get in a, and every time you talk to your attorney, Molly, they're just like, yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya: So the case law says this, but nobody's ever actually tested the case law.

SPEAKER_263: The last time was 1827, you know, you're like to be fair.

SPEAKER_266: That'll still be the case when you have digitized that though, right?

SPEAKER_01: Like, well, I mean, it's not like you, I mean, it sounds like on some level, what you're creating is a totally new database of corporate structure information and the corporate structure itself is different in the sense that it's a DAO, but you still have a hierarchy. You still have funding mechanisms. Like, will there be a board? Like, are you, to what extent are you creating something entirely new that's never existed before versus digitizing a lot of the crappy stuff that we have to do now?

SPEAKER_268: So I'm going to, I'm going to merge what you, you and Jason said together. So nothing we're doing here is new under the sun, like shareholder equity exists, like

SPEAKER_50: governance and corporations exist, but they exist in a culture at a scale that is not reinforced by transparent information, right? So if I go try to look up a K1, I really need to know how to read a K1 and be like, okay, I'm a shareholder. How do I participate? Whereas a DAO participation is natively baked at, like you hold a token, you can access the DAO by authenticating your tokens. You can see all the information, see what's available to vote.

SPEAKER_232: And so like Jason was saying, I actually hadn't thought about this. We spent 20 years making startups much more normalized to make deals happen faster and to actually reduce the, the need for trust, right? It's not that it is absent of verification or trust, but the fact is like, we are okay

SPEAKER_50: taking these risks because they're pretty standardized risks at this point. The same needs to hold true for DAOs to become easier. If you join a DAO and you have no idea what's going on because everything's new, that's a detriment to our ability to actually grow this ecosystem. And so I need to make sure that things are standardized, that things are onboarded properly, that you understand these concepts. And that's a lot of the work of, I think, a first generation piece of software like we are doing right now.

SPEAKER_59: And just to build on that, if you're successful and you can do this in a jurisdiction, you could make it molly.

SPEAKER_02: So a person could a la carte, create their own sort of structure of what they think a company should be. So I could say, you know what, we're never going to have a board of directors.

SPEAKER_61: That's antiquated. We're just going to have voting. And the way we're going to have voting is the founders get, you know, this, a third of the votes, and then the token holders get this many votes. And these are the things that can be voted on. These are the things that can't be voted on. And once that's codified, you're kind of like making your own version of the Delaware LLC. And you might say, Molly, well, no, no, we're going to have a board. It's going to be representative.

SPEAKER_59: Uh, and it's going to be based on, you know, the founders get two seats. There's going to be an independent that's voted and the two largest shareholders get a seat. So I'm going representative. And then somebody else will be like, you know what, we want to vote on every decision. So when we hire a new CTO, we're literally going to have a million shareholders each get one vote. And this one person who has 250,000 of the shares and paid for them, they have a lot of influence, but we're just going straight voting.

SPEAKER_281: So that's the sort of really fascinating part about this is it could be a la carte. Yeah. And I wonder like, oh, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_164: Well, no, I, and if you do it in the right jurisdiction, Molly, then it doesn't apply to

SPEAKER_59: the US jurisdiction. And then it would just be, well, can amer, are Americans allowed to invest in this and through what vehicles or whatever, but you could see is not Delaware's lock on corporate

SPEAKER_61: formation is not locked. You could see young people, right? Just because people are also moving out of Silicon Valley in the United States.

SPEAKER_01: Although people who are moving back to you though, and say, how long is it going to be before I bring a company like that to one of our investment meetings? And you say, we can invest in them because that question, are you incorporated in Delaware? Yeah. Is like, let me tell you what's kind of us are doing.

SPEAKER_289: Yeah. Like investors are asking what, where your entity is based or if you're a C corp or not,

SPEAKER_171: they're asking about your token price. How much am I buying your tokens for? And what are those tokens actually do? Right? Those are the two paramount questions. If you're a crypto and buying into tokens, that's a very small subset of the venture market today, right? Because you're investing on the alternative assets class.

SPEAKER_232: But that movement of making things easier and transparent, like it is going to happen.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying is like, how, what do you think that starts to look? What, what, what is the tipping point? You know, is it like a giant exit? Is it like, at what point will it just become such FOMO that we'll be like, okay, fine.

SPEAKER_08: We, well, no, we already had that with tokens, I think. So then the question is when would venture investors or other folks and LPs feel secure in this?

SPEAKER_59: Non-crypto venture investors. Yes. Yeah, if you and some venture investors have turned into crypto investors. So I think when you feel that there, these systems are secure and you've seen enough of them, uh, not have issues and have positive outcomes.

SPEAKER_02: So I, I, a long way of saying track record. So some people will do it. Some people will bet just on, Hey, how many tokens are there? How many more can you release? You know, what's, how, what's the volume like, and they're just making this purely, you know, uh, market based decision. They're not looking at the legality of it at all.

SPEAKER_164: But I do think that these could be so tight. That these could be more trustworthy than Delaware, which would be really wild.

SPEAKER_169: And I, I'll give you the alternative path of getting there. I agree with you because these are so much simpler. They're in software.

SPEAKER_171: It's so much easier for us to understand the way orange fund makes an investment is that we actually invest in the C Corp equity, pure equity. We're, we're investing in a normal thing. And then we have a, actually a, an agreement of all across all the investors that says, if, and when this company issues tokens to its investors, we will be treated prorata at that time.

SPEAKER_298: That's it. Got it.

SPEAKER_50: Super simple. Right? Cause if the company basically hollows itself out, turns it into a tokenized organization where all the values go into our tokens and not the equity, the investors are entitled to that.

SPEAKER_171: Right?

SPEAKER_301: But that's an is so you buy 10% of the company for a million dollars, $10 million valuation.

SPEAKER_108: If they do a token, you get 10% right now, a lot of founders just leave that up to, yeah, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but you put it in like a little side.

SPEAKER_304: Yeah, because tokens, there's actually really two types of tokens.

SPEAKER_305: Tokens get issued to insiders, like investors and founders, and then tokens that are actually distributed to the community or is used for like treasury reasons and things like that. And so we take the smaller of the, we take the investor part and say, treat us the same, right?

SPEAKER_50: We're the same class of stock.

SPEAKER_302: We don't take make claims on the total network because that economically doesn't work for most tokenized startups.

SPEAKER_25: It's super fascinating. I mean, I think I would be willing if somebody built the software tightly, Molly, um, I would be willing to personally make some angel investments in this space, you know, 10, 25 K investments just to learn. And I think that a lot of people who have participated in crypto have kind of taken that same approach is, Hey, this is like learning money, but you did see, you know, people like, uh, interest in heart, which raised billions of dollars, uh, to deploy into these companies and take the risk.

SPEAKER_06: So take it for me, hiring developers is really hard. And so many startups struggle to hire fast enough to keep up with demand.

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SPEAKER_95: I'm not. Yeah, I hope that I'm not coming off as the skeptic.

SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sincerely trying to understand it and understand at what point it, you know, what does it? What are the metrics? What are the markers that say this is trustworthy and is security really it? Because nothing is 100% secure. And do when you say security, Jason, do you mean like the thing where like some now members just come and take over?

SPEAKER_61: Yeah, people are standing with money is the worst case scenario. People screwing over the investors is the worst case scenario. So what happened in venture over the history of it was the introduction of what we call downside protections. So what are downside protections? So what are downside protections?

SPEAKER_02: The concept of preferred shares? Obviously, our shares are worth more than these other shares. We got our money out first. Another one is control. The board. Another one is major transactions we get to approve. So you want to raise more money, you want to change of control, or you want to sell more than X percent of the company, we have to approve that transaction. So change of control provisions were added to the legal documents. So the interesting thing about this and why I am actually of all the web three nonsense.

SPEAKER_59: Number one, I love dow's number two, I'm really fascinated by nfts when they're like membership and have smart contracts and why? I think it's because I think they'll actually be better than what exists today.

SPEAKER_61: In both of those cases, I see those as products that improve upon the status quo. And the all those protect what they call the collection of protective provisions for investors. Those could be in software and be even more protective. Yes. So the CEO cannot withdraw money from the bank account to spend it unless it's approved by whatever the governance is a vote or whatever. Or they can spend up to 1% of what's in the Treasury without a vote. If they get to 5% they need this much voting salaries can't go above this Oracle. So imagine this Molly. If you said we we know that this company Silicon Valley banks, you know, or whoever's structure of what each position pays. We could say the founders can spend up to 75% of that number without any any they could do 75% of that number.

SPEAKER_318: But if they go above 75% of that number, they need to get permission. So you can actually have an Oracle feeding that data in. Go ahead, Ben.

SPEAKER_268: Jason is perfectly right. We can go even further.

SPEAKER_50: Let's say you don't want some single individual who has a vested interest in a company, let's say a founder to not have overly high control. Let's say you want to cap that person's voting power at like 25% of the of the Dow. You can have dynamic vesting. In other words, unless the doubt unless the doubt has given away more tokens, so that 75% of it's in circulation. We're not going to actually vest this person any more than this percentage. Like you can do things in software. They could never have imagined using a legal contract.

SPEAKER_271: Right.

SPEAKER_171: So you can say we are in a power sharing agreement, hands down. And this is always going to stay that way. It's written into the contract.

SPEAKER_01: So I will say as the voice of the notice, this is working corporate oversight via blockchain sounds like a legit use case to me, says Peter. I mean, and that's really the question, right? Is like, what are we trying to achieve? That's better than transparency we have and transparency alone is a great answer.

SPEAKER_59: Transparency and accountability because you can do weird things on a board. I mean, I have been on boards. I told you the stories and I wrote in my book. I'll just give one example of and I'm going to make this a collection of examples in one. So this is not this is not one company. This is a composite of a couple of bad behavior. Imagine a founder shows up and says, you know what? And I got three of the five board seats. I deserve more equity.

SPEAKER_02: I'm going to expand the pool. I'm going to give myself more equity. You know what? I feel like the 409 a is too high. I'm going to shop it to three different friends and I'm going to find somebody friendly to run it down. I'll buy more shares of the company in common at that low 409 a and I'll just, you know, not tell anybody or I'll take this. This venture fund is going to give me 50% more ownership in the company if I accept their deal terms. Therefore, I'll just accept it. Like these things happen in venture and then you're left as a VC Molly and Ben, as you know, to sue a founder, which has happened exactly like three times in the last 10 years.

SPEAKER_327: Yeah. And it's a it's a big action.

SPEAKER_50: Big action. Yeah. Also, I want to point out a third thing here, which is this is not just about corporate governance. There's an opportunity here for us to actually build an organization that is native to being a network. It is not about employees. It is not just about gig workers. It is about the fact that we all belong into a network and saying, hey, if I have if I belong to an artist network and I want to pass deals and business to other fellow artists, how do I get credit for that right now? It's entirely social and that's fine if you want to. But there could also be a monetary way where they're earned tokens towards governing this organization more because they're contributing more. And so there's a fairness to the amount of like inputs and outputs that you can actually provide an organization that dows and tokenization enable. Hmm. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_59: Yep. So you're actually building the software. That's what you'll see at join origami.com. Correct?

SPEAKER_91: That's right. Yeah. So we're launching other large scale dows. So we specialize in dows with like more than 100 members.

SPEAKER_59: Flamingo is the other platform, right? That's who you're like contemporary is flamingo down.

SPEAKER_232: Flamingo goes there. They're an actual doubt.

SPEAKER_50: They do some development work, but they're not a doubt framework. And so there's a doubt for me called Moloch, which is everybody has to be an investor member. And that's capped at about 100 people. What is that?

SPEAKER_84: So this is about it.

SPEAKER_50: Moloch. Moloch. Moloch.

SPEAKER_340: Moloch. I've never heard of that. It's a type of framework.

SPEAKER_171: They're different frameworks. That's the different ways of setting up downs. And so Moloch is like everybody's equal. And it's usually a direct democracy. And so we are.

SPEAKER_342: Moloch is like a demon.

SPEAKER_343: Right? Am I remembering that correctly? Hold on. I'm gonna look it up. Off topic. It's off topic.

SPEAKER_36: Sorry. I'm always like, I just feel like the name sends a signal. And I want to know what that is.

SPEAKER_347: Yeah. Crypto has random names. It's actually kind of fun. It's very artistic.

SPEAKER_289: Yeah. Good times. And origami is like an enterprise framework, right? That actually has like a legal structure. It's not represented democracy, whereas Moloch's direct. And so there's different ways of thinking about that.

SPEAKER_59: What are the different philosophies at this point? And is one more most successful than the others?

SPEAKER_91: Yeah. Moloch's been around a lot longer. So they remember the Dow 2016. It was like hacked. It was like a big deal. Ethereum forked because of that. That was a Moloch framework, essentially.

SPEAKER_50: And basically it says, if I don't like what the Dow is doing, what the investment is, I can actually take my money, pull it out and go home.

SPEAKER_69: Oh, like SPAC. Yeah. Basically like SPAC.

SPEAKER_164: Yeah, no, but before the SPAC de-SPACs, you have the chance to redeem whatever you were going to invest in. That makes sense. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_353: I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, here we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_69: And again, the legal cap is 99 members because it's an investment club. Right. So it's just you and your friends coming together. So I've actually been part of one of these and it's, it's fun in a different way. Like you can buy NFTs with it.

SPEAKER_356: You can do some investment with it, but you can't really scale the organization.

SPEAKER_62: Cause you're limited by the LLC of Delaware 99.

SPEAKER_256: Yeah. Yeah. So it's an investment club and it has to be accredited investors and all that kind of stuff. Basically. That's where this gets really interesting is if you could have non accredited investors involved in this, but you can't do that in the United States. And this is where the United States, I fear is going to fall massively behind another country. And we need to do some work here and have a discussion about, do we want to give Switzerland or Singapore or whatever island chain that, you know, is aggressive.

SPEAKER_359: Run away with us.

SPEAKER_02: Do we want them to run away with this?

SPEAKER_362: Like this, if this becomes a standard and then Americans don't get to participate in the formation of the next Airbnb or Uber. Yeah.

SPEAKER_268: That's going to suck. We forget that we're, we're roughly economically speaking in crypto about half the globe.

SPEAKER_50: So we're at a tipping point in which the other half, the majority may be outside the United States. And so we're just not going to see those companies. We're not going to see those technologies. Like we have reached that point in which we are no longer the dominant force in the room.

SPEAKER_171: And so we need to behave like it in crypto. You mean in crypto, we need to start acting like we are not the dominant player anymore.

SPEAKER_01: This is, I mean, I will say that's part of why we need to be having these conversations and understand this because it's really new and it look, it is still really complicated. Like that all might be true, but the idea that we could just sort of march on into it when, when, when the vast majority of people still don't just fundamentally do not understand. And you're saying there's, you know, there's not a legal mechanism for distribution. Like it's early enough that I would argue we could pull a little bit of an apple here and like wait for Android to figure out all the kinks and then come in and do it perfectly. I'm just saying that's an option.

SPEAKER_370: I, I, that's not an option for me, right? I gotta keep charging ahead. It's not an option for you.

SPEAKER_01: Be Android. Thank you. Be Android.

SPEAKER_253: And just to hibernate for like a few years and then just pounce. Exactly. That's usually how startups work.

SPEAKER_01: Ben, thank you. This has gone a long way, uh, toward helping us understand. I hope.

SPEAKER_372: Good to see you guys. And it's great to see you as well.

SPEAKER_256: Good luck with it. And, uh, we are really excited. I, I wish I could just be in the discord or using discord for the community. Uh, we are.

SPEAKER_374: Yeah.

SPEAKER_256: Well, some used to, yeah, mostly God, it would just be like so cool to be able to just hang out in there and watch it. Like to me that the community aspect is just the most fun part.

SPEAKER_375: So I'm sure you could find a way. I'm sure you could find a way. I'm thinking about doing it.

SPEAKER_59: Jump on it. Yeah. I, I, there is, I'm thinking, you know, I'm raising our fourth fund publicly, which is like, you know, doing this 506. Yeah. Which I'm literally getting off of this and in seven minutes going to pitch hundreds of people. I know.

SPEAKER_379: I'm like, what do you have to do right now? Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_59: Anyway, I can do this. Uh, when you, that's, this is like a step in the direction of like, hey, letting more people see. Now it's only accredited in QPs. So it's, it's still a narrow group. But I do think the next step.

SPEAKER_281: But the more they see it, the more pressure there will be, right? Like, that's why.

SPEAKER_381: We're not investors. We're not accredited on QPs. Yes. That's what the skill really comes in. That's the interesting part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_243: That's more about that. All right. All right. We'll see you next time everybody.

SPEAKER_04: Bye bye. Thanks Ben. Thanks Ben Harris is here. You can follow him on Twitter, twitter.com slash L O N as he got on early. Lana is a writer for screen. Thanks to you. Thanks to you.

SPEAKER_385: Yes. I told you to get on quickly.

SPEAKER_387: You came back from South by Southwest and you got in front of everybody at Mahalo.com. This is true. And you were like, there's a new thing.

SPEAKER_388: You got everybody at South by Southwest is on it. Go there now and grab your name. Even if you don't think you're going to use it. That was your, that was your advice on the day. But one of a very wise thing to say.

SPEAKER_397: Uh, so anyway, yes, I got, uh, Jason, uh, he, uh, does the podcast binge boys.

SPEAKER_06: You can go take a look for, he writes inside streaming, uh, and he is here every Thursday for this week in streaming, our little section here, where we talk about what's going on in the world of streaming from a business content and artistic perspective.

SPEAKER_02: Molly, what, what do we have in the news here to chop up with, with our expert lawn?

SPEAKER_54: Football, football, football. Like you can, we say now with the debut of Thursday night football and Amazon prime, that streaming

SPEAKER_01: has really arrived. I'm not saying it has not been a huge part of obviously our economic landscape. It's changed just about everything in terms of the entertainment industry. But I feel like once you roll in football and you do giant freaking numbers on the back of America's favorite sport. Hmm. You've arrived. Right.

SPEAKER_404: Is that fair, Lon? Or is it overstating?

SPEAKER_388: I mean, for, for a long time now, for years now, we've been sort of saying the last things to arrive, like the things streaming still needs to figure out. And then it's totally done for broadcast are sports award shows and like live reality TV. Like those are the things broadcast still does well that streaming can't do. Would you just be in there?

SPEAKER_407: Just this week. CNN plus.

SPEAKER_387: I mean, I feel like news already, like every one of these news stations already has a streaming counterpart. If you want to watch your NBC news on NBC news.

SPEAKER_388: Now you've been able to do that for years. Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_412: News doesn't fall into there because it's not. I mean, I feel like it was. It doesn't draw that many people.

SPEAKER_414: Right. Whereas these, these things. And then just this week, if you think about it, we got the Emmys that you could watch on Peacock streaming live.

SPEAKER_417: Right. We got Thursday night football's big debut on Amazon and dancing with the stars. Now is a Disney plus show live every week. It used to be ABC was the only place to see it. Now Disney plus is the only way to see it. And it's the same exact format. It's just on Disney plus now. So I feel like that's it. Like streaming.

SPEAKER_387: They've conquered all the goals. It's basically it for broadcast TV. As far as I can tell. All right. Yeah. I think so.

SPEAKER_19: No pun intended. I want to call an audible here. No pun intended.

SPEAKER_420: Since I heard the word Emmys. It was the Emmys. This is a message to the people who run award shows.

SPEAKER_424: You suck.

SPEAKER_318: We tune into award shows because we are super fans of the artists who make the shows, whether it's the Oscars, the Globes, whatever. There is a formula we want.

SPEAKER_61: The funniest, most irreverent comedian doing their stick. This includes Ricky Gervais at the top of his game. Uh, and Chris Rock, uh, yada, yada. Tina Fey was great with, uh, Amy Poehler. That's what we want. A comedian who can take, uh, the piss out of the, uh, celebrities.

SPEAKER_318: That's always fun. And then let the celebrities give a speech. Let them talk for as long as they want. Or if there's a major category and then we don't need anything else. We don't need singing numbers. We don't need skits. We don't need, uh, anything else. Just a joke monologue. And then let the person give their speech.

SPEAKER_08: This is a message from people who consume award show or used to consume award shows religiously and who now can't stand watching them. The end.

SPEAKER_428: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I, well, I, I keep, I keep waiting.

SPEAKER_387: It feels like every year the pendulum is going to swing back. And the person who comes in to take over these shows is going to be like return to glamor old Hollywood.

SPEAKER_388: Let's make it like it used to be in the seventies and eighties and nineties. Uh, that everyone's nostalgic for. And then it never happens. They always have a new idea. Like, Oh, we're going to be in a train station this year.

SPEAKER_387: So maybe it's weird. It's weird. This is if they figured it out in like the forties, just go back and do what they used to do in the Bob Hope era.

SPEAKER_54: Do that. I mean, to go back to where we started.

SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, it's like, can streaming streaming might just end up sort of displacing broadcast, but then being the same thing. And that's not exactly what we wanted. So that would be kind of a bummer. Like just re streaming to, you know, like we are, uh, the Emmys to Peacock in the same old way. It's sort of like streaming. We just, I think we keep circling around the fact that streaming is now TV in all the ways. Yeah. Including we sort of wish that somebody would just bundle it together and I could just pay one price for all those channels.

SPEAKER_428: Sure.

SPEAKER_388: I mean, that's a, that's a refrain you see constantly on social media is that streaming has just become it. We wanted to get away from cable and the idea that I had to pay all this money for all these services and channels and whatever for four shows that I wanted to watch. And now, yeah, if you wanted to watch severance and the boys and rings of power and stranger things and you got to get five services, you maybe don't need it in that way. It is similar. The bundles are coming.

SPEAKER_440: I mean, the bundles are coming. The bundles are coming. The bundles are coming.

SPEAKER_54: The NATO will happen. We'll NATO this. I don't think we'll be forced into it. Like as long as we can still have a la carte.

SPEAKER_388: And, and we can, and I think that's what, I think people get a little greedy.

SPEAKER_387: And I think that you could, you could pick any one of these services with a few exceptions, but most of them and just have that one. And there would be plenty to watch.

SPEAKER_388: There would always be new things, especially one like Netflix or Hulu, where they're adding things. Where they're adding things constantly. I don't really think you need, people want to have all of them because there's always hot new shows on new ones that you want to see, but that's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_445: This is the classic first world problems.

Jason Calacanis: And you have the freedom, which people don't realize. You have the freedom to be like, I'm just going to subscribe to this for a month while this one show is on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_54: And then cancel. That's magical.

SPEAKER_61: You have so much power now. Yeah. And we are so entitled. Everybody shut up. True. And enjoy the bounty.

SPEAKER_452: That's really true.

SPEAKER_318: Don't ruin it. We're getting, they're losing money on these services. Let them lose money. And if you can't afford $125 for everything, then shut up, buy $60 for almost everything. Every three months, cancel, pause, and then do the other three.

SPEAKER_424: You greedy, you know, loathsome. You're about to go full Kim K.

SPEAKER_00: You're going to be like, Oh, you can't afford all the streaming services.

SPEAKER_457: Work harder. Work harder.

SPEAKER_458: No. Well, just do two more DoorDash deliveries and you'll have everything.

SPEAKER_388: As much as I hate to just like blatantly promote Amazon, like if you got no other streaming services, just prime, you get not only a pretty great streaming service with a lot of stuff to watch, but a heck of a shipping deal.

SPEAKER_465: You know, like that's, that's just fun.

SPEAKER_466: And that's, you could just have that one and be fine. We're so spoiled.

SPEAKER_54: We're spoiled. Right. Right. And then you would complain about how stuff didn't come. I want to know what the NFL did. For three days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_61: All I care about is numbers. Cause I might, I might be making J trades. I need numbers.

SPEAKER_470: I mean, honestly, Amazon.

SPEAKER_54: Okay. Here's the deal. Amazon reportedly signed an 11 year, $11 billion deal.

SPEAKER_01: So a billion dollars a year for the exclusive rights to one night of football.

SPEAKER_472: They get 15 games per season for that billion dollars.

SPEAKER_473: Wait, 15 games per season. 15 Thursday night football games. Let's do that quick math there.

SPEAKER_475: What does each game cost at a billion dollars a year? 70 million. 70 million.

SPEAKER_476: About 7, 68 million. Yeah.

SPEAKER_54: Per game. Per game. So the deal started this season and to watch the games viewers needed to either.

SPEAKER_480: Bezos gets to watch the games with Goodell. He gets to watch the games with the NFL commissioner. So you saw those memes going around, right?

SPEAKER_482: Of, of Bezos sitting next to Goodell watching the games. Yeah. It's a two and a half hour game.

SPEAKER_04: It's amazing. So I guess that means they're spending 500,000 per minute on a game. Okay. Keep going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_486: Sounds, seems legit. Reasonable. If you watch the game viewers either needed a prime subscription or they needed to go to

SPEAKER_01: a bar because Amazon and direct TV announced this partnership where Thursday night football would actually be included with its business package, which is distributed to 300,000 bars, restaurants, hotels, casinos, and sports books. Now.

SPEAKER_474: They're also working with Nielsen to measure that audience.

SPEAKER_388: So that's like, that's working in two ways for them. Oh. Cause they, they hired Nielsen. It's the first time a streaming platform has ever done this. They've hired Nielsen as a third party to look at all their backend, look at all their numbers and assemble these reports of like, how many total eyeballs are on these Thursday night football streams. Interesting. And part of what they're measuring is that hotel. How many people are watching in bars? How many people are watching in this hotel, that hotel.

SPEAKER_498: I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing better than.

SPEAKER_388: So they can include those in their numbers now.

SPEAKER_436: I think in my opinion, there's nothing better than sitting at a hotel bar, like watching sports. It's just delightful. You're on a trip.

SPEAKER_12: No one needs you. You don't have to take care of anybody. You're just having your martini. So great. No kids. Spoken like a true parent.

SPEAKER_01: No kids. In the bar downstairs.

SPEAKER_505: Cheat well drinks.

SPEAKER_01: Just literally making friends, watching sports. It is the greatest. I love hotels.

SPEAKER_505: It's literally like. Jason, can I go on a trip? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: No. Work.

SPEAKER_08: Work harder. In related news, Amazon is starting a new chain of bars. It's going to be called Amazon prime rib. So you're going to be able to go there and get your prime rib and beers. What is your name? This is brilliant.

SPEAKER_01: Okay. During that. Wait, let's talk about results here, right? Cause this is obviously a big investment. Anything could have happened. And the moment there, this last week, a week ago today was Thursday night football week one and Amazon saw quote, the biggest three hours for us prime signups. Sure. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_516: Well, that includes, they're including black Friday, cyber Monday, prime day.

SPEAKER_387: That means it beat, it beat every promotion they've ever done for prime.

SPEAKER_517: That's sick. In one three hour period. Cause you know what America loves? Football. Football.

SPEAKER_388: You know what this is? It's like, how do I watch this game? Like it definitely drove a lot of people who had never before even considered signing up for Amazon prime to prime, which is a very valuable. If you could grab those people who didn't even know about it. That's a win.

SPEAKER_06: Remember I talked about monetized marketing for the last 20 years. Um, if you were to put this, the billion dollars a year, let's say one third of it comes back

SPEAKER_64: in new Amazon prime supporters, a very small number, like 2 million. Right?

SPEAKER_525: 2 million times 150 years, 300 million. So let's just say they get back roughly a third in actual.

SPEAKER_09: Then if they were to the advertising value of this, all the people they reach was worth another couple of hundred million a year, you know, 20 million a game. I don't know what 10 million a game, maybe 15 games. Okay. They're halfway there. And the other half, you know, they lose still worth it. Still worth it as a marketing experiment. It costs them half the amount they thought it did. Um, and now they have the date on this when they do their next 10 year deal with the NBA or other leagues, or they buy leagues or they start buying teams. Now they have all the data. Exactly. And this is part of when you're an executive. When we look at this, it doesn't make sense to us, right? We can't pencil it out in a Google sheet.

SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you how executives pencil this out in a board meeting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 300 million of the billion that goes to prime. We would have spent 200 million on marketing. Take that from the marketing team's TV budget. Great. 500. Now we're 500 million the whole. All right. Let's see what happens. If we lose 5 billion, we got, you know, we, we make that in whatever number of days. Uh, great. Yeah. What do we do next with this information and data?

SPEAKER_04: We can negotiate with Goodell and say, you know what? We're not going to pay 11 billion again for Thursday. We'll pay 750, but we also want one more game on Tuesday or whatever. And then they'll just have data to do that. Brilliant move.

SPEAKER_301: This will have a bigger impact than the Lord of the Rings experiment. So look at those both as billion dollar experiments. Way bigger. This is a, this will do way bigger.

SPEAKER_537: Way bigger.

SPEAKER_01: I was just, um, looking up the cost of NFL Sunday ticket because of course, every week,

SPEAKER_266: uh, as a Bay area resident, you're like, why do I have these stupid football games instead of the games I wanted to watch? And NFL Sunday ticket historically has been the only way to get that. That costs $249 a year, 294. Sorry. And that's how you get every Sunday game that's out of market, or you can spend $10 per game. So 120 bucks per year. So that's $10 less than prime to get at least the Thursday night football. And then Nick pointed out that, uh, Sunday ticket, the exclusivity expires this year.

SPEAKER_538: So imagine if Amazon behind the scenes, that's, that's what I was gonna say is this is already happening. They're all fighting over who's going to get Sunday ticket on there as an add on to their platform.

SPEAKER_540: I mean, can you imagine if Amazon bought Sunday ticket and I could get every game from my freaking prime subscription?

SPEAKER_543: Yeah.

SPEAKER_387: It would be, it would be, think of that almost like an Amazon channels kind of deal. You would have Amazon prime video, and then you would add on NFL Sunday ticket.

SPEAKER_388: For 10 bucks. Access it through. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_550: And then you access it through your Amazon prime video account. I mean, dude, like how I get AMC plus right now.

SPEAKER_08: And then one of those users becomes a prime user. No, you have to. And then think about the merch. You have to.

SPEAKER_61: Think about the merch. You see all that merch up there on the top left is merch. This is what I talked about with Disney plus. Like Disney has a relationship. They have your credit card. Now Amazon has your credit card. You become a prime subscriber. You watch the Jets lose and embarrass themselves.

SPEAKER_08: Um, or the Eagles lose and embarrass themselves. Like one of those really horrible teams with terrible fan bases who buy a lot of jerseys. Apparently Amazon's horrible.

SPEAKER_559: They're already showing merch on the homepage. How dare you. But I'm just saying. I'm a Philadelphia native, sir. How dare you.

SPEAKER_09: I'm just saying. You know, let's say you're like a horrible human being who rules for the Jets or the Eagles. My entire family are hardcore Eagles fans.

SPEAKER_563: I know.

SPEAKER_564: Like don't bait Philadelphians. I'm just picking the worst fan bases in the world. They're very violent. That would be Eagles than Jets.

SPEAKER_566: And they're in the running for worst fan bases. Somebody's gonna leave a D battery on your doorstep. And you're gonna take those two fan bases.

SPEAKER_568: Oh man. One of which eats horse poop. It's the city of brotherly love, sir.

SPEAKER_570: They ate horse poop when they won. That's it.

SPEAKER_424: It tells you everything you need to know. He's gonna haunt your nightmares. Uh, so you take those Eagle fans and then you upsell them on your jerseys, but the jerseys are on Amazon.

SPEAKER_318: So these absolute savages who don't know how to use computers, the Eagles fans, you're now getting those Eagles fans to actually learn how to use a keyboard and type.

SPEAKER_575: Yeah.

SPEAKER_318: And they're nice stuff online. You're bringing those records. The jet fans who, you know, are just drinking vodka straight from a water bottle at a game. Now they buy games. Okay. That's it.

SPEAKER_54: I know we're trying to talk business over here and you're just like, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm busy baiting. I mean, this, this would be.

SPEAKER_01: If Amazon ended up partnering for NFL Sunday ticket, like this is all red. They've already had a massive victory. The NFL is just raking in money. The fact that the Amazon homepage exactly is festooned with merch right now. Merch that costs like 50 times what it should cost. And people are like, I don't care. Click. I'm pretty drunk. Like this is bananas. You want to know the power move?

SPEAKER_281: You know what the power move is?

SPEAKER_08: Google should get in on this. Google's got tons of money. They have no streaming services, but got that. They got YouTube. They should just make this part of YouTube. YouTube plus.

SPEAKER_585: In some ways YouTube is the biggest streaming service. Like people forget they don't include that with the others because it's not the high profile shows. But just in terms of. How should the NFL pick a partner?

SPEAKER_89: How should the NFL pick a partner? Yeah. You pick Amazon. You drive massive merch. You pick Google.

SPEAKER_09: You drive global reach on YouTube. You pick Apple. Also in the running for Sunday ticket, of course.

SPEAKER_590: I don't know what you get if you pick Apple, but I don't know what their advantage is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_413: Who would you pick? I mean, they would have to just get the money. Just cash. They all offer the same dollar amounts. Right. I mean, I guess with Apple, you've got the devices, you know?

SPEAKER_388: Like who knows what kinds of integration you could do with NFL plus Apple directly on everybody's device. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_255: Well, here's the problem. The Eagles fans don't, they would never be able to afford. They have iPhones.

SPEAKER_596: They have Android users. They don't, they're not sophisticated enough to use Apple products.

SPEAKER_433: They have iPhones. They have iPhones is not the spirited defense that you think it is. No. They're using flip phones. They're not cheap, man.

SPEAKER_585: They're not cheap, man. Come on. There's a little bit of, you know, cheese steak residue on there. You know, I don't think Apple wants to. They just got 4G. They're on 3G. I think they're barely doing flip phones.

SPEAKER_603: You can use a phone and hold a soft pretzel at the same time.

SPEAKER_605: Come on. So many D-butters getting whipped our way. Okay, let's move on. I want to talk House of Dragons. I don't want a spoiler alert in. The. House of the dragons.

SPEAKER_607: House of the dragons. House of the dragons.

SPEAKER_605: It's their sushi. Whatever. I call it dragons. House of dragons. House of dragons though. Let's talk about this.

SPEAKER_54: This is the greatest show on TV. Go. Dude. This show is killing this show. Nobody cares. It's the only show I look forward to right now.

SPEAKER_172: 29. They're up to 29 million weekly viewers. What?

SPEAKER_612: Yeah. They're, they're almost.

SPEAKER_387: It's insane. It was, it was around 40, 42 million per episode in the last season of game of thrones. And it's Pete.

SPEAKER_516: Like that was at the most game of thrones ever gotten. House of the dragons. Almost like more than halfway there already. It's the new football. Halfway through season one. Let's go.

SPEAKER_615: General Zodzloff. General Zodzloff. One of brothers train is underwater, but I'm going to buy more.

SPEAKER_617: This is a Casey Bloys victory, but, uh, but he's the head of HBO content.

SPEAKER_388: Uh, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, I, I, it's really surprising considering just a few months ago, there was so much cynicism around this whole franchise. The last series ended on this kind of sour note for people. The books aren't finished. Everybody was like, David Jones fever is over forever. Westeros is done. Nobody cares anymore. And all it took was five episodes to bring everybody back. And it's, and it's everybody's favorite thing again.

SPEAKER_103: And it's gonna, I mean, this just became the new Marvel.

SPEAKER_01: Like this is never gonna, we're never gonna have any other entertainment than football and some sort of game of Thrones spinoff. I would imagine.

SPEAKER_541: I mean, if you were on HBO executive right now, people are being very, very clear. I think about, about what they want.

SPEAKER_388: You know, they, they, they want, they want teens doing drugs. They want a lot of high school sex and they want. HBO understands what people want. Totally.

SPEAKER_528: Here's the HBO formula.

SPEAKER_318: Number one, you need a story, a plot that moves at a nice pace. Number two, lots of characters. Number three, you need actors that we don't know. Or maybe are vaguely familiar with, but that know how to act, who are great actual actors. That's your, that's your, that's your foundation. Now, what do you sprinkle on top of, of fast moving plot with great, uh, actors? Drugs. Drugs.

SPEAKER_629: Sex. Violence. Extreme violence. Stop. Stop. Whatever.

SPEAKER_605: I'm gonna start, you know, I'm gonna start watching it now. I've been reading the recaps and I'm totally riveted. Sopranos.

SPEAKER_09: What do you got? Incredible actors that we don't know. James Ganfini. James Ganfini. Who knew him?

SPEAKER_541: Uh, he was in Get Shorty. He was great in Get Shorty. Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_61: And he was, he was also in True Romance for five minutes and stole the show. Small roles. Small roles. Yeah. Small roles. Then you got extreme violence. Uh, okay. And then of course there's lots of drugs and sex going on. Let's go to industry. I just finished season two. Amazing show.

SPEAKER_318: I don't know anybody on the show, except for one guy who I remember from, uh,

SPEAKER_156: uh, no, I remember him from, uh, Rogue One.

SPEAKER_318: Sure. Okay. I don't know any of these other actors, but they're having sex. They're backstabbing each other.

SPEAKER_156: The plot changes every 17 minutes, drugs, sex. Awesome. There's no violence, but it's whatever. It's okay.

SPEAKER_640: Right. Well, you got the wire. You got boardwalk empire. Deadwood.

SPEAKER_156: The wire. They know what people want and they pay writers and they pay actors.

SPEAKER_318: And they know how to select those writers and actors.

SPEAKER_644: Why does every other network not understand this concept adult fair? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_387: I mean, there, there are some like AMC, I think does a, does a nice job. They did a good job. I agree.

SPEAKER_516: It does a great job. It has a lot of great original shows.

SPEAKER_388: If you're not watching reservation dogs on, uh, Hulu, by the way, which is an FX show. Incredible.

SPEAKER_585: One of the best shows on TV right now. I do. I love that.

SPEAKER_266: I do have like a very, very soft spot for FX because the shows are super adulty. And also they rerun all the trash movies that I love.

SPEAKER_04: Anyway, that's my little, uh, rant on HBO and how awesome they are.

SPEAKER_650: This show game, uh, game, uh, the, the house of the dragon. There you go. Dragon. The dragon.

SPEAKER_651: Killing it.

SPEAKER_417: I will say it is, it is still gross. It is still like creepy and weird.

SPEAKER_388: It is still super violent, but it is less of all of those things than game of thrones.

SPEAKER_655: I do, I do believe that they did make a concerted effort to tone. It's still there. It's still there. It's toned down. It's still there.

SPEAKER_215: I was about to say there's like a little more incest, but there's kind of not. Cause the game of thrones was literally brother and sister.

SPEAKER_657: Cersei and Jaime Lannister were a main plot line. Brother and sister. And at least this is like cousins.

SPEAKER_54: I mean, it's bad in both cases. It's like 10% less of everything.

SPEAKER_404: They kept it recognizably weird George RR Martin stuff.

SPEAKER_388: Right. But they, they have made a conscious effort. I think to, it's less of a focus on those elements and more of a character focus and the

SPEAKER_661: political machinations and, and, and battles.

SPEAKER_01: And then we all know war is coming. And so you kind of can't, I mean, honestly, like I've been doing my usual game of thrones thing where, which is like, I'm too much of a sort of a weird chicken to watch it. I read the recaps every week. You'll be back in. I'm as of, as of episode six, I think I'm going to be in. Cause it's going to make the leap ahead in time. And then you can, I'm just like, fine. They've been leaping.

SPEAKER_388: The last episode with the, the young cast. So we're going to get, uh, we're going to get the older versions of those two.

SPEAKER_541: Alicent Hightower and Targaryen. And we're going to, they're going to jump in age in the next step.

SPEAKER_62: Wait, wait, but Damon and Princess Rhaenyra are not going to jump in age. Are they?

SPEAKER_387: No, Princess Rhaenyra. Princess Rhaenyra is. We're switching actors in the next episode. Millie Alcock, who played Princess Rhaenyra in the first five episodes. What? She's done. She's done. What?

SPEAKER_627: Don't you even read the internet, bro? Yeah. No, I try not to. Wait a second. I was about to say that the two greatest.

SPEAKER_675: That was her, that was her farewell episode. She's over. They're not getting rid of Matt Smith too, are they, Damon? No, Matt Smith is going to stay.

SPEAKER_656: The only other, the only other character, Alicent Hightower, her friend, who's now the queen. She's gone.

SPEAKER_388: That was her last episode as well. And Olivia Cooke, who you would reckon, I'm trying to think of what you'd know her from. She's been in a lot of other stuff. I know Olivia Cooke. Yeah. Ready Player One. The characters are not going anywhere. Ready Player One, exactly. She's the new Alicent Hightower starting this next week.

SPEAKER_01: So the characters still exist, just we're going forward in time. So they have to be grown up.

SPEAKER_587: They can't get rid of Millie Alcock. No. It's done.

SPEAKER_388: They're still the queen and the princess. Those characters, we're just going to see older versions of them because we're jumping ahead like five or six years. My guess as well is, I know we're all very attached to Patty Considine as Prince Viserys, but considering the state of, I'm assuming it's leprosy, whatever he has.

SPEAKER_408: Uh, I don't, I don't know. His arm's not looking good to him. I don't think he's still around.

SPEAKER_417: I think we're going to jump ahead to a time when he's already. Wow.

SPEAKER_385: I don't know what I'm doing with this. I could have, I wanted the whole season. I feel terrible actually.

SPEAKER_301: I think Millie Alcock is the greatest character in game. It's like top five character in Game of Thrones for me. It's like Maisie Williams level.

SPEAKER_417: I'm blanking on the name Emma something, uh, who's taking over Emma Darcy. Uh, maybe she'll be great. You know, she's taking over.

SPEAKER_690: It's the same character.

SPEAKER_343: I feel like if I don't have the emotional bandwidth for the show, Jason didn't have the emotional bandwidth for this news. I feel terrible. You look dedicated. Amy crushed Emma Darcy was born in 1990 era.

SPEAKER_694: She was born in 1992. Yeah.

SPEAKER_697: Millie was born when 2000. It's an eight year difference. She's 22. Let the woman have the role.

SPEAKER_388: They, they wanted to, they wanted to really strongly reinforce that, that this change is like that.

SPEAKER_541: They wanted to reinforce the significance of this time jump to these characters. Okay.

SPEAKER_550: This was a, this was a purposeful thing that they did. But Matt Smith. Matt Smith is still Damon Targaryen for the whole show.

SPEAKER_702: Wait a second. Well, he's older. He's an older character. He's 92 before 92.

SPEAKER_550: Those two actresses are playing younger than their ages. I think because of the maturity of the role. She's playing.

SPEAKER_704: Millie is playing 18 and she's actually 22. This better be great.

SPEAKER_404: Right. This better be great or I'm, this could. I mean, Olivia Cooke is a terrific actress.

SPEAKER_480: I think it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be just bad. It was really good recently in slow horses on apple TV plus, which I've been recommending up and down. Uh, if you like, uh, if you like.

SPEAKER_709: I liked your industry recommendation. I just wanna shout out to industry. I think I'm gonna start watching industry.

SPEAKER_08: Industry is good. Yeah. Fantastic. And the second season was. People had a problem with the second season.

SPEAKER_04: It's like a lot of these second seasons where you gotta just like, let it breathe. They just had the finale. I think last week and it was fan. Tastic. I don't wanna do any spoilers, but okay.

SPEAKER_59: Fantastic. Highest rating. Uh, I enjoy industry as much as I enjoy house of dragons. Uh, absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_445: Really? I mean, it's euphoria plus like billions.

SPEAKER_388: Like if that sounds good to you, it's basically just like hitting, hitting that, that intersection.

SPEAKER_59: What did the Lord of the Rings, um, disaster? Cuz I, I have absolutely no desire. I don't know what night it's on. I, I have, I literally painfully watched the first two episodes of Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_62: It's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_189: Really? Why is it so good? I'm not interested in it right now.

SPEAKER_718: I love it. I love it. When does it get good? It's good. I mean, I think it was good all along.

SPEAKER_26: It's good.

SPEAKER_720: The first two were too slow for me, the episodes. I didn't bond with any characters. It's good. I love it.

SPEAKER_26: I mean, I gotta say like. There's a lot going on. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_436: But I watched the hell out of the terminal list. That was awesome.

David Friedberg: What is the, um, what is the, uh, for the, for the, for the Lord of the Rings? We don't know. They don't tell us. They don't tell us.

SPEAKER_517: They're not saying. They don't have to. They don't have to tell us.

SPEAKER_01: What other military fetish trash, like the terminal list do you have? When is there going to be a new Jack Ryan for God's sake? Like, come on. Interesting.

SPEAKER_387: There's news today. Chris Pratt was on a podcast today and has hinted around.

SPEAKER_417: Season two of the terminal list is a go.

SPEAKER_388: And they're figuring out everybody's deal right now behind the scenes. But there, there's been a lot of questions, a big question mark over. Will they get another season?

SPEAKER_436: Uh, apparently it's like, he didn't want to have to do so much work or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_387: Well, there's a bunch, apparently Jack Carr, the author of the book. There's like a bunch of books in that series.

SPEAKER_01: So like, I know I'm about to start reading them. I'm waking. I'm currently making my way through all the Gray Man books. I mean, I, this is literally like, I don't know what.

SPEAKER_733: All the Gray Man books. Wow. I'm just a dude. I'm just a dude.

SPEAKER_433: You like all the guy airport books. Yeah. I like guy airport books. Yeah. In both TV movies and actual audio books.

SPEAKER_387: Adam Schaefer in the, in the chat just made the same recommendation I was going to. Did you watch Reacher on Amazon? Oh yeah, of course. So good.

SPEAKER_414: So you've already said that.

SPEAKER_736: I love Reacher. Reacher was terrific.

SPEAKER_61: Reacher was terrific. Did you watch and, and, or came out last night, Wednesday? Yes.

SPEAKER_388: Well, technically if you stayed up like me, like an idiot until 2 AM, you could have watched it Tuesday night. But yes, technically Wednesday.

SPEAKER_596: I have to wait because I want to watch it with my daughters this weekend, which, you

SPEAKER_04: know, sometimes I'll be honest, I would watch Boba Fett or I would watch Boba Fett or

SPEAKER_25: the Mandalorian before them and then I'd watch it with them and tell them I didn't.

SPEAKER_174: And then they'd figure it out when I would click on Disney plus, they would see that I watched it already. They figured out how to do that. Like you watched it already. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_89: I was just checking it to make sure it was appropriate for kids. See that is not real. Was and or just give me a thumbs up or thumb down.

SPEAKER_742: I watched only the first one. Oh, I loved it. I thought it was great. I thought it was great. Two thumbs up. I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_744: I trust your judgment. Molly? Thumbs up or thumbs down?

SPEAKER_01: I am going to give it a thumbs, sort of like the first, the very first one moved a little slow for me, but that's kind of always the case, right? It's the first one. And, but it's such a different tone from Star Wars that you're used to that I'm, I'm

SPEAKER_436: very hopeful. Okay. I'm actually like, I'm excited to watch the next two.

SPEAKER_431: I like it.

SPEAKER_417: Yeah. Here's what I was gonna say. They're doing their Disney plus thing, which at Disney has this, this concept that it doesn't, we don't have to follow TV rules. Like they, the rules don't apply to us. Right. We don't have to obey structure. You're already in. You love Marvel. You love Pixar. You love star Wars. Who cares what the format is? We're just going to give it to you.

SPEAKER_387: However we want. Yeah. If you watch the first three episodes of and or together as a 90 minute movie. It works beautifully. Yeah. Perfectly structured.

SPEAKER_417: That's obviously how Tony Gilroy, the writer conceived of it and how it was written and how it was presented. And then Disney has been like, well, let's hack it up into three pieces and make it three episodes of TV because that's better for us in terms of releasing or whatever. And I don't know why you would do. I don't know why you would do that. It's very frustrating because then people come away with exactly what you two have come

SPEAKER_387: away with, which is, yeah, if you watch one, it would be like watching the first third of a movie and then being like, that wasn't a very good movie.

SPEAKER_44: And then being like, well, I guess there's more of them, but I have to go to bed now. And I could, I could feel that. Like when it ended, I was like, wait, it's just starting.

SPEAKER_388: I promise you, you will get to the end of episode three and be like, I want to see more of this. Totally.

SPEAKER_525: Can you do me a favor?

SPEAKER_04: I'm going to pay somebody a hundred bucks to do this. Could somebody take the three episodes of and or take out the beginning and, you know,

SPEAKER_525: whatever the interstitials are or whatever, put it on a Google drive for me. I'll send you a hundred bucks by Venmo, whatever you want.

SPEAKER_756: And just make it into a 90 minute movie for me to watch.

SPEAKER_538: I think this is slightly illegal, but sure.

SPEAKER_417: A lot of anime shows do this. And some British shows do this where they'll just have a movie. And it's like the pilot is just a movie. Like here's a 90 minute movie.

SPEAKER_387: And now here's like Battlestar Galactica did that. I think this should have just been that. Like, why not, why not just do that?

SPEAKER_388: I don't understand why they would force it in anyway, but as a three episode opener, I really enjoyed it. And exactly what you're saying, Molly.

SPEAKER_266: I think we should tell reboot. It's a full, I mean, yeah, the tone change is startling. We definitely should.

SPEAKER_766: This is like a PSA.

SPEAKER_402: I think we're doing the world a favor by saying like, don't think of it as the first episode.

SPEAKER_657: Cause if you think of it that way, you're going to be like, what just, what did I just have?

SPEAKER_402: If anything, I was like, well, at least it's really short.

SPEAKER_767: You got to watch them all three.

SPEAKER_387: And episode two ends on this really random.

SPEAKER_388: There's the scene of him like walking through a scrap yard. It's totally uneventful. And they just cut to black, like written by Tony Gilroy. Like, how is that the end of an episode? It's no, that's a force cut. That's a force cut. Right. It's like, it was a three episode thing. And then they just cut it up for no reason. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06: But when they did the, what was the first Marvel show they did? Oh, with the TV. Um, one, the first one on Disney plus WandaVision.

SPEAKER_773: Right.

SPEAKER_02: Well, I think with WandaVision, you're right. They're like, we're going to do something, you know, uh, unique here. Uh, that's not like regular television. We're going to challenge the audience with a different format with a different concept. I like it. I like the different concept. Um, here's the next piece. If somebody can take, uh, Obi-Wan and Andor when they're done and then cut them up and then use collateral from Clone Wars, Rogue One, and A New Hope, whatever flashbacks, whatever, stitch it together with some additional material.

SPEAKER_59: I'll give you 500 bucks to do that for me. If it's good.

SPEAKER_550: The thing about Andor that's interesting is that it's, it's not really trying to tie in very closely. It's sort of opening up this new little pocket of the world.

SPEAKER_388: I get it. It's the least referential of all the other shows.

SPEAKER_585: Like there's not a lot of like, callbacks to this guy, that guy, this planet, that planet.

SPEAKER_02: But if it's occurring in the timeline when other things could have been occurring. Yeah. Is there a possibility?

SPEAKER_780: Five years leading into Rogue One is the timeline we're in.

SPEAKER_301: So is there a possibility with it to have flash forwards or flashbacks to something that happened in the Clone Wars or something that happened?

SPEAKER_387: Yeah. And you could flash back to prequels or Clone Wars.

SPEAKER_550: And this is in the timeline of Rebels. Yes. That animated series Rebels.

SPEAKER_595: Yeah.

SPEAKER_720: So cut in some Rebels, right? Which they're going to do a live action version of Rebels, right?

SPEAKER_203: Uh, that's still in the rumored stage.

SPEAKER_04: I thought they cast the kid from Rebels. I forgot the kid's name in Rebels, but. No.

SPEAKER_783: Yeah. That Ezra Bridger, that character. Ezra Bridger is going to show up. In Ahsoka.

SPEAKER_388: He's going to be in the Ahsoka show, which is, I mean, that's what I was going to say. The Ahsoka show is basically going to be Dave Filoni doing a live action follow-up to the Clone Wars. Can't wait. So characters from the Clone Wars will be showing up in Ahsoka. I know it. So I amend my previous statement. Drawn is going to be in it.

SPEAKER_475: I mean, they're, they're opening up that whole part of the world.

SPEAKER_436: I have read some of those books. Those are good. I amend my previous statement in which I said.

SPEAKER_417: It's not exactly the same as the Timothy Zahn classic books, but they have taken Thrawn from the Timothy Zahn books and put him in. Yes.

SPEAKER_388: Thrawn is a great character.

SPEAKER_797: I love those books. But it's not, it's not an exact. But it's not the exact. It's not the exact Thrawn. Notice.

SPEAKER_01: I will say, I would like to amend my previous statement in which I said that the NFL and Game of Thrones spinoffs was going to be our only entertainment. Game of Thrones spinoffs, the NFL and Star Wars will be our only entertainment. Can't get away from that Star Wars. Well, this is it, man.

SPEAKER_802: It's peak TV. It's the golden era.

SPEAKER_803: Big TV. That's why we have you on week after week, man. It's not ending. It's not ending, folks. Every Thursday.

SPEAKER_805: Every time. It's just wild that Star Wars only exists on television now. No, no more films.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess the question we have to ask is, should this week in streaming become a spinoff show? At this point, because we get to 30 minutes of this and people want more. We keep saying we're going to do 30 minutes with Lon.

SPEAKER_54: And every time I just laugh, I'm like, no, we're not.

SPEAKER_809: I mean, I can go for another half hour at least right now. Easily.

SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if I've broken copyright law by putting a bounty out to make fan versions.

SPEAKER_587: I mean, listen, those things exist on the internet, those recuts or what have you. Yeah, but I just commissioned them. I just commissioned them. You did just commission them. Bob Iger or whoever's running Disney right now.

SPEAKER_281: Who's the guy running Disney? Bob Chapek. Chapek. Chapek. I don't know. I call him Chapek. Chapek. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: I'm not feeling him. I think they made a critical error with this price gouging. I just, that's my message for Chapek, like it's not worth it to have people feel bad about Disney.

SPEAKER_04: Disney's fan base. Cap the number of people at the parks, but don't extract money from them the way they're doing.

SPEAKER_281: It's not cool. It's unbelievable. It's horrible. You can't charge.

SPEAKER_825: They're generating a lot of ill will among their die hard fan base.

SPEAKER_09: Don't do that. Open another park. Here's an idea. That's for Chapek. Be bold. Find somewhere. That's equally distant between the two parks and open a third park in America. Be bold. Where would you put a park lawn? If you had a third park? Hmm. Would you put a third park in Texas? Vegas?

SPEAKER_413: Where would a third? Those places have a lot of competing destinations. What Disney does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_417: Like Chicago. Disney made Anaheim a destination.

SPEAKER_388: They made Orlando a destination. So I almost feel like you want to pick something like that, like a place with a lot of infrastructure. Mm-hmm. But that isn't already like the quad cities or something, you know? Like that, like Kansas City. Nashville too crowded. Right. Or like outside, like in between Nashville and like Nashville and Kansas City.

SPEAKER_682: Like how do you hit both of those markets?

SPEAKER_518: I mean, you could do Kansas City or even like Detroit. Detroit has like a beautiful airport and really cheap land.

SPEAKER_675: It has to be 70 degrees year round. Oh yeah. Kansas City is very hot in the city.

SPEAKER_02: It has to be Southern Hemisphere, but not so Southern Hemisphere. It hits 110. You think? It has to be 70, 80 degrees, 90 degrees max year round.

SPEAKER_550: I mean, there are popular theme parks in Texas where it gets really, like that's where Six Flags is from. Where it gets like crazy hot.

SPEAKER_840: And like it gets crazy hot in Texas over the summer. Colorado? Yeah. Get some snow. You could do New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01: It's just inaccessible part of the year. Revitalize, like revitalize Albuquerque. They already have that wonderful balloon festival. Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_846: I have such a soft spot for New Mexico. And you could have a Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. I was just going to say, and then you have this whole like Breaking Bad. Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_478: Yeah. The Gilligan Albuquerque verse. You could make it the adult.

SPEAKER_849: Ozarks have Jason Bateman. Ozarks land. Lake of the Ozarks. If you want to stop me, you're going to have to kill me. I love that clip.

SPEAKER_387: Honestly, I think that's a really good idea. Because they've already got all the tourist infrastructure. Lake of the Ozarks.

SPEAKER_857: Yeah, but if you did New Mexico, you could call it Dark Disney. And make it the adult experience.

SPEAKER_861: Yeah. When you say adult experience, why?

SPEAKER_12: That is not what I mean. No, I'm like how Andor is a Star Wars for grownups. Yeah. Let's leave Disney and adults. If you had a Disney that had like Breaking Bad and a Better Call Saul.

SPEAKER_864: You know what?

SPEAKER_02: It's already with the Disney and the alcohol. People are already starting fights at Disney. You don't have to have alcohol. And I think the reason they're starting fights at Disney is because it's too crowded and too expensive. Unaccompanied adult Disneyland. What's the max a ticket to Disney should cost during the week?

SPEAKER_442: I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_388: Yeah. Anytime it's over 70, 80 dollars is when I start to like, and I'm old. So maybe that's me. I remember when a ticket to Disneyland was like 40 bucks.

SPEAKER_417: And so part of it is just the old man in me that knows how much it's changed over the years. Just make it.

SPEAKER_387: I also remember when a season pass was 150 dollars. Yeah. I mean, we bought them. Remember one time.

SPEAKER_870: I think for Mahalo, I bought everybody a season pass one year, didn't I?

SPEAKER_656: Yeah. It was like, what? 200, 250 bucks at that point? Well, everybody was so glad.

SPEAKER_02: I was like, you know what I'll do for my team? Instead of giving them like, you know, whatever, I'll just, we're going to go to Disney anyway. I took over Disney for an offsite and I just gave everybody the season pass.

SPEAKER_387: And I get that that goes up over time, but it's gone up to such a ridiculous exponential degree. Shame on you.

SPEAKER_876: Now it's thousands of dollars for an annual pass. And that's crazy. Shame on Disney.

SPEAKER_01: One ticket for one day starts at $104.

SPEAKER_387: And to me, that's where you start to like, I mean, that is kind, and I don't mean to mythologize Walt Disney, the man.

SPEAKER_388: I don't, I don't think he's like a saint, like figure or whatever. Nobody's perfect. But, but his original vision, if you care about that at all, was that Disneyland would be widely accessible. Yes.

SPEAKER_387: That it wasn't just a playground for the rich. Completely. That it would be anybody could afford to bring their family, working people.

SPEAKER_417: Family of five, max cost $400.

SPEAKER_388: And I think that you do, you, it is important in some way for the company to still shepherd that vision.

SPEAKER_414: It, it's not, it's not Jurassic Park where you have a coupon day and otherwise it's only for the wealthiest. That's not what Disney is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_08: This has been great.

SPEAKER_884: We gotta go. Lon, you're awesome. Let's keep this discussion going. Unsolicited advice for Bob Chapek, Chapek, whatever.

SPEAKER_525: All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. It's been a great week up until Thursday. We still have more.

SPEAKER_00: We have Friday and Sunday, Molly. We do more, more, more.

SPEAKER_12: Jason's got a huge interview coming up tomorrow. Can't say who? Nope. Okay. Leaving you in suspense. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_04: We're going big on the interviews. It turns out there's a lot of people who want to come on the pod and we've been, you and I have been enjoying our time together, you know, doing the, uh, the MJ, the Molly and Jason best duo in podcasting. Uh, but we need to get some interviews in here because there's a lot of famous, important people.

SPEAKER_281: And tomorrow we have one of the top publicly traded CEOs in the world on the pod. I'll leave it at that. Good one.

SPEAKER_604: It's a good one. And okay, Boomer, because we never leave you.

SPEAKER_490: We never leave you hanging on Friday. We know how you like it.

SPEAKER_898: No, no, no, no. Of course. And then Sunday will be coming. We'll tell you about that later. Okay.

SPEAKER_490: Bye. See you then. Bye.